June 6, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, the Bald Brothers discuss the idea of God from a deist and a pantheist view. We compare these views with that of traditional Christian views and see some startling observations that seem at odds with our traditional religious upbringing. In addition, we are just beginning to talk about the differences between western religion and eastern philosophy of enlightenment.
Some of our nations founders were deist and this sparked some conversation around their idea of separation of church and state. This is a topic that we will delve into in later episodes.
As always, we close out the episode with a story centered around faith and healing. One person's personal experiences and triumph will be the playbook for someone else going through similar trials and tribulations.
Help us to help others. Support our podcast and invest in someone's life. Send your support via CashApp to $cirquedusoul444.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Yeah, that's mind, body, soul.
We connected with the globe.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soultook some discipline, repetition
and some self-control.
We connected with the globe.
Said that's mind, body, soul.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's mind, body, soul.
Hey.
Yeah.
That's Mind, body, soul tooksome discipline, repetition and
some self-control.
Triple lies be the tribe yetthat's body, soul.
(00:28):
Welcome to Cirque the Soul, theonly uncut, unedited podcast
that is dedicated to helping youto find spiritual peace in your
life.
Kim, this is the last episode inour series of Is There a God?
Yeah, it's been great.
Over the past few weeks we havediscussed the question, is there
a God.
(00:49):
We've looked at this from theagnostic and the atheist
perspective, so today we'regonna visit this question from
the perspective of the deist andthe pantheist to review.
Number one, deist someone whobelieves in a God or supreme
being who created the universe,but does not intervene in its
(01:09):
affairs or in human life,relying on reason and
observation.
Pan is someone who believes thatthe universe, nature and reality
are identical to divinity or asuperior entity.
Meaning that everything is partof a single, all-encompassing
deity rather than a separatecreator.
(01:32):
This is gonna be fun and afascinating topic, Gary.
Yeah, you're right.
And, to start, let's go aheadand discuss the Daz point of
view and a couple of pointshere.
Okay.
Now the Diaz, they insist thatreligious truth should be
subject to the autonomy of humanreason rather than divine
revelation.
In other words, if you canreason and see a God, then
(01:56):
that's, that takes precedentover, the idea of this divine
revelation.
So they deny that the Bible wasthe reveal word of God, and they
reject scripture as a source ofreligious doctrine.
So what that means is they don'tbelieve that God listens to
prayers.
They also may or may not believein heaven or hell.
(02:19):
They don't believe in miracles,prophecies, angels, demons, they
don't believe in the divinelyinspired prophecies like the
Bible.
Now, some of the famous diss areThomas Jefferson.
This is gonna surprise you.
George Washington, BenjaminFranklin, Albert Einstein to
name a few.
They were all Christian Ds andthey didn't believe that Jesus
(02:42):
is the way to God.
That's hard to believe, isn'tit?
Now, I listed these individualsbecause they were also the
founders of our country, andthey believed that religion had
no place in government.
So what are your thoughts on theDiaz perspective?
Wow, that's a, that's prettytough.
I guess, I kinda understandwhere they're coming from a
(03:04):
little bit because, as far aslike reasoning and using
judgment about things, or commonsense about things or
scientists, scientific things, Imean, I get it.
Um.
That's what they base their,what they see.
That's what they bas it on.
And I guess, we've always talkedabout the past few weeks about
(03:25):
faith and uh, I don't think theycome from a place of faith.
They come from a place of, ofscientific reasoning.
Well, so it's, uh, yeah, if, Imean, if they come from that
point, I guess I understand, butI, it's just.
You know, the way we grew up,there's an element of faith in
it for me.
You're right.
(03:45):
Well, you know, let me justexplain a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
It says they do believe in aGod.
They just mm-hmm.
Uh, don't believe in some ofthose things that, talked about
you.
God doesn't listen to prayers.
They also may be, they don'tbelieve in heaven or hell.
So I, I don't in this case.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if faith is.
(04:09):
Faith is the right thing.
Okay, so if they believe in God,what is what?
What is, what do they believeGod's purpose is then?
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
God just made the heavens andearth, I mean, just made the
universe and that's it.
He's like, okay, that's it.
(04:29):
I don't know.
You know what?
That's a hard one.
That's a hard one because, yeah.
Well, I told you,, and I, spokeabout them being the, fathers of
our country.
I wonder if this has somethingto do with them saying that,
religion and, and the governmentshould be separate.
Government.
(04:50):
Say again?
Yeah, so be separate.
I mean, if they Yeah.
Yeah.
I, yeah, I, right.
If they believe that, God isthere, they believe in God, but
they don't believe in any of thethings that we, as, you know,
new Christians believe, then Ithink that would make sense in
why they would say that there'sa separation of, church and
(05:11):
state that they were avoidingreligious persecution.
But going back to the strictdefinition.
Uh, I, I'm not gonna questiontheir faith because obviously
they are Christians, theybelieve in God.
It's just that, um mm-hmm.
Some of the things that we asmodern Christians, uh, think
(05:32):
about heaven or hell, you know,God's answering the prayers.
They don't see that.
They don't see that at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
So they said that they may ormay not believe in heaven or
hell, um.
I guess they can go either way.
Right?
I, I, I, I, I, I, I mean, I, soI understand why they want the
(05:56):
separation of, uh, of religionand government, uh, since they
don't believe that Godintervenes with, uh.
With what we do here, right?
It's so, so when we have agovernment, we make our own
rules and our own laws keep Godout of it.
This is man's rules and man'slaws we govern according to what
(06:17):
man, you know, says whatbelieves or, you know, the, or
the law.
Right.
So I guess from their point ofview, I guess I can see that.
Yep.
And you know what, I don't wantthis to become a, a, a political
thing, but I often hear peoplesay that, uh, you know, our
country's a Christian.
Based country.
Uh, in reality, if we know whatthese forefathers thought, I
(06:40):
don't know how anyone could cometo the conclusion that we're a
Christian based country.
So, yeah, I just think thatwe've, we've said it so long
that we just believe it.
Oh, yes.
Again, not trying to becomepolitical, but, it, it's hard
to, uh, it's hard to say that weare a Christian based country
(07:01):
when the forefathers were, Deesand didn't believe in all the
things that we believe in today.
So, but yeah, that being that.
Go ahead.
Let me say this though, even, inthe Bible when they were trying
to trick Jesus and they showedhim a, a picture of, uh, Caesar
on a coin and they asked, Jesus,what do you think about this?
(07:23):
And Jesus said, render thethings in Caesar and render the
things of God.
Of God.
It kinda almost sounded like adeist almost, It's like, well,
whatever, God.
Whatever a man is made downhere, Caesars on the coin or
whatever, that's fine, that'sfine.
