October 19, 2025 • 40 mins
As we cruise towards the end of series five, we’ve time to visit more of Jim’s dodgy musical past, but then cleanse our palate with a very modern dodgy cover of an absolute classic. And while we’re there, let’s ask some questions like:
- Is Emma more of a Bert or an Ernie?
- Is Jim Steinman more of a 70s Kermit the Frog or the rubbish modern one?
- What did Bob Mortimer think of Mr Blobby?
PLUS some more Blobby classics from the archives, a bit more chat about old man Meat Loaf raging at the sky and an exciting cliffhanger of a rating.
Keep your comments, reviews and arguments flying in to chatoutofhell@gmail.com, find us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Chat out of Hell and don't forget to use the hashtag #DearA1saucewedontneedyoursaucenowwevegotourown
Chat out of Hell is a is a review podcast: all music extracts are used for review/illustrative purposes. To hear the songs in full please buy them from your local record shop or streaming platform. Don't do a piracy. Music extracts on this episode:
More than You Deserve by Meat Loaf from the album Dead Ringer (1981)
More than You Deserve demo by Jim Steinman (1974)
More than You Deserve by Meat Loaf recorded from the More than You Deserve Musical at the Newman Theatre (1974)
California Dreamin’ by Meat Loaf from the album Hell in a Handbasket (2011)
California Dreamin’ by Barry McGuire (1965)
California Dreamin’ by the Mamas and the Papas from the album If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears (1965)
California Dreamin’ by Freischwimmer (2015)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam (00:00):
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out Of Hell, a podcast about Meat Loaf and
Jim Steinman.
It is not the unofficial CDreleased of an interview with
Meat Loaf in 1994 that is alsocalled Chat Out of Hell.
Truly, there are no originalideas.
Sam (00:16):
Yeah.
I found out about that a littlewhile ago, and I thought,
this'll break Emma's heart.
Emma (00:21):
Oh, I've known about it for a while.
Sam (00:23):
Who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:24):
Meat Loaf was a big musical theatre nerd who
happened to tumble into rockmusic.
turned down the opportunity tobe in Grease when the guy that
made Hair suggested he ditchGrease in favor of his next
project called Rainbow.
Not with Zippy and George and
Sam (00:43):
Oh, Meat Loaf instead instead of Geoffrey.
That's a show, isn't it?
Emma (00:49):
Who's Jim Steinman?
Sam (00:50):
Jim Steinman is a musician who was born in Hewlett, New
York.
They're not all fun facts.
Some of them are just facts.
Emma (00:58):
Who are we?
Sam (00:58):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
And if we were Sesame Streetcharacters, we'd be Bert and
Ernie.
Aw, welcome to Chat Out of HellBow.
Now, Now, Ooh,
Emma (01:12):
Who?
Sam (01:13):
Sorry, what are you really gonna ask?
Emma (01:16):
Yeah, I am.
Who?
Who's Sam?
Sam (01:19):
who's, Who's who,
Emma (01:19):
who's who?
Sam (01:20):
who?
The tall, thin, uptight one
Emma (01:23):
but I'm a short, fat, uptight one.
And I'm not that short actually,when we stand side by side, in
photographs and stuff, it justlooks like I'm some sort of
Jeanette Krankee kind of figure.
I'm five foot seven, which isabove average height for a
woman.
Sam (01:43):
You're right, that is exactly the sort of thing that
Bert would say.
Ernie would just go with theflow.
Emma (01:50):
How's your rubber ducky?
Sam (01:52):
Oh shit.
But then you are all about therubber duckies.
Emma (01:54):
almost as if it's not a perfect uh,
Sam (01:57):
oh,
Emma (01:58):
anyway.
Sam (02:00):
Who else was in Sesame Street?
Emma (02:02):
I identify with both Oscar the Grouch and the Cookie
Monster, both for differentreasons.
Sam (02:09):
for different but very obvious
Emma (02:10):
also, i'm a big bird.
Sam (02:14):
Oh, sorry.
I forgot it was 1997.
Awright?
That's a big bird, innit.
Emma (02:21):
It's like we're on TFI Friday.
Sam (02:24):
Oh
Emma (02:24):
A fun one to explain to the Americans.
Yeah.
Sam (02:27):
Don't forget your toothbrush.
Emma (02:28):
Oh God.
That's
Sam (02:29):
another show.
Good.
Emma (02:31):
Good.
Yep.
That's alienated half of the
Sam (02:34):
so this is Chat Out of Hell.
The podcast one, which is, is apodcast where you and me both
bring a Meat Loaf or JimSteinman song to our podcast
analysis club, every episode forus to discuss, talk about its
origins, chat some nonsense, andthen we rate it on our legendary
Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinmansong Rating Scales.
Emma (02:56):
Is all true.
Sam (02:57):
Good.
I'm glad.
I thought it was in the wrongroom.
So, Emma, what song have youbrought for our listeners?
Emma (03:01):
I've brought More Than You Deserve from the Dead Ringer
album.
What have you brought?
Sam (03:06):
I've brought Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from the
Hell in a Hand Basket album in2011 slash 2012
Emma (03:13):
Now I think we've got a correction to make.
Sam (03:15):
We do have a correction to I was gonna do it later,
Emma (03:17):
Oh, that's, oh fine.
Yeah
Sam (03:18):
no, I'll do it.
Now.
Last episode, I did say thatthis will be our first foray
into Hell in a Handbasket.
And of course, we have alreadycovered Stand in the Storm,
which I had completely forgottenabout because it is awful.
Completely forgettable.
Yes, but we're not listening tothat one yet.
We're gonna go to your song MoreThan You Deserve.
There is a video
Emma (03:36):
is a video.
It's worth a look'cause we'regonna talk about it.
Sam (03:39):
Good.
Emma (03:40):
So, go away to your YouTubes or the VHS that has
been tucked under your dad'sbed.
Sam (03:47):
Do you think that's got the video of More Than You Deserve
on it?
Emma (03:50):
No.
Sam (03:50):
you, grew up in a very wholesome household.
Emma (03:54):
I regret saying that.
I was trying to think where theVHS could be.
I meant for it to be like tuckedbehind the back of a TV cabinet,
but I forgot all the words.
Yeah,
Sam (04:06):
we go.
Listeners, go look for the videoof More Than You Deserve in your
dad's grot collection.
We are gonna watch it onYouTube.
We'll see you all in a fewminutes.
Emma (04:30):
So that was More Than You Deserve from 1981's Dead Ringer
album.
Sam, any first thoughts?
Sam (04:37):
Oh, I love the song.
Emma (04:38):
it's a good
Sam (04:39):
dead good, isn't it?
Emma (04:40):
Do you know much about the song?
Sam (04:42):
I'm aware it's from a, musical.
Emma (04:44):
We will be coming onto that later on.
Sam (04:46):
It's a fun song.
Emma (04:47):
In a dark kind of a
Sam (04:49):
Well, it's in either in a dark kind of way or a very
modern kind of way.
Emma (04:51):
Well,
Sam (04:52):
Is Meat Loaf poly, you know?
Emma (04:54):
Indeed.
this was the very first songthat Meat Loaf performed for Jim
for.
Now at the initial audition forMore Than You Deserve?
The Musical.
Sam (05:06):
So that was the show that they met at?
Yes.
Wow.
show Okay.
Emma (05:11):
this is quite a big
Sam (05:12):
Cool.
Yeah.
In the history, in the Canon
Emma (05:15):
verse.
No, I regret that as well.
Yeah.
Sam (05:18):
Yeah.
Emma (05:19):
So
Sam (05:19):
scholars, Emma, come on in the literature.
Emma (05:23):
So I think it was one that was shoved in Meat Loaf's
direction for the Dead Ringeralbum by Jim.
Yeah.
Because we know that he wasfrantically trying to toss off
any old shit to fill.
Sam (05:33):
to film.
Yeah.
But this was some good stuffthat he tossed
Emma (05:35):
that you tossed off.
There was, I think, I stillthink there's some great stuff
on Dead Ringer.
Sam (05:38):
Yeah.
You know, I've changed my mindon this.
I think it's a good album.
album.
Um, So this is one of the songsthat Jim wrote before they'd
Emma (05:44):
Before they'd met, yeah.
Yeah.
still as well.
It's slightly adapted for thisversion.
There's an extra verse thrown
Sam (05:49):
there.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Emma (05:52):
That isn't in the original.
but we'll come onto that lateron.
Musically, It's a classicromantic eighties love song,
isn't It's got that
Sam (06:02):
Oh, musically, sorry.
Yeah.
yes it is.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Compositionally, it's got alittle bit of a country vibe to
it.
Yeah.
It's got that little bit of atwang and it's about a girl and
a truck
Emma (06:11):
and there's the, all the oos and the piano's quite
soaring in
Sam (06:15):
Yeah.
It's very much in Jim's theme ofthe first two albums where a
1950s slash 1980s mashup.
Emma (06:22):
Yes.
Yeah, it is.
The piano on this isn't playedby Jim it's played by a guy
called Nicky Hopkins who was anEnglish pianist.
And he worked with loads of megastars.
The Beatles, the Rolling Stones,the Who Oh, wow.
All the big bands.
All the Bigs, had a huge career.
I think there's even adocumentary made about him
called something like TheSession Musician or something
(06:43):
that.
So yeah he was a piano on this.
And piano's a big part of thissong.
I would say.
The Independent, the newspaper,has listed this song as one of
the 10 essential songs tounderstand the real Meat Loaf.
Sam (06:56):
Okay.
I don't really know what to sayabout
Emma (06:59):
I suspect it's because I
Sam (07:01):
think songs are how you understand the real Meat Loaf.
Emma (07:04):
I suspect it's because of the history him and Jim meeting.
And this being the first songthat performed in the audition.
Sam (07:12):
Can I share my theory about the video?
Emma (07:14):
You can share your theory about the video.
Sam (07:15):
You remember we watched The Dead Ringer movie?
Yes.
Which was cut for YouTube withsome of the songs taken out.
And do you remember there's thatscene where Meat Loaf's mad that
there's no pie.
Emma (07:24):
Do you think that this is,
Sam (07:25):
I think he goes off and gets pie at this diner.
I think that's come out of there
Emma (07:29):
very possibly.
It feels like it fits,
Sam (07:32):
it?
Yeah.
In the same way that the PeelOut video doesn't really fit the
film, but they wedged
Emma (07:37):
Yeah,
Sam (07:37):
there.
Yeah.
Because they were filminganyway, so you might as
Emma (07:40):
this has definitely got more sort of music video vibes
than the Peel Out video
Sam (07:46):
would say yes.
Emma (07:47):
It feels a bit more considered yes, And directed.
I mean it's still been made forabout 50 quid.
Sam (07:53):
Truck stop, couple of extras
Emma (07:54):
And some pie.
Sam (07:55):
and some pie.
Emma (07:56):
It is nighttime.
A truck pulls into an allAmerican truck stop.
