Felicity Morgan, known as The Shadow Queen, is a powerful guide in the realm of emotional alchemy, shadow work, and personal reclamation. Through her unique approach, she helps women identify and integrate their shadow, those hidden parts we often suppress so they can break free from self-sabotage, step into wholeness, and lead with fierce authenticity.
In this conversation, Felicity unpacks:
How to recognise when your shadow is in control
The real reason you’re getting triggered (and what to do about it)
Why facing your darkness is the key to reclaiming your light
If you value personal growth and have a curious mind, this one is for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of Conversations
(00:03):
That Count.
I'm super excited to have a veryspecial guest, Felicity Morgan,
on my podcast, who is, are younamed the Shadow Queen?
Is that the official title?
That's my title.
The official title that you goby?
I'm owning it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm excited to have you hereand talk all things shadow
because you're a wealth ofknowledge in that space and
(00:24):
yeah, excited to dive deep intothat, what it means and how you
can utilize your shadow work andknow your shadow self in
everyday life and how it playsout as well.
So welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
Yes, me too.
I've been following you for alittle bit, to be honest, and
I've done a couple of yourmasterclasses now, and I was
just like, the other weekend,I'm like, why not?
I'm just going to reach out toyou and see if you'd like to be
a guest, and yeah, so happy thatyou said yes, and yeah, you're
here, so thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
You are so welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
So firstly, what is shadow work, and why?
what is shadow self like maybethat's and that's probably a
pretty big question to startwith but i feel like let's go
there
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
right yeah because i feel like a lot of people know
what shadow work is but theirview of it is quite limited and
what i would say is what peopleprobably resonate with shadow
work with is potentially theirdarker self like a lot of people
resonate they know that they'vegot a darker self we know we
have this part of us that judgesthat reacts, that has impulses,
(01:32):
desires, patterns and cycles andbehaviors that we feel shame
around.
And that really is your shadow.
Your shadow is a part of youthat you deny, that you
suppress, that you judge.
in others you get triggered inothers about and it's also the
part of you the other flip ofthat is your light self as well
so the parts of you that you'vesuppressed because you believe
(01:55):
they're going to get judgment orheat or you know frustration
from others and this can bethings from you know sexuality
it could be joy it can beexcitement it can be you know
being loud it could be alldifferent parts of ourselves so
really the shadow is twodifferent pieces And it's like,
it's either what you'resuppressing or what you're
(02:18):
overexpressing, right?
So let's just say anger.
A lot of people have anoverexpressed anger where when
they connect to that emotion orthat emotion is present for
them, it comes out in reallydestructive ways.
doesn't it?
Or some people are the oppositewhere they've suppressed that
part of themselves.
So that part of them is quitesubmissive.
(02:39):
They hold it in, right?
And so really that's what theshadow is, is when we have
distorted parts of ourselveswhere they're not healthily
integrated.
We don't have a goodrelationship to that part of our
personality.
So it acts out in ways that welater regret.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
So how do you find...
What your shadow is as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Yeah.
So I would say a couple ofdifferent things is what do you
judge in others?
What do you judge in others?
What are you so, what issomething that someone else does
that you get so triggered by?
You're so passionate.
You feel so annoyed by.
That's a really good indicationthat they're mirroring something
(03:22):
to you that you're denying oryou're not seeing in yourself.
Or that you've suppressed.
Because sometimes you're gettingtriggered because you're like, I
wish I could show up like that.
I wish I could do that.
I wish I had a good relationshipto that part of myself.
Or sometimes it's, I don't wantto see this part of myself.
So I'm going to project ontoyou, judge you, make you wrong.
(03:46):
Because that feels easier thanowning that I'm just like you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
How good, like that reflection piece as well.
And when you do feel...
So when you do meet someone andyou are triggered by them or you
have that judgment, how do youknow that it's not just a
judgment on them and it'sactually you as well?
Like, is there a differencethere?
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Really good question.
I feel like that's going to beso helpful to your audience.
The terminology that I like touse is, are you informed or are
you affected?
So if you are informed bysomeone's behavior, you're able
to observe them from a neutralspace.
You're able to go, oh, like thatperson's really loud.
I wonder what's going on forthem.
(04:30):
Oh, that person is being reallyloud.
And, you know, it's making mefeel uncomfortable, right?
But when you're affected by it,you're going, oh, that person's
really loud.
They're ignorant.
They're mean.
They're cruel.
They're up themselves.
You're putting characteristicsand judgments towards what
you're observing.
But when we're neutrallyobserving something and we're
like, oh, I noticed that personbeing condescending.
(04:52):
I'm not taking it personally.
I'm not judging them for it.
I'm just observing it and I canpolitely remove myself because
it's not for me.
That's when you know that you'reinformed by someone's behavior,
but you're not having a reactionto it.
You're able to respond to it,right?
So an example, let's just sayyou're with one of your
girlfriends and they'regossiping.
(05:14):
Just because you're noticingthey're gossiping doesn't mean
that you're a gossiper.
But if they're gossiping andyou're so triggered by it and
then you're assassinating themwith names, even in your mind,
even in your self-talk, that's areally good indication that
there's a reason why you'refeeling so affected by it.
It's because you know there's apart of you that does that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
And when you say trigger, so how would you
classify a trigger in terms of,is it a thought?
Is it a feeling?
Is it just like, what's theindication within you that
you're triggered by someone elseas well?
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
So right now you're probably breathing perfectly.
You're probably having notreally any thoughts, right?
Anytime your body goes fromgrounded, regulated, neutral,
and it goes to any height whereyou're feeling dysregulated,
you're not feeling neutral,you're feeling passionate.
Even being passionate is a formof dysregulation.
It's being triggered into aresponse part, right?
(06:15):
That it's just about what typeof trigger you're currently
experiencing.
But a trigger really is any timethat you are experiencing an
ungrounded version of yourself.
And a lot of people can't touchthat.
Right.
A lot of people think thatthey're grounded.
They're like, oh, I'm nottriggered.
I'm like, you are because youare unable to respond how you
would if you weren't affectedright now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
So it's a reaction mode as well rather than
responding.
Yeah.
And it's so great.
I feel like triggers are such agreat message for us.
And when you can start to tuneinto exactly what that is, then
it opens it up to exploring thatfurther and uncovering parts of
you to heal and When it comes topersonal development and knowing
(07:00):
that, and there's differentlayers, I guess, of that
self-development and probablyyour conscious awareness,
unconscious awareness.
And then you, I think yesterdayyou were describing it then as
your shadow self as well.
It's like a next layer.
Like how does that then all...
work together and weave togetherin a way?
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Well, the cool thing about the shadow, because it is
really a layer deeper than theunconscious, right?
Because it's really the part ofourselves that we have zero
consciousness of.
Even there's parts of you rightnow that you're not fully
conscious of.
So they're sitting in yourunconscious, but you can pull
that part of yourself outstrategically when needed,
right?
(07:38):
So an example, let's just saysomeone, a very good example, is
let's just say someone knowsthat they overeat.
That's an unconscious part ofthemselves.
So they binge eat, right?
But in the present moment whenthey're about to do it, they're
unable to catch that part ofthemselves because it's
unconscious.
But then there's some peoplewhere it's like they're actually
fully unaware that they bingeeat.
(07:59):
Like if you said to them, areyou binge eating?
They'd be like, I've never donethat.
That shows shadow where you'reso out of awareness of it.
You're so disconnected from it.
It doesn't even really make itto your conscious self.
And a very good example of it inone of my core foundational
programs, Conscious Body, I talkabout the four levels of shadow.
(08:20):
So there's things that we areconsciously aware that we're
doing, but they're notintegrated, right?
So we're aware that we haveanger outbursts, but we can't
control it.
Right?
So that's really unconsciousstuff, right?
But then there's parts of uswhere we are unaware of that
part of ourself and we can'tcontrol it, that shatter.
(08:42):
It's like, we're unaware of it.
We're unaware of when we'redoing it.
We're only catching it inhindsight.
And we have zero control of it.
So shadow work is that layer ofdeeper.
And this is really cool becausethe shadow is the things that
are predominantly running yourlife.
You know, your unconscious selfthat comes up sometimes that you
(09:02):
have some level of control overor some level of awareness of
aren't doing the damage that theshadow is doing.
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
So how do you bring that into your awareness?
Because if you're unconsciousand you're just going through
the motions and just doingthings, then I'm not going to
go, oh, that's my shadow self.
Okay, now I get to or I chooseto work through that.
If you're doing thingsunconsciously, how do you catch
yourself in those moments aswell and bring that to the
surface?
(09:31):
And
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
this is the beauty when you were speaking about
triggers before and I was goingto say it and then I was like,
well, we'll speak about it soon.
Triggers are the biggest giftbecause they are pathways to
your shadow.
Right?
It's like, ooh, I'm triggeredhere.
Why am I so triggered by this?
What's in this for me?
Right?
So triggers and projections aregoing to be your gateways to
(09:53):
your shadow.
So projections, for people whodon't know, are generalized
statements that you put ontosituations of people that aren't
really true.
Or maybe they were true onceupon a time for a short period
of time or once and you just–generalize that or you
(10:14):
experience yourself throughanother human being right so you
experience someone's anger youexperience your anger and your
anger for your anger throughanother human being so when we
start making generalizedstatements of people making
judgments In a pointing fingersat people, getting triggered by
(10:37):
people, that's going to help usbring that awareness to our
internal self.
So anytime that you'reinteracting externally with
other people, you're going to beable to do shadow work if you
choose the art of contemplationand self-reflection.
So the art of that really iscuriosity, right?
(10:58):
So if you can start gettingcurious around, hey, I wonder if
like the way that I'm viewing mypartner right now isn't actually
true.
I wonder if I'm triggeredbecause I'm actually just like
them.
I wonder if the way that I'mexperiencing them, right, is
actually a strategy by my shadowself.
(11:19):
So I don't need to meet the partof me that's doing X, Y, and Z,
right?
So it's this art of likecontemplation and curiosity,
like questioning things insteadof committing to your shadows
and committing to your triggersand committing to your
projections and committing toyour judgments.
You get curious about it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
I love the word curiosity so much.
And if we meet everything incuriosity, then we get the
opportunity to learn through itat the same time rather than
just have that acceptance ofwhatever is happening as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
What's our kids one?
