May 5, 2025 • 46 mins
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
04:43 The Importance of City Budgets
08:10 Los Angeles Budget Challenges and Deficits
14:08 The Fires on LA Budget
21:35 Civic Engagement and Community Leadership
30:20 Lessons From 40 Years of City Reform
36:27 The Future of Local Government
43:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Los Angeles is facing a billion-dollar budget shortfall. But this isn’t a blip. It’s a structural crisis with lessons that apply to cities far beyond LA.
In this episode, I sit down with Rick Cole, one of the most respected voices in local government. Over nearly four decades, he’s served as a mayor, city manager, and now Chief Deputy Controller for the City of LA. Few people have seen more from the inside.
We talk about why LA’s budget crisis was both predictable and preventable, what most people get wrong about how city budgets actually work, and why short-term thinking is dragging our institutions toward decline. Rick explains how the city missed a once-in-a-generation opportunity around the 2028 Olympics, why infrastructure neglect is catching up to us, and what it would take to turn things around.
At its core, this is a conversation about leadership, civic responsibility, and whether we’re willing to invest in the future. Rick doesn’t sugarcoat the problems, but he also hasn’t given up on what’s possible.
If you care about California’s future, local democracy, or how cities actually function, you'll enjoy this conversation. Subscribe at californiafuturesociety.com to get more conversations like this.
Keywords
local government, California, budget crisis, civic engagement, city management, public policy, community responsibility, future of California, leadership, public-private partnerships
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is the fastest that change has been occurred in human
history. We live in an attention deficit
democracy. We have to to re engage people
in caring about their government.
Jefferson famously said. If you want a people that are
both ignorant and free, you wantsomething that never has been
and never will be. But if you also look at history,
(00:22):
the heroism of these, there's always a basis for hope.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto the California Future Society
podcast. This week, I have a great one
for you. It's Rick Cole, who's one of the
experts on city government and city management, probably in the
entire state. He has nearly 4 decades of
experience as a senior executivein cities across Southern
California. And we talk about a number of
(00:42):
pressing issues, for example, why LA is facing nearly a
billion dollar budget shortfall,which is something his office
predicted 2 years ago. We talk about why city
management matters to the average Californian.
We talk about why, in his opinion, LA is squandering its
opportunity to make the most of the 2028 Olympics.
We also talk about whether or not California is at a turning
point and what gives him hope for the future of the state.
(01:04):
I know you're going to love it. If you're anyone who cares about
cities, city management, the future of California, there's
something in this conversation for you.
As always, the best way to follow these conversations is to
subscribe wherever you're listening to this or to
subscribe at California futuresociety.com.
With that, here's Rick. Rick, so excited to talk to you
today. You know, you are someone I
think uniquely positioned to speak about the state of local
(01:27):
government, where it's heading. You have such a rich career in
history in local government in Southern California.
So for people who don't know you, can you just introduce
yourself And also what what's your connection to California is
how I like to start these conversations.
Well, I grew up here in Pasadena, my hometown, and had
the honor of a lifetime of beingthere of of your hometown.
(01:47):
I got involved as a youngster because Pasadena went through
the integration of our segregated schools when I was in
high school. And that thrust me into activism
because the City Council and school board didn't handle that
(02:08):
crisis very well. And so young people had to step
forward and, and I was one of those that got involved and I I
served later on the City Council, got elected 29.
And after 12 years on the City Council, including the term as
mayor, I embarked upon a career in city management, which is an
unusual path. Most elected officials don't
(02:30):
become executives and vice versa.
Now, now I have been an elected official local government
executive, is the city manager of first Azusa for six years,
then Ventura for nine years, then Santa Monica for five
years. And between I, I did 2 years as
deputy mayor in charge of the budget in Los Angeles.
Now I'm back in the city of Los Angeles as the chief deputy
(02:52):
controller. And then last full I was elected
or actually last spring, excuse me, I was elected to the
Pasadena City Council again after an absence of 29 years.
So I've spent almost 40 years inlocal government here in
California in a variety of rolesas a commissioner, as a council
member, as a mayor and as a senior executive.
(03:15):
And now to anyone who doesn't really follow their local news
or may not be familiar with local budgeting, I know you've
touched on a lot of different issues over your career, but
budgeting has been one of the main themes.
You know, why do city budgets matter so much for the future of
our cities and for the future ofCalifornia?
And one of most people misunderstand about how their
cities are funded and managed. Well, to the first part of the
question, there was a famous bank robber in the Depression
(03:39):
named Willie Sutton. And reporters asked him why he
kept robbing banks. And he said because that's where
the money is. And, and so I learned very
quickly as as elected council members, you can make speeches,
you can pass motions, you can even pass laws.
And, and none of it really matters unless there are staff
members and dollars allocated actually implement what you come
(04:04):
up with in your speeches and your ordinances and your
policies. And so the budget is, is both
critical to the allocation of resources that affect you
literally when you walk out yourfront door, right the sidewalk,
the streets, the street lights, the police, the fire, the
libraries, the parks. But also it matters not just in
(04:28):
terms of the allocation of of resources amongst all of those
things and the taxes you pay, but also it has to do really
with with what your values are. What do you find most important?
For some people, that's public safety.
For other people, maybe in a different place on the Maslow's
hierarchy, it's it's having the greenery and, and for other
(04:51):
people it's it's equity and justice.
But how you allocate your dollars is a reflection of your
values as a community. And so I learned very quickly as
a council member to pay attention to where a city spends
its money on the second question, which is what most
people misunderstand. They misunderstand that, that
(05:14):
the budgeting is a row of very intimidating numbers, right line
items and, and, and, and thick impenetrable books that that
'cause people who are not particularly numerate to, to, to
their eyes to glaze over and, and to think this is way too
complicated for me to ever fullyunderstand.
(05:38):
And, and I think that's just wrong.
I got the great experience as a brand new council member asking
impertinent questions of the staff.
They decided that it was better to educate me than to Stonewall
me. And so they sent me literally to
a class called finance for the non finance executive.
(05:58):
And I learned how to read a profit and loss statement, read
how to learn how to read a balance sheet, learned how to
understand fund accounting in, in five days, right once over a
fairly superficial introduction to the world of, of numbers and
budgeting and accounting. But it's not as impenetrable as
(06:21):
it seems. And what I, my mantra as a, as a
senior executive always was it'snot the numbers that count, it's
what you do with the numbers that counts.
And I teach a boot camp to to new Latino elected officials
through the National Associationof Latino Elected Officials to
(06:42):
basically demystify budgeting for folks and to help them as
laypeople understand municipal budgeting and utilize that
knowledge as power to actually help shape the future trajectory
of their community and to serve their residents.
I want to dig into L as budget. You're talking about budgets
(07:03):
reflecting values. And right now there is a deficit
that your team's been talking about.
The mayor announced that layoffsare looming.
Can you talk about what's at stake for L as budget in the
near future and these these tough decisions?
And also, how does this deficit compare to other deficits that
you've seen cities weather across your nearly 4 decades?
Let me start with what does it mean for for Los Angeles, for
Los Angeles and its 4 million residents, but also for the the
(07:27):
10 million people who live in the county, including those 4
million who live in the city. All of us are affected the the
city of Los Angeles, the economic engine of our region.
It has the airport, it has the port, at least one of the two
ports and it, it, it, it's critical to the future of all of
Southern California. And we, we stand at a a nearly
(07:51):
billion dollar shortfall that's structural in nature.
It's not just a A1 time blip caused by a pandemic or caused
by a recession. The city has been on a path of
spending more money than it's taking in.
And we started warning about this in January of 2023, so more
(08:14):
than two years ago. And, and we pinpointed 4 of the
five reasons. The one we didn't anticipate was
the the devastating fire that that hit us in January, but we
did among our warnings talk about the increased likelihood
of climate related disasters. We didn't know it would take the
(08:37):
form it did, but, but clearly you could see that we're having
more major disasters that are climate related, whether they're
droughts or fires or floods. The other that we pinpointed was
that the economy which had bounced back from COVID wasn't
going to continue to rise at thesame pace.
It just the law of gravity and economics meant that there would
(08:59):
be a flattening and a plateauingof of that increase in revenue.
We were ignored and people assumed that the the economy was
going to continue to roar upwardand so they padded the budget
based upon overly optimistic revenue projections.
The second thing we warned aboutwas the systemic under budgeting
(09:23):
of some of our expenses, including what is now soaring
liability payouts that the city is, is encountering.