Neon diner sign, the works, andthen the piano begins, and Meat
Loaf gets out of the truck inhis trademark frilly shirt, and
he walks into the diner and seesa pretty waitress behind the
counter.
And as she serves him, his pieand coffee he falls in love with
her.
(08:17):
Immediately.
Besotted And so of course hebegins to sing.
And when he hits the line, thenI saw you making love to my best
friend.
She goes off to serve anotherguy at the counter.
And pie is a big metaphor here,
Sam (08:31):
It?
Emma (08:31):
Pie equals sex.
So she serves this other guy andMeat's furious.
And he aims his"won't you takesome mores" at this guy but the
guy is oblivious.
So it's all a big kind offantasy
Sam (08:46):
Yeah.
I really like that.
So it escalates from that, thatmore and more truckers come in
and get served pie and he'sstalking up and down behind them
singing angrily at them.
And they're just eating their
Emma (08:56):
Eating their pie.
As he starts singing, the moreromantic part of the second
verse, about the happy parts ofthe relationship, the waitress
is back with Meat Loaf andgiving him his check and she's
all smiley.
then he gets up and startswalking around the diner
following her.
And she's just trying to do herjob.
Sam, it really annoys me.
He's pestering her.
Yeah.
And it's, she's just trying todo her job and he's very creepy
(09:18):
and some people perceive that asbeing romantic.
Sam (09:21):
Oh no.
It's incelly
Emma (09:22):
It's, it is incelly, but a lot of things that have been
perceived as romantic overcinematic
Sam (09:29):
That's certainly
Emma (09:29):
Are creepy.
ah.
Anyway So yeah, she serves allthese other customers customers
as is her job.
And then Meat Loaf startssinging about having to leave
her because he's very angry.
Can we talk about the angel thatturns up,
Sam (09:43):
The waitress kind of transmutes into a different
waitress of, I would, this isall subjective, but I would say
exactly equal attractiveness.
Now it, you would expect forthis trope to her to be either
suddenly super beautiful orperhaps suddenly hideous.
And that kind of is somethingweird, but she just transmutes
into a different, equallyattractive
Emma (10:03):
woman.
Another, all right.
Looking woman.
Perfectly fine, nice lookingwoman.
Sam (10:07):
Yeah.
I don't, I didn't quite get whatwas going on there.
Emma (10:09):
To start with, she becomes this other woman dressed in what
I've referred to here as schoolNativity play angel costume.
Sam (10:18):
Yes, it is.
It's a tinsel
Emma (10:19):
white knight.
Sam (10:19):
a white nightie Yeah.
Emma (10:22):
A bit of fluff
Sam (10:24):
It's an interesting directorial decision.
Emma (10:27):
Yeah.
Decision
Sam (10:29):
because it's just layers upon layers of weird
hallucination.
Emma (10:32):
Yes.
But then, all those other mencome in and right at the end
when Meat Loaf had enough andhe's, he stormed out of the
diner.
They all creep forward.
Sam (10:42):
Yeah.
He storms out of the diner, andthen it's a scene from Meat
Loaf's PoV.
Where all the truckers are whoa.
Looking down on him.
Emma (10:50):
It's really weird in a GCSE drama kind of a way.
Sam (10:55):
In a David Lynch kind of a way.
Emma (10:58):
Maybe
Sam (10:59):
I'm not denigrating David Lynch, but it does have that
sort of a vibe.
Emma (11:04):
David Lynch has got a lot to answer for, especially in
GCSE drama.
None of the kids have seen anyof the David Lynch stuff by that
point, but the teacherscertainly fucking have.
and if they're young, thenthey're still in their Twin
Peaks phase.
Anyway.
I've got off topic.
(11:24):
So then Meat Loaf bursts backinto the diner.
And none of the men are there.
And it's just the normalwaitress.
And he's puzzled.
And so he asks her if anybodywas there and nobody was.
Oh, it was all a dream.
Sam (11:38):
imagined the whole
Emma (11:40):
Oh my God.
Sam (11:41):
He's so insecure that he fell in love with a girl and
then immediately imagined a loadof men to take the girl away
Emma (11:46):
So that's the video.
It's really weird.
It wasn't a single.
I don't think I haven't found arelease
Sam (11:52):
it.
Oh.
Well that just adds fuel to mypart of the film theory
Emma (11:55):
Yeah.
Sam (11:55):
I like it, I
Emma (11:56):
Oh, it's fun.
Sam (11:57):
The Meat Loaf in the, the character that Meat Loaf
portrays in the video is justthis really insecure guy that is
so worried about even before Ifall in love, a bunch of other
men are gonna come around andmake love to my girlfriend.
And there's somethinginterestingly sad about that.
Emma (12:14):
I think because I know the other context of the song it has
coloured my perception somewhat.
Sam (12:20):
Are we gonna dive into that now?
Emma (12:22):
Yeah.
Let's talk about the musical.
Before we do, I just wanna saythere's some quite dark material
in so listeners beware therecould be some potentially
triggering stuff it's atroublesome musical, I would
say.
Sam (12:39):
Any particular topics to warn people about?
Emma (12:41):
Sexual assault.
Sam (12:42):
Okay.
Right.
So, yeah, if that is notsomething you wanna listen to,
Emma (12:47):
maybe skip ahead to our rating.
Sam (12:48):
Whenever that is, whenever that
Emma (12:49):
whenever that happens.
Sam (12:50):
I'll edit in a line here when I've finished doing the
edit to tell you exactly whattime code to skip to.
Emma (12:55):
That would be marvelous.
Thank you, Sam.
so, this was originally amusical written by Jim Steinman,
(13:17):
and Michael Weller, who alsowrote the screenplay to Hair.
Sam (13:21):
Okay.
Emma (13:22):
he'd done all sorts of other bits and pieces.
Yeah.
And then they got together andwrote this.
So I think the book was writtenby Weller and Steinman did the
music, and I think they bothworked on the lyrics for the
songs.
I'm gonna give a really briefsynopsis because musicals are
big and lots of things happen inthem.
And it can be really complicatedto go through an entire one,
(13:44):
especially when you haven't seenit.
As I haven't.
There are recordings availableon Jim's website.
They are as high quality as theones for the Dream Engine.
Dreams.
Engines.
Chugga chugga woo woo..
They're as high quality as therecordings for that.
So they're quite difficult tolisten to.
It is set in a US army base inVietnam during the Vietnam War.
(14:07):
Major Michael Dillon, who isimpotent, falls in love with a
reporter who has been sent tocover the camp.
The reporter turns out to be anymphomaniac when she apparently
enjoys being gang raped by theother soldiers in the camp.
However, she realizes at the endthat she would be happier giving
(14:29):
up her newfound lust for sex tosettle down with the
Sam (14:34):
Right.
Emma (14:40):
Yeah, there are problems with that.
Sam (14:45):
There's maybe one massive glaring flashing red problem.
Emma (14:52):
as red flags go, this one is big who.
Wow.
And when I read that, I feltweird.
Sam (15:02):
Well, yeah.
Emma (15:03):
Really uncomfortable and I didn't want to listen to
Sam (15:08):
Okay.
That's fine.
You don't
Emma (15:09):
to, I just don't think it's A place that I want to go
to.
So yeah, brief synopsis, like Isay, I'm sure there's a lot more
to it.
Yeah.
I think Meat Loaf's character init is into blowing people up.
With bombs.
So
Sam (15:25):
he is in a war
Emma (15:27):
From what I was reading, every time one of the characters
told Meat Loaf's character thatthey wanted to go home, he blew
them up.
Sam (15:34):
That is quite funny.
Emma (15:36):
Send them home.
Oh, edgy theatre boys I'verevisited our friend Mick Wall's
book.
And he's got quite a lot to sayabout this.
More Than You Deserve is anextraordinary song, in many
ways, the keystone song for allof Steinman's work, and
certainly one of his greatest.
It would not be recorded for BatOut of Hell, but instead for
(15:58):
Dead Ringer, the belatedfollow-up, where it's given a
much more refined, orchestratedarrangement, but its true
significance lies in that firstconnection.
The meeting of author andsubject.
The first time that Meat Loafwould come to embody Jim
Steinman's interior universe,feeding on planets and shitting
stars"
Sam (16:16):
That took a turn at the end, didn't
Emma (16:18):
Did, Didn't it?
It really did.
So the lyric,"Won't you takesome more boys, it's more than
you deserve.
For a lyric like that to work.
It can't be sung by a goodlooking bronzed Robert Plant
type.
No girl is going to gang banghis friendship group when she's
got the real thing waiting forher back at home.
As with so many of Jim's songs,it's only artistically true when
(16:40):
someone who's been beaten downby life is singing"
Sam (16:44):
That's all true, but I just didn't realize how much of a
hottie young Robert Plant was.
As soon as you said a goodlooking Robert Plant type, I had
to Google him and, I would,
Emma (16:55):
Oh yeah.
There's a certain
Sam (16:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I never realized.
I've only ever seen an oldRobert Plant.
But yeah, no, this is a loser'ssong.
Emma (17:02):
Yeah.
it's from the loser'sperspective.
It's pretty bleak.
I've sent you something that Ifound on Jim's website.
It is a version of this songsung by Jim himself.
I think it was from thepreliminary recordings of the
Sam (17:16):
Okay.
Soundtrack (17:17):
From the very first moment I saw you,
Sam (17:21):
Is that Kermit the Frog?
Soundtrack (17:23):
I knew our love would be so strong and the very
first moment i,
Emma (17:35):
That's got some real country vibes going on there.
Sam (17:37):
That's so Gram Parsons.
And he's even got his ownEmmylou Harris doing
Emma (17:41):
Yep.
Sam (17:41):
backing singing I love that.
Emma (17:43):
It's a nice version.
Sam (17:44):
We know that Jim doesn't have a great range and he is a
bit Kermit the Froggy atbeginning.
But this is one of those songsthat really suits his voice and
his way of singing.
Yeah.
Much like we've not talked aboutit yet, but Left in the Dark
Yeah.
Is a song that's been sungseveral times.
And I like Jim's version themost again, because it's a
loser's song.
Emma (18:04):
Yeah.
And he sounds like a loser.
Sam (18:06):
Bless him.
Jim is the best at conveyingloser in love.
Yes.
It's good.
Emma (18:13):
On that topic again from Mick Wall's book one of Jim's
Amherst classmates had discussedthis with him and said"Jim knew
what it was to be cool, and heknew that he wasn't,"
Sam (18:26):
I can't remember if I've used that yet, but that I've had
that quote in my back pocket forages.
it's, absolutely true.
Emma (18:32):
It's so true.
Oh, Jimmy.
Sam (18:35):
Do you want to hear the Meat Loaf singing the version in
the stage think it's slightlyillustrative.
Emma (18:41):
Yes,
Sam (18:42):
is from the Newman theatre, 1974.
So there's loads of clappingthere.
But the video has a quote fromJim Yeah.
That says"they all stood up andcheered wildly, and he was in
(19:03):
tears.
