December 13, 2025 • 49 mins
Jamie Rocha paints a picture of the first weeks in Ramadi in 2004: a broken flight, a slow convoy, and a first mission that turned a crowded market into silence and a defining memory that never really fades. Early raids, QRF nights, and hard choices about restraint and pursuit shape the story. From truck assignments to map frustrations, fear and humor all rode in the same vehicle.
• deployment journey through delays, snow, and convoy into Ramadi
• Warth wounded, emergency cordon, and shock of close blast
• buried artillery lucky near misses
• holding a street while choosing not to escalate
• night QRF, improvised rocket launches, and searching the fields
• failed breach, wrong-house raid, and weight of bad intel
• leadership sprinting forward, pursuit risks, and unit cohesion
• getting lost on rooftops; NVG limits
• memory gaps, reunions, and finding old teammates
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.
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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
All right, buddy.
Uh we start with uh having uhyou do a quick introduction for
yourself.
Tell us uh your name, what rankyou were in Ramadi in 2004, and
your primary uh job over there.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17):
Um Jamie Rocha.
I was uh last corporal at thetime of Ramadi.
And uh I was a I was a teamleader for uh with who?
It's been so long.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
I want to say hammer baby.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Yeah, well, yeah, but I don't even know who was
over me.
I think it was like Reeves orsomebody.
I don't remember to tell you thetruth.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
You're in my truck a lot.
Huh?
You're in my truck a lot too.
Yeah, we didn't have we didn'treally have set truck teams.
I mean, it it changed dependingon the mission.
But I know you rolled out withReeves a lot and you rolled out
with me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
Yeah, and you know, with Gwizdak and uh uh Stadleman
Worth.
So yeah, and uh yeah, I was justuh a team leader.
I was actually their teamleader, Worth Gwizdak and Wolf.
There you go.
So that's Wolf, I haven't heardthat name in a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Wolf in Ohio, I think.
SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
But is he funny story?
Just real quick, I was uh I wentto the 2-4 associate reunion lat
uh uh a few months ago, I'msorry.
Yeah, and uh um some of hisboots were there.
Oh, really?
And uh they knew that I was uhhis senior marina, they kept on
asking all these questions abouthim, like how was he?
(02:33):
Because he was real hard withus, or you know, I was like,
Wolf?
Are we talking about the samewolf, right?
Like the one that was real timidwith me and like scared and
wouldn't you know, wouldn'tspeak up and like, oh yeah, but
he kept to himself, but everyonewas kind of like don't really
talk to the guy with us like whyhe was the sweetest guy you ever
(02:53):
meet.
Like that was funny.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Well, yeah, but you pick up those rockers if they're
uh you pick up those chevrons,you uh you turn into a different
person.
SPEAKER_04 (03:02):
I I guess so, yeah.
I think he was serious orcorporal, I'm not too sure.
Like after I got out, but I meansure he picked up so that was
cool of them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
So let's uh let's start at the beginning.
What do you remember of uhgetting over to uh over to
Ramadi?
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Huh.
I remember being on a rememberhow we flew over there was it
like a 46 or something or or a52?
I don't know what it was, but itwas the worst flight ever.
We were all sitting in our gearwith our guns facing down, and
we could it was like a damn near18-hour flight, and then we
stopped in Jersey and a planemessed up, and we circled back
(03:45):
around and we had to stay inJersey for like three or four
days or however long it was, Ican't remember.
It was snowing over there.
And then we finally get there,and we get to Kuwait to
climatize, and then pretty muchbust into Ramadi a month later.
That was a worse way to go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Yeah.
Uh actually going back to thethe jersey piece, and when you
said the snowing, I forgot aboutthat part.
And uh the snowing, the reasonwhy that what what I remembered
of that is is there was ahandful of guys that had never
seen snow before.
Yeah, I was one of them.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
Yeah.
South Texas, a little snow overhere, probably.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Well, I just got I got uh I just got 13 inches
yesterday.
And so uh I'm I'm used to I wasmy relationship with snow is a
little bit different.
So I thought that that thatalways struck me.
Uh like it got to number youguys that were like, what is
this stuff?
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
Yeah, no, it got to 52 degrees over here, and I'm
freezing my ass off.
Dude, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
That's crazy.
You had to deploy to the MiddleEast to see snow.
That was that would not be uhthat would have been on the
checklist at all.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
Yeah, I know.
I mean and then didn't we stopin a um I think we stopped
somewhere to refuel, I think itwas what uh Ramson Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
So no, Alaska was on the way to uh Okinawa, but uh
yeah, that on this particulartrip we stopped a couple of
times, like you talked about.
We stayed in Jersey while theyreplaced the engine.
Then we made a sudden stop inCanada of all places, and then
we flew over and made, Ibelieve, a pit stop in Shannon
(05:24):
Air Force Base, if I remembercorrectly, but we didn't get off
the plane, and then we stoppedat Romstein, Germany, where we
did get off the plane and wentinto those little cold ass uh
metal buildings.
I don't know what they were.
Yeah, and then we flew intoKuwait.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
You see, it's it's it's crazy because I remember
this now this now that you'retalking about it, but I don't I
don't remember small details.
Like I guess it was so long ago,and yeah, uh my memory as good
as used to be from all the damnIEDs over there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
You know, so yeah.
Well, some some of the art uh Ithink uh Nylan and I have the
benefit also of we've beentalking to guys, and so some of
these memories are more to theforefront because we literally
just talked about them, and souh it's not that we have that
much better of a memory, but sowe're so you got so you're
(06:19):
talking about Camp Victory.
Um do you remember how you gotup to Ramadi from Camp Victory?
SPEAKER_04 (06:27):
There was uh there was a group convoy and uh and uh
uh I want to say we were theones in the in the five-ton
trucks, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
I don't know.
I went up I went up in uh one ofthe earliest convoys, um, and I
was a driver going up.
Oh, you drove no I was in theback.
Yeah, and then there was a andthen the the main element came
up separately, and so you guyscame up in five tons, is what
you remember?
SPEAKER_04 (06:53):
Yeah, I remember going because I do have a quick
video of like everyone loadingup on five tons and just behind
little sandbags, you know, likepretty much gonna do anything
besides just nothing, prettymuch.
But yeah, I I remember gettingon those and then heading out.
(07:14):
I can't remember how long thedrive was, though.
For the life of me, I don'tremember how long how long we
were back at those humpies, butto me it felt like a damn
lifetime.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Fuck, you know, felt like hours in the back of that
thing.
More than a day, two days,probably.
SPEAKER_04 (07:29):
Scared and I know what's gonna happen, you know.
The first time in a country likethat that don't want us there.
Yeah, you know, that's prettypretty wild.
Yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's funny how it felt so long because if you went
right now and drove a regularstandard car down the highway
from Kuwait border to Ramadi, itwould take you six and a half
hours.
It's really not that far.
But we drove 40 miles an hourbecause those seven tons
couldn't drive at 80 miles anhour the whole time.
(08:03):
And we stopped in Scania was thename of that place where we
refueled and stayed the night.
Uh, and so it felt like forever.
It felt like we were driving,yeah, I don't know, all day and
all night.
SPEAKER_04 (08:16):
Yeah, so see, I I don't to tell you the truth, I
don't even remember stopping andstaying anywhere.
Yep.
I just remember just pretty muchit felt like forever in the back
of that that 710 or and thenjust getting off and being in a
hurricane point and then lookingat our hooch and saying, What
the fuck am I gonna be you knowsitting here for?
(08:39):
There's no fucking like there'sa damn near there's paper
covering on the top of us andthe canvas roof, yeah.
There's no roof.
I was like, man, we ain't gonnalast long here.
I was thinking to myself likeJesus.
Oh well, we're gonna startwriting them them letters, huh?
So but yeah, but yeah, that'sthat's what I remember how we
(09:04):
got there.
It was two those seven tons andwhatever, and I just it's like
at the time it felt so long, butthen like now that I think about
it, it felt like I was justthere in a blink of an eye to
tell you the truth to thembecause I don't remember
stopping.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
Yeah, that's I don't know, I don't know that we
necessarily stayed all the wayovernight, but we definitely
stayed for a very long time atthat refueling point.
So and a lot of guys caught anap.
I obviously didn't because I waswandering around planning shit,
but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:37):
Yeah, that's that's what I could you know remember
about all that, you know, as faras getting there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Sure.
And then you would have been wewould have we started rolling
into some early uh patrols andstuff like that.
Um you would have been in theback of you would have I was
with uh Gunny Cook at first.
He was my vehicle commander andI was a driver.
And then you first truck.
And that was our we were firsttruck, and then you were right,
(10:05):
then you were always secondtruck.
Yes.
And that was Warth as thevehicle commander.
Yeah.
And then you would because hegot hit uh early early on.
And that was probably our thatwas our first probably I don't I
don't know if you remember anymissions prior to that, but what
do you remember of when Worthgot hit?
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Oh, that was crazy.
Uh um I remember almosteverything.
Like, damn.
I remember going, we actuallyWorth wasn't driving.
Stadleman was driving.
Worth it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
Right.
I uh yeah, was a vehicle.
unknown (10:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:40):
Me and Reeves were in the back with I don't even
know who else.
And Gwizdak wasn't was thegunner.
I don't know why they putGwizdak as a gunner, but we sure
did, right?
And uh I remember going on themarket market square, that
market, and it was just fuckingpacked with people.
Just packed.
I mean, we would have to getdown to kind of pushing away
from the truck to and then Iremember circling, and then we
(11:04):
we circled, we did our littlepatrol, whatever, and then we
came back that same route.
And when we got back there, I Iremember there was nothing in
sight, no person, no female, no,no one walking, no nothing.
It was just like dead to theworld, like it wasn't even a
town.
And then I remember we'repassing by, and I do remember
your truck passing a bike, abike, and then I heard over the
(11:30):
radio because I had, you know,one of those uh little uh
headsets, and and and heard overthe radio stop as a possible IED
or something to that nature, youknow.
It was it was something likethat.
Well then the way I was sitting,I was facing a kind of catty
corner, and this thing justfucking blows up.
Boom! And it hits my truck,well, it hits the end of my
(11:53):
truck, so because I'm sitting inthe back of it, and it felt like
it blew me out because youremember that scene in Blackhawk
Down where he gets hit by likean RPG next to him, and then
he's looking up and a guy'strying to talk to him and he
can't hear him.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
His ears are ringing, he's likebells rung.
SPEAKER_04 (12:11):
Yeah, it felt like that because I was on the floor
and I was like, what the fuck?
Right.
I'm like looking around, scaredas shit, my heart's pounding
because it's that was our firstactual when he attacked us,
yeah, right, like personally.
And I was like, what the fuck,right?
And then Reeves is like, hey,get up, get up, and I'm like,
dude, my body fucking hurts.
Like, but I don't know if I gotthrown out of the vehicle or or
(12:33):
what, right?
