March 19, 2025 • 39 mins
Two extraordinary scientists, Lingbing Zhang and Suzanne Kennedy, share their revolutionary approach to treating cancer cachexia, a deadly wasting syndrome that affects 80% of stage four cancer patients and causes 30% of cancer deaths despite receiving almost no attention in mainstream treatment.
- Personal journeys led both scientists to study cachexia - Kennedy after losing a childhood friend to leukemia and Zhang through his fascination with immunology
- Cachexia is not simply weight loss but an immune disorder causing the body to destroy itself
- Unlike popular belief, increased caloric intake cannot reverse cachexia
- 30% of cancer patients die from cachexia rather than their primary cancer
- Nearly all pancreatic cancer patients have had cachexia for a year when first diagnosed
- The scientists left prestigious positions to found Akexis, developing the first drug targeting the immune dysfunction driving cachexia
- Their treatment could revolutionize cancer care by allowing anti-tumor treatments to work more effectively
- The drug has completed preclinical work and proof of concept trials with promising results
- Their team includes renowned cancer researchers from Cedars-Sinai and Rush University
To learn more about their groundbreaking work or support their mission, visit akexis.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carol Park (00:02):
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Courage
Unmasked podcast.
As you know, we are justhearing people's stories.
We've heard amazing storiesabout just the courage of
vulnerability, and today we havetwo very special guests, and
it's a little bit different thansome of our other episodes have
(00:22):
been in that we have twoscientists who are researchers,
who have spent their careersstudying cancer, and they have
developed a drug specificallyfor stage four cancer patients
to help increase survival rates.
I mean just amazing, amazingresearch.
(00:44):
Two amazing people, lingbingZhang and Suzanne Kennedy, and
so I'm going to let them speakmore to the drug, their research
, how they came to this point indoing this, and so thank you to
you both for being here on thepodcast this morning.
Suzanne Kennedy (01:02):
Thank you Carol .
Lingbing Zhang (01:04):
Thank you for inviting us to be on your
podcast.
Carol Park (01:08):
Yes, I'm so honored that y'all are here, so tell us
a little bit about how you cameto be scientists, researchers
and studying cancer.
Suzanne Kennedy (01:20):
Yeah, so I'll start and yes, thank you so much
, carol.
It's an honor to be on yourpodcast today.
So for me, my journey as ascientist and a cancer scientist
started very young.
I always had an affinity forscience, but it was around I was
12 years old and I lost afriend a neighborhood friend to
(01:41):
leukemia and I just could notunderstand how this could happen
.
I could not understand how herown body could have deceived her
and I watched the familyturmoil going on and I watched
the family split apart over thatand it just really it hit me in
a deep way that it was nowgoing to be what I was going to
(02:03):
study for the rest of my lifeand I knew that I had to
understand this, what washappening, and I wanted to
understand cancer and leukemia.
So I really gravitated toeverything science and I knew
that I wanted to get a PhD.
I went to the VirginiaCommonwealth University for a
PhD in microbiology andimmunology and while I was there
(02:26):
, of course, I went right to thelab studying leukemia the same
leukemia that my friend diedfrom and so, working in that lab
trying to understand thisdisease and academics, I did a
couple more postdocs indifferent areas of protein
biochemistry and cancer drugs.
And then I made a pivot intothe biotech world and so in the
(02:51):
academic space this is usuallysomething that gets frowned upon
, but I knew that I wanted to bemore, have more of a team.
I needed to be part of a team.
So I went into biotech.
I moved from the East Coast tothe West Coast, worked at some
of the biggest biotechs outthere QIAGEN and VITRAGEN
(03:11):
developing my business skillsproduct marketing, global
marketing, business developmentand then R&D and I was running
R&D for a smaller company at thetime.
I became an expert in the humanmicrobiome, which is an area
that we hear a lot about, andthis human microbiome and your
gut and how your gut is reallycontrolling a lot of the
(03:34):
processes in our body.
So I made another pivot.
I left California and my highpaying job.
I went to Houston, texas, andwent back to the academic world
at Baylor College of Medicine,pursue my own questions and my
own research around pancreaticcancer and the gut microbiome,
(03:56):
and so I worked on a grant.
I got a grant to look at thisprocess.
I wanted to see if there wereways that we could measure
pancreatic cancer and detectpancreatic cancer sooner through
the stool, through themicrobiome.
And it was while I was atBaylor that I attended a talk by
an MD Anderson oncologist onpancreatic cancer, and he was
(04:20):
talking about cachexia.
Now cachexia is, for people whohave never heard that word
before, it's wasting disease.
It's a wasting syndrome.
Everyone has seen it.
If someone you love has cancer,you've seen them lose weight
and lose weight and lose weightuntil they cannot tolerate
(04:40):
anything, not even water.
That process of wasting, thatimmune disorder, that's what
we're talking about.
And the oncologist at MDAnderson, he said this is what
we need to fix, this is what weneed to solve for pancreatic
cancer patients to be able tosurvive.
And so that was for me a newchange, a new idea.
(05:05):
So after Baylor College ofMedicine, I went back into
pharma.
I worked for a biotech companydeveloping antisense DNA drugs.
I started a program for a newtarget that I thought would
target cachexia and pancreaticcancer, and then, after that, I
went to a startup developingnutritional foods for people
(05:26):
with pancreatic cancer.
So, still in the mindset ofcould you eat enough calories to
get ahead of wasting was theway I was thinking about it.
And so, at this startup,glycosbio out of Houston had a
novel technology that if yourpancreas didn't work, you could
still get your calories.
So I went there and wasdesigning nutrition for
(05:48):
pancreatic cancer patients.
But the fact is that I havelearned through all of the
research that you cannot eatenough calories to beat cachexia
, because cachexia is notanorexia, cachexia is the body
is destroying itself.
The body is in a irreversibleprogressive program,
(06:11):
self-destruction, and you cannoteat calories to get out of that
.
And so really that has changedmy thinking tremendously, and
really that's what brought whatbrings me here today to take all
the cancer research that I'velearned and to focus on this
particular problem.
And so that is how I met DrLingbing Zhang, and so, before
(06:33):
we go on, I will pass it over tomy partner and his incredible
career.
We'll talk a little about hisjourney, thank you.
Lingbing Zhang (06:42):
Thank you for.
Thank you, suzanne, amazingappearance.
So yeah, I can tell a littleabout my journey to study cancer
.
Actually, I also make a changeduring my career.
Like Suzanne, in the beginningI'm not studying cancer.
I majored in molecular biology.
I studied the genes, sunflowergenes, the function.
(07:03):
But someday I came across abook.
It's a book of immunology.
I read the book.
I found the immune system isreally amazing.
So we have so many differentcomponents in our immune system.
They work together in order tomaintain our health.
I found it very interesting.
I read many books I can find atthe time.
(07:26):
I really get intrigued by theimmunology, so I make a decision
in my entrance exam for a PLDprogram in China.
I spent several months.
(07:49):
I teach myself immunology.
I have no background inimmunology but I'm very good at
learning.
I can find all the materials,the books I can find.
It took me just several months.
I took the examination.
I passed the exam.
Actually, I was the number onestudent, the candidate, in the
(08:12):
whole medical school of theuniversity and then I got
accepted.
It was an amazing startactually.
