Chris Payten: The Breathwork Revolution and Unlocking Your Inner Potential

In this episode of Conversations That Count, I’m joined by Chris Payten, co-founder of Infinity Training and Coaching and a passionate breathwork instructor dedicated to helping others unlock the power of their breath.

We explore the incredible connection between breathwork and nervous system regulation, diving into how this simple yet profound practice can help you manage stress, improve mental clarity, and regain control in moments of overwhelm. Chris opens up about his own journey, how breathwork has transformed his life, and the breakthroughs he’s witnessed in his clients.

Chris shares his mission to empower individuals to harness the potential of their breath, offering actionable insights and tips to help you reconnect with your body, calm your nervous system, and live with more intention and resilience.

If you’re ready to explore how your breath can transform your life, this conversation is one you don’t want to miss.

Tune in now to learn how to regulate, reconnect, and thrive!

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
to the podcast of Conversations That Count.

(00:02):
I'm Gianne and I'm joined herewith Chris as well, who is a
owner and the trainer atInfinity Training and Coaching.
So I'm super excited about thistopic and breathwork and talking
about all things coaching.
of what is breathwork and how wecan utilize it in our daily
life.

(00:23):
And it's been such a pivotalmoment for me in my journey and
what I've done to date as well.
So welcome.
I'm excited to have you here.
So maybe to kick off, if youwant to just talk a little bit
about your company and what youdo and also about what is
breathwork.
So for anyone who is unfamiliarwith the term breathwork and

(00:47):
Yeah, like what actually is it?

SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
Yeah, cool.
Thanks for having me on.
Super excited.
I'm Chris, co-founder with mypartner, Shani of Infinity
Training and Coaching.
So we run a breathworkcertification training company.
So we help people learnbreathwork, get certified in
breathwork, and then we actuallyspend time beyond the
certification process with them,helping them build their
coaching business.

(01:09):
That was a little bit of a gapthat we saw in the certification
realms of just not knowing thenext steps to take.
And so our program really takestakes them from the education to
the certification and beyond.
We've been doing it for aboutnine months now, this business,
and it's been...
super amazing to expand on justbecoming a breathwork

(01:30):
facilitator into a trainer aswell and being able to give this
back what is breathwork it'sessentially the conscious
manipulation of your breath youcan use your breath in lots of
different ways and each way thatyou use it will have a different
effect on your state of beingand on your nervous system and i
like to say it's like the remotecontrol to your nervous system
and once you know how to use ityou can um yeah, you can shift

(01:53):
states and not get stuck inplaces that you don't want to
be.

SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
So why do you think breathwork is important for that
and nervous system?

SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Yeah, I think the approach to a lot of healing, a
lot of transformation, a lot ofcoaching and mentoring,
everything these days focusestoo much on the mind.
Yeah.
And it misses a big chunk of thepicture, which is the nervous
system and the body.
And once you can really makesense of how the state of your
nervous system affects the stateof your mind, you can make

(02:22):
changes a lot more quickly andthey actually last as well.
It's not like putting a bandaidon.
So cut short, like when you useyour breath, you're quite
literally talking to yournervous system.
And if we can down-regulate ournervous system or up-regulate
depending on what we need, thenwe're going to experience a
different state of mind.
And so it's this tool that'sright here under your nose,

(02:44):
accessible at any time for you.
And yeah, we're reallypassionate about sharing that
with people

SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
and

SPEAKER_02 (02:50):
yeah, so that they know how to use it properly.

SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
I always say that as well that like because I've done
breathwork facilitation coursemyself and also mindset course
as well and you know with my myseparate business but I always
go when yeah you're findingyourself in in a situation where
you are feeling that your body'salways giving you messages right
and we react in the momentthrough our actions but I always

(03:15):
go, come back to your breath toactually come back to a state of
calm.
And then once you're back intothat regulated state, then
that's when the mindset kicks inas well.
Because if you start to makesense of what's going on, you're
still like responding from anactivated nervous system and
you're in hyperventilating orpotentially that as well.

(03:35):
So yeah, I like that as well,where it's breath work and then
mindset.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
Yeah.
I think if we can learn toapproach coaching mentoring even
into the realms of psychologyand things like this and therapy
if we can really combine theboth but pay more attention to
working out someone's physiologyfirst we're going to have a far
better chance at helping themcreate transformation through
behavioral patterns andeverything else as you said
before if your resources aretotally spent on survival good

(04:02):
luck trying to learn good lucktrying to absorb good luck
trying to change patterns likeit's it's just not going to work
yeah um and so when you use yourbreath you know as you said you
can shift your state into acalmer state, a more coherent
state.
And that's when that front partof your brain that thinks
clearly can do what it'sdesigned to do.

SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
And so what was a...
What's inspired you to createthis company and go down the
path of Breathwork?

SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Yeah.
So I...
actually came across Breathworka few years ago, probably three,
nearly four years ago now.
And it was during a really darktime in my life.
And I was going through a mentalbreakdown.
Things were very dark.
I was trying lots of differentthings to try and improve my
mental health and get better.
And nothing was really working.

(04:50):
And I got really, really low tothe point of suicidal ideation.
And it was just, it washorrible.
And it was really dishearteninggoing to different types of
therapy.
I was taking medications likeantidepressants.
I was doing energy healers, likeyou name it, everything in
between.
And I came across a breathworkworkshop one day and I thought,

(05:13):
you know, I have nothing else tolose.
And so I went and did it and itwas, Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
And

SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
so with breathwork, I saw it as a way to, you know,
integrate it into like theperformance stuff that I was
doing, but also to, to helppeople who are struggling
through, you know, deepemotional battles.
And so I'm very, very curiousabout how things work.
And I came out of thatexperience, like what

SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
the

SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
fuck just happened?
What was that?
I was like sobbing for like 30minutes out of the 40.
My body was shaking.
I was having flashbacks fromlike painful memories of my
childhood but I felt reallylight

SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (06:18):
and I couldn't make sense of how I felt lighter in
45 minutes of this than I had inweeks or months of trying to
talk through it yeah and sonaturally I just was like what
is this and I got really curiousI started doing more workshops I
started you know I'm studyingmyself and then yeah it just led
me to multiple different coursesand Then when I met Shani, not

(06:42):
that long ago, she was also abreathwork facilitator.
And I just had this big desireto spread this with as many
people as I could.
And so the first number thatcame to us was like, how do we
help a million lives withbreathwork?

SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
I

SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
thought, well, we're two people, that's going to be
pretty challenging.
And I think I heard somewhereonce that one person can roughly
impact about 5,000 people intheir lifetime, just the one.
And so we're like, okay, well,if we train people in this, then
the ripple effect of that, everyperson we certify roughly

(07:17):
reaches 5,000.
So then that number is only 200.
And you're looking back now,like that's a very, very small
goal.
But

SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
it's still a very powerful goal to have, right?
It is,

SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
yeah.
And I think when we realisedthat, you know, we're 200
certified students and likewe've hit that, so then what's
the next thing?
How can we keep spreading this?
And so that's what reallyinspired me.
I've always loved to teach.
I feel like I'm alive when I'mteaching and educating.
And so it just made sense to go,well, let's put all this
together like let's not just runa business that does breathwork

(07:49):
retreats or workshops like let'sactually teach people let's give
them the certification becausebeyond that whilst it's
beautiful helping people withbreathwork we also get so lit up
watching people come through ourtraining and then go and start
their own businesses or coachingpractices or add it to their
coaching practice and you knowit blows their clients away they

(08:10):
create more success in theirbusiness and they get to live a
life that's more on their termsas a result which is another big
why for me too, seeing people dothings they love and not be
stuck in jobs and occupationsthat they hate and

SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
dread.
It's Breathworks.
I love it and I feel likeeveryone should do it and it's
beneficial daily.
You don't have to just go to anevent and things like that.
And it's interesting, my storyis probably not too dissimilar
to yours where I was at burnoutand I was probably to the point
where I could have gone to adoctor and I was like, this is

(08:47):
not my normal at all.
Like I know for me, I'm notnormally stressed.
I'm not normally anxious.
And it was a daily for me.
Like I was still doing all theright things.
I was exercising, eatinghealthy, like, you know, all of
the stuff.
And I just, yeah, it was thatburnout.
And I was like, okay, what can Ido that's not going to the

(09:08):
doctor and potentially going onprescription medication?

UNKNOWN (09:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
And I started doing research into breath work and
the nervous system.
And I did a workshop, a Wim Hofworkshop.

SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
And it was, like, life-changing because, like, the
lady that ran it, it was allscience-based as well.
Like, the lady that ran it, shedid one of those exercises where
you, I think, you count yourbreaths within 10 seconds just
to see, like...
how many times you breathewithin the minute, right?
I was so shallow with mybreathing and I was like in

(09:42):
hyperventilation state most ofthe time.
I was breathing in my chest.
I was also, my diaphragm was sotight.
I was mouth breathing as well.
And so like that in itself wasjust so eye-opening that I'm not
even breathing correctly yet I'mbreathing to stay alive.
And when you go down the path oflooking at am I living the right

(10:05):
way to actually support myselfevery day?
And majority of people probablyaren't, right?
And it's, and it's so crazy.
I think you can go into like areally deep rabbit hole at the
same time, depending on whichway that you want to go with it.
And when I started likeimplementing daily breath work
and cold showers, so I did like,I went really Wim Hof, right?

(10:27):
For like a couple of months.
And yeah, I remember, and Idon't remember exactly the
change in that time, butremember looking at it and I was
like, I actually don't feelstressed anymore.
I don't feel anxious anymore.
And I actually feel like I canget out of bed and I can
function without going, oh myGod, I need a nap as well.

(10:47):
And I was like...
what is this?
What is this that I've justdone?
And then that's when I went intothe events and obviously have a
totally different experiencefrom holotropic breath work as
well.
And yeah, like it's such amagical tool that we need to
access more.

(11:07):
And yeah, it just gets methinking like, why aren't
doctors or the healthcareprofessions or that kind of
industry thinking reallypromoting things that we have
already accessibly available tous

SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
yeah i mean this is one of the biggest sort of
future goal visions for us isyou know having so much
awareness around breathing thatyou know gps are when you're
coming in for an assessment youknow just as just as important
as it is to take your bloodpressure and your pulse and
check every hole, eyes, ears,everything else.

(11:45):
Like they go, how are youbreathing?
How many times are you breathingin a minute?
Um, you know, checking the boltschool, like things like that,
assessing people's tolerance tothe gas of CO2, you know, that's
a whole thing in itself.
That's the oxygen, um, CO2paradox where people think that
they need to breathe more, butthey need to breathe less.
And there's really simple waysthat we can be looking at our
everyday breathing and improvingit.

(12:08):
And that inherently justimproves our health and our
well-being and our mental stateand as you said before like it's
not just these bigtransformational holotropic
breathwork breakthrough stylesof breathwork that you need to
go to the biggest change isgoing to come from re-educating
people on how to breathe wellevery single day.
During moments of stress, duringmoments of overwhelm, during
moments of fatigue, all thesethings, you know.

(12:30):
And I think that, like anything,we just need more people like
yourself and I just speakingabout it, educating about it and
just spreading the message andslowly that ripple effect

SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
will

SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
hopefully catch up.

SPEAKER_00 (12:41):
Yeah.
And I love, like, a lot morepeople are open to it and are
doing it.
And, you know, when kids areupset...
or they cry, like what's ournatural response to them?

SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
It's just breathe.
Like, you know, it's okay.
Breathe.
And yeah, I think as adults, weforget that.
And when we are in those momentsthat we are feeling, yeah, a
little bit reactive or stressedor whatever is going on for us,
we actually forget ourselvesthat you need to take a breath
and need to check in with yourbody and what your body is

(13:14):
actually trying to tell youright now.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (13:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (13:16):
Very powerful.

SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Yeah, it really is.
Can you talk a little bit aboutdifferent styles of breathing as
well?
Like I know that we've justtalked, like Wim Hof is quite a
famous guy and style.
And then we spoke aboutholotropic.
But yeah, what are the differentstyles that...
So maybe actually I'll changethat question.

(13:40):
What do you do on a daily basisor how do you incorporate breath
work into your life?

SPEAKER_02 (13:45):
Into my life on a daily basis, really it's kind of
a thing that's just with me allthe time and it's used in a
variety of different ways.
I can use it when I need anenergy boost.
I can use it when I need to calmmyself if I'm feeling anxious or
anything like that.
So breath work for me really isbeing with my breath daily and

(14:06):
checking in.
daily and multiple times a daybreathing is this funny system
that if you let it go it justhappens by itself so we often
miss what's happening under thesurface or how fast or how
shallow we might be breathing sofor me it's intentionally coming
in you know often throughout theday and then really just giving
what my nervous system needs.

