The Water Cop: Bridging the Gap in Public Safety

In this episode, Steve interviews Paul Verber, a seasoned public safety officer with 25 years of experience, known as the 'Water Cop.' They discuss the importance of water safety training for first responders, the need to bridge the gap between police and fire departments, and the challenges faced in water rescue operations. Paul shares his journey into water rescue, emphasizing hands-on training and the significance of understanding the difference between distress and drowning. The conversation highlights the camaraderie among first responders and the need for progressive training methods to enhance effectiveness in emergency situations.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, welcome back everybody.
Copper State Fireman Podcast. First off, just a little
disclaimer for everybody, right?This is just two guys talking.
These are our personal opinions.This has nothing to do with the
companies, fire departments, police departments,
organizations or anything that the people or I should say the
the guest and the host work for or associated with.

(00:21):
So with all that out of the way,I had the privilege to sit down
with Paul Verb right now lovingly known in my phone as
the Water Cop. So he's got 25 years of
experience in public safety. He is currently a police
officer. And I know all the guys on here,
right, are going to be gritting their teeth at that point.
But he's a brother. He teaches firemen, hence why

(00:42):
he's on the podcast. And then part of that too is
let's try to breach the gap a little bit between Ellie and
fire. So with all that said, I'm going
to let kind of Paul introduce himself a little bit here.
But before that, I want to knocked down a couple highlights
have been a police officer for over 20 years.
More importantly, he's got and he'll correct me if I'm wrong on
this one. Sixty career saves.

(01:04):
He has a medal of valuer in 2008for an incident that happened in
2007. They rescued two adults 150 foot
out in a riptide, which is probably one of the most
dangerous water rescues. And we'll we'll confirm with
Paul on this one. So with everything set aside so
I don't butcher or interrupt anything, let's introduce Paul

(01:25):
Verve. Brother.
Thank you so much. This is actually our second time
sitting down. A little technical difficulties
the first time, but it's OK. So first of all, dude, thank you
for your time. Welcome to the show and please
introduce yourself to the audience if you don't mind.
Yeah, you guys know him? My name's Paul Verve.
I'm actually with my law enforcement officer here in

(01:46):
Jersey on the Jersey Shore. Been doing that for 20 years,
ever since I graduated high school.
Been doing it prior to that. Grew up in the water, grew up
around the Jersey Shore, you know, love of the ocean, love of
the water. I've been trying to bring
different, different experiencesto different people.
I'm a full time, oh, I'm an Academy instructor at our police
Academy in the state here teaching water safety.

(02:09):
Teach taught over 100 and sorry,1600 police officers,
firefighters, EMS, lifeguards, everything from surface
Washington water awareness, surface water rescue, open water
awareness, operations technicians and rescue
watercraft. Everything from, you know,
inflatable rescue boats to PwC rescue watercrafts.

(02:30):
Been doing that for probably 15 years now.
Been doing a lot of my training.It's been working out great.
And my big thing is, is like yousaid, Steve is bridging that gap
and, and trying to get away from, you know, that, you know,
you know, you know the hose, youknow the hose holders and you
know, the the guys that are justsitting there waiting for, you
know, waiting for the fire company to arrive to put

(02:51):
something out. So, you know, we joke around, we
have that brotherhood back and forth, But you know, my goal is
to sit there, bridge that gap and have a unified response
because God knows when shit's hit in the fan, both of us are
standing side by side, you know,ready to ready to get everything
wrong. So I guess I do, but I got to, I
got to tell you how dude, reaching out, It's awesome.
It's a privilege to be here, youknow, privilege talking to you

(03:12):
guys. Dude, thank you again for being
on the show and, and in jest, obviously we all know we make
fun of each other, but every fireman out there knows when
shit it's a fan. The first thing we do is call
for PD and you guys come like gangbusters and vice versa.
When you all need us, we come through and through.
So if you guys haven't figured out two things I want to point
out, first of all, Paul says water the correct way, right?

(03:35):
The jersey and the Philly way, right So. 100 percent, 100%,
there's no thank you for fact because there's no water.
Yeah, God, yeah, it's water. Thank you.
Right. So as long as we.
So we're now pronouncing it correctly, which is good, right.
And the fact that you're a Jersey boy, which is even better
because the guys that really know me, but most of you guys
don't like Jersey is just got a special place in my heart,

(03:58):
especially the area that you're from.
So I was, I was stationed in RedBank, NJ for a while.
So northern section. Yeah, northern section of the
state. I, I love Jersey through and
through. They got some amazing fire
departments. But let's get, let's get on to
you. So from what you explained
yourself, you're the freaking water dude.
Like you do every aspect of it when we're talking about an open

(04:20):
water, swift water, ice rescue, basically every modality that
has to do with water and then people that need assistance.
So how explain to the audience, how did you get into this realm?
And then after you kind of explain your backbone on that,
like what are you trying to do in public safety now when it
comes down to that, that water rescue, like where'd you find

(04:41):
your niche? And then what do you believe
that you're providing us? And when I say us, I mean us as
in public safety. So firemen, cops of the whole 9,
what are you providing us when it comes down to that knowledge
of that, that water rescue stuff?
So let's just go and like, how'dyou get into it?
And we'll kind of branch off from there, brother.
Yeah. So when I was younger, what we
have here on the Jersey Shore and some of the coastal

(05:02):
communities have this like a lifeguard and training program.
So that started when I was younger.
Like, you know, you're 1213 years old, You learn a lot about
the water. You basically go to like it's
almost like a camp for for kids.But you grow up around the
waters. Being here on the coast, it's
really great to go and experience different facets of
the ocean and learning about theocean, RIP currents, tides, how

(05:23):
to, you know, waves and you know, how to effectually, you
know, affect the rescues and everything like that.
Did that for a while, wound up graduate, wound up completing
the program, wound up working for a for a beach patrol over
here on the Jersey Shore. That worked out great.
Was there for two years, worked with great captain, had a
handful of saves, nothing crazy and wanted to become a police

(05:44):
officer in 2005 and took a lot of the stuff that I learned from
being a lifeguard and transitioning it over to doing
my law enforcement side with a nine month Academy.
And we have a water safety portion of it there.
We're one of the few, the counties that teach it.
Now I can probably say that, youknow, my program is now
implemented within our county's police Academy to where pretty

(06:07):
much the standards that I have for the NFPA and everything like
that now resonate through throwing through because I want
to make sure that we're completely vested into it and
ready to roll. So wind up 2007 wind up having
we got a phone, we got a call. I literally rolled in for my
shift. I was wearing board shorts and
AT shirt walked in. Boom.

(06:27):
Next thing you know, we get, youknow, we get a call, a water
rescue, you know, 200, you know,200 yards out my my patrolman.
That was that working that night.
One of my good friends, you know, you got I'm like, yeah,
dude, I'm like, it's a top line in class.
Cool. Sit over there.
Next thing you know, we're running.
I'm just taking off my flip flops.
We're good to go. Took off my shirt, ran to the

(06:49):
back of the car, grabbed the rescue can, sprinted over the
dune and wind up, you know, swimming out there.
The two guys were about 150 yards off at the time I'm
swimming out, made contact with both of them and brought them
back in. You know, they were moments away
from going under, but I was ableto bring them back and all.
Did all that and got to experience the adrenaline dump

(07:09):
of it again, which was awesome. That watch is always something
that you always chase again. But what happened was was, you
know, that was kind of my first taste of it.
And luckily enough I was it was nominated to receive the Medal
of Valor for our 200 club out here in Jersey.
So in Ocean County. Wanted to take in the ball with
that, try to establish and want to get picked up full time that
December. Went back to the police Academy

(07:31):
at the time because we didn't really do a waiver thing with
it, but did it again. I told my tale to that Academy
class and then set my sights on the target there.
And then a couple of like 2 years later, we had another
water rescue on the North End ofmy island and two of my buddies
wind up going out there and it kind of show, you know where I
looked at it from the standpointwhere hey, listen guys are going
out there with nothing really trained after they go out of the

(07:54):
Academy and kind of implemented some different things.
We wanted to establish a water rescue unit, which I'm in charge
of, which we have a PITA. We're trying to revamp some some
aspects of it because we had to change a vehicle.
We had the thing sitting in the back of a Hummer where you just
deploy the thing, you'd run it down a cart.
You could take this thing over at sand dune, you could take it
through the backwoods wherever. You could drive a truck, you
could drive this thing and we can launch it wherever.