That's the reason why kids gofrom like a zero to 100 so
quickly because they're in thisstate of curiosity.
They're interested in like, oh,who am I?
What am I doing?
What am I here for?
What do I like?
What do I don't like?
But then eventually we get to anadulthood and somehow we just
decide curiosity is no longer athing that we want to dabble in
(12:11):
because we're committed.
to be seen as the way that wewant to be seen and we don't
want to be challenged on thatbut okay cool i'm done now i
don't want to be curious anymorei just want to this is who i am
and this is how i like to beseen and this is how i'm going
to present myself to the worldand anyone who challenges that
they're out anyone whochallenges that they're not for
me anyone who challenges me inthat is you know negative
(12:33):
whatever it is so curiosityreally is the foundation of
shadow work it's getting back tothat curious expanded self when
you were younger
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Where was I going to go with that?
I think you mentioned about thepeople around you as well and
calling you out.
I think you posted somethingthis morning.
I think it was this morningabout your friends and
essentially like how good areyour friends and do they call
you out on your bullshit?
How do you create an environmentthat you or relationship with
(13:04):
your friends that you can thencall each other out on things
that potentially are yourshadows rather than accepting
people's behavior and going ohthat's just them or um are they
just having an off day orthey're just being a bit bitchy
or whatever the the term youwant to use how do you actually
yeah set up that environment
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
Firstly, I would say, let's take a step back and
go, why are you in thatenvironment in the first place?
So why have you got arelationship where either one,
you don't feel safe to call yourfriends out or two, you're in a
dynamic where you both don'tcall each other forward.
And I'm going to say to you,both of you are gaining from
that situation and that dynamicbecause a lot of people identify
(13:51):
love as someone who supports meand validates me and comforts
me, where when you look into therealms of shadow work, we look
at love as a space of someonewho calls out your potential,
calls you forward, doesn't letyou play in your shadow, doesn't
let you play out toxic cycles,doesn't let you play out
patterns.
(14:11):
So I think even before going,how do I do that?
We actually need to go into aspace of self-responsibility and
go, why do I have that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:22):
Why
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
do I have that?
Because it's great to, you know,I could bring you a framework to
do, but if you're stillcommitted to the secondary gain
of being in a relationship whereno one calls you out, then no
framework is going to help you.
So I think it's really importantto understand and observe our
relationships and being like,okay, cool.
(14:43):
Like, am I believing that theylove me because they're
validating me or not?
how do I want to view love?
And for me, I believe the mostunconditional love that you can
give someone is going, hey, Ican see what you're doing and
I'm not going to let you dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
How great to have people around you that can
actually do that for you at thesame time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
But it's also the most triggering thing because in
my post today, what I said, themost dangerous friend to have is
someone who agrees with you allthe time.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
We
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
don't want someone to be agreeing with us all the
time.
We're not meant to be thesesubmissive people.
children, right?
We're adults who have differentopinions and different
perspectives.
We can learn from each other.
Like even right now, there isthings that you're seeing in me
that I'm unaware of, right?
If you're agreeing to exactlyhow I like to see myself and how
I like to be presented and how Iwant you to see me, right?
(15:38):
I'm never going to learnanything more about myself than
how I'm currently seeing myself.
So the power of being able touse other people and leverage
other people to build yourinternal awareness is super
powerful because if we're onlydoing personal development from
a space of just using our ownobservations, just using our own
discoveries, we're actually notdoing the inner work.
(16:00):
We're doing– I'm fueling andfeeding my ego.
I'm finding things within mycurrent state of awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
That is so great.
I don't think I've really heardit put that way as well, like
using other people around you toactually– yeah to grow as well
because yeah you can you canconcentrate as much as you want
on yourself but then it's alsoin the relationships and the
dynamics and having the exactsame conversation with them and
growing through that as wellbecause they're always going to
(16:28):
bring new things to the surfacefor you
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
yeah because even even from a space of building
confidence like some a littlepractice that my girlfriends and
I do together is you know whatare three traits that you love
about me that potentially I'mnot utilizing or seeing like
When I've asked those questionsto my friends, I'm like, oh my
gosh, how do you see that in me?
And eventually what ended uphappening was I would constantly
(16:53):
get that reassurance from myfriends and those reflections.
I ended up leveraging thoseparts.
And that's really cool, right?
Because there is parts of yourbiggest strengths right now.
And like, I don't know if you'rein a relationship or not, but
like even a best friend,whatever it is, they can see
that part of you, but you haveno awareness to have been there.
So you're not leveraging it.
You're not leveraging it in yourpodcast.
(17:14):
You're not leveraging it in yourbusiness.
You're not leveraging it in yourrelationships.
But having the power of otherpeople being able to reflect
things to us is so powerfulbecause it opens up our
awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I love that so much.
And yeah, I'm here like thinkingabout, you know, people in my
life at the moment as well andthe conversations I have with
them and how like I just lovedthe What can you see in me that
I might not see?
It's such a beautiful andpowering question at the same
time.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
And that's cool as well because it just goes to
show shadow work isn't alwaysnegative.
It's about building a power thatwe are unable to see.
So it's also, it's like, Hey,Hey, how can I address the parts
of me that's sabotaging me?
You know, the, the darker sideof myself where, you know, I'm
being destructive, I'm beingunhealthy, I'm being toxic, I'm
being, you know, whatever it is,but also what parts of me am I
(18:04):
not leveraging?
What parts of my strengths thatI'm not seeing that I'm not even
noticing that this is actuallyan incredible part of myself
because we've been in our ownbodies and our own minds.
I don't know about you, but I'm,35 from memory, turning 35 this
year actually, like you get usedto your personality.
So it doesn't feel like new andshiny.
You don't really get to knowwhat is, what makes you
(18:27):
different.
But using people and leveragingshadow work allows you to
self-reflect with other humanbeings and learn more about
yourself through other humans.
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
It's like a growth, continuous growth cycle, right?
UNKNOWN (18:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
You mentioned about secondary gain earlier as well.
Like what is secondary gain?
And when you find yourself in anenvironment that you are feeling
triggered, how do you uncoverwhat that secondary gain is?
SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
So secondary gain is pretty much anything and
everything that you claim thatyou dislike or hate about your
life right now.
You wouldn't continue to play itout or you wouldn't continue to
have that unless you weregaining something from it.
So shadow work plays in therealm of you are attracting
everything that you want.
Whether the want is unhealthyfor you, there still is gain.
(19:21):
And that can be really hard tosee.
And it can be really hard tohear because there's, you know,
some things that you're like, Iwould do anything to get rid of
this.
And I'm not saying that youdon't want that, but I'm here to
tell you that the thing thatyou're gaining from that thing
right now, you're not willing togive up.
UNKNOWN (19:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
So have you got an example that you can provide?
Like if we go back to when youwere talking about the
friendship group as well andpotentially toxic or you're not
calling each other forward.
How would you uncover asecondary gain from that?
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
Okay, so let's say you're in a friendship where
you're feeling like you're themost self-aware one.
You're coaching your friend,she's always going through
breakups and, you know, datingfuckboys and you're feeling like
you're always like being therefor her, right?
You're always the ears, you'realways holding her and you're
feeling like, I feel like a lackof support in that relationship.
(20:16):
Most people are will go intovictim mode.
Poor me, I have no friends thatcare about me or support me.
I'm always the one helpingeveryone else.
They'll go into that victimhood.
What I will say to you is for aslong as you are the most
self-aware one, you're alwaysthe one supporting you, you
don't need to be seen in yourshadow.
(20:37):
You don't need to be vulnerable.
You don't need to be honest.
You don't need to be honestabout the parts of you that need
support.
There is always secondary gainin every single thing that we
do.
And the way that we usually findit is asking ourselves a simple
question is, I love this cycle.
I love this relationship.
(20:57):
I love X, Y, and Z because I getto...
What do you get to do?
Who do you get to be?
that you secretly love.
Once again, I'm not doing victimlanguage.
Victim language is, you know, Iget to not be supported.
It's like, no, you get to hide.
You get to feel superior.
You get to feel superior in thatrelationship because you're the
(21:19):
self-aware one.
She's dating the fuckboys.
You're not.
You're the one who's able tocoach her, right?
So it's even seeing in thosedynamics that we say that we
dislike and we wish, you know,we'd our life and our
relationships would be wildlydifferent.
I've never not seen someone havesecondary gain in something that
they claim that they hate.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Such a beautiful question.
I was going to ask you, like,what's one of your favourite
questions, but I feel like thatone there is brilliant.
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
So good.
And I shared this on, I don'tknow where I shared this
recently, so it doesn't reallymatter.
But I remember there was a timelike I came from, you know, I'm
well off now and I have anincredible business and very
established.
But there was once upon a timewhere I was literally like, had
no money like I would sometimesmy account would get down to 10
bucks 100 bucks and two kids andI remember doing shadow work on
(22:14):
myself and being like what isthe secondary gain in this like
I'm saying I want to make moneyand I'm saying I want this but
somehow I'm in these cycles ofmaking money and then somehow it
just goes like I would literallyget the most random bills of
like you know electricitycompany you know looking for me
from three years ago and it'slike a thousand bucks I'm like
what is going on like I would Iwould attract people so much
(22:36):
pain and attract so much likebad luck let's just say and I
remember having thisconversation with myself and
realizing that when I struggledI got attention from my mom my
mom felt bad for me I was asingle mom with two kids people
felt bad for me peoplesympathize with me everyone
would tell me how amazing I amthat you know I'm you know not
(22:58):
making much money and I'm alwaysmaking it work like I had
secondary gain was the sympathythat I was getting No one would
be mean to me because they feltbad for me.
All my family would bow to mebecause they were like, you're
struggling with two kids, you'rea single mom with two kids.
There were so many things that Igot away with.
And when I addressed that partof myself, literally within a
(23:19):
year, I went from living week toweek to fully getting my shit
together.
and living quite abundantly,like within like 12 months.
And that was really cool becauseI addressed the thing that I was
actually gaining from thatsituation.
And when I brought that tolight, I was like, ooh, I
actually don't want thisanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
How great that you've got that evolution as
well and from where you were towhere you are now.