(14:26):
So there are lots of differentstyles of breath work and
techniques and everything inbetween.
And the way we like to simplifyit at our training is into two
categories, fast breathing andslow breathing.
And no matter what slowbreathing technique you use,
it's going to have a calmingeffect on your nervous system.
And no matter what fastbreathing technique you use,
it's going to have anup-regulating effect on your

(14:46):
nervous system.
So whether you use breath offire or super ventilation on
this side, you're going toexperience an increase in
activation whether you use boxbreathing, 2-1 breathing,
physiological size, they all dothe same thing to the nervous
system.
And so I think we can get reallylost in like, well, what's the
best technique when really weneed to think about, well, how
does it affect the body and howdoes it affect the nervous

(15:08):
system?
And once you know how to mapyour nervous system and go,
okay, I'm here.
then I need this or I'm herethen I need this then you can
apply the right thing at theright time and I think it comes
down to personal preference toosome people just enjoy certain
techniques more than others sofor me one of the things that I
do daily is minimal breathingreduced breathing where I
consciously try to take in lessand less and less and less air

(15:31):
and that might seem a bitcounterintuitive because like we
breathe in oxygen we need oxygenbut you know, at any given time,
our bodies are saturated withoxygen.

SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
95 to 99%.
We actually don't need moreoxygen half the time.
We need to improve our toleranceto the other gas that we breathe
out, which actually makes ourbreathing better.
Yeah.
So for me, I do breathingexercises that increase levels
of CO2, carbon dioxide, inknowing that that actually
lessens the amount of times Ibreathe in a minute.

(16:01):
It softens my breath.
It makes my breath quieter.
It regulates my nervous system.
And so I'll be doing, you know,five to 10 minutes here and
there throughout the day.
And then if I need a totalreset, then I might do like a
mixed flow where I do someperiods of fast breathing and
slow breathing and some breathholds in between.
And that just sort of justrefreshes me.
And yeah, it gives me a freshslate for the rest of the day.

(16:22):
And it just depends.

SPEAKER_00 (16:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've got a couple of kidsas well.
Two.
Two.
So how do you, like, do youincorporate breath work into
your family life at the sametime?
And how do you, yeah, how do youdo that with kids?

SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Yeah, with kids, so for a long time.
they were a little bit resistantto it.
I think when you're theirparent, they're like, no, Dad, I
don't want to do that,especially if they're
mid-meltdown.
Parents out there, don't try toteach your kids breathwork when
they're in a meltdown becausetheir brain is not open to
receiving and learning.
They'll either tell you to fuckoff or they'll tell you no, no

(17:03):
matter what age they are.
I don't know what age your kidsare.
But they're not open andreceptive to it.
So for my kids...
it's been modeling first andforemost, but it's also been
making it fun.
And so I'm really passionateabout teaching my kids how to
breathe well from now, like fromfour and six years old.
So we'll go into the backyardand we'll do some laps of the

(17:26):
yard, right?
And the whole time I'll be like,you can only breathe through
your nose.
And so I'm trying to get intotheir head that mouths are not
for breathing.
You can only breathe throughyour nose.
We're going to walk laps.
It must go in and out of yournose.
And then I'll go, okay.
on your next breath, I want youto breathe in through your nose,
breathe out through your nose,pinch your nose and hold your
nose and hold your breath for 10paces.
And they do a breath hold for 10paces.

(17:48):
And so what we're doing thereis, you know, teaching them to
breathe through their nose,teaching them to breathe less,
getting the benefits of gentlebreath holding and creating
these patterns in their brainand foundations of what it means
to actually breathe well.
And they love it.
They come up to me at dad, canwe go in the backyard and do the
breathing thing?
I want to hold my breath.
Um, and they love it.

(18:10):
And Now, you know, there'scertain breathwork techniques
that you can do to get rid ofhiccups.
So they'll come to me, what'sthat thing, dad, that gets rid
of hiccups again?
How do you do it?
And they're so open andreceptive to it.
So I guess, yeah, part one, it'smodeling.
Yeah.
You know, me modeling it.
And two, make it fun.

SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Like the kids need fun.
They need the interaction.
And three, don't do it whenthey're in a meltdown.

SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Best way to go about it.

SPEAKER_00 (18:33):
Yeah.
And I mean, like even as adults,like after you do something...
you just feel so good afterwardslike re-energize relax whatever
that state is like it's so goodafter the moment you're like i
should do this more often like

SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
and i don't know about you but like i know you're
a facilitator as well it'sinteresting like the more you
teach and facilitate andpractice it yourself the more
you can quite easily forgetabout doing it yourself and i
think when you work on yourbreath for a while you get it to
a point where It's good, butit's not something that's
concrete.

SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
If you

SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
experience a lot of stress and you're not taking
care of it, it will show.
And no one's exempt from that.
So I think as you get busier,

SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
you

SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
need to pay even more attention to it.
Otherwise, it quite easily slipsaway.

SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
I think I bring conscious awareness into how I
breathe so often throughout theday.
But I think for me, I don'tprobably have a set routine or
practice.
It's just like, okay...
how am I breathing right now andhow can I slow that down and how
can I be more mindful in how I'mbreathing.
So having those little momentsthroughout the day as well and

(19:39):
holotropic, I just love thatstyle of breathing that I do
quite often as well for thosereleases.
It's interesting, like I've beendoing breath work now for years,
like probably six years orsomething like that.
I never shared it with anyone.
I was like...

(20:00):
didn't even talk about it I wasI was just like oh what's this
I'll lean into it and like I asI said I did the Wim Hof
workshop and I went down thatpath and read the books and you
know James Nestor and liketaping my mouth when I sleep
like I was doing all of that andthen when I went to my first
holotropic breath work I hadsuch an emotional release um

(20:24):
that I pretty much cried for twodays but I didn't know what was
going on or how to tell someoneabout it so I just had it like I
was doing all the mindset workover on the side but breath work
I just kept hush hush which isso strange right and I was just
doing it for me and I kept goingto the events and then I

(20:44):
remember like I think it wasprobably only two years ago and
I invited a friend along to anevent I was going to because I
was like, do you know what?
Maybe it's time I share this.
And he was going through a bitof a difficult time and he was
going through a breakup and hewas just like, something needs
to change.
And so I invited him and one ofhis friends came along.

