From Shame to Sacred: Reclaiming the Body as a Vessel of Divinity

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Music. Welcome to embodying ascension, where the

(00:04):
metaphysical meets the physicaland heaven breathes through
earth. I am your host. Amanda,Joy Loveland, Oracle, midwife
for the New Earth and keeper ofremembrance. This is not just a
podcast. It is a livingtransmission, a space to awaken
the Christ codes within yourvery cells, to embody the sacred

(00:25):
union of divine feminine anddivine masculine, to reclaim
your sovereignty as a livingvessel of God. Here we transcend
death, awaken life, and rememberthat the Second Coming is not a
distant promise. It is therising of your own sacred self
through raw, real and holyconversations, we weave new

(00:46):
timelines, new worlds and newways of being. You are not
becoming something new. You areremembering who you have always
been. Welcome home. Welcome toembodying ascension. You Hi.
Well, welcome. Today I get tosit with the beautiful Holly,

(01:08):
Henry. If you follow me much,you see Holly quite often on my
stories and my posts and things,because she's just one of my
dearest people, one of mypartners in this life. And
today, we really don't know whatwe're going to be talking about,
but I have a feeling it's goingto be juicy. Oh, we recently

(01:30):
have been moving through somediscomfort, as is seems to be
the common theme lately. Wouldyou agree? Yeah,
oh, just working through, Ithink, just continuing to clean
out, there's I was thinkingtoday, you know, if we really do

(01:53):
want to come to a peaceful leveland where we are in the world,
we are not at peace right now,but we choose to see peace.
Why do you think we're not atpeace right now?
Well, just politically andaround the world, I hardly watch

(02:13):
the news, but I hear from otherpeople, yeah, just because the
news is focuses on the dramaticof the negative, and I believe
that it is my position to holdhope and to hold love and to
hold positive vibe, becausethat's what we want to bring in.

(02:34):
That's what we are bringing in.
And really, I was thinkingtoday, really the world that I
see is in such beauty and loveand peace. So the gap to get
there, where there, there'sabundance for everyone and food
and comfort safety, there isquite a gap. So of course, we'll

(02:58):
continue to move and move andmove and move until we get to
the spot which I see, which isa place where
we are self aware, where each ofus hears our own voice, where

(03:21):
our children feel safe, whereeven our educational system is
for their is just joyfulthat we get to that our
relationships are Our full,honest, authentic, that we get
to be our authentic selves, inour personal relationships, just

(03:44):
everything is is in itsabundance of joy, love. And you
know, this is a we are living ahuman experience too, but to
have itto where, even politically,

(04:06):
where wethe where we feel like it's a
safe place to be.
So let's take, let's talk aboutour bodies for a second, because
that seems to be somethingthat's been up in our
conversations, and even with theembodiment of the relationship

(04:28):
that we have with our soulselves in this physical body, or
the relationship we have, forsome reason, money and body,
like the embodiment, has beengoing tandem for me. I think you
and I were talking about this towhere you know, you think of the
money aspect and God there atwar, not at war. But there are
opposites in the way that we'vebeen so conditioned, right?

(04:49):
Money is the root of all evil.
God is obviously godliness. Andyet, if, if we are in our God
Selves and moving towards thatway, then money is, you know, an
opposing factor to. That thesame thing with our physical
bodies. It's like we've beentaught. You know, our bodies are
the natural enemy. You know thenatural man is an enemy to God,
and yet our soul, our GodSelves, are inhabiting this body

(05:11):
and how to create, like thesymbiotic relationship. And you
were talking about this bookthat you were listening to that
it was bothering you? Do youwant to share a little bit about
that? I was just speaking thingsthat I've never heard before. I
mean, I have heard bodies talksince over 20 years being a

(05:34):
massage therapist. Then all whenI'm working on a body, then it
will start talking to be andeven each every cell seems to
have a voice. So this podcastwas talking about how it just
talked like how the body was soseparate. Then, I guess, would

(05:57):
you call it the soul? I don'tknow that. Then the Spirit and
we come into this body like aseparate entity. And it did kind
of freak me out to think that wewere overtaking this body
in a way. Yeah,I haven't listened to the whole
podcast, so I don't know whatthe end result, what, what they

(06:19):
were coming to,wasn't he hypnotherapist, and he
was hypnotherapist, James withwith people, and what their
experiences were before theycame into this physical.
Yeah, it was again, I didn'tfinish it, but I think it was
called life, life between life.
Lives between life.

(06:45):
What it made me think of is howwhich I in my own life. I feel
like it's true, where we becomepartners with our body and where
we we when we honor our body,really, when I hear my body,
anything in my body, even when Igot cancer, it was so loving to

(07:06):
me, every every, all the energyand everything that it spoke, it
was like so dedicated for my toknow that I was love, that it
was bringing me to that spotthat I would note that I was
love. So it gave me a greatappreciation for that friendship

(07:32):
that I had with my body. So thatwas just a different aspect of
of coming in and and kind of aforeign two foreign objects
coming together. I don't know II need to learn more about that,
because it was a littleunnerving to me
when I like and I was tellingyou before this podcast, I like

(07:56):
having conversations of in theunknown, even even though we
don't necessarily have theanswers, but we're kind of in
the curiosity of, Hey, what isthis and and why is this coming
up, and what is possible?
Because I don't know thatanybody really, truly has the
definitive answers. I thinkwe're always in constant and
continual learning. And sothat's partly why I wanted to
bring this topic up, because itis so interesting. And I know,

(08:18):
you know, when you were sharingthat, I was thinking about the
book the host, by StephanieMeyer. If you guys have heard of
that, I think it's actually amovie too, but it just talks
about, yeah, that there is thishost that comes in, or the
body's the host, and thenthere's something else that
comes in, and it's somewhat of aforeign entity. And in some
ways, that is what we'reexperiencing. And I, I know for

(08:39):
me, and I would, I would imagineyou've been the same, but as
I've gotten more in my body andmore at peace and more like
connected, like I when I'mreally connected to my body and
I'm I feel like I am in goodrelationship with food and like
working out, and like when wedance, and we're at ecstatic
dance and we're moving, it'ssome of the most satisfying
places for me, and so enjoy andso in fulfillment. When I do

(09:02):
have that connection with thebody, it seems like there's
definitely more flow in general,right? Everything in my life
then starts to flow. But it'slike when we get into those
places where we're like, wait aminute, and we feel like out of
body or a little bitdisconnected, everything feels a
little bit jankier. Yeah. So itis interesting to to witness and
and my belief, and I thinkyours, is the same as like,

(09:22):
Okay, how do we get into this,this co creation energy with our
physical bodies and theembodiment of the soul and form
and and bring in the god, thisgod aspect that wants to be
experienced through thephysical, physical literal of
like the emotions and theyumminess and the pleasure and
And the depths of all the thingsthat we get to experience. It is
such an interesting you know, wehave a brain, and then we have a

(09:47):
brain in the heart, and then wehave a brain in the gut, and
then we have this soul that'sinhabiting all of it and trying
to figure out how to be in unionwith it all. Be at peace with it
all. Be in. That co creation,that lover energy, with the
body.
It's quite a lot going on all atonce. A lot of voices going on

(10:09):
at once with our thoughts, andthen when the body comes in and
and its thoughts. And you know,even when I sat with gang
mirror, who is awake, she's selfin her self awareness did not

(10:31):
have an answer. And the other Iwould say, gurus that I listen
to, they don't have an answereither. In regard an answer to
one in where, how everythingflows together, how everything
comes together, and even exactlywhy, why we are wanting to
experience this, this experiencein the body. Because I think, I

(10:55):
think in, I don't know for sure,but it seems like that this
experience in the body is quiteintense. In in feeling like even
eating food and the density ofall, yeah, and bringing God in
form in the body is quite, itseems like quite, I don't want

(11:19):
to say task, but quite anexperience in
how it feels, for sure,I remember, and I don't know
where I learned this from, and Ido feel like it's true, though
it's like in this incarnation,in this human form, it is a lot
more dense, but we learn quickerin it, because the density will
sure push you to asking theQuestions. If everything was

(11:40):
quite easy, we wouldn't beasking the questions, or
wouldn't, wouldn't be seeking.
And I didn't know what,though I do. We know that when
we learn in joy in the body,then it moves much quicker.
Yeah, one thing out toplay, yeah, yeah. And I 100%
agree, and that's something youhave talked about often, is, can

(12:01):
we learn as much in love and inhappiness, and I hear
more, and that it will go, itwill be faster if we choose,
right? So a lot of this, don'tyou think it's just the
programming that we've been soconditioned to that things have
to be hard and they have to bein pain and we have to suffer,
and even in the healing arena,this space like you witness so

