Mayday Mayday Mayday Season 2 episode 22 with Firefighter Kenny Roman

In this episode, we interviews Kenny Roman, a firefighter paramedic with 18 years of experience. We discuss a May Day incident that Kenny was involved in, detailing the challenges faced during the operation, the critical moment of getting lost, and the decision to call a Mayday. Kenny shares valuable lessons learned from the experience, the importance of training, and how martial arts has influenced his approach to firefighting. The conversation also touches on the traditions within the fire service and the need for systemic changes to better address mental health and emergency responses.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, everybody, welcome back.
We have a special episode today.I'll explain more as we kind of
get going. But I do have the privilege to
sit down with Kenny Roman. He's a firefighter paramedic in
the city of Tempe, which is a Valley department here out in
Arizona. He moved out here from
Washington state when in 3rd grade.
It's been out here ever since hebegan his fire service career in

(00:21):
2007, currently having 18 years of experience as a firefighter
and paramedic, has been happily married for 18 years to his
wife. He has two children, son and
daughter, 16 and 14. They're in the martial arts also
with Kenny. We'll get into that later.
And he loves to study a variety of disciplines, including
kickboxing, Kempo, Brazilian JiuJitsu, holy cow, right, all it

(00:43):
basically every sort of facets. I think after Kenny tells a
story, we'll kind of do a littledive on the martial arts because
that's a it's a popular thing right now in the American fire
service. So Kenny, first of all, thank
you for your time, brother, to sit down with us.
This is a special episode for the guys that can watch.
You'll have a little bit video to go with this, but this is
about a mayday and not just a mayday, a mayday that you were

(01:06):
involved with not too long ago. So before we get into the video
and the story, is there anythingI missed in your bio, my
brother? Is there anything I messed up?
No man, it was good and thank you for having me on this
podcast. If there's anything I can say
and do is hopefully people learnfrom this experience and take a
positive note from it. Dude, Kenny, I love that.

(01:27):
And that's one of the many reasons why I wanted you on this
show because first of all, that is the thing that all of us are
scared of the most or the worst day in our profession is a
mayday if if we're involved or not.
But then to be involved and thentell your story and then more
importantly, tell the audience, hey, learn from my mistakes

(01:49):
right across the board. Everything that was made on that
fire ground, because we know every fire ground does not go
perfect. There's always mistakes.
But with that said, hey, take something positive out of that
and shit, it might fucking save your life one day.
So with that, Kenny, we're gonnaroll right into the audio.
So sit back, listen, enjoy guys.So this is our first little
tidbit. This will be the breakdown.

(02:11):
So the guys that are watching will be able to see it.
For the ones that can't, I will,I will narrate for you.
All right, so this is for the guys at KFC Spencer's warehouse.
Navy Fire. Fire crews arrived at the
building near Hardy and Broadway.

(02:32):
They found a haze coming from the 2nd floor in the building.
The fire was balanced. It was controlled by the
sprinkler system is a very largebuilding.
During the operation, 2 firefighters including Kenny
became disoriented and lost, which produced the mayday.
This is their story. Fighters are OK after calling
for help while battling a warehouse fire in Tempe.
It happened in just the past hour.

(02:53):
That's when crews responded to this fire near Broadway Rd. and
Hardy. Fire officials say 2
firefighters became disoriented calling a mayday.
That's when other crews rushed in and were able to get.
Them out safely. Investigators now working to
figure out what sparked those. Large commercial warehouse

(03:14):
buildings. It is 2 stories.
We have fire alarm and water activation on arrival.
We do have what appears to be a working fire on the 2nd floor.
We will be on the South side. I'm going to be Roosevelt
Command with a further report tofollow.
RAM will be mobile. All right, so we have a shoot, a

(03:39):
very good on scene report, right?
Seems like a not, I wouldn't saya mundane call because you're on
a big box with smoke coming fromthe 2nd floor.
But no one seems stressed. Everything's going.
So Kenny, please break us down. You're back step fireman, right?
Just you guys just arrived on scene.
Let's let's just tell your story, my brother.
Yeah, so we got this call. It was about 8:00 8/30 on a

(04:02):
Saturday night and it was a firealarm.
Typically like any Firehouse, you know, we're yakking it up.
We're going to the fire call andyou know, it's in our first two.
We're our first two is an industrial area, so we're
somewhat familiar with this building.
We get to the Spencer warehouse.There's no, there's nothing
showing. We go around to the front.

(04:23):
We don't see any alarms going off.
We go to the back to where the Bay doors are and we parked.
We're getting out. We're kind of looking around and
then my engineer, Lance Carlson,he goes over and he and we see
some water coming out and he like put his fingers in it and
smells it. He goes, man, it smells like
plastic. So there, you know, we are just

(04:46):
in our fatigue uniforms. We jumped into our firefighter
gear. They took out, they tried to get
into a side door next to the Baywith what we have a Ram tool.
I don't know if you guys have that, but those back doors so
well pressed up, it was very hard to get a good bite with the

(05:06):
ramp. So I took a Halligan and I start
popping off the panels of the garage.
So that's how we were able to get into one.
The base is I just popped off the panels of those doors.
From there I was able to open upthe Bay using the chain and then
looking up you can see the wholeceiling was charged with smoke.

(05:28):
I told Rick to give me the bolt cutters because there was a
chain link fence on the bottom story with a padlock.
I popped that off and then we just started shucking hose
inside. Then we also knew it was going
to be on the 2nd floor, which was a mezzanine.
Keep in mind we're not breathingair when we're doing this
because it's clear conditions where we're at.
It's all above us. And if you think of like a big

(05:50):
box, all that smoke is above us probably man, 20 feet up.
I would imagine. So.
I mean like clear conditions. I could see the other side of
the warehouse where at my vantage point on the ground.
And then Jim had put his pack on.
He crawled up and got up and then he kind of did a little

(06:10):
Recon. And when he was doing that, by
this time I had massed up and now I'm flaking hose on the
stairwell because I know, you know, it's, it's, we haven't
charged yet, but we're, we're setting ourselves up for
success. And so, and I'm just kind of as
a captain, I'm sure you, you do this with your guys.

(06:32):
If you're in the stairwell or whatever, you know, when you
charge it, it's going to go all over the place.
So you want to make sure that's going to be a nice and smooth
flake out. So it's, you know, when you
group make that entry, you're just going.
So that's kind of where that is.I do remember when I was flaking
the hose, Jim was on the radio and then the dispatcher said

(06:53):
hold off on your answer report. I'll let you know when the
companies are in route, which I thought was pretty, pretty cool
actually. You know, for a dispatch for an
alarm room to be that savvy, sayhold on, I'll let you know when
everybody's responded and then you give your on scene report.
So kudos to a Phoenix alarm system for doing that.
From there, there was another door or like a cage door that

(07:18):
was locked, but right next to uswas like a 2 foot like railing
and we just hopped over that railing and when we did that, it
was 0 visibility, couldn't see anything in front of me.
Same thing with my captain. He's standing next to me and I
remember having the hose line charging forward and bouncing
into some boxes or like ATVI, don't know.

(07:41):
If you don't know what a Spencerwarehouse is, it's where
appliances are, TV's and all, and dishwashers and washers and
dryers stacked up. I hit that.
I hit the cardboard box TV thing.
I don't know what it was. And I remember telling my
captain Jim, I'm like, hey, whatare we going to do?
And he goes this and he pushes it down.
And then we end up pinballing our way back down to the seat of

(08:02):
the fire. So you were.
So we're all on the same page. You bet you guys made entry on
the 1st floor or the ground level, had great conditions, but
you saw you had something working above you on the
mezzanine. You guys are flicking your hose
out. You're basically trying to
transition to that stairwell that's on the interior to to hit
that mezzanine. As you guys are doing that, as

(08:24):
soon as you hop that railing to go above, that's when you have 0
visibility, correct? Yeah, just maybe just above it,
like as soon as you like. It was kind of weird, like right
when you go take a step forward,your observability, take a step
down and you're in clear conditions, if that makes sense.
I got you. Yeah.
So, OK, so you guys are up in that mezzanine.
You have a lot of heat? Or is it just tons of smoke?