(08:16):
But you know, in my career, I'vehad over 60 rescues, you know,
throughout like a handful of them being that.
But the one thing is, is, you know, but I always try to tell
these guys is, you know, when itcomes down to water rescue, like
you said, there's different disciplines.
You know, you got surface water,which is my special thing really
is surface water. And then you have ice rescue,
which has its own little niche, but surface water is the main

(08:38):
connecting block. And the one thing that I see is,
is a lot of people bypass that. And when they say bypass it is
they just want to do these specialized things with it.
And where I have a problem is, is, you know, whether it's ice
rescue, swift water rescue, the,you know, any of these, these,
these disciplines that are specialties, people don't have

(08:59):
the basic training to take a bath, you know, let alone some
of these guys don't even know how to swim, like don't even
know how to swim. So, you know, what I do is I
have, you know, we wound up developing a program where, you
know, we incorporate a lot of these tests that are in to do
stuff safe and effective. Because the way I look at it is

(09:20):
that's whether you know, some academies teach it, which I know
when you were down in Baltimore,you said that you guys did a lot
of you guys had a in water perception where you know,
where, where your FCBA here, youknow, where some places don't
even teach that. You know, I'm sure you know, I'm
not sure if you know at where you guys are at that kind of out
there. Do you guys even touch on that
anymore or not so? Yep, not at all.
And. So here, you know, and this is

(09:42):
what I always ask people, I'm like, all right, well, you know,
and Steve, like how many, how many, you know, after COVID
especially like that's where we saw a major rise in it.
How many of the houses that you guys go to, how many of them
have pools? Everyone. 95% of them.
All right, So like, you know, and that's something we have
here at the shore, like everybody and their mother put a
pool in like like you couldn't go anywhere.

(10:02):
You couldn't go on the beach or you had to do this, you had to
stay at home. Well, people were like, you
know, F it, like, yo, I'm going to put a pool in my backyard
times here, just like, you know,you experienced here and you
know, some other agencies have, you know, they close up their
pools for the winter time. Well, what happens when you
know, we get snow? I mean, it doesn't really happen
that often out there in Arizona,but you got your spots where it
is in the mountain areas. But you know, guys close up

(10:23):
their pools. Well, you get the pool cover on
there. Next thing you know, you got
blazing fire going. Next thing you know, boom,
somebody falls in the water. Now they're in an absolute
panic. You don't even know if they can
swim. Now you got a water rescue.
You have a guy that's out of theequation.
Now your now your attention is drawn to that where you know
what my thing is, is, hey, you know, we got to touch on this a
little more. Is that's finding the void for

(10:44):
me or be you know, the other thing is, is, as I tell
everybody in the police Academy is, hey, listen, how many you
guys want to go somewhere? Why does everybody want to get
into this job? You know, I'm like, listen,
don't sugar, but I go listen to money, the time off, you know,
the privilege to do different things and have some sweet
things like, hey, listen, guys want to do SWAT.
They want to do this, they want to do that.
I said, dude, it's all great, awesome career.

(11:05):
I said, but you know, when it comes down to it, I go, you want
to go on vacations, you want to go somewhere One I said, you
know, listen, I got married in Saint John and I'm like, listen,
I'm no, I'm no, you know, stranger to this.
I go, I have 6 or 7 rescues alone on vacation for people
that I don't even know. You know, I was up in Nantucket
back in 2014, fifteen maybe right around that time frame and

(11:28):
it was a Labor Day weekend. Same thing that happens down
here on the coast. You know, I wound up having to
go out. Me and my buddy who I used to
lifeguard with three kids were wound up getting sucked out in a
RIP. Next thing you know, you know,
people like, oh, we called the cops.
I'm like, cops ain't going to behere in, you know, 10 minutes.
It's time's now. So we got to get out there.

(11:48):
Me and my brother, me and my buddy grabbed our our two boards
when I'm going out there and wound up rescuing these three
kids and brought them back in and the parents didn't even know
what the hell was going on. And by the time we had them in
everything was good 5 minutes later the police come up hey
what's going on Don't worry about it dude, it's all good We
got them out just go check on make sure they didn't do
anything. You know, for me is, is trying

(12:09):
to bridge that gap and, and trying to tell everybody like,
hey listen like whether it's here when you're on vacation
like these things happen everywhere.
But just given that basic knowledge to to firefighters and
police and EMTs, lifeguards and lifeguards are around a lot.
But just given that exposure to the different element, you know,
and kind of making it seem like it's not a major priority for a

(12:31):
lot of agencies, but it's something that you have to
prioritize because when it comesdown to it, you know, when shit
hits the fan, God knows that lawsuit.
Like why didn't you give him anysort of training in this?
You know, we have a drowning. Well, how was he training?
No three-year, you know, there'salways a drowning in fire just
like there is in police. And my big thing is, is that's

(12:52):
unexcusable. Like it's something that we can
easily prevent. Whether you know your skill set,
like I said, you know, if listen, if you, if you go to
your Academy and say, hey, listen, client recruits, we're
going to be sitting there. Hey, you got a water portion?
Listen, I am, I am a legend now known as like the like the scary
guy, the the class, like you don't want to deal with him.

(13:12):
This dude jumps in the water. They're like, dude, this, this
dude's like a freaking battleship When he jumps in, we
want to stay away from him. Well, once they see that, hey,
listen, it's, it's something good overall.
Let's let's make it work. But my thing is, is giving these
guys and you know, fire recruitsand stuff like that.
Hey, listen, you know, you can'tswim and when you got kids, like
kids want to go in the water, they're drawn to it.

(13:34):
Let's give you some some skills to help you out for your family
life, but also, God forbid, saveyourself.
You know, and that's a big thingtoo about, you know, doing all
the trainings was with my programs is trying to
incorporate self rescue. But also God forbid if shit hits
the fan you can you can help somebody else out if you need to
or specifically more level. Right.
So just to make sure that all the listeners are on pace.

(13:55):
So you're, you're a lifeguard prior then you became a police
officer still did the whole water rescue incorporated into
the Police Department. So when and why really why and
when did you incorporate the fireside?
And then really what were you seeing that they were lacking?
And then what are you kind of doing to make sure that, because

(14:15):
I know you said bridging the gap.
So explain to listeners how you're doing that on that water
side between police, us and thenmaybe just the whole public, if
you don't mind. Yes.
So for the police aspect of it was, you know, like I said was,
you know, so that the the skillswere lacking.
So I'd have started developing my program over time and when I
really started noticing things were lacking was, and it's not a

(14:39):
knock on fire department or anything like that or department
agencies because like it's like I said, the priority is, is
fire, you know, safety and everything like that.
But it's more of, you know, in 20/20/20 or 2021, I think it's
21, I started really pushing forward and, and really getting
the groundwork laid for my business.
And then 2021 I really started seeing that was when I started

(15:00):
the groundwork. 2021, I launched, but it was more to
bridge the gap because when I saw some of these, you know,
solid departments, you know, show up, you know, some guys
were like, dude, I'm not training well, dude, somebody's
falling down on one. Like I don't have, I don't have
the manpower right now to get out there to go look, You guys
have anybody? No.
Well, where we were at the time,there's two agencies.