(12:21):
many people like in the immensesuffering of being able to move
through whatever it is thatwants to be cleared, instead of
allowing it to be quicker,allowing it to be easier. But
our, I mean our when we'retalking even about the world and
the warring and the things thatare always attacking of
ourselves, we have been so inconditioned to it needing to be
hard.
It is what we have chosen, evenas a collective, that again,

(12:46):
we're not choosing anymore,right? We're choosing to learn
more through the divine. We'rechoosing to learn in a different
way. And so just I say, justexpect it. Just expect life to
move through the hard thingsquicker and that this life will

(13:09):
be more joyful. It's fun to seewhat's showing up. I know in my
life that has been true, thatthings move through so much
quicker. Even when I I watchpeople that have work to do,
that the work goes through somuch quicker, and they move so

(13:31):
much quicker. It's liketechnology, yeah, everything is
quicker.
I agree I and I feel like whenwe hold ourselves more in that
belief that it can be quick,that it can move with ease, with
grace, with beauty, that it doesshift faster. I'll notice with
clients that when things haveshifted in that space of the
ease, there's always that, likeyou can see them their energy

(13:51):
wanting to but wait, but wait.
Doesn't have to be harder,doesn't it? Don't I have to
continue in the pain in order toactually really clear this. And
it is such a rooted belief inour system that I agree, like
we're asking to as a collectiveunwind that programming that is
so deep in our somatics, in thephysical body. And you, I
wasn't, I'm like, Huh? I guessI'm going to bring those up in a

(14:17):
recent ceremony we were in. Youwere channeling and channeled
some really beautiful piecesabout the body, about how what's
done. Do you remember whatyou're saying about what's done
in thebody? Oh, just it's, we've heard
it time and time before what isdone in the body gets to be
healed in the body. I guess youwould say, gets to be corrected

(14:42):
in the body. I don't know, a newvision brought into the body. If
the if the body hassome sort of you. What
I can't the trauma, yeah. Thenit the body. Like, even the

(15:04):
book, the body holds the thescore, the body holds the
memories, yeah, yeah. So we getto move even though we get to
move those through the body. Itdoesn't have to be painful. It
doesn't. We don't have to gothrough like we went through the
first timeor the second or not just been

(15:26):
the second.
Yeah. We can choose easier.
Yeah.
Well, it hit me today that in inafter our conversation, just
filling into a lot of thesepieces and then receiving some
dynamics. It's you know when andwhen we have learning, we'll
have it at one level, and thenanother, and then another, and

(15:47):
then something just finallyclicks in. And it was
interesting for me to justreally see that on the soul
level, like there's nothingbroken, there's nothing like we
are complete and whole in ourknowing, and then we come from
that space into this physicalbody, and in the physical body
is holding these memories passeddown through lineage, whatever
you know, in the collective, butit's separate from the soul

(16:10):
self. And I think that that'ssuch an interesting thing to
remember when we're talkingabout all the noise. It's almost
like if our body's like thechild and our soul self are
knowing as the parent of, like,calming the interstate of, no,
this is what we're doing thistime. Oh, that's not true. Okay,
you want to feel this, thenlet's go feel that. Because
there is something so deliciousabout feeling the depths of some

(16:32):
of these emotions that want tobe felt and moved through, you
know, like taking the breath,yeah.
Well, that's the humanexperience, and we are here
having the human experience,right? So we are wanting the
human experience, or we wouldn'tbe here.
And yet to resist, we resist thehuman experience often, and
we're like, Ah, fuck it. I wantout. I want out.

(16:55):
But we chose it, right? We'rechoosing it
that I realized that I wasavoiding the human experience.
That's why I wanted so called anenlightened life, is I thought
that that would get me out ofthe human experience. I didn't
realize that until about a yearago, and then it was, oh, that's

(17:20):
why I'm here, to have this,these emotions and and the
pleasure and pain and right,and all of that. Yeah,
we're so funny, and all thesethings are so simple. When we
break it down, they're sosimple. And we just like to over
complicate things. And to whatwe were saying, there is a lot

(17:42):
of complications or lots ofnoise that's going on. And it is
that key of, how do we staycenter? How do we get into our
knowing? How do we get into thecenter of our being, to stay in
the calm in the tornado, calm inthe storm. And it is a practice
without, I mean, it is, forsure, a practice
always going Center.

(18:04):
I'm seeing more and more lately.
It's always been, I mean,knowing this, but knowing it
more that when anything comes upself doubt or anything, it's
just an invitation, right? Justan invitation to go back center.
It isn't anything. There'snothing wrong. There's nothing

(18:28):
even, there's nothing really,even to do is just to go in
center and feel that being thatwe are, yeah,
and I was just working with aclient today that was similar in
every time something comes up, Ithink we have a tendency to get
stuck in the whatever the pieceis that's coming up, and the

(18:51):
fear in the doubt in the themurkiness of it, and starting to
get stuck in it. And I do this,I think we all do to a point,
instead of seeing it as, oh,here's a beautiful piece coming
up that's asking to be releasedso I can be more in the physical
form, with my knowing and soseeing it as like these layers

(19:12):
that are asking to be peeledback every time something comes
in, so that I can be more in mywholeness, in the physical body,
and removing the programs, thebeliefs, the limiting emotions,
limit, you know, all thosepieces that prohibit us from
having a God centered, Goddesscentered, whatever you want to
call itLife. And really, when we
finally let go, it's like, oh,that was easy, that it's the

(19:33):
resistance before, when we don'tlet go, that I find challenging.
It's when, when I finallyremember, Oh, this is just an
invitation to remember that Iam, and then just go into that
centerwhen you just, you really did a

(19:55):
beautiful guided meditation thatI that. Be recorded here that
I'll make sure and put in thelink in the show notes, thank
you. That does go back into thatI am space of remembering. And I
remember, I can't remember thephrase that you said, Oh, where
love lives here. And it wasthrough the spinal cord. And I
remember listening to it, andyou could just feel it ignite.

(20:17):
And again, in the simpleness,it's like everything comes down
to this love play. Let that lovespace within us. That's
what I think, is that that's weare love itself.
I would agree. I mean, if welook at God in the the true
godness and source energy, it islove, the unconditional love. So

(20:40):
are we just going through lifeexperiencing everything that's
not lovewho we are not? Yeah, that's
what I see we have gotten. We'vegot to experience who we are,
not to come back to therealization of oh, we are, that
we are love itself,absolutely, absolutely,

(21:04):
oh, these pieces arereally beautiful. And I
when we do get onto the otherside, when we do allow for it to
move through easy and we do getto those spaces that feel like
we can take a breath, it is funto be able to look back and go,
Oh, would I have it any otherway, but I have chosen this any
other way. And it's like, evenin the hard things, as you look

(21:27):
back in your life, becauseyou've had some challenging
pieces, would you have had itany other way?
I I say, I don't know for sure,and I don't think so. Yeah,
well, when I can, when I can sitback and look at the whole big
picture, and because really, myexperiences in this life brought

(21:53):
me to a place where myrelationship with the divine is
so deep that is, and my giftswere opened up that I don't
think that I would have, thatthey wouldn't be so deep. So in
that way, Ihave so much gratitude. So I was

(22:20):
trying to fill into if I shouldbring up any of your past or
not, and I probably won't,because this is Holly and I are
both working. We're in a grouptogether that is absolutely
amazing, with beautiful women,mostly women. There's a few men,
yeah, and part of what we'redoing, we have two big things
that are coming up. We'refilming next month for a show

(22:43):
called Legacy makers, where wehave to in our onboarding forms
we get to we're being askedquestions from like our like
young youth to like adolescentsto then our,
our whole life from beginningto now, yeah, and what we want
to move forward in, yeah,and stating what our legacy is
and who we are and what we'recreating. And it's been an

(23:04):
interesting space, and this isone that I visited many times
ever since I wrote my first bookof when we tell our stories and
we kind of anchor them, how muchdoes it keep it still alive,
versus this was part of who andwhat I experienced that has led
to this beautiful part of whereI'm at now. And it's always this
really interesting fine line of,how do I share this to be like,

(23:26):
Okay, this is my humanness of Iwent through these experiences
like you with abuse like that'sbeen pretty horrific, that when
people know your story, it islike, Oh my gosh. How do you
hold so much love witheverything that you've
experienced and creates thishumanity to witnessing You and
what you're doing now, and yourgifts and your beauty and your

(23:48):
love. But again, it is like thatinteresting place of allowing us
to share whatever feels toshare, allowing us to be seen in
it, having a voice in thisspace, but then also really
anchoring in who we are now andwhere we're wanting to go and
what impact we're wanting tohave on humanity. Because we're
not here to play small, althoughsometimes we want to just play

