December 24, 2025 • 46 mins
Great convo with Brian Fox who in 2004 was a corporal fapped to military police and refuses to drift away to his end of enlistment... and fights to return to Ramadi. Arriving alone to a bonded unit and earning trust by taking the wheel of Vehicle 2 in Rainmaker platoon. The story tracks hard choices, aggressive driving, VBIEDs on Route Michigan, and the rituals that hold a platoon together.
• volunteering out of a FAP to rejoin 2/4 as a first-wave combat replacement
• getting assigned to Weapons Company at Hurricane Point
• the lonely integration of a new Marine into a battle-hardened platoon
• adopting a sustainable five-section rotation for missions and QRF
• LCpl Savage KIA and stepping up to drive Vehicle Two
• tactics of convoy driving under IED and VBIED threat
• reading crowds, roads and tells for ambush
• chasing triggermen to disrupt IED supply chains
• firefights and respect for a clever enemy
• superstitions, small rituals and music pumps before mission
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story
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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
All right, Brian.
Well, go ahead and uh introduceyourself, tell everybody who you
were and uh what rank you werein 2004 and what platoon you
were with.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
Yep, most definitely.
Good afternoon.
Uh name is Brian Fox.
Uh I came to you guys from 3rdBattalion, 5th Marines in 2004,
and I was a corporal at thetime.
Rainmaker platoon, is thatright?
I did, I did with uh SergeantGarcia.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Well, you were before we push record, you
already said that you're uh kindof thinking about the way you
got over there, so we can startfrom there, the formation and uh
learning about going on anotherdeployment.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Yeah, actually uh I talked to Sergeant Garcia
probably a few weeks back,shortly after he did his podcast
and told me about your guys'program here.
And uh he asked the question, hegoes, Can you tell me or recap
how we met?
And I said, sure.
So I guess I guess I'll startfrom that.
Um, well, as you guys know, youtalked to other people in 3.5.
We were your guys' combatreplacements, and I think it was
(01:35):
the beginning of May.
So building up how we how we gotto that point.
So got home from the initialpush in 2003 with uh 3.5, got
home around September, spentsome time uh back in the States,
and actually, I think it was thefirst time in San Mateo's
history that all fourbattalions, including yourself,
was was there.
(01:56):
So we we, my company, we weren'table to live in any barracks in
San Mateo.
We actually got one of theKwanzett huts in Horno for
overflow because there wasn'tany more rooms available when we
first got.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, because that that soundsamazing.
Yeah, all three battalions thatwere over, and then you guys,
you guys were in Okinawa, andyou got extended out there
(02:16):
actually for a long time, didn'tyou?
Yeah, six months.
Yeah, and so we were all we wereall there at the same time in
the base, and of course, it'snot set up for that one
battalion that's supposed to bein Okinawa at the time, you
know, and they just rotate thehousing.
So now that all four of us arethere, we're in quantity huts.
I tell you that, I tell you thatbecause uh it builds up to we
were having a battalionformation, so all the Horno
(02:39):
Marines that were living there,we had to drive over to San
Mateo.
And of course, you get thereearly, right?
You don't want to be latestandby to standby.
So we get there tremendouslyearly, and our platoons holding
a little formation.
And we had one of our staffsergeants, no names, but we we
didn't like his leadershipstyle, and he gathered us all up
at uh the basketball courtswhere we're just meeting a
(03:01):
little uh horseshoe there, andhe's just laying into one of our
shipbird marines, like you everyplatoon has one, right?
You know, and uh and he's justlaying into them about personal
things, your finances.
I'm getting calls from thiscredit card company and this and
this and this.
And it wasn't a real formation,it was a horseshoe.
But in there, I raised my hand,I was like, Staff Sergeant,
(03:22):
maybe this is something you guyscould take offline.
You know, the platoon doesn'tneed to know about this stuff.
For sure.
And he yeah, and and and hegoes, Corporal Fox, I think you
just need to be quiet right now.
And I go, Oh, with all respect,you know, staff sergeant.
I think I think you're you'rethe one that needs to be quiet
right now.
That triggered now isspotlighted, right?
So so we h we hold ourformation, we go back to Horno,
(03:45):
and that staff sergeant walksinto our Kwanzaa and he's like,
Give me Corporal Fox right now.
And he pulls me over to the sideand he goes, Do you have a
problem with me?
I go, I don't have a problemwith you, I just have a problem
with what you did.
You know, that was all personalstuff in front of a formation,
regardless of who it was.
And he goes, he goes, Um, you'regonna be problems.
He goes, if I can get you facedout, would you go?
(04:06):
And I was like, Where's thedotted line?
I'll sign it right now.
So he got me actually fappedout.
I was like one of two Marines inin 3.5 that got out and I was
fapped out, and I got assignedto military police.
And it it was a job.
I I stood the gates, that's allI was.
I wasn't certified to drive thepatrol cars and do anything like
(04:29):
that.
You know, fapped out is youknow, you like less than a year
on your contract, you just get afiller filler job.
I could have hopefully I couldhave got you know passing out
towels at the gym or somethinglike that, but no, they got
military police, and andactually, like the schedule
there wasn't that bad.
If if they stuck to theirschedule and didn't play fuck
fuck games like they do, youwould work like 16 days a month.
(04:51):
It was a schedule like work two,two days off, work three, three
days off, something like that.
Um well, I tell you that becauseall of a sudden I get a phone
call from um one of my friends.
He's he's his name's Travis Day,or Colonel.
Yeah, you guys know.
Yeah, yeah.
He was in my platoon.
Yeah, yeah.
So so I get a I get a phone callfrom Colonel, and and he goes,
(05:13):
dude, they're gonna get anotherround out of us.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, uh, I guess we'reholding a formation tomorrow and
they're gonna give us threeoptions to pick from.
And I was like, What what timetomorrow?
And yeah, I don't remember thetime, but he told me, but it was
on one of my days off.
And I go, you know what?
I'm I'm gonna go and I'm gonnago listen.
So it's it's my day off.
I think I showed up in civviesand I don't remember where it
(05:35):
was.
I heard someone said it was inthe gym or something like that.
And and they pretty much uhgather up all the the short
timers, people with less than ayear, uh, and they go, it boils
down to three options for youguys.
Uh either you're gonna re-enlistand stay with 3-5, you're gonna
extend your contract and do onemore deployment with 3-5, or
you're gonna be a combatreplacement for 2-4.
(05:56):
It's your choice.
We need your choice pretty muchnow.
And uh so everyone's just like,oh shit, okay.
You know, when you when you getthat thrown at you, what are you
gonna do?
And uh I remember my old uhplatoon lieutenant was there, uh
Lieutenant uh uh Dunkelberger, Ibelieve it was.
And uh and I go, sir, I said, Isaid, I don't I don't know how
(06:17):
this works or anything, but canI get out of my FAP?
He goes, I'm not sure either.
I was like, well, how do I geton that list?
He goes, I don't know.
You're gonna have to talk toyour uh military police chain of
command.
And I was like, okay, I thinkI'm gonna try doing that.
And and I go back and I talk tothe desk sergeant on that day
off, and I go, hey, I was like,how does this work with FAPS?
Can I like volunteer to end myFAP and go out?
(06:40):
He goes, I don't I don't thinkit works like that.
He goes, Tomorrow you're gonnahave to talk to your first
sergeant.
And I was like, okay.
So the next day comes and I I gotalk to the um first sergeant.
No, no, no, no, I take thatback.
The staff sergeant says, I don'tthink you can.
Uh, if anything, you're gonnahave to talk to first sergeant.
Well, I had questions, okay?
And me being naive, it workedout.
I actually called 3-5's XO.
(07:03):
Okay, so I called the office, Igot somehow connected to him,
and I sir, how does this work?
I'm Brian Fox, 3-5, I'm FAP Dow,81's platoon, all this other
stuff.
You know, they the the rest ofthe guys were given a choice.
I want to figure out how to workout this fact to get out of
this.
You know, he goes, Okay.
He goes, here's my office line.
Give it to your command and havethem call me.
(07:23):
I'm sure we can work somethingout.
So that's where the next day Iwent to the the first sergeant
and I and I knocked on his doorfor the military police and I
said, Hey, first sergeant, youknow, Corporal Fox, you know,
fapped out from 3.5.
Uh, my guys are in a situation,they're going back.
I want to figure out how to goback with them.
He goes, You have no right totalk to that chain command, you
no longer report to him, you'remilitary police, you know, all
(07:44):
this other stuff.
And I said, Okay.
I said, but I do have a phonenumber of my old SO, and I'm
hoping you can give him a call.
And he's like, Okay.
And so I paused and I'm waitingfor him to grab a pen, like he's
gonna write down that number.
He's like, Corporal, what's thedamn number?
And I'm like, Oh, 760, blah,blah, blah, blah.
And he didn't write anythingdown.
He goes, Good job.
You gave me the phone number,get out of my office.
(08:06):
And I was like, Well, that sonof a bitch, he's not gonna call
him.
They didn't even write down hisnumber, you know, obviously.
And so, so what do I do?
Well, I have the number, so Icall it back and I talk to my
exo again, my old XO.
And I was like, Hey, sir, talkedto you yesterday, you know,
faced out.
And he didn't take down yournumber.
I don't think he's gonna giveyou a call.
He's like, Hold up.
You hear some type, and he goes,Is it first serious?
(08:28):
I don't remember his name.
And I go, Oh, yes, sir, it is.
He goes, Tell him to check hisdamn email.
And I was like, Oh, not doingthat, not doing that, you know.
So, so the next morning was mywork day, and and in there, when
you start a day, it's a 12-hourshift.
So I report there like at 0400,and we get our morning briefing,
and then we go out to all ourgates, and you get a sign what
(08:50):
gate you're signing at.
Okay, you know, Bobby and Jim,you're going to you know, Del
Mar gate, you're doing this, andmy name wasn't called.
And they go, Corporal Fox,report back to your chain of
command, you're no longermilitary police.
And so I was like, Oh, hellyeah.
So I got out of the fat, youknow.
So, so now I'm like in thispurgatory mode.
(09:11):
I'm I'm like really assigned tomilitary police.
I'm somehow figuring out how tofinagle my way back to a
deployment with my with mybrothers, you know.
The only reason I want to go isbecause they're going.
And I heard some of you guys'podcasts, like uh one of you
guys were uh uh embassy, uh, youhad orders to it, but your
feeling is if you went to thatand something happened, you you
(09:32):
know, that would probably hauntyou for the rest of your life.
Well, that was my feeling withwith my guys that I was very
close with, yeah, yeah, uh,since since SOI.
