December 13, 2025 • 45 mins
Part two with Jamie Rocha and his raw, unscripted memories from 2004: the streets of Ramadi can turn from quiet to chaos in a breath. He details everyday texture of deployment: spades games in the hooch, bootleg DVDs, a gas alarm when no one has a mask ready... and set it against the heaviest moments: responding after sniper teams were killed and meeting the family of your fallen brother and roommate.
Jamie also shares the living legacy: the 2/4 Association, reunions that bridge Vietnam to Iraq and beyond, and the families who keep names alive.
• outer cordon roles and early bug hunts
• split-second decisions with the runaway wrecker
• rooftop ambush and returning fire
• downtime rituals, gas alarms, and hooch life
• losses, medevac support, and transporting the fallen
• OP Library fight and media embeds
• training memories, missing footage, and unit culture
• 2-4 Association reunions and intergenerational bonds
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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
This is part two of our conversation with Jamie
Rocha.
81 millimeter mortarssledgehammer platoon.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
So let's see here.
Some of the uh later stuff wewould have gotten again, you
wouldn't have done much with theBattle of Ramadi.
Um you would have gotten pulledout properly with Rainmaker,
like you said, you uh I'm notfeeling very comfortable with
that.
SPEAKER_04 (01:21):
With one of the map map platoons, I don't know which
one it was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
But then we were but then we were outer cordon for um
that first major bug hunt uhthen on the 10th, right, Nylon?
That was the 10th.
Operation bug hunt?
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah, the first official bug hunt was then uh
Operation County Fair was April8th.
That was the first small scalecoordinate search, and then
April 10th was the first bughunt in the Sophia district.
That was the only time thatthere was if you remember it,
that was the only time thathelicopters ever flew over
Ramadi and did any shooting.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
And uh we were we were doing an outer cordon on
that one, and that's the timethat we shot that poor guy up
because he ran our he ran ourchannel.
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
Are you talking about the guy who's driving a
wrecker or some bullshit?
Yeah, man, tell the story.
There you go, tell it, tell it.
Well, I remember being I didn'tshoot at the guy, so I'm proud
of myself because I was on the50 cal I mean I probably would
have demolished him, right?
You know, with the 50 cal, butwe see uh some guy turn the
(02:23):
corner and we had thatConstantine wire.
Yeah, and then we had peoplethere trying like to stop him
and he wouldn't stop.
And then and then you see himlike hold on to like the
steering wheel and put his headdown, or like, oh fuck, I mean
that's a suicide bomber.
That's why you could think,yeah, shit suicide bomber.
So everyone just starts throwingrounds at this fucking truck.
Bam, bam, bam, it sounds likefucking we should have just
(02:46):
fucking killed the dude, likeyou know, and he just rolls off
the ditch.
There's smoke coming out of thedude, like, what the fuck's
going on, right?
And I think he survived becauseI don't think I think he only
got hit once, and it was like inthe hand where we're some of the
worst shooting motherfuckersthat damn team.
(03:07):
And he comes out and I think itwas Rocco.
Was it Rocco or like a differentuh interpreter?
He's yelling at him, getting atmy if I'm if I'm if I remember
correctly, that they're sayingthat he didn't have no brakes or
some shit, driving a fuckingwrecker.
Yep, I'm like, driving a fuckingrecord with no brakes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
That's a hundred percent.
That's a hundred percent whathappened.
No, uh so so in my in my defenseas far as the uh the shooting
goes and why he didn't get hit,is I was shooting at the engine.
I was trying to get the truck tostop.
I wasn't shooting at the guy, tobe fair.
SPEAKER_04 (03:42):
We could we could uh we can go ahead and we'll say
that about you.
So I mean, it wasn't like Icould just throw down range with
a 50, and then we're doing that,you know, one of the bug hunts,
you know, that shit would havegone through all sorts of shit.
(04:03):
So, you know, I was never smartenough to know not to lay down.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
No, he did he did get hit a couple times.
He had some pretty he uh verysurvivable, but um no, he got
that was some nasty hits,actually.
I remember I was helping patchhim.
SPEAKER_04 (04:18):
I was on I was part of the contact.
And I want to say even Doc tookout his nine bell and started
throwing around with his ninebell shooting.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Just in case.
Just in case.
SPEAKER_04 (04:49):
Yeah, I want to say I we went to the hospital a few
times.
I don't remember why though, butwe went in.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
No, we we we had I remember there was a couple
missions that we went because wehad to go um like check or
something like that.
Maybe Nylon would know betterbecause he would have probably
done some of the similarmissions where we had to go talk
with people, like we weren'tdropping anybody off, but yeah,
I remember I remember two orthree times we were because I
(05:17):
think it was you, Rocha, you andI went up on the roof to to
provide Overwatch because wewere gonna be there for a while.
SPEAKER_04 (05:25):
Um, yes, I remember that.
And I don't remember why or whatwe were doing.
Yeah, I don't I don't remember.
I mean, and then and and and itgoes with the I was a last
corporate at the time, so it'sjust more of a you know, just do
what I say, kind of go to therooftop and you know make sure
no one started shooting at us,you know, whatever.
(05:46):
So it's just kind of like allright, yes sir, I'll just do
what you want me to do, folks.
Be up there with mustard whilethey're together.
Yeah, most of the time.
It seems like me and you arealways paired, mustard.
Like even at the governmentcenter, I have a picture of you,
you know, pointing it, you know,towards the street.
I don't know what we're doing,but I have a picture of you
doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, I uh I like I like uh especially early on
before we got the combatreplacements and I started
pulling Martinez and Adams withme a lot.
Um I like bringing you alongbecause I could you're you're
one of the few guys that I couldtell what needed to be done and
I could trust that you would dowhat needed to be done while I
went and because I got pulledaway a lot.
(06:28):
And so I could give you I couldgive you tasks, kind of knowing
that it was gonna get done.
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
It's gonna get done.
Yeah, I remember when they cameto us, Adams, like because he
took over my team leader'sposition since he was a
corporal, and that's a corporalbillet.
So he took it over, but he wasstill like, hey, this is your
team, so you just tell me whatyou want them to do, and I'll
tell them to do it, or whatever.
I'm like, that's cool, whatever.
You know, because he already didhis first combat deployment, and
(06:55):
he didn't, I don't, I mean, theywere volunteers to come back,
but he had told me that hisfirst stunt wasn't, you know, as
intense as ours was.
So he was just like, hey, you'vebeen, you know, fighting with
these guys already for months orwhatever, just go ahead and
we'll just I'll I'll I'll go tothe you know the debriefings or
whatever, and I'll just let youknow what's going on and help me
out with the team or whatever.
(07:15):
That's fine.
That's close, no big deal.
That's fine.
I wasn't one of these guys thatgot pissed off because oh, he
took my position.
I don't give a fuck.
I didn't really give a shitabout positions, I just want to
come home alive.
I just like dying.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
You know, good good priorities.
SPEAKER_04 (07:31):
I do remember me and Adams being on a rooftop and
getting fucking ambushed.
That was fucking ugly.
I don't even know when it was,but it was one of the operation
buggers.
It might have been the last one.
And because we're on top of arooftop, and it was fucking
we're there all day.
And we're sitting there, like,you know how you first you start
off, you're like, oh, you know,watching every little piece of
(07:52):
fucking crass that moves, andand then after a while, I was
like, bam, nothing, nothing.
That's a while.
You're just like walking around,scratching your ass, like not
reading, like fucking whatever,right?
And then there was a it was likea traffic jam at first, right in
front of where's where we're at.
And I remember uh looking downand I was like, What's this
fucking trick car doing?
(08:13):
And I was like, I don't know.
So I kind of turned around and Isaw a car in the eye.
Two guys get out of the car andjust start fucking laying down
the fire on us.
And we dropped so fast, I waslike, what the fuck?
We dropped so fast, and I'd hearon the radio, like, y'all shoot
back, y'all shoot back, andwe're like, fuck no, because it
felt like because it felt likeas the lower they were to the to
(08:36):
the to the rooftop, like theground, and felt like the
bullets were like coming throughthe fucking wall, and we
couldn't get up.
And I was like, man, I want toget fucking shot on top of the
head.
Like, how the fuck you get shoton top of the head, right?
Like, fuck.
And then finally it it kind ofdies out.
And and we get up and we returnfire and we hit the car like a
few times.
(08:56):
I'm sure we did.
I mean, I wasn't a bad shot,fuck, you know.
And uh, we hit the car a littlebit, it kind of swerves, and I
want to say someone else gotthat car a couple blocks, blocks
down and killed him orsomething.
You know, I can't I can'tremember the actual details or
whatever, but I I remember I wasso scared because I was like, I
think we're I think we're closeto going home.
(09:16):
And I was like, You're gonnapick my head up right now, like
because these these users arejust laying down rounds on us.
So I was like, fuck.
And and it was me and Adams.
And it's funny because uhMartinez told that story to uh
that first book that was writtenon us, and he had said in that
book, I thought Roach and Adamjust got hit.
I thought when we're going up tothe rooftop that we're gonna
(09:39):
just pick up their bodies offthe floor because they went down
so fast.
And he's like, But then I sawthem get up, return fire, and
he's like, Okay, so they'regood.
I was worried about that, youknow, and I was like, fuck.
I do remember like that, I doremember that because I that was
scary as shit.
Because I I don't remember everbeing really targeted like that,
like of course, pop shots here,blah blah blah, but it's just
(10:01):
being pinned down like that,like you don't get pinned down a
lot over there because you havehelp people are there, you know,
guys here, guys over there, youknow, guys overwatch, whatever.
But they be up be and I felt sohelpless just laying on the
floor getting shot at, and Ican't shoot back because I can't
even move to pick my head upbecause I'm scared I'm gonna get
shot.
Because the routes were comingso close, and you could see like
(10:24):
debris and the brick just flyingeverywhere, and I'm like, I'm
I'm there ain't no way I'mgetting up.
I'm gonna I tell fucking Adam Iwas like, you get up if you
want.
I ain't getting up.
So so we just laid there forlike it felt like it was a long
fucking time, but I'm prettysure they probably just switched
two magazines on us, you knowwhat I mean?
But I mean, when that's whenthey case got shit like that,
(10:47):
that that you know, it's prettyloud first off, and then and
then they were really close tous because we're we weren't like
we're fucking 100 yards away.
We're they must have been about20, 25 feet from us.
Because they're just in thebottom on the road.
