May 2, 2025 • 29 mins
In this week's episode, the Bald Brothers discuss the topic "Is there a God?" We explore this topic with a discussion on the agnostic view of God. This episode features a clip from world renowned astrophysicist, Neil deGasse Tyson explaining his views on the existence of God. The Bald Bros discuss the differences between the agnostic and the pantheist point of view.
This episode ends with the story of James and how he learned to deal with his paralysis as a result of a car accident.
Join us in our next episode as we delve deeper into the question of "Is there a God?" from an atheist perspective.
Please send your questions or stories of survival to cirquedusoul444@gmail.com.
Help us to help others. Support our podcast and invest in someone's life. Send your support via CashApp to $cirquedusoul444.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Yeah, that's mind, body, soul.
We connected with the globe.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soultook some discipline, repetition
and some self-control.
We connected with the globe.
Said that's mind, body, soul.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's mind, body, soul.
Hey.
Yeah.
That's Mind, body, soul tooksome discipline, repetition and
some self-control.
Triple lies be the tribe yetthat's Mindbody Soul.
(00:28):
Welcome to CIR to Soul, the onlyuncut, unedited podcast that is
dedicated to helping you to findspiritual peace in your life.
Kim, you with me today?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Today, this is the first episodein our four-part series of Is
There A God?
Wow.
Okay.
There's no doubt that peoplefrom around the world believe in
(00:51):
God's existence.
Is this existence based onbelief or hard evidence?
So for the next few weeks, we'lltake a look at the evidence for
and against the exist existenceof God and see what conclusions
that we can come up with.
This is gonna be a fun and, uh,fascinating topic.
Gary, I think you, you'reabsolutely right.
(01:12):
Before we go too deep though,let's try to understand the
different ways that peoplebelieve or don't believe.
So, nothing is ever black andwhite.
It's not as simple as saying, Ibelieve or I don't believe in
God.
Right.
So, okay.
So I'm guessing that you have,something for us to start from,
that I do.
(01:33):
This is, this is where I like tostart.
Okay.
Uh, okay.
First, there are a number ofdifferent ways that people
believe around, uh, this, thisidea of whether there's a God or
not.
So I want to go through, acouple of those and, and give a
quick definition of those.
All right.
(01:53):
Okay.
Just a real quick definition.
So, okay.
The first one is a pagan.
Do you, do you know what a Paganis?
Yes, I do.
Okay.
Yes.
A pagan, that's someone thatdoesn't, uh, this has no
religious beliefs at all.
None.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
And then we have the atheist,and I think this is the one.
(02:14):
Everyone always thinks, this isthe, this is the difference
between a Christian and, uh, uh,nonbeliever.
It's a atheist, but they're justone of a group of people that
don't believe.
Okay?
And then we have an agnostic,and that's a person who believes
that nothing is known or can beknown of the existence of God or
(02:35):
of anything beyond materialphenomena.
That's a person who claimsneither faith nor belief in God.
Okay.
Then there's the deist.
That's someone who believes in aGod or a supreme being who
creates the universe, but hasno, uh, doesn't intervene or has
no affairs in human life.
(02:57):
And then finally we have the,the pantheist.
And that's someone who believesthat the universe, nature and
reality, they're all identicalto the, to divinity, are a
superior entity.
Meaning that everything is partof a single, all encompassing
deity rather than a separatecreator.
Now that's just five differentdefinitions, and you've heard
(03:20):
these, so do you identify withany of those definitions and,
and if so, why?
Hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
Probably the pantheist, simplybecause of, uh, just been
reading and.
Reading about spirituality and,how we get to a certain level.
(03:42):
But I must admit though, that,uh, growing up in the church and
just my beliefs as a child,always when I pray, I, I can't
help but just imagine the man indisguise that I'm praying to.
Right?
Right.
So, I mean, it just comes from,childhood beliefs and going into
church, which is nothing wrongwith that at all.
I, I think, uh.
(04:04):
People pray to God the way, theway they seem fit for
themselves.
But I think I identify as apantheist, as, uh, we're all
one.
And um, we we're one part ofGod's spirit.
So that's what I believe in.
What about you?
Do you believe in any of these?
Well, you know what, I guessbecause we were raised alike, I
(04:27):
mean, we were both in thechurch.
I would have to say that I thinkof myself as a pantheist also.
Excuse me, but I do believe thatwe can have a relationship with
the Supreme being our God.
I've had some personalexperiences that sort of
validated and reinforce mybelief in God, uh, that a God
(04:50):
that does answer prayers and, isactive in our lives now.
Mm-hmm.
Now, some of these things willcome out in later brought, uh,
later broadcasts.
These experiences that I've hadand that you've had.
I also believe that we must, uh,seek to search for and try to
achieve a higher version of ourlives.
We have to become more likeJesus or Buddha so that we can
(05:13):
be closer to God.
Now, I don't want to get intothe differences between rest and
religions and Easternphilosophies and today's
discussion, but we will divedeeper into those differences
and the foundations, at a laterdate.
Oh, okay.
That sounds good.
I, I, I agree with you aboutthe, uh, trying to get to that
(05:34):
higher version of ourselves, getto that, that God level,
because, as a pantheist we dobelieve that we're one with God,
or can be one with God.
Yes.
So the, uh, as you evolve, youget to that point.
So, yeah, I, I, I do believe intrying to, raise your higher
level up and try to get to thatpoint of godhood like Jesus and
Buddha.
Great.
Yeah.
(05:54):
So, what I'd like to do, overthe next few weeks is to take a
deeper dive into each of thesedifferent beliefs are
non-belief, and try tounderstand their thinking.
And hopefully, hopefully thiswill help others to understand
their own personal beliefs oreven change their ideas about
what they believe.
Yeah.
(06:14):
Yeah, that's great.
Um, you know, that's what thispodcast is all about.
It's about opening our thinkingand helping us to grow.
Helping us to evolve.
So, um, so what are you thinkingthen, Gary?
I found, uh, one of these to bea little interesting because
there's a guy that, uh, I followand he's an agnostic.
