With Gauze and Grit - Rudy Contreras (part 1 of 2) - Constant Combat

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Fantastic.
So let's introduce yourself.
Tell everybody your name, rank,and who you were with in 2004.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
Hi, uh Doc Doc Contreras, Rudy Contreras.
Uh I was uh part of uh 2ndBattalion, 4th Marines, 5th
Marine Regiment, 81 millimetermortar platoon, rainmaker.
Uh so was weapons company.
I was the uh line corpsman.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Nice, nice man.
So what are some Contreras?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
E3.
All right, cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
Yeah, E3.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And so going back to that, what uh what are some of
your first memories from back inthat 2004 deployment?
Or even the lead up to it,either one.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Well, I joined the Navy, right?
So I had no clue that I wasgonna be uh with the Marines.
I had done over half my career.
I'm still active duty right now,so just under 24 years, but uh
over half my career has beenwith Marines.
Uh Second Fourth Marines was myfirst unit.
Uh super apprehensive about whatlife was gonna be like, uh even

(02:05):
from the day to day.
I mean, they prepare you as aFMF corpsman, they send you to
what used to be called PhilMedical Service School.
There's two, just like uh, youknow, beautiful MCRD.
There's the Paris Island andthere's uh West Coast Hollywood
Marines, right?
Or Hollywood style.
Uh I attended at the West Coast,uh, graduated, I think it was in

(02:27):
August, and then I was in theunit by August of 2003.
Oh, yes, 2003.

SPEAKER_00 (02:35):
I didn't realize you joined.
I thought I don't know why thatI thought you joined us earlier
than that.

SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
No, yeah, because I I guess 24 has come back from
the OK deployment.
That was uh almost a year long.
So a lot of disgruntledness,right?
Uh, because you know, I receivedwhat we call the the shield, the
caduce, right, that the Corpsmenwear on their Marpads.
Uh I actually received that theday that uh 1st Marine Division

(03:00):
crossed the LOD uh uh fromKuwait into Iraq.
So when Bush Jr.
uh launched that uh that that'sthat's the day I was still in
school, so I hadn't graduatedyet.
I wasn't even slated to go withthe Marines, it was it was
indeterminate to where I wassupposed to go.
I had uh set of orders thatunfortunately I'd lost because

(03:21):
of uh just school stuff.
Uh I got sent back in school atField Med.
And then uh I was in the air.
But uh once once that groundeffect had lost had launched, I
was like, man, that this is myshot.
I want to go.
So I ended up going to firstMarine Division.
I showed up at the where theythey like our monitor, but the

(03:41):
internal, it's called DivisionSurgeon's Office.
I showed up there and I waslike, hey man, who's going who's
going back into this the shit?
And uh they said, Oh yeah, thisunit here, uh they're just
getting back from Okinawa.
And I was like, okay, well, Idon't know what that means, but
sure, with I'll I'll go withthese guys.
So initially I I was I wasattached to uh golf company and
uh we executed Bridgeport.

(04:03):
Uh so I I did mountain warfaretraining with Bridgeport, got to
know some of those cats, whichwas pretty dope.
First filled up, almost died onan eye face.
Uh get up here, Marine.
I was like, I'm not a fuckingmarine, help me.
I had to move the gradient, andthey're just like, get your ass
up here.
I was like, somebody fuckingpull me up.

(04:24):
But uh yeah, it was it was veryinteresting.
Super, I didn't know what I wasgetting to.
Get back off of Bridgeport.
Uh and uh Doc Ray Brant uh wasHM2 at the time, I believe, or
HM3.
And uh we just clicked, man, anduh he's like, hey man, you you
should go to weapons company.
Those those guys are the that'swhere you want to be.
I I guess uh the the motto wasif you can't truck it, fuck it,

(04:46):
right?
So uh not as much ground stuff.

SPEAKER_03 (04:49):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
So I was like, hey, that that sounds more up my my
my speed right there.
So I ended up uh getting shiftedover to uh weapons company, and
then uh I believe we did a fewother uh field exercises before
then, like uh we had did the theuh satellite training or uh that
the coin for coin the operationslike that.

(05:13):
So we did that at the theabandoned Air Force Base.

SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Yeah, the counterinsurgency office was at
March Air Force Base, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
Yeah, yeah, but March.
So um again, that's what Istarted to click with the guys.
I I really had no clue what wasto be expected.
All I know is that all I hadever heard was that if you were
in the Navy and if you were acorpsman and you're FMF, that
once they started calling youDoc, that's when they had
respect for you.
Other than that, it was like,hey shit back, or hey sailor, or

(05:40):
hey squid, get the fuck overthere, you know.
So yeah, I just hit it running,man.
You know, I I I I think I gaineda lot of admiration from the
guys.
Uh I showed them I wasn't gonnaquit, you know, uh every every
field up exercise or or everyevery hump we went on, I was
there.
Uh I think I was always I felt Iwas always present.

(06:02):
Uh but going into uh that's ahundred percent true.

SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
You were a double doc from the beginning.
You weren't afraid to throw uh Iremember if some of those first
uh humps that we went on, youwere you were actually almost
begging to grab some of the likea bipod or whatever to throw it
on your pack to come along.
And so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Yeah, it was anything to you know just to
feel part of that.
Uh I mean I came I came up froma pretty I think if you're dumb
and enlisted like we all were,right?
Like uh you come up from humblebeginnings, right?
Or the mud, as they say.
Uh either when you're enlisted,you're you're dumb and uh
enlisted, but uh either you'rerunning to find something or
you're running away fromsomething.

(06:41):
And I I was 23 when I joined.
So by the time I got to theunit, I was already 25.
Uh and uh yeah, I just felt thatcamaraderie, what I had didn't
have when I was growing up as akid, you know, and uh in my
mid-20s by then.
So uh it really shaped anddeveloped me from thereafter.
But uh yeah, being with theguys, I didn't know what to

(07:03):
expect.
I I thought everybody was gonnabe shitting and pissing
themselves in in combat, but itwas it was the total opposite,
man.
Everybody was getting it.

SPEAKER_00 (07:11):
So dude, that's pretty good.
Well, you said uh you said youfelt like or somebody had told
you the first when peoplerespect you, they'll start
calling you doc.
You remember the first timepeople started calling you doc?

SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
I think it was, and I couldn't tell you it was
either in the field, uh Shane,or or uh at March.
But I just remember, you know,like Blake had mentioned, and
it's like uh, you know, grabbingthe bass plate, grabbing the
bipods, or even when we had theline set up, you know, shooting
the guns, and it was just yeah,it was just a rush, you know,
and and that uh I haven't Ihaven't really felt that since

(07:46):
and it kind of became a problema few years back.
I was having a little lull in mycareer.
I was stuck with the the Navyand uh but the Marines were
there actually.
Second Battalion, Fourth Marinewas on the on my ship and were
doing a mu workup.
And uh yeah, it was justdifficult because uh yeah, the
the surface guys is what werefer to them, they're just

(08:07):
they're on that other level.
I mean, the the Marines eattheir young, but that's if you
can't if you're if you can'tthin for yourself, then they'll
eat you up.
Uh the the surface guys, theyjust eat everybody up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
I appreciate that.
I appreciate that.
So you uh mentioned March.
Um that would have been whenthat was like January time
frame.
Um and then a couple weeks laterwe get uh we get our orders to
head on out.
What do you remember of ourtransition over to uh to over to

(08:43):
Rumadi?

SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
Uh C 130.
Was it C 130?
Yeah, I think it was it C3 C131.

SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
So it's actually a C-141 starlifter is the actual
model of that aircraft.
Yeah, yeah.
They retired those after us.

SPEAKER_02 (08:59):
Yeah, they for good reason.
Well, I think we we we loaded upFebruary, right?
And then we broke down in NewJersey, and we were on the Air
Force base.
And of course, being with theMarines, we had to do a uh uh a
run, a moto run.
So that was that was that wasfucking nuts in the snow.

(09:22):
Uh I'm sure the Air Force reallyappreciated that.
Um but yeah, doing that headingout there, even then, I was
already caring for Marines.
I had a Marine that I think hehad strep throat, and he was uh
SIQ, and we kicked him out ofthe hooch, and he was in his own
little room.
But I still remember caring forhim.
Uh I don't I don't remember hisname, but yeah, I remember just

(09:43):
caring for him and then anddoing that, and I was like, man,
is this what I'm about to do thewhole fucking time?
Pretty much, you know, it waspretty much uh a lot of
babysitting, and I'm sure I wasbabysat uh a bit myself, but uh
yeah, I remember that it wasgetting there.
Um I didn't when we landed inKuwait, I was a few weeks there,

(10:05):
I believe we were getting setup, and uh it was hot as fuck,
of course.
And uh I just remember stayingin like the army, and I was
like, well, it wasn't one of thearmy, but I realized it was like
the National Guard, and likethese guys are like these guys
have like no fucking discipline,they're just walking around,
just bebopping, and you know,all we're all preparing for what

(10:25):
the potential could be.
Uh one of my fondest memorieswas on the grinder before we
loaded up is our tap gear, likeuh how it didn't have any names
on it.
And I was like, this is this isweird, right?
Like, because it was all thedigital pattern, yeah.
And I was like, they didn't theydon't expect us to even come
back, like we don't even get aname, and then we were even told

(10:45):
not to put our names on thingsbecause again, I don't feel the
higher-ups kind of understood orknew what was to come.
Uh, but I think in the back oftheir minds they knew they they
knew what in retrospect, when Ilook at it being a senior
enlisted leader, uh kind of likewhat they were preparing us for,
right?
And a lot I don't think theyanticipated even a lot of us

(11:06):
even coming back.
So that that always kind ofstuck in my mind is uh laying
all those uh cammings out on thegrinder and and spraying them
with the permethrin uh for thebugs, uh, and then getting in
that C-130 loading up, and thenI was fortunate enough to fly
into Iraq, and then uh I guessthe rest of them had loaded up
weapons company and all theother battalion had loaded up

(11:29):
and they drove into Iraq.
But uh yeah, I just remember mybig trunk of medical gear that I
had afforded along the way.
Uh so that was pretty dope.
But yeah, that's that's prettymuch what I remember when we
were heading in and gettingprepared for that.

SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
When we uh we had the we were able to talk to Doc
um Bundy, and he had talkedabout uh that he had to also
acquire a lot of uh medical gearprior to jumping over there.
Um it sounds like that was yourexperience too, uh, realizing
that what you were gettingkitted out for wasn't going to

(12:05):
be enough.

SPEAKER_02 (12:06):
Yeah, and and uh we have this thing called tactical
casualty combat care, and thatand the first thing is to uh the
best preventive medicine is whatthey say is to uh oppress the
enemy fire.
Uh when I when I was goingthrough my medical training at
Field Medical Service School, uhthe tourniquet was the actually
the last resort.

(12:28):
And uh subsequently what wefound out is it's the first
thing you do.
And uh unfortunately I found outthe hard way.
Uh it wasn't on Marines, but itwas on uh Iraqi casualties.
Um but yeah, that thattourniquet, I still remember
being so proud because I hadmade one out of uh that muslin
gauze.
All you guys like to use themfor your headbands and and your

(12:48):
face covers and shit.
But I was like, that's mybandage, fuckers.
But uh yeah, I I remember thathaving to uh uh uh adapt and and
make tourniquets out of these uhuh muslin gauze and uh grenade
rings and uh stick.
So yeah, that was that was a bigthing because again, you know,
if you look at the casualties uhthat the first string took, it

(13:11):
wasn't really it was bad, ofcourse, but it wasn't like what
we were doing with the guerrillafighting, so or the surgeon
fighting with the IEDs and uhmore of the uh explosive stuff.
But uh, but yeah, it was it wasthat was that was the deal.
I hoarded a lot of shit.
So yeah, Mike X came to me a lotand we kind of fed off of each

(13:32):
other because uh we reallydidn't have much when we went
out there that first time.

SPEAKER_00 (13:35):
So yeah, I still remember being at March Air
Force Base and being in like amodified medical class with you,
uh, and some of the British guysthat were going through stuff,
and they started talking aboutit.
Was their medical guy, andthey're like, Yeah, you can make
a tourniquet out of gauze, andthen they were talking about
treating a sucking chest woundby using the wrapping paper on a

(14:00):
on a bandage and taping it onall sides.
And I was like, and you look nowat medical gear now, and there's
easy pre-made wind lacetourniquets that are way fast to
put on.
Same thing with sucking chestwound stuff, like it's a literal
one one peel and stick seal.
Like, it's insane the amount ofcrap we were like, oh yeah, just
rig it together with some ducttape, you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 (14:23):
Well, yeah, that duct tape, duck duct tape is
definitely your friend as a doc.
But yeah, that that's how itwas, man.
We we we were we were taught tobe innovative in that sense.
Uh so yeah, what whatever wecould devise out of whatever
means we had that uh we were wewere authorized to use it, so
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Cool, man.
And then you said you flew intoIraq?
Yep, so we flew in.
So you guys flew in probablyprobably to Al-Assad, or did you
I don't I and that's whatsomebody else said, but I'm not
even sure.
Yeah.
And then how did you get from AlAl-Assad to uh Hurricane Point?