But also written into God, thethings that of God, which I
don't know what he meant bythat.
I guess it could be, I don'tknow why, why you worship God, I
(07:47):
guess, but it kinda sound like aDes and what Jesus said almost.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
Since you said that.
Yeah.
Right.
It does sound like, mm-hmm.
Jesus was speaking as a deist.
Now, Yeah.
In my mind, that asks otherquestions.
I'm like, well, our modern dayChristians, what are, what's our
reli, what is our religion basedon as Christians, we hear things
(08:08):
like Jesus saying, that soundslike a Daz point of view.
What exactly is our religionbased on?
I don't know.
Yeah.
You know it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's,.
Kind of the, the teachings ofJesus.
I mean, Christianity is the,,belief in Jesus Christ.
(08:30):
So whatever Jesus Christ,preached and taught, I think
that's,, what Christianity is.
That's just what I alwaysbelieve.
Right?
Uh, and I would agree with you.
I would agree with you.
Yeah.
As I was doing the research andwe had spoke about this, I
didn't think we talked too muchabout the Diaz because it seems
pretty simple andstraightforward.
(08:52):
Uh, the, the, the twist in therefor me was that our founding
forefathers were all deist.
And I'm like, wow.
You know, the fact that, youknow, we think that our, our
government is based uponChristian values.
I'm like, well, yeah.
Uh, these guys, uh, didn'tbelieve a lot of the things that
we believe in today.
(09:12):
Right, right, right.
And, and, and, uh, we were kind,we, uh, we kind of heard that.
Right.
But I, yeah, but I think we hearmore about this Christian
nation, so, right.
Yeah.
We just go with it, so.
Yep.
And we're gonna leave that onethere.
Okay.
We'll leave that right there.
This, we may get into thistopic, later on down the road in
(09:33):
our podcast and future episodes,but, uh, I really didn't think
we, hit too much on that, but,so.
Let's skip.
Mm-hmm.
And talk about the pantheistbecause this is a little bit
more interesting and I thinkthere's gonna be a few
bombshells from this.
So, uh, you gave a briefdefinition, uh, but let's say it
in a different way.
(09:54):
Okay.
A pantheist believes that Godnature are one and the same, and
that everything in the universeis a mode or a part of God.
Now, given that de definition.
Let's review something that wespoke on from a few weeks ago, a
few weeks ago when we startedthese discussions.
We both claim to be pantheistnow after these past few weeks.
(10:18):
Mm-hmm.
Reviewing what an agnostic is,an atheist, and we talk about
theus and we're talking aboutpantheists.
Do you still consider yourselfto be a pantheist?
And if you do, why?
See, I, I want people tounderstand we're going through
and learning also.
So, so this is why I'm askingthat question.
Right?
So, do you still consideryourself to be a pantheist?
Yeah.
And why?
(10:39):
Uh, yeah.
I, I, I think so because, I'mstill a pantheist.
Okay.
Uh, because I still believe in,we're all one.
Okay.
Yeah, we're all one.
And, We're, you can, when youget to a certain level, that
(10:59):
high spiritual level, I thinkyou're connected to that high
spirit and you become one with,uh, with nature universe.
And, you can perform miraclesand you have all wisdom and all
knowledge, but you have to getto that, that, that level.
So that's just, that's mythought about it.
(11:21):
And I, and I'm gonna, I'm gonnastick with the Pantheist.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
But what about you?
What are your thoughts on it?
Well, would still say that I'm apantheist with some conditions.
Uh, I do believe that we canhave a relationship with the
Supreme being, or, or God, uh,I, mm-hmm.
(11:41):
I look at the Diaz, I, I ask thequestion.
What happens at death?
If you're this, I mean, whathappens at death?
Do you have any explanation oryou don't believe in, Jesus or
you don't believe in a bunch ofthings?
So in your view, what happens atdeath?
Is there, is it over at thatpoint in time or is there more
after death?
(12:02):
Um, mm-hmm.
I feel that, I've had somepersonal experiences that, in my
own opinion has validated andreinforced my belief in God.
And the fact that God doesanswer prayers and is active in
our lives now, but I alsobelieve that we have to seek,
mm-hmm, our search for and tryto achieve a higher version of
(12:24):
our lives.
We have to become more likeJesus our Buddha, so that we can
become closer to God.
Now, I don't want to get intothe differences between western
religions and Easternphilosophies and this
discussion.
But we will dive deeper into thedifferences and the foundations
later.
(12:44):
My, my logical mind keeps mefrom believing everything that I
read in the Bible.
And I know that's a hard pill toswallow for some people to hear
that, but there's so manycontradictions and so,, I have a
hard time trying to say mybelief is based on the Bible.
I believe that our upbringing,which was mm-hmm Bible based,
uh, gave me a good base ofknowledge as I went out into the
(13:07):
world.
That base of knowledge mm-hmm.
Has kept me grounded and helpedme to be an empathetic
individual, empathetic toward,fellow humans and to understand
the value of life.
Now as I was sitting here sayingthis, okay, there's something
(13:28):
that I'm gonna say, and we'regonna talk about this for a
minute.
I think it's probably gonna blowour minds.
Um.
We both claim to be pantheist.
In other words, there's noseparation between God and the
universe.
No separation at all.
I mean, we think that God is youand me and everything in
between.
Mm-hmm.
Now, the strict definition ofChristianity, it's a more
(13:51):
traditional view of God, andthis God is a distinct
transcendent creator who,sustains the world but is not
identified with it.
In other words, God created theuniverse, but is still separate.
Now, Eastern philosophies,they're more in line with the
(14:12):
definition of Pantheists,Hinduism, TEUs, mm-hmm.
Buddhist, they're all consideredpantheists.
And as I think about what webelieve it sounds like mm-hmm.
We are more in line with some ofthese Eastern philosophies.
Uh mm-hmm.
And I believe that people don'tunderstand the difference.
(14:32):
Yeah, I, I agree.
I think we've evolved to thatlevel though because, uh, for
me, I can only speak for myselfgrowing up, uh, I always thought
that, maybe that we could becomeone with God, but I also also
saw God as this separate,entity.
And I always go back and say,when we were in church, there
was always that big picture ofJesus, of God.
(14:56):
Holding his hand out and Jesuswas there or something.
It was the, in, it was anindividual manlike per,
creature.
Creature may not be the rightword, but it was man-like, and
so we always thought of God asseparate, but also with us as
well.
So, I think that's how we,growing up that that was the way
(15:18):
our Christianity seemed to be.
But as we evolve.
I think we kind of evolved up tothat pantheist level where, God
is not a separate being.
You know what though?
Let me ask you this though.
I, this may be getting offsubject, but can God become a
separate being?