(21:05):
And afterwards, it was theirfirst time.
And afterwards, and two guys,they're from the gym, quite
masculine men.
And afterwards...
I just loved that momentafterwards.
Their first ever breathworksession and they were just like
off here and they looked at meand go, thank you so much.

(21:29):
And it was in that moment.
I loved that part of it morethan the session itself because
I was like, I just helped them.
And then even like, That was onthe weekend.
The following Monday, they werejust like, oh, my God, I want to
come to more events with you.
Anytime you're going, let meknow.
And then I was like, okay, maybethat's my sign to actually start

(21:52):
teaching this as well andrunning the events because
they're so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
It is.
And I think before I went intothe certification space, when I
added it to my coaching businessand one of the skills that I
would use in coaching sessions,there was nothing– that I had
given them that hit likebreathwork did.
You would watch peoplecompletely change in the matter
of minutes, less than an hour,and the reactions were really

(22:19):
special.
I'll never ever get over peoplesitting up and being like, thank
you so much, or wow, I've neverexperienced anything like that.
I've done lots of othermodalities and nothing hits like
that.
Nothing creates thatinstantaneous shift in people
and gives them that release andunpops the pressure valve and
gives them the space to justfeel and yeah it's this is why

(22:44):
we jump at home to coaches andwellness professionals and
things like that like you needthis in your toolkit like

SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
people are going to

SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
talk about you if you're able to deliver this
safely and effectively and theywill go and talk yeah and you
know there's even been momentswhere i've been facilitating and
watching people move throughtheir process.
And it actually makes meemotional at times because I'm
like, this is such a beautifulgift that I'm able to just
deliver here.
And I know that I'm not reallydoing anything at all.

(23:12):
I'm just saying, hey, this ishow we breathe.
And ultimately, they're in thedriver's seat.
So they are healing.
They are breathing.
I can't make them breathe.
But you're just sitting there asthe facilitator.
You're making sure everything isset.
You're making sure that nothinggoes wrong.
You're making sure that they'resupported and they're safe and
they're comfortable.
And they do the rest.
Yeah.
And when you take your ego outof it as a facilitator and you

(23:34):
really just allow that naturalprocessing to happen in that
healing, like it's really,really beautiful.
I

SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
think you touched on a really good point there, like
setting it up and people feelingsafe as well.
And yeah, So often we go throughlife feeling like we need to do
everything ourselves.
And when you go to an experiencelike Breathwork, it's a
permission piece.

SPEAKER_02 (23:58):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
And you've got really great facilitators there
and you know that you're goingto be safe in whatever comes up.
They're there to support you aswell.
And I think that in itselfhelps.
allows people then to experienceit and be in the moment and let
go of whatever it is that theyneed to let go of where through
a conversation like this theymight not get there because like

(24:21):
i might not know you or i don'tfeel safe in what you're saying
or i can't express my be raw orvulnerable because i don't know
how you're going to react or howyou're going to perceive it but
when you're in this state or inyour breath work and you don't
have to do anything besides bein the experience and know that

(24:42):
people are there for you.
Yeah, and the difference

SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
is the way that those two approaches work with
the mind.
Like talk therapy, people havetheir walls up because...
their prefrontal cortex theiranalytical mind is still very
online

SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
talking analyzing but there's the ego there too
there's self-preservation theretoo and when you do one of these
particular styles of breathworkthat we've been talking about
and you see people get to thispoint where there's big
cathartic releases going onshaking crying screaming
sometimes laughing people are nolonger limited by their
inhibitions like it's they'reout of the way Because once you

(25:18):
breathe to a certain point, thatpart of your mind actually
quiets down.
And so people then feel free tothen let their body and their
nervous system do what it needsto do.
And it's actually quiteunconscious.
It just happens.
Whereas when you are in asetting like this and you are
very online, you know, there arethings that stand in the way and

(25:38):
we are so driven not to feelpain or not to show it because
it's a sign.
I mean, it's vulnerability,right?
You perceive it as a sign ofweakness and if we think about
the way humans have operated forso many years, well, well back,
showing weakness, being cast outfrom the tribe or being judged
or anything like that, you know,increased likelihood of death or

(26:00):
harm.
So we've built walls aroundourself and there's these
patterns in our brain that stemso far back further than we can
even imagine that are stilloperating in us through
generations and generations andgenerations.
So with breath work, it's takingthe talking out of it, putting
on a blindfold or an eye maskand just going with your breath
until something happens.

(26:22):
Um, and yeah, Yeah, like yousaid, the permission piece,
that's often how it goes in abreathwork session too.
People have their walls up, thenone person will go, and that's
the group permission.
One person has a release of somesort, and then there's multiple.
It's like popcorn, bang, bang,bang, bang, bang, bang, because
now everyone's like, ah, we'rein this together.
We're safe.
This is a safe space to do this.

(26:43):
So it's also a beautiful placefor people to come to and to
just be who they are, let go ofwhat they need to let go of, and
they don't even necessarily haveto talk about it.
They don't have to share.

SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
They don't have

SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
to say a word if they don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
They can just be in the moment and experience it.
I think this is why

SPEAKER_02 (26:58):
it's powerful and I wish more men would come to it
because I know that men have ahard time opening up.
And, you know, this is amodality where you don't have to
open up if you don't want to.
And you can come and have anamazing experience and a big
release and make yourself feel10 times lighter.

SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
And

SPEAKER_02 (27:17):
then typically you do want to open up.
because you feel connected tothe group.
And then

SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
you're like, oh, what was that?
And then you lean more intothat, because then curiosity
comes into play.
And when you meet yourself incuriosity, it just opens up so
much more for you as well.