They just jumped out, had theballs to jump out, they're
shooting at us.
(11:07):
But I mean, we got laxed, youknow.
Of course, I got like I said, wewe probably been there like six
hours already, seven hours,nothing, nothing over the radio.
So we just figured actuallygonna happen.
And then not complacent.
Almost took my face off, youknow what I mean?
So uh Yeah.
So I do remember that storyabout Adams all the time.
(11:29):
He was a good guy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
We did do a lot of uh standing around Overwatch
work uh as uh other things weregoing on.
You telling that story remindedme of it's uh there's a picture
in Oliver North's book.
It's when we had um I can'tremember what happened, but we
had a bunch of guys lined up andwe were we were holding a
(11:54):
corner, and uh it was anothertime that we had been there for
forever and then a car just camescreaming up really quick.
I thought we were done for, butit was uh just a guy they drive
like maniacs.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
So uh I thought that we were done for, but nope.
It was just somebody drivingreally fast.
SPEAKER_04 (12:15):
And uh fortunately we didn't shoot, but yeah, no,
we uh we probably should haveshot a lot more people than for
doing stuff like that, but Imean glad we didn't and shit,
you know what I mean?
But you know, when you're inthat type of situation
environment, a lot of times youshoot first and ask questions
(12:36):
later.
You know what I mean?
It's just hard to determine.
I mean, it's it's like thatlittle saying goes like, I don't
want to die for my country, I'lllet him die for his.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, like so I don't I Idon't wanna I didn't want to
come home with a box, so it wasjust you can kind of have to
determine on your own what thelevel of uh you know force that
(13:02):
you have to use.
You know, because your yoursquad leader, team leader gun
ain't always gonna be around,you know what I mean to tell
you.
So, you know, but it was a goodexperience that I don't know if
I missed and I would want to goback or wouldn't ever want to go
(13:23):
back.
I don't know.
I have mixed feelings for thatall the time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Well, now that you're thinking about it, what
do you think?
SPEAKER_04 (13:32):
If would I if I had to go back, I definitely would
have 100%.
I mean, I might have to get dropa few pounds, you know what I
mean?
But I mean Yeah, sure.
Yeah, we're not young menanymore.
Yeah, but uh if if I needed to,of course, I would go back in a
heartbeat.
I would have heard it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah, I mean and I guess along that same vein, any
regrets or are you good witheverything?
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
No, no, I'm I'm good.
I mean, I'm we didn't do nothingtoo crazy to where I'm like,
man, we killed 45 people justbecause no, we didn't do nothing
like that.
So, you know, right.
I mean, we just did things thatwe needed to do and what had to
be done.
Simple as that.
It was nothing to where toocrazy.
I mean, it was crazy, don't getme wrong.
(14:15):
We did, you know, some shit thatyou know you only see in fucking
war movies and stuff like that.
But I mean, we did them becausewe needed to protect each other,
and you know, I was with Blake,you know.
I I'd rather check a you know,bullet for Blake than you know,
him for me.
So, you know, so you know, I'malright with the things we did
(14:36):
over there.
Good.
I'm at peace.
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
So thinking about now, you probably didn't have a
ton of downtime, but when youdid have downtime, what'd you do
in the hooch, man?
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Oh fuck, you know what we did, but we just played
cards all damn day.
We played like uh uh what wasit?
Um spades 31 a lot.
We played uh uh um spades.
Of course we're fuckingmortarmen, we had to play
spades, you know.
So we played spades a lot, and Iremember it was me, uh me,
McCloud, Jonathan.
(15:12):
Jonathan remember John, right?
John and and and our doc.
But I can't remember our doc'sname for the life of me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Doc Hinkle.
SPEAKER_04 (15:20):
There, that's yes, him.
We used to play Brian Hinkle.
Yes, Brian.
We played spades a lot, and wejust uh hung out in the route,
man.
We just I mean, I had a littleDVD player, so we just watched
you know movies on a damn thing.
Everyone watched the family guyfor some fucking reason.
Had like DVs are like uh burntcopies of the family guy, and we
(15:42):
just sit there and watch andchill out, you know.
I do remember one time we'retrying to chill out, do that,
and we got uh hit by uh what wasit?
Like a little rocket, but it hadgas in it.
Do you remember that blade?
It had like gas and all thissmoke fluor, and people started
running around saying gas, gas,gas.
(16:03):
My dumb ass didn't have myfucking gas mask because it's in
the bottom of my fucking seabag.
You know, do I need a gas maskfor?
I'm not gonna put on mop gear.
And I remember like just startedcoughing and coughing, freaking
myself out.
I ran out the back of the hoopsand I took off running by myself
down the fucking pretty muchnext to the river.
And then as I was walking back,I see people yelling at me and
(16:24):
screaming and laughing, they hadtheir gas mask on and they're
taking it off.
And I'm like, the fuck y'alllaughing about me for?
Like, and I'm in my fuckinglittle fucking shorts with no
shirt on, just ran outside.
You know, I was like, I mean, Inever to this day even though
what kind of gas it was.
It it tasted like CS gas, butyeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.
(16:48):
Why would it hit us with CS gasand we fucking trained with
that?
They didn't, but they didn'tknow what they were doing.
Yeah, they didn't know.
Yeah, yeah, and I rememberbecause like it peppered right
in front of our door.
And I was like, well, I'mfucking glad it peppered there
and not on our paper thinceiling that we had up there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
No, I think that's the one that they uh it did hit
a truck.
Uh Martinez was reminding me ofthat one.
Um, but uh yeah, they they wouldjust they would knock a fin.
They didn't even know what theywere doing.
They would knock a fin off ofone of the side of the mortars
and stuff like that, just so itwould be more erratic because
they didn't know they were justtrying to lob it kind of towards
us.
(17:27):
They couldn't target.
SPEAKER_04 (17:28):
And so as a mortarman, I'm very offended by
that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:38):
But that's what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
So what else do you remember?
Do you remember any of the so wewe did some other bigger
operations?
Um, going back to the end of theend of uh April, uh, we would
have you were just doing patrolsin the first part of May is when
we lost Savage, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:58):
I I remember that uh we we weren't out with them.
No.
But when when they came back,they told us that he was halo
flighted, and then they broughtus back.
Because I do remember uh I thinkit was Lieutenant Dobb at the
time.
He tried to tell us and hecouldn't, he broke down.
And then I I want to say Cookstarted breaking down too, and
(18:18):
he went inside.
So Garcia had to tell us.
And I remember kind of thespeech was like, hey guys, this
sucks.
I'm sorry.
But we we could cry for ourfather later.
Right now, we have to, you know,get back and you know, take care
of business per se, I guess.
And you know, we'll you know,we'll come back to this whenever
(18:39):
we can get home or whatever.
So I mean, he wasn't being anass or anything, he's just
trying to motivate, you know,you to you know, this is what's
gonna happen.
And um just keep us going fromyou know the loss of Savage,
because Savage was he was a veryunique guy.
(18:59):
I was I was his roommate inOkinawa.
Oh yeah, he was fun.
He was fun to be with, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
I love Jeremiah.
Yeah, he was uh he was uh he wasdefinitely a guy that uh you
weren't you weren't gonna have adull time if he was there,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
That that was uh that was a goodthing about him, though.
He never took anything seriouswhenever you would tell us
something, and he was just allaround, just fantastic, you
know.
I finally met Mama Savage lastyear, and she's very, very nice.
She was very humble, talked toeverybody, her kids, her son.
(19:41):
I just hate that she wentthrough the same thing with her
other son.
Like he wanted to join becauseof Savage, and well, of course,
his brother, he he's a Savagetogether, and uh he got injured
in Afghanistan.
He got really fucking screwedup.
I mean, and he was close todeath, and I could just only
imagine losing both sons likethat.
But he pulled through and youknow, he survived.
(20:03):
And so, you know, she told ushis story.
He went with us last year and hewas there and gotta met them,
you know, Savage's sister,they're a very, very nice
family, trying to get thembecause we're having another
two-floor association reunion.
We have them every year, yeah.
And uh we're having this one inSeptember, late September in
(20:24):
Corpus Christi.
Uh, so this past year was pastit was uh October 3rd, this past
year, like October last month ora few months ago, whatever.
We went uh to Willisford, Texas,and that's where uh the Unraman,
the guy who wrote it, Greg uhGreg's the royal.
Yeah, yeah, he was there, and Italked to him and we took a
(20:46):
picture with him, and then thenext night we went to a World
War, I mean, uh World War IImuseum or Vietnam Museum, I
can't remember.
And you know, they took us tothe tour and then We went to a
celebrity softball tournamentwhere we got to go down there
and meet the players and meetthe celebrities and you know get
on the field.
We got honored on the field.
(21:07):
I encourage anyone who listensto this cat this podcast.
Hey, if you're in 2-4, it's a2-4 association.
So it's anyone who's ever beenin 2-4.
So you meet, you know, Vietnamvets, like you meet guys from
the 80s, like I mean Odoman, youknow, and and of course you meet
like junior Marines too.
There was like 15 junior Marinesthat when we got out, they were
just getting into 2-4.
(21:29):
And so that's how they knewWorth and you know, uh Forky.
You remember Forky?
They knew who Forky was, youknow, it just so it was like
pretty cool.
Like, you know, I kind of wantto just spread the word about
this 2-4 association.
Just you know, maybe y'all mightwant to join.
A lot of people are actually init that we know they just don't
(21:50):
go to the to the reunions.
But Hodges is in it, Late uhLatham's in it.
He comes down to Texas every sooften.
We we met up with Sergeant MajorBooker at one of them.
You know, this past year theguest speaker was uh General
Livingston, the medal honorwinner.
Yeah, and it was pretty coolbecause he actually got to swear
(22:11):
in Marine recruits on thesoftball field, and they got to
read, yeah, yeah, on the field.
He got to read on him and uhHernandez were there.
So that was pretty cool.
So if anybody wants to link,just let me know.
(22:33):
If you ever want to meet up withguys who were with you two in
your platoon, or you know,they'll be there if y'all just
coordinate together, have a goodtime.
It's always a good time toreminisce and hang out, I guess.
Talk.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah, just out of curiosity, how many how many
guys from 2004 do you think werethere?
SPEAKER_04 (22:54):
Oh well, this past time there was only uh well this
past year, it was only uh me andFern.
Fern or uh the guy ScottHastings, the he wrote that
book, uh Echoes of her body.
Yeah, he's the one who hostedit.