We also talked about the, the way in which infrastructure, the
lack of investment in, in our basic infrastructure.
And that, you know, that's a word that causes people again,
their eyes to glaze over. But that's, that's the streets
(09:43):
you drive on, that's the sidewalks you walk on, that's
the, the pipes that bring you water, that's the, the wires
that bring you electricity. That's the bridges that that
that carry you over rivers, thatinfrastructure is, is absolutely
basic to our quality of life andour standard of living.
And Los Angeles, like so many other California cities, has
(10:06):
neglected that in recent years. And at some point things begin
to break and, and then you have much greater costs to replace or
repair something that if you'd simply maintained it over the
years. And then we, we said, look,
there's going to be negotiationswith our, all of our unions and
(10:29):
inflationary times in a pro Union City, they're going to be
expectations about significant raises.
And so if you add those things together, the, the potential
for, for climate disasters, the,the reality that the economy
couldn't keep going at the rate it was increasing after COVID,
(10:53):
The, the reality that we have significant accumulation of
deferred maintenance, that we were going to have to give our,
our folks some form of raise. And finally that the COVID
bailout money from the federal government was going to run out.
You could see that this was coming.
(11:14):
Frankly, my boss, Kenneth Mejia,33 years old, not from
government but has ACPA and and understands budgets and and
accounting, he saw what was coming and we were frankly
derided and dismissed, the mayor's communications director
said. We were relying on theatrical
(11:36):
exaggerations and doomsday projections.
It actually turned out worse than than we predicted because
all of the factors that that we saw we, we, we gave raises.
We clearly could not afford a billion dollars over 4 years
additional to the police officers, $2,000,000 to the
(12:00):
civilians to match what was given to the police officers.
Again, $2 billion not of pay, $2billion more pay over 4 years
and and then we had the fires, the economy slowed, the
infrastructure bills are are coming due and the federal money
(12:21):
is gone. So so we are in a.
Let's talk through the fires because there's both the
material impact on the budget, but then it also strikes me that
there's a political impact that at a time when, you know, public
safety, both in the fire and in the police side, were played a
central role for a lot of individuals who were devastated
by these fires, whether in the Palisades or out.
(12:41):
And, you know, north of where where you live in Pasadena, you
know, psychologically and politically, you're saying it's
already a pro union town. It's already difficult to enter
those negotiations. I imagine it's even more
difficult politically. Do you see that factoring into
how the choices are made going forward and how how the tough
political realities are navigated?
Well, that's just a, an example of, of something that's built in
(13:05):
to our politics, Jared, And, andthat is the short term view.
We, we, we live in an attention deficit democracy and we tend to
lurch from headline to headline,crisis to crisis, sound bite to
sound bite, political campaign to political campaign, yearly
budget to yearly budget. I think it's really important
(13:28):
for us to take a longer view and, and not to be reactive
always to the latest crisis, thelatest scandal, the latest
eruption from the White House and, and to realize that, you
know, that the Longview I'm privileged to have because I've
(13:48):
been around a while and, and I've seen cycles and I've seen
crises and I've seen good times and bad times and, and taking
the Longview and investing is, is what previous generations
were better at. There are a lot of things about
previous generations that, that,that showed their blind spots
(14:09):
and, and their prejudices. But we are the beneficiaries of
major investments in in our infrastructure, both the hard
stuff, the bridges and the streets and the railroads and
the airports and all of that, but also the soft one of the
world's great university systemshere in California, what used to
(14:33):
be one of the best public schoolsystems in in the nation and
therefore in the world. The the creation of of local
democracy that had a vibrance that that the luster is off
today. And again, not to not to look
back on the past with rose colored glasses to her
(14:56):
homophobia, misogyny, racism, lots of things to fault our past
with. But we could, we could learn
from the importance of investingin your future, not just with
with cement, but also ecologically sensitive ways in
(15:17):
which we can actually do a better job of living in harmony
with our surroundings. Particularly in the age of of
climate change and taking the Longview that nature takes
rather than the view we've become accustomed to with the
immediacy of social media. I want to pivot to thinking
about the long term future of California.
But while we're on this topic ofof long term budget thinking, I
(15:40):
know pension liability is something that comes up a lot
both at the state and the municipal level.
I know it's hard to sometimes even find good quality data on
the state of municipal pension liability.
Thinking about the long term, that seems like the biggest
looming long term threat from a municipal finance perspective.
Can you speak to that? About how much should people be
concerned about that? Is that something that you know
you lose sleep over and will that have a negative impact on
(16:03):
our cities going forward if we maintain the status quo?
The state embarked upon a a major reform in 2011 under
Governor Brown and that staved off the crisis that that states
like Illinois and Kentucky have have faced.
With the volatility of the global economy.
(16:26):
We we may see that one of those 4 horsemen of the fiscal
apocalypse riding again with as the stock market gyrates.
When the stock market goes down,the investments that that pay
for future pension payouts go down as well.
Something like $6 trillion were wiped out of wealth globally
(16:50):
during the the Trump hiccup overtariffs, some of which is, you
know, sort of come back, but it's all paper money, right?
But if there's a serious global shrinkage in the economy,
pension debt will again be a a huge burden.
And what's different this time here in California is the last
time we were in part insulated from immediate shocks because
(17:13):
they had built in what they called smoothing, where the
immediate impacts of decline investments were not immediately
passed on to local governments. The trouble is, if you don't
immediately pay up, then the miracle of compound interest is
working against you. So one of the reforms that
(17:34):
happened post 2011 was to pass on that cost sooner rather than
later. So we could see some very heavy
blows to local government if theeconomy continues its downward
trajectory. We just got the headlines today
that last quarter the economy shrunk again.
(17:55):
Taking the Longview, you know, we no one knows where we're
going to be in two or three years, but there certainly is a
high risk. And of course, when that
happens, when there's a recession, not only do our
pension obligations suddenly balloon, but also our need for
services to help people who are struggling increases not so much
(18:18):
at the local level, but the county and the state level that
are responsible for unemploymentand welfare and what have you.
But also we we see a decline in our local revenues.
So, so that's why there's this tremendous volatility.
And you can go from the city of Los Angeles just two years ago,
celebrating record high reservesand adopting the mantra of let's
(18:44):
hire more people, more cops, more, more folks to work for the
city. And then less than two years
later, we're facing a billion dollar deficit.
That gyration is kind of unfortunately built into the
system. And it's why it's important to
take the Longview because crisesare almost built into the
(19:06):
system. And so creating resilience and
creating fiscal sustainability is really important because, you
know, maybe we're just lucky being right in January 2023, but
I don't think so. I think the reality is, is that
if you're looking carefully at history and, and the world we
(19:26):
live in today, you know that we,we sit on very fragile economic
institutions and, and that fragility has never been greater
than it is today. So you talked about these
writing, these tailwinds, the, the generational investments of
of prior decades of California on multiple fronts that you
(19:48):
listed. And I part of the reason I
started this, this podcast, my own writing is feeling like
we're in the turning point, particularly in the Southern
California around our identity and what Southern California
looks like and how we grow. I know one person you overlapped
with in Ventura, William Fulton,He wrote this book 20 years ago,
The Reluctant Metropolis. One of the themes there is LA
has, you know, kind of maximizedits horizontal sprawl.
(20:10):
It's sprawling out into the desert, implying kind of a need
to think differently about how the city develops in the region
develops going forward. And I know that's something
you've thought a lot about in your career.
Do you agree that we're in? A turning point and what do you
see as some of the big decisionsand changes that need to be made
in how Southern California develops and it's land use or
and other any other direction you want to take it?
(20:30):
I think we're at a turning point.
That's what I've been articulating here in my role at
the city with, with my boss, Kenneth Mejia, but also on my
own as a council member, newly elected council member in
Pasadena. But I don't see us treating it
as a, as a turning point, which means we're more likely to
muddle through and, and initiatewhat I think is a, a period of,
(20:57):
of slow and inexorable decline. And, and exhibit A of that is
the, the failure to capitalize on the coming of the Olympics.
Now, not everybody is happy about the Olympics for all kinds
of reasons. You know, it's become very
corporate and and really like many things in our society
oriented toward the billionaire class.
(21:18):
But the Olympics really in California, in Los Angeles
history has been a a huge opportunity in 1932 and in 1984
and, and we squandered that opportunity for 2028.
