June 3, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of Courageous Conversations, Chief Venezio shares what it means to lead with integrity, clarity, and mission-first thinking in one of the most high-pressure professions. From navigating public scrutiny to building trust inside the force, he opens up about the power of honest feedback, the importance of mental wellness, and why leadership isn’t about having all the answers — it’s about doing what’s right, even when it’s hard.
Whether you’re leading a team or navigating your own growth, this conversation is a powerful reminder: the mission must come first — and leadership without compassion isn’t leadership at all.
This episode is brought to you by AceUp and Produced and Edited by Buttered Toast.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Tripp | MCC (00:06):
Welcome to Courageous Conversations where
we dive deep intotransformational journeys and
powerful moments of change.
Today I wanna ask you, whatassumptions do you make when you
think of a police officer?
Do you picture someone hardenedby years of service, distant or
unapproachable?
Well, our guest today is goingto change that narrative.
We're joined by Chief Ezio, achief of police who defies the
(00:30):
conventional image of what youmight think it means to be in
law enforcement.
Chief CIO's journey is one ofservice, dedication, and a
commitment to honest feedback.
In this episode, we'll explorehow he balances the weight of
authority with compassion, howhe approaches the mental health
of his officers, and how henavigates the assumptions people
(00:51):
often make about the policeforce.
His leadership style isn't aboutrigid control.
It's about collaboration,resilience, and creating a
culture of care within hispolice force.
So as you listen, consider yourown role.
How do assumptions about yourwork or leadership hold you
back?
What can you learn from ChiefEzio about the importance of
staying true to yourorganization's mission, while
(01:13):
adapting to change?
Whether you're managing a teamor just trying to be a more
effective leader in your ownlife, this episode will
challenge how you think aboutservice, feedback, and personal
growth.
According to my watch, it's timefor a courageous conversation.
(01:33):
Chief Venio, welcome toCourageous Conversations.
Thank you for having me.
You bet.
As you know, every leader'sjourney has roots, and
understanding these roots reallygives us insight into the person
and leader you've become.
So to start, I'd like to askyou, what are you a product of?
Jordan (01:52):
Oh boy, that's a tough first question.
I think I'm a product of I'm,I'm just a small town kid from
Montana, and that has reallyallowed me to relate to people
that go through some of thestruggles that I.
I have to deal with in my careerand my profession, and it has
allowed me to understand wheresome people are coming from and
(02:15):
the challenges that they gothrough and build some trust as
I've worked through my career inlaw enforcement.
Paul Tripp | MCC (02:23):
How do you think the small town has
contributed to the fact thatyou've been able to elevate up
through leadership ranks?
Jordan (02:31):
I think you learn more of challenges outside your home
because it's such a small town.
So I've been able to be exposedto a lot of the different
difficulties that a typicalperson will face throughout my
life, and it has really allowedme to just understand those
people a little more.
And when you understand thepeople that you deal with in
(02:52):
your job, I think you find moresuccess in navigating those
challenges with them.
Paul Tripp | MCC (02:57):
So you gave us an example there of how you've
been able to relate to people,but I wonder how has the small
town experience allowed you tounderstand this is who I am and
this is what I want for my life?
Jordan (03:13):
I didn't really understand what I wanted for my
life until I was a little bitolder.
And growing up in a small town,I don't know that I really had
clear direction of, of where Iwas headed at a young age.
But the second that I got intothis profession of law
enforcement and I, I describe itas discovering purpose for the
first time in my life, it reallyallowed me to see, clearly the
(03:36):
path that I wanted to go down.
And it, it was a littlebackwards for me because I
really found it after I joinedthe profession.
And I never felt that before,but.
Things in my past became clearto me as I saw that purpose and
as I move forward in myprofession.
Paul Tripp | MCC (03:51):
I can imagine there are people listening who
may be younger and who mightthink, gosh, I don't know what
I'm gonna do with my life.
I'm not sure where I'm gonna go.
Nothing's really making senseright now.
What would you say to that?
Jordan (04:04):
I think that if you put yourself out there and you try
for different things, you know.
When it's meant for you, youfeel when what you're doing is
right and that it's somethingthat you want to continue doing
for the rest of your life.
I think the challenge is justgetting exposure, putting
yourself out there, surroundingyourself with people who want to
(04:25):
do good things, who want tobetter themselves.
And as your life takes youdifferent directions, I think
that you will discover whateverthat
Paul Tripp | MCC (04:31):
purpose is for you.
So what clicked for you?
How did you know?
For me, it was that feeling ofhelping someone, the feeling
that I got when
Jordan (04:45):
as a police officer, you go to work and you really don't
know what the day holds, but youhave these encounters where you
can feel that you made thedifference in connecting with
that person that day.
Our job is challenging the senseof not everybody we deal with
believes we're helping them.
A significant amount.
Do not believe that.
But it allows us, if we reallystick to this mindset of being
(05:07):
helpers and being servants inthis profession, you should have
no doubt at the end of a careerof all the positive things you
did and all the impacts you madeon people.
Paul Tripp | MCC (05:17):
I wasn't gonna go here, but now that you
brought this up, I am gonna gohere.
Sure.
I know you to be a kind man, andI'm curious, you've been in the
police department for many yearsand there's a perception that as
police officers, sometimespolice officers can become jaded
and angry.
And you just said that sometimespeople don't see you as a helper
(05:41):
to them or as wanting to help.
How have you been able tomaintain a mindset of, oh,
right.
I don't wanna be an asshole.
Right.
I'm not gonna let the job jademe and I'm going to keep a
mindset of helping.
Jordan (05:56):
I think it's who I've surrounded myself with in my
life, and I've really focused onfamily, friends, not only in the
law enforcement profession.
Because that perception and whatyou see happen in law
enforcement over the years, it'sa real challenge.
It's trauma on police officersis what happens to them.
And they, the exposure day afterday after day, that's not dealt
(06:18):
with internally with policeofficers.
They develop a very jaded senseof the world, and it's up to us
in leadership.
As we move forward in thisprofession to implement ways to
make sure that doesn't happen.
So for me personally, I saw itearly.
I saw personalities of people.
I'm close with changing, and Iknew it was because of the job,
(06:41):
but I also got into theprofession at a time where.
Officer wellness and taking careof ourselves was starting to be
pushed.
So early on, I was told by mybosses that you need to watch
for these things.
Some of the generations beforeme, which I think we've really
seen some of the impacts in thislast decade or two.
Not only were they not exposedto taking care of themselves,
(07:04):
they were told to suppress itand to not talk about these
things that they're seeing.
I think you'll see a drasticchange in direction.
For the wellness of policeofficers as we move forward as a
country.
Paul Tripp | MCC (07:16):
So how are you addressing mental health within
the police force?
Jordan (07:19):
I've assigned an officer, wellness coordinator.
This is an officer that helpsbuild policy and implement
protocols for ensuring that ourpolice officers are taken care
of and they report to me.
There is confidentiality builtwithin it, but they report to me
on the direction of the program,the success of the program so
(07:40):
that I can ensure it's beingutilized and adjust if I need
to.
For example, if I hear that.
This specific policy is notbeing used because there's
language in it that officersfear.
It's not going to beconfidential.
I can look at that.
I can see where they're comingfrom, and then I can look at is
(08:00):
it a law that required me tohave the policy that way, or can
I change verbiage?
Can I make sure there's trust inthe program to ensure success?
Paul Tripp | MCC (08:09):
Hmm.
You raised a point aboutofficers being engaged and
feeling safe and their mentalhealth being taken care of, and
I know a lot of corporations outthere are struggling with
retention.
How does the organization meetthe remit of what they need to
do operationally and ensure thatthe person is taken care of and,
and they feel seen and heard andnurtured on the job?
(08:33):
How do you do it in the policeforce?
I
Jordan (08:36):
think it's staying clear with the messaging of what our
purpose is, what our mission isright up front.
When someone becomes a policeofficer, we need to make clear
that the first thing that weprioritize at our police
department is the mission ofserving the community.
And that has to come first.
It has to always come first, butin that same message, we need to
make clear that the employee andthose actually doing the work
(08:58):
are going to be taken care of.
Consistency in how we moveforward as a police department,
I think is very important andtrust to ensure the decisions
that are gonna be made.
They know they're coming from agood place and they know they're
consistent and not all over theplace and how we make decisions,
and they always go back to themission of what is best for the
community that we serve.
Paul Tripp | MCC (09:21):
So you have clear communication.
You have consistentcommunication.
You have both of those tied tothe mission and the vision of
what you're doing.
And what else do you offeremployees or how do you partner
with employees to ensure thatthey feel like, ah, I am a part
of the mission?
Jordan (09:39):
So small things that I do is I really try to engage, I
work within a collectivebargaining agreement, right?
My employees are part of a unionthat I have to engage with
consistently, although I.
Sometimes we have differentviewpoints of the direction we
need to go.
I make sure I pull them intodecisions that even if I didn't
(10:00):
specifically need their buy-infor it, if I identify this as a
big change, that I need thatsupport.
I'm going to slow down thatdecision for a few months.
I'm gonna engage with them toreally make them feel that.
For one, we have this problemthat we can both agree on, we
need a solution for, and then wework together on finding out
(10:21):
what that is.
An example of that right now isI'm working with our union on
mandatory overtime rotations.
So one thing you're seeing inlaw enforcement is as we have
pushed officer wellness and takecare of yourself and spend time
with your family, that hasresulted in, yeah, I'll pass on
that overtime shift, which isRight.
That makes sense.
(10:43):
If we put the mission first andwe say, I understand you like
your time off, and that'simportant.
However, if the mission is notbeing met because we have these
overtime needs.
We need to address that.
And so what is the best way thatwe can do that together to make
sure that it's fair, it'sequitable, and it's not always
just the brand new officer thathas lowest seniority that we are
(11:05):
ordering to work these overtimeshifts.
'cause they will get burned outand then we will have retention
issues.
And everything will start tocompound.
So that's something I'm goingthrough right now and something
I really believe in is buy-inand support within our employee
unions as well to make sure weboth know the direction we're
heading and how we're gonna getthere.
Paul Tripp | MCC (11:26):
So you raised an interesting point about how
you have taken a tact ofengaging people, slowing down
the process and invitingconversation, and often leaders
think that means I'm submissiveand I'm not making a decision,
therefore I'm giving up some ofmy authority.
How have you.
Play that out in your mind,what's the risk benefit analysis
(11:47):
there for you of, I'm stillkeeping my authority, but I'm
inviting them in?
Jordan (11:51):
Well, I learned early on that I was not the smartest guy
in the room quite often, but Igot pretty effective at finding
those people and making surethat I surrounded myself with
people that had good ideas thatwould be successful.