SPEAKER_02 (14:59):
Seven tons.
Uh yeah, seven tons.
Which which was I mean, theyweren't armored when we first
got there.
I think we all remember that.

SPEAKER_03 (15:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:07):
Uh and that that's another rem the another reminder
of I have is when we departed,like when we left and we drove
to Al-Assad, and uh, you know,fighting from a vehicle or
fighting from the ground was adifferent thing.
So uh our our uh 0311 brethren,right?
Those guys, I I I I commend themon what they had to endure a lot

(15:28):
of that uh being the back of aseven-ton, but uh that's one of
my my fondest memories was uhactually departing headed to
Al-Assad from Hurricane Point,yeah, was uh loading the back of
a fucking umbi, and I'm like, ohshit, this is the worst place to
be.
Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Do you think when you uh when leaving Camp or Camp
Victory down in Kuwait, headingup to uh Al-Assad?
I can't remember.
See, I don't remember did thatdid that happen in sticks, or
did you guys mostly come?
Did everybody come up all atonce?
I don't I don't remembereverybody coming into Hurricane

(16:03):
Point very well, of like whetherit came in waves or if everybody
came at once.
Do you remember that, Doc?

SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
Well I remember it was sticks, like like it was
just sticks of us, you know, andso vehicle commanders, uh, and
then drivers, and then gunners,a gunners.
So I I would like to say it wasthe minimally manned for the
vehicles for the um movementdown there.
So I and I wanted to say it tookthem a little while to get down

(16:31):
there.
Uh but remember it, or if yourecall, it wasn't it wasn't
heavily laden with IEDs then.
So the the movement was prettyuh minimal with contact.
I don't think there was even anex an engagement uh from them
crossing from Kuwait into Iraq.
So but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
Yeah, I mean we six is what I recall.
When we drove up, because I waspart of the element that drove
up, uh, there was one group outof all of the convoy, one group
that got hit, got had an IED gooff, and someone got minimally
wounded, like fine, didn'treally need any significant

(17:09):
treatment, wasn't evacued.
And then they took, I think, oneset of pop shots, and it was
like somebody had drove up andlike fired out of a window and
like drove off, and that was it.
Like there was literallynothing.

SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Yeah, so and that kind of set the tone, right?
Like being there and sittingthere and waiting, like I think
we were all kind of just waitingfor that day.
Yeah, you know, uh, we knew weknew something was happening.
Like, I I think uh from what Irecall is that they didn't even
realize that we were Marinesbecause of our Marpat, the

(17:45):
digital pattern.
I think they thought we werewe're like Spaniards or some
shit.
But uh yeah, because the big thewho was already there, remember?
So we're fighting on the big redone, they were there, and uh, I
just remember showing up to thecamp and and you know, in
typical good old Marine Corpsfashion, like we need area
beautification.
So they start you know sweepingdirt and fucking setting up

(18:06):
rocks, and yeah, the camp that Iremember we took up Hurricane
Point was just kind of likeblasted, right?
So even our uh CMUs or theconcrete masonry units that we
lived in had the the canvas thecanvas uh ceilings or roofs on
them.
Yeah, so I was like, man, whatshithole is this?
And this is how we're gonnafight.

SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
Well, and that wasn't even where that wasn't
even where the National Guardunit that we had relieved was
staying.
They were staying in the palace.
And we put our H and S companyin the palace, and then we went
in those sheds.
So yeah, so I mean that timelinewas we crossed at least the the

(18:47):
driving part.
I don't know when you guys flewup, uh, probably around the same
time, but we drove up March 6th.
But we didn't wait around toolong to find out that it was
serious.
Um, McPherson was wounded, andhe was the jaw, you know, where
he had his his jaw blown off.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know if it was abike, was it a bicycle?

(19:08):
I think you're thinking of that.

SPEAKER_02 (19:10):
I was under the uh I thought McPherson was a bicycle,
and the bike went off and uh itdid uh rip off the lower half of
his jaw.

SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
I truly don't know.
We went out way after everythingwas damn near done and just for
support, but didn't do anything.
Anyway, that was March 13th.
So we were there seven daysbefore before there was a
significant wounding and a and abig IED.
And then it wasn't long afterthat that Worth was wounded.
It was March 20th that Worth waswounded by the the bike IED and

(19:45):
he lost his eye.
And so it it all became prettyreal pretty fast.

SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
And then we we lost that agent kid too, right?
RPG, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (19:53):
Uh Fox Company or Golf Company.
Yes, Dang.
Dang.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh you guys, you were withRainmaker, correct?

unknown (20:02):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah, you guys, you guys were the QRF for that when
Dang was killed by the RPG, andthat was March 22nd.

SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
Yeah, and you know, I didn't out of you know being
Rainmaker and having respondedto just about every tick there
was, right?
Um I don't remember seeing uhDang I uh from afar, but uh uh
is what I recall.
Like I didn't even get to go tothe casualty at that point.
Um but yeah, that was that waslike oh shit, you know, and it

(20:30):
was like is it gonna be I thinkthat was uh the most
frustrating, like is it gonna bethis whole time, just like
little pop shots, or we're gonnabe able to go and find someone.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
Well, I mean, I guess that's a good question
then.
What was the first casualty thatyou remember treating?

SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Uh April.
April is when I remembertreating my first casualties.
I think it was April 6th.

unknown (20:54):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Fourth, fifth?

SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
Fourth or fifth?
Yeah, just to give you an ideaof the timeline right, it was uh
April April 4th was when Morriswas wounded by the I or by the
RPG, and then he ended up dyingon the morning of the 5th.
Uh and then technically April5th is when the the Operation

(21:15):
Vigilant Resolve, which didn'thave anything to do with us,
that was Fallujah, but that waswhen the Battle of Fallujah
kicked off.
And then the morning of the 6thwas when the battle of
technically the first battle ofRamadi started.

SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Yeah, so that that one I do remember because we had
a coordinated effort with golfcompany or attempted coordinated
effort.
Golf had uh cordoned off asection of the of the city, and
they started taking heavily,heavy gunfire.
And uh there was reports comingin off the good old uh Prick 119
or whatever green gear we had,and it was uh really spotty,

(21:50):
right?
Uh because of line of sight.
So uh well, we were getting fedback, and I just remember being
QRF uh and I think I was in uhTrelvic.
So we'd come up uh to a casualD.
And it I thought it was serious,but it was a kid had just rolled
his ankle.
I think it's the one that yousee on the uh uh Joey or Hersher

(22:14):
Joe was on the front cover, andthey're like had the Marine
walking inside the BAS, and uhhe was just rolled ankle.
Oh yeah.
And uh was kind of I was kind ofpissed about that.
I was like, this is it, man.
Get the fuck up, let's go.
But uh yeah, I think that was uhthe first casualty I had I'd
recognize or remember seeing uhbeing a marine casualty.

(22:37):
Uh after those those days offighting, there's a few more
Marines I had seen, but uh uh myplatoon had not sustained any
severe casualties.
We got sprayed and got hit withRPK uh ambush, but uh the Lance
Corporal Savage uh he was ableto uh effectively take out that

(22:57):
target.
But uh yeah, other than that, II didn't really have a lot of
marine casualties other than myone KIA, uh Mr.
Savage, uh, but that was untilMay.

unknown (23:09):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
So but yeah, up until that point it was just
sporadic guys, you know, acouple thrown-throughs and heat
casualties, but uh yeah, a lotmore uh Iraqi casualties uh that
I had treated.

SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
So well you talked about an ambush.
You want to tell that story?

SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
I I just remember we the because I was in the trail
Vic, right?
So I remember first Vic got litup, and I just remember peeking
over the top and seeing what Iguess were tracers or remnants
of rounds kind of bounce off hischicken plate and then uh ended
up taking out that target.
And uh at that time I I was notarmed with an M16.

(23:51):
I had the beautiful old uh ninemillimeter beretta, and
everybody else was shooting, andI was like, oh shit.
I seen this one guy just runningacross like a rooftop, and I was
like, over there, and I juststarted shooting, and like, what
are you fucking shooting at?
I was like, I could see thatguy, and uh subsequently uh a
Vic comes rolling up, and it wasa uh I think it was a civilian

(24:13):
vic and uh the the Marines wereeffective enough to uh spray the
vehicle and to disable it, butit just kept going.
And I just remember the dude, itwas a taxi driver, it had to be
a civilian.
He just I remember him juststill holding on the wheel, just
driving by, and I'm looking athis car, just riddled with
bullets, and he just kept ondriving.
I was like, oh shit, what thehell?

(24:34):
But uh yeah, it was uh that wasthat was really odd.
That uh uh that that was justthat just stuck in my mind.
Uh just popping off with thatguy who that was on the rooftop.
It looked like he was moving,but there was no way I hit that
dude.

SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
He was like hundred, hundred yards out, but well, and
with those uh those wonderfulberettas that are terribly
inaccurate at five feet, so uhtrying to hit anybody at any
distance is almost impossible.

SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
Well, I had it had a nice little trajectory on it, so
I mean it maybe maybe maybe it'sspooked the guy.
So like artillery.
Hey that's good, yeah.
That it was I I so I did sustaina a number of TBIs, right?
During that uh I think myvehicle was hit almost six
times, six or eight times close.

(25:22):
Um Lieutenant Dobb, I don't knowif he if I've seen you guys did
the dauber uh on the podcast,but uh yeah, we had the I think
the warlocket was that thing andit and it sat next to me.
And uh there was one mission wecame off and we got hit for like
the fifth fucking time.
Then he remember just gettingoff in Hurricane Point, him
going over the side of the VICbecause it sat next to me, and

(25:44):
he just pulled that shit out andhe fucking threw it on the
ground.
It was like fuck this.
I was like, okay, it's likeyeah, fuck this shit.
Yeah, sir.
But uh yeah, I forgot about it.

SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
I forgot about those shitty warlock systems.
The idea was supposed to be thatthey were radio jammers, but uh
there was we had some hype, atleast this again, this was in
our platoon when we got one.
We had a hypothesis that it setoff a few IEDs because there was
a there was a few times we droveup and they went off like
correct almost at the effectivedistance of the warlock, and we

(26:15):
were like, What the fuck isgoing on?
Why did it go off?

SPEAKER_01 (26:19):
Until you said that I had completely forgotten that,
and that's like that was exactlywhy uh Gunny Cook was like,
uh-uh.
And he also took it out becausewe were like, this is just
setting them off, right?

SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Well, because if you think about it, it's throwing
out those signals, right?
And it's supposed to jam them.
But if it was a signal that wasmeant to actuate it, I mean,
there you go.
Yeah, I mean it it didn't takemuch to figure that out.
So yeah, I just forgot toremember sitting next to that
thing and humming it, and I waslike, Oh, and then this this
thing right because I mean weyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(26:54):
So but yeah, so my my rec remremembrance of those first few
days of them fighting werepretty intense.
And again, remember, I didn'thave a rifle, so everywhere I
went I had to I had to fall andtrace with the Marines, so I
really had to excuse me, relyupon them and and their ability
to protect me.
Um I remember uh KK Corrota, uhhe he retired as a staff

(27:20):
sergeant.
He was here just actually lastweek.
He's got a his son's inChesapeake, so not too far from
me.
But he he retired in the in theCarolina, so he drove up here
with his wife and his new familyto go pick up his son.
But uh yeah, we were talkingabout it.
Uh one of my fond remembrancesof is was the good old ACOG, the
seven power scope, which everyMarine gets issued now at the

(27:40):
gate, but uh only a few selectmarksmen uh were supplied with
ACOGs.
Yeah, and uh I think it wasduring the sixth or one of those
days that uh he was they weretaking pretty accurate fire from
an alleyway, and uh KK wasfiring and but it's his his
weapon wasn't cycling correctly.
So uh I'm sure you all rememberMr.