I began my research on cancerimmunology at the lab in China.
Actually, the mentor, dr Zhuisa, renowned professor in
(08:33):
immunology in China.
I'm very lucky to start myjourney in his lab so I studied
the role of macrophage in cancerdevelopment.
I think it's a very goodresearch project and it goes
very smooth.
And I got my PhD degree withinthree years, a short time.
(08:56):
And then I got lucky again so Igot an offer from Stanford
School of Medicine.
So I got an offer from StanfordSchool of Medicine and then I
moved with my whole family, mywife and my son, who was 18
years old at that time.
We moved to Stanford and Icontinued my cat research and
(09:24):
the lab of Dr Jeffrey Norton,who is an internationally known
surgical oncologist, alsopioneer in the research of
catecholoxia.
Dr Norton began to publishpapers about catecholoxia in the
80s and 90s very early, muchearlier than the mainstream.
Actually, right now we have alot of scientists, researchers,
studying catecholoxia, but atthat time there were very few
(09:45):
people.
Dr norton is one of them.
Because dr norton is a surgicaloncologist, we can study the
most the highly clinicallyrelevant question about the
cataract in his lab.
So that's including the projecton catechol caccia.
That's my first time to knowcatecholoxia and begin my
(10:07):
research on catecholoxia, and wemade some very important
discovery, like we found, theroot cause of catecholoxia is
the immune problem, is theimmune disorder.
Basically, catecholoxia is animmune-driven syndrome, not like
most people think in the field.
(10:29):
A lot of people at the time webegan to study on catecholoxia.
Most people in the field thinkcatecholoxia is muscle weighting
.
But as you said, catecholoxiais not only a weighting issue,
it's not only a muscle problem.
You give nutrition, you givethe food.
You cannot reverse that right.
(10:52):
So we believe catechis inessence is an immune problem.
So if we believe that to treatcatechis we have to modulate,
treat the immune system, but inthe field we found no company do
that.
Most people still focus onmuscle weighting.
That's the reason.
That's the moment I think Ineed to do something.
(11:14):
Then I leave Stafford, start mycompany to develop treatment
for cataclysmic cachexia bymodulating the immune system.
That's the beginning of myjourney.
Also, right now I'm proud tosay we are developing the most
promising treatment for cardiaccachexia With Suzanne.
I think we will make the changefor the million patients who
(11:37):
need the treatment.
Yeah, maybe I stop here so wecan continue the conversation.
Carol Park (11:42):
Well, I think it's just amazing how the two of you
that were on your own separatejourneys, you know, driven by
different passions, that yourpaths merged and here the two of
you are today developing thisdrug to help this, really
(12:04):
cachexia, which, Suzanne, I canappreciate.
I am a licensed professionalcounselor but I'm also a
registered dietitian and socertainly in my studies of
dietitian, worked on some of theoncology units and we would
have said, cachexia, we have toget them more calories.
You know that that's the answer, but with the continued
(12:26):
research that y'all have doneand the understanding that it's
an immune system problem andcalories aren't going to fix it,
that you need medication, adrug that's going to help to
reverse this, so that people canhave the chance to survive, so
that the treatments can work andthey can live, Because
(12:47):
sometimes, as we know, it's notthe cancer that becomes the
thing that becomes terminal,Sometimes it's that the body
can't survive the treatments orthat the body goes into other
conditions and it can't surviveto be able to get more treatment
.
So I know that your drug thatyou've been developing and,
(13:09):
Suzanne, I just have to say whata bittersweet story.
You know the sweet of you doingthe research and and meeting up
with Ling Bing and y'allcontinuing this, but the bitter
of your friend at 12 years olddying from leukemia Like what a
bittersweet.
And again, the fallout for thefamily of the death of a child
(13:31):
is just so profound.
So again, I think y'all havedone a good job to describe
cachexia and that it's more thanmuscle wasting.
It's not a matter of gettingmore calories into the patient.
It's an immune disorder.
That you've been.
Is there anything else that, aslisteners, we might need to
(13:53):
understand about cachexia thaty'all haven't already touched on
?
Suzanne Kennedy (13:58):
Yeah, there are a couple of additional
information I mean I thinkpeople would be interested to
know.
One is that 80% of all cancerpatients are going to have
cachexia when they get to stagefour 80%.
There's nothing when you're inthis stage.
(14:25):
There's nothing that thephysician has to offer you, and
this is one of the things thatmotivates us.
30% of cancer patients will diefrom cachexia and not their
cancer and research that waspublished from Data Pharma
Cancer Center last year.
Nearly all pancreatic cancerpatients have had capixia for a
year when they're diagnosed.
So here are people that arealready in this irreversible
(14:50):
progressive wasting syndrome atthe start of their treatment,
and what this means to us isthat this condition needs to be
treated at the beginning.
So once you're diagnosed withpancreatic cancer, once your
patient has experienced 5% ormore weight loss and they have
(15:11):
cancer, that is when they needto address cachexia and start
working on the reversal.
It's been left to the end, tohospice.
When a person's in hospice now,you're trying to give them high
protein nutrition drinks.
That's not the time, that's notgoing to alleviate pain, it's
not going to extend life, butyet that is where cachexia
(15:33):
treatment has always remained.
So what we're here to say isthat if we can treat patients in
the beginning, when it's anearly stage of cachexia, we can
reverse this process.
We can give people the timethat they need, the strength
that they need to make itthrough the treatment, make it
through to the end, and maybe wehave excellent treatments for
(15:56):
pancreatic cancer right now, butwe don't have the treatment for
cachexia.
If you have cachexia, noanti-tumor treatment can work
because the body's trying todestroy itself.
So we can really trulyrevolutionize cancer research by
solving this problem.
And now we can look at theefficacy of the drugs.
(16:16):
The anti-tumor drugs that areout there could be working even
far better than they do once wesolve this problem.
And so that's why we're sofocused on solving cachexia as
an immune disorder, because itopens the door for survival.
Carol Park (16:34):
This makes so much sense to me.
So I just have to ask a sidequestion, if you will of I know
y'all have focused morepancreatic cancer.
We know that that typically isa terminal diagnosis and I know
we've talked in.
This is the hope of y'all'sresearch is that it doesn't have
(16:56):
to be terminal and that it'snot all just about the
pancreatic cancer.
It's about this other syndromegoing on, this cachexia that is
wasting the body so that youcan't treat the cancer.
Does this also happen withother cancers, not just
pancreatic?
I mean, cachexia is not justabout pancreatic cancer, is that
(17:20):
right?
Suzanne Kennedy (17:21):
Absolutely so.
The GI cancers have the highestrates of catexia, the fastest
killing cancers ovarian liver,esophageal, colorectal all of
these patients will be at highrisk for catexia Cancers like
breast cancer, prostate cancer.
You don't see cateaxia as oftenunless the person is in stage
(17:45):
four.
Once the person is got a veryhigh tumor burden and they're in
stage four now, the risk goesway up.
So that's why 80 of allpatients will have cataxia when
they get to an advanced stage.
But these certain cancers thatare GI-related are accelerating.
(18:06):
They're accelerated cachexiaand I think, Dr Zhang, do you
have something to add to that?
Lingbing Zhang (18:12):
Yeah, I think Suzanne has done a very good job
to explain cachexia.
