May 4, 2025 • 34 mins
Erron Kinney's remarkable journey from seven-year NFL player to fire chief reveals powerful parallels between two of America's most demanding professions. Beyond the obvious physical challenges, both careers require extraordinary emotional resilience and the courage to be vulnerable in high-stakes environments.
"The pressure you face in NFL is high and it's about entertainment and scoring touchdowns, where my job now, the public is truly depending on me for their health and well-being and their life safety," Erron explains, drawing a clear distinction between the different kinds of pressure he's navigated. Yet he identifies the critical importance of team dynamics in both worlds: "The camaraderie in a fire department locker room... working towards a common goal against a common opponent" creates bonds that sustain people through their most challenging moments.
What makes this conversation truly exceptional is Erron's candid exploration of vulnerability in traditionally "tough" environments. He shares a pivotal moment as an NFL rookie when, after being harshly criticized by a coach, star running back Eddie George offered simple encouragement that transformed his confidence. This experience taught him lessons about leadership and emotional support that he carries into his role as fire chief today, where he strives to create psychological safety for first responders dealing with trauma.
Erron's post-NFL transition required developing new emotional processing skills when he no longer had the physical outlet of the game. "It wasn't easy to make that transition to go into therapy once a week... but it's work that's worth investing the time and energy because the fruit of that is you being healthier and whole." His powerful admission that "it takes more courage to be vulnerable than to stuff and not open up" challenges conventional notions of strength and offers listeners a transformative perspective on authentic courage.
Whether you're navigating high-pressure work environments, leading teams through challenging circumstances, or simply seeking to understand the connection between vulnerability and strength, this conversation offers invaluable insights about what it means to show up with courage when the stakes are highest. Subscribe now and join us for more inspiring stories of courage unmasked.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carol Park (00:02):
Hi everyone and welcome to the Courage Unmasked
podcast.
I'm Carol Park, your host, and,as we have been doing, we're
hearing stories of people'scourage, where they walk in when
there's no guarantees.
There's uncertainty, risk andemotional exposure.
And our guest today, ErinKinney, definitely knows about
(00:26):
walking into uncertainty, riskand emotional exposure.
So Aaron played in the NFL forseven years and then is
currently a fire chief and so,after his NFL career, decided to
go into to be a first responderand a firefighter.
So, Aaron, welcome to thepodcast today.
Erron Kinney (00:49):
Thank you for having me.
I'm honored to be here.
Carol Park (00:52):
Well, we are so honored to have you.
So, yes, a career in the NFLand then going into firefighting
first responding.
Both of these definitely lotsof courage, lots of
vulnerability.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe similarities, the
differences, because these areboth like, oh, high pressure
(01:15):
environments, right?
Erron Kinney (01:17):
Yes, both are high pressure environments but
(01:41):
obviously you know the pressureyou face in NFL is high and it's
more about entertainment andscoring touchdowns, where my job
now you know the public istruly depending on me for their
health and well-being and theirlife safety.
So, both high pressureenvironments, one, in my opinion
, just has significantly higherstakes, yes, lives at stake,
right?
Carol Park (01:50):
Yes, although I guess, as we've seen in the NFL
especially recently, there'sdangers in the NFL.
That's part of the highpressure too, right.
Erron Kinney (02:02):
There is no question, there's definitely,
you know.
You know it used to be kind ofcliche that you would hear
people say you know, I'm puttingmy life on the line.
But you know, the reality isyou kind of are, because if you
go into the NFL, you go intothat high impact, violent
collision environment and youaren't prepared and you haven't
(02:25):
prepared your body right, youare at risk of losing your life.
And that's the truth.
And even when you have done allthe training and done all the
work and done all thepreparation, there's still a
chance.
You know, we've seen that.
You know, like you said, acouple of times in the NFL where
we've had, you know, players,you know get hit just the right
(02:47):
way or or experience a cardiacissue or or something like that,
where, yeah, you, youlegitimately could be putting
your life on.
Carol Park (02:55):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's.
It's one is I.
I am a football fan and havesometimes struggled with the,
especially.
I know we're talking aboutDeMar Hamlin and his his just
potentially life ending play.
I'm so grateful that he's well,he's fine, but yes, I mean, it
(03:20):
is the high pressure, and so inthis case too, it's, like you
said, the difference today, whenyou put your life on the line,
it's also to help potentiallysave other people's lives as
you're running into the dangerand and all.
So yeah, so what the transition?
(03:42):
What?
What made you decide to go fromthe NFL into firefighting and
first responding?
Erron Kinney (03:49):
You know what it was.
I don't know if it was really atransition as much as just a
simple.
You know, this is what I waspassionate about and there has
been a calling on my life to doit since I was very young.
So you know, I don't.
In some ways it wasn't atransition and in other ways it
was, and I think you know thelast question, when you talked
about similarities you know, oneof the big similarities that
(04:12):
has really helped me in a lot ofways is the camaraderie in a
team environment.
You know the football lockerroom, nfl locker room and a fire
department locker room.
You know, from the standpointof the team and lock in arms
with your brothers and sistersbeside you and, depending on you
know the man or woman next toyou, the camaraderie you are
(04:36):
working towards a common goal,working towards a common goal
against a common foe, if youwill, or common enemy or a
common opponent.
You know those parallels havebeen very helpful for me in that
transition, because that's oneof the areas I feel like you
know you miss.
You know, because there is asignificant emotional and
(04:58):
psychological investment to be aprofessional football player as
well, and there certainly isone to be a professional
firefighter.
You know, and when I sayprofessional I don't necessarily
mean that your career, becausethere's a lot of volunteer
professional firefighters outthere, but anytime you're
professional, you know, in thatfield or in the NFL, like there
(05:19):
is, there is a lot ofcamaraderie, commonality and
working towards you, workingtowards that goal of beating
your opponent.
The opponents are different.
Obviously, in football you'regoing against other people who
are trying to pose their willagainst you and my opponent now
is fire or illnesses or diseaseor pandemics.
(05:41):
We're fighting on the frontlines of those and you know the
camaraderie and the kind ofbrotherhood and family has been
something that's been important.
It allowed me to to make itthrough those tough times in NFL
.
When you face adversity, youknow having those, those
brothers alongside me that arefighting the same fight and you
(06:03):
know facing similar adversity orI've been through the same type
of adversity.
You know those relationshipsand those you know having those
people to lock arms with thatare with you, are really
important to being able tosurvive.
You know, to being able to makeit through those tough times
because both environments, likeyou said, very high stakes, very
(06:25):
high pressure and it can belike being in a pressure cooker.
You know and you need that.