It was one of the most thrillingthings I've ever seen.
And you could tell not only thathe was an astonishing singer,
but also a great actor."
Emma (19:10):
I've read that quote elsewhere.
And in a review that I read MeatLoaf's performance, particularly
this song was heavily praised
Sam (19:21):
that that is such a, that's a very good performance.
Emma (19:24):
it
Sam (19:25):
shame about the rest of it,
Emma (19:28):
As I say, perhaps if I'd seen it, I'd feel differently,
but the topic
Sam (19:32):
yeah.
Emma (19:32):
Makes me a bit
Sam (19:34):
Well,
Emma (19:35):
in fact, more than a bit uncomfortable.
Sam (19:36):
Understandably so.
Yes.
Emma (19:39):
So I've had a look to see what the people of the internet
thought, and we're going back tothe video now and Loaf version
of this song, and so I foundsome comments.
And I'm not gonna read out thenames of the people.
Sam (19:51):
uh Oh.
Emma (19:53):
Not for any.
I don't, let me see what youthink.
So I've got two comments.
Yeah.
And they both have replies fromthe same person who seems like a
nutter
Sam (20:04):
How
Emma (20:05):
So should I anonymize
Sam (20:07):
Okay give me a quick"name redacted" in a big, loud voice
Emma (20:11):
name redacted.
Sam (20:12):
And now read them out.
Emma (20:14):
Oh, you're such a pro, Sam.
So, at that AMC guy said,"whatI've always loved is how Meat
could pull off the splitpersonality.
His Meat Loaf character isloaded with angst and intensity.
Yet the man Michael strokeMarvin is actually quite the
opposite.
A very humble, honest, almostfragile human being." Now,
(20:36):
evidently he's not seen thatclip of the Apprentice that
we've seen, but okay.
Name redacted said,"that makesMeat Loaf a perfect man.
Modest and humble in real life,but passionate in his soul, many
exclamation Oh, I am so in lovewith him." Okay.
(20:56):
So then kopilit, we'll saykopilit said"easily one of the
greatest music videos evermade." So this is somebody
that's never seen any othermusic videos but okay.
And name redacted.
in all caps said,"I easily agreewith you, Meat Loaf mesmerizes
me in this video.
(21:17):
I am drawn to him like a baby tobreast milk." There's some
fucking weirdos out there.
Sam (21:24):
There are some oddballs out there Emma.
Emma (21:26):
Oh my God.
Like a baby.
To
Sam (21:29):
Okay, baby.
To breast milk.
Emma (21:31):
Yeah.
That's what the people of theinternet to say.
Sam (21:34):
Lovely.
What do we have to say?
Is it time to rate this song?
Emma (21:37):
I think it is.
Sam (21:38):
Okay.
Well, we're gonna rate this onour Jim Steinman Steinman song
rating scale, which runs fromJim Steinman up at the top to
Jim Fineman for those songs,what are in the Middle, all the
way down to Jim Declineman forthe bad songs, what he wrote.
Emma (21:52):
Yes, I know.
what What is this?
Sam (21:55):
I know what I think
Emma (21:56):
what do you think it
Sam (21:57):
It's a Jim Steinman.
Emma (21:59):
You think so?
Sam (21:59):
It's a really good song.
It is definitely, probablymarred by the context of the
horrible sounding show that itappears in.
But.
It's then been decontextualizedfrom that by being put on the
Dead Ringer album.
That's my pitch.
Emma (22:17):
Okay.
I can roll with that.
Sam (22:18):
You don't have to roll with
Emma (22:19):
that.
No, I think
Sam (22:20):
were you, were
Emma (22:21):
is a good song.
I'm I it was top end of fine.
Okay.
Or bottom end of Stein.
And I think I can roll with thatbecause Meat Loaf does a really
good job with it
Sam (22:33):
He does do a really good job of it.
No wonder they got him to singit at the audition'cause it's
perfect for his voice.
So we are gonna call this a JimSteinman ding.
Emma (22:45):
a ding
Sam (22:46):
I thought throw a ding in.
Emma (22:47):
Fair enough.
I Sam, what have you brought?
Sam (22:51):
Emma I have brought Meat Loaf's cover of California
Dreamin'.
I bet
Emma (22:55):
I bet that's brilliant.
Sam (22:56):
Well, we're gonna find out in a minute.
This was on the album Hell in aHandbasket, which was released
in 2011 or 2012, depending onwhere you But you can find it on
YouTube or Spotify or a car bootsale, I imagine.
So listeners, go away, findthat.
We're gonna listen to it now.
We'll all meet back here inabout five minutes.
Emma (23:15):
Bring snacks.
Soundtrack (23:16):
Leaves.
Sam (23:34):
Meat Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from 2012's
Hell in a Handbasket.
Emma, your face told a thousandwords, but let's have a thousand
words out of your face.
Emma (23:48):
It's not my favourite...
song that we've listened totoday.
Good grief.
there's so much wrong with it.
Okay, so the original song, wasit The Mamas and Papas?
Sam (24:01):
The Mamas and the Papas did do an earlier version.
Somebody else recorded a versionbefore them
Emma (24:05):
version that I'm familiar with is the Mamas and the Papas.
And oh God.
The way that Meat Loaf sings it,he misses the rhythm throughout.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
And this is, this is somethingthat I've picked up on before
with Meat Loaf.
The last time I went to see himwhen I was, I think I was about
20.
And he was going through a notgood phase.
(24:26):
I think his health had beensuffering and I went to see him
with my mum and my dad thistime.
And he wrecked every single oneof his songs by not singing the
correct rhythm.
Yeah.
The tune was off as well.
Yeah.
But the rhythm was out.
Yeah.
And he kept using the samerhythm for everything.
And it just, it really throwsyou off a song because there's
nothing wrong with doing acover.
(24:48):
There are some absolutely bloodybrilliant covers out there.
And some covers are better thanthe originals.
This is not one of them there'ssome serious two thousands
production going on in there.
Sam (24:59):
There is, we can thank Paul Crook of the Neverland for
production on Hell in aHandbasket,
Emma (25:04):
very funny noises
Sam (25:07):
i'm about to make a spirited defense of this song.
I'm not in any way claiming thisis a good cover of this song,
but it is exactly the sort ofthing that Meat Loaf should have
been trying to do at that age.
Because the rest of this albumis more of the same.
Well, let's go to an interviewwith Leigh Valley Live, where
(25:29):
the origin of the name of thealbum,"the world's gone to hell
in a hand basket every day thatI listen to the news, I think
the hand basket is gettingbigger," Meat Loaf says,"it's
crazy out there." does that makeit worse if the hand basket is
big?
I is what?
Emma (25:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very much.
What I think I've read thisquote before as well and found
myself thinking that'smeaningless garbage,
Sam (25:54):
hell is the problem, not the basket Meat Loaf goes on to
say,"I'm not picking on one sideor the other.
They're all nuts", which we allknow is code for.
I'm on the bad side, but I don'twant to admit it.
Emma (26:06):
I'm one of the baddies now.
Sam (26:09):
and then I'll skip over to a review of this album by Paul
Whitelaw for the BBC.
Emma (26:13):
Okay.
Sam (26:14):
He says of this album,"all he's prepared to communicate is
a sort of non-specific rage,couched in generic metaphors
about rainstorms, making himsound less like an apocalyptic
preacher and more like aweatherman having a mental
breakdown.
It's simply not good enough tosplutter,'I cannot believe this
stuff' without bothering toexplain what this stuff actually
(26:35):
is."
Emma (26:36):
so true though.
Sam (26:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So that's what Meat Loaf's up toat that age.
But this is him.
Well, again, I'll go back toMeat Loaf.
In the interview with LeighValley Live,"he says he never
paid much attention to thissong, dismissing it as standard
pop tune when it first debuted."How can you miss that?
Like I was maybe six years oldwhen I heard this song, and I
would've thought to myself,gosh, this is terribly
(26:59):
melancholy, isn't it?
Yeah.
Meat Loaf thinks it's about fearof failure, but I, it's a song
that a, an aging musician with afailing voice should be trying
to make something interestingout of.
And I'm not saying he has, Yeah.
Emma (27:15):
if he'd have Johnny Cashed it.
If
Sam (27:17):
he'd have Johnny Cashed it, I think even with that
arrangement and that singing afew tweaks here and there,
would've made it
Emma (27:24):
less cringeworthy
Sam (27:25):
better
Emma (27:26):
sexy saxomaphone.
Sam (27:28):
Saxomaphone Jesus Sexy saxomaphone See, that's Patti
Russo on the backing vocalsthere.
Doing her best to salvagesomething,
Emma (27:38):
doing what she does,
Sam (27:39):
Yeah.
is
Emma (27:40):
best to salvage a shit
Sam (27:41):
Meat Loaf's career.
Emma (27:43):
It's not for me.
Sam (27:44):
No.
just me.
No.
Well, Emma, would you like apalate cleanser?
Emma (27:48):
Go on.
Then
Sam (27:48):
let's have a listen to the original version.
Okay.
Which as you've already forcedme to reveal, wasn't actually by
the Mamas and the Papas, thefirst recording of this is by
Barry McGuire.
Do you know Barry McGuire?
Emma (27:58):
I don't think I do.
Sam (27:59):
Sixties folky singer.
His biggest song is a songcalled Eve of Destruction which
is quite good, but it's a veryon the nose Vietnam protest
song.
Right.
But have a bang on this.
Soundtrack (28:13):
the,
Emma (28:25):
That's good,
Sam (28:26):
It's good.
Does it sound familiar?
Emma (28:29):
Yeah.
Sam (28:30):
Well, here we go, Emma.
Here's the twist within thetwist.
This song was written by Johnand Michelle Phillips of the
folk band, the New Journeymen,who then got it recorded by
Barry McGuire on Dunhi llRecords.
New Journeymen provided thebacking lyrics under their new
name, the Mamas and the Papas.
And then not long after that,Lou Adler, who was the head of
(28:52):
Dunhill Records, he was soimpressed with the Mamas and the
Papas that he had them rerecordthe single, but using the same
backing tracks that had beenlaid down for Barry McGuire.
This happened to Meat Loaf, wetalked about when he was with
Motown, with Meat Loaf andStoney.
He stomped off in a huff'cause Ican't remember who it was now,
but somebody else rerecorded oneof their songs, but they just
took out their So the same trickwas pulled here and Wow.
(29:14):
The harmonica solo was replacedwith a flute solo by Bud Shank,
and that was apparentlyimprovised.
The fun twist within a twist,can just about hear a bit of
Barry McGuire's original vocalsthat are left on the left at the
beginning of the Mamas and thePapas version.
And you can also just about makeout his harmonica solo
(29:36):
underneath the flute solo.
We know it by now.
But obviously that's the bestversion in the world ever.
I've been on such a Mamas andthe Papas hit today thanks to
this song.
So I'm forgiving Meat Loaf,everything.
Emma (29:52):
I've just been living in terror while you've going off on
this sort of little tangent.