(24:10):
small. Thathas been my wanting to play
small and hide in my cave,in your bedroom, yeah, close
the door, pull the blankets overyour head. I'm good. I'm fine,
yeah. And yet we have, and manyof us have this soul, call this
soul, push of and you're here todo these things. And I do find

(24:32):
that if we ignore that soul,that soul's call, it's like life
gets harder, even though it'shard to this is challenging,
too, as we're moving throughthis, like, the upper limits. I
mean, I feel like in our lives,in my life, it's like, I've hit
an upper limit, and then I hitan upper limit, and then you're
like, there's another one andanother one. Oh my gosh, this

(24:52):
one's challenging. Inupper limits, it's what you
believe that you can have, orwhat you believe life will
breathe. Thing or like to thelimit. Like love in a
relationship, I can have love tothis limit, but I can have no
more so in the upper limits atthe same time. Isn't it
beautiful? Because what what Ifind when I hit that upper limit

(25:16):
and then move through it. It'sit. It was a lie, oh yeah,
because of who we are, thedivine right to be loved is so
beautiful, and it's so freeingto come into that knowing, when
finally we come into the knowingof, oh no, that was just an

(25:39):
upper limit, right? That hadnothing to do with what the
truthis. One, there's always massive
resistance, because we arehitting our edges. We're hitting
that ceiling that we've createdin our belief system, in our
comfort zone, yes, socomfortable. And there's massive
resistance, and then we breakthrough. And it's like, again, I

(26:00):
keep saying the breath, becausethat's something that we've
talked about. Michelle and Ihave been talking about this.
It is a breath of fresh air.
Yes, yeah, like,I can breathe more. It's
cleaner, it's clearer, it's moreexpansive. There's more fun,
there's more beauty, there'smore play, there's more
abundance. But it is often inanything in life, like you're

(26:21):
talking about withrelationships, a lot of times
we'll start self sabotaging.
That would be with money tomoney business. What is the
limit? What can we ask? Sowe'll start creating. And I
noticed that in I guess I'msharing this in my last
marriage, we got to a point towhere we were doing really well
financially. In our family life,we were doing really well. Our

(26:45):
personal connection startedshifting a little bit, and then
I noticed in his patterns, it'slike he had to go dredge up
things to kind of create this,you know, sabotage and sabotage
our relationship. And it's allbeautiful now, but it is
interesting how we do that,because we want to stay in our
comfort zone. And it's that oldphrase that everyone's heard,
that we would rather be in afamiliar hell or an unfamiliar

(27:07):
heaven. And it is sofascinating, again, in the human
form that will do that, but oursoul self, our God Self, knows,
hey, keep going like if we getstill enough and we get quiet
enough, and I think that's oneof the keys, as we're talking
about this is, well, how do wemove through quicker? And it is
to get quiet. It is to slowthings down, especially when

(27:28):
things feel chaotic, mentally,emotionally or literal,
literally in our in our world,to find space, to slow down. And
I'll notice, like, all of asudden, behind, get behind cars,
like even today, like with ourdynamic training at this
podcast, it's like it was,there's all these little
technical difficulties just toencourage the slowdown. So I'll
notice, for me, things in myexternal world that are like,

(27:50):
hey, could just slow down for aminute? And I feel like that is
definitely one of the keys ofcan you get quiet and allow for
space to come in because it isin the unknown, or in the places
in between where it's like, oh,then this comes in. Oh, this
piece moves. Oh, my gosh, thisthing came in that I had no idea
that was even possible, comes inand helps us moving through the

(28:13):
dynamics that feel sticky.
It is the unknown that we areasking for,
right? Yeah. We keep repeating,right. We
ask for the unknown, we ask forthe unknown, we ask for the
unknown, and then when theunknown is at our door, we're
like, um, I don't know if I wantto let it in. Like, that's what

(28:34):
exactly we have been asking for,yeah,
because we're asking for a worldthat we've never experienced.
So, yeah, it's like we'recreating pathways too that have
never been walked. They haven'tbeen forged by another. We're
creating new pathways. We'rehaving to cut down the trees and
create the path. And we'reagain. So use of following

(28:54):
someone else's footsteps,whether it's in a religious
construct, with the prophets orthe religious leaders, or it's
with gurus and healers or orpsychics. Hey, tell me what to
do, because it's so easy.
Versus, hey, this actually is aharder path to trust
ourselves. Oh, my goodness,yeah,
I think at first, but then astime goes on to I think to

(29:19):
follow anybody else's voice. Itis unbearable. It's painful.
Yeah,and we had done a, I apologize
for those watching. I haveallergies that are just
heightened right now, so I keepblowing my nose anyway. We were
we had done an Instagram liveyesterday because we were having
a beautiful conversation aboutthis, that often, this path that

(29:40):
many of us feel called to, oflike, if I listen to and if I
follow this part that I feellike I'm here to do, I will be
crucified. I will be killed. Iwill be alone. That is something
massively that I think we allhave faced that fear of. If I
actually choose me and choose myknowing, I won't have anyone

(30:02):
around me. And yet, you saidsomething so beautiful on the
call that's like, All right, wegotta, we gotta jump on. There
was more in when we listen toour knowing,
then we are in the oneness ofall and then we are in the
oneness of our knowing, which isnever alone, right? Because we
when we are in our centeredself, we are in our knowing

(30:28):
right and in in knowing that weare full that that there is
nothing wrong with us, thatthere is total abundance in in
love, in even in equality, inthere's no one below. There's no
one lagging behind. We're notlagging behind. There's we are

(30:52):
in our worth. We are in ourvalue. We are in our love. So
even in that that isn't a placethat feels it that is it is not
in aloneness. It is in with theknowing that we are part of the
Divine. Yeah, andof course, we would be here to

(31:12):
do the things that our soulcalls to do, and of course we'd
be supported in it. And we dohave a history, if it's accurate
in the way that it's been told,ripe with individuals that have
listened to God, listened towhatever their higher self is,
and they were literally, theywere killed, they were
crucified. And I, in my beliefsystem, I question everything.

(31:35):
Is it Marcus Aurelius, thatsays, whoever wins the wars
rewrite or writes history andrewrites history, and so it, you
know, it is that dynamic of, Idon't care what story we've been
told, I think we should questionit all. And of course, there's
truth in all things, and maybethere's also another truth
that's possible. Were theyactually killed? You know, who

(31:59):
knows?
Well, even if they were, what isit now? What is it to do now?
Right? And we have it. We are ina different environment,
right? It's like closing thedoors to the past, where
we are not crucified. I thinkthat has still, there's a lot of

(32:24):
judgment in having but eveneverywhere, people have a voice,
and they're all different. Solike never before, right,
right. Thank goodness for that.
I think it's so beautiful, evenin the chaos or the noise of it
all, it is really beautiful thatpeople do feel like, even though

(32:46):
it's scary to have more of avoice to shout it, some people
are more aggressive. Some peopleare more Oh, without question,
it's still scary, and somepeople are more aggressive in
that than others, and it's likethat pendulum swing of being
quiet for so long, of feelingrepressed, or feeling whatever
it is, or having the beliefsystems that we do that then all

(33:06):
of a sudden it's like, now I cannow I can talk, so I'm going to
scream and have that polaropposite until it comes back
into center,until we come into balance.
Yeah, yeah. That couldbe, I can see that in some
areas, that's what we are doing.
We're screaming, yeah,oh, for sure. I, you know, we've

(33:28):
that was one of the things thatwas so interesting when I was
writing the leaving religionbook, the threads of light,
seeing how people go from, youknow, we're born on the
triangle, essentially, peoplewho are born in religion, you
know, the victim, perpetrator,you know, there's this whole
dynamic, and they just shiftroles on that triangle. So now
all of a sudden, they're therescuer, and they feel like they

(33:49):
need to, they need to. They needto scream out and say how wrong
everything is. And it'sinteresting, again, with just
the constructs of when we becomemore conscious and more aware
and recognize that we're justplaying a part in the system
that has been going for so long.
And then we choose different,like we step out of that
triangle and choose out of thatdisempowered state and move more

(34:12):
into that centered spot, likeyou're saying with all right,
when I come into my knowingeveryone, everyone's choosing
what they feel is in alignmentfor them. And who am I to tell
them they should be doinganything different and coming
more from that love space, andthen just moving from there into
however it feels to move, butnot from a I'm gonna rescue you.

