Soul Man: Blackface, Blackface, Satire, Blackface, Blackface

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker: I don't feel like I should be having an opinion on this again. (00:03):
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Speaker: I feel very uncomfortable having an opinion. (00:06):
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Speaker: That's what makes this so fun for me. (00:08):
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Speaker: Um, okay, so like I'm not going to get that many other (00:11):
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Speaker: opportunities to do this. (00:15):
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Speaker: Let's go. (00:16):
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Speaker: Um, so, so you have to wait (00:17):
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Speaker: until we're, we're going to tear (00:19):
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Speaker: apart gentle. (00:21):
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Speaker: And then we are I'm all over it, and then I'm just be like, fuck. (00:22):
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Speaker: Um, I don't want to talk about this, um, cinematic heart taste. (00:25):
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Speaker: Bad taste. (00:32):
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Speaker: We're bringing it back. (00:32):
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Speaker: If it's got issues, we got your back. (00:37):
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Speaker: All right. (00:42):
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Speaker: Welcome to Cinematic Problematics, where we celebrate (00:42):
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Speaker: your guilty pleasures. (00:45):
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Speaker: I am Christy Redding, and I am (00:46):
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Speaker: Aaron Maxwell, and I am the (00:48):
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Speaker: black one. (00:51):
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Speaker: So I get to introduce the movie this time. (00:51):
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Speaker: Uh, today we're talking about (00:54):
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Speaker: the controversial nineteen (00:56):
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Speaker: eighty six film Soul Man, (00:57):
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Speaker: starring C Thomas Howell Rae, (00:58):
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Speaker: Dawn Chong, R.E. gross, James (01:00):
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Speaker: Earl Jones, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, (01:02):
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Speaker: Melora Hardin, and Leslie (01:04):
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Speaker: Nielsen. (01:05):
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Speaker: It tells the story of Mark (01:06):
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Speaker: Watson, who is an affluent UCLA (01:08):
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Speaker: student who gets into Harvard (01:09):
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Speaker: Law School. (01:10):
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Speaker: The only problem is his dad decides that he's not going to (01:11):
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Speaker: pay for it to show him a little bit of responsibility. (01:14):
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Speaker: So he tries to get loans, but he can't because his credit sucks. (01:17):
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Speaker: Then his friend tells him about a scholarship meant for black (01:21):
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Speaker: applicants, so he buys some tanning pills and dons a very (01:23):
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Speaker: cool wig to get the scholarship. (01:26):
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Speaker: And it works. (01:27):
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Speaker: And Hilariousness ensues. (01:28):
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Speaker: He falls in love with Rae Dawn Chong, who we learn was supposed (01:30):
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Speaker: to get the scholarship bu he has sex with a white woman who (01:33):
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Speaker: fetishizes black men. (01:36):
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Speaker: He gets evicted by racist (01:37):
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Speaker: landlord and tries (01:39):
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Speaker: unsuccessfully to play (01:40):
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Speaker: basketball. (01:41):
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Speaker: In the end, he is exposed and (01:42):
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Speaker: learns the error of his ways and (01:44):
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Speaker: commits to giving back to the (01:45):
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Speaker: black community. (01:46):
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Speaker: I'm the Jewish one, so I get to be horrified by everything. (01:47):
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Speaker: Yeah, this is going to be a (01:52):
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Speaker: really interesting conversation, (01:53):
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Speaker: folks. (01:54):
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Speaker: Let's, uh, let's get started. (01:55):
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Speaker: So so let's let's go back, Aaron. (01:56):
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Speaker: Let's go back to the year nineteen eighty six. (01:58):
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Speaker: Let's go back to the year that the. (02:00):
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Speaker: This movie came out. (02:02):
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Speaker: So tell me about your experience watching this movie when you (02:03):
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Speaker: first saw it. (02:05):
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Speaker: I first saw this the way many six year olds saw this, which (02:07):
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Speaker: was on HBO, with repeated viewings that were forced down (02:11):
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Speaker: our throat because there was nothing else on around two p m (02:15):
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Speaker: on a Sunday. (02:18):
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Speaker: And even being very young, I (02:19):
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Speaker: knew that this was very, very (02:21):
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Speaker: wrong. (02:23):
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Speaker: And going back to this forty (02:24):
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Speaker: some odd years later, this was a (02:26):
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Speaker: fever dream. (02:28):
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Speaker: This was so difficult to watch and I had to stop it. (02:29):
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Speaker: I had to go outside and touch some grass and feel the earth (02:34):
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Speaker: and just take a moment to myself and remember that I was okay, (02:39):
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Speaker: and then kind of figure out where I stood, and then go back (02:44):
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Speaker: and then watch a really shitty Stevie Wonder impression, and (02:48):
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Speaker: then go back outside and figure out what was going on with my (02:53):
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Speaker: life and how I came to this portion of it. (02:57):
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Speaker: Mhm. (03:00):
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Speaker: And that's basically how I came to it. (03:01):
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Speaker: It was very I feel so good. (03:03):
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Speaker: I can't even speak of this film. (03:05):
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Speaker: I feel so conflicted. (03:08):
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Speaker: Well we're going to talk about (03:10):
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Speaker: it anyways and I can't wait to (03:11):
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Speaker: make you extremely (03:12):
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Speaker: uncomfortable. (03:13):
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Speaker: So um, when I first saw the (03:14):
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Speaker: movie, it was during the cable (03:16):
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Speaker: days. (03:17):
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Speaker: It was either. (03:18):
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Speaker: I think I might have seen it in (03:19):
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Speaker: the theater, but I. I couldn't (03:20):
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Speaker: recall how many times I had seen (03:22):
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Speaker: it. (03:24):
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Speaker: But as I started to rewatch it, I realized that I knew a lot of (03:24):
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Speaker: the lines, which meant I watched it a lot. (03:29):
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Speaker: I must have been about, I don't know, like eight or something (03:32):
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Speaker: when I first saw it. (03:34):
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Speaker: And like Aaron, it's like part of me knew it was wrong. (03:35):
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Speaker: And so when I when I knew that we were going to talk about this (03:38):
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Speaker: film, I was like, I know I'm gonna hate it. (03:41):
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Speaker: I know I'm gonna hate it. (03:43):
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Speaker: So I had to kind of go through (03:44):
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Speaker: this whole deprogramming in my (03:45):
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Speaker: brain, exercise and be like, (03:47):
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Speaker: okay, you need to go into this (03:48):
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Speaker: movie with a really, really open (03:50):
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Speaker: mind. (03:51):
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Speaker: Like, don't automatically hate it from the beginning. (03:51):
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Speaker: Obviously, it's doing something (03:54):
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Speaker: that you just don't ever do in a (03:55):
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Speaker: film. (03:56):
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Speaker: Right. (03:57):
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Speaker: We'll get to that. (03:57):
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Speaker: But at the same time, go in impartially. (03:58):
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Speaker: Try to be as impartial as you can, try to be fair. (04:02):
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Speaker: Try to understand where the filmmakers were coming from, if (04:08):
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Speaker: you can, you know, and try to try to see if there's any good (04:11):
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Speaker: to glean from the film. (04:15):
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Speaker: Yeah. (04:18):
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Speaker: But at the same time, when we were putting together the list (04:18):
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Speaker: of what films were going to cover, this was really high up (04:20):
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Speaker: and almost immediate. (04:23):
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Speaker: Because this film has a lot of notoriety. (04:24):
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Speaker: Oh, yeah. (04:27):
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Speaker: Everybody kind of remembers this film. (04:27):
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Speaker: Unless you're kind of like Gen Z and you're not really aware of (04:30):
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Speaker: it, because people kind of became aware of stop showing it. (04:33):
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Speaker: It doesn't get a lot of rerun play. (04:37):
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Speaker: No one ever, like, waxes poetic (04:38):
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Speaker: about it and remembers it (04:40):
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Speaker: fondly. (04:42):
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Speaker: No. And watches it again and (04:42):
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Speaker: again and shows it to their (04:44):
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Speaker: kids. (04:45):
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Speaker: So it's kind of now in the back (04:46):
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Speaker: burner of like, pop culture, (04:48):
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Speaker: right? (04:50):
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Speaker: It just survives off of notoriety. (04:50):
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Speaker: So it comes up on a bunch of lists of worst movies ever made. (04:52):
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Speaker: Problematic movies, things like that. (04:57):
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Speaker: Which is why it came up very high on our list. (04:59):
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Speaker: I think it was number three or four. (05:01):
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Speaker: And I think we highlighted it on our list. (05:02):
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Speaker: Yes. (05:04):
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Speaker: Because it's so bad. (05:05):
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Speaker: So bad. (05:06):
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Speaker: Like, should we go back to this? (05:07):
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Speaker: And one of the things I and I, we talked about this off mic and (05:09):
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Speaker: I'm going to talk about it here is like one of my favorite (05:13):
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Speaker: quotes about Hunter S Thompson is when he's wandering high off (05:15):
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Speaker: his ass through Circus Circus, and he looks through all the (05:19):
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Speaker: tackiness and the gamblers, and he says, that Circus Circus (05:23):
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Speaker: basically looks like what everybody in America would be (05:27):
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Speaker: doing on a Saturday night had the Nazis won the war. (05:29):
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Speaker: And Soul Man is the movie that they would probably take in. (05:32):
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Speaker: Oh, no, they would love it. (05:36):
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Speaker: Probably. (05:37):
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Speaker: They'd be like, oh, this is so great. (05:38):
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Speaker: Actually, I think they might (05:39):
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Speaker: have changed the ending a little (05:41):
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Speaker: bit. (05:42):
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Speaker: But, you know, we'll talk about some alternative ways to tell (05:42):
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Speaker: the story later. (05:46):
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Speaker: Okay. (05:47):
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Speaker: Uh, just once again, I went into (05:48):
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Speaker: this movie with a completely (05:50):
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Speaker: open mind. (05:51):
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Speaker: And even like when it was on our (05:52):
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Speaker: list, I was like, I think that (05:53):
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Speaker: both of us are going to hate (05:55):
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Speaker: this. (05:56):
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Speaker: Should we even do this movie? (05:56):
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Speaker: You know, because it's like this (05:57):
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Speaker: show is supposed to be about, (05:59):
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Speaker: can we find redeeming qualities (06:00):
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Speaker: in movies that have problematic (06:02):
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Speaker: elements? (06:03):
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Speaker: And this movie is just one big problematic element, but. (06:04):
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Speaker: We should discuss. (06:10):
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Speaker: I'm going to try and squeeze (06:11):
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Speaker: some good out of it just as a (06:12):
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Speaker: heads up, and I would urge (06:13):
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Speaker: anybody to make their own (06:15):
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Speaker: assessment. (06:17):
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Speaker: I don't know if I want this movie to make any more money. (06:17):
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Speaker: I'm very conflicted about that. (06:19):
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Speaker: But but yeah, let's get let's get to talking about it. (06:20):
