July 7, 2025 • 27 mins
What does it mean to lead with integrity, stand in your power, and stay true to yourself in every room you enter? In this inspirational episode of Courageous Conversations, we speak with Hope Gladney—a pioneering leader in a male-dominated industry, a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, and a woman whose faith, humility, and clarity have shaped a remarkable life and career.
Hope shares how growing up in a small Texas town laid the foundation for her resilience, how she navigated the culture shock of college and the realities of racism, and how her path pivoted when she became a single mother. From boardrooms to mentorship circles, she has learned to lead without compromise and to define success on her own terms.
This episode is a powerful exploration of owning your story, building community, and showing up authentically—even when the world asks you to shrink.
This episode is brought to you by AceUp and Produced and Edited by Buttered Toast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:05):
Have you ever wondered if it's possible to embrace
resilience, unwavering faith,and lead with integrity?
Welcome to CourageousConversations.
Today I am honored to introduceHope Gladney, a remarkable woman
and proud member of Delta SigmaTheta Sorority Incorporated,
which is renowned for itsdedication to public service and
(00:26):
sisterhood among black women.
As a black woman of hope hasnavigated the challenging
terrain of raising her childrenon her own while excelling in a
male dominated field.
Despite facing discriminationand adversity, she has
continually leaned in building apowerful network of contacts.
Through her passion forsisterhood and unyielding
(00:47):
spirit, guided by her deep lovefor the Lord, hope approaches
her work and life with a rareblend of humility and strength
holding space for those aroundher and leading with that ego.
Join me as we delve into hope.
Gladys journey, exploring howshe built trust fostered
community, and led with graceand determination.
(01:08):
This episode is a tribute to thepower of resilience and the
importance of lifting each otherup.
According to my watch, it's timefor a courageous conversation.
Hope thanks for joining metoday.
Hope (01:29):
Hey Paul, I'm happy to be here.
Paul (01:31):
It's great to see you.
So today we're talking aboutwomen in leadership, and I'm
curious for you, what was themoment in your life when you
discovered your power?
Hope (01:44):
That's a really good question.
I think that when, when I thinkabout power, there are different
levels of power, so I feel likeI always knew that I had power.
I grew up in a small town inTexas.
My mom had me when she was veryyoung.
I lived with my grandmother, soit was my grandmother and I in
this small town.
(02:04):
There were 36 people.
Wow.
In my high school graduatingclass, the small town that I
grew up in.
It was predominantly white.
All of the black families, wewere somewhat segregated, Paul.
So there was like in this littletown of 1000 people, there were
three streets where the blackfamilies lived, and then the
other families lived in theother part of the town.
(02:26):
Growing up, most of the familiesthere, we were all related.
So I got to do everything.
I felt like just in this littleinsulated area, in this town
where I was, I always felt likeI had power.
I excelled at everything that Idid, all of the things that I
did.
I had really good friendships asI got from that environment.
I moved to college.
(02:47):
To university life.
I think there was a differentlevel of power that I had to
make myself aware of because nowI'm not in this little bubble of
this town, so I had to learn howto navigate there.
And then just getting into lifewith work, there was another set
of power too.
So I guess to answer yourquestion, I feel like I've
always had the power, thestruggle has been understanding
(03:09):
how to navigate and to discernhow to leverage that power, if
that makes sense.
Paul (03:16):
Tell me about the navigation of that.
Hope (03:19):
Whew.
That was tough.
So I was a cheerleader.
I was a national honor society.
I was popular.
I was one of the popular girls.
And so I had grown up with acommunity where I was accustomed
to being the minority, but itdidn't matter a lot, or at least
I felt like then it didn'tmatter a lot because those
(03:39):
people knew me.
They knew my family, they knewmy grandmother.
So then when I get to thisuniversity, I.
Where it's, um, exponentially alot less diverse than the little
community that I grew up in.
So now I'm trying to navigatethis system where, wow, there's
a lot of people here, right?
And the influence and the powerthat I thought I have.
(04:01):
It's nothing here.
So how do I, number one, buildnew friendships?
How do I become influential inthis large college campus?
How do I make new friends?
Once I got to college, I didn'tpay a lot of attention to.
The racial makeup of things,Paul, even though I know I'm
black, when you see me, that'swhat you see first.
(04:23):
I didn't experience a lot ofracism growing up, right?
Because we did everythingtogether.
That little town was my family.
But when I got to college, I.
It was different.
And I can tell you I was calledthe N word for the first time
when I was in college.
It was shocking to me.
I had to figure out, okay, hope,who are you?
(04:45):
Who are you really?
And what is it that you standfor?
So I started to align with thevarious organizations where I
thought there were similarbeliefs and really working with
people and working with thestudents that had similar goals.
That I had.
And so it was just understandingwhat's the right way as this
(05:06):
young person trying to getthrough college and still have
fun, what's the right way to dothat?
So it was just a different levelof figuring out how to navigate
through it.
Paul (05:17):
I can imagine that when you were first called the N
word, it probably knocked youfor a loop.
Hope (05:23):
Yeah, it was probably my third year in college.
We'd gone out as college kidsdo.
We had gone to the nightclubs,it closed, and we were at a
McDonald's.
And while we were there walkingback to my car, these drunk guys
in their pickup truck, they justyelled it out.
And I'm like, really?
(05:43):
Did that just happen?
And the guy that I was with, heactually, there was an
altercation because I'm like.
I can't believe that thishappened.
And I was really shocked that inthat day and time that people
were still thinking like that.
But it happened, and that waswithout telling my age.
That was 30 years ago.