You need a, you need a place,or you need someone or a team
around you that you can, youknow you can vent to and that
will support you.
And you know, and it's sometimesthey may have to hold you
accountable but at the end ofthe day, really what it all
(06:49):
boils down to is you need peoplethat love you in your corner
and that are willing to, youknow, work with you, fight with
you, hold you accountable whenit's needed and, you know, also
be a shoulder to cry on or aplace to vent when you, when you
have a rough you know a roughday or a rough call, or you know
you make a mistake and it leadsto a play that hurts the team.
(07:11):
Like.
You need that Because, while itis high stakes and you know, of
course, we're pursuing success,you know in all of those
environments there's variablesyou can't control.
Carol Park (07:22):
Absolutely Wow, so well put.
You know, I do refer a lot toBrene Brown's work, because she
did a lot of research onvulnerability, courage, and she
talks about when we go intoarena, where we're going to show
up and be seen, where there areno guarantees, that it's super
important.
(07:43):
She calls it the seat ofempathy, but these are the
people who are going to be therejust in the ways that you
absolutely described it, becauseshe also talks about when we go
into these arenas.
Shame is showing up, scarcity,the critics are showing up, I'm
sure you, especially the NFLeveryone's a critic, everybody's
(08:04):
.
I could coach the team.
I could play better when theynever even stepped on the field,
you know.
So it's like, yes, all of thoseare showing up and you have to
have those people, your team,the people who love you, no
matter what that are going to bethere for you, because in the
arenas, as we call them, whereyou're showing up, you're going
(08:27):
to fail at times.
We're human beings, right?
So, yes, so important, and Ican see in both having that team
that support is just sonecessary, especially when you
fall down and have to get backup you know so yeah, yeah.
(08:48):
Can you think of a specific timeor incident or moment in either
the NFL or in your career as afirefighter and now a fire chief
where you really did have that?
You know the moment of whereyou had to be courageous in the
vulnerability.
(09:08):
Any incidents that come standout.
Erron Kinney (09:13):
There's a couple you know, nfl wise.
You know I remember and thiswas a fairly profound moment for
me where you know, we had had,or I had had, a rough practice
and our offensive coordinatorwas was not happy with me.
(09:34):
Needless to say and this wasearly in my career, I think, I
think I was a rookie, Idefinitely towards, you know, I
had grown in the starting lineupand I started getting a lot
more playing time.
And you know this particularpractice, you know we were
(09:57):
working on a specific play and,for whatever reason, I just
wasn't getting it right.
You know, just one of thosedays and my officer coordinator
came in the weight room rightour post-practice workout and
just completely ripped me a newone.
And you know it was a toughexperience and I, you know, I
(10:20):
tried to, you know you try to.
In the face of that, you know,as an NFL player and being a
rookie, I'm like I got to staytough.
I got to, you know, show noemotion whatsoever, I got to
just be, you know, hard andtough.
And you know, in that moment Itried to stay, you know, hard
and tough.
But what I recognized and whathappened to me after that is one
(10:47):
of the star players at thistime.
It was eddie george, you know,one of the best, probably one of
the best running backs in thehistory of, you know, titans
oilers.
You know, uh in in just aquality person, um, and it meant
a lot to me that he came up tome as a rookie and said, hey,
(11:08):
and I believe his exact wordswere hey, rook, hey, hang in
there, man, you're going to beone of the good ones.
You know we're dependent on youand you know we're with you.
We still got your back kind ofthing and positive word from,
arguably at that time, the bestplayer on the team, the face of
(11:29):
the franchise, I mean everything.
And uh, I remember, you know,after that, just feeling
encouraged in it.
It allowed me to to maintain alevel of confidence that I
needed to go out and compete anddo what I needed to do.
Where, in the moment when I wasgetting ripped a new one and
after the officer coordinatorhad left, you know I was, I was
(11:53):
struggling, I really was.
And um, you know I, I love the,the fact that that he knew and
he saw it and even though Itried to be stoic and tough, you
know, um, he knew, he knewexactly what I needed when I
needed it and he said it.
And you know, I think thatexperience, you know, for me it
(12:17):
was something that I, you know,I still remember, but also that
I remembered when I became anelder statesman, or quote
unquote, one of the star playerson the team and it earned my
keep.
I remembered that because youknow you're going to have,
you're going to have youngplayers that are going to make
mistakes and sometimes coachesare going to rip them a new one
(12:38):
and they need to be, they needthat encouragement, they need to
know it's okay to be vulnerableor to be man that that sucked.
Hey, to be vulnerable, or to beman that sucked, like you know
and you know, to be able to goup to a fellow player or
teammate and let them know hey,man, I've been there, you know,
I've been through it, and if youneed to talk about it, I'm here
(13:00):
.
If you want some help out onthe field, I'm here, whatever
that may be.
So you know I took that, youknow, that encouragement and his
intervening in that in thatparticular instance, and I held
on to it.
And you know that's oneinstance in NFL, for sure.
There, there, there were others.
(13:20):
There were others for me, youknow, as a player, where you
know I made mistakes and wascalled out for them, and again
it was my teammates and you knowmy wife who were, you know, our
team chaplain, people that werevery supportive.
(13:43):
But when those times got rough,I could be, I could let my guard
down right, I had a place to tokind of put that stuff, you
know, and you know, along withthe physicality of the game, you
know, I think you know, mypost-career transition that's
probably one of the biggestthings is I had to be more, if
you will, courageous and openabout being vulnerable, because
(14:07):
one of my healthier outlets fordealing with some of that was
the physicality of playing thegame, you know.
You know if I was frustrated ormad or pissed about something,
you know well, I got to waylaysomebody, you know.
I got to go take out myfrustration or it could be
(14:27):
sadness, it could be anything.
I could take that out.
I could turn it into physicalaggression and it'd be
appropriate.
And you know, when I retired Ino longer had that outlet.
You know it's not appropriatefor me to go, you know, put on
my helmet and shoulder pads and,you know, waylaid Joe Blow
walking on the sidewalk.
Carol Park (14:48):
That might not go well.
Erron Kinney (14:49):
Yes, no it wouldn't go well.
So you know that was a bigthing for me.
You know, post-career.
You know even in those momentswhere I was vulnerable, you know
it was within, within thelocker room setting.
You know you have players andfriends and bonds that that you
(15:10):
setting.
You know you have players andfriends and bonds that that you
that become like brothers to youand that you trust and that you
know you can be vulnerable with.
And there's some people youcan't be vulnerable with.
I mean, it's a, it's a truth,but that's you know.
I think it takes some wisdom toand just understanding who, who
really is in your corner, whocan you really trust or how much
you can trust people with andwhen you're doing.