(06:34):
So let's start with agnosticstoday.
And the guy that I follow, hisname is, uh, Neil Digress.
Tyson, you've probably heard ofhim.
I have, yeah.
Uh, for those who don't knowhim, he's an astrophysicist, a
science communicator, and he'san author.
I call him the new StephenHawking.
He's a very smart person.
(06:55):
Really smart person, and I thinkit's, uh, important that we try
to understand how, some of thesesmart people think when it comes
to, their thoughts on God.
So I wanna start this off.
Uh, there's a, like a two minuteclip of, uh, Neil, uh, Degrass
Tyson talking about, God, Iwanna play that here real quick.
(07:18):
Okay.
Okay.
Alright.
Believe in God, me, creator.
So, uh, yeah, so I'm, the, themore I look at the universe, um,
just the less convinced I amthat there is something
benevolent going on.
So if you, if, if your conceptof a creator.
Is someone who's all powerfuland all good.
(07:40):
That's not an uncommon pairingof powers that you might
describe to a creator.
All powerful and all good, and Ilook at disasters that afflict
earth and life on earth,volcanoes, hurricanes,
tornadoes, earthquakes, disease,pestilence.
(08:01):
Um, congenital birth defects.
You look at this list of waysthat life is made miserable on
earth by natural causes, and Ijust ask how do you deal with
that?
So philosophers rose up andsaid, if there is a God, God is
either not all powerful or notall good.
(08:25):
I have no problems.
As we probe the origins ofthings, we bump up into the
bearded man.
If that shows up, we're good togo.
Okay, not a problem.
There's just no evidence of it,and this is why religions are
called faiths collectively,because you believe something in
the absence of evidence.
(08:46):
That's what it is.
It's why it's called faith.
Otherwise, we would call allreligions evidence, but we don't
for exactly that reason.
So I, I'm, I'm given whateveryone describes to be the
properties that would beexpressed by an all powerful
being in the gods that theyworship.
(09:07):
I look for that in the universe,and I don't find it, so I, I, I
remain unconvinced.
But if you got some goodevidence, uh, bring it, bring,
bring it, bring it.
Okay.
And so I don't, I don't leadwith that information because.
What I believe should beirrelevant to anyone.
(09:31):
It's not about me, it's aboutthe real world.
Alright, we're gonna stop itright there.
Hmm.
What's your thoughts?
Uh, very interesting.
I've, I've listened to him, uh,talk before about different, uh,
about different things and he'sa very logical man and, uh, you
have to take what he saysserious.
Um, so I just thought it wasvery interesting.
(09:52):
Uh, uh, what do you think?
Well, uh, lemme just summarizefirst, what I think he is
saying.
If I can summarize his argumentand the conclusions that he draw
are all based on logic.
Now his major condition is that,uh, because there's suffering
(10:13):
and there are natural disasterevents, how can you say that
God's a loving God?
And when I listen to him, Ithink that he is a strictly
logical person.
Logic and faith don't alwayssquare with each other.
So then I had come back to,well, what is faith?
So what is faith?
(10:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I just, I try to keep itsimple.
Faith is just believing insomething that, something, or
someone that, that, uh, youdon't see, I mean, you don't
know.
You just have to have faith.
You just have to have a beliefin something.
I just try to keep it simple.
That's what my definition offaith is.
(10:56):
Okay.
Well, you and I both grew up inthe church.
Same church.
Yep.
Yep.
And that definition, thatbiblical definition.
Faith is, uh, what we werealways told in churches that
faith is the belief in thingsnot seen or in things that have
not happened, belief in thingsthat have been foretold and have
(11:18):
not come to pass.
Yeah, that about sums it up.
I mean, it's, uh, I know peoplemay have different, uh,
definitions, but.
Um, what you just said in theBible, that just sums it up,
that's faith.
So do you believe that, uh, themajor difference between an
agnostic and a true believer or,or what we call ourselves a
(11:41):
pantheist is, is just faith?
Prob I'd have to say probablyyes because, um.
We can't prove anything,honestly.
Well, maybe not anything there.
There's a lot we can't prove.
Right.
So you just have to, you have tobelieve and just go on faith.
That's really all you can do.
(12:02):
And it's, uh, to me that's whatfaith is.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now, you know what?
I do believe that faith is amajor part of our Western
religion and for me personally,and that faith defines that
there is a God and what God is.
And we often draw upon our faithusing the Bible as the
(12:22):
foundation.
Now, this is where I have someproblems because in my mind,
sometimes the Bible doescontradict itself and that
contradiction, can lead to somedoubt.
And doubt is the opposite offaith.
And so this doubt can causesomeone to question the
(12:43):
existence of God.
Does that make sense?
True.
Yes, true.
You, you're exactly right.
Um, uh, can you have an exampleof a contradiction?
Any kind of contradiction?
Well, yeah, I have, I have a, Ihave a few, um, examples and
we've talked about some ofthese, but the first
contradiction in my mind, it's astory of Adam and Eve.
(13:07):
Supposedly Adam and Eve are thefirst humans, so Adam and Eve,
Bo three sons, and that's in theBible.
Ka Abel and Seth.
Mm-hmm.
According to the Bible, Kainkilled Abel in a fifth of rage.
Right?
So instead of Kain being put todeath, there was a mark placed
(13:27):
upon his hand as a warning forothers not to harm him.
Do you remember that?
Yes.
So if Adam and Eve are theoriginal and their three sons
are next, then what people isCain being protected from?
Ah, good question.
Yes.
I've always wondered thatmyself.
(13:48):
Um, I think you said that he puta mark on his hand.
I thought it was his forehead,but maybe it was his forehead.
Yeah, maybe it his forehead.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
But, uh, I just, I alwayswondered that too.
There's, I'm like you, there'ssome things in the Bible that I,
I que remember in our very firstpodcast, I said, uh, I loved it.
(14:08):
But always had questions.
You did say that always.
I remember that I did, alwayshad questions and uh, that book
Conversations with Guy kindaanswered a lot, but still, yeah,
there's always, uh, somequestions and contradictions in
the Bible.