And then I finally get up, andthat's when uh we hear Warth and
Warthers yelling.
He's just like, I can't see, Ican't see.
So I go over there and I look athim, and I'm like, I don't have
the fucking heart to tell.
I'm like, man, well, you got nofucking eye, like you know, like
because you could see it wasn'tmore of blood, it was more
pussy.
(12:54):
And like you could tell it, itlooked like his eye got
deflated, you know.
So, and then he took off, well,because when he took off his oak
lease, that's like that, likethat's when you could see his
old eye, and there was just itjust looked like it was just
deflated, like pus, white, andall sorts of shit is just coming
down.
And he's like, Does it lookokay?
And I'm like, you know, I mean,I don't know what to tell you,
(13:15):
buddy, but I mean, I couldn'ttell him like you ain't gonna
have that fucking eye no morefor very long, right?
I mean, so and then I doremember, I think I was with
you, Muster.
We uh man, we we put a securityteam around our Humvees and
stuff, and then they took theytook Gwizdak and Worth out of
(13:38):
there because Gwizdak got hit inthe face, like he had a big old
gash on his cheek.
All right, and then they tookthem out of there.
They asked me to leave, but Istayed with Muster, and then we
ended up going to a school, Ithink, right?
Or or a building to like searchit.
unknown (13:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
And then uh we did that, and then as we're coming
down, I was like, man, myfucking arm hurts.
And I think it was you, it waslike, Do you have a fucking
metal rod point out of it?
And that's when I looked down tomy right, right, and there was
like a metal piece hanging on myarm, and then you decided to
pull it out, like break it.
I was like, Oh my god, I saidfuck it, I'm gonna die, you
(14:16):
know.
And it was really nothing, butit was just like no, it wasn't
interesting.
Just grabs it and breaks itbecause it was so hot it didn't
burn.
Yeah, it just made a hole downto my bone, and it wasn't a big
hole, it was just a fucking holeyou could see to my bone.
And you know, so and then afterthat, it was just like, oh my
god, Jamie refused medicalevacuation.
(14:39):
No, bitch.
If I knew I was hit, I wouldn't,I would have left too.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
Fuck, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (14:48):
But uh I'm not a hero, I just didn't know.
Yeah, you know, and then but itwas just so because you're like,
oh yeah, look, you got someonesticking out, you just like
grabbed it, but but you didn'tpull it out, you like bent it
and it just broke off because itwas so hot.
And so that's why I had to go.
I think I went to uh uh combatoutpost, and then they dug like
all the rest of the pieces outfor me, like with their fucking
(15:10):
our makeshift docks and stuff.
They just went and they startedjust pouring out small pieces
out of there, yeah.
And I was like, oh man, I don'twant to go back out, but yeah,
so and I always wanted to, likeI was like, what if that would
have hit a few inches up?
It would have hit me right inthe throat, right?
I think that would have been alittle bit worse, dude.
There's a lot of stuff likethat, yeah.
Yeah, you know, like that wouldhave been a little bit worse,
(15:32):
yeah.
Just blood gushing out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
No, we there is I and I know you.
I mean, the I can I remember acouple of the times that we got
hit where it is absolutely I Idon't know how we made it out of
there just because it was it itshouldn't have happened.
There was that it was lit waythe the this is the one that I
always think about that Ithought was just wild was we
(15:55):
were coming back, and I thinkyou were in my truck on this
one, but nevertheless, it was atleast two, if not three, daisied
IDs that they had buried waslike one five five, but they
buried them too deep, thank god.
Yes, and also that and when theypopped it, it hit exactly in
between the trucks, and so itdidn't actually really hit
(16:17):
anybody, it knocked Wisdak back.
He was on he was on the gun, itknocked him down, but no one
really got hurt, and that one Ialways think about being like if
if if we were just a little bitmore forward, man, that would
have been bad, bad.
SPEAKER_04 (16:34):
If they hadn't buried him too deep, because I
do remember that they're buryinga little too deep.
If they're just a little bit,you know, above ground, either
way, if they would have hitbetween the trucks, it would
have messed up some people.
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Well that rooster, that roostertail that popped for all for
those things were just it wasjust I just remember seeing it
go straight up, and it was I wasjust like, oh man, that was that
was crazy to see, anyways.
SPEAKER_04 (16:57):
It's funny how you we could just fucking say
fucking just laugh about itright now, right?
But yeah, I guarantee you thathappened back then, and you see
our faces back then, you wouldthink we're scared little
bitches.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
That was the one that you uh uh it was you I I
took off after the guy.
He was out in the middle of thefield, and I took off after him,
and then uh you and Wade came uhbehind me, but I must have had
an adrenaline dump because I wasout I'm I was not that fast, but
I was out ahead of you guys bylike 200 feet.
(17:31):
Oh yeah.
That's awesome.
Anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yeah, so you got wounded, you got wounded super
early then, because we crossedoh yeah, we crossed the line of
departure on March 6th, and Imean that was the very first
vehicle crossed.
I don't know when, because therewas two convoys, so your convoy
may have crossed even later thanthat.
Uh and the bike IED that thathit your truck was March 20th,
(17:58):
so 14 days later.
SPEAKER_04 (17:59):
It was our it was our actual, I want to see our
first real combat mission.
It was the very first one we andand it well quit and after it
happened.
Funny story, right?
Uh, you know, because we'retalking about Sakaki earlier,
yeah, right?
Before it just happened.
Well, me and him got in a fighton ship, a fist fight on ship.
Yeah.
Like and of course, Gunny uh,we're with uh Gunny Coleman was
(18:23):
our you know Gunny at the time,right?
When he got mad at me, whereblah blah blah.
Well, fast forward, we went toIraq and I got hit.
And when I came back toHurricane Point after getting
patched up, he's the first guy Isaw.
And he comes running to me,gives me a big old hug, and he's
like, I'm so glad you're okay.
He's like, Fuck, you had meworried.
(18:45):
And I was thinking to myself,dude, we just had we just got
fist fights not too long ago,but appreciate it.
Thank you.
But but yeah, it was real earlyin the deal.
That's why we're I was always soupset that Warth got hurt on our
very first mission.
Like it was our I I want to say,I mean, we got there, and it was
(19:05):
like a week and a half, almosttwo weeks later, he got hurt.
SPEAKER_00 (19:07):
Yeah, you know, so it was just like I think I I
until you said that, uh, I I Ihad forgotten that, but I think
you are correct.
I think that might have been ourlike very first non-left seat,
right seat from like yeah,because we went out with yeah,
just us ourselves.
SPEAKER_04 (19:27):
It was, you know, uh uh well he was Stats Ryan at the
time, Stats Ryan Cook, yeah, andhe was leading the whole
platoon, and and you know, Ithink Escabel was with us and
Reeves, you know, and just theteam leaders and and the teams,
you know what I mean?
So just like I I I want to thinknow we probably made that
(19:49):
mistake of going back the sameway we shouldn't have, because
we're not supposed to.
I mean, like they train you notto go take the same route twice,
and I'm thinking that that'swhat we did because we already
passed that point once, and thenwe turned back around and went
down there again, and boom, youknow.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
That was uh I had um part of that was we were still
getting used to the city, and Iremember uh Staff Sergeant Cook
at the time was very, very awareof not wanting to get lost in
the city.
Like that was that was he had methat was the number one reason
(20:29):
why he wanted me to be thedriver is uh he absolutely did
not want to get lost in Ramadiuh for the first couple of times
until he started gettingfamiliar with the streets.
And so I uh if I remembercorrectly, we had whip back, we
were whipping back aroundbecause we weren't a hundred
percent confident of well howthe roads were gonna come back
(20:50):
up.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
So now for the first thirty days, we had the official
map.
That were one in 25,000 scale,they were so zoomed out you
couldn't see 80% of the roadsthat were even in Ramadi.
All you could see was that themajor roads.
And so if it wasn't Nova orRacetrack or Michigan or Easy
(21:12):
Street or any of that, like ifit wasn't any of the major ones,
it wasn't on there.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
That's right.
That and I I I forgot about thatpart.
And that's why, and that's whybecause I think we had gotten I
think we got had gotten calledto go back for some reason.
Like we were supposed to likelink up to something.
And that's why we had tried torun.
And I don't remember.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, we got baptized early,that's for sure.
(21:40):
I remember uh that because thatwas also when we were holding
that uh right afterwards, youknow, when they were
consolidating casualties and umgoing to push off to combat
outpost.
I remember holding the onestreet, and there's a lot of
people coming up that streetthat we were holding back and
they were throwing rocks at us.
SPEAKER_04 (21:57):
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm I'm glad it was just rocksbecause oh well, I was hoping to
throw some 556 around downthere, but we you know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Well, that was that was that was the hard part.
Well, and that was the hard Iremember very, very specifically
having to make the decision likethis is they're not technically
escalating.
We need to not engage.
Yeah, so that was you know, butthat was hard.
That was that was a very harddecision, um, especially since
you know we knew that Worth hadgotten hurt so bad.
SPEAKER_04 (22:30):
That was so was I because I mean Warth was my
roommate.
Wars was my roommate, Savage wasmy roommate.
Savage was was my roommate atOkinawa.
Warth was in my roommate, youknow, uh homeside, and then back
back when we got back from uhIraq.
I mean, it was so funny.
It was like that quick littlestory with him where when we got
(22:52):
back, we became roommates again.
And Worth had that prostheticglass eye that only moved a
little bit, you know.
So like when I first saw him, Iwas like, hey Wars, what's going
on?
He gave me a hug and I was like,wait a minute, I was like, fuck,
and he's he's like, don't bestaring in my fucking eye, and
I'm like, look at me.
And he looked like I'll move myhead and he would look, and his
(23:13):
eye would move just slightly,and then like in the like the
other eye would move all theway, and the other one moved
slightly.
I thought that's just toofucking weird, dude.
I was like, you need to takethat shit out.
You know, put some because likehe had multiple eyeballs, you
know, for like he could justtake out and put different color
in, and I'm like, damn.
That's just gross.
I told him, we looking at me nomore.
(23:36):
Yeah, but he's a good guy.
I wish I would have kept intouch with him, but you know 90%
of the guys I wish I would Iwould have kept in double touch
with.
SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
But no, I feel you on that.
There's a there's a couple guysthat I'm slowly trying to get,
I'm using uh friends of youknow, family.
I'm trying to track them downbecause I kind of remember what
hometown they were from andtrying to trying to see what I
can do to resurrect maybe aconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Yeah, that'd be good.
I wanna you know, hear back, seehow they're doing.
SPEAKER_04 (24:14):
How um how they grew up, I guess we wanna say, since
we were kids back then.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
I've always shaved my head.
You can't see the gray hair, andyou can't get any more bald when
you're already bald.
SPEAKER_04 (24:38):
So yeah, so that's so that's uh what I actually
remember, you know, about thatday with Worth in the bike.