Yeah.
that somehow you were gonnainvolve Mr Blobby in it
Sam (30:02):
What?
Why would I do that?
Strange,
Emma (30:04):
Don't you gaslight me, Wilkinson.
Sam (30:07):
So this song's been covered a few times, Emma.
It has um, notably by AmericaUhhuh the Beach Boys did a
version.
Meat Loaf's cover is sohistorically insignificant that
it doesn't appear in the list ofcovers on the Wikipedia page.
Yep.
But there's this, which is by aGerman dance something outfit
called Freischwimmer.
(30:28):
the whole thing looks and soundslike a Grattan advert.
Soundtrack (30:31):
All and the sky is grey.
Sam (30:43):
I generally don't know if I like that or not.
it's achingly cool, isn't
Emma (30:47):
it?
in a way that makes it probablyquite uncool.
Sam (30:50):
Yeah.
Emma (30:50):
it's trying very hard to be achingly hip and I don't know
if it is.
Sam (30:54):
Yeah.
But coming from someone whohasn't been anywhere near
achingly hip in the past, let'ssay 15 years, be generous.
Emma (31:02):
Are we talking me or you here?
Okay.
As we know, I am
Sam (31:05):
still yeah, you're still achingly hip.
Yeah.
I'm not getting into those kindof clubs anymore.
that was the 2016 version byFreischwimmer, which was the
first time that song ever got tonumber one.
Wow.
Yeah.
None of the previous versionsmade it to number one.
So
Emma (31:21):
it's cool then.
Sam (31:22):
is cool.
Yeah.
53 years since its first releasetill it got to number
Emma (31:27):
and it took somebody to feed it through both a John
Lewis machine and the dancemusic machine as well.
Sam (31:33):
That's all it takes, Emma.
Yeah.
Now that 53 years thing is quiteinteresting'cause by that
metric, this song is over athousand times worse than Mr.
Blobby by Mr.
Blobby, which only took 19 daysto go to number one released on
the 30th of November, number oneon the 11th of December.
You alright?
Yeah, yeah, We're just doing apodcast.
(31:53):
What's up with you?
It's over now.
You're fine.
Emma (32:01):
Is there no quiz?
Sam (32:02):
Well, there is a quiz.
Yeah.
Do you wanna do the quiz?
Emma (32:04):
I was gonna say it's never over, Sam.
It's never over.
Sam (32:07):
Here are three quotes from reviews.
Which of them isn't from areview of Meat Loaf's cover of
this song?
A.
"There aren't words enough todescribe the horror.
B.
"This track is completelyunnecessary".
C,"most irritating."
Emma (32:25):
The one that's about Meat
Sam (32:28):
No.
One of them isn't.
Emma (32:30):
Sorry.
Say A isn't.
Sam (32:32):
So thus far in this series this is episode five and I
believe you are three.
One up.
You're now three two up.
Emma (32:43):
No.
Sam (32:45):
There aren't words enough to describe the horror of the
cover of California Dreamin' bythe Mamas and the Papas.
Meat Loaf duets with longtimetouring vocalist, Patti Russo,
on this slow overblown take ofan otherwise beautiful song".
That's from Consequence.
Do you wanna choose between thecompletely unnecessary or most
irritating?
Emma (33:02):
I think most irritating is probably Blobby.
Sam (33:05):
Yeah, you are right.
Yes.
The track is completelyunnecessary," This comes from
Goldmine.
"Comes off more like karaokenext to the Mamas and the Papas
original.
Patti Russo's classy backingvocals, attempt to salvage a
song halfway through, but to noavail.
The track is completelyunnecessary even for b-side
fodder", absolute slamming.
Here's a quote from ClassicRock, which didn't make it into
(33:27):
the quiz.
"This album is hobbled by MeatLoaf's tendency to go on on a
bit," and then Mick Wall in Likea Bat out of Hell, called it a
"mad cover."
Emma (33:35):
Yeah, that's
Sam (33:36):
all he had to say about it.
Most irritating.
That was from a review of Mr.
Blobby singer of the single Mr.
Blobby in the Independent.
Mr.
Blobby wasn't popular among allhis fellow entertainers.
Michael Parkinson's found thecharacter to be"far from
amusing" while Bob Mortimercalled him"a pink spotty rubber
twat." And then here's a bit ofuh, Mr.
(33:57):
Blobby memories fun, which I'dforgotten about.
Do you remember, in 1994, it hitthe news that Mr.
Blobby had reduced a child totears at her own birthday party.
'cause he went in and chuckedher cake on the floor.
And her father attacked Mr.
Blobby on stage.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Emma (34:15):
And that's a real thing and not one of the Noel's house
party pranks.
Sam (34:19):
No.
That was a real thing thathappened.
Yeah.
Emma (34:21):
the nineties
Sam (34:23):
What a time.
Time.
Do you wanna hear what thepeople of the internet
Emma (34:26):
Yes.
Sam (34:27):
Well, much like you, I've brought somebody who likes
responding to people.
Okay.
The first comment is from ElijahSway.
This is four years ago.
Meat Loaf owns this song now" Towhich Dennis McGrath 30 88,
replied three months ago.
"The Mamas and the Papas do",and then Elijah Sway came out of
(34:49):
hibernation to say"they may bethe original, but Meat Loaf did
it better" Give it up, ElijahSway.
Then further down, Don Jay, 7 77, 2 years ago,"the critics can
be damned to hell.
This is better than theoriginal," which Dennis McGrath
30 88 replied three months ago.
"Worse."
Emma (35:10):
Dennis McGrath fighting the good fight.
Yeah,
Sam (35:13):
and that's it.
Shall we rate the song?
I think we probably should Let'srate the song Emma.
So this is a Meat Loaf song thatdidn't have Jim Steinman
involved.
So we rate these on our MichaelLee Aday scale, running from
Michael Lee Aday for his goodsongs down to Michael Lee Okay,
for his all right, averageysongs all the way down to
Michael Lee.
No way.
(35:33):
What's the story, pal?
Emma (35:35):
For me, this is a
Sam (35:36):
is it?
Emma (35:37):
Yeah.
It's bad, Sam.
Sam (35:39):
It is bad, but
Emma (35:41):
I know it's not,
Sam (35:42):
want to reward intent.
No,
Emma (35:47):
I know.
It's not like bad in a creepyway.
Sam (35:51):
Yeah.
Some of the stuff that fallsinto the Michael Lee Aday slash
Jim Declineman is genuinelyhorrible, Unpleasant stuff.
And it's not that
Emma (36:00):
It's not even fun.
Like California isn't BigEnough.
Which is brilliant fun.
This is not fun.
This is a slog.
it's an immediate skip if itcomes on.
Sam (36:11):
What, on this album.
On this album, Emma, this isyour oasis of peace.
Emma (36:16):
I suspect this is an immediate skip kind of an album.
I
Sam (36:21):
Oh, I can't wait to listen to Stand in the Storm again.
Emma (36:24):
No, we're not listening to that one either.
It tortures a beautiful song.
Tortures it.
It takes a bleak but beautifulsong with so much soul and
pisses on
Sam (36:36):
it.
but he's not trying to piss onit.
He's really trying to record anappropriate song for a man his
age with a voice in hiscondition.
Emma (36:47):
If you had kids, your fridge would be covered in in
terrible artwork.
it'd just get more and morelayers of terrible artwork
because the intent was there.
Sam (36:57):
I don't know what to say to that.
Other than sorry to all youparents listening.
And also, as you well know,Emma, I've got a fitted kitchen
and my fridge.
my fridge is behind a woodencabinet,
Emma (37:13):
So is mine.
And I mourned my loss of fridgemagnets
Sam (37:16):
too.
Otherwise, I'd have Maisie'sartwork
Emma (37:18):
up there.
Sam (37:19):
Every, I think we're gonna have to split vote on this
Emma (37:22):
Okay.
Sam (37:23):
I think it's an okay.
Emma (37:24):
It's a no
Sam (37:26):
This is a, that was the Tim Allen noise from the end of home
improvement.
Emma (37:33):
It's been a while since you've done one of those
Sam (37:36):
Ooh, Listeners, if you would like to swing the vote,
either way, please do drop us anemail chatoutofhell@gmail.com
Emma (37:44):
You do of course know that I am right,
Sam (37:46):
So that was our songs this episode.
Emma (37:48):
Yes it was.
Sam (37:49):
Did you like our songs?
Did you agree with our ratings?
You couldn't possibly agree withall of our ratings'cause you are
one person and we are two.
Drop us an emailchatoutofhell@gmail.com.
And if you are the person whosigned chatoutofhell@gmail.com
up to a match.com account.
Thanks, I
Emma (38:05):
guess.
Oh no.
Yeah.
God.
I find it funny.
But
Sam (38:11):
Thanks for the bantz lads.
We do have a comment on Spotify.
Yeah.
thanks to LivinAfterMidnight,who left a comment on our last
episode about No Matter What.
"Good one as usual," thanksLivinAfterMidnight.
"Here in America, virtually noone has heard the Boyzone
version, so Meat's felt freshand new".
(38:31):
And that's a fair point.
Boy bands don't travel so well,do they?
Emma (38:35):
No, they certainly don't travel from the UK to the US
particularly
Sam (38:39):
or Ireland to the us
Emma (38:41):
Sorry.
From Ireland to the US.
Because I'm so indifferenttowards the boy bands.
I forget where
Sam (38:47):
Well, I don't think we had a successful homegrown British
boy band in that era.
We had a few minor ones, but thebig ones, Boyzone and Westlife
were both Irish.
Emma (38:55):
I mean, there was Take That.
Sam (38:58):
Which now I think about it outsold the both of them by
miles.
why let facts get in the way ofa good, good bit of podcast,
eh?,
Emma (39:08):
You can prove anything with facts.
Sam (39:09):
Cool.
Well, thank you.
LivinAfterMidnight.
And if you want, you can alsoleave a message on Spotify,
which I might spot at some pointwhenever I log into our Spotify
creators account.
So yeah.
Next time, we are coming up tothe final episode of series
five.
And as has now becometraditional, we'll be dipping
into our requests bin.
And Emma, what are you gonnabring?
Emma (39:29):
I'm gonna bring Good Girls Go to Heaven.
That was requested by ChrisMatts.
And that's gonna be from the Batout of Hell Two album and I'm
looking forward
Sam (39:38):
it.
It's a good one.
Emma (39:39):
It's a good one.
Sam (39:40):
And then somebody called Tom Wilkinson.
I wonder who that could be.
I dunno.
There's a famous actor one,which is probably who it is.
That seems likely..
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's requested Meat Loaf's coverof Somebody Loves Me uh, which
was released in 1994 and I don'tthink I've ever heard it, so.
Oh, wonderful.
I'm looking forward to that.
That's a Gershwin song that'sdead classy in that.
Yeah.
Emma (40:00):
Good.
Sam (40:01):
So there we go.
Let us know what you think aboutthose listeners.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Please continue giving us fivestars on your podcast listening
app of choice.