How did you become deemed as theShadow Queen and what was your
journey?
I...
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
was the most manipulative toxic unhealthy
human being that i knew and andand that's really where i got
the shadow queen status from notfrom a space of just like
knowing shadow work and beingable to teach it and coach it
but from being someone whotranscended and integrated some
(24:16):
really nasty shadows And that'sthe power of this work.
It's easy to teach shadow work,but can you actually transcend
the things that you're teaching?
So for me, I went from someonewho was completely broke,
reactive, dysregulated, angry,spiteful, judgmental, jealous,
(24:37):
all these intense parts of methat pretty much pretty much
like led my entire life.
I think with the forefront of mypersonality back then, you know,
to someone now who can, youknow, run a multimillion dollar
company with two kids and like,it's easy, right?
There's no drama.
There's no gossip.
(24:58):
There's no like things going onall the time.
It's like, I'm actually createda very grounded, regulated life.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
How has shadow work?
Well, first of all, like, Isthere a place for shadow work
always?
And in self, do you still doshadow work where you are right
now?
Do you continue that journey?
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
There's always a place for shadow work because
there's always a space forownership.
Think about this right now andyou go through someone's day and
they interact with a colleague,they interact with a friend,
they interact with...
Their partner, like every day weare judging and projecting onto
people.
No matter how much shadow workthat you do, there is still
(25:42):
judgments and little things thatgo on during the day where
you're like, oh, why did Ioverreact to that?
Why did I just judge thatperson?
I was, oh, like my tone with mypartner, I was making it mean
that he meant this when reallyhe just meant why.
There is always times where theway that we're viewing reality
and the way that we're viewingothers is distorted, right?
(26:03):
Yeah.
It's distorted.
So there's always going to be aspace for shadow work.
And the way that I look atshadow work, it's like it's
doing, it's pretty much like thework that I do now.
It's making sure that I'm doingshadow work hygiene because the
shadow can come back up again,right?
If you're not constantlycleaning up your projections and
your judgments and you're like,oh, I've done enough shadow work
(26:24):
now.
That's actually your shadowbecause your shadow doesn't want
to be seen.
And that's your ego believingthat you're above the work.
So I still do shadow work.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Do you find now it becomes easier for you to
identify and move through it?
And is it the same things thatkind of come to the surface that
did way back when, when youstarted the journey as well?
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
So what I would say is it's easier because I have a
good relationship to the truth,right?
Is it easier to find?
Sometimes and sometimes not.
Because the journey of shadowwork isn't to become...
unshadowed completely becausethat's how we evolve right like
how else are we meant to evolvethe the whole human evolution is
(27:08):
about seeing where we can bebetter seeing where we're
hurting people we love seeingwhere we're judging others so we
don't have to takeresponsibility for our own so
the journey of shadow work is aforever journey but does it get
easier yes because you get amore comfortable relationship
with the truth
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
A lot of your content now is with your
daughter as well and you learnthrough your family and through
your kids as well.
How does that play out?
from a shadow perspective aswell and dynamic because I can
imagine if something's happeningexternally to you and your kids
(27:51):
they're young or little and andyou know might misbehave in that
moment how do you go oh that'smy shadow here teaching me a
lesson like how how do you learnthrough your kids
SPEAKER_01 (28:01):
yeah this is such a good question because um those
who haven't uh been on my socialmedia yet I teach a lot about
how we project onto our kids soultimately we project onto our
kids to a true different a fewdifferent ways the first way is
projecting unresolved emotions.
So an example of that, let'sjust say I went to work and my
boss fired me, right?
(28:23):
But I didn't speak up or maybehe had a hard conversation with
me and he was rude to me andI've got anger for him.
I don't process that anger.
I go home, my daughter asked meto read with her and I snap at
her.
That's projecting those emotionsfor someone else and because I
didn't process them, now mydaughter has been attacked.
(28:44):
Right.
So that's that.
And most parents, I would say,do that.
You know, they're feelingunsatisfied in their life.
They're feeling anger atthemselves.
They're feeling shame forthemselves.
They're not feeling happy intheir relationship, in their
body, in their career.
And because they're notprocessing their emotions, that
anger and that shame is actuallygetting projected onto their
(29:07):
kids.
Right.
So that's how we know that it'sour shadow.
And a good question to askyourself, does my emotions make
sense for this situation?
Like if my daughter has justsimply asked, or maybe let's
just say she dropped a plate,does my anger, does that really
make sense for my daughter toget yelled at?
(29:27):
Probably not.
It's a plate.
It's an innocent mistake, right?
So when we can start exploring,like, do my emotions make sense
for the situation that I'mdealing with?
Do I feel like I'm overreacting?
Am I feeling shame after myinteraction with my kids?
That's a good indication thatyou're projecting your shadow
onto them.
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
Which I imagine, I don't have kids myself, I can
imagine would be you'd have toreally catch yourself in that
moment, right?
At the same time to...
to recognize that
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
or that we also project our suppressed traits so
if you don't have a goodrelationship to your emotions
when your kids are having bigemotions you will project onto
them you will say things likestop being so silly stop crying
you're being a brat you're beingyou know attention seeking
you're being too much yeah youknow you always whinge when we
(30:22):
don't feel comfortable with theparts of ourselves that they're
currently displaying to us wewill deem them Mm-hmm.
Traits that we've suppressed,traits that we judge in
(30:44):
ourselves, traits that we canonly see in other human beings,
we project that onto otherpeople because we don't want to
witness that in ourselves.
So it's safer for me to meetmyself through you than owning
that that that's actually me orwe project unresolved emotions.
So this is why we're always themost cruel to the people that
(31:05):
are closest to us, right?
We don't want to give thoseemotions to strangers, right?
Because we want to be seen as agood person.
We want to be seen as nice orcalm or regulated, whatever it
is.
But then we go home and we'resuper nasty to the people that
we love.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Which I imagine happens quite often, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
And that's projecting, right?
It's like, I don't want theseemotions to go to this person.
I don't want this reaction to goto this person.
A very good example questionthat I used to ask people quite
a lot, and I actually had anartist question.
The way that you treat yourkids, would you treat your boss
like that?
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
And
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
if you wouldn't, then you shouldn't, right?
And people will often say to me,parents, but I can't help
myself.
Then why can you help yourselfwhen it comes to your boss?
Why can you help yourself whenit comes to being in a job
interview?
It shows that we can control ouremotions, but we just want to
project them onto other people.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
My God, my little brain right now is like ticking.
I shouldn't say my little brain,but you know, it's ticking so
much.
There's so much value in thisand, you know, how it plays out
in everyday life and everyinteraction as well.
And just these little, and I'mlike pretty self-reflective most
of the time, but yeah, justgoing that layer deeper.
UNKNOWN (32:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
it's super exciting as well to be able to have that
awareness that you can do that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
You know what's cool as well?
And this is what I believe aboutshadow work.
When you know you're in arelationship with someone where
it's like, hey, I love you andI'm going to clock my
projections about you.
I'm going to clock my judgmentsabout you.
I'm going to explore thetriggers that come up for me
around you.
I'm going to do that work.
(32:45):
They honestly feel like thesafest human being ever.
The people who are like, I'mcommitted to taking ownership
for where my stuff is, I'mprojecting in and making it your
stuff.
I'm going to clock my shadow.
They're the most safest humanbeings that you know.
So this is also the beauty ofshadow work is you just don't
(33:06):
become someone that you're superproud of.
you become someone that peopleliterally find you 20 times more
attractive because they knowthat they can be their most raw
versions of themselves andthey're not going to be judged.
They're not going to beprojected on.
You're not going to be, youknow, getting triggered by them.
You know, they could be theirmost bold, expressive, most
(33:27):
successful selves and you're nottriggered by them because you've
done the shadow work to clean upyour shit around that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
How has doing this work...
helped in your relationships andalso like with your children
too?
Yeah.
I would say
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
the first part is being able to clock myself
before I make my problems theirproblems.
That's the main thing.
It's like that's the power ofthis work in general.
It's like if I'm feelinginsecure, if I'm clocking that
and I'm doing that shadow workof where I'm feeling insecure,
(34:03):
I'm then not going to projectonto someone to get my power
back, right?
Because when we feel insecure,we seek to feel secure and
powerful.
But if we're not clocking thatpart of ourselves that feel
insecure, it's why we havetrolls online, right?
It's why there's trolls around,right?
People who troll people onlineis because they're not clocking
their shadow.
They're feeling insecure intheir own lives.
(34:25):
So to get that power back, evenif it's for a fleeting moment,
they're going to jump on andtroll people, Same thing.
So it's no different when itcomes to relationships.
When you do shadow work, you'renot projecting your unhealed
shit onto other human beings.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
Do you think there's a fine line?
And I'm like wondering if I'mgoing to articulate this the
right way.
So if you're in a dynamic whereyou do have that open
relationship that you can havethose beautiful conversations
about your shadow, is there afine line that where enough is
too much?
In a way, or you've gone too farin terms of your shadow because
(35:03):
of what stage would someone thenpotentially take that
personally?
Or if someone takes itpersonally, again, that's your
shadow revealing itself.
Like, does it kind of do at somestage damage to the
relationship?
I hope that came out the rightway.
I would say, and I
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
actually do this in a lot of my programs where I
offer like the next phase whereit's like what's the balance of
what's mine but what's yours?
Because we don't want to go intoa room of shadow work where I'm
taking responsibility foreverything that then I allow
toxic shit, right?
Or I don't– I'm constantly–seeing where my responsibility
(35:41):
is that I'm not actually saying,hey, no, this is yours.
This is yours to deal with.
And it has nothing to do withme.
So that's the art of being ableto discern informed versus
affected.
What's mine and what's theirs.
And if you can balance that inyour relationship and be super
honest about it, I couldn't seea time where that would be
(36:02):
unhealthy because our ego isconstantly trying to see where
we're not responsible.
Our ego isn't like, give it allto me.
Like our ego is very rarelygoing to go, unless you've been
doing shadow work.
It's protective.
Yeah, for many years, many,many.
I'm talking like you arecommitted, right?
You are committed.
There's never really going to bea time where there isn't
(36:26):
something in that for you.
Even if it means this person'sin the wrong, but my reaction
is, you know, is keeping thiscycle still going, right?
