August 25, 2025 • 47 mins
Five alive! But not the delicious soft drink of the 1980s. We're back for the first proper episode of series five with an exploration of Meat Loaf's sad origins. And really, they are sad. Poor bloke. But we still managed to find some fun in there, as we also get answers to the big questions. Questions like:
- Is there anything Michael Bay can't wedge an explosion into?
- Is there any song Jim Steinman can't wedge a vampire into?
- Is there any conversation Meat Loaf can't wedge a massive lie into?
PLUS we chat about early 2000s electro dance duo Moloko, learn what novelty pop hit will be torturing Emma this series and make a long-overdue correction to our Meat Loaf song rating system.
Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown
Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy.Music extracts on this episode:
Tear Me Down by Meat Loaf from the album Couldn't Have Said it Better (2003)
Objects in the Rear View Mirror by Meat Loaf from the album Bat out of Hell II: Back into Hell (1993)
Die Unstillbare Gier by Steve Barton from the Tanz der Vampire Original Cast Album (1997)
Confessions of a Vampire by Steve Barton from the Dance of the Vampires Original Cast Album (2003)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam (00:00):
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out of Hell, the podcast where we carve
ourselves a big old slice ofMeat Loaf with a side order of
Jim Steinman and smother it allin delicious A One Steak Sauce.
Sam (00:13):
that is appetizing.
Who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:16):
Meat Loaf was a singer, actor, writer, blah, blah, blah,
You know, all of that now he wasalso a guy who in his youth in
Texas, saw not one, but two guyslose ears in bar brawls.
Sam (00:28):
you know what Oscar Wilde would've said to see one
Emma (00:32):
see, one guy
Sam (00:33):
lose an ear in a bar brawl might be unfortunate,
Emma (00:36):
but to see two is careless.
Sam (00:39):
Sorry, do you have a question for me?
Emma (00:41):
Who's Jim Steinman?
Sam (00:42):
Jim Steinman was a man of whom Meat Loaf said.
Jim wasn't my friend, he was myother wife and I've always said,
"I'm Henry VIII, and he was AnneBoleyn"
Emma (00:52):
Wow.
I think
Sam (00:53):
meant that in a nice way.
Emma (00:56):
Oh, who are we?
Sam (00:58):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
Two comedians who love MeatLoaf, love Jim Steinman also
love doing homework.
Hence this podcast.
Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bownow now now
Emma (01:13):
Bing.
Sam (01:14):
We're back.
Yeah., It's series five.
Emma (01:17):
Series five.
Sam (01:18):
So Emma, what have you been up to in the mid series break?
Emma (01:21):
I've been watching Ghost
Sam (01:23):
Yeah.
of course.
Emma (01:24):
part of our homework, which took a lot of time.
I've been having COVID.
Yeah.
I've also been to a ukulelefestival.
Sam (01:30):
Oh, well that's nice.
Emma (01:31):
was lovely.
Yeah.
That was a lot of fun this year.
And I've been doing a lot ofmaking and doing, which is the
thing that I like to do when I'mnot doing this old shite..
Sam (01:41):
Yeah.
That's a very 1950s things tomake and do to
Emma (01:44):
make and do Yeah.
But my things to make and do areusually like crocheted animals
with arses and things like
Sam (01:49):
Yeah, that's true.
Things to make and do.
Wasn't that an album by Moloko?
Emma (01:53):
I think it might have been.
Moloko.
Gosh, they had a song, didn'tthey?
Sam (01:59):
Yeah.
Things to Make and Do, 2000studio album by Moloko, who...
didn't they also have an album.
Right.
Emma (02:07):
This is a rabbit hole.
We've accidentally fallen down.
Sam (02:10):
is, but this is our vibe, isn't it?
Oh, Emma.
Have a guess at This is an earlyquiz for you.
Which one of these is not astudio album by Moloko?
Do You Like My Tight Sweater?
I Am Not a Doctor or Statues.
Emma (02:26):
I'm, I'm gonna say statues is
Sam (02:27):
They all are.
They all are.
Yeah.
I can't ad lib a quiz thatquickly.
There you go.
Little Moloko facts.
Emma (02:34):
Wow.
I can't really remember much ofwhat Moloko did.
Sam (02:37):
Well, their first single was called Where is The What if,
The What ins?
I haven't had a stroke.
Where Is The What If, The WhatIs In Y?
You remember that one?
went to number 189 in Australia.
The big song was the Time is
Emma (02:56):
Now.
Yes.
Sam (02:57):
I'll sing it back.
Anyway.
This isn't a Moloko podcast.
sorry.
All you Moloko fans out there.
This is a Meat Loaf and JimSteinman podcast where we both
bring a Meat Loaf or JimSteinman song to our musical
dissection table to analyze inour own inimitably half-arsed
way, piggybacking off the backof other busier, more accurate
(03:21):
researchers, and then doing somejokes and that about it, calling
that a podcast.
Emma, what have you brought?
Emma (03:27):
I've brought track called Tear Me Down, which is from the
Couldn't Have Said it Betteralbum.
What have you brought?
Sam (03:32):
I've brought Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell Two.
Just to warn you that thisepisode does contain discussion
of childhood trauma.
So if that's not for you, that'sfine.
Don't listen to this one.
We'll see you on the next But weare gonna start with your one
this time, Emma, aren't we?
Emma (03:49):
Yes.
We thought we'd do a bit of adive into Meat Loaf's past We've
had a good old root aroundinside Jim's dirty sock drawer.
Sam (03:58):
Uh, But also, yes,
Emma (04:00):
he would have a dirty sock
Sam (04:01):
Li listen, I don't think anybody wants to spend any more
time thinking about the contentsof Jim Steinman's sock drawer.
Okay.
Emma (04:09):
When I said dirty
Sam (04:10):
drawer.
Stop it.
Emma (04:12):
Sorry.
I'm
Sam (04:13):
Oh, it's so crusty,
Emma (04:14):
Emma.
Is it full of dirty socks?
No.
Has
Sam (04:17):
drawer itself No.
Emma (04:20):
Or is it
Sam (04:20):
itself is festering and green, and if you were to poke
the wood, it would dissolve intopowder.
Emma (04:28):
Anyway, with, with
Sam (04:29):
socks all had holes in all of them, and he was one of those
men who never wears matchingsocks.
You'd have two different blacksocks from different packets.
So that one of them was actuallyvery, very, very, very, very
dark blue.
And the other was very, very,very, very dark brown.
And you could tell Jim,
Emma (04:48):
I'm very sorry to have put that picture in your head Sam
Sam (04:51):
Anyway, we're not talking about Jim Steinman's filthy sock
drawer today.
Emma.
What are we talking
Emma (04:56):
we're, We're having a route through Meat Loaf's, dirty
sock drawer instead.
I'm stuck on dirty sock drawers.
I can't get out.
It's awful.
We're gonna delve into MeatLoaf's Yeah.
And find out a little bit abouthis sort of pre-fame history.
Sam (05:10):
Yeah.
We know a fair amount by nowabout Jim Steinman's pre-fame
biography.
about time we gave Meat Loaf thesame treatment.
So yeah, that starts with TearMe Down.
So listeners, go away, find yourYouTubes or your Spotifys or
your accordions.
If you're a, an accomplishedaccordion player, you could get
the sheet music and play it toyourself.
(05:33):
Give that a go.
I'm gonna put a little shortclip in here and we'll see you
all after that.
Emma (05:51):
That was Tear Me Down from the, Couldn't Have Said it
Better album.
Sam, do you have any initialopinions?
Sam (05:57):
It was only three minutes long.
I'd only just started
Emma (05:59):
listening to it.
Yeah.
This is very much not a Steinmaneffort.
Sam (06:04):
It's not a Steinman.
I can see why you this for aLoaf biography day.
Because there is
Emma (06:09):
a tiny bit of
Sam (06:11):
a bit of biography shoved in there for no apparent reason.
As songs go, it's all right.
it's a little bit of a bop, butit's quite forgettable, I guess,
in Meat Loaf terms.
Emma (06:21):
Yeah.
It's not originally a Meat Loaf.
Sam (06:24):
Ooh.
Emma (06:25):
a different version of this song is the opening track
to Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
a guy called Stephen Trask wrotethe music and the lyrics for the
musical Hedwig and the AngryInch.
Trask is a fan of Meat Loaf andhas stated that Bat Out of Hell
was a huge part of hisadolescence.
So the song was actuallyrewritten by Stephen Trask.
(06:47):
Who said,"I've made lyricalchanges, so it's more
appropriate to Meat and lessappropriate to Hedwig." I've had
a look at both sets of lyrics.
And there are definitely plentyof differences I think it's
Sam (06:58):
well, I would assume so.
Yeah.
I have seen Hedwig and the AngryInch a long time ago.
Emma (07:02):
I haven't I'm not up on it as much.
Obviously I've been readingaround
Sam (07:06):
certainly the the protagonists of both are quite
different characters, fair tosay.
Emma (07:11):
The spoken word section in the original is about the Berlin
wall and its erection and laterdemolition,
Sam (07:22):
if I may, tee hee hee erection.
Emma (07:25):
Of course, always..
Sam (07:26):
And then that certainly explains the otherwise
completely nons, sequitous versethat comes after the spoken word
section in the Meat Loaf bit.
There ain't much differencebetween a bridge and a wall.
That makes sense if somebody hadjust been talking about walls.
Yeah.
As it is.
What, all right, fine.
Emma (07:43):
It doesn't,
Sam (07:44):
bit of architecture advice from Meat Loaf.
Emma (07:46):
Can't afford to rewrite the whole song.
Steven Trask is a busy man.
Yeah he's not gonna do the wholething, but he'll certainly do
bits of it.
"Song introduces Hedwig as aperson who has been just like
her hometown of Berlin split intwo.
Most obviously she's part maleand part female.
As the song progresses, we alsosee that she's a cross between
(08:06):
conquer and victims spiritualityand repugnance.
Accessibility and imprisonment"said Wikipedia.
As I say, I've not seen themusical, so I don't wanna
comment too much on it.
But I just thought it was aninteresting little crossover
that I wasn't expecting.
'Cause this was supposed to be,Meat Loaf History Week.
And instead it accidentallybecame Musical theatre Week.
Sam (08:26):
So 2003 Meat Loaf.
He's not quite descended intothe full angry, ranting old man
that we know and
Emma (08:34):
He's not gone full Trump
Sam (08:35):
Yeah.
Just interesting that a songfrom a avowedly gender queer
celebrating musical makes itonto his, isn't Yeah.
But
Emma (08:44):
then you think back to his past as well, being involved in
Rocky Horror.
Sam (08:47):
Oh, well, absolutely.
Yeah.
Emma (08:49):
so he wasn't always a...
a raving right winger.
Perhaps that's just what happenswith Age Awkward Face, Paul.
Sam (09:01):
Oh, cool.
All right.
Yeah I'm a bit more on boardwith it now.
Emma (09:04):
Yeah.
I thought that was reallyinteresting.
'cause as I say, the only reasonI picked it up at this stage was
because it had a teeny weeny bitof background in
Sam (09:12):
it.
Yeah.
Uh,
Emma (09:13):
Done over the top by a lady talking and that.
Sam (09:18):
a lady doing, who is the lady doing
Emma (09:19):
talking about?
I've just been trying to findthat out.
Sam (09:21):
Ah, yes.
It is often difficult to findout who the ladies are in Loaf
Steinman
Emma (09:27):
Yeah, There's a few potential contenders on the but
none of them listed for theright track, but that doesn't
mean anything'cause it's itcould be Giselda Vatcky or it
could be Tanja Reichert I don'tknow.
Sam (09:45):
Not to worry.
It is not your problem ifsomebody else hasn't credited
the right person.
Emma (09:50):
been trying to find things out about the song and nobody
gives a shit about it.
Sam (09:56):
Unsurprising, I suppose it's.
Emma (09:59):
It's just an album track.
Sam (10:00):
It's an album track from a,
Emma (10:02):
a mostly ignored
Sam (10:03):
Yeah.
Emma (10:05):
tellingly.
I had a look at the onlinecomments.
And there's bugger all.
Nobody has said anything
Sam (10:13):
Oh.
Just
Emma (10:14):
a few people going, oh, this came from Hedwig.
And that was about it really.
Nothing, not even on theofficial channels.