(34:32):
And ah, you know, I thinkto come into that space, it does
take self awareness to knowabsolutely where to know where I
am at, because if I don't knowwhere I am at, then to me, it
seems like when I don't knowwhere I am at, then I think
outside, oh, you should bethere, you should be there, you

(34:52):
should be there. But actually,when I am centered and and self
aware, then I know. That I'mwhere I'm supposed to be, and so
if I am where I'm supposed tobe, always, then they are where
they're supposed to be, and theyare where they're supposed to
be. So it does give a grace anda mercy, because you've first

(35:14):
given it to yourself too. Of Oh,this is in its perfection, and I
am where I'm supposed to be.
Yeah, I love and that's such abeautiful perspective. And as
much more loving and more and wekeep saying God, but more God,
in God's selves, in our in ourknowing of everyone is exactly

(35:37):
where they should be, andwhatever level they're choosing
to play at in the whole of allof it is perfect. It creates the
veracity in the the contrast inthis
play. You know what? What I liketo know too is there's no half
do's in even the role that weare playing, there's no half

(35:59):
do's that.
It's just even so in a way, youcan't do it wrong, but if we It
makes for a much betterexperience, in my view, a much
better life. If we do come fromour hearts, if we do come from

(36:22):
that authentic self,Bless you. Bless you. Oh, thank
you. Oh, my goodness. One ofthese days, maybe I'll figure
out how to get rid of theseallergies. Oh, my gosh, um,
absolutely with everything thatyou're saying. And I had a
thought with that, and now, ofcourse, it left with my sneezes,
but I couldn't agree more. Andthe sun is so on your face. Is

(36:46):
it driving you nuts?
It's all right, I'll just leanback a little bit, and then
it's gonna pull the mic towardsyou.
It is.
I feel so grateful that in myarenas and in the circles that I

(37:10):
get to play with, that we're alllike minded, that the
conversations that I get to haveare with individuals that we're
all sharing similarities in howwe want to move in the
mechanisms like us, you know,I'm a cog, you're a cog. And
we're all kind of in this samevibration, if you will, but in
this uniqueness. And I forget,we forget, oh my gosh, that

(37:36):
everybody lives like this.
Because I know my circles arereally small, so are yours. And
then we get to choose intoarenas to where people are are
similar in what they're wantingto create, and they feel like
that was one of the reasons whythis, with this podcast, is it
is a different, you know,embodying ascension, you know,
where metaphysical meetsphysical. It's such a different
place. But a lot of times whenpeople break out of the the

(37:57):
stories that they have beenliving for so long, and then
want to know what else ispossible. It does feel, you do
start feeling isolated. And Ilove that I get to co create
with so many beautiful peoplespaces to where it's like, oh
no, no, you're not crazy. You'renot alone in this. This is a
thing that many of us and whenyou start, like, peeling, it

(38:20):
looks like you start openingthis thing, and you're like, oh
my gosh, this goes all the wayover here, and you get to see
all these things, ofpossibilities, of what, what
could be true, what couldhappen, what we could live, how
we could be. You know, increating heaven on earth, it's
quite hopeful, right? It's quitemagical, right? I think to live

(38:44):
a magical life, you have to lookfor the magic in life to live
that's with anything, whateveryou look for, then that's what
you'll find. So I like that ourgroup does look for the magic in
it, and it's all around everysingle day it shows up. And the

(39:06):
more that we become aware of it,then like you'll know just to
look at the clock, right? 1111,you know, every time, every day,
Oh, I must have a clock insideso your internal mechanism, and
that, that piece there is like,when we do see the magic, it's
like, Oh, that is a reflectionof us. It's not something that's

(39:27):
totally outside of us. And Ithink it's important to remember
that, that we are the creatorsof it. And when we get more into
flow and more into alignment,then we do see that more and
more, and thinking it'ssomething external. It is and it
isn't. It's that reflection ofourselves in in the Creator
selves. I when I, I think, youknow this story, but I don't

(39:50):
know when I was, you know, in2012 stepping out of my
marriage, and then all of asudden stepping out of religion
was such as huge like, what thehell? And. And I that was
probably the first time in mylife, because before that, you
know, I was diagnosed as beingbipolar, and I had different
bouts of depression, and I wasin a marriage that was very
belittling, and so I was reallyshrinking down to make sure I

(40:11):
fit this construct. And you andI both done that. I mean, I
think most of us have, and whenI started to break out of that
box, like when I was inside ofit. I remember one time, and
this was, it's interesting thatthis has been coming up years
and years ago. I remember beingso in that darkness, so and just
despair. And I remember in thishouse actually being on my knees

(40:34):
and like just to the core of mybeing, just feeling so alone and
so dark and so depressed andlike, Where the hell are you
God? Because I couldn't feel Godat all, and God was never
supposed to leave me, and beingso pissed. But then I started,
then being more in question,right? And then quandary. And

(40:54):
then that started leading tosome things that started
cracking me open. And then whenI chose to step out and listen
more to my knowing, and I choseto be in that space, I remember
having a I had a few differentevents that had happened where I
allowed for different pieces tocome in that were taboo, right?
I was, I went and had aconversation with a woman,

(41:15):
another Holly, not you, thatchanneled and showed like gave
me some really beautiful gifts,and one of them was, if you ever
need to know if you're on theright path, which I don't
believe right and wrong, but ifyou ever want to know if you're
on the right path, you can ask,and it will come in the form of
a butterfly. And I'm like, okay,that's kind of beautiful. And my
mom was over here at the house.

(41:36):
It was early, early spring. Ifeel like it was March, but it
was an unusually warm day, andshe was really struggling, as of
course she would, the fact thatI'm leaving my marriage, and now
I'm going through I'm I'mleaving the Mormon church. And I
remember being so calm. And shewas in, you know, had some
emotions going, and it wasemotional for me too, but just

(41:57):
very much in my knowing and justspeaking from my heart. And we
went over the swing set my kidswere playing, and we were having
a really hard conversation, andall of a sudden this huge
monarch butterfly came and comesand lands on the chain right
above my hand. And that got meso emotional. And I'm just like,
oh my gosh, I'm feelingsupported. Like, just this, I

(42:19):
remember the first tarot deckthat I used, that I started
using. I still have it. It'slike this Illuminati deck, which
is such an odd deck to get foryour first one. And I would pull
these cards, and they would beexactly the messages that I
needed to hear. And all of asudden I started having this
external things mirroring backthat just brought me so much
peace and so much comfort, somuch relief of knowing that even

(42:42):
though in the physical literal,I was choosing to do something
and go against the grain ofeverything that I had been
taught was okay and safe andknown, I was choosing to go
against it and listen to myknowing. And when I did that,
then the the echoing, themirroring that started to come
in was one of the most exquisitethings. And so so in love, and

(43:03):
it was so beautiful. And so I'vebeen so grateful for that. So it
is like this space of when we dogo come into our knowing, even,
even when it's like, oh shit, mymy world is literally going to
crumble, which it did, and itdidn't. It didn't. I was so
guided and so supported. It was,it was beautiful.

(43:27):
It does end up so beautiful,yeah, yeah, to have that
trusting and not and being inthe not knowing and still having
all of the gifts, like a songcoming on that is perfect,
someone, you're in a noisy room,and someone will say the exact
word. You don't hear any of theconversation, but that word will

(43:51):
come true, and you'll hear aword, or, yeah, you know the
butterfly, or there's so manyways that we are supported.
Well, I think sometimes we canget into
the, well, I don't know what Iwant to call it, but we can
analyze anything and be like,Oh, well, that was probably
this, and that wasn't really,and it's like, no receive, like

(44:14):
the miracles and the magicthat's coming in that is
specific for you. I was watchingthis reel earlier today where
there's this lady complaining,my angels are just never here.
And there's this angel that'slike, Sign number one, and she's
like, they're just never here.
And he rips off the pages like,okay, Sign number two, hello.
And it's like, Are we are wepaying attention, or are we not?

(44:35):
We think that something shouldbe blasting us in the face, and
even when it does, we're not wedon't pay attention until we do
well, I thinktoo, we've been taught to
distrust the miracles. We'vebeen taught to distrust God.
Really we have, I see as insist.

(45:00):
Society, then it is easier totrust what you would call the
the dark or the negative when itcomes in then, then that was it.
But if there's a if there's amiracle that comes in, a gift
that comes in, then we question,I think that's so interesting,
right?
Well, I wonder too, though, ifit's because, again, we're

(45:22):
taught that the natural man isan enemy to God, and then, at
least in our upbringing, withMormonism, like the feminine was
second to the masculine and thepatriarch was the direct
communication to God. And soit's, you know, that
conditioning that we couldn'thave direct revelation. We can't
have these things that wouldhappen specifically for us. And
yet I love in the Course ofMiracles, it talks about

(45:44):
miracles are common, and ifthey're not happy, if they're
not happening, then something iswrong. And that's something I
don't know that they say wrong.
I can't remember the language,but that is a personal thing.
It's not a collective thing.
That's a personal thing, becausemiracles are always abound,
and it's just, are we willing tobe aware enough to receive it,

(46:04):
to go, of course that would behappening for me, and hold
ourselves in gentleness andcompassion and love like we
would our own child. Of nomatter what I love my child, no
matter what they choose, there'sunconditional love there.
Wouldn't we hold ourselves inthat? And why do we not?

