April 9, 2025 • 26 mins
What if your path to sobriety revealed something much deeper than freedom from addiction? Rich Shellnutt knows this journey intimately. With 34 years of sobriety under his belt, he sits down with his wife Tonya to unpack how alcohol gradually infiltrated his life, one drink at a time, and the profound awakening that followed his recovery.
Behind Rich's addiction lay a complex web of pain – abandonment issues from an absent father, the early loss of his grandfather, learning disabilities that set him apart from peers, and the profound insecurity these experiences created. When the Navy mandated treatment after a night of trouble, what began as Rich's "vacation" from military duties became the gateway to confronting these buried wounds. His candid reflections reveal how alcohol merely masked his inability to process rejection, insecurity, and a deep-seated anger that frequently erupted in violence.
The conversation tackles the particular challenge men face in seeking help – the pressure to "have it all together" that keeps many trapped in silent suffering. Rich's powerful testimony cuts through this misconception: "Once you surrender that you have to do it on your own, the healing truly starts." Through his experience with AA, counseling, and ultimately a transformative faith journey, Rich discovered that changing his environment, thinking patterns, and social circles were essential components of lasting sobriety.
Perhaps most stirring is Rich's reflection on what 34 years sober has taught him: "Sobriety has taught me how much love matters in this world... all I really wanted was to be loved." His profound insight that "people disappoint but God never does" speaks to anyone seeking lasting healing from addiction or emotional wounds. Whether you're struggling yourself or supporting someone who is, Rich's journey offers both practical wisdom and spiritual hope for the path forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya Shellnutt (00:10):
Welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt,and it's April, and we are
focusing on addiction this month.
Last week, we talked about myaddiction journey and the 30
years of sobriety that I havebeen on the journey and the ups
and the downs, and also wetalked a little bit about some
of the warning signs that youmight have a problem.
(00:33):
And in the next couple of weeks, I want to highlight some
guests who have had their ownjourney of addiction, and I
always bring on my favoriteguest first and that's Rich, my
husband.
Many of you know that he, too,is a recovering alcoholic.
He has been sober for 34 yearsand has been very instrumental
(00:55):
in helping me in my journey, andI'm so thankful for him.
And so, rich, I want you tojust be vulnerable and share
with our audience, because Ithink it's really important for
people to understand that, as Isaid in my podcast last week,
addiction doesn't care who youare.
It comes for you one drink at atime.
(01:16):
It doesn't care who your statusis, it just it comes for you.
And so what was the turningpoint in your life that made you
realize that alcohol hadcontrol over you?
Rich Shellnutt (01:28):
Well, I think you know alcohol can sneak up on
you.
Like you said, you don't reallyknow that it's affecting you
that bad, but eventually youstart noticing that your
friendships start changing.
The friends that used to hangout with you no longer hang out
with you, and you know.
So you start finding morepeople that you associate with
(01:52):
that you can get along with,because they have usually the
same problems you have.
But I think once it startedhappening and my own family
started kind of getting upsetwith me because I was drunk all
the time, didn't know what I wasdoing.
Also, I didn't really like whoI was when I was drinking
because, you know, it got so badthat I couldn't even remember
(02:15):
all the things that I was doing,and so I'd have to rely on my
family and friends and differentpeople to tell me the stories
the night before of what I did.
And you know, most people thatdrink don't drink themselves
into oblivion to not even beable to remember what they were
doing.
And the real turning point wasthat I didn't like who I was and
(02:38):
I didn't want to live anymore.
And alcohol turned on me to thepoint where I didn't even want
to live and so I knew there wasonly one or two things that I
did in the rest of my life.
I either killed myself or Ifigured out a way to deal with
it.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:55):
Right, and that was at that point that you well
, why don't you share with ouraudience a little bit about what
happened that got you to aplace of getting help?
Rich Shellnutt (03:10):
Well, the Navy got me some help, whether I
wanted it or not, so which was atrue blessing.
During the 90s, alcohol wasrampant through the military
forces and we had to deal with,you know, people getting in
trouble and getting out of themilitary and then coming home
(03:32):
but being alcoholics.
So the navy and the militaryput in a a process before if you
get in trouble with alcohol,you have to go to treatment, and
so at my time I was convincedthat being away for treatment
was like a vacation, because Icould get away from the military
(03:56):
base, which was, you know,hectic.
But hey, I was like sure I'llgo to treatment.
So I got in trouble one night,got in a fight, got to be UA in
the military, and my commandingofficer gave me two choices get
kicked out of the military or gofor treatment.
So I went for treatment, and itwas in treatment where I finally
(04:17):
figured out how bad of analcoholic I really was, and so
that's how I started my sobrietyjourney.
Tonya Shellnutt (04:26):
Well, addiction often masks deeper pain.
You know you talked about howyou didn't like yourself and
that you, you know you wanted todie basically.
So what pain were you trying toescape and how did you begin to
heal it?
Rich Shellnutt (04:42):
Well, I mean through extensive counseling.
You know, you have to startworking through things that
you're blinded to in your life,that you didn't really know you
were struggling with.