(15:22):
There's Beach Haven on one side of my agency and Barnegan Light
on the other side. Well, if you're stuck in the
middle of, of Long Beach Island where I work, that could be
you're in no man's land because you're 8-9 miles one way, 8-9
miles the other way. And in the summertime at 5:00
when everybody's out and about, it's 35 miles on my own.
So, and there's a million traffic lights at like every

(15:44):
intersection. So you're, you're looking at a
great, great intersection where everybody's kind of, you know,
you're going to screw. So then it's not becoming more
of a rescue, it's becoming a recovery.
You know, So what I saw was that, but also, you know, guys
would be busy trying to launch ajet ski when all you had to do
is just jump in the water for a rescue, like a regular, like a
rescue can rescue or a rescue tube rescue or a paddle board.

(16:07):
Guys were going to the extreme when they could have just easily
adjust on a more basic, not basic, but a like an easier
transitional level of a rescue to get that victim supported in
the water. So and then knowing what I've
known from the lifeguarding aspect of it and then the water
aspect of it from teaching at the police Academy, I started
bringing a lot of techniques in and simulating everything to

(16:30):
where it became a lot easier because let's face it, we have
to always teach the lowest common denominator no matter
where we're at. We try to make sure that we're,
you know, we want everybody to be there, but you know, when
stress is hit in the fan and youknow, shit's hit in the fan and
you're sitting there trying to get rolling, you know, you're
going to your, your animal brain's going to take over and

(16:50):
you're just going to remember the rudimentary, rudimentary
tactics. Well, So what I did was I
brought in different techniques to make it easier.
So this way for firefighters, police and EMTs and a safer
bloody because a lifeguard's great.
But some of the techniques you're going to do as a
lifeguard, you know, whether youwere a lifeguard 15 years ago,
you ain't training the way you were at one point in time.

(17:11):
You know, unless you're on a paddle board, you're not going
to be able to use the paddle board, you know, the way you
once were. Or if you're not used to going
hands on with somebody in the water right on, you know, right
at them. Like you're not going to be able
to do that right away because they are they'll they'll just
take you down because their goalat that point is just to keep
your head above war, you know, and you know, looking at other
programs, you know, there's really no bridging to that.

(17:33):
It's, you know, you got people that are sitting there trying
to, you know, they're covering surface water, you know, surface
water with swift water stuff. And I'm like, but they're two
different, they're two differentpractices.
I'm not going to teach somebody to, you know, float in a riptide
all day and just hang out. Like, no, like your goal is to
get there and figure out what's going on.
So when I developed the program and everything that was to make

(17:54):
it more streamlined, easier to remember and easily repeatable,
you know, and then this way whenyou came in and when I wrote
policies for different agencies,I'm working with Surf City Fire
Company as the water safety coordinator right now.
Their fire department, you know,we established their unit last
year and we're rocking and rolling and ready to go at a

(18:16):
moment's notice with with the volunteers that we have because
everybody thing we have on on Long Beach Island is all
volunteer agencies. So it's you know, unfortunately
that's almost like a dying thingout here.
I'm sure you guys have your own issues out there in Arizona with
the volunteer agency, but it's people don't want to volunteer
anymore They'd rather be selling, you know, toe pictures
or feet pictures on it only fansand making, you know, a little

(18:38):
bit more money than just sittingthere actually, you know,
learning some skills that could help somebody.
So you know, unfortunately the volunteer stuff is starting to
kind of die off. But my main thing is just try to
give back to the communities that you know I work in, but
also make it better. So this way, you know, when I
leave this earth, people are going to be safer because of it.
I love it. So I've been jawing down

(18:59):
questions the entire time you'retalking.
Explain to listeners when you say, hey, I'm going to go hands
on with the patient in the water.
What does what does that mean? Explain to the the guys that
have been through your class like myself, what that what that
means. And then when I'm assuming
that's a aggravated or completely out of their brain

(19:19):
patient, but please explain whenyou do that, how you do that and
then what that kind of looks like for you?
Yeah. So we'll start with the the
basic, the two main things here.So you have to distress versus
drowning, drowning difference. It would distress persons where
you like, you get somebody who you know they fall in, they're
just kind of just trying to keeptheir head above the water.
They're able to keep themselves floating when it starts to go

(19:41):
bad. One of the major tall tail signs
is, is what's known as climbing the ladder where you'll see
somebody going like this a lot of times.
So if you say you see somebody in a lake, you know, and next
thing you know, hey, you know, this person doesn't look like
they're going up too well. Like that's weird.
Like, and you start seeing like everybody's having a good time
or you'll see that kid in the pool, they're having a good
time. Well, as soon as you start

(20:02):
seeing like the hair in the face.
Because everybody knows, you know, my wife's included, like
my wife, my daughter, like as soon as I get hair in her face,
it's the first thing he's out ofthe way.
I don't have that problem. I've been rocking bald since I
was 19. It's great.
But The thing is, is when they stop caring about that and
that's no longer a major made. Oh, perfect.
See right there, it's great. It's cheaper than a haircut.
I'm not even bald by choice. Like this is choice.
So for me, it's it's one of those things.

(20:25):
So you get to that point where that that victims now it goes
from being able to keep themselves afloat, which is more
stressed to going into more of this climbing the ladder phase
is when it starts to get becoming more of a drowning
response. What happens is in their mindset
is it's my goal is just to survive.
There was a study done lifeguard.
I forget whatever it was the 70sor 80s I saw, I saw the video

(20:46):
one time. I can't find the video.
I got track attack. But a lifeguard on Long Island
one July 4th weekend wound up actually filming people like
drowning in the ocean or in distress.
And every single person was exhibiting these same signs.
Was this pawing at the air? Because what they're trying to
do is keep their airway above the water.

(21:07):
And what you'll see is at this point where they start grabbing,
they'll start taking their head or neck and putting it up.
And this is to keep their nose above the above the water.
So as soon as somebody goes intothat, it's more of just a
survival motion. So now you take that.
So if you're the rescuer and you're going into these victims,
if when I say go hands on is some people, you can kind of

(21:29):
talk to them like 9090% of the rescues that you're going to do,
Oh, I can pass them a rescue can.
I can pass them a rescue tube. And which of you guys don't
know? A rescue tube is literally it's
a thong tube. You see it a lot of times at the
pool, but the ones that we use for the ocean have a brass clip
on one end and there's a tethered strength that would go
to the rescuer, goes around the shoulder to the other side
there. Same thing with rescue can.

(21:49):
It's those big orange buoys thatused to see David Hasselhoff
running with down the beach chasing Pam Anderson, which it
sounds like a great time. So I agree 100%.
So you could take one of those and you could pass it to the
victim 9 times at a time. That's going to be your rescue.
Boom, grab on this. You got it.
All right. Now I can sit there and talk to
him, see what's going on, evaluate the war.

(22:13):
But what happens is once people go to that, the stress for
running state your, your initialconversations when we try to
say, hey, what's going on, if you're getting stuff that's just
kind of incoherent, it's like, hold on, something else is going
on here. How can we fix this?
Kick it around. You know what they're obviously
you got to know in your back of your head something else is up.

(22:34):
You know, for me, what I like todo is there's other techniques
that I teach where you approach from different angles or if they
get start following you, What I'm going to do is, hey, listen,
if you're going to start following me, where am I going?
I'm going to go back to shore where I was.
Why not make my life a lot easier?
You're the one in trouble. But if you're following me, this
is a great this is a great time overall.