And what's surprising is thatwe're still going through some
(06:04):
of those challenges today.
Paul (06:06):
And so for listeners, I'm curious, what would you say to.
Women that are going throughthis, black women who are
experiencing this for the firsttime.
How did you move through that?
What did you learn?
What did you think about, whatwould you say to people that are
going through that now?
Hope (06:24):
What I would say is that own your power, right?
I'm always cautious when I hearpeople say, I don't see color.
That's denialism in my opinion,because we all see color.
The question is how do you dealwith it when you see it?
How do you try to affect changefor the people who don't see it
positively?
(06:44):
So what I would say is youshouldn't feel less than or
smaller than anyone else, justbecause of the color of your
skin or just because of the waythat you think, the way that you
love you are who you are.
And that's enough.
I think it's important that aswe think about our younger
children, this youngergeneration that's coming up.
(07:06):
We need to make sure that's whatwe're communicating to children,
because I think a lot of thisbehavior is learned.
It's not necessarily somethingthat's innate with us.
I think that's taught.
So I think the words that wespeak, we really need to be
careful with how we'recommunicating and how we're
sharing our thoughts.
Paul (07:23):
I know Delta Sigma Theta, this, that sorority has played
an influential role in yourlife.
Can you talk to us about that?
Hope (07:32):
I knew nothing about sorority life when I went to
college.
I don't know, in from my family,I wasn't the first person to go
to college, but I was definitelyone of the first, uh, people to
get to college.
So I didn't have family membersthat had pledged a sorority or a
fraternity.
I knew nothing about it.
So I was this, I like to saythis really naive girl going
(07:54):
into college from this town of.
With the population of 1000, Iknew a lot about nothing once I
got there.
So I had some good friends thatI'd met and they were talking
about these sororities, and I'mlike, what is that?
I have no idea what it is.
And so I remember going to Rush.
I only went to the rush forDelta Sigma data because as soon
(08:15):
as I heard about what they were,about what they did.
I wanted to be a part of itbecause growing up I'd seen
powerful black women with mymom, with my grandmom, with my
aunts, and I knew what they werecapable of doing.
But when I got exposed to whatthese women were doing, what
(08:35):
these women had endured to do,Delta Sigma Theta was founded on
January 13th, 19 13th on thecampus of Howard University.
One of the first public actsthat was done by the sorority
was to participate in thewomen's suffrage march.
That happened in March of thatsame year.
(08:55):
The challenging thing is thatthese were black women that were
participating for women.
They were still frowned upon bysome of the white women who
didn't want them to be upfront,even though they were fighting
for the same thing.
There were still some pushbackon these women to be a part of
it.
But they persevered Paul.
And so even up until today, theorganization is almost 400,000
(09:18):
women strong with a thousandchapters throughout the globe
and the whole point of theorganization, it was built on
social action.
When you look at theprogrammatic thrust of the
organization, its education,economic development,
international awareness,political awareness, physical
and mental health.
So it's all about this servantleadership and how can we help
(09:41):
others?
And so I feel like I found mypeople.
It's this bond that I have withall of these women, but also
it's this common goal of reallydoing good for people and to
help out the less fortunate andthe least.
I, I just love that about theorganization.
Paul (09:59):
It sounds like it's really played a pivotal role in your
life.
Hope (10:03):
Yeah, it has.
I was an only child.
I had a lot of cousins that werejust like siblings to me, but
it's a sisterhood.
Some of my best friends are apart of the organization.
And again, it's just one ofthose things where I feel like
it's a bond with women who, if Idon't know them, but if I know
that they're part of one of mySoros as we call each other.
(10:24):
We're connected to each other,and I felt that sense of
connection the minute that Ibecame a part of that
organization.
Paul (10:31):
I can imagine.
When you went into a white maledominated field, what were some
of the earliest challenges youfaced and how did you overcome
those?
Hope (10:40):
It was this feeling like I had to be 10 times better than
they were just to have the sensethat I was on equal footing with
them.
It was like, here's this littlegirl that's coming into this
space.
What can you do?
So I had to prove myself timeand time again just to be on
equal footing with a lot of themen.
(11:01):
Where I was occupying the samespace as them.
Imposter syndrome.
It's real in, in the workplace.
It, it's absolutely real.
You have to make sure thatyou're strong mentally because
there's a lot of just littlesignals that are there, or just
side conversations that happenthat you hear and you know it's
about you.
But they're not saying it toyou.
(11:23):
It's been interesting.
I think that with maturity youlearn how to deal with it a lot
better.
And I've come to a point nowwhere it's, I am enough.
It's, this is who I am.
Either you like me, youappreciate what I do, or you
don't, but I deserve to be hereand, I'm doing this just as well
as you are.
Paul (11:42):
When did that switch occur?
Hope (11:44):
I would say later in my career as opposed to earlier in
it, because I was a single mom,trying to navigate my career,
trying to be a really good mom,trying to figure out just the
balance of life.
How do I get through things?
And so there was still this,need to please everyone where
it's like, I have to do this inorder to be accepted or I have
to do things in a certain way.
(12:04):
I had a need to be a peoplepleaser, but I would say that
once, I hit my 40, once you getto a point where it's, okay,
this is how I'm going to be, andit's not that I don't care about
what other people think aboutme, but it's just this is who I
am if they like me, great.
If not, that's great too.
(12:26):
Onwards and upwards.
Paul (12:28):
How did that unlock?
Potential for you knowing that
Hope (12:33):
it unlocked it.
Because if you're trying to bethe people pleaser, you're
trying to understand whateveryone else wants of you, and
that's a burden.