You know I had Brad Hopkins whowas like a big brother to me.
(15:30):
He was an officer tackle thatyou know that helped me and that
was, you know, just like a bigbrother example who had been
there longer, who had been there.
Done that.
You know Eddie George pullingme aside, frank Wycheck, you
know God rest his soul.
Like was my mentor.
You know, eddie George pullingme aside.
Frank Wycheck, you know Godrest his soul.
Like was my mentor.
You know, as a tight end.
(15:51):
You know a guy that did it at ahigh level.
I learned a lot about how to bea pro and and what it meant, and
you know, you know, even evenfor him, you know, I think you
know he was helpful for me, kindof you, mason, michael Booker
(16:28):
these are guys that were, youknow, I was able to kind of lock
arms with and I could count onin my corner and that I could be
vulnerable with and we couldtalk about things.
You know, whether we werefrustrated with how we were
playing as a team or as how wewere playing as individuals, or
it could be life stuff, it couldbe, you know, problems at home,
(16:50):
it could be the kids, it could.
You know those were the peoplethat that I I had in my corner
during my NFL career.
Um, you know that that werejust instrumental in a, a, a
place where I could bevulnerable, and you know, let my
guard down, um, reggie Pleasantwas our team chaplain, was very
(17:11):
instrumental with that as well.
Uh, being a sounding board orbeing a place to you know, uh,
just share your feelings or oryour inner thoughts or when you
need to, when you, when you hada time where you need to be
vulnerable and let your guarddown a little bit.
It was, you know, those trustedpeople that you have in your
corner that that you know couldbe a shoulder to cry on.
(17:33):
But they could also hold youaccountable constructively and
be like, hey man, no man, yougot to make plays, you got to,
you got to step up and do whatyou need to do.
Or hey man, you're not gettingit done in the in the weight
room or you're not.
Whatever it is, you know they,they're willing to hold you
accountable too, um, and be truepartners that way.
Um, and I think you know, for meI did not realize the.
(17:58):
That's probably the biggesttransition for me from football
to firefighting is that you know, after playing for I count
eight.
I know my career, officiallyseven, but I count eight because
that last year I was physicallyunable to perform.
But I that you know that lockerroom environment where you're
(18:19):
that tight knit, you know thatlocker room environment where
you're that tight knit, you know, and doing having your life
kind of scheduled and regimentedfor you there was so much that
was already planned out.
You know, and you know I wasrubbing shoulders with these
individuals all day, every day.
I probably spent more time withthem than I did with my family,
you know, at that point.
(18:39):
So, um, I think, when you're inthat scenario, whether it be in
the firehouse or, you know, inthe NFL, like the places I've
been able to work and my jobsI've worked at in the fire
department, my relationships,you know, with uh, lieutenant
John Lepiccolo and and peoplelike that who, uh, lieutenant
(19:04):
John Lepiccolo and and peoplelike that who, when, um, you
know, uh, I had Lieutenant Hoodfor a long time as as my, as my
commanding officer that I workedunder, but having those people,
those kinds of people in thefirehouse, that, um, you know,
josh North, good friends, thatthese people became like family,
that Brentwood Fire family,that was where I worked, having
(19:27):
those people, where you buildthose kind of relationships and
and also just actually not kindof he flat out, was a mentor to
me, uh, in you know my approachto uh leadership in the fire
service, and I always recognizewith him how, in tune to the
(19:52):
personnel, he was, you know,right, wrong, or indifferent, or
whether this guy or that guyhad a issue with him or whatever
he always seemed to be doing,you know, or moving in a
direction of the right thing andwhat was best for the
department.
But he also could hold stufftight.
So if you needed to bevulnerable, you could be
vulnerable with him.
(20:12):
And I think having officerslike that, like you know, how
could John Lepiccolo having asenior guy in the firehouse with
me, like Josh North, you know,you know working with those kind
of guys, you know In my fireservice career, you know they
(20:36):
they were a trusting it was, itwas, it was that family
atmosphere, that kind of got youthrough some tough times.
And I think you know, for mealso is I had to let go of like
the macho facade and I had to, Ihad to get, I had to seek, you
know, I had to reach out and getsome therapy.
Man, like you know, um, and I Idid that, um, initially kind of
(20:58):
reluctantly and then, as I, asI was involved in pursue that
and saw the benefits, you know,and experienced the benefits of
that, I was like man, why wasn'tI doing this years ago?
Carol Park (21:15):
Yeah, you know you speak so much wisdom in your
words today I just think, likewith the team part and having
someone that's, you know, older,wiser, that has your back, that
sees you in that moment ofvulnerability where you're just
(21:35):
getting reamed in the weightroom, in the locker room, in
front of the team and you'relike the emotions.
I think people don't realizethat vulnerability, the
emotional exposure piece, feelsso vulnerable Like whoa, I've
been seen and oh, again in thesemacho like oh, I've got to be
(21:55):
strong, I've got to suck it down, but somebody to say, hey,
seize you, encourage you, whichI know you've brought into your
own leadership style.
As you said, it was havingthese mentors, if you will,
teaching you.
And then the element you'retalking about of trust, you know
, and what builds trust.
And you're right, we were notgoing to be vulnerable with
(22:18):
everybody.
We're going to be vulnerablewith everybody.
We're going to know where it'sthe safe environment, where it's
okay.
Because in that early withvulnerability, there can be
those shame gremlins that comein and say, no, don't do this,
don't do this.
So if we don't have some shameresilience around that, it's
even harder to show up and beseen.
(22:39):
So so much your leadership,starting as a rookie, but then
building with your team and thentransitioning, because today
you're a fire chief leading allsorts of people and groups, and
officers like you're at the top,and so this leadership so what
(23:02):
wisdom do you think as a firechief around vulnerability and
courage do you think isimportant for those who are
first responders or firefighters?
What do you think is theimportant message here?
Erron Kinney (23:16):
I think the important message is you know I
think it's a couple actually, Ithink as leaders of departments,
or a department head or leaderof the fire department, you want
to do everything you can tofoster an environment that is
safe and trusting and thatprovides your personnel with the
opportunity to be vulnerablewith someone.
(23:37):
It's not necessarily, and Ithink it's unrealistic to expect
that.
You know the chief is supposedto carry that weight on his own,
but as an environment and as aculture within your department,
you want there to be.
You know a way for yourpersonnel to be vulnerable, a
way for them, you know, to shareand to be able to express
(23:59):
themselves when they face thosetough calls or when they make a
mistake, or you know when lifeis just tough.
I mean it could be unrelated toyou know, the fire department,
but the reality is, you know, inour service we do have really a
second family.
