October 5, 2025 • 40 mins
Chat out of Hell moves as close as it's ever been to boy band territory this episode as we check in with Jim Steinman's collab with Andrew Lloyd Webber, which somehow led to a single from Boyzone. Meanwhile Meat Loaf rocks the heck out to a track from the never-seen Batman: The Musical and we all wonder if it was a good idea. But while we do, we answer the big questions, questions like:
- What did teenage Emma think fo the boy band phenomenon?
- Was Meat Loaf ever happy?
- Has Sam bitten off more than he can chew with the Mr Blobby song?
PLUS a load of the usual chit chat, some insight into the business workings of Warner Brothers circa 2001, and why Tim Burton dodged a bullet.
Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown
Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:
No Matter What by Boyzone from the album Songs from Whistle Down the Wind (1998)
Home By Now / No Matter What by Meat Loaf from the album The Very Best of Meat Loaf (1998)
In the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King by Meat Loaf from the album Bat out of Hell III: the Monster is Loose (2006)
In the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King demo version by Jim Steinman
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam (00:00):
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out of Hell, a podcast about the works of
Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman.
But if you're listening to this,then I reckon you probably know
that already, don't you?
Sam (00:11):
who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:13):
Meat Loaf was a singer and actor who was in the original
cast of the musical Hair.
He declined the opportunity tobe in the famous nude scene
stating"you got an extra$12 50to be in the nude scene, and I
didn't need an extra$12 50."Who's Jim Steinman?
Uh,
Sam (00:31):
Jim Steinman was a musician and composer whose first foray
into musical theatre was when hewas at college.
Where he wrote for a musicaladaptation of a Bertol Brecht
play
Emma (00:42):
Oh no.
Which one?
Sam (00:45):
A Man's a Man
Emma (00:47):
Oh, I didn't do that one.
Uh, Who are we?
uh,
Sam (00:51):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
And we are fans of Meat Loaf,Jim Steinman, and one of us
likes musical theatre and theother one not so much.
So this'll be all right, won'tit?
Emma (01:00):
Oh yeah.
Sam (01:01):
Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow.
Now, now, Now.
here we go again.
Emma (01:08):
Hey, Sam.
Sam (01:08):
Hi, Emma.
You alright?
Emma (01:09):
I'm not bad.
Thank you.
How are you?
Sam (01:11):
fine.
I'm just gonna adjust my ownvolume.
Emma (01:13):
Okay.
Sam (01:15):
Oh, there is that deep seductive tone that only I can
hear of my own head.
Emma (01:21):
Lovely.
Sam (01:21):
Oh yeah.
Emma (01:22):
What about my deep seductive tone?
Sam (01:24):
Easy now.
And if you'd like to hear Emma'sdeep seductive tones, you can
call oh eight nine one.
Emma (01:31):
Sexy time.
Sexy
Sam (01:31):
Is it oh eight nine?
I don't even remember
Emma (01:33):
can't remember.
Sam (01:34):
for sexy numbers was.
Do you think they still do sexy
Emma (01:38):
It's probably all like web based sexy web chat.
I do occasionally considertrying to take on that line of
work because I'm in the positionwhere I'd like to earn more
money, I don't really want ajob.
And I've considered things likeThe old sexy chat.
'Cause I'm a versatile woman andI could, I figured for the tape
(02:00):
I could send in our Christmasspecial from last year.
Sam (02:05):
You think they have audition tapes?
It's a self tape.
This one Is your
Emma (02:10):
the glamorous World
Sam (02:11):
be off screen reading the other part?
What are you wearing
Emma (02:16):
in the glamorous world that I imagine the sexy phone
line exists in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there will be an audition tomake sure that I can, bring the
goods.
Sam (02:28):
Yeah, if you want, if you want.
Oh, it
Emma (02:31):
Oh, it got weird again, didn't it?
Sam (02:32):
got weird.
This is Chat Out of Hell, whichis a Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf
discussion book club of apodcast.
So every episode we both bring asong written by Jim Steinman, or
performed by Meat for ourlisteners' delectation, we are
gonna listen to them, talk aboutthem, rate them on our patented
Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman songrating scales.
(02:53):
So we are talking about musicalsthis week.
We're talking about two songsthat Jim Steinman wrote for
musicals originally.
Emma, what have you brought?
Emma (03:02):
I've brought No Matter What, which comes from the
Whistle Down the Windsoundtrack, But the most famous
version is by boy band Boyzoneso we're gonna start with that
one.
What have you brought, Sam?
Sam (03:15):
Well, if you can get past Emma's incredible enthusiasm for
No Matter What by Boyzone, we'rethen gonna listen to, In the
Land of the Pig, the Butcher isKing.
Emma (03:25):
is a title and a half,
Sam (03:26):
Which Meat Loaf sang on Bat out of Hell Three and is from
the Batman the Musicalsoundtrack which was a project
that Jim Steinman worked on,which somehow never happened.
we'll learn about that
Emma (03:39):
but it sounds like it could have been so good.
Sam (03:41):
Oh, good.
Well, we'll find out how good itcould have been.
But we're gonna listen to Emma'sfirst.
So listeners, if you cantolerate it, please go find No
Matter What by Boyzone,
Emma (03:53):
there is a video.
So we will be commenting
Sam (03:55):
Oh, crikey.
Go find No Matter What byBoyzone.
Find it on your YouTube or yourSpotify, or your copy of Now
That's What I Call Music 1996.
We're gonna play a short clip ofit now.
That's the end of that sentence,
Emma (04:24):
that was No Matter What by Boyzone.
All I really have to say aboutthis is chch-a-chch-ah-ah
Sam (04:33):
I'd completely forgotten that the intro
Emma (04:41):
it's so bad.
Sam (04:42):
I've probably not heard that since 1998.
Emma (04:45):
No.
It used to be on the radio a
Sam (04:48):
It was, yeah.
the era when boy bands stillwalked the
Emma (04:52):
Were you a boy band kind of a boy,
Sam (04:54):
Was I a boy band kind of a boy.
Emma.
I was gonna say great question.
Um, no,
Emma (05:01):
no, no, I dunno if it comes across, I wasn't a boy
band kind of a girl
Sam (05:07):
You weren't queuing up outside your local arena
screaming, holding a big cardsaying, Ronan, I love
Emma (05:14):
No, My thing.
Sam (05:18):
Did you know that this was a Jim Steinman as a kid?
Emma (05:23):
I didn't know it was a Jim Steinman until I bought the Meat
Loaf's Greatest Hits album Idon't think this sounds like a
Jim Steinman song, and I dunnoif it's because it's been run
through the boy band machine.
When I heard it on the Meat Loafalbum, I was very surprised.
Sam (05:39):
So Meat Loaf did a cover, did he, is this spoiler alert?
Emma (05:42):
Yeah, spoiler alert.
Meat Loaf did a cover,
Sam (05:44):
we'll be listening to in a bit
Emma (05:46):
And he oh, he has things to say about it.
Oh, wonderful.
Sam (05:48):
Oh, wonderful.
Emma (05:50):
So I didn't realize that it was a Steinman song until I
heard the Meat Loaf cover.
And I don't, again, spoilers, Idon't particularly like the Meat
Loaf version either.
There's just something about itthat doesn't have the drama that
I want in a Meat Loaf strokeSteinman song., Perhaps it's
because it was run through theboy band filter and that kind of
turned me
Sam (06:08):
They're so young, Emma, they're so young.
they're children.
Emma (06:12):
they are exploited children.
And one thing that I've noticedall this week while I've been
listening to this and doing bitsof research on it is when I've
been kicking back and watchingthe TV at night on one of the
Sky channels, there is going tobe a documentary called No
Matter What that he is talkingto the remaining members of
Boyzone about that time and thedifficult period that it was for
(06:36):
them.
I think they talked to LouisWalsh, who was their manager as
well.
And I don't think that they'veended on good terms.
So I suspect it was quite adifficult time for those
children.
those young men Alongside thepotential exploitation that may
have been going on, they're alsolike these young guys that have
come from Ireland who aresuddenly surrounded by screaming
(06:59):
girls.
That's gotta be a head fuck,hasn't it?
Sam (07:02):
Yeah.
Emma (07:03):
Nobody comes out of that unscathed.
No, you look at like, the guysfrom Take That, who went through
the
Sam (07:09):
kind of Yeah, yeah.
The charts were full of men withno shirts.
Yes.
Singing in four part closeharmony, largely insipid songs
about how you are nice and Iwant to do a kiss with you.
Emma (07:20):
Yes.
It was designed to tap into theteenage girl psyche I hate it.
One Christmas I worked at HMVMeadowhall and we had a really
strict playlist of stuff thatwas allowed to be put on in the
store.
And oh my.
God, that's a special kind oftorture.
I think that year there was aRobbie Williams
Sam (07:43):
Was that when he did, like, Robbie Williams covers Frank
Sinatra.
Emma (07:46):
Oh I can't remember.
I've tried to block Robbie Butthere was definitely a Westlife
or something out at the timethat was monotonous dirge pop.
Mawkish, that's the word I'mgroping for.
Mawkish and that's how I feelabout
Sam (08:05):
So there we go.
That's our context for how weare talking
Emma (08:09):
this
Sam (08:10):
song.
Emma (08:11):
I say all of this, but if you look at the chart it was
number one in about 18countries.
Yeah.
Which is huge.
So, you know
Sam (08:21):
yeah.
We've just spent a lot ofepisodes talking about Meat Loaf
songs that got to like, number84 or something, or didn't even
chart,
Emma (08:29):
but this smashed it.
Sam (08:30):
absolutely smashed it.
Emma (08:32):
Perhaps we should look at the video first.
Sam (08:33):
had proper flashbacks there.
Emma (08:35):
It's so nineties.
Sam (08:37):
It ticks all the
Emma (08:38):
It's got, it ticks all the boxes.
It, it really does it.
It is.
Yeah.
I Spy 90s Music Video
Sam (08:42):
You've got the band themselves of course.
And you've got a bunch of peopleof appropriately different
ethnicities and
Emma (08:48):
Yes.
It's so right on
Sam (08:51):
wearing a liney,
Emma (08:52):
everybody is dressed in white
Sam (08:55):
which in the context of Whistle Down the Wind, which is
a musical about
Emma (08:58):
Yeah.
Suddenly So it's all a bitJesus.
There's definitely a Jesusfigure in there.
Yeah.
Sam (09:04):
Somebody's building a big hot air balloon
Emma (09:06):
the indoor hot air balloon, that doesn't, yeah.
It's a nonsense.
Sam (09:10):
And then at the end, all the silver tickets from the
Crystal Maze rain down on
Emma (09:16):
So they've lost all the prizes'cause they've collected
too many silver tickets.
Not enough gold ones.
Enjoy that, So the Boyzone videowas directed by Michael
Geoghegan and it was filmed atthe Roundhouse in London.
And I guess it's big enough
Sam (09:30):
inflate a big balloon in it.