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Speaker: So this movie has some issues. (06:23):
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Speaker: Shall we go to the charges against it? (06:26):
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Speaker: Aaron. (06:28):
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Speaker: Um, it's really one charge and that's hate crime. (06:29):
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Speaker: It's a giant hate crime. (06:33):
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Speaker: It is very, very racist. (06:34):
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Speaker: But we can kind of break down (06:36):
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Speaker: exactly like the different (06:39):
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Speaker: points of racism, because (06:41):
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Speaker: there's some points of it that (06:42):
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Speaker: are more egregious than others, (06:44):
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Speaker: for sure. (06:46):
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Speaker: Outside of the fact that you've got a white man pretending to be (06:47):
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Speaker: a black man in order to steal a scholarship meant for (06:50):
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Speaker: minorities, which is probably the biggest issue. (06:53):
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Speaker: Every character in it is a stereotype or racist. (06:57):
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Speaker: So everybody on that sense is no matter what their race is, (07:00):
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Speaker: they're also kind of just a two dimensional, very, very paper (07:05):
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Speaker: thin kind of construct. (07:11):
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Speaker: So they don't really help anything. (07:13):
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Speaker: No one comes out of this unscathed. (07:14):
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Speaker: Everybody comes off as terrible except for Rae Dawn Chong. (07:17):
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Speaker: She's the only redeeming character. (07:20):
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Speaker: Yeah, she's she's the heart and soul of the movie. (07:22):
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Speaker: Maybe James Earl Jones. (07:25):
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Speaker: Oh. The kid, her son. (07:28):
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Speaker: Sure. (07:30):
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Speaker: One of the most adorable child (07:30):
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Speaker: actors I've ever seen in my (07:31):
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Speaker: entire life. (07:32):
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Speaker: Okay, sure. (07:32):
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Speaker: He'll get a pass. (07:33):
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Speaker: Yeah, he gets a pass. (07:33):
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Speaker: He didn't do anything racist the entire time. (07:34):
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Speaker: The only reason James Earl Jones may not get. (07:36):
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Speaker: I just question as to why he took the role. (07:38):
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Speaker: He found it hilarious in the article that we read. (07:41):
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Speaker: He said he found the script funny. (07:44):
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Speaker: He was just like, no, he's like. (07:46):
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Speaker: He was like laughing his butt off. (07:47):
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Speaker: James Earl Jones, Chrissy and I (07:49):
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Speaker: for research for this, we read (07:50):
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Speaker: an article in the LA times that (07:51):
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Speaker: was written in like, in the (07:53):
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Speaker: eighties. (07:55):
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Speaker: Eighty six. (07:56):
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Speaker: And it was a deep dive behind the scenes. (07:57):
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Speaker: And the woman that wrote it obviously did a set visit. (08:01):
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Speaker: And it goes in deep as to the making of this movie. (08:04):
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Speaker: But yeah. (08:08):
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Speaker: Yeah, I mean, and the fact that people like James Earl Jones (08:10):
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Speaker: were in it, like after I read that, I was just kind of like, (08:14):
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Speaker: okay, well, maybe, maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. (08:16):
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Speaker: Maybe he's seeing something and I don't, I don't know. (08:19):
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Speaker: I don't know. (08:21):
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Speaker: But, um. (08:21):
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Speaker: Aaron, what do you think? (08:22):
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Speaker: Do you think that our Gen Z audience knows about the history (08:23):
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Speaker: of blackface at all? (08:27):
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Speaker: Yes we do. (08:28):
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Speaker: Yeah, I think they absolutely do. (08:30):
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Speaker: I think that either someone told them. (08:32):
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Speaker: I think that a lot of them are very inquisitive. (08:36):
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Speaker: I think that they learn about it (08:38):
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Speaker: from either YouTube or they (08:40):
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Speaker: learn about it from historic (08:41):
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Speaker: TikTok. (08:42):
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Speaker: I think that they learn about it from their classes, and I think (08:43):
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Speaker: they learned about it in college, so they absolutely (08:46):
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Speaker: learned about it. (08:49):
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Speaker: I mean, you and I know about it, and we probably learned about it (08:49):
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Speaker: when we were very young. (08:52):
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Speaker: Well, I mean, I learned about it because I think my family told (08:55):
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Speaker: me about how bad it was. (08:58):
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Speaker: But yeah, I think I'm just gonna do I'm just gonna give, like, a (09:00):
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Speaker: brief, brief history of blackface for our listeners who (09:04):
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Speaker: may be in a school district where they are burning books, or (09:09):
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Speaker: they've gotten rid of critical race theory, which is not a (09:12):
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Speaker: thing in elementary schools, by the way, but whatever. (09:15):
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Speaker: So it started off in the nineteenth century with white (09:17):
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Speaker: actors painting themselves in shoe polish and burnt charcoal (09:22):
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Speaker: and or burnt cork. (09:27):
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Speaker: Sorry. (09:28):
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Speaker: And, uh, there was a very (09:29):
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Speaker: popular character named Jim Crow (09:30):
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Speaker: who was kind of like this (09:32):
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Speaker: bumbling character. (09:33):
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Speaker: And this was kind of like in response to black people asking (09:34):
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Speaker: for civil rights. (09:38):
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Speaker: And, uh, so they white actors decided to reclaim this as a (09:39):
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Speaker: form of superiority around them by making them look stupid and (09:44):
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Speaker: ignorant and uneducated. (09:47):
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Speaker: And so this lasted up until, (09:49):
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Speaker: like, I don't know, the fifties (09:51):
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Speaker: and sixties. (09:53):
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Speaker: You can see it all over the Hollywood movies and everything (09:53):
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Speaker: until people were like, wait a second, this is kind of racist (09:55):
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Speaker: and we shouldn't do it anymore. (09:58):
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Speaker: And so it became this thing that you just do not do like. (09:58):
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Speaker: It is one of the non actual (10:02):
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Speaker: criminal, criminal things that (10:06):
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Speaker: you can do in life is go in (10:07):
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Speaker: blackface. (10:10):
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Speaker: It is like one of the things (10:11):
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Speaker: that you just don't even attempt (10:11):
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Speaker: to do, don't even try to halfway (10:13):
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Speaker: do it. (10:14):
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Speaker: Don't even try to fully do it. (10:14):
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Speaker: Anytime you try to do this, even if you think you are being (10:16):
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Speaker: innocent, even if your intentions are good, it is never (10:18):
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Speaker: a good thing to go in blackface. (10:21):
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Speaker: So because of like the sordid history behind it, you just (10:23):
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Speaker: don't do it. (10:27):
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Speaker: Sorry. (10:28):
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Speaker: I just wanted to give a little (10:29):
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Speaker: brief history lesson, just in (10:30):
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Speaker: case people don't know that is (10:31):
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Speaker: fair. (10:33):
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Speaker: Okay, okay. (10:33):
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Speaker: What other do you want to elaborate on? (10:35):
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Speaker: The what I call the cultural (10:36):
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Speaker: misrepresentation and defamation (10:38):
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Speaker: charge? (10:39):
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Speaker: I just want to talk about the way Mark looks. (10:50):
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Speaker: Because in the article and it (10:54):
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Speaker: was written by Sheila Benson, (10:56):
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Speaker: and she makes a really good (10:58):
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Speaker: point. (11:00):
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Speaker: They don't put any effort into the way he looks. (11:00):
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Speaker: He literally looks like what was basically a a Ken doll. (11:04):
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Speaker: Like, they they just colored his skin and then threw on like, a (11:09):
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Speaker: California curl wig on him. (11:13):
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Speaker: And then that was the extent of it. (11:16):
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Speaker: They didn't change his clothes or put any effort into the (11:17):
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Speaker: manner in which he spoke or, or do anything else. (11:21):
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Speaker: There was no other research that (11:24):
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Speaker: was put into it, and then that (11:26):
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Speaker: was it. (11:27):
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Speaker: So it was all very either lazy (11:28):
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Speaker: or maybe that was a character (11:30):
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Speaker: choice. (11:33):
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Speaker: It is really hard to tell. (11:34):
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Speaker: It is hard to tell. (11:35):
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Speaker: And it's and I think that like (11:36):
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Speaker: the way that I took it, (11:38):
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Speaker: especially in the beginning (11:40):
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Speaker: because they don't make Mark out (11:41):
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Speaker: to be this highly emotionally (11:43):
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Speaker: intelligent dude. (11:45):
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Speaker: This seems like something that Mark would do. (11:47):
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Speaker: It seems like the way that he (11:49):
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Speaker: would think a black person would (11:51):
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Speaker: pass with a cheap Jheri curl wig (11:54):
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Speaker: and some tanning pills, and I (11:57):
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Speaker: think that might be part of the (11:59):
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Speaker: joke is that he is like, one of (12:02):
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Speaker: the whitest guys you've ever (12:04):
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Speaker: seen in your entire fucking (12:05):
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Speaker: life, and any attempt to try to (12:06):
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Speaker: make him look black fails (12:09):
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Speaker: spectacularly. (12:11):
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Speaker: I just didn't understand that. (12:13):
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Speaker: Like he's supposed to be from LA (12:15):
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Speaker: and he didn't have any black (12:16):
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Speaker: friends. (12:17):
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Speaker: Well, I mean, that happens a lot, actually. (12:19):
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Speaker: Like that. (12:21):
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Speaker: That like, I mean, if you live in, like, these affluent (12:21):
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Speaker: bubbles, like, if you're living in Brentwood, if you're living (12:24):
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Speaker: in Beverly Hills, if you're living in like, like, I mean, (12:26):
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Speaker: and his family is apparently very, very rich, right? (12:28):
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Speaker: And he's, like, expecting, like, this free ride from his dad. (12:31):
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Speaker: I mean, he has this beautiful house and everything, and. (12:34):
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Speaker: Yeah, I can totally I mean, in Manhattan Beach. (12:37):
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Speaker: Like, if it wasn't for me, there (12:39):
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Speaker: would be four hundred white (12:40):
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Speaker: students who had no black (12:42):
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Speaker: friends at Mira Costa High (12:44):
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Speaker: School. (12:46):
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Speaker: Okay, so. (12:46):
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Speaker: So there. (12:48):
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Speaker: Definitely possible. (12:49):
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Speaker: My ignorant ass went to Fairfax. (12:50):
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Speaker: And the Fairfax High school, like. (12:54):
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Speaker: Oh, like I don't get it. (12:57):
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Speaker: Like, how did they not have any black friends? (12:58):
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Speaker: No, no. Well, Fairfax. (13:01):
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Speaker: Fairfax. (13:03):
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Speaker: Much more diverse than Manhattan Beach. (13:04):
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Speaker: Let me just tell you. (13:07):
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Speaker: Um, um, so, so it's definitely possible. (13:08):
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Speaker: And it's like, look, I mean, he (13:11):
undefined

