Chris Jeong: Artificial Intelligence—buzzword or game-changer?

Artificial Intelligence—buzzword or game-changer? In this episode of Conversations That Count, I sit down with Chris Jeong from Earlibird AI to break down what AI really is, how it’s shaping the world around us, and most importantly, how you can harness its power in your everyday life.

From boosting productivity to making smarter business decisions, Chris shares insights on the practical uses of AI, debunks common myths, and explores what the future holds. Whether you're an AI skeptic or already using it in your workflow, this conversation will give you a fresh perspective on the tech revolution happening right now.

Tune in to learn how to work with AI, not against it! 🚀

#AI #ArtificialIntelligence #Productivity #TechRevolution #ConversationsThatCount

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
All right.
Well, welcome to ConversationsThat Count.
And I've got a very specialguest today.
So Chris from Early Bird AI.
So yeah, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Thank you.
It's great to be

SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
here.
Yes.
And I'll let you maybe just togive a little intro of yourself
and what you do and maybe alittle bit about Early Bird
before we kind of jump into themillion questions that I have
for you.

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Awesome, awesome.
It's always great introducingyourself.
It's like I always don't knowwhat to say.
But look, yeah, so I startedEarly Bird back in February
2024.
So I've been running for almosta year now at the time of
recording, which has beenawesome.
And before that, had a digitalmarketing company for about 10
years doing some marketing forsome of Australia's better
known, I guess, entrepreneurs inthe education and coaching

(00:45):
space, which has beenphenomenal.
And yeah, grew up outside of asmall little country town called
Gympie.
Don't hold it against me.
I love that.
No, it's beautiful.
I think it's great having thatsort of country upbringing.
It wasn't on a big acreage, butit was on some acreage.
You get to see what life isreally like and what it's about.
And then coming down to the GoldCoast here when I was in my

(01:08):
early 20s because it's a littlebit boring up there as time goes
on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
So different.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Exactly.
And so over that time, I'vespent time doing real estate
sales, which has been great.
I had a while actually workingwith kids with disabilities,
which is also a lot of fun andthen from there went into the
digital marketing space which isjust amazing and that's where I
think I found what I love interms of just marketing like you
know solving problems for peopleand finding ways to sort of

(01:33):
communicate the problems and thesolutions in a way that makes
them act is really interestingand then that sort of
transitioned into obviously AIand early bird as well and
that's pretty much what we'redoing where we're very focused
on helping businesses you knowconvert more leads into
customers using AI poweredsystems

SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
I feel like AI is such a hot topic I at the moment
across all industries, bothpersonal and professional life
as well.
Can you maybe just give liketalk through a little bit about
what is AI?
Because I feel like depending onwhere you are at, like in terms
of personal life or evenprofessional, like you've
probably got different exposurepoints to AI.

(02:11):
So what...
is it very loosely

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
yeah absolutely look when most people think about ai
they probably um think of likechat gbt and that's it's a
pretty yeah so why it's so goodhey it's uh it's a good place to
start and it's like a largelanguage model and so
essentially it's not um you knowuh general artificial
intelligence where it's superintelligent and it's aware of
life and everything, but it'swhat's called a large language

(02:36):
model.
And essentially what it does,you can ask any sort of
question, it'll go through allof its database and bring back
some really intelligentresponses back to you.
But it goes beyond ChatGVC,right?
That's one, I guess, platform.
So we have text-based platforms,we have image and video-based
platforms, which you see allthose viral videos like the Will
Smith eating spaghetti video.

(02:56):
I don't know if you've seenthat.
No, I haven't seen that one.
It's a hilarious one.
from back in the day.
But look, essentially, I thinkof AI as just a tool that allows
people to do things a lot morequickly and a lot more
effectively.
And I also think it's a veryexciting tool because it
democratises a lot of, I guess,expertise and knowledge.
So...
In the past, it could be goodand bad, I think, depending on

(03:18):
where you are, but in the past,you might have to spend 10, 15
years in a particular industry.
If we just take digitalmarketing, that's what I'm used
to, it would take time to learnhow to do copywriting, how to
put together offers, how to saythings to influence people, all
those elements there.
But now you can come into thespace without any knowledge and
use AI, and you could be at theequivalent of someone who's been

(03:40):
in there for 5, 10, 15 yearsvery quickly.
And it's the same across a lotof different industries.
You've got law, you've gothealth, all those things.
It's crazy.
So look, fundamentally, peoplethink it's chat GVC, which is a
big piece of AI, but I think ofit as a tool that allows people
to do things quicker, faster, orit's the same thing, and a lot
more easy as well.

SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
Yep.
So how do...
people utilize it?
Like if you think about it froma business context or even the
clients that you have with EarlyBird as well, how do you
actually utilize it in businessand in the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
Yeah, great, great question.
And look, most people start offusing it just with like, you
know, how to write an email,right?
Help me improve this email, thisblog post, this response.
And that's a great first step.
A lot of tools are coming outwith like AI embedded.
So even in like Gmail, you cansort of click these buttons and
it'll help write your emails foryou.
Yeah, exactly, which is great.
So that's like, I guess, levelone, like people start there.

(04:34):
And then when it comes tocompanies like Early Bird, what
we do, we actually build fullend-to-end systems.
So our core product essentiallyis basically like an executive,
basically, where it can handleall the incoming calls or
incoming messages and respond topeople instantly, answer their
questions, qualify them, bookthem in for appointments.
Now, that's all done by AI.

(04:57):
But it's also a lot differentthan just going there and
saying, hey, help me write thisemail too.
So I think businesses can usethis for a number of different
reasons.
ways.
They could use it to qualifytheir leads.
They could use it for improvingtheir systems and processes.
So a lot of tools like Monday,Asana, ClickUp, all those things
that have AI components builtin.
Yeah, look, I think the biggestopportunity, which is why we've

(05:19):
gone this with Early Bird, isthis whole lead to conversion
space because it's difficult tosolve, but once you've solved
it, it becomes very, veryvaluable.
So just to give you an example,we have clients where they're
out in the road, they're doingwork, like whether their tradies
or even just on appointments andthings like that too.