It's really hard, even if youthink about it from a
professional perspective, butfrom a personal perspective too,
with the relationships that youhave outside of work, trying to
(12:55):
live up to expectations of whatothers have of you.
That's hard, and you just atsome point it's, you know what?
I can't.
I cannot do this.
I have to be myself.
So getting to that point, Iremember my husband and I when
we met, we have this beautiful,blended family right now, but I
(13:16):
remember one of the firstconversations that my husband
and I had, and it was himtelling me, look, I have flaws.
This is who I am.
And so if we're going to getinto this relationship, I want
you to see me for who I am,because I don't wanna come into
it as a representative.
This is me.
(13:36):
And so that gave me the freedomto do the same thing with him.
It opened the door to do it atwork as well.
I don't send the representative,I am myself.
I, I try to be authenticallymyself in every space that I'm
in.
Paul (13:52):
I think it's one of my favorite things about you is
I've seen you just be thisauthentic leader, and I think
for younger people, and you cancorrect me here if I'm wrong,
but when you think about youngerpeople and when younger people
stand in their power, it can bemore energetic and forthright
and come across differently thanhow you're showing up now with
(14:13):
this kind of knowing.
And so what would you say toyoung black women today in the
workforce that are trying tostand in their power?
And show up authentically.
What would you say to them?
Hope (14:24):
What I would say to young black women is.
Be yourself.
For black women, it's you haveto straighten your hair.
You can't come off as aggressivebecause you're going to be
painted as an angry black woman.
You can't just sit in the backand shy away because no one's
going to notice who you are.
(14:46):
So there's this box of thingsthat we have to do in order to
frame ourselves as acceptable.
To others, and in that framing,it's we have to emulate the idea
of someone else.
So my advice to young blackwomen today is.
You create the box, you decidewhat your box is, you decide
(15:10):
what's that version of yourself.
You don't have to conform toanything that you're not
comfortable with.
Be authentically yourself fromday one, because once you start
conforming, you have to continueto do it.
And it's hard.
It's hard living up toexpectations that aren't true to
(15:30):
you.
So be true to yourself first,and if others don't see it.
So what be true to yourself?
Paul (15:38):
One of the things you have a beautiful blend of is humility
and strength.
How do you balance leading withconfidence while holding space
for those around you?
Hope (15:48):
I grew up with my grandmother.
She instilled so many things inme.
Paul, I remember every nightbefore my grandmother would go
to bed, she would pray.
She had such a strong faith.
I remember people coming to mygrandmother for advice all the
time, and I remember her alsosaying, you treat everyone with
respect no matter who it is.
(16:10):
You treat everyone withkindness.
And so I've taken that with mein the way that I work.
I try to respect everyone.
I'm in sales.
One of the things that I feellike.
I do really is I try to connectwith the people that I'm selling
to.
I try to build genuinerelationships.
So I think it's just being kindand holding space.
(16:33):
People have a knack for,sensing, authenticity, and
sensing is this a representativeor is this a real person?
So.
I try to do that with everyperson that I meet and I've
tried to instill it in mychildren as well.
It's like, look, you treateveryone with kindness.
We never look down on anyone.
Paul (16:53):
I'm curious, what do you think is the most important
conversation we need to havetoday about women in leadership?
Hope (16:59):
The most important conversation that we need to
have about women in leadershiptoday is that we're not going
anywhere.
It's that we are here, and wedeserve to be here.
We have earned the right to behere, and we're just as worthy
of being here as anyone else isin this space.
Paul (17:22):
Is there something in specific that you'd wanna say to
your white colleagues?
Be it male or female?
Hope (17:27):
Specifically?
What I would wanna say is thatwe went through the pandemic, we
went through the George Floydera, and there are these
conversations that surfaced, uh,conversations that came to the
forefront that really hadn'tcome to the forefront before.
And there's been a burden forblack people.
It had been unspoken.
(17:48):
I think it had just been reallyunder the surface until a lot of
these things happened.
It's bubbling up now, and thereare conversations that are being
had that have not been hadbefore.
But as a black person.
There's this fatigue abouthaving to explain the challenges
(18:09):
that we've had to go through,and I'll give you this example.
Paul, you and I talked aboutthis before, entering a room
being the only black person orthe only black face in that
room.
If you flip that to my whitecolleagues, my question to them
would be, how would you feel?
How would you manage that if youwent through life like that?
(18:30):
All the time.
How would you navigate thosesituations?
I think what I would like to sayis that we need to be
empathetic, but we also need tobe careful at understanding the
path, understanding our historyof where we've come from.
I know people are really quickto say, why are we having these
(18:52):
racial conversations?
Black people just got the rightto vote in 1965.
So I feel like we've been inthis struggle for a while.
We've come a long way with it,but there's still a long way to
go so I think that we just needto come from a sense of empathy
when we're having theseconversations and to have them
really understand what yourblack colleagues and your black
(19:15):
friends have to deal with andwhat we go through.
Paul (19:19):
You mentioned being exhausted, and I remember having
a conversation with a colleaguewho's a black male right after
George Floyd and I brought up,what can I do?
Yeah.
And one of the things he saidis, you can start getting
educated so I can stop havingthis conversation with you.
And that's really the first timeI was like, holy smokes, this is
(19:39):
truly on me.
It's not on him.
It's on me to understand what myrole is.
And from that moment.
I've really started to take anactive role in reading.
Yeah.
And listening and elevatingcolleagues around me that aren't
white.
Hope (19:52):
Yeah, and there's so much of our rich history that's just
swept under the rug.