We had every opportunity gettingthese Olympics years ago to
build actual legacy improvementsto both solve some of our
(21:43):
existing problems and invest in future possibilities so that
there would be a lasting legacy after the Olympics.
Now we're we're scrambling madlyjust to be able to put them on
for the benefit of the people who are coming here mostly on
corporate jets, right? They may not make up the bulk of
the attendance, but but that seems to be who these games are
(22:06):
really oriented to. And, and we had the opportunity
to to fix homelessness instead of facing the question of where
are we going to hide these people for, for, for two weeks.
We had we had the opportunity toto improve our healthcare
system, to improve our our placemaking throughout Southern
California, to improve our our transit system.
(22:29):
The one thing we did right, which my previous boss very
different from the one I work for now, Eric Garcetti got
right, was we have rebuilt LAX. And by the time the Olympics
arrive in 2028, LAX will have been transformed into a into a
sad and and outmoded airport, into a 21st century air hub,
(22:51):
international air hub. So we did that right.
Why didn't we do that with everyother aspect of of the
challenges and opportunities we face?
We, we simply were asleep at thewheel.
So to your earlier question about, you know, is this a
turning point? Yes, it is a potential turning
point, but that requires leadership.
Now as to where that comes from,I don't think that comes from a
(23:15):
politician necessarily. I don't think that comes from a
politics and government necessarily.
I think that I've always believed that the the politics
and government rest upon the foundation of civic leadership
and civic leadership is not an elitist thing.
Civic leadership is a broad based foundation for for
(23:41):
democratic society. Jefferson famously said.
If you want a people that are both ignorant and free, you want
something that never has been and never will be right.
We don't ask much of citizens today in our community.
And when I use the word citizens, I mean people who live
here, not their technical adherence to, you know,
(24:03):
immigration laws. Citizens are the foundation to
me of government and politics. And we simply ask of citizens
just just vote every two years, right?
Please at least vote, right? And, and unfortunately, because
between elections they're not involved in participating,
(24:24):
they're then subject to this avalanche of, of meretricious
propaganda and try to sort theirway through to vote, you know,
is this person, you know, let's throw out that bastard and throw
in this bastard. And which is the lesser of the
two evils? That's one of the great things
about Kenneth's campaign. Kenneth Mejia, 31 year old CPA
(24:46):
who had literally not set foot in City Hall except twice and
both times were for protests andhe got more votes than any
candidate for any office in the history of Los Angeles.
Now some of that is because he'sa fresh, brilliant, honest guy
(25:06):
who who looked different from the usual politicians that
people are sick of. But that's the other side of it
is that people are sort of sick of these poll tested inauthentic
cater to the the the the cliches, empty cliches of the
(25:26):
moment. We're sick of them.
And so we're looking for something that's that's
different and authentic and, andKenneth captured that moment.
But the leadership ultimately comes from from the voters.
And when I knocked on over 5000 doors in my campaign and I
stopped counting at 5000 doors, I found people were deeply
(25:48):
thoughtful about the challenges of the day.
They were deeply caring about their community and they were
abysmally ignorant about their local government.
And, and that disjunction, I think is where, where the
leadership has to come from. We have to, to re engage people
in caring about their government.
(26:09):
Democracy is not something that's that's guaranteed.
In fact, in, in human history, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an
ephemeral little fragile blip. The vast majority of human
history, we lived in tribes and,and then we got out of, we got
bigger than tribes. We had priests and generals and
and and emperors. Actual self government is a rare
(26:34):
phenomena in human history and and it it it is based not on
incredibly enlightened states, people who you know, who, who
guide us through through challenges when we get them.
We're incredibly lucky. We've had people like Abraham
Lincoln and you know, emerge, but we've also the the to, to,
(26:57):
to say, well, where's the next Abraham Lincoln?
I think we'll be we may be laying a long, long time.
Instead, I think we have to be and and your podcast is, you
know, sort of trying to build that.
Let's get people first of all informed, second of all,
activated and or engaged and then and then activated to
(27:20):
actually do something and then do something is not necessarily
go to the next Planning Commission meeting or to to
volunteer for a political campaign.
It may be volunteering at your local home shelter.
It it may be bringing a, a topicabout public education to your
church, right. I mean, there are ways in which
people can contribute to a healthy Civic Society and civil
(27:45):
discourse without necessarily becoming political junkies or or
having to run for office. But that's everyone's
responsibility. We care a lot about our rights
in the society. We need to be caring about our
responsibilities not only for ourselves but for future
generations. I think it's really inspiring
for me and I'm sure will be inspiring for a lot of other
people. And one of the things that I
(28:07):
find so refreshing and speaking to you and thinking about your
career as well as you've been city government, local
government for, you know, like you're saying, nearly 40 years
for for forever. And you've at almost every stage
you can look back and track someof that issues you were
advocating for. You've always been on the
cutting edge, open innovation, open to thinking in a different
(28:28):
way about how cities operate andrun.
What are the lessons after, after nearly 40 years of working
in local government, about, you know, how do you get people to
think differently? Two things.
One is my secret advantage has always been not that I was
smarter than other people, because that's literally not
true. I I've gained enormously from
(28:48):
people who are smarter than me, both as colleagues and as as
role models and inspirations. But I deeply believe in this
idea that the future is already here.
It's just unevenly distributed. So most of my colleagues in, in
local government, whether elected or staff, focus on local
government and their expert in the realm of local government.
(29:10):
I've, I've always been Catholic,small C in my taste.
I'm also a Catholic in my faith,but Catholic in the sense of
broad minded and universal. I, I, I pay attention to what's
going on in sports, what's goingon in entertainment, what's
going on in academia, what's going on in the media, what's
going on particularly in business in the private sector,
(29:30):
not just here in this country, but all over the world.
Because what's happening there will eventually what's happening
in local government. For example, I used to carry
around a Blockbuster card and say, you know, remember going to
Blockbuster. And of course, people, yeah, of
course I went to Blockbuster. Everyone went to Blockbuster.
It was the, it was the, the way you got movies unless you went
to the theater and it brought, brought movies in people's
(29:53):
homes. And they were the best in the
world at the business they thought they were in.
They thought they were in the video rental business and they
were the best in the world at renting videos.
Netflix knew that they were in the content delivery business
and so they wiped out Blockbuster because Blockbuster
(30:17):
made the same mistake that travel agents made that
newspapers made that that many the new encyclopedias made is
they thought they were, you know, newspapers thought they
were in the business of providing news and on paper and
it turned out that people get their news in other ways.
(30:38):
Travel agents thought they they were in the business of helping
people travel by booking their hotels and their airlines.
And now people book their hotelsand their airlines by themselves
and put travel agents out of business.
You can go on and on. My point is that if you pay
attention to what's going on in the rest of the world, it
eventually comes over to affect local government.
(30:59):
And I think the, the myopia has is always that, well, local
governments special because, youknow, of course people are
always going to need a fire department.
They're always going to need public libraries.
They're always that not true. Right out of, out of the 10,000
years of, of, of urban history, public libraries and fire
(31:20):
departments are incredibly new innovations that were created
for the exact reason of dealing with a burgeoning industrial
society. And they were, they were
solutions to problems of 100 and150 years ago.
And they're not necessarily solutions to the problems of the
next 3050 years or maybe in the next 6 months in some cases.
(31:43):
The other lesson, though, besides just paying attention to
things beyond local government, the other lesson I think that's
that's important is to understand the dynamism of the
world we live in. Steve Wesley said this.
I don't think it's original withhim, but it's where I heard it.
He said this is the fastest thatchange has happened in human
(32:07):
history. You look at how far China has
come in 100 years. You look at what the the
smartphone has done to our livescompletely outdated how we date,
how we choose restaurants, how we pay our bills on and on.
This is the fastest that change has been occurring in human
(32:28):
history 300,000 years of home sapiens 10,000 years since the
Neolithic revolution. It's just, it's the, the speed
is mind numbing and what Wesley said and and we're living
through it is it's never been this, it's never going to be
this slow again, right, That thepace is continuing to
(32:48):
accelerate. And so my preoccupation, my
obsession, what, what whatever God gives me in the way of, of
breath and, and ability over thenext days, weeks, months, years,
is devoted to safeguarding the timeless things that are
(33:09):
important community, democracy, sustainability and adapting to
these Titanic dynamic changes. So we can protect community, we
can protect democracy, we can protect sustainability by
changing and adapting to changing times and, and keeping
(33:32):
these eternal basic values and, and assets that, that make life
worth living for, for human beings, without which I think
we'll live very lonely and miserable lives and, and, and
to, to safeguard them in the midst of, of drastic change.