(46:26):
I think that's really importantto bring in to love ourselves
like we would our child or ourclosest friend or our sister or
our brother, right? Yeah.
Yeah. And often we don't dothat.
We celebrate more of the places,in the pain, the struggle, we

(46:48):
get more attention to that thanwe do in the success. I mean, we
have, we have, we are notchoosing to do that anymore,
yeah, and it's just more thelayers of the residual of the
tendrils that are asking to fallaway and to close you and I were
talking about attachments todayand closing the doors to the

(47:10):
past. And Holly and I were bothnoticing, because we have a
habit of doing this, we seem tomirror different things in
different ways.
We work things out together,even not knowing, we'll call
each other and say, I'm workingon shutting doors, and she'll
say, so am I? We do that often?
Yeah,yeah, it's really fun. Yeah,

(47:31):
it's really fun. And it thisrelationship has been one that
formed 15 years ago, I think so,and the way that it's unfolded,
and just, I had no idea, I hadno idea he would be one of my
people, like, one of, like, myperson, yeah, like, I had no
idea that you'd be one of mymost profound partners. And I'm

(47:52):
so lucky. And I never thoughtto, like, I never was like, oh,
you know, you think of yourpartner like, my love, my
husband, my boy, you know,whatever it is, oh, that's my
person. You never think aboutthat. I haven't in friendship.
I'm like, oh, yeah, of course Iwould have a person in a
friendship, and I'm lucky tohave a few in my life. And I

(48:12):
never, never thought that wouldbe. I had never thought that,
right? Did you?
I think I've been lucky to onthis journey. I think it was 27
years ago. I the first class Itook was from a spiritual woman
that she gave blessings, shespoke in tongues, she and you

(48:38):
were Mormon, and I was Mormon,and it, it, she was so
beautiful. And I had to watchher feet, because when she would
speak it, I could feel theenergy. And I didn't even know
about energy, and I could feelit. And I thought, did her feet
raise up off of the ground justbecause her, when she would

(49:01):
channel, I would call itchanneling now, then her
vibration would raise so high.
So I thought that I was going togo home and my sisters were
going to tell me that I wasgoing to hell and I bet I had to
keep going back, because theinformation and the love that I

(49:23):
felt there was so pure and so Iwas felt like I was starving,
yeah, and I didn't even know Iwas starving, but it was so
meaty to just fill my heart upwith the that God was real. So I
went home and I told my sisters,and they they were so loving

(49:47):
right away. So I so on thisjourney. I always had partners.
Yeah, I've always had someonethat I can go and talk to. Mm,
hmm. So I love, I've never feltlike on this weird journey of
energy. And, I mean, we learnedabout chakras and essential

(50:08):
oils, never heard about them,yeah, before or anything, yeah,
now it's so common, right? Thatwas part of every you know,
people, everybody, pretty much,everyone, knows or has heard of
chakras, even if they don't knowwhat it is,
of course, in essential oils.
Yeah,I carried around a little bottle
of peppermint even. And it waslike, that's weird. You have
what are you? What are youcarrying? Little lemon little

(50:31):
lemon oil. I rememberbeing, oh, 10 years I don't
remember I would carry lavenderoil with me. I remember being at
one of my kids sports games. Ican't remember. I think it was
probably Lucas with with soccer,and someone got stung, and I was
like, Oh, let me grab mylavender oil. And Lucas, I
remember Lucas beingembarrassed. I think, I think it

(50:51):
was married to Patrick at thetime too. He's like, Oh my gosh.
It's like, this embarrassingthing. It's like, is it though?
Hey, how do you feel now? Doesthat feel better? Yeah,
I was shamed. Yeah, many timesover. Essential oils, lavender,
that's so simple. Yeah, simpleones. Eucalyptus,

(51:12):
yeah, yeah, thatshame dynamic is so fascinating,
man, because it is the closestfrequency. If you know anything
about the frequency if you knowanything about the frequency
scale, it's the closestfrequency to death. And it's so
interesting to me that that issomething that is so like, we
get shamed about for being inour like, even when we talk
about pleasure and the physicalbody. This is a piece when we

(51:34):
talk about, like, sex and sacredSex and the tantra practices and
things that where we get to usethe physical body to access
God's states, which I don'tbelieve that we can access
without the physical body. Ithink this is one of the things
of really, how do we startbringing more physical into
form? I was working with abeautiful couple years ago who

(51:56):
they're like Amanda. We don'tknow what's happening, but
something really cool ishappening when we're in intimacy
and we're in this play, there'sa Gold Orb that's starting to
form in between us, and I'mlike, oh, have fun. I want to
experience that and play withthat. And that's arena that
we're starting to dive moreinto, but those places in the
shame center that is connectedto our sexual center, and part

(52:21):
of our godliness of pleasure, ofhaving these states of ecstasy
that has been so ashamed hasbeen you and I were talking the
other day about where, where ourgreatest weaknesses is our
greatest strength, where we'restruggling with is also our
place where we're feelingtrapped is also where our

(52:41):
freedom is absolutely and so itis when you look at societies a
large or just our lives in thewhole most of us have
experienced many pockets wherewe were shamed, you know,
irregardless of what it was,where it came from, and it's
like, those are the places thatit's like, oh, if I was shamed
here, or if I was chastisedhere, or if I whatever it was,
what's in there that's actuallyasking for me to dive into

(53:05):
deeper, to allow for me to be inthese more exquisite, more in my
godliness, more in freedom.
I think that about sex all thetime is, oh, there must be
something so, so yummy, is soexpansive to get into the other
end of that, because it is beensuch a disruptor. In one way,

(53:31):
I'm ready for it to be adisruptor in the other way, in
what way, just into bringing in,letting go of the shame and
bringing in the Divine Right,bringing in the knowing that we
are love itself, and that we canhave joy in in pleasure, in the
physical body. It when it's notthrough an addiction, where it's

(53:56):
not through a distraction, whereit's not through it's on the
other end, yeah, of bringing us.
I mean, I know in arelationship, it connects, yeah,
youit is a big connector for me.
Oh, it is for anyone. You noticethat that's one of the biggest
things. If sex starts todwindle, the relationship starts

(54:18):
to dwindle like it, that iswhere we connect, especially if
this is a whole otherconversation. I'm like, How much
do I want to dive into that? Butit is at the end of the day, we
are looking for connection.
We're looking for intimacy, thatinto me, I see into me, you
know, I see you. We're we'recraving that, and that's why we

(54:40):
have addictions, or we havethese pieces, is because we are
seeking for connection thatwe're not experiencing in these
other places. And ultimately,it's it's within ourselves that
we're looking for. And thiscould brings up an interesting
Indus arena, you know, like thebook, women who run with will
wolves or Bucha. Power, or whatis it? Pussy reclamation and and

(55:00):
these pieces, especially withthe feminine energy that feels
chaotic, and it's something thatI've always struggled with,
especially in the arenas of inin the woo, woo land, I hate the
word Woo, woo, but I don't knowwhat else to call it that that
summarizes it well. There's alot of this polarization or
pendulum swings, right? I wantto experience pleasure. I'm

(55:24):
gonna experience it anywhere andeverywhere, and I'm gonna allow
for my wildness to come out, andI feel like and in my knowing,
and I feel like you're the same,like Alan Watts talks about
that, there's a certain kind oforder and a certain kind of
discipline that is required inorder to hold the energy, or
else it blows the world topieces. And when we look at

(55:44):
addiction, or we look at anything like that, it is in chaos.
There is leaks in the vessel. Soit creates casualties, if you
will. I don't know how else tophrase that. It creates baggage,
instead of the cleanliness ofowning this energy that we hold,

(56:08):
and how do we want to harnessit, much like we would, you
know, if I have a hose and I'mholding all this frequency
that's wanting to come through,if I have leaks in that hose,
because I think I should be wildand frenetic no matter where I
go, and I'm not in integrity,and I'm not in my boundaries,
and knowing what my boundariesare, what do I want? Then it
does create this freneticnessThat becomes wild, and yet