Um, so so now I'm somehow onthis roster back with 3-5, and
and so I'm on the list to be acombat replacement because
that's what I picked, and thenwe had an option to be first
(09:55):
wave or second wave.
First wave is leaving like in aweek or two, and second wave is
a to be determined date.
Well, if you're gonna do it,let's rip off the band-aid.
So the group that you guys knowof were the ones that all raised
our hand to be part of firstwave.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Oh, what what happened is second wave, who was
who was gonna do it, theyactually never went, you know.
Oh, so so they they never gotcalled up.
So so I got out of MPs, I didthis first wave, you know,
second wave didn't deploy.
And then we're um they actuallydid like a week training or
(10:29):
something like that.
We were all pissed off becausewe were like, if we're if we're
going back over, why are wespending a week camping at this
mountain town doing doing someroom cleaning clearing training?
Or you know, if we're leaving,we would rather be with our
families.
Like we it was it was a campout.
We were we were staying thenight over there and all this
other stuff.
So that training went by, andnow it's time to fly out.
(10:51):
And and like some told you, weflew a commercial flight and and
got into uh Kuwait, and um,yeah, and we were off to go see
you guys.
Actually, actually, it's alittle more to that.
They we flew in, I don'tremember where we trucked to,
and we we set up at one of ourbase, and there there was a
handful of people from 3.5.
We had we have the group thatyou know, which is all 81's
(11:15):
platoon, I think it was therewas a total of nine of us.
There was a small group of catplatoon, and there was pockets
of group of all our linecompanies, Lima, Kilo, and
India, and everything from 3-5.
So, for the sake ofconversation, let's just say
there was nine to ten of us ineach one of those clusters,
right?
And and we staged at this place,and we're getting who what
(11:37):
battalion we're going to.
We did not at that time, I toldyou it'd be a combat replacement
for 2-4.
It wasn't actually said thatway, it was just a combat
replacement.
We didn't know who it was for atthe time.
Okay, and we didn't we didn'tknow who it was until we we we
all got staged up, all thoseclusters of 10.
Um, and I don't remember wherewe were at.
Uh we we landed in Kuwait, and Ithink we trucked to this place.
(12:00):
Yeah, and um and all of asudden, like all of Cat Platoon,
they got sent somewhere else,and then everyone else that was
there pretty much got sent to2-4.
Okay, so Cat Platoon wentsomewhere else, 81s, and then I
think it was two or threepockets of line company guys uh
went went to 2-4.
(12:21):
And and we got there.
Um, I know for a fact that fromwhere we were at, either we flew
somewhere closer and theytrucked us on seven tons.
And I remember that because umwe were all like standing up on
the seven tons and looking, andthen when we got to you guys,
you're like, You guys truckedin?
And we're like, Yeah, we'retrucked in.
(12:42):
But I'm I'm sure one of you guysmet us as mission, day missions,
or QRF and escorted SN orsomething like that.
So we get to you guys, and and Iand I don't know where they
clustered us all up.
I want to say it was so we'reall in Hurricane Point at that
time.
And let's just say we're in oneof the, I think there was a
bigger room in one of thepalaces, or or maybe it was a
(13:02):
large tent or something likethat.
And it was it was, I want to sayit was first sergeant um Mac
that was hosting and organizingeverything.
Off of my memory, my story,that's what it is.
I remember that we're all we'reall like sitting in our groups.
Because when you're in your inyour close with your unit, so
(13:24):
that's who you hang out with.
You you're you're all 35, butyou're different things.
So we're all clustered, all ofweapons company, all of the Lima
company guys, and First CERNsays, Hey, you guys are all
gonna go in your little clustersto different areas.
Um weapons company needs needslike 10 people.
Um Snake Pit, was it?
(13:46):
Yeah, Fox Company.
Yeah, uh, and there was therewas another combat outpost with
golf and echo.
Okay, so they were dividing itup.
And from what I remember, thatuh first star Matt, very, very
cool guys, let us make a lot ofour own decisions.
Um and he goes, So I will leaveit up to you guys on where
you're going.
(14:07):
And I remember when he came backin to figure out where we're
going, he he started with one ofour line companies, and he goes,
So where where is this groupgoing?
And someone says, Hey, we wewant to be the people in your
guys' weapons company.
And then he goes, All right,where are you?
Where's this line company going?
And he said, uh, whatevercompany was in Snake Bit.
(14:28):
And then he got to us and we'relike, Well shit, that means
we're a line company.
We aren't a line company.
So our group was like, Well,hold up, there's a problem.
We want to be weapons companybecause we are a weapons
company, and we understand thatyou guys aren't using your
cruise serves, but if you do, weknow how to operate the mortars
and everything.
And and the fact that the firsttime uh after we got to Baghdad,
(14:49):
we all settled in a city and wewere we were QRF for that city,
so we drove all the Humvees andall the cruise serve weapons and
everything else.
So that's what we do, and that'swhat you guys are doing here.
We think it should be us.
And he and he was like, Yeah,that makes sense.
You're going to weapons company,you're going to the line
company.
So so thank thank goodness forthat, actually.
Um, just because that's what weknew, that's what we were
(15:11):
comfortable with.
Yeah.
Um, so we we were now uh weaponscompanies, and and we we walked
up to your guys' uh uh huts.
I think there was six of them.
The first one was the first onestaring at all of them was the
translator hut, I believe.
Yeah, the closest one to thegate.
(15:33):
Yeah, and then rainmaker, youguys sled, and then the then the
others.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Map one headquarters, map two, map
three.
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
Yeah.
So so we're all standing inbetween Rainmaker and
Sledgehammer, and it was likeall the sections leader came
out, you know, and it was justlike it was like picking your
Pokemon cards, you know.
So I I remember like um SergeantG was like, Well, Rainmaker
needs one, and he goes, Oh,we'll take you, and he pointed
(16:00):
to me.
So when I told Sergeant G thestory, I told him all that, and
I go, So how did we meet for thefirst time?
You just pointed at me and said,Hey, you're with us, and I said,
Okay, you know, and then uhSledgehammer, you guys got Adams
Martinez Clark, and the firsttime you got Larson, and then um
Hampton, Colonel, um Martinezand uh John Mark Lopez, uh, they
(16:26):
all went to the maps.
Um so yeah, so that's that's howI first met you guys.
Um and it it was it was anexperience.
And I tell you, it was anexperience because I mean I was
I was picked all by myself.
And and I was all this is thisis if you if you edit that, this
is where you put in the sadsoppy music and everything
because this I was I was I was Iwas so alone.
(16:51):
I I really was so so everyonehad someone, and I think it was
just a couple of days, you know,that I was with with them all by
myself, but I mean not knowinganyone.
I mean, I remember the firsttime after we got settled in D
Winia and everything, we got wegot some NBC guys dropped to us,
and I remember it was a verycold welcoming.
(17:13):
Like they aren't they aren'twith you, they aren't bonded
with you, you don't know howthey operate or anything like
that.
They may have rank, you don't,you know, rank is everything in
in the infantry.
You don't respect thatindividual or that rank because
they're new at that time.
And I never thought I would bein that situation, but there I
was, you know.
I was I was that new guy bymyself with a platoon that I
(17:36):
mean you get you guys wentthrough shit.
Um, and you guys, you guys weredefinitely bonded um through
battle, and um, and here I am,just this new guy by myself.
And man, I just felt so isolatedand so out of place and
everything.
And and I was like, man, this iswhat I volunteered for, you
know, not to be with anyonebecause the whole volunteer
thing was to be with with one ofmy guys from 3-5.
(17:56):
Sure.
Um, so it was it was actuallyfor Sar Mac.
Uh did a really good job.
Kudos to him.
Um, he he he checked in on us.
You you you could tell who wewere to, and the reason you
could tell who the 3-5 Marinesis because we didn't have the
Dead Dizzy's, so we got thosejust before we deployed, but we
didn't get the uh eight-pointcovers, we got Dedget Boonies,
(18:18):
so we were the only ones thathad boonies with you guys.
Yeah, um, so so when you saw aboonie guy, that was a combat
replacement.
But he he checked in with us,and I think he started with me,
and he goes, Hey Corporal Fox,how's the platoon you know,
treating you?
And platoon was actually veryrespectful, um, uh as welcoming
as they could be, you know.
(18:39):
Um, I was right beside uh Hodgesand Herschel.
Everyone everyone has a story ofhim.
So I slept right beside them.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Um everyone has a uh every everyone has a Joe
Herscher story, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:54):
I saw that man naked more than I see myself naked,
but um and it's a humblingexperience, isn't it?
Yeah, and then Hodges Hodges waslike senior by age, I believe.
I believe it was much older thaneveryone.
He's like, God dang, you know,put that weapon away.
We don't need to see that thing,you know.
So that that was like mymornings I woke up to.
(19:16):
Um, but but he uh first sergeantchecked in and he goes, Fox, how
you doing?
I said, Doing well, how's theplatoon treating you?
Oh, doing well, getting to knoweveryone.
And he goes, Well, who's yourbuddy or something like that?
I go, I don't have one, youknow, they only needed one
person.
He's like, No, it ain't gonnawork like that.
You need you need one person.
And so I remember gathering upum Adam, Martinez, Clark, and
(19:37):
Larson, and I go, Hey guys, Isaid, It sucks not having
someone.
I was told to pick from someone,you guys have four, everyone's
either else two or three.
I said, uh, who want who wantsto come over with me?
And and Martinez and Adams werelike, Wow, you know, we're we're
we're best friends.
They're you know, they they'relike two kittens always
wrestling.
And uh and and Clark, Clark isjust like, hey, they're they're
(20:00):
they're giving me a leadershipposition or something like that.
And I was like, Larson, come on,come on over here, you know.
Um, so I took him and and thatwas good.
In fact, my 12 year old that youmay hear, his name is Royce, and
the guy that I took was RoyceLarson.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (20:18):
So that that's that's how we got to you guys.
That's where it started.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Yeah, no, I can't, I I hadn't really thought.
about it until we're reallyhaving a little bit more of a
conversation with Mike andJason.
That uh I mean the the tale isas old as time of the new guys
coming to a uh a unit that'sbeen hit hard that they're a
combat replacement and then thethe people that have been there
(20:46):
just like it's you know whetherit's conscious or unconscious
it's hard to integrate that newperson um for a variety of
reasons.
That's uh that's a that's arough role.