When I went through high school,I never had a black teacher.
I still haven't, in all of theyears of my education, I never
had a a black teacher.
I don't remember there being alot about black history when I
was going through high school.
The things that I learned aboutblack history are the things
(20:12):
that I picked up on later aftercollege and readings that I've
been doing now.
There hasn't been this effort toreally educate, so I think that
we all have a responsibility,just like you just said, let's
do the research.
Let's really learn about this.
Mm-hmm.
Paul (20:30):
When you pivoted in your leadership journey, when you put
faith forward and you started toleverage your sisterhood, how
significant was that for you?
Hope (20:43):
It was really significant for me.
My faith is the basis foreverything that I've done.
I think that's really driven alot of the decisions that I've
made in life.
But having my sisterhood aswell, I've learned a lot from
the leaders within the sorority.
What I picked up from it is thisconcept of servant leadership.
(21:03):
How can I help others?
And then how can I give back toothers as well?
How can I take what I've learnedand make sure that people that
are less fortunate that they canlearn from that?
Or how can I help someone out tojust give someone else a hand to
help them to navigate thejourney that they're going
through?
By giving them, details of whatI had to experience.
(21:25):
So it's been pivotal for mebecause I remember just when I
was much younger, not havingthat voice, but then leaning on
my faith to say, okay, I'vegotta do this.
I never expected myself to haveto be a, a single mom of two
little boys that are 18 monthsapart.
I never expected that I wasgoing to have the career that I
(21:47):
had.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
So I got into tech sales.
I, I did hear some peopletelling me you need to have a
career where you're in an officeall the time where you don't
have to travel.
I didn't want that for me.
I've always leaned towards doingmore complex things.
I wanna do something hardbecause I like to challenge
(22:08):
myself.
So I had a, a community.
I had a village that helped me.
To raise my boys.
As I was going through it, I wasalways striving to be better,
and in that quest to be better.
It was just, okay, how can Iwork on myself?
How can I make sure that I havea life that's good for my boys?
Because I wanted them to see meworking hard.
(22:29):
I.
So that they in turn, would seewhat that work ethic was like,
and they would be able to takethat on for themselves and then
leave it to their generationsafter them
Paul (22:38):
I know when you were in college, you were thrown a
pivot, you were going to pursueone thing, and then life
happened and you were forced tochange direction.
How did you navigate that pivot?
Hope (22:48):
So when I was in college, I was a biochemistry major, and
I thought that after I finishedwith that, that I wanted to go
to medical school.
The last year that I was incollege, I ended up, I was
pregnant, right?
And so I had this baby in Julyafter I graduated that summer.
And so I was faced with, okay,what am I going to do?
(23:11):
My partner and I, he hadrecently graduated as well.
Things didn't work out with him.
So the pivot that I made was,okay, it's not just me that I
now have to take care of.
So I've just recently finishedcollege.
I don't think I'm gonna go tomedical school at this point.
What are you going to do?
Hope?
How are you going to support notonly yourself, but you have
(23:34):
someone else who you'reresponsible for?
Now I started working, right?
I got one of my first jobs waswith at and t and I started this
career in sales there, and thatsort of catapulted me to getting
into tech sales.
The way I navigated it, Paul,was that I knew that medical
school wasn't necessarily in thecards for me.
(23:54):
But this is now where I am andwhere I am was I was going to
make the best of the opportunitythat I had been given and be the
best in that role.
And I've been doing the samething year after year as I've
made decisions about my careerand where I am in it.
Paul (24:10):
When the pivot happened, you were like, okay, I've gotta
do something.
So you put your head down, youchose a career path, and you've
made the best of it.
And now you understand there'sstrength in this for myself.
Hope (24:22):
Yeah, and I think too, once you make that decision to
do something, don't do ithalfway.
If you're gonna commit to do it,then commit to doing it 100%.
Paul (24:32):
If there's one thing you want listeners to take away from
your story and experience, whatwould that be?
Hope (24:37):
I would say resilience because I feel like I've been
driven since I was.
A little girl.
I always wanted to be the bestat everything that I did.
I was always very competitive,but it wasn't always easy, and
so I had to figure out how toget through some obstacles and I
(24:58):
had a good village around me.
I had people that supported me.
I had a great network.
I remember at one point in mycareer, some of the best advice
that I got from one of mymentors was, you need to build
your own, personal board ofdirectors.
And I was able to do that.
And every.
Organization that I've workedfor, every company that I've
(25:20):
left, I feel like I haverelationships with those people.
I can still reach back to peopleand.
I consider them a friend wherelike you and I, Paul, I know
that the first conversation thatI had with you, I remember that
conversation and it was just abond that I felt that you and I
had with each other.
I try to make those connectionsno matter what, because I think
(25:43):
that those connections, you needthem because in addition to the
resilience.
Those connections is theconnective tissue that actually
helps you to get through thechallenges that you have.
Paul (25:54):
I, I appreciate the conversation today.
Hope I've heard the power ofyour faith, the power of, as you
say, connections, but bothwithin your sorority, your
grandmother, the community, tounderstand the power of your
voice and how you lean in andrecognizing that sometimes
adversity is going to happen andyou need to pivot.
(26:16):
And put your head down and seekanother solution.
Hope (26:19):
Yeah, that's key.
Just keep going.
Never give up is the mantra.
And another mantra that I haveis enjoy the moment, right?
We never know what's around thebend, so enjoy the moment.
Perfect.
Paul (26:32):
I think I'll leave it right there.
Thank you so much for joining uson this episode of Courageous
Conversations.
