January 22, 2025 • 30 mins
What if the pain you're experiencing could lead you to unimaginable strength and resilience? This episode of Courageous Overcomers brings you the raw, inspiring story of Dr. Betsy Guerra, a renowned psychologist and faith-based coach who faced the heartbreaking loss of her daughter, Fofi. With us, she shares her deeply personal journey through grief and healing, challenging the notion that professional training can prepare us for life's most profound tragedies. Betsy reminds us to honor our emotions, emphasizing that no pain should be minimized or compared, as each individual's experience is unique and significant.
The narrative unfolds around a sunlit day filled with laughter and joy—a backyard barbecue, poolside fun, and family togetherness—that took a sudden, tragic turn. Betsy takes us through her vivid memories of that day, when a simple question about Fofi's whereabouts spiraled into a desperate search and the unimaginable. Her story captures the fragility of life's cherished moments, illustrating how quickly they can be overshadowed by fear and uncertainty. Through her recollections, we are invited to reflect on the value of each moment and the unpredictability of life.
Despite the heart-wrenching ordeal, Betsy's unwavering faith became her anchor as she navigated the tumultuous waters of loss. She recounts the intense moments of prayer and profound spiritual insights that guided her through the darkest hours. In sharing her journey, Betsy offers a powerful testament to the transformative power of faith and hope, encouraging us to embrace these forces as we face our own adversities. Join us as we explore the intersection of pain and healing, and find inspiration in Betsy's resilience and courage within the Courageous Overcomers community.
https://betterwithbetsy.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya Shellnutt (00:12):
Welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
Stories of Hope and Healing.
I'm your host, tanya Shellnutt.
Here we talk about the hardstuff trauma, fear and pain but
let's be honest, so many of ushide from our pain because it's
just so hard to face.
But here's the truth we can'theal what we're not willing to
(00:33):
face, and so I am just soexcited.
Today, everyone, we've got anincredible guest on with us,
Betsy Guerra.
I met her recently in Nashvilleat an event and I loved her
immediately.
There's just so many thingsabout her, but she just felt so
(00:54):
welcoming and I felt veryuncomfortable at this event and
she just welcomed me in.
She gave me a book that she hadwritten and we're going to talk
more about this later, but I'mhere to tell you I read that
book in two settings because itwas just so dynamic, and so I
just want our audience, betsy, Iwant you to tell them a little
bit about yourself, and thenwe're going to just get into how
(01:19):
God has brought you through somuch adversity and you've just
done it in a way that's justcourageous and it's increased
your resiliency.
So just share with our audiencea little bit about yourself,
your family, your husband andyour wonderful kids, and then
we'll dive in.
Betsy Guerra (01:40):
Hey, let's go.
I am really, really excited tobe here, tonya.
I was part of this podcastexperience, part of what we were
doing in that event.
It was bringing this to life,so it's really exciting to me
that I get to be a part of it.
So, thank you, thank you forhaving me.
I am Dr Betsy Guerra, but I lovefor people to call me Betsy.
(02:02):
Get up, but I love for peopleto call me Betsy.
I have a doctorate inpsychology.
That's been my background for20 years and I'm a speaker.
I have a coaching academy, soI'm also a teacher where I have
a faith-based coaching academywhere I train and certify
students on a psycho-spiritualmodel that allows us to serve in
(02:25):
a higher capacity, becausewe're combining psychology with
coaching, with spirituality, andthere's just no limits.
And that's like, in addition toit being my career, my
profession, my business, it'salso my ministry.
It's the way that I use myGod-given gifts to unlock
greatness, to ignite faith andto elevate humanity, which is
(02:46):
what God brought me to thisearth to do, as I think is your
case, because you have a verysimilar ministry, even by doing
this podcast and offering such agift to your audience, and I am
a married woman of 20 years, Iam obsessed with my husband.
I always say that God is mynumber one and he's a close
second.
And we have four childrentogether.
(03:08):
My oldest is 15.
My youngest is 10.
So we had four children in fiveyears and then we got a big TV
because my husband is so sexythat he was really irresistible.
