Lighting the Path to Success with Raymond Thompson

This episode of Courageous Conversations features Raymond Thompson, Senior Lighting Director for The Young and the Restless for over 40 years. Raymond shares his journey of shaping the show’s iconic look and atmosphere through visionary lighting design, earning 10 Daytime Emmy nominations and wins along the way. He discusses his early years, how he pivoted from acting to lighting, and the lessons he’s learned about creativity, leadership, and teamwork. Raymond’s story is one of passion, curiosity, and the power of commitment, offering valuable insights for anyone looking to make an impact in their field.

This episode is brought to you by AceUp and Produced and Edited by Buttered Toast.

Episode Transcript

Paul (00:05):
Welcome to Courageous Conversations.
Today we dive into theremarkable journey of Raymond
Thompson, Senior LightingDirector for the Young and the
Restless for over 40 years.
Ray's visionary lighting shapedthe show's atmosphere and
emotion, playing a key role inits enduring success as one of
the most watched daytime dramas.

(00:25):
With 10 Daytime Emmy nominationsand wins, his innovative
techniques set a new standardfor lighting design, influencing
the entire soap opera genre.
Ray's legacy is one ofstorytelling through light,
creating moments that defineboth the show and the industry.
Let's explore the brilliancebehind the scenes.

(00:51):
Raymond, welcome to CourageousConversations.

Raymond (00:54):
Thank you, Paul.
I'm honored to be here.

Paul (00:56):
So I'd like to start, uh, at your starting point, and I'd
like you to tell me what you'rethe product of.

Raymond (01:04):
I'm a product of, parents that had great latitudes
in allowing me to find myself,really.
As a child, I I did a lot ofreading and I was really kind of
an introvert in many ways formany years.
I developed this fantasy life,reading life, I immersed myself
in books to the point where myfirst jobs were actually at
libraries because they said,well, you're here all the time.

(01:26):
Why don't you get a job here?
So that was kind of a greatthing.
And I think that fostered myimagination and fostered my
ability to put myself in otherpeople's shoes.
In characters in books, you putyourself in their positions.
And I think all of that led tome having this sense of
confidence.
And then I had these parentsthat really gave me permission
to explore a lot of differentavenues.

(01:49):
When I became, a little laterwhen I became interested in,
theater, right?
In high school, and my parents,neither of them had anything to
do with theater.
So, along came this audition tobe in the musical Camelot.
And I'm in my freshman year inhigh school.
And so I thought nothing about,going to audition for this.

(02:11):
And my father went out, thosewere the days of reel to reel
tape, and he went out and boughtme a reel to reel recording of
Richard Burton doing Campelot onBroadway and I practiced with
that, and I went in, and here Iam a freshman, and I'm walking
in all these seniors who haveplanned out their lives, and
they knew they were going to getthese roles.

(02:31):
I got the role! So it was thatmy experience in fantasy life
had allowed me to imagine that Icould do that.
And it gave me a courage to, toknow that I could achieve
something, that there were noboundaries.
So, that's kind of thebeginning, I think, and then I

(02:52):
went on to careers that they hadnothing to do with,

Paul (02:54):
yeah, So when you left home, what did you believe about
yourself?

Raymond (03:00):
I believed that I was capable of things.
I was curious.
I was always curious, and I hadbeen taught by my parents to
always look at what the otherperson is doing and react to
that.
For instance, my father wouldhave these projects and I would
be drawn into them.
And he was a taskmaster in termsof, you know, if you're working

(03:23):
with somebody, You're payingattention to what they're doing.
And so if you're holding a lighton something that they're doing,
light's not off to the sideit's, it's on whatever it is,
because otherwise you're notassisting.

Paul (03:35):
So how did this concept of actor waiter versus waiter actor
when you got your first job inNew York?

Raymond (03:43):
Well, at the time I was going to new York to get a job.
And, I graduated, I had my BA inacting.
I'd done shows in town,productions theater productions,
primarily.
I'd done a little bit of film,but, I wanted to go to New York
and I wasn't interested intechnical theater or anything
like that, but I knew that, Ineeded to go to New York and be

(04:06):
an actor first and a waitersecond, because you always know
you're going to have to bewaiting tables to begin with,
unless you go with a lot ofmoney so I thought, well, I
better get a job that I can makesome money.
So I networked around and thepeople that I was, had gone to,
university with, and one womanthat had been a real tight
friend of mine had recommendedthat I put in an application at

(04:26):
CBS to work as a stagehand.
And she said, go in and tell methe whole process, go into the.
Union, put in your application,do all this stuff.
And I thought, okay, I can doall that.
I've had theater training.
I've been in front of thelights.
I could be behind them.
So I went in and put in theapplication.
Lo and behold, I got my firstjob, right?