That was uh it was an ugly timebecause like you know, like you
said, it was our first mission,and you know our first mission
that someone got hurt, I guess.
You know, because I do rememberour first raid.
(24:59):
Mustard, do you remember that?
Yeah, I do.
Go out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
You tell the story though.
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
I remember when I I I'm I'm a I I I'm I remember it
was late at night, maybe two,three o'clock in the morning.
I don't fucking remember, but itwas late, and we geared up, take
off.
Well, we're supposed to likethere they're supposed to ram
the fucking gate in, and we'resupposed to like fucking SWAT,
break in there, and rush inthere and be all tactical and
(25:25):
badass, and fucking everythingjust went wrong.
Like, I'm talking about from thefucking moment we left fucking
camp to hitting that fence, andthen they made so much noise, we
might as well set a fuckingbullhorn and be like, hey, we're
here, you know, like fuckingstart shooting at us, who cares,
right?
But uh, and then I I remember Idon't know who it was, uh Cook
(25:48):
or whoever, but he was like,just get on the fucking trucks
and start jumping the fuckingthe because it was like a it was
like a uh C Man wall orsomething, I don't know what so
we're just jumping over.
And the whole time I wasthinking to myself, man, if they
really want to start picking usoff.
Yeah, that's the time in goodway, and then we just raided the
(26:10):
house and tore everything tobits, you know, because we got
intel, found like 1 AK, youknow.
An old man was in there, lookedlike he'd been beaten up by
Saddam, you know, like he hadbruises all over his back and
you know, scars and stuff, andthen he had little prayer bees
he was praying on, and we feltso bad, and they're all sleeping
(26:31):
in one room.
We kind of tore up his house alittle bit to look for anything,
we found nothing.
Then they come to find out thatwe got bad intel and we raided a
wrong house.
Uh fuck that was I remember thatwas our first raid, and I felt
so bad for that old man becausehe was legit scared.
There was like 20 Marines insidehis house just walking around
(26:53):
like they own the place, likeyou know what I mean, and
pointing guns at everybody andputting the women in one room,
the men in one, and you know,detaining them the men, and then
you know, I think the youngestperson we took to the detention
center was like 15 or 16.
Like, yeah, I I have like mydaughter's 17.
Imagine you know, six16-year-old being taken by a
(27:16):
bunch of Marines with M16s andyou know, fucking guys just
wearing face masks because theyjust think they're fucking cool,
just scaring people.
I mean, fuck man, you know, likeI always feel bad about that.
I mean, and we rated a bunch ofhouses over there.
Remember, oh no, I got that.
That one always stuck with me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
No, we that was that one, that one in particular.
Uh I remember we were do youremember it?
SPEAKER_04 (27:41):
This kind of like the same way, because that's
what I kind of remember.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
No, I I think you did a great uh that was the only
thing that I would add is Iremember after I think that's
the one that we didn't we nevergot the rammed it open.
And uh when I it was you and I,there was a couple of us that
got over the first, and I wentover to the gate to try to
unlock the gate so everybodyelse could get in, but we had
(28:04):
rammed it enough that it wasjam, it was jammed towards us
towards them like we like I meanand I also remember when we
first when we were first gettingin there, we were trying to be
all like you said, tactical, butwe didn't like there's no depth
perception with NVGs.
And so finally I remember I atleast I I don't know who was
(28:25):
with me, but there was anotherguy, and I was like, take these
off and turn on the lights.
And I was just flipped, justended up flipping on the lights
just so we could see, and I waslike, this is I'm not gonna get
shot because I don't I've nevertrained with NVGs on.
SPEAKER_04 (28:37):
Yeah, and so yeah, it was it was like and that was
funny.
Like I I mean it was it wasfunny now, but I I feel bad for
the family because they reallyhad nothing to do with it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
And that but and that was that was something that
I did try to take whenever wedid do the raids, was you know,
although uh go in therebelieving that there's bad guys,
and we did get into somescuffles um because there was
some bad guys.
SPEAKER_04 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean there was.
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
I mean but try to I I always tried to be at least
respectful to the women and thekids and stuff like that.
And actually, uh as a crazy sidenote, um, years later, um, when
I was living in DC, I would doum talks at the at the schools
about being in the military andstuff like that.
(29:27):
And um, and uh it was like thisis 2011 maybe.
And I go to a school and I'mdoing my spiel, and um this this
girl raises her hand in the backof the class and she said, uh
what when were you over there?
And I said, 2004.
She said Ren Mermadi.
(29:48):
She said, and yeah, and andshe's like, actually, I think I
remember you.
You said your name's Musr,because I don't know if you
remember this, but Muser meansEgypt in Arabic.
Like, and so you know, it's kindof a memorable name.
And she actually uh rememberedme uh because we had done a raid
(30:09):
at her house and had taken heruh uncle, and I was like, Oh
shit, this is you know, likethat's intense to have this
conversation in the classroom,you know, like there's a bunch
of juniors and stuff like that.
What are you doing here, though?
Yeah, well, no, well, and that'swhen and then and and and I was
like, Are you okay?
Is everything fine?
And as it turned out, what itwas, she said, No, I'm fine.
(30:30):
Um, that was scary, but it myuncle was a bad guy and he was
attacking you guys, and you hewas there, you guys took him,
and now we're refugees becausemy family turned him over and we
had to get taken out, and so shewas a refugee because she had
been yeah, she's fine.
(30:52):
Yeah, no, that was uh that was alittle surreal moment.
SPEAKER_04 (30:58):
Yeah, that's actually really cool though.
I mean, that's that's I don'tthink I had talked to anybody
that was from every time weraided, I just kept my mouth
shut.
Well, I that because I had thatdamn stuttering fucking more I
stuttered more in Iraq than Idid my whole fucking life.
We knew what you meant.
(31:19):
You didn't remember that uh Ithink we're a night QRF and we
got we got hit with like rocketsor some shit, right?
It was like we found like someweird makeshift rocket deal.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
It looked like uh North Side of Nova, yep.
Yeah, the angle iron.
You're talking about the onethat's the angle iron that they
had welded together.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:37):
And like I I remember always we were looking
for the guy, so we're likescattered and we're walking down
like some kind of grassy knollarea, like it was grassy, and
they gave me the radio, and Iwas running next to Escobar
because Escobar was driving atruck and I was trying to I was
trying to uh like communicate sohe could drive and I can and I
was like kind of jogging next tothe truck.
(31:58):
We're going very fast, but Ikept stuttering so much that
Escobo was like, you fuckingstuttering bitch, give me the
goddamn radio and just fuck awayfrom me, blah blah blah.
And I'm like, fuck and likeafter that, they they took away
my mic for like a week, like Iguess punishment or some crazy
shit.
So I'm like, what the fuck?
Hello man, that was yeah, but II remember that one too.
(32:22):
We we I don't think we caughtthe guys, but we caught that
weird angled iron, you know,that they're shooting at us with
or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
We uh if if if I rem if I remember correctly, um we
didn't capture the guys becausewe sh they got killed when the
north tower engaged the vehicle.
SPEAKER_04 (32:44):
You see, could and that's what I you know kind of
remember with them.
I don't want to say because Iwas like, no, I don't know,
because we didn't see them.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
We we we recovered the um the apparatus that they
used to fire the rockets at usand also found the the the wires
because they had a and then thecar battery.
Yeah.
Um but the north tower startedto engage them, and uh they
jumped in the vehicle, and Ithink I think they I think they,
if I remember correctly, theytook the vehicle out.
(33:12):
Yeah, yeah, I don't remembervery well, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
Yeah, it was uh Mc Mackenzie and Latham were on the
North Bridge post and spotted uhthe rockets hit Blue Diamond,
and they'd hit they had also hitus, but the they had just hit
Blue Diamond right when Lathamand Mackenzie spotted the point
of origin and they lit it upwith a 240.
And to my knowledge, I know theydisabled the truck, I know they
(33:37):
killed one person, but I don'tknow the rest of the story.
And and Latham told uh the restthat he had known, and you guys
went out and recovered the therocket apparatus and I guess
search fields.
I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
But yeah, we we we patrolled the north side of uh
the Euphrates for a while tryingto kick up something more, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (33:57):
Yeah, it was uh pretty intense too, you know,
because it was night time.
So we I mean it sucked at nightbecause MVGs suck, everything is
just flat.
You know, you you can't bestealthy with MVGs on.
This is not saying fucking theTom Clancy movie, like you know
what I mean.
You're not gonna sit there andbe stealthy with MVGs, so this
(34:19):
up.
A lot of us just took them off.
Yep, and we're just walkingblind ourselves, like, whatever
we hit, we hit like it is whatit is at at this point.
So yeah, I've got to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah, I remember getting to the point of like
even with being the especiallybeing the vehicle commander, not
running with my NVGs on whilewe're driving.
I felt like I could see better,which is just with my night
vision, even with the blackoutson.
Um the stupid NVGs.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
But well, we just didn't have any of the extra
gear that goes with NVGs.
We didn't have lasers, we didn'thave IR flashlights, we didn't
have really any of that shit.
So we just had moonlight, andthen we had most of us had
monoculars too.
We didn't even have binocular uhNVGs.
I don't know about you, but mostof my platoon only had
(35:09):
monoculars, which is even worse.
I remember having a pet two formy MVGs.
SPEAKER_04 (35:16):
Oh nice, but I like like like I said, that's only to
shoot at night, you know,they're still not gonna be able
to walk in them.
And who would want to walk andshoot at night with MVGs on?
You're you know what I mean?
You're gonna trip over and shootyourself, like you know, that's
not you know, or shoot somebodyelse, like you know, so you
don't want that shooting in yourconscience, like you know what I
(35:38):
mean.
So it's like there's there's nopoint of having a pet two on
your it's just to look cool, Iguess.
Fuck, I don't know.
I had it on mine, but I neverused it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Yeah, I mean it would have been nice to be able
to mark areas of targets andshit like that, but I don't
know.
I think we had one for our wholeplatoon, we never used it.
Yeah, so that was uh well afterWorth got wounded, and then you
guys, let's see, as far as thatraid goes, that was probably I
mean, that was definitely afterApril.
(36:06):
What do you remember of April?
SPEAKER_04 (36:08):
I don't not really much, man, because we we we
didn't go out as much as y'alldid.
Yeah, because we were night QRF.
Yeah, that's what I remember.
I remember a lot of us went out,but a lot of us went out in
separate times.
Like we didn't go out, you know,like how Rainmaker and y'all was
(36:28):
going out at the end of the day,y'all stay out all day.
We we we went out in differentyou know, times with different
people when kids we were like Isaid, night QRF at the time.
So we would go out a little bithere.
I think I went out on theseventh with like Cook and uh uh
McLeod.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Well, well, we were sp well just for clarity, if
you're talking specificallyabout like the the fourth,
fifth, sixth that that thebattle of Vermont, we were on
camp guard that during thatyeah, okay, there it is, during
that endeavor.
