February 22, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when a career driven by bravery intersects with vulnerability? Join us on Courage Unmasked as we sit down with Fire Chief Blake Holt from Springdale, Arkansas, to explore this profound balance. Blake's journey is as inspiring as it is unexpected. Raised in a nurturing family in North Dakota, with his father in law and his mother in education, Blake initially aspired to be a physician. However, his experiences as an EMT in high school opened a new path, guiding him towards the fire service. You'll uncover how his upbringing and personal resilience have shaped a career that thrives on both courage and compassion, proving that vulnerability is not a weakness, but a powerful tool for growth and connection.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carol Park (00:02):
Hey everyone.
Well, welcome back to theCourage Unmasked podcast, where
we just continue to hear fromstories of real life people and
how they are courageous in theirown lives, through
vulnerability and in the arenaof vulnerability.
And I'm really excited tointroduce to y'all today as our
(00:24):
guest is Fire Chief Blake Holtfrom Springdale, arkansas, and
you know today, especially as weare all very aware of the
importance of our firefighters,knowing that all of the fires
out in the LA area andCalifornia, as we just continue
(00:45):
to be so grateful for theircourage, their work, we are just
so grateful and honored thatBlake Holt would join us today
on the podcast.
So welcome, blake.
Blake Holte (00:58):
Yeah, thank you so much.
I'm excited to have thisopportunity.
Carol Park (01:03):
Well, again, we really appreciate you and your
service.
So tell us a little bit abouthow your life's journey led you
to being a firefighter.
Blake Holte (01:14):
Sure, yeah, I grew up in a very small town in
northwest North Dakota NorthDakota, and it will become
important or relevant later inthe story but a son of a half a
career as an attorney and half acareer as a judge.
(01:34):
And then my mother was alibrarian who, after we were old
enough to be self-sufficient,went back to school and became a
teacher and her specialty wasin special education and spent
(01:55):
time running a group home fordevelopmentally delayed and
disabled and retired as apreschool special educator,
specializing in fetal alcoholeffects and fetal alcohol
syndrome.
Uh, so the you know, uh, as akid I had intended on uh being a
(02:21):
physician.
So that's what I thought Iwanted to do was was be a doctor
, and I committed to that,probably at about 11 or 12 years
old and, you know, didn'treally waver.
When I was in high school I hadan opportunity through the
state of north dakota becausethey lacked ems providers.
They had they allow emttraining at 16 and then, you
(02:46):
know, demonstrate that I hadsome experience with the
(03:15):
emergency side of medical careand dealing with patients as
people, patients as people, andthat sort of thing.
So so I did that.
So I took the EMT class I hadwhen I, when I was in high
school, there was three EMTs intown and at 17 years old I was
one of the three, and so thatwas that was really neat
(03:37):
experience for me.
The school allowed me to carrya pager and leave school if
there was an emergency and be anEMT.
So that was really something.
So after school I startedcollege and then I took a summer
job to keep my skill set andcertifications up.
(04:00):
I took a summer job in Omaha,nebraska, working for an
EMS-only service and they endedup.
I really enjoyed it and theykind of talked me into staying
there, and so I transferred fromthe University of North Dakota
to Creighton University and Iwent to school specifically
(04:22):
there to be a paramedic.
So, uh, so I was a paramedicand and worked a couple of years
doing that.
Uh, it just so happened thatSpringdale, arkansas at the time
, was advertising nationallythat they wanted paramedics
because the they run theambulance service here.
And, um, a guy that I was inclass with, he left right after
(04:45):
our paramedic class, got hiredin Springdale and came here and
I stayed in contact with him andhe said you know, you really
need to come check it out.
This is a neat place, and so Idid.
I came in and rode out andspent some time here and really
enjoyed the area.
It's kind of an outdoorsperson's paradise and that's
(05:10):
right up my alley.
And then the approach they tookand the pride they had in their
EMS care was particularlyappealing to me.
And so about a year and a halflater I tested for the fire
department here and ended uphired.
And so, yeah, I got married toa girl when I was in Nebraska
(05:34):
and she was ready to leave home,get away, and so we got married
and we moved, and we moved toArkansas specifically so I could
work at Springdale FireDepartment and I've been here
since since early 1996.
So, yeah, 29 years Along theway, there were some other
(05:59):
things that that happened, thathappened.
And so I say that because my Ifeel like now as a, as a parent
and having watched my childrengrow and and go on to do the
things that they're going to do,I look back and God bless my
parents because I had someunique opportunities.
(06:21):
Oftentimes when I listen topeople's stories they are
overcoming great adversity inlife and from bad situations or
challenging situations, and Ireally didn't have that Like.
I had great family support andI had some scholarship
opportunities that I turned downin pursuit of, you know, a
(06:44):
quest that really kind of turned.
And so, instead of, you know,being a physician, when I
remember, you know telling myparents that I'm going to, I'm
just going to be a, you know, aparamedic and a firefighter.
And you know my dad, he was avolunteer firefighter for years
(07:07):
when I was a kid, but I had nointerest in the fire service for
whatever reason.
But, yeah, I remember himasking me, you know, is this
like a real job, like somethingthat's got opportunity, you know
, longevity and opportunity andstuff?
And so, luckily, as it turnsout, for me it was, and so
(07:28):
everything worked out.