I hope you found today'sdiscussion as inspiring and
thought provoking as I did aspecial thank you to our guest,
hope for sharing her journey andinsights.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe.
Leave a review and share it withsomeone who could benefit from
(26:52):
this conversation.
We've got some exciting guestslined up for our next episode,
so make sure to tune in.
You won't wanna miss it.
Until then, stay curious, staycourageous, and keep the
conversations in your lifeflowing.
Have you ever wondered if it's possible to embrace
resilience, unwavering faith,and lead with integrity?
Welcome to CourageousConversations.
Today I am honored to introduceHope Gladney, a remarkable woman
and proud member of Delta SigmaTheta Sorority Incorporated,
which is renowned for itsdedication to public service and
(00:26):
sisterhood among black women.
As a black woman of hope hasnavigated the challenging
terrain of raising her childrenon her own while excelling in a
male dominated field.
Despite facing discriminationand adversity, she has
continually leaned in building apowerful network of contacts.
Through her passion forsisterhood and unyielding
(00:47):
spirit, guided by her deep lovefor the Lord, hope approaches
her work and life with a rareblend of humility and strength
holding space for those aroundher and leading with that ego.
Join me as we delve into hope.
Gladys journey, exploring howshe built trust fostered
community, and led with graceand determination.
(01:08):
This episode is a tribute to thepower of resilience and the
importance of lifting each otherup.
According to my watch, it's timefor a courageous conversation.
Hope thanks for joining metoday.
Hope (01:29):
Hey Paul, I'm happy to be here.
Paul (01:31):
It's great to see you.
So today we're talking aboutwomen in leadership, and I'm
curious for you, what was themoment in your life when you
discovered your power?
Hope (01:44):
That's a really good question.
I think that when, when I thinkabout power, there are different
levels of power, so I feel likeI always knew that I had power.
I grew up in a small town inTexas.
My mom had me when she was veryyoung.
I lived with my grandmother, soit was my grandmother and I in
this small town.
(02:04):
There were 36 people.
Wow.
In my high school graduatingclass, the small town that I
grew up in.
It was predominantly white.
All of the black families, wewere somewhat segregated, Paul.
So there was like in this littletown of 1000 people, there were
three streets where the blackfamilies lived, and then the
other families lived in theother part of the town.
(02:26):
Growing up, most of the familiesthere, we were all related.
So I got to do everything.
I felt like just in this littleinsulated area, in this town
where I was, I always felt likeI had power.
I excelled at everything that Idid, all of the things that I
did.
I had really good friendships asI got from that environment.
I moved to college.
(02:47):
To university life.
I think there was a differentlevel of power that I had to
make myself aware of because nowI'm not in this little bubble of
this town, so I had to learn howto navigate there.
And then just getting into lifewith work, there was another set
of power too.
So I guess to answer yourquestion, I feel like I've
always had the power, thestruggle has been understanding
(03:09):
how to navigate and to discernhow to leverage that power, if
that makes sense.
Paul (03:16):
Tell me about the navigation of that.
Hope (03:19):
Whew.
That was tough.
So I was a cheerleader.
I was a national honor society.
I was popular.
I was one of the popular girls.
And so I had grown up with acommunity where I was accustomed
to being the minority, but itdidn't matter a lot, or at least
I felt like then it didn'tmatter a lot because those
(03:39):
people knew me.
They knew my family, they knewmy grandmother.
So then when I get to thisuniversity, I.
Where it's, um, exponentially alot less diverse than the little
community that I grew up in.
So now I'm trying to navigatethis system where, wow, there's
a lot of people here, right?
And the influence and the powerthat I thought I have.
(04:01):
It's nothing here.
So how do I, number one, buildnew friendships?
How do I become influential inthis large college campus?
How do I make new friends?
Once I got to college, I didn'tpay a lot of attention to.
The racial makeup of things,Paul, even though I know I'm
black, when you see me, that'swhat you see first.
(04:23):
I didn't experience a lot ofracism growing up, right?
Because we did everythingtogether.
That little town was my family.
But when I got to college, I.
It was different.
And I can tell you I was calledthe N word for the first time
when I was in college.
It was shocking to me.
I had to figure out, okay, hope,who are you?
(04:45):
Who are you really?
And what is it that you standfor?
So I started to align with thevarious organizations where I
thought there were similarbeliefs and really working with
people and working with thestudents that had similar goals.
That I had.
And so it was just understandingwhat's the right way as this
(05:06):
young person trying to getthrough college and still have
fun, what's the right way to dothat?
So it was just a different levelof figuring out how to navigate
through it.
Paul (05:17):
I can imagine that when you were first called the N
word, it probably knocked youfor a loop.
Hope (05:23):
Yeah, it was probably my third year in college.
We'd gone out as college kidsdo.
We had gone to the nightclubs,it closed, and we were at a
McDonald's.
And while we were there walkingback to my car, these drunk guys
in their pickup truck, they justyelled it out.
And I'm like, really?
(05:43):
Did that just happen?
And the guy that I was with, heactually, there was an
altercation because I'm like.
I can't believe that thishappened.
And I was really shocked that inthat day and time that people
were still thinking like that.
But it happened, and that waswithout telling my age.
That was 30 years ago.
And what's surprising is thatwe're still going through some
(06:04):
of those challenges today.
Paul (06:06):
And so for listeners, I'm curious, what would you say to.
Women that are going throughthis, black women who are
experiencing this for the firsttime.
How did you move through that?
What did you learn?
What did you think about, whatwould you say to people that are
going through that now?
Hope (06:24):
What I would say is that own your power, right?