(08:45):
Zero heat, tons of smoke. Gotcha.
Right. So we're going to listen to
something real quick. Since Kane's been talking right
about now, I'm assuming the Battalion Chief probably showed
up. We'll listen to what the
Battalion Chief said on the radio, and we'll let Kenny keep
telling the story here. Stucky floor on the very South
side of this warehouse where my truck is spotted.
We forced access we're going up the ladder there's a fairway in

(09:08):
here we're going to the second floor.
I can armor and take it to the fire right up the room supplies
and equipment and seems like that to get to get to it.
How many bodies are here employing when you get right on
the roof are sure and look at the task and put us I copy
you're going to have yourself anengine 276.
You're working the line up to the second floor on the South

(09:31):
side. You had to force entry need a
ladder to go the roof. I just need a total park out for
your crew and I just need to know what conditions you have in
an air report copy. All right, so that's exactly
what you just said happened, right?
So it was pretty good, pretty good marching out.
Yeah. Your captain's on the radio
saying exactly what you just told us you guys were doing.

(09:51):
And then on top of that, pretty much the battalions taking him
and saying you and your and yourskipper, you know, did a great
job. He's like, hey man, I need guys
on the roof. I need, I need more info, right?
It's, it's just operating right now.
So right, two guys you're up on that mezzanine companies are
obviously now getting on scene and starting to deploy ladder
the roof and and help you guys out.
So what happened next? My brother?

(10:12):
OK, so as I pinned ball my way in through the mezzanine area, I
remember taking a knee and breathing air.
Another kind of critical factor that kind of happened in the in
the scenario or this event was that Jim added an extra 100 feet
of hose. When I talked to academies, I

(10:34):
say there's three numbers peopleneed to remember, two, 10110 and
300. Now, when you go into any big
box scenario, the SOP is 150 feet and we had added extra 100
feet. Some people would say that we're
out of policy, but if you actually read the policy, it's

(10:56):
kind of states within a retreatable area, 100 feet, you
know, out of ideal H, you know, whether it's a stairwell or a
room or if you get my drift. So we were actually at the sea
of the fire. We were 110 feet from fresh air.
Now with that being said, the reason why my captain added an

(11:22):
extra 100 feet because he didn'twant to not get to the seat of
the fire, if that makes sense, because we didn't want to just
be on the other side of the roomspraying, just pissing on it.
So that was his thinking on that.
Me being on a nozzle, I remembertaking a knee and leaning up
against the box and I could see a glow and and then they charged

(11:44):
the line and then I start hitting the fire.
From there we progress forward and then my captain tapping me
on the shoulder saying hey, we got fire over here.
And I go to my left, put a fire over there and then go over to
my right again and put another spot fire out.
So picture like things on fire, but their appliances and the

(12:07):
sprinklers are going off. You can't really see but the
waters getting shed from the cardboards that's not being
burnt or some piece of plastic that's shedding the water.
So I have these not like major fires, but just spot fires going
on all around, excuse me all around.
And I remember thinking to myself, man, is this arson?

(12:28):
Did somebody come in here is like, are they looking for like
an insurance scam or whatnot? That wasn't the case.
So I remember there was 3 distinct different fires that we
had put out in this facility by that time.
Crews are already coming up. Picture also that hallways, if
not for lack or alleyways stacked full of appliances,

(12:52):
probably about maybe 10 to 12 feet high.
Definitely taller than me. I'm only 5/8.
So things were, you know, probably about 10 feet up.
So that's an issue. But you know, he I remember
looking at my tick or not my tick, my my pass and thinking to
myself, Oh, hey, on that 2500. And then at that moment, my

(13:17):
captain had tapped me on the shoulder, like telling me, Hey,
we're going to go ahead and we're going to we're going to
leave, we're going to exit and we're going to turn over the
line to Engine 6, who had come up to take over.
I remember standing there waiting for my captain and with
my other firefighter, a partner,Rick Ellison, and listening to
the captain and him talk about the fire.

(13:39):
I also had listened to the radiotraffic to being a senior
firefighter, you have to listen to the radio and kind of
understand what's going on. It's kind of a, a set, a learned
skill. You know, especially for the new
guys out there. It's hard to do a task and then
listen at the same time. But at this moment in my career,
it wasn't. That's not very hard, you know.

(14:02):
So I had, I heard the Battalion Chief wanting to back everybody
out. Their discussion was, hey man,
this fires out. I don't know why we're backing
out. That was kind of what they were
there, those two were talking about.
And then we started progressing our way out of the fire on the
line. All right, so let's listen a

(14:22):
little bit more because it's funny.
It sounds like everything's going great so far.
I mean, besides, yeah, besides alittle, a little bit of hiccup,
force an entry, but hey, it's a commercial structured, it takes
a second compared to a residential, no big deal.
So let's this will be the first roof report that we have a audio
to share here. You have about a dozen ACS, you

(14:44):
have some skylights. I do have some powering on
there. Let's see what sector 2 needs
and I'll advise. I don't if I need you to make
the roof or not. All right, so it sounds like the
ladder companies on the roof andthey're saying, yeah, about a
dozen AC units with Charing. So you know, there is, there's
obviously fire behavior up in the upper portion of that

(15:06):
building. So we'll we'll listen to what
sector 2, which is. And Kenny, do you who is this?
Is this your captain or is this a different crew talking?
Do you know? I'll play it for you, brother,
and we can talk about it after all, right?
Can you give me a pecan report of what you guys exactly have on

(15:27):
the inside as well as the low air of the crews that you have?
Yeah, we need to get everybody off the 2nd floor.
Stuff is starting to come down from the roof and we don't know
if it's from the ladder company or not.
That's not, that's not my job. OK, Commander Sector 2, I want
you to access the structure immediately.
We're going to be going defensive until we have a better
plan. So it sounds like before we get

(15:51):
into the rest, so, so an officerinterior was was responding to a
Sector 2, right saying that. So his report was he felt like
stuff was coming down either maybe a partial collapse or the
roof cup or the ladder company was doing operations or
whatever. So tell us, tell us what you
were experienced interior duringthat.
Yeah, so. At that moment, as you know,

(16:14):
fire grounds are very dynamic. Battalion 5 that arrived on
scene, he was given the order totake over Sector 2.
Sector 2 was actually my captain, Jim Collier.
So as he went up to the stairs, he was hearing the ladders break
the skylight to help ventilate the cold smoke.
So the things that were coming down was the guys breaking the

(16:38):
windows, which is standard practice on any big box drill
when you're trying to help ventilate a structure that size,
especially in cold smoke. So he had not yet talked to my
captain to to take over Sector 2.
As it is, I know the policy could have been reading it only

(16:58):
because I'm taking the next captain's test is that in order
to get a sector, to relieve a sector, you need to do a face to
face. Unfortunately, I don't think
that had happened at that moment.
And so he assumed Sector 2 before he was even on, before he
even talked to the original Sector 2.
Did I make? Did I make sense on that?
Oh yeah, absolutely. And and to make sure that I

(17:20):
mean, yeah, absolutely. And exactly what Kenny said.
Everyone listen to this is a is a fireman.
So they know there is no perfectfire ground ever.
And if you research any close call or line of duty death
guaranteed in that report is oneof the things that led to the
failure or incident was communication.
It's it's always going to be in that report no matter what,

(17:43):
because we are inherently going to either miscommunicate, you
know, misunderstand whatever thecase might be.
No shade on the Battalion Chief that day.
Obviously, he thought he was doing what was best for the guys
and with the knowledge that he currently had.
But again, we're we're talking years later, we're we're
reviewing it. And then you were interior,
which is great. So it's just one of those things

(18:04):
where we always know that communication is something that
we should always work on in the fire service because exactly
what you just said, like the report did not match the
conditions at that time. So let's listen to the next
ladder company report from the roof.
It's it looks like here. OK, what's?
Your guys status up there. Were you guys able to ventilate

(18:31):
any of those skylights before wepulled you off?
He has 8 skylights that are punched out in the visor of a
low air. And what you have coming from
those skylights, 2500, we've gotkind of a lazy coming out of the

(18:57):
skylights. All of them are on the South
side of the structure. We never made our way N we're
coming down on par 3 copy got a par 3 lower.
All right, so if and if I heard that correctly.
So yes, they popped 8 skylights all in the South side of the
building. Is that in?

(19:18):
You might not know this answer Kenny, but is that the area that
you guys are operating? Because it sounds like that was
the only area that the skylightswere in.
Or maybe I misunderstood. Yeah, we are about on the South
side of the building. It was, I don't know if they're
fully above us, but that whole thing probably has skylights
across that roof and they, I mean, those boys are working.

(19:40):
So they're going through, they're cracking windows,
cracking windows, cracking windows on that South side.
And then, you know, they weren'table to get to the north side
due to but Battalion 5. All right, so yeah, yeah.
So I mean it, it's it's almost like you were there, like you
called it before you. Like I was laughing.