Speaker: even said, right, this is the (13:13):
undefined

Speaker: Cosby decade. (13:14):
undefined

Speaker: This is reference for who black people are. (13:15):
undefined

Speaker: It's the Cosby. (13:17):
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Speaker: And the thing that's funny about (13:18):
undefined

Speaker: that is that The Cosby Show is a (13:19):
undefined

Speaker: show that very deliberately (13:24):
undefined

Speaker: didn't talk about race very (13:26):
undefined

Speaker: explicitly. (13:28):
undefined

Speaker: It was very matter of fact. (13:29):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It was just like a black family (13:31):
undefined

Speaker: who happened to be very (13:32):
undefined

Speaker: successful. (13:34):
undefined

Speaker: He's a doctor. (13:35):
undefined

Speaker: She's a lawyer. (13:36):
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Speaker: There are kids are well adjusted for kids, you know, like they're (13:37):
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Speaker: pretty good kids. (13:40):
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Speaker: More or less like they don't go (13:41):
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Speaker: out crying or anything like (13:42):
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Speaker: that. (13:43):
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Speaker: And they just are a regular, (13:44):
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Speaker: affluent black family, and they (13:46):
undefined

Speaker: don't ever talk about being (13:48):
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Speaker: black. (13:49):
undefined

Speaker: They just never talked about it. (13:50):
undefined

Speaker: And so that's his reference. (13:51):
undefined

Speaker: It's like he doesn't know he (13:52):
undefined

Speaker: thinks that, oh, I'm Theo from (13:53):
undefined

Speaker: The Cosby Show or something like (13:56):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And all I have to do is put on a (13:57):
undefined

Speaker: wig and take some tanning pills (13:58):
undefined

Speaker: and mission accomplished, you (14:00):
undefined

Speaker: know? (14:02):
undefined

Speaker: And so for a lot of people, that was their reference. (14:02):
undefined

Speaker: But at the same time, you kind of have to recognize, despite (14:04):
undefined

Speaker: what you think about Bill Cosby, that that was kind of necessary (14:08):
undefined

Speaker: at the time, because the only thing that black people were (14:13):
undefined

Speaker: known for up until then was like breakdancing and shit like that. (14:16):
undefined

Speaker: Like, there weren't a ton of positive role models that showed (14:20):
undefined

Speaker: that, you know, you could, you know, be successful and just be (14:25):
undefined

Speaker: like a normal family, you know. (14:28):
undefined

Speaker: And and so very happy that The Cosby Show existed. (14:29):
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Speaker: But, you know, Mark's an idiot. (14:33):
undefined

Speaker: And I'm going to keep saying (14:35):
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Speaker: that throughout this entire (14:36):
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Speaker: podcast. (14:37):
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Speaker: Mark is a fucking idiot. (14:37):
undefined

Speaker: Totally. (14:38):
undefined

Speaker: Fine. (14:39):
undefined

Speaker: You're not going to get any argument from me. (14:39):
undefined

Speaker: But yeah, to go back to that, at that time, like most of what (14:41):
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Speaker: white America saw was on television, and The Cosby Show (14:45):
undefined

Speaker: is absolutely the only show at that time to ever show a black (14:48):
undefined

Speaker: family as affluent. (14:52):
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Speaker: Everything else, whether it's (14:54):
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Speaker: what's happening or whether it's (14:56):
undefined

Speaker: anything from the the Lear (14:58):
undefined

Speaker: universe, it's always going to (15:00):
undefined

Speaker: be showing them as struggling, (15:02):
undefined

Speaker: having a good time, happy go (15:04):
undefined

Speaker: lucky, whatever. (15:06):
undefined

Speaker: But it was always within this constraints of like urban life. (15:07):
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Speaker: And that's what it was like. (15:11):
undefined

Speaker: So groundbreaking too. (15:12):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: You know, so once again, I mean, going back to Mark and his (15:13):
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Speaker: comment about the Cosby decade, you know, and saying America (15:16):
undefined

Speaker: loves black people. (15:19):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, I laughed out loud. (15:21):
undefined

Speaker: That was the first time I laughed out loud in the movie, (15:22):
undefined

Speaker: by the way. (15:24):
undefined

Speaker: Like when I was rewatching it. (15:24):
undefined

Speaker: He's like, America loves black people. (15:26):
undefined

Speaker: Everything is going to be fine. (15:27):
undefined

Speaker: I was just like, oh, buddy, just you wait. (15:28):
undefined

Speaker: And I mean, but that in and of (15:31):
undefined

Speaker: itself is pointing directly to (15:33):
undefined

Speaker: his ignorance. (15:35):
undefined

Speaker: I rose my hand and covered my mouth in horror when he said (15:36):
undefined

Speaker: that, because it was like one after the other. (15:40):
undefined

Speaker: It was America loves black people. (15:43):
undefined

Speaker: Then followed by look at Bill Cosby. (15:46):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah I know. (15:48):
undefined

Speaker: There are so many, so many (15:49):
undefined

Speaker: things, so many thoughts, so (15:50):
undefined

Speaker: many thoughts. (15:52):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Yeah, I think that was also followed by it's just so much (15:53):
undefined

Speaker: was going on. (15:56):
undefined

Speaker: There's so much. (15:57):
undefined

Speaker: There's a lot. (15:58):
undefined

Speaker: Keep going. (15:59):
undefined

Speaker: What else? (16:00):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, let's talk about the, um, (16:01):
undefined

Speaker: looking at his landlord, played (16:03):
undefined

Speaker: by Leslie Nielsen, and then his (16:06):
undefined

Speaker: daughter. (16:08):
undefined

Speaker: That was Jan from the office. (16:10):
undefined

Speaker: We love Jan. We love Jan. It was (16:12):
undefined

Speaker: hard to watch Jan in this role (16:14):
undefined

Speaker: again. (16:15):
undefined

Speaker: Yes, it was very difficult to watch Jan throw herself at Marc. (16:15):
undefined

Speaker: That was fetishizing him and it was very cringey. (16:20):
undefined

Speaker: And then at the same time, she (16:27):
undefined

Speaker: was also very young and I (16:29):
undefined

Speaker: imagine that this was her first (16:31):
undefined

Speaker: role. (16:32):
undefined

Speaker: So I just imagined she didn't really have much say. (16:32):
undefined

Speaker: Can I, can I just say something like when I was watching, like (16:35):
undefined

Speaker: the first scene with Melora Hardin, the first thing that I (16:37):
undefined

Speaker: wrote down was she gives amazing fetishize her eyes because she (16:39):
undefined

Speaker: is looking at him like he is a slab of fucking meat and she is (16:44):
undefined

Speaker: like ready to go for it, man. (16:47):
undefined

Speaker: She does crazy so well. (16:49):
undefined

Speaker: She does crazy great. (16:51):
undefined

Speaker: She's fantastic. (16:52):
undefined

Speaker: Like if like the direction must have been, I'm guessing it must (16:53):
undefined

Speaker: have been like, imagine you are a woman and your only fantasy. (16:58):
undefined

Speaker: Like you get off on the (17:03):
undefined

Speaker: suffering of other people and (17:04):
undefined

Speaker: like, this guy epitomizes (17:06):
undefined

Speaker: suffering and it just gets you (17:07):
undefined

Speaker: off. (17:08):
undefined

Speaker: And she was like, got it? (17:08):
undefined

Speaker: You know, I always I think she (17:10):
undefined

Speaker: just wanted to make her dad (17:13):
undefined

Speaker: upset. (17:14):
undefined

Speaker: Oh for sure. (17:16):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, well, I mean, I think that's definitely part of it. (17:17):
undefined

Speaker: I think that both are true, right? (17:19):
undefined

Speaker: And maybe, like her, her love of black men manifested itself out (17:21):
undefined

Speaker: of her hatred for her father to, like, get back at her dad. (17:25):
undefined

Speaker: If you actually look at this as a prequel to The Office, it (17:28):
undefined

Speaker: actually makes a lot of sense. (17:31):
undefined

Speaker: Like, this is just like Jan's origin story. (17:33):
undefined

Speaker: And then she, like, goes on and, like, becomes an unhinged boss (17:37):
undefined

Speaker: of a paper company and then, like, loses her mind and starts (17:41):
undefined

Speaker: making candles at home. (17:44):
undefined

Speaker: Like it all. (17:46):
undefined

Speaker: Like the trajectory of it makes complete sense, by the way, that (17:46):
undefined

Speaker: if that's a sign of like, you losing your mind, that makes me (17:49):
undefined

Speaker: very sad, because that just sounds like a very peaceful (17:52):
undefined

Speaker: activity, but okay, of, like, making candles at home. (17:54):
undefined

Speaker: Why not? (17:57):
undefined

Speaker: I just feel like your house would smell like it would smell (17:59):
undefined

Speaker: like flowers constantly. (18:01):
undefined

Speaker: It sounds amazing. (18:02):
undefined

Speaker: It smelled like every candle. (18:03):
undefined

Speaker: Oh. You're right. (18:05):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Never mind. (18:06):
undefined

Speaker: I don't want that. (18:06):
undefined

Speaker: That's what that was like. (18:06):
undefined

Speaker: The plot point of like three. (18:08):
undefined

Speaker: The episode. (18:09):
undefined

Speaker: I'd probably crack a window or something, but. (18:09):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Point taken. (18:12):
undefined

Speaker: Can I just point out that there's an actual crime? (18:13):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: What was the actual crime? (18:16):
undefined

Speaker: Fraud. (18:17):
undefined

undefined

undefined

undefined

undefined

undefined

Speaker: Like he. (18:21):
undefined

Speaker: What he did was straight up illegal. (18:22):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (18:24):
undefined

Speaker: Like fraud. (18:25):
undefined

Speaker: He impersonated somebody of a (18:26):
undefined

Speaker: different race in order to (18:27):
undefined

Speaker: basically steal money from an (18:29):
undefined

Speaker: organization to fund his (18:30):
undefined

Speaker: education. (18:32):
undefined

Speaker: That is fraud. (18:33):
undefined

Speaker: That's super fraud. (18:34):
undefined

Speaker: Super fraud. (18:35):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (18:36):
undefined

Speaker: And, uh, didn't really pay the price for it and just went on (18:37):
undefined

Speaker: his merry way. (18:40):
undefined

Speaker: Unless you count working in the cafeteria is paying a price. (18:40):
undefined

Speaker: No, I do not. (18:43):
undefined

Speaker: I absolutely do not. (18:45):
undefined

Speaker: In the eighties, that was seen as the ultimate shun. (18:47):
undefined

Speaker: Really? (18:50):
undefined

Speaker: Because Ray did it like throughout the movie. (18:50):
undefined

Speaker: And no, that was a joke, obviously. (18:53):
undefined

Speaker: But but yeah, I mean it's to show. (18:55):
undefined

Speaker: Well, we get we'll I guess we'll get to it. (18:59):
undefined

Speaker: What other crimes or troubling things did you find? (19:01):
undefined

Speaker: I think that's everything I made a list for, because at that (19:06):
undefined

Speaker: point, the only other thing that I found that kind of offended (19:10):
undefined

Speaker: me, but it also kind of made me laugh in a more horrifying way, (19:13):
undefined

Speaker: where all of his impressions. (19:16):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It's more of just a crime against comedy. (19:19):
undefined

Speaker: Uh, some of it was actually kind of funny, though. (19:22):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, again, it's nothing you would ever see. (19:26):
undefined

Speaker: I want to say something you would ever see. (19:28):
undefined

Speaker: But then I recently saw it on Saturday Night Live with Rami (19:30):
undefined

Speaker: Malek doing prints. (19:35):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, and he did a really good prince. (19:36):
undefined

Speaker: But then they did call him out, (19:38):
undefined

Speaker: but he didn't do it in full (19:39):
undefined

Speaker: blackface either. (19:41):
undefined

Speaker: Well, because he looks kind of pretty. (19:42):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, because he looks kind of princey. (19:43):
undefined

Speaker: And then they called him out at the end. (19:44):
undefined

Speaker: He's like, well, you can't be Prince because you're white. (19:45):
undefined

Speaker: So obviously we're going to go with Kenan. (19:47):
undefined

Speaker: You know, um. (19:49):
undefined

Speaker: Fair point. (19:52):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So talking about things that (19:53):
undefined