So now we get distracted withTV.
Just kidding, tv, just kidding.
So the you know my fourchildren.
(03:30):
One of them lives in heaven andit it was a result of, of an
accident, right Like it was.
It was completely unexpectedand I have experienced and
endured excruciating pain in mylife.
I'm really devoted to myhusband and my children, my
(03:54):
family.
They're my priority and I neverthought I could be happy again.
I never thought you could behappy again.
I never thought you could riseabove that, even though I
already had my 13 years ofexperience as a therapist.
I had been doing this work.
(04:16):
I understand resilience andcourage and psychology and
adversity and all thepossibilities and coping
mechanisms.
But I think there's nodoctorate, there's no education
that can possibly prepare youfor certain things in life, and
for me it was the loss of mydaughter, but for so many.
It's divorce, it's trauma, it'sabuse, it's even financial
(04:40):
problems or a situation in arelationship with a child, with
a partner, with a friend, with acoworker.
And I want to invite all of thepeople listening to us today
that your pain is your pain andit matters.
Many times we compare and wethink like, oh yes, but I didn't
(05:02):
lose a child, so I shouldn'tfeel this way.
And I don't think that's true,because pain is pain, pain is an
emotion.
What causes the pain is whattells us in society oh yes, it's
okay to feel it or not.
Daughter is is the same painthat anybody else feels for
(05:23):
having a failure or getting a Cin class, if it's someone
younger or you know, everybodyhas their own experiences and if
you experience the emotion ofpain, I, I guess the first
invitation to be courageous inthis, in this adversity, and to
be able to build that resilienceis is to embrace the emotion
(05:47):
and allow and welcome it,because feeling is healing right
.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:52):
Yes, yes, and I've.
I've shared that with myaudience.
We talked a lot about um, thatsaying you can't heal what you
don't face, and um, and andtrying very hard not to minimize
what pain they're going throughversus what my pain through,
what my pain was at the moment.
And so let me ask you this thatyou know, during one of your,
(06:15):
at the time when you lost Fofi,you know the hardest moment of
that time period, what gave youthe courage to keep going?
Because that's one of thethings that we've been talking a
lot about in the last fewepisodes is about courage and
resilience, and I think it takescourage to lean into the pain,
(06:35):
like you're talking about, toface the pain.
So share with our audienceafter your loss Fofi, what kept
you you know, after your lossfofi, like what kept you um, and
and please feel free to sharewith our audience a little bit
about um losing fofi and andwhat that was like for your
family and then what was the?
What was, what gave you thecourage to keep going?
Betsy Guerra (06:57):
okay, so I'll share a little bit about the
what happened, which, for a longtime, was actually the worst
thing that I was experiencing.
It was the how it happened thatwas tormenting me, and it was.
It was the darkness in the painwas how it happened.
We had a fairy tale in our home.
I had my prince charming and wehad these beautiful, healthy
(07:22):
children.
And we had these beautiful,healthy children, and at the
time, I had three, and my son myyoungest was a month old Fofi
was the middle one.
Fofi and her older sister, ChiChi, were the best friends in
the world, so we had a lot ofactivities at home.
We have a very family-orientedhome, very homey, a great
(07:44):
backyard, we have pool andtrampoline and we had a zip line
, and so we did all sorts ofthings in the backyard.
And it's Sunday, august 25, 2013.
And we woke up early, we hadour moments with our daughters
we would always welcome themwith a big hug and a big smile
and we went to church and hadour time with the Lord, and then
(08:07):
we had a barbecue planned inour house, because we were about
to start construction in thebackyard and we wanted to enjoy
one last day in the summer.
So we invited people and familyover and we are, we're about
like people are starting to getthere and my, my daughter Fofi,
tells me we're about like peopleare starting to get there.
And my daughter Fofi tells memami, yo quiero estar donde tu
estes.
(08:27):
Which translates to mami, Iwant to be where you're at.
That was her way of telling me,like, come with me to the pool.