Recommend us to your friends oryour dentist.
Chat Out Of Hell is one of theonly podcast names that you can
nearly say with your mouthjammed wide open.
So, perfect.
how Emma's trying it right now.
(40:22):
Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts andanecdotes flying in.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingAlex Kidd in Miracle World?
The game that came built intothe Sega System?
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
That's it.
I think any other business,Emma?
All business concluded.
We'll see you next time for thelast in this series of Chat out
of Hell!
Emma (40:41):
Bye.
You'll not do goodbye.
Sam (40:43):
Yeah.
Bye
Emma (40:45):
bye.
What is this?
Emma (00:01):
This is Chat Out Of Hell, a podcast about Meat Loaf and
Jim Steinman.
It is not the unofficial CDreleased of an interview with
Meat Loaf in 1994 that is alsocalled Chat Out of Hell.
Truly, there are no originalideas.
Sam (00:16):
Yeah.
I found out about that a littlewhile ago, and I thought,
this'll break Emma's heart.
Emma (00:21):
Oh, I've known about it for a while.
Sam (00:23):
Who is Meat Loaf?
Emma (00:24):
Meat Loaf was a big musical theatre nerd who
happened to tumble into rockmusic.
turned down the opportunity tobe in Grease when the guy that
made Hair suggested he ditchGrease in favor of his next
project called Rainbow.
Not with Zippy and George and
Sam (00:43):
Oh, Meat Loaf instead instead of Geoffrey.
That's a show, isn't it?
Emma (00:49):
Who's Jim Steinman?
Sam (00:50):
Jim Steinman is a musician who was born in Hewlett, New
York.
They're not all fun facts.
Some of them are just facts.
Emma (00:58):
Who are we?
Sam (00:58):
We are Sam Wilkinson and Emma Crossland.
And if we were Sesame Streetcharacters, we'd be Bert and
Ernie.
Aw, welcome to Chat Out of HellBow.
Now, Now, Ooh,
Emma (01:12):
Who?
Sam (01:13):
Sorry, what are you really gonna ask?
Emma (01:16):
Yeah, I am.
Who?
Who's Sam?
Sam (01:19):
who's, Who's who,
Emma (01:19):
who's who?
Sam (01:20):
who?
The tall, thin, uptight one
Emma (01:23):
but I'm a short, fat, uptight one.
And I'm not that short actually,when we stand side by side, in
photographs and stuff, it justlooks like I'm some sort of
Jeanette Krankee kind of figure.
I'm five foot seven, which isabove average height for a
woman.
Sam (01:43):
You're right, that is exactly the sort of thing that
Bert would say.
Ernie would just go with theflow.
Emma (01:50):
How's your rubber ducky?
Sam (01:52):
Oh shit.
But then you are all about therubber duckies.
Emma (01:54):
almost as if it's not a perfect uh,
Sam (01:57):
oh,
Emma (01:58):
anyway.
Sam (02:00):
Who else was in Sesame Street?
Emma (02:02):
I identify with both Oscar the Grouch and the Cookie
Monster, both for differentreasons.
Sam (02:09):
for different but very obvious
Emma (02:10):
also, i'm a big bird.
Sam (02:14):
Oh, sorry.
I forgot it was 1997.
Awright?
That's a big bird, innit.
Emma (02:21):
It's like we're on TFI Friday.
Sam (02:24):
Oh
Emma (02:24):
A fun one to explain to the Americans.
Yeah.
Sam (02:27):
Don't forget your toothbrush.
Emma (02:28):
Oh God.
That's
Sam (02:29):
another show.
Good.
Emma (02:31):
Good.
Yep.
That's alienated half of the
Sam (02:34):
so this is Chat Out of Hell.
The podcast one, which is, is apodcast where you and me both
bring a Meat Loaf or JimSteinman song to our podcast
analysis club, every episode forus to discuss, talk about its
origins, chat some nonsense, andthen we rate it on our legendary
Meat Loaf and or Jim Steinmansong Rating Scales.
Emma (02:56):
Is all true.
Sam (02:57):
Good.
I'm glad.
I thought it was in the wrongroom.
So, Emma, what song have youbrought for our listeners?
Emma (03:01):
I've brought More Than You Deserve from the Dead Ringer
album.
What have you brought?
Sam (03:06):
I've brought Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from the
Hell in a Hand Basket album in2011 slash 2012
Emma (03:13):
Now I think we've got a correction to make.
Sam (03:15):
We do have a correction to I was gonna do it later,
Emma (03:17):
Oh, that's, oh fine.
Yeah
Sam (03:18):
no, I'll do it.
Now.
Last episode, I did say thatthis will be our first foray
into Hell in a Handbasket.
And of course, we have alreadycovered Stand in the Storm,
which I had completely forgottenabout because it is awful.
Completely forgettable.
Yes, but we're not listening tothat one yet.
We're gonna go to your song MoreThan You Deserve.
There is a video
Emma (03:36):
is a video.
It's worth a look'cause we'regonna talk about it.
Sam (03:39):
Good.
Emma (03:40):
So, go away to your YouTubes or the VHS that has
been tucked under your dad'sbed.
Sam (03:47):
Do you think that's got the video of More Than You Deserve
on it?
Emma (03:50):
No.
Sam (03:50):
you, grew up in a very wholesome household.
Emma (03:54):
I regret saying that.
I was trying to think where theVHS could be.
I meant for it to be like tuckedbehind the back of a TV cabinet,
but I forgot all the words.
Yeah,
Sam (04:06):
we go.
Listeners, go look for the videoof More Than You Deserve in your
dad's grot collection.
We are gonna watch it onYouTube.
We'll see you all in a fewminutes.
Emma (04:30):
So that was More Than You Deserve from 1981's Dead Ringer
album.
Sam, any first thoughts?
Sam (04:37):
Oh, I love the song.
Emma (04:38):
it's a good
Sam (04:39):
dead good, isn't it?
Emma (04:40):
Do you know much about the song?
Sam (04:42):
I'm aware it's from a, musical.
Emma (04:44):
We will be coming onto that later on.
Sam (04:46):
It's a fun song.
Emma (04:47):
In a dark kind of a
Sam (04:49):
Well, it's in either in a dark kind of way or a very
modern kind of way.
Emma (04:51):
Well,
Sam (04:52):
Is Meat Loaf poly, you know?
Emma (04:54):
Indeed.
this was the very first songthat Meat Loaf performed for Jim
for.
Now at the initial audition forMore Than You Deserve?
The Musical.
Sam (05:06):
So that was the show that they met at?
Yes.
Wow.
show Okay.
Emma (05:11):
this is quite a big
Sam (05:12):
Cool.
Yeah.
In the history, in the Canon
Emma (05:15):
verse.
No, I regret that as well.
Yeah.
Sam (05:18):
Yeah.
Emma (05:19):
So
Sam (05:19):
scholars, Emma, come on in the literature.
Emma (05:23):
So I think it was one that was shoved in Meat Loaf's
direction for the Dead Ringeralbum by Jim.
Yeah.
Because we know that he wasfrantically trying to toss off
any old shit to fill.
Sam (05:33):
to film.
Yeah.
But this was some good stuffthat he tossed
Emma (05:35):
that you tossed off.
There was, I think, I stillthink there's some great stuff
on Dead Ringer.
Sam (05:38):
Yeah.
You know, I've changed my mindon this.
I think it's a good album.
album.
Um, So this is one of the songsthat Jim wrote before they'd
Emma (05:44):
Before they'd met, yeah.
Yeah.
still as well.
It's slightly adapted for thisversion.
There's an extra verse thrown
Sam (05:49):
there.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Emma (05:52):
That isn't in the original.
but we'll come onto that lateron.
Musically, It's a classicromantic eighties love song,
isn't It's got that
Sam (06:02):
Oh, musically, sorry.
Yeah.
yes it is.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Compositionally, it's got alittle bit of a country vibe to
it.
Yeah.
It's got that little bit of atwang and it's about a girl and
a truck
Emma (06:11):
and there's the, all the oos and the piano's quite
soaring in
Sam (06:15):
Yeah.
It's very much in Jim's theme ofthe first two albums where a
1950s slash 1980s mashup.
Emma (06:22):
Yes.
Yeah, it is.
The piano on this isn't playedby Jim it's played by a guy
called Nicky Hopkins who was anEnglish pianist.
And he worked with loads of megastars.
The Beatles, the Rolling Stones,the Who Oh, wow.
All the big bands.
All the Bigs, had a huge career.
I think there's even adocumentary made about him
called something like TheSession Musician or something
(06:43):
that.
So yeah he was a piano on this.
And piano's a big part of thissong.
I would say.
The Independent, the newspaper,has listed this song as one of
the 10 essential songs tounderstand the real Meat Loaf.
Sam (06:56):
Okay.
I don't really know what to sayabout
Emma (06:59):
I suspect it's because I
Sam (07:01):
think songs are how you understand the real Meat Loaf.
Emma (07:04):
I suspect it's because of the history him and Jim meeting.
And this being the first songthat performed in the audition.
Sam (07:12):
Can I share my theory about the video?
Emma (07:14):
You can share your theory about the video.
Sam (07:15):
You remember we watched The Dead Ringer movie?
Yes.
Which was cut for YouTube withsome of the songs taken out.
And do you remember there's thatscene where Meat Loaf's mad that
there's no pie.
Emma (07:24):
Do you think that this is,
Sam (07:25):
I think he goes off and gets pie at this diner.
I think that's come out of there
Emma (07:29):
very possibly.
It feels like it fits,
Sam (07:32):
it?
Yeah.
In the same way that the PeelOut video doesn't really fit the
film, but they wedged
Emma (07:37):
Yeah,
Sam (07:37):
there.
Yeah.
Because they were filminganyway, so you might as
Emma (07:40):
this has definitely got more sort of music video vibes
than the Peel Out video
Sam (07:46):
would say yes.
Emma (07:47):
It feels a bit more considered yes, And directed.
I mean it's still been made forabout 50 quid.
Sam (07:53):
Truck stop, couple of extras
Emma (07:54):
And some pie.
Sam (07:55):
and some pie.
Emma (07:56):
It is nighttime.
A truck pulls into an allAmerican truck stop.
Neon diner sign, the works, andthen the piano begins, and Meat
Loaf gets out of the truck inhis trademark frilly shirt, and
he walks into the diner and seesa pretty waitress behind the
counter.
And as she serves him, his pieand coffee he falls in love with
her.
(08:17):
Immediately.
Besotted And so of course hebegins to sing.
And when he hits the line, thenI saw you making love to my best
friend.
She goes off to serve anotherguy at the counter.
And pie is a big metaphor here,
Sam (08:31):
It?
Emma (08:31):
Pie equals sex.
So she serves this other guy andMeat's furious.
And he aims his"won't you takesome mores" at this guy but the
guy is oblivious.
So it's all a big kind offantasy
Sam (08:46):
Yeah.
I really like that.