I think cachexia the bodyweight loss actually is only the
manifestation of the bigproblem, the immune disorder.
I think that's why I thinkSudam made a good point.
When you begin the treatmentearly, I also suggest the
(18:32):
patient pay attention to yourbody weight Because if you have
began to have catechisia, thatsuggests that you have immune
disorder underlying.
The immune disorder not onlycauses cachexia, it also causes
other damage to your body, toyour organ damage.
It also causes your.
Basically, when you have animmune disorder you are about to
lose response to cancertreatment.
(18:54):
So this is a very big issue.
By reworking cachexia we arenot only to improve the quality
of life but also maintainpatient response to the
anti-tumor treatment.
Then they can maintainlong-term remission.
The reason why we start frompancreatic cancer from the
beginning is the pancreaticcancer patient has a high
(19:17):
occurrence of catechol cacacea.
Actually, that's the reason whywe cannot improve the survival
of the paracancer for decades.
We have a decade effort tostudy paracetamol cancer but
still the five-year survivalrate is still very low compared
to other cancers.
So cataract cancer happened notonly in paracetamol cancer.
(19:41):
Actually, pancreatic cancer canhappen in almost all types of
cancer.
Just some cancers it happenedwith higher occurrence, some
kind of a low occurrence.
But most lethal cancers likepancreatic cancer, lung cancer,
colon, regative cancer, happento have the high risk of
cachexia.
I think that's the reason webelieve catechic cachexia is a
(20:04):
big issue for the care-relatedcancer.
If we can reverse cachexia wewill change how we treat lacy
cancer.
Many patients can survive andget the treatment for the tumor
to pursue the long-termremission or even the cure.
So I think that's why webelieve we are working on
something huge.
(20:24):
That huge can really change thecare.
So I know that the talent ishuge, but we know the impact
will be huge.
Carol Park (20:33):
You know, I have to give a little side story here
because it's a little close tohome, to be quite honest.
A little close to home, to bequite honest.
My son, right before his 31stbirthday, was actually diagnosed
with stage 3C colon cancer andhe actually, I'm listening to
(20:54):
y'all and thinking, oh, he wasin the hospital because of
significant and he was not a, hewas a small man to start with.
He's alive, he's doing well letme just preface this but he was
put in the hospital because ofso much weight loss and his body
was just wasting away and theyput in the chart, they put it as
(21:17):
failure to thrive.
But I'm listening to y'allthinking, I think this is what
he had, as somehow he did, hisbody worked enough to pull him
out of that.
He did get the treatment thathe needed.
But I'm listening to y'all andthinking, oh my gosh, I think it
was this, and you know, thedrug that y'all are maybe could
(21:40):
have prevented some of itbecause he was suffering.
It was really hard to watch asa mom, as you can imagine, and
so I'm listening to this andjust thinking, oh, so much hope.
And again, maybe because of hisyounger age, his body was able
to reverse and he was able tocome out of it.
But I can just imagine that somany people as I listen to y'all
(22:05):
don't and so the hope and allof this is just amazing.
So wow, so okay, I know too.
Sorry, a little segue there but,I'm listening to you just
thinking, whoa, this is sopowerful.
And I hear and I know that bothof you are so incredibly
(22:26):
passionate about this and thatyou care about human life so
much, and you've literally spentyour lives studying this and
coming to this place whereyou're developing this, this
drug.
So you know, let me go back toLingbing.
Like Lingbing, after, like,your 20 years at Stanford, I
(22:50):
mean, this is like the pinnacleof a career.
Right, You're 20 years atStanford, but you made a
decision to leave there becauseof your passion, decision to
leave there because of yourpassion.
What gave you the courage andwe're talking about the courage
of vulnerability, thevulnerability, the uncertainty,
(23:11):
the risk, the emotions to stepout of a very stable we know the
direction of this career topursue really a startup company
and develop this drug andeverything that goes with that,
not just the research, butgetting funding, putting it out
there, continuing to validatethat.
(23:32):
It's like.
How did you?
What gave you the courage totake the leap?
Lingbing Zhang (23:37):
Yes, thank you for the question, but first I
want to say I'm sorry to hearabout your son.
Yes, thank you for the question, but first I want to say I'm
sorry to hear about your son.
I think I'm also happy to knowhe got out of the cachexia and
recovered.
I think the good news we knowcachexia is very lethal, it's a
deadly syndrome, but the goodnews is it's reversible, like
your son, we believe, because Ithink I want to say to patients
(24:02):
who are suffering from cachexiaright now, I will tell you
cachexia, although it is severe,but it is reversible If we
treat the.
You know there are somepatients they can recover from
cachexia by treating their tumor.
Usually, if their tumor isbound to the treatment, they
will recover from cachexia.
For patients who cannot recoverfrom cachexia automatically,
(24:23):
the treatment they will recoverfrom cachexia.
For patients who cannot recovercachexia automatically without
treatment, because we have a lotof patients at this stage their
tumor began to lose response totreatment For that group of
patients we still have anapproach method to help them to
reverse cachexia.
I think I hope patients can.
Even we have mentioned a lot ofthe deadly syndrome, how deadly
(24:44):
cachexia is, but we hopepatients can keep the hope right
Because the treatment we havedeveloped the treatment for you.
And then I will go to answeryour question how I started my?
Because I studied cancer for along time, cancer for a long
(25:08):
time, so most time I my majorfocus.
I studied cancer cachexia formore than 10 years for cancer
more than 20 years.
The major finding in my careeris that the immune disorder
driven cachexia.
But at that time I found people, companies that developed
treatment for cachexia by theblotting muscle weighting.
I follow the field.
I see I don't believe that canwork but I follow.
(25:29):
And then in about 2015 or 2016,there are two companies.
They develop cachexia.
They have program.
They failed in clinical trial.
At that time I know itbasically confirmed my condition
because based on my research, Ibelieve catechol cacase can
(25:49):
only be reversed by treating theimmune disorder.
By treating the muscle, bytreating the appetite.
You cannot really reversecatechol cacase.
Maybe you can have some effecton the symptoms, you can help a
patient gain some body weight,but the real problem in the
immediate soldier is still there.
So that's my belief.
(26:10):
So I think I know it takes a lotof courage to start a company.
For me, as a scientistbackground.
It's a totally different life.
To start a company, you need toraise money, you need to talk
with investors.
You need actually I'm not surethe audience know the process to
(26:31):
develop a drug.
To develop a drug, it takes alot of work.
You need to develop thecompound drug Also.
You need to run a thought study.
You need to have the CMC, themanufacturer, the regulatory,
the patents.
There are lots of aspects ofknowledge I don't have actually,
(26:52):
but I have to do that.
The reason is simple.
At that time, I believe, if Idon't do that, nobody maybe I
shouldn't say this this seemstoo ego, I guess but if I don't
do that, I think we cannotdevelop, we will never develop
treatment for catecholamide.
It takes a big courage to makethe change in my life, but the
(27:15):
real reason behind that issimple, just like this.
So I still today, today I havemore confidence than before.
I know we have the program.
Right now it's ready forclinical trial.
We have the various potentanimal data.
We also finished, recentlyfinished, a proof of concept
(27:35):
trial and the C-data cyanide.
So the data is very strong,just consistent with our
observation in animal studies.