But I can imagine they had some, some probably nights and
weekend discussions about whatin the world is our son doing?
Carol Park (07:37):
Yeah, because it was a pivot for you, but parents to
a pivot for them of like, thisisn't the direction that he
thought he was going or wethought he was going.
So you know, that's that pieceof the emotional exposure, piece
of vulnerability to as wepursue our passions, that
(07:58):
sometimes it's other people'semotions too, not just our own,
in making those decisions.
So, but your parents weresupportive, it sounds like, and
just yeah, were there for you asyou pivoted.
So in the fire service, whichagain we think a lot about, you
know toughness and you got to bestrong, but there's
(08:22):
vulnerability in that Because,again, as we keep saying,
vulnerability is uncertainty,risk, emotional exposure.
So so much you're going on acall.
There's the uncertainty, therisk, just in and of itself.
So much courage in thatvulnerability.
So, in the context of your roleas a firefighter and leader,
(08:43):
how would you definevulnerability?
Blake Holte (08:46):
Well, I think and in your description it really
kind of embodies what, how Iwould define it, you know, I
think that vulnerability itselfis, you know, an exposure to
some type of harm or injury, andas a firefighter, that could be
physical, but also there's, youknow, the risk of psychological
(09:09):
, moral injury, adverseemployment action or
interpersonal relational injury,and so all of those things, I
think, are what definevulnerability.
Carol Park (09:23):
Yeah, so as a leader .
And when did you become firechief?
Blake Holte (09:30):
I became fire chief in December of 2021.
Carol Park (09:33):
2021.
So congratulations and yeah,becoming fire chief, you're now
leading leaders, and then thepeople underneath them and
you're a leader in the community.
And so you know, again,thinking that firefighting
(09:54):
intense job, supposed to bestrong, and you went to that
place of saying you know it'smore than just vulnerability to
physical injury, it could beemotional, mental, moral,
adverse, effective job,relational all such a part of
who we are.
So how do you support, as aleader, like, the mental health
(10:19):
aspect when, again, it's aprofession where you're supposed
to be just strong and tough andpush through and work through?
How do you support that whilestill being the authority and
the leader?
How do you do that?
Blake Holte (10:36):
uh, for me, uh is to be, uh, you know, honest and
transparent and, you know,letting people know that I deal
with the same no-transcript isthat?
(11:06):
Or the most important thing forme is our people, and so the
things that I can do is not somuch one-on-one but provide
resources, and so we provide aton of resources, people to deal
(11:27):
with any adverse effects.
We have a well-establishedmental health and wellness
program.
We have a great provider group.
Nikki Penn Counseling andConsulting works in our
department.
(11:47):
So Nikki has an office here andshe brings a dog and they
provide services that extend waybeyond like just counseling.
But we have a peer support team.
We do, you know, annual mentalhealth check-ins.
(12:11):
We do resilience training.
We have a in all of our trucks,in multiple places and at the
(12:36):
kitchen table and everythingelse.
We have a QR code that peoplecan scan and we call it, rate my
call.
But essentially, if they feeluneasy or upset about anything
that happened, incident related,they can scan that and then
they rate it, you know, on ascale, and then there's a
threshold where that is thenrouted to Nikki, to our peer
support members, and someonewill make you know personal
follow-up to those Our HRdepartment in the city has been
(13:02):
outstanding to work with as well.
They recognize the fact thatmental and behavioral health is
important, and so they allow usa lot of flexibility in giving
people letting people use theirpaid time off, sick leave,
whatever, for reasons other thanyou know they have a cold or
(13:25):
whatever.
Carol Park (13:25):
So if we can articulate, a reason that you
know people can use their leaveand that's been big for us to do
leader and really just all thaty'all have done, that the fire
(13:51):
service has done your community,to make it safe to be okay to
reach out for help, to saybasically, I'm not okay.
It's interesting because I didinterview on another podcast
episode a NYPD detective who wasthere at 9-11.
(14:15):
And one of his final points wasit needs to be okay to not be
okay and to provide thatenvironment where if you're
struggling, that's okay, youknow we're here and we'll
support you.
And I'm just amazed at all theresources that you have put
around your firefighters, yourfirst responders, to have that
(14:41):
support.
So that's pretty amazing.
And the QR code using technology, you know, rate my call and to
be able to have technology builtinto to access that.
So would you say, as you lookback on your career, is there a
time or some valuable lessonthat you learned about the
(15:05):
intersection of courage andvulnerability, about the
intersection of courage andvulnerability I can think of you
know lots of times, and butwhat I would say is that,
essentially, you know, courageand vulnerability they're
(15:26):
complementary, they're not inconflict, if that makes sense.
Blake Holte (15:29):
So the way I view courage is I would use different
words, but essentially it isaddressing or doing something,
you know, in spite of, or evenbecause of, a vulnerability.
You know you can't have onewithout the other or you can't
(15:53):
have courage without there beinga, an element of vulnerability.
That's that's how I would, youknow, define it is.
But you know, what I say isthat courage isn't the absence
of fear, it's, you know,acknowledging that there's
something else more importantthan that fear at a given time
or for a situation.
And it's, uh, you know,acknowledging that there's
something else more important,uh, than that fear at a given
time or for a situation.