(05:41):
And while they're doing thosethings, AI is actually having
conversations with people whoare inquiring about their
products and services andbooking people in for sales
appointments while they'reworking on other things too.
So they no longer have to stopwhat they're doing and get back
to people or they're don'trespond and lose the lead, AI
can do it all for theminstantly.
So it's very, very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
Are you finding that people are resistant to adopting
AI?

SPEAKER_00 (06:07):
Some.
So it depends if their job's inthe line.
And just speaking of thereality.
So the reality is that AI willhave a disruptive impact on
jobs.
It will replace certain people'sjobs.
They're going to have to retool,reskill.
And that's where we find theresistance.
Last year, there was a lot moreresistance because people were
thinking like, oh, people won'tlike to talk to AI, they'll be

(06:27):
able to tell.
Most people don't even knowthey're talking to AI.
Oh

SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
my God, this happened to me

SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
the other day.
Well, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
I messaged someone in Instagram actually about the
podcast and I think I told youthis and I messaged them and it
was like a big long messagelike, hey, you know, we know
each other, blah, blah, blah.
it responded pretty muchstraight away.
And I was like, gee, that wasquick.
And it was a really well-writtenmessage.
And I was just like, oh, heanswered everything that I asked
him.

(06:56):
Literally 30 seconds later, hesent me a voice note and said,
hey, sorry about that.
That was my AI response.
And he deleted it.
And I was like, if that is yourAI response, That is brilliant.
Like, I couldn't tell.
And normally, I mean, I useChatGPT and you can kind of
sometimes tell a little bit.
That's right.
But I couldn't tell at all.

SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Yep, absolutely.
And we have that exact samereaction or we have clients
having that exact same reactionand passing it on to us all the
time because, yeah, if you'reusing just ChatGPT, that's fine.
But when you train it and youput the time and effort into it,
then it can sound like you'rejust talking to a person.
So, yeah, look, there is alittle bit of resistance or
there has been a little bit ofresistance, mainly coming from
people who are a little bitthreatened with their jobs.

(07:36):
However, I think most businessowners, they're overcoming that
resistance just by necessity.
And the reason being is thereality is costs are going up,
Things are getting expensive andit's getting tight out there for
a lot of different industriesand spaces.
And so naturally, businessowners have to look for ways to
maximize every opportunity sothey don't lose anything or get

(07:58):
a lot more efficient as well.
And so that quickly overcomesanyone's objections because one
example of this was one of ourclients, they're paying someone
80 grand a year just to callpeople who inquire and they can
get an AI solution at a fractionof that price.
And they're all about it.
So it just comes down topracticality.

(08:21):
And I think 2024 was like theyear of discovery for most
people with AI.
I think 2025 is going to be theyear of implementation for AI
with most businesses.

SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
What are some of the trends with AI as well that you
see in the market?
Because like...
Although there's a massiveuplift with AI and people kind
of using it in their everydaylife and business, what are some
of the things that we should belooking for?
And is it also then, becausewe're changing so fast, what's
the evolution of AI as well?

SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Yeah, it's moving very, very quickly.
And even I'm surprised.
So ChatGPT came out to thegeneral public release, I think,
in November 2022.
So it's been...
barely a couple of years andalready people are just so used
to it and they're thinking, oh,it's pretty basic.
And I'm thinking, well, if youthink about that, this is
groundbreaking technology that'scome out literally two years ago
and people are already used tothat now, which is crazy.

(09:11):
But I think the evolution ofthis is we're going to get to
the point where Like right now,we're still interfacing and
talking with AI.
Whether we're texting, whetherwe're talking to it and having
it talk back, that's how weinterface with it.
Where it's going to go to iswhere we're going to have our
own AI agents interacting withother AI agents.
And I guess if you go down thatpath of Neuralink, you could

(09:32):
also just be thinking and goingdown that path there too.
So look, the thing that's goingto happen here is speed is going
to matter because the change ishappening like faster and
also...
there's a lot more change aswell.
So, for example, you canliterally in ChatGPT and also
Google with their app as well,you can have a FaceTime or a

(09:54):
screen recording of the videoand it can talk to you about
what it's seeing.
You can interact and say, what'sthat over there?
And explain.
And so that's huge.
And that wasn't possible six,even nine or even 12 months ago.
And things are just happeningvery, very quickly.
So I think the big trend isliterally adoption.
So people are going to startusing it more.

(10:15):
It's going to become anecessity, not just an
optionality.
Because right now, I thinkbusinesses and people that use
AI are going to have a bigadvantage.
But the thing that needs to bethinking about is how do you
then have an advantage wheneveryone else is using the same
AI as well.
And so adoption is going to bemassive and just continual
change is going to be massive aswell.
So we have to be very, veryadaptable.

(10:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
So I remember like going to a business summit, I
think it was like a couple ofyears ago and the person there
said, if you're not using AIevery day or chat GPT every day,
you're already behind.
Yeah.
So how do, how does somebody useit to get the most out of it at
the same time?

SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
That's a really good question.
So I guess it depends on whatthey're using it for.
But I think the key is use it.
Because one of the things thatI've learned, especially last
year, is just do.
Alex Hormozy calls it proceduralknowledge because there's two
different types of knowledge.
There's knowledge you get fromreading a book or even watching
videos or whatever, learningabout things.

(11:16):
Then there's knowledge you getfrom doing.
And so if people start usingChatGPT or Claude or Gemini, all
these sort of AI tools, you'lllearn so much quicker and you'll
get so much further.
And that's just what Irecommend.
Just start doing it because it'slike also...
Kids would like social media andphones, right?
So you give a kid a phone andsocial media, they're like a
native at it, right?

(11:37):
Because they've grown up usingit and they're so used to it.
Whereas people who grew upwithout it, they sort of
struggle.
So the quicker you can sort ofget in amongst it get
comfortable, the more advantageyou'll get from it.

SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
So what do you use it for outside of business?

SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
Should I ask that question?
I think we were talking aboutthis a little while ago.
Look, I'm not on any datingapps, but I think there'll be a
lot of people using it fordating apps and everything.
But look, typically it's morejust the emails, it's content,
coming up with video ideas, evenlike outlines.
Look, honestly...

(12:13):
The sad reality is for lastyear, especially like much of my
life was just business.
So I haven't really used it muchoutside of that.
But I think, yeah, a lot ofpeople would be using it for
things like, you know, yourdating, just generally replying
back to people, that sort ofstuff too.

SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
All right, let's go.
Let's go there.
How can you tell if you'retalking to someone that has used
AI or chat GPT?

SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
Well, yes, it's difficult.
There's a few things you canlook out for.
If it sounds a little bit toopositive, if it's using a little
bit too many nice words andthings like that, that's usually
just a general giveaway.
But the reason why I say it'sdifficult is because you can
train it to not sound like thatat all.
So we actually, reallyinteresting point.
So I think last year itwouldn't, or as far as I know

(12:57):
anyway, it wouldn't swear in anyof our messages.
We actually had a client requestthis and yeah, we got it in
there and now it's swearing inthe messaging and you would have
no idea so if it's just someonewho's like just putting very
little effort into the AI youknow prompting and saying hey
write me an email you'll be ableto tell because it uses like big
generic words things that'sgoing to make it sound smart a
little bit overly positive andtoo upbeat but if they're using

(13:20):
it intelligently you won't beable to tell which

SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
is kind of scary like it's great and scary at the
same time because you're losingthat human to human connection.
And that's what we were justtalking about as well.
It's like the human behindeverything, right?
So if people are utilizing AI toconnect with people, like what's
the actual negative impact ofthat as well?

SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
Yeah, well, I think there's a lot.
And the other thing too, just tosort of preface this is I think
we just have to be verypragmatic with how we look at
things.
You know, whether you think it'sgood or bad, it is, you know,
and so you have to sort of, playthe game around that so in terms
of like negative things I thinkwe're going to be using our mind
less you know we don't have tosit and think about how we're

(14:05):
going to respond and that'sgoing to have knock-on effects
you know like is how do you thenhave a sit-down conversation
like this if you're just so usedto like AI write me a response
how do I respond to this youknow we'll sort of lose that
sense of just generalcommunication and connection but
That being said, it's also anopportunity because for those of
us who don't do that and forthose of us who want to be a

(14:25):
little bit more ambitious, itbecomes a great thing because
the competition is going to godown because if they get
over-reliance on the AI, I thinkthat's a big negative, a big
potential negative as well,becoming over-reliance on it.
So even for myself, I use itquite a lot, but I still force
myself to still write emails anddo things that, if you don't use

(14:48):
it, you lose it.
So I'll still sit down and craftmy own emails, write out video
scripts and all those sorts ofthings myself.
But then I know that I have theability, if I have a time crunch
or something like that, I needto get things out quickly, I can
use AI to get it done as well.

SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
Which is great.
I've used it for, like I thinkit's great, I've used it both in
personal and business and like alot of my friends are coaches so
if I've got something going on,I've got a really good support
network.
I remember one time I useChatGPT and I was like hey this
is how I'm feeling this iseverything that's going on this

(15:24):
is the situation this is mypattern like what am I missing
like and it was brilliant I saidhow do I actually change that
pattern and it gave me all thisstep-by-step stuff as well for
me to action and And it wasgreat.
Yeah.
And I mean, like, I canunderstand why people would
utilize it in everyday life.
And it does get to know you atthe same time.

(15:46):
It does.
And it stores that in memory,which is good.
So we can say, okay, well, whatabout this or that?
So it can kind of pull back onsome of the other questions that
you asked it as well.

SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
Yeah, 100%.
And yeah, I actually knowseveral people who do that too.
They sort of talk back and fortha little bit about how they're
feeling and sort of it'll coachthem through.
And I've even seen some videoson the internet too where people
start developing an attachmentwith the AI too, like they're
treating it like they'reboyfriend or girlfriend and
things like that too and it'slike might be pushing a little
bit far but it's happening soit's interesting

SPEAKER_01 (16:14):
well I mean that's when that connection piece comes
in place because like you knowand I suppose so many people are
connected to their foreign atthe same time right but yeah
it's like that human connectionwhich I know for me like that's
one of my highest values and soI Yeah, want to see people and
connect with people face-to-faceover a phone.

SPEAKER_00 (16:31):
Absolutely.
And people might say that, look,using AI, you're going to lose
that connection.
But the other thing that itcould allow people to do is
spend more time together havingconversations like this because
they don't have to be spendinghours writing their emails,
responding to people, thosesorts of things too.
Fastback time, hey?
Yeah, it could.
It just depends on how you useit.

SPEAKER_01 (16:48):
How did you get into AI?

SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Great question.
So I've been using it, I think,since July 2021, I think it was.
So before ChatGPC came out.
So I got like an early access,which is really good.
And it was through the digitalmarketing company.
So basically what we're lookingfor is always looking for like
advantages because I guessbefore, especially before,

(17:13):
ChatGPT came out and AI cameout, copywriting was a very
expensive skill to pay for.
So you'd have to pay peoplethousands of dollars, they'd go
meditate in the mountains, spendweeks and weeks and weeks, and
they'd come back with thiscouple of headlines and emails.
And you'd go, yeah, it's good,but I want to change this.
So basically, we're looking forsome ways we can write ads,
landing pages and emails moreeffectively.
And so we started using AIaround there.

(17:35):
And that's actually what reallygot me really interested in it,
was we literally just plugged inone of our clients' existing
products and offers, and AndSimo, you said this is...
what it's all about, what it'sgoing to do.
And it spat out literally awhole landing page, series of
emails, and also a set ofdifferent ads within a matter of

(17:55):
seconds.
And it was probably like 80% ofwhat we needed done.
Back then it wasn't quite asgood as it is now, but still
doing 80% of the work was justmind-boggling.
And I saw that and I was like,no, this is the future.
And since then I've just beenobviously diving right into that
whole space.

SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
How do you stay...
ahead of it at the same time?
Because things are moving prettyquickly.
How do you make sure that whatyou're doing, that technology is
the right one?

SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Yeah, it's actually really...
It's a great question.
So...
It's kind of a bit of twothings.
One is, yes, you've got to stayahead of it, but the other thing
is you also kind of don't haveto stay ahead of it because if
you do stay at the veryforefront, for me, speaking
personally, if I'm at theforefront of what's actually
happening out there, it getsvery overwhelming, and I sit
there going, oh, man, what wejust worked on a few months ago

(18:45):
is like, oh, we need to updatethis, update that.
The reality is, though, thereare still people out there right
now that have never usedChatGPT, right?
And this is the, like, maybe notthe majority, but a large
percentage of people.
I spoke with someone recently,actually, who worked at a big
corporate here in Australia, avery well-recognized insurance
company.
And they were saying, even then,they're starting to bring it in

(19:07):
there, and most people are like,what is this?
And so, look, staying at theforefront is important, but I
kind of try to live between twoworlds.
So one, which is staying at theforefront, and the other one is
back at the present, which iswhere things are right now.
So I'm always out there lookingat new tools and what's out
there and available, but thenalso building bringing it right

(19:29):
back to what's the practical usecase of that?
Because a lot of the realities,a lot of the new tools and new
things are out there right now.
They're just not quite at, Iguess, a point where it's ready
for a business to use.
And so that might be like 80%there where it's like, oh, this
little thing is a littledisappointing as an example.
Like the old AI images with sixfingers as an example back in

(19:50):
the day, right?
And so in terms of how do westay, how do we ensure that what
we're building now remains,like, adaptable for the future.
And it's basically aroundbuilding solutions that are, you
know, very adaptable and openfor other things to plug into.
So whenever we build a solution,we've picked a few platforms
that we believe are going to bearound forever.

(20:10):
So obviously, you've got GVT,Easy Clause, all those elements.
And we have the options and thecapacity of going between them.
So if ever one of them goesdown, we have that redundancy in
there as well.
And we've also built ourprocesses in a way that's, We
can shift if needed.
And so I think if people arelooking at staying at the
forefront or thinking aboutbuilding and implementing AI

(20:31):
solutions, you've got to havethat ability to, I guess, adapt
as things grow.
And so pick platforms that aregoing to be around for a long
time.
So you'll see a lot of ChatGPTclones, all those sort of things
that people are just spinningup.
A lot of the time, they're justliterally people...
putting something over the topof ChatGPT, which is a little
bit sketchy.

(20:51):
So pick the ones that youbelieve are going to be around
for a long time and just beflexible.
And I'd say also use more thanone platform at once.
So again, don't just useChatGPT.
Use ChatGPT and Claude andGemini.

SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
so you mentioned about some like an employee at a
large corporate and imagine ifthey don't need it for their
everyday job they might not usechat gpt and i mean like that's
a massive generalization but forpeople that are listening and
they've like never used itbefore what's something that
they can use it for on a dailybasis

SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
yeah um a lot of things so Kind of like what you
were saying as well, justchecking in on how you're
feeling and maybe some coachingand advice on how to feel
better.
Diet and exercise, it can giveyou entire diet plans, exercise
plans, obviously your emails,those sorts of things there too.
If you are out there on the appsand the dating apps, they can go
and...

SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
No, don't say that.
No.

SPEAKER_00 (21:50):
I'm not listening to that.
I

SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
reject that comment.

SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
What else can we do?
There's a whole bunch of thingslike that is what you can do.
But I think...
probably one of the best thingsto do is actually just ask AI
what it can do.
Because I think that's the otherbiggest limitation I see from
people is they don't realisewhat AI can do.
So they're like looking at thisone little small slice of what's
possible and they just use itfor this.
And they don't realise they canactually do all these other

(22:15):
things.
And if you just ask it, say,hey, actually, can you help me
with this?
And it will tell you yes or no.
And this is how we can do it.
So it could even help you withnegotiation tips.
If you're buying a house or acar or selling a house or a car,
preparing for a job interview,you know, all those sorts of
things.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I've seen people do thisactually where you test yourself

(22:37):
preparing for an interview.
So it'll act like theinterviewer and you'll be the
interviewee and you go back andforth and it gives you
critiques.
This is how you can improve andthen you just go over and over
and over again.

SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's a great tip actually to use it that way as
well.
I didn't realise you could goback and forth that way.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, people, like, if they'rereading a book, then they get
chat GPT to give them a littletest to make sure that they've
actually absorbed theinformation.
Yes.
So if they're reading Alex orMosey or something like that,
go, you know, give me, like, 10questions from the actual book
to make sure that I wasabsorbed.

(23:07):
And then you answer that, like,a little test, and you're like,
okay, cool, I...
Yeah, read it and now I canimplement that information.
That's

SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
it.
Yeah, well, it's all aboutpreparation, right?
So whether you're going for aninterview, trying to land a new
client or whatever it is,deliver a presentation, it's all
about repetition and preparationand so AI will allow you to do
that.
It won't get bored.
You could do it 10, 15, 20 timesif you'd like to as well and,
yeah, it actually gives reallygood advice as well.

SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's great.
So I know that you are, or lastyear, you were very much in the
start-up phase of early birthand you were doing some massive
hours.
Crazy hours.
Crazy hours.
What's your drive behind that aswell?
So what keeps you going and foryou just to continuously...