And I think leaders who takethat approach of, I always have
to know the answer, I think yourapidly lose credibility.
When you take that stance,because common sense says you
(12:14):
are not always the guy thatknows the answer, but when your
employees know that you are theguy who's gonna take time and
find the best answer available,they automatically, there's some
built in trust and credibilitywith how you approach things.
But to be fair, in the end, I amthe decision maker and I am
accountable for those decisions.
(12:35):
So.
In those discussions and in thatapproach that I take, it's
obvious to me that we are noteven close on the same page with
what needs to be met andaccomplished.
I do have to make those harderdecisions.
Paul Tripp | MCC (12:50):
Hmm.
So there are times when you'recollaborative and times where
you know, Hey, I need to makethis final decision.
Jordan (12:57):
Yeah.
Sometimes we don't have time towork together on it.
A decision has to be made andI'm going to make it.
But when time allows and whenthe situation allows, I don't
think there's ever any harm ofcollaboration.
Paul Tripp | MCC (13:09):
So we started off by you referencing, you grew
up in a small town and whereyou're the chief of police.
It is changing dramaticallybecause lots of people are
moving into the state and it'sbecoming more complex.
And you also stated that you'velearned to surround yourself
with people that you trust.
And the question I have isyou've been in this de Police
(13:30):
department for several years andyou've moved up from the junior
rank to now the chief.
You've had to probably navigateclose personal relationships,
and when you've been promotedover time and now you're the
chief, how have you been able tohold the standard of, oh gee,
I'm the chief now, and eventhough I had a relationship with
you in this role, I'm now theboss and now we need to do
(13:52):
things differently?
Jordan (13:54):
Well, for me personally, I have only become close with
people who, it goes back to thatmission first, so at work.
I have surrounded myself withpeople that I care deeply about
that have the understanding andthe mindset that as law
enforcement officers, themission has to come before
anything else.
And that has been clearthroughout my career, whether
(14:16):
it's a brand new police officeror as the police chief.
So when I have encountered timeswhere I've had to redirect or
discipline people that I caredeeply about, it has gone so
much smoother because theexpectation from them, they
know.
Well, that's going to be becausethey know who I am and they know
what's out of good intentionsand necessity of when you work
(14:40):
in public service and you workin a job that is supposed to be
for the people.
That has to come before myfriendship with you, and I've
always taken the approach of ifI do that and that conflict
results in someone not wantingto be on a personal level with
me, there's nothing I can doabout it.
Paul Tripp | MCC (15:01):
Have you always led with a mission first
mindset?
Jordan (15:06):
I wouldn't say always.
I will say that a few years intomy career, somebody actually
bought me a book and it wascalled The Mission to Men and
Me, and it really correlatedmostly to military background,
but it was someone's approach toleadership of the mission always
has to come first.
After that, you have to considerthe men and women actually doing
(15:28):
the job, right?
But never at the expense of usaccomplishing our mission.
And then lastly, if I don't takecare of myself and if I'm not
right and well to lead, then wewon't be successful.
And that book was really thefirst intriguing literature that
I started looking at leadershipin a, in an educational way.
(15:50):
Like there almost like there's ascience to this.
There's way you can approachleadership.
It's not.
I think some of it's natural,but a lot of it is learned.
Leadership can be learned, and Ithink that's important.
Paul Tripp | MCC (16:00):
You have officers or people on your team
where the friendship comesfirst.
Often in corporate Americawanting to be someone's friend
or wanting to be knowing abouttheir personal life and their
professional life.
There's this mindset of, then itmakes us a stronger team.
Mm-hmm.
What would you say to that?
Jordan (16:20):
We're a little bit unique because I have no
requirement of building aprofit.
It's very internal, themotivation for law enforcement,
but even if you're in privatebusiness and you have a profit
outcome, whatever your missionis, whatever you're building, if
that is not at the top of everydecision you make, at some point
it's gonna rear its head andit's gonna cause issues.
Paul Tripp | MCC (16:41):
Hmm, interesting.
What was the most pivotal momentthat required you to rethink
your approach to leadership?
Jordan (16:50):
Early on, I had identified people in my
profession that I knew to beextremely technically competent.
They knew all the laws, theyunderstood how to manage crime
scenes rapidly.
They were quick thinking and Ilooked at them as, you know,
someone to focus on of, okay,look.
Look at this person, howsuccessful they are with that.
(17:12):
Then I watched them take on someleadership roles, and their
technical competence was not metwith trustworthiness or
credibility, and they flounderedthey could not find success.
Even though by the book, theywere probably the most competent
people in our job.
It led me to view leadership asif I have to have a foundation
(17:35):
of leadership, it's going to betrustworthiness and credibility.
And even if I am not the personthat knows every answer, they
know that I'm gonna find thatperson and they know that
they're gonna believe in myintentions.
And from there, if you startwith that foundation of
credibility and trustworthinessand you are technically
competent, you will find wildsuccess in leadership.
(17:57):
However, if you're technicallycompetent, but that's on top of
a foundation ofuntrustworthiness self-serving,
it will crumble.
At some point, I think you canget away with, I.
Not being perfect when you havethat because you will not be
perfect in leadership.
But if you're not perfect andpeople believe in you, you're
gonna get through it a loteasier.
Paul Tripp | MCC (18:20):
So let me challenge that for a minute.
Trustworthiness and credibility.
There are, I'm sure times inyour career where there are gray
areas where you are required todo something that is not going
to be perceived as popular, orthe troops aren't gonna buy in,
right?
The police force isn't gonna buyin to what it is you have to do
or say.
(18:41):
How do you navigate thosesituations?
Well, when I saytrustworthiness, I don't mean
Jordan (18:50):
that people will always agree with my decision.
I say when I say trustworthy, Imean people know that my
decision is not self-serving.
People know that I'm not onlylooking out for myself when I
make these decisions becausethat's what I always do, right?
And they believe that.
So no matter if I make the bestdecision in the world.
They're kind of side eye itbecause this guy always does
(19:11):
this.
So when I say trustworthiness, Idon't mean that they always
agree with it.
I mean, they know where it'scoming from and they know the
intention behind it.
And me as a person they believeis not going to intentionally
try to harm them at my ownbenefit.
Paul Tripp | MCC (19:28):
Let me ask you about, after you took over this
role as chief of Police, you hadto implement changes.
You had a critical assessment ofyour organization, right?
You brought in an outside agencywho did an assessment of your
organization.
How did you navigate theinternal resistance and help
your team understand, oh, thisis what we need to do because
you're just the new guy.
Jordan (19:48):
The first thing we had to make clear is if we're going
to have an outside assessment.
We're going to have somebodythird party come in and look at
the ins and outs of our policedepartment.
We need to be prepared to answerquestions and be responsive to
some of those.
So that means we can't cherrypick the things that we think
are beneficial for us, and thenignore the things that shine bad
(20:10):
light on us.
We have to look at both.
So when we get somebody from theoutside saying, Hey, you do
these things really well, butthese other 10 things are a big
concern.
We have to be able to embraceboth of those and face it head
on.
And we worked with our employeesas we went through these
assessments to make sure thatthey also understood that this
(20:32):
was a kind of an all in approachto having this company come in
and look at it.
We're not just having anassessment that says you need to
increase your police departmentby 20%, and we're gonna just put
that in the newspaper every daythat we're short staffed and
we're gonna ignore fact that.
We're failing with technologyand we have some protocols that
are not best practices thatwe've been implementing.
(20:54):
We don't have good tracking forofficer standards or use of
force or complaints.
We're failing in those areas.
We had to really embrace thatand look at the community and
say, here it is.
Here's everything we want tobetter.
We want to address these things,and here's our path that we
think we can do it with.
Paul Tripp | MCC (21:16):
How do you navigate the fact that you are a
public figure?
You're gonna be in the newspaperif you do one wrong thing,
right?
And you also have to make toughdecisions because you have a
very public role.
Jordan (21:28):
I try to really remove emotion out of all my decisions,
and I guess I'd refer to asleading through truth and
whatever that is.
I guess multiple people havedifferent truths sometimes, but
lead through my truth, somethingthat I can stand on.
And say, here's the reasons whyI make these decisions.
But it is a challenge for me.
(21:48):
I'm not wildly comfortable withmedia and being out there in the
public a lot.
I don't enjoy it.
It's not my favorite part of thejob, but I know it's necessary
for me, so I fake it the best Ican.
Paul Tripp | MCC (21:59):
Are you faking it here?
Are you enjoying this littlemedia opportunity?
You know, I am enjoying this.
I am.
It's a good conversation.
You say lead with truth and.
Often, leaders are scared tolead with truth because they
feel it will alienate or offend.
How do you deal with speakingyour truth and not offending
(22:20):
people?
Jordan (22:22):
I don't really worry about offending people.
I think if you put too mucheffort in not offending people,
you become ineffective.
But I also understand there'scertain things that there's no
place for a police chief to talkabout or consider politics.
I'm not a political electedofficial.
I'm a police chief.
I'm a police chief for everycitizen in my city.
(22:42):
So of course I'm going to avoidpolitical hot buttons.
I'm smart enough to do that, butalso I don't, if the facts and
the data support certainactions, I'm not gonna put a
whole lot of stress on that.
Someone might be offended by.
Sometimes people are offended byanything.
Paul Tripp | MCC (23:03):
Okay.
So you lead with your truth,what you think is your truth.
I do.
Okay.
Has that ever gotten you intotrouble?
Not yet.
I try to be pretty rational.
Jordan (23:16):
I try to always see multiple sides of things.
Even if I land on one or theother, I always understand where
other people are coming from, ifwe can have conversations about
it.
I, I think as a police chief,there's certain things that
there's just no place in havingconversations and approach My
job as being everyone's chief ofpolice, we serve everyone in our
community, and that's really theonly way to approach it from a
(23:39):
police chief perspective.
Paul Tripp | MCC (23:41):
So it seems like you have a lot of personal
growth and personal growth, asyou know, plays a critical role
in leadership development.
Can you describe a moment when apersonal challenge significantly
impacted how you lead and howthat informed your professional
growth?
Jordan (23:58):
Over my last 15 years in law enforcement, I had.
A significant amount of my timewas on patrol and also on the
SWAT team, and it led tomultiple critical incidents that
are challenging to navigate inlaw enforcement.
And as I had those incidentsoccur, you look at how your
bosses handle that, and I cansee what their approach was to
(24:22):
some of these incidents.
And I will say that mine did apretty good job.
I never felt that I wasn'tsupported, but I felt the
weight.
Of what they said, and I feltthe impact and the magnitude of
the words that leadership cansay in those moments, and you
only get one shot at it.
There's no redos.