Emma (09:31):
An alternate version was later produced for the tie in
for Notting Hill'cause of courseit was
Sam (09:37):
on, this was in
Emma (09:38):
for that.
it's the same kind of video, butthey had a load of clips from
the film mixed in as well.
Sam (09:43):
Yeah, I remember that one.
Yeah, like screens going by inthe background that had a little
bit of, was it Andi McDowell?
Emma (09:49):
No, that was Four Weddings
Sam (09:51):
four.
Was that Four Weddings.
the same, isn't Julia Roberts.
Yeah.
Emma (09:55):
They were basically
Sam (09:57):
Oh, I'm just dusting off the late nineties here.
Aren't we?
Emma (10:01):
formative years.
Um, It was originally writtenfor Whistle Down the Wind, which
was a collaboration between JimSteinman and Andrew Lloyd
Webber.
Yep.
Who feel like weird, chums, butchummy they were
Sam (10:14):
do they feel that weird?
Emma (10:15):
I don't think I'd've made that prior to us doing this.
Sam (10:19):
Creepy Obsessives hanging out in basements writing big,
dramatic,
Emma (10:23):
Musical theatre kids, aren't they?
Yeah.
That's what Jim So they,collaborated on Whistle Down the
Wind and the version that's usedon Whistle Down the Wind is
totally different.
Sam (10:34):
How did this fall into the hands of Boyzone then?
Emma (10:37):
Right.
Sam (10:38):
And by I do mean fall into their hands.
How did they intercept the lyricsheets?
Emma (10:43):
They wanted to put out a tie-in album featuring songs
from Whistle Down the Wind.
But done by big artists.
And we'll probably be comingback to that album at some point
Sam (10:54):
cause Bonnie Tyler's got a song on it.
Emma (10:56):
'cause Bonnie's got a song in it.
and so they wanted a big bandto, to take
Sam (10:59):
some.
Right.
So they approached various bigartists of the day and Boyzone
just happened to be in
Emma (11:04):
that.
Yeah.
It was rewritten for them.
So the version that we've justheard now is their version.
It's also the same version thatMeat Loaf sings.
But the actual version fromWhistle Down the Wind is very
different.
Cause it sung by children I'mnot gonna go too deeply into the
story of Whistle Down the Wind,but I will do a really basic
cover.
Whistle Down the Wind tells thestory of three children in 1950s
(11:26):
Louisiana, who discover anescaped convict, the Man, their
barn.
They believe that he's JesusChrist.
And they pledge to protect himfrom the adult world, who
instead see him as a dangerouscriminal.
Swallow, who's the eldest child,develops feelings for the man.
The children's secret becomesimpossible to keep, leading to
confrontation between faith andreality that culminates in
(11:49):
tragic consequences.
Sam (11:51):
It's basically the first scene of Great Expecations
Emma (11:53):
Yeah.
Sam (11:53):
with extra Jesus,
Emma (11:54):
a lot of extra Jesus.
And there's all sorts ofdifferent storylines that's the
basic plot.
Cool.
So it's some kids that arestupid enough to believe that an
escaped convict is Jesus.
Sam (12:06):
And this is them singing about how they can't deny that
Emma (12:09):
this.
Yeah.
This is the end of act one.
And they're singing about howthey'll protect Also, you get
like the other villagers singingalong, in about the crimes and
how they want to protect thevillage it's worth a listen.
I think.
Sam (12:23):
All right.
Well, we are gonna listen to itnow.
Listeners, do what you like.
(12:45):
Everything's just fallen intoplace.
the music was Lloyd Webber.
The lyrics were Jim.
Yes.
So when you take one of thesongs from the musical and strip
out half the lyrics and givethat to Boyzone, of course
there's no Jim left.
Yeah.
It's just generic insipid I loveyou stuff.
But that was quite Jim.
Emma (13:02):
It's certainly more Jim
Sam (13:03):
It's got wrestling with the devil in it, emma,
Emma (13:06):
is very Jim, isn't
Sam (13:07):
and actually the trio of lines,"if only tears were
laughter, if only night was day,if only prayers were answered".
That's such a Jim line,
Emma (13:15):
you could hear that in a proper Jim
Sam (13:18):
Jim, forever young, raging against God.
My huge disdain for all childactors aside.
There.
Technology yet, hasn't providedrobot child actors to make them
more tolerable.
So,
Emma (13:33):
yeah.
Come on, technology.
get a move on.
Sam (13:37):
I quite like that.
Emma (13:38):
I It's all right.
It's not for me.
Sam (13:41):
me.
Contextually it's the first actshowstopper, so draws on in that
Emma (13:45):
Yeah.
I have heard one or two of theother songs in that act and
there's some that I really
Sam (13:53):
Oh, good.
Emma (13:53):
that I'm sure we will pick up on'cause they are also
covered by Meat Loaf and BonnieThe musical wasn't very
successful on its first release.
It premiered in New York offBroadway in 96.
And'cause it wasn't a hit, itnever made it to Broadway.
Lloyd Rose from the WashingtonPost said"it's just dull.
Steinman and Lloyd Webber'sdiffering styles of gothic
(14:15):
intensity might have beenexpected to be mutually
enhancing, but in fact theycancel each other out." So it
was reworked after that.
Yeah.
And it was brought over toLondon in 98 when it ran from
1998 to 2001 was performed 1044times and was generally a lot
better received.
(14:36):
I think Jim quite enjoyedworking with Andrew Lloyd
Webber.
Sam (14:39):
Well I think we've mentioned this before.
Lloyd Weber wanted him to do thelyrics on Phantom.
Emma (14:43):
Yes.
Sam (14:44):
but he was too busy working with Bonnie.
He made the right choice.
Emma (14:48):
I think so.
so, yeah that's the musical,
Sam (14:50):
an interesting journey that song's been on, isn't it?
Emma (14:53):
And it's not over yet.
Because Meat Loaf does aversion.
Sam (15:11):
Now.
And that's a funny joke forthose of you who listened all
the way through,
Emma (15:18):
Oh God,
Sam (15:20):
that's a bit of a slog, innit.
That's definitely Jim Steinman.
One minute, 25 of intro, aminute and a half of outro.
After the intro, it comes inwith the sparkly noise off the
Toys R Us adverts.
Emma (15:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim's got his Christmas, noisesout, hasn't he?
God, that's a slog.
It's one that I skip on thealbum.
Sam (15:45):
Okay.
I was enjoying it at first.
Emma (15:48):
It's a mashup of two songs from the soundtrack.
of course Meat Loaf couldn'tjust do the normal song so he's
got to mash it up with anothertrack that's called Home by Now.
Yep.
Which is what you get at theintro and the outro.
Sam (15:58):
Is, I assume the kids saying,"oh, we should be home by
now.
Let's not go in that barn."
Emma (16:04):
there's a disappointing lack of chk-a-chk-ah-ah
Sam (16:07):
Once he got into No Matter What I was quite enjoying the
first couple of verses.
'cause he sounded like a scaredman in the dark.
Ploughing on no matter whathappens.
But then he got too confident Orconfident.
Better way.
He got too powerful Emma.
Emma (16:25):
Meat Loaf wasn't thrilled that the big song had been
offered to Boyzone.
And he said,"this keepshappening to me.
I was supposed to be the onethat recorded No Matter What,
not Boyzone.
Okay, they did a big hitversion, but come on, are you
kidding?
It was like nothing.
(16:46):
No body, no soul.
Can you imagine what I would'vedone with that song?" And then,
imagine No more because he didit anyway.
And had to mash it up.
Sam (16:57):
such a whiner, isn't he?
Emma (16:59):
Oh, he really is.
Sam (17:00):
Oh, I never get anything I want except all this money and
fame and
Emma (17:04):
Yeah.
There, there's,
Sam (17:07):
I this was mid eighties Meat Loaf, I'd understand him
being a bit sulky.
But this is but this is
Emma (17:13):
post.
Yeah, this is post bat two He'sin a good place.
Sam (17:17):
I quite like his version, but it goes on too much.
any song that Jim has writtenfor somebody who isn't Meat that
he then covers.
Emma (17:24):
It doesn't sound right, does it?
Sam (17:25):
It doesn't work.
No.
Interesting.
He should listen to when Jimtells him what's for him and
what isn't.
Emma (17:31):
It, goes on too much and not in a fun way like some of
the other songs do.
Do you wanna hear what thepeople of the internet had to
Sam (17:37):
please.
Emma (17:39):
Opinions vary.
Raquel said"this song was forthe Andrew Lloyd Weber musical
Whistle Down the Wind.
Meat Loaf also did a version ofit," So this is commenting on
the Boyzone version.
Don't listen to it.
It'll make your ears bleed.
I love this song so much and itwas lovely to see them sing it
live." So she's obviously beento a Boyzone concert some point
but doesn't like the Meat Loafversion.
Sam (17:59):
I'm happy that she's happy.
Emma (18:01):
Conversely, Iris Brandt 2 9 5 9 said,"no one can sing this
song better than Meat.
I love it.
And goosebumps at the end".
Sam (18:11):
A real spectrum of opinions
Emma (18:12):
Yes.
Sam (18:13):
Has anyone chipped in to say, actually those 11-year-old
drama school children sing itbest?
Emma (18:18):
I haven't got that.
A lot of people feel reallyemotional about the song, so I'm
not gonna diss
Sam (18:23):
not gonna yuk anyone's yum.
Emma (18:25):
Lot, lots of people cite the Boyzone version of being
like really meaningful thecomments.
So it's got'em through toughtimes.
It's been played at weddings andfunerals and stuff, so I can't
be cruel it, but it is mawkishand cheesy.
Sam (18:37):
Is.
And I think we'd both be lyingif we pretended we didn't have
something like that in our brainsomewhere.
That is an objectively bad songthat we still have a
Emma (18:47):
lot to.
Yeah.
Sam (18:49):
Is it time to rate this song then, Emma?
Emma (18:50):
It's time to rate this song.
this
Sam (18:52):
up.
Good.
'cause we've been talking aboutit for nearly an hour
Emma (18:53):
Yeah.
I'm exhausted and
Sam (18:55):
we've got a lot to go.
This is a song by Jim Steinman,so we rate these on our patented
wind whistlingly good JimSteinman song rating scale,
which runs from Jim Steinman, upat the top to Jim Fineman, for
his middle of the road songs,all the way down to Jim
Declineman for his very, verybad songs.
(19:15):
Some of them are dodgy uh, butwhat's this?
Emma (19:19):
It's a Fineman, I guess.
Sam (19:20):
the Boyzone version, I would decline.
Emma (19:23):
Yeah.
version
Sam (19:24):
in the context of the show has a bit more of the Jim to it.
It's fine.
It's not offensive.
Meat's version is, well,lyrically it's the Boyzone
Meat's version is betterproduced, but put it through the
Bat out of Hell Two Meatmachine.
Is that gonna sound good?
(19:45):
Can you even conceive of it as aBat out of Hell Two era song?