So it's not loved track.
But there are gonna be trackslike that.
Sam (10:24):
Yeah, it's fine.
Emma (10:25):
I have thought that this album suffers from, maybe that's
not the right term, has beeninflicted.
This album has some veryinteresting production
techniques for Meat Loaf bit atthe
Sam (10:37):
Yeah.
Can I just replay that?
Emma (10:38):
Yeah.
That is so early two thousands.
It hurts,
Sam (10:51):
It isn't it?
Talking of Moloko.
Emma (10:53):
Indeed.
There's a lot of that kind ofproduction on this album.
I think.
It was desperately trying to lMeat Loaf up to date, and I
don't know if that really
Sam (11:02):
Yeah.
For a man whose biggest successhas been very out of t certainly
his stuff with Jim has neverbeen fashionable.
And that was what was alwaysinteresting And then again, like
in the late eighties when he isadrift on his own and working
with various people,
Emma (11:16):
Yeah.
Making
Sam (11:18):
of leaning towards, popular styles forms of the time it
doesn't work.
So yeah.
Emma (11:24):
There are other bits like that to be found on that album
and also later albums as well.
We can look forward to somedistinctly new metal sounding
bits.
Ooh, yeah.
Sam (11:34):
Ooh.
Gird your loins, listeners shallwe talk about the biography bit
then?
Emma (11:42):
Yeah.
Sam (11:43):
That's the reason you brought this song we wanted to
delve into Meat Loaf's past abit and there's a big chunk of
Meat Loaf's past delivered.
Hamfistedly.
Emma (11:52):
the second part of the spoken word bit is, yeah,
everything from Texas is big,larger than life and non bigger
than little Marvin Aday so big,his daddy called him Meat Loaf.
He grew into a big man with abig voice and he sings big songs
and has big hits.
You can try and tear him down.
Sam (12:12):
Take that.
Emma (12:13):
Yeah.
My notes on this say, this feelslike a bit of a fighting back
song from the incredibly tediousstuff I've read in his
autobiography.
Meat Loaf seems to have feltlike he was constantly bouncing
back from setbacks, whether itwas fallouts with Jim or
management issues, or problemswith money.
There's always that feeling ofhaving to bounce back.
You can't tear him down'causehe's gonna come back with
(12:35):
another album whether you likeit or not.
It's quite a vitriolic.
Sam (12:40):
Yeah.
You've skipped over it, but thefirst part of the spoken word
section is a history of howTexas joined the union.
And obviously Meat Loaf is aproud Texan.
Yeehaw, et cetera.
Apologies to any Texanslistening.
Um, Texas is the best and it'smassive.
And we produced the bestmassivest musicest man in the
world.
Emma (13:01):
Marvin Aday.
Sam (13:02):
Marvin Aday.
Emma (13:03):
Interesting that his original name is used in this
rather than Michael.
Sam (13:07):
Yes.
So shall we get onto that rightnow and acknowledge a disservice
we've done to Meat Loaf, perhaps
Emma (13:14):
we we do we need to change the Meat Loaf
Sam (13:16):
don't know.
I was wondering about this.
So his birth name is Marvin, andthen his name legally becomes
Michael.
Yes.
But from, well, as soon as heenters performing he's Meat Loaf
to everyone.
Emma (13:27):
Do you know the story behind why he hated Marvin so
much?
Sam (13:30):
A bit.
But why don't you tell it?
Emma (13:32):
So Meat Loaf was a big old lad, right from being a kid.
This is a quote from hisautobiography he weighed 240
pounds in seventh grade, whichis age 12 to 13.
Sam (13:45):
What's that with Stones?
Okay, I'll do it Fuck me.
Sorry.
How old was he?
Emma (13:52):
12 and 13.
Sam (13:53):
17 Stone.
so the Dead Ringer movie wasbang on then,
Emma (13:59):
Two 40 pounds in seventh grade.
And people were not kind aboutit.
He said in his autobiography,"after we moved, I remember
going down the street to playwith this kid.
I was in sixth or seventh grade,'go away.' His mother yelled at
me,'you can't play with my son.
You are too fat.' Weird, huh"and then he says,"being too fat
(14:19):
to play with the other children.
I had to spend a lot of timealone, which probably has a lot
to do with the way I am today.
I'm usually alone in my hotelroom right after the show until
the next day's soundcheck.
And I'm never bored.
I don't get bored.
Probably because motherswouldn't let their kids play
with me"
Sam (14:35):
Oh, that's so sad.
Emma (14:37):
Yeah.
I really fucking hate
Sam (14:39):
that.
That's awful.
Hey, mothers of Texas.
Go fuck
Emma (14:43):
Yeah, it's hard enough being a fat person mm-hmm.
without having to put up withthe bullshit.
So I really, empathize there.
I think it's really shitty.
And there was, when he was a kidhe struggled to fit into blue
jeans, which of course wastrouser of choice for every kid.
(15:04):
And Levi's had an advertisingcampaign that stated"Poor fat
Marvin can't wear Levi's.
so Meat Loaf never wore Levi,even when he lost a load of
weight.
He always maintained that hewould never, ever buy Levi's
jeans.
So he'd wear Wrangler andanything else he could get his
hands on, but never, ever Levi'sand that's all part of why he
(15:26):
wanted to get rid of Marvin.
Sam (15:28):
Okay.
So what do we do, Emma?
We've done it by accident, butwe now know what we've done.
Emma (15:34):
Yeah.
And as somebody who hasexperienced an awful lot of fat
shaming, I don't know
Sam (15:39):
Yeah I think scale is Michael Lee Aday
Emma (15:41):
I think we should.
Sam (15:42):
Michael Lee a Day Yeah.
from the scale is now MichaelLee Day.
Emma (15:47):
Good.
Sam (15:48):
Yes.
That's the right thing to do.
It is.
I hadn't realized till we delveddeeper into his biography that
yeah.
The connotations of the
Emma (15:55):
Because of the Marvin, we're admitting our
Sam (15:57):
That's right.
That's what grown ups do.
Emma (16:00):
I've been working my way through bits of the
autobiography, and I'm not gonnalie, it's a slog.
It's not my favorite thing toread.
But I've been trying to dip inand out of it.
Meat Loaf was born on Septemberthe 27th, 1947 in Dallas, Texas
to school teacher mum WilmaHukel and former police officer
dad Orvis Aday.
(16:22):
Orvis had also served in WorldWar II and he started drinking
when he returned from war,became an alcoholic and a
salesman.
Sam (16:32):
You've gotta fund your alcoholism somehow.
Emma (16:34):
Absolutely.
Nice little fact here.
His mum and her sister, alongwith two other women, formed a
gospel quartet in their youngerdays called the Vo-di-o-do
Girls.
And Meat Loaf said that hismother had a really powerful
voice and as a group they'dappear on local radio
Sam (16:54):
Cool pieces like the Carter family,
Emma (16:55):
Yeah, I guess so.
They would've liked to have,taken it further and become
stars.
Mm-hmm.
But the religious nature theirfather meant that was never
gonna happen.
But yeah I'm guessing Meat Loafgot his singing talents from his
mum.
So that's, I thought that wasreally nice.
It's nice to put something nicein, isn't
Sam (17:15):
it?
It's
Emma (17:16):
nice because the rest of
Sam (17:16):
things.
Grim.
Yeah.
Emma (17:17):
Grim.
Sam (17:19):
Speaking of grim,
Emma (17:21):
indeed, speaking of grim.
His dad's alcoholism is a realfocal point his childhood.
His mother would drive aroundtown looking for his dad when he
was off on a bender'cause hewasn't a man to drink at home.
He liked to go out and gomissing for long periods of
time.
So age like eight or nine MeatLoaf would end up going into the
bars to look for his dad on hismum's behalf.
(17:44):
And he said,"I think it was atthose moments that my career as
an actor began, I remember veryclearly copping an attitude as I
was about to go into a bar.
Brave as I appeared to be.
I was absolutely terrified if Ideveloped my acting skills
anywhere it was there." So he'dgo into bars to try and drag his
drunk old dad home.
(18:05):
That's awful.
That's so sad.
So sad.
His mum, who I think was thesort of, kind light in his life
died in 1967 when he wasnineteen and in his
autobiography describes runningaway to LA when she was ill then
being sought out by the policewhen she died.
(18:25):
they were looking could pass onthe news.
Yeah.
Then he returned home to Texas.
And this is all taken directlyfrom his autobiography.
One night, shortly after thefuneral, I was sitting in my
parents' house with BillySlocum.
Just hanging out at the diningroom table.
In walks my dad and he's drunk.
(18:46):
Violent.
'Get all these whores out ofhere,' he's screaming.
Of course there's nobody in thehouse, but me and Billy.
Billy got up.
He could see my dad was out hismind.
Under my breath, I said,'Billy,you better get out of here.' I
jumped up.
I went into my bedroom and shutthe door.
"The next thing I know, myfather's standing in the doorway
with a butcher knife in hishand.
(19:06):
His eyes are blank as if he'dbeen hypnotized.
I knew he was very disturbed.
So my first thought was,'oh myGod, he's going to kill
himself.' But when he walkedtowards me and raised the knife
above his head, it took a splitsecond for me to realize,'God,
he's gonna kill me'.
I backed up as he came towardsme tripping and falling backward
(19:27):
onto the bed.
In a panic, I realized there wasno way out.
The bed was against the wall.
He put both hands on the handleof the knife and brought it
down.
As I rolled to the end of thebed and dropped to the floor, I
could hear the knife rippingthrough the bedding into the
mattress.
I looked up at him.
There was no one there behindhis eyes.
Believe it or not.
Dad was bigger than me andstronger.
(19:49):
He could always throw me around.
When I was about 12, he threw methrough a screen door.
He just picked me up and threwme right through.
When he put the knife into thatbed, he was really trying to
kill me.
"To him, the screen doorincident was just good, clean,
fun.
I crouched by the bed.
It was a moment of pureterror...
I was trapped.
With some kind of crazy energy Ijust lunged at him.
(20:11):
He stumbled into the dresser...
We had this huge fight thatended up in the living room...
he threw me across the livingroom, and I crashed into a lamp.
I got up and he was still comingat me.
I hit him in the face.
He lost his balance, wenttumbling back across a barrel
type chair...
"he didn't get up right away,and I just ran straight outta
the house.
Why he tried to kill me, I don'tknow.
(20:32):
Maybe he was feeling guiltyabout my mother and I looked
like her.
As soon as I got out of thedoor, the full horror struck me.
My own father had tried to killme, not my father didn't love
me.
He actually wanted me dead.
I went out the front door andnever came back.
I walked over to Billy's houseand called my Aunt Mary and that
was it.
I never looked back."
Sam (20:54):
That's heavy stuff.Really heavy stuff.
It's heavy.
Welcome to the cheery fun Funpodcast.
Oh yeah.
Emma (21:01):
That's gotta fuck you up,
Sam (21:02):
That's gotta fuck you up, but it is to Meat Loaf's credit.
from all accounts, he is a veryloving family man.
Yes.
And to have grown up in thatsort of environment and been
able to come out of it, decidingI'm gonna be an amazing dad and
his girls are, speakparticularly highly of him Yeah.
As a father.
So good on him for getting pastthat horrible start.
(21:22):
It
Emma (21:23):
It is just horrific.
and yeah, really sad.
But you know, he went on to be amegastar.
Sam (21:32):
went, on to be a megastar.
so fuck you here's one thing Iwanna bring up, which is
mentioned in the song.
'Cause I've heard two versionsof this, The song says his
father gave him the nicknameMeat Loaf Meat has also said
that he was given the nicknameLoaf by a high school football
coach.
Emma (21:51):
I've got this somewhere.
Hang on a so again, this is fromhis autobiography, which is
proving useful for the firsttime.
Sam (21:59):
Do you know?
Yes.
That was another thought I hadactually, gosh, we've skimmed
over his autobiography on justabout everything.
He's written some heartfeltstuff about his early life and
the rest of it's just like, ohthe, the guitarist did a load of
drugs.
And have an no d fuck him.
Emma (22:15):
Yes.
This bit of the autobiography isgenuinely quite interesting and
poignant at times.
I've told a lot of stories abouthow I got the About how football
coaches and other kids called methat.
How I made a bet with some kidin high school that I would let
my head get run over by aVolkswagen.