And that's a prime example ofone right there.
Um, yeah.
Who was there to, who was there,out there when Kane was walking
(14:31):
around the earth to, that he hadto be protected from, I have no
idea.
Right, right now.
Those, I mean, that's just oneexample.
Yeah.
And like I said, thosecontradictions and that in my
mind that could challengesomeone's faith.
Now, you know what, I don'twanna question anyone's faith,
but again, I do have lots ofquestions.
Mm-hmm.
And lemme tell you, I asked thatquestion of many clergy, and the
(14:53):
answers vary from, you must havefaith to remember that the
Christian religion is a Jewishreligion.
And of course there were otherpeople in the world, so there
are other religions, and I'mlike, I thought that was pretty
striking for someone to admitthat, this, the Bible is of a
Jewish religion, but there areother people out there.
So the Bible says that, it'sAdam and Eve, that's the
(15:16):
beginning, but they would admitthat there's others out there.
Right, right.
And then, yes, go ahead.
No.
Yeah, you're right.
Uh, to hear somebody else, aler,just to admit that is like, wow.
So it's kind of like aneyeopener a little bit, It's
like, hmm.
So you do believe in somethingelse, Right.
(15:37):
Than what we've been taughtgrowing up.
Right.
Boom.
Yeah.
So yeah, you're right.
It's, that was a little, that'san eye opener.
And, I don't want to get off thetopic here, but if we have that
kind of thing out there and aclergy would say that.
It gets really crazy.
I'm like, what?
What's to say that maybe weweren't created by aliens?
I mean, who knows?
(15:58):
Who knows?
Who knows.
Right, right.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, you know, that's wherethat faith comes in, I guess,
because I.
We were taught growing up, andthat's just what we believe.
But then you get older, youstart having questions, and I
guess it just depends on theindividual.
Do you want to continue tobelieve what you were taught as
a child?
(16:19):
That's faith, Right.
That's faith because you, inreality, you just don't know.
You just don't know.
You just don't know.
You just believe what you'vebeen taught, right?
So, yeah.
It's, uh, kind of funny.
I was talking to a friend ofmine who is a clergy, person
here, and, they made a verysimilar comment that, uh, you
have to believe what youbelieve, right?
(16:41):
And I said something to theeffect, I'm like, it, it lends
meaning to that, old saying, youare your father's religion.
So you're going to believe whatyou were born into.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, someone that is, uh, aMuslim, they're not likely to
believe anything other than whatthey were born into and what
they were taught, much like.
(17:03):
Right.
We as Christians believe what wewere born into and what we were
taught.
Right.
And it, it's interesting yousaid that.
'cause our mom, she was ahardcore, uh, Christian,
hardcore, and, and it's great, Imean, she.
Had us in church and, hopefully,that our lives, uh, kinda show
that, uh, we were raised, bygood, good parents, Right.
(17:26):
Uh, but, but hit it.
Hit me one time.
It's like, I.
Well, who else is going toheaven?
Are Buddhists allowed to go toheaven or Muslims allowed to go
to heaven?
Right.
It made you think, I mean, justChristians going to heaven.
I don't know.
I think God's all loving God foreverybody, but it just made you
think and Right.
Make you like, hmm.
(17:46):
Okay.
Right.
But I'm like, but I'm like you.
I don't want to, you know, you,if people believe what you
believe, that's, that's, you'reliving your life.
Stick with your religion andyou'll do your best with it.
It just, like you, I juststarted wondering a little bit.
Absolutely.
And Yeah.
And I think that's what we'retrying to do here with this, uh,
(18:07):
bring things to people that may,they may not have thought about
and.
It kinda helps them to, rethinkand hopefully either strengthen
their faith or begin to questionand, try to learn more, uh, so
that they can put themselves ona, on a good path.
I'm not gonna say a right path,but a good path, uh mm-hmm.
(18:30):
For their life.
Correct.
And I, and I, sorry, but then Ithink that's what will bring the
world together.
You know, if don't, um, shut outsomebody else's religion just
because you don't believe it.
Maybe try to open your heart,open your mind, and try to see
(18:50):
somebody else's point of view.
Right.
And I just think that's what'sgonna bring the world together.
One day could be a thousandyears from now, but hopefully,
right.
That's what we're evolving to.
So what you're saying is justacceptance of someone else's.
Beliefs.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
So do you think that thatapplies to more than just their
(19:11):
religious beliefs?
I mean, I'm gonna open up awhole can of worms here.
Yeah.
We talk about people that aregay or Yeah.
We talk about, I don't know whatelse, but yeah.
So what you're saying is we haveto open up and accept, I guess,
accept people for who they are.
Well, yeah.
Be I, I, I think so, because, wedon't know.
(19:34):
Our purpose, what somebodyelse's purpose is on this earth.
In that book, conversations withGod, they were asking the
question, does Hitler go tohell?
And, and God told them like, youhave no, yeah, he's in heaven
and I'm gonna tell you thereason why he's in heaven,
because he was sent here to showyou what you don't want to be.
(19:54):
So he fulfilled his purpose.
So we don't know.
Yeah.
You gonna get people shooting atus when I, I know.
Yeah.
Yes.
But that's okay.
It's, it's, it's what you think.
Go ahead.
Well, we don't know whatsomebody's purpose here is on
earth.
And even in the Bible says,judge, not, you're not supposed
(20:15):
to judge.
That's up to God, if you will.
Right.
And so, let that person live.
Let that person live, and, uh,hopefully, show'em love.
Uh, I know everybody doesn'thave the same, uh, level of love
that you know, you may have orsomebody else may have.
Some things are just maybetotally unacceptable.
(20:36):
But again, don't judge, Okay.
Don't judge you.
Just try to show love andprotect yourself, okay?
And don't be, don't be foolish,but protect yourself.
But just show love and beaccepting to people.
Alright, devil's advocate.
Advocate here.
You say accept people.
Mm-hmm.
This is where we have lawsbecause you accept someone for
who they are, but we don't wannaaccept, I guess, their actions.
(21:00):
Someone that goes out and andkills someone, or someone that
goes out and rapes someone.