Emma (19:48):
It's definitely not a Jim Steinman.
Sam (19:50):
No, I'm not saying that.
No.
But
Emma (19:52):
I'd be happy to decline the whole lot.
Okay.
But.
I appreciate.
I don't have much time for theboy band stuff, and that has
very much coloured myperception.
Sam (20:02):
The things we've declined so far.
Hulk Hogan's theme, the Want Ad,More, Requiem Metal,
Emma (20:11):
Oh God.
Sam (20:11):
And all of the Dream Engine.
Does it share that illustriouscompany?
Emma (20:16):
It's not as shit as those, is it?
Sam (20:18):
No,
Emma (20:18):
it's a fine.
Sam (20:19):
It's fine.
Yeah.
This is a,
Emma (20:20):
It's inoffensive,
Sam (20:21):
It's a Jim.
Fine.
Fineman.
fine.
Emma (20:26):
Good.
So, Sam, tell us what you'vebrought.
Sam (20:29):
I've brought in the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King,
which Meat Loaf recorded on hisalbum Bat Out of Hell Three, and
was originally written forBatman the Musical, which was
never performed.
So listeners, go away, find thaton your YouTubes or your
Spotifys or your localslaughterhouse.
I guess there's no video for it,it is just an album track.
(20:50):
So look at something else whileyou're listening.
We are gonna listen to it nowand we'll see you very soon.
Oink oink.
there you go.
(21:11):
Do you feel like you're in aregional rock rock club in the
late two thousands?
Emma (21:15):
That
Sam (21:16):
What?
Emma (21:17):
Really?
Sam (21:18):
really hate it?
Emma (21:19):
It's quite two thousands, isn't it?
Sam (21:20):
It's very two thousands.
Emma (21:21):
Yeah.
Some of the lyrics made mechuckle.
Sam (21:23):
you not feel much better than having listened to No
Matter What?
You listen to some hard rock,
Emma (21:29):
definitely a lot more rock.
"With all that we can take andpocket.
No one needs to know we are theplug and they're the socket.
Give us the juice and we'll go."
Sam (21:43):
They're good, but there are some better lyrics.
Here's one.
"We know what to say.
If you stand in our way, don'tstand in our way."
Emma (21:54):
It's not Jim's finest set of lyrics.
Sam (21:57):
No.
An incomplete song from anincomplete show.
And this is the context of Batout of Hell Three where
something happens, Jim doesn'twanna play, or he's too ill, or
he is pretending to be ill andhe just throws Meat some old
photocopies of stuff had lyingaround and off you go with it.
(22:17):
Another set of lyrics though,they're the big dogs waiting for
their mother.
Come to the confessional, so Ican tell you all to bugger off,"
it, I love it because it's, likea lot of Anglophile Americans,
Jim still doesn't quite work outhow British swearing works.
works.
Yeah.
We Would never use bugger off inthat context.
(22:38):
I'm so mad and angry and I wantyou to bugger off.
Emma (22:43):
How had I missed that?
That's amazing.
Sam (22:46):
I do enjoy the audacity of rhyming bugger with mother.
Emma (22:50):
Yeah.
That's not a rhyme.
Mother bugger.
Oh wow.
Sam (22:54):
And just like other Jim songs this is a recurring
problem with Jim.
We had I'd do Anything for Lovebeing the name of the song and
the lyric is, I would doanything for here the song is In
the Land of the Pig, all thelyrics refer to pigs, plural.
Emma (23:10):
I liked the noises at the end.
That noise at
Sam (23:12):
the end.
They were fun, Yeah.
It's big and it's crashing andit's sort of thing you've come
to the Meat Loaf shop
Emma (23:19):
Yeah
Sam (23:19):
It might be the own brand version, but it's the product
that you're after.
In the context of Meat's stagepersona, you can picture him
stalking around the stage beingthe big cartoon villain of
himself being brought on by twoattendants in a cage as Jim
wanted him to do, Breaking outand singing this animalistic and
(23:41):
Yeah.
Fun fact for you.
This song is the last time ToddRundgren gets credited on a Meat
Loaf song.
Emma (23:47):
Really?
Sam (23:47):
Yeah.
This is Todd's final appearance
Emma (23:50):
this is Todd's swan song
Sam (23:53):
He's one of the background vocalists.
Emma (23:55):
Wow.
Sam (23:56):
A fun but not particularly deep fact.
Emma (23:59):
Do you think he'd he'd had enough after this bullshit?
Sam (24:03):
think he got out when the going was This is from Batman,
the musical.
Emma.
There's two versions of thisfloating about, this is
obviously the one that wasrecorded properly in a studio.
There is Jim's demo versionWe'll learn about Batman the
Musical in a minute, but we allknow it didn't happen.
And after it hadn't happened,Jim released some of his demos
to the internet.
(24:24):
So have a listen to this.
Let's see if it changes yourmind.
Even on the demo, he got thepigs in at the end, so you're
clear what the song is about.
Emma (24:41):
it.
Love it.
How'd
Sam (24:43):
you feel about that
Emma (24:44):
I like that more.
Sam (24:45):
Do you?
Yeah.
Interesting.
I don't like it less
Emma (24:50):
the drama in it is better.
Sam (24:52):
Yeah.
This is theatre Jim, isn't
Emma (24:53):
This theatre.
It's theatre Jim.
But if you think back to likeBat of Hell Two, that's very
theatrical.
it really benefits from that.
I think stylistically it's beentaken too far into I guess what
was fashionable at the time inthe naughties.
Sam (25:09):
Bat out of Hell Three has been criticized for being too nu
metally.
Emma (25:13):
And doesn't work.
Sam (25:14):
Yeah.
Emma (25:15):
if Meat Loaf had've sung this version, I think it
would've been mad and
Sam (25:19):
That is Jim hammering away at the keyboard with his lovely
chord progressions, which arereally good.
The piano accompaniment, pianoled accompaniment I find much
better than the guitar in theMeat version.
So Meet said to our lovely saucemc wall.
When he was recording hisversion of the song, that's when
he realized he was making a Batout of Hell Record.
(25:42):
Sorry, I didn't mean to make youspit your drink out.
And then he's also dissed Jim'sversion.
Yeah.
He says Jim's version is"veryWest End Broadway.
So Oklahoma that it'sridiculous." It was for a
Broadway show, so I'm not sureyou can criticize it too hard
for that, but it's quitePhantomy, I think.
(26:04):
Have you seen Phantom?
you seen enough of Phantom
Emma (26:07):
to talking about
Sam (26:08):
Yeah.
Emma (26:08):
It's big villain action.
And that's what you want from a,Batman musical, isn't it?
Something a bit camp.
And I'm on board for that.
Sam (26:17):
So let's talk about Batman the Musical and why nobody's
ever seen it.
We're gonna go with the quiz,Emma.
Emma (26:23):
Okay.
Sam (26:23):
We're gonna start with the
Emma (26:24):
How has Mr.
Blobby fucked over Batman theMusical?
Sam (26:28):
Put yourself into the shoes of a Broadway producer.
Jim's just played this for you.
But what do you think the song'sabout?
Is it about A), the corruptofficials who run Gotham City
gleefully singing about how theylove being Is it B) A song by
super villain, the Butcher,singing to his gang, the pigs,
(26:48):
who all dress in pink with pigmasks and only say pigs, pigs,
pigs.
Or is it C) A song by thecriminal Joe Chill about how
he's gonna do all his crimes toGotham City, but ending with him
falling into the radioactiveguns that turns him into the
Joker.
Emma (27:06):
I hope that it's A but gone.
Sam (27:12):
You've gotta gimme an answer.
Emma (27:13):
I'm giving the answer A the first one.
That's what I think.
That's what I hope it is.
Sam (27:18):
three one to you.
This series well done.
Yeah.
Emma (27:21):
Oh, good.
Sam (27:22):
My God, do you know.
I have lost sleep this weektrying to work out how to wedge
Mr.
Blobby fucking this song is analbatross around my neck.
Emma (27:36):
I love that you've done this to
Sam (27:37):
yourself
Emma (27:37):
that you've painted yourself into this stupid
corner.
Sam (27:40):
I thought, oh, maybe there was like a Batman Mr.
Blobby crossover comic orsomething at some point.
Were they both in, in the Beanoor,
Emma (27:48):
What is Mr.
Blobby part of the DC Universe?
Sam (27:51):
Well it turns out he isn't, Emma.
Maybe there was a Batman villaincalled the Blob or work with
that.
No.
No.
Emma (27:59):
Batman's too gritty for that shit.
Sam (28:02):
Well, they've got like clay.
Oh fuck.
Oh.
So yeah, you saw straightthrough the gang of people
dressed in pink who go aroundsaying their own name.
'Cause that's what
Emma (28:12):
that's blobby.
Blobby, blobby.
Sam (28:13):
yeah.
Yeah.
And Joe Chill falling into theradioactive gunge that makes him
the Joker.
All of that is true, but I justadded gunge.
'cause that's what Mr.
Blobby would cover people Okay.
So you're trying to lead me downthat Yeah.
Oh that's an element.
So, I hate you Mr.
Blobby.
Emma (28:30):
I love that it's doing this to you this time.
Sam (28:32):
Yes.
We know very little about theplot of Batman the Musical, but
we do know that this song was bythe corrupt people who run
Gotham singing about how theylove being so corrupt.
Oh
Emma (28:43):
such exposition.
Sam (28:45):
Yeah, it presumably is one of the opening songs.
Batman the Musical wascommissioned by Warner Brothers
in the early two thousands,music and lyrics by Jim
Steinman, story by theplaywright David Ives.
The New York Post is my sourcefor a lot of this, and they are
a despicable rag, so might notbe true, but their report is
that in the late nineties,Warner started looking enviously
(29:08):
over at what Disney were gettingwith the Lion King stage
musical.
And there was the Beauty and theBeast Show.
Yeah.
And they thought, we want apiece of that.
So they turned to Jim Steinmanto make that happen.
Emma (29:18):
It's a weird leap
Sam (29:19):
that isn't contextually it makes a little sense., In this
timeframe, Jim is working onTanz der Vampire Yeah.
Over in Germany, which was asuccess in the original German,
less so the American We'll getonto that in a minute.
But obviously he's just come offBat out of Hell, he's worked
with Lloyd Webber in the past,he's just been doing Whistle
Down the Wind, so he is got thecred.
Right.
Jim has opinions on Batman.
(29:41):
Batman is the only greatsuperhero in my opinion.
I've always loved Batman'causehe's really human and is the way
he is because he saw his parentsbeing slaughtered." Other people
might have said, murdered,killed, slaughtered.
Emma (29:53):
Slaughtered.
Sam (29:53):
He's a total psychotic, neurotic, non-functioning human
being who...
a playboy who has a totallysuperficial, silly life by day
and by night, gets dressed up incod pieces, fetishistic vinyl
with enormous nipples.
"And he goes out with Robin onthese adventures.