(15:39):
I don't believe that I, my, mybelief is this, that God created
everything and he is withineverything.
I mean, he's within me.
Mm-hmm.
He is within you.
Mm-hmm.
He is in, within the time, the,the distance between you and me,
everything that exists is God.
Yeah.
(16:00):
The idea of God being thisseparate entity.
Yeah.
Okay.
Looking down on us and makingsome decisions about, who's good
and who's bad or mm-hmm.
And, causing miracles to happen.
I, I have a hard time with that.
I have a hard time with that.
And that's what Yeah.
(16:20):
Our, our Christian upbringingtells us is that God sits up on
high in heaven, and Yeah.
Looks down.
Right.
But you said something rightthat, uh, made me think, and
what you said a few minutes agowas, uh, maybe we've evolved to
the next level of being apantheist.
So do you believe mm-hmm.
(16:40):
That there's different levelsof, Different levels mm-hmm.
Of progression to Yeah.
It sounds like we we're tryingto become enlightened.
If we look at our re Yeah.
From what you said, our religionis the basic Yeah.
That gets us started and then wemove up.
Right.
So, what's your thoughts?
I, I heard you say that and I'mlike, I wanted to get into that
a little bit more.
Right.
I do think we evolve, I think,even go back as far as the Old
(17:03):
Testament there, we, from the.
Testament.
There definitely was a separateGod in the Old Testament, but
then when you get to the NewTestament, when Jesus says the
kingdom of heaven is within you,that's a whole different, uh,
perspective from the OldTestament and what Jesus was
trying to, I think what Jesuswas teaching us is that, get to
(17:25):
that point where you realizethat God is within you and God
is everywhere.
From the Beatitudes where hesays, blessed outta the pure and
heart for they shall see God.
You know when you get to thathighest level where you're just
pure like a, like a baby, andJesus says, unless you become as
a child, you cannot enter thekingdom of heaven.
Unless you get to that purelevel, you don't see God
(17:45):
everywhere.
But I think we evolve.
We keep evolving, keep evolving,keep evolving till you
eventually see God everywhere.
And we know that God is withinus.
I mean, even Jesus said that,so, yeah, I think it's a matter,
matter of evolving.
I I even think when he says inmy father's house on many
mansions, I go to prepare.
I think the many mansions arethe different levels of
(18:07):
evolution.
Wow.
Of evolving.
Okay.
Yeah.
I I never thought of it thatway.
That's interesting.
You just put a, a bug in my headnow it's gonna bother me for the
next week or so to, think of itfrom that perspective.
Um, so.
You said something also,, itbeing a different God from the
(18:28):
Old Testament to the NewTestament.
So do you think it was, can youexplain that?
I it's the same God, I think,from the Old Testament To New
Testament.
But what happened?
Did God learn and change the wayhe felt?
Or was it that, man, changed,how did you explain, how would
you explain that?
(18:49):
Because there's a big differencebetween the Old Testament and
the New Testament.
Yes, it is.
Yes it is.
I think that, I think thewriters, they had to have
evolved, the writers of the OldTestament, I mean, how long ago
was it?
It was way before 2000 yearswhen, when we based that on the
birth of Jesus.
So, uh it's almost like.
(19:12):
It's almost like cavemen.
And I know that's maybe not agood analogy, but cavemen from
cavemen all the way up untilwhere we are now, it's a big
evolution.
And so I think, I think thewriters also evolved and to the
point where, uh, the Jesus, partof the New Testament, ah.
(19:36):
God.
That's hard though, man.
I mean, that's really hard.
And I just think, I think thewriting's evolved.
Okay.
So I, I, I'm gonna ask thisquestion.
So Uhhuh, we say that the Biblewas written by men that were
divinely inspired.
Yeah.
So, yep.
What's the difference betweenthe writers of the Bible, in the
(19:56):
Old Testament and New Testament,if they were divinely inspired
also.
Uh mm-hmm.
So there's a disconnect for meand, I hate to be the antagonist
and talk about the Bible, butI'm like, yeah, what, what's the
disconnect?
What happened, from the OldTestament, which seemed so hard,
and people were told that theycould kill people, and, stories
of a bear coming out of thewoods and and killing a bunch of
(20:19):
children.
Yeah.
Because they mocked one of thedisciples.
And then.
We have the New Testament that'sall together different.
Right.
So was the Old Testamentdivinely inspired men also?
Or, or what?
Yeah.
Right.
And see, and I just think thatthat's what, again, one of those
things where we just acceptedit, that they were divinely
inspired by, how do we know theywere divinely inspired by God?
(20:41):
Now we don't know that.
That's just what we, you'restarted to question the Bible
now, so Okay.
That's, but that's just what wewere taught, Right.
Yeah.
But in the Old Testament, ifsomebody, somebody, uh, what is
it gonna eye for?
An eye?
Yes.
I'm like, whoa.
And, and Jesus like, no, turnthe other cheek.
So that's a big, big.
Big evolution from an eye for aneye.
(21:01):
So who, I mean an eye for aneye.
Was that Godly?
Was that divinely inspired?
Uh, I don't know.
I don't, it doesn't sound likeit, but okay.
Maybe, maybe during that timebased on the way they lived.
Maybe it was, maybe it was.
Uh, but I just think we, I thinkwe evolved as a, as a human
(21:21):
race.
I think we evolved and.
Um, Jesus is the ultimate, theultimate, the ultimate level.
And he, and it's all about lovefor him.
And he's just like, turn theother cheek.
Okay.
So, but just think it's thatevolution, so that's to say we
are where we are right now,Right.
It's also been said that thereare other books of the Bible
(21:42):
that have been hidden.
So what's to say a thousandyears from now?
There's another, ultra NewTestament added to the Bible.
And we have progressed to thepoint that we can understand
that now.
Yeah.
I don't, Yeah.
Well, and and I got God, I gotthat.
Do any church, religion,whatever, Uhhuh, but we've man
(22:05):
decided what's gonna be in thatBible and what's not gonna be in
the Bible.
That's the truth.
So some of those, some of thoseother books like the Book of
Thomas, the Book of Mary, allthose other books.
Who's to said that, they're notaccurate, but it, uh, I don't
think it fit the narrative.
So they weren't included.
So what about this idea of beingdivinely inspired then?
(22:26):
Yeah.
Uh, woo.
I don't, you know what, Gary, Idon't think we'll ever know
until we get to that highestlevel, which may take lifetimes
here we go with this lifetimestuff, but Right.
But until we reach that highestlevel, I don't think we, we will
know.
Right.
And so we just got to go fromwhere we at today, right now,
(22:47):
and some, just keep trying toevolve.
Some people are more evolvedthan others, but Right.