You know, if you would ask meat the moment, in the time when
I was going through treatment,what I struggled with was
alcohol Right, alcohol right,and that was just the symptom of
(05:09):
what I did to cover up and maskall my insecurities and all my
feelings and all my I guess youwould say issues that I was
going through.
That I dealt with, you know,with feeling like I was
abandoned by my father.
Why did not someone want to bewith me?
How do I deal with rejection?
And my insecurities was, youknow, I did two things I drank
(05:32):
or I was a comedian, right, Iwas always trying to be funny.
I was trying to always hide upmy hide, my, you know who I was.
You know, because I wasembarrassed of who I was, you
know, and I didn't like myself.
So I'd try to be differentpeople.
I was kind of a chameleon.
I didn't know what group I'd fitin, you know, I didn't know
where I was supposed to be.
(05:52):
I didn't know whether to hangout with jocks.
I didn't know whether to hangout with freaks, I didn't know
whether to normal people whichyou would call normal.
But we all have our own issues.
But you know, just searchingdeep within what made me tick,
you know, and until I had somecounseling, and you know, we all
(06:15):
have mommy and daddy issues,you know, but some of them are
worse than others.
You know, I didn't grow up in a, you know, a poor family or
unloving family, you know, itwas just there were some times
in my life where I rejected somethings that were going to make
(06:36):
me feel more insecure and I justwas trying to find myself and I
don't know how to explain it.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:45):
Well, I mean, you had obviously your birth.
Dad wasn't around, he washardly ever around.
You lost your grandfather, whowas very important to you at a
young age, and then you also hadsome learning disabilities and
you shared that a little bitwith our audience.
(07:05):
But why don't you share alittle bit about that and how
that all worked to create, likeyou were saying, the insecurity
and how you didn't like yourselfand you felt indifferent?
Rich Shellnutt (07:17):
Well, I mean, most of it was just feeling not
up to par with my peers.
Right, my education was poor.
I wasn't catching on as quickas the other kids.
I was in special needs classes.
I did a lot of different thingsthat kind of set me apart from
(07:38):
everybody.
It made me feel indifferent.
So once those insecuritiesstarted building into my life, I
was trying to hide them and Ididn't know how to face them,
and so the way I was facing themwas drinking alcohol and
ignoring them.
And that's when it snuck up onme to where it became an
addiction and a cover-up for meto be able to not deal with my
(08:01):
fears and my you, you know myinadequacies, and I didn't have
a structure to really walk methrough that.
But yeah, the one father figureI did have in my life I lost,
you know, at a young age, whichwas my grandfather, and so that
kind of sent me into a biggerspiral.
And you know, we all deal withloss in a different way.
(08:23):
But, you know, at that momentin time I didn't have much
guidance in how to deal withthat.
So instead of dealing with it,I'd ignore it and, you know,
cover it up and keep, you know,building walls up, so I didn't
have to deal with it and dealwith my feelings, and you know,
eventually.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:41):
You were very angry, too, right, I mean you
were, you had a lot of anger.
Rich Shellnutt (08:46):
I was yeah, I was very violent, came out
sideways and then it came outphysically, you know.
It'll it later on in age, whenI got older, you know, I fought
a lot, lost a lot, won a lot.
Didn't matter, I was just angry.
So, you know, got into a lot ofsituations that almost put my
(09:10):
life in danger several times,but that still didn't stop me
from drinking, you know.
Tonya Shellnutt (09:16):
So you had all this pain, you had all these
things you were going through.
You were, you know, masking thepain by drinking.
You go to the Navy, they putyou through treatment.
What happens next in yourjourney when, once you get
through treatment, then you knowshare with our audience a
(09:38):
little bit about what that waslike.
Rich Shellnutt (09:40):
And then, in the next steps of your journey,
Well, I think for a lot ofpeople you know that deal with
sobriety, they have to changepeople, places and things.
You know so where I would findmyself, I no longer were able to
be.
You know, the people I hung outwith I had to change because
all those peer groups that Icreated around me were having
(10:03):
the same issues I had.
So you know I needed to changethat and so I think, once I
learned that I could do that andfound people that struggled and
went through the same programthat I went through, which was
AA, and I could startidentifying the struggles that
they had and what they had to do.
(10:24):
You know I was led by that.
You know, I was given a way tokind of follow some steps to
really, you know, work throughwhat was really going on, which
it wasn't the alcohol, it wasjust dealing with the
inaccuracies of my life, youknow, not taking responsibility
(10:44):
for my actions but covering themup.
You know.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:48):
Let's stop there for a second because you
know, maybe we have an audiencemember that's listening and
maybe they're not entirely, youknow an addict, but they have,
you know, anger or some sidewaysbehavior and I think and
correct me if I'm wrong on thisbut for men specifically, it is
(11:11):
a little bit more difficult toseek help because there's this
idea that you have to have itall together and that seeking
help is a sign of weakness.
So talk to our audience alittle bit about the importance
of seeking help, and youstruggled with it too.
I remember you sharing sometimes when your mom had sent you
(11:35):
to a psychologist and youstruggled, but then you know
what you've learned over theyears and the importance of
getting some help and thebalance of that, because it's
not you don't need help all thetime, it's a balance.
So can you share that with ouraudience?
Sure.
