June 11, 2025 • 32 mins
What happens when the pain we carry feels too buried, too dark, or too shameful to bring into the light? Catherine's powerful story of abortion, shame, and ultimate healing reminds us that redemption thrives in vulnerability.
Catherine never planned to share her abortion story publicly. For years after her procedure in 1981, she buried the memory, numbing her pain through what she calls "reckless living" until hitting rock bottom at age 28. Even after finding faith, she faced what countless post-abortive women experience: the inability to forgive herself despite believing in divine forgiveness. "It's just so unnatural for a woman to end the life of her child," she reflects, explaining the deep psychological wound that persisted for decades.
The turning point came unexpectedly. After confiding in sisters and close friends, Catherine felt called to share her story publicly during a church event in 2009—despite overwhelming fear of judgment. What followed was transformation, not just for her but for many who heard her story and recognized their own pain. A profound shift occurred when someone told her, "You are a mother and you will see your baby in heaven." This perspective allowed Catherine to honor her unborn child and reshape her identity. Now when asked if she has children, she responds with courageous honesty: "I don't have earthly children, but I have a baby in heaven."
Catherine's message resonates beyond abortion. Whether you're carrying shame from past choices, abuse, addiction, or any painful secret, healing begins when we stop hiding. "You can't heal what you don't face," as host Tonya reminds us. If Catherine's story touched something in you, reach out. She's offered to connect with listeners who need support in their healing journey. Download our free 5-day healing workbook at tonyashellnutt.com and take your first step toward freedom today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya Shellnutt (00:07):
Well, welcome back to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt.
Over the past month, we've beentalking about healing through
the lens of gardening and howGod tends to the soil of our
hearts.
He prunes what no longer servesus and prepares us for new life
.
But what happens when the painwe carry feels too buried, too
(00:28):
dark or too shameful to bringinto the light?
You know we always talk aboutvery difficult subjects on this
podcast, because I believe youcan't heal what you're not
willing to face.
So today, friends, we are goingto lean into another very
difficult topic.
We're going to talk aboutabortion.
And, just like we've learned inthe garden, healing often
(00:51):
starts underground, where no onesees, where roots grow in
secret, where broken soil canbecome sacred ground.
And my guest today is a very,very dear friend, catherine.
She's a courageous woman who'shere to share the story of her
abortion, how it wounded her,how it became a wound she
carried quietly for a long timeand ultimately, how it became a
(01:16):
deeper healing journey.
And I just want to share that.
This isn't about judgment forthe women that may have or men
that have been through this.
This is all about judgment forthe women that may have or men
that have been through this.
This is all about Jesus.
This is about facing what hurtsso God can redeem it, and
because, in God's hands, eventhe most painful parts of our
story can lead to a harvest ofhope.
(01:38):
And so, wherever you are today,whatever chapter you've been
hiding, even if you've never hadan abortion maybe it's
something else, maybe it's aswe've talked about on this
podcast before sexual abuse,drug addiction, whatever it is I
want to invite you to lean in,because healing grows when we
(01:59):
stop hiding and redemption isalways possible.
So, catherine, hello, I'm sothankful that you're with us
today.
I've been known, I've beenblessed to have known you for
quite a long time, as our pathscrossed in Montana and here we
are down south again.
Catherine (02:20):
Yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:21):
I'm just so thankful for you and your
courage to be with us, and so Iwant to just start this, because
this is a very difficultconversation and I want our
listeners to know how courageousyou are for doing this, and
it's something that is veryimportant to me, because I want
(02:42):
to lean into the hard stuff.
I think we can't heal what wedon't face, so I want you to
share a little bit with ouraudience about your upbringing
and what events led up to thetime in your life when you made
the decision to have theabortion.
Catherine (02:59):
Okay, well, thank you , tonya.
I first have to say you've beena dear friend to me and I'm
very grateful for you.
My courage does come from theLord and he has given me this
courage to speak out on thisreally hard topic, but the
freedom that it is in, justcoming out and speaking about it
is mind-blowing.
(03:20):
And just coming out andspeaking about it is mind
blowing.
So starting out, I just so.
What was your question?
Tonya Shellnutt (03:32):
No, it's all good.
It's about tell us a little bitabout your upbringing and then
the events that led up to thistime in your life, when the
decision was made Sure.
Catherine (03:41):
So my upbringing.
I grew up in a, I would say,need to please syndrome.
I don't know where that camefrom, but a lot of it then
(04:17):
stemmed from just not feelinggood enough.
Then that led to just veeringoff into a path of destruction,
if you will.
I made some bad choices andthen I found myself pregnant at
22.
Tonya Shellnutt (04:33):
And so when you found yourself pregnant, tell
me a little bit about what wasgoing on with you emotionally,
relationally, spiritually, likewhere were you at in that
timeframe?
Catherine (04:48):
emotionally, spiritually, like, where were
you at in that time frame?
Well, obviously, um, right atright.
Right in my senior year of highschool, um, I was doing some
things that were not pleasing umto my parents, and I was pretty
sneaky about it, and then I gotbusted on it, and so I was, I
was a mess, I was sucked intothe lies of the world, and and
so I just was making some reallybad decisions, and so so here
(05:13):
you are, 22.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:16):
You're are you married at this time, Catherine?
Catherine (05:20):
No, I was not married Okay.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:22):
All right, so you weren't married, you're 22.
What were some of the pressures?
And you got pregnant at 22,.
Right, correct, yes, okay.
So what were some of thepressures or fears that you were
facing?
You know, you found out youwere pregnant.
Tell me, like what was goingthrough your mind?