(33:54):
And I think you have to fight for that every single day.
And that's what I try to devote my life to doing.
Thinking about how things are changing, how the future is
already here, just not evenly distributed.
What is the future of local government look like in your
opinion? How is it shifting after a
career spent, seen and evolved? I think it involves much more
(34:14):
partnership. We we there was a, you know, a
whole generation of public private partnerships and there's
some values to that. One of the first votes I cast
consequential as a as a young left wing council member was to
privatize the, the golf course in in Pasadena.
And some of my allies were were appalled.
Why would you do that? And, and we were, we were badly
(34:37):
managing a golf course and losing $250,000.
And by by having somebody who was more confident running a
golf course, we made $750,000. So it gave us $1,000,000.
We could actually devote to artsand libraries and other things
that that I wanted to invest in.So I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm
not ideologically driven. I used to have on my wall and
(35:01):
and in my office in Santa Monicaa quote in Chinese from Deng
Xiaoping. He said, I don't care if the cat
is black or white. What I care about is, does it
catch mice? Right.
So I think I continue to be up aggressive.
I continue to to believe fervently in that the role of
(35:24):
government in the public sector is to, is to particularly
safeguard the most vulnerable inour society that and that's
under increasing threat as our society becomes more unequal in
its distribution of wealth. But but for all that, what I'm
interested in is what works and,and, and what works is, is not
necessarily on the left or the right or the middle.
(35:47):
And, and, and often those labelsare irrelevant to, to what
works. Fiorello LaGuardia, the great
mayor of of New York, famously said there's no Republican or
Democratic way of picking up thegarbage.
So in that sense, the future of local government, I think is not
(36:08):
public private partnerships. That's an aspect I think we've
milked that for about as far as it's going to go.
And, but I think it's public public partnership.
It's actually partnering with the citizens of our community.
I just was reminded of this when, when I was on the council
(36:29):
the first time, there was a a frightening incident that
happened in in one of our parks,which was surrounded on four
sides by by residents. And what happened was there was
a a hold up of of a nanny and and some of of her charges.
And it was at gunpoint. And of course the neighborhood
(36:50):
just freaked out. And part of the reason that went
that happened was we had we had an old building that had been
damaged by fire that the city had not gotten around to
demolishing. And so people said, well, let's
demolish this building so that we can see into the park better.
(37:11):
So absolutely I went to the, youknow, I was versed in, in by
this time in in city finances. I went to the city manager.
Let's get it in capital program.Yes, we're going to do the
capital program. And then I came back to the
neighborhood and said, what's inthe capital program?
You know, your, your counselors delivered for you and they said,
well, when will it actually get done?
Well, of course we have to, you know, do the RFP and we have to
(37:34):
let out the contract and, you know, on and on.
And like it'd probably be a year.
And they said here, we want thisdone now.
And so I went to the city manager and I said, can you
don't ask the attorneys, just can you lend us a truck and some
saws and crowbars and, and shovels and, and surprisingly,
(37:55):
he said, sure. And so one Saturday, a truck
showed up and the neighbors gathered and we tore down this
building. It took us actually 2 Saturdays.
But then the neighborhoods like this is now our part.
Our literally our blood, sweat and tears are invested in this.
We treat government now like a vending machine, right?
You you put your money into thismysterious machinery and then
(38:18):
you expect it to deliver you Coke or a bag of potato chips
or, you know, a hot burrito or whatever.
And we have no idea how it works.
And we're always pissed off thatwe put money in and we don't get
what we want. Or, you know, the, the burrito
comes out cold or the Coke turnsout to be diet of an up.
And, and you know, we asked for a potato chip and nothing came
out. And, and when we're dissatisfied
(38:39):
with a vending machine, we, we shake it, you know, we kick it.
And that's what's happening withgovernment.
People are, are frustrated at putting money in and I'm not
getting what I want. You know, I put billions in and
we're not solely homelessness. And you know, I once made this
analogy in a in a rural audience.
And when the guy in the back said up here, we shoot it.
(39:01):
And you know, that's happening. It's happening not just here in
California and, and the country around the world, people are
dissatisfied because they don't understand this complicated
black box that's supposed to deliver what they want.
There's an earlier tradition in America from the frontier called
the barn raising, right where a family could not on its own
(39:25):
build a barn to keep its animalswarm in the winter and store
their their hay over the winter.And, and it it required on the
whole community kind of coming together and everybody having a
role. Somebody fried the chicken,
somebody said a prayer, somebodytook care of the kids.
Some people, you know, the brawnear ones, you know, actually did
the heavy lifting. The, the older ones knew how to,
(39:49):
you know, design and cut the thing and make it all work.
And then everybody had some sense of, of ownership just in
as in our barn de raising at thepark.
I think the future of local government is engaging people
not just in knowing better who to pick to vote.
But rather to actually be involved in some way that's
(40:10):
difficult at the at the scale of4 million.
But Mayor Bass is actually trying to pull this off.
She's, you know, in the face of of crippling cuts to city
services, she's asking people tocome out and help clean up their
neighborhoods. I think it's a little tone deaf
because it's it's being framed as let's get ready for the
Olympics. But you know, if that appeals to
(40:31):
people, great. But we we actually need to roll
up our sleeves and make local government local again and
rebuild the sense of community that these are our communities
and we need to work together to improve them.
My family has some Pennsylvania Dutch heritage, and so I grew up
with under a photo of a barn raising in one of our hallways.
(40:53):
So that popped into mind as you were describing tearing down
that building. So I love that analogy.
And then just to end, you know, the last question that I think
that alone what you just described is a very inspiring
vision of how the stake can go forward, but what what gives you
hope for the future of California?
Well, Pope Francis, who just left us said, and I'm
paraphrasing here, but he basically said, if you look at
history, there's no basis for optimism, right?
(41:16):
Things don't always turn out well.
In fact, sometimes they turn outhorrifically for extended
periods of time. But if you also look at history,
at, at the tremendous resilienceof human beings, that the
heroism of human beings, there'salways a basis for hope, right?
So I'm not particularly optimistic about Southern
(41:37):
California right at this moment,or our country for that matter,
but I'm deeply hopeful. And what gives me the most hope,
there are a lot of of, of thingsthat I see as positive.
But the thing that gives me mosthope is is young elected
officials like Kenneth Mejia, myboss, like Sasha Renee Perez,
(41:58):
our new state senator, like Isaac Bryant here in, in South
LA, like Alex Lee up in the Bay Area, Folks who are idealistic,
but also, I think deeply committed to actually
accomplishing making the world work better.
(42:19):
You know, like me when I was 29,they have a few things to learn.
Who doesn't? I'm still learning at 71.
But the fact that, A, they've put themselves out there to run
and B, they have triumphed over big money and, and special
(42:40):
interest and, and, and the machine of, of kind of permanent
government, I think gives me a great deal of hope.
And I, again, I don't think we're going to be rescued by, by
elected officials or as we call them, politicians, but we
absolutely need folks who can bring enlightened leadership to
(43:03):
our public institutions. And they won't like me, they
won't always make everyone happythat they will make their own
mistakes. I used to say as a city manager
that if I hit 350, you know, oneout of three, I would go to the
City Manager Hall of Fame because that's really a good
batting average. But that's what gives me hope is
(43:25):
that the people are willing to elect fresh faces and young
voices. And those fresh faces and young
voices I think have the potential to to do remarkable
things. And I'm doing everything I can
to to support them. And in Kenneth's case, he's
given me the honor of, of working.
(43:48):
I say for him, he always corrects me to say with him and
and to provide hopefully some value of experience.
But also I was inspired. I would not have run for for
City Council if I had not seen this, this spark because you
know, when you're elected at 29 people before you even take
office, people say, or you can run for next right?
(44:10):
Cuz certainly wouldn't be satisfied with running for City
Council next assembly and then state Senate and then Congress.
And pretty soon you begin to hear hail to the chief in your
ear. And and and then after I left
office, it's like, will you everrun again?
You know, I mean, you had a promising career.
And and my answer always was no,I would not run for Rick Cole
(44:33):
that has no interest in me. I've got blacks on my wall.