And so I know that first day,none of us went out, but I know
(37:08):
a lot of you guys got grabbedfor the other days.
SPEAKER_04 (37:13):
Yes, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like we didn't I feltuncomfortable because I went out
with not my not my not myplatoon, like not my not the
guys that I know what you knowwhat we trained to do and what
we did already being there for amonth or so or whatever, you
know what I mean?
So it was uh like I went out,bam, and then normally when when
(37:36):
we went out, it was more to itwas for like body count, like I
guess to go grab you knowwounded Marines or or whatever,
but it was just intense becauseit's hard to shoot out of a
window, you know what I mean?
So you're just getting targetedby rooftops and shit, like you
know what I mean?
And it was it wasn't fun.
(37:56):
I mean, I imagine I can onlyimagine the guys that are on the
field stuck until of course wegot there and you know helped
them out.
That was good.
Like I like doing that because II like to help out that way when
we went in there and grabbedpeople out and brought them
back, you know.
Of course they just ambled upand went right back out, but you
know, whatever.
Just to be the you know what Imean, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
We did a lot of we did a lot of raids for the
battalion, a lot.
SPEAKER_04 (38:23):
Um sixty uh sixty-two of them.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:26):
Um I remember uh uh wider that told me that one
time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Yep, yeah.
We we ended up doing 62 of them.
I ended up doing I ended upgetting pulled over to do a some
for the battalion too.
So I did it with golf companyand Fox and stuff like that.
But yeah.
Um actually you uh when when wasthe uh the mission when we were
(38:51):
coming back from combat outpostwith uh Kennedy and Booker.
Oh and we got shot at.
Do you remember this, Rocha?
When Booker jumped out and gutshot the shit guy that shot the
RPG, and then he went he went hewent John Wick on on uh Ramadi
(39:12):
for a little while, while uhthen we had to go track down the
guy that got gut shot, and I andI uh ended up.
SPEAKER_04 (39:20):
It wasn't I remember it because he pulled me and you.
unknown (39:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:24):
And we ran down this damn alleyway with him because
he wouldn't stop, and there wasfucking blood everywhere, and he
didn't shoot him in the thing,he shot him in the throat.
And then uh he shot him in thethroat, and it looked like it
didn't look like one of thosefucking Jason Voorhees murder
scenes where someone getsstabbed or whatever, and there's
like like the we we found himthrough the blood trail.
(39:46):
Like you guys, I guess I feel itwas hitting hitting them.
He was just like walk walkingaround because I remember coming
up to like it was like twodouble doors, but they were kind
of like a like a garage typelooking deal.
Uh-huh.
And then when we go in there,he's on the floor huddled up on
his side, like holding it, andit's just fucking it's still
gushing out blood.
And Sergeant Major's like, thisis all this is the last thing
(40:08):
you're gonna see, is my uglyface or my ugly mug or some shit
like that.
And he's just we're juststanding over him, and they're
calling the doc.
And the doc was like, There'snothing fucking we could do,
like, am I gonna do about it?
I mean, we so we of course theytry to help, whatever, but then
I guess he died because Iremember putting him in the back
of my vehicle.
I think it was your vehicle atthe time, or who was it, but he
(40:29):
was in the back of it layingdown.
It wasn't mine, but and I waslike, man, I don't want to sit
back there with him because thatwas the first real casualty that
we actually saw the eyes fall.
And and they put on face uplooking at us, and I'm like, his
eyes didn't even so like what,you know, I don't want him
looking at me.
So I kept on, I kept on lookingdown, looking at him, but then I
(40:50):
was like trying not to becauseit's like a I don't want him to
jump up like a fucking zombie.
I was so scared.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Yeah, that was pretty early in the deployment
too.
That was April 1st.
Uh I remember there was a bunchof April Fool's jokes about it
too.
But they also it's in thatunremitting book as well.
They they tell the story, butthey forget to put in the part
about uh 81s being there andthat's uh pulling security and
making sure the sergeant majordoesn't get killed.
SPEAKER_04 (41:17):
That was uh we had to run with them because this
dude just ran off by himself.
He didn't get fucked, he justtook off.
And we're like, and then he liketurns around and me and Muster
are like we just ran with them,like fuck, I don't know what to
do.
Like this dude, and everyone'spulling security while he just
ran off.
Yep.
So we're like, holy shit, runwith him.
You know, we just ran with them.
We just took him off.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
I very I very I very specifically remember after we
dismounted and saw him running,and you were getting out of the
you I was getting out of the Iwas already a vehicle, I was a
vehicle commander at that point,and I had gotten out and you had
jumped out of the the back ofthe truck that was in front of
me, and that's when I saw thesergeant major take off, and I
(41:58):
just grabbed you and I was like,We're following.
I was like, I remember I hit Ihit the bike real quick and I
was like, I don't know wherehe's going, but I'm gonna follow
Sergeant Major.
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
Yeah, I remember that.
That was uh that wasn't thefirst time we did that, though.
Remember, uh, I want to say wefollowed uh Cook.
Was it Cook that shot someoneback in the head?
And he they took pop shots atus.
That and that Bronco was withus.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
No, no, no, no.
Okay, yeah.
Okay, so um somebody I can'tremember exactly, but I mean
okay, somebody so so if I I Ithink this is the same one.
So this is the this is the onewhere uh there were some guys
from like Kenya or somethinglike that that had that had come
up.
I can't remember where it was,Sudans, Kenya, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
(42:51):
Um it was like an all-expensivepaid trip to get up to like
Syria, get some training, andthen they got dropped off and
they were supposed to go to asafe house.
Yeah.
Well, there was like there waslike 12, 12 of them, 14 of them
or whatever.
And this was when there was acurfew, right?
And so we come around and we'reup on Nova, up by Nova, and
we're coming back down and we'regonna link up.
(43:12):
And uh there's there's these 14guys standing on a street
corner, obviously not Iraqi, andwe're like, this is past curfew,
what's going on?
And as we kind of rolled up onthem all of a sudden, they see
us and they all try to take off.
Some of them stayed, but a bunchof them took off.
And it was you, uh, Cook,Escavel, and and myself took off
(43:34):
running after a couple of theguys that ran down the alley.
And I remember I posted up, Iwas I hit the prone coming
around the corner because hecame around and and I was gonna
shoot him.
And then Escavel stacked behindme, and then Cook was in the
standing, and we all shot at theguy.
I have no idea who hit him, butwe ran up on that poor bastard,
(43:55):
and he got clipped in the backof the head, and uh, he was
still alive and he was in thatshit water and just aspirating
on that.
I and I just I I remember Iflipped him over real quick when
I realized that he was breathingthat shit.
And uh Gunny left.
I think he left with you becauseI remember I was there with
(44:16):
Escovel with the guy, and wewere like, I don't I there's
nothing I can do for you, man.
And um I think you went and Ithink you guys went back to go
get Doc.
But that's when we've but butthe reason why I remember that
story in particular is thatafter we after when we were
debriefing afterwards, werealized that uh when we took
(44:41):
off with Escavel, myself, andGunny gone, we had just
eliminated basically all of ourlike all of our leadership left.
The rest of the platoon.
And we were like, we can't gochase people down.
We have to send people.
We can't have all the leadershiprunning, which was a pro which,
(45:04):
you know, it's a it's a good andbad thing because you know, I
mean, it's what Kennedy andBooker were doing too.
It's what you know, we we had awe had a tendency and a and a
ethos inside of 2-4 of like thethe the leaders wanted to fight
just as much as you know, likewe didn't have any wilting
little daisies.
Um and we didn't we didn't donone and all that.
SPEAKER_04 (45:24):
Oh, I can name like one, but I I I I'm I'm I'm not
going to, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Well I won't say nothing untillater on.
You know, that's what we'resaying.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
We'll drop you you'll drop names when we're not
recording.
I appreciate I I I I Iappreciate the discretion,
friend.
SPEAKER_04 (45:45):
Um that was I I remember those two.
And then one is that kind ofremember me and you running
chasing someone too.
Jumped off like the secondfloor, uh second floor.
I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
Like are you talking?
Are you talking about when youand I got separated?
SPEAKER_04 (46:06):
Yes.
What were you doing?
We're doing a raid.
I don't remember.
I just remember running downthat way with you.
You're like, hey, what the fuck?
We're by ourselves.
unknown (46:15):
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_04 (46:16):
We're like a few blocks down, we don't know what
the fuck was going on.
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
No, I that's one of my more vivid memories, buddy.
So well, that one was uh we weredoing a huge coordinated hit on
a mosque, and it was the firstbig mosque.
We talked, we talked about it inanother episode, but what what
the the short version is is wewere gonna do a major mosque.
We we brought out a bunch ofelements to do this because we
were gonna actually send some ofour interpreters into that
(46:42):
mosque.
And we had a guy with a videocamera and uh was uh one of the
interpreters, and uh somethinghappened, and I don't remember.
Well, the guy inside the mosqueshot, and there was a bunch of
pan pandemonium happened there,but there was a guy that we
started chasing for some reason,and I don't remember why we were
(47:03):
chasing him down, but it was itwas the same night, and he was
just outside of our ability tograb, like he was only a few
feet, and we chased this guy forfucking ever and we kept and we
jumped like one or two walls,like it wasn't just down alleys,
we had jumped.
I I remember boosting up over awall, and I jumped over the
wall, and then we jumped overanother one, and we thought he
(47:25):
went into this house, and so wekicked down the door, went into
the house, and I remember we gotup on top of the roof of the
place, and all of a sudden I waslike, Fuck, I don't know where
we're at, and we're really faraway, and we were outside of
Calm too, because those littlestupid squad mics only went like
(47:46):
four feet, and so I rememberlooking at you and being like,
We're in danger, like we'regonna like we need to be very
quiet.
SPEAKER_04 (47:57):
I don't I remember most of that, but I'm like, Wow,
why were we doing that?
Like, I don't remember what thefuck our adrenaline got up and
we were tasting down.
I don't even remember how we gotback to tell you the truth.
I picked I I know they fuckingjust gave us a ride back.
I don't know, like I think wedon't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
Be like, hey, we're lost.
Uh could you give us a ridehome?
SPEAKER_04 (48:20):
No, like I really don't remember that.
It's like I wish I knew I I wishI could remember those details
like that, but I mean it's Imean it's probably that I don't,
so I guess we did you know.
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
No, I I don't remember, I don't remember
picking, I remember leaving thehouse and starting to work our
way back.
I don't remember exactly gettingback, but I definitely remember
chasing the dude down and thenhaving that moment of epiphany
uh with you and I standing onthat roof being like, this is
not good.
This is this is not good at all.
SPEAKER_04 (48:54):
We're lost in a fucking different country in
Romani.
Fuck, what else is going on,Ronnie?
That's too funny.
That was good.
That was a good little story.
I actually forgot about thatuntil you told me about that
last year at the reunion.
Oh, and I was like, oh shit.