So there's always something forus to explore.
Okay, cool.
Even a really good example, andI said this on a podcast the
(36:49):
other week, and this can be abit of hard to hear, but even
for me, when I was in an abusiverelationship, I did shadow work
on it.
This is very, very, very longtime ago.
And not from a space of I wasn'tthe victim, but from a space of
what can I learn from thisdynamic to make sure I never
(37:09):
attract it again?
Why am I falling in this?
What's in this for me?
What lesson have I not learnedthat has led me to attract
another abusive relationship?
Right?
So even in the things that webelieve, oh, there's nothing in
it for you.
You're the victim.
It's like, okay, cool.
Well, then you're never going tolearn the lesson.
(37:30):
about why you attracted that inthe first place.
SPEAKER_00 (37:32):
Going into the toxic relationship for a moment, and I
think you talk into this as wellaround you attract cycles and
karmic lessons.
How do you know the differenceand how do you know when you've
cleared that up to then go to Iwant to say the next level, and
(37:53):
I know that's probably not theright terminology to use, but
how do you know that you'vebroken that cycle and it's not
going to repeat itself?
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Such a good question.
And this isn't even inrelationships, it's anything,
isn't it?
It's like a habit, it's abehavior, it's a relationship
with money, whatever it is.
If you can observe the part ofyourself that wants to play it
out, wants to play into it.
So a very good example, let'sjust say one of your karmic
cycles is always attractingunavailable men.
(38:19):
That's a very common one.
It's a very common one, right?
Yes, me, yep.
Right?
The way that you know thatyou're above it or you're on the
way is, firstly, the first stepwould be noticing that you're
attracted to it, interactingwith it a little bit and being
like, ooh, this is that thingagain.
Because in order to evolve outof something, you actually need
(38:40):
to be in it, to feel it.
You need to learn from it,right?
So it's noticing that you wantto be in it and noticing that
you are...
coming up with all thejustifications about why this
time it's okay, but he's okay.
Or he, you know, his mom justsaid it's okay.
Like the justifications that ifyou're aware of the cycle,
(39:01):
that's the first step.
The second step is catching itin hindsight.
If you are able to startcatching in hindsight and really
pull some valuable lessons inthat for you, that means you're
at the next level.
But then the really the toplesson when you're just about to
integrate it is when you canfeel the part of you that wants
(39:22):
to pulsate towards that cycleand that person and you're
attracted you've actuallyattracted it it's there right
and it looks good and it looksdelicious and you want to have a
bite right and you can notice apart of yourself alive and you
choose to not play you choose tonot play And you keep saying to
(39:45):
yourself, I'm not going to play.
I'm not going to play.
And then when they message youfour weeks later or you get
another test from the universe,you say, I choose to not play.
It doesn't mean the feelings andthe impulses go away straight
away.
It doesn't mean that.
Sometimes that's your work.
Your work might be to generate astrong discipline to not attract
(40:08):
people who are emotionallyunavailable to you.
That might be your life's work.
And that's okay, which is reallycool because then you end up
strengthening this part ofyourself.
And then your biggest weaknessbecomes your biggest track.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
Which is great.
And then I guess you can sharethat wisdom too, can't you?
What's been some of the bestadvice that you've ever received
when it comes to your own growthand your own journey besides
shadow work?
SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
I feel like one of my favorite sayings, I don't
know whoever told me this, ormaybe I feel like it's a common
phrase.
I don't know where it came from.
is if it's activating you, it'sin you.
That's been so powerful for mebecause there are so many times,
especially as a shadow workcoach, that I can
intellectualize why it's not myfault, right?
(40:56):
Because I can see things inothers and I'm like, oh, but
they have that, so it's not me,right?
So I'm having that little codeand rule for myself that if it's
activating me in any way, if I'mfeeling consumed by it, if I
can't, you know, let it go,there's a lesson in it for me.
So I would say if it activatesyou, it's in you, has been, you
(41:18):
know, some of my most favoriteadvice.
And then I would say the nextthing is like one thing that I'm
really about that I don't reallyspeak much about on in my
content I used to is having highstandards and like being okay to
have high standards.
Like that's probably one of mymost favorite bits of advice and
someone saying to me like, and Iposted something on my socials
(41:39):
today about it where it's like,if everyone's doing what you're
doing, then you're in themajority, right?
And the majority of peoplearen't great.
There's a very small minority ofpeople doing incredible work.
So I would say, yeah, that too.
If you're looking around andeveryone is doing the things
that you're doing, then you'reprobably doing a mediocre life
(42:03):
and it's time to level up.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Level up.
Absolutely.
What's the next part for you asa shadow coach and shadow world
as well?
So what's your vision and yourmission and how are you
inspiring others through thework that you do?
SPEAKER_01 (42:17):
So I just want to take shadow work mainstream.
Like I want people to belearning about it as kids.
Like I want people to startlearning how to discover their
triggers at my kids' ages.
My kids have been doing shadowwork since they were little
kids, right?
And like even my daughter isprobably one of the most
regulated self-aware kids.
human beings I know and she's 11right and I know it obviously oh
(42:42):
my god how incredible it'sincredible like she will say
things like sorry mom I noticedI was projecting this is what
was coming up for me right thisis the way that I was seeing you
I'm sorry I reacted like thatthis is what I told myself but I
realized it's not true like herlevel of self-awareness is so
powerful so I would say mewanting to take that mainstream
(43:02):
I also want to break the stigmathat shadow work is this like
dark mysterious mystical thingand start making it very like
easy practical and very simplefor people that people can be
doing shadow work in theireveryday life and they don't
need hours of personaldevelopment they need five
minutes a day because I reallydo believe people are doing too
much personal development waytoo much where we've become a
(43:26):
very self-obsessed society whereit's always like figuring out
what's going wrong for me andyou know what was coming up for
me I've got to process thisthing and it's it would becoming
a very self-obsessed you know,society where shadow work is
that beautiful balance of that,where it's just, just be honest
with the actual truth of what'sgoing on.
You won't need to process it.
(43:46):
Right.
So that's, I guess my mission isto make shadow work mainstream
and really take the sycamore outof it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Do you find the more that you do shadow work, it
closes the circle of influencearound you at the same time?
And what I mean by that, youmentioned about, you know, do
you live a mediocre life and soif you're starting to do things
differently you're then theminority so when you're the
minority like yeah you kind of Idon't know is lonely the right
(44:17):
word or is it um or a differenttolerance like it's yeah yeah
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
well I guess there can be a stage of loneliness if
you believe connection meansthat you have to have a lot of
people around you if that's yourversion of connection, then
you're going to go throughmajority circles.
You're going to be attracted towhat the majority is doing.
But for me, I don't know, likeI've got a handful of friends
and even for me, I get moresatiation from hanging out with
(44:48):
one friend who's highlyintelligent, super connected,
super self-aware for one hourthan I used to when I used to
have 50 friends and would be alltogether on a three-day road
trip.
Because I don't know about you,but the most loneliest thing
that I remember feeling the mostlonely time was the time that I
(45:10):
actually had the most peoplearound me.
Because I would sit there inconversations with people like,
why are we talking about this?
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Why are we talking about this?
Why are we talking about them?
Why are we talking about this?
Why are we like...
For me, that felt like theloneliest season of my life.
So I would say no.
Actually, when you level up andyou become a more self-aware
human being, you actually getthe connection that you crave.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
So great.
You've given so many goldennuggets throughout this podcast
as well.
I'm excited to even listen backto it as well because there's so
much wisdom there as well.
What's inspiring you right now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
What's inspiring me right now?
I would say the age that my kidsare at.
Like they're just, my boy's 10and my little girl is 11 and I'm
entering this new stage inparenting where you're really
setting them up for life.
And I'm just learning.
(46:12):
I'm learning and I'mexperiencing and I'm making
mistakes and I'm correcting themand I'm having really cool
conversations.
So I would say my biggestinspiration right now is my kids
and just supporting them throughthis next phase of their life.
And my daughter's going throughpuberty and she's going through
different things.
And I would say that's mybiggest inspiration now.
SPEAKER_00 (46:32):
Has your focus changed a little bit because of
now the ages that they're at aswell?
Well, they
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
can hold deeper conversations now.
Like they understand like we canbalance together now where there
was once upon a time I would,you know, ask them a question
and the answer that they gave mewould literally be the answer.
And they didn't really have theself-awareness to dive deeper
where now I'm having reallypowerful, expansive
conversations with my kids.
(46:58):
So the parenting is a lotdifferent.
The conversations are different.
The way that I can hold space isdifferent.
The way that they can hold spacefor me is different.
And, you know, I can be moreopen and honest with them about
things potentially you know Ineeded to maybe not discuss with
a seven-year-old and and it'sjust a more of an open
relationship now which is cool
SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
how beautiful that the work that you're doing and
yeah the work that you teachothers that you can now have
that relationship with your kidsas well like I can imagine
that's just so incredibly umpowerful and yeah like a really
sense of achievement at the sametime it
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
is Yeah, it's been my biggest reward.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
What's one thing that you were hoping that we
would cover off in today'spodcast that I haven't asked you
or that you're just dying tosay?
Oh, that's good.
I actually didn't have anyexpectations
SPEAKER_01 (47:52):
for today's podcast because my goal for this podcast
wasn't to get what I wanted tosay out.
It was to be open, to beanswered anything.
So I wouldn't say that there wasanything that I was dying to
say.
I feel like you, you askedreally good questions.
SPEAKER_00 (48:12):
Oh, thanks.
I appreciate that.
I love that.
I just, I've got such a curiousmind and I did another podcast
interview actually before yours.
And I was saying to, to thegirl, um, I just want to be the
best version of me.
(48:47):
people are doing great thingsI'm going to ask questions you
know because I'm naturallycurious myself and like oh how
do I apply this to me and mylisteners and how do you share
that so much as well because I'msure there's other people that
you know are going to learnthrough all of this conversation
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
So good well that's a great mindset right the only
way we can grow is throughcuriosity.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
That's all the questions like that that I have
for you like I've absolutelyloved this conversation and I
love what you're doing and youknow every everything that you
stand for and your content aswell.
So yeah, for listeners, makesure that you follow Felicity as
well.
There's so much value in thereand you've given such great
(49:29):
self-reflective questions in theepisode as well.