Yeah, but he was in 06, Ibelieve.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
He was in 06, yeah.
He was the echo companycommander in 06.
SPEAKER_04 (23:15):
Yeah, and but uh like previous times that there's
been like I've been with onewith Eccles and Latham and
Booker.
Oh, cool, you know, so yeah, soit's I mean, and Accles was like
just randomly there.
So I'm like, what the fuck areyou doing here?
You know, and this was in SanAntonio, yeah, and he's like
(23:36):
from fucking somewhere up north,like way, different country,
different state, or whatever.
And he just showed up to one ofthem, you know what I mean?
So I mean, you'll be surprisedwho you see there and who you
don't.
And then if you don't see theone that you know, it's it's
actually really good becausethen you get to hear these
Vietnam War stories, and thenyou're like, man, so I I don't
(23:57):
feel so bad because fuck y'all,y'all did some shit over there,
like you know, you're in ajungle and we're running around
the street.
But I mean, you know, so you getthe you you get to give and take
y'all's you know, experiences,and it's a bond that you know
happens.
Now, gentlemen, you know, andit's pretty cool.
Like, I want to say, what's hisname?
(24:19):
Oh Lord, he fought with golfcompany, he's a president now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, Joe Hayes.
SPEAKER_04 (24:25):
Yeah, Hayes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a president, he got swornin this past October.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah, I saw that.
I saw that video.
Yeah, that was it's good.
SPEAKER_04 (24:33):
Yeah, so you know what I mean.
So it's I mean, you you seerandom folks like that, because
I seen them before they're yearsback at one reunion, and then uh
he got sworn in as a president.
So I wouldn't, you know, likefor some of y'all guys that show
up and come, you know, you know,kind of reminisce and talk.
I don't go.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
No, I appreciate that.
No, it's it was it, I mean thatpart of what created all of this
is uh you know, when we went tothe reunion last year, and
that's kind of what we're doinghere too, is that kind of make
connections, reminisce, remembersome stuff, talk shit to one
another.
SPEAKER_04 (25:08):
Yeah, I mean, I didn't get to do that much with
you this past year because youtook off, I guess.
No, no hug or kiss or nothing.
So I was like, fuck, you justtook off on a way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
You just brought up so many feelings, man.
I didn't know what to do withall this.
SPEAKER_04 (25:25):
I said, That's muster.
She's like, he keeps on staringat you, and I was like, Yeah,
that was the love of my lifeback then.
I don't tell you.
This is like us four, and you'rejust staring right at me,
smiling in the word.
I'm looking at the camera.
I think I sent it to you.
You know, I was like, look, Iwas going back in love again.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
You're my boy, man.
You had my six, and Iappreciated it.
SPEAKER_04 (25:51):
Oh yeah, I still do, buddy.
Don't worry.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
But uh so bringing it back to uh Ramadi in 2004.
Um you remember any otherspecific missions?
I I know that you're you'rethinking a lot of the I know you
were thinking a lot about theraids that we did and a lot of
the door kicks.
We did a lot of that.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
But uh trying to I remember we were escorting a box
troke.
And I do remember we're uh Ithink we had that not that new
guy, but he was there with us,but he was a younger Marine.
I think we got him for like Ithink it was a machine gunner
because uh we started gettingmachine gunners with us for you
(26:39):
know right and uh we were justgoing to box truck, and I
remember getting ambly like shotat those like contact left for
what a round something whatever.
And I remember getting out ofthe truck and everyone's
shooting at this one house.
And I I try to cross the street,so I'm running across the
street, but I hide behind afucking chain line fence, like I
remember what the fuck I wasthinking, right?
(27:01):
And then like everyone's yellingat me, so like I push forward
and then Escabel grabs me frombehind, he's pushing forward
with me, and then we get to thehouse and we try to kick the
fucking door in, and it's it'schained up from the inside, you
know, like what the fuck?
You know, and and then wefinally get in, and then we uh
we kick down this this door, andthere's the guy just sitting
(27:23):
there, like fucking laughing atus.
So we're like, oh, is thatright?
So we kind of kind of rough themup a little bit, not not in
serious, and we handcuff them,right?
We like, you know, for zips onhim, I guess.
And if we go up to the rooftop,and there's all these fucking
shell cases everywhere.
And there's like a little bit ofblood on one corner or whatever,
(27:43):
and we're like, dude, how muchpeople were here?
So, but I don't think we everfound out what happened.
We'll just I guess it was just aregular, hey, shooting scooter
or some bullshit, and but wecaught one of them inside the
house fucking sitting therelaughing at us.
And that I want to say that hehad a tattoo of like the Iraqi
regime on his arm or somethinglike that.
So he was an Iraqi guy orsomething, like you know, like
(28:04):
an Iraqi army did that, youknow, so surrendered, buddy.
Well, Thailand, I guess,surrendered, but didn't really.
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
No, I but I actually very much remember when he took
cover behind that chain linkfence.
SPEAKER_04 (28:18):
See, that's what I forgot about that.
You know what?
Those are funny memories ofmine.
I I I try to push them way inthe back, you know what I mean?
Like trying to be like I washardcore over there.
I did some dumbass shit, youknow.
Oh, we all did.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
I was gonna say everybody did something stupid.
Yeah, no, I I have I have thetime that I fell off the top of
that that wall trying to getinto it, trying to to do the
raid, and Martinez gave me toomuch of a boost and it threw and
I flipped over.
And I I fell like 12 feet andlanded on my back, knocked the
wind out of me.
No, we all did.
SPEAKER_04 (28:52):
But that was like the man, I was like, dude, I
remember Eskimo just grabbing meand dragging me.
I'm like, I feel like a littlekid and my feet like dangling on
the floor.
I do remember that.
I don't remember what we weredoing though.
I well, I remember that we'reescorting a box truck because I
remember when we got shot, theytook off and we stayed behind.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
No, we were doing a child, we were doing a child run
out to uh combat outpost.
Yep, we were doing a child runto combat outpost, and the uh
the SOP at the time was we'dstay behind while they pushed on
and yeah, but I do remember, Ijust don't remember who were
fucking protecting.
SPEAKER_04 (29:31):
I just know that we got we started getting shot at
and we just dismounted and theykept pushing forward.
And then my dumbass decided tohide behind a little bit of
brush, like hey, that was likefucking a forest field to me, I
guess.
You know, like at the time hecan't see me, so he can't shoot
me type of deal.
But no.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
I remember I remember standing behind a wall
with you one time too, where itwas just nothing but trash
inside that place.
And uh you couldn't see.
I'm a I'm a little bit tallerthan you and I could see over
the wall, but you couldn't.
And so I remember I kicked abunch of trash up underneath me
and I was like, stand on this.
You're so you're so pissed at mebecause I made you stand on a
(30:12):
pile of trash.
And I was like, I don't give afuck.
I need you to see.
SPEAKER_04 (30:27):
Yeah, but that's pretty much.
I mean, don't have a lot morememories.
Wish I did.
There's there's a few of themthat when we're smoking in a
smoke pit, of course, we get youknow mortared, and everyone's
just jumping on the ground untilwe the mortar stop and then just
get up and keep on smoking acigarette, you know, like you
know what I mean.
(30:48):
I remember, yeah, I want to sayLelong got got like a uh hold of
like one of those hookah tobaccothings.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Right, I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_04 (31:00):
Yeah, and like his mom would send them because
Lalong likes to roll his owncigarettes as the fucking most
ugliest thing.
I smoke cigarettes, right?
And my mom used to send me acarton of cigarettes, but those
those Iraqi cigarettes, man,it's like smoking four reds in
one, so I was like, no, butLalon would just roll his own
(31:21):
cigarettes, so it looked like hehad a bunch of just weed joints
just in a fucking bag, you know,he just rolled his own
cigarettes, you know.
But then he got a hold of thosehookah things and he was out
batches sucking on that thingfucking all the time.
I was like, Who the fuck did youget this from?
You know, I don't remember himever telling me how he got it or
why he even got it, but I'massuming it might have been
(31:42):
that.
Remember that guy used to comein and sell all this crazy
stuff, you know?
Yeah, the DVD guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, oh yeah, the DVD guy.
Yep.
All the poor party guys likedhim.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
A lot of bootlegged uh movies from that guy and a
lot of other contraband forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
He he had all kinds of crap.
He had candy bars, he had Fanta,he had all kinds of shit.
SPEAKER_04 (32:14):
Yeah, I never I never trusted in that shit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Well, we ended up killing him in a raid, so it
didn't matter.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:21):
Well, I mean, that that he was probably checking
out our our cat.
He definitely was.
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Yeah, that was that was what the uh assertion was.
Gunny Maraki swore up and down,he saw him pacing off uh the
camp and measuring it out foryou know what maybe indirect
fire.
I guess if you could findsomebody who could who could
read a plot, but so yeah, thatwas I'm I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_04 (32:47):
That's uh awesome, I guess.
Yeah.
Suck for him, good for us, Iguess.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
I don't trying to trying to remember some of the
other bigger operations that wewould have been a part of.
Nile, do you have a couple ofthose?
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
I mean, the things that I know that you guys were a
part of, there was the uhengineers that were killed by
the IED on the dam.
That was late May May 29th.
SPEAKER_04 (33:15):
On the levee, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (33:17):
I remember that shit because when it happened, we we
just saw bodies flying in theair.
Like, what the because it was hekind of like circled around, and
then uh it was me and what wasthis the uh our first SRNA, Mac?
Yeah, and he was walking withus, and he goes, He goes, Go
(33:38):
look at that bike right there.
And I said, Did you see whathappened over there?
Like, fucking no, like that'sthe first time I was like, He
goes, You're scared?
And he's like, and this wasafter we got hit by that bike
bomb, too.
So I'm like, and then theystarted searching the the water,
and there's nobody out there, noone, no fishermen.
So that bike is by itself.
So I'm like, Oh, thismotherfucker wants me to get
(33:59):
killed.
Like, oh fuck, so I'm going realslow.
He's like, you know what?
I'll just do it, stand behindme.
And I'm fairly certain.
I mean, I he probably wouldprotect me how big he was.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
Yeah, and then uh last year kicks the bike over,
and he's like, Oh, there's nobomb in it, and he walks away.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
I remember that.
Yeah, he carried a shotgun mostof the time.
Yeah, see, I remember that.
SPEAKER_04 (34:22):
So I was like, What the fuck?
I'm I was like, Yeah, I'm notgonna go check that bike.