Oh, and it just I kind of cameback a little bit.
Oh fucking dude.
(49:16):
Oh man.
That was that was good.
I liked it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi
part episode.
Make sure you listen to the restof the story.
All right, buddy.
Uh we start with uh having uhyou do a quick introduction for
yourself.
Tell us uh your name, what rankyou were in Ramadi in 2004, and
your primary uh job over there.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17):
Um Jamie Rocha.
I was uh last corporal at thetime of Ramadi.
And uh I was a I was a teamleader for uh with who?
It's been so long.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
I want to say hammer baby.
SPEAKER_04 (01:31):
Yeah, well, yeah, but I don't even know who was
over me.
I think it was like Reeves orsomebody.
I don't remember to tell you thetruth.
SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
You're in my truck a lot.
Huh?
You're in my truck a lot too.
Yeah, we didn't have we didn'treally have set truck teams.
I mean, it it changed dependingon the mission.
But I know you rolled out withReeves a lot and you rolled out
with me.
SPEAKER_04 (01:50):
Yeah, and you know, with Gwizdak and uh uh Stadleman
Worth.
So yeah, and uh yeah, I was justuh a team leader.
I was actually their teamleader, Worth Gwizdak and Wolf.
There you go.
So that's Wolf, I haven't heardthat name in a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Wolf in Ohio, I think.
SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
But is he funny story?
Just real quick, I was uh I wentto the 2-4 associate reunion lat
uh uh a few months ago, I'msorry.
Yeah, and uh um some of hisboots were there.
Oh, really?
And uh they knew that I was uhhis senior marina, they kept on
asking all these questions abouthim, like how was he?
(02:33):
Because he was real hard withus, or you know, I was like,
Wolf?
Are we talking about the samewolf, right?
Like the one that was real timidwith me and like scared and
wouldn't you know, wouldn'tspeak up and like, oh yeah, but
he kept to himself, but everyonewas kind of like don't really
talk to the guy with us like whyhe was the sweetest guy you ever
(02:53):
meet.
Like that was funny.
SPEAKER_00 (02:56):
Well, yeah, but you pick up those rockers if they're
uh you pick up those chevrons,you uh you turn into a different
person.
SPEAKER_04 (03:02):
I I guess so, yeah.
I think he was serious orcorporal, I'm not too sure.
Like after I got out, but I meansure he picked up so that was
cool of them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
So let's uh let's start at the beginning.
What do you remember of uhgetting over to uh over to
Ramadi?
SPEAKER_04 (03:20):
Huh.
I remember being on a rememberhow we flew over there was it
like a 46 or something or or a52?
I don't know what it was, but itwas the worst flight ever.
We were all sitting in our gearwith our guns facing down, and
we could it was like a damn near18-hour flight, and then we
stopped in Jersey and a planemessed up, and we circled back
(03:45):
around and we had to stay inJersey for like three or four
days or however long it was, Ican't remember.
It was snowing over there.
And then we finally get there,and we get to Kuwait to
climatize, and then pretty muchbust into Ramadi a month later.
That was a worse way to go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Yeah.
Uh actually going back to thethe jersey piece, and when you
said the snowing, I forgot aboutthat part.
And uh the snowing, the reasonwhy that what what I remembered
of that is is there was ahandful of guys that had never
seen snow before.
Yeah, I was one of them.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
Yeah.
South Texas, a little snow overhere, probably.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Well, I just got I got uh I just got 13 inches
yesterday.
And so uh I'm I'm used to I wasmy relationship with snow is a
little bit different.
So I thought that that thatalways struck me.
Uh like it got to number youguys that were like, what is
this stuff?
SPEAKER_04 (04:43):
Yeah, no, it got to 52 degrees over here, and I'm
freezing my ass off.
Dude, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
That's crazy.
You had to deploy to the MiddleEast to see snow.
That was that would not be uhthat would have been on the
checklist at all.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
Yeah, I know.
I mean and then didn't we stopin a um I think we stopped
somewhere to refuel, I think itwas what uh Ramson Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
So no, Alaska was on the way to uh Okinawa, but uh
yeah, that on this particulartrip we stopped a couple of
times, like you talked about.
We stayed in Jersey while theyreplaced the engine.
Then we made a sudden stop inCanada of all places, and then
we flew over and made, Ibelieve, a pit stop in Shannon
(05:24):
Air Force Base, if I remembercorrectly, but we didn't get off
the plane, and then we stoppedat Romstein, Germany, where we
did get off the plane and wentinto those little cold ass uh
metal buildings.
I don't know what they were.
Yeah, and then we flew intoKuwait.
SPEAKER_04 (05:38):
You see, it's it's it's crazy because I remember
this now this now that you'retalking about it, but I don't I
don't remember small details.
Like I guess it was so long ago,and yeah, uh my memory as good
as used to be from all the damnIEDs over there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
You know, so yeah.
Well, some some of the art uh Ithink uh Nylan and I have the
benefit also of we've beentalking to guys, and so some of
these memories are more to theforefront because we literally
just talked about them, and souh it's not that we have that
much better of a memory, but sowe're so you got so you're
(06:19):
talking about Camp Victory.
Um do you remember how you gotup to Ramadi from Camp Victory?
SPEAKER_04 (06:27):
There was uh there was a group convoy and uh and uh
uh I want to say we were theones in the in the five-ton
trucks, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
I don't know.
I went up I went up in uh one ofthe earliest convoys, um, and I
was a driver going up.
Oh, you drove no I was in theback.
Yeah, and then there was a andthen the the main element came
up separately, and so you guyscame up in five tons, is what
you remember?
SPEAKER_04 (06:53):
Yeah, I remember going because I do have a quick
video of like everyone loadingup on five tons and just behind
little sandbags, you know, likepretty much gonna do anything
besides just nothing, prettymuch.
But yeah, I I remember gettingon those and then heading out.
(07:14):
I can't remember how long thedrive was, though.
For the life of me, I don'tremember how long how long we
were back at those humpies, butto me it felt like a damn
lifetime.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Fuck, you know, felt like hours in the back of that
thing.
More than a day, two days,probably.
SPEAKER_04 (07:29):
Scared and I know what's gonna happen, you know.
The first time in a country likethat that don't want us there.
Yeah, you know, that's prettypretty wild.
Yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's funny how it felt so long because if you went
right now and drove a regularstandard car down the highway
from Kuwait border to Ramadi, itwould take you six and a half
hours.
It's really not that far.
But we drove 40 miles an hourbecause those seven tons
couldn't drive at 80 miles anhour the whole time.
(08:03):
And we stopped in Scania was thename of that place where we
refueled and stayed the night.
Uh, and so it felt like forever.
It felt like we were driving,yeah, I don't know, all day and
all night.
SPEAKER_04 (08:16):
Yeah, so see, I I don't to tell you the truth, I
don't even remember stopping andstaying anywhere.
Yep.
I just remember just pretty muchit felt like forever in the back
of that that 710 or and thenjust getting off and being in a
hurricane point and then lookingat our hooch and saying, What
the fuck am I gonna be you knowsitting here for?
(08:39):
There's no fucking like there'sa damn near there's paper
covering on the top of us andthe canvas roof, yeah.
There's no roof.
I was like, man, we ain't gonnalast long here.
I was thinking to myself likeJesus.
Oh well, we're gonna startwriting them them letters, huh?
So but yeah, but yeah, that'sthat's what I remember how we
(09:04):
got there.
It was two those seven tons andwhatever, and I just it's like
at the time it felt so long, butthen like now that I think about
it, it felt like I was justthere in a blink of an eye to
tell you the truth to thembecause I don't remember
stopping.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
Yeah, that's I don't know, I don't know that we
necessarily stayed all the wayovernight, but we definitely
stayed for a very long time atthat refueling point.
So and a lot of guys caught anap.
I obviously didn't because I waswandering around planning shit,
but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:37):
Yeah, that's that's what I could you know remember
about all that, you know, as faras getting there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Sure.
And then you would have been wewould have we started rolling
into some early uh patrols andstuff like that.
Um you would have been in theback of you would have I was
with uh Gunny Cook at first.
He was my vehicle commander andI was a driver.
And then you first truck.
And that was our we were firsttruck, and then you were right,
(10:05):
then you were always secondtruck.
Yes.
And that was Warth as thevehicle commander.
Yeah.
And then you would because hegot hit uh early early on.
And that was probably our thatwas our first probably I don't I
don't know if you remember anymissions prior to that, but what
do you remember of when Worthgot hit?
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Oh, that was crazy.
Uh um I remember almosteverything.
Like, damn.
I remember going, we actuallyWorth wasn't driving.
Stadleman was driving.
Worth it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
Right.
I uh yeah, was a vehicle.
unknown (10:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:40):
Me and Reeves were in the back with I don't even
know who else.
And Gwizdak wasn't was thegunner.
I don't know why they putGwizdak as a gunner, but we sure
did, right?
And uh I remember going on themarket market square, that
market, and it was just fuckingpacked with people.
Just packed.
I mean, we would have to getdown to kind of pushing away
from the truck to and then Iremember circling, and then we
(11:04):
we circled, we did our littlepatrol, whatever, and then we
came back that same route.
And when we got back there, I Iremember there was nothing in
sight, no person, no female, no,no one walking, no nothing.
It was just like dead to theworld, like it wasn't even a
town.
And then I remember we'repassing by, and I do remember
your truck passing a bike, abike, and then I heard over the
(11:30):
radio because I had, you know,one of those uh little uh
headsets, and and and heard overthe radio stop as a possible IED
or something to that nature, youknow.
It was it was something likethat.
Well then the way I was sitting,I was facing a kind of catty
corner, and this thing justfucking blows up.
Boom! And it hits my truck,well, it hits the end of my
(11:53):
truck, so because I'm sitting inthe back of it, and it felt like
it blew me out because youremember that scene in Blackhawk
Down where he gets hit by likean RPG next to him, and then
he's looking up and a guy'strying to talk to him and he
can't hear him.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
His ears are ringing, he's likebells rung.
SPEAKER_04 (12:11):
Yeah, it felt like that because I was on the floor
and I was like, what the fuck?
Right.
I'm like looking around, scaredas shit, my heart's pounding
because it's that was our firstactual when he attacked us,
yeah, right, like personally.
And I was like, what the fuck,right?
And then Reeves is like, hey,get up, get up, and I'm like,
dude, my body fucking hurts.
Like, but I don't know if I gotthrown out of the vehicle or or
(12:33):
what, right?
And then I finally get up, andthat's when uh we hear Warth and
Warthers yelling.
He's just like, I can't see, Ican't see.
So I go over there and I look athim, and I'm like, I don't have
the fucking heart to tell.
I'm like, man, well, you got nofucking eye, like you know, like
because you could see it wasn'tmore of blood, it was more
pussy.
(12:54):
And like you could tell it, itlooked like his eye got
deflated, you know.