Rich Shellnutt (11:53):
I think when you're trying to put the pieces
together of who you are and whatyou are, you need some mentors
in your life and you have tobelieve in something that's
bigger than you, and if you keepgoing under your own advice,
you're going to end up at thesame place.
And so you know getting godlyand counsel from people that
(12:21):
have done the same things in thesame life.
We're not far apart from eachother.
We've all gone down the samepaths in some way, with
struggles right.
But having someone that haslived through that that you can
more relate with is helpful,because you only have your
testimony in your life.
And so when you learn from themhow they've gone through life,
(12:45):
and you know you're going totake it your own direction, but
at least you know that you havea peer group that you can have
confidence in.
And one of the things that yousaid about men is you know we
think we have to have it alltogether.
You know that we don't needadvice.
We don't need.
You know we got to figure itout on our own.
And once you surrender that youknow and quit thinking you have
(13:05):
to do it on your own, you knowthe healing truly starts.
But in order to do that, youhave to come to an understanding
(13:37):
that what I've been doing isnot someone else's fault.
It's my own and I have to takeresponsibility for that.
I can change the outcome, butuntil I take responsibility for
it, it doesn't change.
You keep blaming other thingsin your life that causes this
issue.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:44):
So, practically speaking, how would somebody
who is struggling right now,what would be your advice to
them, to go for help, to find amentor or reach out?
What would your advice be onthat?
Rich Shellnutt (13:58):
Well, I always suggest that you go to, you know
a counselor or AA.
You know that deals with justgetting you started right,
sending you on the right path.
First of all, you know,sometimes we're chemically
addicted to these products andwe have to do something in order
, drastic changes in our life,in order to get away from it.
(14:20):
Enough for you to feel like I'mfree from this, that I don't
have to do it every day of mylife, you're not chemically
dependent on it anymore.
You've worked through it right.
But then you have to changeyour environment.
You have to change yourthinking.
You have to change yourthinking.
You have to change your heart,you have to change the people
you're hanging around withnonstop, and you have to be
(14:42):
willing to do that.
If you're not willing to do it,you can't have a farther bottom
.
And the amazing thing aboutlife is when you think someone's
truly in the tank as far asthey possibly can go.
They can go farther and that'samazing to you.
But you're like, it can getdarker, it can get, you know,
(15:05):
heavier, and you know, untilyou're willing to change that
and admit that you know, myadvice is to seek help.
You know, make sure that you'redoing what someone else tells
you to do at the time.
You know it's just like if youhad a mentor in life and you
wanted to get to that, to wherethey were going or where they're
(15:25):
at.
You have to do those steps inorder to get where that person's
at, and so you know it worksbecause it's worked for them.
Right, they have the same story.
They have the same story.
They have the same issues.
They've had the same bringingup, you know all that and
getting in those peer groupsthat's what will help you do.
That is, you recognize that,hey, there's other people that
(15:46):
have lived through this andthere's a way out of it.
And you got to believe in itand you've got to trust it.
Tonya Shellnutt (15:52):
So what role did your faith play in your
recovery?
Rich Shellnutt (15:57):
My faith was amazing.
God was amazing to me.
You know, I have to admit thatI quit at a very young age, at
23, you know, so that in itselfwas a blessing.
God had me in this particularspot in my life where I couldn't
run away from it anymore.
(16:17):
I had to deal with it.
And you know, I truly believein the healing power of God.
And so my faith has brought meto the point where, you know, I
don't struggle with alcohol atall.
I don't struggle with addiction.
I may struggle with otherthings, but my train of thought
has completely changed.
(16:38):
So if I'm in a stressfulsituation, if I'm having a hard
time, my first thoughts now areoh, I'm just going to drink it
away.
I don't have those thoughtsanymore.
Or a hot sunny day, you know,and be nice to have a beer, you
know, or something like that.
I mean, those thoughts do notcome to my mind anymore.
You know, now mine's like ohnice sunny day, man, I'd like to
(17:00):
be out fishing, you know, orsomething like that.
So my train of thought hascompletely changed and that's
what God did for me.
He healed my heart, he healedmy thinking.
Tonya Shellnutt (17:32):
And so I don't struggle with a desire to even
do that in my life anymore.
I feel like he's just.
You know immediately everything.
All the trouble was gone.
It's a journey.
So share a little bit aboutsome of the daily and weekly
practices you put into play tohelp you build your faith
journey, to keep you sober.
Rich Shellnutt (17:48):
Well, the power of prayer is you know to keep
you sober.
Well, the power of prayer is.
You know the daily walk withGod.
When you're praying and youstart seeing these, you know
prayers come to fruition.
Then you trust in somethingelse.
You know.
At first you know not everyprayer that I prayed came true,
but over time you know being inHis Word and walking with Him
(18:10):
and being with godly people.
And you know walking in faith.
You know you don't see it.
You come across it by seeingthe miracles happening in your
life, right?
So one day, you know somealcoholic might go I can't think
about not having a drink todayWell, he might go two days
without seeing a drink.
You know he might go four dayswithout wanting a drink.
(18:31):
He might go five days withoutwanting a drink today.
Well, he might go two dayswithout seeing a drink.
You know he might go four dayswithout wanting a drink.
He might go five days withoutwanting a drink.