And after I'd done it, this kidsaid,' you're as dumb as a hunk
of Meat Loaf'.
(22:36):
Or there's the one about thecoach who said,'get off my
football team, you, big hunk ofMeat Loaf.' All that actually
did happen, but they didn't comeup with the name.
Leave it to my dad to do that.
He called me Meat Loaf almostfrom the time my mother brought
me home.
Sam (22:53):
Well, what's an unpleasant thing to call your own ch...
The more I hear about this dad,the less I like him.
Emma,
Emma (23:00):
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of all
Sam (23:02):
of father a day.
Orvis I have something funny tosay.
Run over by a Volkswagen.
Oh, his friend bet him that hecouldn't get his head run over
by a Volkswagen.
And he went, yeah, all right.
Emma (23:17):
This is a guy that had at least 17 concussions throughout
his life
Sam (23:22):
and a Volkswagen on his head.
Apparently.
Emma (23:25):
Maybe they were lighter back then.
I can't even imagine it
Sam (23:31):
because it's impossible.
Emma.
Emma (23:33):
Yeah, I like We know that Meat Loaf and Jim both talk a
load of
Sam (23:37):
bullshit There's a lot of self mythologizing in all of
this.
I'm taking everything about hisrelationship with his father at
face value.
But you did not get your headrun over by any form of
Volkswagen, Meat
Emma (23:49):
I can't help but imagine it being a Beetle
Sam (23:52):
Yeah, me too.
Emma (23:54):
I think it's time we rate this one.
Sam (23:56):
Is it?
Emma (23:57):
Cool.
Okay.
Sam (23:57):
We've been on a journey.
Emma (23:58):
We have.
Sam (23:59):
It's not really Meat Loaf's best work.
It's interesting that we'velearned a bit about his Texan
roots and the tragic backstory,but it doesn't make the song any
better, does it?
Emma (24:09):
Well, the song doesn't really touch on the backstory.
Sam (24:12):
No.
The monologue that he wedged inthe middle does.
But vaguely.
So yeah.
Let's, dust off our brandspanking new Meat Loaf song
rating scale, which runs fromMichael Lee Aday at the top down
to Michael Lee Okay in themiddle, all the down to Michael
Lee No Way at the bottom.
Emma, what is this?
It's an Okay.
(24:33):
It's an Okay.
Isn't, it's fine.
It's not offensive.
No, it's just a, it's just, It'sa genre transposed song, which
is all right, but works betterin the hands of a stage musical
about a queer
Emma (24:44):
Yeah.
Sam (24:45):
This is a Michael Lee Okay.
It's all right.
It's
Emma (24:51):
So Sam, what have you brought?
Sam (24:53):
I've brought Objects In the Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell II.
This was a Jim Steinman.
It does have a music video, I'msorry to tell you, it's another
music video directed by MichaelBay.
Emma (25:08):
Oh,
Sam (25:09):
but that said, we should watch it anyway, Emma.
So listeners, if you do, thevideo is quite instructive in
some of the stuff I'm gonna talkabout.
So if you can bear to watch 10minutes of Michael Bay, please
do otherwise find it on YouTubesor Spotifys or written on the
subway wall.
That's a Simon and Garfunkel Seeyou all in a few minutes.
Soundtrack (25:30):
When the sun descended and the night arose, I
heard my father cursing.
Everyone knows he was dangerousand drunk.
Defeated and corroded by failureand envy and hate.
Sam (25:45):
So that was, Objects In The Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell II.
Emma.
I know we both love it, but Ohyeah.
Tell us what you think.
Emma (25:56):
What a banger.
Sam (25:57):
Well, it's brilliant.
It's not a banger
Emma (25:59):
No, it's not a banger.
You gonna struggle to dance tothat one aren't you?
If you're not a psychopath.
Sam (26:05):
Yes.
Emma (26:07):
It's a brilliant song.
It's a classic Jim.
Sam (26:10):
Is it a classic
Emma (26:11):
Well, there are several acts.
Got a lot of drama to It
Sam (26:16):
It plays with a common phrase.
Emma (26:19):
Yes.
Some banging piano.
Sam (26:21):
there is some banging piano.
Bill Payne on the piano.
Okay.
I think that might be a firstfor Bill Payne.
A first shout out for Bill onthis podcast.
And sorry Bill, we don't havetime to learn who you are today.
I promise.
We'll check in another time.
But Jim definitely will havewritten that piano part.
he is a marvelous pianist as weknow.
Yes.
(26:42):
But.
It's unusually retrospective forJim.
most of his songs, pretty muchall of his songs bar this one
are about living in the momentand living today while you are
young.
Let's go party, et cetera.
So, there are very few songsabout, particularly from men,
about past trauma and its impacton your current life.
(27:06):
And this is one of them.
And it's really good.
It
Emma (27:10):
is really good.
That middle section so powerful,and heartbreaking.
Sam (27:16):
Yeah.
shall I run through for peoplewho couldn't be bothered to
listen?
It's okay.
I don't
Emma (27:20):
mind.
Sam (27:21):
This is released April of 1984.
This was the third single fromthe album Bat out of Hell II.
It got to number 38 in the USand number 26 in the UK.
Reviews mostly positive.
I will point out that Q Magazinecalled a"hopeless near
Springsteen parody." Dick's,
Emma (27:39):
yeah unnecessary.
Sam (27:41):
I mean the review is generally positive about the
album as a whole, but it's,even, without knowing the
backstory, which we will getinto on the face of it, I don't
think it comes across as parody.
It just comes across as a sad.
Story to be singing about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There we go.
Spin Magazine,"a traumatizedfamily chiller".
(28:01):
People said this was the album'shaunting centerpiece.
"Meat Loaf, who's now 46 singschillingly of how the ghosts of
youth pursue you, but remainjust out of reach when you look
over your shoulder".
And the BBC said this was a songabout"a melancholy middle-aged
man reminiscing about his youth.
In many ways, uncomfortablyclose home, dealing as it does
(28:22):
with episodes uncannily, similarto events in his own life" and
that is the first bit I willjust jump on.
Yeah.
So I, and you, and most of theworld has assumed that this has
been written specifically aboutMeat Loaf's life.
Meat Loaf tends to deny that.
Right.
Jim hasn't commented either waythat I could find Meat Loaf said
(28:43):
in an interview with the NewZealand magazine Investigate.
so the question was, is thisbased on your life?
Not a prayer, I wouldn't allowit.
That's like, if an artistpainted a picture of a place
he'd never seen before, that hecouldn't bring any truth to that
because he has no point ofreference.
No, he does have a point ofreference.
His truth is the point ofreferences and that's what the
point of reference is.
(29:04):
That's what any kind of artistendeavour should have is always
finding the truth." Now youmight ask Emma,"what?" And I
agree, but I think we have tofocus on the first chunk of that
sentence.
It's like if an artist painted apicture of a place he'd never
seen.
I think we're supposed to takeaway from this, that it isn't
about Meat Loaf's life, but itis perhaps inspired by Yeah.
(29:27):
Or about, sadly, a lot of peoplewill have had similar lives And
they're singing for all those Ido wonder, particularly in that
interview, if Meat Loaf being abit too defensive.
I've seen a quite a few reallylovely live performances He
always skips out the verse abouthis dad.
Emma (29:47):
Okay.
Sam (29:48):
Which is interesting.
And then the video itself isfilmed in Texas.
Which was a choice, I guess.
Yeah.
So it's not about Meat Loaf'slife, but it is about, but it's
relevant.
Yes, exactly.
It's relevant.
It's kicking up the kind offeelings Yeah.
(30:10):
We have no evidence either way.
If after he walked out on hisdad, Meat Loaf went and banged a
hot chick
Emma (30:17):
a car, In a car
Sam (30:19):
in a car
Emma (30:19):
I did make a note on that little section particularly the
video.
So when he said it was a MichaelBay I did wonder if there were
gonna be explosions and hedidn't let me down.
Tick.
They really made the most ofthat one explosion.
Sam (30:30):
Yes.
Emma (30:31):
I'm sure as many times from as many angles as possible.
But also I'm really glad thatyoung Meat Loaf and his lady
managed to find somewhere dry topark that convertible car before
they started shagging.
'cause it was raining quiteheavily in the background.
Sam (30:48):
Yeah.
But they had just had a hosepipe fight, so, you know, they
weren't bothered about that.
It is a three act structure.
The first act is about thesinger's childhood friend Kenny
who, dies tragically.
Emma (30:58):
I was very surprised.
Because I've not seen the videobefore until today, I have
always imagined that to be a carcrash.
Sam (31:05):
of course you did, Emma.
'Cause you are not insane.
Emma (31:08):
So the fact that it was like a crop duster plane.
Sam (31:11):
Did you see who Kenny's dad was played by?
No, that was Robert Patrick.
AKA, the T 1000.
Emma (31:17):
Oh my God.
Amazing
Sam (31:20):
Little cameo for Robert there.
And then the second verse iscovering the stuff we've already
talked about an abusive father.
And then verse three is a.
relationship with a sexy ladywho brings some sort of hope
into the young man's life andshe disappears and he goes out
into the world and there's thehaunting refrain that objects in
the rear view may appear closerthan they are.
(31:42):
And if life is just a highway,
Emma (31:44):
the soul is just a
Sam (31:46):
which is when written down utter horse shit Absolute
shites.
Emma (31:54):
But it's shite of the highest Jim level,
Sam (31:57):
It is, isn't it?
Somehow when Jim writes that anddelivers it through Meat Loaf,
you believe
Emma (32:04):
it.
Oh god.
It tears that middle versereally gets me.
Really
Sam (32:10):
yeah.
Music journalist, Mick Wall,we're gonna hear a lot from Mick
Wall, this series.
Okay.
He says"perhaps the most soberand reflective song Steinman has
ever written."
Emma (32:19):
Yeah.
Sam (32:20):
argument here.
Emma (32:20):
It's yeah, it's no Surf's Up is it?
Sam (32:23):
Well, The words the most could be replaced with the
Emma (32:26):
only Yes.
Sam (32:27):
Wall also does point out this song is about two best
friends who lose each othertragically.
And given this is, in theirreunion album.
Fair point on that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Anne Boleyn to his Henry theEighth.
In Jim's own words,"the hardestsong to write and get across was
the song Objects in the RearView Mirror May Appear Closer
(32:49):
Than They Are.
It was really gruesomely hard towrite.
In fact, it was the last song Iwrote for the record, which was
basically done.
The record label just wanted tostop.
"They wanted to put it out, andI insisted I really wanted to
write another song," classicJim,"and that was a really
emotional song to write.
It's a very passionate song.
It's really, I think, maybe themost passionate one on the
record.
(33:09):
I'm really proud of it becausethat's really one that goes over
the top in the sense that it'sgot images, it has religious
imagery of resurrection, it'sgot images of fertility and
rebirth.
It has really good sexualimages.
Images of cars, which I alwayslike." You had to ruin it.
Jim,
Emma (33:27):
why does he always ruin it?
Sam (33:29):
of course this song has done the rounds, it was in the
Bat out of Hell musical.
Where it gets utterly ruinedbecause the three verses get
split among different singerswho are each reminiscing about
their pasts.
So two of them sing abouthorrible dark pasts with dead
friends and abusive fathers.
And one of'em comes in and goes,I boned a girl.
Emma (33:50):
That was a high point in the musical, wasn't it?
Sam (33:53):
But it's also appeared in other musicals, Emma.
Yes.
to Jim's house of recycling.
Some of the melody you mighthave noticed is recycled from
Surf's Up.
then Jim later reuses the tuneon the Tanz der Vampire musical.
The original German song wascalled Die Unstillbare Gier or
(34:13):
the Unquenchable Greed.
Emma (34:16):
Crikey, that sounds like
Sam (34:18):
Have a listen.
that was Die Unstillbare Gier
Emma (34:38):
And what is that about?
Sam (34:39):
So it's a vampire.
He's using the same structure,so it's a vampire reminiscing
about different times in hispast.
Okay.
Across hundreds of years.
I quite like what he does withit.
He's remembering different womenover the centuries that he's
corrupted and ruined because ofhis unquenchable vampire greed.
Okay.
The singer on that recording'sbrilliant.
(34:59):
He's got a heck of a voice onhim and it's a really operatic
piece becomes a massivelyoperatic piece.