Speaker: were bad, that still made me (19:55):
undefined

Speaker: laugh. (19:56):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Because I, I'm, I'm positive I (19:57):
undefined

Speaker: laughed more than you did in (19:58):
undefined

Speaker: this movie. (20:00):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Absolutely. (20:01):
undefined

Speaker: Um. (20:02):
undefined

Speaker: So. (20:02):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: The impersonations were great. (20:03):
undefined

Speaker: Let's talk about impersonations first. (20:04):
undefined

Speaker: Let's go into detail about impersonations. (20:05):
undefined

Speaker: Let's do a deep dive. (20:07):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So the first one that we see is the mom, like, fantasizing that (20:08):
undefined

Speaker: this black man is, like, ripping her blouse off and saying he's (20:12):
undefined

Speaker: gonna take her, like, is kind of like the fantasy of a wild black (20:15):
undefined

Speaker: man who is, like, aggressive in bed and is just going to take (20:19):
undefined

Speaker: this white woman and like it. (20:23):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, when I saw it, I mean, it's so over the top. (20:28):
undefined

Speaker: It's so bad. (20:31):
undefined

Speaker: It's so over the top. (20:32):
undefined

Speaker: So you have to imagine setting the stage a little bit. (20:33):
undefined

Speaker: So C Thomas Howell gets invited over to Melora Hardin's House. (20:36):
undefined

Speaker: Leslie Nielsen as her dad, meets (20:40):
undefined

Speaker: the mom and the son for the (20:42):
undefined

Speaker: first time. (20:43):
undefined

Speaker: Sons like maybe ten or something, listening to his (20:44):
undefined

Speaker: headphones at the dinner table. (20:46):
undefined

Speaker: And when they're looking at him, they each have their own fantasy (20:47):
undefined

Speaker: of what they imagine him to be. (20:50):
undefined

Speaker: The mom thinks of him as like (20:53):
undefined

Speaker: this, you know, savage, like (20:55):
undefined

Speaker: black man who rips her clothes (20:56):
undefined

Speaker: off and wants to have his way (20:58):
undefined

Speaker: with her. (20:59):
undefined

Speaker: The funniest one was the kid imagining him to be Prince. (21:01):
undefined

Speaker: The Prince impersonation. (21:05):
undefined

Speaker: Come on, the Prince is the best one. (21:06):
undefined

Speaker: You didn't laugh at Prince. (21:10):
undefined

Speaker: I laughed at Prince. (21:13):
undefined

Speaker: I laughed at the mom one because that was like, full on big Jim (21:14):
undefined

Speaker: Slade from Kentucky Fried Movie. (21:17):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, is what it kind of reminded me of. (21:19):
undefined

Speaker: And it was like kind of a parody of those, like, blaxploitation (21:22):
undefined

Speaker: movies that came out. (21:26):
undefined

Speaker: And so it was one hundred percent that. (21:28):
undefined

Speaker: And then I laughed at Prince, (21:30):
undefined

Speaker: the Prince, because it just (21:32):
undefined

Speaker: shocked me. (21:34):
undefined

Speaker: I had completely blocked that (21:34):
undefined

Speaker: out as a child, and I was (21:35):
undefined

Speaker: literally, like, brought my (21:38):
undefined

Speaker: hands to my face and went, oh my (21:39):
undefined

Speaker: God. (21:41):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So so the kid is like looking at (21:42):
undefined

Speaker: him as like a popular black (21:44):
undefined

Speaker: musician. (21:45):
undefined

Speaker: Like they must all be good at music or something like that. (21:45):
undefined

Speaker: And so he's envisioning Prince and Thomas Howell, God bless (21:47):
undefined

Speaker: him, does his best with the tongue, with the tongue against (21:50):
undefined

Speaker: like, the tar and the teeth and like, like, you know, the guitar (21:54):
undefined

Speaker: against the groin. (21:57):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, it's you have to see it, you have to be there. (21:58):
undefined

Speaker: But it's pretty funny. (22:02):
undefined

Speaker: And then and then Leslie (22:03):
undefined

Speaker: Nielsen's fantasy is just like, (22:04):
undefined

Speaker: whoo, ooh, ooh, that one hurt a (22:06):
undefined

Speaker: bit. (22:09):
undefined

Speaker: That one, that one. (22:09):
undefined

Speaker: I was just like, ah, okay. (22:10):
undefined

Speaker: Do you want to explain it or no I don't. (22:11):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, I'll do it. (22:13):
undefined

Speaker: I'll do it. (22:14):
undefined

Speaker: Like I said, I'm taking a lot of the heat here. (22:15):
undefined

Speaker: I'm gonna I'm gonna say it and (22:17):
undefined

Speaker: make Erin uncomfortable, but not (22:19):
undefined

Speaker: as uncomfortable as she would be (22:20):
undefined

Speaker: had she had to explain what this (22:22):
undefined

Speaker: scene is. (22:24):
undefined

Speaker: So essentially, Leslie Nielsen envisions Seattle. (22:24):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, so his daughters without (22:29):
undefined

Speaker: makeup, pregnant in like, a (22:32):
undefined

Speaker: nightgown and sitting at the (22:34):
undefined

Speaker: dinner table, and Saint Thomas (22:36):
undefined

Speaker: Howell is it's so bad as a wedge (22:37):
undefined

Speaker: of watermelon in his hand that (22:41):
undefined

Speaker: he's eating. (22:43):
undefined

Speaker: He's dressed like a pimp, and (22:43):
undefined

Speaker: he's just like going to town on (22:45):
undefined

Speaker: this watermelon. (22:46):
undefined

Speaker: And he's saying, hey, bitch, go (22:47):
undefined

Speaker: get my heroin and my hypodermic (22:49):
undefined

Speaker: needle. (22:51):
undefined

Speaker: And like. (22:51):
undefined

Speaker: And he looks at Leslie Nielsen, goes, what are you looking at? (22:52):
undefined

Speaker: And it's bad. (22:55):
undefined

Speaker: It's really bad. (22:56):
undefined

Speaker: And the only reason I'm laughing (22:57):
undefined

Speaker: is because it's so bad I can't (22:58):
undefined

Speaker: help it. (23:00):
undefined

Speaker: It's just an illogical reaction (23:01):
undefined

Speaker: to it because it's so over the (23:02):
undefined

Speaker: top bad. (23:04):
undefined

Speaker: And I cannot believe that they did it, that it's hilarious that (23:05):
undefined

Speaker: they actually did it. (23:08):
undefined

Speaker: That's why I'm laughing. (23:09):
undefined

Speaker: Aaron is horrified. (23:11):
undefined

Speaker: She's speechless. (23:12):
undefined

Speaker: I'm gonna. (23:13):
undefined

Speaker: It's just that at some point, there had to be other people in (23:14):
undefined

Speaker: that writers room or someone that just kind of go, this isn't (23:18):
undefined

Speaker: funny because there are people that were working on this film (23:22):
undefined

Speaker: that that was offensive because there had to. (23:26):
undefined

Speaker: But I'm willing to overlook it for the sake of comedy. (23:30):
undefined

Speaker: Well, here's here's the thing, though. (23:33):
undefined

Speaker: So once again, trying to give the benefit of the doubt here a (23:34):
undefined

Speaker: little bit, because I don't feel like I should be having an (23:38):
undefined

Speaker: opinion on this again. (23:41):
undefined

Speaker: I feel very uncomfortable having an opinion. (23:42):
undefined

Speaker: That's what makes this so fun for me. (23:44):
undefined

Speaker: Um, okay. (23:47):
undefined

Speaker: So, like, I'm not gonna get that (23:48):
undefined

Speaker: many other opportunities to do (23:50):
undefined

Speaker: this. (23:51):
undefined

Speaker: Let's go. (23:52):
undefined

Speaker: Um, so, so you have to wait until we're. (23:53):
undefined

Speaker: We're gonna tear apart Yentl, and then we are. (23:56):
undefined

Speaker: I'm all over it, and then I'm just be like, fuck. (23:58):
undefined

Speaker: Um, I don't want to talk about this. (24:01):
undefined

Speaker: Um, so. (24:02):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, if you look at it from the perspective of. (24:04):
undefined

Speaker: They're trying to show what Leslie Nielsen's character (24:08):
undefined

Speaker: thinks of him, right? (24:11):
undefined

Speaker: Which is awful, which is terrible. (24:14):
undefined

Speaker: He's thinking a terrible fucking (24:16):
undefined

Speaker: thing about her starting to give (24:18):
undefined

Speaker: him, like, this whole iceberg (24:19):
undefined

Speaker: slim. (24:20):
undefined

Speaker: Kind of like these are my hoes kind of thing. (24:20):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Like. (24:23):
undefined

Speaker: And I get it. (24:24):
undefined

Speaker: And it's just that. (24:24):
undefined

Speaker: Jesus fucking Christ, they went for it. (24:26):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, they really went for it. (24:29):
undefined

Speaker: Really went for it. (24:30):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah they did. (24:31):
undefined

Speaker: But it is all to kind of prove (24:32):
undefined

Speaker: this point about how this family (24:33):
undefined

Speaker: is perceiving him against all of (24:36):
undefined

Speaker: these different stereotypes, (24:39):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And in Leslie Nielsen's character's case, it is like why (24:41):
undefined

Speaker: he didn't want any black people living in his apartment building (24:46):
undefined

Speaker: is because that's the way he sees them, right? (24:48):
undefined

Speaker: And so maybe the idea was to not (24:50):
undefined

Speaker: whitewash it and to not make it (24:54):
undefined

Speaker: subtle, because what he thought (24:56):
undefined

Speaker: was so extreme that he just (24:58):
undefined

Speaker: didn't want any of these people (24:59):
undefined

Speaker: around his daughter at all, you (25:00):
undefined

Speaker: know? (25:02):
undefined

Speaker: So that's the way I'm choosing to frame it, because if I'm (25:02):
undefined

Speaker: looking at the movie as a whole and what I think it's trying to (25:07):
undefined

Speaker: do, it's terrible. (25:10):
undefined

Speaker: It's an awful, awful scene. (25:12):
undefined

Speaker: But it gets a pass because it's (25:13):
undefined

Speaker: trying to depict a very real (25:14):
undefined

Speaker: thing that people like Leslie (25:16):
undefined

Speaker: Nielsen's character think about (25:17):
undefined

Speaker: black men. (25:19):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And I get all that. (25:20):
undefined

Speaker: Here's where my issue lies. (25:22):
undefined

Speaker: And it's kind of like, again, (25:24):
undefined

Speaker: the LA times article that you (25:26):
undefined

Speaker: passed around. (25:27):
undefined

Speaker: And if you ever want to look it up, it's called Soul Man. (25:28):
undefined

Speaker: Not even good intentions makes this one bearable. (25:32):
undefined

Speaker: And it's by Sheila Benson. (25:35):
undefined

Speaker: They're describing filming one of the scenes, and they're (25:37):
undefined

Speaker: describing the scene where the two bros from Harvard are (25:41):
undefined

Speaker: walking through the cafeteria, and they're telling racist jokes (25:45):
undefined

Speaker: to each other. (25:49):
undefined

Speaker: And as these two bros are walking through the cafeteria (25:50):
undefined