What happened at that point?
Catherine (05:47):
was going through your mind.
What happened at that point?
Well, you know, and I want tosay that this was in 1981.
So there were no ultrasounds.
There were no.
I just knew of a woman that hadhad two abortions and I, just
immediately, when I found out Iwas pregnant, I just panicked
and I thought, oh my gosh, I'mnot married.
(06:09):
I'm not even sure you know thatI want to marry this man that I
, you know, got pregnant by.
So I had all of these emotionsand all I could think of was all
of these emotions and all Icould think of was, well, I
(06:30):
could have an abortion, becauseI know this girl said she
actually had two.
And so I just I made up a lotof excuses, I just believed the
lies that, oh, I'm not ready.
Ultimately, I was selfish, I'mnot ready and ultimately I'm
self.
I was selfish, I'm not ready tobe a mother.
I didn't really understand whatthat looked like.
I didn't want to bring shame tomy family by my reckless
(06:54):
lifestyle and the bad choicesthat I were made, that I made.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:58):
So, so walk us through.
You know when the decision wasmade and what happened and what
you felt afterwards.
Catherine (07:10):
So After I contacted the one friend, I just thought,
and she told me she said, oh,you can have it done and no one
will ever know.
And so I thought I'll do this.
You know, I can just go on withmy life, it's just something
that I can do.
And so I really wasn't going totell anybody.
(07:32):
And when I called the pregnancycenter, they advised me to have
someone you know drive me home.
And so I thought, man, OK, well, I could at least ask this one
girl who'd had two abortions toto's been um 44 years.
And I will, I will never forgetUm, and, and I'm I'm very
(08:03):
grateful that I don't have a lotof memories other than um, just
the um, just the being in it.
There was no counsel, there was, uh, no one I remember telling
me do you understand what you'redoing?
There was no ultrasound, therewas none of that, and so my only
(08:26):
memories were just a loud sound, and I just remember lying on
the table thinking, just letthis be over with, and then I
can move on with my life.
And so that's pretty much whathappened.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:41):
So after that, Catherine, you didn't share it
with anybody.
Catherine (08:46):
No.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:47):
And you carried that pain silently how many
years did you carry that painsilently Did you carry that pain
silently.
Catherine (08:56):
So at age 28,.
You know so my abortion was at22.
And then I remember, at 28, Ihad just come to a place in my
life where I just hit rockbottom and I just had made a
mess of my life.
I wasn't, I just had made a lotof my life.
I, I wasn't, um, I just hadmade a lot of bad choices.
(09:18):
And I I'll never forget justcrying out to the Lord I can
remember specifically where Iwas and and just asking the Lord
to just, uh, forgive me, causeI never really I knew in my head
that God forgives all sins, butthat's the lie of abortion you
can't forgive yourself.
(09:39):
So that was probably about.
So from age 22 to 28, I didn'tthink about it anymore, even
though I think I was numbing mypain with reckless living with
reckless living.
And then so after that, so Ifound myself just reaching out
(10:01):
to God.
He met me in my deepest pain atage 28.
And so then I was on this newpath of just starting over, and
it was probably about seven,seven or eight years after that
that I began to just think aboutmy baby and I would hear
(10:25):
something.
Or you know, if you read yourBible, you can't help but just
see God in it.
And then God just began workingin my heart.
And then God just began workingin my heart, and then I began
to slowly confide in, first ofall, one of my sisters, and then
I confided in another sister, abiological sisters in my family
(10:47):
, and then I just began to talkabout it.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:55):
So up until that point, you were about 35.
What were some of the lies thatyou believed about yourself
after the abortion?
What was going through yourmind?
Catherine (11:09):
Well, it's just so unnatural for a woman, when you
really put it in perspective, uh, to to end the life of her
child.
And so I, I just had a um, Iwould just have thoughts about
um not feeling worthy.
Even though you know, I knewGod had forgiven me, I still had
(11:33):
that, that scar, that deepsense of I can't forgive myself.
You know, it's like you know.
And then the more you, you know, you talk about it, the more
you, you know, realize that Godhas forgiven all of our sins.
But I just had a problemforgiving myself.
(11:54):
I struggled with that.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:56):
Yeah, but I just had a problem forgiving
myself.
I struggled with that, yeah,and you know, catherine, so many
women say that that forgivingthemselves is one of the hardest
parts of this process, and soyou know what did it look like
for you, in your relationshipwith the Lord, to begin to
forgive yourself, like, how didthat play out?
Catherine (12:17):
with the Lord to begin to forgive yourself.
Like, how did that play out?
Well, I think it's so importantbecause, you know, we, when we,
if we have a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ,
we come into the light, and thelight, his light shines on
everything, and not that we haveto be public about everything,
but for me, I needed to sharethat and I just felt that the
(12:42):
Lord was moving me in adirection to talk about it and
to be real about it, and themore I felt loved and accepted,
even though sometimes in my headI would still have that I can't
(13:05):
believe you did this.
It's just this battle thatwould go inside your head, you
know.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:11):
Yeah, so do you want to share with our audience
about the time when youpublicly spoke about it the
first time you ever did it?
Do you want to share that with?
Catherine (13:22):
us?
Sure, I would love to, becauseyou were a part of it.
That was in Montana and I justit was in December of 2008.
And you, tonya, and I were inthe same church and I just I
told my husband, jay that I feellike the Lord, I just knew it.
(13:48):
I knew it in my heart Because,after sharing my story with
one-on-one to people, and then Ibegan to share my, my story in
a group setting with some womenat church and you were part of
that, tanya I just felt like theLord was leading me to do this
on a on a bigger platform, and II you have to understand, your
(14:11):
audience has to understand I amnot a public speaker.