(04:49):
And the purpose of that was togo in with money, to New York
again as an actor waiter.

Paul (04:55):
And so was the actor waiter concept, was that Arthur?
Was that Camelot coming through?

Raymond (05:02):
I think so.
I think that that was me justbeing, having this goal in mind
and not being fearful aboutachieving it.
When I went to the union hall toput in the application, I ended
up being pulled out of the lineby this, business agent it was
seen right out of the Godfather,right?

(05:22):
Or, Goodfellas.
I mean, he was this guy dressedin a three piece suit with a big
cigar in his hand.
And he came out and pulled meout of the line and took me into
this paneled office and startedquestioning me.
And I, don't know why.
He seemed to be fairly,encouraging.
At the end of it, he said, well,you know, with your background,
there's a lot of things youcould do, but, we'll look into

(05:45):
it.
And then I got the call two dayslater and people that I'd gone
to school with that had studied,theater that had studied, stage
work, had never been interviewedin that way, or had never gotten
that response, I think.
So

Paul (05:57):
What do you think that was?

Raymond (05:59):
Well, I think it was, I connected, I was paying
attention to what he was saying.
And I think there's an empathythat comes with that.
And I'm interested in things.
I was interested in what he wassaying.
And I was fearless.
My first call was on a showwhere I was, um, they asked me
to run a follow spot an arcfollow spot, which I'd never

(06:19):
done before.
So I spent a few hours the nightbefore, before I went in and
talked to a guy that had done itand made all these notes on the
process.
And when I ended up going in, Ihad the best looking follow spot
of anybody on the call.
So it's just a matter ofconcentration, I think, and
commitment and curiosity.

Paul (06:40):
You know, it's interesting as I listen to you, I often talk
to young leaders who are, youknow, say, how do I break in,
right?
How do I get my first, managerjob or my first director job or
whatever that is.
And I heard you just tell us payattention, be curious and
dedicate time to your craft.

Raymond (06:58):
Yeah.

Paul (07:01):
You have this mantra, in tandem to that, you have this
mantra, be willing, I've heardyou say that in other podcast
interviews, what does that mean?

Raymond (07:12):
That means, to be willing is to listen to what's
being said.
What somebody's saying to youand what they're requiring and
never saying, oh, I can't dothat or, and making up excuses
why you can't do it, becauseanything I think I truly believe
pretty much anything ispossible.
It's just your belief, yourability to make the commitment

(07:33):
to do it really.
And you can also say at timesyou might say, well, this might
take a little longer than youmight think it should.
But.
it's going to be possible.
And to me, that's what it is.
It's commitment to, andwillingness to pursue something.

Paul (07:49):
So there you are, a young actor who gets a call by CBS,
right?
You go in, you've got the, thelight, right?
The job and you're justthinking, I'm going to work this
job so I can make money and goback to acting.

Raymond (08:04):
Yeah.

Paul (08:04):
And how did this mindset of be willing, Open up a new
door.
How did you decide, Oh gee, I'mgoing to give up acting and lean
into this.
How did that happen?

Raymond (08:14):
Well, It was interesting, CBS at that point,
they'd really been the, CBSTelevision City was the first
place that really did televisionin the United States.
That did a studio built fortelevision.

Paul (08:28):
That's LA, right?
Yeah, LA.

Raymond (08:30):
And, yeah.
And they built it.
They looked at the BBC and theydecided that this is how we'll
do the stages.
They built four prototypestages.
So, I ended up going in withthese guys that, were at the
beginning of television, andthey had these lighting
directors and lightingdesigners.
And I think I was picked out ofthe crowd because I paid
attention.
And at one point they neededboard operators.

(08:52):
And so I had been, there's justa shorter period of time, but I
had management come down andthey said, I guess they must
have been impressed with how I'ddone my jobs, right?
And they knew that I had abackground.
And so they came down and theysaid, would you like to train to
be a, a board operator?
And I said, sure.
So, I went to board school forone day, and then I got thrown

(09:14):
on a show.
And, uh, it was a game show.

Paul (09:17):
Oh, a game show.