(16:14):
And so that's that is, sayingthat I recognize there's
vulnerability, but for whateverreason, I'm intention, you know
I'm being intentional and makinga decision that you know I need
to do something that eitherexposes that vulnerability, uh,
but it's okay, because I'm doingit for the right reason.
And you know kind of how I, theway I kind of express it to our
(16:41):
new people, or every like.
When I first became chief, Ipretty much broke down my
philosophy as simple as I couldand basically I wanted people to
be nice, treat, you know, everyhuman being with the dignity
and respect that they deserve,to default, operationally, as
(17:08):
you know, aggressive and andwe're going to be mission first,
and what I the reason I believefire departments exist is is
we're going to put ourselvesbetween people in fire, you know
, to make rescues and you know,at at the end of the day, it's
(17:28):
it's pretty much as as for ourfirefighters, it's, you know, at
the end of the day, it's it'spretty much as for our
firefighters, it's, you know,it's as simple as that.
Do the right things for theright reasons.
That, and what I want everyoneto understand is like it's a,
it's a two way street.
Ok, so the way we're effectiveis we delegate and empower other
(17:48):
people.
We're effective as we delegateand empower other people.
Especially from my position,interestingly, what I've learned
is I feel like I'm way moretrusting of our 170 firefighters
(18:09):
than they are of me, and that'sfine.
But the thing is, when weempower people, like for me,
that exposes some vulnerability.
Right, I'm trusting thatthey're going to do the right
things in the right situations,and so we give them the very
loose guidelines and let them go.
People need to understand thatthere will be times and I can
(18:32):
speak to examples but there aretimes when you have to operate
in a way that is not in line ormaybe even contradicts our
policies.
And if they understand that,provided they do it for the
right reason and it's the rightthing to do for people and it's
legal, then I'm going to havetheir back and they can do that.
Carol Park (19:00):
I hear that's part of the way that you provide the
safety for them to do their job,knowing that it's within those
parameters that you justoutlined.
You're going to have their back, even if it's a little bit
outside of maybe, a policy orprocedure, because the truth of
vulnerability is it's theuncertainty.
I mean if we could write themanual to know every single
(19:24):
thing that happens and this iswhat you do, I think of it as a
parent, like if there was aparenting manual that said, if
this, then this, and you justfall.
But life's not that.
I mean it will throw us thecurve balls.
It will say, whoa, this wasn'tin the manual or you know so,
but I hear you having their backthat, again within the
(19:47):
parameters.
You said it's legal, all ofthat.
You're going to have their backand that's part of your
leadership that you're providingto give them the safe place to
do their job and to take care ofpeople.
And yeah, your definition toowas really profound, especially
coming from someone who putsthemselves in harm's way to help
(20:12):
people.
Yeah, it's such a greatdefinition.
It's interesting too.
I interviewed somebody elsewho's more in the
entrepreneurial world and I hadasked him to, in one sentence
try and define what is thecourage of vulnerability, and he
actually went to military orfirst responders.
You know, people who will runinto the uncertainty, the danger
(20:35):
, in order to help other people,and so it's the epitome of your
job and what you just described.
So yeah, thank you.
Do you described?
So yeah, thank you, do you.
(20:56):
How, like, can you think ofsomething that you really want
your new firefighters tounderstand about the courage of
vulnerability?
Blake Holte (21:20):
Great question.
Mostly, I think what Iencourage them to do is
recognize that the experienceyou have is going to be very
individual.
So you know it's hard for me tojust like you said I can't say
if this happens then you'regoing to have to do whatever.
Said I can't say if thishappens then you're going to
have to do whatever, butrecognize that you know
(21:41):
everyone's ability to process,to deal, is based on a set of
circumstances cumulative in yourlife and that is different for
everyone.
So, uh, you know you have togive yourself grace and
permission to be an individual,feel things when you feel them.
(22:02):
Uh, and you know the the mostimportant advice I think I give
them is understand when that wehave all of these resources and
we want you to use them.
And that has been a slow process.
(22:22):
So you know we didn't have thesupportive environment obviously
30 years ago.
That's pretty new for the firstresponder community, for fire
especially and so it startedvery slow.
(22:42):
And it started with kind ofinstruction, which is a good way
to introduce it to firefightersbecause they're used to
trainings and hearing stuff.
But you know, started real slowwith education about stress and
(23:09):
to where we are today now,which is we expect to interact
with a counselor on a regularbasis.
And even for the people, thebiggest gauge for me has been
even the people who you knowaren't going to use those
services.
They're just not there forwhatever reason.
(23:31):
They accept that it's okay iftheir buddy does or if their
subordinate does, that theydon't give them a hard time,
they don't make light of it ormake fun of it, and so that's
been huge for us where itbecomes culturally accepted,
even to the people who aren'tparticipatory.
(23:53):
That was a real slow process,but I'm glad we got there.
You know, I can think ofseveral very impactful moments
for me personally, and you knowlosing a good friend to suicide
was one of them.
That was extremely difficult,but it drove home to me how
(24:21):
important it is for us as anorganization to commit to making
it a priority that we provideall of the resources that we can
.
So, yeah, yeah, I can imagineand, like I said, you know no,
(24:43):
go ahead no, I was just.
Carol Park (24:44):
I was gonna say I can imagine how painful that was
and yeah, you're then, as thefire chief today, knowing the
importance of the resources, thecheck-ins, just to make sure
that people who may seem okaymight not be okay.