I, I this is was way out of mycomfort zone, but it's like I
knew that this was somethingthat the Lord was wanting me to
do.
So I consulted my pastor at thetime and then he pointed me to
his wife and she was head ofwomen's ministry and she said
(14:33):
Catherine, I think we're ontosomething, let's do this.
And then you, tanya, were oneof the first people that I
thought of that to comealongside of me.
I had no idea what that wouldlook like, but, backing up, god
had divinely placed people in mypath, and one of those people.
(14:54):
One of those persons was aformer abortion doctor.
He was an OBGYN doctor and he Ihad met him in some church
circles and he had shared histestimony and I'm like, okay,
god, this is, this is one personthat I know I could call on.
(15:15):
And then there were othercouples that I had befriended
and they had the same story thatI did, and so we just came
together and I even knew whatthe video would look like in the
church, and the church it wasjust me speaking in January of
(15:38):
2009 for Sanctity of Human Lifewhich, by the way, it's every
third Sunday in January topromote life, and so it was just
an opportunity for people.
I was very careful because Ithought people are not going to
show up, you know, because thisis such a big secret, but I
(15:58):
thought, if we use the word, ifany person has been affected by
abortion, that could be asibling, a friend.
It didn't have to mean youpersonally.
So I was the one saying that onthe video.
It was just a one minute videoin our church, and then I had a
(16:19):
man and a woman with their backsto the camera and then the
words would come up.
As I was saying if you havebeen affected in some way by
abortion, please come and andpray and and and find healing in
um and coming together.
And so the Lord blessed that.
It was a very, very moving timeand I was very humbled to be a
(16:44):
part of that and I thank you,tanya, for being a part of that
with me.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:49):
Yeah, and I would say to you, catherine,
that in that moment ofvulnerability, right, it's the
first time where you're reallysharing your story.
You know the enemy wants tojust attack you and less than
but share with our audience someof the positives that came out
(17:12):
of that, because there werepeople that came forward and
shared about their own abortionsand how.
That is often the case wheneverwe're sharing our story.
So share a little bit aboutthat.
Catherine (17:26):
Yes, so many of the people that were in that event
that night came forth and sharedtheir own testimonies of the of
the guilt and the shame and theself condemnation that they
felt.
You know, and and actually theyhad some of those people had
(17:48):
already been through like a postabortion recovery, and so I I
knew that, that that wassomething that they had been a
part of, and so they were likeme, just wanting to just get it.
That is just such a dark, darksecret.
Tonya Shellnutt (18:24):
Right, yeah, and I think you know.
Obviously there's many reasonswhy I wanted you to come on to
this podcast.
I've seen the Lord work in yourlife, but I want Courageous
Overcomers to be a communitywhere people are empowered and
inspired by others to not be inbondage to their secrets not be
(18:46):
in bondage to their wounds, andso share with our audience what
God's in these, you know,darkest, deepest crevices of
pain.
Share a little bit with themabout that.
Catherine (19:05):
Well, there's just, you know, so many areas in the
Bible that talk about.
You know, the Son sets us free,god gives us grace, and one of
my life verses is Psalm 103 thatsays Bless the Lord, o my soul.
He forgives all of our sins.
That means all A-L-L.
(19:26):
And so the fact that I had toyou know I can't tell you the
number of women that still tothis day, because, like you, I
mean I was in Montana and nowI'm in South Carolina and the
fact that there's still womenout there that say I can't
(19:49):
forgive myself.
But I understood that, I livedthat.
And so, the more that you talkabout it and I realize a lot of
people may not necessarily wantto go the faith-based route, but
there are so many resources outthere If you are on a journey
(20:13):
of faith or if you're not, it'sjust the scar of abortion is so
deep and wounding.
And so for me, the more that Ishared and most of the time it
was, you know, one-on-one thatparticular event was the first
time I'd ever spoken about thatpublicly and the encouragement
(20:37):
that I got from that church bodyof you know, just being
courageous and sharing my story.
And I don't take any of thatbecause it was the power of God
in me pushing me through to dothat.
It's almost like I had an outof body experience, because it
truly wasn't me, it was.
(20:58):
It was God in me.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:59):
Yeah, because you were so afraid right.
Catherine (21:01):
Yes, oh yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:03):
Yeah.
Catherine (21:03):
Yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:04):
Oh, yes, yeah, you worry about the judgment.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What would you?
Tonya Shellnutt (21:08):
say about me.
All these lies that are goingthrough your mind, and the shame
and the guilt, tanya, speakingof the lies, because that that
does.
Catherine (21:23):
Uh, that was a big, um, you know, issue, I guess,
for me, because, um, my, my ownsister, you know, one of my
sisters, couldn't have childrenand so, um, you know, I was like
afraid to tell her.
And then I had friends who Iknew were trying to have to get
(21:43):
pregnant and couldn't, or theychose life instead of having an
abortion, and so I still wouldhave that you know lie going off
in my head occasionally.
But the beautiful thing is, themore I walk with the Lord, the
more I can reject those lies andput it through the, you know,
take every thought captive andmake it obedient and to to God.
(22:06):
But but, but I'm I'm justgrateful that, that I can just
continue to, just to be a voicefor the voiceless.
Tonya Shellnutt (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
One thing that we don't havetime to get into, but I want to
bring you back on another timeto talk about is you know you,
you do not have any children.
And you know stigma means to youand to your husband and I don't
(22:39):
want to go into that right nowbecause that's a whole story.