But at that time, that's eightyears ago, I don't have so
strong data, so it takes courage, but I just think I have to do
that.
I think you know, I knowmillions of patients are
(27:56):
suffering from this.
If I have a solution, I think Ihave obligation to do that.
So I'm happy.
Actually, today I make thedecision.
At that time I'm confident thanany time before.
I think we will really make thebreakthrough for cataclysmic
cachexia.
Especially with Suzanne joiningme as the co-founder right now
(28:16):
I can feel more confident thanbefore.
So I think At that time it'svulnerable, it takes courage,
but today I'm proud I made thedecision.
Carol Park (28:29):
Yes, you really aligned with your value and your
passion.
And I think when we do, it'slike we have integrity.
And I mean that not of like oh,I tell the truth.
I mean our insides match ourout, like we have this passion
and this vision and we pursue itand that just gives us that
(28:51):
sense of wholeness.
And, like you said, I wouldhave regrets if I didn't have
the courage to make that leap,because I know this is going to
make a difference in so manypeople's lives here.
And moving forward and y'allboth have mentioned that it's
like okay, you're scientists,you're researchers.
(29:12):
This is kind of how your lives,your careers have gone and now
you have this drug and now youhave to also be business people,
which is probably alsovulnerable.
Right, Like okay, now we haveto have a business so that when
this medication gets all theapprovals it gets, you know,
(29:36):
then we can put it out on themarket.
And that takes a business, ittakes a plan, it takes funding
and money to continue to do this, and that's vulnerable too.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour company, your business that
you founded, and kind of what'sthe process?
Suzanne Kennedy (29:58):
Okay, well, I'll, I'll start with this one.
So, yes, so a Texas is whatwe've called our company,
because we want people to bewithout the kexia or in a Texas.
And so our company right nowwell, our focus right now is
fundraising.
We have, as Lingbing has toldyou, that he did a tremendous
(30:21):
amount of work, with somepre-seed funding, to get this
drug manufactured, to generateall of the safety data, to move
ahead.
So that's where we're reallyfocusing right now as a company
is on our fundraising, and mybackground in business that I
gathered and then working in twostartups, really gave me some
(30:44):
of the know-how to help us getstarted and help us start
working with looking forinvestors.
And then we brought in a team.
We've brought in experts tohelp us.
We recognize there are thingsthat we don't have expertise in
but that we need, and so we'refinding just the most incredible
human beings coming to us,around us, supporting us,
(31:08):
different advisors that all seethis mission as important and
are trying to help bring thismedication to people.
So for Apexia, for our company,we're starting off with Apexia.
We want to help.
We're focused on the pancreatic, colorectal and lung cancer
patients.
(31:28):
Our lead investigator, ourprincipal investigator, is Dr
Andrew Hendefar fromCedars-Sinai, los Angeles.
He's a huge champion for thisprogram and for us.
He ran a proof of conceptclinical trial on a version of
the drug to help us have evenmore data to show on the
(31:50):
clinical level that we will besuccessful.
We also have Dr Philip Bonomifrom Rush University, one of the
most renowned cancer scientistsin lung cancer, as part of our
team working closely with us.
So we have some amazing peoplesupporting this mission and
supporting Akexis.
Yeah, and I think did I answerthat question?
(32:11):
Yes, you answered it.
Carol Park (32:13):
Yes, and I just think I was thinking y'all are
the dynamic duo, but I hear thatyou're just bringing even more
people experts in their fields,like I can really see this just
moving forward, as y'all justhave so much passion around this
.
Obviously there are setbacksthat can happen in, you know,
(32:38):
startups and developments ofdrugs and all what keeps you
going, what keeps y'all goingwith this going with this.
Lingbing Zhang (32:48):
Well, I think, as Soudar introduced the
CACACCIS, I would like to sayyou know, compared with you know
, after Soudan joined me, weformed the CACACCIS, the company
.
I think we have the, as Soudarsaid, we have a group of amazing
people.
I suggest the audience haveinterest can visit our website,
(33:12):
kexiecom, A-K-E-X-I-Ecom.
We have the best experts in thefield, kind of Kexie, who are
supporting us.
We have the programming readyfor clinical trial.
We finished all the preclinicwork.
We have the strongest data.
We have the approved concept ofclinical trial.
I think we are moving forwardFrom now.
(33:41):
We are moving forward veryquickly.
Before we formed CACAXIA, I feellike I'm working alone in the
past several years.
The process to make a realinnovation is a lonely,
challenging process.
Right, it's even morechallenging if you're trying to
find a solution for a problem.
Nobody has a solution, nosuccessful experience.
You cannot follow all theprograms before us on how to
(34:03):
connect the field.
That's the challenge.
Healed, you can imagine thechallenge.
So I think, with CACaxiaalready formed, we are moving
forward quickly.
But, as you said, we still havesome challenges.
I think the major challengeright now, I guess, is that
cacaxia, although doctors knowit's very important.
(34:25):
It's very common but stillthere are not a lot of people
know that it's better forinventors.
Sometimes we need educatinginventors to let them know the
significant unmet medical need,the huge unmet medical need.
But because no program, no drugapproved in US Patients
(34:47):
audience may know, althoughcacagasy is the big issue in
late-stage care, there are noone FDA-approved drug, Basically
no drug right now.
Doctor know the issue, Patientssuffer from that, from the
syndrome, but we have nosolutions.
That's the situation right now.
I think the good thing is thatwe have the top experts like Dr
(35:08):
Bonomi, Dr Henifang.
We have the strong data.
We have the programs ready.
We are slowly convincing someinvestors supporting us.
I think it's getting better butstill challenging there, like
any biotech company.
Right, you need For myself andSuzanne.
Another challenge is we need tokeep learning, Because the
(35:31):
knowledge we have before wealways need to learn new
knowledge.
We are scientists in backgroundFor the building, the product.
We need to keep learning, welearning.
We also get help from thepeople and they'll say, and
Sudha has said, we have a groupof people right now share the
(35:51):
passion, share the mission onour side.
So I think we will try our hardto move forward as quick as
possible.
So I think because we knowpatients are waiting for the
drug.
Basically, patients are reallywaiting for the drug.
I think we know just in the USthere are more than 1600 people
(36:15):
die to cancer each day, everyday.
So one day is normal for us,but for a lot of people
suffering from late-date cancerwith cachexia, this is their
last day.
So I think we have no reason tonot try our best.
I think that I think that isthe purpose of my life.
(36:36):
I like to ask the question whywe came to the world.
Right, we have the purpose, thepurpose for myself.
I think, for Suzanne, that weare going to make a difference
for patients.
Carol Park (36:50):
You know I just that gives me goosebumps, brings me
to tears, because I agree withy'all.
I think it's your purpose.
I'm so grateful for the two ofyou being the amazing humans
that you are really pursuingyour purpose, your passion.
Again, the website is Akexia.
(37:11):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Akexis, Akexis.
Okay, so Suzanne, tell them.
Akexiscom Say it again.
Right A-K-E-X-I-S,akexis-t-c-o-m.
So thank y'all so much for yourtime, for your passion, for
(37:33):
your drive to help find thiscure so that people can survive
and live the lives that they'resupposed to live their purpose,
their passions.