So, and then he took off, well,because when he took off his oak
lease, that's like that, likethat's when you could see his
old eye, and there was just itjust looked like it was just
deflated, like pus, white, andall sorts of shit is just coming
down.
And he's like, Does it lookokay?
And I'm like, you know, I mean,I don't know what to tell you,
(13:15):
buddy, but I mean, I couldn'ttell him like you ain't gonna
have that fucking eye no morefor very long, right?
I mean, so and then I doremember, I think I was with
you, Muster.
We uh man, we we put a securityteam around our Humvees and
stuff, and then they took theytook Gwizdak and Worth out of
(13:38):
there because Gwizdak got hit inthe face, like he had a big old
gash on his cheek.
All right, and then they tookthem out of there.
They asked me to leave, but Istayed with Muster, and then we
ended up going to a school, Ithink, right?
Or or a building to like searchit.
unknown (13:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
And then uh we did that, and then as we're coming
down, I was like, man, myfucking arm hurts.
And I think it was you, it waslike, Do you have a fucking
metal rod point out of it?
And that's when I looked down tomy right, right, and there was
like a metal piece hanging on myarm, and then you decided to
pull it out, like break it.
I was like, Oh my god, I saidfuck it, I'm gonna die, you
(14:16):
know.
And it was really nothing, butit was just like no, it wasn't
interesting.
Just grabs it and breaks itbecause it was so hot it didn't
burn.
Yeah, it just made a hole downto my bone, and it wasn't a big
hole, it was just a fucking holeyou could see to my bone.
And you know, so and then afterthat, it was just like, oh my
god, Jamie refused medicalevacuation.
(14:39):
No, bitch.
If I knew I was hit, I wouldn't,I would have left too.
SPEAKER_03 (14:42):
Fuck, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (14:48):
But uh I'm not a hero, I just didn't know.
Yeah, you know, and then but itwas just so because you're like,
oh yeah, look, you got someonesticking out, you just like
grabbed it, but but you didn'tpull it out, you like bent it
and it just broke off because itwas so hot.
And so that's why I had to go.
I think I went to uh uh combatoutpost, and then they dug like
all the rest of the pieces outfor me, like with their fucking
(15:10):
our makeshift docks and stuff.
They just went and they startedjust pouring out small pieces
out of there, yeah.
And I was like, oh man, I don'twant to go back out, but yeah,
so and I always wanted to, likeI was like, what if that would
have hit a few inches up?
It would have hit me right inthe throat, right?
I think that would have been alittle bit worse, dude.
There's a lot of stuff likethat, yeah.
Yeah, you know, like that wouldhave been a little bit worse,
(15:32):
yeah.
Just blood gushing out.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
No, we there is I and I know you.
I mean, the I can I remember acouple of the times that we got
hit where it is absolutely I Idon't know how we made it out of
there just because it was it itshouldn't have happened.
There was that it was lit waythe the this is the one that I
always think about that Ithought was just wild was we
(15:55):
were coming back, and I thinkyou were in my truck on this
one, but nevertheless, it was atleast two, if not three, daisied
IDs that they had buried waslike one five five, but they
buried them too deep, thank god.
Yes, and also that and when theypopped it, it hit exactly in
between the trucks, and so itdidn't actually really hit
(16:17):
anybody, it knocked Wisdak back.
He was on he was on the gun, itknocked him down, but no one
really got hurt, and that one Ialways think about being like if
if if we were just a little bitmore forward, man, that would
have been bad, bad.
SPEAKER_04 (16:34):
If they hadn't buried him too deep, because I
do remember that they're buryinga little too deep.
If they're just a little bit,you know, above ground, either
way, if they would have hitbetween the trucks, it would
have messed up some people.
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Well that rooster, that roostertail that popped for all for
those things were just it wasjust I just remember seeing it
go straight up, and it was I wasjust like, oh man, that was that
was crazy to see, anyways.
SPEAKER_04 (16:57):
It's funny how you we could just fucking say
fucking just laugh about itright now, right?
But yeah, I guarantee you thathappened back then, and you see
our faces back then, you wouldthink we're scared little
bitches.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
That was the one that you uh uh it was you I I
took off after the guy.
He was out in the middle of thefield, and I took off after him,
and then uh you and Wade came uhbehind me, but I must have had
an adrenaline dump because I wasout I'm I was not that fast, but
I was out ahead of you guys bylike 200 feet.
(17:31):
Oh yeah.
That's awesome.
Anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (17:35):
Yeah, so you got wounded, you got wounded super
early then, because we crossedoh yeah, we crossed the line of
departure on March 6th, and Imean that was the very first
vehicle crossed.
I don't know when, because therewas two convoys, so your convoy
may have crossed even later thanthat.
Uh and the bike IED that thathit your truck was March 20th,
(17:58):
so 14 days later.
SPEAKER_04 (17:59):
It was our it was our actual, I want to see our
first real combat mission.
It was the very first one we andand it well quit and after it
happened.
Funny story, right?
Uh, you know, because we'retalking about Sakaki earlier,
yeah, right?
Before it just happened.
Well, me and him got in a fighton ship, a fist fight on ship.
Yeah.
Like and of course, Gunny uh,we're with uh Gunny Coleman was
(18:23):
our you know Gunny at the time,right?
When he got mad at me, whereblah blah blah.
Well, fast forward, we went toIraq and I got hit.
And when I came back toHurricane Point after getting
patched up, he's the first guy Isaw.
And he comes running to me,gives me a big old hug, and he's
like, I'm so glad you're okay.
He's like, Fuck, you had meworried.
(18:45):
And I was thinking to myself,dude, we just had we just got
fist fights not too long ago,but appreciate it.
Thank you.
But but yeah, it was real earlyin the deal.
That's why we're I was always soupset that Warth got hurt on our
very first mission.
Like it was our I I want to say,I mean, we got there, and it was
(19:05):
like a week and a half, almosttwo weeks later, he got hurt.
SPEAKER_00 (19:07):
Yeah, you know, so it was just like I think I I
until you said that, uh, I I Ihad forgotten that, but I think
you are correct.
I think that might have been ourlike very first non-left seat,
right seat from like yeah,because we went out with yeah,
just us ourselves.
SPEAKER_04 (19:27):
It was, you know, uh uh well he was Stats Ryan at the
time, Stats Ryan Cook, yeah, andhe was leading the whole
platoon, and and you know, Ithink Escabel was with us and
Reeves, you know, and just theteam leaders and and the teams,
you know what I mean?
So just like I I I want to thinknow we probably made that
(19:49):
mistake of going back the sameway we shouldn't have, because
we're not supposed to.
I mean, like they train you notto go take the same route twice,
and I'm thinking that that'swhat we did because we already
passed that point once, and thenwe turned back around and went
down there again, and boom, youknow.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
That was uh I had um part of that was we were still
getting used to the city, and Iremember uh Staff Sergeant Cook
at the time was very, very awareof not wanting to get lost in
the city.
Like that was that was he had methat was the number one reason
(20:29):
why he wanted me to be thedriver is uh he absolutely did
not want to get lost in Ramadiuh for the first couple of times
until he started gettingfamiliar with the streets.
And so I uh if I remembercorrectly, we had whip back, we
were whipping back aroundbecause we weren't a hundred
percent confident of well howthe roads were gonna come back
(20:50):
up.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
So now for the first thirty days, we had the official
map.
That were one in 25,000 scale,they were so zoomed out you
couldn't see 80% of the roadsthat were even in Ramadi.
All you could see was that themajor roads.
And so if it wasn't Nova orRacetrack or Michigan or Easy
(21:12):
Street or any of that, like ifit wasn't any of the major ones,
it wasn't on there.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
That's right.
That and I I I forgot about thatpart.
And that's why, and that's whybecause I think we had gotten I
think we got had gotten calledto go back for some reason.
Like we were supposed to likelink up to something.
And that's why we had tried torun.
And I don't remember.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, we got baptized early,that's for sure.
(21:40):
I remember uh that because thatwas also when we were holding
that uh right afterwards, youknow, when they were
consolidating casualties and umgoing to push off to combat
outpost.
I remember holding the onestreet, and there's a lot of
people coming up that streetthat we were holding back and
they were throwing rocks at us.
SPEAKER_04 (21:57):
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm I'm glad it was just rocksbecause oh well, I was hoping to
throw some 556 around downthere, but we you know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Well, that was that was that was the hard part.
Well, and that was the hard Iremember very, very specifically
having to make the decision likethis is they're not technically
escalating.
We need to not engage.
Yeah, so that was you know, butthat was hard.
That was that was a very harddecision, um, especially since
you know we knew that Worth hadgotten hurt so bad.
SPEAKER_04 (22:30):
That was so was I because I mean Warth was my
roommate.
Wars was my roommate, Savage wasmy roommate.
Savage was was my roommate atOkinawa.
Warth was in my roommate, youknow, uh homeside, and then back
back when we got back from uhIraq.
I mean, it was so funny.
It was like that quick littlestory with him where when we got
(22:52):
back, we became roommates again.
And Worth had that prostheticglass eye that only moved a
little bit, you know.
So like when I first saw him, Iwas like, hey Wars, what's going
on?
He gave me a hug and I was like,wait a minute, I was like, fuck,
and he's he's like, don't bestaring in my fucking eye, and
I'm like, look at me.
And he looked like I'll move myhead and he would look, and his
(23:13):
eye would move just slightly,and then like in the like the
other eye would move all theway, and the other one moved
slightly.
I thought that's just toofucking weird, dude.
I was like, you need to takethat shit out.
You know, put some because likehe had multiple eyeballs, you
know, for like he could justtake out and put different color
in, and I'm like, damn.
That's just gross.
I told him, we looking at me nomore.
(23:36):
Yeah, but he's a good guy.
I wish I would have kept intouch with him, but you know 90%
of the guys I wish I would Iwould have kept in double touch
with.
SPEAKER_00 (23:46):
But no, I feel you on that.
There's a there's a couple guysthat I'm slowly trying to get,
I'm using uh friends of youknow, family.
I'm trying to track them downbecause I kind of remember what
hometown they were from andtrying to trying to see what I
can do to resurrect maybe aconversation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
Yeah, that'd be good.
I wanna you know, hear back, seehow they're doing.
SPEAKER_04 (24:14):
How um how they grew up, I guess we wanna say, since
we were kids back then.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
I've always shaved my head.
You can't see the gray hair, andyou can't get any more bald when
you're already bald.
SPEAKER_04 (24:38):
So yeah, so that's so that's uh what I actually
remember, you know, about thatday with Worth in the bike.
That was uh it was an ugly timebecause like you know, like you
said, it was our first mission,and you know our first mission
that someone got hurt, I guess.
You know, because I do rememberour first raid.
(24:59):
Mustard, do you remember that?
Yeah, I do.
Go out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
You tell the story though.
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
I remember when I I I'm I'm a I I I'm I remember it
was late at night, maybe two,three o'clock in the morning.