Raymond (09:20):
And, it was a show called Hue, which was, um, not a
very memorable show, but there Iwas, so I kind of, I knew enough
to do what I was doing, butthere was always a danger you go
to black, which you never shoulddo if you make a big mistake.
So, I survived that.
And the lighting director that Iwas working with was impressed.
So I ended up getting more boardjobs on other shows.

(09:44):
And, then I ended up on it with,a guy named Art Roberts, who,
saw in me, I guess, potentialand at this point I had also
been there about a year and theyasked me to do the Emmys live,
right?
Which they were doing at thatpoint at the Pasadena Civic.
So I'd kind of done this testunder fire.
And so, when they needed alighting designer, he said, I'd

(10:06):
like to train Ray to be alighting designer.
So that was a pivot, I guessyou'd say.
Because at that point, I sawthat as an artistic outlet for
the thing that I saw in actingthat I loved.
You know, this ability to, paintwith light, right?
To be a part of that wholeproduction process, which is to
me, what's exciting abouttheater and about, the

(10:28):
entertainment industry is you'reworking with other people that
are also artists.
And, so I saw that I loved thatchallenge of creating and
lighting people and lightingscenes which had great variety
because every scene isdifferent.
So that's kind of how it cameabout, you know, I ended up
working with these guys that hadbeen in the business that had

(10:49):
done Playhouse 90s and, earlytelevision that was incredible
stuff that they did with verylittle resources compared to
today.

Paul (10:58):
You know, you remind me of, as you're talking, sometimes
the pivot that we take as humansis a juxtaposition of how we
understand things.
And you said you wanted to be anactor.
And then you said, throughlighting, you found artistry in
that.
And that gave you the same typeof satisfaction in creation.

Raymond (11:19):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And in the same kind of, it'sall because they're all parts of
creating, telling a story,right?
And, as an actor, that's whatyou're doing is you're playing a
character, you're telling astory.
And it contributes to all ofthat.
You know, the lighting does,everything does.
And I was a part of that wholeprocess, which I found exciting.

(11:42):
I still love acting though.

Paul (11:44):
So before we get into the middle of this, I want to fast
forward to the end.

Raymond (11:48):
Okay.

Paul (11:49):
And now you're seeing yourself, right, with 10 Emmys,
10 nominations and 10 Emmys.
I'm wondering, now, as you lookback, why did you choose to tell
stories through light?

Raymond (12:03):
I chose it because, lighting, to me, is the most
integral part of setting ascene.
and creating an atmosphere, andconveying emotional content
we've all seen that in manymovies, if something is just
flat lit.
It's hard to get involved to bepulled into it.

(12:24):
And if something's interestinglylit and we're seeing so many
more things now with the camerasthat are available, it's easier
to do than it was at one time,but that's what really draws you
in, I think, feeling like you'rein a real place and everything
that's happening is notartificial.

Paul (12:42):
Interesting.
And so when you talk to peoplenow, you know, younger people or
people who are, trying to pivotor understand what the
circumstance is, do you everthink to yourself, if they just
shifted the lighting or hung alighting rack or looked around
the corner, they could seethings differently?
Or how does lighting play intoyour perspective today of people

(13:04):
who are stuck or challenged?

Raymond (13:08):
Well, that's an interesting question.
Let me think about that for justa second.
I tend to use a lot of lightinganalogies when I talk to people.
I just think that to besuccessful at lighting, you
really have to know the story,right, and you have to
understand what you're trying toconvey, and I think that if I
was talking to a young person, Iwould use the same principles, I
would say, look, you have tobreak this down and analyze, As

(13:32):
I would do with the lightingsituation, lighting plot, and
you have to look at all theoptions, but you have to be
aware that you have to beflexible because people change,
people miss their marks, that'swhat life is about is being
flexible and being able to setyourself up with a framework
that's adaptable so you're notfrozen.

(13:52):
Some people, that I've workedwith in the past will be
lighting a set and they boxthemselves in so that they have
no flexibility.
Especially when you're workingunder time constraints.
So I guess I would apply that toadvice.
If I were giving advice, I'dsay, pay attention and pretty
much use the same principlesthat I've used to light a set or
light a scene.

Paul (14:14):
You know, you remind me as you're talking you once filmed a
plane crash in a buildingcollapse all in one week.

Raymond (14:21):
Yeah.

Paul (14:22):
And I'm wondering how did you balance the need to keep
your emotions in check because Ican imagine it was tremendous
pressure while serving thetechnical challenges of a shoot
like that.