(23:54):
um show up on yeah

SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
yeah it's a good question actually um look i
think there's a few things umobviously you know family so my
mom is very important and youknow as as parents and and as
parents do and we all do we getolder and um have needs and
things like that too so i wantto make sure she can have a um
as comfortable a time aspossible as you know she gets
older and goes through the wholeprocess um you know also i guess

(24:21):
like um You know, animals is mybig thing.
So I like to sort of donate to alot of like animal charities and
things like that too.
So I want to just try to, Idon't know, leave the world a
little bit better than how Iarrived in it, if that makes
sense.
But also another thing thatdrives me is, you know, it's a
bit of fear.
And it's like the fear and I sitthere going, man, I think the

(24:42):
window of opportunity isclosing.
Now, it's not to say there's notgonna be any opportunity.
There's always that.
But we're in such a goldenopportunity time right now.
So I'm trying to race and get asmuch as possible while the going
is good, if that makes sense aswell.
And I think there's a sense ofurgency of, I don't know how

(25:02):
long it's going to be.
It could be a year, it could betwo years, whatever that period
of time is.
And just trying to do that whilethe opportunity is there.
So I think that sort of is a bigdriver.
And just making sure I don'tlook back in regrets.
Because, you know, we've all gotthose actually regrets, right?
So I should have bought Bitcoinat 300.
I should have gotten into socialmedia like ages and ages ago.

(25:24):
I should have had all thosesorts of things.
And for me, like, you know, I'm36 right now.
So I've seen obviously...
Early days was like the websitesand internet revolution, social
media revolution and cryptorevolution and even some like
real estate things too.
And it's like you go, hmm, thatwas some great opportunities.
I could have taken that, that,that, that, that, but didn't.
And so you want to really, well,for me, I'm really wanting to go

(25:44):
hard at this opportunity whileit's here because again, like
everything, they only have alimited cycle where it's, you
know, the golden hour, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
Like you're around a lot of, business people and i
know that you've got like youknow you've you've come from
that as well business and you'rein that startup phase now do
what are the qualities do youthink that make people
successful in what they're doing

SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
that's a good question i think um resilience
and just persistence i think isis that and focus and so um like
the reality is um you know ispeak pretty lightly of it but
last year was probably one ofthe hardest and most challenging
years of my entire life uh eventhough things are like you know
there's a lot going on it wasextremely tough and challenging

(26:35):
and so during that time you justhave to stick and persist even
when things are difficult Andthe other thing, too, is really
focusing in.
So with Early Bird, we startedoff when we first launched with
a model that we'd helpbusinesses with called the ACDC
model, which is attract,convert, deliver, and collect,
which is basically like a fullhand-to-end.

(26:55):
We'd basically say we can doanything for your business,
which we could, right?
And that's the reality.
But the problem is when you'redoing everything and anything...
it gets very difficult becauseyou can't get any sort of
systems in place.
It's very difficult to scale allthose things.
And so the more that we've cutaway and focused in on certain
problems and certain products,the better things have been

(27:17):
becoming.
And so I think another qualitywould also just be action
because I think I thought priorto last year I was acting in
business and doing things inbusiness, but last year, to your
point, I was working– Yeah.

(27:44):
they stick, right?
Because you look at all thepeople, whether it's in the
network I've got or justbusiness people in general, they
say it takes 10 years to createan overnight success.
So you look at where they areright now and you go, wow, that
business they just did last yearor a few years ago was really
successful.
What you don't see is all theother ones they've done leading
into it.
And so they've stuck with it andthey've persisted and they've

(28:06):
remained focused as well.
Another thing too is actingregardless of how you feel.
Um, and so I get this a lot fromlike, you know, Alex Hormozy,
even Layla Hormozy as well.
They both have some things.
And, uh, I think it's Layla thatsays it really well.
It's like, you know, it doesn'tmatter how you feel.
Like, you know, you can still,like if you act a certain way,
uh, whether you feel good orbad, like you're not, you're

(28:26):
feeling your, your action.
And so, you know, it's lastyear, especially for me, like
the amount of things I was likeacting, even when I wasn't
feeling like doing that.
Um, I think that's really whatdetermines success or not.

SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
I think people wait for motivation, which is a
feeling, and feelings can comeand go.

SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
They do.

SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
And you just have to have the discipline and the
consistency and, as you said,the focus to actually show up
regardless.
And sometimes it's hard to dothat as well.

SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
Exactly.
Often it's very hard because theother thing too, the reality is,
especially if you're going intobusiness and entrepreneurship,
it can be very lonely.
You know, so you have timeswhere, you know, team needs
things from you, clients needsthings from you, whatever, all
those things and you're like,well, you know, you're sort of
there.
It can get quite lonely.

(29:16):
The one person.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
And so you've just got to act nomatter how you're feeling.
Yeah.
Because, I mean, if you justthink about it on a more
personal note, if you're in arelationship, you go, oh, you
know, I felt like making you acup of coffee this morning.
Yes, yes.
You know, other half and, theycan go, oh, that felt not, you
know, good on you for feelinglike that.

(29:37):
But did you do it?
And it's like, no.
But if you made them a coffee,even if you felt like rubbish,
like that, is what actuallycounts.
It's like what you did, not howyou felt.
Because, you know, you can havethe best of intentions, but if
you don't act on them, then itcounts for nothing.
And I think it's even moreimportant now with AI because,
again, businesses have to act.

(29:58):
People have to act.
We're going through like amonumental shift that I don't
think many people really, youknow, they're not really aware
of.

SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Yeah, that's true.
So what shifted...
for you from last year to alsonow and has that mindset shifted
for you as well

SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
yeah so it has so the beauty of it is um when you
go through the hard hardchallenging times because
there's you know we've made alot of mistakes and stuff like
you know we're far from perfectright um but you go through and
you realize yes you can right umyou can go through that because
you're sort of I would doubt, ohman, how would I feel when that
happens?
Then when you realise, you justgo through and you do it and you

(30:42):
go, wow, I can now do that.
But definitely the focus hasbeen a big one.
So I said it before, we startedoff doing everything.
Now we have three core productswe sell.
And the more that we focus in onthat, the better we've gotten at
those three core products andthe better the results have
been.
And then that then allows likesystems and processes.
You know, the team isn't asconfused.

(31:04):
They know what they need to donow.
And they don't always have tocome to me or someone else on
the team for questions.
They know what they need to do.
So realistically focusing in,cutting out more than, you know,
cut things out is actuallybetter.
It feels, well, it felt reallybad for me.
I was like, surely, you know,the more we do, the better it's
going to be.
But actually it's the opposite.