(20:00):
I'm like, I see you smile as you're like, hey, skylights and
like, you know, I hold up the number 8 and I'm laughing
because literally you're like, actually bro, they're breaking
out skylights. But anyway, well, I.
I'm not. I'm not not to throw any shade
against that battalion, but like, you know what, we kind of
talked about this before the episode, what do we know about
cold smoke? You know, it's cold.

(20:21):
So structurally, you know, the biggest issue you're going to
have with cold smoke is ventilation.
And that's exactly what we needed that, that that moment
was to try to get ventilation. And, and I'm not, I don't know,
the gentleman, he's a fireman just the same as I and you.
And you know, when you go into 0visibility, which I've been in a

(20:45):
lot of fires and I couldn't see my hand before my face lots of
times. And then just knowing there's
noise around me. I, I don't know what his mental
state was at that time, but you don't.
To your point, though, he's justtrying to protect the people on
scene though, you know, So with the information that he has,
he's concerned and rightly so. This is a big box, you know,

(21:08):
everybody's hair should be standing up on any big box,
whether it's cold, smoke, intense fire.
You should always be very leery in those situations.
Yeah, and absolutely. And I think I wholeheartedly
believe that's exactly where hismindset was at that point.
So currently you guys are you basically you put out a bunch of

(21:32):
spot fires. The sprinkler check had a
majority of the fire in check. So you just point out the stuff
that the sprinklers can't get tobecause it's a warehouse boxes,
all the other fun stuff, right? Your captain is talking to
another captain. So before we listen to this last
Sector 2 report here, everything's going good.
So let's kind of so tell us the rest of the story so far.
When did it start going South for you, Kenny?

(21:54):
So, OK, so after the discussion,the decision is that we're going
to be leaving the warehouse. I remember this visually.
There was a newer firefighter atthe time, his name was Nick
Story. He was a Probia mine.
And keep in mind, you know, withthe corridors that that are
there, it's very tight fitting. You know, you're kind of shuffle

(22:14):
around guys, bottles are clinking.
I remember seeing him. He just got on probation and I
remember putting my hand on his shoulder and telling him be
safe, be careful. You know, my mindset was, man, I
put this bitch out. We're mopping up.
This is this shit's done, you know, and but I know that I'm on

(22:35):
about 2500 on my on my air. So I have the hose underneath my
feet and I'm with my partner andwe're walking out and I know my
captain's behind me. Well, as we're walking during
the chaos and of everything, something had got knocked down
onto the hose line. And so it was an appliance of

(22:59):
some kind. So what I did was I just hopped
over the appliance and I went down.
I climbed over this box, climbeddown with my hands, and then I
started looking for the hose andI started drifting off to the
left with my partner. At that same time, other people
went right past this. This is how it was 0 visibility

(23:21):
and it was like 2 ships at the night of the night passing each
other. Nobody saw us go off to the
left. So that kind of puts a picture
because my captain was right, right behind me.
And by the time he got to Battalion 5, who is now declared
himself Sector 2, he realizes I'm not there with him.

(23:42):
Now at that moment, at that exact same moment, emergency
traffic goes, goes over the radio saying, hey, we're going
to go into defensive operations.I'm going to need a power of all
crews on the fire ground for Chief Carmen.
And I remember that moment because I remember I was looking

(24:02):
for the hose and I hear emergency traffic.
And the reason why I remember isbecause my hands are wet because
I'm looking because there's so much water looking for that
hose. And I remember thinking about
like, fuck, dude, like I got we got to get out of here.
You know, I knew the line was there somewhere.
Now, keep in mind I'm in a 10 by10 foot area by the sea of the

(24:24):
fire with my partner and we're looking for this hose line.
And my partner actually makes the suggestion saying, hey,
maybe we should call a mayday now, as anybody would be who's a
fireman. That's the last thing you really
want to do. And so I remember standing up

(24:45):
and saying, shut the fuck up. Let's control our breathing.
The hose line needs to be fucking somewhere.
It's here somewhere. I was confident it was here.
And on our packs, I don't know. What kind of packs do you guys
have, Steve? Same as you guys.
Yeah, What do you have, MSA? MSA.
Yeah, same exact ones you guys have.
So you have the ticks on your packs then, right?

(25:06):
Yes, correct. Yeah.
So I turn on my tick and I'm thinking, OK, well, I'll, I'll
see some warm bodies or whatever.
And then I will go over and I see my partner in the exact same
corner that I had just been in like two or three times prior.
And that's in my heart sink. That's when I knew he was right.

(25:28):
He looked like fucking Blair Witch Project in the corner
standing there. And I'm like, Oh my fucking God,
we're lost. And so I call them over.
We kind of develop a plan and you know, we decide to stay
right where we're at because we knew where we're at.
But we just didn't know how to get out of there Because once
again, there was no hose line from what I what I didn't know

(25:50):
at the time was engine 6 who hadcame up to assist us, had took
the hose back with them. So there went the line right
there that caused the confusion with us.
And so that's when we decided tocall the mayday.
All right, so let's listen to everything that pretty much what

(26:10):
Kenny just said, kind of breakdown on the radio.
And then Kenny, if you're OK, we'll play your mayday call and
then we'll talk about kind of your mindset and then where you
went from there. Brother, is that OK?
Yeah, perfect. All right, all right, let's get
into it here. So we'll get another Sector 2
report and go from. Sector 2.
Alarm Command, command, go aheadSector 2 par on 271272276.

(26:37):
We're all to the catwalk and going down the first floor.
I'm just going to pause that real quick.
Kenny, what truck number were you on?
On engine 272. All right, so they said 126, is
that correct? Yeah.
OK, just I'll play probably the rest.
You've got a par on all three crews.
Advise me when you're out. Roosevelt Commando Alarm

(27:00):
emergency traffic. Command all units operating on
the 21st St. in the Roosevelt Fire Ground.
We are going defensive. I need you to exit the structure
and give me a par when you when you exit the structure and exit
the roof. All right, so before we get into

(27:49):
the rest and how you responded. So I love the fact that this is
live audio because we no, it's great because we practice
maydays all the time, but this is exactly how they sound for
anyone that's you know, God forbid for the people that
haven't been on a mayday, Thank God, right, you never want to,
but for the ones that have now, like you understand it is So

(28:11):
what I heard right was you're off 276, you're having an error
issue, right and you're lost. So.
No increase and a low error. There you go Yeah, I was going
to say please tell the listenersexactly what you said, right.
And then kind of where your mindset was from that point.
And then I'll play the rest of that traffic and we'll well
March out what your guys were able to do from there, brother.

(28:34):
Yeah. So when we made that decision to
call Mayday, that was probably the hardest decision in that
whole entire call. Meaning when you're a
firefighter and you've been doing it for a while, and when I
mean a while, it could be 2-3 years or even 18 years.

(28:56):
I have, at the time of this incident, I had 15 years on,
pretty seasoned guy, had done, had seen everything so far to
this point. And as a firefighter, you're the
rescuer. You're the person who people
call and depend on to correct the situation they're in.

(29:16):
And now at that moment, I wasn'tthe rescuer.
I was the victim. I was the person in trouble.
And that's a hard mindset for any firefighter to get a hold
of. And you know, I wasn't scared.
I was embarrassed. I was thinking about, oh man,

(29:37):
like this is bullshit. You know, how the hell does this
happen to me? This, this is the one that's
going to get me. You know, a year prior to that,
I was in probably one of the hardest fires I've ever been in
and was on the 4th of July and it was 2:00 in the morning and
we went in and it was so hot, sointense that we had to back out

(29:59):
and to the point to where it burned my ears.
So that's the one, you know, I'mgoing all in this one cold
smoke. Are you kidding me that this is
fucking bullshit? And I never feeling a that a
wave of emotions and feeling disgusted with myself,
embarrassed that I had put myself and me and my partner in

(30:19):
that position. Now with that being said, when I
called the mayday from what I remember it as it was yesterday
was I went mayday, mayday, mayday.
This is fire, fire Kenny Roman fire, fire Rick Ellison.
We're off the line. No injuries have a low air of
1000. Now little caveat you can hear

(30:41):
in the radio traffic. I asked Rick what his low air
is. I have the radio in my right
hand and so I'm a right-handed person.
So I was having trouble finding out what my low air was.
So like any good firefighter, I look to my partner and I go,
what's your low air? You kind of hear that in the
radio track and he goes 1000. What I didn't know was that I

(31:04):
was probably below 1000 because I was the guy who was flicking
the hose, who was going who is, and not taking anything away
from Rick, but pinballing my wayin.
So I had done a lot of work to say and not saying that Rick
didn't do any work either, but if you spent any time on a
nozzle, you're pushing through, you're pushing through, you're

(31:24):
pushing through. So you exert a lot of energy.
Also, to be honest with you, looking back at that, I probably
was breathing a little bit faster when I was looking for
the line because I didn't want to be off that line, if that
makes sense. I was probably a little bit more
anxiety than I normally would bein a fire ground situation

(31:46):
because I was off the line. Both my partner and I were lost.
He even made the fact that made the statement that we should
call a mayday, you know, So we are both really nervous in that.
But with that being said, I think due to the training that
my department has provided me, also the type of captains that

(32:07):
I've had over me have taught us to keep a cool level head and to
do the best job that we can. And at that moment, our job was
to stay put, slow our breathing down and wait for help to come
get us. Like I said, I didn't know what

(32:28):
my low air was. So I don't know what other part
you have chewed up, but to kind of give you a little insight on
this is that I'm sitting there and Chief Carmen is as soon as
that Mayday gets laid out, he hedoes it textbook.
I mean, he gets radio discipline.