Raymond (14:36):
Well, I was helped by my ability to concentrate, to
focus in and not be distractedby extraneous, input, you're
focused on your goal, I thinkthat's the main thing.
And just knowing that it'spossible to do, and planning,
going into it, planning is 90percent of it.
The constructs you make in mycase, lighting constructs, the

(15:01):
way I hang it, the way the plotis set up, where the lights are
positioned, all of that, and theflexibility that I create with
all that, that gives me theability to work quickly I take
the time in the setup, becausewhen you're executing on
anything, there may not be time.
It's too late then.
Preparation, everything ispreparation.

Paul (15:21):
You have three themes running through so far, and what
I'm hearing.
Okay.
You've said that, you know,planning and preparation.
Yeah.
You have belief that anything ispossible and focus,

Raymond (15:32):
you

Paul (15:33):
know, tremendous focus on whatever it is you're doing.
And I wonder was there a lesson,a leadership lesson, you know,
behavioral lesson that keptcoming up over and over for you.
Sometimes it's your greateststrength, right?
Could also be your greatestweakness throughout your career.
Was there a lesson that keptcoming up or like, Oh, there it
is again, like Raymond, there itis again.

(15:56):
And what was that?

Raymond (15:58):
Well, there was an affirmation, I guess.
Maybe let me say that.
We had a new producer come in.
It's one point, on my show and,she had done many shows before,
she got to our show and I won'tget into names or anything, but
she had, been fired from a fewof them.
And, yet she was brought in toproduce this show, which was a
very successful show.

(16:18):
And she had brought an entouragewith her of people that, she
felt comfortable with, which Iunderstand completely, to some
degree, but she came in and wewere very successful.
I was, at that point I wassuccessfully doing my thing on
the show.
But she decided that she wantedto bring these people in.
Rather than be threatened bythat, I took that as a

(16:39):
challenge.
And I said, well, I'm going tohelp, the new person she brought
in.
She said, I want him to workwith you.
I said, great, bring him in.
Many of his ideas were prettymuch things that I tried in the
past.
And I knew that these things arenot successful, especially when
you're in a situation where, youhave to have results and you
have to have them now.

(17:00):
If you hold people up, it'shundreds of thousands of
dollars, right?
So, but I said, absolutely, I'mgoing to help you and to do
this.
And so my crew that I had, Iencouraged them all to work, you
know, with him and I worked withhim.
And, he had us trying things.
Like I said, that I knewwouldn't work, but we did them
and we did them in a way that hesaid, wow, nobody's ever done

(17:21):
this as well.
And I thought, well, okay.
And so, about six months intothis, they called a production
meeting with my department.
He was there and the producerwas there and, one of the
executive producers, said, well,we have to make a decision here
because this is taking a longtime and, it's not, looking
really good at all now withdoing what we're doing.

(17:42):
And so we either continue whatwe're doing now, or we go back
to what we were doing with Rayor we just hang fluorescent
lights in the studio.
I don't know, but something hasto change here because, and we
want Ray to go back to doing it.
And I think that the thing thatworked there was I leaned into
it and I gave him everythingthat I could give him, right, to

(18:03):
help him succeed with what hewanted to do, which I knew was
not going to work.
But, given the constraints ofhow we worked on the show,
you're doing a soap opera, whicha lot of content in a very short
amount of time.
So I think that was anaffirmation that, it's listening
and it's being willing and it'ssaying, you know, nothing's

(18:23):
impossible.
If you want to do it this way,we can do it this way.
And then the result was I endedup without, he was gone and I
was doing it.

Paul (18:31):
So, you know, it's interesting because I'm sure
there are people listening,thinking he's either a saint or
a dummy because he didn't pushback, and of course it worked
out.
Counterproductive

Raymond (18:42):
pushing back.
I mean, it's counterproductivereally.
What's the point of that?
You know, the constraints of thesituation is she's the producer.
And so, you know, you either gowith that and try to do and give
it your best.
But

Paul (18:56):
there's really something in there about ego and how you
were able to just put your egoaside.
I'm sure there were lots ofconversations on the home front,
but put your ego aside and justsay, okay, I'm going to lean in
and be willing again, thatanything is possible, right?
That mindset of be willing.
How did you put your ego incheck and just, lean in and say,

(19:18):
okay.

Raymond (19:19):
At this point.
It was his thing, you know, myego was not involved because it
was his, ideas that I'mexecuting for him.
So they knew, and they knew thatI could do it because I had been
doing it.
So I wasn't worried aboutconvincing anybody.