SPEAKER_02 (27:30):
Absolutely.
We're really, even in ourmessaging, we're a little bit, I
don't know, polarizing to thewoo-woo side of things, because
I think that breathwork is oftenconsidered and viewed as too
much of a woo-woo practice.
Sure, there's mysticalpractices, unexplainable
experiences that happen

SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (27:49):
and though there is science backing up what

SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
happens 100 yeah

SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
yeah so if we can speak about it in a way that's
not as woo-woo which i believefor a larger portion of society
just intimidates them

SPEAKER_01 (28:01):
yeah they

SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
don't want to walk into a room they don't want to
be saged up and down and made tobe whole crystals and drink
cacao and everything yeahnothing wrong with that i like
that

SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (28:10):
i enjoy indulging in that

SPEAKER_01 (28:11):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (28:11):
but i for the biggest percentage of society,
they think it's weird.
They think it's intimidating.
They don't want to do it.
So if we can

SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
speak into it,

SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
yeah, if we can make it just more normal, more chill,
Hey, like, you know, this is,this is breathwork, the entire
spectrum.
You can dip your toes in here.
You can try it.
Hey, this is actually backed byscience.
Then hopefully more people go,okay, like I'll dip my toe in
and then the curiosity kicks inand that only leads them deeper
and deeper and deeper.
And yeah.
So for us, we, um, We've evennoticed so many females coming

(28:43):
through and getting certifiedthrough us.
So then in our marketing, we'relike, how do we speak to more
men?
How do we talk to men?
How do we make them feel likethis is just as much for them as
it is for anyone else?
And so, you know, this yearthat's a big focus for us too,
getting more men in this space.

SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Yeah, I love that.
Like we're, because we've gotthe corporate coaching and
consulting company on the sideas well with Katie and We're
like, how can we utilize breathwork?
Because I love it.
I think above, I was going tosay above everything else, but
pretty much it's just had such aprofound impact on my life that

(29:21):
I love it.
I use it every day.
As I said, I still go to events.
Even though I'm a practitioner,I still go because it's a
different experience every time.
How do we bring that more intocorporate practice?
Because if you think about itfrom a corporate perspective or
a professional perspective whereif you think about like burnout,

(29:43):
stress and anxiety, overwhelm,people are like– people are
just, you know– their workloadsare getting busier or they're
increasing, yet they don'tnecessarily have the tools and
resources available to them in acompany setting that they could
easily access to help with that.

(30:04):
And people are like, oh, well,it's workload.
Like, let's just removeworkload.
I'm like, how about you actuallyfigure out, okay, I'm feeling
stressed in this moment.
What tools and resources do Ihave available to me to help me
through that?
And then have the communicationskills to then...
put in standards or boundariesor whatever they then need to
do.
So that's something that we'rereally focusing on at the same

(30:25):
time is like having, like, howcan you bring that in?
And it's different because it'sfrom a work perspective and a
work lens.
And it's like, yeah, you know,overcoming burnout and stress
and performance.
And I think like for men aswell, they care about how can I
be, how can I go from here andelevate my performance?

UNKNOWN (30:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
That's what they care about, right?
How can I just be better ratherthan what do I need to let go
of?

SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
That's

SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
right.

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
They need something to move towards.
They need that.
It's typically like, how am Igoing to feel more?
How can I deliver something tomen that's going to make them
feel more powerful, more incontrol of their emotional
state, more driven, have moreclarity, have more purpose?
Men want these things.
They want to seek their teethinto these things.
How can I be faster, fitter,stronger, powerful?

(31:16):
What's he doing?
Yeah.
You know, like how can I go 10more than him?
You know, like that competitionthing that's so ingrained in a
lot of men.
Yeah.
So yeah, like that's, that'sdefinitely, you know, how we
need to start speaking to menmore, you know, in our content
and, you know, just in ourdelivery too.
Yeah.
You know, I'm really consciousthat we have a workshop on the
weekend and, you know, very mucha mixed crowd.

(31:38):
So I'm already thinking like,

SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
how can

SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
I articulate the message on the day to speak to
both as best possible?
Um, so it'd be interesting.
I hope to see more men jump inon the day and yeah, get
involved.

SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Do you know what I love?
Um, so there's been a fewbreathwork events that I have
helped facilitate over like thelast 18 months and there has
been a couple that have beenpredominantly men and I'm like,
Oh my God, I love that, that menare showing up to do work as
well.
Like that is just like, thatwarms my heart so much.

UNKNOWN (32:16):
Um,

SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
But also, and this is actually where I first met
you.
I was

SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
just about to

SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
say that.
Yeah, and you were on a datenight with Shani.

SPEAKER_02 (32:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
And you went to a breathwork event and I was
helping facilitate thatparticular one.
And there were so many couplesthere

SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
that

SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
were on date night.
And even I attended one as aparticipant last Friday night.

SPEAKER_01 (32:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
There were people with their sons.
There were a couple of couplesthere as well.
Beautiful.
And so I love that so much.
It's not just the woman leadingand going to do something for
herself.
They're doing it together.
Yeah.
And that's just incredible.

SPEAKER_02 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah.
I remember that workshop.
Hey, I remember that.
I remember saying to Shani,cause like you and I had done
some study at the same place andI was like, you need to come and
see how these guys do it.
Cause I've done a lot ofdifferent breath work and I
really loved the way they do it.
Um, and we actually like fromthat experience had this idea
that we kind of want to bring tolife this year at some point,

(33:12):
but like, calling it date nightbut like full breath work yeah
um because shani is also verypassionate about like
relationships and coaching inthat space so um and we just
sort of said it when they'relike why are you here we're like
we're on date night and thenwe're like date night this is a
thing like i'm sure that a lotof people would love to have
this space and for shani and ilike it's been such a a pillar

(33:34):
for us to come back to if ourlives are really busy or maybe
we haven't been as connected aswe normally are and you know to
just move some shit out Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(34:13):
grab someone else by the handand if they're open, bring them
and then they will grab the nextperson by the hand.
I think that's how it's going tobecome more normal.

SPEAKER_00 (34:22):
It's interesting you say that.
I was chatting to a lady alittle while ago and she runs a
lot of singles events.
And when you think about singlesand meeting new people, you
generally think about going tothe pub or going out or having a
drink or going to dinner, right?
And she was like, how do theythen bring in more of that

(34:43):
health and wellness andconnecting with people that have
very similar values orinterests?
And she was looking at doing asingles one for breathwork, like
a singles event with breathworkand start to bring more of the
wellness side in it or doinglike morning connection rather
than night connection as well.
And, yeah, I was like that'ssuch a great idea because then
people can kind of connect onthat level.

(35:05):
And as you said, when you gothere– with those people, like
you're already connected on atotally different level as well.

SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
Yeah.
A

SPEAKER_02 (35:13):
hundred percent.
And it's such a small world.
I remember that workshop, likecoming around the corner and
she's like, no way.

SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yeah.
It is a small world.
And I think as you dip your toesinto it, like you realize more
and more people are involved init and some of them may not, you
know, be sharing it that openly.
They're just going along andit's like their little, you
know, secret thing that they'redoing once a month and they're,
they're loving it so much.
And I'm like, just speak.
Yeah, I know.
Like speak about it.
Tell people about it.

SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:39):
Like the more, the more they see just normal
everyday people going and doingthis and just being like, Hey,
it really works.
It's great.
Then they're going to be like,okay, like I'll give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 (35:47):
Yeah.
And to be honest, I still veryrarely talk about it.
Um, Yeah, I still very rarelytalk about it or promote it or
anything like that.
Like we ran a retreat recentlyand I did a breathwork for them
and we're doing another half-dayretreat coming up.
We're doing breathwork there.
But I very rarely, like unlessit's one-on-one or we're doing

(36:10):
other coaching programs, yeah, Idon't really share a lot about
it.
And I know I need to.
Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (36:15):
And I think from maybe the lens of like going and
doing it yourself, like it isalso a very deeply personal
experience.
So...
Sometimes I've come out ofexperiences and I'm like, I'm so
content.

SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
I don't

SPEAKER_02 (36:27):
want to even talk about what just

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
happened.

SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
not buzzed up to the point where I'm like, I have to
tell everyone about this.
I'm like, no, I'm very deeplysatisfied with what I just went
through and I just want to sitin this and keep it for me.
So I think that might play intoit as well for a lot of people.
It's like their own thing.
And it is.
It's different every time.
It's personal.
Yeah.
sometimes very emotional andsometimes that's just something

(36:52):
that we want to keep close and

SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
yeah that's okay too

SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
yeah we've spoken a lot about holotropic breath work
and people should go to thembecause they're quite
transformative and eye-openingand you have a release let's
talk through a little bit moreabout what that is though and
even the science behind it aswell and how we, that particular

(37:20):
style of breath, what it canaccess in our body.

SPEAKER_02 (37:24):
Yeah, very powerful stuff.
And when I first started doingit, I didn't think that there
could be any sort of logicalexplanation as to what was
happening.
And the more I've learned aboutbreath work and the brain and
the nervous system, the humanbody, the more I've actually
learned that there is a scienceto it.
And when you talk about arelease, like that's one part of

(37:45):
the journey.
Typically, one of theseexperiences has like four stages
to it.
So you have like an activationstage where we're breathing
faster and faster and faster andincreasing the depth of the
breath or the speed of thebreath.
And when we say activation, whatthat's doing is it's activating
the sympathetic nervous system.
And so it's putting you in afight or flight response again.
And when that starts to happen,your body builds up a charge and

(38:06):
you'll start to feel it as youdo it.
Like there'll be this tingling,shaking, the nervous system
really comes online.
And shortly after that point,you always, always, always meet
resistance.
There's always a layer ofresistance, if not many in a
breathwork session.
And that's a very pivotal partof the journey.
You know, with these types ofbreathwork sessions, they are

(38:27):
challenging they are confrontingthey can be uncomfortable at the
beginning and there is layers ofresistance that happens both
physically so we might have somelike tetany and some shaking and
cramping and stuff going on orpsychologically we might be
getting you know anxious notwanting to go there but if we
can stay with the process andbreathe through that resistance

(38:48):
the magical part of breathworkat that point in time is what
happens to your human brain.
You get a significant reductionof activity in the front part of
your brain.

SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
And

SPEAKER_02 (39:00):
the reason why that happens is partly because when
you're hyperventilating likethat, you're blowing out a lot
of carbon dioxide.

SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
And

SPEAKER_02 (39:09):
as you do that, you're not getting as much
oxygen into your cells.
And so what then happens is thatpart of your brain quiets down
quite a lot.
And no longer are youoveranalyzing every little thing
you're doing.
And so then what happens is thenervous system actually can
complete the stress loops thathave not been completed in the

(39:31):
past.
There's all these open loops inyour nervous system from trauma,
from stress, from lots ofdifferent experiences that you
have not completed the naturalcycle.
And so therefore that charge hasstored in your body.
Adrenaline and everything else,storing, storing,

SPEAKER_00 (39:47):
storing.
When you say the open loop, it'slike giving an example for a
moment.
So if you're in a challengingconversation, whether it's at
work or with a partner, if youdon't communicate what it is
that you need in that moment,your body, it's like you
suppress it and then that's likean open loop that you've stored
in your body.

SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
Yep.
That, you know, anything whereany situation that happens
triggers you and creates aphysiological response where you
feel your body going through theadrenaline surge if you stay
still and if you do nothingabout it it will store and when

(40:27):
we look at humans versus animalsanimals are very very good at
just going through this processthey get triggered they fight
they flight they use the energythat their body has given them
their nervous system completesits loop but what do we do as
humans we freeze up We suppress.
We don't talk.
We overanalyze.
And that charge doesn't justmagically like fizzle out.

(40:48):
It goes and it

SPEAKER_00 (40:49):
stores

SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
in the tissues, in the fascia, in the body.
And so when we finally get achance to breathe to a certain
point where our human brain hasgone quiet, then...
the two parts of our brain thatare more primitive, the
reptilian and mammalian brain,they come online.
And the nervous system goes,finally, I've got room to
just...

(41:10):
And it just releases thattension.
And as a result, the nervoussystem goes...
rest and digest back to normal.
And that is the relief thatpeople feel.
Yeah.
It's that completion part wherethey're like, Oh my God, I feel
light.
I feel grounded.
Like, why haven't I not feltlike this in years?
Well, because you've beenreally, really unaware of what's

(41:32):
going on and how to notice yournervous system and what to do.

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
And I think you mentioned it before, like our
body, when we hold on toemotions, so that release can be
crying, it can be shaking, itcan be anger, it can be whatever
it is.
Yeah, anything.
Yeah, it's like your body haswhatever response it needs to at
that time.
Yeah, and

SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
that's when people typically sometimes...
Yeah, it protects you.
Yeah.

(42:21):
But typically when we're tooonline,

SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
no,

SPEAKER_02 (42:25):
I don't want to do that.
Too painful.
Avoidance, no.