So, to have the check-ins, tohave it there for people who
(25:10):
need it and can reach out for it, and then also just to again,
even if they don't think theyneed it, to be supportive others
, because you never know whenyou might need it, and then the
environment has been createdthat you can see oh, I actually
do need it now and that's okay,and I've been supportive of
(25:30):
others, so maybe I could havethe courage to receive the help
myself.
Blake Holte (25:35):
So yeah, yes, it was hard for everyone, but as a
whole, like some other thingsthat were impactful to me, one
of those was I started young andI promoted young.
So, like now in today's, we'reexpanding.
(25:58):
It was a rapidly growing area,and so our department is about
like 65% less than five yearsexperience.
But when I started it obviouslywasn't that way it was.
You know, it was probably 85%,10 plus years experience, and so
I promoted into a supervisorposition at under four years on
(26:21):
the job, and so that put me in aposition to you know, I'm
supervising people who have beendoing this for 15 or 20 years,
and what I really really admireand respect for the people I
(26:43):
worked with was I never had anyproblems, I never got pushback,
I never got whatever.
I think it's being able torecognize in myself that I had.
You know, I had somevulnerabilities, some that they
(27:09):
didn't have, and I worked really, really hard and I think they
could see that, and so that'sthe other thing, although it's
not phrased that way, but when Italk to new people, you know,
let them know that your, yourcareer, can be what you make it,
(27:31):
and you know I love having a 30year firefighter if that's what
you want to do, but also, like,there's all kinds of
opportunities if you want to,you know, be a supervisor, or be
a technical rescue person, orbe a, you know, a driver,
whatever.
(27:51):
All those things are out there.
But you have to recognize thatin order to get those you have,
you know you have to make somecommitments to self-improvement,
and to do that means you haveto admit that you don't know all
the stuff that's out there andbe okay with it, and I always
(28:14):
felt that way.
I think one of the things thatwas hardest for me
psychologically too, was ormentally, you know, before we
had the help and stuff availablewas I was very, very concerned,
especially as a young officer,that If I didn't do Make good
(28:39):
decisions or, you know, dosomething right, I would get
people hurt or not, you know,save someone who is savable, you
know something like that and so.
So, yeah, that was that waskind of hard for me, and I still
, like, set myself up for havingbad sleep habits because I
(29:00):
didn't sleep much my first fewyears.
I spent hours every night ofjust playing situations in my
head and how am I going tohandle it and what am I going to
do if then, and it helped me.
I think it helped me in thelong run, but I probably there's
(29:24):
definitely times in my careerthat I could have done things
better, you know, more healthy,and so that's another reason why
I'm glad we have the supportthat we do now and the systems
in place and the systems inplace.
Carol Park (29:43):
You know, I think one of the themes that I hear as
we're talking here today is youreally amplify two sides of
what I think are the same coinindividuality and teamwork.
You know that you really supportyour officers individually,
your firefighters, your teammembers as individuals, what
(30:04):
they bring to the mix, what theybring to the team.
You encourage them to beindividual in their work and at
the same time, we're working asa team, we're supporting each
other, we're here for each otherand I think that that success
it's like two sides of the samecoin, with also just the
(30:25):
permission to be vulnerable, tobe human, which means that we
will fail at times.
I mean, it's such a huge burdento carry that I have to do
everything right or else, whichI get.
That's part of your trainingand that's what y'all go through
and go through the repetitionseven that you were going through
(30:45):
in your head over and over, andthen understanding too that
it's like we're going to do ourbest, as you said, and I'm going
to put myself really in harm'sway or in these situations, to
do my best to help and it won'talways go according to the book
(31:06):
or to plan right.
Blake Holte (31:09):
Yeah, yeah, exactly that's.
That's something that I had tolearn over time and didn't
really allow.
That's why I mentioned you know, I think most important for our
new people is that they, youknow, give themselves some grace
(31:30):
, Like we're doing good workhere, and even when it's tough,
like you know, understand thatwhat you're doing is helpful.
It's helpful to the communityas a whole, it's helpful to each
individual that you go and help, and you know you're right, it
(31:54):
doesn't always turn out the waywe want it to, or we would like
to hope that it will, but it'sstill, you know, you're still
doing good work.
Yeah, and like, certainly I'mOne second.
(32:24):
Yeah, I certainly.
You know, the greatest honorI've ever had is to represent
this organization because theydo really, really well.
We have a what I would say isan exceptional culture of
training and and so, like ouroperations people, they're
(32:44):
prepared as any department inthe country for anything that
might happen.
So you know, having said that,yes, sometimes it doesn't go
right and had to learn uh evenluckily, and you know, thanks to
nikki penn, that uh, you can douh everything to the best of
(33:11):
your ability, even at a veryhigh level, and things don't
turn out.
You know and, and that's okay.
Carol Park (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Blake Holte (33:19):
Or even if it's not okay, it just, it just is.
But two things can be true atthe same time yeah.
Carol Park (33:26):
Yeah, that's so true , I don't know Nikki Penn, but
I'm grateful for her.
It sounds like she's doinggreat work there too, as being
part of the team, if you will,to support those like yourself
and your other firefighters,team members, to just again
support the courageous, bravework that y'all are doing.