SPEAKER_01 (49:33):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
Yeah, absolutely loved it.
And thank you for your time.
Welcome to this week's episode of Conversations
(00:03):
That Count.
I'm super excited to have a veryspecial guest, Felicity Morgan,
on my podcast, who is, are younamed the Shadow Queen?
Is that the official title?
That's my title.
The official title that you goby?
I'm owning it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm excited to have you hereand talk all things shadow
because you're a wealth ofknowledge in that space and
(00:24):
yeah, excited to dive deep intothat, what it means and how you
can utilize your shadow work andknow your shadow self in
everyday life and how it playsout as well.
So welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
Yes, me too.
I've been following you for alittle bit, to be honest, and
I've done a couple of yourmasterclasses now, and I was
just like, the other weekend,I'm like, why not?
I'm just going to reach out toyou and see if you'd like to be
a guest, and yeah, so happy thatyou said yes, and yeah, you're
here, so thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
You are so welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
So firstly, what is shadow work, and why?
what is shadow self like maybethat's and that's probably a
pretty big question to startwith but i feel like let's go
there
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
right yeah because i feel like a lot of people know
what shadow work is but theirview of it is quite limited and
what i would say is what peopleprobably resonate with shadow
work with is potentially theirdarker self like a lot of people
resonate they know that they'vegot a darker self we know we
have this part of us that judgesthat reacts, that has impulses,
(01:32):
desires, patterns and cycles andbehaviors that we feel shame
around.
And that really is your shadow.
Your shadow is a part of youthat you deny, that you
suppress, that you judge.
in others you get triggered inothers about and it's also the
part of you the other flip ofthat is your light self as well
so the parts of you that you'vesuppressed because you believe
(01:55):
they're going to get judgment orheat or you know frustration
from others and this can bethings from you know sexuality
it could be joy it can beexcitement it can be you know
being loud it could be alldifferent parts of ourselves so
really the shadow is twodifferent pieces And it's like,
it's either what you'resuppressing or what you're
(02:18):
overexpressing, right?
So let's just say anger.
A lot of people have anoverexpressed anger where when
they connect to that emotion orthat emotion is present for
them, it comes out in reallydestructive ways.
doesn't it?
Or some people are the oppositewhere they've suppressed that
part of themselves.
So that part of them is quitesubmissive.
(02:39):
They hold it in, right?
And so really that's what theshadow is, is when we have
distorted parts of ourselveswhere they're not healthily
integrated.
We don't have a goodrelationship to that part of our
personality.
So it acts out in ways that welater regret.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
So how do you find...
What your shadow is as well.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
Yeah.
So I would say a couple ofdifferent things is what do you
judge in others?
What do you judge in others?
What are you so, what issomething that someone else does
that you get so triggered by?
You're so passionate.
You feel so annoyed by.
That's a really good indicationthat they're mirroring something
(03:22):
to you that you're denying oryou're not seeing in yourself.
Or that you've suppressed.
Because sometimes you're gettingtriggered because you're like, I
wish I could show up like that.
I wish I could do that.
I wish I had a good relationshipto that part of myself.
Or sometimes it's, I don't wantto see this part of myself.
So I'm going to project ontoyou, judge you, make you wrong.
(03:46):
Because that feels easier thanowning that I'm just like you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
How good, like that reflection piece as well.
And when you do feel...
So when you do meet someone andyou are triggered by them or you
have that judgment, how do youknow that it's not just a
judgment on them and it'sactually you as well?
Like, is there a differencethere?
SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Really good question.
I feel like that's going to beso helpful to your audience.
The terminology that I like touse is, are you informed or are
you affected?
So if you are informed bysomeone's behavior, you're able
to observe them from a neutralspace.
You're able to go, oh, like thatperson's really loud.
I wonder what's going on forthem.
(04:30):
Oh, that person is being reallyloud.
And, you know, it's making mefeel uncomfortable, right?
But when you're affected by it,you're going, oh, that person's
really loud.
They're ignorant.
They're mean.
They're cruel.
They're up themselves.
You're putting characteristicsand judgments towards what
you're observing.
But when we're neutrallyobserving something and we're
like, oh, I noticed that personbeing condescending.
(04:52):
I'm not taking it personally.
I'm not judging them for it.
I'm just observing it and I canpolitely remove myself because
it's not for me.
That's when you know that you'reinformed by someone's behavior,
but you're not having a reactionto it.
You're able to respond to it,right?
So an example, let's just sayyou're with one of your
girlfriends and they'regossiping.
(05:14):
Just because you're noticingthey're gossiping doesn't mean
that you're a gossiper.
But if they're gossiping andyou're so triggered by it and
then you're assassinating themwith names, even in your mind,
even in your self-talk, that's areally good indication that
there's a reason why you'refeeling so affected by it.
It's because you know there's apart of you that does that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:39):
And when you say trigger, so how would you
classify a trigger in terms of,is it a thought?
Is it a feeling?
Is it just like, what's theindication within you that
you're triggered by someone elseas well?
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
So right now you're probably breathing perfectly.
You're probably having notreally any thoughts, right?
Anytime your body goes fromgrounded, regulated, neutral,
and it goes to any height whereyou're feeling dysregulated,
you're not feeling neutral,you're feeling passionate.
Even being passionate is a formof dysregulation.
It's being triggered into aresponse part, right?
(06:15):
That it's just about what typeof trigger you're currently
experiencing.
But a trigger really is any timethat you are experiencing an
ungrounded version of yourself.
And a lot of people can't touchthat.
Right.
A lot of people think thatthey're grounded.
They're like, oh, I'm nottriggered.
I'm like, you are because youare unable to respond how you
would if you weren't affectedright now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
So it's a reaction mode as well rather than
responding.
Yeah.
And it's so great.
I feel like triggers are such agreat message for us.
And when you can start to tuneinto exactly what that is, then
it opens it up to exploring thatfurther and uncovering parts of
you to heal and When it comes topersonal development and knowing
(07:00):
that, and there's differentlayers, I guess, of that
self-development and probablyyour conscious awareness,
unconscious awareness.
And then you, I think yesterdayyou were describing it then as
your shadow self as well.
It's like a next layer.
Like how does that then all...
work together and weave togetherin a way?
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Well, the cool thing about the shadow, because it is
really a layer deeper than theunconscious, right?
Because it's really the part ofourselves that we have zero
consciousness of.
Even there's parts of you rightnow that you're not fully
conscious of.
So they're sitting in yourunconscious, but you can pull
that part of yourself outstrategically when needed,
right?
(07:38):
So an example, let's just saysomeone, a very good example, is
let's just say someone knowsthat they overeat.
That's an unconscious part ofthemselves.
So they binge eat, right?
But in the present moment whenthey're about to do it, they're
unable to catch that part ofthemselves because it's
unconscious.
But then there's some peoplewhere it's like they're actually
fully unaware that they bingeeat.
(07:59):
Like if you said to them, areyou binge eating?
They'd be like, I've never donethat.
That shows shadow where you'reso out of awareness of it.
You're so disconnected from it.
It doesn't even really make itto your conscious self.
And a very good example of it inone of my core foundational
programs, Conscious Body, I talkabout the four levels of shadow.
(08:20):
So there's things that we areconsciously aware that we're
doing, but they're notintegrated, right?
So we're aware that we haveanger outbursts, but we can't
control it.
Right?
So that's really unconsciousstuff, right?
But then there's parts of uswhere we are unaware of that
part of ourself and we can'tcontrol it, that shatter.
(08:42):
It's like, we're unaware of it.
We're unaware of when we'redoing it.
We're only catching it inhindsight.
And we have zero control of it.
So shadow work is that layer ofdeeper.
And this is really cool becausethe shadow is the things that
are predominantly running yourlife.
You know, your unconscious selfthat comes up sometimes that you
(09:02):
have some level of control overor some level of awareness of
aren't doing the damage that theshadow is doing.
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
So how do you bring that into your awareness?
Because if you're unconsciousand you're just going through
the motions and just doingthings, then I'm not going to
go, oh, that's my shadow self.
Okay, now I get to or I chooseto work through that.
If you're doing thingsunconsciously, how do you catch
yourself in those moments aswell and bring that to the
surface?
(09:31):
And
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
this is the beauty when you were speaking about
triggers before and I was goingto say it and then I was like,
well, we'll speak about it soon.
Triggers are the biggest giftbecause they are pathways to
your shadow.
Right?
It's like, ooh, I'm triggeredhere.
Why am I so triggered by this?
What's in this for me?
Right?
So triggers and projections aregoing to be your gateways to
(09:53):
your shadow.
So projections, for people whodon't know, are generalized
statements that you put ontosituations of people that aren't
really true.
Or maybe they were true onceupon a time for a short period
of time or once and you just–generalize that or you
(10:14):
experience yourself throughanother human being right so you
experience someone's anger youexperience your anger and your
anger for your anger throughanother human being so when we
start making generalizedstatements of people making
judgments In a pointing fingersat people, getting triggered by
(10:37):
people, that's going to help usbring that awareness to our
internal self.
So anytime that you'reinteracting externally with
other people, you're going to beable to do shadow work if you
choose the art of contemplationand self-reflection.
So the art of that really iscuriosity, right?
(10:58):
So if you can start gettingcurious around, hey, I wonder if
like the way that I'm viewing mypartner right now isn't actually
true.
I wonder if I'm triggeredbecause I'm actually just like
them.
I wonder if the way that I'mexperiencing them, right, is
actually a strategy by my shadowself.
(11:19):
So I don't need to meet the partof me that's doing X, Y, and Z,
right?
So it's this art of likecontemplation and curiosity,
like questioning things insteadof committing to your shadows
and committing to your triggersand committing to your
projections and committing toyour judgments.
You get curious about it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
I love the word curiosity so much.
And if we meet everything incuriosity, then we get the
opportunity to learn through itat the same time rather than
just have that acceptance ofwhatever is happening as well.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
What's our kids one?
That's the reason why kids gofrom like a zero to 100 so
quickly because they're in thisstate of curiosity.
They're interested in like, oh,who am I?
What am I doing?
What am I here for?
What do I like?
What do I don't like?