And sometimes we get busy, youknow, catering to people and
hosting and cooking and cleaning, and we don't necessarily
answer or I speak for myself.
At that moment I was like okay,yes, so I was.
(08:48):
I was prepping something in thekitchen and I'm like okay, I'm
gonna go with you because youasked and I'm so grateful I did
right.
So we go into the pool and thenmy husband gets in there too
and we're playing ourcheerleading game, which was
that my oldest would come on myshoulders, then my second one,
(09:09):
fofi, would go on her shouldersand then my husband would carry
the three of us and then wewould like cheer and raise our
hands and do all sorts of things.
And I remember at some point Ihad like Chi Chi on one side, my
oldest and Fofi on the otherside, on the other shoulder, and
Fofi was like holding on to myhead because she was like a
(09:30):
little scared and nervous and Ijust I remember having like so
many I call them holy momentswhere I just are feeling safe
with me and having that memoryyeah, and we're playing.
Then people started getting tomy house and you know, we had a
lot of friends and a lot offamily.
Our friends are like family, sowe were surrounded by beauty
(09:53):
and a whole lot of love and thecousins, right like the kids of
my friends, were there.
So they were playing togetheron the edge of the pool and I
was inside the pool while myhusband was barbecuing.
So I was there with the kidsand with other friends.
And at some point a friend afriend asks where's Fofi, and
(10:17):
Tanya, at that moment, like Iwas like where is she?
Like you know, it was such anormal question, like I just
need to like look around andlook for her.
But something about herquestion, like I felt it in my
core, like it was like I knewand my heart started racing and
I'm like where is Fofi?
(10:38):
And I remember feeling all thisanxiety and I'm not one to feel
anxious and I'm lookingeverywhere and I can't find her.
And it feels like forever, butit was just a couple seconds.
And then at some point I can'tsee her until I look right next
to me and there she was, but atthe bottom of the pool and I see
(10:59):
her polka dot bathing suit,minnie Mouse bathing suit.
And I just go into the waterand I grab her and I clutch her
against my chest and I hold onto her and I'm coming out.
And at that moment I'm feelinghow like I'm being pushed down,
the pressure of the water, butI'm wanting to rise, I'm wanting
to get out of there, I'mwanting to bring her to the
(11:20):
surface.
And it was hard but I pushedthrough.
And you know what?
That was my first moment ofcourage.
My first moment of courage wasto feel that everything was
going against me, pushing medown, and yet I was still
pursuing the going to thesurface and bringing her with me
.
So I brought her out, I put iton the edge of the pool.
(11:40):
I had a friend there who was adoctor, a medical doctor in a
nearby hospital, so she knew CPR.
This is what she did.
So she came immediately, shegave her CPR.
You know, she called.
She spoke to the ambulance and9-1-1.
And she had pulse, right Like Iremember her saying, like she
(12:02):
did have pulse.
And I was at that point, like assoon as she was taken care of
physically, I was like I justneed to pray.
So I was like God, please, god,save her, please save her.
God, you know I'm raising herfor you.
God, please save her.
And I was just so sure that hewould because my faith wasn't a
grain of like a grain of mustard, it was way beyond that and I
(12:25):
was.
I just it was scary but I hadso much faith.
I just I just knew he was gonnasave her.
So, you know, call 911.
The ambulance got there in whatfelt like five minutes,
immediately, super fast, likethey came here fast because we
have a hospital nearby.
I get on the on ambulance.
(12:46):
I'm very cold, very cold.
I was still wet and I rememberlistening to the siren of the
ambulance, like it felt like itwas from afar, but it was right
on top of me because I wasinside there and everything is a
blur and yet so clear in mybody and we're on the way and
(13:09):
I'm just praying and praying,because my thought was, if I
stopped praying.
God may interpret it as lack offaith.
This is all I can do right now.
I'm going to do it.
So I prayed and I prayed and wegot to the hospital in two
minutes and immediately we gotinto a room and that room was
filled with with medicalprofessionals who took care of
(13:31):
my daughter as if, as if she wastheir own, like I felt so
supported.