I don't think you could findanything kinkier.
And yet he's a hero.
And it's that combination that'sreally cool.
(30:15):
The complexity of the humanelement, the vulnerability and
the power, and just sheervisceral, fun and excitement
combined of the gothictransfigured image."
Emma (30:24):
Ooh,
Sam (30:25):
Yeah.
And they went, yeah.
All right.
You'll do
Emma (30:29):
I can see if Warner Brothers were trying to
replicate the success ofDisney's Lion King musical then
it sounds odd to say that theygot Jim on board, but if they're
trying to do that with Batman,then it makes perfect sense to
get Jim on board.
Sam (30:42):
Even more sense when I tell you that Tim Burton was attached
to direct.
Someone describes the idea ofthe setting as they're gonna
have Gotham City Germany in thethirties.
Cabaret, corruption everywhere,
Emma (30:56):
all
Sam (30:56):
that
Emma (30:57):
This sounds like a musical that I would go and see.
Sam (30:59):
New York Post is quoting a source that's quoting Tim
Burton.
He's not pleased with the goofy,campy turn the franchise took
with Batman Forever and Batmanand Robin, both of which were
directed by Joel Schumacher."Didn't need to mention that,
just could have named the films.
Yeah we're gonna go after JoelSchumacher He wants to
reestablish his original vision.
His major impulse is to redeemthe soul of the Batman series."
(31:23):
Yeah.
And then Jim chipped in to say"it's more like his first two
movies than any of the otherBatman movies.
It's very dark and gothic, butreally wildly funny.
It was my dream that he do this"and then we don't really hear
anything about it after thatpoint.
Warners pulls the plug in 2004.
Emma (31:40):
Yeah.
Sam (31:41):
For one of three possible reasons.
Possibly because Batman Begins,was about to come out in cinema
and they didn't wanna dilute andconfuse the franchise?
Possibly it's because it wasrubbish.
Possibly it's because theyrealized what Jim Steinman was
like to work with.
We just don't know
Emma (32:00):
it could be a combination of the three,
Sam (32:02):
Possibly all three.
Since then, Tim Burton has alsodistanced himself from it.
He claims he was never reallyattached.
What he said was,"theyapproached me about that and I
was interested because I likedJim Steinman.
I met him a few times thought hedid some great stuff.
But at the end of the day,seeing this guy prancing around
and singing, I dunno, look whathappened to Spider-Man." I what?
Emma (32:27):
So the King of the Goths didn't want to play anymore.
The King
Sam (32:30):
of the Goths didn't want to...
musicals are about guys prancingaround
Emma (32:35):
and singing Yeah.
Sam (32:36):
The title of the email should have been a yes or no.
Tim talking about Spider-Manthere, that's a reference to
Spider-Man (32:43):
turn Off the Dark, The infamous Spider-Man musical
that was written by Bono and theEdge out of, off of U2.
Do you remember news of that?
Emma (32:54):
Wasn't it catastrophic?
Did it also lead to the KimmySchmidt?
Sam (32:59):
Kimmy Schmidt has that joke about Spider-Man 2
Spider-Men yeah.
That he is a joke about this.
It came up in the news a lotbecause about every three months
in rehearsal, and then in theearly performances, somebody
would catastrophically injurethemselves
Emma (33:13):
was one of those doomed ones, wasn't it?
Sam (33:15):
It's got reputation for being this massive, colossal
flop, it ran for about fouryears.
Yeah.
I didn't realize that till Ilooked it up, but yeah, like it
just lives on, in pop culturememory as this awful production
that failed and broke a lot ofactors' legs.
But it also didn't even openuntil 2011.
(33:35):
So Tim was just covering his ownarse there.
This song was actually alsopresent in another musical that
you have seen.
Emma (33:42):
Was it in Bat out of Hell?
Sam (33:44):
It was in the original.
Emma (33:46):
The original version Bat out of Hell.
Sam (33:47):
And I can see that working there.
Obviously, that's Falco singing
Emma (33:50):
Yes.
Sam (33:51):
Nahahah, I run the city.
I'm so evil.
Hahaha.
Yeah, it's a big evil villainsong.
it's good.
Emma (33:58):
love a big evil villain.
it's another one of those songsof Jim's that Meat Loaf has
covered at the wrong time, likeTrain of Love.
Sam (34:09):
Yeah
Emma (34:09):
the Jim demo version of that is on my playlist.
Sam (34:12):
Yeah.
Emma (34:13):
so much fun.
Sam (34:14):
it's
Emma (34:14):
it's gorgeous and silly
Sam (34:16):
And poor old man Meat singing Train of Love
Emma (34:18):
Sounds terrible.
And in this one, it's the wrongera because he's got a bit nu
metal, which doesn't work
Sam (34:25):
Yeah.
I think this could have workedon Braver than We Are, even with
his fucked up
Emma (34:31):
Voice
Sam (34:33):
Copyright Jim Steinman Because it is a song about an
old.
Villains.
Emma (34:39):
Yeah.
Sam (34:39):
I the penguin and I'm all horrible
Emma (34:40):
It could have worked on Bat Two.
Sam (34:42):
It could have worked on Bat Two.
Yeah.
About the only place in hiscareer it couldn't have worked
was
Emma (34:47):
where it was
Sam (34:49):
Bat Three
Emma (34:49):
or
Sam (34:50):
possibly a couple of albums after that.
Yeah.
Emma (34:52):
Bit rough.
Sam (34:52):
Bit rough.
Bit rough.
There are seven songs off theBatman musical that Jim put
demos out and couple more ofthem were covered by Meat Loaf.
So we'll return to the Batmanmusical, possibly in another
series where I've got adifferent novelty pop here to
try and wedge in there.
Would you like to hear what thepeople of the internet think?
Emma (35:13):
I really would.
Yes.
Sam (35:15):
No strong opinions on either versions.
on Meat Loaf's version at LittleScissors, that's not scissors.
That's like scissors, butwithout the C.
Emma (35:24):
Okay.
Sam (35:25):
My favorite song,
Emma (35:26):
It's a bold choice.
How many other songs have youheard?
Sam (35:32):
And that's a comment from two years ago as well.
Not even like when it first cameout.
Emma (35:37):
It's a weird choice
Sam (35:38):
and crazy mofo in a magic box.
Emma (35:42):
Oh
Sam (35:43):
"I love this song.
Take that everyone who says MeatLoaf songs are girly.
Who
Emma (35:48):
saying that?
Of all the criticisms of MeatLoaf songs, I don't think I'd
have ever gone for girly.
Sam (35:55):
isn't it?
All that motorbiking
Emma (35:56):
and all those motorbikes are dead girly.
Sam (35:59):
All that.
All that.
Doing it with ladies.
So girly
Emma (36:03):
Is this what Andrew Tate's doing to the world?
Because doesn't he, have athought that if a man enjoys sex
with a woman, then he's gay.
Sam (36:11):
seem to know a lot about Andrew Tate, Emma.
Emma (36:14):
I'm oddly fascinated.
Every so often, No, does nothingfor me.
Sam (36:19):
I assumed it wouldn't, That's I made the joke.
Emma (36:21):
Every so often I find myself delving back into the
artist formally known as Twitterto go and get some like, full on
hardcore hate to just see whatthe hate is doing out there.
What's
Sam (36:34):
the so
Emma (36:36):
I'll go and look at there.
There's a couple of comediansthat I go and have a look at.
and then I'll go and have aquick look and see what Mr.
Tate's got to say.
I don't know why I do it, causeit always makes me really angry,
but I feel like I probably needthat anger in order to get shit
done,
Sam (36:50):
'Cause all the shit you get done.
Emma (36:52):
Imagine how little get done without that.
Sam (36:57):
I think it's safe to say this song is really beloved of
Meat Loaf's most confused fansYes.
Emma (37:03):
Yes.
Sam (37:04):
So shall we rate this one Emma?
It's another Jim Steinman.
So we're rating from JimSteinman to Jim Fineman, all the
way down to Jim Declineman.
what is it?
Emma (37:15):
Is it?
another Fineman?
Sam (37:17):
I know where you're going with this.
It could be, it could have beena Steinman, couldn't it?
It could have been a Steinman,but it isn't.
Get Todd Rundgren to make pignoises with his guitar.
Emma (37:26):
Oh, yes.
Sam (37:27):
Have Jim actually produce Meat singing it?
Emma (37:30):
Yeah.
Get the piano going
Sam (37:32):
Find an excuse to wedge in another three minutes somewhere.
And that would've been aSteinman.
Yeah.
This is a Steinman in waiting,but right now it's just a, it's
a Jim Fineman.
Emma (37:42):
It's a Jim
Sam (37:44):
Jim Fineman.
So that was our songs thisepisode.
was, It was, did you enjoy them?
Did you have opinions on them?
I've gone a bit Fast Showhaven't I?
you like them sir?
Do you?
Let us know.
Chat out of hell@gmail.com.
Does she do email, sir?
Does Americans, Yeah, oof.
(38:10):
Let us know what you thoughtabout those
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Did you agree with our ratings?
Did you think we were talkingnonsense?
You can email us like thisperson has done.
It's Claire Muncaster.
Hi Claire.
Always a pleasure.
She says"This podcast makes meso happy".
Aw yeah.
I thought we could use that egoboost.
(38:30):
need that On the video for CryOver
Emma (38:32):
Oh, yeah yeah
Sam (38:33):
The the young man that looks halfway between Jim
Steinman and Meat Loaf Claire"says, maybe I'm naive, but I
don't think he looks like he'sspying on the woman.
I think he's like a guardianangel, checking if she's okay,
'cause she's crying so hard."Which a lovely,
Emma (38:48):
optimistic
Sam (38:48):
place to live, isn't it?
That
Emma (38:50):
the old, er, Jim Loafman
Sam (38:52):
The old Jim Loafman.
Yeah.
So Emma, what are our songsgonna be next time?
Emma (38:56):
Next time I'm gonna bring More Than You Deserve from Dead
Ringer.
Sam (39:00):
and I'm gonna zoom right to the other end of Meat Loaf's
career with one of his lateralbums, Hell in a Hand Basket,
which was not, we've not talkedabout Hell in a Hand Basket How.
So I'm gonna start our delvinginto that album with his cover
of The Mamas and the Papas'California Dreamin'.
Emma (39:15):
Lovely stuff.
Sam (39:16):
is it?
Emma (39:17):
Dunno.
Sam (39:17):
We'll find out and if you have opinions on those songs, do
let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts andanecdotes flying in.
Give us five stars on yourpodcast app of Choice.
Recommend us to the personsitting next to you on the bus.
That's a win-win.
'cause either it gets us a newlistener or it gets you a whole
bus seat to yourself.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingDr.
Kawashima's brain training onhis Nintendo DS?
(39:40):
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Any other thoughts, Emma?
Emma (39:43):
No.
No further thoughts?
Sam (39:45):
you've just gotta do your brain training for the day,
remembered.
He's still waiting.