Correct.
So yeah, we're, I guess we'restarting to get into, yeah, our
religion also has to have somestructure or those laws have to
have some structure or we, uh,civilization has to have some
structure.
Uh, yeah.
And I guess it's based onreligion.
(21:23):
Well, you know, you have God lawand even Jesus said, render into
Caesar, the things Caesar, andthen the God, the things that
are God.
You know, there's man laws andthere's God laws.
You know, I think God laws ispure love.
That's just what I think.
And man laws, yes, you have tohave some structure, but that's
what we're evolving to is try tobe God love.
(21:43):
And if you're God love, then.
I don't know, Gary, we may notneed no man laws.
Right.
You know what?
You're a walking, talkingencyclopedia dictionary tonight.
Well, I told you earlier, I lovereading the Bible.
I love the discussions and everyI, I, I could do this all day,
right.
Okay.
But yeah.
Okay.
I tell you what, we can't dothis all day, but guess what?
(22:05):
Yeah, we're about.
14 minutes into this discussion,and I know that we can go
deeper, but over the next fewweeks we'll go deeper and deeper
and deeper.
So today we talked about,different belief definitions,
specifically agnostics and whatit means to be an agnostic.
Uh, we also talked about faithand how it's the foundation of
(22:28):
Western religions next week.
And we'll talk about atheism andwhat it means.
That ought to be prettyinteresting.
Yeah.
And then we'll compare andcontrast this with, uh, Western
religion and try to understandwhy people are atheists.
All right.
I can't wait.
Neither can I.
Hey.
Yeah, this was a great sessiontoday.
(22:50):
You're right.
It was, it was really good.
I hope, people get something outof, and, uh, looking forward to
next week too, so, but, uh,Gary, now's the time for our
favorite part of the podcast.
All right.
Read a yes.
We read a story from one of ourlisteners telling about a
traumatic time in their lives,and how did their faith help
them to navigate this storm?
(23:11):
So today our story comes fromJames in good old Kentucky.
All right, our, our birthplacehere.
Yes, yes.
And rights.
I've always loved the feeling ofthe wind rushing past as I drove
down the open highway with thetop down of my car.
I was a free spirit and I alwaysdid things my way with little
(23:32):
regard to those around me.
It was always my way when itcame to what I wanted to do.
Night.
Everything changed in the blinkof an eye.
The headlights came too fast,the screeching of tires, the
shot in the glass, and thenboom, nothing.
When I woke up in the hospital,the first thing I noticed was
(23:56):
the stillness.
My legs didn't move my, my bodydidn't feel like it was mine.
The doctors explained the extentof my injuries paralysis from
the waist down.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, words swimming his mindin, in his mind, each one
cutting deeper than the last.
My dreams, my independence, myentire future was gone.
(24:20):
It felt like it had been stolen.
I recovered days and days turnedinto weeks, and I refused to
accept this new reality that Iwas never gonna walk again.
Shoot.
Yeah.
My mind was a battlefield filledwith doubt and despair.
I often asked myself, why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
(24:41):
But then something unexpectedhappened.
About four weeks into myrecovery, my mother came in
holding an old wor book.
It was the Bible that I had setaside in my younger years,
James.
She said softly, faith doesn'tremove the hardships, but it
does help us bear faith.
(25:03):
How could faith fix this?
But in the quiet nights when Iwas alone, I found myself
opening that book.
You read about hope and aboutfinding purpose even in
suffering.
He said, my father would sitwith me sharing stories of
people who had risen beyondtheir circumstances.
My sisters reminded me of mystrength and how it all, and how
(25:24):
I was always the one who nevergave up.
One day, my best friend Marcuswalked in with a challenge.
He said, okay, buddy.
He grin so your legs don't work,but your arms do.
Time to hit the gym.
I laugh for the first time inweeks.
The idea seemed ridiculous, metraining in a wheelchair, but
(25:46):
Marcus was relentless.
And soon I found myself liftingweights, feeling my body
respond.
Over time, the darkness lifted.
I started therapy, determined tolive this new life with other
gusto that I had before theaccident.
My faith gave me strength on thedays when anger and sadness
returned, and my family remindedme that I was more than this
(26:09):
physical state.
Hm.
Months later, I rolled into therehab center feeling different,
stronger and whole.
I had come to understand that mylife hadn't ended that night.
It had just shifted, and withsupport, faith and sheer
willpower, I was still incontrol.
That faith, yeah, I, I realizedthat I might not drive down a
(26:33):
highway again with the top downand the music blaring.
I might never feel the rush ofwind the way that I once did.
I.
That didn't mean that Icouldn't, couldn't chase joy in
other ways.
It was then that I realized joycould be found in other ways,
and the joy that I was nowexperiencing was enough.
(26:54):
Yeah, that's a, wow.
That's a, that is a great, agreat testimonial.
Yes, it is.
Thank you, James, for sendingyour story.
We hope that you have found somepeace and purpose in your life.
We believe that, uh, your livedlife experience is someone's
playbook for dealing with thestorms in their lives.
James, your story will helpsomeone to find the strength to
(27:16):
deal with the storms in theirlives.
Thank you, James.
Thanks, James.
Yes.
Okay, so this will close ourpodcast for today.
It was a good one.
It was a good one.
Thank you for Yes.
Thank you for joining us todayon CRC De Soul.
We hope that it sparks some newthoughts about the purpose of
life.
(27:37):
If you would like to send ussome questions for discussion,
please do.
Or if you would like to sendyour story, please email these
to CRC de soul444@gmail.com atC-I-R-Q-U-E-D-U-S-O-U
l44@gmail.com.
So if you found value in today'sepisode, please share it with
(28:00):
someone who might benefit fromit.
And don't forget to like andsubscribe so you don't miss any
future episodes.
And remember, your spiritualjourney is uniquely yours, but
remember, you're never alonelike James.
There are always others to helpyou through the storms in your
life.
Take care of yourself.
Be kind to yourself and be kindto the world around you.
(28:23):
And until the next time, have agreat day in Paradise Life and
Shade's, trying it best to beatme down to the ground.