We can't judge anybody.
Um, well, okay.
We just gotta go to where, fromwhere we at now.
Okay.
Alright.
Well, I ask these questions, uh,because I think it's important
to understand where our thinkingis.
Um, there are and mm-hmm.
(23:08):
Will be a lot of people thatwill say that it's still all
about faith.
Uh, but mm-hmm.
To tell you the truth, I don'tsee faith having anything to do
with someone who's a pantheist.
I don't.
God is president in everythingthat we do then.
Hmm.
Why do we need faith?
So what I'm doing is questioningwhat mm-hmm.
(23:31):
We believe.
When I say we, you and I, uh, weraised Christians, right.
But we believe that God is ineverything that we do.
Mm-hmm.
And we talked about this lastweek when we agreed that God has
a part in everything that we do.
So where does the faith come in?
If we believe that God is me andyou and everything in between,
uh, in my opinion, I think weshould be trying to connect with
(23:54):
God and that's, meditation,enlightenment as opposed to
praying to someone that'sseparate from us.
That's a hard Yeah.
Hard idea.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
That it is tough, but I, I.
Just based on, for me, I thinkwhen you meditate and if you're
able to connect to that spirit,um, and really listen, be silent
(24:18):
and really listen mm-hmm.
I think you'll hear God'swisdom.
So, uh, instead of praying toGod as a separate entity and
waiting to see what's gonnahappen.
You pray, you in your meditationwhere you're quiet and you hear
that still small voice givingyou wisdom, so you're not
waiting, but you're whateverwisdom God has given you, then
(24:40):
you act upon it.
Right.
Okay.
Well as we've learned here, thereality is we've been straddling
the fence between our Christianreligion and the idea of being a
pantheist.
And so, mm-hmm.
And I don't think we're gonnaanswer this question, but.
How do we reconcile this?
Or do we even need to try toreconcile it?
Short answer.
What do you think?
(25:02):
I think that, uh, everybody's ontheir own spiritual journey and
where you're at is where you'reat, and you just try to evolve
more.
Okay.
Simple.
Yeah, simple.
As we talk, we can go off in alldifferent types of directions,
so that's a simple answer.
Mm-hmm.
And one, I would accept that.
Yeah.
But I think we also need tothink about these other things.
(25:22):
I think that we do need to talkabout the origins of our
religion and the, uh, origins ofothers.
And we may find some answers aswe, begin to understand how our
religion others started, uhmm-hmm.
And if we can understand howthese started and why and how
they evolved, and we may be ableto, help ourselves to.
Strengthen our faith or start onthe path to enlightenment or
(25:44):
maybe a combination of both ofthese.
So, Hmm, that's a great idea.
That's something to really thinkabout and I'll look forward to.
How about, let's start, howabout we start that session next
week?
Okay.
I tell you what, I'll do alittle research and, we can talk
back and forth and,, we'll diswe'll discuss this, we'll
discuss this and try to startthis discussion next week.
(26:06):
Okay.
Sounds good to me.
Okay.
Well, Gary, now we come to ourfavorite part of the podcast.
We read a story from one of ourlisteners.
The stories tell us some trauma,our bad times in their lives,
and how they were able toovercome these hard times in
their lives.
We always said that one person'stold story in dealing with the
(26:26):
trials and tribulations and thelife can be the playbook for
someone else going through asimilar situation.
Okay, so this week, our storycomes from Jacob and Jacob
writes, I sat in the sterilehospital room listening to the
beeping of monitors.
The news had come as a shock.
(26:46):
I have.
Stage four prostate cancer, man.
Yeah, the doctor's words rattlearound in my mind, but I refuse
to hear'em.
I had been a non-believer formost of my life, but had
recently to Christianity.
I asked, why are you punishingme when I just turned my life
around?
I spent the past two yearsresearching and building my
(27:08):
faith, and now I beginquestioning if there really was
a God.
So as the chemotherapy sessionsbegan, I felt my body getting
weaker with each session, but Iclung to the scripture repeating
Isaiah 41, 2 10.
So do not fear for I am withyou.
Do not be dismayed for I am yourGod.
(27:29):
My wife Sarah became our rock ofsupport.
She prayed over me each night,wiping away the tears.
I tried to hide.
Jacob, you're not alone in this.
She whispered one e evening andholding my frail hands.
God walks with you.
Some nights were harder thanothers.
The pain was overwhelming me.
Exhaustion suffocated me anddoubt crept in.
(27:51):
But in those moments, I closedmy eyes and picture Jesus
sitting beside me, holding myhand, reminded me that healing
was not always about the body.
It was also about the soul.
So one evening do a particularlygrueling treatment.
I met a fellow patient namedDavid.
David had little belief inmiracles.
(28:12):
How can you still trust Godafter all?
This sounds like Job and hisfriends.
Yes, he does.
David asked bitterly, I smiledand said, because he has never
abandoned me.
Even now I feel his presence.
David laugh.
But listen.
As the days passed, I shared myfaith offering hope.
(28:32):
Where medicine faltered.
I told David of the peace thatcame from surrendering to God's
will no matter the outcome.
One afternoon I received newsthat stopped my heart.
The latest scan showed signs ofimprovement.
My body was responding and thecancer was retreating.
I tried hard as Sarah hugged metightly.
(28:54):
David sitting nearby, witnessedthe miracle unfold, and for the
first time I saw something newin his eyes, which was hope.
Weeks later, I walked outta thehospital as a survivor.
My body had been bat battered,but my faith had never wavered.
As I stepped out the hospitalinto the sunlight, I whispered a
prayer of gratitude.
(29:15):
A few days later, I went back tovisit my new friend David,
whoever become believer.
I stood beside him and He said,you didn't just fight cancer,
Jacob.
You fought out and you won.
David died a few weeks later,but he had found God in his
battle with cancer.
He died believing in God andknowing that his soul was saved.
(29:37):
Wow.
Thank you Jacob for sending.
Yeah.
Thank you Jacob, for sendingyour story.
We hope that, you have foundsome peace and purpose in your
life.
We believe that your lived lifeexperience is someone's playbook
for dealing with the storms intheir lives.
Your story will help someone tofind a strength to deal with the
storms in their lives.
(29:59):
This will close our podcast fortoday.
Thank you for joining us todayon Cirque De Soul.
We hope that it sparks some newthoughts about the purpose of
life.
If you would like to send ussome questions for discussion or
if you would like to send yourstory.
Please email these to CDUsoul44@gmail.com.
(30:21):
CDU Soul, C-I-R-Q-U-E-B-U-S-O-Ul444@gmail.com.
If you have found value intoday's episode, please share it
with someone who might benefitfrom it.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe so you don't miss any
future episodes.