That is another episode that isvery important.
But one thing that, um, you dowhen people ask you you have
children, and I love your answerand I I just want you to share
it with your audience, with ouraudience well, um, I'll have to
(23:00):
give credit to I was.
Catherine (23:02):
After that 2009 event .
Then I was asked by anotherpastor's wife in a smaller
church if I would just be ableto share something with some
single moms, and she did noteven know my story.
And so I shared my story, butin that story I said I'm not a
(23:25):
mother, but this is part of mytestimony, and I shared about my
abortion.
And so a godly, older womancame up to me after that and
said that was a beautifultestament to God, catherine, she
says.
But I have to disagree with youon one thing you are a mother
and you will see your baby inheaven one day.
(23:47):
And so I thought and my bestfriend at the time was with me
and she heard every word and itwas like God just spoke right
through this woman.
And so after that I began torealize I am a mother and I, my
baby, is in heaven and I don'thave to carry that shame and my
(24:08):
and I've named my my baby.
And so it was after that theLord used that incident to to
just now, when people ask me youknow cause?
I'm, I'm, I'm at the age.
I'm 65.
I'm at the age where I wouldhave grandchildren in my life.
And so I I sit and people willsay, oh, do you have children?
(24:30):
You have grandchildren.
And I will know my response willbe no, I don't have any earthly
children, but I have a baby inheaven and they will.
They will automatically,majority of the time, I should
say, will assume that Imiscarried a baby and I will
clarify that and say, no, Ibelieve the lie of abortion.
(24:55):
And so when I say that, peoplewill go people sometimes don't
even know what to do with that,or they'll go oh, wow, or thank
you for your honesty, orwhatever.
So I just now want to givehonor to my baby and over 63
(25:18):
million other babies who havebeen aborted, because if it
starts with just one person andif I can acknowledge that I have
a child in heaven that'swaiting to see me, then that is
my vision is to see otherpost-abortive men and women put
(25:40):
a name to that baby andrecognize that it was a life.
Tonya Shellnutt (25:45):
What would you say to the woman listening who's
still carrying the weight of apast abortion and feels like
healing isn't possible?
What?
What would you say to her?
Or or to a man that has alsogone through this?
Catherine (25:59):
Yeah, well, I, I know that because I, I felt it, I
lived it myself Like I justcan't, I can't get past not
forgiving myself.
And recently I said, said to afriend who just you know who,
who told me that that shecouldn't forgive herself, that
(26:20):
she knew God forgives her butshe couldn't forgive herself,
she couldn't forgive herself,that she knew God forgives her
but she couldn't forgive herself.
And it wasn't until someonesaid to me what I said to her
well then, jesus died fornothing, because you know that
sin, because when we you knowit's easy to forgive other
(26:41):
people, but when we can'tforgive ourselves, then that's
that's, you know Jesus, we'renot, we're taking Jesus off the
cross, I guess.
And so I just that really, thatreally was a big thing for me
to just realize that I wasmaking it about me and and so
(27:07):
that's that's kind of myresponse, in that you know.
Tonya Shellnutt (27:11):
So I think, catherine, that you know we can
agree.
One of the first steps also isfinding someone that you trust
wholeheartedly and share withthem, and share with them If you
have never shared this withanybody you want to share, with
(27:32):
someone you trust, and it needsto be a trusted person.
Yes, you know whether it's afamily member, a pastor, a
friend.
You know we talk all the timeabout you can't heal what you
don't face and the more yousuppress.
you know the abortion or theabuse or whatever it is, the
(27:56):
more it festers.
And so to the woman that'slistening right now.
You know, maybe you've beenhiding, maybe you've been
pretending you're fine whenyou're not, and the shame has
kept you silent, pretendingyou're fine when you're not, and
the shame has kept you silent.
And so you know, I'm going tobring Catherine back at another
(28:20):
time to talk about her and Jayand the abortion and what it did
to not having children and whatall that meant.
But today I want you to bereminded that you know.
No decision, no mistake, nochapter of our story is so far
gone for God to redeem.
Catherine (28:38):
That's right Amen.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:40):
Healing doesn't mean forgetting.
It means being free.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Catherine.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:44):
I just want to thank you.
I got choked up when you weretalking about your baby and
naming him and her.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:54):
I just want to thank you for your courage and
for being vulnerable enough topull back the curtain and let
people come in and see the pain,but also see the hope, because
you are walking with the Lord ina mighty way, impacting women.
(29:14):
You do so much, and so, for thelisteners that are listening,
you know something stirred inyou today.
I just want you to know thatyou're not alone.
We've talked about the safepeople places that you can go to
, and that this is a communityof courageous overcomers.
(29:36):
And if you go to my website,wwwtonyashellnutt.
com, we have a five-day healingand cleanse workbook and you
download that and give us youremail, we'll email it to you or
share this podcast with anyonethat you think can benefit from
it.
The other thing that'simportant is to leave a
(29:59):
five-star review, because ithelps us get hope out faster.
And I also, you know, askedCatherine at the beginning of
this if it would be appropriatefor her if someone reached out
to me and just said you know, Ireally need some help.
I don't know where to go.
And I asked Catherine if shewould be available to visit with
(30:22):
any of the listeners that mightbe going through this, and she
said, of course.
So, listeners, if somethingCatherine said or something that
was said today on the podcastand you want to talk with
Catherine and find out somethings that she's done to heal
from this, please email me.
You can go to my website andcontact us on there and I'll get
(30:45):
you in touch with Catherine uson there and I'll get you in
touch with Catherine.