SPEAKER_03 (20:59):
Yeah you don't you don't ever think you're gonna be
in it until you're in it andthen you're like oh this is this
is what it's like you know so umbut but that feeling was short
lived you know the um uhsergeant sergeant g and you're
gonna you guys are gonna have tohelp me with names sergeant uh
leighton I believe it was yeahum there's a lot of other
(21:20):
individuals obviously in theplatoon um but they uh they were
welcoming I I didn't really likereceive cold shoulders or any or
anything negative um it was avery it was a young platoon uh I
knew that uh a lot of the a lotof the corporals were were newly
promoted and um sergeant G andLeighton they they seem to be
(21:40):
seasoned and everything but itwas a young platoon so I'm
thinking my my rank helped umanother thing that helped is uh
I'll get to it it was when Ivolunteered uh to drive but uh I
guess that will segue into thisso when we got to you guys um
you know I I think we flew outbeginning of May and staged for
(22:02):
a while and ended up finallygetting to you guys either a day
or the day of of salvage and andwe remember that that uh I think
Rainmaker um they were going outwell first off you know what
your guys is the schedule thatyou guys had was very good and
and I I don't know if you guystalked about that um you guys
(22:24):
had five sections I believebetween the things and your
rotation your rotation was washealthy and it was good um one
of your questions is is whowould you like to call out and
one of my answers is whoeverorganized that rotation that you
guys had and what I mean by thatis you guys did day missions day
QRF night missions night qrf andthen guard and those were one
(22:48):
week intervals so it and then ifif the city roared up or
anything or something happenedlike you know everyone was going
out and they were willing to butwhen it when it was the normal
operations it was it was livableum you if you got your sleep you
got your your downtime you gotwhatever so it was a really good
rotation uh uh whoever did thatyou know good good job to you
(23:08):
guys um I'm gonna be honest Idon't know who came up with that
I'm gonna bet it was uh acombined effort but I I have no
idea who came up with that I'mhoping I'll find out in the
future that's a good questionyeah you know I noted that
because when we first got in Idon't want to do a lot of the
back and forth of of three fiveto this but when when we got
(23:28):
into Ed D Wania the first timethe rotation that we set up it
it it was it was it was like afour hour foot patrol two hours
back four hours guard two hoursdown four hour foot patrol and
you we were doing that over andover and over again and we were
just like walking zombies that'sso I yeah I remember I remember
(23:49):
seeing your guys' schedule and Iwas like okay this isn't bad you
know um so yeah good job on thatum what was I saying before then
why did I say all that uh didyou think you were just talking
about how coming in on uhsavages you know right around
there that that you were hittingprobably right at the beginning
(24:11):
of a cycle so yep yep yep so soyou guys uh Rainmaker went out
on a mission and I was notallowed to go out with them I uh
acclimated or climatized I don'tremember which one they said but
they said and I I needed a fewdays there before I start going
out in your guys' rotation and Idon't know what it was I I I
believe that you guys ran Ithink he called them IED sweeps
(24:33):
uh at times you know um I meanthink think of the wording
behind that you guys weredriving around for IEDs um um so
I they went out and and andeveryone knows the story you
guys got hit and it was it was along day and you guys came back
we didn't know what was going onand um of course emotionals were
high rightfully so and andeverything and and um that's
(24:55):
when Savage was killed and infact I I think you guys also um
you didn't lose but another adriver of vehicle too was
injured I believe someone tookon their leg and and so that
gets me that's where I was goingwith it is I I was saying my
rake hill but also mevolunteered so later on that
evening they held a formationthey said all right you know
(25:15):
they're given a debrief andeverything and they said you
know uh we're we're still herewe're still operating someone
needs to drive vehicle too andand that's where I raised my
hand.
So I raised my hand to be thedriver of vehicle too.
I told them I said I I wouldn'tmind doing that I drove a lot
the first time the only thing Iwould ask for is can I have a
mono instead of a bino and thereason I wanted the mono uh for
(25:37):
people that listening is um youwe don't drive with headlights
but all the locals do.
So instead of gettingwhitewashed in both eyes when a
car drives by at night and andyou're blinded I would close the
one eye and and open up the onethat wasn't covered and then do
the reverse when they were done.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
It's the old pirate trick man.
SPEAKER_03 (25:55):
Yeah the old pirate.
So Sergeant G says I'll get I'llget you a set of monos and he
got me a set of monos and then Iwas I was the driver for vehicle
too which was uh his vehicle Iwas driving him around and
that's uh where we really kickedoff our relationship so that's
cool man and that's actually uhthat's I mean I don't know how I
(26:16):
don't know why you did itnecessarily but that's smart I
mean it gives you a chance tokind of you know exactly what to
do you're just driving I'm justdriving yeah and then when you
get somewhere then you can dosomething else but like 99% of
the time you know you're gonnabe behind the wheel and you got
to take care of the truck sothat's that's a good starting
place.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Well yeah and go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
Oh I was just gonna say that when we've had you know
I don't know if we've said itthis directly before but um over
over in Ramadi during that timeyou needed to have really really
good drive thank god we did butthat was not a time to have the
biggest idiots behind the wheelum you needed you needed
(26:57):
somebody that could actuallythink for themselves and so yeah
I I'm Sarge G would complimentthe driving he goes I love it
I'm aggressive you know he goesyou'd push people out of the way
you would yo you'd speed upyou'd slow down you'd swerve
you'd do all this other stuffyou know and so so that was my
job.
I mean what what tense momentsdriving through the marketplace
(27:18):
right where the foot traffic isheavy as hell and you can't just
buzz right through but I I knewthat my Humvee was a lot heavier
than you know people walking inthe street.
So I I wasn't hitting them I wasright right so um so yeah so
that was that was mevolunteering and I and I think I
said that because um I wasn't inthe back I drove uh I started
(27:39):
out with a high back um so sothe people in the back were
dismounting do their thing if itwas uh I always called them
county fairs were they was thatone of the things that we we saw
that Operation County Fair wasright before you got there uh
but they but there was threeoperations that were called bug
hunts and those were the biggerones yeah um county fair is also
(28:02):
another one we had a couple ofthose the county fairs usually
were smaller and the bug huntswere bigger like district size I
don't know who decided thesenaming conventions and then
Operation Traveler was the otherbig one that was in like late
August or in early August andthat was uh most of the section
south of Route Michigan where uhZarkawi's family supposedly was
(28:28):
okay so anytime one of one ofthe operations happened like I
wasn't because when if it was amission or a QRF like he they
they turned when they dismountedit was a form of a line company
right they're on foot but I wasnot I I was I was with my gunner
we we had one of the 50 cales soI always stayed with the vehicle
(28:48):
so I say maybe my my rankvolunteering and you know just
staying with a vehicle where Iwasn't I wasn't mixed with the
the line company um practiceswhen they dismounted you know uh
I think I think that helpedwhere I was I was gaining
respect with the guys a littlebit so yeah nice yeah very good
(29:09):
the so um and I don't want to goI I don't want to jump the story
just too far but just for myframing purposes how long did
you stay in country with us?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Did you leave early or did you come back?
SPEAKER_03 (29:21):
I I I don't have I don't remember no no no I I I
flew out on one of the Helos Ithink it was like four or five
weeks before you guys left Ibelieve we left we left the end
of August and you guys left theend of September.
Yeah okay that sounds right okayyeah I don't mean to jump the
story I'm just trying to and inthe in the in the reason for
(29:41):
that is my my um my end wasOctober 1st so that was the end
of my contract.
Oh yeah well that was quick thenfor you too yeah yeah yeah I
mean they they were getting onemore deployment you know and and
if I if I wasn't fapped out foryou know uh button heads with
that staff sergeant you know I II would have been there but yeah
(30:03):
they they gave me they gave meabout four weeks to get checked
out okay yeah all right so goingback to uh so let's see here
going back to May um we had acouple a couple uh operations
coming into there um you saidthat you were sticking mostly
with the truck because you werethe driver do you do any of the
(30:23):
any of the missions inparticular stick out to you?
Uh um not the names uh if youtell me events that happened in
there that's that that rekindlesa lot of my stories um uh I
could tell you I could tell youstories about you know the BB
IDs that that went off behind usI yeah I mean why why don't why
(30:44):
don't we just why don't we juststart with some of the stories
right so so the so I I starteddriving so let's just say it was
May 13th um may 13th or 14th ifI could start driving after a
few days and after everythinghappened and and I I was driving
around and just being aggressiveand probably naive of the
(31:04):
situation you know all all I wasused to was was firefights from
organized groups right and theyyou know that was the first time
and and this this was nowdifferent warfare and and and
what a change then not theterrain um just the tension and
and our tactics and theirtactics um you know that the
first time over you know uh itit would be six people um as
(31:29):
stupid as it sound probably noradio communication going out in
town drinking chai with thelocals just to show presence um
your your guys' time and what weexpense uh experienced is when
we wanted to run to the armybase or something to go get
lunch because they had betterfood it was mandatory five
vehicles with full crews youknow uh every you know in in
(31:52):
calm and everything and then andthen like I said the first time
you know uh gunfires we knew whowere fighting we we saw them and
then you know kind of I justthink guerrilla warfare um and
your guys very on Mount Warfareand and really the biggest fear
then was IEDs and I we didn'tknow what IEDs were the first
time um and then neither did weyeah yeah yeah and then and then
(32:16):
and then um yeah IEDs that thatthen go to VB IEDs and um you
know one of you one of yourguys's question is what what do
you wish people knew um I guessabout Ramadi or Iraq or whatever
and and I wrote down I go wellthey're not stupid they're not
dumb they're very they are veryvery very creative you know when
(32:40):
when we would when we would umgo out in one of our bug hunts
and we would gather up all theweapons we found and all the
makeshift stuff you know there'sa lot of creativity in some of
the weapons and how theylaunched them especially like
the mortar systems you knowmorning and night uh they knew
we had counter battery radar youknow covered by the by the army
and stuff but they found out tokeep the low the shells you know
(33:02):
low enough or or they werelaunching them where they were
you know plenty of yards awaywhere if we turn fire went they
weren't being hit um I Iremember you know um tail signs
were new construction like ifyou saw a piece of we'll say
curb if it looked brand new portor whatever like stay away from
it you know why why is thatpoured what's in it well there
(33:23):
there's there's an artilleryround or a mortar round with the
device and the concrete is nowthe shrapnel around it you know
yeah um you know if if if youroll we talked about my shigan
downtown and and all of a seasudden you know you get the feel
the locals really if you see thefoot traffic start to clear an
area you better stay out of thatarea too um it's it's because
(33:44):
they knew what was going on Imean just just the creativity
that they had um by all meansthey weren't dumb at all.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Do you remember your first firefight uh on this round
uh I know you fought in you knowduring the first push I'm sure
you got in a couple but do youremember your first one with the
2-4?
SPEAKER_03 (34:02):
Yeah yeah I do I uh I don't remember the date or
anything like that.
Uh I remember I mean the townthe town reared up a handful of
times I I think even in the timethat I was there.