(32:49):
He's getting everybody on the same page, you know, no
unnecessary traffic calls, balance it out to a second
alarm. I mean, does it textbook?
And I remember sitting on the radio thinking to myself, I'm
getting out of this. You know, Kyle's out there.
He's going to Get Me Out there. At that moment, I feel my mask

(33:12):
trying to go up against my nose.I don't need to know what my air
is on the digital count, on the digital readout or on the past
device. That feeling, I know exactly
what that is. I'm out of air.
And the reason why I know that is because, you know, I don't
know how you train your crew or what people do other crews do,

(33:33):
but our crew is very well known about doing a skills course
every day. We call it walk the line.
It sucks, but you know, the saying is the hardest part of
the day's over. And I've had that, that feeling
on my mask, bring my bottle all the way down to 0 where that
little piece of my mask goes up against my nose.
I'm out. And so I go over to Rick and I

(33:57):
tell him I tap him. I'm like, hey, I'm out of air.
So he kind of shuffles over, gives me his, his tube and
pardon, his tube, his hose. And I start trying to plug it
in. Steve, when did you get on with
Glendale? 16 So we we had the one I know
what you're talking about, wherethe.

(34:18):
Pass. Yeah, right.
Where the pass was, it's no longer there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so I start trying to plug in
his hose on my pass device, looking for that nipple, right.
And it takes me a couple secondsto realize like, oh, no.
And and keep in mind, I had sucked up all my air because I
thought I just had to click in, right?

(34:39):
So now I sucked in all my air and now I'm like, I can't do
this. And then I realized I have to
unclick at that exact same moment.
That's when Kyle gets on the radio asking for firefighter
Roman. So I took some years off his
life. He took.
I mean, I feel bad to put anybody in that position because

(35:00):
I wasn't able to respond. But luckily my partner Rick was
able to notice that I was struggling on with the air and
then I had to get my own hose. I So what I did was I unclicked,
buried my nose in my jacket, finished the task that I had.
And then as soon as I I got thatclicked in, I popped my regular

(35:21):
back in. And then, and while this is all
going on, Rick gets on the radioand gives a phenomenal report of
exactly where we're at. So let's listen, we actually
have that queued up. So let's let's get right to that
then perfect segue. Thank you brother.
The alarm emergency traffic operating on this fire ground on

(35:48):
21st and Roosevelt. I need you guys to maintain
discipline. Stay off the radio.
We have a mayday on the fire ground.
And the firefighter, Roman firefighter, Roman man.
Go ahead Firefighter Elephant, the second floor, we have the

(36:08):
page. The will be a fire.
The will is a conference, the activated draft light.
We're staying in one place rightnow.
If you can actually, you know the pocket of fire for Sector 2
as we were leaving, I believe we're right next to that pocket
of fire all. Right before we get into that.

(36:28):
So yeah, exactly what you said, like a a great radio report.
So he realizes you're struggling.
So. So tell the audience what
happens from there, brother. So from there, I've hooked in,
I've clicked back in and we're just kind of waiting now.
Time slows down it this whole thing happened within a couple

(36:54):
minutes of each other. You know, we weren't waiting
long. Within probably about another 45
seconds, less than a minute. We're kind of huddled there.
I feel too. I feel a big paw grabbed me.
And then I see Rick get lifted up.
I get lifted up and my captain goes come with me if you want to
live. And he like lifts us up by your
throat and literally like walks us out.

(37:15):
Like, think of like like like byour necks walking.
Like 2 like 2 little kids right?Like.
Exactly, exactly like 2 little kids, like on on my toes.
Rick's on his toes, you know? And Rick's taller.
He's like 6-3, you know? So we're both out, you know, we
get out. We're as Mayday's resolved.

(37:37):
I hug Rick, you know, hug Jim. Yeah.
So let's, before we get into theemotions, I'll, I'll let you,
we'll, we'll just listen to whatit sounds like on the radio.
Come. Back you've got Roman and

(37:58):
Elephant. Are you guys on a hose line?
Command copy You're on a hose line and you guys are exiting.
What about command alarm? The mayday has been resolved.

(38:22):
We've located both 2, all the two firefighters that were on
the initial mayday. We have all crews accounted for
at par in the fireground. We are transitioning to a
defensive strategy until we comeup with a plan to ventilate the
building. All right, so perfect.
So that's yeah how you marched it out, right.
So was that two that came and got you Who?

(38:46):
What was the crew that? 272 Jim was the captain, Rick
was the backseat firefighter with me.
So companies that were interior was Engine 2, Engine 6 and
Engine 271. And then we had Ladder 6 on the
roof. So yeah, that those were the and
then you had Battalion 5 as Sector 2.

(39:09):
I got you now. Yeah.
I'm not sure if you know this answer, but were all the crews
still interior when your mayday was called and then they just
redeployed? Or did people actually exit and
have to come back in for you? Yeah, so from what I understand
everybody was on the stairs and and not an ideal H atmosphere.

(39:29):
My captain and the fit with the battalion we're discussing as
he's explaining to him. Hey, my guy's not here.
Nick's story, the guy I told earlier, as he hears this
conversation saying he rushes down and asks the engineer,
Lance, to go, hey, is Kenny out here?
Because at the time they only thought he only knew I was
missing. Jim thought another firefighter

(39:53):
with the same build, Matt Smith,was Rick.
And so as soon as I come out, oras soon as Nick goes down, finds
out that I'm not there, he goes back up and tells Jim like, hey,
Kenny's not outside. On.
From there, mind you, this is sodynamic around that time, Jim's

(40:16):
going down, down the stairs to go change his bottle out.
And then I'm calling that mayday.
And so he goes back up with Engine 6 Captain and then Matt
Smith, and they get up to the stairs from what they've told
me. And then that's when Rick
Ellison gives his radio report. Now mind you, like I said, those

(40:38):
numbers before, we are 110 feet from clean air, we are 55 feet
from where where they found us. So from the sea, the fire to the
stairwells with 110 we're we'd made it 55 feet.
So we made about halfway before we ended up getting off the
line. I got you.
And then what was the three? Was it 300?

(40:59):
Was the other number? Yeah.
So Jim had said that he put you can hear on the radio traffic
that he added an extra 100 feet on the hose line.
So. 300 feet. Right.
And then you have 210 from the bumper to the sea of the fire
and then 110 feet in Idyll H atmosphere.

(41:20):
That's. The fresh air.
No, the thank you. Yeah.
Cool. Well, so you're you're out.
You and your partner are out, right.
You're like you said, hugs like Oh my God.
Like what happened after that? Like was it a I mean, obviously
this is a big deal. It's a near miss, right?
So was it a negative? Did you have to turn it to AI

(41:42):
mean right now it's a very positive because you can tell
your story. You you you're like no one got
injured on the fire. Everyone's still working.
We all got to go home. So and we learned a valuable
lesson. But how was the initial
treatment right from the get go?Like the from the tail board on
was it like? I think from the tail board on,
you know, Kyle, God bless his soul, he was.

(42:04):
He was shook it up, rightly so, right?
No chief should ever have to go through what he endured and nor
did I want to put him in that spot.
But he did an excellent job. You know, I think he understood
the severity of it. You know, we got in the back of
the ambulance. They're checking this out.

(42:26):
I remember retired chief, Fire Department Chief Jones showed up
on scene. So did the head chief, Chief
Reese at the time. I mean, I knew right there.
When you have an off duty chiefsstart showing up and start
hugging you, it's a big deal. Yeah.