But then when the musicaltranslated to the US in English
the song title becameConfessions of a Vampire
Emma (35:11):
Okay.
Soundtrack (35:12):
She never knew my soul was cursed for good.
I fought to overcome my thirst,I thought I could, but when I
kissed her lips then I had nocontrol.
And the furies all ran wild..
Sam (35:29):
I wanna come back Tanz der Vampire in the future.
Jim didn't do the lyrics in theoriginal German but I suspect he
had more of a hand in thetranslation into English, which
was famously unsuccessful.
But yeah, Jim goes and takesthis very relatable, very
heartbreaking song and shoves itin his vampire musical.
Emma (35:50):
I imagine Jim taking like his masterpieces regularly and
running them through his Vampiremachine.
Sam (35:59):
My Vampire machine.
Vampire from Ghost Wars, seasontwo.
I'm gonna send you a link.
this is the cover art to thesingle which I would like you to
look at.
We've just been talking about avery moving heartbreaking song
about real trauma and real pain.
(36:20):
And this is the art they choseto use to sell it.
Emma (36:29):
Why
Sam (36:30):
Emma, tell the listeners what you're looking at there.
Emma (36:32):
So what I'm looking at here is some terrible nineties
montage art.
it's all sort of shades of greenand black.
On the right hand side, thereseems to be a hooded figure
showing its skeletal ribcageoff.
Sam (36:47):
That's Death flashing you, isn't it?
Death Death is literally holdingup his shirt, showing off his
Emma (36:52):
nail polish on.
Sam (36:54):
Yeah, that looks to be red nail.
Is it, blood?
Emma (36:59):
Maybe.
And then there's some sort ofbeast at a window.
Sam (37:02):
There's a monster at a window, and there's another
monster down at Death's feet.
Bit weird.
Emma (37:07):
bold
Sam (37:08):
Yeah.
That was by the artist MichaelWheelan, who also did the cover
out to the album.
Emma (37:12):
Okay.
Sam (37:13):
Which we've not yet discussed, but you know, you've
all seen it.
Emma (37:16):
Yeah,
Sam (37:17):
I guess they paid Michael Wheelan for three pieces of art
and they're using three piecesof art.
Emma (37:22):
goddammit.
Doesn't fit with the song atall, but also
Sam (37:27):
very strange.
Emma (37:29):
Wow.
Thank you for sharing thatlittle
Sam (37:31):
You're welcome.
Emma, would you like a quiz?
Emma (37:33):
Yes.
She said, wondering what thisseason's
Sam (37:38):
a quiz, isn't it?
It's a quiz.
Emma (37:39):
Wonder what this series's torture's going to be
Sam (37:41):
Here's three facts.
Which of them is true?
This song holds the record forlongest song title without any
brackets to ever appear in theUK top 40.
Okay.
B.
This song was bumped from itshighest point in the charts by
Babe by Take That C.
famous car addict, farmer(fortax avoidance purposes) Jeremy
(38:03):
Clarkson unexpectedly has a bitpart in the video for
Emma (38:09):
I think the truth is the length of the song title
Sam (38:13):
One nil to you.
Yes.
Emma (38:14):
Yes.
Sam (38:15):
This is the longest song title that doesn't have Yeah.
That ever appears in the UK.
Top 40.
The longest song title withbrackets is a song by the Faces
slash Rod Stewart in 1974.
And it's called, You Can Make MeDance, Sing or Anything open
brackets, even Take the Dog fora Walk.
Mend a Fuse, fold Away theIroning Board or any other
Domestic Shortcomings closebrackets.
Emma (38:36):
Wow.
Sam (38:36):
Any thoughts on what the other two might have been about
Emma?
Emma (38:39):
Not a clue.
Come on.
Okay.
Sam (38:40):
The song was bumped from its highest point in the charts
by Babe by Take That.
So that's not true of this song.
But it is true of the song Mr.
Blobby performed by noveltychildren's character, Mr.
Blobby.
Okay.
From the album Mr.
Blobby.
Emma (38:55):
Yep.
Sam (38:56):
Yeah.
However, Mr.
Blobby himself did shift, I'd DoAnything for Love from the top.
Emma (39:02):
Yes he did.
I remember this happening.
And being mortified.
Sam (39:06):
Your two favorite acts, battling.
and Jeremy Clarkson was in theMr.
Blobby video.
Of course
Emma (39:12):
he
Sam (39:12):
was.
Yeah.
Emma (39:13):
Is it gonna be Mr.
Blobby then?
Sam (39:15):
I regret to tell you it's the Mr.
Blobby single this time.
Emma (39:18):
Oh no.
Sam (39:20):
It's funny how he makes us understand
Emma (39:22):
his influence has spread throughout the land.
Sam (39:24):
Indeed.
Sorry, Americans.
Emma (39:28):
Yeah.
Americans.
Look that one up.
Sam (39:29):
Or indeed, British people under the age of 38.
What would you like to hear whatthe people of the internet
think?.
As you might imagine, this videohas so many comments of people
remembering childhood traumasand long lost loved ones and
sharing grief.
Yeah.
And almost all of the repliesare people offering solace to
their fellow man across theinternet, which is wonderful.
(39:50):
It's wonderful.
They're all reaching out handacross time
Emma (39:52):
and space.
I'm sensing a however,
Sam (39:55):
Luckily, though there are some people who've really let
the side down.
So let's start with this commentis fine.
It's from ZA tennis fan, Bat Outof Hell.
Quite simply, one of thegreatest albums of all time.
There is not one weak track onthat record.
It is a work of the most sublimegenius from beginning to end.
(40:15):
Reply from at TheFonzKiss.
This isn't even from that
Emma (40:18):
album noob..
Brilliant.
No.
Sam (40:23):
And then in the midst of all the people reminiscing about
their lost loves at BalooUrizasaid the airport in question
here has the FAA ID of three XSzero if you want to see it.
Emma (40:36):
Nerd, I like that you did your best nerd voice
Sam (40:40):
well.
Thank
Emma (40:41):
you,
Sam (40:41):
Emma.
I have seen three differentairports on
Emma (40:45):
this
Sam (40:46):
and then I do have some Meat Loaf memories scattered
around.
Meat Loaf memories.
just reminded me that one of thereasons I think we both like
Objects in the Rear View Mirroris'cause we can actually sing it
in our registers.
Emma (41:01):
Yes.
Sam (41:03):
Doesn't, a lot of rage to it compared to most
Emma (41:05):
Steinman Loaf Yeah.
We could belt this one outreally
Sam (41:08):
Yeah.
Anyway at RailYardProductions,my wife and I met him on his
bus.
He came up from the back wearinga pink bunny pajamas, like the
ones in A Christmas Story, restin peace Meat.
It's a long time since I've seena Christmas Story.
Do you remember the pink bunnypajamas?
Emma (41:25):
I don't, but I love the idea of Especially on Meat Loaf
Sam (41:29):
in my head.
I've just added some bunnyslippers as well.
Yes, of course.
Yeah.
And at Mark Richie 49 68, I methim in Glasgow about 94, when I
was in school.
He had a concert on.
My wee bro banged a window inthe SECC foyer and he opened the
blinds and tried to talk to usthrough the glass.
Then a crowd gathered and ruinedit.
Security dragged him off."
Emma (41:49):
Aw,
Sam (41:50):
Yeah.
I like dragged him off though.
Emma (41:54):
It dragged him
Sam (41:55):
off.
Emma (41:55):
not the fans.
It's not the crowd.
Him.
Sam (41:57):
the easiest way to solve this problem
Emma (41:59):
to remove Meat Loaf from the
Sam (42:01):
There you go a couple of lovely Meat Loaf memories, A few
facts
Emma (42:04):
They're nice.
Sam (42:05):
They're nice.
It's time to rate this song.
It is this is a Jim Steinmanwritten song.
So we are breaking out the JimSteinman scale for the first
time this series, as though weneed the end of it.
But we start at the top with JimSteinman In the middle we go for
Jim Fineman and all the way downat the bottom, it's a Jim
Declineman.
Emma, what's this?
Emma (42:24):
It's probably just a Jim Fineman.
I'm kidding.
It's
Sam (42:27):
a Jim Steinman, but in a sadder, more melancholy tone of
voice.
Emma (42:33):
Yes.
It's a Jim Steinman.
A Jim Steinman.
Sam (42:39):
Jim Steinman.
Jim It's a Jim Steinman.
It is a Jim, no, not that's myother podcast.
Emma (42:59):
Good.
Sam (43:00):
So that was our songs this episode.
Emma (43:02):
We're
Sam (43:02):
back listeners.
I hope to edit it down, but Ithink we'll both agree, it's
been a bit of a slog gettingback into game match.
Emma (43:12):
Fuck, we can't even talk about how shit we are
Sam (43:15):
that one.
Emma (43:15):
that
Sam (43:17):
but I'm really glad we're back doing this.
Yes, it's nice It's lovely,isn't it?
If you had opinions on thosesongs, if you'd like to disagree
with our ratings ratings and howdare you, you can drop us an
email, chat We have quite a fewemails that we've been accruing
lately we didn't do emails forthe past couple of episodes, so
shall we dive in Emma?
Yeah.
Emma (43:33):
that's
Sam (43:34):
RL Gray, lovely.
RL got in touch about Surf's Upslash Masculine a couple of
episodes ago.
I adore Surf's Up.
It is gorgeous and huge and dumbhorny, but what else do you want
from a Steinman song?
And Masculine is like that, butwithout the gorgeous, I still
think it's fun, though.
It works well in a workout mix.
I can see Masculine being in aworkout mix.
Emma (43:55):
Yeah.
Sam (43:56):
Right after Ravishing by Bonnie Tyler.
Emma (43:58):
Oh god.
This, not my workout mix,obviously.
Sam (44:01):
You can't have two sexy a workout mix.
Thinking about it
Emma (44:03):
do you know what has worked it's way into my, I say
workout mix.
It's my swimming Do you wannaknow what's worked its way in
there?
Sam (44:11):
Tell us Emma
Emma (44:12):
California Isn't Big Enough
Sam (44:14):
Yeah.
You're playing that all the timenow.
I love
Emma (44:17):
I
Sam (44:17):
it.
That's become your song forclosing out gigs to empty the
room.
Emma (44:21):
Quite good job.
Sam (44:23):
Chris Matts my friends have absolutely chastised me for
being a regular contributor to aMeat Loaf podcast, but I don't
care what they say'cause I knowI'm cool."
Emma (44:32):
You should hear what our friends have
Sam (44:33):
to say
Emma (44:34):
about it
Sam (44:35):
mostly.
Yeah.
I've not listened.
The perfect song for you guys tocover is One more Kiss from
Blind Before I Stop.
There are so many thingshappening in this song," I don't
know it yet.
Um, Do I stick it on the list?
Thank you, Chris.
And if you've got a song you'dlike us to cover, do drop us a
line chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
And then this is David Gillespiewho wrote.
All right again, fellow youngpeople".
(44:58):
And David is the one whorecommended Mick Wall's book
Like A Bat Out of Hell.
Okay Um, so to quote David Mickis a legendary rock writer whose
career has spanned from the late1970s until the present day and
was a colleague and flatmate ofwriter Sandy Robertson, whose
reviews you have regularlyquoted.
Mick managed to piss off AxlRose enough to be included in
the lyrics to the song, Get InThe Ring off Use Your Illusion
(45:18):
2.
The book is rife with storiesabout both Meat Loaf and Jim
Steinman, and the Pandora's Boxchapter is a particular
highlight".
Boom.
that will be my go-to reference.
So yeah, thank you Dave.
And then we have an email fromCharlie Etheridge Nunn, whose
content I won't reveal, but itdoes pertain to our choices next
time.
Emma, what songs are we bringingnext time?
Emma (45:39):
So I'm gonna bring a time for Heroes, which was the theme
from the 1987 Special Olympicsthat Meat Loaf sang
Sam (45:46):
Lovely.
And because it's a hero themedepisode next time, Emma has
kindly allowed me to go back toBonnie Tyler.
So I'll be bringing Holding outfor a Hero from 1984 and we are
all gonna have an amazing time.
Oh yes.
Let us know your opinions onthose.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com If youcould keep giving us five stars
on your podcast listening app ofchoice, that would be lovely.