And then one of our first littlescrimmages I I think it was when
we were on the QRF rotationduring the day and we we
launched out with one of theline companies and it was a
(34:23):
firefight they dismounted so Idon't I don't know where the
guys in the vehicle were oranything.
I I just know that I had I had Idon't remember it was it was it
wasn't it was a like a two-wayradio a push button right here
single single mic and I wasconnected to Sergeant G with
that and he would tell me heyI'm uh you know I'm down down
the road down the road and and Iremember just being aggressive
(34:45):
like I have the 50 cal this iswhat they want you know so I I
would push my my gunner up andyou watch down that way I'll and
then I'll get out of the vehicleI'll watch this way wherever
your back is that's where I'm atyou know stuff like that and I
rem I remember that was thefirst firefight uh I remember I
was very intrigued I was takinga lot of pictures I was very
intrigued by like bloody shoesfor some reason so if if you
(35:07):
ever want photos yeah the artinstallation I thought it was so
wild that like hey this personactually ran out of their shoe
you know and I was like I getwhy they didn't there's a big
old pile of blood and stuff likethat right there.
So I I got a lot of those maybethat was me trying to be an
artist or something like that.
I don't I don't know um but thatthat was my first firefight I
(35:29):
remember like crashing throughsomething because I was like I
you know Sergeant G wanted the50 cal watching down this road
and I was like okay um I'mtrying to think who my gunner
was um I called him Furby Icalled him Furby because he was
super hairy all over the placeso I was like you're yeah
defluentes yes that's thehairiest well probably the
(35:50):
second hairiest man I've everseen but he's he's he's up there
man that guy yeah likes thatsquad he was super cool I I
remember he said that I thinkhe's from Washington and his
family had a Christmas tree farmand they sold Christmas trees
yeah weird that's a good memoryman yeah yeah now that you said
it I remember that but Iwouldn't have remembered that
(36:10):
yeah yeah he he was a cool guy Ithink it was was he a Lance
corporal at that time he was Ithink he was super nice guy wore
glasses and everything a funnystory about him I think it was
his birthday or something likethat and the platoon um helped
him stay still on the floor byall of us holding him down and
and we shaved in 81s in the backhair so yeah that's perfect so
(36:35):
he he walked around and itlooked like he had a football
jersey number 81 on but that wasthat was his body you know it
was cool yeah so I he he was onthe 50 cal and and he wanted him
down the road I was watching theback and I I remember that was
like the first mount fire fightuh in Ramadi that I remember and
I I don't remember why we wereout there or anything I I think
(36:58):
it was to support a line companyor something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
That's a very common story.
SPEAKER_03 (37:02):
I mean that's that's a how a lot of those fights were
there were really they're nonamed they're they're no name
firefights yeah I I I tellpeople I go it's it's so weird
like we would stage we wouldstage QRF if you were QRF all
the vehicles in case you had tolike jump on in it like you know
(37:23):
jump on it like a horse and rideoff in town the all the vehicles
were staged ready to go and andyou would you would go on in
town and um I I I tell peopleit's just it's just very weird
you know having having thatmindset of we're going out in
town and you I I crossed myfingers was like please find a
fire fight please find afirefight instead of an IED
(37:46):
because it was only one of theother you're gonna find a fire
fight or you're gonna find anIED uh and I was like please let
it be the fire firefight sideyou know oh there's nothing you
can do for the IED you just getfucked up yeah yeah uh first
first IED I mean shortly daysafter I started driving I I
think it I think it was novaactually didn't I know nova had
(38:06):
the the hospital but was there aschool or were there schools on
Nova there was okay so I therewere there was one basically at
each end west and east so so wewere driving then it was nova
and it was a dirt road at thetime right and I was nova a dirt
road some parts of it were notall of it okay and and I
(38:27):
remember we're going down thatroute and someone says hey you
know Nova should be safe kind oflike the unwritten rule is
hopefully they don't mess withthe road that has the hospitals
and schools or something likethat.
That's probably I I know it'scompletely inaccurate but at the
time okay I was like okay youknow that makes sense but I
remember the first IED was wasright in front of our vehicle
and it it it was buried deep soit blew straight up in the air
(38:51):
and I was like oh shit that wasmeant for us you know and I was
like well then they're bad attheir timing you know but I
remember that being the firstfirst IED I saw was right
outside the school and it wasburied really deep on the side
of the road.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
So yeah it was nice it was nice when you got to see
it because I always figured theone that was going to kill me I
wasn't going to see it anyway.
Yeah the one time the one time Igot hit I didn't see shit I just
remember getting hit and feelinglike I got punched and then I
that was it and I didn't seeanything.
Yep where where at in town wasthat uh that was on route
(39:26):
Michigan we were on our way tocombat outpost it was just as
the main buildings of the citystarted to break up and you
started to head out into thefarm country to get to combat
outpost right at the east end ofthe city on route Michigan okay
I remember I remember I thinkwe're on an LPOP at the
(39:47):
graveyard or something like thatand just overseeing it we spent
hours out there probably daysactually um and I want to say we
rushed out and we were drivingdown Michigan because I think
the I think that was the day thepolice station got hit or
something bombed or somethinglike that.
SPEAKER_03 (40:06):
Okay.
And we we were rushing out thereand as you're heading back to
Hurricane Point um there's a sthere's like a a big split like
it ws off on Michigan.
Yep yep and and right therewhere it ws off uh I remember we
passed and then uh right behindus in between vehicle two and
(40:27):
three that That was the BB IDright behind our truck.
I listened to one of thepodcasts of the people that were
in the back of the truck.
I was like, yeah, I was driving,you know?
And that thing, I mean, youcouldn't see behind it.
All I was worried about wasvehicle number three because at
that time then, uh, RoyceLarson, who I took, was the
driver for vehicle number three.
So I was like, oh shit, was thatwas that Royce, you know?
(40:50):
And then all of a sudden you seehim just go through the um
through the dust cloud.
Um, but yeah, right in thatlocation was the BB ID.
And I remember listening to thatindividual's podcast.
He goes, for some dumb reason,we dismounted right then.
Like we stopped our convoy,herringbone, and we dismounted.
I was like, Yeah, that waspretty stupid.
Why did we do that?
But I remember we dismounted andand the blast went in between
(41:12):
our vehicles, but going theopposite direction was like an I
Iraqi taxi driver, and he tookthe hit.
Um I I remember seeing him, andthen um, like we we were just
like, all right, well, we wegotta go.
Police station just gotattacked, and so we we went back
over there.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
So if my memory serves me, I think part of our
philosophy on that was that wewanted to try to capture the
trigger man.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
Yeah, the human extraction teams uh and some of
the Intel people that that cameover and talked over at
Hurricane Point, they alwayssaid that if they they felt
pretty confident that if theycould get any of the triggermen,
they could at least figure outwhere they're getting the
munitions.
Because there was not a hugeartillery shell munitions depot
(42:00):
anywhere near Ramadi.
It was the the closest one weknew of was over by TQ Air Base,
which was out past Hobbiny and awhole bunch of other shit that's
on a map that nobody's gonnaunderstand anyway.
But far away, that's the shortversion.
And they that somebody wasbringing it in and and cacheting
it somewhere.
And so if they could figure outwhere those supply points were,
(42:21):
we could break up the supply ofIEDs and at least make the
lethality less.
You know, if they were justputting like a little bit of
comp B in a soda can orsomething, like mostly that's
not gonna kill somebody, but the155 shells were really tearing
tearing trucks apart and tearingpeople up.
SPEAKER_03 (42:36):
Yeah, it was uh it was different.
That's that's what I feared themost.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Oh, yeah, by far.
By far.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
And and and like we started out, I I'm pretty sure
you guys did what you guyscalled IED sweeps.
Oh, we did.
Yeah, yeah.
So just I mean, just just thinkjust think about that.
The thing, the thing that wewere scared the most, we were
just like, we're driving aroundand seeing if there's an IED.
Well, how do you how do you knowthere's an IED if it goes off?
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Yeah, mostly.
If you were lucky, you could seesomething like you said,
disturbed pavement or disturbeddirt, and then call call out EOD
and take a look at it, butmostly that wasn't the case.
The line company guys were doingthe same thing, they had a uh an
area to patrol and they would doIED routes on foot.
Wow, and same thing, they lostdudes the same way, they would
(43:25):
walk right over the top of thembecause sometimes you saw it,
but uh sometimes you didn't seeshit.
SPEAKER_03 (43:31):
Yeah, that's that's wild.
SPEAKER_02 (43:32):
And I know a couple guys, and I be and I have a
story myself of it where youknow we would be on those
patrols and it would be buried,and for whatever reason they
chose not to pop at that time,but then you know, a few hours
later where you were standing,or you know, like that exact
area, even though that had tohave been buried previously
because there was enoughactivity that they wouldn't have
had time to do it.
(43:54):
But by the grace of God, forwhatever reason, they've decided
not to pop it well.
And I have one specificallywhere I was literally standing
right on top of it, and then ithit it hit uh the Fox Company
patrol.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Well, they they were saying uhthey they said the curse of
vehicle two, vehicle one drivesby, I guess they're attacking
vehicle number two, you know.
And I was like, Well, hold up,I'm driving vehicle number two,
I don't like this story, youknow.
So yeah, interesting.
Real interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Yeah, everybody had their their superstitions.
Ours was uh vehicle five and sixalways got when we had six, we
didn't have six most of thetime, but vehicle five always
got hit, always.
SPEAKER_03 (44:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I had my rituals androutines.
I I guess let me let me tell youthat superstitions, rituals and
routine.
I mean, I mean, I I always woreI always wore the the a cross
that I wore the first time andeverything and everything like
that.
Uh the platoon used to make funof me because so in in the huts
or hoochas or or whatever youguys call them, so it was like
(44:57):
it was like a bunk bed setup,and and a lot of the younger
Marines, you know, bottom bunk,top bunk, and stuff like that.
And then mine was I just had thebottom bunk and my top bunk was
storage.
And and I remember alwaysthinking, because we we you
know, we you got mortar where wegot mortared all the time, you
know, usually usually in themortar pool.
And I would look up at the theceiling, and I'd be like, Yeah,
(45:18):
round would go through that.
So I would always like lay mygear out with my flat jacket,
like where I lay down, you know,on my bed just in case and stuff
like that.
My helmet would be where my headis and everything.
Um, but I I had a um a CDplayer, and and every mission
they started out making fun ofme.
Every mission I would I wouldblast Eye of the Tiger through
(45:39):
my oversized headphones, youknow, and I would listen to Eye
of the Tiger.
But then, but then they startedto buy into it.
I remember like Sergeant G, likewhen we would stage up and and
we had another ritual in thevehicle, he'd be like, Did you
listen to Eye of the Tiger?