Paul (19:38):
Me ask you about that because we started by talking
about how lighting is artistryand how, lighting creates the
mood and sets the stage andinvites you in.
And so, I can imagine peoplelistening who have the same
situation where somebody comesin over there, puts in a new
process and you leaned in, yousaid, okay, I'm going to do it.

(19:58):
But how did you manage thatpiece around artistry?

Raymond (20:03):
Well, you know, I tried to improve upon what he did to
make it work, to get it to thepoint where it was doing what he
thought it should do.
And indeed, it was the best lookthat he had ever gotten.
I knew that was not the bestlook that was possible, but I
certainly shaped what he did andmade it.
And he is the one that told meand acknowledged that it had

(20:25):
never looked this good.
He just didn't have the abilityto look at something and go,
well, this is not, this is crap,basically.

Paul (20:33):
Interesting.
So I imagine the Young and theRestless is like a team.
I've heard you talk about thatbefore.
You're a close knit team.
And, for leaders on listening,there are also teams that
they're working in.
Sure.
For your role, you weren't frontof camera.
And so I'm sure actors with egosand all the accolades and

(20:53):
commercials and, the pay and allof that.
How did you feel like you werecontributing, even though you
weren't in front of the camera?
How did that equate for you interms of being equal and feeling
like an equal member of theteam?

Raymond (21:08):
At the end of, all the production series, the crawl
goes through and there's yourname on it and you were
responsible for doing thelighting on the show.
for the look of the show.
And for me that whole ensemblething, that's my contribution to
it.
And I think a show in the caseof television entertainment,
it's only as good as its weakestlink.

(21:29):
The weakest link can be thewriting, but you can have
fabulous writing and if it looksterrible and you're drawn out of
the moment by the fact that thislooks like nothing that ever
existed in the universe, right?
This look, the, of a, you're ina set somewhere and it's, looks
like a set.
Then, no matter how good thescript is, and no matter how
wonderful the acting is, itdraws you out.

(21:51):
It takes away from all that.
So, I feel like that, everybodyhas a role to play, and it only
works if everybody pullstogether and everybody fulfills
their role.

Paul (22:01):
And it sounds like everybody understands the value
of their role.

Raymond (22:05):
Oh, absolutely.
Especially when you see it donebadly.
Then you appreciate it.

Paul (22:09):
Yeah.
I'd like to talk about, burnout.
A lot of people in the workforceare burned out.
And you were at CBS for 40years.
You worked 12 hours a day.
A couple of times you didn't gohome for four days, right?
12 hours a day, average fivedays a week.

Raymond (22:26):
Yeah.

Paul (22:28):
How did you not burn out?

Raymond (22:29):
Well, you know, for me, it was the challenge of it, I
guess, that kept me going.
And the fact that it was alwaysdifferent, certainly you're
working, with sets that you mayhave worked before, but
everybody wants to shoot itdifferently and everybody wants
to try to be the one that findsa new way to do something.
So you're responding to allthat.
The fact that the story changes,every story is a little

(22:50):
different.
And so, every time you'rereinventing it, and you're
making it work for that setup,for that situation.
So, I guess, it was neverboring.
If I'd done a game show for 40years, I would shot myself, but
the fact that it was a drama,and every day brought a
challenge, and we would dothese, locations that were

(23:11):
pretty exciting and they hadincredible challenges.
That kept it fresh, I think.
I do remember a few times where,the size of it all.
You mentioned the airplane crashand the building collapse and
all of that.
Sometimes the size of themountain to climb, is daunting,
what I learned to do as an actoris you break things down, you

(23:34):
break things down into momentsand you just start at the
bottom.
You don't look at the endresult.
You start at the bottom and youbuild the house, right?
You construct what you're doing,but you start at a base level
and build up and that's kind ofwhat kept me fresh when I, at
times I would get overwhelmed.
I would just go back and startand just set it all up.

(23:57):
And then once it's there, onceyou've got it set up.
And you've gone over that hump,then you get to do the artistic
part, which is be creative andin the moment, you know, react
to things that happen and comeup.
And, and that's exciting.
I never got bored with that partat all.

Paul (24:15):
So you were always stimulated.

Raymond (24:17):
Yeah.

Paul (24:18):
So I don't think our listeners understand how.
Much pressure there is infilming an episode.
It is down to the second.
They count it down in thebackground.
And there you are on thelighting board, right?
Doing the work.
How did you manage that?
Can you just walk us throughthat pressure?
Because every day is pressure.

(24:38):
Yeah.