If something tragic hasoccurred, something hard has
(24:44):
occurred, and you have thatinteraction, you cannot hit
rewind.
How you handle that in themoment.
Quickly is going to be foreveringrained on these people that
you care about and that are youremployees and that you need to
continue to be well and continueto serve.
And so as, as I looked at thatand I really in the moment, you
(25:08):
have to put your own concernsaside because as a police chief,
when there's a criticalincident, of course I care about
the employee and that it shouldbe always the first thought.
I also have a lot of otherthoughts that I have to
consider.
What will the political falloutbe of this?
I, I don't have a lot ofinformation right now.
(25:28):
I hope everything was good.
I hope this was legitimate, andyou cannot let those worries be
your first approach.
You can't.
There's time for that.
Learn what happened.
Get information that has to besecondary saving.
My job has to come second tothat because.
(25:49):
Of the time.
Everything is gonna be okay.
Everything is gonna be allright.
Slow down, take care of yourpeople, look at all the
information you have, and thenrespond to the other stuff if
you have to.
Paul Tripp | MCC (26:01):
So in a crisis situation, your first concern is
your people.
Jordan (26:07):
First concern is the mission, making sure the mission
was accomplished, but I know theimpact of some of these critical
incidents on our employees andtheir career ending.
If they're handled poorly, theyend their careers and it is
vital for leadership tounderstand that.
And of course, we have to dowhat's right.
(26:28):
Sometimes things that ouremployees do is not the right
thing, and we'll have to addressthat.
But I think in the moments youneed to show that you understand
the challenge, you understandthe difficulties and the things
that they're going through.
And identify the clear path ofwhat's next, how we're gonna
process this and move forwardfor them so that they understand
(26:48):
it.
And so we provide training toour supervisors in this area and
make sure that it's handled theright way.
And fortunately, these incidentsaren't every day, but they're
more frequent than ever and wehave to get it right.
Paul Tripp | MCC (27:02):
Just as I listen to you talk, you sound
like a very rational, selfevolved leader, and yet when I
open up the news, there's allkinds of stories about police
and shootings and all kinds ofshenanigans that have happened,
and I'm wondering from yourperspective, what do you think
is a misperception that thepublic doesn't know about what
(27:24):
it is you do
Jordan (27:25):
and represent?
I think that the publicunderstand law enforcement's a
challenging job.
I think most the public.
We'll say that I don't thinkthat they fully grasp the
moments that these policeofficers have to go through.
I don't think they grasp thetragedy that they see every day.
That's shaping their thoughts.
That's shaping their decisions.
(27:45):
I don't think they fully graspthat, and that's the way it
should be.
That's why we have policeofficers.
We have police officers that aresupposed to take this on.
For the community and for ourcitizens.
I think there's obviouslypolitics, media, all these
things that come into play, butalso sometimes we do just make
mistakes and we do hire thewrong people or we do things
(28:07):
wrong.
I think the scale of how oftenthat happens, even though one is
too much, the scale of how oftenit happens is skewed, right?
There are billions of policeinteractions with citizens in
the United States every year.
Billions.
Everything we do is recorded,and you will find a handful of
(28:27):
awful videos out there, out ofbillions, and people are looking
for'em every day.
They're looking for thesevideos.
They're looking for us to make amistake.
But I know part of finding thatpurpose for me was I was
surrounded by people that Icould see had the same purpose.
They're selfless.
(28:48):
They put themselves in harm'sway.
They sacrifice their familytime, their own wellbeing.
And when I, when you know thatand when you grow up in that,
you, you really see the power inthis profession and the
selflessness and you hold thosepeople in such a high regard
(29:08):
because of what you've gonethrough with them.
I know you an experience inmilitary and it's probably very
to.
The things that you do withthese people, no one else will
relate to you, no one elseunderstands, and so you start to
really lean into that.
Paul Tripp | MCC (29:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Shared commonality.
Yeah.
Well, as you're talking, I'mthinking about resilience and
I'm wondering how do youcultivate resilience, both
personally, for yourself andprofessionally to help the focus
and drive continue?
Jordan (29:41):
Resilience, I think is one of the most critical things
that we are growing in lawenforcement.
Understanding the challengesthat you're going to face,
having systems of support andgrowth set up in our profession
to come out of those.
Okay.
But then at the same time,having systems set up to
(30:01):
understand when you're not goingto be okay.
And as much as we try somethings our officers go through.
They may not ever findthemselves in a position that
they're okay to be a policeofficer again, and that's okay.
And that's not weakness at all.
That's kind of understandingyourselves and knowing that if I
don't leave this profession,we're not putting the mission
(30:22):
first, right?
I'm gonna leave it for peoplethat are able to continue doing
the job in the right way.
Paul Tripp | MCC (30:30):
So resilience is both about accepting the
circumstance, but also wherepeople are in their journey.
Some people might not be a fitforever.
Jordan (30:39):
Absolutely.
I'm really seeing that right nowas we hire people, more than
ever I'm seeing people with a,what I'd say is a servant's
heart.
It is so clear in the processthat they want to serve and they
want to help people, and theyhave this idea of law
enforcement is where I want tobe, but also at an increasing
(30:59):
rate.
I will say that the skillsetneeded to be a successful police
officer.
That mindset does not alwaysmatch.
So when we really focus onhiring for character, morality,
good people that wanna servemore and more often, we are
through the process and ourtraining program, we are letting
(31:21):
them go because that is notmatching with your ability to
respond to awful situations.
People screaming and yelling,and you have to make decisions
in five seconds and you're justnot capable.
So you have the intent and youhave the heart and the desire,
but you're not capable of doingthe job.
And that's okay too.
(31:42):
And I feel strongly as my roleas a police chief when I have
those people come in and theywant to do good.
I owe it to their families and Iowe it to them to reach that
decision and say, Hey, thisisn't for you.
I'm so grateful you'd want to dothis job.
There's other ways to help.
But your family deserves for youto come home every night, and
(32:03):
it's not looking like that wouldhappen.
Paul Tripp | MCC (32:06):
I was curious then why don't I ever get a
smile when they pull me over forspeeding?
It's always such serious, sir.
Roll down your window, right?
I don't know.
They should be smiling, right?
I need a smile.
Okay.
If I'm gonna get pulled over, Ineed a smile.
I.
Right.
You know, I wonder, you go to asituation, people are screaming
(32:27):
and yelling.
Sometimes it's domesticviolence.
I can't even imagine thescenarios that you all face.
Mm-hmm.
In your profession, how do youencourage officers to balance
servant heart, right?
Show up and be a leader thatwants to help with, holy shit,
I've got a real situation on myhands where people are getting
hurt or have been hurt.
Jordan (32:47):
How does that work?
We really train the need tostabilize situations before
anything.
So before you can be nice andbefore you can serve and help
and be officer, nice guy,everything's gotta be safe.
So your first approach toanything is safety, right?
So the officer not smiling on atraffic stop.
(33:08):
That actually made me think, wetalked about misperceptions,
right?
When someone gets pulled over bya police officer and they're in
a bad mood.
I would challenge people to say,and sometimes they're just
grumpy and they're not nicepeople and that's fine.
But also wonder what was therest of this officer's
Paul Tripp | MCC (33:24):
day like?
Maybe he's got nothing to smileabout, right?
Jordan (33:30):
Maybe there's nothing that he can put a smile on his
face for because of what he justleft five minutes ago, and he is
not able to fake it.
But that is a challenge for usin law enforcement to make every
contact feel like this is theonly thing that's going on.
While speeding may not be a bigdeal, the call that they just
left is a big deal and they arefinding a way through it in
(33:51):
their head as they have thishappen, and they also took the
time to stop and address that.
Just focusing on making sureeveryone's safe is first, and
then after everyone is safe, weproblem solve.
We find out what's going on.
We can show compassion, we canfind resources, but that can
never come before safety.
Paul Tripp | MCC (34:11):
Do you think that being a police officer, the
career that has longevity, or doyou feel like because of the TR
trauma and the PTSD that buildsup over time?
It's not a career people shouldstay in for 10 or 20 years?
You know, I've been asked thisbefore.
Do we see law enforcement movingto more
Jordan (34:32):
of a profession like the military, where generally you
have someone going for four orfive years and then they're out
and more people come in?
I think you have two verydifferent missions there in the
military capabilities versus lawenforcement.
Law enforcement.
We rely so heavily on trainingand experience and what people
(34:52):
learn long into this career.
I do think that the days of 35,40 year police officers are
gone.
If we truly prioritize wellnessand resilience in these things,
that's just not healthy.
For that to continue for solong.
But I don't think that weshould, nor will we see the
approach of, we just want a fewyears of law enforcement because
(35:15):
it takes five years to evenreally be effective in law
enforcement.
And from that difference, be theskill sets you get at five
years.
Now you're a detective, nowyou're looking at the most
important crime scenes in thesecases, and you need to rely on
skillset and experience to beeffective for that.
I think it would be a tragedyfor.
(35:36):
Our country and our communities,if we saw that little of
experience continually in thelaw enforcement profession.
Paul Tripp | MCC (35:44):
So when I think about cities, I once did a
ride along with a police officerin San Diego and saw two dead
people in one day, and I waslike, holy shit, I could never
do this job.
When you think about being apolice officer in a city versus.
Being a police officer.
You say small town and there'sfive different communities
surrounding in this mountainvalley.
(36:05):
What do you think the dynamicsare or the complexities are
between what you see and dealwith?
Because there's shoot offs thathappen here.
There's standoffs versus a city.
Jordan (36:17):
Yeah.
Well, we do know that ruralareas are the highest likelihood
of officer critical incidents.
So rural areas, smaller townsare the most likely spot for
police officers to be involvedin critical incidents and
shootings, not big cities.
And the reason that is, is theamount of law enforcement.
So when you work in a big city,there's so many law enforcement
(36:38):
officers around, we know thatreduces the likelihood of
somebody attacking a policeofficer or any type of critical
incident.
We know that there's differentchallenges.
Because we are smaller policedepartments for Montana.
My agency is one of the largerpolice departments in Montana.
But if you look at on a nationalscale, it's a midsize police
(36:58):
department.
I wanna say 90% of lawenforcement agencies in the
country are smaller than 20officers, 90%.
So the vast majority are smalldepartments.
We have different obligationsand responsibilities due to not
having as many officers.
(37:20):
So here you'll see policeofficers process crime scenes.
You'll see them follow up oncalls, maybe do more just
community engagement, gettingoutta their car, talking to
people in cities who will havespecialized teams that will
respond, make a scene safe,write people's names down,
submit it to another team forfollow up specialized evidence.
(37:42):
Teams that come in.
Way more secular in how theyapproach it.