And I know that, as you saidhere you're looking to, you
still need investment money,because it takes money to do all
(37:54):
the things that you're doing.
So, again, thank y'all so muchfor your time.
It has been my honor to havey'all as guests this morning.
Lingbing Zhang (38:04):
Thank you, thank you very much, thank you.
Thank you, carol, thank you,thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Thank you.
Suzanne Kennedy (38:07):
Thank you, carol, thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Thanks for tuning in to the Courage Unmasked podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
leave a review.
It really helps us grow.
Follow us on social media forupdates and a look at what's
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supporting this journey.
Until next time, keep leadingwith courage.
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Courage
Unmasked podcast.
As you know, we are justhearing people's stories.
We've heard amazing storiesabout just the courage of
vulnerability, and today we havetwo very special guests, and
it's a little bit different thansome of our other episodes have
(00:22):
been in that we have twoscientists who are researchers,
who have spent their careersstudying cancer, and they have
developed a drug specificallyfor stage four cancer patients
to help increase survival rates.
I mean just amazing, amazingresearch.
(00:44):
Two amazing people, lingbingZhang and Suzanne Kennedy, and
so I'm going to let them speakmore to the drug, their research
, how they came to this point indoing this, and so thank you to
you both for being here on thepodcast this morning.
Suzanne Kennedy (01:02):
Thank you Carol .
Lingbing Zhang (01:04):
Thank you for inviting us to be on your
podcast.
Carol Park (01:08):
Yes, I'm so honored that y'all are here, so tell us
a little bit about how you cameto be scientists, researchers
and studying cancer.
Suzanne Kennedy (01:20):
Yeah, so I'll start and yes, thank you so much
, carol.
It's an honor to be on yourpodcast today.
So for me, my journey as ascientist and a cancer scientist
started very young.
I always had an affinity forscience, but it was around I was
12 years old and I lost afriend a neighborhood friend to
(01:41):
leukemia and I just could notunderstand how this could happen
.
I could not understand how herown body could have deceived her
and I watched the familyturmoil going on and I watched
the family split apart over thatand it just really it hit me in
a deep way that it was nowgoing to be what I was going to
(02:03):
study for the rest of my lifeand I knew that I had to
understand this, what washappening, and I wanted to
understand cancer and leukemia.
So I really gravitated toeverything science and I knew
that I wanted to get a PhD.
I went to the VirginiaCommonwealth University for a
PhD in microbiology andimmunology and while I was there
(02:26):
, of course, I went right to thelab studying leukemia the same
leukemia that my friend diedfrom and so, working in that lab
trying to understand thisdisease and academics, I did a
couple more postdocs indifferent areas of protein
biochemistry and cancer drugs.
And then I made a pivot intothe biotech world and so in the
(02:51):
academic space this is usuallysomething that gets frowned upon
, but I knew that I wanted to bemore, have more of a team.
I needed to be part of a team.
So I went into biotech.
I moved from the East Coast tothe West Coast, worked at some
of the biggest biotechs outthere QIAGEN and VITRAGEN
(03:11):
developing my business skillsproduct marketing, global
marketing, business developmentand then R&D and I was running
R&D for a smaller company at thetime.
I became an expert in the humanmicrobiome, which is an area
that we hear a lot about, andthis human microbiome and your
gut and how your gut is reallycontrolling a lot of the
(03:34):
processes in our body.
So I made another pivot.
I left California and my highpaying job.
I went to Houston, texas, andwent back to the academic world
at Baylor College of Medicine,pursue my own questions and my
own research around pancreaticcancer and the gut microbiome,
(03:56):
and so I worked on a grant.
I got a grant to look at thisprocess.
I wanted to see if there wereways that we could measure
pancreatic cancer and detectpancreatic cancer sooner through
the stool, through themicrobiome.
And it was while I was atBaylor that I attended a talk by
an MD Anderson oncologist onpancreatic cancer, and he was
(04:20):
talking about cachexia.
Now cachexia is, for people whohave never heard that word
before, it's wasting disease.
It's a wasting syndrome.
Everyone has seen it.
If someone you love has cancer,you've seen them lose weight
and lose weight and lose weightuntil they cannot tolerate
(04:40):
anything, not even water.
That process of wasting, thatimmune disorder, that's what
we're talking about.
And the oncologist at MDAnderson, he said this is what
we need to fix, this is what weneed to solve for pancreatic
cancer patients to be able tosurvive.
And so that was for me a newchange, a new idea.
(05:05):
So after Baylor College ofMedicine, I went back into
pharma.
I worked for a biotech companydeveloping antisense DNA drugs.
I started a program for a newtarget that I thought would
target cachexia and pancreaticcancer, and then, after that, I
went to a startup developingnutritional foods for people
(05:26):
with pancreatic cancer.
So, still in the mindset ofcould you eat enough calories to
get ahead of wasting was theway I was thinking about it.
And so, at this startup,glycosbio out of Houston had a
novel technology that if yourpancreas didn't work, you could
still get your calories.
So I went there and wasdesigning nutrition for
(05:48):
pancreatic cancer patients.
But the fact is that I havelearned through all of the
research that you cannot eatenough calories to beat cachexia
, because cachexia is notanorexia, cachexia is the body
is destroying itself.
The body is in a irreversibleprogressive program,
(06:11):
self-destruction, and you cannoteat calories to get out of that
.
And so really that has changedmy thinking tremendously, and
really that's what brought whatbrings me here today to take all
the cancer research that I'velearned and to focus on this
particular problem.
And so that is how I met DrLingbing Zhang, and so, before
(06:33):
we go on, I will pass it over tomy partner and his incredible
career.
We'll talk a little about hisjourney, thank you.
Lingbing Zhang (06:42):
Thank you for.
Thank you, suzanne, amazingappearance.
So yeah, I can tell a littleabout my journey to study cancer
.
Actually, I also make a changeduring my career.
Like Suzanne, in the beginningI'm not studying cancer.
I majored in molecular biology.
I studied the genes, sunflowergenes, the function.
(07:03):
But someday I came across abook.
It's a book of immunology.
I read the book.
I found the immune system isreally amazing.
So we have so many differentcomponents in our immune system.
They work together in order tomaintain our health.
I found it very interesting.
I read many books I can find atthe time.
(07:26):
I really get intrigued by theimmunology, so I make a decision
in my entrance exam for a PLDprogram in China.
I spent several months.
(07:49):
I teach myself immunology.
I have no background inimmunology but I'm very good at
learning.
I can find all the materials,the books I can find.
It took me just several months.
I took the examination.
I passed the exam.
Actually, I was the number onestudent, the candidate, in the
(08:12):
whole medical school of theuniversity and then I got
accepted.
It was an amazing startactually.
I began my research on cancerimmunology at the lab in China.
Actually, the mentor, dr Zhuisa, renowned professor in
(08:33):
immunology in China.
I'm very lucky to start myjourney in his lab so I studied
the role of macrophage in cancerdevelopment.
I think it's a very goodresearch project and it goes
very smooth.
And I got my PhD degree withinthree years, a short time.
(08:56):
And then I got lucky again so Igot an offer from Stanford
School of Medicine.
So I got an offer from StanfordSchool of Medicine and then I
moved with my whole family, mywife and my son, who was 18
years old at that time.