SPEAKER_00 (42:28):
The pain and the discomfort.

SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yeah.
There's no avoidance in thatstate of mind.
It's an openness and you're nolonger just a human being.
You've lost track of time andwhere you are and everything
else.
You're in the abyss and yourbody is just doing what it knows
how to do.

SPEAKER_00 (42:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (42:44):
And then when you come back online,

SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
then things are just different.

UNKNOWN (42:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (42:49):
Yeah, you're like, how long past?
40 minutes?
What do you mean?
It felt like five.

SPEAKER_00 (42:53):
Where did I go?
Time just, what's time?
Yeah, and it's

SPEAKER_02 (42:56):
creating these powerful altered states of
consciousness, thesenon-ordinary states that, you
know, are similar to things likeplant medicine and things like
this where people have verytransformative experiences but
you have access to it at anytime.
Yeah.
You can turn it off at any timeand you are somewhat in the
driver's seat as opposed toother types of, you know, say

(43:17):
plant medicine, like once you'rein, You're in.
Strap up.
That's it.
You're in for hours.
Yeah.
And you're with it through allthe waves, whereas breath work,
you can adjust and flow with it,and you are in control a little
bit more, which could be seen asgood or bad if we're

SPEAKER_01 (43:31):
trying to let go of control.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:34):
But it is this incredible tool that people come
out of it.
They're like, I felt like I wason drugs.
What was

SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
that?

SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
It's just breathing, man.

SPEAKER_01 (43:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:42):
It's just changing your physiology and changing
what's happening in your brain.
Yeah.
Creating these powerful alteredstates.

SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
This is a serotonin.
Yeah.
All right.
We're going to change gearsslightly.
What's a book that's changedyour life?

SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
A book that's changed my life?
Two, actually.
Can I choose two?

SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
The first personal development book I ever read was
Breaking the Habit of BeingYourself, Dr.
Jada Spencer.
I loved that book so muchbecause it spoke into quantum
physics, but it also spokeinto...
And so there was this abstractstuff and this very grounded
stuff.
And I loved the way that hebasically...

(44:23):
You know, articulated throughhis book that we are just a
series of patterns and a seriesof behavioral patterns and
thought patterns.
And most of our thought patternsare the same as the day before
and the day before.
And who we are is just aculmination of the experiences
across our lifetime.
So, you know, in order to createchange, we have to break the
habit of being who we are.
And that was really pivotal forme in business.

(44:46):
There was a book that I read,and I'm reading another book
that's sort of following on fromit now.
It was Who Not How by DanSullivan and another guy.
I don't know.
He actually wrote it for DanSullivan.
But that book was transformativefor me in the way of
entrepreneurship.
I'm the type of person who has areally bad habit of wanting to
do all the things and just do itall.

(45:08):
And so that mindset shift ofdelegating, automating, Hiring
people who are way better thanme to do the thing than I could
ever be and to free me up tostay in my zone of genius.
has been transformative for notonly myself as a person but also
our growth as a business,

SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
yeah.
I love that book with JoeDispenza and, yeah, about
patterns.
Like, we're just living inpatterns.

SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
All the

SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
time.
Like, it's just crazy.
Like, the people in your life,it's a pattern.

SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
All of it.

SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
The people that you date, it's a pattern.
Like, everything that you do,like, yeah, and that gives you
the opportunity to recognise thepattern, change the pattern,
then you...
Create a new one.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
You get a totally different result.

SPEAKER_00 (45:48):
Yeah.
Yeah, I love it.
What's one piece of advice youwould give your younger self?

SPEAKER_02 (45:57):
I get asked this question and the answer is
always different.
What's one piece of advice thatI would give to my younger self?
I'm trying to think what'srelevant for me right now.
What's relevant for me right nowis How old am I?
Can I ask?

SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
You can be any age.
Younger self could be yesterday.
I'm

SPEAKER_02 (46:19):
going to go with the age of 13 to 16 because I think
that was a really pivotal timefor me.
It would be stop trying to fitin and be authentic and be
yourself.
Every single time I've shedlayers of being what I thought

(46:39):
other people wanted me to be,I've always had the most
transformational experiences andperiods of growth.
And I think for a long time Ifell into the idea of like
melding myself into whatpartners wanted me to be or what
business partners wanted me tobe or what friends wanted me to
be.
Or I started doing things thatweren't in alignment with my

(46:59):
values just to please otherpeople and be accepted.
And so it would be really to notdo that and just be myself from
the get go and be authentic and,And just know that when you are
authentic, like anything that ismeant for you comes in and
whatever's not just falls awayeffortlessly.
You attract the right people.
Yeah, it just clears itself out.

SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
That's really powerful in itself, right?
Because so often we lookexternally for that validation.
It's easy to do it like it'shuman nature, right?
We want to be liked and we wantto be accepted.
But yeah, once you work out whoyou are and how to communicate
that and show people at the sametime, it then brings the right
people into your life.

SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
I think it's also accepting yourself.
darker parts of you too like andmaking friends with those parts
and just really deeplyunderstanding yourself and
knowing how to even communicatethose parts to yourself that
maybe you've kept in the shadowsor been shameful of or afraid of
and how can you bring them tolight and own that as
authenticity too because yeah weare both and how can we share

(47:58):
those deeper darker parts ofourselves with other people and
let them know that how to loveus better or treat us better you
know instead of just pretendingthat we're not upset by
something or something didn'ttrigger us or we don't have a
fear about something like let'sjust be honest

SPEAKER_00 (48:11):
it's the communication not taking things
personally right like yeah andthat's such a skill in itself
yeah i think being able to havethose conversations in that
openness

SPEAKER_02 (48:22):
absolutely

SPEAKER_00 (48:23):
um what's one key message you'd like to leave with
our listeners today

SPEAKER_02 (48:27):
Try breathwork.

SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
Give breathwork a go.
A

SPEAKER_00 (48:31):
hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
Yeah.
Like that's, that's really whatstands out for me with this
conversation.
Like give it a go.
If you're on the fence, try it.
If there's a rejection to it,explore it.
One of the most powerful thingsthat I do is, often now as much
as i can catch myself is explorethe things that i say i don't
like or i say no to without anyprior sort of experience with it

(48:54):
how could i ever know if i don'tlike it yeah you know i caught
myself back in the day beinglike i don't like that food i'm
like how the fuck do i know thatyeah i've never put it in my
mouth and people sometimes i'mlike i don't like that person
well why

SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (49:05):
and when i've explored my rejections to things
i've either found that they areme and they're parts of me, or
I've learnt something so deepabout myself or life.
And so if there's this rejectionto breathwork for whatever
reason, explore it because youmight just get the thing that
you actually need on the otherside of it.