(42:46):
With that being said, they made the decision to send us home.
None of us wanted to go home. Obviously that's not what we
signed up for, you know, no way was, you know, at the at the
time, you know, nobody's hurt. We're kind of like, ah, no,
it's, we're fine, man. Like fuck it.
And so the decision was to send us home.

(43:09):
I want to say it's about 12:00 at night when this is when this
is all going down. They bring in another company.
We go back to the station, we change out and I drive home.
And I didn't want to go home, not because I was upset.
I was, I didn't want to go home to tell my wife, you know, I

(43:30):
didn't want to tell her that I, oh man, I got trapped in a
burning building. And then she's going to be all
worried, you know, So, you know,that's the last thing to find.
You know, I don't care about fire.
I don't care about getting in trouble by the Chiefs.
It's my wife who I'm really scared of.
It's yeah, I don't. Want to worry her.
So I end up coming home and I see that she's sleeping and I

(43:53):
kind of shake her, but hey, justso you know, I'm home and she's
like really out of it. And I go and very soft voice
like, oh, hey, they sent me home.
And she goes, what are you home for?
I was like, oh, I was trapped ina burning building.
So you know about. Yeah.
And she and she's And she goes, are you in trouble?
I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not no, I'm not in trouble.
And then she rolls back over here, let me sleep.

(44:14):
And she rolls back over and I'm like, yes, so now I dodged that
bullet. I dodged the fire.
I'm like, man, I can use a drinkright now.
So I go to the fridge and I, I, I forgot my wallet back at the
station. And so I'm like, all right, man,
well, I'm just gonna have a beer.

(44:35):
Well, we don't have any beer andI don't have my wallet, but
there's a White Claw there. So I end up drinking the White
Claw and I crush the White Claw.And I remember thinking this is
the worst thing I've ever drink in my life and I thought to
myself, I'd much rather burn thetrap building to drink that shit
again. Oh, dude, so good.

(44:55):
That's the best part of the story.
Like, yeah, yeah, why? I don't know if you told that
part in the recruit school, Dude, that's that's that's
that's the best part right there.
Oh my God, I love the fact it's funny.
Like I I got burned on the job back East got caught a flashover
super long story. But the the funniest thing about
it is I'm, I'm at the hospital, the doctors just left and my

(45:19):
wifes blowing me up. And this is like the inception
we were still doing. You remember Nextel the Little?
Yeah. Yeah, the Nextel.
OK, so it was Nextel, right? Yeah.
Yeah, and then I remember, because there's blasted all over
the news. It was just like, hey, who got
burned? I remember playing it off like,
oh, they're OK. I never said who it was, but I'm
like, they're OK, They'll be fine.

(45:41):
They'll be fine, right? And I remember, like, my biggest
thing was to go home to tell herit was me.
I didn't want to tell her, you know?
Like, it's not me. I'm not the one that got burned.
Yeah, yeah. And as soon as I want, as soon
as I walked in the door said youfucking asshole, I knew it was
you. You know, I'm like, I'm OK, you
know, like it's all all right, dude.
Well, listen, so that was a it was.

(46:02):
Thank you. First of all, thank you for
sharing your story. So please, before we transition
into just kind of I want to talka little bit about martial arts
and how that's helped you in thefire service and then go right
into closing out the episode. But what would you, what's your
takeaways to anybody that just got a chance to listen to this
for the first time? What would you change?

(46:24):
What, Like anything you would leave the audience with when it
comes down to your story and your mayday?
Well, first of all, I want to say as a firefighter, I don't
care what city you live in. You know what part of the United
States it is. Get in your gear.
You know, know your equipment, be comfortable being

(46:48):
uncomfortable. And that was probably one of the
most uncomfortable spots I've ever been in my career.
I've done a lot of skills courses where it's hot.
It sucks. And you know, to be honest with
you, it's easy to say, oh, no, not today.
But because of the training and that the leadership I had in

(47:09):
front of me prepared me to be inthat awful situation.
So I would say get in your gear,man.
You know, I don't care if it's 100° out.
I don't care if it's 70° out. Get used to being uncomfortable.
You know, be a Craftsman at yourtrade.
Be comfortable being uncomfortable.
And any time that you're going to go train, go do it, because

(47:32):
you never know when that training is going to kick it.
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you, you confirmed
it, even though you guys do yourskillies and everything else and
you have 15 years on the job. And I, I say it to brand new
kids and I say it to Blues all the same in the highest level of
stress, which in that moment, that day, that minute, that was
the highest level of stress. You most likely, please correct

(47:54):
me if I'm you probably ever beenin because it's literally life
and death. You resort to your lowest level
of training. And you said it.
I went right back to my here's my past device.
And that's where my UAC is, right?
Because that's where it was the majority of your career.
And it's not that you didn't know, you knew it wasn't there,
but you were so stressed out andyou're like, that's the easiest.

(48:15):
I'm going day one, right? Because that's what you learned
on. So the guys give me one.
You're good, brother. Get to Corgi.
He thinks he's so tough. Yeah, he's such a put.
That's awesome. Yeah, sorry.
Sorry about that, but no. No, you're good.
You're good, brother. Fully agree with you on that
man. And you know, I think like I

(48:36):
said, it's it's easy to say no, not today, I'll do it tomorrow
putting it off. But you know, you don't put off
what can be done today, so. Yeah, and like is and, and if
anybody takes anything away fromthis, always elevate your lowest
level of training because it might literally save your life
one day. And I hope that everyone that

(48:57):
got a chance to listen to this, I know I did multiple times
already took, I take something out of it every single time.
So I, I love the fact that you're able to tell your story.
You're willing to tell your story.
And we have all these resources to because we have an
opportunity now to for guys all over the country to be able to
hear your story, your mayday that might save their life 10

(49:19):
years from now because they might revert back and remember
something that you talked about.So that's, I mean, that's the
greatest thing about the American fire service,
especially when and I talk aboutit.
I, I like to talk about the end of every episode when we, we
take our egos out. It's amazing what we can
accomplish and exactly what you're doing.
At no point did you say, Oh, I'mthis big, you know, badass
fireman. And you know, it was because of

(49:41):
the building that got into trouble or blah, blah.
You're like, no, dude, this is just what happened.
And this is where we found each other.
And then this is how we worked, how we worked through it.
And, and I hope that you take something away from it.
So thank you dude for sharing your story.
Yeah, man. And let me just add on one more
thing, you know, I'd be lying tosay if it didn't affect me.
You know, I when I talk, when I talk to the recruits, you know,

(50:04):
PTSD is a real thing. You have to be able to work
through it. One of the reasons why I love
talking about this because this is me working through it, right?
Or me actually better yet going around it.
I don't have to go through this problem.
I'm going around the problem. I've accepted the problem for
what happened. I got off the line, I got
trapped. But now me talking to it and
hopefully other people will havethat this message echoing their

(50:27):
into their head. They'll be like, oh, wow, maybe
this is a bad idea. You know, they'll formally a
better plan. Couple funny stories.
What after the mayday happened the next day we're back at on
shift and we're doing skills course.
And it was the first time in my career where I felt I didn't

(50:49):
want to do this anymore. Like I I what what I had
anxiety. I had anxiety.
You know, the job or the skilly.The skilly itself.
Oh. OK, OK.
Wearing my mask, breathing heavy, working and I had like a
flood of emotions and it was just a weird like feeling.
Now with ego, I didn't say anything because I'm a bad ass

(51:11):
fireman. But so I remember thinking to
myself, well, that's different, you know, that is, that's never
happened to me. And I didn't really put the
connection, you know, I was ableto push through the skills
course. I didn't say anything to the
crew. And then we had a training fire
like a week later and I rememberit was blacked out conditions
and my hoe, my hand was like still gripped to the hose and

(51:36):
I'm supposed to make a quick search and I'm like, what is
going on here? Why won't I like hand work, you
know? And so I had to force my way
through that. And then it dawned on me.
I was like, this is because of the made it, you know, it didn't
affect me until a couple weeks later and I was kind of really
like, like, man, is this going to be like an ongoing thing?

(51:57):
And so it was kind of concerning, you know, so that's
a real thing, you know, so, so as much as the mayday sucked,
there's an aftermath to, to the events that we go through.
And then we had another house fire in Guadalupe, and I
remember throwing a ladder, taking a hose line up on the 2nd
floor and putting the fire out and getting done.