(22:55):
So what we'll try to do is that,so that's the difference.
So once they start going to the drowning, the drowning sequence,
that's when you got to know like, shit, I got to get this
thing rolling and I got to get it rolling fast.
So yeah, that's, that's pretty much the main thing with that
when it comes down to those two major things, because those are
things where whether you're in swift water, cold water, purpose

(23:15):
water, like you got to know those signs real fast because
shit can change in about, you know, a second or two.
Right, so when it comes down to so you say going hands on now we
kind of understand what that means.
And and I love how you explain the climbing the ladder because
I never heard that before, but I'm like literally visualizing
it. It makes sense.
So the guys that are watching this and the guys that are

(23:37):
listening don't know or whatever.
You're a big fucking dude, right?
So how does that affect your ability to do water rescue?
So I'm not a small guy either, right?
And I'm a really good, I always mess with guys like, listen, I
can swim, but I'm a really good diver.
Like if you want shit on the bottom, I, I naturally progress
below the, the water grade. And like I said, you're bigger

(23:57):
than I am, right? So I would assume that you would
sink even more. So I know last time we talked,
you said you're a power lifter, the whole 9.
So did you find that that makes your water rescue stuff harder?
Or is it just something that you've been doing for so long
that it doesn't even affect you anymore?
You know this, but it doesn't for me, you know, weight lifting
weights and everything like that.

(24:18):
Like, listen, I'm, I'm 280, likeI'm a big dude, like naturally,
but I'm like country strength. You know, I've always done
manual labor. Like my dad was one of those
guys where it's like, hey, listen, we're going to you know,
hey, I need these, you know, 3 by eights up this ladder.
OK, well, dad, how can we get like a cherry picker for this
thing? No, carry it on your back.
All right, Well, I'm looking these things up there.

(24:38):
So for for me, it's, you know, doing that chopping wood or
whatever. So I don't really find it that
hinders me actually when I swim and everything like that
actually find that actually helps me out cardiovascular
because it takes a lot of the weight.
It takes a lot of the the pressure off your joints.
And plus swimming is one of the best things for your body
because it's a total body workout.
And swimming laps in a pool is great anyway because you can

(25:00):
your whole body's involved, which is great, you know, and
and guys don't realize like you can run a mile.
Good luck swimming a mile. Like you're going to feel it.
You're going to feel it a lot because it's just everything
that's going the entire time minus that.
Like, you know, when growing up I played baseball, I used to be
able to like I could still almost do a split like for my
flexibility, still pretty good. I surf, I snowboard, I do

(25:21):
everything that somebody who's 480 lbs shouldn't do.
I do so. But I mean, honestly, for for
me, when it comes to going with doing water rescues, obviously
I'm not as fast as I once was when I used to swim back in high
school and stuff like that. But let's put it this way.
When I jump in a pool, I kind oflook like a majestic orca.
So it's, it's kind of amusing when when these police recruits

(25:43):
sit there and look at me, they're like this, this dude's
huge. What the hell is he going to do?
And then I jump in and they're like.
OK, good, because I know if I was taking your class, I'd be
like, all of us do the same thing.
I'd be eyeballing you up and like that motherfucker's going
to sink like I sink. So this should be should be
interesting to see how much he struggles.
And then I could I could alreadysee it like a gazelle through
the fucking water and be like, what the hell is going on?

(26:05):
What's up with this freak? You know so well, thank you for
explaining all that. So let's talk.
Let's talk to listeners about since what is your jam, right?
What is your so for us in our world, we always say, hey, for
95% bread and butter house fire,which is no big deal.
We're fully trained. They go out within an hour.

(26:27):
It's not even a blip on the radar.
They're fun. We all kick ass, do a good job.
What is that in your world? So what kind of rescue would be
like your, your bread and butterrescue words?
Yeah, there's, there's adrenaline, there's risk to it.
But you're like, hey, I got thisguy Monday through Friday, all
day every day because, you know,on my game.
What's what's that for you guys in that realm?

(26:49):
Well, for for me, it's listen, I'll chase the I'll trace the a
gentleman. So, but for me it's, you know,
you get that one or two people out there where I can deploy
somebody, pick them up, loop around with a jet ski or go
hands on somebody. You know, I can have some fun
with that. Like for me, it's the rush of
just getting out there, but longbetween launching our ski, you
know, having somebody on the back that I know be like, yo,

(27:11):
let's have some fun. You know, whether it's me or my
crew member on the back there, like, hey, listen, God knows if
I fall off, he knows what he's doing.
So we, we rotate. So my big thing is, is, you
know, we spoke about it the lasttime is, is something I learned
from some old guys that were on SWAT team in Ocean County here,
you know, 20 something years agowas nobody's a specialist.

(27:33):
You specialize in everything. So whether you're a breacher or
if you're a sniper or if you're,you know, you know, the first
guy up or whatever your task is,you if you're not here, somebody
else knows what's the going on. You know, if if hey, listen, you
know, Tom's not here. Hey, you're on point, you're a
sniper, You know, you're our OPS, you're running, you know,

(27:55):
beat. And that's something where I try
to integrate it where hey, listen, where I could bring
somebody on this back of my ski.They know what's going on.
But when you get when you get, you know, everybody has their
guys where they're like, yo, this, if I want a truck, this is
my truck that I want. Like if you guys are going to
fire, be like, yo, this is this is going to be a house party.
Let's go. You know, you get a couple of
animals, like let's roll like. So for me it's, it's if I can

(28:16):
get that surf pumping a little bit, we get some, you know, 6 to
8 foot waves, you get that oh shit factor.
You're like, dude, we fucking got this.
And it's just waiting it out andfinding those, you know, and you
know, East Coast is a little differently than California and
the West Coast. But for, for me is, you know,
you see those lines starting to line up and you can get some
people that, you know, surfers especially that know how to read

(28:38):
that water boom. You can have some fun just
cruising through and rescuing that guy.
It's all that all that I'll takeit all that.
I love a challenge for it. But like I said, if I can get
out there with my ski and we cango pick somebody up and pretty
much just ride that light and look, let's go like let's have
some fun because nothing's better than, you know, staring
up at the, you know, staring up at this big wave of water and

(28:59):
punching through it and sitting there like looking back and be
like, holy shit, dude. We just went through a freaking
6 foot wave that was about to break on us and I'm taking 1000
LB freaking machine with me. Let's go.
So that's it's all that. Sounds amazing.
It sounds awesome. All the you know, it's, it's
literally, you turn around, you look at it, it's a whole
different way. I cannot imagine I I hope I can
one day. So like I said I would, I would

(29:21):
love to take your class one day for sure.
So let's go, let's go the opposite.
So we talked about like, hey, what gets your gives you the
hard on You're like, fuck yeah, let's go.
The boys are going to go to work.
What's the exact opposite where you're going?
Huh? Fuck me, this is going to be a
bad day. Like this is that low frequency,
super high risk? Like is that that riptide?