I think what I love about a.
Is, it's very kind of a holisticapproach to law enforcement.
We get to do it all, see it all,and we become very competent in
a lot of areas.
Paul Tripp | MCC (38:00):
So what do you think was a major shift for you
and your career?
I know you went to the FBINational Academy and that was a
probably a perspective shift,but I'm wondering for you
specifically, just as you maybepersonally or something you
experienced professionally, whatwas a major pivot for you?
(38:20):
I don't know that I had aspecific incident that
Jordan (38:24):
caused a pivot for me.
I was able to get experience ina several different areas of our
department, so I was able towork a little bit as a school
resource officer with thecommunity, and I really
developed that sense ofcommunity engagement and the
importance that has in lawenforcement.
I got to work on a drug taskforce for a while and got to see
the darker side of.
(38:45):
I'll call the underworld of drugaddiction in that area.
Patrol.
I had a lot of experience onpatrol.
I got to ride a motorcycle unit,a traffic enforcement unit, the
SWAT team.
I've got to do a lot of stuff inlaw enforcement and
Paul Tripp | MCC (38:59):
really, I just developed such a sense of seeing
the value of our profession.
And
Jordan (39:09):
even though not everybody sees it, I believed in
it so much.
That I wanted to make sure thatI progressed and worked myself
into positions that I felt Icould help police officers be
more successful.
And that in turn, when we havesuccessful police officers,
healthy police officers, ourcommunity is gonna feel that
(39:30):
impact.
That is how you have a communitythat engages with law
enforcement is because our lawenforcement officers are well
and they have the tools theyneed to do their job.
They're healthy and.
That approach first, I think,gets you the community support
you need to be successful, andobviously at the top level of
(39:50):
law enforcement as a policechief that impact is greater.
Not that I do the work for thesuccess, but I get to support
the people that make itsuccessful, and I want him to be
that person.
Paul Tripp | MCC (40:04):
You know, what you just described was really a
leaning in through differentroles and different scenarios,
and I'm wondering for you now asthe chief, what are you leaning
into to grow?
What's next in terms of yourprofessional development?
Jordan (40:20):
I think where I'm at in my professional development is I
have a lot of change ahead formy police department.
We're hiring 10 new officers,about a 25% increase of our
staffing.
We're building a new evidencefacility.
We're remodeling our policedepartment.
We're integrating an entirelynew software system for our
police officers, for bodycameras, fleet less lethal
(40:43):
devices, just massive amounts ofchange.
I'm looking at hiring a crimeanalyst position.
Which will be a data or inteldriven approach for our police
officers.
So we're gonna have somebodyfull-time that is mining
information, getting us aseducated on what is happening in
our community as we can, andwe're using that information on
(41:07):
how we deliver our service, howwe enforce laws, where we
enforce laws, what is gonna bemost impactful.
And what I'm really learningwith this change is a couple
things.
Not all change is good.
If you do change wrong, it'sreally bad.
That is a big challenge for you.
So I'm really, I'm not gettingso focused on just the change.
(41:32):
I'm focusing on making sure it'sright and making sure it's at
the right pace, making sure it'sat a pace that our team can
handle the change.
Not putting too much at once.
So what does that look like?
Building out timelines, makingsure the right positions come
first, because sometimes youhire positions, but until this
other thing is done, it's notgonna be successful.
(41:54):
So we need to slow down.
And I'm blessed to be in aposition in a city that supports
its police department and wejust at one of the hardest times
ever in probably the country, toask people for more.
That's exactly what we did.
And we had a community thatoverwhelmingly said, we believe
(42:15):
in our police department andthey need more, and we're gonna
pay for that and we're gonnapass this safety levy.
Which really I will say was agenerational impact for public
safety in Kalis boat.
Massive impact.
And I owe it to the community tomake sure we do it right.
And sometimes that means slowingdown, taking a step back,
(42:35):
looking at everything that'shappening, and make sure that
our officers can be successfulin implementing it.
They understand the change, whywe're doing it, and how exactly
we're gonna get there when wemake these changes.
So it's really exciting.
Paul Tripp | MCC (42:49):
Hmm.
So when you think about you as aleader, leaders often have this,
a situation, a blind spot, uh,leadership quality that keeps
coming up over and over thatthey have to learn and relearn,
or they're like, oh God, thereit is again.
What's yours?
Jordan (43:06):
Well, that was mine.
Pushing too far ahead, too fast.
Always looking for next, alwayslooking for change.
And a, as I moved up that blindspot and that weakness for me
started to get magnified.
And sometimes you ignore itbecause you're just trying to do
good things, right?
(43:26):
You're just, I'm moving ahead.
If we're not changing, we'redying.
Well, sometimes change iscatastrophic and it kills you
'cause you did it the wrong way.
I, I've really been aware of itthe last several years.
The programs like the FBINational Academy, you're
surrounding yourself with thesmartest people in the room.
(43:46):
I always have people to lean onand contact
Paul Tripp | MCC (43:49):
and
Jordan (43:50):
ask questions and make sure that I am doing it the
right way.
And I also have a boss, a citymanager who supports that
approach rather than we pass apublic safety levy and we tell
the community that, Hey, we'regetting two detectives and a
crime analyst.
And it's like, Hey, let's getthat done.
We promised the community, Iwant the community to see the
(44:10):
success in it.
So if it's gonna take six moremonths.
It'll take six more months, butthen we're gonna do it right and
we're gonna see impact, and Ithink the community will support
that.
Paul Tripp | MCC (44:20):
So you raise an interesting conundrum because
if you're a leader who likes topush change, and if, if you're
not changing, you're dying inthe slowdown, how have you still
felt like, ah, I have control,it's going according to what I
need or want as a leader?
Jordan (44:36):
Yeah, I, I think it, it's just controlled change.
You're still seeing theprogress.
You're still looking at thesetimelines and events of how
we're gonna be doing thesethings.
One thing I say that naturallyhelps slowing down change is
government.
It is so slow with everything.
So while a business could moveforward quickly in weeks, the
(44:56):
things you have to do ingovernment for budgetary changes
and this stuff that I'm just nowlearning that I wasn't exposed
to has caused me to naturallyhave been forced to slow down
because I didn't have theability, because government's
slow.
But then I saw the benefit thatcame where I would've moved
faster.
(45:17):
Then because I'm forced to slowdown because I have these extra
steps I have to go through,maybe the situation changed a
little bit or maybe informationwas brought to my attention that
I wouldn't have caught if wemoved ahead too fast.
And I'm not talking aboutdragging your feet like you're
still moving forward, but do itwhen you have all the
information you need.
(45:38):
Do it when your people areprepared for the change, when
the infrastructure's capable ofthe change and.
The last thing you want is yourpeople to see you moving forward
with change and have it justfalling on its face because we
weren't prepared for it.
And so it was really a mindsetswitch for me of don't be so
focused on change, focus onchanging the things that
(46:00):
actually
Paul Tripp | MCC (46:01):
need to be changed and do it the right way.
Interesting.
And so what do you think yourleadership superpower is?
What have you realized?
Ah, that's my superpower.
Relatability.
Why relatability?
Jordan (46:17):
I try to really show people that I care about them.
I care about employees.
I, and I think that I see it inthe tough conversations I have
when I bring employees in fordisciplinary hearings or really
hard conversations, and they go,well, they understand what has
to happen.
(46:38):
They may not like it, but theytrust it.
They trust that.
Anybody that did what they didor was in a specific situation
would have the same impact, thesame result would happen.
I think sometimes people in myposition try to really separate
themselves completely fromeveryone else, and that does
(46:58):
reduce some stress in certainareas.
If I don't know you, I don'tcare about you.
You're just a number, you're abadge number.
That fills a seat for me.
I'm not gonna lose sleep.
On the hard things because Idon't even know you, but I can
tell you I do lose sleep and itdoesn't change my decision.
I still care about you, and I dochallenge myself in these
(47:23):
decisions to make sure it's theright decision.
I want to make sure that theyknow that they're not just a
number, they're not just abadge, and that there's trust
and relatability with me.
Paul Tripp | MCC (47:36):
I just wanna ask you two other questions,
really.
You just brought up relatabilityand having tough conversations,
and I know that having difficultconversations is difficult for a
lot of people because they thinkthey need to go in and they're
nervous, they're scared.
How do you navigate havingdifficult conversations?
What's the story in your head asyou go in to do it?
(47:58):
I separate humanity
Jordan (48:02):
and compassion and caring about people with.
I sound like a broken recordwith the mission, with things
that have to happen for ourdepartment to maintain
relationships with its communityand for us to be successful.
These things have to happen, butI can in the same breath tell
(48:22):
someone that they're terminatedand they can't be a police
officer, and I could give them ahug and care about them and hope
their family's okay.
My boss one.
He used to say a lot was hewould talk about mistakes of the
heart versus mistakes of themind, and being able to separate
the two things.
And so when I bring people intothe police department and we
(48:43):
hire'em, we have thatconversation of this is a hard
job and you're gonna make a lotof mistakes.
And there's mistakes of themind, which are errors.
You tried to do something, youdid it wrong.
We need to address that.
Mistakes of the heart are justgonna be morality, ethical
decisions.
You will not work here anymorewhen you do that.
(49:04):
And we do that on day one.
So the first meeting I have withthem, I welcome'em to the
department, talk aboutexpectations, standards, and
have that conversation.
And I've had people that havehad to either resign, they
would've been terminated, butthey have resigned and they have
(49:24):
come to talk to me and say, Idon't deserve to work with the
police department because I didthese things.
They know it.
They know that's the culture.
They know that's the standardand they know what to expect
with it.
It doesn't make it easier.
It doesn't mean I don't losesome sleep, right?
But I can separate someone as ahuman
Paul Tripp | MCC (49:45):
and someone at work and what has to be done
there.
What question didn't I ask youtoday that you'd like to answer?
Jordan (49:55):
You asked a lot of questions.
You know, I always enjoy talkingwith you and it's a good
conversation that I alwayschallenge myself when you ask
these questions because I don'tgive it a lot of thought as I
sit at my desk and work.
This allows me to really, I.
I think on some of these thingsand what my approach is, and I
always grow from it.
So I appreciate having theseconversations with you.
Paul Tripp | MCC (50:15):
Yeah.
Listen, I appreciate yourdedication to the community.
I am really happy and proud ofyou that you're the chief of
police for where we all live,and I want to thank you for your
time.
Jordan (50:27):
Thank you, Paul.
Paul Tripp | MCC (50:31):
Thank you so much for joining us on this
episode of CourageousConversations.
I hope you found today'sdiscussion as inspiring and
thought provoking as I did aspecial thank you to my guest,
chief Jordan Venicio, forsharing his journey and
insights.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, leave
a review and share it withsomebody who could benefit from
(50:52):
this conversation.