She's a wealth of knowledge andan incredible encourager, has
encouraged me and my familyalong the way.
I want you to do that because Idon't want any of our listeners
to be in bondage anymore.
I mean, god has called us to belight and to let the light shine
(31:06):
in these dark places, and thelies of the enemy just keep us
in bondage.
So so, catherine, thank you forbeing with us today.
We're going to have you back,and I just appreciate your
vulnerability.
Catherine (31:20):
Thank you, tonya, it was a blessing.
Tonya Shellnutt (31:22):
Yeah, listen, next week.
Courageous Overcomers, we havemore on this, so have a great
week.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Overcomers.
We have more on this, so have agreat week.
Thank you for joining us hereon Courageous Overcomers with
Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
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(31:52):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Thank you.
Well, welcome back to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt.
Over the past month, we've beentalking about healing through
the lens of gardening and howGod tends to the soil of our
hearts.
He prunes what no longer servesus and prepares us for new life
.
But what happens when the painwe carry feels too buried, too
(00:28):
dark or too shameful to bringinto the light?
You know we always talk aboutvery difficult subjects on this
podcast, because I believe youcan't heal what you're not
willing to face.
So today, friends, we are goingto lean into another very
difficult topic.
We're going to talk aboutabortion.
And, just like we've learned inthe garden, healing often
(00:51):
starts underground, where no onesees, where roots grow in
secret, where broken soil canbecome sacred ground.
And my guest today is a very,very dear friend, catherine.
She's a courageous woman who'shere to share the story of her
abortion, how it wounded her,how it became a wound she
carried quietly for a long timeand ultimately, how it became a
(01:16):
deeper healing journey.
And I just want to share that.
This isn't about judgment forthe women that may have or men
that have been through this.
This is all about judgment forthe women that may have or men
that have been through this.
This is all about Jesus.
This is about facing what hurtsso God can redeem it, and
because, in God's hands, eventhe most painful parts of our
story can lead to a harvest ofhope.
(01:38):
And so, wherever you are today,whatever chapter you've been
hiding, even if you've never hadan abortion maybe it's
something else, maybe it's aswe've talked about on this
podcast before sexual abuse,drug addiction, whatever it is I
want to invite you to lean in,because healing grows when we
(01:59):
stop hiding and redemption isalways possible.
So, catherine, hello, I'm sothankful that you're with us
today.
I've been known, I've beenblessed to have known you for
quite a long time, as our pathscrossed in Montana and here we
are down south again.
Catherine (02:20):
Yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:21):
I'm just so thankful for you and your
courage to be with us, and so Iwant to just start this, because
this is a very difficultconversation and I want our
listeners to know how courageousyou are for doing this, and
it's something that is veryimportant to me, because I want
(02:42):
to lean into the hard stuff.
I think we can't heal what wedon't face, so I want you to
share a little bit with ouraudience about your upbringing
and what events led up to thetime in your life when you made
the decision to have theabortion.
Catherine (02:59):
Okay, well, thank you , tonya.
I first have to say you've beena dear friend to me and I'm
very grateful for you.
My courage does come from theLord and he has given me this
courage to speak out on thisreally hard topic, but the
freedom that it is in, justcoming out and speaking about it
is mind-blowing.
(03:20):
And just coming out andspeaking about it is mind
blowing.
So starting out, I just so.
What was your question?
Tonya Shellnutt (03:32):
No, it's all good.
It's about tell us a little bitabout your upbringing and then
the events that led up to thistime in your life, when the
decision was made Sure.
Catherine (03:41):
So my upbringing.
I grew up in a, I would say,need to please syndrome.
I don't know where that camefrom, but a lot of it then
(04:17):
stemmed from just not feelinggood enough.
Then that led to just veeringoff into a path of destruction,
if you will.
I made some bad choices andthen I found myself pregnant at
22.
Tonya Shellnutt (04:33):
And so when you found yourself pregnant, tell
me a little bit about what wasgoing on with you emotionally,
relationally, spiritually, likewhere were you at in that
timeframe?
Catherine (04:48):
emotionally, spiritually, like, where were
you at in that time frame?
Well, obviously, um, right atright.
Right in my senior year of highschool, um, I was doing some
things that were not pleasing umto my parents, and I was pretty
sneaky about it, and then I gotbusted on it, and so I was, I
was a mess, I was sucked intothe lies of the world, and and
so I just was making some reallybad decisions, and so so here
(05:13):
you are, 22.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:16):
You're are you married at this time, Catherine?
Catherine (05:20):
No, I was not married Okay.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:22):
All right, so you weren't married, you're 22.
What were some of the pressures?
And you got pregnant at 22,.
Right, correct, yes, okay.
So what were some of thepressures or fears that you were
facing?
You know, you found out youwere pregnant.
Tell me, like what was goingthrough your mind?
What happened at that point?
Catherine (05:47):
was going through your mind.
What happened at that point?
Well, you know, and I want tosay that this was in 1981.
So there were no ultrasounds.
There were no.
I just knew of a woman that hadhad two abortions and I, just
immediately, when I found out Iwas pregnant, I just panicked
and I thought, oh my gosh, I'mnot married.
(06:09):
I'm not even sure you know thatI want to marry this man that I
, you know, got pregnant by.
So I had all of these emotionsand all I could think of was all
of these emotions and all Icould think of was, well, I
(06:30):
could have an abortion, becauseI know this girl said she
actually had two.
And so I just I made up a lotof excuses, I just believed the
lies that, oh, I'm not ready.
Ultimately, I was selfish, I'mnot ready and ultimately I'm
self.