But then eventually we get to anadulthood and somehow we just
decide curiosity is no longer athing that we want to dabble in
(12:11):
because we're committed.
to be seen as the way that wewant to be seen and we don't
want to be challenged on thatbut okay cool i'm done now i
don't want to be curious anymorei just want to this is who i am
and this is how i like to beseen and this is how i'm going
to present myself to the worldand anyone who challenges that
they're out anyone whochallenges that they're not for
me anyone who challenges me inthat is you know negative
(12:33):
whatever it is so curiosityreally is the foundation of
shadow work it's getting back tothat curious expanded self when
you were younger
SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Where was I going to go with that?
I think you mentioned about thepeople around you as well and
calling you out.
I think you posted somethingthis morning.
I think it was this morningabout your friends and
essentially like how good areyour friends and do they call
you out on your bullshit?
How do you create an environmentthat you or relationship with
(13:04):
your friends that you can thencall each other out on things
that potentially are yourshadows rather than accepting
people's behavior and going ohthat's just them or um are they
just having an off day orthey're just being a bit bitchy
or whatever the the term youwant to use how do you actually
yeah set up that environment
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
Firstly, I would say, let's take a step back and
go, why are you in thatenvironment in the first place?
So why have you got arelationship where either one,
you don't feel safe to call yourfriends out or two, you're in a
dynamic where you both don'tcall each other forward.
And I'm going to say to you,both of you are gaining from
that situation and that dynamicbecause a lot of people identify
(13:51):
love as someone who supports meand validates me and comforts
me, where when you look into therealms of shadow work, we look
at love as a space of someonewho calls out your potential,
calls you forward, doesn't letyou play in your shadow, doesn't
let you play out toxic cycles,doesn't let you play out
patterns.
(14:11):
So I think even before going,how do I do that?
We actually need to go into aspace of self-responsibility and
go, why do I have that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:22):
Why
SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
do I have that?
Because it's great to, you know,I could bring you a framework to
do, but if you're stillcommitted to the secondary gain
of being in a relationship whereno one calls you out, then no
framework is going to help you.
So I think it's really importantto understand and observe our
relationships and being like,okay, cool.
(14:43):
Like, am I believing that theylove me because they're
validating me or not?
how do I want to view love?
And for me, I believe the mostunconditional love that you can
give someone is going, hey, Ican see what you're doing and
I'm not going to let you dothat.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
How great to have people around you that can
actually do that for you at thesame time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
But it's also the most triggering thing because in
my post today, what I said, themost dangerous friend to have is
someone who agrees with you allthe time.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
We
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
don't want someone to be agreeing with us all the
time.
We're not meant to be thesesubmissive people.
children, right?
We're adults who have differentopinions and different
perspectives.
We can learn from each other.
Like even right now, there isthings that you're seeing in me
that I'm unaware of, right?
If you're agreeing to exactlyhow I like to see myself and how
I like to be presented and how Iwant you to see me, right?
(15:38):
I'm never going to learnanything more about myself than
how I'm currently seeing myself.
So the power of being able touse other people and leverage
other people to build yourinternal awareness is super
powerful because if we're onlydoing personal development from
a space of just using our ownobservations, just using our own
discoveries, we're actually notdoing the inner work.
(16:00):
We're doing– I'm fueling andfeeding my ego.
I'm finding things within mycurrent state of awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
That is so great.
I don't think I've really heardit put that way as well, like
using other people around you toactually– yeah to grow as well
because yeah you can you canconcentrate as much as you want
on yourself but then it's alsoin the relationships and the
dynamics and having the exactsame conversation with them and
growing through that as wellbecause they're always going to
(16:28):
bring new things to the surfacefor you
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
yeah because even even from a space of building
confidence like some a littlepractice that my girlfriends and
I do together is you know whatare three traits that you love
about me that potentially I'mnot utilizing or seeing like
When I've asked those questionsto my friends, I'm like, oh my
gosh, how do you see that in me?
And eventually what ended uphappening was I would constantly
(16:53):
get that reassurance from myfriends and those reflections.
I ended up leveraging thoseparts.
And that's really cool, right?
Because there is parts of yourbiggest strengths right now.
And like, I don't know if you'rein a relationship or not, but
like even a best friend,whatever it is, they can see
that part of you, but you haveno awareness to have been there.
So you're not leveraging it.
You're not leveraging it in yourpodcast.
(17:14):
You're not leveraging it in yourbusiness.
You're not leveraging it in yourrelationships.
But having the power of otherpeople being able to reflect
things to us is so powerfulbecause it opens up our
awareness.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I love that so much.
And yeah, I'm here like thinkingabout, you know, people in my
life at the moment as well andthe conversations I have with
them and how like I just lovedthe What can you see in me that
I might not see?
It's such a beautiful andpowering question at the same
time.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
And that's cool as well because it just goes to
show shadow work isn't alwaysnegative.
It's about building a power thatwe are unable to see.
So it's also, it's like, Hey,Hey, how can I address the parts
of me that's sabotaging me?
You know, the, the darker sideof myself where, you know, I'm
being destructive, I'm beingunhealthy, I'm being toxic, I'm
being, you know, whatever it is,but also what parts of me am I
(18:04):
not leveraging?
What parts of my strengths thatI'm not seeing that I'm not even
noticing that this is actuallyan incredible part of myself
because we've been in our ownbodies and our own minds.
I don't know about you, but I'm,35 from memory, turning 35 this
year actually, like you get usedto your personality.
So it doesn't feel like new andshiny.
You don't really get to knowwhat is, what makes you
(18:27):
different.
But using people and leveragingshadow work allows you to
self-reflect with other humanbeings and learn more about
yourself through other humans.
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
It's like a growth, continuous growth cycle, right?
UNKNOWN (18:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
You mentioned about secondary gain earlier as well.
Like what is secondary gain?
And when you find yourself in anenvironment that you are feeling
triggered, how do you uncoverwhat that secondary gain is?
SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
So secondary gain is pretty much anything and
everything that you claim thatyou dislike or hate about your
life right now.
You wouldn't continue to play itout or you wouldn't continue to
have that unless you weregaining something from it.
So shadow work plays in therealm of you are attracting
everything that you want.
Whether the want is unhealthyfor you, there still is gain.
(19:21):
And that can be really hard tosee.
And it can be really hard tohear because there's, you know,
some things that you're like, Iwould do anything to get rid of
this.
And I'm not saying that youdon't want that, but I'm here to
tell you that the thing thatyou're gaining from that thing
right now, you're not willing togive up.
UNKNOWN (19:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
So have you got an example that you can provide?
Like if we go back to when youwere talking about the
friendship group as well andpotentially toxic or you're not
calling each other forward.
How would you uncover asecondary gain from that?
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
Okay, so let's say you're in a friendship where
you're feeling like you're themost self-aware one.
You're coaching your friend,she's always going through
breakups and, you know, datingfuckboys and you're feeling like
you're always like being therefor her, right?
You're always the ears, you'realways holding her and you're
feeling like, I feel like a lackof support in that relationship.
(20:16):
Most people are will go intovictim mode.
Poor me, I have no friends thatcare about me or support me.
I'm always the one helpingeveryone else.
They'll go into that victimhood.
What I will say to you is for aslong as you are the most
self-aware one, you're alwaysthe one supporting you, you
don't need to be seen in yourshadow.
(20:37):
You don't need to be vulnerable.
You don't need to be honest.
You don't need to be honestabout the parts of you that need
support.
There is always secondary gainin every single thing that we
do.
And the way that we usually findit is asking ourselves a simple
question is, I love this cycle.
I love this relationship.
(20:57):
I love X, Y, and Z because I getto...
What do you get to do?
Who do you get to be?
that you secretly love.
Once again, I'm not doing victimlanguage.
Victim language is, you know, Iget to not be supported.
It's like, no, you get to hide.
You get to feel superior.
You get to feel superior in thatrelationship because you're the
(21:19):
self-aware one.
She's dating the fuckboys.
You're not.
You're the one who's able tocoach her, right?
So it's even seeing in thosedynamics that we say that we
dislike and we wish, you know,we'd our life and our
relationships would be wildlydifferent.
I've never not seen someone havesecondary gain in something that
they claim that they hate.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Such a beautiful question.
I was going to ask you, like,what's one of your favourite
questions, but I feel like thatone there is brilliant.
SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
So good.
And I shared this on, I don'tknow where I shared this
recently, so it doesn't reallymatter.
But I remember there was a timelike I came from, you know, I'm
well off now and I have anincredible business and very
established.
But there was once upon a timewhere I was literally like, had
no money like I would sometimesmy account would get down to 10
bucks 100 bucks and two kids andI remember doing shadow work on
(22:14):
myself and being like what isthe secondary gain in this like
I'm saying I want to make moneyand I'm saying I want this but
somehow I'm in these cycles ofmaking money and then somehow it
just goes like I would literallyget the most random bills of
like you know electricitycompany you know looking for me
from three years ago and it'slike a thousand bucks I'm like
what is going on like I would Iwould attract people so much
(22:36):
pain and attract so much likebad luck let's just say and I
remember having thisconversation with myself and
realizing that when I struggledI got attention from my mom my
mom felt bad for me I was asingle mom with two kids people
felt bad for me peoplesympathize with me everyone
would tell me how amazing I amthat you know I'm you know not
(22:58):
making much money and I'm alwaysmaking it work like I had
secondary gain was the sympathythat I was getting No one would
be mean to me because they feltbad for me.
All my family would bow to mebecause they were like, you're
struggling with two kids, you'rea single mom with two kids.
There were so many things that Igot away with.
And when I addressed that partof myself, literally within a
(23:19):
year, I went from living week toweek to fully getting my shit
together.
and living quite abundantly,like within like 12 months.
And that was really cool becauseI addressed the thing that I was
actually gaining from thatsituation.
And when I brought that tolight, I was like, ooh, I
actually don't want thisanymore.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
How great that you've got that evolution as
well and from where you were towhere you are now.
How did you become deemed as theShadow Queen and what was your
journey?
I...
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
was the most manipulative toxic unhealthy
human being that i knew and andand that's really where i got
the shadow queen status from notfrom a space of just like
knowing shadow work and beingable to teach it and coach it
but from being someone whotranscended and integrated some
(24:16):
really nasty shadows And that'sthe power of this work.