Speaker: telling these racist jokes to each other, the entire cast are (25:52):
undefined

Speaker: watching them from behind the camera, stone faced. (25:56):
undefined

Speaker: And the writer is observing them and mentioning that C Thomas (26:00):
undefined

Speaker: Howell is not laughing. (26:05):
undefined

Speaker: Rae Dawn Chong is not. (26:06):
undefined

Speaker: No one is laughing at these jokes. (26:08):
undefined

Speaker: In fact, they are all very unhappy at these jokes or that (26:10):
undefined

Speaker: is what they look like. (26:13):
undefined

Speaker: Then the article continues to go (26:15):
undefined

Speaker: on to mention that the director (26:16):
undefined

Speaker: who wrote and rewrote much of (26:20):
undefined

Speaker: the script, Steve Miner, and he, (26:22):
undefined

Speaker: uh, he actually he's a pretty (26:27):
undefined

Speaker: decent director. (26:28):
undefined

Speaker: He did House and he did Lake (26:29):
undefined

Speaker: Placid, and he did Halloween, (26:31):
undefined

Speaker: H2O, and Friday the thirteenth (26:33):
undefined

Speaker: part two. (26:35):
undefined

Speaker: He explains that basically, he (26:36):
undefined

Speaker: wanted to create a film where (26:39):
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Speaker: laughing at the jokes made the (26:41):
undefined

Speaker: audience feel bad because he (26:43):
undefined

Speaker: wanted to make a point about (26:46):
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Speaker: racism. (26:48):
undefined

Speaker: But it dawns on me that in doing that, that means that he just (26:49):
undefined

Speaker: wanted a white audience, because you're not going to get that (26:54):
undefined

Speaker: reaction or that feeling from any other type of audience. (26:58):
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Speaker: You're not going to get that from a Jewish audience. (27:02):
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Speaker: You're not going to get that from a black audience. (27:04):
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Speaker: You're not going to get that from any kind of minority. (27:06):
undefined

Speaker: You're only going to get that (27:09):
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Speaker: from a white male audience, (27:10):
undefined

Speaker: probably. (27:12):
undefined

Speaker: That the idea that they would feel. (27:13):
undefined

Speaker: And I think that the idea that (27:15):
undefined

Speaker: they would feel bad would be a (27:17):
undefined

Speaker: leap. (27:18):
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Speaker: Mhm. (27:19):
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undefined

Speaker: I mean that's a solid point. (27:20):
undefined

Speaker: And I think I'm going to challenge that a little bit only (27:22):
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Speaker: because I think that you're like ninety percent right for sure. (27:25):
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Speaker: Like and I think that it is told (27:28):
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Speaker: from a very white perspective (27:30):
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Speaker: which is why it's so over the (27:32):
undefined

Speaker: top in certain scenes and (27:34):
undefined

Speaker: certain areas. (27:36):
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Speaker: Like the entire movie's over the top, let's be honest. (27:37):
undefined

Speaker: But I think that there's also kind of. (27:40):
undefined

Speaker: Like a generational thing, too. (27:42):
undefined

Speaker: I think that more modern (27:44):
undefined

Speaker: audiences are going to be (27:45):
undefined

Speaker: horrified. (27:47):
undefined

Speaker: You know, if you ask some older generations and stuff, I'm not (27:48):
undefined

Speaker: going to name anybody by name, but I know a couple people who (27:51):
undefined

Speaker: are like, there used to be a time when you could make fun of (27:54):
undefined

Speaker: other people and everybody would laugh at it. (27:57):
undefined

Speaker: Like, there used to be a time when black people could make fun (27:59):
undefined

Speaker: of white people. (28:03):
undefined

Speaker: White people can make fun of black people, Latino people can (28:04):
undefined

Speaker: make fun of black. (28:06):
undefined

Speaker: And everybody was kind of like in on the joke. (28:07):
undefined

Speaker: And they rib each other and it was fine. (28:08):
undefined

Speaker: And, um, we're all able to laugh at one another. (28:10):
undefined

Speaker: And I think that, like, (28:14):
undefined

Speaker: economics plays a little bit (28:16):
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Speaker: into it. (28:17):
undefined

Speaker: I think that if you're more affluent, you're more prone to (28:17):
undefined

Speaker: think that this is horrifying, too, because I think that humor, (28:20):
undefined

Speaker: like especially for something as silly as this, I think that, you (28:23):
undefined

Speaker: know, there are certain people, things that people care about, (28:27):
undefined

Speaker: and there's certain things that other people can't afford to (28:29):
undefined

Speaker: really care about. (28:32):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And I think that this is like (28:33):
undefined

Speaker: one of those things where if you (28:35):
undefined

Speaker: look at older generations, if (28:36):
undefined

Speaker: you look at generations that, (28:37):
undefined

Speaker: you know, aren't as up on, for (28:39):
undefined

Speaker: lack of a better term, like woke (28:41):
undefined

Speaker: culture or whatever, a lot of (28:43):
undefined

Speaker: them are gonna laugh at this (28:44):
undefined

Speaker: movie. (28:45):
undefined

Speaker: You know, and it's and they're (28:46):
undefined

Speaker: not going to think it's that big (28:49):
undefined

Speaker: a deal, especially if you zoom (28:50):
undefined

Speaker: out and look at what it's trying (28:52):
undefined

Speaker: to do. (28:53):
undefined

Speaker: Now, I don't think a lot of (28:54):
undefined

Speaker: people would admit that, but I (28:55):
undefined

Speaker: do think that those people are (28:58):
undefined

Speaker: out there. (28:59):
undefined

Speaker: But but I think that on the whole, like, you're right, like (29:00):
undefined

Speaker: I think that it is meant for a very specific type of audience (29:03):
undefined

Speaker: and how it's told from the perspective of how white people (29:06):
undefined

Speaker: think about black people and what their struggles look like. (29:10):
undefined

Speaker: And you know, what the (29:15):
undefined

Speaker: stereotypes look like and (29:17):
undefined

Speaker: everything. (29:18):
undefined

Speaker: Um, so, so, so I do think that (29:18):
undefined

Speaker: there is a lot of truth to what (29:20):
undefined

Speaker: you're saying. (29:21):
undefined

Speaker: I don't want you to think that I completely hate this movie, (29:22):
undefined

Speaker: although I do kind of. (29:25):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, she does, but I don't want to, like, I don't. (29:26):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: I really didn't want to walk into this movie and just (29:30):
undefined

Speaker: immediately hate it completely. (29:32):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So I do want to walk away with some positive things. (29:35):
undefined

Speaker: So I'm going to say this my (29:37):
undefined

Speaker: positive take this movie really (29:40):
undefined

Speaker: makes you appreciate Tropic (29:43):
undefined

Speaker: Thunder. (29:45):
undefined

Speaker: Oh my God. (29:45):
undefined

Speaker: By the way, I have in my notes I (29:46):
undefined

Speaker: said, you never, ever, ever, (29:47):
undefined

Speaker: ever, ever do blackface unless (29:49):
undefined

Speaker: you're Robert Downey Jr or (29:50):
undefined

Speaker: Tropic Thunder, in which case (29:51):
undefined

Speaker: it's hilarious. (29:53):
undefined

Speaker: I feel like Tropic Thunder the reason Tropic Thunder was made, (29:54):
undefined

Speaker: specifically Robert Downey Jr's character Tropic Thunder was (29:57):
undefined

Speaker: because of this movie. (30:00):
undefined

Speaker: Probably, yeah. (30:02):
undefined

Speaker: Because. (30:03):
undefined

Speaker: Because they knew. (30:03):
undefined

Speaker: Well, that's the thing. (30:04):
undefined

Speaker: Because they knew it was so bad. (30:05):
undefined

undefined

undefined

Speaker: They were like, let's try it out. (30:08):
undefined

Speaker: Because if there is like a movie (30:11):
undefined

Speaker: that is so over the top, it's (30:12):
undefined

Speaker: brilliant. (30:14):
undefined

Speaker: That gets away with it is Tropic Thunder because like tonally (30:14):
undefined

Speaker: it's super consistent, right? (30:18):
undefined

Speaker: Even in the, in the, in the parts of Tropic Thunder where (30:20):
undefined

Speaker: there's supposed to be like that revelation by like Ben Stiller's (30:23):
undefined

Speaker: character, he's like, I do care. (30:26):
undefined

Speaker: I remembered his name. (30:27):
undefined

Speaker: I remember, you know, like it's ridiculous. (30:28):
undefined

Speaker: It's hilarious. (30:30):
undefined

Speaker: It's not even remotely serious, right? (30:31):
undefined

Speaker: So they keep the same tone throughout the entire movie. (30:33):
undefined

Speaker: And the thing about Solomon is that it kind of doesn't do that (30:36):
undefined

Speaker: completely, which makes it tonally a little bit weird (30:40):
undefined

Speaker: sometimes, which is why it's hard to grasp on to what they're (30:43):
undefined

Speaker: trying to do some of the time. (30:46):
undefined

Speaker: That's what makes Tropic Thunder so much better movie, because it (30:47):
undefined

Speaker: does everything that Solomon failed to do. (30:51):
undefined

Speaker: Oh, don't get it twisted. (30:53):
undefined

Speaker: Tropic Thunder is a masterpiece. (30:54):
undefined

Speaker: Like like there is no competition between Solomon and (30:56):
undefined

Speaker: Tropic Thunder at all. (31:00):
undefined

Speaker: And Robert Downey Jr, like, I'm sorry, that holds up. (31:01):
undefined

Speaker: It does. (31:04):
undefined

Speaker: Like, I watched it recently, it's still totally holds up. (31:05):
undefined

Speaker: It's amazing. (31:09):
undefined

Speaker: And I do not I'm gonna defend Robert Downey Jr in blackface (31:10):
undefined

Speaker: till the day I fucking die because it was incredible. (31:14):
undefined

Speaker: It was just incredible. (31:18):
undefined

Speaker: It was so good. (31:19):
undefined

Speaker: It was like so well done. (31:19):
undefined

Speaker: And it was hilarious. (31:20):
undefined

Speaker: And they they were fully in on the joke the entire time. (31:21):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Stay tuned for our next podcast, (31:25):
undefined

Speaker: just the Tropic Thunder (31:27):
undefined

Speaker: appreciation podcast. (31:29):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Yeah, that's definitely necessary. (31:31):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, let me think. (31:34):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: I have another thing that was, um, that really bothered me in (31:35):
undefined

Speaker: this movie and which which makes it weird and which makes it (31:39):
undefined

Speaker: harder to defend. (31:43):
undefined

Speaker: And I'm not sure what to think about this scene. (31:44):
undefined

Speaker: So, you know, his friend Gordo, who is like, throughout most of (31:47):
undefined

Speaker: the movie, kind of like, I mean, he's like his guy, his best (31:50):
undefined

Speaker: friend, you know, but he's also kind of like the little guy on (31:54):
undefined