(29:41):
I mean what is what is your O shit factor when it comes down
to that water rescue realm, especially in your area?
So for my area right now, we have a bunch of beach
replenment. So one of the worst rips I was
ever in was when I was actually working as a police officer.
We, me and my partner wound up going after this lead that was
she was she was floating, she got sucked out a RIP or with the

(30:04):
beach replenishment project, what it was.
So like let's say we're in all beaches here, but once they
started filling in the sorry, your normal beach is here.
So no one they normally started filling in the beach.
This adjacent beach was like outside here.
Well, what happens? Is it's higher?
Right here, yeah. So it's higher.
So what happens is with a RIP isit's a natural buoy.
And with it being higher out here, there was nothing stopping

(30:26):
this because this water just coming in and pulling out so
this lady couldn't move. And meanwhile, this is still,
you know, you're 3-4 streets away and you're still trying to
go that way. You can't go.
You're stuck in no man's land. And me and my buddy were
probably 200 yards out trying tobring this lady in.
We wound up just camping out with her on a rescue can and

(30:46):
lifeguards came out and wound toprivate her own paddle boards.
And it's just more effective to get the the rescue.
But it just sucked because trying to swim in on that was
just the worst day ever because it was like, you know, when
you're swimming against a RIP with a RIP, it's great because
it's like a five mile an hour. You know, it's like throwing a
treadmill on, except the treadmill's behind you and
you're just, it's like hitting that turbo button back in like

(31:08):
NBA Jam, boom, you're gone. Yeah, so but but going against
it, you're, you're literally swimming at like 3-4 miles an
hour and this thing's hitting you at like 3 miles an hour and
you're just inching in and you're just like, dude, this is
just draining. Like it feels like you're
literally just working against yourself.
So that was a bad one. But normally when it comes down

(31:28):
to like crazy hurricanes, well, the big thing is I tell my guys
and it's kind of like anything else, like if you got a fully
engulfed fire, like dude, guys, we are not risking anything at
this point. Like do we have any report of
life being in there? No, if we have anything, you
know, other than property damage, like what are we risking
at this point? Because there's times where, you
know, we get out there, we get calls late in the season where

(31:50):
especially, you know, hurricane season goes out to like
mid-october, early November where you can still get some of
these big, big waves. Or we get nor'easters here on
the East Coast, which is nothingbut northeast winds for time and
time again, which just sucks because it's like 2-3 days of
it. What happens is the swell just
keeps pumping in and it just kind of kicks your ass because
of the entire time you're just kind of sitting there working

(32:12):
it. But the one thing I tell my guys
is, listen, we work in that pendulum where with some, our
goal is to go home at the end ofthe night, you know, and being
safe has always been my prioritywith it, You know, So what
happens is it's is I don't want to sit there and have send
somebody out. Well, next thing you know,
something happens and you know, there you go.
So I, I kind of tell them, like,listen, guys, just sit tight for

(32:35):
a second, you know, if it's safe, go, if not, I'm canceling.
Like I'm not going to risk you guys.
It's not worth it. It's not me.
It's worth sitting there in the stand being like, why do you
send these guys? Like if somebody's stuck out
there, like, dude, listen, we didn't put you in that spot.
You put yourself in that situation and I'm not going to
sit there and risk my guys for for some guy that decided that
he was going to go take a dip ona fucking day that was, you

(32:58):
know, 6 to 8-9 foot waves, 10 foot faces and try to see how it
is. It's just it's not worth it for
me because, you know, I think atthe end of the day, I think
we've all been in that leadership position where you
kind of look at it and be like, no, the risk, the risk isn't
worth the reward, no matter how sweet of a fucking reward it is.
Look, at the end of the day, youknow, we have to do what's right
for our families and for us. When sometimes it sucks being

(33:19):
that guy and being a Sergeant now, you know, it kind of sucks
that I like my guys going out there and getting something.
But I'm like, hey, listen, there's always let's there's
always a time to live and fight for tomorrow.
Let's set set that standard and,and kind of ride it out because
it's always safety 1st. And it's it's hard because I'm
that guy that, you know, just like you see where you want to
go out there to charge. But listen, dude, it's like,
hey, listen, yeah, we should probably not go on this route.

(33:41):
Dude, it'd be so sweet. We drop in, you cut that hole,
you get those air vent, you get the air flowing.
We can totally make it through this.
Listen, at that point, it's, it's one of those things where,
you know, those are my scary moments is trying to be that guy
that's sitting there on the beach calling and saying, hey,
listen, the the it's just not worth it.
Right, Yeah, we're we're done. So I'm I'm curious on that one

(34:05):
because so in and it's just out of being naive and not knowing.
So in our realm, in the in the fire service realm, always well
we should always search 100% of the time, even if someones
outside the house King hey guys,no ones in there.
We don't take the respective parties a word for any reason

(34:25):
because of 1000 different reasons.
So with that said, when do you guys in your world?
I see you guys. I mean, we're we're involved in
it too, but especially you running the show.
When do you say, Hey, what we'rewe're done When it comes down to
like first arriving on scene, doyou have to physically see
someone or is it like a time period from the last report that

(34:47):
you saw somebody? Like how does, if you don't mind
marching down to listeners, likehow does that work?
Do you guys always deploy A watercraft but then say, Hey,
we're not going to go, we're notgoing to commit a dude unless we
physically see somebody. I I don't know.
So that I mean there are questions if you don't mind
breaking. It down, Yeah, No, no, no, no.
So like it's, it's kind of like that where you guys were in that
SAS where you said you want to search completely.

(35:09):
So for me it's looking at it from a point of view where we
get a 911 call. All right.
And this is from the law enforcement outside of it.
So we get a 911 call. I see 3.
Three people were out there in the warm circle.
OK, what are they? They're wearing black wet suits.
OK, sit there and turn around and look.
All right, Well, you try to figure out what's the location.

(35:31):
Well, they're over there. OK, so let's say like W 84th St.
or E 84th St. All right, so I'm up there
looking. Don't see anybody.
Well, they were down a little bit farther.
OK, I don't see anybody. Oh, you know our job.
And we're sitting there obtaining the information on our
end of it, which then we try to we relate to the fire department
says, you know, our next follow up question is all right, How

(35:52):
long ago? About an hour ago.
OK. And what how what what happened
between then and then? Well, you might find where you
have somebody. Where?
Oh, I went down to go cook breakfast.
You know, I had to go get fluffya bath.
And then I came up, took a shower, and then I came up and
they were missing lady you didn't have your eyes on the
entire time. You know what?

(36:13):
How do you not know like or B I've had it to where it's 3
black ducks sitting in the oceanon a calm day.
I'm sitting with binoculars. I'm like, no, I'm not calling
fire out for three ducks becausethat's all that's out here.
But. They're fire.
They're not in. Distress.
Yeah, no, they're not fine. They're like, listen, Daffy's
out there floating around. He's having a great time.
It's all good. Yeah.

(36:33):
So. But now when it comes down to a
lot of different things, like we'll get like boaters in
distress when he calls for that same thing.
Where are they? Well, they're out there.
It's a fishing boat. The guy's trolling and so, well,
he hasn't moved. I go, he's fishing, you know?
So we'll sit there and like, we're sitting there and I'm
sitting there with the fire company.

(36:54):
Like we're sitting there like they're like, I got binoculars.
I'm like, nobody's in distress. I'm not panicking.
I'm like, so we're not going to go out there.
OK, hey, Coast Guard, if you want to go check this boat out,
have fun. But that's what we got.
But fire wise, like if we're theresponding agency, like for
certain city, like now we're theones responding to that scene.
Like we're going to get eyes on that victim.

(37:15):
All right. At that point, if we make the
call, I have my I've always had a safety officer on scene and
obviously, but then I'll have two spots, hopefully.
First, we're going to have one, we're going to have one guy
watching that victim specifically.
And then what's going to happen is we're going to have a second
victim or a second spotter on our guy.
So when he goes out, he's watching our guy specifically to

(37:38):
make sure everything's good. Then the second guy is watching
the other the victim. So when we go out there to
respond and we deploy, boom, we have a great spot to where they
can line up and set them up for success and they can kind of do
what they have today. But like I said, if it comes
down to a safety aspect of it and we're sitting there watching
like, yeah, so, so for me, it's it's I'd rather have safety

(38:00):
always where I told my my safetyofficer that I have really nice
dude, tons of experience in in New York and stuff like that.
Go you're you're my call said, listen, I will tell, I will show
you our capabilities. But my goal is if you say no, I
say no where the chief says no, it's no.
We have three people that can only say no or that say no.