(46:06):
Recommend us generally to yourfriends.
If you're on a date or you'vejust joined a five a side
football team, tell everybodyabout us.
Let us know your general MeatLoaf thoughts and anecdotes.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingToe Jam and Earl on the Sega
Mega Drive or Sega Genesis toAmericans?
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com Emma, Ithink that's all of the
everything now.
(46:28):
Lovely.
Well, that's all of myeverything too.
We'll see you all again in twomore weeks' time for another
Chat Out of Hell.
Bye.
Emma (46:35):
bye.
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out of Hell, the podcast where we carve
ourselves a big old slice ofMeat Loaf with a side order of
Jim Steinman and smother it allin delicious A One Steak Sauce.
Sam (00:13):
that is appetizing.
Who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:16):
Meat Loaf was a singer, actor, writer, blah, blah, blah,
You know, all of that now he wasalso a guy who in his youth in
Texas, saw not one, but two guyslose ears in bar brawls.
Sam (00:28):
you know what Oscar Wilde would've said to see one
Emma (00:32):
see, one guy
Sam (00:33):
lose an ear in a bar brawl might be unfortunate,
Emma (00:36):
but to see two is careless.
Sam (00:39):
Sorry, do you have a question for me?
Emma (00:41):
Who's Jim Steinman?
Sam (00:42):
Jim Steinman was a man of whom Meat Loaf said.
Jim wasn't my friend, he was myother wife and I've always said,
"I'm Henry VIII, and he was AnneBoleyn"
Emma (00:52):
Wow.
I think
Sam (00:53):
meant that in a nice way.
Emma (00:56):
Oh, who are we?
Sam (00:58):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
Two comedians who love MeatLoaf, love Jim Steinman also
love doing homework.
Hence this podcast.
Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bownow now now
Emma (01:13):
Bing.
Sam (01:14):
We're back.
Yeah., It's series five.
Emma (01:17):
Series five.
Sam (01:18):
So Emma, what have you been up to in the mid series break?
Emma (01:21):
I've been watching Ghost
Sam (01:23):
Yeah.
of course.
Emma (01:24):
part of our homework, which took a lot of time.
I've been having COVID.
Yeah.
I've also been to a ukulelefestival.
Sam (01:30):
Oh, well that's nice.
Emma (01:31):
was lovely.
Yeah.
That was a lot of fun this year.
And I've been doing a lot ofmaking and doing, which is the
thing that I like to do when I'mnot doing this old shite..
Sam (01:41):
Yeah.
That's a very 1950s things tomake and do to
Emma (01:44):
make and do Yeah.
But my things to make and do areusually like crocheted animals
with arses and things like
Sam (01:49):
Yeah, that's true.
Things to make and do.
Wasn't that an album by Moloko?
Emma (01:53):
I think it might have been.
Moloko.
Gosh, they had a song, didn'tthey?
Sam (01:59):
Yeah.
Things to Make and Do, 2000studio album by Moloko, who...
didn't they also have an album.
Right.
Emma (02:07):
This is a rabbit hole.
We've accidentally fallen down.
Sam (02:10):
is, but this is our vibe, isn't it?
Oh, Emma.
Have a guess at This is an earlyquiz for you.
Which one of these is not astudio album by Moloko?
Do You Like My Tight Sweater?
I Am Not a Doctor or Statues.
Emma (02:26):
I'm, I'm gonna say statues is
Sam (02:27):
They all are.
They all are.
Yeah.
I can't ad lib a quiz thatquickly.
There you go.
Little Moloko facts.
Emma (02:34):
Wow.
I can't really remember much ofwhat Moloko did.
Sam (02:37):
Well, their first single was called Where is The What if,
The What ins?
I haven't had a stroke.
Where Is The What If, The WhatIs In Y?
You remember that one?
went to number 189 in Australia.
The big song was the Time is
Emma (02:56):
Now.
Yes.
Sam (02:57):
I'll sing it back.
Anyway.
This isn't a Moloko podcast.
sorry.
All you Moloko fans out there.
This is a Meat Loaf and JimSteinman podcast where we both
bring a Meat Loaf or JimSteinman song to our musical
dissection table to analyze inour own inimitably half-arsed
way, piggybacking off the backof other busier, more accurate
(03:21):
researchers, and then doing somejokes and that about it, calling
that a podcast.
Emma, what have you brought?
Emma (03:27):
I've brought track called Tear Me Down, which is from the
Couldn't Have Said it Betteralbum.
What have you brought?
Sam (03:32):
I've brought Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell Two.
Just to warn you that thisepisode does contain discussion
of childhood trauma.
So if that's not for you, that'sfine.
Don't listen to this one.
We'll see you on the next But weare gonna start with your one
this time, Emma, aren't we?
Emma (03:49):
Yes.
We thought we'd do a bit of adive into Meat Loaf's past We've
had a good old root aroundinside Jim's dirty sock drawer.
Sam (03:58):
Uh, But also, yes,
Emma (04:00):
he would have a dirty sock
Sam (04:01):
Li listen, I don't think anybody wants to spend any more
time thinking about the contentsof Jim Steinman's sock drawer.
Okay.
Emma (04:09):
When I said dirty
Sam (04:10):
drawer.
Stop it.
Emma (04:12):
Sorry.
I'm
Sam (04:13):
Oh, it's so crusty,
Emma (04:14):
Emma.
Is it full of dirty socks?
No.
Has
Sam (04:17):
drawer itself No.
Emma (04:20):
Or is it
Sam (04:20):
itself is festering and green, and if you were to poke
the wood, it would dissolve intopowder.
Emma (04:28):
Anyway, with, with
Sam (04:29):
socks all had holes in all of them, and he was one of those
men who never wears matchingsocks.
You'd have two different blacksocks from different packets.
So that one of them was actuallyvery, very, very, very, very
dark blue.
And the other was very, very,very, very dark brown.
And you could tell Jim,
Emma (04:48):
I'm very sorry to have put that picture in your head Sam
Sam (04:51):
Anyway, we're not talking about Jim Steinman's filthy sock
drawer today.
Emma.
What are we talking
Emma (04:56):
we're, We're having a route through Meat Loaf's, dirty
sock drawer instead.
I'm stuck on dirty sock drawers.
I can't get out.
It's awful.
We're gonna delve into MeatLoaf's Yeah.
And find out a little bit abouthis sort of pre-fame history.
Sam (05:10):
Yeah.
We know a fair amount by nowabout Jim Steinman's pre-fame
biography.
about time we gave Meat Loaf thesame treatment.
So yeah, that starts with TearMe Down.
So listeners, go away, find yourYouTubes or your Spotifys or
your accordions.
If you're a, an accomplishedaccordion player, you could get
the sheet music and play it toyourself.
(05:33):
Give that a go.
I'm gonna put a little shortclip in here and we'll see you
all after that.
Emma (05:51):
That was Tear Me Down from the, Couldn't Have Said it
Better album.
Sam, do you have any initialopinions?
Sam (05:57):
It was only three minutes long.
I'd only just started
Emma (05:59):
listening to it.
Yeah.
This is very much not a Steinmaneffort.
Sam (06:04):
It's not a Steinman.
I can see why you this for aLoaf biography day.
Because there is
Emma (06:09):
a tiny bit of
Sam (06:11):
a bit of biography shoved in there for no apparent reason.
As songs go, it's all right.
it's a little bit of a bop, butit's quite forgettable, I guess,
in Meat Loaf terms.
Emma (06:21):
Yeah.
It's not originally a Meat Loaf.
Sam (06:24):
Ooh.
Emma (06:25):
a different version of this song is the opening track
to Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
a guy called Stephen Trask wrotethe music and the lyrics for the
musical Hedwig and the AngryInch.
Trask is a fan of Meat Loaf andhas stated that Bat Out of Hell
was a huge part of hisadolescence.
So the song was actuallyrewritten by Stephen Trask.
(06:47):
Who said,"I've made lyricalchanges, so it's more
appropriate to Meat and lessappropriate to Hedwig." I've had
a look at both sets of lyrics.
And there are definitely plentyof differences I think it's
Sam (06:58):
well, I would assume so.
Yeah.
I have seen Hedwig and the AngryInch a long time ago.
Emma (07:02):
I haven't I'm not up on it as much.
Obviously I've been readingaround
Sam (07:06):
certainly the the protagonists of both are quite
different characters, fair tosay.
Emma (07:11):
The spoken word section in the original is about the Berlin
wall and its erection and laterdemolition,
Sam (07:22):
if I may, tee hee hee erection.
Emma (07:25):
Of course, always..
Sam (07:26):
And then that certainly explains the otherwise
completely nons, sequitous versethat comes after the spoken word
section in the Meat Loaf bit.
There ain't much differencebetween a bridge and a wall.
That makes sense if somebody hadjust been talking about walls.
Yeah.
As it is.
What, all right, fine.
Emma (07:43):
It doesn't,
Sam (07:44):
bit of architecture advice from Meat Loaf.
Emma (07:46):
Can't afford to rewrite the whole song.
Steven Trask is a busy man.
Yeah he's not gonna do the wholething, but he'll certainly do
bits of it.
"Song introduces Hedwig as aperson who has been just like
her hometown of Berlin split intwo.
Most obviously she's part maleand part female.
As the song progresses, we alsosee that she's a cross between
(08:06):
conquer and victims spiritualityand repugnance.
Accessibility and imprisonment"said Wikipedia.
As I say, I've not seen themusical, so I don't wanna
comment too much on it.
But I just thought it was aninteresting little crossover
that I wasn't expecting.
'Cause this was supposed to be,Meat Loaf History Week.
And instead it accidentallybecame Musical theatre Week.
Sam (08:26):
So 2003 Meat Loaf.
He's not quite descended intothe full angry, ranting old man
that we know and
Emma (08:34):
He's not gone full Trump
Sam (08:35):
Yeah.
Just interesting that a songfrom a avowedly gender queer
celebrating musical makes itonto his, isn't Yeah.
But
Emma (08:44):
then you think back to his past as well, being involved in
Rocky Horror.
Sam (08:47):
Oh, well, absolutely.
Yeah.
Emma (08:49):
so he wasn't always a...
a raving right winger.
Perhaps that's just what happenswith Age Awkward Face, Paul.
Sam (09:01):
Oh, cool.
All right.
Yeah I'm a bit more on boardwith it now.
Emma (09:04):
Yeah.
I thought that was reallyinteresting.
'cause as I say, the only reasonI picked it up at this stage was
because it had a teeny weeny bitof background in
Sam (09:12):
it.
Yeah.
Uh,
Emma (09:13):
Done over the top by a lady talking and that.
Sam (09:18):
a lady doing, who is the lady doing
Emma (09:19):
talking about?
I've just been trying to findthat out.
Sam (09:21):
Ah, yes.
It is often difficult to findout who the ladies are in Loaf
Steinman
Emma (09:27):
Yeah, There's a few potential contenders on the but
none of them listed for theright track, but that doesn't
mean anything'cause it's itcould be Giselda Vatcky or it
could be Tanja Reichert I don'tknow.
Sam (09:45):
Not to worry.
It is not your problem ifsomebody else hasn't credited
the right person.
Emma (09:50):
been trying to find things out about the song and nobody
gives a shit about it.
Sam (09:56):
Unsurprising, I suppose it's.
Emma (09:59):
It's just an album track.
Sam (10:00):
It's an album track from a,
Emma (10:02):
a mostly ignored
Sam (10:03):
Yeah.
Emma (10:05):
tellingly.
I had a look at the onlinecomments.
And there's bugger all.
Nobody has said anything
Sam (10:13):
Oh.
Just
Emma (10:14):
a few people going, oh, this came from Hedwig.
And that was about it really.
Nothing, not even on theofficial channels.
So it's not loved track.
But there are gonna be trackslike that.
Sam (10:24):
Yeah, it's fine.
Emma (10:25):
I have thought that this album suffers from, maybe that's
not the right term, has beeninflicted.
This album has some veryinteresting production
techniques for Meat Loaf bit atthe
Sam (10:37):
Yeah.
Can I just replay that?
Emma (10:38):
Yeah.
That is so early two thousands.
It hurts,
Sam (10:51):
It isn't it?
Talking of Moloko.
Emma (10:53):
Indeed.
There's a lot of that kind ofproduction on this album.
I think.