Raymond (24:39):
Well, you know, the good thing about now I didn't
have to actually sit on thelighting board.
That was only in the beginning,when I first started before I
became a lighting director.
So the way that worked, the wayit was set up for us is that I
had a board operator next to meand I had the video guy next to
me that was operating shading,the cameras, running iris
control and all that.
So between us, we're all workingtogether to make.

(24:59):
especially the video guy and Iare, we're working together to
make this look.
It's what a cinematographer doesreally.
There's a little bit of acombination there.
That part, I had the advantageof working so many years with
people that in, in the case ofmy video man, right.
That we'd worked so many yearstogether that we kind of sensed

(25:20):
what we were doing with eachother.
The time pressure, is alwaysthere, but you have these people
with you, that you trust and youhave a relationship with, and
that really helps immensely.
Because that's your question,right, is, is how do you handle
that pressure?

Paul (25:36):
Yeah, and I heard you say your teammates.

Raymond (25:38):
And teammates, and trusting in that.
And having that give and take.
And not being afraid if somebodymakes a suggestion.
And I've always prided myself onthis.
I'm looking at this thing And myfriend who's my video guy would
say, well what about this?
And I'd go, great idea.
So not be threatened by having,feeling like you have to be the

(25:59):
one that dictates everything.
You know, I always prided myselfon being open to suggestion.
If somebody had a better way todo it,

Paul (26:08):
hey, great.
Do you find that that is themindset on, something is.
Like a soap opera where time ismoney.
Everybody's in.

Raymond (26:17):
Absolutely.
I think so.
I think, you have a plan, you goto execute the plan.
And if somebody goes, Hey, whatif we did this?
You actually weigh that and beopen to it, because especially
in an ensemble situation,everybody has to contribute.
And then you rise to thatoccasion.
And that's when you say, Oh,that's not impossible.

(26:38):
We can do that.

Paul (26:39):
All right, so let's take a switch here.
Let's switch this up.
I'm sure some of our listenerswould love to hear of some type
of catastrophe that happenedwhile you were filming, over
your 40 year career.
I'm sure you have one thatstands out where, you know, it
was just a bloody day, right?

Raymond (26:56):
Well, let's see.
There were a lot ofcatastrophes, like anything, I
mean, lighting boards that godown, all that stuff, But that's
part of the preparation is justknowing that you have backups,
going in.

Paul (27:10):
I am curious for you about, as the senior lighting
director, you work all day andthen you create the scene at
night

Raymond (27:17):
for

Paul (27:17):
the next day and you come into stage A or B, wherever
you're filming.
And you are, you do it.
And I know you have a block withthe actors prior to, but I'm
wondering if when he ever wentlive to tape.
if you just were like, Oh no,this isn't going to work.
The lighting's off.
I need to readjust.
Did you ever just stop and say,okay, no, and try to convince

(27:37):
everybody to change it?

Raymond (27:39):
Oh, absolutely.
And, fortunately, because I wasusually really prepared.
I was trusted in that, when Isaw something had really gone
off the rails for some reason, Ihad the ability to say.
Wait a minute, we gotta fixthis.
There was one time, okay, sothere was one time, we'd shot a
scene, and, we were shooting, atthat point we were shooting not

(28:00):
just one episode, we wereshooting segments from other
episodes also.
And we were flying on this day.
And, we shot the scene and wegot into the next scene.
I thought, Oh, that was a dayscene.
And we just shot for night.
Right.
And so, yeah, I had to go overand I had to say, excuse me, we
have to go back and reshoot thisscene.

(28:21):
And of course there was a lotof, you know, what the fuck,
pardon me, but, you know, but, Iwas really respected for having
said, okay, This is notacceptable.
We have to fix this, and, thiswould happen to other people and
a lot of people, what they woulddo is they'd say, and I would
say my fault, I'm sorry, youknow, and a lot of people would
go, Oh no, he did it, that's hisfault or whatever.

(28:42):
And I always think big mistake,when it's actually something I'd
done, I always tookresponsibility for it, which I
think gave me credibilityalways.

Paul (28:53):
What about feedback?
I'm sure you've got lots offeedback.

Raymond (28:56):
Yeah.

Paul (28:57):
How do you handle feedback, especially from a
producer or director that, couldbe a thorn in your side?

Raymond (29:04):
Well, my feeling was always, I always did it to
satisfy me, right?
And if somebody said, and therewould be times we would shoot a
scene, a producer or directormight say, that was really
great.
And I would think, well, notreally, but okay.
But for me, the importantfeedback was how I felt about

(29:25):
it.
And if they agreed with me, Iwas thrilled.
And I always love to get, youknow, nobody likes to hear that,
that was just mediocre.
So I was pretty good aboutgetting good feedback, but if it
was good feedback and I didn'tagree with it, I would always
strive to do better.