We spend as much time togetheron shift or in the firehouse as
(24:21):
we do with our families.
So you have to have people inthe firehouse and create an
environment in the firehousethat allows for that and doesn't
frown upon that and thatencourages it.
You know, I think, like you hadalluded to before.
Sometimes you get this facadeor this macho tough.
You know you just got to grinand bear it kind of you know
(24:42):
approach and attitude and youknow I think that can be very
dangerous.
You know, because you can.
You know at some point that'sgot to, that's got to go
somewhere, it's got to come outsomehow.
You're so right.
Carol Park (24:55):
I always say it comes out sideways and backwards
and a lot of times it's notpretty and it really can be
dangerous.
And so, finding the place toopen up and have the safe places
and you did touch on theemotional part, even when you
were in the NFL and you had anoutlet on the field like, oh,
(25:16):
you could show some of thataggression and it was okay.
But then realizing, okay, I gotto figure out some of this so
that it doesn't come outsideways and backwards and yeah,
and then having the courage tomove into that place and explore
it a little bit.
It does take a lot of courage,especially in places where
(25:37):
againo supposed to have it alltogether.
Yes, you know nothing's wrong.
So, yeah, I hear you providingthat, or trying to work to
create that psychological safetyfor those who are in your
department, which is so huge.
Erron Kinney (25:54):
Yes, and you know it is critically important.
You know, I know for me.
You know I have an open doorpolicy.
I expect my subordinateofficers to also have an open
door policy and I can't you knowI can't micromanage them and
force them to do things they'renot comfortable with.
But you know my deputy, youknow who is one of my key people
(26:18):
, that that you know we're ableto bounce things off of each
other and work together and leanon each other.
You know we both have open doorpolicies and you know sometimes
our personnel, we have to beempathetic and we have to be
compassionate.
You know, and and beintentional about that, because
you know I don't, I don't wantthe only time my people talk to
(26:38):
me is when there's a problem,and also don't want them not to
talk to me when there's aproblem.
So you know I try to.
We both try to check up on our,our people.
You know, if somebody calls outsick or they have a family
issue, you know we check in.
We try to check in and I try tobe, as you know, as diplomatic
(26:59):
as possible or allow as muchleeway as possible If someone's
facing a family crisis or anemergency or something like that
, you know.
You know I try to allow theleeway and the flexibility for
them to.
You know, leave when they needto leave, take time off when
they need to take time off.
Obviously there's parameters Ihave to stay within, but I try
(27:20):
to put the individuals firstbecause, at the end of the day,
the success of this organizationand the performance of my
organization and how well weserve our community isn't
dependent just on me.
It's those people within myorganization, the ones I'm
responsible for, that reallymake this thing go and it really
(27:42):
make this thing work.
So it's important to me.
You know that they feel safeand that they want to be here at
work.
They want to be in acomfortable, caring environment.
You know where their needs aremet and some of their wants are
even provided for.
And I think that you know in my,in my life, you know the
(28:06):
successful organizations orsuccessful teams.
You know, even from an NFLpoint of view, the team and the
atmosphere kind of changes, youknow, cause the locker room
changes over.
But you know I can remember thebest teams that I was on were
very, very much so connected, intune with each other and you
could be vulnerable.
(28:26):
There was.
You know there was a sense of,of, of culture and trust, kind
of globally, you know, andthat's challenging to create.
You know, um, that is somethingthat I want to create within my
organization.
I think we have it in somelevels, but I want it to
permeate through all facets ofmy organization because I feel
(28:47):
like it is important for peopleto have a space where they can
be vulnerable.
You know, and there's timeswhere you are going to have to,
you know, step up and be toughand go out and do the tough
stuff, but there should be aplace for you to come back and
safely process that and talkabout that, you know, and you
don't have to be hard and gruffand tough, you can just be, you
(29:09):
know.
I think that's important and ittook me a while to really
embrace that fully.
You know, and I like the wayyou use you.
You use courage, um, because itdoes.
I think it really does takecourage.
It takes more courage to bevulnerable than to stuff and to
not open up Um, and I I thinkI've learned that over the years
(29:31):
, and sometimes it was the hardway, because I know, growing up
I was a stuffer Um, and you knowthat it was.
It was.
It wasn't easy to make thattransition to.
You know, go into therapy oncea week, you know, um, you know,
committing to it, beingconsistent with it, that took,
(29:52):
you know, the same amount ofenergy and effort and discipline
as doing the work to get on thefield and doing the work to
become a fire chief, like, butit's work that you know it's
worth investing the time andenergy because the fruit of that
is you being healthier andwhole as as a person and then
able to do more and and bringmore to the table for your
(30:15):
organization or your team.
So, um, you know, I think it'sreally important in you know,
and in both of these professionsthere's definitely that, you
know, facade of.
You know well, you know it'salmost inhuman if you really
think about it right.
Like you have to be so toughand hard that, like you expect
(30:37):
this, these horrendous incidentsyou go to to not affect you, or
you expect this.
You know something you workedat so hard for so long to be a
professional football player andyou you mess up a play or you
lose a game, like there's anemotional, humongous
disappointment and let downthere.
Um, and that leads me to you.
You asked about an experience Ihad.
(30:57):
I remember, um, we played the kKansas City Chiefs, the second
game of our rookie year and itwas really hot in Nashville.
We ended up winning the game inovertime.
I played a whole, whole lot ofplays because the number two
tight end on the depth chart hadgotten injured in the first
(31:17):
game and we played primarily twotight end sets.
So I was in the game a lot,played a lot of plays and I was
young so I still planned a tonof special teams and everything
else.
And I remember, after we wonthe game I just came in the
locker room and everybody was,you know, excited.
We won in overtime and the playbefore we scored I'd made a big
(31:38):
block to, you know, for EddieGeorge to get yards, for us to
be in position for field goal,and I just remember being a
total and complete wreck.
We won the game but I had beenso focused and so locked in and
so, like, just I was emotionallyand psychologically and
(32:00):
physically completely spent andI didn't know anything else to
do and I couldn't, I just cried.
Carol Park (32:06):
I sat in front of my locker and cried and you know
yeah, as you said it was part ofyour message before is you're
more whole, you're more human.
Just be like you could be you.
And and again, your point to tobeing vulnerable with the safe
(32:29):
people.
You know that people who commonhumanity, they get it there,
they're there.
And so, yeah, well, gosh, aaron, thank you so much for your
time today.
I mean everything that you'vesaid your courage just to be on,
to share your story, tocontinue to lead in the way that
you're leading, to allow peopleto feel safe, safe enough to be
(32:54):
vulnerable, having the courageto be vulnerable and you
providing that space.