We moved to Stanford and Icontinued my cat research and
(09:24):
the lab of Dr Jeffrey Norton,who is an internationally known
surgical oncologist, alsopioneer in the research of
catecholoxia.
Dr Norton began to publishpapers about catecholoxia in the
80s and 90s very early, muchearlier than the mainstream.
Actually, right now we have alot of scientists, researchers,
studying catecholoxia, but atthat time there were very few
(09:45):
people.
Dr norton is one of them.
Because dr norton is a surgicaloncologist, we can study the
most the highly clinicallyrelevant question about the
cataract in his lab.
So that's including the projecton catechol caccia.
That's my first time to knowcatecholoxia and begin my
(10:07):
research on catecholoxia, and wemade some very important
discovery, like we found, theroot cause of catecholoxia is
the immune problem, is theimmune disorder.
Basically, catecholoxia is animmune-driven syndrome, not like
most people think in the field.
(10:29):
A lot of people at the time webegan to study on catecholoxia.
Most people in the field thinkcatecholoxia is muscle weighting
.
But as you said, catecholoxiais not only a weighting issue,
it's not only a muscle problem.
You give nutrition, you givethe food.
You cannot reverse that right.
(10:52):
So we believe catechis inessence is an immune problem.
So if we believe that to treatcatechis we have to modulate,
treat the immune system, but inthe field we found no company do
that.
Most people still focus onmuscle weighting.
That's the reason.
That's the moment I think Ineed to do something.
(11:14):
Then I leave Stafford, start mycompany to develop treatment
for cataclysmic cachexia bymodulating the immune system.
That's the beginning of myjourney.
Also, right now I'm proud tosay we are developing the most
promising treatment for cardiaccachexia With Suzanne.
I think we will make the changefor the million patients who
(11:37):
need the treatment.
Yeah, maybe I stop here so wecan continue the conversation.
Carol Park (11:42):
Well, I think it's just amazing how the two of you
that were on your own separatejourneys, you know, driven by
different passions, that yourpaths merged and here the two of
you are today developing thisdrug to help this, really
(12:04):
cachexia, which, Suzanne, I canappreciate.
I am a licensed professionalcounselor but I'm also a
registered dietitian and socertainly in my studies of
dietitian, worked on some of theoncology units and we would
have said, cachexia, we have toget them more calories.
You know that that's the answer, but with the continued
(12:26):
research that y'all have doneand the understanding that it's
an immune system problem andcalories aren't going to fix it,
that you need medication, adrug that's going to help to
reverse this, so that people canhave the chance to survive, so
that the treatments can work andthey can live, Because
(12:47):
sometimes, as we know, it's notthe cancer that becomes the
thing that becomes terminal,Sometimes it's that the body
can't survive the treatments orthat the body goes into other
conditions and it can't surviveto be able to get more treatment
.
So I know that your drug thatyou've been developing and,
(13:09):
Suzanne, I just have to say whata bittersweet story.
You know the sweet of you doingthe research and and meeting up
with Ling Bing and y'allcontinuing this, but the bitter
of your friend at 12 years olddying from leukemia Like what a
bittersweet.
And again, the fallout for thefamily of the death of a child
(13:31):
is just so profound.
So again, I think y'all havedone a good job to describe
cachexia and that it's more thanmuscle wasting.
It's not a matter of gettingmore calories into the patient.
It's an immune disorder.
That you've been.
Is there anything else that, aslisteners, we might need to
(13:53):
understand about cachexia thaty'all haven't already touched on
?
Suzanne Kennedy (13:58):
Yeah, there are a couple of additional
information I mean I thinkpeople would be interested to
know.
One is that 80% of all cancerpatients are going to have
cachexia when they get to stagefour 80%.
There's nothing when you're inthis stage.
(14:25):
There's nothing that thephysician has to offer you, and
this is one of the things thatmotivates us.
30% of cancer patients will diefrom cachexia and not their
cancer and research that waspublished from Data Pharma
Cancer Center last year.
Nearly all pancreatic cancerpatients have had capixia for a
year when they're diagnosed.
So here are people that arealready in this irreversible
(14:50):
progressive wasting syndrome atthe start of their treatment,
and what this means to us isthat this condition needs to be
treated at the beginning.
So once you're diagnosed withpancreatic cancer, once your
patient has experienced 5% ormore weight loss and they have
(15:11):
cancer, that is when they needto address cachexia and start
working on the reversal.
It's been left to the end, tohospice.
When a person's in hospice now,you're trying to give them high
protein nutrition drinks.
That's not the time, that's notgoing to alleviate pain, it's
not going to extend life, butyet that is where cachexia
(15:33):
treatment has always remained.
So what we're here to say isthat if we can treat patients in
the beginning, when it's anearly stage of cachexia, we can
reverse this process.
We can give people the timethat they need, the strength
that they need to make itthrough the treatment, make it
through to the end, and maybe wehave excellent treatments for
(15:56):
pancreatic cancer right now, butwe don't have the treatment for
cachexia.
If you have cachexia, noanti-tumor treatment can work
because the body's trying todestroy itself.
So we can really trulyrevolutionize cancer research by
solving this problem.
And now we can look at theefficacy of the drugs.
(16:16):
The anti-tumor drugs that areout there could be working even
far better than they do once wesolve this problem.
And so that's why we're sofocused on solving cachexia as
an immune disorder, because itopens the door for survival.
Carol Park (16:34):
This makes so much sense to me.
So I just have to ask a sidequestion, if you will of I know
y'all have focused morepancreatic cancer.
We know that that typically isa terminal diagnosis and I know
we've talked in.
This is the hope of y'all'sresearch is that it doesn't have
(16:56):
to be terminal and that it'snot all just about the
pancreatic cancer.
It's about this other syndromegoing on, this cachexia that is
wasting the body so that youcan't treat the cancer.
Does this also happen withother cancers, not just
pancreatic?
I mean, cachexia is not justabout pancreatic cancer, is that
(17:20):
right?
Suzanne Kennedy (17:21):
Absolutely so.
The GI cancers have the highestrates of catexia, the fastest
killing cancers ovarian liver,esophageal, colorectal all of
these patients will be at highrisk for catexia Cancers like
breast cancer, prostate cancer.
You don't see cateaxia as oftenunless the person is in stage
(17:45):
four.
Once the person is got a veryhigh tumor burden and they're in
stage four now, the risk goesway up.
So that's why 80 of allpatients will have cataxia when
they get to an advanced stage.
But these certain cancers thatare GI-related are accelerating.
(18:06):
They're accelerated cachexiaand I think, Dr Zhang, do you
have something to add to that?
Lingbing Zhang (18:12):
Yeah, I think Suzanne has done a very good job
to explain cachexia.
I think cachexia the bodyweight loss actually is only the
manifestation of the bigproblem, the immune disorder.
I think that's why I thinkSudam made a good point.
When you begin the treatmentearly, I also suggest the
(18:32):
patient pay attention to yourbody weight Because if you have
began to have catechisia, thatsuggests that you have immune
disorder underlying.
The immune disorder not onlycauses cachexia, it also causes
other damage to your body, toyour organ damage.
It also causes your.
Basically, when you have animmune disorder you are about to
lose response to cancertreatment.
(18:54):
So this is a very big issue.
By reworking cachexia we arenot only to improve the quality
of life but also maintainpatient response to the
anti-tumor treatment.