I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Idid.
We're good, we're good, youknow, stuff like that.
So they they started out withthat, you know, and and right
(46:00):
beside me was uh Hodges and allthat.
And uh I think he's he wouldstart out making fun of me, but
at the end he'd be like, putthat music up, you know, let's
listen to it.
I was like, okay, that'sawesome.
One of our routines.
SPEAKER_02 (46:13):
Um you're gonna try and take any advantage you can.
Yeah, right?
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
If you like what you've heard,this is a multi part episode.
Make sure you listen to the restof the story.
All right, Brian.
Well, go ahead and uh introduceyourself, tell everybody who you
were and uh what rank you werein 2004 and what platoon you
were with.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
Yep, most definitely.
Good afternoon.
Uh name is Brian Fox.
Uh I came to you guys from 3rdBattalion, 5th Marines in 2004,
and I was a corporal at thetime.
Rainmaker platoon, is thatright?
I did, I did with uh SergeantGarcia.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Well, you were before we push record, you
already said that you're uh kindof thinking about the way you
got over there, so we can startfrom there, the formation and uh
learning about going on anotherdeployment.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
Yeah, actually uh I talked to Sergeant Garcia
probably a few weeks back,shortly after he did his podcast
and told me about your guys'program here.
And uh he asked the question, hegoes, Can you tell me or recap
how we met?
And I said, sure.
So I guess I guess I'll startfrom that.
Um, well, as you guys know, youtalked to other people in 3.5.
We were your guys' combatreplacements, and I think it was
(01:35):
the beginning of May.
So building up how we how we gotto that point.
So got home from the initialpush in 2003 with uh 3.5, got
home around September, spentsome time uh back in the States,
and actually, I think it was thefirst time in San Mateo's
history that all fourbattalions, including yourself,
was was there.
(01:56):
So we we, my company, we weren'table to live in any barracks in
San Mateo.
We actually got one of theKwanzett huts in Horno for
overflow because there wasn'tany more rooms available when we
first got.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, because that that soundsamazing.
Yeah, all three battalions thatwere over, and then you guys,
you guys were in Okinawa, andyou got extended out there
(02:16):
actually for a long time, didn'tyou?
Yeah, six months.
Yeah, and so we were all we wereall there at the same time in
the base, and of course, it'snot set up for that one
battalion that's supposed to bein Okinawa at the time, you
know, and they just rotate thehousing.
So now that all four of us arethere, we're in quantity huts.
I tell you that, I tell you thatbecause uh it builds up to we
were having a battalionformation, so all the Horno
(02:39):
Marines that were living there,we had to drive over to San
Mateo.
And of course, you get thereearly, right?
You don't want to be latestandby to standby.
So we get there tremendouslyearly, and our platoons holding
a little formation.
And we had one of our staffsergeants, no names, but we we
didn't like his leadershipstyle, and he gathered us all up
at uh the basketball courtswhere we're just meeting a
(03:01):
little uh horseshoe there, andhe's just laying into one of our
shipbird marines, like you everyplatoon has one, right?
You know, and uh and he's justlaying into them about personal
things, your finances.
I'm getting calls from thiscredit card company and this and
this and this.
And it wasn't a real formation,it was a horseshoe.
But in there, I raised my hand,I was like, Staff Sergeant,
(03:22):
maybe this is something you guyscould take offline.
You know, the platoon doesn'tneed to know about this stuff.
For sure.
And he yeah, and and and hegoes, Corporal Fox, I think you
just need to be quiet right now.
And I go, Oh, with all respect,you know, staff sergeant.
I think I think you're you'rethe one that needs to be quiet
right now.
That triggered now isspotlighted, right?
So so we h we hold ourformation, we go back to Horno,
(03:45):
and that staff sergeant walksinto our Kwanzaa and he's like,
Give me Corporal Fox right now.
And he pulls me over to the sideand he goes, Do you have a
problem with me?
I go, I don't have a problemwith you, I just have a problem
with what you did.
You know, that was all personalstuff in front of a formation,
regardless of who it was.
And he goes, he goes, Um, you'regonna be problems.
He goes, if I can get you facedout, would you go?
(04:06):
And I was like, Where's thedotted line?
I'll sign it right now.
So he got me actually fappedout.
I was like one of two Marines inin 3.5 that got out and I was
fapped out, and I got assignedto military police.
And it it was a job.
I I stood the gates, that's allI was.
I wasn't certified to drive thepatrol cars and do anything like
(04:29):
that.
You know, fapped out is youknow, you like less than a year
on your contract, you just get afiller filler job.
I could have hopefully I couldhave got you know passing out
towels at the gym or somethinglike that, but no, they got
military police, and andactually, like the schedule
there wasn't that bad.
If if they stuck to theirschedule and didn't play fuck
fuck games like they do, youwould work like 16 days a month.
(04:51):
It was a schedule like work two,two days off, work three, three
days off, something like that.
Um well, I tell you that becauseall of a sudden I get a phone
call from um one of my friends.
He's he's his name's Travis Day,or Colonel.
Yeah, you guys know.
Yeah, yeah.
He was in my platoon.
Yeah, yeah.
So so I get a I get a phone callfrom Colonel, and and he goes,
(05:13):
dude, they're gonna get anotherround out of us.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, uh, I guess we'reholding a formation tomorrow and
they're gonna give us threeoptions to pick from.
And I was like, What what timetomorrow?
And yeah, I don't remember thetime, but he told me, but it was
on one of my days off.
And I go, you know what?
I'm I'm gonna go and I'm gonnago listen.
So it's it's my day off.
I think I showed up in civviesand I don't remember where it
(05:35):
was.
I heard someone said it was inthe gym or something like that.
And and they pretty much uhgather up all the the short
timers, people with less than ayear, uh, and they go, it boils
down to three options for youguys.
Uh either you're gonna re-enlistand stay with 3-5, you're gonna
extend your contract and do onemore deployment with 3-5, or
you're gonna be a combatreplacement for 2-4.
(05:56):
It's your choice.
We need your choice pretty muchnow.
And uh so everyone's just like,oh shit, okay.
You know, when you when you getthat thrown at you, what are you
gonna do?
And uh I remember my old uhplatoon lieutenant was there, uh
Lieutenant uh uh Dunkelberger, Ibelieve it was.
And uh and I go, sir, I said, Isaid, I don't I don't know how
(06:17):
this works or anything, but canI get out of my FAP?
He goes, I'm not sure either.
I was like, well, how do I geton that list?
He goes, I don't know.
You're gonna have to talk toyour uh military police chain of
command.
And I was like, okay, I thinkI'm gonna try doing that.
And and I go back and I talk tothe desk sergeant on that day
off, and I go, hey, I was like,how does this work with FAPS?
Can I like volunteer to end myFAP and go out?
(06:40):
He goes, I don't I don't thinkit works like that.
He goes, Tomorrow you're gonnahave to talk to your first
sergeant.
And I was like, okay.
So the next day comes and I I gotalk to the um first sergeant.
No, no, no, no, I take thatback.
The staff sergeant says, I don'tthink you can.
Uh, if anything, you're gonnahave to talk to first sergeant.
Well, I had questions, okay?
And me being naive, it workedout.
I actually called 3-5's XO.
(07:03):
Okay, so I called the office, Igot somehow connected to him,
and I sir, how does this work?
I'm Brian Fox, 3-5, I'm FAP Dow,81's platoon, all this other
stuff.
You know, they the the rest ofthe guys were given a choice.
I want to figure out how to workout this fact to get out of
this.
You know, he goes, Okay.
He goes, here's my office line.
Give it to your command and havethem call me.
(07:23):
I'm sure we can work somethingout.
So that's where the next day Iwent to the the first sergeant
and I and I knocked on his doorfor the military police and I
said, Hey, first sergeant, youknow, Corporal Fox, you know,
fapped out from 3.5.
Uh, my guys are in a situation,they're going back.
I want to figure out how to goback with them.
He goes, You have no right totalk to that chain command, you
no longer report to him, you'remilitary police, you know, all
(07:44):
this other stuff.
And I said, Okay.
I said, but I do have a phonenumber of my old SO, and I'm
hoping you can give him a call.
And he's like, Okay.
And so I paused and I'm waitingfor him to grab a pen, like he's
gonna write down that number.
He's like, Corporal, what's thedamn number?
And I'm like, Oh, 760, blah,blah, blah, blah.
And he didn't write anythingdown.
He goes, Good job.
You gave me the phone number,get out of my office.
(08:06):
And I was like, Well, that sonof a bitch, he's not gonna call
him.
They didn't even write down hisnumber, you know, obviously.
And so, so what do I do?
Well, I have the number, so Icall it back and I talk to my
exo again, my old XO.
And I was like, Hey, sir, talkedto you yesterday, you know,
faced out.
And he didn't take down yournumber.
I don't think he's gonna giveyou a call.
He's like, Hold up.
You hear some type, and he goes,Is it first serious?
(08:28):
I don't remember his name.
And I go, Oh, yes, sir, it is.
He goes, Tell him to check hisdamn email.
And I was like, Oh, not doingthat, not doing that, you know.
So, so the next morning was mywork day, and and in there, when
you start a day, it's a 12-hourshift.
So I report there like at 0400,and we get our morning briefing,
and then we go out to all ourgates, and you get a sign what
(08:50):
gate you're signing at.
Okay, you know, Bobby and Jim,you're going to you know, Del
Mar gate, you're doing this, andmy name wasn't called.
And they go, Corporal Fox,report back to your chain of
command, you're no longermilitary police.
And so I was like, Oh, hellyeah.
So I got out of the fat, youknow.
So, so now I'm like in thispurgatory mode.
(09:11):
I'm I'm like really assigned tomilitary police.
I'm somehow figuring out how tofinagle my way back to a
deployment with my with mybrothers, you know.
The only reason I want to go isbecause they're going.
And I heard some of you guys'podcasts, like uh one of you
guys were uh uh embassy, uh, youhad orders to it, but your
feeling is if you went to thatand something happened, you you
(09:32):
know, that would probably hauntyou for the rest of your life.
Well, that was my feeling withwith my guys that I was very
close with, yeah, yeah, uh,since since SOI.
Um, so so now I'm somehow onthis roster back with 3-5, and
and so I'm on the list to be acombat replacement because
that's what I picked, and thenwe had an option to be first
(09:55):
wave or second wave.
First wave is leaving like in aweek or two, and second wave is
a to be determined date.
Well, if you're gonna do it,let's rip off the band-aid.
So the group that you guys knowof were the ones that all raised
our hand to be part of firstwave.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Oh, what what happened is second wave, who was
who was gonna do it, theyactually never went, you know.
Oh, so so they they never gotcalled up.