And always remember yourspiritual journey is unique to
(30:41):
yours.
But you are never alone.
There's always gonna be othersto help you through the storms
in your life.
So take care of yourself, bekind to yourself and be kind to
the world around you.
And until the next time, have agreat day in paradise and to
happen right away.
(31:03):
But you sit so.
So as I myself and drop my.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soul.
We connected with the globe.
Yeah, that's mind, body, soultook some discipline, repetition
and some self-control.
We connected with the globe.
Said that's mind, body, soul.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's mind, body, soul.
Hey.
Yeah.
That's Mind, body, soul tooksome discipline, repetition and
some self-control.
Triple lies be the tribe yetthat's body, soul.
(00:28):
Welcome to Cirque the Soul, theonly uncut, unedited podcast
that is dedicated to helping youto find spiritual peace in your
life.
Kim, this is the last episode inour series of Is There a God?
Yeah, it's been great.
Over the past few weeks we havediscussed the question, is there
a God.
(00:49):
We've looked at this from theagnostic and the atheist
perspective, so today we'regonna visit this question from
the perspective of the deist andthe pantheist to review.
Number one, deist someone whobelieves in a God or supreme
being who created the universe,but does not intervene in its
(01:09):
affairs or in human life,relying on reason and
observation.
Pan is someone who believes thatthe universe, nature and reality
are identical to divinity or asuperior entity.
Meaning that everything is partof a single, all-encompassing
deity rather than a separatecreator.
(01:32):
This is gonna be fun and afascinating topic, Gary.
Yeah, you're right.
And, to start, let's go aheadand discuss the Daz point of
view and a couple of pointshere.
Okay.
Now the Diaz, they insist thatreligious truth should be
subject to the autonomy of humanreason rather than divine
revelation.
In other words, if you canreason and see a God, then
(01:56):
that's, that takes precedentover, the idea of this divine
revelation.
So they deny that the Bible wasthe reveal word of God, and they
reject scripture as a source ofreligious doctrine.
So what that means is they don'tbelieve that God listens to
prayers.
They also may or may not believein heaven or hell.
(02:19):
They don't believe in miracles,prophecies, angels, demons, they
don't believe in the divinelyinspired prophecies like the
Bible.
Now, some of the famous diss areThomas Jefferson.
This is gonna surprise you.
George Washington, BenjaminFranklin, Albert Einstein to
name a few.
They were all Christian Ds andthey didn't believe that Jesus
(02:42):
is the way to God.
That's hard to believe, isn'tit?
Now, I listed these individualsbecause they were also the
founders of our country, andthey believed that religion had
no place in government.
So what are your thoughts on theDiaz perspective?
Wow, that's a, that's prettytough.
I guess, I kinda understandwhere they're coming from a
(03:04):
little bit because, as far aslike reasoning and using
judgment about things, or commonsense about things or
scientists, scientific things, Imean, I get it.
Um.
That's what they base their,what they see.
That's what they bas it on.
And I guess, we've always talkedabout the past few weeks about
(03:25):
faith and uh, I don't think theycome from a place of faith.
They come from a place of, ofscientific reasoning.
Well, so it's, uh, yeah, if, Imean, if they come from that
point, I guess I understand, butI, it's just.
You know, the way we grew up,there's an element of faith in
it for me.
You're right.
(03:45):
Well, you know, let me justexplain a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
It says they do believe in aGod.
They just mm-hmm.
Uh, don't believe in some ofthose things that, talked about
you.
God doesn't listen to prayers.
They also may be, they don'tbelieve in heaven or hell.
So I, I don't in this case.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if faith is.
(04:09):
Faith is the right thing.
Okay, so if they believe in God,what is what?
What is, what do they believeGod's purpose is then?
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
God just made the heavens andearth, I mean, just made the
universe and that's it.
He's like, okay, that's it.
(04:29):
I don't know.
You know what?
That's a hard one.
That's a hard one because, yeah.
Well, I told you,, and I, spokeabout them being the, fathers of
our country.
I wonder if this has somethingto do with them saying that,
religion and, and the governmentshould be separate.
Government.
(04:50):
Say again?
Yeah, so be separate.
I mean, if they Yeah.
Yeah.
I, yeah, I, right.
If they believe that, God isthere, they believe in God, but
they don't believe in any of thethings that we, as, you know,
new Christians believe, then Ithink that would make sense in
why they would say that there'sa separation of, church and
(05:11):
state that they were avoidingreligious persecution.
But going back to the strictdefinition.
Uh, I, I'm not gonna questiontheir faith because obviously
they are Christians, theybelieve in God.
It's just that, um mm-hmm.
Some of the things that we asmodern Christians, uh, think
(05:32):
about heaven or hell, you know,God's answering the prayers.
They don't see that.
They don't see that at all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
So they said that they may ormay not believe in heaven or
hell, um.
I guess they can go either way.
Right?
I, I, I, I, I, I, I mean, I, soI understand why they want the
(05:56):
separation of, uh, of religionand government, uh, since they
don't believe that Godintervenes with, uh.
With what we do here, right?
It's so, so when we have agovernment, we make our own
rules and our own laws keep Godout of it.
This is man's rules and man'slaws we govern according to what
(06:17):
man, you know, says whatbelieves or, you know, the, or
the law.
Right.
So I guess from their point ofview, I guess I can see that.
Yep.
And you know what, I don't wantthis to become a, a, a political
thing, but I often hear peoplesay that, uh, you know, our
country's a Christian.
Based country.
Uh, in reality, if we know whatthese forefathers thought, I
(06:40):
don't know how anyone could cometo the conclusion that we're a
Christian based country.
So, yeah, I just think thatwe've, we've said it so long
that we just believe it.
Oh, yes.
Again, not trying to becomepolitical, but, it, it's hard
to, uh, it's hard to say that weare a Christian based country
(07:01):
when the forefathers were, Deesand didn't believe in all the
things that we believe in today.
So, but yeah, that being that.
Go ahead.
Let me say this though, even, inthe Bible when they were trying
to trick Jesus and they showedhim a, a picture of, uh, Caesar
on a coin and they asked, Jesus,what do you think about this?
(07:23):
And Jesus said, render thethings in Caesar and render the
things of God.
Of God.
It kinda almost sounded like adeist almost, It's like, well,
whatever, God.
Whatever a man is made downhere, Caesars on the coin or
whatever, that's fine, that'sfine.
But also written into God, thethings that of God, which I
don't know what he meant bythat.
I guess it could be, I don'tknow why, why you worship God, I
(07:47):
guess, but it kinda sound like aDes and what Jesus said almost.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
Since you said that.
Yeah.
Right.
It does sound like, mm-hmm.
Jesus was speaking as a deist.