You know that disembodiedJapanese head going
Emma (39:52):
sorry Dr.
Kawashima.
Sam (39:54):
He's so sad.
Emma (39:56):
Shit, I've not attended to my Nintendogs
Sam (39:58):
Oh, Emma.
The Nintendo R-S-P-C-A arecoming around.
Alright, everybody, go do yourbrain training.
We'll see you all in two moreweeks for another Chat out of
ell.
Bye Bye.
No, no, No.
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out of Hell, a podcast about the works of
Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman.
But if you're listening to this,then I reckon you probably know
that already, don't you?
Sam (00:11):
who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:13):
Meat Loaf was a singer and actor who was in the original
cast of the musical Hair.
He declined the opportunity tobe in the famous nude scene
stating"you got an extra$12 50to be in the nude scene, and I
didn't need an extra$12 50."Who's Jim Steinman?
Uh,
Sam (00:31):
Jim Steinman was a musician and composer whose first foray
into musical theatre was when hewas at college.
Where he wrote for a musicaladaptation of a Bertol Brecht
play
Emma (00:42):
Oh no.
Which one?
Sam (00:45):
A Man's a Man
Emma (00:47):
Oh, I didn't do that one.
Uh, Who are we?
uh,
Sam (00:51):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
And we are fans of Meat Loaf,Jim Steinman, and one of us
likes musical theatre and theother one not so much.
So this'll be all right, won'tit?
Emma (01:00):
Oh yeah.
Sam (01:01):
Welcome to Chat Out of Hell Bow.
Now, now, Now.
here we go again.
Emma (01:08):
Hey, Sam.
Sam (01:08):
Hi, Emma.
You alright?
Emma (01:09):
I'm not bad.
Thank you.
How are you?
Sam (01:11):
fine.
I'm just gonna adjust my ownvolume.
Emma (01:13):
Okay.
Sam (01:15):
Oh, there is that deep seductive tone that only I can
hear of my own head.
Emma (01:21):
Lovely.
Sam (01:21):
Oh yeah.
Emma (01:22):
What about my deep seductive tone?
Sam (01:24):
Easy now.
And if you'd like to hear Emma'sdeep seductive tones, you can
call oh eight nine one.
Emma (01:31):
Sexy time.
Sexy
Sam (01:31):
Is it oh eight nine?
I don't even remember
Emma (01:33):
can't remember.
Sam (01:34):
for sexy numbers was.
Do you think they still do sexy
Emma (01:38):
It's probably all like web based sexy web chat.
I do occasionally considertrying to take on that line of
work because I'm in the positionwhere I'd like to earn more
money, I don't really want ajob.
And I've considered things likeThe old sexy chat.
'Cause I'm a versatile woman andI could, I figured for the tape
(02:00):
I could send in our Christmasspecial from last year.
Sam (02:05):
You think they have audition tapes?
It's a self tape.
This one Is your
Emma (02:10):
the glamorous World
Sam (02:11):
be off screen reading the other part?
What are you wearing
Emma (02:16):
in the glamorous world that I imagine the sexy phone
line exists in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there will be an audition tomake sure that I can, bring the
goods.
Sam (02:28):
Yeah, if you want, if you want.
Oh, it
Emma (02:31):
Oh, it got weird again, didn't it?
Sam (02:32):
got weird.
This is Chat Out of Hell, whichis a Jim Steinman and Meat Loaf
discussion book club of apodcast.
So every episode we both bring asong written by Jim Steinman, or
performed by Meat for ourlisteners' delectation, we are
gonna listen to them, talk aboutthem, rate them on our patented
Meat Loaf or Jim Steinman songrating scales.
(02:53):
So we are talking about musicalsthis week.
We're talking about two songsthat Jim Steinman wrote for
musicals originally.
Emma, what have you brought?
Emma (03:02):
I've brought No Matter What, which comes from the
Whistle Down the Windsoundtrack, But the most famous
version is by boy band Boyzoneso we're gonna start with that
one.
What have you brought, Sam?
Sam (03:15):
Well, if you can get past Emma's incredible enthusiasm for
No Matter What by Boyzone, we'rethen gonna listen to, In the
Land of the Pig, the Butcher isKing.
Emma (03:25):
is a title and a half,
Sam (03:26):
Which Meat Loaf sang on Bat out of Hell Three and is from
the Batman the Musicalsoundtrack which was a project
that Jim Steinman worked on,which somehow never happened.
we'll learn about that
Emma (03:39):
but it sounds like it could have been so good.
Sam (03:41):
Oh, good.
Well, we'll find out how good itcould have been.
But we're gonna listen to Emma'sfirst.
So listeners, if you cantolerate it, please go find No
Matter What by Boyzone,
Emma (03:53):
there is a video.
So we will be commenting
Sam (03:55):
Oh, crikey.
Go find No Matter What byBoyzone.
Find it on your YouTube or yourSpotify, or your copy of Now
That's What I Call Music 1996.
We're gonna play a short clip ofit now.
That's the end of that sentence,
Emma (04:24):
that was No Matter What by Boyzone.
All I really have to say aboutthis is chch-a-chch-ah-ah
Sam (04:33):
I'd completely forgotten that the intro
Emma (04:41):
it's so bad.
Sam (04:42):
I've probably not heard that since 1998.
Emma (04:45):
No.
It used to be on the radio a
Sam (04:48):
It was, yeah.
the era when boy bands stillwalked the
Emma (04:52):
Were you a boy band kind of a boy,
Sam (04:54):
Was I a boy band kind of a boy.
Emma.
I was gonna say great question.
Um, no,
Emma (05:01):
no, no, I dunno if it comes across, I wasn't a boy
band kind of a girl
Sam (05:07):
You weren't queuing up outside your local arena
screaming, holding a big cardsaying, Ronan, I love
Emma (05:14):
No, My thing.
Sam (05:18):
Did you know that this was a Jim Steinman as a kid?
Emma (05:23):
I didn't know it was a Jim Steinman until I bought the Meat
Loaf's Greatest Hits album Idon't think this sounds like a
Jim Steinman song, and I dunnoif it's because it's been run
through the boy band machine.
When I heard it on the Meat Loafalbum, I was very surprised.
Sam (05:39):
So Meat Loaf did a cover, did he, is this spoiler alert?
Emma (05:42):
Yeah, spoiler alert.
Meat Loaf did a cover,
Sam (05:44):
we'll be listening to in a bit
Emma (05:46):
And he oh, he has things to say about it.
Oh, wonderful.
Sam (05:48):
Oh, wonderful.
Emma (05:50):
So I didn't realize that it was a Steinman song until I
heard the Meat Loaf cover.
And I don't, again, spoilers, Idon't particularly like the Meat
Loaf version either.
There's just something about itthat doesn't have the drama that
I want in a Meat Loaf strokeSteinman song., Perhaps it's
because it was run through theboy band filter and that kind of
turned me
Sam (06:08):
They're so young, Emma, they're so young.
they're children.
Emma (06:12):
they are exploited children.
And one thing that I've noticedall this week while I've been
listening to this and doing bitsof research on it is when I've
been kicking back and watchingthe TV at night on one of the
Sky channels, there is going tobe a documentary called No
Matter What that he is talkingto the remaining members of
Boyzone about that time and thedifficult period that it was for
(06:36):
them.
I think they talked to LouisWalsh, who was their manager as
well.
And I don't think that they'veended on good terms.
So I suspect it was quite adifficult time for those
children.
those young men Alongside thepotential exploitation that may
have been going on, they're alsolike these young guys that have
come from Ireland who aresuddenly surrounded by screaming
(06:59):
girls.
That's gotta be a head fuck,hasn't it?
Sam (07:02):
Yeah.
Emma (07:03):
Nobody comes out of that unscathed.
No, you look at like, the guysfrom Take That, who went through
the
Sam (07:09):
kind of Yeah, yeah.
The charts were full of men withno shirts.
Yes.
Singing in four part closeharmony, largely insipid songs
about how you are nice and Iwant to do a kiss with you.
Emma (07:20):
Yes.
It was designed to tap into theteenage girl psyche I hate it.
One Christmas I worked at HMVMeadowhall and we had a really
strict playlist of stuff thatwas allowed to be put on in the
store.
And oh my.
God, that's a special kind oftorture.
I think that year there was aRobbie Williams
Sam (07:43):
Was that when he did, like, Robbie Williams covers Frank
Sinatra.
Emma (07:46):
Oh I can't remember.
I've tried to block Robbie Butthere was definitely a Westlife
or something out at the timethat was monotonous dirge pop.
Mawkish, that's the word I'mgroping for.
Mawkish and that's how I feelabout
Sam (08:05):
So there we go.
That's our context for how weare talking
Emma (08:09):
this
Sam (08:10):
song.
Emma (08:11):
I say all of this, but if you look at the chart it was
number one in about 18countries.
Yeah.
Which is huge.
So, you know
Sam (08:21):
yeah.
We've just spent a lot ofepisodes talking about Meat Loaf
songs that got to like, number84 or something, or didn't even
chart,
Emma (08:29):
but this smashed it.
Sam (08:30):
absolutely smashed it.
Emma (08:32):
Perhaps we should look at the video first.
Sam (08:33):
had proper flashbacks there.
Emma (08:35):
It's so nineties.
Sam (08:37):
It ticks all the
Emma (08:38):
It's got, it ticks all the boxes.
It, it really does it.
It is.
Yeah.
I Spy 90s Music Video
Sam (08:42):
You've got the band themselves of course.
And you've got a bunch of peopleof appropriately different
ethnicities and
Emma (08:48):
Yes.
It's so right on
Sam (08:51):
wearing a liney,
Emma (08:52):
everybody is dressed in white
Sam (08:55):
which in the context of Whistle Down the Wind, which is
a musical about
Emma (08:58):
Yeah.
Suddenly So it's all a bitJesus.
There's definitely a Jesusfigure in there.
Yeah.
Sam (09:04):
Somebody's building a big hot air balloon
Emma (09:06):
the indoor hot air balloon, that doesn't, yeah.
It's a nonsense.
Sam (09:10):
And then at the end, all the silver tickets from the
Crystal Maze rain down on
Emma (09:16):
So they've lost all the prizes'cause they've collected
too many silver tickets.
Not enough gold ones.
Enjoy that, So the Boyzone videowas directed by Michael
Geoghegan and it was filmed atthe Roundhouse in London.
And I guess it's big enough
Sam (09:30):
inflate a big balloon in it.
Emma (09:31):
An alternate version was later produced for the tie in
for Notting Hill'cause of courseit was
Sam (09:37):
on, this was in
Emma (09:38):
for that.
it's the same kind of video, butthey had a load of clips from
the film mixed in as well.
Sam (09:43):
Yeah, I remember that one.
Yeah, like screens going by inthe background that had a little
bit of, was it Andi McDowell?
Emma (09:49):
No, that was Four Weddings
Sam (09:51):
four.
Was that Four Weddings.
the same, isn't Julia Roberts.