Speaker: his shoulder saying, sure, you should do that. (31:57):
undefined

Speaker: You sure you should do that? (31:58):
undefined

Speaker: Knows Mark's an idiot, but you (31:59):
undefined

Speaker: know it's still there for his (32:01):
undefined

Speaker: friend at the end when Mark is (32:02):
undefined

Speaker: kind of, like, exposed, he's (32:05):
undefined

Speaker: supposed to go in front of the (32:06):
undefined

Speaker: committee and everything, and (32:07):
undefined

Speaker: then Gordo goes up and makes (32:08):
undefined

Speaker: this big speech about why he (32:10):
undefined

Speaker: deserves leniency. (32:13):
undefined

Speaker: And it's basically like the affluenza defense. (32:15):
undefined

Speaker: And I was like, fuck that dude. (32:17):
undefined

Speaker: That bothered me. (32:19):
undefined

Speaker: That did bother me. (32:20):
undefined

Speaker: And it kind of went against what the movie was saying at the end. (32:21):
undefined

Speaker: Right? (32:25):
undefined

Speaker: Like because his friend basically says he's an idiot. (32:25):
undefined

Speaker: He grew up with wealth. (32:29):
undefined

Speaker: He didn't know any better. (32:30):
undefined

Speaker: So you should just kind of let (32:32):
undefined

Speaker: him off easy, which is not the (32:34):
undefined

Speaker: right thing that you're supposed (32:36):
undefined

Speaker: to do. (32:37):
undefined

Speaker: Like he should never have said that he. (32:37):
undefined

Speaker: That speech should have ended after two sentences. (32:39):
undefined

Speaker: And it's like, yeah, he knew he did something wrong. (32:41):
undefined

Speaker: He deserves to be punished for it. (32:43):
undefined

Speaker: And that's it. (32:44):
undefined

Speaker: That's done. (32:44):
undefined

Speaker: It's done. (32:45):
undefined

Speaker: But he didn't do that. (32:47):
undefined

Speaker: He went further and was just trying to rationalize why he's (32:48):
undefined

Speaker: not that bad. (32:52):
undefined

Speaker: And that to me is the biggest crime in the movie, is him (32:53):
undefined

Speaker: trying to rationalize what he did because he's too wealthy and (33:00):
undefined

Speaker: stupid to know better. (33:03):
undefined

Speaker: I don't see how either of these guys got into Harvard. (33:05):
undefined

Speaker: I just it just doesn't make no sense. (33:08):
undefined

Speaker: He's an idiot. (33:11):
undefined

Speaker: Like. (33:11):
undefined

Speaker: And that's the thing too, is, like, I don't think that they (33:12):
undefined

Speaker: want us to like Mark at all in the movie in the beginning. (33:15):
undefined

Speaker: Like, he's not likable at all. (33:19):
undefined

Speaker: He's an absolute jackass. (33:20):
undefined

Speaker: And his friend. (33:22):
undefined

Speaker: Slightly more redeeming, I guess, because he just didn't (33:24):
undefined

Speaker: have to use blackface. (33:27):
undefined

Speaker: I don't know, but he's not a good guy. (33:28):
undefined

Speaker: He's not that smart. (33:31):
undefined

Speaker: He's a goof off in class. (33:32):
undefined

Speaker: Like, why would you go into your Harvard Law School class and, (33:35):
undefined

Speaker: like, goof off in front of a professor that looks like James (33:38):
undefined

Speaker: Earl Jones is beyond me. (33:41):
undefined

Speaker: And he makes a series of stupid assumptions on his own (33:43):
undefined

Speaker: throughout the film, too. (33:46):
undefined

Speaker: It's not he's not some innocent in this at all. (33:47):
undefined

Speaker: And I don't think that they're (33:50):
undefined

Speaker: trying to convince us that he (33:51):
undefined

Speaker: is. (33:52):
undefined

Speaker: And I think that we start to see the turn when he starts to fall (33:53):
undefined

Speaker: for Radon Chong's character. (33:55):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And we're supposed to be a (33:57):
undefined

Speaker: little bit sympathetic to that (33:58):
undefined

Speaker: because we got a montage after (34:00):
undefined

Speaker: all. (34:02):
undefined

Speaker: And that's what they wanted us to think. (34:02):
undefined

Speaker: So, yeah, I don't know how they got into Harvard. (34:04):
undefined

Speaker: I don't like the movie itself the way that it paints. (34:07):
undefined

Speaker: Marc. (34:11):
undefined

Speaker: I think by the end I'm a little bit, you know, do I think he got (34:12):
undefined

Speaker: the right punishment? (34:17):
undefined

Speaker: Probably not. (34:18):
undefined

Speaker: He probably got off a little bit too easy. (34:20):
undefined

Speaker: But I appreciated the message at the very end. (34:21):
undefined

Speaker: Which is why it's weird Because when Gordo was making his (34:25):
undefined

Speaker: speech, it kind of flies in the face of the lesson it's trying (34:28):
undefined

Speaker: to teach us. (34:31):
undefined

Speaker: I feel like. (34:32):
undefined

Speaker: All right, so you're going to go into the speech, which I think (34:33):
undefined

Speaker: you make a very excellent point, and then I'm going to destroy (34:36):
undefined

Speaker: your point with a stupid remark at the end. (34:39):
undefined

Speaker: So I want you to make your very heartfelt plea about why this (34:43):
undefined

Speaker: movie has redeeming quality, because it's very well done. (34:47):
undefined

Speaker: And then I'm going to make. (34:50):
undefined

Speaker: Wait, are we done with. (34:51):
undefined

Speaker: Are we done talking about the Criming? (34:52):
undefined

Speaker: Are we done? (34:53):
undefined

Speaker: Uh, we forgot the, uh, one last (34:54):
undefined

Speaker: impression, which is the Stevie (34:57):
undefined

Speaker: Wonder impression. (34:58):
undefined

Speaker: That is a crime, by the way. (34:59):
undefined

Speaker: Which is very much a crime. (35:00):
undefined

Speaker: I listed it under impersonating having a disability. (35:02):
undefined

Speaker: But it's way worse than that (35:05):
undefined

Speaker: because it's just a bad Stevie (35:06):
undefined

Speaker: Wonder. (35:08):
undefined

Speaker: It's just a bad Stevie Wonder impression that I feel like no (35:08):
undefined

Speaker: one is going to get now. (35:12):
undefined

Speaker: And because, like, Stevie's been out of the public eye for so (35:13):
undefined

Speaker: long, then no one's going to understand that reference. (35:17):
undefined

Speaker: And he was just not even doing a Stevie Wonder impression. (35:20):
undefined

Speaker: He was doing an impression of (35:23):
undefined

Speaker: Eddie Murphy doing a Stevie (35:24):
undefined

Speaker: Wonder impression. (35:27):
undefined

Speaker: Was he because Eddie Murphy was pretty good doing a Stevie (35:28):
undefined

Speaker: Wonder impression like. (35:30):
undefined

Speaker: I did not catch any Eddie Murphy in that impersonation. (35:31):
undefined

Speaker: It was just like it was a weird, awkward, not good, unnecessary (35:33):
undefined

Speaker: Stevie Wonder impersonation. (35:40):
undefined

Speaker: I just saw it as like a bad SNL impression. (35:42):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, it was an impression of an impression. (35:45):
undefined

Speaker: It was just, uh. (35:47):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, it was just, uh. (35:49):
undefined

Speaker: Everything. (35:50):
undefined

undefined
undefined

undefined
undefined

Speaker: You know that that was a crime. (35:53):
undefined

Speaker: It was pretty bad. (35:55):
undefined

Speaker: Um, so do we want to go to, uh, Chuck or cherish? (35:55):
undefined

Speaker: She's just looking at my face in abject horror. (36:01):
undefined

Speaker: No. I'm not. (36:04):
undefined

Speaker: I'm wearing a face of abject horror. (36:06):
undefined

Speaker: She is. (36:08):
undefined

Speaker: And she's like. (36:09):
undefined

Speaker: She's like, don't make me talk about this film anymore. (36:10):
undefined

Speaker: It's nothing to cherish. (36:12):
undefined

Speaker: But go ahead. (36:13):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Go ahead. (36:14):
undefined

undefined
undefined
undefined

Speaker: Here, here. (36:16):
undefined

Speaker: I'm not gonna I'm not I'm not making a verdict completely on (36:16):
undefined

Speaker: the Chuck or cherish angle, but here's here's what I will say. (36:20):
undefined

Speaker: The movie. (36:24):
undefined

Speaker: If you zoom out and look at what it's trying to say, now, you (36:25):
undefined

Speaker: have to put aside the fact that it's a movie with a man whose (36:30):
undefined

Speaker: main character is entirely in blackface, like the entire time, (36:33):
undefined

Speaker: or ninety percent of the time. (36:36):
undefined

Speaker: And that is its biggest crime, right? (36:38):
undefined

Speaker: You just don't do it. (36:42):
undefined

Speaker: And you definitely don't have. (36:44):
undefined

Speaker: See, Thomas, I'll do it. (36:45):
undefined

Speaker: But when you look at it, it's not against affirmative action. (36:47):
undefined

Speaker: It's not making that argument. (36:51):
undefined

Speaker: A lot of people think that this (36:53):
undefined

Speaker: movie is against affirmative (36:54):
undefined

Speaker: action. (36:55):
undefined

Speaker: It's not. (36:55):
undefined

Speaker: Mark is not meant to be likable, I don't think. (36:56):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, I certainly didn't like him, which made, I think, like, (36:59):
undefined

Speaker: the ending work a little bit better for me. (37:01):
undefined

Speaker: I think it is meant to be a satire, which is why it's so (37:03):
undefined

Speaker: over the top in so many places. (37:07):
undefined

Speaker: I think it's trying to beat you over the head with a point. (37:09):
undefined

Speaker: I think, like the most annoying part of it was the two guys (37:11):
undefined

Speaker: making the jokes. (37:13):
undefined

Speaker: I'm like, do you just walk around making black people jokes (37:14):
undefined

Speaker: all day long? (37:16):
undefined

Speaker: Like, how does he keep on (37:16):
undefined

Speaker: catching you, making black (37:17):
undefined

Speaker: people? (37:18):
undefined

Speaker: Like, do you have no other topics of conversation? (37:18):
undefined

Speaker: Like, that thing was like a (37:21):
undefined

Speaker: little bit too on the nose for (37:22):
undefined

Speaker: me. (37:23):
undefined

Speaker: I did need all of that. (37:24):
undefined

Speaker: But you know, Melora Hardin's character is trying to say (37:25):
undefined

Speaker: something about white women fetishizing black people. (37:28):
undefined

Speaker: Leslie Nielsen's character is (37:30):
undefined

Speaker: trying to say that there are (37:31):
undefined

Speaker: white people in power who are (37:33):
undefined

Speaker: like landowners and can evict (37:34):
undefined

Speaker: people for, you know, for racist (37:36):
undefined

Speaker: reasons. (37:37):
undefined

Speaker: There are, you know, you have, like James Earl Jones character (37:37):
undefined

Speaker: who's like, I'm not going to give you like special treatment (37:41):
undefined

Speaker: just because, like, you're a black man, like it's trying to (37:44):
undefined

Speaker: make so many points through its characters that I think that if (37:46):
undefined

Speaker: you look at the theme around them, like they're very true. (37:50):
undefined

Speaker: And I think at the end, like when Mark gets exposed, people (37:53):
undefined

Speaker: realize what he's done. (37:58):
undefined

Speaker: He goes into James Earl Jones office and this is after, like, (37:59):
undefined

Speaker: the affluenza speech, which I still hate, which is why it's so (38:01):
undefined