Paul (29:42):
And so when you receive feedback, what I heard you just
say is you check in withyourself.

Raymond (29:47):
Exactly.
To see if it

Paul (29:48):
resonates.
That's a nice

Raymond (29:50):
way to say, yeah, that's a much better way to say
what I just said.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Paul (29:54):
Well, you check in and validate for yourself.
Exactly.

Raymond (29:57):
Exactly.

Paul (29:58):
You know, there's this storyline that goes on all day
long at work.
How did you learn to, when youdrove home, Release the
storyline because you just shotthe scenes.
You've got a light for the nextday.
You've got to understand some ofwhat's in the script.
How did you learn to release thestoryline so you can enjoy your
evenings and be present with

Raymond (30:21):
Well, I wasn't always capable of doing that, not every
day, but certainly, that had theadvantage, I guess, in some ways
that, we were doing, five shows,a week or seven shows a week or
however many we were actuallyshooting.
And, you give it, you do yourbest on it, you give it your
best shot, and then you have towalk away because you have to go

(30:44):
to the next day, you have to goto the next show, and you have
to get the next story.
And so, It's not that you don'treflect and you, I look at it as
a learning situation.
If it doesn't go, if thingsdon't go well, it's a tremendous
learning situation because youfind, you go, Oh, wait a minute.
there's another way to do this.
And tomorrow I'm going to dothat other way.
So instead of beating myself up,if I felt like I didn't beat my

(31:08):
expectations.
I took that as a way to improve.
Really, and to get better,because I think the mistake
people make is that when theythink they know everything, and
they think they've got it down,and there's no better way to do
it than the way I do it, rightnow, because then you're dead, I
think, because there's alwayssomewhere you can improve,
there's always some lesson tolearn in everything you do, and,

(31:32):
you're a fool if you don't learnthat lesson, and you're a fool
if you just put it on auto, andhit the button and go, and, I
think

Paul (31:40):
the greatest lesson has been that the show gave you.
Life lesson.
What's the greatest life lessonyou learned about yourself
working on that show?

Raymond (31:50):
Well, I think the greatest life lesson was That
anything is possible and thatI'm capable of doing this work.
I'm capable of doing, whatever Iset my mind to.
And I don't need affirmation ona daily basis to feel that way
about myself.

(32:12):
I have that sense instilled inme.
If I don't know how to dosomething, I can learn how to do
it and I can master that.
And there's no challenge that Ican't meet.

Paul (32:24):
You think that same narrative is true for everyone?

Raymond (32:27):
Yes, I do.
I think, if you stay outwardlyfocused and if you pay attention
and if you have passion aboutthings, and you have curiosity,
Curiosity is huge.
I think it's true about anythingand anybody.
The people that, I would havepeople come in and work for me,
that would bounce in, bounceout, different, electricians say

(32:49):
and you could always spot theones that were curious and you
could always spot the ones thatyou tell them how to do
something and they go over andthey do it and maybe improve on
it and, and you go, okay, thisperson's thinking, this person's
outwardly focused, this person'snot thinking about, well, what
am I going to have for dinnertonight?
And God, I got to get out ofhere.
What time's lunch, so I wasalways impressed by the person

(33:11):
that walked in and came withcommitment and was right there
and was focused.
And to me, that's, it's soobvious as I get older,
especially you meet somebody andyou see it in them.
Well, the way they look at you,the way they listen.
And I think that going back towhat I would talk to a young
person about, that's what Iwould probably say.

Paul (33:30):
There's a through line of be willing, be focused, know
that anything is possible, andbe curious.

Raymond (33:37):
Yeah, and passionate.
I take it beyond curiosity intobeing passionate about being
curious.

Paul (33:43):
So there you are, 40 years at CBS, 10 Emmys.
I can imagine the decision tosay, okay, I'm done was not
easy.
How did you know, okay, you knowwhat?
I'm ready for a new chapterbecause that is a legacy that
not many people achieve.