Now, Yeah.
In my mind, that asks otherquestions.
I'm like, well, our modern dayChristians, what are, what's our
reli, what is our religion basedon as Christians, we hear things
(08:08):
like Jesus saying, that soundslike a Daz point of view.
What exactly is our religionbased on?
I don't know.
Yeah.
You know it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's,.
Kind of the, the teachings ofJesus.
I mean, Christianity is the,,belief in Jesus Christ.
(08:30):
So whatever Jesus Christ,preached and taught, I think
that's,, what Christianity is.
That's just what I alwaysbelieve.
Right?
Uh, and I would agree with you.
I would agree with you.
Yeah.
As I was doing the research andwe had spoke about this, I
didn't think we talked too muchabout the Diaz because it seems
pretty simple andstraightforward.
(08:52):
Uh, the, the, the twist in therefor me was that our founding
forefathers were all deist.
And I'm like, wow.
You know, the fact that, youknow, we think that our, our
government is based uponChristian values.
I'm like, well, yeah.
Uh, these guys, uh, didn'tbelieve a lot of the things that
we believe in today.
(09:12):
Right, right, right.
And, and, and, uh, we were kind,we, uh, we kind of heard that.
Right.
But I, yeah, but I think we hearmore about this Christian
nation, so, right.
Yeah.
We just go with it, so.
Yep.
And we're gonna leave that onethere.
Okay.
We'll leave that right there.
This, we may get into thistopic, later on down the road in
(09:33):
our podcast and future episodes,but, uh, I really didn't think
we, hit too much on that, but,so.
Let's skip.
Mm-hmm.
And talk about the pantheistbecause this is a little bit
more interesting and I thinkthere's gonna be a few
bombshells from this.
So, uh, you gave a briefdefinition, uh, but let's say it
in a different way.
(09:54):
Okay.
A pantheist believes that Godnature are one and the same, and
that everything in the universeis a mode or a part of God.
Now, given that de definition.
Let's review something that wespoke on from a few weeks ago, a
few weeks ago when we startedthese discussions.
We both claim to be pantheistnow after these past few weeks.
(10:18):
Mm-hmm.
Reviewing what an agnostic is,an atheist, and we talk about
theus and we're talking aboutpantheists.
Do you still consider yourselfto be a pantheist?
And if you do, why?
See, I, I want people tounderstand we're going through
and learning also.
So, so this is why I'm askingthat question.
Right?
So, do you still consideryourself to be a pantheist?
Yeah.
And why?
(10:39):
Uh, yeah.
I, I, I think so because, I'mstill a pantheist.
Okay.
Uh, because I still believe in,we're all one.
Okay.
Yeah, we're all one.
And, We're, you can, when youget to a certain level, that
(10:59):
high spiritual level, I thinkyou're connected to that high
spirit and you become one with,uh, with nature universe.
And, you can perform miraclesand you have all wisdom and all
knowledge, but you have to getto that, that, that level.
So that's just, that's mythought about it.
(11:21):
And I, and I'm gonna, I'm gonnastick with the Pantheist.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
But what about you?
What are your thoughts on it?
Well, would still say that I'm apantheist with some conditions.
Uh, I do believe that we canhave a relationship with the
Supreme being, or, or God, uh,I, mm-hmm.
(11:41):
I look at the Diaz, I, I ask thequestion.
What happens at death?
If you're this, I mean, whathappens at death?
Do you have any explanation oryou don't believe in, Jesus or
you don't believe in a bunch ofthings?
So in your view, what happens atdeath?
Is there, is it over at thatpoint in time or is there more
after death?
(12:02):
Um, mm-hmm.
I feel that, I've had somepersonal experiences that, in my
own opinion has validated andreinforced my belief in God.
And the fact that God doesanswer prayers and is active in
our lives now, but I alsobelieve that we have to seek,
mm-hmm, our search for and tryto achieve a higher version of
(12:24):
our lives.
We have to become more likeJesus our Buddha, so that we can
become closer to God.
Now, I don't want to get intothe differences between western
religions and Easternphilosophies and this
discussion.
But we will dive deeper into thedifferences and the foundations
later.
(12:44):
My, my logical mind keeps mefrom believing everything that I
read in the Bible.
And I know that's a hard pill toswallow for some people to hear
that, but there's so manycontradictions and so,, I have a
hard time trying to say mybelief is based on the Bible.
I believe that our upbringing,which was mm-hmm Bible based,
uh, gave me a good base ofknowledge as I went out into the
(13:07):
world.
That base of knowledge mm-hmm.
Has kept me grounded and helpedme to be an empathetic
individual, empathetic toward,fellow humans and to understand
the value of life.
Now as I was sitting here sayingthis, okay, there's something
(13:28):
that I'm gonna say, and we'regonna talk about this for a
minute.
I think it's probably gonna blowour minds.
Um.
We both claim to be pantheist.
In other words, there's noseparation between God and the
universe.
No separation at all.
I mean, we think that God is youand me and everything in
between.
Mm-hmm.
Now, the strict definition ofChristianity, it's a more
(13:51):
traditional view of God, andthis God is a distinct
transcendent creator who,sustains the world but is not
identified with it.
In other words, God created theuniverse, but is still separate.
Now, Eastern philosophies,they're more in line with the
(14:12):
definition of Pantheists,Hinduism, TEUs, mm-hmm.
Buddhist, they're all consideredpantheists.
And as I think about what webelieve it sounds like mm-hmm.
We are more in line with some ofthese Eastern philosophies.
Uh mm-hmm.
And I believe that people don'tunderstand the difference.
(14:32):
Yeah, I, I agree.
I think we've evolved to thatlevel though because, uh, for
me, I can only speak for myselfgrowing up, uh, I always thought
that, maybe that we could becomeone with God, but I also also
saw God as this separate,entity.
And I always go back and say,when we were in church, there
was always that big picture ofJesus, of God.
(14:56):
Holding his hand out and Jesuswas there or something.
It was the, in, it was anindividual manlike per,
creature.
Creature may not be the rightword, but it was man-like, and
so we always thought of God asseparate, but also with us as
well.
So, I think that's how we,growing up that that was the way
(15:18):
our Christianity seemed to be.
But as we evolve.
I think we kind of evolved up tothat pantheist level where, God
is not a separate being.
You know what though?
Let me ask you this though.
I, this may be getting offsubject, but can God become a
separate being?
(15:39):
I don't believe that I, my, mybelief is this, that God created
everything and he is withineverything.
I mean, he's within me.
Mm-hmm.
He is within you.
Mm-hmm.
He is in, within the time, the,the distance between you and me,
everything that exists is God.
Yeah.
(16:00):
The idea of God being thisseparate entity.