Then they can maintainlong-term remission.
The reason why we start frompancreatic cancer from the
beginning is the pancreaticcancer patient has a high
(19:17):
occurrence of catechol cacacea.
Actually, that's the reason whywe cannot improve the survival
of the paracancer for decades.
We have a decade effort tostudy paracetamol cancer but
still the five-year survivalrate is still very low compared
to other cancers.
So cataract cancer happened notonly in paracetamol cancer.
(19:41):
Actually, pancreatic cancer canhappen in almost all types of
cancer.
Just some cancers it happenedwith higher occurrence, some
kind of a low occurrence.
But most lethal cancers likepancreatic cancer, lung cancer,
colon, regative cancer, happento have the high risk of
cachexia.
I think that's the reason webelieve catechic cachexia is a
(20:04):
big issue for the care-relatedcancer.
If we can reverse cachexia wewill change how we treat lacy
cancer.
Many patients can survive andget the treatment for the tumor
to pursue the long-termremission or even the cure.
So I think that's why webelieve we are working on
something huge.
(20:24):
That huge can really change thecare.
So I know that the talent ishuge, but we know the impact
will be huge.
Carol Park (20:33):
You know, I have to give a little side story here
because it's a little close tohome, to be quite honest.
A little close to home, to bequite honest.
My son, right before his 31stbirthday, was actually diagnosed
with stage 3C colon cancer andhe actually, I'm listening to
(20:54):
y'all and thinking, oh, he wasin the hospital because of
significant and he was not a, hewas a small man to start with.
He's alive, he's doing well letme just preface this but he was
put in the hospital because ofso much weight loss and his body
was just wasting away and theyput in the chart, they put it as
(21:17):
failure to thrive.
But I'm listening to y'allthinking, I think this is what
he had, as somehow he did, hisbody worked enough to pull him
out of that.
He did get the treatment thathe needed.
But I'm listening to y'all andthinking, oh my gosh, I think it
was this, and you know, thedrug that y'all are maybe could
(21:40):
have prevented some of itbecause he was suffering.
It was really hard to watch asa mom, as you can imagine, and
so I'm listening to this andjust thinking, oh, so much hope.
And again, maybe because of hisyounger age, his body was able
to reverse and he was able tocome out of it.
But I can just imagine that somany people as I listen to y'all
(22:05):
don't and so the hope and allof this is just amazing.
So wow, so okay, I know too.
Sorry, a little segue there but,I'm listening to you just
thinking, whoa, this is sopowerful.
And I hear and I know that bothof you are so incredibly
(22:26):
passionate about this and thatyou care about human life so
much, and you've literally spentyour lives studying this and
coming to this place whereyou're developing this, this
drug.
So you know, let me go back toLingbing.
Like Lingbing, after, like,your 20 years at Stanford, I
(22:50):
mean, this is like the pinnacleof a career.
Right, You're 20 years atStanford, but you made a
decision to leave there becauseof your passion, decision to
leave there because of yourpassion.
What gave you the courage andwe're talking about the courage
of vulnerability, thevulnerability, the uncertainty,
(23:11):
the risk, the emotions to stepout of a very stable we know the
direction of this career topursue really a startup company
and develop this drug andeverything that goes with that,
not just the research, butgetting funding, putting it out
there, continuing to validatethat.
(23:32):
It's like.
How did you?
What gave you the courage totake the leap?
Lingbing Zhang (23:37):
Yes, thank you for the question, but first I
want to say I'm sorry to hearabout your son.
Yes, thank you for the question, but first I want to say I'm
sorry to hear about your son.
I think I'm also happy to knowhe got out of the cachexia and
recovered.
I think the good news we knowcachexia is very lethal, it's a
deadly syndrome, but the goodnews is it's reversible, like
your son, we believe, because Ithink I want to say to patients
(24:02):
who are suffering from cachexiaright now, I will tell you
cachexia, although it is severe,but it is reversible If we
treat the.
You know there are somepatients they can recover from
cachexia by treating their tumor.
Usually, if their tumor isbound to the treatment, they
will recover from cachexia.
For patients who cannot recoverfrom cachexia automatically,
(24:23):
the treatment they will recoverfrom cachexia.
For patients who cannot recovercachexia automatically without
treatment, because we have a lotof patients at this stage their
tumor began to lose response totreatment For that group of
patients we still have anapproach method to help them to
reverse cachexia.
I think I hope patients can.
Even we have mentioned a lot ofthe deadly syndrome, how deadly
(24:44):
cachexia is, but we hopepatients can keep the hope right
Because the treatment we havedeveloped the treatment for you.
And then I will go to answeryour question how I started my?
Because I studied cancer for along time, cancer for a long
(25:08):
time, so most time I my majorfocus.
I studied cancer cachexia formore than 10 years for cancer
more than 20 years.
The major finding in my careeris that the immune disorder
driven cachexia.
But at that time I found people, companies that developed
treatment for cachexia by theblotting muscle weighting.
I follow the field.
I see I don't believe that canwork but I follow.
(25:29):
And then in about 2015 or 2016,there are two companies.
They develop cachexia.
They have program.
They failed in clinical trial.
At that time I know itbasically confirmed my condition
because based on my research, Ibelieve catechol cacase can
(25:49):
only be reversed by treating theimmune disorder.
By treating the muscle, bytreating the appetite.
You cannot really reversecatechol cacase.
Maybe you can have some effecton the symptoms, you can help a
patient gain some body weight,but the real problem in the
immediate soldier is still there.
So that's my belief.
(26:10):
So I think I know it takes a lotof courage to start a company.
For me, as a scientistbackground.
It's a totally different life.
To start a company, you need toraise money, you need to talk
with investors.
You need actually I'm not surethe audience know the process to
(26:31):
develop a drug.
To develop a drug, it takes alot of work.
You need to develop thecompound drug Also.
You need to run a thought study.
You need to have the CMC, themanufacturer, the regulatory,
the patents.
There are lots of aspects ofknowledge I don't have actually,
(26:52):
but I have to do that.
The reason is simple.
At that time, I believe, if Idon't do that, nobody maybe I
shouldn't say this this seemstoo ego, I guess but if I don't
do that, I think we cannotdevelop, we will never develop
treatment for catecholamide.
It takes a big courage to makethe change in my life, but the
(27:15):
real reason behind that issimple, just like this.
So I still today, today I havemore confidence than before.
I know we have the program.
Right now it's ready forclinical trial.
We have the various potentanimal data.
We also finished, recentlyfinished, a proof of concept
(27:35):
trial and the C-data cyanide.
So the data is very strong,just consistent with our
observation in animal studies.
But at that time, that's eightyears ago, I don't have so
strong data, so it takes courage, but I just think I have to do
that.
I think you know, I knowmillions of patients are
(27:56):
suffering from this.
If I have a solution, I think Ihave obligation to do that.
So I'm happy.
Actually, today I make thedecision.
At that time I'm confident thanany time before.
I think we will really make thebreakthrough for cataclysmic
cachexia.
Especially with Suzanne joiningme as the co-founder right now
(28:16):
I can feel more confident thanbefore.
So I think At that time it'svulnerable, it takes courage,
but today I'm proud I made thedecision.