We've got some exciting guestslined up for our next episode,
so make sure to tune in.
You don't wanna miss it.
Until then, stay curious, staycourageous, and keep the
conversations in your lifeflowing.
Welcome to Courageous Conversations where
we dive deep intotransformational journeys and
powerful moments of change.
Today I wanna ask you, whatassumptions do you make when you
think of a police officer?
Do you picture someone hardenedby years of service, distant or
unapproachable?
Well, our guest today is goingto change that narrative.
We're joined by Chief Ezio, achief of police who defies the
(00:30):
conventional image of what youmight think it means to be in
law enforcement.
Chief CIO's journey is one ofservice, dedication, and a
commitment to honest feedback.
In this episode, we'll explorehow he balances the weight of
authority with compassion, howhe approaches the mental health
of his officers, and how henavigates the assumptions people
(00:51):
often make about the policeforce.
His leadership style isn't aboutrigid control.
It's about collaboration,resilience, and creating a
culture of care within hispolice force.
So as you listen, consider yourown role.
How do assumptions about yourwork or leadership hold you
back?
What can you learn from ChiefEzio about the importance of
staying true to yourorganization's mission, while
(01:13):
adapting to change?
Whether you're managing a teamor just trying to be a more
effective leader in your ownlife, this episode will
challenge how you think aboutservice, feedback, and personal
growth.
According to my watch, it's timefor a courageous conversation.
(01:33):
Chief Venio, welcome toCourageous Conversations.
Thank you for having me.
You bet.
As you know, every leader'sjourney has roots, and
understanding these roots reallygives us insight into the person
and leader you've become.
So to start, I'd like to askyou, what are you a product of?
Jordan (01:52):
Oh boy, that's a tough first question.
I think I'm a product of I'm,I'm just a small town kid from
Montana, and that has reallyallowed me to relate to people
that go through some of thestruggles that I.
I have to deal with in my careerand my profession, and it has
allowed me to understand wheresome people are coming from and
(02:15):
the challenges that they gothrough and build some trust as
I've worked through my career inlaw enforcement.
Paul Tripp | MCC (02:23):
How do you think the small town has
contributed to the fact thatyou've been able to elevate up
through leadership ranks?
Jordan (02:31):
I think you learn more of challenges outside your home
because it's such a small town.
So I've been able to be exposedto a lot of the different
difficulties that a typicalperson will face throughout my
life, and it has really allowedme to just understand those
people a little more.
And when you understand thepeople that you deal with in
(02:52):
your job, I think you find moresuccess in navigating those
challenges with them.
Paul Tripp | MCC (02:57):
So you gave us an example there of how you've
been able to relate to people,but I wonder how has the small
town experience allowed you tounderstand this is who I am and
this is what I want for my life?
Jordan (03:13):
I didn't really understand what I wanted for my
life until I was a little bitolder.
And growing up in a small town,I don't know that I really had
clear direction of, of where Iwas headed at a young age.
But the second that I got intothis profession of law
enforcement and I, I describe itas discovering purpose for the
first time in my life, it reallyallowed me to see, clearly the
(03:36):
path that I wanted to go down.
And it, it was a littlebackwards for me because I
really found it after I joinedthe profession.
And I never felt that before,but.
Things in my past became clearto me as I saw that purpose and
as I move forward in myprofession.
Paul Tripp | MCC (03:51):
I can imagine there are people listening who
may be younger and who mightthink, gosh, I don't know what
I'm gonna do with my life.
I'm not sure where I'm gonna go.
Nothing's really making senseright now.
What would you say to that?
Jordan (04:04):
I think that if you put yourself out there and you try
for different things, you know.
When it's meant for you, youfeel when what you're doing is
right and that it's somethingthat you want to continue doing
for the rest of your life.
I think the challenge is justgetting exposure, putting
yourself out there, surroundingyourself with people who want to
(04:25):
do good things, who want tobetter themselves.
And as your life takes youdifferent directions, I think
that you will discover whateverthat
Paul Tripp | MCC (04:31):
purpose is for you.
So what clicked for you?
How did you know?
For me, it was that feeling ofhelping someone, the feeling
that I got when
Jordan (04:45):
as a police officer, you go to work and you really don't
know what the day holds, but youhave these encounters where you
can feel that you made thedifference in connecting with
that person that day.
Our job is challenging the senseof not everybody we deal with
believes we're helping them.
A significant amount.
Do not believe that.
But it allows us, if we reallystick to this mindset of being
(05:07):
helpers and being servants inthis profession, you should have
no doubt at the end of a careerof all the positive things you
did and all the impacts you madeon people.
Paul Tripp | MCC (05:17):
I wasn't gonna go here, but now that you
brought this up, I am gonna gohere.
Sure.
I know you to be a kind man, andI'm curious, you've been in the
police department for many yearsand there's a perception that as
police officers, sometimespolice officers can become jaded
and angry.
And you just said that sometimespeople don't see you as a helper
(05:41):
to them or as wanting to help.
How have you been able tomaintain a mindset of, oh,
right.
I don't wanna be an asshole.
Right.
I'm not gonna let the job jademe and I'm going to keep a
mindset of helping.
Jordan (05:56):
I think it's who I've surrounded myself with in my
life, and I've really focused onfamily, friends, not only in the
law enforcement profession.
Because that perception and whatyou see happen in law
enforcement over the years, it'sa real challenge.
It's trauma on police officersis what happens to them.
And they, the exposure day afterday after day, that's not dealt
(06:18):
with internally with policeofficers.
They develop a very jaded senseof the world, and it's up to us
in leadership.
As we move forward in thisprofession to implement ways to
make sure that doesn't happen.
So for me personally, I saw itearly.
I saw personalities of people.
I'm close with changing, and Iknew it was because of the job,
(06:41):
but I also got into theprofession at a time where.
Officer wellness and taking careof ourselves was starting to be
pushed.
So early on, I was told by mybosses that you need to watch
for these things.
Some of the generations beforeme, which I think we've really
seen some of the impacts in thislast decade or two.
Not only were they not exposedto taking care of themselves,
(07:04):
they were told to suppress itand to not talk about these
things that they're seeing.
I think you'll see a drasticchange in direction.
For the wellness of policeofficers as we move forward as a
country.
Paul Tripp | MCC (07:16):
So how are you addressing mental health within
the police force?
Jordan (07:19):
I've assigned an officer, wellness coordinator.
This is an officer that helpsbuild policy and implement
protocols for ensuring that ourpolice officers are taken care
of and they report to me.
There is confidentiality builtwithin it, but they report to me
on the direction of the program,the success of the program so
(07:40):
that I can ensure it's beingutilized and adjust if I need
to.
For example, if I hear that.
This specific policy is notbeing used because there's
language in it that officersfear.
It's not going to beconfidential.
I can look at that.
I can see where they're comingfrom, and then I can look at is
(08:00):
it a law that required me tohave the policy that way, or can
I change verbiage?
Can I make sure there's trust inthe program to ensure success?
Paul Tripp | MCC (08:09):
Hmm.
You raised a point aboutofficers being engaged and
feeling safe and their mentalhealth being taken care of, and
I know a lot of corporations outthere are struggling with
retention.
How does the organization meetthe remit of what they need to
do operationally and ensure thatthe person is taken care of and,
and they feel seen and heard andnurtured on the job?
(08:33):
How do you do it in the policeforce?
I
Jordan (08:36):
think it's staying clear with the messaging of what our
purpose is, what our mission isright up front.
When someone becomes a policeofficer, we need to make clear
that the first thing that weprioritize at our police
department is the mission ofserving the community.
And that has to come first.
It has to always come first, butin that same message, we need to
make clear that the employee andthose actually doing the work
(08:58):
are going to be taken care of.
Consistency in how we moveforward as a police department,
I think is very important andtrust to ensure the decisions
that are gonna be made.
They know they're coming from agood place and they know they're
consistent and not all over theplace and how we make decisions,
and they always go back to themission of what is best for the
community that we serve.
Paul Tripp | MCC (09:21):
So you have clear communication.
You have consistentcommunication.
You have both of those tied tothe mission and the vision of
what you're doing.
And what else do you offeremployees or how do you partner
with employees to ensure thatthey feel like, ah, I am a part
of the mission?
Jordan (09:39):
So small things that I do is I really try to engage, I
work within a collectivebargaining agreement, right?
My employees are part of a unionthat I have to engage with
consistently, although I.
Sometimes we have differentviewpoints of the direction we
need to go.
I make sure I pull them intodecisions that even if I didn't
(10:00):
specifically need their buy-infor it, if I identify this as a
big change, that I need thatsupport.
I'm going to slow down thatdecision for a few months.
I'm gonna engage with them toreally make them feel that.
For one, we have this problemthat we can both agree on, we
need a solution for, and then wework together on finding out
(10:21):
what that is.
An example of that right now isI'm working with our union on
mandatory overtime rotations.
So one thing you're seeing inlaw enforcement is as we have
pushed officer wellness and takecare of yourself and spend time
with your family, that hasresulted in, yeah, I'll pass on
that overtime shift, which isRight.
That makes sense.
(10:43):
If we put the mission first andwe say, I understand you like
your time off, and that'simportant.
However, if the mission is notbeing met because we have these
overtime needs.
We need to address that.
And so what is the best way thatwe can do that together to make
sure that it's fair, it'sequitable, and it's not always
just the brand new officer thathas lowest seniority that we are
(11:05):
ordering to work these overtimeshifts.
'cause they will get burned outand then we will have retention
issues.
And everything will start tocompound.
So that's something I'm goingthrough right now and something
I really believe in is buy-inand support within our employee
unions as well to make sure weboth know the direction we're
heading and how we're gonna getthere.
Paul Tripp | MCC (11:26):
So you raised an interesting point about how
you have taken a tact ofengaging people, slowing down
the process and invitingconversation, and often leaders
think that means I'm submissiveand I'm not making a decision,
therefore I'm giving up some ofmy authority.
How have you.
Play that out in your mind,what's the risk benefit analysis
(11:47):
there for you of, I'm stillkeeping my authority, but I'm
inviting them in?
Jordan (11:51):
Well, I learned early on that I was not the smartest guy
in the room quite often, but Igot pretty effective at finding
those people and making surethat I surrounded myself with
people that had good ideas thatwould be successful.
And I think leaders who takethat approach of, I always have
to know the answer, I think yourapidly lose credibility.
When you take that stance,because common sense says you
(12:14):
are not always the guy thatknows the answer, but when your
employees know that you are theguy who's gonna take time and
find the best answer available,they automatically, there's some
built in trust and credibilitywith how you approach things.