I was like, uh, can we get Imean there is no one around in
the water in the bank by itself.
So I'm like, why?
And he's like, I'll just do itmyself, and he just walked past
me.
You know how his big ass waslike down here's 6'6 and shit,
like you know, and I was like,okay, dude, he's a big that is
(34:45):
the biggest man I've ever seenin person.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
I mean, I know there's bigger.
I mean, I've seen basketballplayers and shit, but like
that's the biggest likenon-professional sports man,
yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
Yeah, and I was like, oh fuck, you know, I was
like, Well, if it blows up, Imight have some protection
behind him.
I don't know.
But I I do remember that thatlevy got killed two engineers,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
They're we're uh I think we're doing ID sweeps,
right?
Or something.
Yeah, and they were they werestanding on top of it when it
went off.
To my understanding, theysurvived.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
I was just gonna say, I I the last I knew that
they had certain trap.
SPEAKER_04 (35:22):
I mean, those were horrendous injuries, but yes, I
think um I want to say I heardthat both of them lost at least
one leg and an arm, or you know,someone lost two arms and a leg
or something like that.
But yeah, but I mean they justsurvived.
So I never got their names, orbecause of course you weren't
with our platoon, or you're notgonna be able to do it.
Yeah, they're engineers.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
No, yeah, I mean their names are written down, we
can find them, but they're yeah.
Um but then the other big one II don't know if this is the next
one you're gonna talk about,Nyland is either.
Uh when Condi got killed, whichwe weren't out for, we did
respond to it.
But then also when uh we werethe ones that transported the
(36:03):
bodies after uh the snipers gotkilled.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
Yeah, basically, right you were you were talking
about the gas shell attack atHurricane Point, but not long
after that, like a week afterthat was when the snipers got
killed.
SPEAKER_04 (36:15):
Yeah, it was uh if I'm correct, it was Conteas,
Ote, Parker.
I can't remember the fourth one.
I see his face.
I can't remember his name.
But I remember Conteras becauseuh he's from Houston.
And I remember being on a uhseven time, and it was like days
(36:37):
before that.
I guess they were leaving and Idon't know why, but I was a
fucking fat guy in the platoon,and I wasn't even being but
whatever.
Fuck all the alright, and uh hewas on there and he was yelling
at me, hey, watch out, you fatass, I'll see you later, blah
blah talking shit, whatever.
And then that's the lastinteraction that I had with him,
(36:58):
and then you know he got killed.
I I see that guy's face.
I don't remember, but it was Iremember Otay, Parker, and
Conderas, right?
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, andthen I came up the other guys.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Yep, and then we we uh we were we were the ones that
transported them up to Al Assad.
SPEAKER_04 (37:16):
Yeah, they're in my truck, they're laying down.
They were in my truck, and I wasstanding up because I didn't
know what to do.
And it it was the ugliestfeeling in the world because
when when we're transferringthem, like you could tell that
their bodies were hitting up,like you know, the home fee, you
know, bed or whatever, you know.
It felt it felt ugly because I'mgonna do this.
(37:38):
I wanted to hold their headsjust because fuck, I mean, you
know, so I sat down with one ofthem because I think Adams was
with me back there too, Adamsand Martinez.
Yeah, and we just kind of likecradled some of them so that
way, you know.
I mean, of course they weren't,you know, they're with us
anymore, but just it was justwanted to do.
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
Yeah, I mean, well, not only that, I mean, their
families are gonna see themeventually.
There's no reason for things tobe worse, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
You know, and we were going pretty quick.
I I want to say, Muster, we gotshot at too, right?
On the way up there.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
We did.
SPEAKER_04 (38:15):
And we couldn't stop because uh well, I don't think
we wanted to stop.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
That's right.
SPEAKER_04 (38:22):
So we just flew through it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
Yep.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
You know, no, we got engaged just north of the city,
but we didn't stop.
SPEAKER_04 (38:29):
So yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Because we wanted to take them,you know.
So yeah, I do remember that.
I do.
No, that mission.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
That was that was a rough mission.
That wasn't fun.
SPEAKER_04 (38:39):
No, I remember that.
That was what we uh yeah, yeah.
That was not too good.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
Yeah, and so and then shortly thereafter, uh June
30th was when uh Matt 3 was outall night and then Condi was
killed on the morning of July1st.
Uh shortly thereafter, thepolice station got blown up.
Let's see, OP Library got blownup on July 21st.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
We went to that one.
SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think almost everybodydid, and that was the one that
was kind of sort of famous uh onuh the Oliver North War Story
show.
There was you know Humveesbounding and shooting it and all
that stuff, taking taking firenext to Saddam's mosque.
So there's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03 (39:22):
Yeah, I think was uh was that like the government was
it the government center?
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
So it was right next to the government center.
SPEAKER_04 (39:29):
Yeah, so I I I remember that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
Yep.
And then August, August wasOperation Traveler, that was
when we were going afterZerkawi, and we ended up getting
his driver, and that was it.
Because his mom, his mom orgrandma or something like that,
aunt, uncle, something lived inRamadi.
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
Yeah, actually, he was bringing up uh Oliver North.
Uh, do you he rode he rode withus a lot?
Um, yeah.
And so and so did a lot of otherreporters for whatever reason.
I know we took him around.
Uh, do you have any specificmemories of uh trying to deal
with the reporters and or OliverNorth?
SPEAKER_04 (40:08):
I I remember getting shot at, and Oliver North is
like just jumping out of thetruck like he had his own
fucking weapon, and he's like,They're over there, shoot that
way.
And we're like, get the fuckback, get back.
You know, you're behind us, oldman.
What's wrong with you?
He was just like that tough oldman, he didn't give a shit.
His reporter would always stayin a truck, like he wouldn't get
(40:29):
out.
Now man, I'm sorry, he'sreported.
His uh, his his cameraman.
Yeah, he'd always stay in atruck, he wouldn't get out once
once he heard any kind ofscuffle or round or just
anything.
He uh that's that was his cue tostay his ass in the truck and he
wouldn't get off.
Oliver North would get off.
He didn't give a shit.
He used to get off, and I mean,of course, that's good old
Ollie, right?
(40:50):
So I mean, yeah, and what can'tyou tell him either?
Like, you know, it's fuckinghe's been here and done that.
You don't want to.
Like, get in the truck, he'dprobably tell you, go fuck
yourself, you know, do ithimself.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
So I remember early on when he was with us, he it
was after a scuffle, and he saidsomething about it reminding him
about Vietnam.
He had a little bit of a grin onhis face when he said it.
He's like, good chick, gents, orsomething.
I can't remember what he said.
But I was like, all right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:21):
You're living your dream and you're he was in your
truck a lot with with because Iwas in there a few times with
him with you.
SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:30):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:32):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, because I think Gunnyhad an up-armored vehicle at the
time.
SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
Yeah, we we got it.
I ended up having an up-armorvehicle a little bit more often.
But that was mostly because hewas well, it was because they
would give us I think it was.
I mean, Gunny even said to me,he's like, he wanted to give me
the reporters and Oliver becausehe knew that I out of anybody I
was probably the least likely tosay something stupid.
And so he always gave me thespecial package to deal with.
SPEAKER_04 (42:01):
Yeah, and so pretty much where you went, I was with
you, so fell.
Yeah.
So yeah, I do remember him beingthere.
I I've never I've seen uhbecause I want to say when we
went, uh when we got back, hehad made uh what was it like a
battle of Vermonty something orwhatever?
(42:22):
Like it was a whole not just onespecific battle was like you
know, a generalized of what wedid and the training part of
what we did to go over there,but I think that got cut from
the DVD because that's not onthere.
And I was hoping it would bebecause fuck I'm I was on the
fucking training party, at leastshit, right?
But but uh you know, uh that uhthat got cut for some reason.
(42:45):
And I've I've been always tryingto look for it because they show
us that remember when we didthat uh that CQB training and we
went to some fucking town and wehad like those vests.
Someone in the backyard.
Well, I don't know where we'reat, stage two, but I mean, and
we had like that little, youknow, where if you get shot, it
it'll tell you on a chest, leg,arm, or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (43:07):
That train that sounds like you were wearing
miles gear, and that would beMarch Air Force Base.
That was March Air Force Base inthe old abandoned officers'
housing.
SPEAKER_04 (43:16):
Yeah.
There you go.
There, there you go.
And so I mean, and then he hadfootage of us doing that, yeah,
and then going off and thendoing other things, you know,
just just I like to see thetraining aspect before and then
see what we went through, andthen when we came back 80 years
older and shit, you know, yeah,for sure.
(43:38):
You know, so that was that thatthat would have been cool to
see.
But I mean, I think because Iwant to say he had showed it to
us when we had our like prettymuch first Marine Corps ball,
like when we got back.
We didn't really have one, yeah.
You know, and then he had it onthe big screen, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:55):
But of course, no one really cares.
I I forgot about that, but Ithink you're I I you're I'm
remembering that now.
There was a lot more, there wasa lot more footage.
Yeah, I wonder what happened tothat.
SPEAKER_04 (44:06):
That's a really good point.
Yeah, you know, that's what I'msaying.
So I wish you would have kept itin in some kind of like outtake
real or just something, justsomething so that way we could
look back and see all the guysbecause they showed actual the
faces, like it's hard to seewhen he's doing like real life,
you know, real-time, you know,warfare and who's doing what
(44:29):
because you're moving so fast,you don't see what faces that
they are, you know, who's doingwhat or what, but just to show
their training of what you didleading up to it.
And there, I think he talked toa lot of people, they you know,
you know, kind of likeinterviews and shit.
So, you know, I wish he did someinterviews.
Yeah, right.
I wish we had that, but wedidn't.
(44:50):
And then I remember Dan Rathersdid a piece on us too.
SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
Yeah, I have that.
I have a copy of that.
Yeah, yeah.
I think a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_04 (44:59):
Well, Blake's stone last year, you fucking hit for
me, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (45:03):
I guess I think I I was gonna say in my head, I was
like, I know I saw you, but Idon't think we talked at all.
Yeah, that's my fault, I guess.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (45:11):
I mustard shows up and just abandons me again for a
whole fucking year.
SPEAKER_01 (45:17):
So I have an insecure attachment style,
Rocha.
Give me a break.
I don't know how to love you.
SPEAKER_04 (45:26):
Well, I appreciate you sharing, man.
I hope I don't have fuckingnightmares tonight.
Yeah, I'm gonna blame you,Blake.
Bringing up all this shit.