I'm praying for things to changeand I need it to happen to
(28:47):
happen.
But you sit so quiet.
So as I wait on you, Lord, foryour I'll station myself and
drop my anger up my and stillwave.
I'm going my way until you makeway.
(29:10):
I am gonna drop my.
In the end, I'll win and dropmy.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soul.
We connected with the globe.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soultook some discipline, repetition
and some self-control.
We connected with the globe.
Said that's mind, body, soul.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's mind, body, soul.
Hey.
Yeah.
That's Mind, body, soul tooksome discipline, repetition and
some self-control.
Triple lies be the tribe yetthat's Mindbody Soul.
(00:28):
Welcome to CIR to Soul, the onlyuncut, unedited podcast that is
dedicated to helping you to findspiritual peace in your life.
Kim, you with me today?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Today, this is the first episodein our four-part series of Is
There A God?
Wow.
Okay.
There's no doubt that peoplefrom around the world believe in
(00:51):
God's existence.
Is this existence based onbelief or hard evidence?
So for the next few weeks, we'lltake a look at the evidence for
and against the exist existenceof God and see what conclusions
that we can come up with.
This is gonna be a fun and, uh,fascinating topic.
Gary, I think you, you'reabsolutely right.
(01:12):
Before we go too deep though,let's try to understand the
different ways that peoplebelieve or don't believe.
So, nothing is ever black andwhite.
It's not as simple as saying, Ibelieve or I don't believe in
God.
Right.
So, okay.
So I'm guessing that you have,something for us to start from,
that I do.
(01:33):
This is, this is where I like tostart.
Okay.
Uh, okay.
First, there are a number ofdifferent ways that people
believe around, uh, this, thisidea of whether there's a God or
not.
So I want to go through, acouple of those and, and give a
quick definition of those.
All right.
(01:53):
Okay.
Just a real quick definition.
So, okay.
The first one is a pagan.
Do you, do you know what a Paganis?
Yes, I do.
Okay.
Yes.
A pagan, that's someone thatdoesn't, uh, this has no
religious beliefs at all.
None.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
And then we have the atheist,and I think this is the one.
(02:14):
Everyone always thinks, this isthe, this is the difference
between a Christian and, uh, uh,nonbeliever.
It's a atheist, but they're justone of a group of people that
don't believe.
Okay?
And then we have an agnostic,and that's a person who believes
that nothing is known or can beknown of the existence of God or
(02:35):
of anything beyond materialphenomena.
That's a person who claimsneither faith nor belief in God.
Okay.
Then there's the deist.
That's someone who believes in aGod or a supreme being who
creates the universe, but hasno, uh, doesn't intervene or has
no affairs in human life.
(02:57):
And then finally we have the,the pantheist.
And that's someone who believesthat the universe, nature and
reality, they're all identicalto the, to divinity, are a
superior entity.
Meaning that everything is partof a single, all encompassing
deity rather than a separatecreator.
Now that's just five differentdefinitions, and you've heard
(03:20):
these, so do you identify withany of those definitions and,
and if so, why?
Hmm.
Okay.
Yeah.
Probably the pantheist, simplybecause of, uh, just been
reading and.
Reading about spirituality and,how we get to a certain level.
(03:42):
But I must admit though, that,uh, growing up in the church and
just my beliefs as a child,always when I pray, I, I can't
help but just imagine the man indisguise that I'm praying to.
Right?
Right.
So, I mean, it just comes from,childhood beliefs and going into
church, which is nothing wrongwith that at all.
I, I think, uh.
(04:04):
People pray to God the way, theway they seem fit for
themselves.
But I think I identify as apantheist, as, uh, we're all
one.
And um, we we're one part ofGod's spirit.
So that's what I believe in.
What about you?
Do you believe in any of these?
Well, you know what, I guessbecause we were raised alike, I
(04:27):
mean, we were both in thechurch.
I would have to say that I thinkof myself as a pantheist also.
Excuse me, but I do believe thatwe can have a relationship with
the Supreme being our God.
I've had some personalexperiences that sort of
validated and reinforce mybelief in God, uh, that a God
(04:50):
that does answer prayers and, isactive in our lives now.
Mm-hmm.
Now, some of these things willcome out in later brought, uh,
later broadcasts.
These experiences that I've hadand that you've had.
I also believe that we must, uh,seek to search for and try to
achieve a higher version of ourlives.
We have to become more likeJesus or Buddha so that we can
(05:13):
be closer to God.
Now, I don't want to get intothe differences between rest and
religions and Easternphilosophies and today's
discussion, but we will divedeeper into those differences
and the foundations, at a laterdate.
Oh, okay.
That sounds good.
I, I, I agree with you aboutthe, uh, trying to get to that
(05:34):
higher version of ourselves, getto that, that God level,
because, as a pantheist we dobelieve that we're one with God,
or can be one with God.
Yes.
So the, uh, as you evolve, youget to that point.
So, yeah, I, I, I do believe intrying to, raise your higher
level up and try to get to thatpoint of godhood like Jesus and
Buddha.
Great.
Yeah.
(05:54):
So, what I'd like to do, overthe next few weeks is to take a
deeper dive into each of thesedifferent beliefs are
non-belief, and try tounderstand their thinking.
And hopefully, hopefully thiswill help others to understand
their own personal beliefs oreven change their ideas about
what they believe.
Yeah.
(06:14):
Yeah, that's great.
Um, you know, that's what thispodcast is all about.
It's about opening our thinkingand helping us to grow.
Helping us to evolve.
So, um, so what are you thinkingthen, Gary?
I found, uh, one of these to bea little interesting because
there's a guy that, uh, I followand he's an agnostic.
(06:34):
So let's start with agnosticstoday.
And the guy that I follow, hisname is, uh, Neil Digress.
Tyson, you've probably heard ofhim.
I have, yeah.
Uh, for those who don't knowhim, he's an astrophysicist, a
science communicator, and he'san author.
I call him the new StephenHawking.
He's a very smart person.