(33:49):
So, again, it's such an honorto have you on the podcast today
, so grateful for your time,because I know that fire chiefs
are busy and you've got a lot todo.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your message today and
just again, thank you for yourservice.
Blake Holte (34:13):
Oh, absolutely my pleasure.
Wouldn't want to do anythingelse, thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Okay, thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to theCourage Unmasked else.
Thank you, okay, thank you.
Hey everyone.
Well, welcome back to theCourage Unmasked podcast, where
we just continue to hear fromstories of real life people and
how they are courageous in theirown lives, through
vulnerability and in the arenaof vulnerability.
And I'm really excited tointroduce to y'all today as our
(00:24):
guest is Fire Chief Blake Holtfrom Springdale, arkansas, and
you know today, especially as weare all very aware of the
importance of our firefighters,knowing that all of the fires
out in the LA area andCalifornia, as we just continue
(00:45):
to be so grateful for theircourage, their work, we are just
so grateful and honored thatBlake Holt would join us today
on the podcast.
So welcome, blake.
Blake Holte (00:58):
Yeah, thank you so much.
I'm excited to have thisopportunity.
Carol Park (01:03):
Well, again, we really appreciate you and your
service.
So tell us a little bit abouthow your life's journey led you
to being a firefighter.
Blake Holte (01:14):
Sure, yeah, I grew up in a very small town in
northwest North Dakota NorthDakota, and it will become
important or relevant later inthe story but a son of a half a
career as an attorney and half acareer as a judge.
(01:34):
And then my mother was alibrarian who, after we were old
enough to be self-sufficient,went back to school and became a
teacher and her specialty wasin special education and spent
(01:55):
time running a group home fordevelopmentally delayed and
disabled and retired as apreschool special educator,
specializing in fetal alcoholeffects and fetal alcohol
syndrome.
Uh, so the you know, uh, as akid I had intended on uh being a
(02:21):
physician.
So that's what I thought Iwanted to do was was be a doctor
, and I committed to that,probably at about 11 or 12 years
old and, you know, didn'treally waver.
When I was in high school I hadan opportunity through the
state of north dakota becausethey lacked ems providers.
They had they allow emttraining at 16 and then, you
(02:46):
know, demonstrate that I hadsome experience with the
(03:15):
emergency side of medical careand dealing with patients as
people, patients as people, andthat sort of thing.
So so I did that.
So I took the EMT class I hadwhen I, when I was in high
school, there was three EMTs intown and at 17 years old I was
one of the three, and so thatwas that was really neat
(03:37):
experience for me.
The school allowed me to carrya pager and leave school if
there was an emergency and be anEMT.
So that was really something.
So after school I startedcollege and then I took a summer
job to keep my skill set andcertifications up.
(04:00):
I took a summer job in Omaha,nebraska, working for an
EMS-only service and they endedup.
I really enjoyed it and theykind of talked me into staying
there, and so I transferred fromthe University of North Dakota
to Creighton University and Iwent to school specifically
(04:22):
there to be a paramedic.
So, uh, so I was a paramedicand and worked a couple of years
doing that.
Uh, it just so happened thatSpringdale, arkansas at the time
, was advertising nationallythat they wanted paramedics
because the they run theambulance service here.
And, um, a guy that I was inclass with, he left right after
(04:45):
our paramedic class, got hiredin Springdale and came here and
I stayed in contact with him andhe said you know, you really
need to come check it out.
This is a neat place, and so Idid.
I came in and rode out andspent some time here and really
enjoyed the area.
It's kind of an outdoorsperson's paradise and that's
(05:10):
right up my alley.
And then the approach they tookand the pride they had in their
EMS care was particularlyappealing to me.
And so about a year and a halflater I tested for the fire
department here and ended uphired.
And so, yeah, I got married toa girl when I was in Nebraska
(05:34):
and she was ready to leave home,get away, and so we got married
and we moved, and we moved toArkansas specifically so I could
work at Springdale FireDepartment and I've been here
since since early 1996.
So, yeah, 29 years Along theway, there were some other
(05:59):
things that that happened, thathappened.
And so I say that because my Ifeel like now as a, as a parent
and having watched my childrengrow and and go on to do the
things that they're going to do,I look back and God bless my
parents because I had someunique opportunities.
(06:21):
Oftentimes when I listen topeople's stories they are
overcoming great adversity inlife and from bad situations or
challenging situations, and Ireally didn't have that Like.
I had great family support andI had some scholarship
opportunities that I turned downin pursuit of, you know, a
(06:44):
quest that really kind of turned.
And so, instead of, you know,being a physician, when I
remember, you know telling myparents that I'm going to, I'm
just going to be a, you know, aparamedic and a firefighter.
And you know my dad, he was avolunteer firefighter for years
(07:07):
when I was a kid, but I had nointerest in the fire service for
whatever reason.
But, yeah, I remember himasking me, you know, is this
like a real job, like somethingthat's got opportunity, you know
, longevity and opportunity andstuff?
And so, luckily, as it turnsout, for me it was, and so
(07:28):
everything worked out.
But I can imagine they had some, some probably nights and
weekend discussions about whatin the world is our son doing?
Carol Park (07:37):
Yeah, because it was a pivot for you, but parents to
a pivot for them of like, thisisn't the direction that he
thought he was going or wethought he was going.