Speaker: weird to like. (38:04):
undefined

Speaker: But that scene up against this one. (38:05):
undefined

Speaker: But he goes into the office and (38:07):
undefined

Speaker: he says all these things that (38:10):
undefined

Speaker: he's going to do to make right (38:11):
undefined

Speaker: by what he did, which is like, (38:13):
undefined

Speaker: you know, he's going to have a (38:14):
undefined

Speaker: scholarship in the name of (38:17):
undefined

Speaker: Sarah's character. (38:19):
undefined

Speaker: He's going to work in (38:20):
undefined

Speaker: communities to help black (38:22):
undefined

Speaker: people. (38:23):
undefined

Speaker: He's going to do that like he looks like five different things (38:23):
undefined

Speaker: that he's going to do. (38:25):
undefined

Speaker: And James Earl Jones looks at him very proudly and says, wow, (38:26):
undefined

Speaker: you finally understand what it's like to be black. (38:29):
undefined

Speaker: And this is the most important part of the movie to me. (38:31):
undefined

Speaker: And he says, like Saint Thomas (38:33):
undefined

Speaker: Howell's character that is, (38:35):
undefined

Speaker: says, no, I don't, because I (38:36):
undefined

Speaker: knew I could get out of it at (38:38):
undefined

Speaker: any time. (38:39):
undefined

Speaker: And I think that's was the point, because, Mark, this (38:40):
undefined

Speaker: entire time he's thinking, he's acting like a black person. (38:43):
undefined

Speaker: He's living the life as a black person where he really isn't (38:45):
undefined

Speaker: because he had an escape route. (38:48):
undefined

Speaker: And the fact that was the part that sealed it for me was like, (38:50):
undefined

Speaker: okay, I think I understand what this movie was trying to do and (38:56):
undefined

Speaker: made it more forgivable for me. (38:59):
undefined

Speaker: Despite having an entire movie (39:02):
undefined

Speaker: where the main characters in (39:04):
undefined

Speaker: Black Face. (39:05):
undefined

Speaker: I think that if you look at it like in that sense of that was (39:06):
undefined

Speaker: like the ultimate lesson that he had to learn, that he really (39:10):
undefined

Speaker: doesn't know what it's like, but he still owes something back. (39:13):
undefined

Speaker: That I think is important. (39:17):
undefined

Speaker: And I think that's an important distinction. (39:18):
undefined

Speaker: And looking at the movie and deciding whether or not it's (39:20):
undefined

Speaker: worthy of, you know, the criticism that it's gotten and (39:24):
undefined

Speaker: it's worthy of a lot of the criticism that it's gotten. (39:28):
undefined

Speaker: But, you know, I'm trying to give it a little bit of grace (39:30):
undefined

Speaker: just because of of that. (39:33):
undefined

Speaker: I respect your opinion. (39:36):
undefined

Speaker: I hear you. (39:39):
undefined

Speaker: I'm trying real hard here. (39:40):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: I see you, and there's space for you in my heart. (39:42):
undefined

Speaker: I feel that it is a good speech at the end, but it is completely (39:47):
undefined

Speaker: negated by eighty minutes of movie before that. (39:52):
undefined

Speaker: And the reason is, is because there was no other thought put (39:55):
undefined

Speaker: into this character other than the fact that it was the color (39:59):
undefined

Speaker: of his skin that changed. (40:02):
undefined

Speaker: He didn't put any thought into his background. (40:03):
undefined

Speaker: He didn't put any thought into (40:06):
undefined

Speaker: the character that he was trying (40:07):
undefined

Speaker: to create, or any thought into (40:08):
undefined

Speaker: his clothing or any thought, and (40:11):
undefined

Speaker: he didn't do any research into (40:13):
undefined

Speaker: the character. (40:14):
undefined

Speaker: He didn't do any. (40:15):
undefined

Speaker: There was no thought. (40:17):
undefined

Speaker: But that's put into this about his character. (40:18):
undefined

Speaker: He's an idiot. (40:20):
undefined

Speaker: He's stupid. (40:21):
undefined

Speaker: And then everybody else is an idiot. (40:22):
undefined

Speaker: And the whole movie is just a (40:24):
undefined

Speaker: horrendous stereotype, followed (40:28):
undefined

Speaker: by stereotype, followed by (40:31):
undefined

Speaker: stereotype with very few (40:32):
undefined

Speaker: redeeming qualities that when (40:35):
undefined

Speaker: you take it as a whole, it's (40:38):
undefined

Speaker: very difficult that it can be (40:40):
undefined

Speaker: redeemed. (40:41):
undefined

Speaker: And the problem I have with it is not just the eighty minutes (40:42):
undefined

Speaker: that comes before it, but that at the end, the final (40:45):
undefined

Speaker: conversation that he has with Ray, where the word interracial (40:49):
undefined

Speaker: relationship is said like a dozen times, to the point where (40:54):
undefined

Speaker: my left eye started to twitch like it sounded like she he was (40:58):
undefined

Speaker: fetishizing her at that point. (41:02):
undefined

Speaker: Because why would you mention it so many times? (41:06):
undefined

Speaker: Like it's obvious. (41:09):
undefined

Speaker: Like that's that point doesn't need to be mentioned anymore. (41:10):
undefined

Speaker: That was the point of it. (41:13):
undefined

Speaker: Like, they were already a goofy looking couple, even when he was (41:15):
undefined

Speaker: pretending to be black. (41:18):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, that was weird because she was clearly out of his league. (41:20):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, now she's still clearly out of his league. (41:25):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, he's just a goofy looking white guy. (41:28):
undefined

Speaker: It doesn't matter if they're an interracial couple. (41:32):
undefined

Speaker: He doesn't need to keep bringing it up. (41:34):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, but this was the eighties, (41:36):
undefined

Speaker: and that was a much bigger deal (41:39):
undefined

Speaker: back then. (41:40):
undefined

Speaker: It's a much less big deal now than it was back then. (41:41):
undefined

Speaker: And people don't talk about. (41:44):
undefined

Speaker: What do you think about interracial relationships? (41:45):
undefined

Speaker: Nobody talks about it that way. (41:47):
undefined

Speaker: But back then you have to imagine, like those people had (41:48):
undefined

Speaker: parents that like, grew up in the sixties, right. (41:51):
undefined

Speaker: And, and and that was a very different time where there were (41:54):
undefined

Speaker: like a lot of racial tensions. (41:58):
undefined

Speaker: And depending on where you grew up, you probably had a very (42:00):
undefined

Speaker: specific idea of what black people were like. (42:03):
undefined

Speaker: You know, black people used to (42:07):
undefined

Speaker: get asked, like if they grew (42:08):
undefined

Speaker: tails in the middle of the (42:10):
undefined

Speaker: night. (42:10):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, I'm going to handle this with kid gloves because this is (42:12):
undefined

Speaker: clearly not my wheelhouse. (42:15):
undefined

Speaker: And there's no way I can add to this discussion. (42:16):
undefined

Speaker: All I can tell you is that that ending dialogue was not handled (42:18):
undefined

Speaker: well and was written badly. (42:23):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It just kind of threw out (42:26):
undefined

Speaker: everything that he learned in a (42:27):
undefined

Speaker: way. (42:29):
undefined

Speaker: Sure. (42:29):
undefined

Speaker: So it just didn't seem correct. (42:30):
undefined

Speaker: It just seemed like, well, you learned nothing. (42:33):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: You know, like, I think that also at the same time, it's (42:36):
undefined

Speaker: like, impossible to almost do any scene like that, right? (42:38):
undefined

Speaker: It's like it's just so, like with, like, movie storytelling (42:42):
undefined

Speaker: formats and everything. (42:45):
undefined

Speaker: It's like, how do you do that in the right way? (42:46):
undefined

Speaker: Especially like in the eighties (42:48):
undefined

Speaker: when people are still trying to (42:49):
undefined

Speaker: figure shit out about race and (42:50):
undefined

Speaker: everything, like when people (42:53):
undefined

Speaker: there's still like a lot of I (42:54):
undefined

Speaker: mean, there's still a lot of (42:55):
undefined

Speaker: ignorance now, but even back (42:56):
undefined

Speaker: then, like and like, look, I'm (42:57):
undefined

Speaker: playing super devil's advocate (43:00):
undefined

Speaker: right now. (43:02):
undefined

Speaker: I'm playing devil's advocate (43:02):
undefined

Speaker: right now because I am trying to (43:03):
undefined

Speaker: find the redeeming qualities in (43:05):
undefined

Speaker: the movie. (43:08):
undefined

Speaker: Um, and I did find some, I did (43:09):
undefined

Speaker: find some, but I did have to go (43:11):
undefined

Speaker: through the exercise of, like, (43:12):
undefined

Speaker: deprogramming before I watched (43:13):
undefined

undefined

undefined

Speaker: And and so everything you're saying is dead on. (43:15):
undefined

Speaker: And by the way, despite what I (43:19):
undefined

Speaker: am saying right now, I think (43:21):
undefined

Speaker: that anybody who completely (43:23):
undefined

Speaker: writes this movie off is (43:25):
undefined

Speaker: completely validated in doing (43:27):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Like, I am not gonna tell you you're wrong about that, but and (43:30):
undefined

Speaker: it was kind of like an academic exercise to look at it and say, (43:36):
undefined

Speaker: like, I'm gonna try and find some good stuff here. (43:39):
undefined

Speaker: And I did find some things that (43:42):
undefined

Speaker: I was amused by that I found (43:44):
undefined

Speaker: charming and given when it was (43:46):
undefined

Speaker: made. (43:50):
undefined

Speaker: I want to try to appreciate the message from the end of the (43:50):
undefined

Speaker: movie, because he really did screw her over. (43:55):
undefined

undefined

undefined

Speaker: And then, like, if the movie (43:59):
undefined

Speaker: just ended with like, hey, man, (44:01):
undefined

Speaker: you took funding I really needed (44:03):
undefined

Speaker: and now I don't have enough time (44:07):
undefined

Speaker: to study. (44:08):
undefined

Speaker: And I'm doing bad in work (44:09):
undefined

Speaker: because in school, because I (44:10):
undefined

Speaker: have to take this really shitty (44:11):
undefined

Speaker: job and I have enough time for (44:12):
undefined

Speaker: both school and my son and (44:14):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It threw everything off for me (44:16):
undefined

Speaker: because I was depending on this (44:18):
undefined

Speaker: money. (44:20):
undefined

Speaker: And on top of that, you lied to me. (44:21):
undefined

Speaker: And I'm not really comfortable dating you because I feel like (44:24):
undefined

Speaker: we don't have enough in common because of our backgrounds. (44:27):
undefined

Speaker: Well, that's another kind of. (44:30):
undefined

Speaker: It's a movie crime, not an actual crime. (44:31):
undefined

Speaker: It's like what they do with women in, like, these romantic, (44:33):
undefined

Speaker: um, situations, right? (44:36):
undefined

Speaker: Where the guy winds up being like an enormous walking red (44:38):
undefined

Speaker: flag and she's like, whatever, you're cute, you know? (44:41):
undefined

Speaker: And then they just walk off into (44:44):
undefined

Speaker: the sunset and everything's (44:45):
undefined

Speaker: fine. (44:46):
undefined

Speaker: And he's not that cute. (44:46):
undefined

Speaker: And she's. (44:47):
undefined

Speaker: See, Thomas sounds kind of cute, but like Rae Dawn Chong, it's (44:48):
undefined