So grateful, always, sograteful for you as a first
responder.
We know that you continuallyput yourself, your life out
there for others, which I can'tthink of a more courageous act
(33:14):
and a vulnerable act.
So again, thank you so much foryour time, all your words of
wisdom today.
Erron Kinney (33:21):
Yes, thank you for having me and I apologize for
the little buzzes in thebackground.
We got really busy here at thefirehouse for some reason with a
bunch of calls when I wastrying to do this podcast, so I
apologize.
Carol Park (33:34):
Oh, you're good.
I don't think we'll really hearthem, so it's all good.
And again, thank you so muchfor your service to all of us,
so thank you.
Erron Kinney (33:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Thanks for tuning in to the Courage Unmasked podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
leave a review.
It really helps us grow.
Follow us on social media forupdates and a look at what's
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supporting this journey.
Until next time, keep leadingwith courage.
Hi everyone and welcome to the Courage Unmasked
podcast.
I'm Carol Park, your host, and,as we have been doing, we're
hearing stories of people'scourage, where they walk in when
there's no guarantees.
There's uncertainty, risk andemotional exposure.
And our guest today, ErinKinney, definitely knows about
(00:26):
walking into uncertainty, riskand emotional exposure.
So Aaron played in the NFL forseven years and then is
currently a fire chief and so,after his NFL career, decided to
go into to be a first responderand a firefighter.
So, Aaron, welcome to thepodcast today.
Erron Kinney (00:49):
Thank you for having me.
I'm honored to be here.
Carol Park (00:52):
Well, we are so honored to have you.
So, yes, a career in the NFLand then going into firefighting
first responding.
Both of these definitely lotsof courage, lots of
vulnerability.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe similarities, the
differences, because these areboth like, oh, high pressure
(01:15):
environments, right?
Erron Kinney (01:17):
Yes, both are high pressure environments but
(01:41):
obviously you know the pressureyou face in NFL is high and it's
more about entertainment andscoring touchdowns, where my job
now you know the public istruly depending on me for their
health and well-being and theirlife safety.
So, both high pressureenvironments, one, in my opinion
, just has significantly higherstakes, yes, lives at stake,
right?
Carol Park (01:50):
Yes, although I guess, as we've seen in the NFL
especially recently, there'sdangers in the NFL.
That's part of the highpressure too, right.
Erron Kinney (02:02):
There is no question, there's definitely,
you know.
You know it used to be kind ofcliche that you would hear
people say you know, I'm puttingmy life on the line.
But you know, the reality isyou kind of are, because if you
go into the NFL, you go intothat high impact, violent
collision environment and youaren't prepared and you haven't
(02:25):
prepared your body right, youare at risk of losing your life.
And that's the truth.
And even when you have done allthe training and done all the
work and done all thepreparation, there's still a
chance.
You know, we've seen that.
You know, like you said, acouple of times in the NFL where
we've had, you know, players,you know get hit just the right
(02:47):
way or or experience a cardiacissue or or something like that,
where, yeah, you, youlegitimately could be putting
your life on.
Carol Park (02:55):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's.
It's one is I.
I am a football fan and havesometimes struggled with the,
especially.
I know we're talking aboutDeMar Hamlin and his his just
potentially life ending play.
I'm so grateful that he's well,he's fine, but yes, I mean, it
(03:20):
is the high pressure, and so inthis case too, it's, like you
said, the difference today, whenyou put your life on the line,
it's also to help potentiallysave other people's lives as
you're running into the dangerand and all.
So yeah, so what the transition?
(03:42):
What?
What made you decide to go fromthe NFL into firefighting and
first responding?
Erron Kinney (03:49):
You know what it was.
I don't know if it was really atransition as much as just a
simple.
You know, this is what I waspassionate about and there has
been a calling on my life to doit since I was very young.
So you know, I don't.
In some ways it wasn't atransition and in other ways it
was, and I think you know thelast question, when you talked
about similarities you know, oneof the big similarities that
(04:12):
has really helped me in a lot ofways is the camaraderie in a
team environment.
You know the football lockerroom, nfl locker room and a fire
department locker room.
You know, from the standpointof the team and lock in arms
with your brothers and sistersbeside you and, depending on you
know the man or woman next toyou, the camaraderie you are
(04:36):
working towards a common goal,working towards a common goal
against a common foe, if youwill, or common enemy or a
common opponent.
You know those parallels havebeen very helpful for me in that
transition, because that's oneof the areas I feel like you
know you miss.
You know, because there is asignificant emotional and
(04:58):
psychological investment to be aprofessional football player as
well, and there certainly isone to be a professional
firefighter.
You know, and when I sayprofessional I don't necessarily
mean that your career, becausethere's a lot of volunteer
professional firefighters outthere, but anytime you're
professional, you know, in thatfield or in the NFL, like there
(05:19):
is, there is a lot ofcamaraderie, commonality and
working towards you, workingtowards that goal of beating
your opponent.
The opponents are different.
Obviously, in football you'regoing against other people who
are trying to pose their willagainst you and my opponent now
is fire or illnesses or diseaseor pandemics.
(05:41):
We're fighting on the frontlines of those and you know the
camaraderie and the kind ofbrotherhood and family has been
something that's been important.
It allowed me to to make itthrough those tough times in NFL
.
When you face adversity, youknow having those, those
brothers alongside me that arefighting the same fight and you
(06:03):
know facing similar adversity orI've been through the same type
of adversity.
You know those relationshipsand those you know having those
people to lock arms with thatare with you, are really
important to being able tosurvive.
You know, to being able to makeit through those tough times
because both environments, likeyou said, very high stakes, very
(06:25):
high pressure and it can belike being in a pressure cooker.
You know and you need that.
You need a, you need a place,or you need someone or a team
around you that you can, youknow you can vent to and that
will support you.
And you know, and it's sometimesthey may have to hold you
accountable but at the end ofthe day, really what it all
(06:49):
boils down to is you need peoplethat love you in your corner
and that are willing to, youknow, work with you, fight with
you, hold you accountable whenit's needed and, you know, also
be a shoulder to cry on or aplace to vent when you, when you
have a rough you know a roughday or a rough call, or you know
you make a mistake and it leadsto a play that hurts the team.
(07:11):
Like.
You need that Because, while itis high stakes and you know, of
course, we're pursuing success,you know in all of those
environments there's variablesyou can't control.
Carol Park (07:22):
Absolutely Wow, so well put.
You know, I do refer a lot toBrene Brown's work, because she
did a lot of research onvulnerability, courage, and she
talks about when we go intoarena, where we're going to show
up and be seen, where there areno guarantees, that it's super
important.