(31:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, focus, sticking power, andjust knowing that no matter how
you feel.
You just have to do.

SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
Yeah.
There's a lot of contradictoryadvice, I think, when it comes
to that about like going broadand then niche down.
And, you know, it's like whenyou're a new business, like you
don't want to say no in a waybecause you don't know exactly
like, will my message stickhere, here or here?
Will they want this product orthis product or this product?
And so it's kind of like, whatshould you actually do?

(31:52):
And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Oh, well, so, well, again, I am far from perfect,
but I believe like at thebeginning, go broad if you have
to, right?
but the key is to act.
And so I think of it like as, ifwe arms out like 180 degrees, as
long as you're moving somewherein this forward direction, even
if you go like that, that way,like completely like at 179 out
of 180 degrees, then you'lllearn, you'll hit a wall because

(32:16):
you'll get to the point whereyou can no longer go down that
path.
Right.
And then you go, okay, cool.
Now what I'm going to do.
So then you stop, you reorientand you go forward.
So it's kind of like a zigzag.
Yeah.
And, what I've found anyway isthat the more you act and the
more you keep on going, thezigzag gets smaller and smaller
and smaller.
So like you go through thehighs, the lows, the highs and
lows and each and every timebecause you learn, you know,

(32:38):
from doing and I'm assumingyou're going to stop and think
and do things a little bitdifferently.
Yeah.
Things get a little bit morefocused.
So I think if you're justgetting started out, just do
anything.
Start broad.

SPEAKER_01 (32:48):
The data, right?

SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
That's right.
And then you'll adjust becausefor us, if we started off with
what we had right now, I don'tthink we'd be here because, you
know, we wouldn't know how tocommunicate that back in the
early days.
We're still figuring things outand everything too.
You've got to, in my view,you've got to go through that
process.
And, um, I think it's also justa life cycle.
Yeah.
I think, you know, for mostbusinesses, you're just going to

(33:10):
go through that.
And you

SPEAKER_01 (33:11):
pivot.
And I think when it, when itcomes to it, like people go,
I've made that decision.
I have to stick with thatdecision now.
And I think when it comes tobusiness, especially actually in
any, any context in life, right.
By you making a decision and, Itdoesn't mean that that's your
only decision because then youget to that point and go, okay,
now I can make another decision.

(33:32):
And you can pivot and you canchange like as many times as you
want as well throughout thatwhole process.
And that's the whole point ofactually the momentum and the
doing is because then you getthe feedback.
That's it.
Then you can go, okay, cool,this is my next step.

SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
That's it.
And the only time that's amistake and it's wasted is if
you stop.
Because if you keep on going,you're going to keep on learning
and pivoting and learning andpivoting and you'll eventually
figure it out and find thatthing there too.

SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Yeah, we've learned that now with Katie and I with
our business that we wereprobably more generalized and
now we're niching.
And it gets clearer with themessaging and who we're talking
to as well and what we'reactually offering.
But at the start, we were like,okay, cool, this is what we want
to create.
Now we've got to work out thehow.
And so we're now at that pointas well, which is really good.

SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
That's it.
It's more clarity.
It is.
And I think like, you know,especially in entrepreneurship
and business, like we're alloptimists and, you know, we make
our best educated guess and youtest it out as to what's
actually there and you adjustaccordingly.
And, you know, you wouldn't bewhere you are now if you hadn't
acted and continued back then.
I think

SPEAKER_01 (34:34):
that's like a really brilliant lesson is that you
learn through the doing andthrough the failures and people
see failure as a bad thing.
But failure is actually a greatthing and there's so much at the
moment around, you know,experimenting.
And the more that youexperiment, the more that you
go, okay, yes, let's go this wayor no, that didn't work.
And the more that you can kindof throw at that, the more data

(34:57):
that you'll have to make thatdecision.

SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Big time.
But even just like diving intolike what is failure?
Yeah.
if you've made it, if you'vegone down this path and it's not
working, is it really a failureor is it just a lesson?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Cause I mean like, you know,have you failed?
It's like Edison had his, youknow, um, that quote was like, I
haven't failed 10,000 times.
I've just found 10,000 waysthat, you know, not to create a

(35:19):
light bulb.
You know, I know the numbers arenot right, but you know, that
whole general sentiment, youknow?
And so, yeah, I, I don't view,um, things like pivoting and
making mistakes as failures, Ijust view them as lessons.
I think that's the right way togo.

SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
Speaking of lessons, like what have been your biggest
life lessons that you can, orpivotal moments for you of like
change as well?

SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
Well, there's been a lot, I think.
So first, obviously, you know,parents splitting up when I was
10.
It was obviously a big changebecause I was growing up here on
the Gold Coast and that then ledto the shift up to the country.
And so that was a very pivotalmoment, which I think very
difficult at the time and, youknow, completely different
timeline.

(36:02):
But so that's definitely onething.
The other one was also shiftingfrom, like, being an employee to
actually going out on my own inbusiness.
And that's...
It's difficult, kind of likewhat we were talking about just
beforehand as well, just interms of when you don't have
that sort of job you've got toshow up to, you don't have that
sort of set of boxes you've gotto check, there's a period of
time when you sort of lock offin the wilderness and you've got

(36:23):
to try to figure out what theheck you need to do.
So that's definitely a bigpivotal time as well.
And I've got to say also, yeah,the Early Bird founding last
year was also massive because itjust took, I was doing pretty
well with the digital marketingside of things, but this has
taken things to the next leveljust in terms of the work, the
lessons and all those elementsthere too.

(36:45):
And that I've got to say is justthe people I've got around me.
I'm very fortunate with peoplewho I know, people in my network
and they're pivotal.
I can't shout them out enough.
They're awesome.
And there's too many to namebecause every single person, no
matter how big or small, theyall actually play a big part.