(38:22):
Or if the guy sit there and say,hey, listen, this doesn't look
safe. We're not valid.
Like, you know, I know the capabilities of my guys that I
have on my unit. My thing is you're going home at
the end. We have 100% success rate.
But if it comes down to it and we're questioning ourselves or
our capabilities, and especiallyin the conditions that are

(38:43):
presented, it is wait for a more, a more effective time to
go find it. Or hey, let's get somebody on
that victim because maybe they can make their way in.
Or at that point, like unfortunately, if it comes down
to it, and like I said, if it's,you know, 10 to 12 foot with
hurricane serve, we're, we're not going to be rich.
There's very few agencies that are going to do that because it

(39:04):
just the, the risk versus rewardat that point.
Like it sucks to say that, but fortunately water's the great
equalizer where and if the oceanwants you, the Ocean's going to
take you. Like there's no turning back.
Like once you're in there, like you can make that turn, but you
know you, you could go as hard as you want, but what's going to
happen is, is that Ocean's just going to take you.

(39:27):
Ultimately what I tell my guys is listen, we're going to fuck
up. But when I take them out to
train, I go, listen, I'm going to call for a drill like 2 days
before, like 2 days before. And you're going to be like, why
don't you just call that? Because I want my guys training
in 6 to 8 foot, Sir. I want them training in the shit
because when it goes live, you know, like when you guys are in
your burn buildings, like when you guys are training at the

(39:48):
Academy and stuff. Oh, hey, we're going live.
Guess what? Hey, we've already done this.
We've already seen this. We've already been through
works. So now it's in second nature.
You know where I don't need to have you focusing in on holy
shit, that's a big wave. I have you focusing on what's
the best of life for me to get from here to that victim, you
know, because there's other place, the places.

(40:11):
They do what they do, but for meis I like to view things as a
scalpel, then a shotgun. You know, I want you to be slow,
precise and efficient. Every movement has a reason
behind it. Everything is determined to go
where we need to go. Even if you go hands on with
that victim, my crew members know like, hey, listen, if I got
to go hands on at this time, it's quick, it's snapped, happy.

(40:33):
You're in there, you're out, you're locked in.
Because if you have to sit thereand wait with that person for a
second, you got that rescue tubeon them, you've got to be able
to support them at least until that PwC can get back there and
whip back around and grab you and effect them to bring them
up. So yeah, so that's where I want
it to be. But ultimately it comes down to
training. And like I said, for me is, hey,
listen, it's great getting your basics down on those nice calm

(40:56):
days or two to three foot days because you kind of get a little
bit of it. But as soon as it hits a little
bit bigger waves 6567 foot, I want to try to get out there and
train and I go, listen, we're going to roll the jet ski.
It's going to suck. We might break something, it's
going to suck. But the way I look at it is,
listen, I rather break it in training, repair it and get it
back up and operational. But know that you guys are

(41:18):
pushing it because that's ultimately going to lead to
higher efficiency, higher progress, higher success.
I love it. Do me a favor here since you're
dropping so much freaking knowledge.
So anybody that's interested in being able to at least contact
you, take your class, maybe evenjust do a deep dive on water
rescue because they're like, shit, I don't know what I didn't

(41:40):
know. Right?
And it's the sparking interest. Explain to the audience how they
can find you, what you do. Do you travel outside of your
state? Just kind of dive on that if you
don't mind, my brother. Yeah, I'll travel anywhere.
If you have a comment on the US,I'll go overseas.
Well, I just had my passport worked out, but we're good.
But I'll go anywhere. Www.blackfaittraininggroup.com

(42:00):
Instagram, which were Steve family, that Black Bay training
group e-mail at it's at [e-mail].
But like I said, if you go to my, my online thing or even
Facebook Black Bay training group.
But like I said, those are the best ways of getting in contact
with me because, you know, like I said, I'll go anywhere.

(42:21):
You know, if you have something where it's, you know, as dumb as
it is, you know, the way I've always looked at things where,
you know, people think, oh, we won't have it here.
Well, when that that that lawsuit comes down the pipe for
these agencies, what what kind of water training have you done?
What have you done with this, have done with that?
You know, zero. You know, a lot of these guys
don't do anything, you know, but, you know, like I said,
Johanna has been one of the major things that that happened

(42:43):
in the fire service and everything.
And my goal is to try to negate a lot of that.
But also how many of these things, you know, cardiacs are
the biggest thing in law enforcement and fire.
That's the leading cause of death.
You know, people don't realize it, but how many of those things
where it's like, hey, this dude just literally just jumped, was
in a severe, you know, had a crazy water rescue the other day
or was in the pool, had a crazy Paul like or did this or did

(43:04):
that. Like, hey, what can we do, you
know, to save somebody? And if, if I can offer that,
that ability to give those stills out and offer these to
help anybody. All my programs meet and exceed
the NFPA standards and safety's at my forefront.
Like, listen, it's it's down to a science where it's like,
listen, we do a swim. I have a swim test we go with,
we deep dive into certain things.

(43:26):
I like I said, I have an awareness force for surface
water. We do operations technicians for
surface water. We're going to be branching out
into doing ice rescue and then doing, you know, the PwC course
because the PW CS huge. Like I said, we, we've reached a
lot, you know, we, you know, breakthrough a lot of the
different, you know, standards for the NFPA and everything like

(43:48):
that. My goal is to make it better,
better long run. That's listen, if it's one of
those things where even if it saves one life, it's worth it
for me. But just to get the experience,
like I said, you guys call me upin Arizona, I'm more than happy
to come out. I have a lot of my own year.
Bring all that shit out there. We can rock'n'roll.
It's a good time. It's definitely going to be
something where guys would be like all this kind of sucks.

(44:09):
But by the end of it, you know, I've had firefighters go, but
dude, I was completely against this from the start.
But dude, this was the best fucking class I've ever been to.
You know, I don't sugarcoat things.
So if I tell you to suck, you suck.
Sorry, dude. Listen, it's it's one of those
things where, listen, it's not because I don't like you.
It's because I have a job to do.And I don't want to give you
that false sense of security or false sense of promise where

(44:30):
it's like, well, he said I did good.
Well, yeah, you did when it cameto, you know, A&B, you know,
listen, when it came to actuallyfloating in the water or keeping
somebody afloat, you sent to thebottom of the pool.
I'm trying to get some standardsrevised for the NFPA to actually
make it a little bit more realistic for surface water,
because like I said, you have all these district different

(44:50):
disciplines. And if I can change a couple
things with that to make it better off.
That's the way I look at it. B being from the outside looking
in, it's just something where I'm just trying to help a
different field out overall, because overall it's one of
those things where, you know, it's teamwork overall, we work
hand in hand. You know, like for me, it's it's
listen, it's, it's it's something that I specialize in
that a lot of guys don't do. But when it comes down to is

(45:13):
safety 1st and that's always been my priority, throwing
through it. And I'd sit there and tell
everybody, listen, my awareness class is not going to teach you
to go in the water. It's not in the water course.
It's strictly awareness Now it's2-3 hours.
We go down to it, we do a deep, deep dive.
But I explain everything on my operation technician levels for
the surface water class. You guys are going to, they're

(45:33):
going to work, they're going to get the awareness level.
But then you're going to be working your ass off for 2, two
to three days. Two to three days you're going
to be working your ass off and you're going to be like, dude,
I'll hurt after the first. You'll be cramping like a
motherfucker by the end of the first day and then you'd be
like, oh shit, this is this is some of the most fun I had so.
It's awesome. Yeah.
Like I said, I know, I know I would be that guy cramping, but

(45:53):
probably loving every second of it.
So I definitely do look forward to taking your class and
hopefully the near future because that gives me an excuse
to go back out into Jersey too, which like I've told you before,
I just I love with the the deepest part of my soul.
So let's get into a couple of the questions here.
So I know we've always geared everything to firemen.