Yeah.
Okay.
Looking down on us and makingsome decisions about, who's good
and who's bad or mm-hmm.
And, causing miracles to happen.
I, I have a hard time with that.
I have a hard time with that.
And that's what Yeah.
(16:20):
Our, our Christian upbringingtells us is that God sits up on
high in heaven, and Yeah.
Looks down.
Right.
But you said something rightthat, uh, made me think, and
what you said a few minutes agowas, uh, maybe we've evolved to
the next level of being apantheist.
So do you believe mm-hmm.
(16:40):
That there's different levelsof, Different levels mm-hmm.
Of progression to Yeah.
It sounds like we we're tryingto become enlightened.
If we look at our re Yeah.
From what you said, our religionis the basic Yeah.
That gets us started and then wemove up.
Right.
So, what's your thoughts?
I, I heard you say that and I'mlike, I wanted to get into that
a little bit more.
Right.
I do think we evolve, I think,even go back as far as the Old
(17:03):
Testament there, we, from the.
Testament.
There definitely was a separateGod in the Old Testament, but
then when you get to the NewTestament, when Jesus says the
kingdom of heaven is within you,that's a whole different, uh,
perspective from the OldTestament and what Jesus was
trying to, I think what Jesuswas teaching us is that, get to
(17:25):
that point where you realizethat God is within you and God
is everywhere.
From the Beatitudes where hesays, blessed outta the pure and
heart for they shall see God.
You know when you get to thathighest level where you're just
pure like a, like a baby, andJesus says, unless you become as
a child, you cannot enter thekingdom of heaven.
Unless you get to that purelevel, you don't see God
(17:45):
everywhere.
But I think we evolve.
We keep evolving, keep evolving,keep evolving till you
eventually see God everywhere.
And we know that God is withinus.
I mean, even Jesus said that,so, yeah, I think it's a matter,
matter of evolving.
I I even think when he says inmy father's house on many
mansions, I go to prepare.
I think the many mansions arethe different levels of
(18:07):
evolution.
Wow.
Of evolving.
Okay.
Yeah.
I I never thought of it thatway.
That's interesting.
You just put a, a bug in my headnow it's gonna bother me for the
next week or so to, think of itfrom that perspective.
Um, so.
You said something also,, itbeing a different God from the
(18:28):
Old Testament to the NewTestament.
So do you think it was, can youexplain that?
I it's the same God, I think,from the Old Testament To New
Testament.
But what happened?
Did God learn and change the wayhe felt?
Or was it that, man, changed,how did you explain, how would
you explain that?
(18:49):
Because there's a big differencebetween the Old Testament and
the New Testament.
Yes, it is.
Yes it is.
I think that, I think thewriters, they had to have
evolved, the writers of the OldTestament, I mean, how long ago
was it?
It was way before 2000 yearswhen, when we based that on the
birth of Jesus.
So, uh it's almost like.
(19:12):
It's almost like cavemen.
And I know that's maybe not agood analogy, but cavemen from
cavemen all the way up untilwhere we are now, it's a big
evolution.
And so I think, I think thewriters also evolved and to the
point where, uh, the Jesus, partof the New Testament, ah.
(19:36):
God.
That's hard though, man.
I mean, that's really hard.
And I just think, I think thewriting's evolved.
Okay.
So I, I, I'm gonna ask thisquestion.
So Uhhuh, we say that the Biblewas written by men that were
divinely inspired.
Yeah.
So, yep.
What's the difference betweenthe writers of the Bible, in the
(19:56):
Old Testament and New Testament,if they were divinely inspired
also.
Uh mm-hmm.
So there's a disconnect for meand, I hate to be the antagonist
and talk about the Bible, butI'm like, yeah, what, what's the
disconnect?
What happened, from the OldTestament, which seemed so hard,
and people were told that theycould kill people, and, stories
of a bear coming out of thewoods and and killing a bunch of
(20:19):
children.
Yeah.
Because they mocked one of thedisciples.
And then.
We have the New Testament that'sall together different.
Right.
So was the Old Testamentdivinely inspired men also?
Or, or what?
Yeah.
Right.
And see, and I just think thatthat's what, again, one of those
things where we just acceptedit, that they were divinely
inspired by, how do we know theywere divinely inspired by God?
(20:41):
Now we don't know that.
That's just what we, you'restarted to question the Bible
now, so Okay.
That's, but that's just what wewere taught, Right.
Yeah.
But in the Old Testament, ifsomebody, somebody, uh, what is
it gonna eye for?
An eye?
Yes.
I'm like, whoa.
And, and Jesus like, no, turnthe other cheek.
So that's a big, big.
Big evolution from an eye for aneye.
(21:01):
So who, I mean an eye for aneye.
Was that Godly?
Was that divinely inspired?
Uh, I don't know.
I don't, it doesn't sound likeit, but okay.
Maybe, maybe during that timebased on the way they lived.
Maybe it was, maybe it was.
Uh, but I just think we, I thinkwe evolved as a, as a human
(21:21):
race.
I think we evolved and.
Um, Jesus is the ultimate, theultimate, the ultimate level.
And he, and it's all about lovefor him.
And he's just like, turn theother cheek.
Okay.
So, but just think it's thatevolution, so that's to say we
are where we are right now,Right.
It's also been said that thereare other books of the Bible
(21:42):
that have been hidden.
So what's to say a thousandyears from now?
There's another, ultra NewTestament added to the Bible.
And we have progressed to thepoint that we can understand
that now.
Yeah.
I don't, Yeah.
Well, and and I got God, I gotthat.
Do any church, religion,whatever, Uhhuh, but we've man
(22:05):
decided what's gonna be in thatBible and what's not gonna be in
the Bible.
That's the truth.
So some of those, some of thoseother books like the Book of
Thomas, the Book of Mary, allthose other books.
Who's to said that, they're notaccurate, but it, uh, I don't
think it fit the narrative.
So they weren't included.
So what about this idea of beingdivinely inspired then?
(22:26):
Yeah.
Uh, woo.
I don't, you know what, Gary, Idon't think we'll ever know
until we get to that highestlevel, which may take lifetimes
here we go with this lifetimestuff, but Right.
But until we reach that highestlevel, I don't think we, we will
know.
Right.
And so we just got to go fromwhere we at today, right now,
(22:47):
and some, just keep trying toevolve.
Some people are more evolvedthan others, but Right.
We can't judge anybody.
Um, well, okay.
We just gotta go to where, fromwhere we at now.
Okay.
Alright.
Well, I ask these questions, uh,because I think it's important
to understand where our thinkingis.
Um, there are and mm-hmm.
(23:08):
Will be a lot of people thatwill say that it's still all
about faith.
Uh, but mm-hmm.