So it escalates from that, thatmore and more truckers come in
and get served pie and he'sstalking up and down behind them
singing angrily at them.
And they're just eating their
Emma (08:56):
Eating their pie.
As he starts singing, the moreromantic part of the second
verse, about the happy parts ofthe relationship, the waitress
is back with Meat Loaf andgiving him his check and she's
all smiley.
then he gets up and startswalking around the diner
following her.
And she's just trying to do herjob.
Sam, it really annoys me.
He's pestering her.
Yeah.
And it's, she's just trying todo her job and he's very creepy
(09:18):
and some people perceive that asbeing romantic.
Sam (09:21):
Oh no.
It's incelly
Emma (09:22):
It's, it is incelly, but a lot of things that have been
perceived as romantic overcinematic
Sam (09:29):
That's certainly
Emma (09:29):
Are creepy.
ah.
Anyway So yeah, she serves allthese other customers customers
as is her job.
And then Meat Loaf startssinging about having to leave
her because he's very angry.
Can we talk about the angel thatturns up,
Sam (09:43):
The waitress kind of transmutes into a different
waitress of, I would, this isall subjective, but I would say
exactly equal attractiveness.
Now it, you would expect forthis trope to her to be either
suddenly super beautiful orperhaps suddenly hideous.
And that kind of is somethingweird, but she just transmutes
into a different, equallyattractive
Emma (10:03):
woman.
Another, all right.
Looking woman.
Perfectly fine, nice lookingwoman.
Sam (10:07):
Yeah.
I don't, I didn't quite get whatwas going on there.
Emma (10:09):
To start with, she becomes this other woman dressed in what
I've referred to here as schoolNativity play angel costume.
Sam (10:18):
Yes, it is.
It's a tinsel
Emma (10:19):
white knight.
Sam (10:19):
a white nightie Yeah.
Emma (10:22):
A bit of fluff
Sam (10:24):
It's an interesting directorial decision.
Emma (10:27):
Yeah.
Decision
Sam (10:29):
because it's just layers upon layers of weird
hallucination.
Emma (10:32):
Yes.
But then, all those other mencome in and right at the end
when Meat Loaf had enough andhe's, he stormed out of the
diner.
They all creep forward.
Sam (10:42):
Yeah.
He storms out of the diner, andthen it's a scene from Meat
Loaf's PoV.
Where all the truckers are whoa.
Looking down on him.
Emma (10:50):
It's really weird in a GCSE drama kind of a way.
Sam (10:55):
In a David Lynch kind of a way.
Emma (10:58):
Maybe
Sam (10:59):
I'm not denigrating David Lynch, but it does have that
sort of a vibe.
Emma (11:04):
David Lynch has got a lot to answer for, especially in
GCSE drama.
None of the kids have seen anyof the David Lynch stuff by that
point, but the teacherscertainly fucking have.
and if they're young, thenthey're still in their Twin
Peaks phase.
Anyway.
I've got off topic.
(11:24):
So then Meat Loaf bursts backinto the diner.
And none of the men are there.
And it's just the normalwaitress.
And he's puzzled.
And so he asks her if anybodywas there and nobody was.
Oh, it was all a dream.
Sam (11:38):
imagined the whole
Emma (11:40):
Oh my God.
Sam (11:41):
He's so insecure that he fell in love with a girl and
then immediately imagined a loadof men to take the girl away
Emma (11:46):
So that's the video.
It's really weird.
It wasn't a single.
I don't think I haven't found arelease
Sam (11:52):
it.
Oh.
Well that just adds fuel to mypart of the film theory
Emma (11:55):
Yeah.
Sam (11:55):
I like it, I
Emma (11:56):
Oh, it's fun.
Sam (11:57):
The Meat Loaf in the, the character that Meat Loaf
portrays in the video is justthis really insecure guy that is
so worried about even before Ifall in love, a bunch of other
men are gonna come around andmake love to my girlfriend.
And there's somethinginterestingly sad about that.
Emma (12:14):
I think because I know the other context of the song it has
coloured my perception somewhat.
Sam (12:20):
Are we gonna dive into that now?
Emma (12:22):
Yeah.
Let's talk about the musical.
Before we do, I just wanna saythere's some quite dark material
in so listeners beware therecould be some potentially
triggering stuff it's atroublesome musical, I would
say.
Sam (12:39):
Any particular topics to warn people about?
Emma (12:41):
Sexual assault.
Sam (12:42):
Okay.
Right.
So, yeah, if that is notsomething you wanna listen to,
Emma (12:47):
maybe skip ahead to our rating.
Sam (12:48):
Whenever that is, whenever that
Emma (12:49):
whenever that happens.
Sam (12:50):
I'll edit in a line here when I've finished doing the
edit to tell you exactly whattime code to skip to.
Emma (12:55):
That would be marvelous.
Thank you, Sam.
so, this was originally amusical written by Jim Steinman,
(13:17):
and Michael Weller, who alsowrote the screenplay to Hair.
Sam (13:21):
Okay.
Emma (13:22):
he'd done all sorts of other bits and pieces.
Yeah.
And then they got together andwrote this.
So I think the book was writtenby Weller and Steinman did the
music, and I think they bothworked on the lyrics for the
songs.
I'm gonna give a really briefsynopsis because musicals are
big and lots of things happen inthem.
And it can be really complicatedto go through an entire one,
(13:44):
especially when you haven't seenit.
As I haven't.
There are recordings availableon Jim's website.
They are as high quality as theones for the Dream Engine.
Dreams.
Engines.
Chugga chugga woo woo..
They're as high quality as therecordings for that.
So they're quite difficult tolisten to.
It is set in a US army base inVietnam during the Vietnam War.
(14:07):
Major Michael Dillon, who isimpotent, falls in love with a
reporter who has been sent tocover the camp.
The reporter turns out to be anymphomaniac when she apparently
enjoys being gang raped by theother soldiers in the camp.
However, she realizes at the endthat she would be happier giving
(14:29):
up her newfound lust for sex tosettle down with the
Sam (14:34):
Right.
Emma (14:40):
Yeah, there are problems with that.
Sam (14:45):
There's maybe one massive glaring flashing red problem.
Emma (14:52):
as red flags go, this one is big who.
Wow.
And when I read that, I feltweird.
Sam (15:02):
Well, yeah.
Emma (15:03):
Really uncomfortable and I didn't want to listen to
Sam (15:08):
Okay.
That's fine.
You don't
Emma (15:09):
to, I just don't think it's A place that I want to go
to.
So yeah, brief synopsis, like Isay, I'm sure there's a lot more
to it.
Yeah.
I think Meat Loaf's character init is into blowing people up.
With bombs.
So
Sam (15:25):
he is in a war
Emma (15:27):
From what I was reading, every time one of the characters
told Meat Loaf's character thatthey wanted to go home, he blew
them up.
Sam (15:34):
That is quite funny.
Emma (15:36):
Send them home.
Oh, edgy theatre boys I'verevisited our friend Mick Wall's
book.
And he's got quite a lot to sayabout this.
More Than You Deserve is anextraordinary song, in many
ways, the keystone song for allof Steinman's work, and
certainly one of his greatest.
It would not be recorded for BatOut of Hell, but instead for
(15:58):
Dead Ringer, the belatedfollow-up, where it's given a
much more refined, orchestratedarrangement, but its true
significance lies in that firstconnection.
The meeting of author andsubject.
The first time that Meat Loafwould come to embody Jim
Steinman's interior universe,feeding on planets and shitting
stars"
Sam (16:16):
That took a turn at the end, didn't
Emma (16:18):
Did, Didn't it?
It really did.
So the lyric,"Won't you takesome more boys, it's more than
you deserve.
For a lyric like that to work.
It can't be sung by a goodlooking bronzed Robert Plant
type.
No girl is going to gang banghis friendship group when she's
got the real thing waiting forher back at home.
As with so many of Jim's songs,it's only artistically true when
(16:40):
someone who's been beaten downby life is singing"
Sam (16:44):
That's all true, but I just didn't realize how much of a
hottie young Robert Plant was.
As soon as you said a goodlooking Robert Plant type, I had
to Google him and, I would,
Emma (16:55):
Oh yeah.
There's a certain
Sam (16:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I never realized.
I've only ever seen an oldRobert Plant.
But yeah, no, this is a loser'ssong.
Emma (17:02):
Yeah.
it's from the loser'sperspective.
It's pretty bleak.
I've sent you something that Ifound on Jim's website.
It is a version of this songsung by Jim himself.
I think it was from thepreliminary recordings of the
Sam (17:16):
Okay.
Soundtrack (17:17):
From the very first moment I saw you,
Sam (17:21):
Is that Kermit the Frog?
Soundtrack (17:23):
I knew our love would be so strong and the very
first moment i,
Emma (17:35):
That's got some real country vibes going on there.
Sam (17:37):
That's so Gram Parsons.
And he's even got his ownEmmylou Harris doing
Emma (17:41):
Yep.
Sam (17:41):
backing singing I love that.
Emma (17:43):
It's a nice version.
Sam (17:44):
We know that Jim doesn't have a great range and he is a
bit Kermit the Froggy atbeginning.
But this is one of those songsthat really suits his voice and
his way of singing.
Yeah.
Much like we've not talked aboutit yet, but Left in the Dark
Yeah.
Is a song that's been sungseveral times.
And I like Jim's version themost again, because it's a
loser's song.
Emma (18:04):
Yeah.
And he sounds like a loser.
Sam (18:06):
Bless him.
Jim is the best at conveyingloser in love.
Yes.
It's good.
Emma (18:13):
On that topic again from Mick Wall's book one of Jim's
Amherst classmates had discussedthis with him and said"Jim knew
what it was to be cool, and heknew that he wasn't,"
Sam (18:26):
I can't remember if I've used that yet, but that I've had
that quote in my back pocket forages.
it's, absolutely true.
Emma (18:32):
It's so true.
Oh, Jimmy.
Sam (18:35):
Do you want to hear the Meat Loaf singing the version in
the stage think it's slightlyillustrative.
Emma (18:41):
Yes,
Sam (18:42):
is from the Newman theatre, 1974.
So there's loads of clappingthere.
But the video has a quote fromJim Yeah.
That says"they all stood up andcheered wildly, and he was in
(19:03):
tears.
It was one of the most thrillingthings I've ever seen.
And you could tell not only thathe was an astonishing singer,
but also a great actor."
Emma (19:10):
I've read that quote elsewhere.
And in a review that I read MeatLoaf's performance, particularly
this song was heavily praised
Sam (19:21):
that that is such a, that's a very good performance.
Emma (19:24):
it
Sam (19:25):
shame about the rest of it,
Emma (19:28):
As I say, perhaps if I'd seen it, I'd feel differently,
but the topic
Sam (19:32):
yeah.
Emma (19:32):
Makes me a bit
Sam (19:34):
Well,
Emma (19:35):
in fact, more than a bit uncomfortable.
Sam (19:36):
Understandably so.
Yes.