Uh uh, yeah, it's fun though.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
That was good.
Awesome.
Well, I appreciate your time,man.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (45:44):
Yeah, any time, bro.
SPEAKER_01 (45:49):
If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe
for future episodes on yourfavorite podcast service.
This is part two of our conversation with Jamie
Rocha.
81 millimeter mortarssledgehammer platoon.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
So let's see here.
Some of the uh later stuff wewould have gotten again, you
wouldn't have done much with theBattle of Ramadi.
Um you would have gotten pulledout properly with Rainmaker,
like you said, you uh I'm notfeeling very comfortable with
that.
SPEAKER_04 (01:21):
With one of the map map platoons, I don't know which
one it was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
But then we were but then we were outer cordon for um
that first major bug hunt uhthen on the 10th, right, Nylon?
That was the 10th.
Operation bug hunt?
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah, the first official bug hunt was then uh
Operation County Fair was April8th.
That was the first small scalecoordinate search, and then
April 10th was the first bughunt in the Sophia district.
That was the only time thatthere was if you remember it,
that was the only time thathelicopters ever flew over
Ramadi and did any shooting.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
And uh we were we were doing an outer cordon on
that one, and that's the timethat we shot that poor guy up
because he ran our he ran ourchannel.
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
Are you talking about the guy who's driving a
wrecker or some bullshit?
Yeah, man, tell the story.
There you go, tell it, tell it.
Well, I remember being I didn'tshoot at the guy, so I'm proud
of myself because I was on the50 cal I mean I probably would
have demolished him, right?
You know, with the 50 cal, butwe see uh some guy turn the
(02:23):
corner and we had thatConstantine wire.
Yeah, and then we had peoplethere trying like to stop him
and he wouldn't stop.
And then and then you see himlike hold on to like the
steering wheel and put his headdown, or like, oh fuck, I mean
that's a suicide bomber.
That's why you could think,yeah, shit suicide bomber.
So everyone just starts throwingrounds at this fucking truck.
Bam, bam, bam, it sounds likefucking we should have just
(02:46):
fucking killed the dude, likeyou know, and he just rolls off
the ditch.
There's smoke coming out of thedude, like, what the fuck's
going on, right?
And I think he survived becauseI don't think I think he only
got hit once, and it was like inthe hand where we're some of the
worst shooting motherfuckersthat damn team.
(03:07):
And he comes out and I think itwas Rocco.
Was it Rocco or like a differentuh interpreter?
He's yelling at him, getting atmy if I'm if I'm if I remember
correctly, that they're sayingthat he didn't have no brakes or
some shit, driving a fuckingwrecker.
Yep, I'm like, driving a fuckingrecord with no brakes.
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
That's a hundred percent.
That's a hundred percent whathappened.
No, uh so so in my in my defenseas far as the uh the shooting
goes and why he didn't get hit,is I was shooting at the engine.
I was trying to get the truck tostop.
I wasn't shooting at the guy, tobe fair.
SPEAKER_04 (03:42):
We could we could uh we can go ahead and we'll say
that about you.
So I mean, it wasn't like Icould just throw down range with
a 50, and then we're doing that,you know, one of the bug hunts,
you know, that shit would havegone through all sorts of shit.
(04:03):
So, you know, I was never smartenough to know not to lay down.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
No, he did he did get hit a couple times.
He had some pretty he uh verysurvivable, but um no, he got
that was some nasty hits,actually.
I remember I was helping patchhim.
SPEAKER_04 (04:18):
I was on I was part of the contact.
And I want to say even Doc tookout his nine bell and started
throwing around with his ninebell shooting.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Just in case.
Just in case.
SPEAKER_04 (04:49):
Yeah, I want to say I we went to the hospital a few
times.
I don't remember why though, butwe went in.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
No, we we we had I remember there was a couple
missions that we went because wehad to go um like check or
something like that.
Maybe Nylon would know betterbecause he would have probably
done some of the similarmissions where we had to go talk
with people, like we weren'tdropping anybody off, but yeah,
I remember I remember two orthree times we were because I
(05:17):
think it was you, Rocha, you andI went up on the roof to to
provide Overwatch because wewere gonna be there for a while.
SPEAKER_04 (05:25):
Um, yes, I remember that.
And I don't remember why or whatwe were doing.
Yeah, I don't I don't remember.
I mean, and then and and and itgoes with the I was a last
corporate at the time, so it'sjust more of a you know, just do
what I say, kind of go to therooftop and you know make sure
no one started shooting at us,you know, whatever.
(05:46):
So it's just kind of like allright, yes sir, I'll just do
what you want me to do, folks.
Be up there with mustard whilethey're together.
Yeah, most of the time.
It seems like me and you arealways paired, mustard.
Like even at the governmentcenter, I have a picture of you,
you know, pointing it, you know,towards the street.
I don't know what we're doing,but I have a picture of you
doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
Yeah, I uh I like I like uh especially early on
before we got the combatreplacements and I started
pulling Martinez and Adams withme a lot.
Um I like bringing you alongbecause I could you're you're
one of the few guys that I couldtell what needed to be done and
I could trust that you would dowhat needed to be done while I
went and because I got pulledaway a lot.
(06:28):
And so I could give you I couldgive you tasks, kind of knowing
that it was gonna get done.
SPEAKER_04 (06:34):
It's gonna get done.
Yeah, I remember when they cameto us, Adams, like because he
took over my team leader'sposition since he was a
corporal, and that's a corporalbillet.
So he took it over, but he wasstill like, hey, this is your
team, so you just tell me whatyou want them to do, and I'll
tell them to do it, or whatever.
I'm like, that's cool, whatever.
You know, because he already didhis first combat deployment, and
(06:55):
he didn't, I don't, I mean, theywere volunteers to come back,
but he had told me that hisfirst stunt wasn't, you know, as
intense as ours was.
So he was just like, hey, you'vebeen, you know, fighting with
these guys already for months orwhatever, just go ahead and
we'll just I'll I'll I'll go tothe you know the debriefings or
whatever, and I'll just let youknow what's going on and help me
out with the team or whatever.
(07:15):
That's fine.
That's close, no big deal.
That's fine.
I wasn't one of these guys thatgot pissed off because oh, he
took my position.
I don't give a fuck.
I didn't really give a shitabout positions, I just want to
come home alive.
I just like dying.
SPEAKER_01 (07:27):
You know, good good priorities.
SPEAKER_04 (07:31):
I do remember me and Adams being on a rooftop and
getting fucking ambushed.
That was fucking ugly.
I don't even know when it was,but it was one of the operation
buggers.
It might have been the last one.
And because we're on top of arooftop, and it was fucking
we're there all day.
And we're sitting there, like,you know how you first you start
off, you're like, oh, you know,watching every little piece of
(07:52):
fucking crass that moves, andand then after a while, I was
like, bam, nothing, nothing.
That's a while.
You're just like walking around,scratching your ass, like not
reading, like fucking whatever,right?
And then there was a it was likea traffic jam at first, right in
front of where's where we're at.
And I remember uh looking downand I was like, What's this
fucking trick car doing?
(08:13):
And I was like, I don't know.
So I kind of turned around and Isaw a car in the eye.
Two guys get out of the car andjust start fucking laying down
the fire on us.
And we dropped so fast, I waslike, what the fuck?
We dropped so fast, and I'd hearon the radio, like, y'all shoot
back, y'all shoot back, andwe're like, fuck no, because it
felt like because it felt likeas the lower they were to the to
(08:36):
the to the rooftop, like theground, and felt like the
bullets were like coming throughthe fucking wall, and we
couldn't get up.
And I was like, man, I want toget fucking shot on top of the
head.
Like, how the fuck you get shoton top of the head, right?
Like, fuck.
And then finally it it kind ofdies out.
And and we get up and we returnfire and we hit the car like a
few times.
(08:56):
I'm sure we did.
I mean, I wasn't a bad shot,fuck, you know.
And uh, we hit the car a littlebit, it kind of swerves, and I
want to say someone else gotthat car a couple blocks, blocks
down and killed him orsomething.
You know, I can't I can'tremember the actual details or
whatever, but I I remember I wasso scared because I was like, I
think we're I think we're closeto going home.
(09:16):
And I was like, You're gonnapick my head up right now, like
because these these users arejust laying down rounds on us.
So I was like, fuck.
And and it was me and Adams.
And it's funny because uhMartinez told that story to uh
that first book that was writtenon us, and he had said in that
book, I thought Roach and Adamjust got hit.
I thought when we're going up tothe rooftop that we're gonna
(09:39):
just pick up their bodies offthe floor because they went down
so fast.
And he's like, But then I sawthem get up, return fire, and
he's like, Okay, so they'regood.
I was worried about that, youknow, and I was like, fuck.
I do remember like that, I doremember that because I that was
scary as shit.
Because I I don't remember everbeing really targeted like that,
like of course, pop shots here,blah blah blah, but it's just
(10:01):
being pinned down like that,like you don't get pinned down a
lot over there because you havehelp people are there, you know,
guys here, guys over there, youknow, guys overwatch, whatever.
But they be up be and I felt sohelpless just laying on the
floor getting shot at, and Ican't shoot back because I can't
even move to pick my head upbecause I'm scared I'm gonna get
shot.
Because the routes were comingso close, and you could see like
(10:24):
debris and the brick just flyingeverywhere, and I'm like, I'm
I'm there ain't no way I'mgetting up.
I'm gonna I tell fucking Adam Iwas like, you get up if you
want.
I ain't getting up.
So so we just laid there forlike it felt like it was a long
fucking time, but I'm prettysure they probably just switched
two magazines on us, you knowwhat I mean?
But I mean, when that's whenthey case got shit like that,
(10:47):
that that you know, it's prettyloud first off, and then and
then they were really close tous because we're we weren't like
we're fucking 100 yards away.
We're they must have been about20, 25 feet from us.
Because they're just in thebottom on the road.
They just jumped out, had theballs to jump out, they're
shooting at us.
(11:07):
But I mean, we got laxed, youknow.
Of course, I got like I said, wewe probably been there like six
hours already, seven hours,nothing, nothing over the radio.
So we just figured actuallygonna happen.
And then not complacent.
Almost took my face off, youknow what I mean?
So uh Yeah.
So I do remember that storyabout Adams all the time.
(11:29):
He was a good guy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
We did do a lot of uh standing around Overwatch
work uh as uh other things weregoing on.
You telling that story remindedme of it's uh there's a picture
in Oliver North's book.