(52:20):
And I had no anxiety, nothing was wrong.
I didn't have to fight through anything.
It felt very natural, just like it had been for the last 15
years. And I remember thinking, I'm
back. But just to tell guys who get
themselves in situations, you know, don't be scared to talk
about it. And you know, you don't have to

(52:40):
keep dwelling on the problem, but you know, it's a real
interesting thing. Like you can talk about going
through it or I can go around it, except it happened to you
and teach somebody else not to do it.
Yeah, that's, I mean, I have nothing to say these you said
everything you need to on that. Absolutely.
So let's talk about let's talk about the martial arts a little
bit because I, I could be wrong,but I, you're you're very stoic,

(53:04):
like you've, I feel like you cankeep your emotions under
control. Is that from martial arts or is
that just is that just how Kenny's always been?
No no, I was a hellion as a kid learning disability.
Didn't know how to read until I was 18.
All the problems that you could think of of going down a dark,
dangerous path. Believe it or not, I lived in

(53:28):
Glendale for a brief moment in my life.
I went to Landmark Junior High in Glendale.
My first karate school was actually right next to your fire
admin. Before when I was going to
karate there, I was 11 years oldand it that was a dirt field.
And so we used to do laps on that where admin was.

(53:52):
I said that in my interview, butGlendale didn't like it, so I
didn't get hired on. That's OK though.
So, but anyways, I started Chinese Campo.
I progressed into kickboxing when I was probably 14 years
old, 15 years old. From there I got into catch
wrestling. And because I, being a young man

(54:16):
full of anger and spite, I, you know, would get in a lot of
fights and whatnot. And and not to the reason
because of all that, that stuff going on, because I just wanted
to test things out to see if it worked or not.
So meaning, meaning sometimes I sure zig and zag or hey, that
lock didn't work. So I was always about trying to
test things out. So I learned how to pop off the

(54:38):
guys and then you know, like, OK, let's do this now.
It didn't always work out in my favor and I learned real quick I
needed a ground game. So I got into, at the time it
was jiu jitsu, it wasn't Brazilian Jiu jitsu, it was
before the MMA and all that and still doing kickboxing.
Got back into Chinese Kempo, wasable to obtain a second degree

(55:03):
black belt there and started going into weaponry with Linta
Wok Khali and yeah, that's, you know, still training this day
so. Wow.
So you're, I was going to say pretty much your entire life.
So yeah, yeah. 35 years of training martial arts and you
said you still do as of today. Yes, yes.

(55:26):
All right. Is is that something that you
want to do till you can't move anymore or?
Oh yeah, man, fluid is, is motion, you know, motion is
lotion. So I, it keeps me active, keeps
me sharp. I've really enjoyed every aspect
of my career as far as martial arts, you know, as far as like,
you know, kind of funny. I got into it because my

(55:52):
grandmother and mother sat me down and they said, hey, you
know, my mom was a hellion. She ran away from home.
She got knocked up when she was 16 with my sister and then me
five years later. So she saw this path that was
going down, right? And so they both sat me down.
They said, hey, what can we do to get you from not going down

(56:13):
this road because we know exactly where you're going.
I just had a lot of anger in my life.
And I said, you know, Karate Kidthat just came out maybe a
couple years prior. And I was like, well, put me
into karate. And so they go done.
And so they put me into karate. And literally after school from
Landmark Junior High, I would goto the Dojo.
I'd be there till 10:00 at night.

(56:34):
And then we moved down to Tucsonand went to a sister school down
there. Same thing after school.
If it wasn't, I played football in high school.
If it wasn't football season, I was down at the Dojo training
and just kind of and then just just fell in love with it.
Man. Started teaching martial arts
when I was about 1415 years old.To people that were older than

(56:56):
me. I'd like the idea.
Now, I'm not a guy like, oh, energy this or that.
I like. Body mechanics, I like the
physics behind it. You know, if I do this, your
body does that. How that applies to my life,
It's everything. So to give you an example, as

(57:19):
being an RTO down at the Glendale Academy, one of the
biggest things I, I'm sure you see is how guys get tired right
when they're taking a plug, which is a very simple thing to
do, right? And a seasoned guy like, oh,
it's easy. I've been doing it for years.
No, it's because they're not breathing.
You know, everything comes with your breath.
I mean, every movement that you do, you have to learn how to,

(57:43):
you know, exhale, inhale. You know, like if you're lifting
weights, you know, I'm holding that weight.
No, you got to breathe or you got to push through it.
And I figured it out really quick in The Academy Is like,
oh, I just have to breathe. I've been doing this for years,
you know, so I'm not that tired.Let's go again.
I'm good at this. I could do this.
I could breathe. And then it's all.

(58:05):
It's all not muscle. A lot of it is just technique.
So another good example highlight in my Academy was you
know how you have the the prop door where you take the
sledgehammer and you have to hitit?
I could hit it within two to three and break the doubt
because I knew how to punch. So I'm using my hips, I'm using

(58:25):
my weight, I'm sliding that hammer, letting it do the work
Where bigger guys are, they're like tank, tank, tank, tank, and
they're just not getting throughit.
And so I'd have their RTO's go, hey, can you show me how to do
this? And I'd go over and it'd be
broke. I'd break the door open and I'd
be alright, man, I'll go over, back over what I'm doing.
You know, the red shirt, you know, But you know, it's all
technique, it's all finesse. Their strength does matter.

(58:48):
You know, you have to have some weight in order to hold a hose
line and all that. But that's what's helped my
martial arts help me become a better firefighter, you know, as
a smaller firefighter. You know, I'm not a huge guy.
I'm not, I don't lift heavy, youknow, So but yeah, that's where
martial arts has applied, has helped me out in the fire

(59:11):
service. And then also too, it's a good
way to have stress relief when you go on the type of calls that
we go on, you know, whether I'm doing a kata or if I'm rolling
with a guy, you know, it's, it'sliterally whether I'm rolling,
sparring or practicing a form, it's moving meditation, you

(59:32):
know, I'm not really thinking, you know, I don't.
And then it just it for me, it centers myself.
So there's a lot, it's kind of funny.
There's a lot of stuff I'm sure you guys have been doing this
like you've heard, you've heard like the Wim Hof or the Fox
breathing, you know, how to slowyour heart.
That's all martial arts stuff that I've been doing since I was
11 years. So it's all stuff that's like,
ah, OK, I've been doing this. So it's all very beneficial, but

(59:57):
you know it. That's exactly what I've been
doing throughout my whole entirecareer.
It took me and I and I give myself in this example and
you're the first, you're the first motherfucker that's ever
said it out loud. When I've been around the
general area, It's, I took me 5 years to learn how to breathe
because I, I did the same thing.I'm like, I don't understand why

(01:00:20):
I'm always so exhausted. And I was holding my breath the
whole fucking time. Yeah, yeah, for, for years.
And I blame weightlifting because what do you do when you
go super heavy? You brace.
So I was bracing, but then I never released it.
It was just like, it's, you know, I'm like, man, my cardio
sucks, which it sucks. It always sucks because I'm a

(01:00:40):
bigger guy, but that's OK. But it's but it, it took me
forever. You figured out an Academy.
It took me literally five years.And so I tell kids that now I'm
like, hey, by the way, I'm watching you.
You're holding your breath. And they're like, Cap, no, I'm
not. I'm like, you are.
And like, and then I tell them the same thing.
I'm like, listen, I did it. And you know, and I give my
example, then sure shit. They're like, Oh my God.
It was. I'm like, yeah, like I don't

(01:01:02):
know why I was doing it, but I don't know why you're doing it
either. But and I jokingly, I always
tell them all the time. I'm like, listen, bro, like we
wear how much for a living, right?
We're all mildly retarded. It's OK.
You know, I like I'm like, I am too.
You're in good company, but you're holding your breath down
my ass. Start breathing.
They're like, oh shit. So it's, I love the fact that
you said that because I've neverheard anybody else have that

(01:01:23):
struggle besides me like. No, guess what, brother?
They everybody struggled. They just don't talk about it,
man. All right, look.
At that ass fireman. That's right.
Oh my God. All right, dear.
Well, listen. So we got it.
We got a great story, a great learning experience and an
amazing bit of information to take back to all of our

(01:01:47):
departments. So let's learn about the why.
So why did Kenny decide to be a fireman?
So you kind of so you're a shit ass kid like most of us were,
this guy included, right? At what point did you say, dude,
I want to do this job or this isthis is for me?
Well, so I have an older brother.
His name's Tyrone Roman Martinez.

(01:02:08):
He lives up in Washington with his family, and we have
different moms. I found out when I was 13 that I
had an older brother. I wanted to meet him.
When I met him at the age of 13,he was 18.
He was in the fire cadet program.
And I was like, man, I want to be just like this guy.