But to be fair, in the end, I amthe decision maker and I am
accountable for those decisions.
(12:35):
So.
In those discussions and in thatapproach that I take, it's
obvious to me that we are noteven close on the same page with
what needs to be met andaccomplished.
I do have to make those harderdecisions.
Paul Tripp | MCC (12:50):
Hmm.
So there are times when you'recollaborative and times where
you know, Hey, I need to makethis final decision.
Jordan (12:57):
Yeah.
Sometimes we don't have time towork together on it.
A decision has to be made andI'm going to make it.
But when time allows and whenthe situation allows, I don't
think there's ever any harm ofcollaboration.
Paul Tripp | MCC (13:09):
So we started off by you referencing, you grew
up in a small town and whereyou're the chief of police.
It is changing dramaticallybecause lots of people are
moving into the state and it'sbecoming more complex.
And you also stated that you'velearned to surround yourself
with people that you trust.
And the question I have isyou've been in this de Police
(13:30):
department for several years andyou've moved up from the junior
rank to now the chief.
You've had to probably navigateclose personal relationships,
and when you've been promotedover time and now you're the
chief, how have you been able tohold the standard of, oh gee,
I'm the chief now, and eventhough I had a relationship with
you in this role, I'm now theboss and now we need to do
(13:52):
things differently?
Jordan (13:54):
Well, for me personally, I have only become close with
people who, it goes back to thatmission first, so at work.
I have surrounded myself withpeople that I care deeply about
that have the understanding andthe mindset that as law
enforcement officers, themission has to come before
anything else.
And that has been clearthroughout my career, whether
(14:16):
it's a brand new police officeror as the police chief.
So when I have encountered timeswhere I've had to redirect or
discipline people that I caredeeply about, it has gone so
much smoother because theexpectation from them, they
know.
Well, that's going to be becausethey know who I am and they know
what's out of good intentionsand necessity of when you work
(14:40):
in public service and you workin a job that is supposed to be
for the people.
That has to come before myfriendship with you, and I've
always taken the approach of ifI do that and that conflict
results in someone not wantingto be on a personal level with
me, there's nothing I can doabout it.
Paul Tripp | MCC (15:01):
Have you always led with a mission first
mindset?
Jordan (15:06):
I wouldn't say always.
I will say that a few years intomy career, somebody actually
bought me a book and it wascalled The Mission to Men and
Me, and it really correlatedmostly to military background,
but it was someone's approach toleadership of the mission always
has to come first.
After that, you have to considerthe men and women actually doing
(15:28):
the job, right?
But never at the expense of usaccomplishing our mission.
And then lastly, if I don't takecare of myself and if I'm not
right and well to lead, then wewon't be successful.
And that book was really thefirst intriguing literature that
I started looking at leadershipin a, in an educational way.
(15:50):
Like there almost like there's ascience to this.
There's way you can approachleadership.
It's not.
I think some of it's natural,but a lot of it is learned.
Leadership can be learned, and Ithink that's important.
Paul Tripp | MCC (16:00):
You have officers or people on your team
where the friendship comesfirst.
Often in corporate Americawanting to be someone's friend
or wanting to be knowing abouttheir personal life and their
professional life.
There's this mindset of, then itmakes us a stronger team.
Mm-hmm.
What would you say to that?
Jordan (16:20):
We're a little bit unique because I have no
requirement of building aprofit.
It's very internal, themotivation for law enforcement,
but even if you're in privatebusiness and you have a profit
outcome, whatever your missionis, whatever you're building, if
that is not at the top of everydecision you make, at some point
it's gonna rear its head andit's gonna cause issues.
Paul Tripp | MCC (16:41):
Hmm, interesting.
What was the most pivotal momentthat required you to rethink
your approach to leadership?
Jordan (16:50):
Early on, I had identified people in my
profession that I knew to beextremely technically competent.
They knew all the laws, theyunderstood how to manage crime
scenes rapidly.
They were quick thinking and Ilooked at them as, you know,
someone to focus on of, okay,look.
Look at this person, howsuccessful they are with that.
(17:12):
Then I watched them take on someleadership roles, and their
technical competence was not metwith trustworthiness or
credibility, and they flounderedthey could not find success.
Even though by the book, theywere probably the most competent
people in our job.
It led me to view leadership asif I have to have a foundation
(17:35):
of leadership, it's going to betrustworthiness and credibility.
And even if I am not the personthat knows every answer, they
know that I'm gonna find thatperson and they know that
they're gonna believe in myintentions.
And from there, if you startwith that foundation of
credibility and trustworthinessand you are technically
competent, you will find wildsuccess in leadership.
(17:57):
However, if you're technicallycompetent, but that's on top of
a foundation ofuntrustworthiness self-serving,
it will crumble.
At some point, I think you canget away with, I.
Not being perfect when you havethat because you will not be
perfect in leadership.
But if you're not perfect andpeople believe in you, you're
gonna get through it a loteasier.
Paul Tripp | MCC (18:20):
So let me challenge that for a minute.
Trustworthiness and credibility.
There are, I'm sure times inyour career where there are gray
areas where you are required todo something that is not going
to be perceived as popular, orthe troops aren't gonna buy in,
right?
The police force isn't gonna buyin to what it is you have to do
or say.
(18:41):
How do you navigate thosesituations?
Well, when I saytrustworthiness, I don't mean
Jordan (18:50):
that people will always agree with my decision.
I say when I say trustworthy, Imean people know that my
decision is not self-serving.
People know that I'm not onlylooking out for myself when I
make these decisions becausethat's what I always do, right?
And they believe that.
So no matter if I make the bestdecision in the world.
They're kind of side eye itbecause this guy always does
(19:11):
this.
So when I say trustworthiness, Idon't mean that they always
agree with it.
I mean, they know where it'scoming from and they know the
intention behind it.
And me as a person they believeis not going to intentionally
try to harm them at my ownbenefit.
Paul Tripp | MCC (19:28):
Let me ask you about, after you took over this
role as chief of Police, you hadto implement changes.
You had a critical assessment ofyour organization, right?
You brought in an outside agencywho did an assessment of your
organization.
How did you navigate theinternal resistance and help
your team understand, oh, thisis what we need to do because
you're just the new guy.
Jordan (19:48):
The first thing we had to make clear is if we're going
to have an outside assessment.
We're going to have somebodythird party come in and look at
the ins and outs of our policedepartment.
We need to be prepared to answerquestions and be responsive to
some of those.
So that means we can't cherrypick the things that we think
are beneficial for us, and thenignore the things that shine bad
(20:10):
light on us.
We have to look at both.
So when we get somebody from theoutside saying, Hey, you do
these things really well, butthese other 10 things are a big
concern.
We have to be able to embraceboth of those and face it head
on.
And we worked with our employeesas we went through these
assessments to make sure thatthey also understood that this
(20:32):
was a kind of an all in approachto having this company come in
and look at it.
We're not just having anassessment that says you need to
increase your police departmentby 20%, and we're gonna just put
that in the newspaper every daythat we're short staffed and
we're gonna ignore fact that.
We're failing with technologyand we have some protocols that
are not best practices thatwe've been implementing.
(20:54):
We don't have good tracking forofficer standards or use of
force or complaints.
We're failing in those areas.
We had to really embrace thatand look at the community and
say, here it is.
Here's everything we want tobetter.
We want to address these things,and here's our path that we
think we can do it with.
Paul Tripp | MCC (21:16):
How do you navigate the fact that you are a
public figure?
You're gonna be in the newspaperif you do one wrong thing,
right?
And you also have to make toughdecisions because you have a
very public role.
Jordan (21:28):
I try to really remove emotion out of all my decisions,
and I guess I'd refer to asleading through truth and
whatever that is.
I guess multiple people havedifferent truths sometimes, but
lead through my truth, somethingthat I can stand on.
And say, here's the reasons whyI make these decisions.
But it is a challenge for me.
(21:48):
I'm not wildly comfortable withmedia and being out there in the
public a lot.
I don't enjoy it.
It's not my favorite part of thejob, but I know it's necessary
for me, so I fake it the best Ican.
Paul Tripp | MCC (21:59):
Are you faking it here?
Are you enjoying this littlemedia opportunity?
You know, I am enjoying this.
I am.
It's a good conversation.
You say lead with truth and.
Often, leaders are scared tolead with truth because they
feel it will alienate or offend.
How do you deal with speakingyour truth and not offending
(22:20):
people?
Jordan (22:22):
I don't really worry about offending people.
I think if you put too mucheffort in not offending people,
you become ineffective.
But I also understand there'scertain things that there's no
place for a police chief to talkabout or consider politics.
I'm not a political electedofficial.
I'm a police chief.
I'm a police chief for everycitizen in my city.
(22:42):
So of course I'm going to avoidpolitical hot buttons.
I'm smart enough to do that, butalso I don't, if the facts and
the data support certainactions, I'm not gonna put a
whole lot of stress on that.
Someone might be offended by.
Sometimes people are offended byanything.
Paul Tripp | MCC (23:03):
Okay.
So you lead with your truth,what you think is your truth.
I do.
Okay.
Has that ever gotten you intotrouble?
Not yet.
I try to be pretty rational.
Jordan (23:16):
I try to always see multiple sides of things.
Even if I land on one or theother, I always understand where
other people are coming from, ifwe can have conversations about
it.
I, I think as a police chief,there's certain things that
there's just no place in havingconversations and approach My
job as being everyone's chief ofpolice, we serve everyone in our
community, and that's really theonly way to approach it from a
(23:39):
police chief perspective.
Paul Tripp | MCC (23:41):
So it seems like you have a lot of personal
growth and personal growth, asyou know, plays a critical role
in leadership development.
Can you describe a moment when apersonal challenge significantly
impacted how you lead and howthat informed your professional
growth?
Jordan (23:58):
Over my last 15 years in law enforcement, I had.
A significant amount of my timewas on patrol and also on the
SWAT team, and it led tomultiple critical incidents that
are challenging to navigate inlaw enforcement.
And as I had those incidentsoccur, you look at how your
bosses handle that, and I cansee what their approach was to
(24:22):
some of these incidents.
And I will say that mine did apretty good job.
I never felt that I wasn'tsupported, but I felt the
weight.
Of what they said, and I feltthe impact and the magnitude of
the words that leadership cansay in those moments, and you
only get one shot at it.
There's no redos.
If something tragic hasoccurred, something hard has
(24:44):
occurred, and you have thatinteraction, you cannot hit
rewind.
How you handle that in themoment.
Quickly is going to be foreveringrained on these people that
you care about and that are youremployees and that you need to
continue to be well and continueto serve.