It's when we had um I can'tremember what happened, but we
had a bunch of guys lined up andwe were we were holding a
(11:54):
corner, and uh it was anothertime that we had been there for
forever and then a car just camescreaming up really quick.
I thought we were done for, butit was uh just a guy they drive
like maniacs.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
So uh I thought that we were done for, but nope.
It was just somebody drivingreally fast.
SPEAKER_04 (12:15):
And uh fortunately we didn't shoot, but yeah, no,
we uh we probably should haveshot a lot more people than for
doing stuff like that, but Imean glad we didn't and shit,
you know what I mean?
But you know, when you're inthat type of situation
environment, a lot of times youshoot first and ask questions
(12:36):
later.
You know what I mean?
It's just hard to determine.
I mean, it's it's like thatlittle saying goes like, I don't
want to die for my country, I'lllet him die for his.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, like so I don't I Idon't wanna I didn't want to
come home with a box, so it wasjust you can kind of have to
determine on your own what thelevel of uh you know force that
(13:02):
you have to use.
You know, because your yoursquad leader, team leader gun
ain't always gonna be around,you know what I mean to tell
you.
So, you know, but it was a goodexperience that I don't know if
I missed and I would want to goback or wouldn't ever want to go
(13:23):
back.
I don't know.
I have mixed feelings for thatall the time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:26):
Well, now that you're thinking about it, what
do you think?
SPEAKER_04 (13:32):
If would I if I had to go back, I definitely would
have 100%.
I mean, I might have to get dropa few pounds, you know what I
mean?
But I mean Yeah, sure.
Yeah, we're not young menanymore.
Yeah, but uh if if I needed to,of course, I would go back in a
heartbeat.
I would have heard it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah, I mean and I guess along that same vein, any
regrets or are you good witheverything?
SPEAKER_04 (13:54):
No, no, I'm I'm good.
I mean, I'm we didn't do nothingtoo crazy to where I'm like,
man, we killed 45 people justbecause no, we didn't do nothing
like that.
So, you know, right.
I mean, we just did things thatwe needed to do and what had to
be done.
Simple as that.
It was nothing to where toocrazy.
I mean, it was crazy, don't getme wrong.
(14:15):
We did, you know, some shit thatyou know you only see in fucking
war movies and stuff like that.
But I mean, we did them becausewe needed to protect each other,
and you know, I was with Blake,you know.
I I'd rather check a you know,bullet for Blake than you know,
him for me.
So, you know, so you know, I'malright with the things we did
(14:36):
over there.
Good.
I'm at peace.
Nice.
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
So thinking about now, you probably didn't have a
ton of downtime, but when youdid have downtime, what'd you do
in the hooch, man?
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Oh fuck, you know what we did, but we just played
cards all damn day.
We played like uh uh what wasit?
Um spades 31 a lot.
We played uh uh um spades.
Of course we're fuckingmortarmen, we had to play
spades, you know.
So we played spades a lot, and Iremember it was me, uh me,
McCloud, Jonathan.
(15:12):
Jonathan remember John, right?
John and and and our doc.
But I can't remember our doc'sname for the life of me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Doc Hinkle.
SPEAKER_04 (15:20):
There, that's yes, him.
We used to play Brian Hinkle.
Yes, Brian.
We played spades a lot, and wejust uh hung out in the route,
man.
We just I mean, I had a littleDVD player, so we just watched
you know movies on a damn thing.
Everyone watched the family guyfor some fucking reason.
Had like DVs are like uh burntcopies of the family guy, and we
(15:42):
just sit there and watch andchill out, you know.
I do remember one time we'retrying to chill out, do that,
and we got uh hit by uh what wasit?
Like a little rocket, but it hadgas in it.
Do you remember that blade?
It had like gas and all thissmoke fluor, and people started
running around saying gas, gas,gas.
(16:03):
My dumb ass didn't have myfucking gas mask because it's in
the bottom of my fucking seabag.
You know, do I need a gas maskfor?
I'm not gonna put on mop gear.
And I remember like just startedcoughing and coughing, freaking
myself out.
I ran out the back of the hoopsand I took off running by myself
down the fucking pretty muchnext to the river.
And then as I was walking back,I see people yelling at me and
(16:24):
screaming and laughing, they hadtheir gas mask on and they're
taking it off.
And I'm like, the fuck y'alllaughing about me for?
Like, and I'm in my fuckinglittle fucking shorts with no
shirt on, just ran outside.
You know, I was like, I mean, Inever to this day even though
what kind of gas it was.
It it tasted like CS gas, butyeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.
(16:48):
Why would it hit us with CS gasand we fucking trained with
that?
They didn't, but they didn'tknow what they were doing.
Yeah, they didn't know.
Yeah, yeah, and I rememberbecause like it peppered right
in front of our door.
And I was like, well, I'mfucking glad it peppered there
and not on our paper thinceiling that we had up there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
No, I think that's the one that they uh it did hit
a truck.
Uh Martinez was reminding me ofthat one.
Um, but uh yeah, they they wouldjust they would knock a fin.
They didn't even know what theywere doing.
They would knock a fin off ofone of the side of the mortars
and stuff like that, just so itwould be more erratic because
they didn't know they were justtrying to lob it kind of towards
us.
(17:27):
They couldn't target.
SPEAKER_04 (17:28):
And so as a mortarman, I'm very offended by
that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:38):
But that's what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
So what else do you remember?
Do you remember any of the so wewe did some other bigger
operations?
Um, going back to the end of theend of uh April, uh, we would
have you were just doing patrolsin the first part of May is when
we lost Savage, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (17:58):
I I remember that uh we we weren't out with them.
No.
But when when they came back,they told us that he was halo
flighted, and then they broughtus back.
Because I do remember uh I thinkit was Lieutenant Dobb at the
time.
He tried to tell us and hecouldn't, he broke down.
And then I I want to say Cookstarted breaking down too, and
(18:18):
he went inside.
So Garcia had to tell us.
And I remember kind of thespeech was like, hey guys, this
sucks.
I'm sorry.
But we we could cry for ourfather later.
Right now, we have to, you know,get back and you know, take care
of business per se, I guess.
And you know, we'll you know,we'll come back to this whenever
(18:39):
we can get home or whatever.
So I mean, he wasn't being anass or anything, he's just
trying to motivate, you know,you to you know, this is what's
gonna happen.
And um just keep us going fromyou know the loss of Savage,
because Savage was he was a veryunique guy.
(18:59):
I was I was his roommate inOkinawa.
Oh yeah, he was fun.
He was fun to be with, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
I love Jeremiah.
Yeah, he was uh he was uh he wasdefinitely a guy that uh you
weren't you weren't gonna have adull time if he was there,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (19:18):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
That that was uh that was a goodthing about him, though.
He never took anything seriouswhenever you would tell us
something, and he was just allaround, just fantastic, you
know.
I finally met Mama Savage lastyear, and she's very, very nice.
She was very humble, talked toeverybody, her kids, her son.
(19:41):
I just hate that she wentthrough the same thing with her
other son.
Like he wanted to join becauseof Savage, and well, of course,
his brother, he he's a Savagetogether, and uh he got injured
in Afghanistan.
He got really fucking screwedup.
I mean, and he was close todeath, and I could just only
imagine losing both sons likethat.
But he pulled through and youknow, he survived.
(20:03):
And so, you know, she told ushis story.
He went with us last year and hewas there and gotta met them,
you know, Savage's sister,they're a very, very nice
family, trying to get thembecause we're having another
two-floor association reunion.
We have them every year, yeah.
And uh we're having this one inSeptember, late September in
(20:24):
Corpus Christi.
Uh, so this past year was pastit was uh October 3rd, this past
year, like October last month ora few months ago, whatever.
We went uh to Willisford, Texas,and that's where uh the Unraman,
the guy who wrote it, Greg uhGreg's the royal.
Yeah, yeah, he was there, and Italked to him and we took a
(20:46):
picture with him, and then thenext night we went to a World
War, I mean, uh World War IImuseum or Vietnam Museum, I
can't remember.
And you know, they took us tothe tour and then We went to a
celebrity softball tournamentwhere we got to go down there
and meet the players and meetthe celebrities and you know get
on the field.
We got honored on the field.
(21:07):
I encourage anyone who listensto this cat this podcast.
Hey, if you're in 2-4, it's a2-4 association.
So it's anyone who's ever beenin 2-4.
So you meet, you know, Vietnamvets, like you meet guys from
the 80s, like I mean Odoman, youknow, and and of course you meet
like junior Marines too.
There was like 15 junior Marinesthat when we got out, they were
just getting into 2-4.
(21:29):
And so that's how they knewWorth and you know, uh Forky.
You remember Forky?
They knew who Forky was, youknow, it just so it was like
pretty cool.
Like, you know, I kind of wantto just spread the word about
this 2-4 association.
Just you know, maybe y'all mightwant to join.
A lot of people are actually init that we know they just don't
(21:50):
go to the to the reunions.
But Hodges is in it, Late uhLatham's in it.
He comes down to Texas every sooften.
We we met up with Sergeant MajorBooker at one of them.
You know, this past year theguest speaker was uh General
Livingston, the medal honorwinner.
Yeah, and it was pretty coolbecause he actually got to swear
(22:11):
in Marine recruits on thesoftball field, and they got to
read, yeah, yeah, on the field.
He got to read on him and uhHernandez were there.
So that was pretty cool.
So if anybody wants to link,just let me know.
(22:33):
If you ever want to meet up withguys who were with you two in
your platoon, or you know,they'll be there if y'all just
coordinate together, have a goodtime.
It's always a good time toreminisce and hang out, I guess.
Talk.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah, just out of curiosity, how many how many
guys from 2004 do you think werethere?
SPEAKER_04 (22:54):
Oh well, this past time there was only uh well this
past year, it was only uh me andFern.
Fern or uh the guy ScottHastings, the he wrote that
book, uh Echoes of her body.
Yeah, he's the one who hostedit.
Yeah, but he was in 06, Ibelieve.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
He was in 06, yeah.
He was the echo companycommander in 06.
SPEAKER_04 (23:15):
Yeah, and but uh like previous times that there's
been like I've been with onewith Eccles and Latham and
Booker.
Oh, cool, you know, so yeah, soit's I mean, and Accles was like
just randomly there.
So I'm like, what the fuck areyou doing here?
You know, and this was in SanAntonio, yeah, and he's like
(23:36):
from fucking somewhere up north,like way, different country,
different state, or whatever.