It was desperately trying to lMeat Loaf up to date, and I
don't know if that really
Sam (11:02):
Yeah.
For a man whose biggest successhas been very out of t certainly
his stuff with Jim has neverbeen fashionable.
And that was what was alwaysinteresting And then again, like
in the late eighties when he isadrift on his own and working
with various people,
Emma (11:16):
Yeah.
Making
Sam (11:18):
of leaning towards, popular styles forms of the time it
doesn't work.
So yeah.
Emma (11:24):
There are other bits like that to be found on that album
and also later albums as well.
We can look forward to somedistinctly new metal sounding
bits.
Ooh, yeah.
Sam (11:34):
Ooh.
Gird your loins, listeners shallwe talk about the biography bit
then?
Emma (11:42):
Yeah.
Sam (11:43):
That's the reason you brought this song we wanted to
delve into Meat Loaf's past abit and there's a big chunk of
Meat Loaf's past delivered.
Hamfistedly.
Emma (11:52):
the second part of the spoken word bit is, yeah,
everything from Texas is big,larger than life and non bigger
than little Marvin Aday so big,his daddy called him Meat Loaf.
He grew into a big man with abig voice and he sings big songs
and has big hits.
You can try and tear him down.
Sam (12:12):
Take that.
Emma (12:13):
Yeah.
My notes on this say, this feelslike a bit of a fighting back
song from the incredibly tediousstuff I've read in his
autobiography.
Meat Loaf seems to have feltlike he was constantly bouncing
back from setbacks, whether itwas fallouts with Jim or
management issues, or problemswith money.
There's always that feeling ofhaving to bounce back.
You can't tear him down'causehe's gonna come back with
(12:35):
another album whether you likeit or not.
It's quite a vitriolic.
Sam (12:40):
Yeah.
You've skipped over it, but thefirst part of the spoken word
section is a history of howTexas joined the union.
And obviously Meat Loaf is aproud Texan.
Yeehaw, et cetera.
Apologies to any Texanslistening.
Um, Texas is the best and it'smassive.
And we produced the bestmassivest musicest man in the
world.
Emma (13:01):
Marvin Aday.
Sam (13:02):
Marvin Aday.
Emma (13:03):
Interesting that his original name is used in this
rather than Michael.
Sam (13:07):
Yes.
So shall we get onto that rightnow and acknowledge a disservice
we've done to Meat Loaf, perhaps
Emma (13:14):
we we do we need to change the Meat Loaf
Sam (13:16):
don't know.
I was wondering about this.
So his birth name is Marvin, andthen his name legally becomes
Michael.
Yes.
But from, well, as soon as heenters performing he's Meat Loaf
to everyone.
Emma (13:27):
Do you know the story behind why he hated Marvin so
much?
Sam (13:30):
A bit.
But why don't you tell it?
Emma (13:32):
So Meat Loaf was a big old lad, right from being a kid.
This is a quote from hisautobiography he weighed 240
pounds in seventh grade, whichis age 12 to 13.
Sam (13:45):
What's that with Stones?
Okay, I'll do it Fuck me.
Sorry.
How old was he?
Emma (13:52):
12 and 13.
Sam (13:53):
17 Stone.
so the Dead Ringer movie wasbang on then,
Emma (13:59):
Two 40 pounds in seventh grade.
And people were not kind aboutit.
He said in his autobiography,"after we moved, I remember
going down the street to playwith this kid.
I was in sixth or seventh grade,'go away.' His mother yelled at
me,'you can't play with my son.
You are too fat.' Weird, huh"and then he says,"being too fat
(14:19):
to play with the other children.
I had to spend a lot of timealone, which probably has a lot
to do with the way I am today.
I'm usually alone in my hotelroom right after the show until
the next day's soundcheck.
And I'm never bored.
I don't get bored.
Probably because motherswouldn't let their kids play
with me"
Sam (14:35):
Oh, that's so sad.
Emma (14:37):
Yeah.
I really fucking hate
Sam (14:39):
that.
That's awful.
Hey, mothers of Texas.
Go fuck
Emma (14:43):
Yeah, it's hard enough being a fat person mm-hmm.
without having to put up withthe bullshit.
So I really, empathize there.
I think it's really shitty.
And there was, when he was a kidhe struggled to fit into blue
jeans, which of course wastrouser of choice for every kid.
(15:04):
And Levi's had an advertisingcampaign that stated"Poor fat
Marvin can't wear Levi's.
so Meat Loaf never wore Levi,even when he lost a load of
weight.
He always maintained that hewould never, ever buy Levi's
jeans.
So he'd wear Wrangler andanything else he could get his
hands on, but never, ever Levi'sand that's all part of why he
(15:26):
wanted to get rid of Marvin.
Sam (15:28):
Okay.
So what do we do, Emma?
We've done it by accident, butwe now know what we've done.
Emma (15:34):
Yeah.
And as somebody who hasexperienced an awful lot of fat
shaming, I don't know
Sam (15:39):
Yeah I think scale is Michael Lee Aday
Emma (15:41):
I think we should.
Sam (15:42):
Michael Lee a Day Yeah.
from the scale is now MichaelLee Day.
Emma (15:47):
Good.
Sam (15:48):
Yes.
That's the right thing to do.
It is.
I hadn't realized till we delveddeeper into his biography that
yeah.
The connotations of the
Emma (15:55):
Because of the Marvin, we're admitting our
Sam (15:57):
That's right.
That's what grown ups do.
Emma (16:00):
I've been working my way through bits of the
autobiography, and I'm not gonnalie, it's a slog.
It's not my favorite thing toread.
But I've been trying to dip inand out of it.
Meat Loaf was born on Septemberthe 27th, 1947 in Dallas, Texas
to school teacher mum WilmaHukel and former police officer
dad Orvis Aday.
(16:22):
Orvis had also served in WorldWar II and he started drinking
when he returned from war,became an alcoholic and a
salesman.
Sam (16:32):
You've gotta fund your alcoholism somehow.
Emma (16:34):
Absolutely.
Nice little fact here.
His mum and her sister, alongwith two other women, formed a
gospel quartet in their youngerdays called the Vo-di-o-do
Girls.
And Meat Loaf said that hismother had a really powerful
voice and as a group they'dappear on local radio
Sam (16:54):
Cool pieces like the Carter family,
Emma (16:55):
Yeah, I guess so.
They would've liked to have,taken it further and become
stars.
Mm-hmm.
But the religious nature theirfather meant that was never
gonna happen.
But yeah I'm guessing Meat Loafgot his singing talents from his
mum.
So that's, I thought that wasreally nice.
It's nice to put something nicein, isn't
Sam (17:15):
it?
It's
Emma (17:16):
nice because the rest of
Sam (17:16):
things.
Grim.
Yeah.
Emma (17:17):
Grim.
Sam (17:19):
Speaking of grim,
Emma (17:21):
indeed, speaking of grim.
His dad's alcoholism is a realfocal point his childhood.
His mother would drive aroundtown looking for his dad when he
was off on a bender'cause hewasn't a man to drink at home.
He liked to go out and gomissing for long periods of
time.
So age like eight or nine MeatLoaf would end up going into the
bars to look for his dad on hismum's behalf.
(17:44):
And he said,"I think it was atthose moments that my career as
an actor began, I remember veryclearly copping an attitude as I
was about to go into a bar.
Brave as I appeared to be.
I was absolutely terrified if Ideveloped my acting skills
anywhere it was there." So he'dgo into bars to try and drag his
drunk old dad home.
(18:05):
That's awful.
That's so sad.
So sad.
His mum, who I think was thesort of, kind light in his life
died in 1967 when he wasnineteen and in his
autobiography describes runningaway to LA when she was ill then
being sought out by the policewhen she died.
(18:25):
they were looking could pass onthe news.
Yeah.
Then he returned home to Texas.
And this is all taken directlyfrom his autobiography.
One night, shortly after thefuneral, I was sitting in my
parents' house with BillySlocum.
Just hanging out at the diningroom table.
In walks my dad and he's drunk.
(18:46):
Violent.
'Get all these whores out ofhere,' he's screaming.
Of course there's nobody in thehouse, but me and Billy.
Billy got up.
He could see my dad was out hismind.
Under my breath, I said,'Billy,you better get out of here.' I
jumped up.
I went into my bedroom and shutthe door.
"The next thing I know, myfather's standing in the doorway
with a butcher knife in hishand.
(19:06):
His eyes are blank as if he'dbeen hypnotized.
I knew he was very disturbed.
So my first thought was,'oh myGod, he's going to kill
himself.' But when he walkedtowards me and raised the knife
above his head, it took a splitsecond for me to realize,'God,
he's gonna kill me'.
I backed up as he came towardsme tripping and falling backward
(19:27):
onto the bed.
In a panic, I realized there wasno way out.
The bed was against the wall.
He put both hands on the handleof the knife and brought it
down.
As I rolled to the end of thebed and dropped to the floor, I
could hear the knife rippingthrough the bedding into the
mattress.
I looked up at him.
There was no one there behindhis eyes.
Believe it or not.
Dad was bigger than me andstronger.
(19:49):
He could always throw me around.
When I was about 12, he threw methrough a screen door.
He just picked me up and threwme right through.
When he put the knife into thatbed, he was really trying to
kill me.
"To him, the screen doorincident was just good, clean,
fun.
I crouched by the bed.
It was a moment of pureterror...
I was trapped.
With some kind of crazy energy Ijust lunged at him.
(20:11):
He stumbled into the dresser...
We had this huge fight thatended up in the living room...
he threw me across the livingroom, and I crashed into a lamp.
I got up and he was still comingat me.
I hit him in the face.
He lost his balance, wenttumbling back across a barrel
type chair...
"he didn't get up right away,and I just ran straight outta
the house.
Why he tried to kill me, I don'tknow.
(20:32):
Maybe he was feeling guiltyabout my mother and I looked
like her.
As soon as I got out of thedoor, the full horror struck me.
My own father had tried to killme, not my father didn't love
me.
He actually wanted me dead.
I went out the front door andnever came back.
I walked over to Billy's houseand called my Aunt Mary and that
was it.
I never looked back."
Sam (20:54):
That's heavy stuff.Really heavy stuff.
It's heavy.
Welcome to the cheery fun Funpodcast.
Oh yeah.
Emma (21:01):
That's gotta fuck you up,
Sam (21:02):
That's gotta fuck you up, but it is to Meat Loaf's credit.
from all accounts, he is a veryloving family man.
Yes.
And to have grown up in thatsort of environment and been
able to come out of it, decidingI'm gonna be an amazing dad and
his girls are, speakparticularly highly of him Yeah.
As a father.
So good on him for getting pastthat horrible start.
(21:22):
It
Emma (21:23):
It is just horrific.
and yeah, really sad.
But you know, he went on to be amegastar.
Sam (21:32):
went, on to be a megastar.
so fuck you here's one thing Iwanna bring up, which is
mentioned in the song.
'Cause I've heard two versionsof this, The song says his
father gave him the nicknameMeat Loaf Meat has also said
that he was given the nicknameLoaf by a high school football
coach.
Emma (21:51):
I've got this somewhere.
Hang on a so again, this is fromhis autobiography, which is
proving useful for the firsttime.
Sam (21:59):
Do you know?
Yes.
That was another thought I hadactually, gosh, we've skimmed
over his autobiography on justabout everything.
He's written some heartfeltstuff about his early life and
the rest of it's just like, ohthe, the guitarist did a load of
drugs.
And have an no d fuck him.
Emma (22:15):
Yes.
This bit of the autobiography isgenuinely quite interesting and
poignant at times.
I've told a lot of stories abouthow I got the About how football
coaches and other kids called methat.
How I made a bet with some kidin high school that I would let
my head get run over by aVolkswagen.
And after I'd done it, this kidsaid,' you're as dumb as a hunk
of Meat Loaf'.
(22:36):
Or there's the one about thecoach who said,'get off my
football team, you, big hunk ofMeat Loaf.' All that actually
did happen, but they didn't comeup with the name.
Leave it to my dad to do that.
He called me Meat Loaf almostfrom the time my mother brought
me home.
Sam (22:53):
Well, what's an unpleasant thing to call your own ch...
The more I hear about this dad,the less I like him.
Emma,
Emma (23:00):
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of all
Sam (23:02):
of father a day.
Orvis I have something funny tosay.