So you know, that's that pieceof the emotional exposure, piece
of vulnerability to as wepursue our passions, that
(07:58):
sometimes it's other people'semotions too, not just our own,
in making those decisions.
So, but your parents weresupportive, it sounds like, and
just yeah, were there for you asyou pivoted.
So in the fire service, whichagain we think a lot about, you
know toughness and you got to bestrong, but there's
(08:22):
vulnerability in that Because,again, as we keep saying,
vulnerability is uncertainty,risk, emotional exposure.
So so much you're going on acall.
There's the uncertainty, therisk, just in and of itself.
So much courage in thatvulnerability.
So, in the context of your roleas a firefighter and leader,
(08:43):
how would you definevulnerability?
Blake Holte (08:46):
Well, I think and in your description it really
kind of embodies what, how Iwould define it, you know, I
think that vulnerability itselfis, you know, an exposure to
some type of harm or injury, andas a firefighter, that could be
physical, but also there's, youknow, the risk of psychological
(09:09):
, moral injury, adverseemployment action or
interpersonal relational injury,and so all of those things, I
think, are what definevulnerability.
Carol Park (09:23):
Yeah, so as a leader .
And when did you become firechief?
Blake Holte (09:30):
I became fire chief in December of 2021.
Carol Park (09:33):
2021.
So congratulations and yeah,becoming fire chief, you're now
leading leaders, and then thepeople underneath them and
you're a leader in the community.
And so you know, again,thinking that firefighting
(09:54):
intense job, supposed to bestrong, and you went to that
place of saying you know it'smore than just vulnerability to
physical injury, it could beemotional, mental, moral,
adverse, effective job,relational all such a part of
who we are.
So how do you support, as aleader, like, the mental health
(10:19):
aspect when, again, it's aprofession where you're supposed
to be just strong and tough andpush through and work through?
How do you support that whilestill being the authority and
the leader?
How do you do that?
Blake Holte (10:36):
uh, for me, uh is to be, uh, you know, honest and
transparent and, you know,letting people know that I deal
with the same no-transcript isthat?
(11:06):
Or the most important thing forme is our people, and so the
things that I can do is not somuch one-on-one but provide
resources, and so we provide aton of resources, people to deal
(11:27):
with any adverse effects.
We have a well-establishedmental health and wellness
program.
We have a great provider group.
Nikki Penn Counseling andConsulting works in our
department.
(11:47):
So Nikki has an office here andshe brings a dog and they
provide services that extend waybeyond like just counseling.
But we have a peer support team.
We do, you know, annual mentalhealth check-ins.
(12:11):
We do resilience training.
We have a in all of our trucks,in multiple places and at the
(12:36):
kitchen table and everythingelse.
We have a QR code that peoplecan scan and we call it, rate my
call.
But essentially, if they feeluneasy or upset about anything
that happened, incident related,they can scan that and then
they rate it, you know, on ascale, and then there's a
threshold where that is thenrouted to Nikki, to our peer
support members, and someonewill make you know personal
follow-up to those Our HRdepartment in the city has been
(13:02):
outstanding to work with as well.
They recognize the fact thatmental and behavioral health is
important, and so they allow usa lot of flexibility in giving
people letting people use theirpaid time off, sick leave,
whatever, for reasons other thanyou know they have a cold or
(13:25):
whatever.
Carol Park (13:25):
So if we can articulate, a reason that you
know people can use their leaveand that's been big for us to do
leader and really just all thaty'all have done, that the fire
(13:51):
service has done your community,to make it safe to be okay to
reach out for help, to saybasically, I'm not okay.
It's interesting because I didinterview on another podcast
episode a NYPD detective who wasthere at 9-11.
(14:15):
And one of his final points wasit needs to be okay to not be
okay and to provide thatenvironment where if you're
struggling, that's okay, youknow we're here and we'll
support you.
And I'm just amazed at all theresources that you have put
around your firefighters, yourfirst responders, to have that
(14:41):
support.
So that's pretty amazing.
And the QR code using technology, you know, rate my call and to
be able to have technology builtinto to access that.
So would you say, as you lookback on your career, is there a
time or some valuable lessonthat you learned about the
(15:05):
intersection of courage andvulnerability, about the
intersection of courage andvulnerability I can think of you
know lots of times, and butwhat I would say is that,
essentially, you know, courageand vulnerability they're
(15:26):
complementary, they're not inconflict, if that makes sense.
Blake Holte (15:29):
So the way I view courage is I would use different
words, but essentially it isaddressing or doing something,
you know, in spite of, or evenbecause of, a vulnerability.
You know you can't have onewithout the other or you can't
(15:53):
have courage without there beinga, an element of vulnerability.
That's that's how I would, youknow, define it is.
But you know, what I say isthat courage isn't the absence
of fear, it's, you know,acknowledging that there's
something else more importantthan that fear at a given time
or for a situation.
And it's, uh, you know,acknowledging that there's
something else more important,uh, than that fear at a given
time or for a situation.
(16:14):
And so that's that is, sayingthat I recognize there's
vulnerability, but for whateverreason, I'm intention, you know
I'm being intentional and makinga decision that you know I need
to do something that eitherexposes that vulnerability, uh,
but it's okay, because I'm doingit for the right reason.
And you know kind of how I, theway I kind of express it to our
(16:41):
new people, or every like.