You know that's the program,that's the.
You know the belief in seeingsomething working in your life.
So it's a day in, day outpractice that I've disciplined
myself to be able to pray to Godand have a personal
relationship with Him, day inand day out.
(18:52):
And when I start seeing it work.
That creates more faith, thatcreates more understanding.
And when that starts to grow,it gets bigger and bigger, and
bigger and bigger, until youjust start to rely on it and you
see it all the time and youjust believe in it all the time.
And that's how my journey went.
I didn't, you know, I didn'tjust miraculously get healed.
(19:14):
You know, I wish that was thecase, but it's not.
I mean, it took time to workthrough all the struggles that I
had to go through in my life.
You know, I'd love to be ableto just do miraculous healing
for everybody, but that's justnot how it works.
Be able to just do miraculoushealing for everybody, but
that's just not how it works.
Part of the healing is istraining you, you know, to trust
(19:35):
in something that's bigger thanyou.
And if he just did it foreverybody like that, I don't
think you'd have that trust.
You know, I don't think hewould build that personal
relationship with you, you know.
And so you have to continuouslywork on, you know, first of all
, finding out what makes youtick right, why you're
frustrated, why you're upset,why you don't like who you are,
(19:58):
who you're supposed to be, whydid God put you on this earth.
You know who do you.
You know who do you need toforgive.
You know who do you need to askfor forgiveness from you know,
because that all heals the soul.
Ask for forgiveness from youknow, because that all heals the
soul and that's where AA, youknow, for me, you know, started
(20:20):
the process you know the 12steps that started that process
of that journey, right?
So there's different programsyou know, a lot of people talk
about higher powers.
A lot of people talk aboutbelieving in something bigger,
whether it's a universe, whetherit's whatever.
But to me the understanding isGod created all and he created a
way for me to live in thisworld.
And so that's what I've done.
You know day in and day out.
(20:41):
You know Right.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:43):
So what has sobriety taught you about
yourself?
That addiction never allowedyou to see, or just what?
Rich Shellnutt (20:52):
has sobriety taught you about yourself?
I think sobriety has taught mehow much love matters in this
world for others and how angerjust creates division, which I
was an angry young man and all Ireally wanted was to be loved
in this world, and sobriety hastaught me that that's what most
(21:13):
people want.
They want to be accepted andloved.
So that's what sobriety hastaught me.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:17):
You're making me cry, you get me all choked up
on that.
One Great answer, and it'scompletely true.
I think that is definitely whatit was for me.
I just wanted to be loved and Ithink probably everyone
listening to this it'll probablybe the same thing.
So, on that note, as I gathermyself, if someone is listening
(21:41):
and struggling right now andfeeling hopeless, what is one
piece of truth or hope that youwould want to share with them?
That people disappoint and Godnever does.
That is a profound truth thatyou used to share with me too.
So I want you to expand alittle bit on that, because it
(22:05):
is a really good statement, andshare with our audience a little
bit more about what you mean onthat.
Rich Shellnutt (22:08):
Well, I think you got to recognize that we're
a fallen world and so peopledon't always understand what is
needed by each individual.
So sometimes, you know, wecan't tell what the other person
is feeling or going throughbecause we don't have, we can't
(22:30):
think of what other people arethinking.
So we say things and we hurtpeople because we don't have, we
can't think of what otherpeople are thinking.
So we say things and we hurtpeople, but we don't mean to.
You know we may be jokingaround or we may be playing, and
that's okay, but you know wehave to be honest enough with
each other to let people knowwhat you're really going through
.
And if someone's joking withyou and playing around and
(22:51):
you're like, look, I'm a littlehurt by this, I don't understand
what you're saying, but I knowyou're joking.
But I just need to be loved andto get that, there's only one
person that can truly show youunconditional love, and that's
God.
And so when we seek somethinglike that, I would make sure
(23:12):
that you're going to the onetrue person that can only give
you that, and that's your lordand savior.
And so I had to learn that.
But I still had to learn thatpeople want to be loved, but
even though the ones that areclose to you like you, for an
example you know I've hurt, I'vesaid things that upset you
Wasn't my intention, wasn't mypurpose, you know.
(23:36):
But we're fallen people.
We just don't understandeverything that's going on at
the time and that moment thatyou're saying things.
So we hurt each other, wedisappoint each other, and so I
guess I expand on that by beingvery careful with how you are
approaching people in this world.
If you're seeking people tofill your love tank, that will
(24:01):
never happen.
It won't.
I mean you feel love, sometimesyou feel unloved, and so it's a
continuous battle, but the onething I can tell you is, every
time I seek God's love, it neverdisappoints me.
He shows me what true lovemeans, and he identifies when
I've hurt others.
He identifies when I maybe needto make amends with people on
(24:24):
things that I might have said atthe moment in time, and so he's
the only one that can revealthe true love that people are
seeking, and so that's why youalways have to be seeking the
person that can show you truelove, and that's Jesus Christ,
our Lord and Savior.
Tonya Shellnutt (24:40):
Yeah, I was seeking, I had expectations for
(25:01):
others to fill the tank insteadof God, and that was
disappointing.
So, rich, we're going tounfortunately have to wrap up,
but thank you for beingvulnerable and sharing with our
audience today.