(06:55):
Really smart person, and I thinkit's, uh, important that we try
to understand how, some of thesesmart people think when it comes
to, their thoughts on God.
So I wanna start this off.
Uh, there's a, like a two minuteclip of, uh, Neil, uh, Degrass
Tyson talking about, God, Iwanna play that here real quick.
(07:18):
Okay.
Okay.
Alright.
Believe in God, me, creator.
So, uh, yeah, so I'm, the, themore I look at the universe, um,
just the less convinced I amthat there is something
benevolent going on.
So if you, if, if your conceptof a creator.
Is someone who's all powerfuland all good.
(07:40):
That's not an uncommon pairingof powers that you might
describe to a creator.
All powerful and all good, and Ilook at disasters that afflict
earth and life on earth,volcanoes, hurricanes,
tornadoes, earthquakes, disease,pestilence.
(08:01):
Um, congenital birth defects.
You look at this list of waysthat life is made miserable on
earth by natural causes, and Ijust ask how do you deal with
that?
So philosophers rose up andsaid, if there is a God, God is
either not all powerful or notall good.
(08:25):
I have no problems.
As we probe the origins ofthings, we bump up into the
bearded man.
If that shows up, we're good togo.
Okay, not a problem.
There's just no evidence of it,and this is why religions are
called faiths collectively,because you believe something in
the absence of evidence.
(08:46):
That's what it is.
It's why it's called faith.
Otherwise, we would call allreligions evidence, but we don't
for exactly that reason.
So I, I'm, I'm given whateveryone describes to be the
properties that would beexpressed by an all powerful
being in the gods that theyworship.
(09:07):
I look for that in the universe,and I don't find it, so I, I, I
remain unconvinced.
But if you got some goodevidence, uh, bring it, bring,
bring it, bring it.
Okay.
And so I don't, I don't leadwith that information because.
What I believe should beirrelevant to anyone.
(09:31):
It's not about me, it's aboutthe real world.
Alright, we're gonna stop itright there.
Hmm.
What's your thoughts?
Uh, very interesting.
I've, I've listened to him, uh,talk before about different, uh,
about different things and he'sa very logical man and, uh, you
have to take what he saysserious.
Um, so I just thought it wasvery interesting.
(09:52):
Uh, uh, what do you think?
Well, uh, lemme just summarizefirst, what I think he is
saying.
If I can summarize his argumentand the conclusions that he draw
are all based on logic.
Now his major condition is that,uh, because there's suffering
(10:13):
and there are natural disasterevents, how can you say that
God's a loving God?
And when I listen to him, Ithink that he is a strictly
logical person.
Logic and faith don't alwayssquare with each other.
So then I had come back to,well, what is faith?
So what is faith?
(10:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I just, I try to keep itsimple.
Faith is just believing insomething that, something, or
someone that, that, uh, youdon't see, I mean, you don't
know.
You just have to have faith.
You just have to have a beliefin something.
I just try to keep it simple.
That's what my definition offaith is.
(10:56):
Okay.
Well, you and I both grew up inthe church.
Same church.
Yep.
Yep.
And that definition, thatbiblical definition.
Faith is, uh, what we werealways told in churches that
faith is the belief in thingsnot seen or in things that have
not happened, belief in thingsthat have been foretold and have
(11:18):
not come to pass.
Yeah, that about sums it up.
I mean, it's, uh, I know peoplemay have different, uh,
definitions, but.
Um, what you just said in theBible, that just sums it up,
that's faith.
So do you believe that, uh, themajor difference between an
agnostic and a true believer or,or what we call ourselves a
(11:41):
pantheist is, is just faith?
Prob I'd have to say probablyyes because, um.
We can't prove anything,honestly.
Well, maybe not anything there.
There's a lot we can't prove.
Right.
So you just have to, you have tobelieve and just go on faith.
That's really all you can do.
(12:02):
And it's, uh, to me that's whatfaith is.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now, you know what?
I do believe that faith is amajor part of our Western
religion and for me personally,and that faith defines that
there is a God and what God is.
And we often draw upon our faithusing the Bible as the
(12:22):
foundation.
Now, this is where I have someproblems because in my mind,
sometimes the Bible doescontradict itself and that
contradiction, can lead to somedoubt.
And doubt is the opposite offaith.
And so this doubt can causesomeone to question the
(12:43):
existence of God.
Does that make sense?
True.
Yes, true.
You, you're exactly right.
Um, uh, can you have an exampleof a contradiction?
Any kind of contradiction?
Well, yeah, I have, I have a, Ihave a few, um, examples and
we've talked about some ofthese, but the first
contradiction in my mind, it's astory of Adam and Eve.
(13:07):
Supposedly Adam and Eve are thefirst humans, so Adam and Eve,
Bo three sons, and that's in theBible.
Ka Abel and Seth.
Mm-hmm.
According to the Bible, Kainkilled Abel in a fifth of rage.
Right?
So instead of Kain being put todeath, there was a mark placed
(13:27):
upon his hand as a warning forothers not to harm him.
Do you remember that?
Yes.
So if Adam and Eve are theoriginal and their three sons
are next, then what people isCain being protected from?
Ah, good question.
Yes.
I've always wondered thatmyself.
(13:48):
Um, I think you said that he puta mark on his hand.
I thought it was his forehead,but maybe it was his forehead.
Yeah, maybe it his forehead.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
But, uh, I just, I alwayswondered that too.
There's, I'm like you, there'ssome things in the Bible that I,
I que remember in our very firstpodcast, I said, uh, I loved it.
(14:08):
But always had questions.
You did say that always.
I remember that I did, alwayshad questions and uh, that book
Conversations with Guy kindaanswered a lot, but still, yeah,
there's always, uh, somequestions and contradictions in
the Bible.
And that's a prime example ofone right there.
Um, yeah.
Who was there to, who was there,out there when Kane was walking
(14:31):
around the earth to, that he hadto be protected from, I have no
idea.
Right, right now.
Those, I mean, that's just oneexample.
Yeah.
And like I said, thosecontradictions and that in my
mind that could challengesomeone's faith.