I don't fucking remember, but itwas late, and we geared up, take
off.
Well, we're supposed to likethere they're supposed to ram
the fucking gate in, and we'resupposed to like fucking SWAT,
break in there, and rush inthere and be all tactical and
(25:25):
badass, and fucking everythingjust went wrong.
Like, I'm talking about from thefucking moment we left fucking
camp to hitting that fence, andthen they made so much noise, we
might as well set a fuckingbullhorn and be like, hey, we're
here, you know, like fuckingstart shooting at us, who cares,
right?
But uh, and then I I remember Idon't know who it was, uh Cook
(25:48):
or whoever, but he was like,just get on the fucking trucks
and start jumping the fuckingthe because it was like a it was
like a uh C Man wall orsomething, I don't know what so
we're just jumping over.
And the whole time I wasthinking to myself, man, if they
really want to start picking usoff.
Yeah, that's the time in goodway, and then we just raided the
(26:10):
house and tore everything tobits, you know, because we got
intel, found like 1 AK, youknow.
An old man was in there, lookedlike he'd been beaten up by
Saddam, you know, like he hadbruises all over his back and
you know, scars and stuff, andthen he had little prayer bees
he was praying on, and we feltso bad, and they're all sleeping
(26:31):
in one room.
We kind of tore up his house alittle bit to look for anything,
we found nothing.
Then they come to find out thatwe got bad intel and we raided a
wrong house.
Uh fuck that was I remember thatwas our first raid, and I felt
so bad for that old man becausehe was legit scared.
There was like 20 Marines insidehis house just walking around
(26:53):
like they own the place, likeyou know what I mean, and
pointing guns at everybody andputting the women in one room,
the men in one, and you know,detaining them the men, and then
you know, I think the youngestperson we took to the detention
center was like 15 or 16.
Like, yeah, I I have like mydaughter's 17.
Imagine you know, six16-year-old being taken by a
(27:16):
bunch of Marines with M16s andyou know, fucking guys just
wearing face masks because theyjust think they're fucking cool,
just scaring people.
I mean, fuck man, you know, likeI always feel bad about that.
I mean, and we rated a bunch ofhouses over there.
Remember, oh no, I got that.
That one always stuck with me.
SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
No, we that was that one, that one in particular.
Uh I remember we were do youremember it?
SPEAKER_04 (27:41):
This kind of like the same way, because that's
what I kind of remember.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
No, I I think you did a great uh that was the only
thing that I would add is Iremember after I think that's
the one that we didn't we nevergot the rammed it open.
And uh when I it was you and I,there was a couple of us that
got over the first, and I wentover to the gate to try to
unlock the gate so everybodyelse could get in, but we had
(28:04):
rammed it enough that it wasjam, it was jammed towards us
towards them like we like I meanand I also remember when we
first when we were first gettingin there, we were trying to be
all like you said, tactical, butwe didn't like there's no depth
perception with NVGs.
And so finally I remember I atleast I I don't know who was
(28:25):
with me, but there was anotherguy, and I was like, take these
off and turn on the lights.
And I was just flipped, justended up flipping on the lights
just so we could see, and I waslike, this is I'm not gonna get
shot because I don't I've nevertrained with NVGs on.
SPEAKER_04 (28:37):
Yeah, and so yeah, it was it was like and that was
funny.
Like I I mean it was it wasfunny now, but I I feel bad for
the family because they reallyhad nothing to do with it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
And that but and that was that was something that
I did try to take whenever wedid do the raids, was you know,
although uh go in therebelieving that there's bad guys,
and we did get into somescuffles um because there was
some bad guys.
SPEAKER_04 (29:04):
Yeah, I mean there was.
SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
I mean but try to I I always tried to be at least
respectful to the women and thekids and stuff like that.
And actually, uh as a crazy sidenote, um, years later, um, when
I was living in DC, I would doum talks at the at the schools
about being in the military andstuff like that.
(29:27):
And um, and uh it was like thisis 2011 maybe.
And I go to a school and I'mdoing my spiel, and um this this
girl raises her hand in the backof the class and she said, uh
what when were you over there?
And I said, 2004.
She said Ren Mermadi.
(29:48):
She said, and yeah, and andshe's like, actually, I think I
remember you.
You said your name's Musr,because I don't know if you
remember this, but Muser meansEgypt in Arabic.
Like, and so you know, it's kindof a memorable name.
And she actually uh rememberedme uh because we had done a raid
(30:09):
at her house and had taken heruh uncle, and I was like, Oh
shit, this is you know, likethat's intense to have this
conversation in the classroom,you know, like there's a bunch
of juniors and stuff like that.
What are you doing here, though?
Yeah, well, no, well, and that'swhen and then and and and I was
like, Are you okay?
Is everything fine?
And as it turned out, what itwas, she said, No, I'm fine.
(30:30):
Um, that was scary, but it myuncle was a bad guy and he was
attacking you guys, and you hewas there, you guys took him,
and now we're refugees becausemy family turned him over and we
had to get taken out, and so shewas a refugee because she had
been yeah, she's fine.
(30:52):
Yeah, no, that was uh that was alittle surreal moment.
SPEAKER_04 (30:58):
Yeah, that's actually really cool though.
I mean, that's that's I don'tthink I had talked to anybody
that was from every time weraided, I just kept my mouth
shut.
Well, I that because I had thatdamn stuttering fucking more I
stuttered more in Iraq than Idid my whole fucking life.
We knew what you meant.
(31:19):
You didn't remember that uh Ithink we're a night QRF and we
got we got hit with like rocketsor some shit, right?
It was like we found like someweird makeshift rocket deal.
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
It looked like uh North Side of Nova, yep.
Yeah, the angle iron.
You're talking about the onethat's the angle iron that they
had welded together.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (31:37):
And like I I remember always we were looking
for the guy, so we're likescattered and we're walking down
like some kind of grassy knollarea, like it was grassy, and
they gave me the radio, and Iwas running next to Escobar
because Escobar was driving atruck and I was trying to I was
trying to uh like communicate sohe could drive and I can and I
was like kind of jogging next tothe truck.
(31:58):
We're going very fast, but Ikept stuttering so much that
Escobo was like, you fuckingstuttering bitch, give me the
goddamn radio and just fuck awayfrom me, blah blah blah.
And I'm like, fuck and likeafter that, they they took away
my mic for like a week, like Iguess punishment or some crazy
shit.
So I'm like, what the fuck?
Hello man, that was yeah, but II remember that one too.
(32:22):
We we I don't think we caughtthe guys, but we caught that
weird angled iron, you know,that they're shooting at us with
or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
We uh if if if I rem if I remember correctly, um we
didn't capture the guys becausewe sh they got killed when the
north tower engaged the vehicle.
SPEAKER_04 (32:44):
You see, could and that's what I you know kind of
remember with them.
I don't want to say because Iwas like, no, I don't know,
because we didn't see them.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
We we we recovered the um the apparatus that they
used to fire the rockets at usand also found the the the wires
because they had a and then thecar battery.
Yeah.
Um but the north tower startedto engage them, and uh they
jumped in the vehicle, and Ithink I think they I think they,
if I remember correctly, theytook the vehicle out.
(33:12):
Yeah, yeah, I don't remembervery well, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
Yeah, it was uh Mc Mackenzie and Latham were on the
North Bridge post and spotted uhthe rockets hit Blue Diamond,
and they'd hit they had also hitus, but the they had just hit
Blue Diamond right when Lathamand Mackenzie spotted the point
of origin and they lit it upwith a 240.
And to my knowledge, I know theydisabled the truck, I know they
(33:37):
killed one person, but I don'tknow the rest of the story.
And and Latham told uh the restthat he had known, and you guys
went out and recovered the therocket apparatus and I guess
search fields.
I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
But yeah, we we we patrolled the north side of uh
the Euphrates for a while tryingto kick up something more, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (33:57):
Yeah, it was uh pretty intense too, you know,
because it was night time.
So we I mean it sucked at nightbecause MVGs suck, everything is
just flat.
You know, you you can't bestealthy with MVGs on.
This is not saying fucking theTom Clancy movie, like you know
what I mean.
You're not gonna sit there andbe stealthy with MVGs, so this
(34:19):
up.
A lot of us just took them off.
Yep, and we're just walkingblind ourselves, like, whatever
we hit, we hit like it is whatit is at at this point.
So yeah, I've got to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yeah, I remember getting to the point of like
even with being the especiallybeing the vehicle commander, not
running with my NVGs on whilewe're driving.
I felt like I could see better,which is just with my night
vision, even with the blackoutson.
Um the stupid NVGs.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
But well, we just didn't have any of the extra
gear that goes with NVGs.
We didn't have lasers, we didn'thave IR flashlights, we didn't
have really any of that shit.
So we just had moonlight, andthen we had most of us had
monoculars too.
We didn't even have binocular uhNVGs.
I don't know about you, but mostof my platoon only had
(35:09):
monoculars, which is even worse.
I remember having a pet two formy MVGs.
SPEAKER_04 (35:16):
Oh nice, but I like like like I said, that's only to
shoot at night, you know,they're still not gonna be able
to walk in them.
And who would want to walk andshoot at night with MVGs on?
You're you know what I mean?
You're gonna trip over and shootyourself, like you know, that's
not you know, or shoot somebodyelse, like you know, so you
don't want that shooting in yourconscience, like you know what I
(35:38):
mean.
So it's like there's there's nopoint of having a pet two on
your it's just to look cool, Iguess.
Fuck, I don't know.
I had it on mine, but I neverused it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Yeah, I mean it would have been nice to be able
to mark areas of targets andshit like that, but I don't
know.
I think we had one for our wholeplatoon, we never used it.
Yeah, so that was uh well afterWorth got wounded, and then you
guys, let's see, as far as thatraid goes, that was probably I
mean, that was definitely afterApril.
(36:06):
What do you remember of April?
SPEAKER_04 (36:08):
I don't not really much, man, because we we we
didn't go out as much as y'alldid.
Yeah, because we were night QRF.
Yeah, that's what I remember.
I remember a lot of us went out,but a lot of us went out in
separate times.
Like we didn't go out, you know,like how Rainmaker and y'all was
(36:28):
going out at the end of the day,y'all stay out all day.
We we we went out in differentyou know, times with different
people when kids we were like Isaid, night QRF at the time.
So we would go out a little bithere.
I think I went out on theseventh with like Cook and uh uh
McLeod.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Well, well, we were sp well just for clarity, if
you're talking specificallyabout like the the fourth,
fifth, sixth that that thebattle of Vermont, we were on
camp guard that during thatyeah, okay, there it is, during
that endeavor.
And so I know that first day,none of us went out, but I know
(37:08):
a lot of you guys got grabbedfor the other days.
SPEAKER_04 (37:13):
Yes, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like we didn't I feltuncomfortable because I went out
with not my not my not myplatoon, like not my not the
guys that I know what you knowwhat we trained to do and what
we did already being there for amonth or so or whatever, you
know what I mean?