UNKNOWN (37:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
And that's what it's all about too, right?
Is having the network around youand the people around you to
support and share as well.
Because if you don't have that,what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
Yeah, that's right.
Exactly.
And that's actually reallyinteresting too because last
year people were also saying,just to give a bit of context, I
was sleeping on average likefour hours a night last year for
most of the year.
Not all year, but most of theyear.
And people go, well, what's thepoint?
What are you doing this for?
And ironically, it was actuallyfour hours.
you know, the people.
Because it's like, hey, I wantto be able to be a support for
people in my network.
I want to be able to spend moretime with people in my network

(37:40):
and all those elements theretoo.
But I think also like whenyou're starting something new,
you've got to push a little bitharder to then be able to coast.
It's like, you know,bodybuilding, which clearly I'm
not into bodybuilding, butyou've got to bulk up.
Maybe it's a goal for this year.
Well, there you go.
Maybe.
Yes, right.
Exactly.
But you've got to bulk and thenyou maintain, right?
And during that bulk phase,you're working a lot extra,

(38:02):
you're eating a lot more, allthose elements.
But then after that, you canmaintain.
And so last year especially wasthat acceleration mode, which is
ironically for you know, thepeople and, you know, network
and family and things like thattoo, so.

SPEAKER_01 (38:16):
And I think also, like, we all have seasons of
life and we have differentpriorities and they change.
So for you, you're in adifferent season to what you
probably are now and that'swhere probably communication
comes into play as well andactually communicating that to
the people around you to say,hey, I love you.

SPEAKER_00 (38:35):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
This is my priority at the moment.
This is my focus.
Like, You just need to letpeople know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Big time.
And also it's self-selection forpeople too because people who
really do want the best for you,they'll support it.
I just look at balance a littlebit differently.
So a lot of people go, I'm goingto work five days a week to have
two days a week off and a coupleof weeks off a year.
I'm thinking I'm going to workreally hard for two to three,
four years, whatever that periodof time is, and then have the
rest of my life.
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (39:03):
Do the hard work now.

SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
exactly.
Have a hard...
Hard life now for an easy lifelater.

SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
Yeah, correct.
Rather than the other wayaround.
The other thing too is with noexpectation of the easy life
either.
So I think, you know, especiallynow, it's actually good to chase
the hard just for the sake ofchasing the hard, right?
Because if you just, in my view,if I'm just trying to work hard
for the next couple of yearsexpecting life to get easy
afterwards, you know, I don'tthink that'll work because, you

(39:31):
know, it's very difficult.
So I'm just like, no, no.
chasing the heart no matter whatand if things get easier and
better great I'll still maintainnot to the same level yeah but
yeah

SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
I wonder though because then would you actually
stop and this is something thatI've been playing around with at
the same time so right nowyou're so driven and you're in
that mindset you want you have agoal that you want to achieve
right when you get to that levelor when you achieve that goal Is
it just ingrained in you,though, that you just then want

(40:01):
to go for the next thing?
So, like, is there, like, I getlast year was a season for you
and you were really ramping upand full focus there, but it's
also you.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
that's right.
I think there'll be an elementof that.
But I think what the goals arewill shift and change.
Eventually it's like have afamily and then it's like, okay,
cool, then it shifts into thosethings there too.
So, yeah, I don't think that thedrive will ever go away and, you
know, I think it's justsomething that, especially if
you're in entrepreneurship andbusiness, you just have.
It's like a game.
That's the thing.
So you just want to keep onplaying.

(40:33):
But what can happen there is youcan shift your goals and your
attention and focus.
I'd like to have a good balanceof family and business
eventually, but at the sametime, I've got to get to that
point where that's possible.

SPEAKER_01 (40:46):
I'm excited for you for that stage of life too.
So come back to some tips aswell.
So if somebody is employed, andI know that you gave examples of
what they can do for theirpersonal life.
So if someone is employed, howcan they utilize AI for their
work?

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
Yeah, so it's a really good question.
So first and foremost isobviously the chat TV team,
right?
Using that for whatever you needto do.
So I guess one thing I'd sort ofgive there is like a bit of a
general prompting tip, right?
So whether you're looking tonail the interview, whether
you're looking to nail theemail, whatever it is you need
to do with AI in general, butparticularly chat GPT, is ask it

(41:28):
for whatever you need to get.
And then no matter what you getback from the AI, say this is
great, but if this is a 5 out of10, let's dial it up to an 8 out
of 10.
You can go a 9 or a 10 if you'dlike to.
Yes, and so what will happen isthe AI will take whatever it's
got and just ramp it up to thenext level and you can repeat
that as many times as you'dlike.
Don't do a 10 out of 10 becauseif you do that, the world will

(41:49):
explode.
But definitely like an 8 or a 9out of 10.
And so if you're an employee orwhatever it is you're doing,
business, all those things, thatone little promise will actually
really drastically improveeverything.
So I'd definitely do that.

SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Okay.
If you are a business owner,what's your suggestion there?

SPEAKER_00 (42:10):
Yeah, 100%.
You have to be using andadopting AI in the business.
And there's a lot of differentways you can do this.
So from an early birdperspective, we're obviously
helping businesses with the leadto conversion rate because
basically people now, consumers,they're not patient.
They expect answers instantly 24hours a day, 7 days a week.
So basically installing asystem, which obviously we can

(42:31):
do, that engages with leadsstraight away, qualifies them,
answers any questions they'vegot, books them in for an
appointment and then followsthem up.
Absolutely doing that.
Whether you use a system likethat or not, you need to be
bringing it into your businessso that you can do things for
project management, you can dothings for inventory management,
documentation and videos.
If you're in business, you haveto start using it and It's

(42:53):
beyond just ChatGPT.
So it's actually taking AI andputting AI systems in place.
That's an absolute must.

SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
Would you even suggest that someone that is
like a solopreneur as well, ordoes it depend on the size of
your organisation or business?