Now, you know what, I don'twanna question anyone's faith,
but again, I do have lots ofquestions.
Mm-hmm.
And lemme tell you, I asked thatquestion of many clergy, and the
(14:53):
answers vary from, you must havefaith to remember that the
Christian religion is a Jewishreligion.
And of course there were otherpeople in the world, so there
are other religions, and I'mlike, I thought that was pretty
striking for someone to admitthat, this, the Bible is of a
Jewish religion, but there areother people out there.
So the Bible says that, it'sAdam and Eve, that's the
(15:16):
beginning, but they would admitthat there's others out there.
Right, right.
And then, yes, go ahead.
No.
Yeah, you're right.
Uh, to hear somebody else, aler,just to admit that is like, wow.
So it's kind of like aneyeopener a little bit, It's
like, hmm.
So you do believe in somethingelse, Right.
(15:37):
Than what we've been taughtgrowing up.
Right.
Boom.
Yeah.
So yeah, you're right.
It's, that was a little, that'san eye opener.
And, I don't want to get off thetopic here, but if we have that
kind of thing out there and aclergy would say that.
It gets really crazy.
I'm like, what?
What's to say that maybe weweren't created by aliens?
I mean, who knows?
(15:58):
Who knows?
Who knows.
Right, right.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, you know, that's wherethat faith comes in, I guess,
because I.
We were taught growing up, andthat's just what we believe.
But then you get older, youstart having questions, and I
guess it just depends on theindividual.
Do you want to continue tobelieve what you were taught as
a child?
(16:19):
That's faith, Right.
That's faith because you, inreality, you just don't know.
You just don't know.
You just don't know.
You just believe what you'vebeen taught, right?
So, yeah.
It's, uh, kind of funny.
I was talking to a friend ofmine who is a clergy, person
here, and, they made a verysimilar comment that, uh, you
have to believe what youbelieve, right?
(16:41):
And I said something to theeffect, I'm like, it, it lends
meaning to that, old saying, youare your father's religion.
So you're going to believe whatyou were born into.
Mm-hmm.
So, uh, someone that is, uh, aMuslim, they're not likely to
believe anything other than whatthey were born into and what
they were taught, much like.
(17:03):
Right.
We as Christians believe what wewere born into and what we were
taught.
Right.
And it, it's interesting yousaid that.
'cause our mom, she was ahardcore, uh, Christian,
hardcore, and, and it's great, Imean, she.
Had us in church and, hopefully,that our lives, uh, kinda show
that, uh, we were raised, bygood, good parents, Right.
(17:26):
Uh, but, but hit it.
Hit me one time.
It's like, I.
Well, who else is going toheaven?
Are Buddhists allowed to go toheaven or Muslims allowed to go
to heaven?
Right.
It made you think, I mean, justChristians going to heaven.
I don't know.
I think God's all loving God foreverybody, but it just made you
think and Right.
Make you like, hmm.
(17:46):
Okay.
Right.
But I'm like, but I'm like you.
I don't want to, you know, you,if people believe what you
believe, that's, that's, you'reliving your life.
Stick with your religion andyou'll do your best with it.
It just, like you, I juststarted wondering a little bit.
Absolutely.
And Yeah.
And I think that's what we'retrying to do here with this, uh,
(18:07):
bring things to people that may,they may not have thought about
and.
It kinda helps them to, rethinkand hopefully either strengthen
their faith or begin to questionand, try to learn more, uh, so
that they can put themselves ona, on a good path.
I'm not gonna say a right path,but a good path, uh mm-hmm.
(18:30):
For their life.
Correct.
And I, and I, sorry, but then Ithink that's what will bring the
world together.
You know, if don't, um, shut outsomebody else's religion just
because you don't believe it.
Maybe try to open your heart,open your mind, and try to see
(18:50):
somebody else's point of view.
Right.
And I just think that's what'sgonna bring the world together.
One day could be a thousandyears from now, but hopefully,
right.
That's what we're evolving to.
So what you're saying is justacceptance of someone else's.
Beliefs.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
So do you think that thatapplies to more than just their
(19:11):
religious beliefs?
I mean, I'm gonna open up awhole can of worms here.
Yeah.
We talk about people that aregay or Yeah.
We talk about, I don't know whatelse, but yeah.
So what you're saying is we haveto open up and accept, I guess,
accept people for who they are.
Well, yeah.
Be I, I, I think so, because, wedon't know.
(19:34):
Our purpose, what somebodyelse's purpose is on this earth.
In that book, conversations withGod, they were asking the
question, does Hitler go tohell?
And, and God told them like, youhave no, yeah, he's in heaven
and I'm gonna tell you thereason why he's in heaven,
because he was sent here to showyou what you don't want to be.
(19:54):
So he fulfilled his purpose.
So we don't know.
Yeah.
You gonna get people shooting atus when I, I know.
Yeah.
Yes.
But that's okay.
It's, it's, it's what you think.
Go ahead.
Well, we don't know whatsomebody's purpose here is on
earth.
And even in the Bible says,judge, not, you're not supposed
(20:15):
to judge.
That's up to God, if you will.
Right.
And so, let that person live.
Let that person live, and, uh,hopefully, show'em love.
Uh, I know everybody doesn'thave the same, uh, level of love
that you know, you may have orsomebody else may have.
Some things are just maybetotally unacceptable.
(20:36):
But again, don't judge, Okay.
Don't judge you.
Just try to show love andprotect yourself, okay?
And don't be, don't be foolish,but protect yourself.
But just show love and beaccepting to people.
Alright, devil's advocate.
Advocate here.
You say accept people.
Mm-hmm.
This is where we have lawsbecause you accept someone for
who they are, but we don't wannaaccept, I guess, their actions.
(21:00):
Someone that goes out and andkills someone, or someone that
goes out and rapes someone.
Correct.
So yeah, we're, I guess we'restarting to get into, yeah, our
religion also has to have somestructure or those laws have to
have some structure or we, uh,civilization has to have some
structure.
Uh, yeah.
And I guess it's based onreligion.
(21:23):
Well, you know, you have God lawand even Jesus said, render into
Caesar, the things Caesar, andthen the God, the things that
are God.