And he just showed up to one ofthem, you know what I mean?
So I mean, you'll be surprisedwho you see there and who you
don't.
And then if you don't see theone that you know, it's it's
actually really good becausethen you get to hear these
Vietnam War stories, and thenyou're like, man, so I I don't
(23:57):
feel so bad because fuck y'all,y'all did some shit over there,
like you know, you're in ajungle and we're running around
the street.
But I mean, you know, so you getthe you you get to give and take
y'all's you know, experiences,and it's a bond that you know
happens.
Now, gentlemen, you know, andit's pretty cool.
Like, I want to say, what's hisname?
(24:19):
Oh Lord, he fought with golfcompany, he's a president now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, Joe Hayes.
SPEAKER_04 (24:25):
Yeah, Hayes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a president, he got swornin this past October.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah, I saw that.
I saw that video.
Yeah, that was it's good.
SPEAKER_04 (24:33):
Yeah, so you know what I mean.
So it's I mean, you you seerandom folks like that, because
I seen them before they're yearsback at one reunion, and then uh
he got sworn in as a president.
So I wouldn't, you know, likefor some of y'all guys that show
up and come, you know, you know,kind of reminisce and talk.
I don't go.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
No, I appreciate that.
No, it's it was it, I mean thatpart of what created all of this
is uh you know, when we went tothe reunion last year, and
that's kind of what we're doinghere too, is that kind of make
connections, reminisce, remembersome stuff, talk shit to one
another.
SPEAKER_04 (25:08):
Yeah, I mean, I didn't get to do that much with
you this past year because youtook off, I guess.
No, no hug or kiss or nothing.
So I was like, fuck, you justtook off on a way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
You just brought up so many feelings, man.
I didn't know what to do withall this.
SPEAKER_04 (25:25):
I said, That's muster.
She's like, he keeps on staringat you, and I was like, Yeah,
that was the love of my lifeback then.
I don't tell you.
This is like us four, and you'rejust staring right at me,
smiling in the word.
I'm looking at the camera.
I think I sent it to you.
You know, I was like, look, Iwas going back in love again.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
You're my boy, man.
You had my six, and Iappreciated it.
SPEAKER_04 (25:51):
Oh yeah, I still do, buddy.
Don't worry.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
But uh so bringing it back to uh Ramadi in 2004.
Um you remember any otherspecific missions?
I I know that you're you'rethinking a lot of the I know you
were thinking a lot about theraids that we did and a lot of
the door kicks.
We did a lot of that.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
But uh trying to I remember we were escorting a box
troke.
And I do remember we're uh Ithink we had that not that new
guy, but he was there with us,but he was a younger Marine.
I think we got him for like Ithink it was a machine gunner
because uh we started gettingmachine gunners with us for you
(26:39):
know right and uh we were justgoing to box truck, and I
remember getting ambly like shotat those like contact left for
what a round something whatever.
And I remember getting out ofthe truck and everyone's
shooting at this one house.
And I I try to cross the street,so I'm running across the
street, but I hide behind afucking chain line fence, like I
remember what the fuck I wasthinking, right?
(27:01):
And then like everyone's yellingat me, so like I push forward
and then Escabel grabs me frombehind, he's pushing forward
with me, and then we get to thehouse and we try to kick the
fucking door in, and it's it'schained up from the inside, you
know, like what the fuck?
You know, and and then wefinally get in, and then we uh
we kick down this this door, andthere's the guy just sitting
(27:23):
there, like fucking laughing atus.
So we're like, oh, is thatright?
So we kind of kind of rough themup a little bit, not not in
serious, and we handcuff them,right?
We like, you know, for zips onhim, I guess.
And if we go up to the rooftop,and there's all these fucking
shell cases everywhere.
And there's like a little bit ofblood on one corner or whatever,
(27:43):
and we're like, dude, how muchpeople were here?
So, but I don't think we everfound out what happened.
We'll just I guess it was just aregular, hey, shooting scooter
or some bullshit, and but wecaught one of them inside the
house fucking sitting therelaughing at us.
And that I want to say that hehad a tattoo of like the Iraqi
regime on his arm or somethinglike that.
So he was an Iraqi guy orsomething, like you know, like
(28:04):
an Iraqi army did that, youknow, so surrendered, buddy.
Well, Thailand, I guess,surrendered, but didn't really.
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
No, I but I actually very much remember when he took
cover behind that chain linkfence.
SPEAKER_04 (28:18):
See, that's what I forgot about that.
You know what?
Those are funny memories ofmine.
I I I try to push them way inthe back, you know what I mean?
Like trying to be like I washardcore over there.
I did some dumbass shit, youknow.
Oh, we all did.
SPEAKER_01 (28:31):
I was gonna say everybody did something stupid.
Yeah, no, I I have I have thetime that I fell off the top of
that that wall trying to getinto it, trying to to do the
raid, and Martinez gave me toomuch of a boost and it threw and
I flipped over.
And I I fell like 12 feet andlanded on my back, knocked the
wind out of me.
No, we all did.
SPEAKER_04 (28:52):
But that was like the man, I was like, dude, I
remember Eskimo just grabbing meand dragging me.
I'm like, I feel like a littlekid and my feet like dangling on
the floor.
I do remember that.
I don't remember what we weredoing though.
I well, I remember that we'reescorting a box truck because I
remember when we got shot, theytook off and we stayed behind.
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
No, we were doing a child, we were doing a child run
out to uh combat outpost.
Yep, we were doing a child runto combat outpost, and the uh
the SOP at the time was we'dstay behind while they pushed on
and yeah, but I do remember, Ijust don't remember who were
fucking protecting.
SPEAKER_04 (29:31):
I just know that we got we started getting shot at
and we just dismounted and theykept pushing forward.
And then my dumbass decided tohide behind a little bit of
brush, like hey, that was likefucking a forest field to me, I
guess.
You know, like at the time hecan't see me, so he can't shoot
me type of deal.
But no.
SPEAKER_01 (29:50):
I remember I remember standing behind a wall
with you one time too, where itwas just nothing but trash
inside that place.
And uh you couldn't see.
I'm a I'm a little bit tallerthan you and I could see over
the wall, but you couldn't.
And so I remember I kicked abunch of trash up underneath me
and I was like, stand on this.
You're so you're so pissed at mebecause I made you stand on a
(30:12):
pile of trash.
And I was like, I don't give afuck.
I need you to see.
SPEAKER_04 (30:27):
Yeah, but that's pretty much.
I mean, don't have a lot morememories.
Wish I did.
There's there's a few of themthat when we're smoking in a
smoke pit, of course, we get youknow mortared, and everyone's
just jumping on the ground untilwe the mortar stop and then just
get up and keep on smoking acigarette, you know, like you
know what I mean.
(30:48):
I remember, yeah, I want to sayLelong got got like a uh hold of
like one of those hookah tobaccothings.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Right, I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_04 (31:00):
Yeah, and like his mom would send them because
Lalong likes to roll his owncigarettes as the fucking most
ugliest thing.
I smoke cigarettes, right?
And my mom used to send me acarton of cigarettes, but those
those Iraqi cigarettes, man,it's like smoking four reds in
one, so I was like, no, butLalon would just roll his own
(31:21):
cigarettes, so it looked like hehad a bunch of just weed joints
just in a fucking bag, you know,he just rolled his own
cigarettes, you know.
But then he got a hold of thosehookah things and he was out
batches sucking on that thingfucking all the time.
I was like, Who the fuck did youget this from?
You know, I don't remember himever telling me how he got it or
why he even got it, but I'massuming it might have been
(31:42):
that.
Remember that guy used to comein and sell all this crazy
stuff, you know?
Yeah, the DVD guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, oh yeah, the DVD guy.
Yep.
All the poor party guys likedhim.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
A lot of bootlegged uh movies from that guy and a
lot of other contraband forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (32:09):
He he had all kinds of crap.
He had candy bars, he had Fanta,he had all kinds of shit.
SPEAKER_04 (32:14):
Yeah, I never I never trusted in that shit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Well, we ended up killing him in a raid, so it
didn't matter.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:21):
Well, I mean, that that he was probably checking
out our our cat.
He definitely was.
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Yeah, that was that was what the uh assertion was.
Gunny Maraki swore up and down,he saw him pacing off uh the
camp and measuring it out foryou know what maybe indirect
fire.
I guess if you could findsomebody who could who could
read a plot, but so yeah, thatwas I'm I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_04 (32:47):
That's uh awesome, I guess.
Yeah.
Suck for him, good for us, Iguess.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
I don't trying to trying to remember some of the
other bigger operations that wewould have been a part of.
Nile, do you have a couple ofthose?
SPEAKER_00 (33:06):
I mean, the things that I know that you guys were a
part of, there was the uhengineers that were killed by
the IED on the dam.
That was late May May 29th.
SPEAKER_04 (33:15):
On the levee, right?
SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (33:17):
I remember that shit because when it happened, we we
just saw bodies flying in theair.
Like, what the because it was hekind of like circled around, and
then uh it was me and what wasthis the uh our first SRNA, Mac?
Yeah, and he was walking withus, and he goes, He goes, Go
(33:38):
look at that bike right there.
And I said, Did you see whathappened over there?
Like, fucking no, like that'sthe first time I was like, He
goes, You're scared?
And he's like, and this wasafter we got hit by that bike
bomb, too.
So I'm like, and then theystarted searching the the water,
and there's nobody out there, noone, no fishermen.
So that bike is by itself.
So I'm like, Oh, thismotherfucker wants me to get
(33:59):
killed.
Like, oh fuck, so I'm going realslow.
He's like, you know what?
I'll just do it, stand behindme.
And I'm fairly certain.
I mean, I he probably wouldprotect me how big he was.
SPEAKER_03 (34:08):
Yeah, and then uh last year kicks the bike over,
and he's like, Oh, there's nobomb in it, and he walks away.
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
I remember that.
Yeah, he carried a shotgun mostof the time.
Yeah, see, I remember that.
SPEAKER_04 (34:22):
So I was like, What the fuck?
I'm I was like, Yeah, I'm notgonna go check that bike.
I was like, uh, can we get Imean there is no one around in
the water in the bank by itself.
So I'm like, why?
And he's like, I'll just do itmyself, and he just walked past
me.
You know how his big ass waslike down here's 6'6 and shit,
like you know, and I was like,okay, dude, he's a big that is
(34:45):
the biggest man I've ever seenin person.
SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
I mean, I know there's bigger.