(28:02):
Hodges, right?
Uh Reagan.
So Reagan walks over to KK andhe's like, give me the fucking
rifle.
And there and these two Marinesare fighting for a rifle to
shoot the bad guys at the end ofthis alley.
They're like, is this the wayI'm gonna die?
Are we are we really fuckingdoing it, Trader?
Are we fighting over who's goingto shoot the bad guys with the

(28:23):
seven power scope?
Anyway, Reagan gets over there,he couldn't figure the rifle
out.
I don't know.
KK doesn't recall, but you know,in the in those moments, uh uh,
but he ended up cycling through,they end up uh uh uh fucking
putting or suppressing thetarget.
But yeah, I was just like, oh mygod, these guys, we're fighting
over this right now.
Like, come on, man.

(28:44):
But yeah, a lot of my uh is isjumbled, you know, because of
the old TBI TBIs.
But uh what I do remember is isthose uh first few days of just
intense, intense fighting.
Some of it was house to housebeing QRF and having to suppress
uh the enemy and move into andinto the homes there.

SPEAKER_00 (29:05):
So yeah, were you going into houses?

SPEAKER_02 (29:08):
Yeah, yeah, I was going into houses.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
I went wherever with your pistol, yeah, with my
pistol like this.

SPEAKER_02 (29:14):
Nice.
I there was at one point at onetime when I still had my pistol
where uh uh BC came out with uhgood old uh Jim, right?
So uh or Sergeant Major Booker.
Yeah, and I'm standing there ina VIC and we got hit and uh we
were taking sporadic fire, youknow, and it wasn't very
accurate, right?
Uh, but we were about to moveinto or engage where they were

(29:36):
where they were shooting at usfrom.
And uh uh I just remember Jim oruh Sergeant Major walking by me.
He's like, Doc, yeah, you canput that pistol away.
We got plenty of guns out here.
I was like, Oh, okay, SergeantMajor.
I'm like, I felt so fuckingdefeated, man.
You know, I felt so defeatedthat day.

(29:58):
But uh I did, I was issued arifle, Gunnery Sergeant Cook,
retired master gunnery sergeant,uh, not Cook, believe my last uh
Maraki.
Maraki had had had issued me myfirst rifle, uh, my first M16A2.
And uh initially I the guys, youknow, Marines always like to
fuck with their doc because theylove us so much.

(30:18):
Uh we were trading out riflesfor machine gunners because it
was better for them to have a uha pistol versus a rifle when we
didn't have enough.
So they came and uh one of theMarines told me, Hey Doc, uh
Gunny Maraki wants to see you uhbring your pistol.
I'm like, what the fuck?
I thought I I thought I was introuble because of me uh
shooting at that, those guys.

(30:39):
I I had shot at a couple people,right?
But in protection of my Marines,of course.
And uh so I thought I was introuble.
I was like, oh fuck, I'm gonnaget like charged for war crimes
or some shit.
And uh know what it was.
He was taking my pistol and he'slike, he looked up at me, filled
the cards out, and he's like,had six magazines laid out, you

(31:00):
know, combat load, and then mymy uh my five five six and my
rifle, and he's like, take it,Doc.
And I was like, Me, me, take it.
I was like, oh shit, are yougonna fucking take the rifle,
Doc?
I was like, yes, gonna start andgrab that shit and I fucking ran
back to the hooch.
And uh I was so proud that day.
I was like, yeah, no, I'm one ofthe guys, you know.
I I thought I could actuallyengage, and I did subsequently

(31:23):
engage uh a number of targetswith that with that beautiful
rifle of mine.
So but yeah, that was one of myfonder memories uh uh of being
there was uh that was like ohshit, there I'm really getting
treated, like one of the guys,and then all the other guys got
rifles too.
I'm like, what the fuck?
But yeah, yeah, that was thatwas the thing.

SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Well, it was a big command shift in that we were
not gonna get combatreplacements as fast as we were
taking casualties, and there waslots of discussion like, do we
merge platoons?
Do we then like make you knowrun with less platoons and then
we would just run them ragged?
And then it was like, Well, wegotta put more guns on the
field.
And it's like, well, the docksare getting fucking blown up and

(32:04):
shot just the same way.
I don't know why we're not, youknow, and I don't know whose
idea it was, but I do rememberwhen they made the idea, it's
probably Meraki's idea,realistically.
And we're like, nope, we're justgonna put them in the stack,
give them give them a rifle.

SPEAKER_02 (32:17):
Well, I think I think a lot of that was your
fault, Shane.
I mean, being an NCO and Blake,you know, I think when I say
your fault, it's a good thing,right?
I mean, you guys recognize that,and that's one of the more
appreciable things, and I and Ifeel that it has stayed with
Marine Corps doctrine.
Now, mind you, I haven't beenwith the Marines infantry uh
since uh 2016.

(32:38):
But uh, and even then I was asenior enlisted, I was staff NCO
by then, so I wasn't doing thethe the ground grunt stuff.
But that that that stayed wasthat you know, if you want to
know battlefield and exercisebattlefield prowess prowess, it
you're getting that from youryoung NCO.
So you I I feel that you guyshelped shape that, like you
know, fighting for us andsaying, hey man, these guys are

(33:00):
in the fucking stack, you know.
Uh uh, and there was I went onevery mission.
I even started taking overmissions for um um so I was
Rainmaker, and then our other umour other mortar platoon, what
his name alludes me.
Yeah, Sledgehammer.
Sledgehammer, their doc.
Uh he he he was uh OIF one vet,right?

(33:24):
So he is one of the guys thatworked came from 3-5.
We actually had a few of them.
Brian Hinkle, uh, he tapped andhe wasn't going on mission or he
wasn't standing guard becauseyou know he had that
thousand-yard stare going on.
So uh I had to take up a lot ofhis missions as well.
But uh being a part of all that,you know, and seeing all those
those those uh those missions,then getting on all those ticks.

(33:48):
Uh I mean I fought just with therest of them.

SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
So you bring uh I appreciate yeah uh bringing up
Doc Hinkle.
Um something I was gonna ask youthat I hadn't ever really fully
appreciated until we startedhaving these other conversations
is that a lot of the otherplatoons had two docks.
Um and uh because we got splitas 81's platoon into two, um we

(34:16):
then ran only one dock.
And so um talk talk talk aboutthat.
Um because that would have put alot more pressure on you,
obviously.
You can't be in two places atonce.

SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Well, and it sounds like he had to be in two places
at once.
Now he's covering two platoons.

SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah, it and you know it it was tough.
I actually did have I I wasn'tvery happy of with Doc Hinkle at
the time, right?
You know, um, but in retrospect,we've since made amends and I
went to his wedding and and allthese other great things.
He, you know, he's beenremarried and uh yeah, but I was

(34:54):
upset with him because I'm like,man, this is bullshit.
Why am I having a cover down onthis guy's you know for the
Marines?
But at the end of the day, itwas they were all you know, one
team, one fight is what I reallybelieved in.
Uh so it was very difficult.
I even took his watch.
I was standing watching on thebridge, uh, on the bridges on
the Tigers and Euphrates, andthose two watches that we would
stand there at HP.
Uh, but I was pretty upset withhis ass for a hot minute.

(35:17):
You know, I had uh a lot ofanimosity towards him, but then
again, I just found it in myselfthat like he was he didn't do
it, you know.
He had things on his mind, uh,you know.
Um so yeah, um, because he hadkids at home.
And I had kids at home.
I had actually just gottenmarried in September, September
11, 2003.

(35:38):
So before we left, I was newlymarried.
I was just at dad.
So my kids were at home.
Uh and uh that was tough.
It was really tough for me tomake it through it because
again, you know, I was like, whythe fuck is this guy not able to
pick up his slack?
Uh but then I I I thought itbecause I was a little older,
you know, 25, being a littlemore emotionally intelligent, I

(35:59):
guess you could say, uh, andmature.
Um but I I I I don't regret anyfucking minute of it.
Uh I I loved being out therewith the guys.
I I think even after uh when wewere retrograding and we were
moved over to the big red one,and they had us in that position
to to fly out or to move out toAl Assad.

(36:19):
Um they were still getting 2-5was still getting pretty fucking
tore up during the rip process.
And uh I even tried to sneakinto a vehicle to to leave the
base and they kicked me out ofthe VIC.
Like, get the fuck out of here,Doc.
You don't need to be here.
And I was like, Yes, I do.
But uh yeah, it was it was itwas tough, but again, you know,
it builds grit and resilience.
Uh, I don't I don't regret anyany moment of that being there

(36:42):
for him.
And I I think he I think heacknowledged it and readn't and
you know, dudes, right?
And not so many words, we justlooked at each other and it's
like, hey man, and I I let himknow I was upset with him, but
it was it's over.
So but yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Now I appreciate you sharing that um because I had
forgotten I I I had a half therewas like a couple half memories
for me.
I was like, I feel like DocContreras was out with us a
couple times, but it didn't thenit didn't then it didn't make
sense to me because I was like,Well, but but I had Doc Hinkle.
And so uh I appreciate you uhputting putting to bed a couple

(37:18):
of these weird memories that Ihad of you out on a couple of
those missions and uh it beingvery confusing to me.

SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
Yeah, yeah, I was there.
It's weird because like there'sa lot of pictures that I should
have been in, but I wasn't inbecause I was always one place
or the other, so I was alwaysgone, right?
So, or with someone else.

SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
So I'm curious, how long did that last that you were
covering both platoons?

SPEAKER_02 (37:42):
Do you remember?
I want to see the last twomonths or so.

SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Yeah, that's a long time, okay.
Yeah, and and you may be able tospeak to this more again as
medical personnel.
Um, you know, there was thatthat place over on Junction City
that was called combat stresscontrol, and we mostly all
treated it like a joke.
We were like, that's the funnyfarm room where they let you go
in and play with blocks.
Now, I don't actually knowwhatever happened in there, but

(38:07):
we used to talk about like youknow, if somebody was having
issues, there was a handful ofguys who had significant what
what you know in the World WarII you would have called shell
shock.
And it sounds like maybe maybe Ididn't know this about Hinkle.
This is I'm just hearing thisstory for the first time, but it
sounds like that's maybe that'swhat Hinkle had.
What was the protocol?
Did anybody help him out, or didhe just sit and stew in his

(38:30):
emotions?
I I don't know what whathappened.

SPEAKER_02 (38:33):
Well, he's he stayed there.
Well, remember, we lost DocNabby too.
Yes, remember they had for avery different reason, but yes,
uh on the bridge, but uh yeah,and and what in retrospect, I I
don't know per se what happenedwith Brian.
Uh I just recall him just beingmoved, and then I I want to see
he Blake.
I don't remember if he stayedwith you guys in the hooch or

(38:53):
not after that, but uh maybe hemoved to HS and then he was he
he stayed with HS for theremainder of the tour.
But uh yeah, uh now what I lookat now is it, yeah, we kind of
we we look at that like uh yeah,the funny form, right?
But uh it was we were still inthe early days of understanding
what we had forgotten fromVietnam and World War II.

SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Yeah, it was us joking and beingassholes, but realistically,
like some of these dudes couldhave used a little bit of
treatment and probably couldhave got right back on the
battlefield had they had justsomebody to talk to for a minute
and process things.
And our standard was go talk tothe chaplain, which don't get me
wrong, for a lot of Marines anda lot of sailors, I imagine
talking to the chaplain is verycomforting, but for some people

(39:38):
it's not gonna help, and theyprobably need to speak to a
mental health professional or atleast somebody who understands.
So that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
I thought I didn't know where I didn't even know he
got separated, but that's uh II'll be honest, I don't remember
I don't now that you're sayingit, now there's there's this
like a shadow of a memory of allof this, but I mean to your
point of it being towards theend of the deployment, at that
point the tempo was so intensethat I was not really paying

(40:12):
attention to the mash like if itif it didn't affect me directly,
um not that not having a dockwouldn't affect me, but if if
you were covering dock, I wouldhave would have been like,
great, let's roll.
And so I don't remember um whatwhat exactly happened there.

SPEAKER_02 (40:30):
So yeah, you know, I'd like to see.
I mean, he he rebounded, right?
I mean, he was able to finishout his Navy career.
But I think a lot of that, youknow, from the first one and
then the second one, he I don'tthink he ever fully recovered.
You know, uh there's actually afew of us that have that are
still in.
I think Jason Cade Hill, he uhhe's still active duty senior

(40:52):
chief now.
He was uh I want to say FoxCompany or golf company.
And then uh you guys talked toDoc Bundy.
He ended up, I want to say,retiring as a chief.
So but yeah, a lot of us, youknow, were able to, I guess,
find that help and and uh thosethings.
But uh I think sub subsequentlyDoc just af after that, after
Ramadi was was pretty much forhim, right?

(41:14):
He didn't deploy again and theyended up uh just getting out of
the service.

SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
Yeah.
How everybody processes uheverything is just endlessly
we've been finding this with thepodcast too, is just listening
to everybody dealt with it verydifferently in the in the
moment, and then we've all dealtwith it very differently
subsequently too.
Um and uh unfortunately for us,it was in the early early part

(41:40):
of all of it, they didn't haveno one had any real appreciation
of what was going on, how todeal with it.
Um there wasn't much space forit.
And uh fortunately things haveprogressed enough that I think
it's a little bit better.
I don't know.
Obviously, I'm not in themilitary now, but I I I think
there's a little bit more spacefor it.

(42:01):
But I know um, at least maybewith age, uh giving more uh a
lot, you know, giving space foreveryone of being like, you
know, that wasn't some intenseshit.
And um how have you dealt withit is a is a really important
part of the conversation to makesure you're the best version of
yourself.

SPEAKER_02 (42:21):
Yeah, I think the one of the the stronger points
would be the reintegration,right?
Is you don't pull them fromthat, right?
Uh I think one of the old thingsif we would say is three hots in
a cot, right?
You you get three days of restand then reintegrate with your
with your Marines or your oryour unit, right?
And we found that's to be themost uh the best responses come
from that.

(42:41):
And then there's just some thatjust have that break.
You know, uh, I think theyrecall there was a sergeant that
uh that actually planned to fragthe HQ.
I don't know if you rememberthat guy.
He was uh African American orblack dude.
Uh he was a sergeant, and Ithink Jim caught him singing
psalms or you know, it sounds tomean being a medical
professional now, no more, likehe was bipolar and maybe had a

(43:02):
manic manic break, and that thathe was trying to kill, he
actually had a plan to uh killuh the Marines.
I I think one of his targets wasuh Mr.
Wyler personally, so yeah.
Uh I don't know if you guysrecall that guy or not, but uh
he wasn't there very long.

SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Yeah, I I I would not have been able to pull that
memory up, but that's anotherone that yes, I I I think I know
who you're talking about, too.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:27):
Somebody else mentioned that story of somebody
trying to wanting to frag Wyler,but I I dude, I I didn't
remember that either untilsomebody else brought it up.
It's just not in my yeah, didit's weird how numb you get,
especially towards the end ofthis deployment.
And a lot of people have thatlike two-line thing, like the
Battle of Rumadi was the fourth,you know, fourth, fifth, sixth,

(43:49):
you know, seventh, maybe thetenth.
Like it's just these few days.
And then after that, and it'slike, well, not after that, like
by the time July hit, we wereliterally in a gunfight every
other day, like or every day formany, many weeks.
And by the time you werecovering two platoons, that's
actually why I really asked whenyou were covering two platoons,
is if you were covering it thelast two months, not only was it

(44:12):
130 degrees out on the pavement,and a lot of dudes were dropping
from heat casually.
So I imagine you were stickingIVs in people every fucking day.
But also, we were doing cordonand searches every week or two.
So those were eight to 12 hourops where you're out in the heat
kicking down doors and searchinghouses all fucking day.

(44:33):
And a lot of times those endedor started with gunfights, and
then every other day wasgunfights.
And it, and I mean, lookingthrough just I'm looking at my
list right here is like July14th, the advanced team was
attacked, Captain Rapicolt gotburnt right after that.
The next big thing was July21st, OP Library got blown down.
There was that huge fight atSaddam's Mosque.

(44:55):
Uh, there was a big, uh, hugeeruption in the south of the
city.
Uh, you know, I can just keepgoing, but it's there's uh
engagements every week basicallywere large 12 to 14 hour
engagements where people wereout.

SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
Yeah, and and again, I was I was there for I want to
say all of those for the mostpart, and uh it was difficult.
What what I feared the most was,I mean, I'm sure you recall
taking friendly fire from fromthe army was that crossfire.
Yeah, you know, we'd come intotheir position as we're moving
into our cordon, and these guysgot fucking sandbag things set

(45:31):
up, opened up MREs just layingthere chilling, you know.
And uh I think there's a amemory I have of a Bradley uh
just turning on to uh I think alittle group of insurgents try
to uh enter into a cordon andthen just fucking smoked them
and then they just packed up alltheir gear and left, right?
And they did they left the restfor us.
But yeah, I think the longest Ican recall is maybe 13 hours uh

(45:54):
in in ticks, right?
So maybe the longest gunfight,like straight gunfight with
eight hours between kickingindoors and then uh you know
snatching up people.
But yeah, it was a that wasprobably 13, 14 hour days, 16
hour days.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
Did you have any difficulty keeping dudes going
for those?

SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
Uh no, you know, every every ever I it I feel
when you're there, a lot of itis, you know, everyone comes in,
like I said, you know, dumb andenlisted, right?
Running from something, runningto be something.
I think everyone really held onbecause of everyone else, right?
The shenanigans and shit that wewould do, you know, uh, like you

(46:33):
mentioned, the crazy hugestories, right?
So um, but yeah, uh I I feelstrongly everyone stuck to it.
The only one that we had was Mr.
Stickle.
And Stickle was a peculiarfella, right?
Uh he he's still dealing with uhhis traumas, and a lot of his
traumas now that I know, uh youknow, again in retrospect and

(46:53):
being more mature and havingbeen in medicine for this long.
Uh he had a lot of uhunaddressed traumas prior to the
military.
Uh he was actually a drug pop.
So he he popped on a urinalysisand we ended up taking him
anyways.
And uh to me, I was like, well,is this the kind of Marine we
want to be with?
Yeah, you know, he's on drugs orwhatever.
Um, but he ended up being a uh afierce warrior and a fighter,

(47:16):
even though he did some dumbshit when we were there.
Um, but no, other than him, myall all the guys they stayed in
the fight, you know.
Uh they stayed in a fight, and Ibelieve it was it was for the
guy to your left and to yourright.
Uh it was for nothing else.
And no one really wanted to go,right?
Uh every time I can stillremember map map platoons uh
getting QRF called up andpardoning you guys switching out

(47:38):
trucks and last minute to justto to uh mob up and go out the
fucking wire, right?
And I was like, that's that'sthe kind of shit.
So I didn't I didn't leave.
I didn't I personally did notknow anyone that didn't want to
leave and go out and and fightfor each other.

SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
Yeah.
100%.
I think they one of the one ofthe things that I as as we've
had these discussions I keepgoing back to that we were just
so incredibly fortunate for.
And you doc, you you outlined alot of it.
Um uh but I I think it'simportant to also say that our
officer corps also wanted tofight.