I, you know, my obituary, you know, is going to say I was
mayor of my hometown. But if I felt part of a movement
and I could contribute my experience to a movement, I do
feel that there's an incipient movement.
And yes, it's, you know, it's young progressives, but it's not
just young progressives. It's, it's young people who are
(44:55):
questioning the status quo, questioning the machine,
questioning the the way things have always been done.
And I think that's very hopeful.It's a great note to end on.
Rick, I really appreciate your time and I appreciate your 40
years of public service. I'm grateful to have people like
you in our controller's office, and I hope you have a great rest
(45:15):
of your day. Thank you for taking the time to
talk to me today. Jared, thank you for this
project. I hope it flourishes.
Thank you. Well, with the help of guests
like you, hopefully it will. Yeah.
Thanks, Rick. Take care.
(46:23):
The.
This is the fastest that change has been occurred in human
history. We live in an attention deficit
democracy. We have to to re engage people
in caring about their government.
Jefferson famously said. If you want a people that are
both ignorant and free, you wantsomething that never has been
and never will be. But if you also look at history,
(00:22):
the heroism of these, there's always a basis for hope.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto the California Future Society
podcast. This week, I have a great one
for you. It's Rick Cole, who's one of the
experts on city government and city management, probably in the
entire state. He has nearly 4 decades of
experience as a senior executivein cities across Southern
California. And we talk about a number of
(00:42):
pressing issues, for example, why LA is facing nearly a
billion dollar budget shortfall,which is something his office
predicted 2 years ago. We talk about why city
management matters to the average Californian.
We talk about why, in his opinion, LA is squandering its
opportunity to make the most of the 2028 Olympics.
We also talk about whether or not California is at a turning
point and what gives him hope for the future of the state.
(01:04):
I know you're going to love it. If you're anyone who cares about
cities, city management, the future of California, there's
something in this conversation for you.
As always, the best way to follow these conversations is to
subscribe wherever you're listening to this or to
subscribe at California futuresociety.com.
With that, here's Rick. Rick, so excited to talk to you
today. You know, you are someone I
think uniquely positioned to speak about the state of local
(01:27):
government, where it's heading. You have such a rich career in
history in local government in Southern California.
So for people who don't know you, can you just introduce
yourself And also what what's your connection to California is
how I like to start these conversations.
Well, I grew up here in Pasadena, my hometown, and had
the honor of a lifetime of beingthere of of your hometown.
(01:47):
I got involved as a youngster because Pasadena went through
the integration of our segregated schools when I was in
high school. And that thrust me into activism
because the City Council and school board didn't handle that
(02:08):
crisis very well. And so young people had to step
forward and, and I was one of those that got involved and I I
served later on the City Council, got elected 29.
And after 12 years on the City Council, including the term as
mayor, I embarked upon a career in city management, which is an
unusual path. Most elected officials don't
(02:30):
become executives and vice versa.
Now, now I have been an elected official local government
executive, is the city manager of first Azusa for six years,
then Ventura for nine years, then Santa Monica for five
years. And between I, I did 2 years as
deputy mayor in charge of the budget in Los Angeles.
Now I'm back in the city of Los Angeles as the chief deputy
(02:52):
controller. And then last full I was elected
or actually last spring, excuse me, I was elected to the
Pasadena City Council again after an absence of 29 years.
So I've spent almost 40 years inlocal government here in
California in a variety of rolesas a commissioner, as a council
member, as a mayor and as a senior executive.
(03:15):
And now to anyone who doesn't really follow their local news
or may not be familiar with local budgeting, I know you've
touched on a lot of different issues over your career, but
budgeting has been one of the main themes.
You know, why do city budgets matter so much for the future of
our cities and for the future ofCalifornia?
And one of most people misunderstand about how their
cities are funded and managed. Well, to the first part of the
question, there was a famous bank robber in the Depression
(03:39):
named Willie Sutton. And reporters asked him why he
kept robbing banks. And he said because that's where
the money is. And, and so I learned very
quickly as as elected council members, you can make speeches,
you can pass motions, you can even pass laws.
And, and none of it really matters unless there are staff
members and dollars allocated actually implement what you come
(04:04):
up with in your speeches and your ordinances and your
policies. And so the budget is, is both
critical to the allocation of resources that affect you
literally when you walk out yourfront door, right the sidewalk,
the streets, the street lights, the police, the fire, the
libraries, the parks. But also it matters not just in
(04:28):
terms of the allocation of of resources amongst all of those
things and the taxes you pay, but also it has to do really
with with what your values are. What do you find most important?
For some people, that's public safety.
For other people, maybe in a different place on the Maslow's
hierarchy, it's it's having the greenery and, and for other
(04:51):
people it's it's equity and justice.
But how you allocate your dollars is a reflection of your
values as a community. And so I learned very quickly as
a council member to pay attention to where a city spends
its money on the second question, which is what most
people misunderstand. They misunderstand that, that
(05:14):
the budgeting is a row of very intimidating numbers, right line
items and, and, and, and thick impenetrable books that that
'cause people who are not particularly numerate to, to, to
their eyes to glaze over and, and to think this is way too
complicated for me to ever fullyunderstand.
(05:38):
And, and I think that's just wrong.
I got the great experience as a brand new council member asking
impertinent questions of the staff.
They decided that it was better to educate me than to Stonewall
me. And so they sent me literally to
a class called finance for the non finance executive.
(05:58):
And I learned how to read a profit and loss statement, read
how to learn how to read a balance sheet, learned how to
understand fund accounting in, in five days, right once over a
fairly superficial introduction to the world of, of numbers and
budgeting and accounting. But it's not as impenetrable as
(06:21):
it seems. And what I, my mantra as a, as a
senior executive always was it'snot the numbers that count, it's
what you do with the numbers that counts.
And I teach a boot camp to to new Latino elected officials
through the National Associationof Latino Elected Officials to
(06:42):
basically demystify budgeting for folks and to help them as
laypeople understand municipal budgeting and utilize that
knowledge as power to actually help shape the future trajectory
of their community and to serve their residents.
I want to dig into L as budget. You're talking about budgets
(07:03):
reflecting values. And right now there is a deficit
that your team's been talking about.
The mayor announced that layoffsare looming.
Can you talk about what's at stake for L as budget in the
near future and these these tough decisions?
And also, how does this deficit compare to other deficits that
you've seen cities weather across your nearly 4 decades?
Let me start with what does it mean for for Los Angeles, for
Los Angeles and its 4 million residents, but also for the the
(07:27):
10 million people who live in the county, including those 4
million who live in the city. All of us are affected the the
city of Los Angeles, the economic engine of our region.
It has the airport, it has the port, at least one of the two
ports and it, it, it, it's critical to the future of all of
Southern California. And we, we stand at a a nearly
(07:51):
billion dollar shortfall that's structural in nature.
It's not just a A1 time blip caused by a pandemic or caused
by a recession. The city has been on a path of
spending more money than it's taking in.
And we started warning about this in January of 2023, so more
(08:14):
than two years ago. And, and we pinpointed 4 of the
five reasons. The one we didn't anticipate was
the the devastating fire that that hit us in January, but we
did among our warnings talk about the increased likelihood
of climate related disasters. We didn't know it would take the
(08:37):
form it did, but, but clearly you could see that we're having
more major disasters that are climate related, whether they're
droughts or fires or floods. The other that we pinpointed was
that the economy which had bounced back from COVID wasn't
going to continue to rise at thesame pace.
It just the law of gravity and economics meant that there would
(08:59):
be a flattening and a plateauingof of that increase in revenue.
We were ignored and people assumed that the the economy was
going to continue to roar upwardand so they padded the budget
based upon overly optimistic revenue projections.
The second thing we warned aboutwas the systemic under budgeting
(09:23):
of some of our expenses, including what is now soaring
liability payouts that the city is, is encountering.
We also talked about the, the way in which infrastructure, the
lack of investment in, in our basic infrastructure.
And that, you know, that's a word that causes people again,
their eyes to glaze over. But that's, that's the streets
(09:43):
you drive on, that's the sidewalks you walk on, that's
the, the pipes that bring you water, that's the, the wires
that bring you electricity. That's the bridges that that
that carry you over rivers, thatinfrastructure is, is absolutely
basic to our quality of life andour standard of living.
And Los Angeles, like so many other California cities, has
(10:06):
neglected that in recent years. And at some point things begin
to break and, and then you have much greater costs to replace or
repair something that if you'd simply maintained it over the
years. And then we, we said, look,
there's going to be negotiationswith our, all of our unions and
(10:29):
inflationary times in a pro Union City, they're going to be
expectations about significant raises.