Emma (19:39):
So I've had a look to see what the people of the internet
thought, and we're going back tothe video now and Loaf version
of this song, and so I foundsome comments.
And I'm not gonna read out thenames of the people.
Sam (19:51):
uh Oh.
Emma (19:53):
Not for any.
I don't, let me see what youthink.
So I've got two comments.
Yeah.
And they both have replies fromthe same person who seems like a
nutter
Sam (20:04):
How
Emma (20:05):
So should I anonymize
Sam (20:07):
Okay give me a quick"name redacted" in a big, loud voice
Emma (20:11):
name redacted.
Sam (20:12):
And now read them out.
Emma (20:14):
Oh, you're such a pro, Sam.
So, at that AMC guy said,"whatI've always loved is how Meat
could pull off the splitpersonality.
His Meat Loaf character isloaded with angst and intensity.
Yet the man Michael strokeMarvin is actually quite the
opposite.
A very humble, honest, almostfragile human being." Now,
(20:36):
evidently he's not seen thatclip of the Apprentice that
we've seen, but okay.
Name redacted said,"that makesMeat Loaf a perfect man.
Modest and humble in real life,but passionate in his soul, many
exclamation Oh, I am so in lovewith him." Okay.
(20:56):
So then kopilit, we'll saykopilit said"easily one of the
greatest music videos evermade." So this is somebody
that's never seen any othermusic videos but okay.
And name redacted.
in all caps said,"I easily agreewith you, Meat Loaf mesmerizes
me in this video.
(21:17):
I am drawn to him like a baby tobreast milk." There's some
fucking weirdos out there.
Sam (21:24):
There are some oddballs out there Emma.
Emma (21:26):
Oh my God.
Like a baby.
To
Sam (21:29):
Okay, baby.
To breast milk.
Emma (21:31):
Yeah.
That's what the people of theinternet to say.
Sam (21:34):
Lovely.
What do we have to say?
Is it time to rate this song?
Emma (21:37):
I think it is.
Sam (21:38):
Okay.
Well, we're gonna rate this onour Jim Steinman Steinman song
rating scale, which runs fromJim Steinman up at the top to
Jim Fineman for those songs,what are in the Middle, all the
way down to Jim Declineman forthe bad songs, what he wrote.
Emma (21:52):
Yes, I know.
what What is this?
Sam (21:55):
I know what I think
Emma (21:56):
what do you think it
Sam (21:57):
It's a Jim Steinman.
Emma (21:59):
You think so?
Sam (21:59):
It's a really good song.
It is definitely, probablymarred by the context of the
horrible sounding show that itappears in.
But.
It's then been decontextualizedfrom that by being put on the
Dead Ringer album.
That's my pitch.
Emma (22:17):
Okay.
I can roll with that.
Sam (22:18):
You don't have to roll with
Emma (22:19):
that.
No, I think
Sam (22:20):
were you, were
Emma (22:21):
is a good song.
I'm I it was top end of fine.
Okay.
Or bottom end of Stein.
And I think I can roll with thatbecause Meat Loaf does a really
good job with it
Sam (22:33):
He does do a really good job of it.
No wonder they got him to singit at the audition'cause it's
perfect for his voice.
So we are gonna call this a JimSteinman ding.
Emma (22:45):
a ding
Sam (22:46):
I thought throw a ding in.
Emma (22:47):
Fair enough.
I Sam, what have you brought?
Sam (22:51):
Emma I have brought Meat Loaf's cover of California
Dreamin'.
I bet
Emma (22:55):
I bet that's brilliant.
Sam (22:56):
Well, we're gonna find out in a minute.
This was on the album Hell in aHandbasket, which was released
in 2011 or 2012, depending onwhere you But you can find it on
YouTube or Spotify or a car bootsale, I imagine.
So listeners, go away, findthat.
We're gonna listen to it now.
We'll all meet back here inabout five minutes.
Emma (23:15):
Bring snacks.
Soundtrack (23:16):
Leaves.
Sam (23:34):
Meat Loaf's cover of California Dreamin' from 2012's
Hell in a Handbasket.
Emma, your face told a thousandwords, but let's have a thousand
words out of your face.
Emma (23:48):
It's not my favourite...
song that we've listened totoday.
Good grief.
there's so much wrong with it.
Okay, so the original song, wasit The Mamas and Papas?
Sam (24:01):
The Mamas and the Papas did do an earlier version.
Somebody else recorded a versionbefore them
Emma (24:05):
version that I'm familiar with is the Mamas and the Papas.
And oh God.
The way that Meat Loaf sings it,he misses the rhythm throughout.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
And this is, this is somethingthat I've picked up on before
with Meat Loaf.
The last time I went to see himwhen I was, I think I was about
20.
And he was going through a notgood phase.
(24:26):
I think his health had beensuffering and I went to see him
with my mum and my dad thistime.
And he wrecked every single oneof his songs by not singing the
correct rhythm.
Yeah.
The tune was off as well.
Yeah.
But the rhythm was out.
Yeah.
And he kept using the samerhythm for everything.
And it just, it really throwsyou off a song because there's
nothing wrong with doing acover.
(24:48):
There are some absolutely bloodybrilliant covers out there.
And some covers are better thanthe originals.
This is not one of them there'ssome serious two thousands
production going on in there.
Sam (24:59):
There is, we can thank Paul Crook of the Neverland for
production on Hell in aHandbasket,
Emma (25:04):
very funny noises
Sam (25:07):
i'm about to make a spirited defense of this song.
I'm not in any way claiming thisis a good cover of this song,
but it is exactly the sort ofthing that Meat Loaf should have
been trying to do at that age.
Because the rest of this albumis more of the same.
Well, let's go to an interviewwith Leigh Valley Live, where
(25:29):
the origin of the name of thealbum,"the world's gone to hell
in a hand basket every day thatI listen to the news, I think
the hand basket is gettingbigger," Meat Loaf says,"it's
crazy out there." does that makeit worse if the hand basket is
big?
I is what?
Emma (25:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very much.
What I think I've read thisquote before as well and found
myself thinking that'smeaningless garbage,
Sam (25:54):
hell is the problem, not the basket Meat Loaf goes on to
say,"I'm not picking on one sideor the other.
They're all nuts", which we allknow is code for.
I'm on the bad side, but I don'twant to admit it.
Emma (26:06):
I'm one of the baddies now.
Sam (26:09):
and then I'll skip over to a review of this album by Paul
Whitelaw for the BBC.
Emma (26:13):
Okay.
Sam (26:14):
He says of this album,"all he's prepared to communicate is
a sort of non-specific rage,couched in generic metaphors
about rainstorms, making himsound less like an apocalyptic
preacher and more like aweatherman having a mental
breakdown.
It's simply not good enough tosplutter,'I cannot believe this
stuff' without bothering toexplain what this stuff actually
(26:35):
is."
Emma (26:36):
so true though.
Sam (26:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So that's what Meat Loaf's up toat that age.
But this is him.
Well, again, I'll go back toMeat Loaf.
In the interview with LeighValley Live,"he says he never
paid much attention to thissong, dismissing it as standard
pop tune when it first debuted."How can you miss that?
Like I was maybe six years oldwhen I heard this song, and I
would've thought to myself,gosh, this is terribly
(26:59):
melancholy, isn't it?
Yeah.
Meat Loaf thinks it's about fearof failure, but I, it's a song
that a, an aging musician with afailing voice should be trying
to make something interestingout of.
And I'm not saying he has, Yeah.
Emma (27:15):
if he'd have Johnny Cashed it.
If
Sam (27:17):
he'd have Johnny Cashed it, I think even with that
arrangement and that singing afew tweaks here and there,
would've made it
Emma (27:24):
less cringeworthy
Sam (27:25):
better
Emma (27:26):
sexy saxomaphone.
Sam (27:28):
Saxomaphone Jesus Sexy saxomaphone See, that's Patti
Russo on the backing vocalsthere.
Doing her best to salvagesomething,
Emma (27:38):
doing what she does,
Sam (27:39):
Yeah.
is
Emma (27:40):
best to salvage a shit
Sam (27:41):
Meat Loaf's career.
Emma (27:43):
It's not for me.
Sam (27:44):
No.
just me.
No.
Well, Emma, would you like apalate cleanser?
Emma (27:48):
Go on.
Then
Sam (27:48):
let's have a listen to the original version.
Okay.
Which as you've already forcedme to reveal, wasn't actually by
the Mamas and the Papas, thefirst recording of this is by
Barry McGuire.
Do you know Barry McGuire?
Emma (27:58):
I don't think I do.
Sam (27:59):
Sixties folky singer.
His biggest song is a songcalled Eve of Destruction which
is quite good, but it's a veryon the nose Vietnam protest
song.
Right.
But have a bang on this.
Soundtrack (28:13):
the,
Emma (28:25):
That's good,
Sam (28:26):
It's good.
Does it sound familiar?
Emma (28:29):
Yeah.
Sam (28:30):
Well, here we go, Emma.
Here's the twist within thetwist.
This song was written by Johnand Michelle Phillips of the
folk band, the New Journeymen,who then got it recorded by
Barry McGuire on Dunhi llRecords.
New Journeymen provided thebacking lyrics under their new
name, the Mamas and the Papas.
And then not long after that,Lou Adler, who was the head of
(28:52):
Dunhill Records, he was soimpressed with the Mamas and the
Papas that he had them rerecordthe single, but using the same
backing tracks that had beenlaid down for Barry McGuire.
This happened to Meat Loaf, wetalked about when he was with
Motown, with Meat Loaf andStoney.
He stomped off in a huff'cause Ican't remember who it was now,
but somebody else rerecorded oneof their songs, but they just
took out their So the same trickwas pulled here and Wow.
(29:14):
The harmonica solo was replacedwith a flute solo by Bud Shank,
and that was apparentlyimprovised.
The fun twist within a twist,can just about hear a bit of
Barry McGuire's original vocalsthat are left on the left at the
beginning of the Mamas and thePapas version.
And you can also just about makeout his harmonica solo
(29:36):
underneath the flute solo.
We know it by now.
But obviously that's the bestversion in the world ever.
I've been on such a Mamas andthe Papas hit today thanks to
this song.
So I'm forgiving Meat Loaf,everything.
Emma (29:52):
I've just been living in terror while you've going off on
this sort of little tangent.
Yeah.
that somehow you were gonnainvolve Mr Blobby in it
Sam (30:02):
What?
Why would I do that?
Strange,
Emma (30:04):
Don't you gaslight me, Wilkinson.
Sam (30:07):
So this song's been covered a few times, Emma.
It has um, notably by AmericaUhhuh the Beach Boys did a
version.
Meat Loaf's cover is sohistorically insignificant that
it doesn't appear in the list ofcovers on the Wikipedia page.
Yep.
But there's this, which is by aGerman dance something outfit
called Freischwimmer.
(30:28):
the whole thing looks and soundslike a Grattan advert.
Soundtrack (30:31):
All and the sky is grey.