(01:02:28):
You know, unfortunately, my father had passed away in my
younger years. This is a father figure that I'm
trying to latch on to you. I'm like, man, I want to be just
like this kid. And when he graduated high
school, he kind of traveled around the world.
I'd get postcards from him, you know, like, he would be in
Brazil, in the jungle, hanging out with a loincloth, you know,
like, crazy stuff, or in Thailand.

(01:02:50):
And I still have those postcardstoday.
And then when he got back, he ended up becoming a lawyer.
And during that whole time, I just kind of kept on that path
of being a firefighter. He he progressed so far in his
life and you're like, yeah, I'm happy where he started.

(01:03:10):
It was because of him that I hadthe idea that I could be a
firefighter and then he ends up becoming a well successful
lawyer up in Washington, CA areaso.
Go figure. That's OK.
You have a way cooler job than he does.
He just makes a lot more money than we do.
It's OK. That is true.
That is true. I love it.

(01:03:30):
All right, so we got the Y right.
So let's talk about traditions. So it's something that we are
desperately trying to, especially in our area, hold on
to and almost reinstill because I feel like our region kind of
lost some of the American fire service traditions.
So we're really trying to bring them back.

(01:03:52):
So let's talk about your favorite.
It could be your department, it could be the Valley, it could be
anywhere in the United States. But what is?
What is Kenny's favorite American Service Fire Department
tradition? But more importantly, why?
Why do you like it so? OK, so I think as as bad as it's
gonna sound, I like hazing a little bit, but not to the point

(01:04:14):
to what you think. I like to play the grumpy old
fireman or in my younger days the fireman.
Like when the when the new guy comes up, he goes, hey
Firefighter Roman, how are you doing?
I'm like, who the fuck are you? Are you talking to me fucking
right now? Fucking chippy.
So I got a couple funny stories on that one so.

(01:04:35):
Yeah, Please share. Tommy Arriaga passed away from
cancer. I worked with the guy for many
years before he passed away, Butwhen he first got on the job, I
did that whole spiel. We're down at the training
center. He comes bottling up in his gear
and he goes, hi, I'm FirefighterArriaga, and I'm talking to my
captain. And I'm like, are you fucking

(01:04:55):
really interrupting me in the conversation with my captain
right now? Where's your fucking crew?
Are you kidding me? What the fuck are you doing?
You're standing here looking at me for?
And he goes and he like, goes off with this crew.
He hated me for years. After that, I'm sure he did.
And you know, as soon as he turned away, we both start
cracking up, right? Because I'm actually really not
an asshole. I just play 1 on TV.

(01:05:15):
And so I didn't know that he ended up bidding into our
station house and there was a little animosity or whatever.
And finally I go, dude, what's going on?
And he goes, I don't know, man, I just thought you were an
asshole, but you're actually a really nice guy.
And I'm like, I didn't know thatyou hated me like that, dude.
I didn't. Know you thought I was an
asshole. Yeah, yeah, I was just fucking

(01:05:37):
around with you. You know, that's what you do to
all new guys. So Fast forward years later, he
comes up to me and he and mind you, I, I do this, you guys, you
know, it's kind of became a tradition in Tempe where when
you got off probation, you call station 2 and you call me up and
you go, hey, it's far, far. Can you Roman there?
And I get on the phone, fuck you, Kenny.

(01:05:58):
And then they hang up, you know,So like a rite of passage,
right? So yes.
And so, so he comes up to me andhe goes.
He goes, Kenny, Kenny, you got to do your thing.
You got of it. No, Tommy, you didn't like me,
dude, you need to start doing. He goes, dude, I can't hold a
straight face like you can't, you know?

(01:06:19):
And I'm very good. Like you said, I'm very stoic.
I can, like, control my emotions.
So a newer firefighter at the time, his name was Derek
Hopkins. And he comes in and I have a cup
of coffee and I'm like, well, how am I going to play this one?
So I go and hey, man, how's it going?
And he goes good. And I'm sipping my coffee.
Hey, what truck are you supposedto be on?
And he goes, oh, I'm supposed tobe on Engine 7.

(01:06:40):
But then they put me on too. And I cut him off.
I was like, I didn't ask for a fucking dissertation.
I asked you what fucking truck you're supposed to be on.
So why don't you go get your gear and get on the fucking
truck because guys want to go home to their fucking families.
And he goes, oh, and he fucking runs off.
Tommy is in the corner dying laughing.
He goes, dude, you're so good atthat.
So that's kind of a role that I've kind of played a little

(01:07:02):
bit. And it I'm, I'm not really an,
even if you're a probe on my truck, like I kind of give a a,
a Dumbo skill to him. I I'll tell him like, hey, dude,
I'm kind of, you know, I'm a little rough.
I'm a little loud. I'm more barked.
I am bite, you know, But if I say something that offends you,
let me know, you know, and then I'm just going to call you a
fucking pussy. And then they start laughing

(01:07:23):
right there, like, OK, this guy's kind of.
Cool. Yeah, so I get.
I get it. Yeah, so and then I tell him,
like, hey dude, I'm here to makesure you succeed.
You know, it's OK to make a mistake, it's just don't make
the same one. And if you have a question and
if you don't want to sound sillyasking, ask it, ask me and then
I'll and if I don't know the answer, I'll find it out for you

(01:07:44):
or I'll be that shield on the truck at that moment.
Like, Hey, what do you guys think of this?
You know, to trying to protect that new guy who really doesn't
know anything and to kind of make him more into the fold.
I think that's a role that I really enjoy playing, you know,
for the for the younger generation.
But they still got to get past the whole, the whole Kenny
Roman. Like, how do you know it's a

(01:08:05):
goddamn good morning, you know, And the whole reason I got the
whole thing from was when we were soldiers, you know, when
the sergeant's going by and thentense goes, you know, good
morning, Sir. And you go, how do you know it's
a goddamn good morning, You know, every time he sees him.
So that's the role I like to play.
So that's the tradition, you know, being like now, I guess
the old grumpy fireman, like, who the fuck are you, you know,
so. But yeah.
It, it sounds like you're an amazing senior fireman because

(01:08:27):
you hit all the qualifications, you come off like the asshole
right from day one, and then theguys quickly realize you're
probably the biggest shield and their biggest friend out there.
They just don't, they don't quite know it.
And I love that you said like the hazing because it is, but
it's not like I, I feel like in today's day and age, and again,
this is my personal opinion. We have gone so far when it

(01:08:51):
comes down to the what we can and can't do because it might be
considered hazing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's like motherfuckers like like I, I, I feel like, and
again, personal opinion, I feel like sometimes the upper echelon
forgets. Yes.
What the job really entails, butmore importantly, the things
that we, I say we the American Fire service need inside our

(01:09:14):
four walls that doesn't fucking leave anyway.
So let us, you know, let us messwith the new guys because I tell
them all in. I feel like I do a really good
job at the Academy because like right now we have 8 different
cities all across the valley andI don't have a single person in
my company from the city I work in.
But I tell them all the same thing.
Listen here's the deal. I am loud.

(01:09:35):
I am in your face. These are all for reasons
because the fire ground is aggressive and loud.
So I'm trying to expose you to controlled stress right from the
get go, I said. But when you need to worry is
when I stop talking to you. That's when I'm pissed.
Off yes, I'm like. So true.
Yeah. If I am in your face screaming,
it's because I fucking care. And I really, you said it.

(01:09:55):
I want you to succeed. That's my goal.
I want you to be actually. I want you to be better than me,
honestly. Oh, that, that is my whole
mentality as being a karate instructor is that I don't hold
back the knowledge. I want you to be better.
There was a guy I was working with not too long ago on a
skills course and he was starting to give up.
And I was like, you don't give up, you know?