Run over by a Volkswagen.
Oh, his friend bet him that hecouldn't get his head run over
by a Volkswagen.
And he went, yeah, all right.
Emma (23:17):
This is a guy that had at least 17 concussions throughout
his life
Sam (23:22):
and a Volkswagen on his head.
Apparently.
Emma (23:25):
Maybe they were lighter back then.
I can't even imagine it
Sam (23:31):
because it's impossible.
Emma.
Emma (23:33):
Yeah, I like We know that Meat Loaf and Jim both talk a
load of
Sam (23:37):
bullshit There's a lot of self mythologizing in all of
this.
I'm taking everything about hisrelationship with his father at
face value.
But you did not get your headrun over by any form of
Volkswagen, Meat
Emma (23:49):
I can't help but imagine it being a Beetle
Sam (23:52):
Yeah, me too.
Emma (23:54):
I think it's time we rate this one.
Sam (23:56):
Is it?
Emma (23:57):
Cool.
Okay.
Sam (23:57):
We've been on a journey.
Emma (23:58):
We have.
Sam (23:59):
It's not really Meat Loaf's best work.
It's interesting that we'velearned a bit about his Texan
roots and the tragic backstory,but it doesn't make the song any
better, does it?
Emma (24:09):
Well, the song doesn't really touch on the backstory.
Sam (24:12):
No.
The monologue that he wedged inthe middle does.
But vaguely.
So yeah.
Let's, dust off our brandspanking new Meat Loaf song
rating scale, which runs fromMichael Lee Aday at the top down
to Michael Lee Okay in themiddle, all the down to Michael
Lee No Way at the bottom.
Emma, what is this?
It's an Okay.
(24:33):
It's an Okay.
Isn't, it's fine.
It's not offensive.
No, it's just a, it's just, It'sa genre transposed song, which
is all right, but works betterin the hands of a stage musical
about a queer
Emma (24:44):
Yeah.
Sam (24:45):
This is a Michael Lee Okay.
It's all right.
It's
Emma (24:51):
So Sam, what have you brought?
Sam (24:53):
I've brought Objects In the Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell II.
This was a Jim Steinman.
It does have a music video, I'msorry to tell you, it's another
music video directed by MichaelBay.
Emma (25:08):
Oh,
Sam (25:09):
but that said, we should watch it anyway, Emma.
So listeners, if you do, thevideo is quite instructive in
some of the stuff I'm gonna talkabout.
So if you can bear to watch 10minutes of Michael Bay, please
do otherwise find it on YouTubesor Spotifys or written on the
subway wall.
That's a Simon and Garfunkel Seeyou all in a few minutes.
Soundtrack (25:30):
When the sun descended and the night arose, I
heard my father cursing.
Everyone knows he was dangerousand drunk.
Defeated and corroded by failureand envy and hate.
Sam (25:45):
So that was, Objects In The Rear View Mirror May Appear
Closer Than They Are from thealbum Bat Out of Hell II.
Emma.
I know we both love it, but Ohyeah.
Tell us what you think.
Emma (25:56):
What a banger.
Sam (25:57):
Well, it's brilliant.
It's not a banger
Emma (25:59):
No, it's not a banger.
You gonna struggle to dance tothat one aren't you?
If you're not a psychopath.
Sam (26:05):
Yes.
Emma (26:07):
It's a brilliant song.
It's a classic Jim.
Sam (26:10):
Is it a classic
Emma (26:11):
Well, there are several acts.
Got a lot of drama to It
Sam (26:16):
It plays with a common phrase.
Emma (26:19):
Yes.
Some banging piano.
Sam (26:21):
there is some banging piano.
Bill Payne on the piano.
Okay.
I think that might be a firstfor Bill Payne.
A first shout out for Bill onthis podcast.
And sorry Bill, we don't havetime to learn who you are today.
I promise.
We'll check in another time.
But Jim definitely will havewritten that piano part.
he is a marvelous pianist as weknow.
Yes.
(26:42):
But.
It's unusually retrospective forJim.
most of his songs, pretty muchall of his songs bar this one
are about living in the momentand living today while you are
young.
Let's go party, et cetera.
So, there are very few songsabout, particularly from men,
about past trauma and its impacton your current life.
(27:06):
And this is one of them.
And it's really good.
It
Emma (27:10):
is really good.
That middle section so powerful,and heartbreaking.
Sam (27:16):
Yeah.
shall I run through for peoplewho couldn't be bothered to
listen?
It's okay.
I don't
Emma (27:20):
mind.
Sam (27:21):
This is released April of 1984.
This was the third single fromthe album Bat out of Hell II.
It got to number 38 in the USand number 26 in the UK.
Reviews mostly positive.
I will point out that Q Magazinecalled a"hopeless near
Springsteen parody." Dick's,
Emma (27:39):
yeah unnecessary.
Sam (27:41):
I mean the review is generally positive about the
album as a whole, but it's,even, without knowing the
backstory, which we will getinto on the face of it, I don't
think it comes across as parody.
It just comes across as a sad.
Story to be singing about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There we go.
Spin Magazine,"a traumatizedfamily chiller".
(28:01):
People said this was the album'shaunting centerpiece.
"Meat Loaf, who's now 46 singschillingly of how the ghosts of
youth pursue you, but remainjust out of reach when you look
over your shoulder".
And the BBC said this was a songabout"a melancholy middle-aged
man reminiscing about his youth.
In many ways, uncomfortablyclose home, dealing as it does
(28:22):
with episodes uncannily, similarto events in his own life" and
that is the first bit I willjust jump on.
Yeah.
So I, and you, and most of theworld has assumed that this has
been written specifically aboutMeat Loaf's life.
Meat Loaf tends to deny that.
Right.
Jim hasn't commented either waythat I could find Meat Loaf said
(28:43):
in an interview with the NewZealand magazine Investigate.
so the question was, is thisbased on your life?
Not a prayer, I wouldn't allowit.
That's like, if an artistpainted a picture of a place
he'd never seen before, that hecouldn't bring any truth to that
because he has no point ofreference.
No, he does have a point ofreference.
His truth is the point ofreferences and that's what the
point of reference is.
(29:04):
That's what any kind of artistendeavour should have is always
finding the truth." Now youmight ask Emma,"what?" And I
agree, but I think we have tofocus on the first chunk of that
sentence.
It's like if an artist painted apicture of a place he'd never
seen.
I think we're supposed to takeaway from this, that it isn't
about Meat Loaf's life, but itis perhaps inspired by Yeah.
(29:27):
Or about, sadly, a lot of peoplewill have had similar lives And
they're singing for all those Ido wonder, particularly in that
interview, if Meat Loaf being abit too defensive.
I've seen a quite a few reallylovely live performances He
always skips out the verse abouthis dad.
Emma (29:47):
Okay.
Sam (29:48):
Which is interesting.
And then the video itself isfilmed in Texas.
Which was a choice, I guess.
Yeah.
So it's not about Meat Loaf'slife, but it is about, but it's
relevant.
Yes, exactly.
It's relevant.
It's kicking up the kind offeelings Yeah.
(30:10):
We have no evidence either way.
If after he walked out on hisdad, Meat Loaf went and banged a
hot chick
Emma (30:17):
a car, In a car
Sam (30:19):
in a car
Emma (30:19):
I did make a note on that little section particularly the
video.
So when he said it was a MichaelBay I did wonder if there were
gonna be explosions and hedidn't let me down.
Tick.
They really made the most ofthat one explosion.
Sam (30:30):
Yes.
Emma (30:31):
I'm sure as many times from as many angles as possible.
But also I'm really glad thatyoung Meat Loaf and his lady
managed to find somewhere dry topark that convertible car before
they started shagging.
'cause it was raining quiteheavily in the background.
Sam (30:48):
Yeah.
But they had just had a hosepipe fight, so, you know, they
weren't bothered about that.
It is a three act structure.
The first act is about thesinger's childhood friend Kenny
who, dies tragically.
Emma (30:58):
I was very surprised.
Because I've not seen the videobefore until today, I have
always imagined that to be a carcrash.
Sam (31:05):
of course you did, Emma.
'Cause you are not insane.
Emma (31:08):
So the fact that it was like a crop duster plane.
Sam (31:11):
Did you see who Kenny's dad was played by?
No, that was Robert Patrick.
AKA, the T 1000.
Emma (31:17):
Oh my God.
Amazing
Sam (31:20):
Little cameo for Robert there.
And then the second verse iscovering the stuff we've already
talked about an abusive father.
And then verse three is a.
relationship with a sexy ladywho brings some sort of hope
into the young man's life andshe disappears and he goes out
into the world and there's thehaunting refrain that objects in
the rear view may appear closerthan they are.
(31:42):
And if life is just a highway,
Emma (31:44):
the soul is just a
Sam (31:46):
which is when written down utter horse shit Absolute
shites.
Emma (31:54):
But it's shite of the highest Jim level,
Sam (31:57):
It is, isn't it?
Somehow when Jim writes that anddelivers it through Meat Loaf,
you believe
Emma (32:04):
it.
Oh god.
It tears that middle versereally gets me.
Really
Sam (32:10):
yeah.
Music journalist, Mick Wall,we're gonna hear a lot from Mick
Wall, this series.
Okay.
He says"perhaps the most soberand reflective song Steinman has
ever written."
Emma (32:19):
Yeah.
Sam (32:20):
argument here.
Emma (32:20):
It's yeah, it's no Surf's Up is it?
Sam (32:23):
Well, The words the most could be replaced with the
Emma (32:26):
only Yes.
Sam (32:27):
Wall also does point out this song is about two best
friends who lose each othertragically.
And given this is, in theirreunion album.
Fair point on that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Anne Boleyn to his Henry theEighth.
In Jim's own words,"the hardestsong to write and get across was
the song Objects in the RearView Mirror May Appear Closer
(32:49):
Than They Are.
It was really gruesomely hard towrite.
In fact, it was the last song Iwrote for the record, which was
basically done.
The record label just wanted tostop.
"They wanted to put it out, andI insisted I really wanted to
write another song," classicJim,"and that was a really
emotional song to write.
It's a very passionate song.
It's really, I think, maybe themost passionate one on the
record.
(33:09):
I'm really proud of it becausethat's really one that goes over
the top in the sense that it'sgot images, it has religious
imagery of resurrection, it'sgot images of fertility and
rebirth.
It has really good sexualimages.
Images of cars, which I alwayslike." You had to ruin it.
Jim,
Emma (33:27):
why does he always ruin it?
Sam (33:29):
of course this song has done the rounds, it was in the
Bat out of Hell musical.
Where it gets utterly ruinedbecause the three verses get
split among different singerswho are each reminiscing about
their pasts.
So two of them sing abouthorrible dark pasts with dead
friends and abusive fathers.
And one of'em comes in and goes,I boned a girl.
Emma (33:50):
That was a high point in the musical, wasn't it?
Sam (33:53):
But it's also appeared in other musicals, Emma.
Yes.
to Jim's house of recycling.
Some of the melody you mighthave noticed is recycled from
Surf's Up.
then Jim later reuses the tuneon the Tanz der Vampire musical.
The original German song wascalled Die Unstillbare Gier or
(34:13):
the Unquenchable Greed.
Emma (34:16):
Crikey, that sounds like
Sam (34:18):
Have a listen.
that was Die Unstillbare Gier
Emma (34:38):
And what is that about?
Sam (34:39):
So it's a vampire.
He's using the same structure,so it's a vampire reminiscing
about different times in hispast.
Okay.
Across hundreds of years.
I quite like what he does withit.
He's remembering different womenover the centuries that he's
corrupted and ruined because ofhis unquenchable vampire greed.
Okay.
The singer on that recording'sbrilliant.
(34:59):
He's got a heck of a voice onhim and it's a really operatic
piece becomes a massivelyoperatic piece.
But then when the musicaltranslated to the US in English
the song title becameConfessions of a Vampire
Emma (35:11):
Okay.
Soundtrack (35:12):
She never knew my soul was cursed for good.
I fought to overcome my thirst,I thought I could, but when I
kissed her lips then I had nocontrol.
And the furies all ran wild..
Sam (35:29):
I wanna come back Tanz der Vampire in the future.
Jim didn't do the lyrics in theoriginal German but I suspect he
had more of a hand in thetranslation into English, which
was famously unsuccessful.