So so I got out of MPs, I didthis first wave, you know,
second wave didn't deploy.
And then we're um they actuallydid like a week training or
(10:29):
something like that.
We were all pissed off becausewe were like, if we're if we're
going back over, why are wespending a week camping at this
mountain town doing doing someroom cleaning clearing training?
Or you know, if we're leaving,we would rather be with our
families.
Like we it was it was a campout.
We were we were staying thenight over there and all this
other stuff.
So that training went by, andnow it's time to fly out.
(10:51):
And and like some told you, weflew a commercial flight and and
got into uh Kuwait, and um,yeah, and we were off to go see
you guys.
Actually, actually, it's alittle more to that.
They we flew in, I don'tremember where we trucked to,
and we we set up at one of ourbase, and there there was a
handful of people from 3.5.
We had we have the group thatyou know, which is all 81's
(11:15):
platoon, I think it was therewas a total of nine of us.
There was a small group of catplatoon, and there was pockets
of group of all our linecompanies, Lima, Kilo, and
India, and everything from 3-5.
So, for the sake ofconversation, let's just say
there was nine to ten of us ineach one of those clusters,
right?
And and we staged at this place,and we're getting who what
(11:37):
battalion we're going to.
We did not at that time, I toldyou it'd be a combat replacement
for 2-4.
It wasn't actually said thatway, it was just a combat
replacement.
We didn't know who it was for atthe time.
Okay, and we didn't we didn'tknow who it was until we we we
all got staged up, all thoseclusters of 10.
Um, and I don't remember wherewe were at.
Uh we we landed in Kuwait, and Ithink we trucked to this place.
(12:00):
Yeah, and um and all of asudden, like all of Cat Platoon,
they got sent somewhere else,and then everyone else that was
there pretty much got sent to2-4.
Okay, so Cat Platoon wentsomewhere else, 81s, and then I
think it was two or threepockets of line company guys uh
went went to 2-4.
(12:21):
And and we got there.
Um, I know for a fact that fromwhere we were at, either we flew
somewhere closer and theytrucked us on seven tons.
And I remember that because umwe were all like standing up on
the seven tons and looking, andthen when we got to you guys,
you're like, You guys truckedin?
And we're like, Yeah, we'retrucked in.
(12:42):
But I'm I'm sure one of you guysmet us as mission, day missions,
or QRF and escorted SN orsomething like that.
So we get to you guys, and and Iand I don't know where they
clustered us all up.
I want to say it was so we'reall in Hurricane Point at that
time.
And let's just say we're in oneof the, I think there was a
bigger room in one of thepalaces, or or maybe it was a
(13:02):
large tent or something likethat.
And it was it was, I want to sayit was first sergeant um Mac
that was hosting and organizingeverything.
Off of my memory, my story,that's what it is.
I remember that we're all we'reall like sitting in our groups.
Because when you're in your inyour close with your unit, so
(13:24):
that's who you hang out with.
You you're you're all 35, butyou're different things.
So we're all clustered, all ofweapons company, all of the Lima
company guys, and First CERNsays, Hey, you guys are all
gonna go in your little clustersto different areas.
Um weapons company needs needslike 10 people.
Um Snake Pit, was it?
(13:46):
Yeah, Fox Company.
Yeah, uh, and there was therewas another combat outpost with
golf and echo.
Okay, so they were dividing itup.
And from what I remember, thatuh first star Matt, very, very
cool guys, let us make a lot ofour own decisions.
Um and he goes, So I will leaveit up to you guys on where
you're going.
(14:07):
And I remember when he came backin to figure out where we're
going, he he started with one ofour line companies, and he goes,
So where where is this groupgoing?
And someone says, Hey, we wewant to be the people in your
guys' weapons company.
And then he goes, All right,where are you?
Where's this line company going?
And he said, uh, whatevercompany was in Snake Bit.
(14:28):
And then he got to us and we'relike, Well shit, that means
we're a line company.
We aren't a line company.
So our group was like, Well,hold up, there's a problem.
We want to be weapons companybecause we are a weapons
company, and we understand thatyou guys aren't using your
cruise serves, but if you do, weknow how to operate the mortars
and everything.
And and the fact that the firsttime uh after we got to Baghdad,
(14:49):
we all settled in a city and wewere we were QRF for that city,
so we drove all the Humvees andall the cruise serve weapons and
everything else.
So that's what we do, and that'swhat you guys are doing here.
We think it should be us.
And he and he was like, Yeah,that makes sense.
You're going to weapons company,you're going to the line
company.
So so thank thank goodness forthat, actually.
Um, just because that's what weknew, that's what we were
(15:11):
comfortable with.
Yeah.
Um, so we we were now uh weaponscompanies, and and we we walked
up to your guys' uh uh huts.
I think there was six of them.
The first one was the first onestaring at all of them was the
translator hut, I believe.
Yeah, the closest one to thegate.
(15:33):
Yeah, and then rainmaker, youguys sled, and then the then the
others.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Map one headquarters, map two, map
three.
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
Yeah.
So so we're all standing inbetween Rainmaker and
Sledgehammer, and it was likeall the sections leader came
out, you know, and it was justlike it was like picking your
Pokemon cards, you know.
So I I remember like um SergeantG was like, Well, Rainmaker
needs one, and he goes, Oh,we'll take you, and he pointed
(16:00):
to me.
So when I told Sergeant G thestory, I told him all that, and
I go, So how did we meet for thefirst time?
You just pointed at me and said,Hey, you're with us, and I said,
Okay, you know, and then uhSledgehammer, you guys got Adams
Martinez Clark, and the firsttime you got Larson, and then um
Hampton, Colonel, um Martinezand uh John Mark Lopez, uh, they
(16:26):
all went to the maps.
Um so yeah, so that's that's howI first met you guys.
Um and it it was it was anexperience.
And I tell you, it was anexperience because I mean I was
I was picked all by myself.
And and I was all this is thisis if you if you edit that, this
is where you put in the sadsoppy music and everything
because this I was I was I was Iwas so alone.
(16:51):
I I really was so so everyonehad someone, and I think it was
just a couple of days, you know,that I was with with them all by
myself, but I mean not knowinganyone.
I mean, I remember the firsttime after we got settled in D
Winia and everything, we got wegot some NBC guys dropped to us,
and I remember it was a verycold welcoming.
(17:13):
Like they aren't they aren'twith you, they aren't bonded
with you, you don't know howthey operate or anything like
that.
They may have rank, you don't,you know, rank is everything in
in the infantry.
You don't respect thatindividual or that rank because
they're new at that time.
And I never thought I would bein that situation, but there I
was, you know.
I was I was that new guy bymyself with a platoon that I
(17:36):
mean you get you guys wentthrough shit.
Um, and you guys, you guys weredefinitely bonded um through
battle, and um, and here I am,just this new guy by myself.
And man, I just felt so isolatedand so out of place and
everything.
And and I was like, man, this iswhat I volunteered for, you
know, not to be with anyonebecause the whole volunteer
thing was to be with with one ofmy guys from 3-5.
(17:56):
Sure.
Um, so it was it was actuallyfor Sar Mac.
Uh did a really good job.
Kudos to him.
Um, he he he checked in on us.
You you you could tell who wewere to, and the reason you
could tell who the 3-5 Marinesis because we didn't have the
Dead Dizzy's, so we got thosejust before we deployed, but we
didn't get the uh eight-pointcovers, we got Dedget Boonies,
(18:18):
so we were the only ones thathad boonies with you guys.
Yeah, um, so so when you saw aboonie guy, that was a combat
replacement.
But he he checked in with us,and I think he started with me,
and he goes, Hey Corporal Fox,how's the platoon you know,
treating you?
And platoon was actually veryrespectful, um, uh as welcoming
as they could be, you know.
(18:39):
Um, I was right beside uh Hodgesand Herschel.
Everyone everyone has a story ofhim.
So I slept right beside them.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Um everyone has a uh every everyone has a Joe
Herscher story, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:54):
I saw that man naked more than I see myself naked,
but um and it's a humblingexperience, isn't it?
Yeah, and then Hodges Hodges waslike senior by age, I believe.
I believe it was much older thaneveryone.
He's like, God dang, you know,put that weapon away.
We don't need to see that thing,you know.
So that that was like mymornings I woke up to.
(19:16):
Um, but but he uh first sergeantchecked in and he goes, Fox, how
you doing?
I said, Doing well, how's theplatoon treating you?
Oh, doing well, getting to knoweveryone.
And he goes, Well, who's yourbuddy or something like that?
I go, I don't have one, youknow, they only needed one
person.
He's like, No, it ain't gonnawork like that.
You need you need one person.
And so I remember gathering upum Adam, Martinez, Clark, and
(19:37):
Larson, and I go, Hey guys, Isaid, It sucks not having
someone.
I was told to pick from someone,you guys have four, everyone's
either else two or three.
I said, uh, who want who wantsto come over with me?
And and Martinez and Adams werelike, Wow, you know, we're we're
we're best friends.
They're you know, they they'relike two kittens always
wrestling.
And uh and and Clark, Clark isjust like, hey, they're they're
(20:00):
they're giving me a leadershipposition or something like that.
And I was like, Larson, come on,come on over here, you know.
Um, so I took him and and thatwas good.
In fact, my 12 year old that youmay hear, his name is Royce, and
the guy that I took was RoyceLarson.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (20:18):
So that that's that's how we got to you guys.
That's where it started.
SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Yeah, no, I can't, I I hadn't really thought.
about it until we're reallyhaving a little bit more of a
conversation with Mike andJason.
That uh I mean the the tale isas old as time of the new guys
coming to a uh a unit that'sbeen hit hard that they're a
combat replacement and then thethe people that have been there
(20:46):
just like it's you know whetherit's conscious or unconscious
it's hard to integrate that newperson um for a variety of
reasons.
That's uh that's a that's arough role.