(01:10:16):
And I'm like in his grill and I'm like, come on, you're going
to finish this. You know, I'm like, come on,
motherfucker, let's go. Come push him.
Making him go, making him go farther than what he realized he
could do to finish the task. And as soon as he's he was done
with the task, the first thing Idid, I gave him a big hug.
I was so proud of you. You're a badass dude.
I knew you could fucking do it. And I think people mistake that

(01:10:38):
kind of loudness, for lack of a better term, as being too
aggressive. Well, guess what?
In the environments that we go into, whether it's fire, EMS,
trauma pick, it doesn't really matter.
They're all aggressive situations.
And you have to have a thick skin.
And if you can't have a thick skin, if you get offended

(01:10:59):
because I say something off the wall, then you're in the wrong
job. And I and I and, and when it
comes down to it, it really is afamily.
That's how I look at it. Brothers and sisters I'm with.
So, you know, sometimes I've hada couple guys, especially
younger guys. Now that for, I hate to say it,

(01:11:21):
this film titled like, hey, man,I'm a man.
I'm like, yeah, I'm a man too. And I'm going to give my address
and you can come over to my house.
And then when I get done, beat the shit out of you, we'll have
a beer, you know? Then we could be friends.
It's OK. Yeah.
Yeah, it's OK. My best friendships were guys I
thought, you know, so, But yeah,that's.
Yeah, I think people forget thatit's OK that we can disagree,

(01:11:44):
you know? Dude, you're so my opinion.
You're so right, So right. I, I, I, I came to the fire
service because of the family, because of the camaraderie,
because of some of their traditions of teamwork.
You know, the, the things that we do on a day-to-day basis is
something special. I don't need Attaboy, I don't
need the people. I don't need the chiefs to say,

(01:12:06):
hey, you're doing good job. I know I do a good job, you
know, and the people I work withdo a good job with me.
So that's. I love it.
No, I mean, I love it like you hit, you hit every, everything.
That was a absolutely great answer to my brother.
And and I love the fact of how you transitioned it to because I
feel like it's very important for people to hear this.

(01:12:28):
And I want to see when I say people, I mean all ranks in all
years of the service, especiallyour uppers, because yes, you're
right. I feel like people today are
entitled. That has nothing to do with
generation. I know 50 year old men that are
entitled. And I know 20 year old men that
are entitled. You know, so it's it's not a
generational thing. Yeah, it's a society thing.

(01:12:50):
Yeah. But again, what drives me
bonkers the most is this job is not for everybody.
Pier DN and we have pitched it society wise that hey, you can
do whatever you want to do if you put your mind to it, which
is a fucking lie. You know, there is there is
physical capabilities that you might not be able to do.

(01:13:11):
You can't do this job, sorry, mentally you might not be able
to handle the stress. Sorry.
You know, like there's just it is, it is for select
individuals. And I, I wholeheartedly believe
that it should stay like that. And the more we water it down
across the nation, the worse is going to be for the public.
And that's what I don't think the the guys understand that
much. You know, we're, we're hurting

(01:13:32):
ourselves. Yeah, You know, my wife can pull
a hose line off a fire truck. The only difference between me
and me and her is I'm going to do it in a timely, professional
manner. You know?
You know, an amateur tries to get it right.
A professional doesn't always gets it right, you know, And
what I mean by that is like, I've practiced so much.
I can pull a line off a truck 2:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the

(01:13:56):
afternoon. It doesn't really matter.
You know, as I'm making those decisions with being a
paramedic, I have to look at thedrugs.
I'm a professional at my job, you know, I'm not an amateur.
I'm not trying to get it right. I am going to get it right.
So yeah. Yeah, we talk.
We talk about it all the time. We got JV, we got varsity and we
got the pros, you know, and it's, it's JV is like the kids

(01:14:18):
in the Academy, you know, varsity is like when they're
booters or like they're not really into the job, but they
can perform, right. And then the show, the big show
is, you know, the hard chargers,the guys that are actively
exactly what you're saying. They're in the gear everyday.
They're they're grinded. They're doing it till they can't
get it wrong. Yeah.
And that's an that's a very old saying, but it still holds true.

(01:14:38):
Like do it till you no longer get it wrong.
Don't do it till you get it right.
Do it till you'd never get it wrong.
And then then you're probably getting to proficiency, you
know? Yeah.
I'll end on this one though. My grandfather used to tell me
this. I didn't understand it till I
was like 25 ish thinking it's for young folks.
And the whole idea was was that like he asked me, hey, did you

(01:15:00):
get that job? Yeah, it's done.
I think it's done. And it's like, no, it's either
yes or no. So same rule applies to fire
service. Like hey man, did you get that
blood pressure done? Yeah, I think it's working.
No, either you know, you don't or hey, are you on that hose
line? Yeah, I think it's no, there's
no thing because it's about confidence, right.
And so when you're doing your job, you have to deploy as with

(01:15:22):
confidence and, you know, think like, like it holds true to me.
Like, I don't think I know what I'm doing, you know?
So, so yeah, that, so that's kind of a my grandfather is a
wise man. So he he laid that one on me and
I'm like, and it, it took me a little bit to figure that one
out until I was a little bit. Older so because it was a good
one, you know, and you weren't you weren't ready.

(01:15:43):
You weren't ready for it yet. I wasn't I dude.
So last question, my favorite question.
All right, so you snap your fingers, boom, something is
changed in the American fire service.
So whatever you want to happen, that's either insert, delete,
whatever it is. But the biggest thing, no sweat
equity, instant gratification. What would it be?
But more importantly, why? Why would you either change,

(01:16:06):
insert, delete, whatever this isin the American Fire Service?
I think the American Fire Service let me there's nothing
wrong with what we do. I think if I could change
anything, it's a system that we work in, meaning we're kind of
pigeonholed on where we can takeour patients.

(01:16:26):
It's straight to the emergency room, whereas this patient might
need more of a rehab center or more of a specialty, you know,
or a homeless shelter versus just taking them straight to the
emergency room. If there's anything I could
change, we work in a broken system.
We have a society that calls us for anything that might be done

(01:16:48):
or they might need done because that is their emergency.
Their plumbing's not working. I'm not a plumber.
I'll try to fix it for you, but that's not the right resources
that were there for. And I say this because there's a
big mental health issue in our nation crossed across both sides
or east to West. And it's a mental health issue

(01:17:11):
in my opinion, you know, you know, and, and drugs plays a big
part of that. And you know, the question is,
is the chicken or the egg? Was it the drugs that did it or
is the mental health issue that did it?
And we need to fix that somehow.And I don't really have the
answer. I do know, and COVID was the
first time in my career where wecould turn down people from

(01:17:32):
going down to the hospital. We had a guy who had was type 2
diabetic. His blood sugar was high, and we
knew if we took him to the hospital, he was going to end up
hitting COVID. He's going to die.
His immune system's already compromised because of his
diabetes. And so I remember looking around
and I'm looking at this house, typical, you know, family.

(01:17:52):
There's tortillas, there's sodas.
I'm seeing all these sugary things.
And I look at the wife and I'm like, hey, we're not going to
take him to the hospital. This is a very manageable
disease. He needs to make an appointment
for his doctor and get on the right medication to control his
blood sugar. All he's allowed to eat is a
salad and water. That's it before his doctor's
appointment. And but it sounds kind of harsh

(01:18:14):
to say, but at that moment in mycareer, if I would have took him
to hospital, he would have endedup getting COVID and with his
immune system being taxed. So we're we turn people down
that didn't need to go to the hospital.
And there was kind of some satisfaction in that in a way of
where the hospital isn't always the answer.

(01:18:35):
It is definitive care. But as you and I both know,
sometimes the hospital isn't theright route.
And I don't know where how to fix that.
But I know that's the problem wework in is the broken system
that we're in. And that's actually, in my
opinion, the firefighter burnout.
You know, there's traumas, there's fires, things happen.
But going on that call 2:00 in the morning on that same person.

(01:18:58):
Who? Doesn't really need to go
hospital, but we have to becauseof liability.
You know, if we could just take that out and put responsibility
back on the public somehow, I don't.
Like I said, I don't have an answer, but that's what I would
fix. That would be, that would be
amazing. Yeah.
I don't have the answer either. I wish you did.
So you could you could implementit because because I work around

(01:19:21):
the same area you work, so that means I would benefit from it
too. I know, I know, I know, brother.
Oh dude, well listen, thank you.Amazing story, great freaking
episode. I love all the sidebar stuff.
Is there anything you want to leave the audience before we
sign off? No man, just be safe and hey,
tell Johnny Chester he's a punk.Done.

(01:19:45):
I'm going to keep that in here right so and make him listen to
the episode so everyone. No, I love Johnny.
Him and I came on together so I guess one of my best friends.
So I love perfect kid to death but no, just be safe and you
know you got my number 911. Give me a call anytime.
There you go. All right.

(01:20:05):
Well, again, thank you for your time, my brother.
I hope all you guys enjoyed it and then we will catch you in
another two weeks. Thanks for listening, We'll be
back in another two weeks. Remember to like, share, review
if you can. Helps drive traffic to our
podcast. Remember, let's leave our ego
out of the fire service. It's amazing what we can

(01:20:27):
accomplish when no ones looking for credit.
Much love. Let's stop eating our own.
Become better firemen. Catch you next time.