(56:29):
there's a wildness that gets tohappen, that can happen within
certain constructs where safetyis held. Does this make sense?
What I'm seeing, and I it is adynamic. And I've talked about
often that I don't agree withthe crazy wildness and the
unleashed in that sense, in anycontainer. I do believe in the

(56:50):
Unleashed and the wildness incertain containers when
constructs have been placed.
That you know, when we go intodifferent ceremonies, if you
will. There's certain boundariesthat are placed so that the
safety is created and and thereare no lines crossed to where it
gets messy and there are thingsand later you have to heal from,

(57:13):
or even in partnerships. This iskind of a an interesting topic
that I'm diving into here. Iit that is like everything. It's
a small shift that brings it outof distortion so it can look the
same exact way, right, like,like a woman who is selling

(57:44):
and betraying herself andlooking free in a sexual
situation, but her heart isn'tin it. It is a self portrayal to
get something, to get money or ahome or whatever, or a woman
that is being free in her heartand knows that she is safe and

(58:11):
knows that she is loved, canlook the same, but right the
where her Heart comes from andwhere her heart comes from,
right it is. It's a hugedifference, but yet it's a small
shiftwell into what we were speaking
to before. Like there's no partof me that judges anyone who

(58:33):
chooses whatever path, right,but I have seen time and time
again through clients and andpeople that we've gotten to work
with, we've gotten to work with,I've gotten to work with. I know
you individually too. You see, IWhat is the word that I want to
the it's like, I keep seeingjust the calamity that it, that

(58:53):
it creates, that you almost haveto go back and try and heal,
because you just allowed forit's like a child that's just in
a candy shop, just doingwhatever the hell they want, and
it's like, oh my gosh, you brokethis and this and this and this,
and yet, those places cause alot of learning. And so
absolutely, some of us do chooseto go in, yeah,

(59:15):
and need to. That's the way thatthey learn the quickest, the
best. Yeah, there's nodamnation, right? It's just a
different way of learning. Yeah.
You know what I've learned in inon my path with sexual abuse,
talking about women is the thewomen, in many cases, some chose

(59:36):
to learn through beingpromiscuous, and some chose
through being a nun.
What I saw was each path wasjust as painful, and they were

(59:56):
the same, not having boundaries.
They were the same as shuttingout love, not being connected in
the relationship, that it wasthe same. It was just on the
opposite side, right? So one notbetter than the other
one. It is it is all mirrors.
Like everything in our life ismirrors and into what you're

(01:00:19):
saying one's not better thananother. It is like that place
of reflecting that inner stateof do I feel like I'm worthy and
lovable, and I know in I'm verymuch one that believes that I've
had in my life manyopportunities to look at
openness and polyamory and thosearenas, and it is never

(01:00:41):
something that I wanted. I'vesat in it and wondered, and I've
been and I've looked at it andand seen people and had clients
that have experienced it, andjust have time and time again
recognized and like no, that isnot for me. I believe in one
person and monogamy and and thatsacred devotion to each other.
And I find now as I've gonethrough many different

(01:01:02):
experiences in my life, oflearning, love of learning,
different layers of love oflearning, where I'm not loving
myself now in the space that I'mat and the partnership that I'm
in now has created such safetyfor me, and you've even spoke to
and I love that you get to havea voice like I get to have a
voice and say things in a waythat I've never said it of even,
of what my desires are and whatmy wants are that have, I think,

(01:01:23):
in the past relationshipdynamics, I've been afraid to
say it, because if I did, thenthey wouldn't choose to stay.
And it's interesting, when we dothat, it's like, well, if you
know, when I look at it now, I'mlike, Well shit. Why would I
want to say anything other thanwhat I truly want, even if
they're going to leave that thatis not my person. And being in a
space now it's like, Oh, I getto say what I feel and what I

(01:01:46):
want and what my heart's cravingand desiring and knowing if
they're my person, they'llcontinue to show up, and that's
what I've been experiencing. Andif they're not, then I'm glad I
got to say what I got to say,and honoring me in a way that I
never have, which has been aunique a unique experience.

(01:02:08):
Well, I think to come to thatknowing, because I've done the
same thing, to come to thatknowing I have not said my what
I need. I haven't said and I'velearned it hasn't got me to keep
them there. It hasn't got mewhat I wanted, right? So what do

(01:02:31):
I have to lose, right?
Well, and part of this, again,like we've talked about some of
this, a lot of this comes withself awareness, of recognizing
when I'm triggered, maybe Idon't speak from that space, or
if I have a piece that's poppingthat actually has nothing to do
with my partner, but more to dowith me, I'm probably not going
to communicate it, because itcould cause unnecessary damage.

(01:02:52):
And I was thinking about thebook nonviolent communication,
which is such an interestingbook title, and not one that
most people would pick up, butin my arena, I had it come up
three different times, so I'mlike, All right, maybe I need to
listen to this. And I wish, Iwish he would title it something
different, because I neverthought that I had violent
communication. So I wouldn'tpick that up and get as I read
it, it was like, Oh my goodness.
This is one of the mostbeautiful books of how much, how

(01:03:15):
many times are we actuallycommunicating from this core
piece of what my needs are, andspeaking to that, and not this
projection of I need you to dothis in order to make me feel
better. It's like, oh, my needright now is to feel safe, and
I'm not feeling safe in thismoment, or I'm not feeling safe
with this experience or thiscontainer. So I'm speaking to

(01:03:35):
that to feel safe, and either itgets acknowledged and recognized
and matched, or it doesn't, andthat's okay. And that is a book
I highly recommend, because Ithink that it is a more
vulnerable space and moreauthentic space to communicate
from. And we've not been taughtthat. We haven't been taught to
even go in our self reflectionof well a most people don't even

(01:03:57):
know what their needs or valuesare within relationship, within
life, within career, most peoplehave no idea what their what my
value, what your values are. Youknow, for me, in anything that I
do, freedom is one of my biggesthop things with my like what I'm
creating in business, freedom isright up there in my love and
relationships like that, thatdevotion and intimacy is like,

(01:04:20):
right there? No like, one of myobviously, love is up there, but
you know, this is another one,but most people don't know. So
it's like, if something'spinging, it's like, Okay, where
is this bumping up against theneeds and my value systems of
what I'm wanting in arelationship? And can I speak
from that place without thisattacking, without projecting,
thinking that the other personhas to shift or change to make

(01:04:40):
me feel better. Because thereality is, is that's never that
won't happen, especially if it'scoming from that place, but if
it's coming from a place of,hey, this makes me, this doesn't
feel good to me. Can we shiftthis? Can we change this? Is
there a place there where we canmatch in that energy? Or maybe
not? And that's okay. Well,what I came to the conclusion

(01:05:02):
is, okay, it's this,because it's in the top. It's
all good. I'm sorry. Isthat? What did I want to
experience of myself, right?
Like, not so much from the otherperson, and of course, the other

(01:05:24):
person brings it in also. Butwhat am I wanting to experience?
I'm wanting to experience thevulnerability of a deep
conversation. So am I willing tobe vulnerable and to be in a
deep conversation. And then,then, if the person is wanting

(01:05:49):
that too, and how, how importantis that to me? That's really
important to me. So her camerajust died. But that's fine.
We'll have partial on YouTube,okay, but I better double check
that it's recording here,because it would be a sad if

(01:06:09):
it's not,and it must be perfect. We're
actually over an hour. We'reover an hour. You and I could
talk for hours, though, that'sthe thing.
But yes, to what you were whatyou were saying with,
I think it is in the selfknowing, knowing to what you

(01:06:31):
want, right?
And that's the part that I feellike most people don't. So
again, this kind of comes up alittle bit with that chaos or
the leaks in the hose of thevessel. If I don't know what I
want, then how am I ever goingto get it?
Well, I didn't know that I couldwant what I want, right? I
didn't know that it was okay forme to want what I wanted.