SPEAKER_00 (43:08):
Yeah, no, absolutely everybody, right?
But the reason you're going todo it is different, right?
So if you're a solopreneur,you're going to be doing it
because you need to maximise allof your time, right?
And you have limited resourcesand you can't pay a lot of
people to help you out.
So that's why you're going touse it there.
If you're a more establishedbusiness doing like really 10
million plus, five or plus,whatever the thing is, you're
looking for efficiencies, right?

(43:28):
How do you get more profit outof your revenue.
So I think, yes, every businessneeds to be doing it regardless
of whether you're a solopreneurall the way up to like a massive
corporation, but the reasons forit is going to be a little bit
different.
And so that might influence, Iguess, where you start.
So for example, again, if youare sort of getting started to
more like in the growth andscale phase, you might want to

(43:48):
start with the lead generationsystem potentially.
If you're looking at like morelike established corporation,
you might be looking at moreefficiency to the project
management and elements likethat.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really good tipsthere.
Yeah, the key is just to start.
Okay.
Yeah, and if you are getting anyresistance from people on the
team...
ignore it you just have to youhave to get it going and so and

(44:11):
also the other thing too I'd sayis also upskill your employees
too to offer some training tothem on how to use AI because if
you can make them more efficientand more capable with AI so key
example this is one of theclients we've trained their team
their social media team on howto use AI to create posts better
all those other things there tooand that's then freed them up
now to do video and theycouldn't do it in the past

(44:33):
they've wanted to do it for avery very long time but the
videos are absolutely crushingit but they just didn't have the
time to have the creativity tothe editing and all those
elements because I was spendingso much time writing social
media posts writing blog postsand all those elements there too
so teach your team how to use AIand implement AI systems in the
business

SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
so you gave a prompt a minute ago just in regards to
like how can you take it from afive to higher yes what other
prompts do you have

SPEAKER_00 (44:58):
yeah so I guess probably the best thing would be
just the framework it's the CTLframework so I call it the
control framework so basicallyit's give the AI context for
what it's about to do becauseyou know in your head what you
want, why it's doing it and, youknow, yeah, I guess the reason
for the task but the AI has noidea and so if you can give it
that context, that'd be great.

(45:20):
Then you want to give it thetask itself and then you want to
give it any limitations.
So for an example, this couldbe, you know, I'm preparing for
a job interview at XYZ companyand, you know, my experience is
xyz so this is the context rightyou're giving it the background
then the task is um design a setset of interview questions that

(45:40):
we can role play right that'sthe task the limitations could
be um look i want each questionto be um like really easy right
or if you're writing an email itcould be like a you know 200
words or less as an example soif you follow that framework
with all of your prompts you'llget you know, massive
improvements because a lot ofthe time people will just give
it the task, right?
Or they'll just give it thelimitations and all those things

(46:02):
there too.
And another one, um, this is,this is, uh, this might sound a
little bit harsh.
Remember you're talking to anAI.
So the other thing too is, um,so the goal of this, right, is
to, so let's just say you'rewriting an email, right?
Cause this is something that Ithink a lot of people can
resonate with.
Um, when it comes to writing thesubject line for an email, you

(46:25):
might want to say, look, thesubject line, if 99 out of 100
people who read the subject linedon't open the email, this would
be regarded as a completefailure.
So just that little phrasingthere is enough to really make
the AI work really, really hardand it's very, very effective.
So I use that in combinationwith the CTO framework and also

(46:48):
the other one there too, the 5out of 10, And a few other ones
there too.
But yeah, it takes the promptsinto the next level.

SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
I'm going to use them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Write those down.
Let me know how you go.
Yeah, we'll do that.
Yeah.
Just a couple of last questions.
So what's a piece of advice thatyou would give your younger
self?

SPEAKER_00 (47:06):
Yeah, definitely act and don't be afraid of what
other people are going to thinkor what they're going to do.
And, you know, just act.
Act faster is really what itcomes down to.
Especially after this last year,I wish I was doing this back
when I was in my 20s.
Just acting because back thenI'd be reading more books and
learning that way.

(47:26):
And it's important to readbooks.
I'm not saying don't read booksand don't learn and don't do
those things because they'reuseful.
But you'll learn a lot fasterand a lot more deeply by
actually doing.
So don't just think about whatyou want to do.
Do what you want to do.
That's right, exactly.
And don't stop taking the actiontoo.
Because The other thing tooactually is when you first

(47:47):
start, nothing's going to workand you're not going to see any
results.
You have to keep on going for aperiod of time before you start
seeing the results.
So act and then don't stop.

SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
Yeah.
And then also, who's yourbiggest inspiration at the
moment?

SPEAKER_00 (48:05):
That's a tough one.
That's a really tough one.
Look, I've got a lot.
So...
Obviously, my mum, right?
First of all, it's very, verymotivating.
But I think people like Adam andEric and even Josh, who's also
in the team there too, get a lotfrom them.
I mentioned Alex and LeilaHomozy earlier as well.

(48:26):
They're absolutely phenomenalcoaches.
But look, I try to drawinspiration from literally
everybody, right?
So no matter how big or small,whether it's a positive or a
negative thing, if I have anegative interaction with
someone or something, it'sinspiring me to get better,
right?
That's right, exactly.
And if it's a positive one aswell, actually, I'd be remiss to

(48:48):
also Wayne.
Wayne, very good guy.
I think the people in my life isdefinitely that.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (48:55):
I love that.
And then what's one questionthat you were hoping I would ask
that I haven't asked that youwanted to share?

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
Where should I send it?
No.
It's a good question.
Look, I don't know if there isone.
I think it's been a greatconversation.
I think we've covered a lot ofdifferent things.
No, I can't think of any.
Yeah.
It's been good.
Is there anything you can thinkof?
No, that

SPEAKER_01 (49:20):
was a lucky last question for you.

SPEAKER_00 (49:22):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (49:23):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for thetime to join me on the podcast,
Conversations That Count.
And yeah, I'm looking forward togetting feedback from the
audience as well.
And yeah, I'm sure there'll beother chats in the future too.

SPEAKER_00 (49:37):
It's a pleasure.
And yeah, I hope everyone'senjoyed.

SPEAKER_01 (49:39):
Yeah.