Sam (30:43):
I generally don't know if I like that or not.
it's achingly cool, isn't
Emma (30:47):
it?
in a way that makes it probablyquite uncool.
Sam (30:50):
Yeah.
Emma (30:50):
it's trying very hard to be achingly hip and I don't know
if it is.
Sam (30:54):
Yeah.
But coming from someone whohasn't been anywhere near
achingly hip in the past, let'ssay 15 years, be generous.
Emma (31:02):
Are we talking me or you here?
Okay.
As we know, I am
Sam (31:05):
still yeah, you're still achingly hip.
Yeah.
I'm not getting into those kindof clubs anymore.
that was the 2016 version byFreischwimmer, which was the
first time that song ever got tonumber one.
Wow.
Yeah.
None of the previous versionsmade it to number one.
So
Emma (31:21):
it's cool then.
Sam (31:22):
is cool.
Yeah.
53 years since its first releasetill it got to number
Emma (31:27):
and it took somebody to feed it through both a John
Lewis machine and the dancemusic machine as well.
Sam (31:33):
That's all it takes, Emma.
Yeah.
Now that 53 years thing is quiteinteresting'cause by that
metric, this song is over athousand times worse than Mr.
Blobby by Mr.
Blobby, which only took 19 daysto go to number one released on
the 30th of November, number oneon the 11th of December.
You alright?
Yeah, yeah, We're just doing apodcast.
(31:53):
What's up with you?
It's over now.
You're fine.
Emma (32:01):
Is there no quiz?
Sam (32:02):
Well, there is a quiz.
Yeah.
Do you wanna do the quiz?
Emma (32:04):
I was gonna say it's never over, Sam.
It's never over.
Sam (32:07):
Here are three quotes from reviews.
Which of them isn't from areview of Meat Loaf's cover of
this song?
A.
"There aren't words enough todescribe the horror.
B.
"This track is completelyunnecessary".
C,"most irritating."
Emma (32:25):
The one that's about Meat
Sam (32:28):
No.
One of them isn't.
Emma (32:30):
Sorry.
Say A isn't.
Sam (32:32):
So thus far in this series this is episode five and I
believe you are three.
One up.
You're now three two up.
Emma (32:43):
No.
Sam (32:45):
There aren't words enough to describe the horror of the
cover of California Dreamin' bythe Mamas and the Papas.
Meat Loaf duets with longtimetouring vocalist, Patti Russo,
on this slow overblown take ofan otherwise beautiful song".
That's from Consequence.
Do you wanna choose between thecompletely unnecessary or most
irritating?
Emma (33:02):
I think most irritating is probably Blobby.
Sam (33:05):
Yeah, you are right.
Yes.
The track is completelyunnecessary," This comes from
Goldmine.
"Comes off more like karaokenext to the Mamas and the Papas
original.
Patti Russo's classy backingvocals, attempt to salvage a
song halfway through, but to noavail.
The track is completelyunnecessary even for b-side
fodder", absolute slamming.
Here's a quote from ClassicRock, which didn't make it into
(33:27):
the quiz.
"This album is hobbled by MeatLoaf's tendency to go on on a
bit," and then Mick Wall in Likea Bat out of Hell, called it a
"mad cover."
Emma (33:35):
Yeah, that's
Sam (33:36):
all he had to say about it.
Most irritating.
That was from a review of Mr.
Blobby singer of the single Mr.
Blobby in the Independent.
Mr.
Blobby wasn't popular among allhis fellow entertainers.
Michael Parkinson's found thecharacter to be"far from
amusing" while Bob Mortimercalled him"a pink spotty rubber
twat." And then here's a bit ofuh, Mr.
(33:57):
Blobby memories fun, which I'dforgotten about.
Do you remember, in 1994, it hitthe news that Mr.
Blobby had reduced a child totears at her own birthday party.
'cause he went in and chuckedher cake on the floor.
And her father attacked Mr.
Blobby on stage.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Emma (34:15):
And that's a real thing and not one of the Noel's house
party pranks.
Sam (34:19):
No.
That was a real thing thathappened.
Yeah.
Emma (34:21):
the nineties
Sam (34:23):
What a time.
Time.
Do you wanna hear what thepeople of the internet
Emma (34:26):
Yes.
Sam (34:27):
Well, much like you, I've brought somebody who likes
responding to people.
Okay.
The first comment is from ElijahSway.
This is four years ago.
Meat Loaf owns this song now" Towhich Dennis McGrath 30 88,
replied three months ago.
"The Mamas and the Papas do",and then Elijah Sway came out of
(34:49):
hibernation to say"they may bethe original, but Meat Loaf did
it better" Give it up, ElijahSway.
Then further down, Don Jay, 7 77, 2 years ago,"the critics can
be damned to hell.
This is better than theoriginal," which Dennis McGrath
30 88 replied three months ago.
"Worse."
Emma (35:10):
Dennis McGrath fighting the good fight.
Yeah,
Sam (35:13):
and that's it.
Shall we rate the song?
I think we probably should Let'srate the song Emma.
So this is a Meat Loaf song thatdidn't have Jim Steinman
involved.
So we rate these on our MichaelLee Aday scale, running from
Michael Lee Aday for his goodsongs down to Michael Lee Okay,
for his all right, averageysongs all the way down to
Michael Lee.
No way.
(35:33):
What's the story, pal?
Emma (35:35):
For me, this is a
Sam (35:36):
is it?
Emma (35:37):
Yeah.
It's bad, Sam.
Sam (35:39):
It is bad, but
Emma (35:41):
I know it's not,
Sam (35:42):
want to reward intent.
No,
Emma (35:47):
I know.
It's not like bad in a creepyway.
Sam (35:51):
Yeah.
Some of the stuff that fallsinto the Michael Lee Aday slash
Jim Declineman is genuinelyhorrible, Unpleasant stuff.
And it's not that
Emma (36:00):
It's not even fun.
Like California isn't BigEnough.
Which is brilliant fun.
This is not fun.
This is a slog.
it's an immediate skip if itcomes on.
Sam (36:11):
What, on this album.
On this album, Emma, this isyour oasis of peace.
Emma (36:16):
I suspect this is an immediate skip kind of an album.
I
Sam (36:21):
Oh, I can't wait to listen to Stand in the Storm again.
Emma (36:24):
No, we're not listening to that one either.
It tortures a beautiful song.
Tortures it.
It takes a bleak but beautifulsong with so much soul and
pisses on
Sam (36:36):
it.
but he's not trying to piss onit.
He's really trying to record anappropriate song for a man his
age with a voice in hiscondition.
Emma (36:47):
If you had kids, your fridge would be covered in in
terrible artwork.
it'd just get more and morelayers of terrible artwork
because the intent was there.
Sam (36:57):
I don't know what to say to that.
Other than sorry to all youparents listening.
And also, as you well know,Emma, I've got a fitted kitchen
and my fridge.
my fridge is behind a woodencabinet,
Emma (37:13):
So is mine.
And I mourned my loss of fridgemagnets
Sam (37:16):
too.
Otherwise, I'd have Maisie'sartwork
Emma (37:18):
up there.
Sam (37:19):
Every, I think we're gonna have to split vote on this
Emma (37:22):
Okay.
Sam (37:23):
I think it's an okay.
Emma (37:24):
It's a no
Sam (37:26):
This is a, that was the Tim Allen noise from the end of home
improvement.
Emma (37:33):
It's been a while since you've done one of those
Sam (37:36):
Ooh, Listeners, if you would like to swing the vote,
either way, please do drop us anemail chatoutofhell@gmail.com
Emma (37:44):
You do of course know that I am right,
Sam (37:46):
So that was our songs this episode.
Emma (37:48):
Yes it was.
Sam (37:49):
Did you like our songs?
Did you agree with our ratings?
You couldn't possibly agree withall of our ratings'cause you are
one person and we are two.
Drop us an emailchatoutofhell@gmail.com.
And if you are the person whosigned chatoutofhell@gmail.com
up to a match.com account.
Thanks, I
Emma (38:05):
guess.
Oh no.
Yeah.
God.
I find it funny.
But
Sam (38:11):
Thanks for the bantz lads.
We do have a comment on Spotify.
Yeah.
thanks to LivinAfterMidnight,who left a comment on our last
episode about No Matter What.
"Good one as usual," thanksLivinAfterMidnight.
"Here in America, virtually noone has heard the Boyzone
version, so Meat's felt freshand new".
(38:31):
And that's a fair point.
Boy bands don't travel so well,do they?
Emma (38:35):
No, they certainly don't travel from the UK to the US
particularly
Sam (38:39):
or Ireland to the us
Emma (38:41):
Sorry.
From Ireland to the US.
Because I'm so indifferenttowards the boy bands.
I forget where
Sam (38:47):
Well, I don't think we had a successful homegrown British
boy band in that era.
We had a few minor ones, but thebig ones, Boyzone and Westlife
were both Irish.
Emma (38:55):
I mean, there was Take That.
Sam (38:58):
Which now I think about it outsold the both of them by
miles.
why let facts get in the way ofa good, good bit of podcast,
eh?,
Emma (39:08):
You can prove anything with facts.
Sam (39:09):
Cool.
Well, thank you.
LivinAfterMidnight.
And if you want, you can alsoleave a message on Spotify,
which I might spot at some pointwhenever I log into our Spotify
creators account.
So yeah.
Next time, we are coming up tothe final episode of series
five.
And as has now becometraditional, we'll be dipping
into our requests bin.
And Emma, what are you gonnabring?
Emma (39:29):
I'm gonna bring Good Girls Go to Heaven.
That was requested by ChrisMatts.
And that's gonna be from the Batout of Hell Two album and I'm
looking forward
Sam (39:38):
it.
It's a good one.
Emma (39:39):
It's a good one.
Sam (39:40):
And then somebody called Tom Wilkinson.
I wonder who that could be.
I dunno.
There's a famous actor one,which is probably who it is.
That seems likely..
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's requested Meat Loaf's coverof Somebody Loves Me uh, which
was released in 1994 and I don'tthink I've ever heard it, so.
Oh, wonderful.
I'm looking forward to that.
That's a Gershwin song that'sdead classy in that.
Yeah.
Emma (40:00):
Good.
Sam (40:01):
So there we go.
Let us know what you think aboutthose listeners.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
Please continue giving us fivestars on your podcast listening
app of choice.
Recommend us to your friends oryour dentist.
Chat Out Of Hell is one of theonly podcast names that you can
nearly say with your mouthjammed wide open.
So, perfect.
how Emma's trying it right now.
(40:22):
Keep your Meat Loaf thoughts andanecdotes flying in.
Did you see Meat Loaf playingAlex Kidd in Miracle World?
The game that came built intothe Sega System?
Let us know.
chatoutofhell@gmail.com.
That's it.
I think any other business,Emma?
All business concluded.
We'll see you next time for thelast in this series of Chat out
of Hell!
Emma (40:41):
Bye.
You'll not do goodbye.
Sam (40:43):
Yeah.
Bye
Emma (40:45):
bye.
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