(46:14):
So this is good, right? So we on this podcast, we always
ask traditions, especially the fire service.
So this might be new for a lot of people, which I love.
It might be very similar. So we're going to find out.
So what's your favorite Police Department tradition?
I had to stop myself for a second there.
What's your favorite Police Department tradition?
But more importantly, why? Why is it?

(46:34):
Why? What do you?
What is it about it that you like so much?
The camaraderie, the ball bust thing, it's the always the best.
Like I mean, listen, what it comes down to like politics
aside and everything like that. Like listen, I just got done.
You just got done shooting at the range today.
It was a great time. Everybody loved it.
Like it's a great time. Like I'm sitting there grilling,
like everybody's having a good time.

(46:55):
We're having a good, you know, we're shooting, we're getting
our stress levels up. We're doing different things.
The camaraderie is always the best.
Like, I mean, the brotherhood's always there, you know,
Brotherhood, sisterhood, you know, but just that time
between, you know, that crazy call and the deeper or when
you're sitting there, you know, cleaning guns, busting balls,
that's the stuff that I'd live for, man.
It's growing up in a law enforcement family.

(47:15):
My father was a captain, a Lieutenant and got promoted to
captain to finish out his career.
It's it's a whole different world.
You know, it's, we do 12 hour shifts, you know, you do 12
hours a day, 12 hour night. You get over the weekend off,
which is great. You get to spend time with your
family and stuff like that. But the one thing is, is the one
thing I can't deal with is the the Punisher skulls and you

(47:38):
know, all the crazy, you know, some of the crazy like TikTok
things or the guys that sit there and say that they're like
Instagram gun gods or whatever. I'm like, dude, I'm like, listen
here, have fun. Like you guys are a whole
different breed on Instagram andstuff like that.
So but I have a great time with it.
Well, let's let's get in right into it then.
So the, the other part of that question would be if you could

(48:00):
snap your finger right and change something in the police
service, what would you change, eliminate, implement, whatever
it was. But the biggest key is 0 sweat
activity equity, excuse me, instant gratification.
What would it be? But more importantly, why are
you adding, deleting, changing, whatever this is in your in your
world brother? It's, it's one of those things

(48:20):
where, you know, I work in a great place like my, my
department's like awesome. Like they, we have a lot of
opportunities. We're very progressive now we're
moving forward to like a lot of guys, like my chief's awesome.
Like he's very much pro pushing it, pushing the patrol.
Like he supports the guys on that, which is great.
Like, and having leadership likethat's awesome.
But just some, some stupid things like the politics, like

(48:41):
everything, like anything else, it's that's one of those things
where I think every one of us, if you snap a finger, lose some
of the politics of the politicians that you're dealing
with, get rid of it. Like, hey, listen, we're
different. We're separate entities.
Like just leave us to fuck a lot.
We'll just do that. But I mean, listen, like I said,
my town, honestly, I'm blessed to work where I work.
I like to basically say I work at Disney World and it's, it's
great. Like it's fucking awesome.

(49:01):
I get, you know, 3-4 months for jamming and then the other nine
months I get to train. So I get we, we got the best of
both worlds. So you know, we're, we go from
like 5000 people year round to like 150,000 people for six
weeks, 8 weeks in the summertime.
And then the weekends it pops up, which is fun.
So that's where it's really cool.
So I get to train with my guys, you know, bring them out and now

(49:23):
doing what I'm doing with the fire company for Surf City works
out great because I get to hang out and do stuff with some of
those guys and bring some of that some of those antics with
and bring some of those things that I do and bring those in and
stuff. Yeah.
Just, you know, like anything else in politics or anything
like that, We're just the the TikTok cops or those guys that
sit there and say that, Hey, youknow, you know, and I'm sure you
guys got those in your in your field too, where it's like, you
know, you get some of these guyswho are like, dude, like every,

(49:47):
everybody wants to be an instructor or a trainer or
something like that. And some aspect of it.
It's like dude, you know, you know, there's a couple guys
online where it's like, dude, you were a cop for like 2 years
now you're just one quote gun guru that people turn to.
It's like dude, you literally were like a security guard, like
Paul Bart had more St. cred thanyou like, so you know, but like
I said, man, the brotherhood andeverything like that, it's

(50:09):
awesome. You know, like I said, where I
work, it's great. I really can't complain about
too much. They give me the ability to go
up to my police Academy. So you know, I can't really,
can't really bitch too much about that.
But you know, some of the some of the politicking, like like I
said, with anything else, it is what it is, but you got to
fucking snap it like, you know. You're the first person to ever
say that and I'm surprised no fireman's ever said that because

(50:31):
dude we're in the same boat. It's I had no idea how political
this job was until and I'm sure you were the same boat till you
got hired and you're like why why why the fuck is this even
part of this profession 100% Oh you're like you're like what the
hell. Like imagine what it would be
like without but I'm just curious because I don't know
this answer. We collectively I say we so the

(50:52):
American fire service. My personal opinion, my biggest
gripe with the American Fire service are individuals that
will state when I ask a question, hey, why do we do this
tactic? Why do you have that equipment?
Whatever the question is, the answer is always, we've always
done like this, right? Which I can't fucking stand.
I think that's the most uneducated, worst professional

(51:16):
answer ever because you're basically saying I don't fucking
know and I don't give a fuck to know what what to answer your
question basically. I'm just curious, do you guys
have those dudes in the police service or is that a fire only?
OK, so you're like, for example,again, I don't know, like, hey,
why do you why do you always engage with the guy or or like

(51:36):
save some sort of water modalityand the guy answers, well,
that's how I've always done it last 20 years, like I'm assuming
those guys, right? Yeah, no, OK, no, you'll always
get, you'll always that's, that's straight across the
board. Like no matter where you're at,
it's, it's all exact kind of stuff, you know, it's always, we
always done it like that doesn'tmean it was right.
Like especially nowadays, especially everything after, you

(51:57):
know, recent years and stuff like that, I don't really have
to recant a lot of different things because, you know, police
recruitment's been down for so long.
You know, we're, you know, even dealing with the younger
generations. And I know you touched on this
in a couple of the podcasts thatyou had was everybody's like all
these fucking kids, the younger guys, the younger guys.
Well, the younger we were, the younger guys at one point we had
other guys that were saying the same shit about us.

(52:17):
So what I try to do is I try to look at things because I kind of
bridge the gap. I'm only 38.
So like I said, you know, I've been around doing this since I
was 18. I kind of stuck in that weird,
that weird, you know, parallel where, you know, a lot of the
guys that are retirement startedbefore cell phones were even a
thing. That that was that was a whole
new thing. Once cell phones came in and

(52:38):
become a whole different world. Well, now it's freaking.
You have a $1500 computer on your, you know, in your hand and
everybody's sitting there. You know, we're back in the day
used to get people that would golike this and be like, Oh yeah,
I'm recording. Well, when I started, you
wouldn't have people recording, you'd have people helping you
out to lock somebody up that's, you know, trying to fight you.
So that's, that's always been the main thing.