I was selfish, I'm not ready tobe a mother.
I didn't really understand whatthat looked like.
I didn't want to bring shame tomy family by my reckless
(06:54):
lifestyle and the bad choicesthat I were made, that I made.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:58):
So, so walk us through.
You know when the decision wasmade and what happened and what
you felt afterwards.
Catherine (07:10):
So After I contacted the one friend, I just thought,
and she told me she said, oh,you can have it done and no one
will ever know.
And so I thought I'll do this.
You know, I can just go on withmy life, it's just something
that I can do.
And so I really wasn't going totell anybody.
(07:32):
And when I called the pregnancycenter, they advised me to have
someone you know drive me home.
And so I thought, man, OK, well, I could at least ask this one
girl who'd had two abortions toto's been um 44 years.
And I will, I will never forgetUm, and, and I'm I'm very
(08:03):
grateful that I don't have a lotof memories other than um, just
the um, just the being in it.
There was no counsel, there was, uh, no one I remember telling
me do you understand what you'redoing?
There was no ultrasound, therewas none of that, and so my only
(08:26):
memories were just a loud sound, and I just remember lying on
the table thinking, just letthis be over with, and then I
can move on with my life.
And so that's pretty much whathappened.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:41):
So after that, Catherine, you didn't share it
with anybody.
Catherine (08:46):
No.
Tonya Shellnutt (08:47):
And you carried that pain silently how many
years did you carry that painsilently Did you carry that pain
silently.
Catherine (08:56):
So at age 28,.
You know so my abortion was at22.
And then I remember, at 28, Ihad just come to a place in my
life where I just hit rockbottom and I just had made a
mess of my life.
I wasn't, I just had made a lotof my life.
I, I wasn't, um, I just hadmade a lot of bad choices.
(09:18):
And I I'll never forget justcrying out to the Lord I can
remember specifically where Iwas and and just asking the Lord
to just, uh, forgive me, causeI never really I knew in my head
that God forgives all sins, butthat's the lie of abortion you
can't forgive yourself.
(09:39):
So that was probably about.
So from age 22 to 28, I didn'tthink about it anymore, even
though I think I was numbing mypain with reckless living with
reckless living.
And then so after that, so Ifound myself just reaching out
(10:01):
to God.
He met me in my deepest pain atage 28.
And so then I was on this newpath of just starting over, and
it was probably about seven,seven or eight years after that
that I began to just think aboutmy baby and I would hear
(10:25):
something.
Or you know, if you read yourBible, you can't help but just
see God in it.
And then God just began workingin my heart.
And then God just began workingin my heart, and then I began
to slowly confide in, first ofall, one of my sisters, and then
I confided in another sister, abiological sisters in my family
(10:47):
, and then I just began to talkabout it.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:55):
So up until that point, you were about 35.
What were some of the lies thatyou believed about yourself
after the abortion?
What was going through yourmind?
Catherine (11:09):
Well, it's just so unnatural for a woman, when you
really put it in perspective, uh, to to end the life of her
child.
And so I, I just had a um, Iwould just have thoughts about
um not feeling worthy.
Even though you know, I knewGod had forgiven me, I still had
(11:33):
that, that scar, that deepsense of I can't forgive myself.
You know, it's like you know.
And then the more you, you know, you talk about it, the more
you, you know, realize that Godhas forgiven all of our sins.
But I just had a problemforgiving myself.
(11:54):
I struggled with that.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:56):
Yeah, but I just had a problem forgiving
myself.
I struggled with that, yeah,and you know, catherine, so many
women say that that forgivingthemselves is one of the hardest
parts of this process, and soyou know what did it look like
for you, in your relationshipwith the Lord, to begin to
forgive yourself, like, how didthat play out?
Catherine (12:17):
with the Lord to begin to forgive yourself.
Like, how did that play out?
Well, I think it's so importantbecause, you know, we, when we,
if we have a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ,
we come into the light, and thelight, his light shines on
everything, and not that we haveto be public about everything,
but for me, I needed to sharethat and I just felt that the
(12:42):
Lord was moving me in adirection to talk about it and
to be real about it, and themore I felt loved and accepted,
even though sometimes in my headI would still have that I can't
(13:05):
believe you did this.
It's just this battle thatwould go inside your head, you
know.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:11):
Yeah, so do you want to share with our audience
about the time when youpublicly spoke about it the
first time you ever did it?
Do you want to share that with?
Catherine (13:22):
us?
Sure, I would love to, becauseyou were a part of it.
That was in Montana and I justit was in December of 2008.
And you, tonya, and I were inthe same church and I just I
told my husband, jay that I feellike the Lord, I just knew it.
(13:48):
I knew it in my heart Because,after sharing my story with
one-on-one to people, and then Ibegan to share my, my story in
a group setting with some womenat church and you were part of
that, tanya I just felt like theLord was leading me to do this
on a on a bigger platform, and II you have to understand, your
(14:11):
audience has to understand I amnot a public speaker.
I, I this is was way out of mycomfort zone, but it's like I
knew that this was somethingthat the Lord was wanting me to
do.
So I consulted my pastor at thetime and then he pointed me to
his wife and she was head ofwomen's ministry and she said
(14:33):
Catherine, I think we're ontosomething, let's do this.
And then you, tanya, were oneof the first people that I
thought of that to comealongside of me.
I had no idea what that wouldlook like, but, backing up, god
had divinely placed people in mypath, and one of those people.
(14:54):
One of those persons was aformer abortion doctor.
He was an OBGYN doctor and he Ihad met him in some church
circles and he had shared histestimony and I'm like, okay,
god, this is, this is one personthat I know I could call on.