And I would just say that ifyou're struggling with addiction
or you have a loved one that'sstruggling with addiction, I
just want to encourage you toseek help, whether you go see a
(25:24):
counselor or a pastor, or you goto an AA meeting or a Celebrate
Recovery meeting.
There are so many options outthere and, you know, share this
episode with them, because theyneed to hear the hope of Christ
and they need to hear the hopeof the sobriety journey.
And also, I would just ask thatyou would leave a five-star
(25:46):
review and then, if you want toconnect, follow me at
tonyashellnutt.
com and that's with two t's, andstay tuned for next week when
we have another guest who willbe sharing their journey as well
.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And we appreciate you all thank you for joining us
here on courageous overcomerswith tonya shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
(26:19):
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tonya
at tonyashellnutt.
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Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt,and it's April, and we are
focusing on addiction this month.
Last week, we talked about myaddiction journey and the 30
years of sobriety that I havebeen on the journey and the ups
and the downs, and also wetalked a little bit about some
of the warning signs that youmight have a problem.
(00:33):
And in the next couple of weeks, I want to highlight some
guests who have had their ownjourney of addiction, and I
always bring on my favoriteguest first and that's Rich, my
husband.
Many of you know that he, too,is a recovering alcoholic.
He has been sober for 34 yearsand has been very instrumental
(00:55):
in helping me in my journey, andI'm so thankful for him.
And so, rich, I want you tojust be vulnerable and share
with our audience, because Ithink it's really important for
people to understand that, as Isaid in my podcast last week,
addiction doesn't care who youare.
It comes for you one drink at atime.
(01:16):
It doesn't care who your statusis, it just it comes for you.
And so what was the turningpoint in your life that made you
realize that alcohol hadcontrol over you?
Rich Shellnutt (01:28):
Well, I think you know alcohol can sneak up on
you.
Like you said, you don't reallyknow that it's affecting you
that bad, but eventually youstart noticing that your
friendships start changing.
The friends that used to hangout with you no longer hang out
with you, and you know.
So you start finding morepeople that you associate with
(01:52):
that you can get along with,because they have usually the
same problems you have.
But I think once it startedhappening and my own family
started kind of getting upsetwith me because I was drunk all
the time, didn't know what I wasdoing.
Also, I didn't really like whoI was when I was drinking
because, you know, it got so badthat I couldn't even remember
(02:15):
all the things that I was doing,and so I'd have to rely on my
family and friends and differentpeople to tell me the stories
the night before of what I did.
And you know, most people thatdrink don't drink themselves
into oblivion to not even beable to remember what they were
doing.
And the real turning point wasthat I didn't like who I was and
(02:38):
I didn't want to live anymore.
And alcohol turned on me to thepoint where I didn't even want
to live and so I knew there wasonly one or two things that I
did in the rest of my life.
I either killed myself or Ifigured out a way to deal with
it.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:55):
Right, and that was at that point that you well
, why don't you share with ouraudience a little bit about what
happened that got you to aplace of getting help?
Rich Shellnutt (03:10):
Well, the Navy got me some help, whether I
wanted it or not, so which was atrue blessing.
During the 90s, alcohol wasrampant through the military
forces and we had to deal with,you know, people getting in
trouble and getting out of themilitary and then coming home
(03:32):
but being alcoholics.
So the navy and the militaryput in a a process before if you
get in trouble with alcohol,you have to go to treatment, and
so at my time I was convincedthat being away for treatment
was like a vacation, because Icould get away from the military
(03:56):
base, which was, you know,hectic.
But hey, I was like sure I'llgo to treatment.
So I got in trouble one night,got in a fight, got to be UA in
the military, and my commandingofficer gave me two choices get
kicked out of the military or gofor treatment.
So I went for treatment, and itwas in treatment where I finally
(04:17):
figured out how bad of analcoholic I really was, and so
that's how I started my sobrietyjourney.
Tonya Shellnutt (04:26):
Well, addiction often masks deeper pain.
You know you talked about howyou didn't like yourself and
that you, you know you wanted todie basically.
So what pain were you trying toescape and how did you begin to
heal it?
Rich Shellnutt (04:42):
Well, I mean through extensive counseling.
You know, you have to startworking through things that
you're blinded to in your life,that you didn't really know you
were struggling with.
You know, if you would ask meat the moment, in the time when
I was going through treatment,what I struggled with was
alcohol Right, alcohol right,and that was just the symptom of
(05:09):
what I did to cover up and maskall my insecurities and all my
feelings and all my I guess youwould say issues that I was
going through.
That I dealt with, you know,with feeling like I was
abandoned by my father.
Why did not someone want to bewith me?
How do I deal with rejection?
And my insecurities was, youknow, I did two things I drank
(05:32):
or I was a comedian, right, Iwas always trying to be funny.
I was trying to always hide upmy hide, my, you know who I was.
You know, because I wasembarrassed of who I was, you
know, and I didn't like myself.
So I'd try to be differentpeople.
I was kind of a chameleon.
I didn't know what group I'd fitin, you know, I didn't know
where I was supposed to be.
(05:52):
I didn't know whether to hangout with jocks.