It's easy to teach shadow work,but can you actually transcend
the things that you're teaching?
So for me, I went from someonewho was completely broke,
reactive, dysregulated, angry,spiteful, judgmental, jealous,
(24:37):
all these intense parts of methat pretty much pretty much
like led my entire life.
I think with the forefront of mypersonality back then, you know,
to someone now who can, youknow, run a multimillion dollar
company with two kids and like,it's easy, right?
There's no drama.
There's no gossip.
(24:58):
There's no like things going onall the time.
It's like, I'm actually createda very grounded, regulated life.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
How has shadow work?
Well, first of all, like, Isthere a place for shadow work
always?
And in self, do you still doshadow work where you are right
now?
Do you continue that journey?
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
There's always a place for shadow work because
there's always a space forownership.
Think about this right now andyou go through someone's day and
they interact with a colleague,they interact with a friend,
they interact with...
Their partner, like every day weare judging and projecting onto
people.
No matter how much shadow workthat you do, there is still
(25:42):
judgments and little things thatgo on during the day where
you're like, oh, why did Ioverreact to that?
Why did I just judge thatperson?
I was, oh, like my tone with mypartner, I was making it mean
that he meant this when reallyhe just meant why.
There is always times where theway that we're viewing reality
and the way that we're viewingothers is distorted, right?
(26:03):
Yeah.
It's distorted.
So there's always going to be aspace for shadow work.
And the way that I look atshadow work, it's like it's
doing, it's pretty much like thework that I do now.
It's making sure that I'm doingshadow work hygiene because the
shadow can come back up again,right?
If you're not constantlycleaning up your projections and
your judgments and you're like,oh, I've done enough shadow work
(26:24):
now.
That's actually your shadowbecause your shadow doesn't want
to be seen.
And that's your ego believingthat you're above the work.
So I still do shadow work.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Do you find now it becomes easier for you to
identify and move through it?
And is it the same things thatkind of come to the surface that
did way back when, when youstarted the journey as well?
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
So what I would say is it's easier because I have a
good relationship to the truth,right?
Is it easier to find?
Sometimes and sometimes not.
Because the journey of shadowwork isn't to become...
unshadowed completely becausethat's how we evolve right like
how else are we meant to evolvethe the whole human evolution is
(27:08):
about seeing where we can bebetter seeing where we're
hurting people we love seeingwhere we're judging others so we
don't have to takeresponsibility for our own so
the journey of shadow work is aforever journey but does it get
easier yes because you get amore comfortable relationship
with the truth
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
A lot of your content now is with your
daughter as well and you learnthrough your family and through
your kids as well.
How does that play out?
from a shadow perspective aswell and dynamic because I can
imagine if something's happeningexternally to you and your kids
(27:51):
they're young or little and andyou know might misbehave in that
moment how do you go oh that'smy shadow here teaching me a
lesson like how how do you learnthrough your kids
SPEAKER_01 (28:01):
yeah this is such a good question because um those
who haven't uh been on my socialmedia yet I teach a lot about
how we project onto our kids soultimately we project onto our
kids to a true different a fewdifferent ways the first way is
projecting unresolved emotions.
So an example of that, let'sjust say I went to work and my
boss fired me, right?
(28:23):
But I didn't speak up or maybehe had a hard conversation with
me and he was rude to me andI've got anger for him.
I don't process that anger.
I go home, my daughter asked meto read with her and I snap at
her.
That's projecting those emotionsfor someone else and because I
didn't process them, now mydaughter has been attacked.
(28:44):
Right.
So that's that.
And most parents, I would say,do that.
You know, they're feelingunsatisfied in their life.
They're feeling anger atthemselves.
They're feeling shame forthemselves.
They're not feeling happy intheir relationship, in their
body, in their career.
And because they're notprocessing their emotions, that
anger and that shame is actuallygetting projected onto their
(29:07):
kids.
Right.
So that's how we know that it'sour shadow.
And a good question to askyourself, does my emotions make
sense for this situation?
Like if my daughter has justsimply asked, or maybe let's
just say she dropped a plate,does my anger, does that really
make sense for my daughter toget yelled at?
(29:27):
Probably not.
It's a plate.
It's an innocent mistake, right?
So when we can start exploring,like, do my emotions make sense
for the situation that I'mdealing with?
Do I feel like I'm overreacting?
Am I feeling shame after myinteraction with my kids?
That's a good indication thatyou're projecting your shadow
onto them.
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
Which I imagine, I don't have kids myself, I can
imagine would be you'd have toreally catch yourself in that
moment, right?
At the same time to...
to recognize that
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
or that we also project our suppressed traits so
if you don't have a goodrelationship to your emotions
when your kids are having bigemotions you will project onto
them you will say things likestop being so silly stop crying
you're being a brat you're beingyou know attention seeking
you're being too much yeah youknow you always whinge when we
(30:22):
don't feel comfortable with theparts of ourselves that they're
currently displaying to us wewill deem them Mm-hmm.
Traits that we've suppressed,traits that we judge in
(30:44):
ourselves, traits that we canonly see in other human beings,
we project that onto otherpeople because we don't want to
witness that in ourselves.
So it's safer for me to meetmyself through you than owning
that that that's actually me orwe project unresolved emotions.
So this is why we're always themost cruel to the people that
(31:05):
are closest to us, right?
We don't want to give thoseemotions to strangers, right?
Because we want to be seen as agood person.
We want to be seen as nice orcalm or regulated, whatever it
is.
But then we go home and we'resuper nasty to the people that
we love.
SPEAKER_00 (31:23):
Which I imagine happens quite often, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
And that's projecting, right?
It's like, I don't want theseemotions to go to this person.
I don't want this reaction to goto this person.
A very good example questionthat I used to ask people quite
a lot, and I actually had anartist question.
The way that you treat yourkids, would you treat your boss
like that?
SPEAKER_02 (31:41):
And
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
if you wouldn't, then you shouldn't, right?
And people will often say to me,parents, but I can't help
myself.
Then why can you help yourselfwhen it comes to your boss?
Why can you help yourself whenit comes to being in a job
interview?
It shows that we can control ouremotions, but we just want to
project them onto other people.
SPEAKER_00 (32:01):
My God, my little brain right now is like ticking.
I shouldn't say my little brain,but you know, it's ticking so
much.
There's so much value in thisand, you know, how it plays out
in everyday life and everyinteraction as well.
And just these little, and I'mlike pretty self-reflective most
of the time, but yeah, justgoing that layer deeper.
UNKNOWN (32:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
it's super exciting as well to be able to have that
awareness that you can do that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
You know what's cool as well?
And this is what I believe aboutshadow work.
When you know you're in arelationship with someone where
it's like, hey, I love you andI'm going to clock my
projections about you.
I'm going to clock my judgmentsabout you.
I'm going to explore thetriggers that come up for me
around you.
I'm going to do that work.
(32:45):
They honestly feel like thesafest human being ever.
The people who are like, I'mcommitted to taking ownership
for where my stuff is, I'mprojecting in and making it your
stuff.
I'm going to clock my shadow.
They're the most safest humanbeings that you know.
So this is also the beauty ofshadow work is you just don't
(33:06):
become someone that you're superproud of.
you become someone that peopleliterally find you 20 times more
attractive because they knowthat they can be their most raw
versions of themselves andthey're not going to be judged.
They're not going to beprojected on.
You're not going to be, youknow, getting triggered by them.
You know, they could be theirmost bold, expressive, most
(33:27):
successful selves and you're nottriggered by them because you've
done the shadow work to clean upyour shit around that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
How has doing this work...
helped in your relationships andalso like with your children
too?
Yeah.
I would say
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
the first part is being able to clock myself
before I make my problems theirproblems.
That's the main thing.
It's like that's the power ofthis work in general.
It's like if I'm feelinginsecure, if I'm clocking that
and I'm doing that shadow workof where I'm feeling insecure,
(34:03):
I'm then not going to projectonto someone to get my power
back, right?
Because when we feel insecure,we seek to feel secure and
powerful.
But if we're not clocking thatpart of ourselves that feel
insecure, it's why we havetrolls online, right?
It's why there's trolls around,right?
People who troll people onlineis because they're not clocking
their shadow.
They're feeling insecure intheir own lives.
(34:25):
So to get that power back, evenif it's for a fleeting moment,
they're going to jump on andtroll people, Same thing.
So it's no different when itcomes to relationships.
When you do shadow work, you'renot projecting your unhealed
shit onto other human beings.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
Do you think there's a fine line?
And I'm like wondering if I'mgoing to articulate this the
right way.
So if you're in a dynamic whereyou do have that open
relationship that you can havethose beautiful conversations
about your shadow, is there afine line that where enough is
too much?
In a way, or you've gone too farin terms of your shadow because
(35:03):
of what stage would someone thenpotentially take that
personally?
Or if someone takes itpersonally, again, that's your
shadow revealing itself.
Like, does it kind of do at somestage damage to the
relationship?
I hope that came out the rightway.
I would say, and I
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
actually do this in a lot of my programs where I
offer like the next phase whereit's like what's the balance of
what's mine but what's yours?
Because we don't want to go intoa room of shadow work where I'm
taking responsibility foreverything that then I allow
toxic shit, right?
Or I don't– I'm constantly–seeing where my responsibility
(35:41):
is that I'm not actually saying,hey, no, this is yours.
This is yours to deal with.
And it has nothing to do withme.
So that's the art of being ableto discern informed versus
affected.
What's mine and what's theirs.
And if you can balance that inyour relationship and be super
honest about it, I couldn't seea time where that would be
(36:02):
unhealthy because our ego isconstantly trying to see where
we're not responsible.
Our ego isn't like, give it allto me.
Like our ego is very rarelygoing to go, unless you've been
doing shadow work.
It's protective.
Yeah, for many years, many,many.
I'm talking like you arecommitted, right?
You are committed.
There's never really going to bea time where there isn't
(36:26):
something in that for you.
Even if it means this person'sin the wrong, but my reaction
is, you know, is keeping thiscycle still going, right?
So there's always something forus to explore.
Okay, cool.
Even a really good example, andI said this on a podcast the
(36:49):
other week, and this can be abit of hard to hear, but even
for me, when I was in an abusiverelationship, I did shadow work
on it.