(01:06:55):
And that's such an interestingthing. It was
so big for me to ask over andover and over, is it okay for me
to want to experience myself inhaving a deep conversation in a
relationship? Right? Because thepartner that I had at the time
said no, and so then I said, itmust not be okay for me to want

(01:07:22):
what I want if I want to protectthis relationship that I have.
So yeah, but it, it neverworked, right? Because the the
part that I found that was soimportant to me was to
experience myself as being seenin that vulnerability, and for

(01:07:49):
me to have a deep conversation,takes a partner to see that deep
conversation with me too and notjust speak to a wall,
what didn't work well, and withthat, you know, to everything
that we're saying, it's we dohave get to have these beautiful
opportunities where peopleexperiences come into our lives

(01:08:13):
to mirror back different beliefsystems, right? Like for me,
growing up, since we're talkingabout relationships, I was
always like, you know, I wantedmy person to noise and live
happy like happily ever after,and I had one in particular that
he really was good atromanticizing and fantasizing
that it's us against the world.
And so because of that, usagainst the world, the amount of

(01:08:33):
abuse that I tolerated becauseof that, was so fascinating to
me, because it was playing onthis, this,
I want to call it a fantasy, alittle bit of
a fantasy. You had somebody thatyou weren't alone, that somebody
had your backright, even in the dysfunction
of it, yeah, and, and I wasgrateful again. It's like I've

(01:08:54):
been grateful for all thesedifferent experiences that I've
had to be able to allow forthese, these internal narratives
that I had to die off to go, oh,wait a second. I don't know that
I believe this to this degree,that I'm going to then abandon
myself, sacrifice these piecesall for the sake of what I
thought I wanted. And so these,things, do they, you know, like

(01:09:20):
you're talking about in yourpartnership, okay, well, that
wasn't allowed. And so that it'slike, I played this role. And
then it's like, oh, wait aminute to what I like that. Do I
want to do it different nexttime? And how? How do I do that?
And this is,but it was, it was all in the
thought of requiring more ofmyself. Tell me more about what
do you mean? Well, to have adeep conversation, to want a

(01:09:43):
deep conversation, it wasrequiring me to come more into a
relationship, even withyourself. Yeah, and then to have
it on the outside of myself, tobe reflected on the outside of
myself. But it first had to comewhere I was yearning to have
that deep conversation and to beseen myself in that way.

(01:10:09):
Well, that is one of the thingsI think is so beautiful about
this experience, is because wecan get really buried in this
internal world that we're livingin our thoughts and our
emotions, in whatever's going onin the narrative, but it is when
we take that moment to becausejust a few days ago, I was
telling you, well, maybe a weekago, I don't remember I was
telling you, I'm like, Man, Idon't feel like I've changed at

(01:10:29):
all. Like, am I really growing?
And you're like, um, maybe youshould go read old journal
entries or look at the dynamicsthat are playing out right now.
Of what's mirroring back to you.
It's vastly different than whatI've experienced. And so in that
it is like, Okay, this is a goodall right, look at what's
happening in my life right now.
What's it mirroring back? And Ithink that's one of the
beautiful things about beingable to have this human

(01:10:51):
experience of, Yes, everything'shappening internally, and we're
coming back to center and goinginto our knowing. And what is
mirroring in my external world?
How is that reflecting back? Andif there's things that are not
the greatest, you're like, allright, what do I get to shift
internally to have the externalmatch it?
I think it's quite I thinkin that way though, we get,

(01:11:16):
if we're coming from the spaceof we're doing it wrong, there's
something wrong with me. Yeah,we're not manifesting the right
way. Oh, I got sick becausethere's something wrong with me.
I think that's where it hasgotten confused. I agree,
because, like, I've said manytimes, I mean Byron Katie, who

(01:11:37):
is in her total self awareness,got a debilitating disease, got,
I think, stage three, fourcancer, went blind. It's like,
and she is totally in her selfawareness, 100%
doesn't it's like, shemay be a little disconnected
from the body. That's aconversation for another time. I
don't, andI don't know, right? It's like,

(01:11:57):
in the manifestation part, Ithink, is just part. What I
always feel like is that that ispart of being human, yeah.
Well, that's what I have afriend who pointed out, and I
have no idea, like, you look atany of the thought leaders, Alan
Watts, I don't know about JosephCampbell, but you look at any of

(01:12:20):
and I can't rattle off all theirnames, and they all had their
shit, like Alan Watts, becausehe's coming up, because I love
Alan Watts. I didn't know thathe was an alcoholic. I didn't
know that he was a womanizer.
Yeah,I had no idea. And who knows
what's true, right? But thearticle that I read, they said
he drank himself to death, yeah.
And so it's interesting, and Ithink again, this goes though a

(01:12:43):
little bit to the human vices,and this is part of what I feel
like. I'm here. We're here. Thispodcast is about, is, how do we
come into more of a symbioticrelationship with the body?
Because I know for me, likeright now, I have a few extra
pounds that I have because I'min Upper Limiting this fear of
being seen. I'm channeling thisbook. I'm bumping up against

(01:13:04):
edges, especially with thechanneling energy and that
frequency. You'll notice thatmost psychics are heavy. They
have this extra layer of okay,how do I ground myself? How do I
ground myself? How do I groundmyself? And how do we get into
better relationship to wherethere's both this higher
frequency that's coming in, andthe lower density of grounding
it so that we're rooted and wehave our wings, so that we are

(01:13:26):
the bridge between heaven andearth. And I, I feel like that's
part of my quest of thisembodying ascension. How do we
really embody all these pieces?
And it is natural to like, Huh?
Okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonnachannel and have all this
beautiful wisdom come through.
And, you know, Ellen and I'mgoing to be an alcoholic,
because a lot of this is, is, isa lot for the physical body, and

(01:13:48):
we put the physical body througha lot.
Well, what, what I learnedfrom again, going and sitting
with Ganga mirror is being inawareness is not it's just being
in awareness. It is just knowingthat I am, that it does not

(01:14:09):
which does make for a betterlife, right? But it does not
take away anything from thehuman experience you still have
the human life. You still havewhen you birth a child. You
still go through labor, right?
There is still everything in thehuman life. You still taste

(01:14:33):
food. We'renot going to escape. Well, some
of us taste food, yeah, exceptme, oh. Holly's lost her sense
of smell and taste since she gotCOVID A couple years ago. Yeah,
maybe that's part of yourawakening. Oh, who knows. But we
can't, and that, I think, is thepiece of we can't escape it. But
how do we be one with it to whatyou're saying, and I love that

(01:14:57):
you bring you're bringing thisup. Is oftentimes when we do
have that outer reflection, oh,shit. What? What am I doing
wrong? What am I holding wrong?
What do I need to go fix? Whatdo I need to go clear? Because I
get in that all the time. Andthat's not it that is looking
for the answer in the cycle ofinsanity, right? Because those
questions really looking forthe answer in the cycle of

(01:15:18):
insanity. I love it when you saythat. Keep talking. Sorry.
Reallyit is. It is looking for truth
where there is no truth. Becausethink of how you feel when
you're asking those questions,when you're saying those things,
what am I doing wrong? What am Idoing wrong? What am I doing
wrong? It really does feelcrazy, yeah, because it, it
really is in the cycle ofinsanity, right? So to go into

(01:15:40):
the thought, into the knowing,of surrendering, and then going
center, and then coming fromcenter, where truth is, where
the knowing is, where you areknowing, then that is where the
answers are found. Yeah, theyare never found in in whatever

(01:16:03):
cycle you're running ofinsanity, there's
a process that we were justtalking about today that has
been coming in in differentiterations, but it's somewhat of
an NLP technique that's a futurepacing thing, especially when we
get in these moments of like,Ah, we're filming next month,
and these big things that wefeel like we've got to do, or or

(01:16:24):
to what you're just talkingabout when we get in that, oh my
gosh, something. What am I doingwrong? There's a little ritual
that you can do that's reallyeasy, that you just close your
eyes and you imagine yourtimeline in front of you, your
future in front of you, and youcall forward the version of you
50 years from now, 100 yearsfrom now, even 1000 years from
now. Because when we stretch andwe allow for our minds to even

(01:16:47):
go to the unfathomable place 100years, 1000 years, that version
of us has everything figuredout, has already mastered
everything. And so we go intothat space, and we allow for
ourselves and our imagination togo there and we call forward
that 100 year, you know, fromnow, version of ourselves, and
allow them to start walkingtowards us, that place and that

(01:17:08):
space within us, like that'smore where our knowing is of,
Oh, I've already done it.
Because there's no such thing astime. We've already done the
things we've already completed,the things we've already had
successful fill in the blank. Soit is like that ability. This is
kind of a cool technique thatI'm being reminded of, that I
get to practice more and more ofin my daily meditations and
visualizations of that, even inrumination of, okay, the version

(01:17:31):
of me that's already completedall of this. How does she feel?
How does she walk when she comesinto a room? What does she
emanate? What does she know?
What's, what's, what's in herway of being, what is her light
life look like, like, all thosequalities, and then bringing it
forward and bring an aspect. Andthere's this whole piece in

(01:17:52):
shamanism, where we do aspect,we do aspect, well, we soul
retrievals. But you can do anaspect Soul Retrieval to where
it's like, okay, this part ofthat future self I'm bringing
forward now, because this iswhat I'm available for now. This
is what I'm ready for now. Andit does allow for us to be more
in that centered space, more inthat knowing and then going out