I didn't know whether to hangout with freaks, I didn't know
whether to normal people whichyou would call normal.
But we all have our own issues.
But you know, just searchingdeep within what made me tick,
you know, and until I had somecounseling, and you know, we all
(06:15):
have mommy and daddy issues,you know, but some of them are
worse than others.
You know, I didn't grow up in a, you know, a poor family or
unloving family, you know, itwas just there were some times
in my life where I rejected somethings that were going to make
(06:36):
me feel more insecure and I justwas trying to find myself and I
don't know how to explain it.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:45):
Well, I mean, you had obviously your birth.
Dad wasn't around, he washardly ever around.
You lost your grandfather, whowas very important to you at a
young age, and then you also hadsome learning disabilities and
you shared that a little bitwith our audience.
(07:05):
But why don't you share alittle bit about that and how
that all worked to create, likeyou were saying, the insecurity
and how you didn't like yourselfand you felt indifferent?
Rich Shellnutt (07:17):
Well, I mean, most of it was just feeling not
up to par with my peers.
Right, my education was poor.
I wasn't catching on as quickas the other kids.
I was in special needs classes.
I did a lot of different thingsthat kind of set me apart from
(07:38):
everybody.
It made me feel indifferent.
So once those insecuritiesstarted building into my life, I
was trying to hide them and Ididn't know how to face them,
and so the way I was facing themwas drinking alcohol and
ignoring them.
And that's when it snuck up onme to where it became an
addiction and a cover-up for meto be able to not deal with my
(08:01):
fears and my you, you know myinadequacies, and I didn't have
a structure to really walk methrough that.
But yeah, the one father figureI did have in my life I lost,
you know, at a young age, whichwas my grandfather, and so that
kind of sent me into a biggerspiral.
And you know, we all deal withloss in a different way.
(08:23):
But, you know, at that momentin time I didn't have much
guidance in how to deal withthat.
So instead of dealing with it,I'd ignore it and, you know,
cover it up and keep, you know,building walls up, so I didn't
have to deal with it and dealwith my feelings, and you know,
eventually.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:41):
You were very angry, too, right, I mean you
were, you had a lot of anger.
Rich Shellnutt (08:46):
I was yeah, I was very violent, came out
sideways and then it came outphysically, you know.
It'll it later on in age, whenI got older, you know, I fought
a lot, lost a lot, won a lot.
Didn't matter, I was just angry.
So, you know, got into a lot ofsituations that almost put my
(09:10):
life in danger several times,but that still didn't stop me
from drinking, you know.
Tonya Shellnutt (09:16):
So you had all this pain, you had all these
things you were going through.
You were, you know, masking thepain by drinking.
You go to the Navy, they putyou through treatment.
What happens next in yourjourney when, once you get
through treatment, then you knowshare with our audience a
(09:38):
little bit about what that waslike.
Rich Shellnutt (09:40):
And then, in the next steps of your journey,
Well, I think for a lot ofpeople you know that deal with
sobriety, they have to changepeople, places and things.
You know so where I would findmyself, I no longer were able to
be.
You know, the people I hung outwith I had to change because
all those peer groups that Icreated around me were having
(10:03):
the same issues I had.
So you know I needed to changethat and so I think, once I
learned that I could do that andfound people that struggled and
went through the same programthat I went through, which was
AA, and I could startidentifying the struggles that
they had and what they had to do.
(10:24):
You know I was led by that.
You know, I was given a way tokind of follow some steps to
really, you know, work throughwhat was really going on, which
it wasn't the alcohol, it wasjust dealing with the
inaccuracies of my life, youknow, not taking responsibility
(10:44):
for my actions but covering themup.
You know.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:48):
Let's stop there for a second because you
know, maybe we have an audiencemember that's listening and
maybe they're not entirely, youknow an addict, but they have,
you know, anger or some sidewaysbehavior and I think and
correct me if I'm wrong on thisbut for men specifically, it is
(11:11):
a little bit more difficult toseek help because there's this
idea that you have to have itall together and that seeking
help is a sign of weakness.
So talk to our audience alittle bit about the importance
of seeking help, and youstruggled with it too.
I remember you sharing sometimes when your mom had sent you
(11:35):
to a psychologist and youstruggled, but then you know
what you've learned over theyears and the importance of
getting some help and thebalance of that, because it's
not you don't need help all thetime, it's a balance.
So can you share that with ouraudience?
Sure.
Rich Shellnutt (11:53):
I think when you're trying to put the pieces
together of who you are and whatyou are, you need some mentors
in your life and you have tobelieve in something that's
bigger than you, and if you keepgoing under your own advice,
you're going to end up at thesame place.
And so you know getting godlyand counsel from people that
(12:21):
have done the same things in thesame life.
We're not far apart from eachother.
We've all gone down the samepaths in some way, with
struggles right.
But having someone that haslived through that that you can
more relate with is helpful,because you only have your
testimony in your life.
And so when you learn from themhow they've gone through life,
(12:45):
and you know you're going totake it your own direction, but
at least you know that you havea peer group that you can have
confidence in.
And one of the things that yousaid about men is you know we
think we have to have it alltogether.
You know that we don't needadvice.
We don't need.
You know we got to figure itout on our own.