I felt the presence of Godthere taking care of my daughter
.
So I just I just knew that hewas gonna save her.
And at some point I see thedoctors are trying and they're
not giving up and they're doingall these things and my
daughter's body is still and hereyes are closed.
(13:56):
And at some point I see amonitor in the room and the
monitor had a straight line.
And I'm like, oh, what is that?
Is that a flat line?
Is that what that is?
And I wasn't sure, I couldn'tread it.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto change my prayer.
(14:16):
Make her heartbeat, lord.
Make her heartbeat, please Makeher heartbeat.
Make her heartbeat.
And I just had so much faiththat he would.
And I just had so much faiththat he would.
And I remember having threesigns in that process that felt
(14:37):
like forever and yet was so fast.
The first one was God, give mesomething that I can repeat in
prayer, like you know, give melike a mantra that I can repeat
in prayer.
So I don't have to think,because I couldn't think, I
didn't know what else to say,and what came to me is a
scripture that is very known andobviously it's a very big part
of my life right now, but Iwasn't as familiar with it as I
(15:06):
am now, so it didn't come fromme, and the mantra was I can do
all things through Christ, whostrengthens me, and I'm like
hell.
No, that means she's not goingto make it.
That's lack of faith, betsy.
So delete, delete, delete.
So I'm like, please make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat.
So I'm like, please make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat,
lord, make her heartbeat.
And then I had another moment,and that was a vision of my
(15:32):
sister.
My sister has severe mentalretardation and epilepsy and all
sorts of illnesses or diagnosis, and she was born normal,
diagnosis, and she was bornnormal, but she had rubella and
(15:53):
got sick, a very high fever,convulsions, and and then, you
know, she went on a coma and hadbrain damage as a result of all
of that and that resulted inall these situations.
And, and I remember, when Istarted having children, I
begged God to send me healthychildren, because, while I see
the gifts of having a sisterwith special needs, it's hard,
(16:16):
it's hard.
So I had prayed for health, notbecause there's anything wrong
with kids who have special needs, because God knows my, you know
, we always say that my sisteris an angel, she's a saint,
she's, you know, she's she'sgoodness, she's perfection.
And it's hard and I was hopingfor less hard.
(16:38):
So I had that image of my sisterand the message I received was
Betsy, you know, I could saveher, but she may not be the fofi
, you know.
And I remember thinking I don'tcare, I don't care, just save
her.
I'm going to love her no matterwhat.
Please, god, save her, make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat.
(16:59):
And then the third moment I hadwas at some point I was praying
make her heartbeat, please dothis, please do that, like save
her, like I was telling God whatto do, and that evolved into I
want this, god, make herheartbeat, but let it be your
(17:23):
will.
And I did not mean to say thatbecause I didn't want it to be
anything that wasn't my will.
If his will was mine, then yes,ok, let it be your will.
But there was a moment ofsurrender that came from
something bigger than Betsy andat that moment, my husband.
(17:48):
I'm usually the hopelessromantic, the dreamer.
My husband's the one thatbrings me down to earth and he
reminds me to like walk on.
You know, I'm always walking inclouds.
I'm up and, and at some pointhe was like he was talking to
her and he was like you know,come on, foffy, you're strong,
you got this, m mommy, that yougot this.
And he looked at me.
(18:10):
He's like the doctors aretrying something different.
This is gonna work now, this isgonna work.
And I remember thinking at thatmoment or not thinking.
I remember feeling more pain atthat moment for the hope that
my husband had, like I was.
I was, I was heartbroken by hishope because there was a
(18:34):
knowing inside of me that shewasn't going to move.
And at that moment I fell on myknees and I started singing to
myself a song that I used tosing to an ex-boyfriend who was
going through difficult times,and it was a song of hope and it
(18:55):
says something like you know,the night will pass with its
terror and soon the light willilluminate and shine through
your heart.
So keep on, keep on singing.
You know this celestial song,like, kind of like.
Just remain in hope, becausethis too shall pass.
So I started singing that tomyself and I, just, I just knew,
(19:17):
and all of those three momentswere bigger than me.