And so as, as I looked at thatand I really in the moment, you
(25:08):
have to put your own concernsaside because as a police chief,
when there's a criticalincident, of course I care about
the employee and that it shouldbe always the first thought.
I also have a lot of otherthoughts that I have to
consider.
What will the political falloutbe of this?
I, I don't have a lot ofinformation right now.
(25:28):
I hope everything was good.
I hope this was legitimate, andyou cannot let those worries be
your first approach.
You can't.
There's time for that.
Learn what happened.
Get information that has to besecondary saving.
My job has to come second tothat because.
(25:49):
Of the time.
Everything is gonna be okay.
Everything is gonna be allright.
Slow down, take care of yourpeople, look at all the
information you have, and thenrespond to the other stuff if
you have to.
Paul Tripp | MCC (26:01):
So in a crisis situation, your first concern is
your people.
Jordan (26:07):
First concern is the mission, making sure the mission
was accomplished, but I know theimpact of some of these critical
incidents on our employees andtheir career ending.
If they're handled poorly, theyend their careers and it is
vital for leadership tounderstand that.
And of course, we have to dowhat's right.
(26:28):
Sometimes things that ouremployees do is not the right
thing, and we'll have to addressthat.
But I think in the moments youneed to show that you understand
the challenge, you understandthe difficulties and the things
that they're going through.
And identify the clear path ofwhat's next, how we're gonna
process this and move forwardfor them so that they understand
(26:48):
it.
And so we provide training toour supervisors in this area and
make sure that it's handled theright way.
And fortunately, these incidentsaren't every day, but they're
more frequent than ever and wehave to get it right.
Paul Tripp | MCC (27:02):
Just as I listen to you talk, you sound
like a very rational, selfevolved leader, and yet when I
open up the news, there's allkinds of stories about police
and shootings and all kinds ofshenanigans that have happened,
and I'm wondering from yourperspective, what do you think
is a misperception that thepublic doesn't know about what
(27:24):
it is you do
Jordan (27:25):
and represent?
I think that the publicunderstand law enforcement's a
challenging job.
I think most the public.
We'll say that I don't thinkthat they fully grasp the
moments that these policeofficers have to go through.
I don't think they grasp thetragedy that they see every day.
That's shaping their thoughts.
That's shaping their decisions.
(27:45):
I don't think they fully graspthat, and that's the way it
should be.
That's why we have policeofficers.
We have police officers that aresupposed to take this on.
For the community and for ourcitizens.
I think there's obviouslypolitics, media, all these
things that come into play, butalso sometimes we do just make
mistakes and we do hire thewrong people or we do things
(28:07):
wrong.
I think the scale of how oftenthat happens, even though one is
too much, the scale of how oftenit happens is skewed, right?
There are billions of policeinteractions with citizens in
the United States every year.
Billions.
Everything we do is recorded,and you will find a handful of
(28:27):
awful videos out there, out ofbillions, and people are looking
for'em every day.
They're looking for thesevideos.
They're looking for us to make amistake.
But I know part of finding thatpurpose for me was I was
surrounded by people that Icould see had the same purpose.
They're selfless.
(28:48):
They put themselves in harm'sway.
They sacrifice their familytime, their own wellbeing.
And when I, when you know thatand when you grow up in that,
you, you really see the power inthis profession and the
selflessness and you hold thosepeople in such a high regard
(29:08):
because of what you've gonethrough with them.
I know you an experience inmilitary and it's probably very
to.
The things that you do withthese people, no one else will
relate to you, no one elseunderstands, and so you start to
really lean into that.
Paul Tripp | MCC (29:24):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Shared commonality.
Yeah.
Well, as you're talking, I'mthinking about resilience and
I'm wondering how do youcultivate resilience, both
personally, for yourself andprofessionally to help the focus
and drive continue?
Jordan (29:41):
Resilience, I think is one of the most critical things
that we are growing in lawenforcement.
Understanding the challengesthat you're going to face,
having systems of support andgrowth set up in our profession
to come out of those.
Okay.
But then at the same time,having systems set up to
(30:01):
understand when you're not goingto be okay.
And as much as we try somethings our officers go through.
They may not ever findthemselves in a position that
they're okay to be a policeofficer again, and that's okay.
And that's not weakness at all.
That's kind of understandingyourselves and knowing that if I
don't leave this profession,we're not putting the mission
(30:22):
first, right?
I'm gonna leave it for peoplethat are able to continue doing
the job in the right way.
Paul Tripp | MCC (30:30):
So resilience is both about accepting the
circumstance, but also wherepeople are in their journey.
Some people might not be a fitforever.
Jordan (30:39):
Absolutely.
I'm really seeing that right nowas we hire people, more than
ever I'm seeing people with a,what I'd say is a servant's
heart.
It is so clear in the processthat they want to serve and they
want to help people, and theyhave this idea of law
enforcement is where I want tobe, but also at an increasing
(30:59):
rate.
I will say that the skillsetneeded to be a successful police
officer.
That mindset does not alwaysmatch.
So when we really focus onhiring for character, morality,
good people that wanna servemore and more often, we are
through the process and ourtraining program, we are letting
(31:21):
them go because that is notmatching with your ability to
respond to awful situations.
People screaming and yelling,and you have to make decisions
in five seconds and you're justnot capable.
So you have the intent and youhave the heart and the desire,
but you're not capable of doingthe job.
And that's okay too.
(31:42):
And I feel strongly as my roleas a police chief when I have
those people come in and theywant to do good.
I owe it to their families and Iowe it to them to reach that
decision and say, Hey, thisisn't for you.
I'm so grateful you'd want to dothis job.
There's other ways to help.
But your family deserves for youto come home every night, and
(32:03):
it's not looking like that wouldhappen.
Paul Tripp | MCC (32:06):
I was curious then why don't I ever get a
smile when they pull me over forspeeding?
It's always such serious, sir.
Roll down your window, right?
I don't know.
They should be smiling, right?
I need a smile.
Okay.
If I'm gonna get pulled over, Ineed a smile.
I.
Right.
You know, I wonder, you go to asituation, people are screaming
(32:27):
and yelling.
Sometimes it's domesticviolence.
I can't even imagine thescenarios that you all face.
Mm-hmm.
In your profession, how do youencourage officers to balance
servant heart, right?
Show up and be a leader thatwants to help with, holy shit,
I've got a real situation on myhands where people are getting
hurt or have been hurt.
Jordan (32:47):
How does that work?
We really train the need tostabilize situations before
anything.
So before you can be nice andbefore you can serve and help
and be officer, nice guy,everything's gotta be safe.
So your first approach toanything is safety, right?
So the officer not smiling on atraffic stop.
(33:08):
That actually made me think, wetalked about misperceptions,
right?
When someone gets pulled over bya police officer and they're in
a bad mood.
I would challenge people to say,and sometimes they're just
grumpy and they're not nicepeople and that's fine.
But also wonder what was therest of this officer's
Paul Tripp | MCC (33:24):
day like?
Maybe he's got nothing to smileabout, right?
Jordan (33:30):
Maybe there's nothing that he can put a smile on his
face for because of what he justleft five minutes ago, and he is
not able to fake it.
But that is a challenge for usin law enforcement to make every
contact feel like this is theonly thing that's going on.
While speeding may not be a bigdeal, the call that they just
left is a big deal and they arefinding a way through it in
(33:51):
their head as they have thishappen, and they also took the
time to stop and address that.
Just focusing on making sureeveryone's safe is first, and
then after everyone is safe, weproblem solve.
We find out what's going on.
We can show compassion, we canfind resources, but that can
never come before safety.
Paul Tripp | MCC (34:11):
Do you think that being a police officer, the
career that has longevity, or doyou feel like because of the TR
trauma and the PTSD that buildsup over time?
It's not a career people shouldstay in for 10 or 20 years?
You know, I've been asked thisbefore.
Do we see law enforcement movingto more
Jordan (34:32):
of a profession like the military, where generally you
have someone going for four orfive years and then they're out
and more people come in?
I think you have two verydifferent missions there in the
military capabilities versus lawenforcement.
Law enforcement.
We rely so heavily on trainingand experience and what people
(34:52):
learn long into this career.
I do think that the days of 35,40 year police officers are
gone.
If we truly prioritize wellnessand resilience in these things,
that's just not healthy.
For that to continue for solong.
But I don't think that weshould, nor will we see the
approach of, we just want a fewyears of law enforcement because
(35:15):
it takes five years to evenreally be effective in law
enforcement.
And from that difference, be theskill sets you get at five
years.
Now you're a detective, nowyou're looking at the most
important crime scenes in thesecases, and you need to rely on
skillset and experience to beeffective for that.
I think it would be a tragedyfor.
(35:36):
Our country and our communities,if we saw that little of
experience continually in thelaw enforcement profession.
Paul Tripp | MCC (35:44):
So when I think about cities, I once did a
ride along with a police officerin San Diego and saw two dead
people in one day, and I waslike, holy shit, I could never
do this job.
When you think about being apolice officer in a city versus.
Being a police officer.
You say small town and there'sfive different communities
surrounding in this mountainvalley.
(36:05):
What do you think the dynamicsare or the complexities are
between what you see and dealwith?
Because there's shoot offs thathappen here.
There's standoffs versus a city.
Jordan (36:17):
Yeah.
Well, we do know that ruralareas are the highest likelihood
of officer critical incidents.
So rural areas, smaller townsare the most likely spot for
police officers to be involvedin critical incidents and
shootings, not big cities.
And the reason that is, is theamount of law enforcement.
So when you work in a big city,there's so many law enforcement
(36:38):
officers around, we know thatreduces the likelihood of
somebody attacking a policeofficer or any type of critical
incident.
We know that there's differentchallenges.
Because we are smaller policedepartments for Montana.
My agency is one of the largerpolice departments in Montana.
But if you look at on a nationalscale, it's a midsize police
(36:58):
department.
I wanna say 90% of lawenforcement agencies in the
country are smaller than 20officers, 90%.
So the vast majority are smalldepartments.
We have different obligationsand responsibilities due to not
having as many officers.
(37:20):
So here you'll see policeofficers process crime scenes.
You'll see them follow up oncalls, maybe do more just
community engagement, gettingoutta their car, talking to
people in cities who will havespecialized teams that will
respond, make a scene safe,write people's names down,
submit it to another team forfollow up specialized evidence.
(37:42):
Teams that come in.
Way more secular in how theyapproach it.
I think what I love about a.
Is, it's very kind of a holisticapproach to law enforcement.
We get to do it all, see it all,and we become very competent in
a lot of areas.
Paul Tripp | MCC (38:00):
So what do you think was a major shift for you
and your career?