When I first became chief, Ipretty much broke down my
philosophy as simple as I couldand basically I wanted people to
be nice, treat, you know, everyhuman being with the dignity
and respect that they deserve,to default, operationally, as
(17:08):
you know, aggressive and andwe're going to be mission first,
and what I the reason I believefire departments exist is is
we're going to put ourselvesbetween people in fire, you know
, to make rescues and you know,at at the end of the day, it's
(17:28):
it's pretty much as as for ourfirefighters, it's, you know, at
the end of the day, it's it'spretty much as for our
firefighters, it's, you know,it's as simple as that.
Do the right things for theright reasons.
That, and what I want everyoneto understand is like it's a,
it's a two way street.
Ok, so the way we're effectiveis we delegate and empower other
(17:48):
people.
We're effective as we delegateand empower other people.
Especially from my position,interestingly, what I've learned
is I feel like I'm way moretrusting of our 170 firefighters
(18:09):
than they are of me, and that'sfine.
But the thing is, when weempower people, like for me,
that exposes some vulnerability.
Right, I'm trusting thatthey're going to do the right
things in the right situations,and so we give them the very
loose guidelines and let them go.
People need to understand thatthere will be times and I can
(18:32):
speak to examples but there aretimes when you have to operate
in a way that is not in line ormaybe even contradicts our
policies.
And if they understand that,provided they do it for the
right reason and it's the rightthing to do for people and it's
legal, then I'm going to havetheir back and they can do that.
Carol Park (19:00):
I hear that's part of the way that you provide the
safety for them to do their job,knowing that it's within those
parameters that you justoutlined.
You're going to have their back, even if it's a little bit
outside of maybe, a policy orprocedure, because the truth of
vulnerability is it's theuncertainty.
I mean if we could write themanual to know every single
(19:24):
thing that happens and this iswhat you do, I think of it as a
parent, like if there was aparenting manual that said, if
this, then this, and you justfall.
But life's not that.
I mean it will throw us thecurve balls.
It will say, whoa, this wasn'tin the manual or you know so,
but I hear you having their backthat, again within the
(19:47):
parameters.
You said it's legal, all ofthat.
You're going to have their backand that's part of your
leadership that you're providingto give them the safe place to
do their job and to take care ofpeople.
And yeah, your definition toowas really profound, especially
coming from someone who putsthemselves in harm's way to help
(20:12):
people.
Yeah, it's such a greatdefinition.
It's interesting too.
I interviewed somebody elsewho's more in the
entrepreneurial world and I hadasked him to, in one sentence
try and define what is thecourage of vulnerability, and he
actually went to military orfirst responders.
You know, people who will runinto the uncertainty, the danger
(20:35):
, in order to help other people,and so it's the epitome of your
job and what you just described.
So yeah, thank you.
Do you described?
So yeah, thank you, do you.
(20:56):
How, like, can you think ofsomething that you really want
your new firefighters tounderstand about the courage of
vulnerability?
Blake Holte (21:20):
Great question.
Mostly, I think what Iencourage them to do is
recognize that the experienceyou have is going to be very
individual.
So you know it's hard for me tojust like you said I can't say
if this happens then you'regoing to have to do whatever.
Said I can't say if thishappens then you're going to
have to do whatever, butrecognize that you know
(21:41):
everyone's ability to process,to deal, is based on a set of
circumstances cumulative in yourlife and that is different for
everyone.
So, uh, you know you have togive yourself grace and
permission to be an individual,feel things when you feel them.
(22:02):
Uh, and you know the the mostimportant advice I think I give
them is understand when that wehave all of these resources and
we want you to use them.
And that has been a slow process.
(22:22):
So you know we didn't have thesupportive environment obviously
30 years ago.
That's pretty new for the firstresponder community, for fire
especially and so it startedvery slow.
(22:42):
And it started with kind ofinstruction, which is a good way
to introduce it to firefightersbecause they're used to
trainings and hearing stuff.
But you know, started real slowwith education about stress and
(23:09):
to where we are today now,which is we expect to interact
with a counselor on a regularbasis.
And even for the people, thebiggest gauge for me has been
even the people who you knowaren't going to use those
services.
They're just not there forwhatever reason.
(23:31):
They accept that it's okay iftheir buddy does or if their
subordinate does, that theydon't give them a hard time,
they don't make light of it ormake fun of it, and so that's
been huge for us where itbecomes culturally accepted,
even to the people who aren'tparticipatory.
(23:53):
That was a real slow process,but I'm glad we got there.
You know, I can think ofseveral very impactful moments
for me personally, and you knowlosing a good friend to suicide
was one of them.
That was extremely difficult,but it drove home to me how
(24:21):
important it is for us as anorganization to commit to making
it a priority that we provideall of the resources that we can
.
So, yeah, yeah, I can imagineand, like I said, you know no,
(24:43):
go ahead no, I was just.
Carol Park (24:44):
I was gonna say I can imagine how painful that was
and yeah, you're then, as thefire chief today, knowing the
importance of the resources, thecheck-ins, just to make sure
that people who may seem okaymight not be okay.
So, to have the check-ins, tohave it there for people who
(25:10):
need it and can reach out for it, and then also just to again,
even if they don't think theyneed it, to be supportive others
, because you never know whenyou might need it, and then the
environment has been createdthat you can see oh, I actually
do need it now and that's okay,and I've been supportive of
(25:30):
others, so maybe I could havethe courage to receive the help
myself.