And once you surrender that youknow and quit thinking you have
(13:05):
to do it on your own, you knowthe healing truly starts.
But in order to do that, youhave to come to an understanding
(13:37):
that what I've been doing isnot someone else's fault.
It's my own and I have to takeresponsibility for that.
I can change the outcome, butuntil I take responsibility for
it, it doesn't change.
You keep blaming other thingsin your life that causes this
issue.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:44):
So, practically speaking, how would somebody
who is struggling right now,what would be your advice to
them, to go for help, to find amentor or reach out?
What would your advice be onthat?
Rich Shellnutt (13:58):
Well, I always suggest that you go to, you know
a counselor or AA.
You know that deals with justgetting you started right,
sending you on the right path.
First of all, you know,sometimes we're chemically
addicted to these products andwe have to do something in order
, drastic changes in our life,in order to get away from it.
(14:20):
Enough for you to feel like I'mfree from this, that I don't
have to do it every day of mylife, you're not chemically
dependent on it anymore.
You've worked through it right.
But then you have to changeyour environment.
You have to change yourthinking.
You have to change yourthinking.
You have to change your heart,you have to change the people
you're hanging around withnonstop, and you have to be
(14:42):
willing to do that.
If you're not willing to do it,you can't have a farther bottom
.
And the amazing thing aboutlife is when you think someone's
truly in the tank as far asthey possibly can go.
They can go farther and that'samazing to you.
But you're like, it can getdarker, it can get, you know,
(15:05):
heavier, and you know, untilyou're willing to change that
and admit that you know, myadvice is to seek help.
You know, make sure that you'redoing what someone else tells
you to do at the time.
You know it's just like if youhad a mentor in life and you
wanted to get to that, to wherethey were going or where they're
(15:25):
at.
You have to do those steps inorder to get where that person's
at, and so you know it worksbecause it's worked for them.
Right, they have the same story.
They have the same story.
They have the same issues.
They've had the same bringingup, you know all that and
getting in those peer groupsthat's what will help you do.
That is, you recognize that,hey, there's other people that
(15:46):
have lived through this andthere's a way out of it.
And you got to believe in itand you've got to trust it.
Tonya Shellnutt (15:52):
So what role did your faith play in your
recovery?
Rich Shellnutt (15:57):
My faith was amazing.
God was amazing to me.
You know, I have to admit thatI quit at a very young age, at
23, you know, so that in itselfwas a blessing.
God had me in this particularspot in my life where I couldn't
run away from it anymore.
(16:17):
I had to deal with it.
And you know, I truly believein the healing power of God.
And so my faith has brought meto the point where, you know, I
don't struggle with alcohol atall.
I don't struggle with addiction.
I may struggle with otherthings, but my train of thought
has completely changed.
(16:38):
So if I'm in a stressfulsituation, if I'm having a hard
time, my first thoughts now areoh, I'm just going to drink it
away.
I don't have those thoughtsanymore.
Or a hot sunny day, you know,and be nice to have a beer, you
know, or something like that.
I mean, those thoughts do notcome to my mind anymore.
You know, now mine's like ohnice sunny day, man, I'd like to
(17:00):
be out fishing, you know, orsomething like that.
So my train of thought hascompletely changed and that's
what God did for me.
He healed my heart, he healedmy thinking.
Tonya Shellnutt (17:32):
And so I don't struggle with a desire to even
do that in my life anymore.
I feel like he's just.
You know immediately everything.
All the trouble was gone.
It's a journey.
So share a little bit aboutsome of the daily and weekly
practices you put into play tohelp you build your faith
journey, to keep you sober.
Rich Shellnutt (17:48):
Well, the power of prayer is you know to keep
you sober.
Well, the power of prayer is.
You know the daily walk withGod.
When you're praying and youstart seeing these, you know
prayers come to fruition.
Then you trust in somethingelse.
You know.
At first you know not everyprayer that I prayed came true,
but over time you know being inHis Word and walking with Him
(18:10):
and being with godly people.
And you know walking in faith.
You know you don't see it.
You come across it by seeingthe miracles happening in your
life, right?
So one day, you know somealcoholic might go I can't think
about not having a drink todayWell, he might go two days
without seeing a drink.
You know he might go four dayswithout wanting a drink.
(18:31):
He might go five days withoutwanting a drink today.
Well, he might go two dayswithout seeing a drink.
You know he might go four dayswithout wanting a drink.
He might go five days withoutwanting a drink.
You know that's the program,that's the.
You know the belief in seeingsomething working in your life.
So it's a day in, day outpractice that I've disciplined
myself to be able to pray to Godand have a personal
relationship with Him, day inand day out.
(18:52):
And when I start seeing it work.
That creates more faith, thatcreates more understanding.
And when that starts to grow,it gets bigger and bigger, and
bigger and bigger, until youjust start to rely on it and you
see it all the time and youjust believe in it all the time.
And that's how my journey went.
I didn't, you know, I didn'tjust miraculously get healed.
(19:14):
You know, I wish that was thecase, but it's not.
I mean, it took time to workthrough all the struggles that I
had to go through in my life.
You know, I'd love to be ableto just do miraculous healing
for everybody, but that's justnot how it works.