I mean, I've seen basketballplayers and shit, but like
that's the biggest likenon-professional sports man,
yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
Yeah, and I was like, oh fuck, you know, I was
like, Well, if it blows up, Imight have some protection
behind him.
I don't know.
But I I do remember that thatlevy got killed two engineers,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
They're we're uh I think we're doing ID sweeps,
right?
Or something.
Yeah, and they were they werestanding on top of it when it
went off.
To my understanding, theysurvived.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
I was just gonna say, I I the last I knew that
they had certain trap.
SPEAKER_04 (35:22):
I mean, those were horrendous injuries, but yes, I
think um I want to say I heardthat both of them lost at least
one leg and an arm, or you know,someone lost two arms and a leg
or something like that.
But yeah, but I mean they justsurvived.
So I never got their names, orbecause of course you weren't
with our platoon, or you're notgonna be able to do it.
Yeah, they're engineers.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
No, yeah, I mean their names are written down, we
can find them, but they're yeah.
Um but then the other big one II don't know if this is the next
one you're gonna talk about,Nyland is either.
Uh when Condi got killed, whichwe weren't out for, we did
respond to it.
But then also when uh we werethe ones that transported the
(36:03):
bodies after uh the snipers gotkilled.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
Yeah, basically, right you were you were talking
about the gas shell attack atHurricane Point, but not long
after that, like a week afterthat was when the snipers got
killed.
SPEAKER_04 (36:15):
Yeah, it was uh if I'm correct, it was Conteas,
Ote, Parker.
I can't remember the fourth one.
I see his face.
I can't remember his name.
But I remember Conteras becauseuh he's from Houston.
And I remember being on a uhseven time, and it was like days
(36:37):
before that.
I guess they were leaving and Idon't know why, but I was a
fucking fat guy in the platoon,and I wasn't even being but
whatever.
Fuck all the alright, and uh hewas on there and he was yelling
at me, hey, watch out, you fatass, I'll see you later, blah
blah talking shit, whatever.
And then that's the lastinteraction that I had with him,
(36:58):
and then you know he got killed.
I I see that guy's face.
I don't remember, but it was Iremember Otay, Parker, and
Conderas, right?
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, andthen I came up the other guys.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Yep, and then we we uh we were we were the ones that
transported them up to Al Assad.
SPEAKER_04 (37:16):
Yeah, they're in my truck, they're laying down.
They were in my truck, and I wasstanding up because I didn't
know what to do.
And it it was the ugliestfeeling in the world because
when when we're transferringthem, like you could tell that
their bodies were hitting up,like you know, the home fee, you
know, bed or whatever, you know.
It felt it felt ugly because I'mgonna do this.
(37:38):
I wanted to hold their headsjust because fuck, I mean, you
know, so I sat down with one ofthem because I think Adams was
with me back there too, Adamsand Martinez.
Yeah, and we just kind of likecradled some of them so that
way, you know.
I mean, of course they weren't,you know, they're with us
anymore, but just it was justwanted to do.
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
Yeah, I mean, well, not only that, I mean, their
families are gonna see themeventually.
There's no reason for things tobe worse, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:06):
You know, and we were going pretty quick.
I I want to say, Muster, we gotshot at too, right?
On the way up there.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
We did.
SPEAKER_04 (38:15):
And we couldn't stop because uh well, I don't think
we wanted to stop.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
That's right.
SPEAKER_04 (38:22):
So we just flew through it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
Yep.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:25):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
You know, no, we got engaged just north of the city,
but we didn't stop.
SPEAKER_04 (38:29):
So yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Because we wanted to take them,you know.
So yeah, I do remember that.
I do.
No, that mission.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
That was that was a rough mission.
That wasn't fun.
SPEAKER_04 (38:39):
No, I remember that.
That was what we uh yeah, yeah.
That was not too good.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
Yeah, and so and then shortly thereafter, uh June
30th was when uh Matt 3 was outall night and then Condi was
killed on the morning of July1st.
Uh shortly thereafter, thepolice station got blown up.
Let's see, OP Library got blownup on July 21st.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
We went to that one.
SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think almost everybodydid, and that was the one that
was kind of sort of famous uh onuh the Oliver North War Story
show.
There was you know Humveesbounding and shooting it and all
that stuff, taking taking firenext to Saddam's mosque.
So there's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03 (39:22):
Yeah, I think was uh was that like the government was
it the government center?
SPEAKER_00 (39:27):
So it was right next to the government center.
SPEAKER_04 (39:29):
Yeah, so I I I remember that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:33):
Yep.
And then August, August wasOperation Traveler, that was
when we were going afterZerkawi, and we ended up getting
his driver, and that was it.
Because his mom, his mom orgrandma or something like that,
aunt, uncle, something lived inRamadi.
SPEAKER_01 (39:48):
Yeah, actually, he was bringing up uh Oliver North.
Uh, do you he rode he rode withus a lot?
Um, yeah.
And so and so did a lot of otherreporters for whatever reason.
I know we took him around.
Uh, do you have any specificmemories of uh trying to deal
with the reporters and or OliverNorth?
SPEAKER_04 (40:08):
I I remember getting shot at, and Oliver North is
like just jumping out of thetruck like he had his own
fucking weapon, and he's like,They're over there, shoot that
way.
And we're like, get the fuckback, get back.
You know, you're behind us, oldman.
What's wrong with you?
He was just like that tough oldman, he didn't give a shit.
His reporter would always stayin a truck, like he wouldn't get
(40:29):
out.
Now man, I'm sorry, he'sreported.
His uh, his his cameraman.
Yeah, he'd always stay in atruck, he wouldn't get out once
once he heard any kind ofscuffle or round or just
anything.
He uh that's that was his cue tostay his ass in the truck and he
wouldn't get off.
Oliver North would get off.
He didn't give a shit.
He used to get off, and I mean,of course, that's good old
Ollie, right?
(40:50):
So I mean, yeah, and what can'tyou tell him either?
Like, you know, it's fuckinghe's been here and done that.
You don't want to.
Like, get in the truck, he'dprobably tell you, go fuck
yourself, you know, do ithimself.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
So I remember early on when he was with us, he it
was after a scuffle, and he saidsomething about it reminding him
about Vietnam.
He had a little bit of a grin onhis face when he said it.
He's like, good chick, gents, orsomething.
I can't remember what he said.
But I was like, all right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:21):
You're living your dream and you're he was in your
truck a lot with with because Iwas in there a few times with
him with you.
SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:30):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (41:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (41:32):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, because I think Gunnyhad an up-armored vehicle at the
time.
SPEAKER_01 (41:37):
Yeah, we we got it.
I ended up having an up-armorvehicle a little bit more often.
But that was mostly because hewas well, it was because they
would give us I think it was.
I mean, Gunny even said to me,he's like, he wanted to give me
the reporters and Oliver becausehe knew that I out of anybody I
was probably the least likely tosay something stupid.
And so he always gave me thespecial package to deal with.
SPEAKER_04 (42:01):
Yeah, and so pretty much where you went, I was with
you, so fell.
Yeah.
So yeah, I do remember him beingthere.
I I've never I've seen uhbecause I want to say when we
went, uh when we got back, hehad made uh what was it like a
battle of Vermonty something orwhatever?
(42:22):
Like it was a whole not just onespecific battle was like you
know, a generalized of what wedid and the training part of
what we did to go over there,but I think that got cut from
the DVD because that's not onthere.
And I was hoping it would bebecause fuck I'm I was on the
fucking training party, at leastshit, right?
But but uh you know, uh that uhthat got cut for some reason.
(42:45):
And I've I've been always tryingto look for it because they show
us that remember when we didthat uh that CQB training and we
went to some fucking town and wehad like those vests.
Someone in the backyard.
Well, I don't know where we'reat, stage two, but I mean, and
we had like that little, youknow, where if you get shot, it
it'll tell you on a chest, leg,arm, or whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (43:07):
That train that sounds like you were wearing
miles gear, and that would beMarch Air Force Base.
That was March Air Force Base inthe old abandoned officers'
housing.
SPEAKER_04 (43:16):
Yeah.
There you go.
There, there you go.
And so I mean, and then he hadfootage of us doing that, yeah,
and then going off and thendoing other things, you know,
just just I like to see thetraining aspect before and then
see what we went through, andthen when we came back 80 years
older and shit, you know, yeah,for sure.
(43:38):
You know, so that was that thatthat would have been cool to
see.
But I mean, I think because Iwant to say he had showed it to
us when we had our like prettymuch first Marine Corps ball,
like when we got back.
We didn't really have one, yeah.
You know, and then he had it onthe big screen, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:55):
But of course, no one really cares.
I I forgot about that, but Ithink you're I I you're I'm
remembering that now.
There was a lot more, there wasa lot more footage.
Yeah, I wonder what happened tothat.
SPEAKER_04 (44:06):
That's a really good point.
Yeah, you know, that's what I'msaying.
So I wish you would have kept itin in some kind of like outtake
real or just something, justsomething so that way we could
look back and see all the guysbecause they showed actual the
faces, like it's hard to seewhen he's doing like real life,
you know, real-time, you know,warfare and who's doing what
(44:29):
because you're moving so fast,you don't see what faces that
they are, you know, who's doingwhat or what, but just to show
their training of what you didleading up to it.
And there, I think he talked toa lot of people, they you know,
you know, kind of likeinterviews and shit.
So, you know, I wish he did someinterviews.
Yeah, right.
I wish we had that, but wedidn't.
(44:50):
And then I remember Dan Rathersdid a piece on us too.
SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
Yeah, I have that.
I have a copy of that.
Yeah, yeah.
I think a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_04 (44:59):
Well, Blake's stone last year, you fucking hit for
me, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (45:03):
I guess I think I I was gonna say in my head, I was
like, I know I saw you, but Idon't think we talked at all.
Yeah, that's my fault, I guess.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (45:11):
I mustard shows up and just abandons me again for a
whole fucking year.
SPEAKER_01 (45:17):
So I have an insecure attachment style,
Rocha.
Give me a break.
I don't know how to love you.
SPEAKER_04 (45:26):
Well, I appreciate you sharing, man.
I hope I don't have fuckingnightmares tonight.
Yeah, I'm gonna blame you,Blake.
Bringing up all this shit.
Uh uh, yeah, it's fun though.
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
That was good.
Awesome.
Well, I appreciate your time,man.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (45:44):
Yeah, any time, bro.
SPEAKER_01 (45:49):
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