Yeah.
Emma (09:55):
They were basically
Sam (09:57):
Oh, I'm just dusting off the late nineties here.
Aren't we?
Emma (10:01):
formative years.
Um, It was originally writtenfor Whistle Down the Wind, which
was a collaboration between JimSteinman and Andrew Lloyd
Webber.
Yep.
Who feel like weird, chums, butchummy they were
Sam (10:14):
do they feel that weird?
Emma (10:15):
I don't think I'd've made that prior to us doing this.
Sam (10:19):
Creepy Obsessives hanging out in basements writing big,
dramatic,
Emma (10:23):
Musical theatre kids, aren't they?
Yeah.
That's what Jim So they,collaborated on Whistle Down the
Wind and the version that's usedon Whistle Down the Wind is
totally different.
Sam (10:34):
How did this fall into the hands of Boyzone then?
Emma (10:37):
Right.
Sam (10:38):
And by I do mean fall into their hands.
How did they intercept the lyricsheets?
Emma (10:43):
They wanted to put out a tie-in album featuring songs
from Whistle Down the Wind.
But done by big artists.
And we'll probably be comingback to that album at some point
Sam (10:54):
cause Bonnie Tyler's got a song on it.
Emma (10:56):
'cause Bonnie's got a song in it.
and so they wanted a big bandto, to take
Sam (10:59):
some.
Right.
So they approached various bigartists of the day and Boyzone
just happened to be in
Emma (11:04):
that.
Yeah.
It was rewritten for them.
So the version that we've justheard now is their version.
It's also the same version thatMeat Loaf sings.
But the actual version fromWhistle Down the Wind is very
different.
Cause it sung by children I'mnot gonna go too deeply into the
story of Whistle Down the Wind,but I will do a really basic
cover.
Whistle Down the Wind tells thestory of three children in 1950s
(11:26):
Louisiana, who discover anescaped convict, the Man, their
barn.
They believe that he's JesusChrist.
And they pledge to protect himfrom the adult world, who
instead see him as a dangerouscriminal.
Swallow, who's the eldest child,develops feelings for the man.
The children's secret becomesimpossible to keep, leading to
confrontation between faith andreality that culminates in
(11:49):
tragic consequences.
Sam (11:51):
It's basically the first scene of Great Expecations
Emma (11:53):
Yeah.
Sam (11:53):
with extra Jesus,
Emma (11:54):
a lot of extra Jesus.
And there's all sorts ofdifferent storylines that's the
basic plot.
Cool.
So it's some kids that arestupid enough to believe that an
escaped convict is Jesus.
Sam (12:06):
And this is them singing about how they can't deny that
Emma (12:09):
this.
Yeah.
This is the end of act one.
And they're singing about howthey'll protect Also, you get
like the other villagers singingalong, in about the crimes and
how they want to protect thevillage it's worth a listen.
I think.
Sam (12:23):
All right.
Well, we are gonna listen to itnow.
Listeners, do what you like.
(12:45):
Everything's just fallen intoplace.
the music was Lloyd Webber.
The lyrics were Jim.
Yes.
So when you take one of thesongs from the musical and strip
out half the lyrics and givethat to Boyzone, of course
there's no Jim left.
Yeah.
It's just generic insipid I loveyou stuff.
But that was quite Jim.
Emma (13:02):
It's certainly more Jim
Sam (13:03):
It's got wrestling with the devil in it, emma,
Emma (13:06):
is very Jim, isn't
Sam (13:07):
and actually the trio of lines,"if only tears were
laughter, if only night was day,if only prayers were answered".
That's such a Jim line,
Emma (13:15):
you could hear that in a proper Jim
Sam (13:18):
Jim, forever young, raging against God.
My huge disdain for all childactors aside.
There.
Technology yet, hasn't providedrobot child actors to make them
more tolerable.
So,
Emma (13:33):
yeah.
Come on, technology.
get a move on.
Sam (13:37):
I quite like that.
Emma (13:38):
I It's all right.
It's not for me.
Sam (13:41):
me.
Contextually it's the first actshowstopper, so draws on in that
Emma (13:45):
Yeah.
I have heard one or two of theother songs in that act and
there's some that I really
Sam (13:53):
Oh, good.
Emma (13:53):
that I'm sure we will pick up on'cause they are also
covered by Meat Loaf and BonnieThe musical wasn't very
successful on its first release.
It premiered in New York offBroadway in 96.
And'cause it wasn't a hit, itnever made it to Broadway.
Lloyd Rose from the WashingtonPost said"it's just dull.
Steinman and Lloyd Webber'sdiffering styles of gothic
(14:15):
intensity might have beenexpected to be mutually
enhancing, but in fact theycancel each other out." So it
was reworked after that.
Yeah.
And it was brought over toLondon in 98 when it ran from
1998 to 2001 was performed 1044times and was generally a lot
better received.
(14:36):
I think Jim quite enjoyedworking with Andrew Lloyd
Webber.
Sam (14:39):
Well I think we've mentioned this before.
Lloyd Weber wanted him to do thelyrics on Phantom.
Emma (14:43):
Yes.
Sam (14:44):
but he was too busy working with Bonnie.
He made the right choice.
Emma (14:48):
I think so.
so, yeah that's the musical,
Sam (14:50):
an interesting journey that song's been on, isn't it?
Emma (14:53):
And it's not over yet.
Because Meat Loaf does aversion.
Sam (15:11):
Now.
And that's a funny joke forthose of you who listened all
the way through,
Emma (15:18):
Oh God,
Sam (15:20):
that's a bit of a slog, innit.
That's definitely Jim Steinman.
One minute, 25 of intro, aminute and a half of outro.
After the intro, it comes inwith the sparkly noise off the
Toys R Us adverts.
Emma (15:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim's got his Christmas, noisesout, hasn't he?
God, that's a slog.
It's one that I skip on thealbum.
Sam (15:45):
Okay.
I was enjoying it at first.
Emma (15:48):
It's a mashup of two songs from the soundtrack.
of course Meat Loaf couldn'tjust do the normal song so he's
got to mash it up with anothertrack that's called Home by Now.
Yep.
Which is what you get at theintro and the outro.
Sam (15:58):
Is, I assume the kids saying,"oh, we should be home by
now.
Let's not go in that barn."
Emma (16:04):
there's a disappointing lack of chk-a-chk-ah-ah
Sam (16:07):
Once he got into No Matter What I was quite enjoying the
first couple of verses.
'cause he sounded like a scaredman in the dark.
Ploughing on no matter whathappens.
But then he got too confident Orconfident.
Better way.
He got too powerful Emma.
Emma (16:25):
Meat Loaf wasn't thrilled that the big song had been
offered to Boyzone.
And he said,"this keepshappening to me.
I was supposed to be the onethat recorded No Matter What,
not Boyzone.
Okay, they did a big hitversion, but come on, are you
kidding?
It was like nothing.
(16:46):
No body, no soul.
Can you imagine what I would'vedone with that song?" And then,
imagine No more because he didit anyway.
And had to mash it up.
Sam (16:57):
such a whiner, isn't he?
Emma (16:59):
Oh, he really is.
Sam (17:00):
Oh, I never get anything I want except all this money and
fame and
Emma (17:04):
Yeah.
There, there's,
Sam (17:07):
I this was mid eighties Meat Loaf, I'd understand him
being a bit sulky.
But this is but this is
Emma (17:13):
post.
Yeah, this is post bat two He'sin a good place.
Sam (17:17):
I quite like his version, but it goes on too much.
any song that Jim has writtenfor somebody who isn't Meat that
he then covers.
Emma (17:24):
It doesn't sound right, does it?
Sam (17:25):
It doesn't work.
No.
Interesting.
He should listen to when Jimtells him what's for him and
what isn't.
Emma (17:31):
It, goes on too much and not in a fun way like some of
the other songs do.
Do you wanna hear what thepeople of the internet had to
Sam (17:37):
please.
Emma (17:39):
Opinions vary.
Raquel said"this song was forthe Andrew Lloyd Weber musical
Whistle Down the Wind.
Meat Loaf also did a version ofit," So this is commenting on
the Boyzone version.
Don't listen to it.
It'll make your ears bleed.
I love this song so much and itwas lovely to see them sing it
live." So she's obviously beento a Boyzone concert some point
but doesn't like the Meat Loafversion.
Sam (17:59):
I'm happy that she's happy.
Emma (18:01):
Conversely, Iris Brandt 2 9 5 9 said,"no one can sing this
song better than Meat.
I love it.
And goosebumps at the end".
Sam (18:11):
A real spectrum of opinions
Emma (18:12):
Yes.
Sam (18:13):
Has anyone chipped in to say, actually those 11-year-old
drama school children sing itbest?
Emma (18:18):
I haven't got that.
A lot of people feel reallyemotional about the song, so I'm
not gonna diss
Sam (18:23):
not gonna yuk anyone's yum.
Emma (18:25):
Lot, lots of people cite the Boyzone version of being
like really meaningful thecomments.
So it's got'em through toughtimes.
It's been played at weddings andfunerals and stuff, so I can't
be cruel it, but it is mawkishand cheesy.
Sam (18:37):
Is.
And I think we'd both be lyingif we pretended we didn't have
something like that in our brainsomewhere.
That is an objectively bad songthat we still have a
Emma (18:47):
lot to.
Yeah.
Sam (18:49):
Is it time to rate this song then, Emma?
Emma (18:50):
It's time to rate this song.
this
Sam (18:52):
up.
Good.
'cause we've been talking aboutit for nearly an hour
Emma (18:53):
Yeah.
I'm exhausted and
Sam (18:55):
we've got a lot to go.
This is a song by Jim Steinman,so we rate these on our patented
wind whistlingly good JimSteinman song rating scale,
which runs from Jim Steinman, upat the top to Jim Fineman, for
his middle of the road songs,all the way down to Jim
Declineman for his very, verybad songs.
(19:15):
Some of them are dodgy uh, butwhat's this?
Emma (19:19):
It's a Fineman, I guess.
Sam (19:20):
the Boyzone version, I would decline.
Emma (19:23):
Yeah.
version
Sam (19:24):
in the context of the show has a bit more of the Jim to it.
It's fine.
It's not offensive.
Meat's version is, well,lyrically it's the Boyzone
Meat's version is betterproduced, but put it through the
Bat out of Hell Two Meatmachine.
Is that gonna sound good?
(19:45):
Can you even conceive of it as aBat out of Hell Two era song?
Emma (19:48):
It's definitely not a Jim Steinman.
Sam (19:50):
No, I'm not saying that.
No.
But
Emma (19:52):
I'd be happy to decline the whole lot.
Okay.
But.
I appreciate.
I don't have much time for theboy band stuff, and that has
very much coloured myperception.
Sam (20:02):
The things we've declined so far.
Hulk Hogan's theme, the Want Ad,More, Requiem Metal,
Emma (20:11):
Oh God.