(01:18:15):
of the cycle of insanity and gomore into that centered space.
It can be a beautiful practice,and one again that I'm being
reminded of, that I get to domore. We
have so many gifts, so manyways, so many beautiful things
that are so simple to bring itin. They are so simple, but

(01:18:35):
we resist doing it because wethink it should be harder. We
got to wait till something ishard enough to knock us on our
ass, right?
You know, sometimes I don't dothings, I mean, like that. It's
like, Oh no, this is too big.
That Won't that won't take careof it, instead of just doing it,
instead of just letting go ofthe problem, yeah, and and

(01:18:57):
giving it a try, even in insteadof saying, Okay, let's do it,
Let's surrender this.
Well, what's the story ofcreation? Right? There was the
Word, and then it was creation.
Make that simple. And so it islike when, again, when we come
into our knowing and our to ourGod Selves. Of course, it would

(01:19:18):
be that simple. When we look atstories of Jesus and the things
that he went through and theexperience, like the miracles
that he performed, were simple.
It was just with his intention,with his energy, with the
desire, whatever it was, it wassimple. So it is, it is our
human self that wants tocomplicate it and make it harder

(01:19:39):
than it needs to be versus ourknowing and our God Selves. It's
like, well, yeah, you're gonnaget through this just fine. And
you could just do this littlething, or have this thought
shift, or this, I'm literallyjust gonna even change the way
that I'm sitting and allow forme to all of a sudden be more in
my higher self. Could be thatsimple, seriously,
like when you're having aconversation. And your arms are

(01:20:00):
closed, right? You're bend over,and then you realize, oh, okay,
I'm closed, and you openyourself up. Changes the whole
conversation,yeah, or even catching, I'll
catch myself. Of like, Huh?
Okay, I don't know that I like,I know I don't like this
feeling. I know I'm in my ownstuff. I know I've been having

(01:20:21):
moments of allowing myself to bemore in my feminine that feels,
oh, I don't like it.
What don't you like about beingin the feminine? There's a
place because I have been morein my masculine most of my life,
and then I've been opening up myfeminine probably the last, oh,
five years, probably, maybe,like, I mean, you might tell me

(01:20:42):
something different here.
I don't know. I don't know thedifference in because I think,
of, like, I've always said, Ithink that I think masculine and
is feminine, and feminine ismasculine. We
really don't know. So I don'tknow. In
my upbringing, my emotions werewhy I was diagnosed. Like my

(01:21:03):
emotions and my desires, of whatI wanted to experience that
weren't okay, was why I wasgiving this this diagnosis of
being bipolar. So my feminineenergies, that felt feminine to
me, of chaotic, of allowing fora mesh on my emotions, or even
my language to be seen and feltand heard wasn't okay. So now
allowing for more safety in myvessel, to to and even in my

(01:21:26):
partnership, because that'swhere it's coming out right now,
is like, Oh my gosh. Why? I'mfeeling lots of emotions right
now, and I'm feeling like almostmy little girl that just wants
to be in her emotions, not in anot in a real traumatic or
dramatic way, but more justfeeling the little bit of the

(01:21:47):
smallness of how I feel in thatbecause it feels vulnerable. It
doesn't feel like my like, oh,okay, my wiser self knows that
I'm triggered right now. And,you know, whatever it is, it's
like, no, I want, I think that Iwant to be fucking, I want to
fucking be in my emotions for aminute, and I want to feel this,
and I want to pout for a second,and I'm gonna go take a shower

(01:22:08):
and just sit there and be in mylove for a minute and then have
because I was, I was literallyin the shower, and I was just
like, oh, and I could feel thethoughts just spinning and like,
just me being in A little bit ofmy I going to use the word
doubtiness, which is so an oddword, but that's what's coming
through. And then I had thismoment of like, alright, Amanda,

(01:22:29):
how long are you going to stayhere? Like, really? Are you
going to do this? And it's like,Ah, fuck, fine. Okay. I'm going
to be in my my, more of myknowing. But it was okay for me
to allow for some of thissmallness to come out because I
hadn't had a space to allow forthat to come out. I know this
doesn't make sense, more thanlikely. I don't know if it's

(01:22:49):
making sense or not, but Ithink that it makes sense not
make sense. It it makes sense.
It's like when I was running myclothing company, and I was
freaking young, and I knew whatI was doing and I didn't know
what I was doing, but becausethere was times where I knew
that I didn't know what I wasdoing, in certain aspects, I
would pretend that I did, and Ifeel like there's elements in

(01:23:12):
partnership and with what I dofor a living. I can't believe
I'm saying this where there hasbeen this part of me that has
had to pretend like, well, I'mgoing to be in my bigger self,
or I'm going to look, I'm goingto be more in the seeing how I'm
creating this, and I'm going togo into that space like what we
were talking about, instead ofjust being in the energy of it
and the emotion of it, allowingit to move through and allowing

(01:23:34):
me to be more in that I have noidea what the fuck I'm doing
sometimes. And that feels morebecause to me, the masculine
energy has like, well, this iswhere we're it's like that force
and flow, right? Feminine ismore flow. Masculine is more
force. And I would say to yourpoint, who knows what's
masculine and what's feminine?
But if it felt very vulnerableand very weak, it felt weak. And

(01:23:57):
that is a part of my feminineand me being in this feminine
embodiment. There's been manyparts of my feminine expression
that I have been told it wasweak, that wasn't okay. And so
then I flipped, and it was like,All right, then I'm always going
to be in my knowing, and I'mgoing to be more in my mask, and

(01:24:17):
I'm going to be more the leaderand more the data it's taken me
a while to be able to bridge andbe in both of like, well, a lot
of times I have no idea what thefuck I'm doing, and I do know a
lot of things.
I think that all of us, oftenare like, I don't know what

(01:24:37):
we're doing, but let's keepgoing. But let's keep going,
right? Yeah, but this, it seemslike this is what to do, right?
So let's keep going.
This is what it feels to do nowand then we'll see, and this
massive place of trust andsurrender that gets to come in
and detaching from outcomethat I think that is so free.
Thing to detach from theoutcome.

(01:25:03):
Yeah, as you take a breath,yeah, it's
like, if I have an idea of whatI think the outcome my entire
life, you know, should it shouldlook this way, this way, this
way. And when I let go of that,it just unravels so much
tension.
Well, I mean, the irony is sofunny with that, because it's

(01:25:26):
like no part of my life did Iever anticipate and could have
told you, other than me being amother, that this is what my
life would be like. So anybody'slife?
No, none of us.
I mean, there's got to besomeone in the world. No, said
yes, this is exactly what Ithought my life was going to be,
A, B, C, D, E.
It's just a place of It's asafety tactic of thinking we can

(01:25:48):
control outcome, and we can't,especially when it's involving
other people, there's no forsure. So, yeah, letting, letting
go the illusions that we have toattachment, that thinking that
we can control how something'sgoing to, you know, come out.
It's like, really, and that iswhere more the yumminess is. And
I love Michael singer's book thesurrender experiment or

(01:26:11):
experience, because he's talkedso eloquently about that. And
that is where more the magiccomes in of like, letting like,
I yeah, I get to go create this,and I'm letting go. I don't know
how it's really going to comeforward, and then that's when
the magic gets to come in,because I know I don't know what
I don't know,right? Right? That is when the
magic gets to come in, becauseour small mind of what we know.

(01:26:31):
If we don't allow for theunknown to come in, if we don't
allow for the magic to come in,it stays so small, right? Yeah,
and stagnant, yeah, yeah,yeah. The more I learn, the more
I know that I don't know and onthat we should probably wrap it
up, because I think we'reprobably like in an hour and a
half, and our YouTube videos cutshort, which is so perfect, but

(01:26:53):
I love this, but I love talkingwith you. So cute. Shocker. Is
there anything? Is thereanything else you feel gets to
be said or spoken to before weclose?
There any message you feel likeanyone who's listening right now
needs to hearthat this journey is exactly the

(01:27:16):
journey that you're on, the paththat you are on, is exactly what
is preferred for you. It is itis made so specific each step
for you, that's what I wouldwant them to know, and probably
myself too, that we are rightwhere we are supposed to be. And

(01:27:43):
I like the word preferred, whatyour soul is preferring.
I love that. It's beautiful.
Thank you.
Thank you all.
Thank you for joining me onembodying ascension, where the
metaphysical meets the physical.
Continue your journey on mywebsite, Amanda joy,
loveland.com, and to go evendeeper, I encourage you to find
my book, threads of light onAmazon until we meet again.

(01:28:05):
Breathe life. Embody light andremember who you are and have
always been. You.

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From Shame to Sacred: Reclaiming the Body as a Vessel of Divinity

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