Raymond (34:04):
Yeah, I think, they're working.
A couple things that contributedto that, well, certainly, I had
a very dear friend, Paul Tripp,who I talked to when I was
approaching retirement, whotalked me through a lot of
things, and gave me a greatperspective.
But also, I had just worked withperhaps the most, creatively

(34:25):
demanding producer, that hadever been on the show.
And then, so the show wasreturning back to a producer
that, and he had, pushed theboundaries on things in some
ways that were inappropriateperhaps, to what the show was.
But every day was a challengewith him, right?
And which, we all met And thenhe was gone, and we had a

(34:46):
producer we'd had for a longtime who I really liked a lot.
But the show, I could tell, wasgoing to go back.
Now they were gonna, they hadspent a lot of money, and now
they were gonna pull back oneverything.
And it was gonna become like a,more of a machine and the
challenges were gonna be farfewer.
And I thought two things.
So that's one part of it, and Ithought, wow.

(35:08):
we're going to undo some of thethings that I thought really
worked and we're going to alsoundo some of the things that
were annoying, but we're goingto go back to something that's
going to be much more of aroutine kind of a day.
And then, the video guy that Ihad spoken of earlier had
pancreatic cancer and it turnsout that he died and he'd asked

(35:29):
me to be the trustee for hiskids.
So all of a sudden I had thischallenge that, was something I
didn't know anything about.
And as I learned more about it,I realized I had been insane to
say yes, but I said yes, I madea commitment.
So, I realized that, I couldn'twork 12 or 16 hours a day and
pull off what I needed to pulloff to get his estate in order.
So between that and the factthat I knew that we were going

(35:51):
to go into these incrediblycalm, unchallenging seas, that I
decided that that really pushedme over the top.
And also I was at the magic age,you know, on my 65th birthday, I
thought, well, I can do this.
And then, like I said, youcoached me a little bit on that.
A lot on that, and that made ahuge difference.

(36:12):
So, that's what pushed me overthe top.
And I look now at the challengeof, being a trustee under
circumstances that I wentthrough.
And that's possibly the mostchallenging thing I ever did,
because it's not something Iwould have ever sought out.
But I feel like I really didwhat I needed to do, and I
couldn't do it working the hoursthat I worked.

Paul (36:35):
I was ready.

Raymond (36:35):
I guess I was ready.
I was done.

Paul (36:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The pivot back, another pivot.
You know, I heard you say, I'mready for something else.
Yeah.
I don't want to take that pivot.

Raymond (36:46):
Yeah.
Not to go back to boring.

Paul (36:48):
Let's have a moment of truth.
Did you always know the script?

Raymond (36:52):
Ah, yeah, I made it a point to read it.
In the beginning, when I didknow the importance, I didn't.
But I always did read it,

Paul (36:58):
so you always knew the storyline?

Raymond (37:00):
Absolutely.

Paul (37:01):
And how much of the show have you watched since you
retired?

Raymond (37:05):
Oh, I watched one show that was a tribute to my friend
who dedicated the show to himthat died, the video operator.
I found it difficult to watchjust because, I didn't
particularly care for thedirection the look of the show
went.
My partner that was on the show,was still lighting, but, because
I had a partner, but there was anew person in and I just didn't,

(37:26):
I thought it didn't look goodand it was hard to watch
because, it makes you want to goback there and I didn't want to
go back there.

Paul (37:33):
I really appreciate your willingness.
I love the through lines thatyou've given us, you know,
focus.
Anything's possible.
Passionate curiosity.
Be willing.
You've repeated that now a fewtimes.

Raymond (37:46):
Yeah.
Well, I have to say, I love itthat you asked me to do this.
And I love that I got to thinkabout all this a little bit,
because this is all stuff that,you know, but it's fun to think
about the why and the how of allof it, that's something I love,
you know?
And, um, so this has been areally enjoyable experience to
do this.

Paul (38:06):
Thank you so much for your time.
You're very welcome.
Thanks for your time, really.
It is truly my honor to be ableto talk to you and, and uh, just
hear some more.
Well,

Raymond (38:17):
thank you.
Thank you very much.
This is fun.
Okay.
Great.

Paul (38:27):
Be willing, focus, have passionate curiosity, and know
that anything is possible.
I think Raymond's words ofwisdom apply both on and off the
soundstage.
Thank you so much for joining uson this episode of Courageous
Conversations.
I hope you found today'sdiscussion as inspiring and
thought provoking as I did.

(38:47):
And a special thank you to myguest, Raymond Thompson, for
sharing his journey andinsights.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, leave
a review, or share it withsomeone who could benefit from
this conversation.
We've got some exciting guestslined up in our next episode.
So make sure to tune in as youdon't want to miss it until
then.
Stay curious, stay courageous,and keep the conversations in

(39:10):
your life flowing.