(48:16):
And it it really, really helpedbecause unless you were on camp
guard, and even when you were oncamp guard uh for that week, if
shit if shit went down, peoplerolled out.
It wasn't, you know, peopleweren't you know being like,
Man, I hope we don't have to go.
It was like you're like let'syou know, let's fire up the

(48:39):
trucks and let's roll out, evenif it was your if it was, you
know, it was you're the you'reon the opposite schedule.
And uh I and and as Nylan wassaying, and you were saying too,
it's it's you know that we wereall friends.
We were, you know, weaponscompany was a you know a decent
size, but we all knew each otherreally closely, and we were and
we wanted to go both we wantedto go take the fight to the

(49:01):
enemy, but we also wanted tomake sure that our friends got
back safely.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Yeah, and uh I I can I have one you talk about
officers, uh Lieutenant Dobb.
He was he was my guy, right?
So uh we're only a few monthsapart in age, and I didn't
realize that.
Yeah uh and it's kind of like uhwas that saving private ryan
where everyone's trying tofigure out what the captain did
in his prior life, you know?

(49:28):
That's kind of how I looked atat Derek, right?
It's like what did this guy do?
Because he was always so calmand reserved, and being a senior
enlisted guy and having been tocombat subsequently after Ramadi
and being in the position ofbeing in charge of of personnel
and their true livelihood, orthey're gonna return home.
Uh, I I could not understand theimmense amount of pressure or

(49:51):
stress that that man was underor that Marine.
Uh, and I remember it came to ahead because uh they were
running that little mission.
Jim was his little uh crew of uhof man dresses, and I remember
bearded ladies.
Yeah, the bearded ladies.
I remember him getting into itwith uh Sergeant Major at the
time, uh Booker, because he theywanted to utilize us for a night

(50:14):
mission.
And uh that he just wasn'tfucking feeling that or having
it.
I thought we were gonna losehim.
I thought Kennedy was gonna puthim up on paper and take him out
of the platoon.
And I think that was adiscussion with all of us that
uh because he he's like, fuckthat.
Our guys aren't, we're not,we're not leaving the fucking
wire.
I'm not gonna put my man in thisposition to go out there and so

(50:34):
you guys can get your rocks off,you know.
Um, but yeah, that officer, youknow, if it wasn't for him and
his his uh perseverance, whathe'd he'd gone through, uh I
don't think I'd a lot of uswouldn't be here today.
So thanks for mentioning that.
That that's a big one.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:50):
So it go back, uh I want to kind of bring us back to
um the fact that you were kindof running solo uh as often as
you were.
Um what do you what do youremember of uh of the
differences between the two ofthe two uh platoons?
Did you see it?
Did you see a difference betweenhow Sledgehammer ran and uh

(51:13):
Rainmaker ran?

SPEAKER_02 (51:14):
Well, I mean Sledgehammer pretty much had
Sergeant Major or uh nowSergeant Major Cook.
That dust delight.
Right, you know, staff sergeantcook.
Yeah, staff sergeant cook.
Uh and Dobb was for you know uhRainmaker.
It it was that differencebetween the mindset of staff and
CO or staff and CO Corps andthen Officer Corps, you know, uh

(51:36):
and the way they fought and theway that they they moved the
platoon was a lot different, youknow.
Uh and the way we even even toyou know learning knowing about
the good old O Sniak and Bamsis,right?
Those good old everybody, thosegood old things is is is in
retrospect and having talkedabout those battles and and and
worked through them um becauseuh yeah, it really gave more

(52:01):
insight.
Uh and of course we talk shitabout you know uh uh
sledgehammer all the time,right?
We always called you guys the Bteam.
But I was like, hey, I'm overthere with the B team.
But no, it it was just thedifferent, it was a different
group of personalities, right?
And but they still fought justas fierce, right?
And and and not take anythingaway from uh you know the um the

(52:22):
sledgehammer, but uh yeah, therewas definitely a difference.
I I've and I felt thedifference, the energy was
different, right?
It was a different line of NCOs,a different uh different style
of leadership.
So uh when it came to engagementuh and reactiveness, it would
there was a difference, but uhagain, I I wouldn't choose one
over the other.

SPEAKER_01 (52:40):
So no, I I was uh even even at the time I was
hyper aware of how much we wereasking of a couple of our um
staff NCOs being put in in acommander role.
Um and uh I mean uh you're yeah,I think you kind of were

(53:01):
touching on it, the idea thatyou know, fortunately the Marine
Corps structures itself in a waythat says, you know, everyone's
a leader and we're gonna teacheverybody how to command and
control that, you know, eventhough you know, as an NCO, you
know, you might have to be incharge of the platoon um if if
if shit goes sideways.

(53:22):
And so uh it it makes sense thatthey were able to say, Hey, uh
uh I need you to run theseplatoon guys.
Um, but I still knew that thatwas a huge ask.
And um it'll be it would beinteresting to be able to talk
to some of the guys eventuallyabout what that meant and the

(53:44):
stressors that were uh of ofbeing being a a commander in
combat when you were uh a staffNCO.

SPEAKER_02 (53:52):
So yeah, and again, like I had alluded to before
that I don't think you guys giveyourself enough credit as that
NCO, uh that first line battleuh engagement, right?
I mean that really shaped thefight, is the calls, and then
the staff NCO and officer havingthe the trust in their NCO
because my two guys were uh uhSergeant Garcia and then uh

(54:14):
Sergeant Layton, right?
And then you of course, Blake,where you were at.
Um sorry, Shane, I I did alittle work with you guys, but
that's all right, you know, justyou know, I I could not imagine
that immense amount of pressurebecause doctors did whatever the
fuck Doc wants, right?
Like Doc, you know, uh I waspretty much very just I lived
vicariously through you guys,you know, and I just responded

(54:36):
to where I was uh told to goessentially.
So um, but yeah, in retrospect,looking back and then been
through these uh enlistedacademies and and these NCO
courses and and hearing themtalk about uh battle and then uh
frontline leadership.
That that part of the core isthe that junior NCO.
Um, but that's kind of helpedmodel my my ability to to have

(54:59):
stayed this long, you know.
Uh they call it uh abrasive inthe Navy.
I call it fucking real worldshit, but yeah, it's it's it's
funny.

SPEAKER_00 (55:08):
Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (55:14):
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi
part episode.
Make sure you listen to the restof the story.

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With Gauze and Grit - Rudy Contreras (part 1 of 2)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}With Gauze and Grit - Rudy Contreras (part 1 of 2)