And so if you add those things together, the, the potential
for, for climate disasters, the,the reality that the economy
couldn't keep going at the rate it was increasing after COVID,
(10:53):
The, the reality that we have significant accumulation of
deferred maintenance, that we were going to have to give our,
our folks some form of raise. And finally that the COVID
bailout money from the federal government was going to run out.
You could see that this was coming.
(11:14):
Frankly, my boss, Kenneth Mejia,33 years old, not from
government but has ACPA and and understands budgets and and
accounting, he saw what was coming and we were frankly
derided and dismissed, the mayor's communications director
said. We were relying on theatrical
(11:36):
exaggerations and doomsday projections.
It actually turned out worse than than we predicted because
all of the factors that that we saw we, we, we gave raises.
We clearly could not afford a billion dollars over 4 years
additional to the police officers, $2,000,000 to the
(12:00):
civilians to match what was given to the police officers.
Again, $2 billion not of pay, $2billion more pay over 4 years
and and then we had the fires, the economy slowed, the
infrastructure bills are are coming due and the federal money
(12:21):
is gone. So so we are in a.
Let's talk through the fires because there's both the
material impact on the budget, but then it also strikes me that
there's a political impact that at a time when, you know, public
safety, both in the fire and in the police side, were played a
central role for a lot of individuals who were devastated
by these fires, whether in the Palisades or out.
(12:41):
And, you know, north of where where you live in Pasadena, you
know, psychologically and politically, you're saying it's
already a pro union town. It's already difficult to enter
those negotiations. I imagine it's even more
difficult politically. Do you see that factoring into
how the choices are made going forward and how how the tough
political realities are navigated?
Well, that's just a, an example of, of something that's built in
(13:05):
to our politics, Jared, And, andthat is the short term view.
We, we, we live in an attention deficit democracy and we tend to
lurch from headline to headline,crisis to crisis, sound bite to
sound bite, political campaign to political campaign, yearly
budget to yearly budget. I think it's really important
(13:28):
for us to take a longer view and, and not to be reactive
always to the latest crisis, thelatest scandal, the latest
eruption from the White House and, and to realize that, you
know, that the Longview I'm privileged to have because I've
(13:48):
been around a while and, and I've seen cycles and I've seen
crises and I've seen good times and bad times and, and taking
the Longview and investing is, is what previous generations
were better at. There are a lot of things about
previous generations that, that,that showed their blind spots
(14:09):
and, and their prejudices. But we are the beneficiaries of
major investments in in our infrastructure, both the hard
stuff, the bridges and the streets and the railroads and
the airports and all of that, but also the soft one of the
world's great university systemshere in California, what used to
(14:33):
be one of the best public schoolsystems in in the nation and
therefore in the world. The the creation of of local
democracy that had a vibrance that that the luster is off
today. And again, not to not to look
back on the past with rose colored glasses to her
(14:56):
homophobia, misogyny, racism, lots of things to fault our past
with. But we could, we could learn
from the importance of investingin your future, not just with
with cement, but also ecologically sensitive ways in
(15:17):
which we can actually do a better job of living in harmony
with our surroundings. Particularly in the age of of
climate change and taking the Longview that nature takes
rather than the view we've become accustomed to with the
immediacy of social media. I want to pivot to thinking
about the long term future of California.
But while we're on this topic ofof long term budget thinking, I
(15:40):
know pension liability is something that comes up a lot
both at the state and the municipal level.
I know it's hard to sometimes even find good quality data on
the state of municipal pension liability.
Thinking about the long term, that seems like the biggest
looming long term threat from a municipal finance perspective.
Can you speak to that? About how much should people be
concerned about that? Is that something that you know
you lose sleep over and will that have a negative impact on
(16:03):
our cities going forward if we maintain the status quo?
The state embarked upon a a major reform in 2011 under
Governor Brown and that staved off the crisis that that states
like Illinois and Kentucky have have faced.
With the volatility of the global economy.
(16:26):
We we may see that one of those 4 horsemen of the fiscal
apocalypse riding again with as the stock market gyrates.
When the stock market goes down,the investments that that pay
for future pension payouts go down as well.
Something like $6 trillion were wiped out of wealth globally
(16:50):
during the the Trump hiccup overtariffs, some of which is, you
know, sort of come back, but it's all paper money, right?
But if there's a serious global shrinkage in the economy,
pension debt will again be a a huge burden.
And what's different this time here in California is the last
time we were in part insulated from immediate shocks because
(17:13):
they had built in what they called smoothing, where the
immediate impacts of decline investments were not immediately
passed on to local governments. The trouble is, if you don't
immediately pay up, then the miracle of compound interest is
working against you. So one of the reforms that
(17:34):
happened post 2011 was to pass on that cost sooner rather than
later. So we could see some very heavy
blows to local government if theeconomy continues its downward
trajectory. We just got the headlines today
that last quarter the economy shrunk again.
(17:55):
Taking the Longview, you know, we no one knows where we're
going to be in two or three years, but there certainly is a
high risk. And of course, when that
happens, when there's a recession, not only do our
pension obligations suddenly balloon, but also our need for
services to help people who are struggling increases not so much
(18:18):
at the local level, but the county and the state level that
are responsible for unemploymentand welfare and what have you.
But also we we see a decline in our local revenues.
So, so that's why there's this tremendous volatility.
And you can go from the city of Los Angeles just two years ago,
celebrating record high reservesand adopting the mantra of let's
(18:44):
hire more people, more cops, more, more folks to work for the
city. And then less than two years
later, we're facing a billion dollar deficit.
That gyration is kind of unfortunately built into the
system. And it's why it's important to
take the Longview because crisesare almost built into the
(19:06):
system. And so creating resilience and
creating fiscal sustainability is really important because, you
know, maybe we're just lucky being right in January 2023, but
I don't think so. I think the reality is, is that
if you're looking carefully at history and, and the world we
(19:26):
live in today, you know that we,we sit on very fragile economic
institutions and, and that fragility has never been greater
than it is today. So you talked about these
writing, these tailwinds, the, the generational investments of
of prior decades of California on multiple fronts that you
(19:48):
listed. And I part of the reason I
started this, this podcast, my own writing is feeling like
we're in the turning point, particularly in the Southern
California around our identity and what Southern California
looks like and how we grow. I know one person you overlapped
with in Ventura, William Fulton,He wrote this book 20 years ago,
The Reluctant Metropolis. One of the themes there is LA
has, you know, kind of maximizedits horizontal sprawl.
(20:10):
It's sprawling out into the desert, implying kind of a need
to think differently about how the city develops in the region
develops going forward. And I know that's something
you've thought a lot about in your career.
Do you agree that we're in? A turning point and what do you
see as some of the big decisionsand changes that need to be made
in how Southern California develops and it's land use or
and other any other direction you want to take it?
(20:30):
I think we're at a turning point.
That's what I've been articulating here in my role at
the city with, with my boss, Kenneth Mejia, but also on my
own as a council member, newly elected council member in
Pasadena. But I don't see us treating it
as a, as a turning point, which means we're more likely to
muddle through and, and initiatewhat I think is a, a period of,
(20:57):
of slow and inexorable decline. And, and exhibit A of that is
the, the failure to capitalize on the coming of the Olympics.
Now, not everybody is happy about the Olympics for all kinds
of reasons. You know, it's become very
corporate and and really like many things in our society
oriented toward the billionaire class.
(21:18):
But the Olympics really in California, in Los Angeles
history has been a a huge opportunity in 1932 and in 1984
and, and we squandered that opportunity for 2028.
We had every opportunity gettingthese Olympics years ago to
build actual legacy improvementsto both solve some of our
(21:43):
existing problems and invest in future possibilities so that
there would be a lasting legacy after the Olympics.
Now we're we're scrambling madlyjust to be able to put them on
for the benefit of the people who are coming here mostly on
corporate jets, right? They may not make up the bulk of
the attendance, but but that seems to be who these games are
(22:06):
really oriented to. And, and we had the opportunity
to to fix homelessness instead of facing the question of where
are we going to hide these people for, for, for two weeks.
We had we had the opportunity toto improve our healthcare
system, to improve our our placemaking throughout Southern
California, to improve our our transit system.