SPEAKER_03 (20:59):
Yeah you don't you don't ever think you're gonna be
in it until you're in it andthen you're like oh this is this
is what it's like you know so umbut but that feeling was short
lived you know the um uhsergeant sergeant g and you're
gonna you guys are gonna have tohelp me with names sergeant uh
leighton I believe it was yeahum there's a lot of other
(21:20):
individuals obviously in theplatoon um but they uh they were
welcoming I I didn't really likereceive cold shoulders or any or
anything negative um it was avery it was a young platoon uh I
knew that uh a lot of the a lotof the corporals were were newly
promoted and um sergeant G andLeighton they they seem to be
(21:40):
seasoned and everything but itwas a young platoon so I'm
thinking my my rank helped umanother thing that helped is uh
I'll get to it it was when Ivolunteered uh to drive but uh I
guess that will segue into thisso when we got to you guys um
you know I I think we flew outbeginning of May and staged for
(22:02):
a while and ended up finallygetting to you guys either a day
or the day of of salvage and andwe remember that that uh I think
Rainmaker um they were going outwell first off you know what
your guys is the schedule thatyou guys had was very good and
and I I don't know if you guystalked about that um you guys
(22:24):
had five sections I believebetween the things and your
rotation your rotation was washealthy and it was good um one
of your questions is is whowould you like to call out and
one of my answers is whoeverorganized that rotation that you
guys had and what I mean by thatis you guys did day missions day
QRF night missions night qrf andthen guard and those were one
(22:48):
week intervals so it and then ifif the city roared up or
anything or something happenedlike you know everyone was going
out and they were willing to butwhen it when it was the normal
operations it was it was livableum you if you got your sleep you
got your your downtime you gotwhatever so it was a really good
rotation uh uh whoever did thatyou know good good job to you
(23:08):
guys um I'm gonna be honest Idon't know who came up with that
I'm gonna bet it was uh acombined effort but I I have no
idea who came up with that I'mhoping I'll find out in the
future that's a good questionyeah you know I noted that
because when we first got in Idon't want to do a lot of the
back and forth of of three fiveto this but when when we got
(23:28):
into Ed D Wania the first timethe rotation that we set up it
it it was it was it was like afour hour foot patrol two hours
back four hours guard two hoursdown four hour foot patrol and
you we were doing that over andover and over again and we were
just like walking zombies that'sso I yeah I remember I remember
(23:49):
seeing your guys' schedule and Iwas like okay this isn't bad you
know um so yeah good job on thatum what was I saying before then
why did I say all that uh didyou think you were just talking
about how coming in on uhsavages you know right around
there that that you were hittingprobably right at the beginning
(24:11):
of a cycle so yep yep yep so soyou guys uh Rainmaker went out
on a mission and I was notallowed to go out with them I uh
acclimated or climatized I don'tremember which one they said but
they said and I I needed a fewdays there before I start going
out in your guys' rotation and Idon't know what it was I I I
believe that you guys ran Ithink he called them IED sweeps
(24:33):
uh at times you know um I meanthink think of the wording
behind that you guys weredriving around for IEDs um um so
I they went out and and andeveryone knows the story you
guys got hit and it was it was along day and you guys came back
we didn't know what was going onand um of course emotionals were
high rightfully so and andeverything and and um that's
(24:55):
when Savage was killed and infact I I think you guys also um
you didn't lose but another adriver of vehicle too was
injured I believe someone tookon their leg and and so that
gets me that's where I was goingwith it is I I was saying my
rake hill but also mevolunteered so later on that
evening they held a formationthey said all right you know
(25:15):
they're given a debrief andeverything and they said you
know uh we're we're still herewe're still operating someone
needs to drive vehicle too andand that's where I raised my
hand.
So I raised my hand to be thedriver of vehicle too.
I told them I said I I wouldn'tmind doing that I drove a lot
the first time the only thing Iwould ask for is can I have a
mono instead of a bino and thereason I wanted the mono uh for
(25:37):
people that listening is um youwe don't drive with headlights
but all the locals do.
So instead of gettingwhitewashed in both eyes when a
car drives by at night and andyou're blinded I would close the
one eye and and open up the onethat wasn't covered and then do
the reverse when they were done.
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
It's the old pirate trick man.
SPEAKER_03 (25:55):
Yeah the old pirate.
So Sergeant G says I'll get I'llget you a set of monos and he
got me a set of monos and then Iwas I was the driver for vehicle
too which was uh his vehicle Iwas driving him around and
that's uh where we really kickedoff our relationship so that's
cool man and that's actually uhthat's I mean I don't know how I
(26:16):
don't know why you did itnecessarily but that's smart I
mean it gives you a chance tokind of you know exactly what to
do you're just driving I'm justdriving yeah and then when you
get somewhere then you can dosomething else but like 99% of
the time you know you're gonnabe behind the wheel and you got
to take care of the truck sothat's that's a good starting
place.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Well yeah and go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
Oh I was just gonna say that when we've had you know
I don't know if we've said itthis directly before but um over
over in Ramadi during that timeyou needed to have really really
good drive thank god we did butthat was not a time to have the
biggest idiots behind the wheelum you needed you needed
(26:57):
somebody that could actuallythink for themselves and so yeah
I I'm Sarge G would complimentthe driving he goes I love it
I'm aggressive you know he goesyou'd push people out of the way
you would yo you'd speed upyou'd slow down you'd swerve
you'd do all this other stuffyou know and so so that was my
job.
I mean what what tense momentsdriving through the marketplace
(27:18):
right where the foot traffic isheavy as hell and you can't just
buzz right through but I I knewthat my Humvee was a lot heavier
than you know people walking inthe street.
So I I wasn't hitting them I wasright right so um so yeah so
that was that was mevolunteering and I and I think I
said that because um I wasn't inthe back I drove uh I started
(27:39):
out with a high back um so sothe people in the back were
dismounting do their thing if itwas uh I always called them
county fairs were they was thatone of the things that we we saw
that Operation County Fair wasright before you got there uh
but they but there was threeoperations that were called bug
hunts and those were the biggerones yeah um county fair is also
(28:02):
another one we had a couple ofthose the county fairs usually
were smaller and the bug huntswere bigger like district size I
don't know who decided thesenaming conventions and then
Operation Traveler was the otherbig one that was in like late
August or in early August andthat was uh most of the section
south of Route Michigan where uhZarkawi's family supposedly was
(28:28):
okay so anytime one of one ofthe operations happened like I
wasn't because when if it was amission or a QRF like he they
they turned when they dismountedit was a form of a line company
right they're on foot but I wasnot I I was I was with my gunner
we we had one of the 50 cales soI always stayed with the vehicle
(28:48):
so I say maybe my my rankvolunteering and you know just
staying with a vehicle where Iwasn't I wasn't mixed with the
the line company um practiceswhen they dismounted you know uh
I think I think that helpedwhere I was I was gaining
respect with the guys a littlebit so yeah nice yeah very good
(29:09):
the so um and I don't want to goI I don't want to jump the story
just too far but just for myframing purposes how long did
you stay in country with us?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Did you leave early or did you come back?
SPEAKER_03 (29:21):
I I I don't have I don't remember no no no I I I
flew out on one of the Helos Ithink it was like four or five
weeks before you guys left Ibelieve we left we left the end
of August and you guys left theend of September.
Yeah okay that sounds right okayyeah I don't mean to jump the
story I'm just trying to and inthe in the in the reason for
(29:41):
that is my my um my end wasOctober 1st so that was the end
of my contract.
Oh yeah well that was quick thenfor you too yeah yeah yeah I
mean they they were getting onemore deployment you know and and
if I if I wasn't fapped out foryou know uh button heads with
that staff sergeant you know I II would have been there but yeah
(30:03):
they they gave me they gave meabout four weeks to get checked
out okay yeah all right so goingback to uh so let's see here
going back to May um we had acouple a couple uh operations
coming into there um you saidthat you were sticking mostly
with the truck because you werethe driver do you do any of the
(30:23):
any of the missions inparticular stick out to you?
Uh um not the names uh if youtell me events that happened in
there that's that that rekindlesa lot of my stories um uh I
could tell you I could tell youstories about you know the BB
IDs that that went off behind usI yeah I mean why why don't why
(30:44):
don't we just why don't we juststart with some of the stories
right so so the so I I starteddriving so let's just say it was
May 13th um may 13th or 14th ifI could start driving after a
few days and after everythinghappened and and I I was driving
around and just being aggressiveand probably naive of the
(31:04):
situation you know all all I wasused to was was firefights from
organized groups right and theyyou know that was the first time
and and this this was nowdifferent warfare and and and
what a change then not theterrain um just the tension and
and our tactics and theirtactics um you know that the
first time over you know uh itit would be six people um as
(31:29):
stupid as it sound probably noradio communication going out in
town drinking chai with thelocals just to show presence um
your your guys' time and what weexpense uh experienced is when
we wanted to run to the armybase or something to go get
lunch because they had betterfood it was mandatory five
vehicles with full crews youknow uh every you know in in
(31:52):
calm and everything and then andthen like I said the first time
you know uh gunfires we knew whowere fighting we we saw them and
then you know kind of I justthink guerrilla warfare um and
your guys very on Mount Warfareand and really the biggest fear
then was IEDs and I we didn'tknow what IEDs were the first
time um and then neither did weyeah yeah yeah and then and then
(32:16):
and then um yeah IEDs that thatthen go to VB IEDs and um you
know one of you one of yourguys's question is what what do
you wish people knew um I guessabout Ramadi or Iraq or whatever
and and I wrote down I go wellthey're not stupid they're not
dumb they're very they are veryvery very creative you know when
(32:40):
when we would when we would umgo out in one of our bug hunts
and we would gather up all theweapons we found and all the
makeshift stuff you know there'sa lot of creativity in some of
the weapons and how theylaunched them especially like
the mortar systems you knowmorning and night uh they knew
we had counter battery radar youknow covered by the by the army
and stuff but they found out tokeep the low the shells you know
(33:02):
low enough or or they werelaunching them where they were
you know plenty of yards awaywhere if we turn fire went they
weren't being hit um I Iremember you know um tail signs
were new construction like ifyou saw a piece of we'll say
curb if it looked brand new portor whatever like stay away from
it you know why why is thatpoured what's in it well there
(33:23):
there's there's an artilleryround or a mortar round with the
device and the concrete is nowthe shrapnel around it you know
yeah um you know if if if youroll we talked about my shigan
downtown and and all of a seasudden you know you get the feel
the locals really if you see thefoot traffic start to clear an
area you better stay out of thatarea too um it's it's because
(33:44):
they knew what was going on Imean just just the creativity
that they had um by all meansthey weren't dumb at all.
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Do you remember your first firefight uh on this round
uh I know you fought in you knowduring the first push I'm sure
you got in a couple but do youremember your first one with the
2-4?
SPEAKER_03 (34:02):
Yeah yeah I do I uh I don't remember the date or
anything like that.
Uh I remember I mean the townthe town reared up a handful of
times I I think even in the timethat I was there.
And then one of our first littlescrimmages I I think it was when
we were on the QRF rotationduring the day and we we
launched out with one of theline companies and it was a
(34:23):
firefight they dismounted so Idon't I don't know where the
guys in the vehicle were oranything.