I know you went to the FBINational Academy and that was a
probably a perspective shift,but I'm wondering for you
specifically, just as you maybepersonally or something you
experienced professionally, whatwas a major pivot for you?
(38:20):
I don't know that I had aspecific incident that
Jordan (38:24):
caused a pivot for me.
I was able to get experience ina several different areas of our
department, so I was able towork a little bit as a school
resource officer with thecommunity, and I really
developed that sense ofcommunity engagement and the
importance that has in lawenforcement.
I got to work on a drug taskforce for a while and got to see
the darker side of.
(38:45):
I'll call the underworld of drugaddiction in that area.
Patrol.
I had a lot of experience onpatrol.
I got to ride a motorcycle unit,a traffic enforcement unit, the
SWAT team.
I've got to do a lot of stuff inlaw enforcement and
Paul Tripp | MCC (38:59):
really, I just developed such a sense of seeing
the value of our profession.
And
Jordan (39:09):
even though not everybody sees it, I believed in
it so much.
That I wanted to make sure thatI progressed and worked myself
into positions that I felt Icould help police officers be
more successful.
And that in turn, when we havesuccessful police officers,
healthy police officers, ourcommunity is gonna feel that
(39:30):
impact.
That is how you have a communitythat engages with law
enforcement is because our lawenforcement officers are well
and they have the tools theyneed to do their job.
They're healthy and.
That approach first, I think,gets you the community support
you need to be successful, andobviously at the top level of
(39:50):
law enforcement as a policechief that impact is greater.
Not that I do the work for thesuccess, but I get to support
the people that make itsuccessful, and I want him to be
that person.
Paul Tripp | MCC (40:04):
You know, what you just described was really a
leaning in through differentroles and different scenarios,
and I'm wondering for you now asthe chief, what are you leaning
into to grow?
What's next in terms of yourprofessional development?
Jordan (40:20):
I think where I'm at in my professional development is I
have a lot of change ahead formy police department.
We're hiring 10 new officers,about a 25% increase of our
staffing.
We're building a new evidencefacility.
We're remodeling our policedepartment.
We're integrating an entirelynew software system for our
police officers, for bodycameras, fleet less lethal
(40:43):
devices, just massive amounts ofchange.
I'm looking at hiring a crimeanalyst position.
Which will be a data or inteldriven approach for our police
officers.
So we're gonna have somebodyfull-time that is mining
information, getting us aseducated on what is happening in
our community as we can, andwe're using that information on
(41:07):
how we deliver our service, howwe enforce laws, where we
enforce laws, what is gonna bemost impactful.
And what I'm really learningwith this change is a couple
things.
Not all change is good.
If you do change wrong, it'sreally bad.
That is a big challenge for you.
So I'm really, I'm not gettingso focused on just the change.
(41:32):
I'm focusing on making sure it'sright and making sure it's at
the right pace, making sure it'sat a pace that our team can
handle the change.
Not putting too much at once.
So what does that look like?
Building out timelines, makingsure the right positions come
first, because sometimes youhire positions, but until this
other thing is done, it's notgonna be successful.
(41:54):
So we need to slow down.
And I'm blessed to be in aposition in a city that supports
its police department and wejust at one of the hardest times
ever in probably the country, toask people for more.
That's exactly what we did.
And we had a community thatoverwhelmingly said, we believe
(42:15):
in our police department andthey need more, and we're gonna
pay for that and we're gonnapass this safety levy.
Which really I will say was agenerational impact for public
safety in Kalis boat.
Massive impact.
And I owe it to the community tomake sure we do it right.
And sometimes that means slowingdown, taking a step back,
(42:35):
looking at everything that'shappening, and make sure that
our officers can be successfulin implementing it.
They understand the change, whywe're doing it, and how exactly
we're gonna get there when wemake these changes.
So it's really exciting.
Paul Tripp | MCC (42:49):
Hmm.
So when you think about you as aleader, leaders often have this,
a situation, a blind spot, uh,leadership quality that keeps
coming up over and over thatthey have to learn and relearn,
or they're like, oh God, thereit is again.
What's yours?
Jordan (43:06):
Well, that was mine.
Pushing too far ahead, too fast.
Always looking for next, alwayslooking for change.
And a, as I moved up that blindspot and that weakness for me
started to get magnified.
And sometimes you ignore itbecause you're just trying to do
good things, right?
(43:26):
You're just, I'm moving ahead.
If we're not changing, we'redying.
Well, sometimes change iscatastrophic and it kills you
'cause you did it the wrong way.
I, I've really been aware of itthe last several years.
The programs like the FBINational Academy, you're
surrounding yourself with thesmartest people in the room.
(43:46):
I always have people to lean onand contact
Paul Tripp | MCC (43:49):
and
Jordan (43:50):
ask questions and make sure that I am doing it the
right way.
And I also have a boss, a citymanager who supports that
approach rather than we pass apublic safety levy and we tell
the community that, Hey, we'regetting two detectives and a
crime analyst.
And it's like, Hey, let's getthat done.
We promised the community, Iwant the community to see the
(44:10):
success in it.
So if it's gonna take six moremonths.
It'll take six more months, butthen we're gonna do it right and
we're gonna see impact, and Ithink the community will support
that.
Paul Tripp | MCC (44:20):
So you raise an interesting conundrum because
if you're a leader who likes topush change, and if, if you're
not changing, you're dying inthe slowdown, how have you still
felt like, ah, I have control,it's going according to what I
need or want as a leader?
Jordan (44:36):
Yeah, I, I think it, it's just controlled change.
You're still seeing theprogress.
You're still looking at thesetimelines and events of how
we're gonna be doing thesethings.
One thing I say that naturallyhelps slowing down change is
government.
It is so slow with everything.
So while a business could moveforward quickly in weeks, the
(44:56):
things you have to do ingovernment for budgetary changes
and this stuff that I'm just nowlearning that I wasn't exposed
to has caused me to naturallyhave been forced to slow down
because I didn't have theability, because government's
slow.
But then I saw the benefit thatcame where I would've moved
faster.
(45:17):
Then because I'm forced to slowdown because I have these extra
steps I have to go through,maybe the situation changed a
little bit or maybe informationwas brought to my attention that
I wouldn't have caught if wemoved ahead too fast.
And I'm not talking aboutdragging your feet like you're
still moving forward, but do itwhen you have all the
information you need.
(45:38):
Do it when your people areprepared for the change, when
the infrastructure's capable ofthe change and.
The last thing you want is yourpeople to see you moving forward
with change and have it justfalling on its face because we
weren't prepared for it.
And so it was really a mindsetswitch for me of don't be so
focused on change, focus onchanging the things that
(46:00):
actually
Paul Tripp | MCC (46:01):
need to be changed and do it the right way.
Interesting.
And so what do you think yourleadership superpower is?
What have you realized?
Ah, that's my superpower.
Relatability.
Why relatability?
Jordan (46:17):
I try to really show people that I care about them.
I care about employees.
I, and I think that I see it inthe tough conversations I have
when I bring employees in fordisciplinary hearings or really
hard conversations, and they go,well, they understand what has
to happen.
(46:38):
They may not like it, but theytrust it.
They trust that.
Anybody that did what they didor was in a specific situation
would have the same impact, thesame result would happen.
I think sometimes people in myposition try to really separate
themselves completely fromeveryone else, and that does
(46:58):
reduce some stress in certainareas.
If I don't know you, I don'tcare about you.
You're just a number, you're abadge number.
That fills a seat for me.
I'm not gonna lose sleep.
On the hard things because Idon't even know you, but I can
tell you I do lose sleep and itdoesn't change my decision.
I still care about you, and I dochallenge myself in these
(47:23):
decisions to make sure it's theright decision.
I want to make sure that theyknow that they're not just a
number, they're not just abadge, and that there's trust
and relatability with me.
Paul Tripp | MCC (47:36):
I just wanna ask you two other questions,
really.
You just brought up relatabilityand having tough conversations,
and I know that having difficultconversations is difficult for a
lot of people because they thinkthey need to go in and they're
nervous, they're scared.
How do you navigate havingdifficult conversations?
What's the story in your head asyou go in to do it?
(47:58):
I separate humanity
Jordan (48:02):
and compassion and caring about people with.
I sound like a broken recordwith the mission, with things
that have to happen for ourdepartment to maintain
relationships with its communityand for us to be successful.
These things have to happen, butI can in the same breath tell
(48:22):
someone that they're terminatedand they can't be a police
officer, and I could give them ahug and care about them and hope
their family's okay.
My boss one.
He used to say a lot was hewould talk about mistakes of the
heart versus mistakes of themind, and being able to separate
the two things.
And so when I bring people intothe police department and we
(48:43):
hire'em, we have thatconversation of this is a hard
job and you're gonna make a lotof mistakes.
And there's mistakes of themind, which are errors.
You tried to do something, youdid it wrong.
We need to address that.
Mistakes of the heart are justgonna be morality, ethical
decisions.
You will not work here anymorewhen you do that.
(49:04):
And we do that on day one.
So the first meeting I have withthem, I welcome'em to the
department, talk aboutexpectations, standards, and
have that conversation.
And I've had people that havehad to either resign, they
would've been terminated, butthey have resigned and they have
(49:24):
come to talk to me and say, Idon't deserve to work with the
police department because I didthese things.
They know it.
They know that's the culture.
They know that's the standardand they know what to expect
with it.
It doesn't make it easier.
It doesn't mean I don't losesome sleep, right?
But I can separate someone as ahuman
Paul Tripp | MCC (49:45):
and someone at work and what has to be done
there.
What question didn't I ask youtoday that you'd like to answer?
Jordan (49:55):
You asked a lot of questions.
You know, I always enjoy talkingwith you and it's a good
conversation that I alwayschallenge myself when you ask
these questions because I don'tgive it a lot of thought as I
sit at my desk and work.
This allows me to really, I.
I think on some of these thingsand what my approach is, and I
always grow from it.
So I appreciate having theseconversations with you.
Paul Tripp | MCC (50:15):
Yeah.
Listen, I appreciate yourdedication to the community.
I am really happy and proud ofyou that you're the chief of
police for where we all live,and I want to thank you for your
time.
Jordan (50:27):
Thank you, Paul.
Paul Tripp | MCC (50:31):
Thank you so much for joining us on this
episode of CourageousConversations.
I hope you found today'sdiscussion as inspiring and
thought provoking as I did aspecial thank you to my guest,
chief Jordan Venicio, forsharing his journey and
insights.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe, leave
a review and share it withsomebody who could benefit from
(50:52):
this conversation.
We've got some exciting guestslined up for our next episode,
so make sure to tune in.
You don't wanna miss it.
Until then, stay curious, staycourageous, and keep the
conversations in your lifeflowing.
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