Blake Holte (25:35):
So yeah, yes, it was hard for everyone, but as a
whole, like some other thingsthat were impactful to me, one
of those was I started young andI promoted young.
So, like now in today's, we'reexpanding.
(25:58):
It was a rapidly growing area,and so our department is about
like 65% less than five yearsexperience.
But when I started it obviouslywasn't that way it was.
You know, it was probably 85%,10 plus years experience, and so
I promoted into a supervisorposition at under four years on
(26:21):
the job, and so that put me in aposition to you know, I'm
supervising people who have beendoing this for 15 or 20 years,
and what I really really admireand respect for the people I
(26:43):
worked with was I never had anyproblems, I never got pushback,
I never got whatever.
I think it's being able torecognize in myself that I had.
You know, I had somevulnerabilities, some that they
(27:09):
didn't have, and I worked really, really hard and I think they
could see that, and so that'sthe other thing, although it's
not phrased that way, but when Italk to new people, you know,
let them know that your, yourcareer, can be what you make it,
(27:31):
and you know I love having a 30year firefighter if that's what
you want to do, but also, like,there's all kinds of
opportunities if you want to,you know, be a supervisor, or be
a technical rescue person, orbe a, you know, a driver,
whatever.
(27:51):
All those things are out there.
But you have to recognize thatin order to get those you have,
you know you have to make somecommitments to self-improvement,
and to do that means you haveto admit that you don't know all
the stuff that's out there andbe okay with it, and I always
(28:14):
felt that way.
I think one of the things thatwas hardest for me
psychologically too, was ormentally, you know, before we
had the help and stuff availablewas I was very, very concerned,
especially as a young officer,that If I didn't do Make good
(28:39):
decisions or, you know, dosomething right, I would get
people hurt or not, you know,save someone who is savable, you
know something like that and so.
So, yeah, that was that waskind of hard for me, and I still
, like, set myself up for havingbad sleep habits because I
(29:00):
didn't sleep much my first fewyears.
I spent hours every night ofjust playing situations in my
head and how am I going tohandle it and what am I going to
do if then, and it helped me.
I think it helped me in thelong run, but I probably there's
(29:24):
definitely times in my careerthat I could have done things
better, you know, more healthy,and so that's another reason why
I'm glad we have the supportthat we do now and the systems
in place and the systems inplace.
Carol Park (29:43):
You know, I think one of the themes that I hear as
we're talking here today is youreally amplify two sides of
what I think are the same coinindividuality and teamwork.
You know that you really supportyour officers individually,
your firefighters, your teammembers as individuals, what
(30:04):
they bring to the mix, what theybring to the team.
You encourage them to beindividual in their work and at
the same time, we're working asa team, we're supporting each
other, we're here for each otherand I think that that success
it's like two sides of the samecoin, with also just the
(30:25):
permission to be vulnerable, tobe human, which means that we
will fail at times.
I mean, it's such a huge burdento carry that I have to do
everything right or else, whichI get.
That's part of your trainingand that's what y'all go through
and go through the repetitionseven that you were going through
(30:45):
in your head over and over, andthen understanding too that
it's like we're going to do ourbest, as you said, and I'm going
to put myself really in harm'sway or in these situations, to
do my best to help and it won'talways go according to the book
(31:06):
or to plan right.
Blake Holte (31:09):
Yeah, yeah, exactly that's.
That's something that I had tolearn over time and didn't
really allow.
That's why I mentioned you know, I think most important for our
new people is that they, youknow, give themselves some grace
(31:30):
, Like we're doing good workhere, and even when it's tough,
like you know, understand thatwhat you're doing is helpful.
It's helpful to the communityas a whole, it's helpful to each
individual that you go and help, and you know you're right, it
(31:54):
doesn't always turn out the waywe want it to, or we would like
to hope that it will, but it'sstill, you know, you're still
doing good work.
Yeah, and like, certainly I'mOne second.
(32:24):
Yeah, I certainly.
You know, the greatest honorI've ever had is to represent
this organization because theydo really, really well.
We have a what I would say isan exceptional culture of
training and and so, like ouroperations people, they're
(32:44):
prepared as any department inthe country for anything that
might happen.
So you know, having said that,yes, sometimes it doesn't go
right and had to learn uh evenluckily, and you know, thanks to
nikki penn, that uh, you can douh everything to the best of
(33:11):
your ability, even at a veryhigh level, and things don't
turn out.
You know and, and that's okay.
Carol Park (33:18):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Blake Holte (33:19):
Or even if it's not okay, it just, it just is.
But two things can be true atthe same time yeah.
Carol Park (33:26):
Yeah, that's so true , I don't know Nikki Penn, but
I'm grateful for her.
It sounds like she's doinggreat work there too, as being
part of the team, if you will,to support those like yourself
and your other firefighters,team members, to just again
support the courageous, bravework that y'all are doing.
(33:49):
So, again, it's such an honorto have you on the podcast today
, so grateful for your time,because I know that fire chiefs
are busy and you've got a lot todo.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your message today and
just again, thank you for yourservice.
Blake Holte (34:13):
Oh, absolutely my pleasure.
Wouldn't want to do anythingelse, thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Okay, thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to theCourage Unmasked else.
Thank you, okay, thank you.
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