I I just know that I had I had Idon't remember it was it was it
wasn't it was a like a two-wayradio a push button right here
single single mic and I wasconnected to Sergeant G with
that and he would tell me heyI'm uh you know I'm down down
the road down the road and and Iremember just being aggressive
(34:45):
like I have the 50 cal this iswhat they want you know so I I
would push my my gunner up andyou watch down that way I'll and
then I'll get out of the vehicleI'll watch this way wherever
your back is that's where I'm atyou know stuff like that and I
rem I remember that was thefirst firefight uh I remember I
was very intrigued I was takinga lot of pictures I was very
intrigued by like bloody shoesfor some reason so if if you
(35:07):
ever want photos yeah the artinstallation I thought it was so
wild that like hey this personactually ran out of their shoe
you know and I was like I getwhy they didn't there's a big
old pile of blood and stuff likethat right there.
So I I got a lot of those maybethat was me trying to be an
artist or something like that.
I don't I don't know um but thatthat was my first firefight I
(35:29):
remember like crashing throughsomething because I was like I
you know Sergeant G wanted the50 cal watching down this road
and I was like okay um I'mtrying to think who my gunner
was um I called him Furby Icalled him Furby because he was
super hairy all over the placeso I was like you're yeah
defluentes yes that's thehairiest well probably the
(35:50):
second hairiest man I've everseen but he's he's he's up there
man that guy yeah likes thatsquad he was super cool I I
remember he said that I thinkhe's from Washington and his
family had a Christmas tree farmand they sold Christmas trees
yeah weird that's a good memoryman yeah yeah now that you said
it I remember that but Iwouldn't have remembered that
(36:10):
yeah yeah he he was a cool guy Ithink it was was he a Lance
corporal at that time he was Ithink he was super nice guy wore
glasses and everything a funnystory about him I think it was
his birthday or something likethat and the platoon um helped
him stay still on the floor byall of us holding him down and
and we shaved in 81s in the backhair so yeah that's perfect so
(36:35):
he he walked around and itlooked like he had a football
jersey number 81 on but that wasthat was his body you know it
was cool yeah so I he he was onthe 50 cal and and he wanted him
down the road I was watching theback and I I remember that was
like the first mount fire fightuh in Ramadi that I remember and
I I don't remember why we wereout there or anything I I think
(36:58):
it was to support a line companyor something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
That's a very common story.
SPEAKER_03 (37:02):
I mean that's that's a how a lot of those fights were
there were really they're nonamed they're they're no name
firefights yeah I I I tellpeople I go it's it's so weird
like we would stage we wouldstage QRF if you were QRF all
the vehicles in case you had tolike jump on in it like you know
(37:23):
jump on it like a horse and rideoff in town the all the vehicles
were staged ready to go and andyou would you would go on in
town and um I I I tell peopleit's just it's just very weird
you know having having thatmindset of we're going out in
town and you I I crossed myfingers was like please find a
fire fight please find afirefight instead of an IED
(37:46):
because it was only one of theother you're gonna find a fire
fight or you're gonna find anIED uh and I was like please let
it be the fire firefight sideyou know oh there's nothing you
can do for the IED you just getfucked up yeah yeah uh first
first IED I mean shortly daysafter I started driving I I
think it I think it was novaactually didn't I know nova had
(38:06):
the the hospital but was there aschool or were there schools on
Nova there was okay so I therewere there was one basically at
each end west and east so so wewere driving then it was nova
and it was a dirt road at thetime right and I was nova a dirt
road some parts of it were notall of it okay and and I
(38:27):
remember we're going down thatroute and someone says hey you
know Nova should be safe kind oflike the unwritten rule is
hopefully they don't mess withthe road that has the hospitals
and schools or something likethat.
That's probably I I know it'scompletely inaccurate but at the
time okay I was like okay youknow that makes sense but I
remember the first IED was wasright in front of our vehicle
and it it it was buried deep soit blew straight up in the air
(38:51):
and I was like oh shit that wasmeant for us you know and I was
like well then they're bad attheir timing you know but I
remember that being the firstfirst IED I saw was right
outside the school and it wasburied really deep on the side
of the road.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
So yeah it was nice it was nice when you got to see
it because I always figured theone that was going to kill me I
wasn't going to see it anyway.
Yeah the one time the one time Igot hit I didn't see shit I just
remember getting hit and feelinglike I got punched and then I
that was it and I didn't seeanything.
Yep where where at in town wasthat uh that was on route
(39:26):
Michigan we were on our way tocombat outpost it was just as
the main buildings of the citystarted to break up and you
started to head out into thefarm country to get to combat
outpost right at the east end ofthe city on route Michigan okay
I remember I remember I thinkwe're on an LPOP at the
(39:47):
graveyard or something like thatand just overseeing it we spent
hours out there probably daysactually um and I want to say we
rushed out and we were drivingdown Michigan because I think
the I think that was the day thepolice station got hit or
something bombed or somethinglike that.
SPEAKER_03 (40:06):
Okay.
And we we were rushing out thereand as you're heading back to
Hurricane Point um there's a sthere's like a a big split like
it ws off on Michigan.
Yep yep and and right therewhere it ws off uh I remember we
passed and then uh right behindus in between vehicle two and
(40:27):
three that That was the BB IDright behind our truck.
I listened to one of thepodcasts of the people that were
in the back of the truck.
I was like, yeah, I was driving,you know?
And that thing, I mean, youcouldn't see behind it.
All I was worried about wasvehicle number three because at
that time then, uh, RoyceLarson, who I took, was the
driver for vehicle number three.
So I was like, oh shit, was thatwas that Royce, you know?
(40:50):
And then all of a sudden you seehim just go through the um
through the dust cloud.
Um, but yeah, right in thatlocation was the BB ID.
And I remember listening to thatindividual's podcast.
He goes, for some dumb reason,we dismounted right then.
Like we stopped our convoy,herringbone, and we dismounted.
I was like, Yeah, that waspretty stupid.
Why did we do that?
But I remember we dismounted andand the blast went in between
(41:12):
our vehicles, but going theopposite direction was like an I
Iraqi taxi driver, and he tookthe hit.
Um I I remember seeing him, andthen um, like we we were just
like, all right, well, we wegotta go.
Police station just gotattacked, and so we we went back
over there.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
So if my memory serves me, I think part of our
philosophy on that was that wewanted to try to capture the
trigger man.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
Yeah, the human extraction teams uh and some of
the Intel people that that cameover and talked over at
Hurricane Point, they alwayssaid that if they they felt
pretty confident that if theycould get any of the triggermen,
they could at least figure outwhere they're getting the
munitions.
Because there was not a hugeartillery shell munitions depot
(42:00):
anywhere near Ramadi.
It was the the closest one weknew of was over by TQ Air Base,
which was out past Hobbiny and awhole bunch of other shit that's
on a map that nobody's gonnaunderstand anyway.
But far away, that's the shortversion.
And they that somebody wasbringing it in and and cacheting
it somewhere.
And so if they could figure outwhere those supply points were,
(42:21):
we could break up the supply ofIEDs and at least make the
lethality less.
You know, if they were justputting like a little bit of
comp B in a soda can orsomething, like mostly that's
not gonna kill somebody, but the155 shells were really tearing
tearing trucks apart and tearingpeople up.
SPEAKER_03 (42:36):
Yeah, it was uh it was different.
That's that's what I feared themost.
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Oh, yeah, by far.
By far.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
And and and like we started out, I I'm pretty sure
you guys did what you guyscalled IED sweeps.
Oh, we did.
Yeah, yeah.
So just I mean, just just thinkjust think about that.
The thing, the thing that wewere scared the most, we were
just like, we're driving aroundand seeing if there's an IED.
Well, how do you how do you knowthere's an IED if it goes off?
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Yeah, mostly.
If you were lucky, you could seesomething like you said,
disturbed pavement or disturbeddirt, and then call call out EOD
and take a look at it, butmostly that wasn't the case.
The line company guys were doingthe same thing, they had a uh an
area to patrol and they would doIED routes on foot.
Wow, and same thing, they lostdudes the same way, they would
(43:25):
walk right over the top of thembecause sometimes you saw it,
but uh sometimes you didn't seeshit.
SPEAKER_03 (43:31):
Yeah, that's that's wild.
SPEAKER_02 (43:32):
And I know a couple guys, and I be and I have a
story myself of it where youknow we would be on those
patrols and it would be buried,and for whatever reason they
chose not to pop at that time,but then you know, a few hours
later where you were standing,or you know, like that exact
area, even though that had tohave been buried previously
because there was enoughactivity that they wouldn't have
had time to do it.
(43:54):
But by the grace of God, forwhatever reason, they've decided
not to pop it well.
And I have one specificallywhere I was literally standing
right on top of it, and then ithit it hit uh the Fox Company
patrol.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Well, they they were saying uhthey they said the curse of
vehicle two, vehicle one drivesby, I guess they're attacking
vehicle number two, you know.
And I was like, Well, hold up,I'm driving vehicle number two,
I don't like this story, youknow.
So yeah, interesting.
Real interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Yeah, everybody had their their superstitions.
Ours was uh vehicle five and sixalways got when we had six, we
didn't have six most of thetime, but vehicle five always
got hit, always.
SPEAKER_03 (44:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I had my rituals androutines.
I I guess let me let me tell youthat superstitions, rituals and
routine.
I mean, I mean, I I always woreI always wore the the a cross
that I wore the first time andeverything and everything like
that.
Uh the platoon used to make funof me because so in in the huts
or hoochas or or whatever youguys call them, so it was like
(44:57):
it was like a bunk bed setup,and and a lot of the younger
Marines, you know, bottom bunk,top bunk, and stuff like that.
And then mine was I just had thebottom bunk and my top bunk was
storage.
And and I remember alwaysthinking, because we we you
know, we you got mortar where wegot mortared all the time, you
know, usually usually in themortar pool.
And I would look up at the theceiling, and I'd be like, Yeah,
(45:18):
round would go through that.
So I would always like lay mygear out with my flat jacket,
like where I lay down, you know,on my bed just in case and stuff
like that.
My helmet would be where my headis and everything.
Um, but I I had a um a CDplayer, and and every mission
they started out making fun ofme.
Every mission I would I wouldblast Eye of the Tiger through
(45:39):
my oversized headphones, youknow, and I would listen to Eye
of the Tiger.
But then, but then they startedto buy into it.
I remember like Sergeant G, likewhen we would stage up and and
we had another ritual in thevehicle, he'd be like, Did you
listen to Eye of the Tiger?
I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Idid.
We're good, we're good, youknow, stuff like that.
So they they started out withthat, you know, and and right
(46:00):
beside me was uh Hodges and allthat.
And uh I think he's he wouldstart out making fun of me, but
at the end he'd be like, putthat music up, you know, let's
listen to it.
I was like, okay, that'sawesome.
One of our routines.
SPEAKER_02 (46:13):
Um you're gonna try and take any advantage you can.
Yeah, right?
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
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