SPEAKER_00 (49:26):
Yeah, I love that so much.
One last thing is can you maybejust talk through or provide an
example of a– style of breathwork that listeners can take and
utilize and incorporate in theirdaily life as well so if they're
finding themselves in moments ofstress or having that ah kind of

(49:51):
moment yeah what can they do

SPEAKER_02 (49:53):
yeah so the common advice when you're stressed is
to take a big breath right takea deep breath and it's right and
it's wrong in some ways Whenyou're stressed, when you're
anxious, when you'reoverwhelmed, when you're really
heightened, chances are you'realready breathing too much.
Because as your stress levelsincrease, so does the speed of

(50:15):
your breath.

SPEAKER_01 (50:16):
If

SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
you think about someone having a panic attack,
what are they doing?
Hyperventilating.
And that further feeds the panicattack.
It actually makes it worse.
And when they were breathinginto brown paper bags, what they
were doing is capturing the CO2.
They were capturing it andbreathing it back in.
The downside to that is you'renot getting any more fresh
oxygen.
But when you started to look athow that worked in helping with

(50:39):
anxiety and stress, the secretwas in actually having more CO2
in your body.
So when you're stressed, thebest thing that you can do is
reduce your breathing and holdyour breath, not breathe more.
So if you're about to go onstage or something and you're
about to public speak, hold yourbreath.
And there's a particular styleof exercise that I like, and

(50:59):
it's literally just called manybreath holds.
And all you do is you nasalbreathe in and out of the nose
for like 10 to 15 seconds.
And then after 15 seconds,exhale the air out of your nose,
hold your nose, hold your breathfor five seconds, rinse and
repeat.
10 seconds nasal breathing, fivesecond breath hold.
10 seconds nasal breathing, fivesecond breath hold.
That will literally shift youout of a stressed out, anxious,

(51:22):
heightened state in a matter oflike seconds.
Um, as opposed to, I'm going totake big breaths now, reduce it,
reduce it, reduce it.
Um, and I've helped a lot ofpeople that have like asthma so
they can stop asthma attacks inits tracks.
It can stop panic attacks in itstracks and it, and it stops
anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Um,

SPEAKER_02 (51:41):
and so simply just, you know, bumping up CO2, um,
increases oxygen delivery to thebrain.
And as a result, we can thinkclearer, we can be more
grounded, and our nervous systemloves it.
So I would say that justrethinking about the way that
you have been taught to breathewhen you're stressed, start to
breathe less.
Another really great one that Ilike is just called minimal

(52:03):
breathing or feather breathing.
You just imagine there was afeather under your nose, you
would have done this, and youjust breathe really light.
And as you do it, you'll noticethere's this little urge to want
to take a bigger breath becauseyou're not used to it.
And you want to just get it to apoint where you can hold it and
maintain it and it's not toostressful.
But as a result, again, raisingCO2 in the blood, increased

(52:25):
oxygen delivery, vasodilation,everything opens up and the
nervous system responds reallywell to CO2.
It's a relaxant.
So they're the two that standout for me.
And outside of that, did you askfor two or one?

SPEAKER_00 (52:40):
No, just, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:41):
Yeah, that one's really...
really um the one that standsout for me the most outside of
that um you know there arecertain breath techniques that
you can do to up regulate aswell so you know periods short
periods like 30 seconds or sojust rapid fire breathing
through the nose that can beenough to just turn on

SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
the sympathetic thing yeah

SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
it's not going to give you long-term energy yeah
because you You know, you'rebreathing too much.
Yeah.
So oxygen delivery, not to thecells.
But what it will do is it willactivate the nervous system.
And if you just need a bit of anoomph,

SPEAKER_00 (53:13):
it

SPEAKER_02 (53:13):
can just turn you on again and then away you go.
So, yeah, I would say, you know,like really dive deep into the
world of breathwork because it'snot just Wim Hof and it's not
just hyperventilation.
And hyperventilation isextremely popular right now.
But the problem that we'reseeing is that we've got people
who are chronically stressed.

(53:34):
breathing rates are way too highat rest.
Going to breathwork workshops,jumping on YouTube and doing Wim
Hof, and it's a pattern, sothey're already breathing too
fast.
Then they're consciouslybreathing too fast, and it's
solidifying the pattern ofbreathing too fast.
And what we need to do is weneed to breathe less.
We need to breathe lighter.
We need to breathe soft andreduce the amount of times we

(53:55):
breathe in a minute.
And when I did some trainingthrough Oxygen Advantage, one of
the things that they said waslike, you know, really good,
healthy breathing.
You wouldn't even be able totell someone's breathing.

SPEAKER_00 (54:08):
You

SPEAKER_02 (54:08):
can't see it.
You can't hear it.
It is so soft.
You can't even see that bodymoving.

SPEAKER_00 (54:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:13):
Which is probably pretty eye-opening for a lot of
people listening going, wow, youcan definitely hear or see me
breathing.

SPEAKER_00 (54:18):
Yeah, exactly right.
But that's a sign.
And then lean into that 100%.
Yeah, it's a sign.

SPEAKER_02 (54:22):
Like if you're breathing deep and heavy, you
know, you're making things worsefor yourself.
Yeah.
Every breath, you could bebreathing your way into
breathing.
stress and anxiety.
Yeah.
And then sitting in atherapist's office thinking that
you may have anxiety, but youmight be breathing your way
there due to dysregulatednervous system.

SPEAKER_00 (54:37):
And then you're more anxious because that's where you
are and about to have aconversation about your anxiety
or the label of anxiety.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
It's such a great topic and I know that we could
probably talk for hours andhours, but appreciate your time
today and for joining me on thepodcast and for Conversations
That Count.
And hopefully the listeners,you've got some little gold
nuggets in there as well and toimplement into your daily life
and also get to a breathworkevent.
It will change your life.

SPEAKER_02 (55:03):
Thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
Yep, perfect.
Thanks.