I'm always cautious when I hearpeople say, I don't see color.
That's denialism in my opinion,because we all see color.
The question is how do you dealwith it when you see it?
How do you try to affect changefor the people who don't see it
positively?
(06:44):
So what I would say is youshouldn't feel less than or
smaller than anyone else, justbecause of the color of your
skin or just because of the waythat you think, the way that you
love you are who you are.
And that's enough.
I think it's important that aswe think about our younger
children, this youngergeneration that's coming up.
(07:06):
We need to make sure that's whatwe're communicating to children,
because I think a lot of thisbehavior is learned.
It's not necessarily somethingthat's innate with us.
I think that's taught.
So I think the words that wespeak, we really need to be
careful with how we'recommunicating and how we're
sharing our thoughts.
Paul (07:23):
I know Delta Sigma Theta, this, that sorority has played
an influential role in yourlife.
Can you talk to us about that?
Hope (07:32):
I knew nothing about sorority life when I went to
college.
I don't know, in from my family,I wasn't the first person to go
to college, but I was definitelyone of the first, uh, people to
get to college.
So I didn't have family membersthat had pledged a sorority or a
fraternity.
I knew nothing about it.
So I was this, I like to saythis really naive girl going
(07:54):
into college from this town of.
With the population of 1000, Iknew a lot about nothing once I
got there.
So I had some good friends thatI'd met and they were talking
about these sororities, and I'mlike, what is that?
I have no idea what it is.
And so I remember going to Rush.
I only went to the rush forDelta Sigma data because as soon
(08:15):
as I heard about what they were,about what they did.
I wanted to be a part of itbecause growing up I'd seen
powerful black women with mymom, with my grandmom, with my
aunts, and I knew what they werecapable of doing.
But when I got exposed to whatthese women were doing, what
(08:35):
these women had endured to do,Delta Sigma Theta was founded on
January 13th, 19 13th on thecampus of Howard University.
One of the first public actsthat was done by the sorority
was to participate in thewomen's suffrage march.
That happened in March of thatsame year.
(08:55):
The challenging thing is thatthese were black women that were
participating for women.
They were still frowned upon bysome of the white women who
didn't want them to be upfront,even though they were fighting
for the same thing.
There were still some pushbackon these women to be a part of
it.
But they persevered Paul.
And so even up until today, theorganization is almost 400,000
(09:18):
women strong with a thousandchapters throughout the globe
and the whole point of theorganization, it was built on
social action.
When you look at theprogrammatic thrust of the
organization, its education,economic development,
international awareness,political awareness, physical
and mental health.
So it's all about this servantleadership and how can we help
(09:41):
others?
And so I feel like I found mypeople.
It's this bond that I have withall of these women, but also
it's this common goal of reallydoing good for people and to
help out the less fortunate andthe least.
I, I just love that about theorganization.
Paul (09:59):
It sounds like it's really played a pivotal role in your
life.
Hope (10:03):
Yeah, it has.
I was an only child.
I had a lot of cousins that werejust like siblings to me, but
it's a sisterhood.
Some of my best friends are apart of the organization.
And again, it's just one ofthose things where I feel like
it's a bond with women who, if Idon't know them, but if I know
that they're part of one of mySoros as we call each other.
(10:24):
We're connected to each other,and I felt that sense of
connection the minute that Ibecame a part of that
organization.
Paul (10:31):
I can imagine.
When you went into a white maledominated field, what were some
of the earliest challenges youfaced and how did you overcome
those?
Hope (10:40):
It was this feeling like I had to be 10 times better than
they were just to have the sensethat I was on equal footing with
them.
It was like, here's this littlegirl that's coming into this
space.
What can you do?
So I had to prove myself timeand time again just to be on
equal footing with a lot of themen.
(11:01):
Where I was occupying the samespace as them.
Imposter syndrome.
It's real in, in the workplace.
It, it's absolutely real.
You have to make sure thatyou're strong mentally because
there's a lot of just littlesignals that are there, or just
side conversations that happenthat you hear and you know it's
about you.
But they're not saying it toyou.
(11:23):
It's been interesting.
I think that with maturity youlearn how to deal with it a lot
better.
And I've come to a point nowwhere it's, I am enough.
It's, this is who I am.
Either you like me, youappreciate what I do, or you
don't, but I deserve to be hereand, I'm doing this just as well
as you are.
Paul (11:42):
When did that switch occur?
Hope (11:44):
I would say later in my career as opposed to earlier in
it, because I was a single mom,trying to navigate my career,
trying to be a really good mom,trying to figure out just the
balance of life.
How do I get through things?
And so there was still this,need to please everyone where
it's like, I have to do this inorder to be accepted or I have
to do things in a certain way.
(12:04):
I had a need to be a peoplepleaser, but I would say that
once, I hit my 40, once you getto a point where it's, okay,
this is how I'm going to be, andit's not that I don't care about
what other people think aboutme, but it's just this is who I
am if they like me, great.
If not, that's great too.
(12:26):
Onwards and upwards.
Paul (12:28):
How did that unlock?
Potential for you knowing that
Hope (12:33):
it unlocked it.
Because if you're trying to bethe people pleaser, you're
trying to understand whateveryone else wants of you, and
that's a burden.
It's really hard, even if youthink about it from a
professional perspective, butfrom a personal perspective too,
with the relationships that youhave outside of work, trying to
(12:55):
live up to expectations of whatothers have of you.
That's hard, and you just atsome point it's, you know what?
I can't.
I cannot do this.
I have to be myself.