(15:15):
And then there were othercouples that I had befriended
and they had the same story thatI did, and so we just came
together and I even knew whatthe video would look like in the
church, and the church it wasjust me speaking in January of
(15:38):
2009 for Sanctity of Human Lifewhich, by the way, it's every
third Sunday in January topromote life, and so it was just
an opportunity for people.
I was very careful because Ithought people are not going to
show up, you know, because thisis such a big secret, but I
(15:58):
thought, if we use the word, ifany person has been affected by
abortion, that could be asibling, a friend.
It didn't have to mean youpersonally.
So I was the one saying that onthe video.
It was just a one minute videoin our church, and then I had a
(16:19):
man and a woman with their backsto the camera and then the
words would come up.
As I was saying if you havebeen affected in some way by
abortion, please come and andpray and and and find healing in
um and coming together.
And so the Lord blessed that.
It was a very, very moving timeand I was very humbled to be a
(16:44):
part of that and I thank you,tanya, for being a part of that
with me.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:49):
Yeah, and I would say to you, catherine,
that in that moment ofvulnerability, right, it's the
first time where you're reallysharing your story.
You know the enemy wants tojust attack you and less than
but share with our audience someof the positives that came out
(17:12):
of that, because there werepeople that came forward and
shared about their own abortionsand how.
That is often the case wheneverwe're sharing our story.
So share a little bit aboutthat.
Catherine (17:26):
Yes, so many of the people that were in that event
that night came forth and sharedtheir own testimonies of the of
the guilt and the shame and theself condemnation that they
felt.
You know, and and actually theyhad some of those people had
(17:48):
already been through like a postabortion recovery, and so I I
knew that, that that wassomething that they had been a
part of, and so they were likeme, just wanting to just get it.
That is just such a dark, darksecret.
Tonya Shellnutt (18:24):
Right, yeah, and I think you know.
Obviously there's many reasonswhy I wanted you to come on to
this podcast.
I've seen the Lord work in yourlife, but I want Courageous
Overcomers to be a communitywhere people are empowered and
inspired by others to not be inbondage to their secrets not be
(18:46):
in bondage to their wounds, andso share with our audience what
God's in these, you know,darkest, deepest crevices of
pain.
Share a little bit with themabout that.
Catherine (19:05):
Well, there's just, you know, so many areas in the
Bible that talk about.
You know, the Son sets us free,god gives us grace, and one of
my life verses is Psalm 103 thatsays Bless the Lord, o my soul.
He forgives all of our sins.
That means all A-L-L.
(19:26):
And so the fact that I had toyou know I can't tell you the
number of women that still tothis day, because, like you, I
mean I was in Montana and nowI'm in South Carolina and the
fact that there's still womenout there that say I can't
(19:49):
forgive myself.
But I understood that, I livedthat.
And so, the more that you talkabout it and I realize a lot of
people may not necessarily wantto go the faith-based route, but
there are so many resources outthere If you are on a journey
(20:13):
of faith or if you're not, it'sjust the scar of abortion is so
deep and wounding.
And so for me, the more that Ishared and most of the time it
was, you know, one-on-one thatparticular event was the first
time I'd ever spoken about thatpublicly and the encouragement
(20:37):
that I got from that church bodyof you know, just being
courageous and sharing my story.
And I don't take any of thatbecause it was the power of God
in me pushing me through to dothat.
It's almost like I had an outof body experience, because it
truly wasn't me, it was.
(20:58):
It was God in me.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:59):
Yeah, because you were so afraid right.
Catherine (21:01):
Yes, oh yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:03):
Yeah.
Catherine (21:03):
Yes.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:04):
Oh, yes, yeah, you worry about the judgment.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What would you?
Tonya Shellnutt (21:08):
say about me.
All these lies that are goingthrough your mind, and the shame
and the guilt, tanya, speakingof the lies, because that that
does.
Catherine (21:23):
Uh, that was a big, um, you know, issue, I guess,
for me, because, um, my, my ownsister, you know, one of my
sisters, couldn't have childrenand so, um, you know, I was like
afraid to tell her.
And then I had friends who Iknew were trying to have to get
(21:43):
pregnant and couldn't, or theychose life instead of having an
abortion, and so I still wouldhave that you know lie going off
in my head occasionally.
But the beautiful thing is, themore I walk with the Lord, the
more I can reject those lies andput it through the, you know,
take every thought captive andmake it obedient and to to God.
(22:06):
But but, but I'm I'm justgrateful that, that I can just
continue to, just to be a voicefor the voiceless.
Tonya Shellnutt (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
One thing that we don't havetime to get into, but I want to
bring you back on another timeto talk about is you know you,
you do not have any children.
And you know stigma means to youand to your husband and I don't
(22:39):
want to go into that right nowbecause that's a whole story.
That is another episode that isvery important.
But one thing that, um, you dowhen people ask you you have
children, and I love your answerand I I just want you to share
it with your audience, with ouraudience well, um, I'll have to
(23:00):
give credit to I was.
Catherine (23:02):
After that 2009 event .
Then I was asked by anotherpastor's wife in a smaller
church if I would just be ableto share something with some
single moms, and she did noteven know my story.
And so I shared my story, butin that story I said I'm not a
(23:25):
mother, but this is part of mytestimony, and I shared about my
abortion.
And so a godly, older womancame up to me after that and
said that was a beautifultestament to God, catherine, she
says.
But I have to disagree with youon one thing you are a mother
and you will see your baby inheaven one day.