Speaker: like her character. (44:51):
undefined

Speaker: They she was great. (44:52):
undefined

Speaker: I love her in this movie, by the way. (44:53):
undefined

Speaker: She's really good in it. (44:54):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, she's great and she's she's the best part. (44:55):
undefined

Speaker: She is, she's she's so good. (44:58):
undefined

Speaker: But I like the way that they (44:59):
undefined

Speaker: shaped her character in the (45:00):
undefined

Speaker: beginning. (45:01):
undefined

Speaker: She's like very serious about her studies. (45:02):
undefined

Speaker: Like she's no bullshit. (45:03):
undefined

Speaker: You know, she's not mean, but she's just like, I don't have (45:05):
undefined

Speaker: time for you right now. (45:07):
undefined

Speaker: And, like, this goofy, whatever you're doing. (45:08):
undefined

Speaker: Like, she rejects idiot Mark completely. (45:10):
undefined

Speaker: And that is the character that I liked. (45:13):
undefined

Speaker: And at the end she's just like, whatever, I don't care that you (45:15):
undefined

Speaker: pretend you were black and stole all the money that was meant for (45:17):
undefined

Speaker: my education, you know? (45:19):
undefined

Speaker: Like, I like that. (45:21):
undefined

Speaker: That is something that happened throughout. (45:22):
undefined

Speaker: Still kind of happens now, but like happened a lot in movies (45:25):
undefined

Speaker: from the eighties. (45:28):
undefined

Speaker: She's the only one that didn't jump on the Trope Boat early on (45:29):
undefined

Speaker: in the film, because he had. (45:32):
undefined

Speaker: Julia Louis-Dreyfus is like the flighty preppy with, like, her (45:33):
undefined

Speaker: flighty, preppy boyfriend. (45:38):
undefined

Speaker: And then you had, like, the party guy, like, everybody was (45:41):
undefined

Speaker: living like a stereotype. (45:45):
undefined

Speaker: And she wasn't that until the very, very end when she was just (45:47):
undefined

Speaker: like, well, let's give it a try. (45:51):
undefined

Speaker: Even though you were this walking massive. (45:53):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: She's like the straight man. (45:56):
undefined

Speaker: She's like the most reliable character that we have. (45:56):
undefined

Speaker: It's like we trust her to take us through this. (45:58):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: And she like and at the end it (46:00):
undefined

Speaker: kind of falls apart just (46:02):
undefined

Speaker: because. (46:03):
undefined

Speaker: Why the fuck would you take this guy back? (46:05):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, sure, he shows, like, a (46:07):
undefined

Speaker: little bit of remorse and (46:09):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: It's like he would have had to prove a lot more. (46:10):
undefined

Speaker: It's like, how about let's be (46:13):
undefined

Speaker: friends first and see how this (46:14):
undefined

Speaker: goes. (46:15):
undefined

Speaker: And then we can have a conversation instead of, you (46:15):
undefined

Speaker: know, just being like, whatever. (46:18):
undefined

Speaker: It's fine. (46:19):
undefined

Speaker: Like, know nothing about what he did was fine. (46:20):
undefined

Speaker: Nothing that is, like, psychotic what he did. (46:23):
undefined

Speaker: So yeah, I don't I don't like that part of it either. (46:25):
undefined

Speaker: I'm just like her character was too smart. (46:27):
undefined

Speaker: Like they she played it too well in the beginning for her to (46:29):
undefined

Speaker: realistically make this decision at the end. (46:32):
undefined

Speaker: So she's in Harvard. (46:35):
undefined

Speaker: She should know better, she should know better, and she's. (46:36):
undefined

Speaker: She's smarter than this. (46:39):
undefined

Speaker: We know this. (46:40):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So final final. (46:42):
undefined

Speaker: I don't know if I want to talk about Chuck or cherishing it (46:44):
undefined

Speaker: after I attempted to give a full throated defense of it, but, um. (46:47):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Chuck or cherish. (46:52):
undefined

Speaker: I'm gonna chuck it. (46:54):
undefined

Speaker: I'm gonna pad my little Chuck with, like, a fun little fact. (46:55):
undefined

Speaker: Here's a fun little fact, okay? (46:58):
undefined

Speaker: Tim Robbins was supposed to star in it, but he decided not to so (47:00):
undefined

Speaker: he can star in, um, Howard the Duck, you know? (47:04):
undefined

Speaker: Do you know who else was who's considered for the role? (47:07):
undefined

Speaker: Mm. (47:10):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Get ready. (47:11):
undefined

Speaker: Buckle up. (47:12):
undefined

Speaker: Buttercup. (47:13):
undefined

Speaker: Anthony. (47:15):
undefined

Speaker: Michael. (47:16):
undefined

Speaker: Hall. (47:16):
undefined

Speaker: Anthony Edwards, Val Kilmer, and John Cusack. (47:17):
undefined

Speaker: Chew on that one for a little bit, will ya? (47:23):
undefined

Speaker: That would have been. (47:26):
undefined

Speaker: That would have. (47:27):
undefined

Speaker: Like, can you imagine? (47:27):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, Val Kilmer in the eighties doing blackface. (47:28):
undefined

Speaker: What? (47:33):
undefined

Speaker: This came out in eighty six. (47:34):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: So this is like Top Gun around Top Gun. (47:36):
undefined

Speaker: I mean, he chose wisely. (47:38):
undefined

Speaker: Chose Iceman. (47:39):
undefined

Speaker: Everybody in that list chose wisely. (47:39):
undefined

Speaker: Yes, except for Tim Robbins. (47:42):
undefined

Speaker: Well, I still think Tim Robbins chose wisely, comparatively. (47:43):
undefined

Speaker: I don't want to talk to you anymore. (47:46):
undefined

Speaker: So you can't trust the thing Erin says. (47:47):
undefined

Speaker: No. Compared to this movie, to Howard the Duck. (47:49):
undefined

Speaker: Wait until you hear the revenge of the nerds episode. (47:52):
undefined

Speaker: She watched all four movies. (47:56):
undefined

Speaker: Listen willingly. (47:59):
undefined

Speaker: I'm not saying Howard the Duck is good. (48:01):
undefined

Speaker: I'm saying Howard the Duck is better than this. (48:03):
undefined

Speaker: When choosing between two evils, you go with the lesser evil. (48:07):
undefined

Speaker: I guess that's fair. (48:11):
undefined

Speaker: That's fair. (48:12):
undefined

Speaker: Spare my. (48:13):
undefined

Speaker: You know. (48:14):
undefined

Speaker: Okay, here's what I'm going to be subversive. (48:14):
undefined

Speaker: I'm going to be subversive here. (48:16):
undefined

Speaker: And I'm going to say cherish (48:18):
undefined

Speaker: only but the asterisk with an (48:19):
undefined

Speaker: asterisk. (48:21):
undefined

Speaker: And it's only so that you can watch it and form your own (48:22):
undefined

Speaker: opinion about it. (48:24):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: I would say watch it as a time (48:26):
undefined

Speaker: capsule of some stupid shit that (48:28):
undefined

Speaker: people made in the eighties, and (48:30):
undefined

Speaker: make your own assessment about (48:33):
undefined

Speaker: what you take away from it and (48:35):
undefined

Speaker: and have a conversation about (48:37):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: That is an excellent, excellent point. (48:38):
undefined

Speaker: That is an excellent point. (48:41):
undefined

Speaker: I do enjoy watching things that (48:42):
undefined

Speaker: are either banned or considered (48:45):
undefined

Speaker: terrible, because I do feel that (48:48):
undefined

Speaker: it encapsulates a specific time (48:50):
undefined

Speaker: period. (48:52):
undefined

Speaker: Um, keep in mind that when this was made in release, it was (48:53):
undefined

Speaker: still considered, it was still considered very controversial, (48:57):
undefined

Speaker: and it still got made and it still made money. (48:59):
undefined

Speaker: Like, I think they made back all their money. (49:03):
undefined

Speaker: Like it. (49:04):
undefined

Speaker: Like I think it made thirty, (49:05):
undefined

Speaker: forty million dollars, which at (49:08):
undefined

Speaker: the time was like a lot because (49:09):
undefined

Speaker: I think their budget was like (49:10):
undefined

Speaker: four million or something like (49:11):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: But so? (49:13):
undefined

Speaker: So they made all their money back. (49:13):
undefined

Speaker: Um, but but yeah, it's it's a (49:14):
undefined

Speaker: movie to examine how, I guess, (49:17):
undefined

Speaker: like how satire can go wrong, (49:22):
undefined

Speaker: especially when blackface is (49:24):
undefined

Speaker: involved. (49:25):
undefined

Speaker: But, but but also, I would urge (49:27):
undefined

Speaker: you to try and find something (49:30):
undefined

Speaker: redeeming. (49:33):
undefined

Speaker: And I found a little bit of stuff in there, and so I'm, I'm (49:34):
undefined

Speaker: gonna say watch it and make up your own mind. (49:37):
undefined

Speaker: It makes Robert Downey Jr's performance that much better. (49:40):
undefined

Speaker: It does. (49:43):
undefined

Speaker: By the way, it really does. (49:44):
undefined

Speaker: That's my take Robert Downey Jr. Okay. (49:46):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah, we gotta do Tropic Thunder. (49:47):
undefined

Speaker: So I mean like that's. (49:49):
undefined

Speaker: Yeah I need to watch that one again. (49:50):
undefined

Speaker: It was just a brilliant, brilliant movie. (49:51):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Do we have any more bonus batter? (49:54):
undefined

Speaker: Do we have anything? (49:56):
undefined

Speaker: Well, we know that C Thomas (49:57):
undefined

Speaker: Howell Rae Dawn Chong got (49:58):
undefined

Speaker: married. (49:59):
undefined

Speaker: Yes, yes. (50:00):
undefined

Speaker: So they both are into interracial relationships. (50:01):
undefined

Speaker: All right, let's end on that one. (50:04):
undefined

Speaker: Sorry, I didn't mean to bring that one back for you. (50:09):
undefined

Speaker: Aaron doesn't even want to talk to me anymore. (50:13):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: Um, do you have do you have anything else you want to say (50:15):
undefined

Speaker: about this film? (50:17):
undefined

Speaker: No. Not much. (50:19):
undefined

Speaker: Not much. (50:20):
undefined

Speaker: I'm just going to take a shame shower later on. (50:21):
undefined

Speaker: I know, I think that I think that we're both soiled. (50:24):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: At the end of this conversation, I know that I need to wash (50:27):
undefined

Speaker: something off myself, so. (50:29):
undefined

Speaker: Um. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. (50:31):
undefined

Speaker: It's been a pleasure. (50:33):
undefined

Speaker: Go watch Soul Man. (50:34):
undefined

Speaker: Probably the last movie to be made with unironic blackface. (50:35):
undefined

Speaker: Watch it on VHS the way God meant for it to be watched. (50:40):
undefined

Speaker: All grainy and weird. (50:43):
undefined

undefined

Speaker: All right, have a good one, folks. (50:45):
undefined

Speaker: Bye bye. (50:47):
undefined

Speaker: Cinematic. (50:48):
undefined

Speaker: Problematic. (50:50):
undefined

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Episode Transcript

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal

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Soul Man: Blackface, Blackface, Satire, Blackface, Blackface

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