But yeah, Jim goes and takesthis very relatable, very
heartbreaking song and shoves itin his vampire musical.
Emma (35:50):
I imagine Jim taking like his masterpieces regularly and
running them through his Vampiremachine.
Sam (35:59):
My Vampire machine.
Vampire from Ghost Wars, seasontwo.
I'm gonna send you a link.
this is the cover art to thesingle which I would like you to
look at.
We've just been talking about avery moving heartbreaking song
about real trauma and real pain.
(36:20):
And this is the art they choseto use to sell it.
Emma (36:29):
Why
Sam (36:30):
Emma, tell the listeners what you're looking at there.
Emma (36:32):
So what I'm looking at here is some terrible nineties
montage art.
it's all sort of shades of greenand black.
On the right hand side, thereseems to be a hooded figure
showing its skeletal ribcageoff.
Sam (36:47):
That's Death flashing you, isn't it?
Death Death is literally holdingup his shirt, showing off his
Emma (36:52):
nail polish on.
Sam (36:54):
Yeah, that looks to be red nail.
Is it, blood?
Emma (36:59):
Maybe.
And then there's some sort ofbeast at a window.
Sam (37:02):
There's a monster at a window, and there's another
monster down at Death's feet.
Bit weird.
Emma (37:07):
bold
Sam (37:08):
Yeah.
That was by the artist MichaelWheelan, who also did the cover
out to the album.
Emma (37:12):
Okay.
Sam (37:13):
Which we've not yet discussed, but you know, you've
all seen it.
Emma (37:16):
Yeah,
Sam (37:17):
I guess they paid Michael Wheelan for three pieces of art
and they're using three piecesof art.
Emma (37:22):
goddammit.
Doesn't fit with the song atall, but also
Sam (37:27):
very strange.
Emma (37:29):
Wow.
Thank you for sharing thatlittle
Sam (37:31):
You're welcome.
Emma, would you like a quiz?
Emma (37:33):
Yes.
She said, wondering what thisseason's
Sam (37:38):
a quiz, isn't it?
It's a quiz.
Emma (37:39):
Wonder what this series's torture's going to be
Sam (37:41):
Here's three facts.
Which of them is true?
This song holds the record forlongest song title without any
brackets to ever appear in theUK top 40.
Okay.
B.
This song was bumped from itshighest point in the charts by
Babe by Take That C.
famous car addict, farmer(fortax avoidance purposes) Jeremy
(38:03):
Clarkson unexpectedly has a bitpart in the video for
Emma (38:09):
I think the truth is the length of the song title
Sam (38:13):
One nil to you.
Yes.
Emma (38:14):
Yes.
Sam (38:15):
This is the longest song title that doesn't have Yeah.
That ever appears in the UK.
Top 40.
The longest song title withbrackets is a song by the Faces
slash Rod Stewart in 1974.
And it's called, You Can Make MeDance, Sing or Anything open
brackets, even Take the Dog fora Walk.
Mend a Fuse, fold Away theIroning Board or any other
Domestic Shortcomings closebrackets.
Emma (38:36):
Wow.
Sam (38:36):
Any thoughts on what the other two might have been about
Emma?
Emma (38:39):
Not a clue.
Come on.
Okay.
Sam (38:40):
The song was bumped from its highest point in the charts
by Babe by Take That.
So that's not true of this song.
But it is true of the song Mr.
Blobby performed by noveltychildren's character, Mr.
Blobby.
Okay.
From the album Mr.
Blobby.
Emma (38:55):
Yep.
Sam (38:56):
Yeah.
However, Mr.
Blobby himself did shift, I'd DoAnything for Love from the top.
Emma (39:02):
Yes he did.
I remember this happening.
And being mortified.
Sam (39:06):
Your two favorite acts, battling.
and Jeremy Clarkson was in theMr.
Blobby video.
Of course
Emma (39:12):
he
Sam (39:12):
was.
Yeah.
Emma (39:13):
Is it gonna be Mr.
Blobby then?
Sam (39:15):
I regret to tell you it's the Mr.
Blobby single this time.
Emma (39:18):
Oh no.
Sam (39:20):
It's funny how he makes us understand
Emma (39:22):
his influence has spread throughout the land.
Sam (39:24):
Indeed.
Sorry, Americans.
Emma (39:28):
Yeah.
Americans.
Look that one up.
Sam (39:29):
Or indeed, British people under the age of 38.
What would you like to hear whatthe people of the internet
think?.
As you might imagine, this videohas so many comments of people
remembering childhood traumasand long lost loved ones and
sharing grief.
Yeah.
And almost all of the repliesare people offering solace to
their fellow man across theinternet, which is wonderful.
(39:50):
It's wonderful.
They're all reaching out handacross time
Emma (39:52):
and space.
I'm sensing a however,
Sam (39:55):
Luckily, though there are some people who've really let
the side down.
So let's start with this commentis fine.
It's from ZA tennis fan, Bat Outof Hell.
Quite simply, one of thegreatest albums of all time.
There is not one weak track onthat record.
It is a work of the most sublimegenius from beginning to end.
(40:15):
Reply from at TheFonzKiss.
This isn't even from that
Emma (40:18):
album noob..
Brilliant.
No.
Sam (40:23):
And then in the midst of all the people reminiscing about
their lost loves at BalooUrizasaid the airport in question
here has the FAA ID of three XSzero if you want to see it.
Emma (40:36):
Nerd, I like that you did your best nerd voice
Sam (40:40):
well.
Thank
Emma (40:41):
you,
Sam (40:41):
Emma.
I have seen three differentairports on
Emma (40:45):
this
Sam (40:46):
and then I do have some Meat Loaf memories scattered
around.
Meat Loaf memories.
just reminded me that one of thereasons I think we both like
Objects in the Rear View Mirroris'cause we can actually sing it
in our registers.
Emma (41:01):
Yes.
Sam (41:03):
Doesn't, a lot of rage to it compared to most
Emma (41:05):
Steinman Loaf Yeah.
We could belt this one outreally
Sam (41:08):
Yeah.
Anyway at RailYardProductions,my wife and I met him on his
bus.
He came up from the back wearinga pink bunny pajamas, like the
ones in A Christmas Story, restin peace Meat.
It's a long time since I've seena Christmas Story.
Do you remember the pink bunnypajamas?
Emma (41:25):
I don't, but I love the idea of Especially on Meat Loaf
Sam (41:29):
in my head.
I've just added some bunnyslippers as well.
Yes, of course.
Yeah.
And at Mark Richie 49 68, I methim in Glasgow about 94, when I
was in school.
He had a concert on.
My wee bro banged a window inthe SECC foyer and he opened the
blinds and tried to talk to usthrough the glass.
Then a crowd gathered and ruinedit.
Security dragged him off."
Emma (41:49):
Aw,
Sam (41:50):
Yeah.
I like dragged him off though.
Emma (41:54):
It dragged him
Sam (41:55):
off.
Emma (41:55):
not the fans.
It's not the crowd.
Him.
Sam (41:57):
the easiest way to solve this problem
Emma (41:59):
to remove Meat Loaf from the
Sam (42:01):
There you go a couple of lovely Meat Loaf memories, A few
facts
Emma (42:04):
They're nice.
Sam (42:05):
They're nice.
It's time to rate this song.
It is this is a Jim Steinmanwritten song.
So we are breaking out the JimSteinman scale for the first
time this series, as though weneed the end of it.
But we start at the top with JimSteinman In the middle we go for
Jim Fineman and all the way downat the bottom, it's a Jim
Declineman.
Emma, what's this?
Emma (42:24):
It's probably just a Jim Fineman.
I'm kidding.
It's
Sam (42:27):
a Jim Steinman, but in a sadder, more melancholy tone of
voice.
Emma (42:33):
Yes.
It's a Jim Steinman.
A Jim Steinman.
Sam (42:39):
Jim Steinman.
Jim It's a Jim Steinman.
It is a Jim, no, not that's myother podcast.
Emma (42:59):
Good.
Sam (43:00):
So that was our songs this episode.
Emma (43:02):
We're
Sam (43:02):
back listeners.
I hope to edit it down, but Ithink we'll both agree, it's
been a bit of a slog gettingback into game match.
Emma (43:12):
Fuck, we can't even talk about how shit we are
Sam (43:15):
that one.
Emma (43:15):
that
Sam (43:17):
but I'm really glad we're back doing this.
Yes, it's nice It's lovely,isn't it?
If you had opinions on thosesongs, if you'd like to disagree
with our ratings ratings and howdare you, you can drop us an
email, chat We have quite a fewemails that we've been accruing
lately we didn't do emails forthe past couple of episodes, so
shall we dive in Emma?
Yeah.
Emma (43:33):
that's
Sam (43:34):
RL Gray, lovely.
RL got in touch about Surf's Upslash Masculine a couple of
episodes ago.
I adore Surf's Up.
It is gorgeous and huge and dumbhorny, but what else do you want
from a Steinman song?
And Masculine is like that, butwithout the gorgeous, I still
think it's fun, though.
It works well in a workout mix.
I can see Masculine being in aworkout mix.
Emma (43:55):
Yeah.
Sam (43:56):
Right after Ravishing by Bonnie Tyler.
Emma (43:58):
Oh god.
This, not my workout mix,obviously.
Sam (44:01):
You can't have two sexy a workout mix.
Thinking about it
Emma (44:03):
do you know what has worked it's way into my, I say
workout mix.
It's my swimming Do you wannaknow what's worked its way in
there?
Sam (44:11):
Tell us Emma
Emma (44:12):
California Isn't Big Enough
Sam (44:14):
Yeah.
You're playing that all the timenow.
I love
Emma (44:17):
I
Sam (44:17):
it.
That's become your song forclosing out gigs to empty the
room.
Emma (44:21):
Quite good job.
Sam (44:23):
Chris Matts my friends have absolutely chastised me for
being a regular contributor to aMeat Loaf podcast, but I don't
care what they say'cause I knowI'm cool."
Emma (44:32):
You should hear what our friends have
Sam (44:33):
to say
Emma (44:34):
about it
Sam (44:35):
mostly.
Yeah.
I've not listened.
The perfect song for you guys tocover is One more Kiss from
Blind Before I Stop.
There are so many thingshappening in this song," I don't
know it yet.
Um, Do I stick it on the list?
Thank you, Chris.
And if you've got a song you'dlike us to cover, do drop us a
line chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
And then this is David Gillespiewho wrote.
All right again, fellow youngpeople".
(44:58):
And David is the one whorecommended Mick Wall's book
Like A Bat Out of Hell.
Okay Um, so to quote David Mickis a legendary rock writer whose
career has spanned from the late1970s until the present day and
was a colleague and flatmate ofwriter Sandy Robertson, whose
reviews you have regularlyquoted.
Mick managed to piss off AxlRose enough to be included in
the lyrics to the song, Get InThe Ring off Use Your Illusion
(45:18):
2.
The book is rife with storiesabout both Meat Loaf and Jim
Steinman, and the Pandora's Boxchapter is a particular
highlight".
Boom.
that will be my go-to reference.
So yeah, thank you Dave.
And then we have an email fromCharlie Etheridge Nunn, whose
content I won't reveal, but itdoes pertain to our choices next
time.
Emma, what songs are we bringingnext time?
Emma (45:39):
So I'm gonna bring a time for Heroes, which was the theme
from the 1987 Special Olympicsthat Meat Loaf sang
Sam (45:46):
Lovely.
And because it's a hero themedepisode next time, Emma has
kindly allowed me to go back toBonnie Tyler.
So I'll be bringing Holding outfor a Hero from 1984 and we are
all gonna have an amazing time.
Oh yes.
Let us know your opinions onthose.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com If youcould keep giving us five stars
on your podcast listening app ofchoice, that would be lovely.
(46:06):
Recommend us generally to yourfriends.
If you're on a date or you'vejust joined a five a side
football team, tell everybodyabout us.
Let us know your general MeatLoaf thoughts and anecdotes.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingToe Jam and Earl on the Sega
Mega Drive or Sega Genesis toAmericans?
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com Emma, Ithink that's all of the
everything now.
(46:28):
Lovely.
Well, that's all of myeverything too.
We'll see you all again in twomore weeks' time for another
Chat Out of Hell.
Bye.
Emma (46:35):
bye.
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