(22:29):
The one thing we did right, which my previous boss very
different from the one I work for now, Eric Garcetti got
right, was we have rebuilt LAX. And by the time the Olympics
arrive in 2028, LAX will have been transformed into a into a
sad and and outmoded airport, into a 21st century air hub,
(22:51):
international air hub. So we did that right.
Why didn't we do that with everyother aspect of of the
challenges and opportunities we face?
We, we simply were asleep at thewheel.
So to your earlier question about, you know, is this a
turning point? Yes, it is a potential turning
point, but that requires leadership.
Now as to where that comes from,I don't think that comes from a
(23:15):
politician necessarily. I don't think that comes from a
politics and government necessarily.
I think that I've always believed that the the politics
and government rest upon the foundation of civic leadership
and civic leadership is not an elitist thing.
Civic leadership is a broad based foundation for for
(23:41):
democratic society. Jefferson famously said.
If you want a people that are both ignorant and free, you want
something that never has been and never will be right.
We don't ask much of citizens today in our community.
And when I use the word citizens, I mean people who live
here, not their technical adherence to, you know,
(24:03):
immigration laws. Citizens are the foundation to
me of government and politics. And we simply ask of citizens
just just vote every two years, right?
Please at least vote, right? And, and unfortunately, because
between elections they're not involved in participating,
(24:24):
they're then subject to this avalanche of, of meretricious
propaganda and try to sort theirway through to vote, you know,
is this person, you know, let's throw out that bastard and throw
in this bastard. And which is the lesser of the
two evils? That's one of the great things
about Kenneth's campaign. Kenneth Mejia, 31 year old CPA
(24:46):
who had literally not set foot in City Hall except twice and
both times were for protests andhe got more votes than any
candidate for any office in the history of Los Angeles.
Now some of that is because he'sa fresh, brilliant, honest guy
(25:06):
who who looked different from the usual politicians that
people are sick of. But that's the other side of it
is that people are sort of sick of these poll tested inauthentic
cater to the the the the cliches, empty cliches of the
(25:26):
moment. We're sick of them.
And so we're looking for something that's that's
different and authentic and, andKenneth captured that moment.
But the leadership ultimately comes from from the voters.
And when I knocked on over 5000 doors in my campaign and I
stopped counting at 5000 doors, I found people were deeply
(25:48):
thoughtful about the challenges of the day.
They were deeply caring about their community and they were
abysmally ignorant about their local government.
And, and that disjunction, I think is where, where the
leadership has to come from. We have to, to re engage people
in caring about their government.
(26:09):
Democracy is not something that's that's guaranteed.
In fact, in, in human history, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an
ephemeral little fragile blip. The vast majority of human
history, we lived in tribes and,and then we got out of, we got
bigger than tribes. We had priests and generals and
and and emperors. Actual self government is a rare
(26:34):
phenomena in human history and and it it it is based not on
incredibly enlightened states, people who you know, who, who
guide us through through challenges when we get them.
We're incredibly lucky. We've had people like Abraham
Lincoln and you know, emerge, but we've also the the to, to,
(26:57):
to say, well, where's the next Abraham Lincoln?
I think we'll be we may be laying a long, long time.
Instead, I think we have to be and and your podcast is, you
know, sort of trying to build that.
Let's get people first of all informed, second of all,
activated and or engaged and then and then activated to
(27:20):
actually do something and then do something is not necessarily
go to the next Planning Commission meeting or to to
volunteer for a political campaign.
It may be volunteering at your local home shelter.
It it may be bringing a, a topicabout public education to your
church, right. I mean, there are ways in which
people can contribute to a healthy Civic Society and civil
(27:45):
discourse without necessarily becoming political junkies or or
having to run for office. But that's everyone's
responsibility. We care a lot about our rights
in the society. We need to be caring about our
responsibilities not only for ourselves but for future
generations. I think it's really inspiring
for me and I'm sure will be inspiring for a lot of other
people. And one of the things that I
(28:07):
find so refreshing and speaking to you and thinking about your
career as well as you've been city government, local
government for, you know, like you're saying, nearly 40 years
for for forever. And you've at almost every stage
you can look back and track someof that issues you were
advocating for. You've always been on the
cutting edge, open innovation, open to thinking in a different
(28:28):
way about how cities operate andrun.
What are the lessons after, after nearly 40 years of working
in local government, about, you know, how do you get people to
think differently? Two things.
One is my secret advantage has always been not that I was
smarter than other people, because that's literally not
true. I I've gained enormously from
(28:48):
people who are smarter than me, both as colleagues and as as
role models and inspirations. But I deeply believe in this
idea that the future is already here.
It's just unevenly distributed. So most of my colleagues in, in
local government, whether elected or staff, focus on local
government and their expert in the realm of local government.
(29:10):
I've, I've always been Catholic,small C in my taste.
I'm also a Catholic in my faith,but Catholic in the sense of
broad minded and universal. I, I, I pay attention to what's
going on in sports, what's goingon in entertainment, what's
going on in academia, what's going on in the media, what's
going on particularly in business in the private sector,
(29:30):
not just here in this country, but all over the world.
Because what's happening there will eventually what's happening
in local government. For example, I used to carry
around a Blockbuster card and say, you know, remember going to
Blockbuster. And of course, people, yeah, of
course I went to Blockbuster. Everyone went to Blockbuster.
It was the, it was the, the way you got movies unless you went
to the theater and it brought, brought movies in people's
(29:53):
homes. And they were the best in the
world at the business they thought they were in.
They thought they were in the video rental business and they
were the best in the world at renting videos.
Netflix knew that they were in the content delivery business
and so they wiped out Blockbuster because Blockbuster
(30:17):
made the same mistake that travel agents made that
newspapers made that that many the new encyclopedias made is
they thought they were, you know, newspapers thought they
were in the business of providing news and on paper and
it turned out that people get their news in other ways.
(30:38):
Travel agents thought they they were in the business of helping
people travel by booking their hotels and their airlines.
And now people book their hotelsand their airlines by themselves
and put travel agents out of business.
You can go on and on. My point is that if you pay
attention to what's going on in the rest of the world, it
eventually comes over to affect local government.
(30:59):
And I think the, the myopia has is always that, well, local
governments special because, youknow, of course people are
always going to need a fire department.
They're always going to need public libraries.
They're always that not true. Right out of, out of the 10,000
years of, of, of urban history, public libraries and fire
(31:20):
departments are incredibly new innovations that were created
for the exact reason of dealing with a burgeoning industrial
society. And they were, they were
solutions to problems of 100 and150 years ago.
And they're not necessarily solutions to the problems of the
next 3050 years or maybe in the next 6 months in some cases.
(31:43):
The other lesson, though, besides just paying attention to
things beyond local government, the other lesson I think that's
that's important is to understand the dynamism of the
world we live in. Steve Wesley said this.
I don't think it's original withhim, but it's where I heard it.
He said this is the fastest thatchange has happened in human
(32:07):
history. You look at how far China has
come in 100 years. You look at what the the
smartphone has done to our livescompletely outdated how we date,
how we choose restaurants, how we pay our bills on and on.
This is the fastest that change has been occurring in human
(32:28):
history 300,000 years of home sapiens 10,000 years since the
Neolithic revolution. It's just, it's the, the speed
is mind numbing and what Wesley said and and we're living
through it is it's never been this, it's never going to be
this slow again, right, That thepace is continuing to
(32:48):
accelerate. And so my preoccupation, my
obsession, what, what whatever God gives me in the way of, of
breath and, and ability over thenext days, weeks, months, years,
is devoted to safeguarding the timeless things that are
(33:09):
important community, democracy, sustainability and adapting to
these Titanic dynamic changes. So we can protect community, we
can protect democracy, we can protect sustainability by
changing and adapting to changing times and, and keeping
(33:32):
these eternal basic values and, and assets that, that make life
worth living for, for human beings, without which I think
we'll live very lonely and miserable lives and, and, and
to, to safeguard them in the midst of, of drastic change.
(33:54):
And I think you have to fight for that every single day.
And that's what I try to devote my life to doing.
Thinking about how things are changing, how the future is
already here, just not evenly distributed.
What is the future of local government look like in your
opinion? How is it shifting after a
career spent, seen and evolved? I think it involves much more
(34:14):
partnership. We we there was a, you know, a
whole generation of public private partnerships and there's
some values to that. One of the first votes I cast
consequential as a as a young left wing council member was to
privatize the, the golf course in in Pasadena.
And some of my allies were were appalled.