So getting to that point, Iremember my husband and I when
we met, we have this beautiful,blended family right now, but I
(13:16):
remember one of the firstconversations that my husband
and I had, and it was himtelling me, look, I have flaws.
This is who I am.
And so if we're going to getinto this relationship, I want
you to see me for who I am,because I don't wanna come into
it as a representative.
This is me.
(13:36):
And so that gave me the freedomto do the same thing with him.
It opened the door to do it atwork as well.
I don't send the representative,I am myself.
I, I try to be authenticallymyself in every space that I'm
in.
Paul (13:52):
I think it's one of my favorite things about you is
I've seen you just be thisauthentic leader, and I think
for younger people, and you cancorrect me here if I'm wrong,
but when you think about youngerpeople and when younger people
stand in their power, it can bemore energetic and forthright
and come across differently thanhow you're showing up now with
(14:13):
this kind of knowing.
And so what would you say toyoung black women today in the
workforce that are trying tostand in their power?
And show up authentically.
What would you say to them?
Hope (14:24):
What I would say to young black women is.
Be yourself.
For black women, it's you haveto straighten your hair.
You can't come off as aggressivebecause you're going to be
painted as an angry black woman.
You can't just sit in the backand shy away because no one's
going to notice who you are.
(14:46):
So there's this box of thingsthat we have to do in order to
frame ourselves as acceptable.
To others, and in that framing,it's we have to emulate the idea
of someone else.
So my advice to young blackwomen today is.
You create the box, you decidewhat your box is, you decide
(15:10):
what's that version of yourself.
You don't have to conform toanything that you're not
comfortable with.
Be authentically yourself fromday one, because once you start
conforming, you have to continueto do it.
And it's hard.
It's hard living up toexpectations that aren't true to
(15:30):
you.
So be true to yourself first,and if others don't see it.
So what be true to yourself?
Paul (15:38):
One of the things you have a beautiful blend of is humility
and strength.
How do you balance leading withconfidence while holding space
for those around you?
Hope (15:48):
I grew up with my grandmother.
She instilled so many things inme.
Paul, I remember every nightbefore my grandmother would go
to bed, she would pray.
She had such a strong faith.
I remember people coming to mygrandmother for advice all the
time, and I remember her alsosaying, you treat everyone with
respect no matter who it is.
(16:10):
You treat everyone withkindness.
And so I've taken that with mein the way that I work.
I try to respect everyone.
I'm in sales.
One of the things that I feellike.
I do really is I try to connectwith the people that I'm selling
to.
I try to build genuinerelationships.
So I think it's just being kindand holding space.
(16:33):
People have a knack for,sensing, authenticity, and
sensing is this a representativeor is this a real person?
So.
I try to do that with everyperson that I meet and I've
tried to instill it in mychildren as well.
It's like, look, you treateveryone with kindness.
We never look down on anyone.
Paul (16:53):
I'm curious, what do you think is the most important
conversation we need to havetoday about women in leadership?
Hope (16:59):
The most important conversation that we need to
have about women in leadershiptoday is that we're not going
anywhere.
It's that we are here, and wedeserve to be here.
We have earned the right to behere, and we're just as worthy
of being here as anyone else isin this space.
Paul (17:22):
Is there something in specific that you'd wanna say to
your white colleagues?
Be it male or female?
Hope (17:27):
Specifically?
What I would wanna say is thatwe went through the pandemic, we
went through the George Floydera, and there are these
conversations that surfaced, uh,conversations that came to the
forefront that really hadn'tcome to the forefront before.
And there's been a burden forblack people.
It had been unspoken.
(17:48):
I think it had just been reallyunder the surface until a lot of
these things happened.
It's bubbling up now, and thereare conversations that are being
had that have not been hadbefore.
But as a black person.
There's this fatigue abouthaving to explain the challenges
(18:09):
that we've had to go through,and I'll give you this example.
Paul, you and I talked aboutthis before, entering a room
being the only black person orthe only black face in that
room.
If you flip that to my whitecolleagues, my question to them
would be, how would you feel?
How would you manage that if youwent through life like that?
(18:30):
All the time.
How would you navigate thosesituations?
I think what I would like to sayis that we need to be
empathetic, but we also need tobe careful at understanding the
path, understanding our historyof where we've come from.
I know people are really quickto say, why are we having these
(18:52):
racial conversations?
Black people just got the rightto vote in 1965.
So I feel like we've been inthis struggle for a while.
We've come a long way with it,but there's still a long way to
go so I think that we just needto come from a sense of empathy
when we're having theseconversations and to have them
really understand what yourblack colleagues and your black
(19:15):
friends have to deal with andwhat we go through.
Paul (19:19):
You mentioned being exhausted, and I remember having
a conversation with a colleaguewho's a black male right after
George Floyd and I brought up,what can I do?
Yeah.
And one of the things he saidis, you can start getting
educated so I can stop havingthis conversation with you.
And that's really the first timeI was like, holy smokes, this is
(19:39):
truly on me.
It's not on him.
It's on me to understand what myrole is.
And from that moment.
I've really started to take anactive role in reading.
Yeah.
And listening and elevatingcolleagues around me that aren't
white.
Hope (19:52):
Yeah, and there's so much of our rich history that's just
swept under the rug.
When I went through high school,I never had a black teacher.
I still haven't, in all of theyears of my education, I never
had a a black teacher.
I don't remember there being alot about black history when I
was going through high school.
The things that I learned aboutblack history are the things
(20:12):
that I picked up on later aftercollege and readings that I've
been doing now.
There hasn't been this effort toreally educate, so I think that
we all have a responsibility,just like you just said, let's
do the research.