(07:43):
She calls it the seat ofempathy, but these are the
people who are going to be therejust in the ways that you
absolutely described it, becauseshe also talks about when we go
into these arenas.
Shame is showing up, scarcity,the critics are showing up, I'm
sure you, especially the NFLeveryone's a critic, everybody's
(08:04):
.
I could coach the team.
I could play better when theynever even stepped on the field,
you know.
So it's like, yes, all of thoseare showing up and you have to
have those people, your team,the people who love you, no
matter what that are going to bethere for you, because in the
arenas, as we call them, whereyou're showing up, you're going
(08:27):
to fail at times.
We're human beings, right?
So, yes, so important, and Ican see in both having that team
that support is just sonecessary, especially when you
fall down and have to get backup you know so yeah, yeah.
(08:48):
Can you think of a specific timeor incident or moment in either
the NFL or in your career as afirefighter and now a fire chief
where you really did have that?
You know the moment of whereyou had to be courageous in the
vulnerability.
(09:08):
Any incidents that come standout.
Erron Kinney (09:13):
There's a couple you know, nfl wise.
You know I remember and thiswas a fairly profound moment for
me where you know, we had had,or I had had, a rough practice
and our offensive coordinatorwas was not happy with me.
(09:34):
Needless to say and this wasearly in my career, I think, I
think I was a rookie, Idefinitely towards, you know, I
had grown in the starting lineupand I started getting a lot
more playing time.
And you know this particularpractice, you know we were
(09:57):
working on a specific play and,for whatever reason, I just
wasn't getting it right.
You know, just one of thosedays and my officer coordinator
came in the weight room rightour post-practice workout and
just completely ripped me a newone.
And you know it was a toughexperience and I, you know, I
(10:20):
tried to, you know you try to.
In the face of that, you know,as an NFL player and being a
rookie, I'm like I got to staytough.
I got to, you know, show noemotion whatsoever, I got to
just be, you know, hard andtough.
And you know, in that moment Itried to stay, you know, hard
and tough.
But what I recognized and whathappened to me after that is one
(10:47):
of the star players at thistime.
It was eddie george, you know,one of the best, probably one of
the best running backs in thehistory of, you know, titans
oilers.
You know, uh in in just aquality person, um, and it meant
a lot to me that he came up tome as a rookie and said, hey,
(11:08):
and I believe his exact wordswere hey, rook, hey, hang in
there, man, you're going to beone of the good ones.
You know we're dependent on youand you know we're with you.
We still got your back kind ofthing and positive word from,
arguably at that time, the bestplayer on the team, the face of
(11:29):
the franchise, I mean everything.
And uh, I remember, you know,after that, just feeling
encouraged in it.
It allowed me to to maintain alevel of confidence that I
needed to go out and compete anddo what I needed to do.
Where, in the moment when I wasgetting ripped a new one and
after the officer coordinatorhad left, you know I was, I was
(11:53):
struggling, I really was.
And um, you know I, I love the,the fact that that he knew and
he saw it and even though Itried to be stoic and tough, you
know, um, he knew, he knewexactly what I needed when I
needed it and he said it.
And you know, I think thatexperience, you know, for me it
(12:17):
was something that I, you know,I still remember, but also that
I remembered when I became anelder statesman, or quote
unquote, one of the star playerson the team and it earned my
keep.
I remembered that because youknow you're going to have,
you're going to have youngplayers that are going to make
mistakes and sometimes coachesare going to rip them a new one
(12:38):
and they need to be, they needthat encouragement, they need to
know it's okay to be vulnerableor to be man that that sucked.
Hey, to be vulnerable, or to beman that sucked, like you know
and you know, to be able to goup to a fellow player or
teammate and let them know hey,man, I've been there, you know,
I've been through it, and if youneed to talk about it, I'm here
(13:00):
.
If you want some help out onthe field, I'm here, whatever
that may be.
So you know I took that, youknow, that encouragement and his
intervening in that in thatparticular instance, and I held
on to it.
And you know that's oneinstance in NFL, for sure.
There, there, there were others.
(13:20):
There were others for me, youknow, as a player, where you
know I made mistakes and wascalled out for them, and again
it was my teammates and you knowmy wife who were, you know, our
team chaplain, people that werevery supportive.
(13:43):
But when those times got rough,I could be, I could let my guard
down right, I had a place to tokind of put that stuff, you
know, and you know, along withthe physicality of the game, you
know, I think you know, mypost-career transition that's
probably one of the biggestthings is I had to be more, if
you will, courageous and openabout being vulnerable, because
(14:07):
one of my healthier outlets fordealing with some of that was
the physicality of playing thegame, you know.
You know if I was frustrated ormad or pissed about something,
you know well, I got to waylaysomebody, you know.
I got to go take out myfrustration or it could be
(14:27):
sadness, it could be anything.
I could take that out.
I could turn it into physicalaggression and it'd be
appropriate.
And you know, when I retired Ino longer had that outlet.
You know it's not appropriatefor me to go, you know, put on
my helmet and shoulder pads and,you know, waylaid Joe Blow
walking on the sidewalk.
Carol Park (14:48):
That might not go well.
Erron Kinney (14:49):
Yes, no it wouldn't go well.
So you know that was a bigthing for me.
You know, post-career.
You know even in those momentswhere I was vulnerable, you know
it was within, within thelocker room setting.
You know you have players andfriends and bonds that that you
(15:10):
setting.
You know you have players andfriends and bonds that that you
that become like brothers to youand that you trust and that you
know you can be vulnerable with.
And there's some people youcan't be vulnerable with.
I mean, it's a, it's a truth,but that's you know.
I think it takes some wisdom toand just understanding who, who
really is in your corner, whocan you really trust or how much
you can trust people with andwhen you're doing.
You know I had Brad Hopkins whowas like a big brother to me.
(15:30):
He was an officer tackle thatyou know that helped me and that
was, you know, just like a bigbrother example who had been
there longer, who had been there.
Done that.
You know Eddie George pullingme aside, frank Wycheck, you
know God rest his soul.
Like was my mentor.
You know, eddie George pullingme aside.
Frank Wycheck, you know Godrest his soul.
Like was my mentor.
You know, as a tight end.
(15:51):
You know a guy that did it at ahigh level.
I learned a lot about how to bea pro and and what it meant, and
you know, you know, even evenfor him, you know, I think you
know he was helpful for me, kindof you, mason, michael Booker
(16:28):
these are guys that were, youknow, I was able to kind of lock
arms with and I could count onin my corner and that I could be
vulnerable with and we couldtalk about things.