This is very, very, very longtime ago.
And not from a space of I wasn'tthe victim, but from a space of
what can I learn from thisdynamic to make sure I never
(37:09):
attract it again?
Why am I falling in this?
What's in this for me?
What lesson have I not learnedthat has led me to attract
another abusive relationship?
Right?
So even in the things that webelieve, oh, there's nothing in
it for you.
You're the victim.
It's like, okay, cool.
Well, then you're never going tolearn the lesson.
(37:30):
about why you attracted that inthe first place.
SPEAKER_00 (37:32):
Going into the toxic relationship for a moment, and I
think you talk into this as wellaround you attract cycles and
karmic lessons.
How do you know the differenceand how do you know when you've
cleared that up to then go to Iwant to say the next level, and
(37:53):
I know that's probably not theright terminology to use, but
how do you know that you'vebroken that cycle and it's not
going to repeat itself?
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Such a good question.
And this isn't even inrelationships, it's anything,
isn't it?
It's like a habit, it's abehavior, it's a relationship
with money, whatever it is.
If you can observe the part ofyourself that wants to play it
out, wants to play into it.
So a very good example, let'sjust say one of your karmic
cycles is always attractingunavailable men.
(38:19):
That's a very common one.
It's a very common one, right?
Yes, me, yep.
Right?
The way that you know thatyou're above it or you're on the
way is, firstly, the first stepwould be noticing that you're
attracted to it, interactingwith it a little bit and being
like, ooh, this is that thingagain.
Because in order to evolve outof something, you actually need
(38:40):
to be in it, to feel it.
You need to learn from it,right?
So it's noticing that you wantto be in it and noticing that
you are...
coming up with all thejustifications about why this
time it's okay, but he's okay.
Or he, you know, his mom justsaid it's okay.
Like the justifications that ifyou're aware of the cycle,
(39:01):
that's the first step.
The second step is catching itin hindsight.
If you are able to startcatching in hindsight and really
pull some valuable lessons inthat for you, that means you're
at the next level.
But then the really the toplesson when you're just about to
integrate it is when you canfeel the part of you that wants
(39:22):
to pulsate towards that cycleand that person and you're
attracted you've actuallyattracted it it's there right
and it looks good and it looksdelicious and you want to have a
bite right and you can notice apart of yourself alive and you
choose to not play you choose tonot play And you keep saying to
(39:45):
yourself, I'm not going to play.
I'm not going to play.
And then when they message youfour weeks later or you get
another test from the universe,you say, I choose to not play.
It doesn't mean the feelings andthe impulses go away straight
away.
It doesn't mean that.
Sometimes that's your work.
Your work might be to generate astrong discipline to not attract
(40:08):
people who are emotionallyunavailable to you.
That might be your life's work.
And that's okay, which is reallycool because then you end up
strengthening this part ofyourself.
And then your biggest weaknessbecomes your biggest track.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
Which is great.
And then I guess you can sharethat wisdom too, can't you?
What's been some of the bestadvice that you've ever received
when it comes to your own growthand your own journey besides
shadow work?
SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
I feel like one of my favorite sayings, I don't
know whoever told me this, ormaybe I feel like it's a common
phrase.
I don't know where it came from.
is if it's activating you, it'sin you.
That's been so powerful for mebecause there are so many times,
especially as a shadow workcoach, that I can
intellectualize why it's not myfault, right?
(40:56):
Because I can see things inothers and I'm like, oh, but
they have that, so it's not me,right?
So I'm having that little codeand rule for myself that if it's
activating me in any way, if I'mfeeling consumed by it, if I
can't, you know, let it go,there's a lesson in it for me.
So I would say if it activatesyou, it's in you, has been, you
(41:18):
know, some of my most favoriteadvice.
And then I would say the nextthing is like one thing that I'm
really about that I don't reallyspeak much about on in my
content I used to is having highstandards and like being okay to
have high standards.
Like that's probably one of mymost favorite bits of advice and
someone saying to me like, and Iposted something on my socials
(41:39):
today about it where it's like,if everyone's doing what you're
doing, then you're in themajority, right?
And the majority of peoplearen't great.
There's a very small minority ofpeople doing incredible work.
So I would say, yeah, that too.
If you're looking around andeveryone is doing the things
that you're doing, then you'reprobably doing a mediocre life
(42:03):
and it's time to level up.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Level up.
Absolutely.
What's the next part for you asa shadow coach and shadow world
as well?
So what's your vision and yourmission and how are you
inspiring others through thework that you do?
SPEAKER_01 (42:17):
So I just want to take shadow work mainstream.
Like I want people to belearning about it as kids.
Like I want people to startlearning how to discover their
triggers at my kids' ages.
My kids have been doing shadowwork since they were little
kids, right?
And like even my daughter isprobably one of the most
regulated self-aware kids.
human beings I know and she's 11right and I know it obviously oh
(42:42):
my god how incredible it'sincredible like she will say
things like sorry mom I noticedI was projecting this is what
was coming up for me right thisis the way that I was seeing you
I'm sorry I reacted like thatthis is what I told myself but I
realized it's not true like herlevel of self-awareness is so
powerful so I would say mewanting to take that mainstream
(43:02):
I also want to break the stigmathat shadow work is this like
dark mysterious mystical thingand start making it very like
easy practical and very simplefor people that people can be
doing shadow work in theireveryday life and they don't
need hours of personaldevelopment they need five
minutes a day because I reallydo believe people are doing too
much personal development waytoo much where we've become a
(43:26):
very self-obsessed society whereit's always like figuring out
what's going wrong for me andyou know what was coming up for
me I've got to process thisthing and it's it would becoming
a very self-obsessed you know,society where shadow work is
that beautiful balance of that,where it's just, just be honest
with the actual truth of what'sgoing on.
You won't need to process it.
(43:46):
Right.
So that's, I guess my mission isto make shadow work mainstream
and really take the sycamore outof it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Do you find the more that you do shadow work, it
closes the circle of influencearound you at the same time?
And what I mean by that, youmentioned about, you know, do
you live a mediocre life and soif you're starting to do things
differently you're then theminority so when you're the
minority like yeah you kind of Idon't know is lonely the right
(44:17):
word or is it um or a differenttolerance like it's yeah yeah
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
well I guess there can be a stage of loneliness if
you believe connection meansthat you have to have a lot of
people around you if that's yourversion of connection, then
you're going to go throughmajority circles.
You're going to be attracted towhat the majority is doing.
But for me, I don't know, likeI've got a handful of friends
and even for me, I get moresatiation from hanging out with
(44:48):
one friend who's highlyintelligent, super connected,
super self-aware for one hourthan I used to when I used to
have 50 friends and would be alltogether on a three-day road
trip.
Because I don't know about you,but the most loneliest thing
that I remember feeling the mostlonely time was the time that I
(45:10):
actually had the most peoplearound me.
Because I would sit there inconversations with people like,
why are we talking about this?
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Why are we talking about this?
Why are we talking about them?
Why are we talking about this?
Why are we like...
For me, that felt like theloneliest season of my life.
So I would say no.
Actually, when you level up andyou become a more self-aware
human being, you actually getthe connection that you crave.
SPEAKER_00 (45:38):
So great.
You've given so many goldennuggets throughout this podcast
as well.
I'm excited to even listen backto it as well because there's so
much wisdom there as well.
What's inspiring you right now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:52):
What's inspiring me right now?
I would say the age that my kidsare at.
Like they're just, my boy's 10and my little girl is 11 and I'm
entering this new stage inparenting where you're really
setting them up for life.
And I'm just learning.
(46:12):
I'm learning and I'mexperiencing and I'm making
mistakes and I'm correcting themand I'm having really cool
conversations.
So I would say my biggestinspiration right now is my kids
and just supporting them throughthis next phase of their life.
And my daughter's going throughpuberty and she's going through
different things.
And I would say that's mybiggest inspiration now.
SPEAKER_00 (46:32):
Has your focus changed a little bit because of
now the ages that they're at aswell?
Well, they
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
can hold deeper conversations now.
Like they understand like we canbalance together now where there
was once upon a time I would,you know, ask them a question
and the answer that they gave mewould literally be the answer.
And they didn't really have theself-awareness to dive deeper
where now I'm having reallypowerful, expansive
conversations with my kids.
(46:58):
So the parenting is a lotdifferent.
The conversations are different.
The way that I can hold space isdifferent.
The way that they can hold spacefor me is different.
And, you know, I can be moreopen and honest with them about
things potentially you know Ineeded to maybe not discuss with
a seven-year-old and and it'sjust a more of an open
relationship now which is cool
SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
how beautiful that the work that you're doing and
yeah the work that you teachothers that you can now have
that relationship with your kidsas well like I can imagine
that's just so incredibly umpowerful and yeah like a really
sense of achievement at the sametime it
SPEAKER_01 (47:36):
is Yeah, it's been my biggest reward.
SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
What's one thing that you were hoping that we
would cover off in today'spodcast that I haven't asked you
or that you're just dying tosay?
Oh, that's good.
I actually didn't have anyexpectations
SPEAKER_01 (47:52):
for today's podcast because my goal for this podcast
wasn't to get what I wanted tosay out.
It was to be open, to beanswered anything.
So I wouldn't say that there wasanything that I was dying to
say.
I feel like you, you askedreally good questions.
SPEAKER_00 (48:12):
Oh, thanks.
I appreciate that.
I love that.
I just, I've got such a curiousmind and I did another podcast
interview actually before yours.
And I was saying to, to thegirl, um, I just want to be the
best version of me.
(48:47):
people are doing great thingsI'm going to ask questions you
know because I'm naturallycurious myself and like oh how
do I apply this to me and mylisteners and how do you share
that so much as well because I'msure there's other people that
you know are going to learnthrough all of this conversation
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
So good well that's a great mindset right the only
way we can grow is throughcuriosity.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
That's all the questions like that that I have
for you like I've absolutelyloved this conversation and I
love what you're doing and youknow every everything that you
stand for and your content aswell.
So yeah, for listeners, makesure that you follow Felicity as
well.
There's so much value in thereand you've given such great
(49:29):
self-reflective questions in theepisode as well.
SPEAKER_01 (49:33):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
Yeah, absolutely loved it.
And thank you for your time.
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