So it was uh like I went out,bam, and then normally when when
(37:36):
we went out, it was more to itwas for like body count, like I
guess to go grab you knowwounded Marines or or whatever,
but it was just intense becauseit's hard to shoot out of a
window, you know what I mean?
So you're just getting targetedby rooftops and shit, like you
know what I mean?
And it was it wasn't fun.
(37:56):
I mean, I imagine I can onlyimagine the guys that are on the
field stuck until of course wegot there and you know helped
them out.
That was good.
Like I like doing that because II like to help out that way when
we went in there and grabbedpeople out and brought them
back, you know.
Of course they just ambled upand went right back out, but you
know, whatever.
Just to be the you know what Imean, sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
We did a lot of we did a lot of raids for the
battalion, a lot.
SPEAKER_04 (38:23):
Um sixty uh sixty-two of them.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:26):
Um I remember uh uh wider that told me that one
time.
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Yep, yeah.
We we ended up doing 62 of them.
I ended up doing I ended upgetting pulled over to do a some
for the battalion too.
So I did it with golf companyand Fox and stuff like that.
But yeah.
Um actually you uh when when wasthe uh the mission when we were
(38:51):
coming back from combat outpostwith uh Kennedy and Booker.
Oh and we got shot at.
Do you remember this, Rocha?
When Booker jumped out and gutshot the shit guy that shot the
RPG, and then he went he went hewent John Wick on on uh Ramadi
(39:12):
for a little while, while uhthen we had to go track down the
guy that got gut shot, and I andI uh ended up.
SPEAKER_04 (39:20):
It wasn't I remember it because he pulled me and you.
unknown (39:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (39:24):
And we ran down this damn alleyway with him because
he wouldn't stop, and there wasfucking blood everywhere, and he
didn't shoot him in the thing,he shot him in the throat.
And then uh he shot him in thethroat, and it looked like it
didn't look like one of thosefucking Jason Voorhees murder
scenes where someone getsstabbed or whatever, and there's
like like the we we found himthrough the blood trail.
(39:46):
Like you guys, I guess I feel itwas hitting hitting them.
He was just like walk walkingaround because I remember coming
up to like it was like twodouble doors, but they were kind
of like a like a garage typelooking deal.
Uh-huh.
And then when we go in there,he's on the floor huddled up on
his side, like holding it, andit's just fucking it's still
gushing out blood.
And Sergeant Major's like, thisis all this is the last thing
(40:08):
you're gonna see, is my uglyface or my ugly mug or some shit
like that.
And he's just we're juststanding over him, and they're
calling the doc.
And the doc was like, There'snothing fucking we could do,
like, am I gonna do about it?
I mean, we so we of course theytry to help, whatever, but then
I guess he died because Iremember putting him in the back
of my vehicle.
I think it was your vehicle atthe time, or who was it, but he
(40:29):
was in the back of it layingdown.
It wasn't mine, but and I waslike, man, I don't want to sit
back there with him because thatwas the first real casualty that
we actually saw the eyes fall.
And and they put on face uplooking at us, and I'm like, his
eyes didn't even so like what,you know, I don't want him
looking at me.
So I kept on, I kept on lookingdown, looking at him, but then I
(40:50):
was like trying not to becauseit's like a I don't want him to
jump up like a fucking zombie.
I was so scared.
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Yeah, that was pretty early in the deployment
too.
That was April 1st.
Uh I remember there was a bunchof April Fool's jokes about it
too.
But they also it's in thatunremitting book as well.
They they tell the story, butthey forget to put in the part
about uh 81s being there andthat's uh pulling security and
making sure the sergeant majordoesn't get killed.
SPEAKER_04 (41:17):
That was uh we had to run with them because this
dude just ran off by himself.
He didn't get fucked, he justtook off.
And we're like, and then he liketurns around and me and Muster
are like we just ran with them,like fuck, I don't know what to
do.
Like this dude, and everyone'spulling security while he just
ran off.
Yep.
So we're like, holy shit, runwith him.
You know, we just ran with them.
We just took him off.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
I very I very I very specifically remember after we
dismounted and saw him running,and you were getting out of the
you I was getting out of the Iwas already a vehicle, I was a
vehicle commander at that point,and I had gotten out and you had
jumped out of the the back ofthe truck that was in front of
me, and that's when I saw thesergeant major take off, and I
(41:58):
just grabbed you and I was like,We're following.
I was like, I remember I hit Ihit the bike real quick and I
was like, I don't know wherehe's going, but I'm gonna follow
Sergeant Major.
SPEAKER_04 (42:13):
Yeah, I remember that.
That was uh that wasn't thefirst time we did that, though.
Remember, uh, I want to say wefollowed uh Cook.
Was it Cook that shot someoneback in the head?
And he they took pop shots atus.
That and that Bronco was withus.
SPEAKER_00 (42:30):
No, no, no, no.
Okay, yeah.
Okay, so um somebody I can'tremember exactly, but I mean
okay, somebody so so if I I Ithink this is the same one.
So this is the this is the onewhere uh there were some guys
from like Kenya or somethinglike that that had that had come
up.
I can't remember where it was,Sudans, Kenya, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
(42:51):
Um it was like an all-expensivepaid trip to get up to like
Syria, get some training, andthen they got dropped off and
they were supposed to go to asafe house.
Yeah.
Well, there was like there waslike 12, 12 of them, 14 of them
or whatever.
And this was when there was acurfew, right?
And so we come around and we'reup on Nova, up by Nova, and
we're coming back down and we'regonna link up.
(43:12):
And uh there's there's these 14guys standing on a street
corner, obviously not Iraqi, andwe're like, this is past curfew,
what's going on?
And as we kind of rolled up onthem all of a sudden, they see
us and they all try to take off.
Some of them stayed, but a bunchof them took off.
And it was you, uh, Cook,Escavel, and and myself took off
(43:34):
running after a couple of theguys that ran down the alley.
And I remember I posted up, Iwas I hit the prone coming
around the corner because hecame around and and I was gonna
shoot him.
And then Escavel stacked behindme, and then Cook was in the
standing, and we all shot at theguy.
I have no idea who hit him, butwe ran up on that poor bastard,
(43:55):
and he got clipped in the backof the head, and uh, he was
still alive and he was in thatshit water and just aspirating
on that.
I and I just I I remember Iflipped him over real quick when
I realized that he was breathingthat shit.
And uh Gunny left.
I think he left with you becauseI remember I was there with
(44:16):
Escovel with the guy, and wewere like, I don't I there's
nothing I can do for you, man.
And um I think you went and Ithink you guys went back to go
get Doc.
But that's when we've but butthe reason why I remember that
story in particular is thatafter we after when we were
debriefing afterwards, werealized that uh when we took
(44:41):
off with Escavel, myself, andGunny gone, we had just
eliminated basically all of ourlike all of our leadership left.
The rest of the platoon.
And we were like, we can't gochase people down.
We have to send people.
We can't have all the leadershiprunning, which was a pro which,
(45:04):
you know, it's a it's a good andbad thing because you know, I
mean, it's what Kennedy andBooker were doing too.
It's what you know, we we had awe had a tendency and a and a
ethos inside of 2-4 of like thethe the leaders wanted to fight
just as much as you know, likewe didn't have any wilting
little daisies.
Um and we didn't we didn't donone and all that.
SPEAKER_04 (45:24):
Oh, I can name like one, but I I I I'm I'm I'm not
going to, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Well I won't say nothing untillater on.
You know, that's what we'resaying.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
We'll drop you you'll drop names when we're not
recording.
I appreciate I I I I Iappreciate the discretion,
friend.
SPEAKER_04 (45:45):
Um that was I I remember those two.
And then one is that kind ofremember me and you running
chasing someone too.
Jumped off like the secondfloor, uh second floor.
I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (46:02):
Like are you talking?
Are you talking about when youand I got separated?
SPEAKER_04 (46:06):
Yes.
What were you doing?
We're doing a raid.
I don't remember.
I just remember running downthat way with you.
You're like, hey, what the fuck?
We're by ourselves.
unknown (46:15):
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_04 (46:16):
We're like a few blocks down, we don't know what
the fuck was going on.
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
No, I that's one of my more vivid memories, buddy.
So well, that one was uh we weredoing a huge coordinated hit on
a mosque, and it was the firstbig mosque.
We talked, we talked about it inanother episode, but what what
the the short version is is wewere gonna do a major mosque.
We we brought out a bunch ofelements to do this because we
were gonna actually send some ofour interpreters into that
(46:42):
mosque.
And we had a guy with a videocamera and uh was uh one of the
interpreters, and uh somethinghappened, and I don't remember.
Well, the guy inside the mosqueshot, and there was a bunch of
pan pandemonium happened there,but there was a guy that we
started chasing for some reason,and I don't remember why we were
(47:03):
chasing him down, but it was itwas the same night, and he was
just outside of our ability tograb, like he was only a few
feet, and we chased this guy forfucking ever and we kept and we
jumped like one or two walls,like it wasn't just down alleys,
we had jumped.
I I remember boosting up over awall, and I jumped over the
wall, and then we jumped overanother one, and we thought he
(47:25):
went into this house, and so wekicked down the door, went into
the house, and I remember we gotup on top of the roof of the
place, and all of a sudden I waslike, Fuck, I don't know where
we're at, and we're really faraway, and we were outside of
Calm too, because those littlestupid squad mics only went like
(47:46):
four feet, and so I rememberlooking at you and being like,
We're in danger, like we'regonna like we need to be very
quiet.
SPEAKER_04 (47:57):
I don't I remember most of that, but I'm like, Wow,
why were we doing that?
Like, I don't remember what thefuck our adrenaline got up and
we were tasting down.
I don't even remember how we gotback to tell you the truth.
I picked I I know they fuckingjust gave us a ride back.
I don't know, like I think wedon't remember.
SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
Be like, hey, we're lost.
Uh could you give us a ridehome?
SPEAKER_04 (48:20):
No, like I really don't remember that.
It's like I wish I knew I I wishI could remember those details
like that, but I mean it's Imean it's probably that I don't,
so I guess we did you know.
SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
No, I I don't remember, I don't remember
picking, I remember leaving thehouse and starting to work our
way back.
I don't remember exactly gettingback, but I definitely remember
chasing the dude down and thenhaving that moment of epiphany
uh with you and I standing onthat roof being like, this is
not good.
This is this is not good at all.
SPEAKER_04 (48:54):
We're lost in a fucking different country in
Romani.
Fuck, what else is going on,Ronnie?
That's too funny.
That was good.
That was a good little story.
I actually forgot about thatuntil you told me about that
last year at the reunion.
Oh, and I was like, oh shit.
Oh, and it just I kind of cameback a little bit.
Oh fucking dude.
(49:16):
Oh man.
That was that was good.
I liked it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi
part episode.
Make sure you listen to the restof the story.
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