(52:58):
But when it comes down to the, you know, oh, that's always how
we did it. Like we, we, it's kind of going
by the wayside. A lot of the progressiveness,
like New Jersey's very progressive with a lot of things
that we do for policing. Luckily, some of it's good, some
of it's redundant. Some of it, you know, you know,
you know, it's just completely asinine if you ask me
personally, because something's just as great as it is, you

(53:21):
know, there's a purpose behind it.
Do I think the grand purpose of behind what the actual reasoning
is is the right? Maybe not.
But listen, it's one of those things we're following into the
guidelines and everything like that that we have like that that
kind of has to fall into play. So listen, it's it is what it
is. Those are the guidelines that I
got to follow. So unfortunately, you know,
whether I disagree with it, you know, I haven't held the

(53:42):
standards where I got to follow it.
So, you know, that's where we'reat in Jersey.
So, but like I said, a lot of the stuff that we bring, like
police recruitment down in Florida and everything like
that, that's great. North Carolina, South Carolina,
you know, I like to brag that New Jersey is some of the finest
police officers in the country because we are so progressive
with so many of the things that,you know, I'm sure you guys
probably see it where guys come from California, where, you

(54:04):
know, from the Northwest, where they bring some things from up
north that you guys would never.It's never even on the radar
down in Arizona, which comes in or even when you work when you
first start out in Arizona, likeyou brought some shit from
Baltimore where it's like, hey, listen, guys, why the fuck are
we doing it? Oh, this is the always way we
do. Hey, listen, we do it like this
out east, Like, hey, it actuallyworks out better.

(54:24):
Like, hey, you know, I'm sure you had the one guy who sat, you
know, there was always that first guy.
That's like when I grabbed the hose off the truck.
I just grabbed the nozzle under one.
Hey, asshole, if you grab a whole fucking stack of line, you
can run a lot faster and get a lot more who's out before
fucking something else happens. You know, progression is always
good. But like I said, that's where
it's that's where it's always stopped where I think a lot of
guys are more open to things andbringing that that whole that's

(54:48):
the way we always did it by the wayside.
No, dude, I like, it's funny because, and I know this will
resonate with everybody listening as different as we
are, we are very, very, very similar when it comes down to
the, the type of dudes we are, the alpha personalities, the
banter, like everything else, it's, it's awesome.

(55:09):
And you know, and I, I knew thatalready because we currently in
the city I work and we have a very, very good relationship
with our Police Department, which was the opposite of what I
came from where we literally, weused to say like, and I, I know,
you know, back east, like so we all took like out here is a
little different out West, but back east you take a public
service exam, right? You want to be a a cop, a

(55:31):
fireman, a trashman guy depends how you score then what you want
to go to or whatever. But jokingly back East, we used
to say all the time, they're like, Hey, you know why we waved
to cops and they're like, especially the new guys like to
be nice. They're like, no, bro, five more
points that could have been a fireman, right?
Just like joking around on theiron their civil service exam.
But you know, it's, it's crazy because we have a really, really

(55:53):
good relationship with our cops.Thank fucking God, you know, and
it is a world of difference, butit it's funny because as much as
we bust each other's balls, we're always there for each
other, but more importantly, we're similar.
So kind of so kind of wrapping it up with that.
If you couldn't have done policeor water, right, because I know
that's your jam. What in the world would you have

(56:15):
done? Would you have like you're a big
dude. Would you've been like, would
you have tried to be a power lifter football player?
Like if you couldn't have done what you do currently right now,
what do you think you would havedone with your life, brother?
Well, as we previously stayed onthe last one, I would have
picked up like, you know, Amazonor NVIDIA when it was like $5.
Well, we said Apple five, $5 Apple shares, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're good now.

(56:38):
I love baseball. I grew up playing baseball.
I love baseball. Was my past time forever and
they loved it. Ate, eat, sleep and breathe
baseball. That's what I did.
OK. Well, yeah, that would have been
my dream job. So Pipe Dream would have been a
professional baseball player. Pipe dream 100%.
I wish I would have been like 1 soda like you know, make it 708
hundred $800 million. I'll be set for lifelong goods.
Yeah, that's. Yeah, yes.

(56:59):
No, I mean, listen, you know, honestly, I probably would have,
you know, if, if, if what fell didn't work, you know, I
probably would have went and tried doing fire.
You know, wasn't really my cup of tea growing up.
You know, for me was I was like I said, police officer really
wasn't even on my, my, my state affairs till I'm like 16 years
old. And I kind of realized that I
wasn't going to be drafted in the major leagues.

(57:21):
So I kind of started going in the other direction said, hey,
well, how can I set myself up? And college really wasn't my
thing. I wanted to in a couple years at
a Community College, I did that,you know, coinciding with when I
got hired. But my goal was to get hired,
get in as like as soon as I could when I was younger, start
that pension clock. We do 25 here and then we're big

(57:41):
to go so. Cool, good deal.
All right brother, we'll listen.First of all, thank you for your
time round #2 we had some technical difficulties, but it's
it's always good. So again, thank you for sitting
down again. I want to point out to the
audience that is watching on your lid, which I love the fact
what it says on the top burn theships.

(58:01):
That's amazing. So that's, you know, that's our,
that's our whole jam right here.So before we close out, is there
anything you want to leave just a general audience with?
So you're, you know, you're talking to public safety,
firemen, cops, everything else? Is there anything you want to
just kind of close out on then either just where your area that
you work, the water section or or whatever you want to do

(58:24):
brother. Yeah.
Listen, if you guys have questions, reach out.
Like, listen, what's the worst Icould say?
No, you know, from the grand scheme of things, if, if I can
help any agency out 100% for it.You guys are looking to
implement any programs, start upanything, reach out to me.
I'm more than happy I've implemented three programs right
now. We're getting rolling against
for hopefully another agency soon enough, whether it's like I

(58:47):
said, rescue watercraft service ward or anything like that.
You guys can meet me, you know, hear me on Black Bay training
group on Instagram for, you know, Black Bay [e-mail] or
www.blackbaytraining group. Listen, you know, everybody be
safe out there. It's most and foremost, you
know, kiss your families, hug them, you know, and always make
sure that you know, at the end of the day, you guys are going

(59:09):
home safe because that's really all that matters in this place
is, is making sure you and your families, you know, go back to
your love, because I can't reiterate that enough because
you get some people out there that just want to be Cowboys.
Like, listen, it's cool, but youalso got to make sure that punch
on this one is going to swing your favorite because you know,
nothing's worse than being that person that's doing those
notifications and somebody who'sdone it quite a few of them

(59:29):
before. It sucks when you're that that's
that's making that announcement to that fan.
Just always make sure you guys are ready to roll with that.
So best thing to do is just be safe, you know, And we're off on
it. All right.
Well, with that, we'll kind of end it up.
So again, a Black Bay training reach out to Paul.
He's at one of the boys, right? So if he can't help you, I am

(59:51):
positive he will send you in thecorrect direction.
So please, yeah, reach out to him.
And again, Paul, thank you my brother for sitting down.
I can't wait to get back to Jersey and then take a class and
and maybe do a live stream and abunch of photos and everything
else. As long as you, if you do drown
me, just bring me back and and we're good brother.

(01:00:12):
All. Right.
Well, listen again. Thank you everyone that sat down
and listened to us. Thank you for listening.
And again, if you have any waterquestions, calls your guy, reach
out to him on Instagram or his website or e-mail.
All this information I will pin down below in the show notes.
So we'll see guys in another twoweeks.
Appreciate your brother. Alright, no worries, Steve.
Thanks for listening, We'll be back in another two weeks.

(01:00:36):
Remember to like, share, review if you can.
Helps drive traffic to our podcast.
Remember, let's leave our ego out of the fire service.
It's amazing what we can accomplish when no ones looking
for credit. Much love.
Let's stop eating our own. Become better firemen.
Catch you next time.