You know, whether we werefrustrated with how we were
playing as a team or as how wewere playing as individuals, or
it could be life stuff, it couldbe, you know, problems at home,
(16:50):
it could be the kids, it could.
You know those were the peoplethat that I I had in my corner
during my NFL career.
Um, you know that that werejust instrumental in a, a, a
place where I could bevulnerable, and you know, let my
guard down, um, reggie Pleasantwas our team chaplain, was very
(17:11):
instrumental with that as well.
Uh, being a sounding board orbeing a place to you know, uh,
just share your feelings or oryour inner thoughts or when you
need to, when you, when you hada time where you need to be
vulnerable and let your guarddown a little bit.
It was, you know, those trustedpeople that you have in your
corner that that you know couldbe a shoulder to cry on.
(17:33):
But they could also hold youaccountable constructively and
be like, hey man, no man, yougot to make plays, you got to,
you got to step up and do whatyou need to do.
Or hey man, you're not gettingit done in the in the weight
room or you're not.
Whatever it is, you know they,they're willing to hold you
accountable too, um, and be truepartners that way.
Um, and I think you know, for meI did not realize the.
(17:58):
That's probably the biggesttransition for me from football
to firefighting is that you know, after playing for I count
eight.
I know my career, officiallyseven, but I count eight because
that last year I was physicallyunable to perform.
But I that you know that lockerroom environment where you're
(18:19):
that tight knit, you know thatlocker room environment where
you're that tight knit, you know, and doing having your life
kind of scheduled and regimentedfor you there was so much that
was already planned out.
You know, and you know I wasrubbing shoulders with these
individuals all day, every day.
I probably spent more time withthem than I did with my family,
you know, at that point.
(18:39):
So, um, I think, when you're inthat scenario, whether it be in
the firehouse or, you know, inthe NFL, like the places I've
been able to work and my jobsI've worked at in the fire
department, my relationships,you know, with uh, lieutenant
John Lepiccolo and and peoplelike that who, uh, lieutenant
(19:04):
John Lepiccolo and and peoplelike that who, when, um, you
know, uh, I had Lieutenant Hoodfor a long time as as my, as my
commanding officer that I workedunder, but having those people,
those kinds of people in thefirehouse, that, um, you know,
josh North, good friends, thatthese people became like family,
that Brentwood Fire family,that was where I worked, having
(19:27):
those people, where you buildthose kind of relationships and
and also just actually not kindof he flat out, was a mentor to
me, uh, in you know my approachto uh leadership in the fire
service, and I always recognizewith him how, in tune to the
(19:52):
personnel, he was, you know,right, wrong, or indifferent, or
whether this guy or that guyhad a issue with him or whatever
he always seemed to be doing,you know, or moving in a
direction of the right thing andwhat was best for the
department.
But he also could hold stufftight.
So if you needed to bevulnerable, you could be
vulnerable with him.
(20:12):
And I think having officerslike that, like you know, how
could John Lepiccolo having asenior guy in the firehouse with
me, like Josh North, you know,you know working with those kind
of guys, you know In my fireservice career, you know they
(20:36):
they were a trusting it was, itwas, it was that family
atmosphere, that kind of got youthrough some tough times.
And I think you know, for mealso is I had to let go of like
the macho facade and I had to, Ihad to get, I had to seek, you
know, I had to reach out and getsome therapy.
Man, like you know, um, and I Idid that, um, initially kind of
(20:58):
reluctantly and then, as I, asI was involved in pursue that
and saw the benefits, you know,and experienced the benefits of
that, I was like man, why wasn'tI doing this years ago?
Carol Park (21:15):
Yeah, you know you speak so much wisdom in your
words today I just think, likewith the team part and having
someone that's, you know, older,wiser, that has your back, that
sees you in that moment ofvulnerability where you're just
(21:35):
getting reamed in the weightroom, in the locker room, in
front of the team and you'relike the emotions.
I think people don't realizethat vulnerability, the
emotional exposure piece, feelsso vulnerable Like whoa, I've
been seen and oh, again in thesemacho like oh, I've got to be
(21:55):
strong, I've got to suck it down, but somebody to say, hey,
seize you, encourage you, whichI know you've brought into your
own leadership style.
As you said, it was havingthese mentors, if you will,
teaching you.
And then the element you'retalking about of trust, you know
, and what builds trust.
And you're right, we were notgoing to be vulnerable with
(22:18):
everybody.
We're going to be vulnerablewith everybody.
We're going to know where it'sthe safe environment, where it's
okay.
Because in that early withvulnerability, there can be
those shame gremlins that comein and say, no, don't do this,
don't do this.
So if we don't have some shameresilience around that, it's
even harder to show up and beseen.
(22:39):
So so much your leadership,starting as a rookie, but then
building with your team and thentransitioning, because today
you're a fire chief leading allsorts of people and groups, and
officers like you're at the top,and so this leadership so what
(23:02):
wisdom do you think as a firechief around vulnerability and
courage do you think isimportant for those who are
first responders or firefighters?
What do you think is theimportant message here?
Erron Kinney (23:16):
I think the important message is you know I
think it's a couple actually, Ithink as leaders of departments,
or a department head or leaderof the fire department, you want
to do everything you can tofoster an environment that is
safe and trusting and thatprovides your personnel with the
opportunity to be vulnerablewith someone.
(23:37):
It's not necessarily, and Ithink it's unrealistic to expect
that.
You know the chief is supposedto carry that weight on his own,
but as an environment and as aculture within your department,
you want there to be.
You know a way for yourpersonnel to be vulnerable, a
way for them, you know, to shareand to be able to express
(23:59):
themselves when they face thosetough calls or when they make a
mistake, or you know when lifeis just tough.
I mean it could be unrelated toyou know, the fire department,
but the reality is, you know, inour service we do have really a
second family.
We spend as much time togetheron shift or in the firehouse as
(24:21):
we do with our families.
So you have to have people inthe firehouse and create an
environment in the firehousethat allows for that and doesn't
frown upon that and thatencourages it.
You know, I think, like you hadalluded to before.
Sometimes you get this facadeor this macho tough.
You know you just got to grinand bear it kind of you know
(24:42):
approach and attitude and youknow I think that can be very
dangerous.
You know, because you can.
You know at some point that'sgot to, that's got to go
somewhere, it's got to come outsomehow.
You're so right.
Carol Park (24:55):
I always say it comes out sideways and backwards
and a lot of times it's notpretty and it really can be
dangerous.
And so, finding the place toopen up and have the safe places
and you did touch on theemotional part, even when you
were in the NFL and you had anoutlet on the field like, oh,
(25:16):
you could show some of thataggression and it was okay.