Sam (20:11):
And all of the Dream Engine.
Does it share that illustriouscompany?
Emma (20:16):
It's not as shit as those, is it?
Sam (20:18):
No,
Emma (20:18):
it's a fine.
Sam (20:19):
It's fine.
Yeah.
This is a,
Emma (20:20):
It's inoffensive,
Sam (20:21):
It's a Jim.
Fine.
Fineman.
fine.
Emma (20:26):
Good.
So, Sam, tell us what you'vebrought.
Sam (20:29):
I've brought in the Land of the Pig, the Butcher is King,
which Meat Loaf recorded on hisalbum Bat Out of Hell Three, and
was originally written forBatman the Musical, which was
never performed.
So listeners, go away, find thaton your YouTubes or your
Spotifys or your localslaughterhouse.
I guess there's no video for it,it is just an album track.
(20:50):
So look at something else whileyou're listening.
We are gonna listen to it nowand we'll see you very soon.
Oink oink.
there you go.
(21:11):
Do you feel like you're in aregional rock rock club in the
late two thousands?
Emma (21:15):
That
Sam (21:16):
What?
Emma (21:17):
Really?
Sam (21:18):
really hate it?
Emma (21:19):
It's quite two thousands, isn't it?
Sam (21:20):
It's very two thousands.
Emma (21:21):
Yeah.
Some of the lyrics made mechuckle.
Sam (21:23):
you not feel much better than having listened to No
Matter What?
You listen to some hard rock,
Emma (21:29):
definitely a lot more rock.
"With all that we can take andpocket.
No one needs to know we are theplug and they're the socket.
Give us the juice and we'll go."
Sam (21:43):
They're good, but there are some better lyrics.
Here's one.
"We know what to say.
If you stand in our way, don'tstand in our way."
Emma (21:54):
It's not Jim's finest set of lyrics.
Sam (21:57):
No.
An incomplete song from anincomplete show.
And this is the context of Batout of Hell Three where
something happens, Jim doesn'twanna play, or he's too ill, or
he is pretending to be ill andhe just throws Meat some old
photocopies of stuff had lyingaround and off you go with it.
(22:17):
Another set of lyrics though,they're the big dogs waiting for
their mother.
Come to the confessional, so Ican tell you all to bugger off,"
it, I love it because it's, likea lot of Anglophile Americans,
Jim still doesn't quite work outhow British swearing works.
works.
Yeah.
We Would never use bugger off inthat context.
(22:38):
I'm so mad and angry and I wantyou to bugger off.
Emma (22:43):
How had I missed that?
That's amazing.
Sam (22:46):
I do enjoy the audacity of rhyming bugger with mother.
Emma (22:50):
Yeah.
That's not a rhyme.
Mother bugger.
Oh wow.
Sam (22:54):
And just like other Jim songs this is a recurring
problem with Jim.
We had I'd do Anything for Lovebeing the name of the song and
the lyric is, I would doanything for here the song is In
the Land of the Pig, all thelyrics refer to pigs, plural.
Emma (23:10):
I liked the noises at the end.
That noise at
Sam (23:12):
the end.
They were fun, Yeah.
It's big and it's crashing andit's sort of thing you've come
to the Meat Loaf shop
Emma (23:19):
Yeah
Sam (23:19):
It might be the own brand version, but it's the product
that you're after.
In the context of Meat's stagepersona, you can picture him
stalking around the stage beingthe big cartoon villain of
himself being brought on by twoattendants in a cage as Jim
wanted him to do, Breaking outand singing this animalistic and
(23:41):
Yeah.
Fun fact for you.
This song is the last time ToddRundgren gets credited on a Meat
Loaf song.
Emma (23:47):
Really?
Sam (23:47):
Yeah.
This is Todd's final appearance
Emma (23:50):
this is Todd's swan song
Sam (23:53):
He's one of the background vocalists.
Emma (23:55):
Wow.
Sam (23:56):
A fun but not particularly deep fact.
Emma (23:59):
Do you think he'd he'd had enough after this bullshit?
Sam (24:03):
think he got out when the going was This is from Batman,
the musical.
Emma.
There's two versions of thisfloating about, this is
obviously the one that wasrecorded properly in a studio.
There is Jim's demo versionWe'll learn about Batman the
Musical in a minute, but we allknow it didn't happen.
And after it hadn't happened,Jim released some of his demos
to the internet.
(24:24):
So have a listen to this.
Let's see if it changes yourmind.
Even on the demo, he got thepigs in at the end, so you're
clear what the song is about.
Emma (24:41):
it.
Love it.
How'd
Sam (24:43):
you feel about that
Emma (24:44):
I like that more.
Sam (24:45):
Do you?
Yeah.
Interesting.
I don't like it less
Emma (24:50):
the drama in it is better.
Sam (24:52):
Yeah.
This is theatre Jim, isn't
Emma (24:53):
This theatre.
It's theatre Jim.
But if you think back to likeBat of Hell Two, that's very
theatrical.
it really benefits from that.
I think stylistically it's beentaken too far into I guess what
was fashionable at the time inthe naughties.
Sam (25:09):
Bat out of Hell Three has been criticized for being too nu
metally.
Emma (25:13):
And doesn't work.
Sam (25:14):
Yeah.
Emma (25:15):
if Meat Loaf had've sung this version, I think it
would've been mad and
Sam (25:19):
That is Jim hammering away at the keyboard with his lovely
chord progressions, which arereally good.
The piano accompaniment, pianoled accompaniment I find much
better than the guitar in theMeat version.
So Meet said to our lovely saucemc wall.
When he was recording hisversion of the song, that's when
he realized he was making a Batout of Hell Record.
(25:42):
Sorry, I didn't mean to make youspit your drink out.
And then he's also dissed Jim'sversion.
Yeah.
He says Jim's version is"veryWest End Broadway.
So Oklahoma that it'sridiculous." It was for a
Broadway show, so I'm not sureyou can criticize it too hard
for that, but it's quitePhantomy, I think.
(26:04):
Have you seen Phantom?
you seen enough of Phantom
Emma (26:07):
to talking about
Sam (26:08):
Yeah.
Emma (26:08):
It's big villain action.
And that's what you want from a,Batman musical, isn't it?
Something a bit camp.
And I'm on board for that.
Sam (26:17):
So let's talk about Batman the Musical and why nobody's
ever seen it.
We're gonna go with the quiz,Emma.
Emma (26:23):
Okay.
Sam (26:23):
We're gonna start with the
Emma (26:24):
How has Mr.
Blobby fucked over Batman theMusical?
Sam (26:28):
Put yourself into the shoes of a Broadway producer.
Jim's just played this for you.
But what do you think the song'sabout?
Is it about A), the corruptofficials who run Gotham City
gleefully singing about how theylove being Is it B) A song by
super villain, the Butcher,singing to his gang, the pigs,
(26:48):
who all dress in pink with pigmasks and only say pigs, pigs,
pigs.
Or is it C) A song by thecriminal Joe Chill about how
he's gonna do all his crimes toGotham City, but ending with him
falling into the radioactiveguns that turns him into the
Joker.
Emma (27:06):
I hope that it's A but gone.
Sam (27:12):
You've gotta gimme an answer.
Emma (27:13):
I'm giving the answer A the first one.
That's what I think.
That's what I hope it is.
Sam (27:18):
three one to you.
This series well done.
Yeah.
Emma (27:21):
Oh, good.
Sam (27:22):
My God, do you know.
I have lost sleep this weektrying to work out how to wedge
Mr.
Blobby fucking this song is analbatross around my neck.
Emma (27:36):
I love that you've done this to
Sam (27:37):
yourself
Emma (27:37):
that you've painted yourself into this stupid
corner.
Sam (27:40):
I thought, oh, maybe there was like a Batman Mr.
Blobby crossover comic orsomething at some point.
Were they both in, in the Beanoor,
Emma (27:48):
What is Mr.
Blobby part of the DC Universe?
Sam (27:51):
Well it turns out he isn't, Emma.
Maybe there was a Batman villaincalled the Blob or work with
that.
No.
No.
Emma (27:59):
Batman's too gritty for that shit.
Sam (28:02):
Well, they've got like clay.
Oh fuck.
Oh.
So yeah, you saw straightthrough the gang of people
dressed in pink who go aroundsaying their own name.
'Cause that's what
Emma (28:12):
that's blobby.
Blobby, blobby.
Sam (28:13):
yeah.
Yeah.
And Joe Chill falling into theradioactive gunge that makes him
the Joker.
All of that is true, but I justadded gunge.
'cause that's what Mr.
Blobby would cover people Okay.
So you're trying to lead me downthat Yeah.
Oh that's an element.
So, I hate you Mr.
Blobby.
Emma (28:30):
I love that it's doing this to you this time.
Sam (28:32):
Yes.
We know very little about theplot of Batman the Musical, but
we do know that this song was bythe corrupt people who run
Gotham singing about how theylove being so corrupt.
Oh
Emma (28:43):
such exposition.
Sam (28:45):
Yeah, it presumably is one of the opening songs.
Batman the Musical wascommissioned by Warner Brothers
in the early two thousands,music and lyrics by Jim
Steinman, story by theplaywright David Ives.
The New York Post is my sourcefor a lot of this, and they are
a despicable rag, so might notbe true, but their report is
that in the late nineties,Warner started looking enviously
(29:08):
over at what Disney were gettingwith the Lion King stage
musical.
And there was the Beauty and theBeast Show.
Yeah.
And they thought, we want apiece of that.
So they turned to Jim Steinmanto make that happen.
Emma (29:18):
It's a weird leap
Sam (29:19):
that isn't contextually it makes a little sense., In this
timeframe, Jim is working onTanz der Vampire Yeah.
Over in Germany, which was asuccess in the original German,
less so the American We'll getonto that in a minute.
But obviously he's just come offBat out of Hell, he's worked
with Lloyd Webber in the past,he's just been doing Whistle
Down the Wind, so he is got thecred.
Right.
Jim has opinions on Batman.
(29:41):
Batman is the only greatsuperhero in my opinion.
I've always loved Batman'causehe's really human and is the way
he is because he saw his parentsbeing slaughtered." Other people
might have said, murdered,killed, slaughtered.
Emma (29:53):
Slaughtered.
Sam (29:53):
He's a total psychotic, neurotic, non-functioning human
being who...
a playboy who has a totallysuperficial, silly life by day
and by night, gets dressed up incod pieces, fetishistic vinyl
with enormous nipples.
"And he goes out with Robin onthese adventures.
I don't think you could findanything kinkier.
And yet he's a hero.
And it's that combination that'sreally cool.
(30:15):
The complexity of the humanelement, the vulnerability and
the power, and just sheervisceral, fun and excitement
combined of the gothictransfigured image."
Emma (30:24):
Ooh,
Sam (30:25):
Yeah.
And they went, yeah.
All right.