To tell you the truth, I don'tsee faith having anything to do
with someone who's a pantheist.
I don't.
God is president in everythingthat we do then.
Hmm.
Why do we need faith?
So what I'm doing is questioningwhat mm-hmm.
(23:31):
We believe.
When I say we, you and I, uh, weraised Christians, right.
But we believe that God is ineverything that we do.
Mm-hmm.
And we talked about this lastweek when we agreed that God has
a part in everything that we do.
So where does the faith come in?
If we believe that God is me andyou and everything in between,
uh, in my opinion, I think weshould be trying to connect with
(23:54):
God and that's, meditation,enlightenment as opposed to
praying to someone that'sseparate from us.
That's a hard Yeah.
Hard idea.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
That it is tough, but I, I.
Just based on, for me, I thinkwhen you meditate and if you're
able to connect to that spirit,um, and really listen, be silent
(24:18):
and really listen mm-hmm.
I think you'll hear God'swisdom.
So, uh, instead of praying toGod as a separate entity and
waiting to see what's gonnahappen.
You pray, you in your meditationwhere you're quiet and you hear
that still small voice givingyou wisdom, so you're not
waiting, but you're whateverwisdom God has given you, then
(24:40):
you act upon it.
Right.
Okay.
Well as we've learned here, thereality is we've been straddling
the fence between our Christianreligion and the idea of being a
pantheist.
And so, mm-hmm.
And I don't think we're gonnaanswer this question, but.
How do we reconcile this?
Or do we even need to try toreconcile it?
Short answer.
What do you think?
(25:02):
I think that, uh, everybody's ontheir own spiritual journey and
where you're at is where you'reat, and you just try to evolve
more.
Okay.
Simple.
Yeah, simple.
As we talk, we can go off in alldifferent types of directions,
so that's a simple answer.
Mm-hmm.
And one, I would accept that.
Yeah.
But I think we also need tothink about these other things.
(25:22):
I think that we do need to talkabout the origins of our
religion and the, uh, origins ofothers.
And we may find some answers aswe, begin to understand how our
religion others started, uhmm-hmm.
And if we can understand howthese started and why and how
they evolved, and we may be ableto, help ourselves to.
Strengthen our faith or start onthe path to enlightenment or
(25:44):
maybe a combination of both ofthese.
So, Hmm, that's a great idea.
That's something to really thinkabout and I'll look forward to.
How about, let's start, howabout we start that session next
week?
Okay.
I tell you what, I'll do alittle research and, we can talk
back and forth and,, we'll diswe'll discuss this, we'll
discuss this and try to startthis discussion next week.
(26:06):
Okay.
Sounds good to me.
Okay.
Well, Gary, now we come to ourfavorite part of the podcast.
We read a story from one of ourlisteners.
The stories tell us some trauma,our bad times in their lives,
and how they were able toovercome these hard times in
their lives.
We always said that one person'stold story in dealing with the
(26:26):
trials and tribulations and thelife can be the playbook for
someone else going through asimilar situation.
Okay, so this week, our storycomes from Jacob and Jacob
writes, I sat in the sterilehospital room listening to the
beeping of monitors.
The news had come as a shock.
(26:46):
I have.
Stage four prostate cancer, man.
Yeah, the doctor's words rattlearound in my mind, but I refuse
to hear'em.
I had been a non-believer formost of my life, but had
recently to Christianity.
I asked, why are you punishingme when I just turned my life
around?
I spent the past two yearsresearching and building my
(27:08):
faith, and now I beginquestioning if there really was
a God.
So as the chemotherapy sessionsbegan, I felt my body getting
weaker with each session, but Iclung to the scripture repeating
Isaiah 41, 2 10.
So do not fear for I am withyou.
Do not be dismayed for I am yourGod.
(27:29):
My wife Sarah became our rock ofsupport.
She prayed over me each night,wiping away the tears.
I tried to hide.
Jacob, you're not alone in this.
She whispered one e evening andholding my frail hands.
God walks with you.
Some nights were harder thanothers.
The pain was overwhelming me.
Exhaustion suffocated me anddoubt crept in.
(27:51):
But in those moments, I closedmy eyes and picture Jesus
sitting beside me, holding myhand, reminded me that healing
was not always about the body.
It was also about the soul.
So one evening do a particularlygrueling treatment.
I met a fellow patient namedDavid.
David had little belief inmiracles.
(28:12):
How can you still trust Godafter all?
This sounds like Job and hisfriends.
Yes, he does.
David asked bitterly, I smiledand said, because he has never
abandoned me.
Even now I feel his presence.
David laugh.
But listen.
As the days passed, I shared myfaith offering hope.
(28:32):
Where medicine faltered.
I told David of the peace thatcame from surrendering to God's
will no matter the outcome.
One afternoon I received newsthat stopped my heart.
The latest scan showed signs ofimprovement.
My body was responding and thecancer was retreating.
I tried hard as Sarah hugged metightly.
(28:54):
David sitting nearby, witnessedthe miracle unfold, and for the
first time I saw something newin his eyes, which was hope.
Weeks later, I walked outta thehospital as a survivor.
My body had been bat battered,but my faith had never wavered.
As I stepped out the hospitalinto the sunlight, I whispered a
prayer of gratitude.
(29:15):
A few days later, I went back tovisit my new friend David,
whoever become believer.
I stood beside him and He said,you didn't just fight cancer,
Jacob.
You fought out and you won.
David died a few weeks later,but he had found God in his
battle with cancer.
He died believing in God andknowing that his soul was saved.
(29:37):
Wow.
Thank you Jacob for sending.
Yeah.
Thank you Jacob, for sendingyour story.
We hope that, you have foundsome peace and purpose in your
life.
We believe that your lived lifeexperience is someone's playbook
for dealing with the storms intheir lives.
Your story will help someone tofind a strength to deal with the
storms in their lives.
(29:59):
This will close our podcast fortoday.
Thank you for joining us todayon Cirque De Soul.
We hope that it sparks some newthoughts about the purpose of
life.
If you would like to send ussome questions for discussion or
if you would like to send yourstory.
Please email these to CDUsoul44@gmail.com.
(30:21):
CDU Soul, C-I-R-Q-U-E-B-U-S-O-Ul444@gmail.com.
If you have found value intoday's episode, please share it
with someone who might benefitfrom it.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe so you don't miss any
future episodes.
And always remember yourspiritual journey is unique to
(30:41):
yours.
But you are never alone.
There's always gonna be othersto help you through the storms
in your life.
So take care of yourself, bekind to yourself and be kind to
the world around you.
And until the next time, have agreat day in paradise and to
happen right away.
(31:03):
But you sit so.
So as I myself and drop my.
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