You know, there's man laws andthere's God laws.
You know, I think God laws ispure love.
That's just what I think.
And man laws, yes, you have tohave some structure, but that's
what we're evolving to is try tobe God love.
(21:43):
And if you're God love, then.
I don't know, Gary, we may notneed no man laws.
Right.
You know what?
You're a walking, talkingencyclopedia dictionary tonight.
Well, I told you earlier, I lovereading the Bible.
I love the discussions and everyI, I, I could do this all day,
right.
Okay.
But yeah.
Okay.
I tell you what, we can't dothis all day, but guess what?
(22:05):
Yeah, we're about.
14 minutes into this discussion,and I know that we can go
deeper, but over the next fewweeks we'll go deeper and deeper
and deeper.
So today we talked about,different belief definitions,
specifically agnostics and whatit means to be an agnostic.
Uh, we also talked about faithand how it's the foundation of
(22:28):
Western religions next week.
And we'll talk about atheism andwhat it means.
That ought to be prettyinteresting.
Yeah.
And then we'll compare andcontrast this with, uh, Western
religion and try to understandwhy people are atheists.
All right.
I can't wait.
Neither can I.
Hey.
Yeah, this was a great sessiontoday.
(22:50):
You're right.
It was, it was really good.
I hope, people get something outof, and, uh, looking forward to
next week too, so, but, uh,Gary, now's the time for our
favorite part of the podcast.
All right.
Read a yes.
We read a story from one of ourlisteners telling about a
traumatic time in their lives,and how did their faith help
them to navigate this storm?
(23:11):
So today our story comes fromJames in good old Kentucky.
All right, our, our birthplacehere.
Yes, yes.
And rights.
I've always loved the feeling ofthe wind rushing past as I drove
down the open highway with thetop down of my car.
I was a free spirit and I alwaysdid things my way with little
(23:32):
regard to those around me.
It was always my way when itcame to what I wanted to do.
Night.
Everything changed in the blinkof an eye.
The headlights came too fast,the screeching of tires, the
shot in the glass, and thenboom, nothing.
When I woke up in the hospital,the first thing I noticed was
(23:56):
the stillness.
My legs didn't move my, my bodydidn't feel like it was mine.
The doctors explained the extentof my injuries paralysis from
the waist down.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, words swimming his mindin, in his mind, each one
cutting deeper than the last.
My dreams, my independence, myentire future was gone.
(24:20):
It felt like it had been stolen.
I recovered days and days turnedinto weeks, and I refused to
accept this new reality that Iwas never gonna walk again.
Shoot.
Yeah.
My mind was a battlefield filledwith doubt and despair.
I often asked myself, why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
(24:41):
But then something unexpectedhappened.
About four weeks into myrecovery, my mother came in
holding an old wor book.
It was the Bible that I had setaside in my younger years,
James.
She said softly, faith doesn'tremove the hardships, but it
does help us bear faith.
(25:03):
How could faith fix this?
But in the quiet nights when Iwas alone, I found myself
opening that book.
You read about hope and aboutfinding purpose even in
suffering.
He said, my father would sitwith me sharing stories of
people who had risen beyondtheir circumstances.
My sisters reminded me of mystrength and how it all, and how
(25:24):
I was always the one who nevergave up.
One day, my best friend Marcuswalked in with a challenge.
He said, okay, buddy.
He grin so your legs don't work,but your arms do.
Time to hit the gym.
I laugh for the first time inweeks.
The idea seemed ridiculous, metraining in a wheelchair, but
(25:46):
Marcus was relentless.
And soon I found myself liftingweights, feeling my body
respond.
Over time, the darkness lifted.
I started therapy, determined tolive this new life with other
gusto that I had before theaccident.
My faith gave me strength on thedays when anger and sadness
returned, and my family remindedme that I was more than this
(26:09):
physical state.
Hm.
Months later, I rolled into therehab center feeling different,
stronger and whole.
I had come to understand that mylife hadn't ended that night.
It had just shifted, and withsupport, faith and sheer
willpower, I was still incontrol.
That faith, yeah, I, I realizedthat I might not drive down a
(26:33):
highway again with the top downand the music blaring.
I might never feel the rush ofwind the way that I once did.
I.
That didn't mean that Icouldn't, couldn't chase joy in
other ways.
It was then that I realized joycould be found in other ways,
and the joy that I was nowexperiencing was enough.
(26:54):
Yeah, that's a, wow.
That's a, that is a great, agreat testimonial.
Yes, it is.
Thank you, James, for sendingyour story.
We hope that you have found somepeace and purpose in your life.
We believe that, uh, your livedlife experience is someone's
playbook for dealing with thestorms in their lives.
James, your story will helpsomeone to find the strength to
(27:16):
deal with the storms in theirlives.
Thank you, James.
Thanks, James.
Yes.
Okay, so this will close ourpodcast for today.
It was a good one.
It was a good one.
Thank you for Yes.
Thank you for joining us todayon CRC De Soul.
We hope that it sparks some newthoughts about the purpose of
life.
(27:37):
If you would like to send ussome questions for discussion,
please do.
Or if you would like to sendyour story, please email these
to CRC de soul444@gmail.com atC-I-R-Q-U-E-D-U-S-O-U
l44@gmail.com.
So if you found value in today'sepisode, please share it with
(28:00):
someone who might benefit fromit.
And don't forget to like andsubscribe so you don't miss any
future episodes.
And remember, your spiritualjourney is uniquely yours, but
remember, you're never alonelike James.
There are always others to helpyou through the storms in your
life.
Take care of yourself.
Be kind to yourself and be kindto the world around you.
(28:23):
And until the next time, have agreat day in Paradise Life and
Shade's, trying it best to beatme down to the ground.
I'm praying for things to changeand I need it to happen to
(28:47):
happen.
But you sit so quiet.
So as I wait on you, Lord, foryour I'll station myself and
drop my anger up my and stillwave.
I'm going my way until you makeway.
(29:10):
I am gonna drop my.
In the end, I'll win and dropmy.
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