You'll do
Emma (30:29):
I can see if Warner Brothers were trying to
replicate the success ofDisney's Lion King musical then
it sounds odd to say that theygot Jim on board, but if they're
trying to do that with Batman,then it makes perfect sense to
get Jim on board.
Sam (30:42):
Even more sense when I tell you that Tim Burton was attached
to direct.
Someone describes the idea ofthe setting as they're gonna
have Gotham City Germany in thethirties.
Cabaret, corruption everywhere,
Emma (30:56):
all
Sam (30:56):
that
Emma (30:57):
This sounds like a musical that I would go and see.
Sam (30:59):
New York Post is quoting a source that's quoting Tim
Burton.
He's not pleased with the goofy,campy turn the franchise took
with Batman Forever and Batmanand Robin, both of which were
directed by Joel Schumacher."Didn't need to mention that,
just could have named the films.
Yeah we're gonna go after JoelSchumacher He wants to
reestablish his original vision.
His major impulse is to redeemthe soul of the Batman series."
(31:23):
Yeah.
And then Jim chipped in to say"it's more like his first two
movies than any of the otherBatman movies.
It's very dark and gothic, butreally wildly funny.
It was my dream that he do this"and then we don't really hear
anything about it after thatpoint.
Warners pulls the plug in 2004.
Emma (31:40):
Yeah.
Sam (31:41):
For one of three possible reasons.
Possibly because Batman Begins,was about to come out in cinema
and they didn't wanna dilute andconfuse the franchise?
Possibly it's because it wasrubbish.
Possibly it's because theyrealized what Jim Steinman was
like to work with.
We just don't know
Emma (32:00):
it could be a combination of the three,
Sam (32:02):
Possibly all three.
Since then, Tim Burton has alsodistanced himself from it.
He claims he was never reallyattached.
What he said was,"theyapproached me about that and I
was interested because I likedJim Steinman.
I met him a few times thought hedid some great stuff.
But at the end of the day,seeing this guy prancing around
and singing, I dunno, look whathappened to Spider-Man." I what?
Emma (32:27):
So the King of the Goths didn't want to play anymore.
The King
Sam (32:30):
of the Goths didn't want to...
musicals are about guys prancingaround
Emma (32:35):
and singing Yeah.
Sam (32:36):
The title of the email should have been a yes or no.
Tim talking about Spider-Manthere, that's a reference to
Spider-Man (32:43):
turn Off the Dark, The infamous Spider-Man musical
that was written by Bono and theEdge out of, off of U2.
Do you remember news of that?
Emma (32:54):
Wasn't it catastrophic?
Did it also lead to the KimmySchmidt?
Sam (32:59):
Kimmy Schmidt has that joke about Spider-Man 2
Spider-Men yeah.
That he is a joke about this.
It came up in the news a lotbecause about every three months
in rehearsal, and then in theearly performances, somebody
would catastrophically injurethemselves
Emma (33:13):
was one of those doomed ones, wasn't it?
Sam (33:15):
It's got reputation for being this massive, colossal
flop, it ran for about fouryears.
Yeah.
I didn't realize that till Ilooked it up, but yeah, like it
just lives on, in pop culturememory as this awful production
that failed and broke a lot ofactors' legs.
But it also didn't even openuntil 2011.
(33:35):
So Tim was just covering his ownarse there.
This song was actually alsopresent in another musical that
you have seen.
Emma (33:42):
Was it in Bat out of Hell?
Sam (33:44):
It was in the original.
Emma (33:46):
The original version Bat out of Hell.
Sam (33:47):
And I can see that working there.
Obviously, that's Falco singing
Emma (33:50):
Yes.
Sam (33:51):
Nahahah, I run the city.
I'm so evil.
Hahaha.
Yeah, it's a big evil villainsong.
it's good.
Emma (33:58):
love a big evil villain.
it's another one of those songsof Jim's that Meat Loaf has
covered at the wrong time, likeTrain of Love.
Sam (34:09):
Yeah
Emma (34:09):
the Jim demo version of that is on my playlist.
Sam (34:12):
Yeah.
Emma (34:13):
so much fun.
Sam (34:14):
it's
Emma (34:14):
it's gorgeous and silly
Sam (34:16):
And poor old man Meat singing Train of Love
Emma (34:18):
Sounds terrible.
And in this one, it's the wrongera because he's got a bit nu
metal, which doesn't work
Sam (34:25):
Yeah.
I think this could have workedon Braver than We Are, even with
his fucked up
Emma (34:31):
Voice
Sam (34:33):
Copyright Jim Steinman Because it is a song about an
old.
Villains.
Emma (34:39):
Yeah.
Sam (34:39):
I the penguin and I'm all horrible
Emma (34:40):
It could have worked on Bat Two.
Sam (34:42):
It could have worked on Bat Two.
Yeah.
About the only place in hiscareer it couldn't have worked
was
Emma (34:47):
where it was
Sam (34:49):
Bat Three
Emma (34:49):
or
Sam (34:50):
possibly a couple of albums after that.
Yeah.
Emma (34:52):
Bit rough.
Sam (34:52):
Bit rough.
Bit rough.
There are seven songs off theBatman musical that Jim put
demos out and couple more ofthem were covered by Meat Loaf.
So we'll return to the Batmanmusical, possibly in another
series where I've got adifferent novelty pop here to
try and wedge in there.
Would you like to hear what thepeople of the internet think?
Emma (35:13):
I really would.
Yes.
Sam (35:15):
No strong opinions on either versions.
on Meat Loaf's version at LittleScissors, that's not scissors.
That's like scissors, butwithout the C.
Emma (35:24):
Okay.
Sam (35:25):
My favorite song,
Emma (35:26):
It's a bold choice.
How many other songs have youheard?
Sam (35:32):
And that's a comment from two years ago as well.
Not even like when it first cameout.
Emma (35:37):
It's a weird choice
Sam (35:38):
and crazy mofo in a magic box.
Emma (35:42):
Oh
Sam (35:43):
"I love this song.
Take that everyone who says MeatLoaf songs are girly.
Who
Emma (35:48):
saying that?
Of all the criticisms of MeatLoaf songs, I don't think I'd
have ever gone for girly.
Sam (35:55):
isn't it?
All that motorbiking
Emma (35:56):
and all those motorbikes are dead girly.
Sam (35:59):
All that.
All that.
Doing it with ladies.
So girly
Emma (36:03):
Is this what Andrew Tate's doing to the world?
Because doesn't he, have athought that if a man enjoys sex
with a woman, then he's gay.
Sam (36:11):
seem to know a lot about Andrew Tate, Emma.
Emma (36:14):
I'm oddly fascinated.
Every so often, No, does nothingfor me.
Sam (36:19):
I assumed it wouldn't, That's I made the joke.
Emma (36:21):
Every so often I find myself delving back into the
artist formally known as Twitterto go and get some like, full on
hardcore hate to just see whatthe hate is doing out there.
What's
Sam (36:34):
the so
Emma (36:36):
I'll go and look at there.
There's a couple of comediansthat I go and have a look at.
and then I'll go and have aquick look and see what Mr.
Tate's got to say.
I don't know why I do it, causeit always makes me really angry,
but I feel like I probably needthat anger in order to get shit
done,
Sam (36:50):
'Cause all the shit you get done.
Emma (36:52):
Imagine how little get done without that.
Sam (36:57):
I think it's safe to say this song is really beloved of
Meat Loaf's most confused fansYes.
Emma (37:03):
Yes.
Sam (37:04):
So shall we rate this one Emma?
It's another Jim Steinman.
So we're rating from JimSteinman to Jim Fineman, all the
way down to Jim Declineman.
what is it?
Emma (37:15):
Is it?
another Fineman?
Sam (37:17):
I know where you're going with this.
It could be, it could have beena Steinman, couldn't it?
It could have been a Steinman,but it isn't.
Get Todd Rundgren to make pignoises with his guitar.
Emma (37:26):
Oh, yes.
Sam (37:27):
Have Jim actually produce Meat singing it?
Emma (37:30):
Yeah.
Get the piano going
Sam (37:32):
Find an excuse to wedge in another three minutes somewhere.
And that would've been aSteinman.
Yeah.
This is a Steinman in waiting,but right now it's just a, it's
a Jim Fineman.
Emma (37:42):
It's a Jim
Sam (37:44):
Jim Fineman.
So that was our songs thisepisode.
was, It was, did you enjoy them?
Did you have opinions on them?
I've gone a bit Fast Showhaven't I?
you like them sir?
Do you?
Let us know.
Chat out of hell@gmail.com.
Does she do email, sir?
Does Americans, Yeah, oof.
(38:10):
Let us know what you thoughtabout those
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Did you agree with our ratings?
Did you think we were talkingnonsense?
You can email us like thisperson has done.
It's Claire Muncaster.
Hi Claire.
Always a pleasure.
She says"This podcast makes meso happy".
Aw yeah.
I thought we could use that egoboost.
(38:30):
need that On the video for CryOver
Emma (38:32):
Oh, yeah yeah
Sam (38:33):
The the young man that looks halfway between Jim
Steinman and Meat Loaf Claire"says, maybe I'm naive, but I
don't think he looks like he'sspying on the woman.
I think he's like a guardianangel, checking if she's okay,
'cause she's crying so hard."Which a lovely,
Emma (38:48):
optimistic
Sam (38:48):
place to live, isn't it?
That
Emma (38:50):
the old, er, Jim Loafman
Sam (38:52):
The old Jim Loafman.
Yeah.
So Emma, what are our songsgonna be next time?
Emma (38:56):
Next time I'm gonna bring More Than You Deserve from Dead
Ringer.
Sam (39:00):
and I'm gonna zoom right to the other end of Meat Loaf's
career with one of his lateralbums, Hell in a Hand Basket,
which was not, we've not talkedabout Hell in a Hand Basket How.
So I'm gonna start our delvinginto that album with his cover
of The Mamas and the Papas'California Dreamin'.
Emma (39:15):
Lovely stuff.
Sam (39:16):
is it?
Emma (39:17):
Dunno.
Sam (39:17):
We'll find out and if you have opinions on those songs, do
let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts andanecdotes flying in.
Give us five stars on yourpodcast app of Choice.
Recommend us to the personsitting next to you on the bus.
That's a win-win.
'cause either it gets us a newlistener or it gets you a whole
bus seat to yourself.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingDr.
Kawashima's brain training onhis Nintendo DS?
(39:40):
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Any other thoughts, Emma?
Emma (39:43):
No.
No further thoughts?
Sam (39:45):
you've just gotta do your brain training for the day,
remembered.
He's still waiting.
You know that disembodiedJapanese head going
Emma (39:52):
sorry Dr.
Kawashima.
Sam (39:54):
He's so sad.
Emma (39:56):
Shit, I've not attended to my Nintendogs
Sam (39:58):
Oh, Emma.
The Nintendo R-S-P-C-A arecoming around.
Alright, everybody, go do yourbrain training.
We'll see you all in two moreweeks for another Chat out of
ell.
Bye Bye.
No, no, No.
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