Let's really learn about this.
Mm-hmm.
Paul (20:30):
When you pivoted in your leadership journey, when you put
faith forward and you started toleverage your sisterhood, how
significant was that for you?
Hope (20:43):
It was really significant for me.
My faith is the basis foreverything that I've done.
I think that's really driven alot of the decisions that I've
made in life.
But having my sisterhood aswell, I've learned a lot from
the leaders within the sorority.
What I picked up from it is thisconcept of servant leadership.
(21:03):
How can I help others?
And then how can I give back toothers as well?
How can I take what I've learnedand make sure that people that
are less fortunate that they canlearn from that?
Or how can I help someone out tojust give someone else a hand to
help them to navigate thejourney that they're going
through?
By giving them, details of whatI had to experience.
(21:25):
So it's been pivotal for mebecause I remember just when I
was much younger, not havingthat voice, but then leaning on
my faith to say, okay, I'vegotta do this.
I never expected myself to haveto be a, a single mom of two
little boys that are 18 monthsapart.
I never expected that I wasgoing to have the career that I
(21:47):
had.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
So I got into tech sales.
I, I did hear some peopletelling me you need to have a
career where you're in an officeall the time where you don't
have to travel.
I didn't want that for me.
I've always leaned towards doingmore complex things.
I wanna do something hardbecause I like to challenge
(22:08):
myself.
So I had a, a community.
I had a village that helped me.
To raise my boys.
As I was going through it, I wasalways striving to be better,
and in that quest to be better.
It was just, okay, how can Iwork on myself?
How can I make sure that I havea life that's good for my boys?
Because I wanted them to see meworking hard.
(22:29):
I.
So that they in turn, would seewhat that work ethic was like,
and they would be able to takethat on for themselves and then
leave it to their generationsafter them
Paul (22:38):
I know when you were in college, you were thrown a
pivot, you were going to pursueone thing, and then life
happened and you were forced tochange direction.
How did you navigate that pivot?
Hope (22:48):
So when I was in college, I was a biochemistry major, and
I thought that after I finishedwith that, that I wanted to go
to medical school.
The last year that I was incollege, I ended up, I was
pregnant, right?
And so I had this baby in Julyafter I graduated that summer.
And so I was faced with, okay,what am I going to do?
(23:11):
My partner and I, he hadrecently graduated as well.
Things didn't work out with him.
So the pivot that I made was,okay, it's not just me that I
now have to take care of.
So I've just recently finishedcollege.
I don't think I'm gonna go tomedical school at this point.
What are you going to do?
Hope?
How are you going to support notonly yourself, but you have
(23:34):
someone else who you'reresponsible for?
Now I started working, right?
I got one of my first jobs waswith at and t and I started this
career in sales there, and thatsort of catapulted me to getting
into tech sales.
The way I navigated it, Paul,was that I knew that medical
school wasn't necessarily in thecards for me.
(23:54):
But this is now where I am andwhere I am was I was going to
make the best of the opportunitythat I had been given and be the
best in that role.
And I've been doing the samething year after year as I've
made decisions about my careerand where I am in it.
Paul (24:10):
When the pivot happened, you were like, okay, I've gotta
do something.
So you put your head down, youchose a career path, and you've
made the best of it.
And now you understand there'sstrength in this for myself.
Hope (24:22):
Yeah, and I think too, once you make that decision to
do something, don't do ithalfway.
If you're gonna commit to do it,then commit to doing it 100%.
Paul (24:32):
If there's one thing you want listeners to take away from
your story and experience, whatwould that be?
Hope (24:37):
I would say resilience because I feel like I've been
driven since I was.
A little girl.
I always wanted to be the bestat everything that I did.
I was always very competitive,but it wasn't always easy, and
so I had to figure out how toget through some obstacles and I
(24:58):
had a good village around me.
I had people that supported me.
I had a great network.
I remember at one point in mycareer, some of the best advice
that I got from one of mymentors was, you need to build
your own, personal board ofdirectors.
And I was able to do that.
And every.
Organization that I've workedfor, every company that I've
(25:20):
left, I feel like I haverelationships with those people.
I can still reach back to peopleand.
I consider them a friend wherelike you and I, Paul, I know
that the first conversation thatI had with you, I remember that
conversation and it was just abond that I felt that you and I
had with each other.
I try to make those connectionsno matter what, because I think
(25:43):
that those connections, you needthem because in addition to the
resilience.
Those connections is theconnective tissue that actually
helps you to get through thechallenges that you have.
Paul (25:54):
I, I appreciate the conversation today.
Hope I've heard the power ofyour faith, the power of, as you
say, connections, but bothwithin your sorority, your
grandmother, the community, tounderstand the power of your
voice and how you lean in andrecognizing that sometimes
adversity is going to happen andyou need to pivot.
(26:16):
And put your head down and seekanother solution.
Hope (26:19):
Yeah, that's key.
Just keep going.
Never give up is the mantra.
And another mantra that I haveis enjoy the moment, right?
We never know what's around thebend, so enjoy the moment.
Perfect.
Paul (26:32):
I think I'll leave it right there.
Thank you so much for joining uson this episode of Courageous
Conversations.
I hope you found today'sdiscussion as inspiring and
thought provoking as I did aspecial thank you to our guest,
hope for sharing her journey andinsights.
If you've enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe.
Leave a review and share it withsomeone who could benefit from
(26:52):
this conversation.
We've got some exciting guestslined up for our next episode,
so make sure to tune in.
You won't wanna miss it.
Until then, stay curious, staycourageous, and keep the
conversations in your lifeflowing.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.