Why would you do that? And, and we were, we were badly
(34:37):
managing a golf course and losing $250,000.
And by by having somebody who was more confident running a
golf course, we made $750,000. So it gave us $1,000,000.
We could actually devote to artsand libraries and other things
that that I wanted to invest in.So I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm
not ideologically driven. I used to have on my wall and
(35:01):
and in my office in Santa Monicaa quote in Chinese from Deng
Xiaoping. He said, I don't care if the cat
is black or white. What I care about is, does it
catch mice? Right.
So I think I continue to be up aggressive.
I continue to to believe fervently in that the role of
(35:24):
government in the public sector is to, is to particularly
safeguard the most vulnerable inour society that and that's
under increasing threat as our society becomes more unequal in
its distribution of wealth. But but for all that, what I'm
interested in is what works and,and, and what works is, is not
necessarily on the left or the right or the middle.
(35:47):
And, and, and often those labelsare irrelevant to, to what
works. Fiorello LaGuardia, the great
mayor of of New York, famously said there's no Republican or
Democratic way of picking up thegarbage.
So in that sense, the future of local government, I think is not
(36:08):
public private partnerships. That's an aspect I think we've
milked that for about as far as it's going to go.
And, but I think it's public public partnership.
It's actually partnering with the citizens of our community.
I just was reminded of this when, when I was on the council
(36:29):
the first time, there was a a frightening incident that
happened in in one of our parks,which was surrounded on four
sides by by residents. And what happened was there was
a a hold up of of a nanny and and some of of her charges.
And it was at gunpoint. And of course the neighborhood
(36:50):
just freaked out. And part of the reason that went
that happened was we had we had an old building that had been
damaged by fire that the city had not gotten around to
demolishing. And so people said, well, let's
demolish this building so that we can see into the park better.
(37:11):
So absolutely I went to the, youknow, I was versed in, in by
this time in in city finances. I went to the city manager.
Let's get it in capital program.Yes, we're going to do the
capital program. And then I came back to the
neighborhood and said, what's inthe capital program?
You know, your, your counselors delivered for you and they said,
well, when will it actually get done?
Well, of course we have to, you know, do the RFP and we have to
(37:34):
let out the contract and, you know, on and on.
And like it'd probably be a year.
And they said here, we want thisdone now.
And so I went to the city manager and I said, can you
don't ask the attorneys, just can you lend us a truck and some
saws and crowbars and, and shovels and, and surprisingly,
(37:55):
he said, sure. And so one Saturday, a truck
showed up and the neighbors gathered and we tore down this
building. It took us actually 2 Saturdays.
But then the neighborhoods like this is now our part.
Our literally our blood, sweat and tears are invested in this.
We treat government now like a vending machine, right?
You you put your money into thismysterious machinery and then
(38:18):
you expect it to deliver you Coke or a bag of potato chips
or, you know, a hot burrito or whatever.
And we have no idea how it works.
And we're always pissed off thatwe put money in and we don't get
what we want. Or, you know, the, the burrito
comes out cold or the Coke turnsout to be diet of an up.
And, and you know, we asked for a potato chip and nothing came
out. And, and when we're dissatisfied
(38:39):
with a vending machine, we, we shake it, you know, we kick it.
And that's what's happening withgovernment.
People are, are frustrated at putting money in and I'm not
getting what I want. You know, I put billions in and
we're not solely homelessness. And you know, I once made this
analogy in a in a rural audience.
And when the guy in the back said up here, we shoot it.
(39:01):
And you know, that's happening. It's happening not just here in
California and, and the country around the world, people are
dissatisfied because they don't understand this complicated
black box that's supposed to deliver what they want.
There's an earlier tradition in America from the frontier called
the barn raising, right where a family could not on its own
(39:25):
build a barn to keep its animalswarm in the winter and store
their their hay over the winter.And, and it it required on the
whole community kind of coming together and everybody having a
role. Somebody fried the chicken,
somebody said a prayer, somebodytook care of the kids.
Some people, you know, the brawnear ones, you know, actually did
the heavy lifting. The, the older ones knew how to,
(39:49):
you know, design and cut the thing and make it all work.
And then everybody had some sense of, of ownership just in
as in our barn de raising at thepark.
I think the future of local government is engaging people
not just in knowing better who to pick to vote.
But rather to actually be involved in some way that's
(40:10):
difficult at the at the scale of4 million.
But Mayor Bass is actually trying to pull this off.
She's, you know, in the face of of crippling cuts to city
services, she's asking people tocome out and help clean up their
neighborhoods. I think it's a little tone deaf
because it's it's being framed as let's get ready for the
Olympics. But you know, if that appeals to
(40:31):
people, great. But we we actually need to roll
up our sleeves and make local government local again and
rebuild the sense of community that these are our communities
and we need to work together to improve them.
My family has some Pennsylvania Dutch heritage, and so I grew up
with under a photo of a barn raising in one of our hallways.
(40:53):
So that popped into mind as you were describing tearing down
that building. So I love that analogy.
And then just to end, you know, the last question that I think
that alone what you just described is a very inspiring
vision of how the stake can go forward, but what what gives you
hope for the future of California?
Well, Pope Francis, who just left us said, and I'm
paraphrasing here, but he basically said, if you look at
history, there's no basis for optimism, right?
(41:16):
Things don't always turn out well.
In fact, sometimes they turn outhorrifically for extended
periods of time. But if you also look at history,
at, at the tremendous resilienceof human beings, that the
heroism of human beings, there'salways a basis for hope, right?
So I'm not particularly optimistic about Southern
(41:37):
California right at this moment,or our country for that matter,
but I'm deeply hopeful. And what gives me the most hope,
there are a lot of of, of thingsthat I see as positive.
But the thing that gives me mosthope is is young elected
officials like Kenneth Mejia, myboss, like Sasha Renee Perez,
(41:58):
our new state senator, like Isaac Bryant here in, in South
LA, like Alex Lee up in the Bay Area, Folks who are idealistic,
but also, I think deeply committed to actually
accomplishing making the world work better.
(42:19):
You know, like me when I was 29,they have a few things to learn.
Who doesn't? I'm still learning at 71.
But the fact that, A, they've put themselves out there to run
and B, they have triumphed over big money and, and special
(42:40):
interest and, and, and the machine of, of kind of permanent
government, I think gives me a great deal of hope.
And I, again, I don't think we're going to be rescued by, by
elected officials or as we call them, politicians, but we
absolutely need folks who can bring enlightened leadership to
(43:03):
our public institutions. And they won't like me, they
won't always make everyone happythat they will make their own
mistakes. I used to say as a city manager
that if I hit 350, you know, oneout of three, I would go to the
City Manager Hall of Fame because that's really a good
batting average. But that's what gives me hope is
(43:25):
that the people are willing to elect fresh faces and young
voices. And those fresh faces and young
voices I think have the potential to to do remarkable
things. And I'm doing everything I can
to to support them. And in Kenneth's case, he's
given me the honor of, of working.
(43:48):
I say for him, he always corrects me to say with him and
and to provide hopefully some value of experience.
But also I was inspired. I would not have run for for
City Council if I had not seen this, this spark because you
know, when you're elected at 29 people before you even take
office, people say, or you can run for next right?
(44:10):
Cuz certainly wouldn't be satisfied with running for City
Council next assembly and then state Senate and then Congress.
And pretty soon you begin to hear hail to the chief in your
ear. And and and then after I left
office, it's like, will you everrun again?
You know, I mean, you had a promising career.
And and my answer always was no,I would not run for Rick Cole
(44:33):
that has no interest in me. I've got blacks on my wall.
I, you know, my obituary, you know, is going to say I was
mayor of my hometown. But if I felt part of a movement
and I could contribute my experience to a movement, I do
feel that there's an incipient movement.
And yes, it's, you know, it's young progressives, but it's not
just young progressives. It's, it's young people who are
(44:55):
questioning the status quo, questioning the machine,
questioning the the way things have always been done.
And I think that's very hopeful.It's a great note to end on.
Rick, I really appreciate your time and I appreciate your 40
years of public service. I'm grateful to have people like
you in our controller's office, and I hope you have a great rest
(45:15):
of your day. Thank you for taking the time to
talk to me today. Jared, thank you for this
project. I hope it flourishes.
Thank you. Well, with the help of guests
like you, hopefully it will. Yeah.
Thanks, Rick. Take care.
(46:23):
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