But then realizing, okay, I gotto figure out some of this so
that it doesn't come outsideways and backwards and yeah,
and then having the courage tomove into that place and explore
it a little bit.
It does take a lot of courage,especially in places where
(25:37):
againo supposed to have it alltogether.
Yes, you know nothing's wrong.
So, yeah, I hear you providingthat, or trying to work to
create that psychological safetyfor those who are in your
department, which is so huge.
Erron Kinney (25:54):
Yes, and you know it is critically important.
You know, I know for me.
You know I have an open doorpolicy.
I expect my subordinateofficers to also have an open
door policy and I can't you knowI can't micromanage them and
force them to do things they'renot comfortable with.
But you know my deputy, youknow who is one of my key people
(26:18):
, that that you know we're ableto bounce things off of each
other and work together and leanon each other.
You know we both have open doorpolicies and you know sometimes
our personnel, we have to beempathetic and we have to be
compassionate.
You know, and and beintentional about that, because
you know I don't, I don't wantthe only time my people talk to
(26:38):
me is when there's a problem,and also don't want them not to
talk to me when there's aproblem.
So you know I try to.
We both try to check up on our,our people.
You know, if somebody calls outsick or they have a family
issue, you know we check in.
We try to check in and I try tobe, as you know, as diplomatic
(26:59):
as possible or allow as muchleeway as possible If someone's
facing a family crisis or anemergency or something like that
, you know.
You know I try to allow theleeway and the flexibility for
them to.
You know, leave when they needto leave, take time off when
they need to take time off.
Obviously there's parameters Ihave to stay within, but I try
(27:20):
to put the individuals firstbecause, at the end of the day,
the success of this organizationand the performance of my
organization and how well weserve our community isn't
dependent just on me.
It's those people within myorganization, the ones I'm
responsible for, that reallymake this thing go and it really
(27:42):
make this thing work.
So it's important to me.
You know that they feel safeand that they want to be here at
work.
They want to be in acomfortable, caring environment.
You know where their needs aremet and some of their wants are
even provided for.
And I think that you know in my,in my life, you know the
(28:06):
successful organizations orsuccessful teams.
You know, even from an NFLpoint of view, the team and the
atmosphere kind of changes, youknow, cause the locker room
changes over.
But you know I can remember thebest teams that I was on were
very, very much so connected, intune with each other and you
could be vulnerable.
(28:26):
There was.
You know there was a sense of,of, of culture and trust, kind
of globally, you know, andthat's challenging to create.
You know, um, that is somethingthat I want to create within my
organization.
I think we have it in somelevels, but I want it to
permeate through all facets ofmy organization because I feel
(28:47):
like it is important for peopleto have a space where they can
be vulnerable.
You know, and there's timeswhere you are going to have to,
you know, step up and be toughand go out and do the tough
stuff, but there should be aplace for you to come back and
safely process that and talkabout that, you know, and you
don't have to be hard and gruffand tough, you can just be, you
(29:09):
know.
I think that's important and ittook me a while to really
embrace that fully.
You know, and I like the wayyou use you.
You use courage, um, because itdoes.
I think it really does takecourage.
It takes more courage to bevulnerable than to stuff and to
not open up Um, and I I thinkI've learned that over the years
(29:31):
, and sometimes it was the hardway, because I know, growing up
I was a stuffer Um, and you knowthat it was.
It was.
It wasn't easy to make thattransition to.
You know, go into therapy oncea week, you know, um, you know,
committing to it, beingconsistent with it, that took,
(29:52):
you know, the same amount ofenergy and effort and discipline
as doing the work to get on thefield and doing the work to
become a fire chief, like, butit's work that you know it's
worth investing the time andenergy because the fruit of that
is you being healthier andwhole as as a person and then
able to do more and and bringmore to the table for your
(30:15):
organization or your team.
So, um, you know, I think it'sreally important in you know,
and in both of these professionsthere's definitely that, you
know, facade of.
You know well, you know it'salmost inhuman if you really
think about it right.
Like you have to be so toughand hard that, like you expect
(30:37):
this, these horrendous incidentsyou go to to not affect you, or
you expect this.
You know something you workedat so hard for so long to be a
professional football player andyou you mess up a play or you
lose a game, like there's anemotional, humongous
disappointment and let downthere.
Um, and that leads me to you.
You asked about an experience Ihad.
(30:57):
I remember, um, we played the kKansas City Chiefs, the second
game of our rookie year and itwas really hot in Nashville.
We ended up winning the game inovertime.
I played a whole, whole lot ofplays because the number two
tight end on the depth chart hadgotten injured in the first
(31:17):
game and we played primarily twotight end sets.
So I was in the game a lot,played a lot of plays and I was
young so I still planned a tonof special teams and everything
else.
And I remember, after we wonthe game I just came in the
locker room and everybody was,you know, excited.
We won in overtime and the playbefore we scored I'd made a big
(31:38):
block to, you know, for EddieGeorge to get yards, for us to
be in position for field goal,and I just remember being a
total and complete wreck.
We won the game but I had beenso focused and so locked in and
so, like, just I was emotionallyand psychologically and
(32:00):
physically completely spent andI didn't know anything else to
do and I couldn't, I just cried.
Carol Park (32:06):
I sat in front of my locker and cried and you know
yeah, as you said it was part ofyour message before is you're
more whole, you're more human.
Just be like you could be you.
And and again, your point to tobeing vulnerable with the safe
(32:29):
people.
You know that people who commonhumanity, they get it there,
they're there.
And so, yeah, well, gosh, aaron, thank you so much for your
time today.
I mean everything that you'vesaid your courage just to be on,
to share your story, tocontinue to lead in the way that
you're leading, to allow peopleto feel safe, safe enough to be
(32:54):
vulnerable, having the courageto be vulnerable and you
providing that space.
So grateful, always, sograteful for you as a first
responder.
We know that you continuallyput yourself, your life out
there for others, which I can'tthink of a more courageous act
(33:14):
and a vulnerable act.
So again, thank you so much foryour time, all your words of
wisdom today.
Erron Kinney (33:21):
Yes, thank you for having me and I apologize for
the little buzzes in thebackground.
We got really busy here at thefirehouse for some reason with a
bunch of calls when I wastrying to do this podcast, so I
apologize.
Carol Park (33:34):
Oh, you're good.
I don't think we'll really hearthem, so it's all good.
And again, thank you so muchfor your service to all of us,
so thank you.
Erron Kinney (33:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Thanks for tuning in to the Courage Unmasked podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe and
leave a review.
It really helps us grow.
Follow us on social media forupdates and a look at what's
coming next, and a big thank youto our sponsor, comixio, for
supporting this journey.
Until next time, keep leadingwith courage.
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