Carol Park (28:29):
Yes, you really aligned with your value and your
passion.
And I think when we do, it'slike we have integrity.
And I mean that not of like oh,I tell the truth.
I mean our insides match ourout, like we have this passion
and this vision and we pursue itand that just gives us that
(28:51):
sense of wholeness.
And, like you said, I wouldhave regrets if I didn't have
the courage to make that leap,because I know this is going to
make a difference in so manypeople's lives here.
And moving forward and y'allboth have mentioned that it's
like okay, you're scientists,you're researchers.
(29:12):
This is kind of how your lives,your careers have gone and now
you have this drug and now youhave to also be business people,
which is probably alsovulnerable.
Right, Like okay, now we haveto have a business so that when
this medication gets all theapprovals it gets, you know,
(29:36):
then we can put it out on themarket.
And that takes a business, ittakes a plan, it takes funding
and money to continue to do this, and that's vulnerable too.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour company, your business that
you founded, and kind of what'sthe process?
Suzanne Kennedy (29:58):
Okay, well, I'll, I'll start with this one.
So, yes, so a Texas is whatwe've called our company,
because we want people to bewithout the kexia or in a Texas.
And so our company right nowwell, our focus right now is
fundraising.
We have, as Lingbing has toldyou, that he did a tremendous
(30:21):
amount of work, with somepre-seed funding, to get this
drug manufactured, to generateall of the safety data, to move
ahead.
So that's where we're reallyfocusing right now as a company
is on our fundraising, and mybackground in business that I
gathered and then working in twostartups, really gave me some
(30:44):
of the know-how to help us getstarted and help us start
working with looking forinvestors.
And then we brought in a team.
We've brought in experts tohelp us.
We recognize there are thingsthat we don't have expertise in
but that we need, and so we'refinding just the most incredible
human beings coming to us,around us, supporting us,
(31:08):
different advisors that all seethis mission as important and
are trying to help bring thismedication to people.
So for Apexia, for our company,we're starting off with Apexia.
We want to help.
We're focused on the pancreatic, colorectal and lung cancer
patients.
(31:28):
Our lead investigator, ourprincipal investigator, is Dr
Andrew Hendefar fromCedars-Sinai, los Angeles.
He's a huge champion for thisprogram and for us.
He ran a proof of conceptclinical trial on a version of
the drug to help us have evenmore data to show on the
(31:50):
clinical level that we will besuccessful.
We also have Dr Philip Bonomifrom Rush University, one of the
most renowned cancer scientistsin lung cancer, as part of our
team working closely with us.
So we have some amazing peoplesupporting this mission and
supporting Akexis.
Yeah, and I think did I answerthat question?
(32:11):
Yes, you answered it.
Carol Park (32:13):
Yes, and I just think I was thinking y'all are
the dynamic duo, but I hear thatyou're just bringing even more
people experts in their fields,like I can really see this just
moving forward, as y'all justhave so much passion around this
.
Obviously there are setbacksthat can happen in, you know,
(32:38):
startups and developments ofdrugs and all what keeps you
going, what keeps y'all goingwith this going with this.
Lingbing Zhang (32:48):
Well, I think, as Soudar introduced the
CACACCIS, I would like to sayyou know, compared with you know
, after Soudan joined me, weformed the CACACCIS, the company
.
I think we have the, as Soudarsaid, we have a group of amazing
people.
I suggest the audience haveinterest can visit our website,
(33:12):
kexiecom, A-K-E-X-I-Ecom.
We have the best experts in thefield, kind of Kexie, who are
supporting us.
We have the programming readyfor clinical trial.
We finished all the preclinicwork.
We have the strongest data.
We have the approved concept ofclinical trial.
I think we are moving forwardFrom now.
(33:41):
We are moving forward veryquickly.
Before we formed CACAXIA, I feellike I'm working alone in the
past several years.
The process to make a realinnovation is a lonely,
challenging process.
Right, it's even morechallenging if you're trying to
find a solution for a problem.
Nobody has a solution, nosuccessful experience.
You cannot follow all theprograms before us on how to
(34:03):
connect the field.
That's the challenge.
Healed, you can imagine thechallenge.
So I think, with CACaxiaalready formed, we are moving
forward quickly.
But, as you said, we still havesome challenges.
I think the major challengeright now, I guess, is that
cacaxia, although doctors knowit's very important.
(34:25):
It's very common but stillthere are not a lot of people
know that it's better forinventors.
Sometimes we need educatinginventors to let them know the
significant unmet medical need,the huge unmet medical need.
But because no program, no drugapproved in US Patients
(34:47):
audience may know, althoughcacagasy is the big issue in
late-stage care, there are noone FDA-approved drug, Basically
no drug right now.
Doctor know the issue, Patientssuffer from that, from the
syndrome, but we have nosolutions.
That's the situation right now.
I think the good thing is thatwe have the top experts like Dr
(35:08):
Bonomi, Dr Henifang.
We have the strong data.
We have the programs ready.
We are slowly convincing someinvestors supporting us.
I think it's getting better butstill challenging there, like
any biotech company.
Right, you need For myself andSuzanne.
Another challenge is we need tokeep learning, Because the
(35:31):
knowledge we have before wealways need to learn new
knowledge.
We are scientists in backgroundFor the building, the product.
We need to keep learning, welearning.
We also get help from thepeople and they'll say, and
Sudha has said, we have a groupof people right now share the
(35:51):
passion, share the mission onour side.
So I think we will try our hardto move forward as quick as
possible.
So I think because we knowpatients are waiting for the
drug.
Basically, patients are reallywaiting for the drug.
I think we know just in the USthere are more than 1600 people
(36:15):
die to cancer each day, everyday.
So one day is normal for us,but for a lot of people
suffering from late-date cancerwith cachexia, this is their
last day.
So I think we have no reason tonot try our best.
I think that I think that isthe purpose of my life.
(36:36):
I like to ask the question whywe came to the world.
Right, we have the purpose, thepurpose for myself.
I think, for Suzanne, that weare going to make a difference
for patients.
Carol Park (36:50):
You know I just that gives me goosebumps, brings me
to tears, because I agree withy'all.
I think it's your purpose.
I'm so grateful for the two ofyou being the amazing humans
that you are really pursuingyour purpose, your passion.
Again, the website is Akexia.
(37:11):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Akexis, Akexis.
Okay, so Suzanne, tell them.
Akexiscom Say it again.
Right A-K-E-X-I-S,akexis-t-c-o-m.
So thank y'all so much for yourtime, for your passion, for
(37:33):
your drive to help find thiscure so that people can survive
and live the lives that they'resupposed to live their purpose,
their passions.
And I know that, as you saidhere you're looking to, you
still need investment money,because it takes money to do all
(37:54):
the things that you're doing.
So, again, thank y'all so muchfor your time.
It has been my honor to havey'all as guests this morning.
Lingbing Zhang (38:04):
Thank you, thank you very much, thank you.
Thank you, carol, thank you,thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Thank you.
Suzanne Kennedy (38:07):
Thank you, carol, thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Thanks for tuning in to the Courage Unmasked podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
leave a review.
It really helps us grow.
Follow us on social media forupdates and a look at what's
coming next, and a big thank youto our sponsor, comixio, for
supporting this journey.
Until next time, keep leadingwith courage.
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