Be able to just do miraculoushealing for everybody, but
that's just not how it works.
Part of the healing is istraining you, you know, to trust
(19:35):
in something that's bigger thanyou.
And if he just did it foreverybody like that, I don't
think you'd have that trust.
You know, I don't think hewould build that personal
relationship with you, you know.
And so you have to continuouslywork on, you know, first of all
, finding out what makes youtick right, why you're
frustrated, why you're upset,why you don't like who you are,
(19:58):
who you're supposed to be, whydid God put you on this earth.
You know who do you.
You know who do you need toforgive.
You know who do you need to askfor forgiveness from you know,
because that all heals the soul.
Ask for forgiveness from youknow, because that all heals the
soul and that's where AA, youknow, for me, you know, started
(20:20):
the process you know the 12steps that started that process
of that journey, right?
So there's different programsyou know, a lot of people talk
about higher powers.
A lot of people talk aboutbelieving in something bigger,
whether it's a universe, whetherit's whatever.
But to me the understanding isGod created all and he created a
way for me to live in thisworld.
And so that's what I've done.
You know day in and day out.
(20:41):
You know Right.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:43):
So what has sobriety taught you about
yourself?
That addiction never allowedyou to see, or just what?
Rich Shellnutt (20:52):
has sobriety taught you about yourself?
I think sobriety has taught mehow much love matters in this
world for others and how angerjust creates division, which I
was an angry young man and all Ireally wanted was to be loved
in this world, and sobriety hastaught me that that's what most
(21:13):
people want.
They want to be accepted andloved.
So that's what sobriety hastaught me.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:17):
You're making me cry, you get me all choked up
on that.
One Great answer, and it'scompletely true.
I think that is definitely whatit was for me.
I just wanted to be loved and Ithink probably everyone
listening to this it'll probablybe the same thing.
So, on that note, as I gathermyself, if someone is listening
(21:41):
and struggling right now andfeeling hopeless, what is one
piece of truth or hope that youwould want to share with them?
That people disappoint and Godnever does.
That is a profound truth thatyou used to share with me too.
So I want you to expand alittle bit on that, because it
(22:05):
is a really good statement, andshare with our audience a little
bit more about what you mean onthat.
Rich Shellnutt (22:08):
Well, I think you got to recognize that we're
a fallen world and so peopledon't always understand what is
needed by each individual.
So sometimes, you know, wecan't tell what the other person
is feeling or going throughbecause we don't have, we can't
(22:30):
think of what other people arethinking.
So we say things and we hurtpeople because we don't have, we
can't think of what otherpeople are thinking.
So we say things and we hurtpeople, but we don't mean to.
You know we may be jokingaround or we may be playing, and
that's okay, but you know wehave to be honest enough with
each other to let people knowwhat you're really going through
.
And if someone's joking withyou and playing around and
(22:51):
you're like, look, I'm a littlehurt by this, I don't understand
what you're saying, but I knowyou're joking.
But I just need to be loved andto get that, there's only one
person that can truly show youunconditional love, and that's
God.
And so when we seek somethinglike that, I would make sure
(23:12):
that you're going to the onetrue person that can only give
you that, and that's your lordand savior.
And so I had to learn that.
But I still had to learn thatpeople want to be loved, but
even though the ones that areclose to you like you, for an
example you know I've hurt, I'vesaid things that upset you
Wasn't my intention, wasn't mypurpose, you know.
(23:36):
But we're fallen people.
We just don't understandeverything that's going on at
the time and that moment thatyou're saying things.
So we hurt each other, wedisappoint each other, and so I
guess I expand on that by beingvery careful with how you are
approaching people in this world.
If you're seeking people tofill your love tank, that will
(24:01):
never happen.
It won't.
I mean you feel love, sometimesyou feel unloved, and so it's a
continuous battle, but the onething I can tell you is, every
time I seek God's love, it neverdisappoints me.
He shows me what true lovemeans, and he identifies when
I've hurt others.
He identifies when I maybe needto make amends with people on
(24:24):
things that I might have said atthe moment in time, and so he's
the only one that can revealthe true love that people are
seeking, and so that's why youalways have to be seeking the
person that can show you truelove, and that's Jesus Christ,
our Lord and Savior.
Tonya Shellnutt (24:40):
Yeah, I was seeking, I had expectations for
(25:01):
others to fill the tank insteadof God, and that was
disappointing.
So, rich, we're going tounfortunately have to wrap up,
but thank you for beingvulnerable and sharing with our
audience today.
And I would just say that ifyou're struggling with addiction
or you have a loved one that'sstruggling with addiction, I
just want to encourage you toseek help, whether you go see a
(25:24):
counselor or a pastor, or you goto an AA meeting or a Celebrate
Recovery meeting.
There are so many options outthere and, you know, share this
episode with them, because theyneed to hear the hope of Christ
and they need to hear the hopeof the sobriety journey.
And also, I would just ask thatyou would leave a five-star
(25:46):
review and then, if you want toconnect, follow me at
tonyashellnutt.
com and that's with two t's, andstay tuned for next week when
we have another guest who willbe sharing their journey as well
.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And we appreciate you all thank you for joining us
here on courageous overcomerswith tonya shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
(26:19):
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tonya
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
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