(23:47):
And so I thought and my bestfriend at the time was with me
and she heard every word and itwas like God just spoke right
through this woman.
And so after that I began torealize I am a mother and I, my
baby, is in heaven and I don'thave to carry that shame and my
(24:08):
and I've named my my baby.
And so it was after that theLord used that incident to to
just now, when people ask me youknow cause?
I'm, I'm, I'm at the age.
I'm 65.
I'm at the age where I wouldhave grandchildren in my life.
And so I I sit and people willsay, oh, do you have children?
(24:30):
You have grandchildren.
And I will know my response willbe no, I don't have any earthly
children, but I have a baby inheaven and they will.
They will automatically,majority of the time, I should
say, will assume that Imiscarried a baby and I will
clarify that and say, no, Ibelieve the lie of abortion.
(24:55):
And so when I say that, peoplewill go people sometimes don't
even know what to do with that,or they'll go oh, wow, or thank
you for your honesty, orwhatever.
So I just now want to givehonor to my baby and over 63
(25:18):
million other babies who havebeen aborted, because if it
starts with just one person andif I can acknowledge that I have
a child in heaven that'swaiting to see me, then that is
my vision is to see otherpost-abortive men and women put
(25:40):
a name to that baby andrecognize that it was a life.
Tonya Shellnutt (25:45):
What would you say to the woman listening who's
still carrying the weight of apast abortion and feels like
healing isn't possible?
What?
What would you say to her?
Or or to a man that has alsogone through this?
Catherine (25:59):
Yeah, well, I, I know that because I, I felt it, I
lived it myself Like I justcan't, I can't get past not
forgiving myself.
And recently I said, said to afriend who just you know who,
who told me that that shecouldn't forgive herself, that
(26:20):
she knew God forgives her butshe couldn't forgive herself,
she couldn't forgive herself,that she knew God forgives her
but she couldn't forgive herself.
And it wasn't until someonesaid to me what I said to her
well then, jesus died fornothing, because you know that
sin, because when we you knowit's easy to forgive other
(26:41):
people, but when we can'tforgive ourselves, then that's
that's, you know Jesus, we'renot, we're taking Jesus off the
cross, I guess.
And so I just that really, thatreally was a big thing for me
to just realize that I wasmaking it about me and and so
(27:07):
that's that's kind of myresponse, in that you know.
Tonya Shellnutt (27:11):
So I think, catherine, that you know we can
agree.
One of the first steps also isfinding someone that you trust
wholeheartedly and share withthem, and share with them If you
have never shared this withanybody you want to share, with
(27:32):
someone you trust, and it needsto be a trusted person.
Yes, you know whether it's afamily member, a pastor, a
friend.
You know we talk all the timeabout you can't heal what you
don't face and the more yousuppress.
you know the abortion or theabuse or whatever it is, the
(27:56):
more it festers.
And so to the woman that'slistening right now.
You know, maybe you've beenhiding, maybe you've been
pretending you're fine whenyou're not, and the shame has
kept you silent, pretendingyou're fine when you're not, and
the shame has kept you silent.
And so you know, I'm going tobring Catherine back at another
(28:20):
time to talk about her and Jayand the abortion and what it did
to not having children and whatall that meant.
But today I want you to bereminded that you know.
No decision, no mistake, nochapter of our story is so far
gone for God to redeem.
Catherine (28:38):
That's right Amen.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:40):
Healing doesn't mean forgetting.
It means being free.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Catherine.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:44):
I just want to thank you.
I got choked up when you weretalking about your baby and
naming him and her.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:54):
I just want to thank you for your courage and
for being vulnerable enough topull back the curtain and let
people come in and see the pain,but also see the hope, because
you are walking with the Lord ina mighty way, impacting women.
(29:14):
You do so much, and so, for thelisteners that are listening,
you know something stirred inyou today.
I just want you to know thatyou're not alone.
We've talked about the safepeople places that you can go to
, and that this is a communityof courageous overcomers.
(29:36):
And if you go to my website,wwwtonyashellnutt.
com, we have a five-day healingand cleanse workbook and you
download that and give us youremail, we'll email it to you or
share this podcast with anyonethat you think can benefit from
it.
The other thing that'simportant is to leave a
(29:59):
five-star review, because ithelps us get hope out faster.
And I also, you know, askedCatherine at the beginning of
this if it would be appropriatefor her if someone reached out
to me and just said you know, Ireally need some help.
I don't know where to go.
And I asked Catherine if shewould be available to visit with
(30:22):
any of the listeners that mightbe going through this, and she
said, of course.
So, listeners, if somethingCatherine said or something that
was said today on the podcastand you want to talk with
Catherine and find out somethings that she's done to heal
from this, please email me.
You can go to my website andcontact us on there and I'll get
(30:45):
you in touch with Catherine uson there and I'll get you in
touch with Catherine.
She's a wealth of knowledge andan incredible encourager, has
encouraged me and my familyalong the way.
I want you to do that because Idon't want any of our listeners
to be in bondage anymore.
I mean, god has called us to belight and to let the light shine
(31:06):
in these dark places, and thelies of the enemy just keep us
in bondage.
So so, catherine, thank you forbeing with us today.
We're going to have you back,and I just appreciate your
vulnerability.
Catherine (31:20):
Thank you, tonya, it was a blessing.
Tonya Shellnutt (31:22):
Yeah, listen, next week.
Courageous Overcomers, we havemore on this, so have a great
week.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Overcomers.
We have more on this, so have agreat week.
Thank you for joining us hereon Courageous Overcomers with
Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tanya
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
(31:52):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Thank you.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.