They, they like I.
I didn't Like, I didn't producethose moments.
So, soon after, doctors told me, I guess with their gaze or the
way they looked at me, I'm noteven sure if they said words,
(19:39):
but they definitely expressed alot, you know, something to the
lines of there's nothing else wecan do, and they left the room.
And my greatest moment ofcourage early on was, you know,
(20:01):
after that happened and we spentsome time with her, my husband
asked to be left alone with herand he told her what he would
have told her on differentmoments of her life, like
graduations, wedding, 15s.
We celebrate the.
I'm Hispanic, so we celebratethe 15s instead of sweet 16.
He had like a moment with her.
I thought it was so beautifulthat he was inspired to do that,
(20:23):
because who thinks about thatright at that moment?
But it was so healing andbeautiful.
And and then we left without ourdaughter.
You know like when you go intoa hospital with a family member,
with a loved one, you're you'reexpecting to leave with them.
So leaving her felt likeabandoning her and oh it was, it
(20:48):
wasating.
And then, you know, the mediawas waiting for us, so a police
officer had the grace to take ushome so that we wouldn't be
bothered and interrogated.
And you know, and that night,when I was trying to go to sleep
, my husband and I decided to goto sleep in her room, which she
(21:13):
shared with our oldest daughter, and I guess I finally managed
to fall asleep.
And the next thing I know is Iam on the floor of her bathroom
they shared a bathroom in thatroom and I am rocking back and
(21:35):
forth like a deranged womanwanting to pull my head off.
Like, literally, my hands arelike claws in my head.
I'm trying to like rip off myhead because the thoughts of
reality were so unbearable andso dark and so I just I couldn't
.
And for the first time in mylife, I had been a psychologist
(21:58):
for 13 years already.
For the first time in my life,I understood why people go crazy
.
I understood why people gocrazy Because I'm like, oh my
gosh, when reality is unbearable, the next right thing at least
that's what it feels like to thebrain who's trying to keep us
safe and alive is to disconnectfrom reality.
(22:21):
Just rip your head off.
If not literally and physically, then do it by disconnecting.
Tonya Shellnutt (22:29):
Well, along those lines.
We only have a few minutes left.
I hate that we're going to haveto not spend as much time as I
want, but that's the great thingabout this is you get to come
back and you get to share somuch because you have so many
nuggets.
But you talk about in your bookbook, and I want to encourage
everybody to buy this book.
(22:50):
I love it.
It's called hurt to hope Um,the number two.
Hurt, the number two, hope, uh,you can get it on Amazon.
It's an incredible book, um,but you talk about.
You know you had, you had darkdays, you had days of depression
.
You had these days where you'retalking about wanting to escape
reality.
And what advice would you giveto someone who feels like they
(23:14):
can't overcome their currentstruggles?
They're in the same place,right that you know whether
they've lost a child, a spouse,or they're just working through
any kind of adversity.
What advice would you give tothem in this instance in their
life?
Betsy Guerra (23:31):
I would say that's why I titled my book Herd to
Hope I would say, find the hopeand for me it had a lot to do
with faith.
Faith was a big copingmechanism and resource that I
(23:53):
had access to and I understandthat not everybody has that, but
faith allowed me to have thehope that I wasn't in my
destination yet.
And if you struggle with faithor you haven't been raised in
(24:14):
the faith and you're not abeliever, that's okay, because
all of us have access to faith.
I would love to gift you mine,my hope, by sharing with you
that there's a promise that youknow from God, what I call God,
but it's also a promise from theuniverse.
(24:34):
If you don't, you know, if Godis not something you resonate
with.
It's a universal promise, it'snot just a God biblical thing
and that promise is thing.
And that promise is that allthings work for the good of
those who seek that hope.
And I want you to trust andbelieve.
(24:55):
And if you don't believe itwholeheartedly, just borrow it
from me.
Borrow this belief because I do.
I believe it wholeheartedly andat this point I don't need to
believe it because I know it.
I'm a testament of it.
I have experienced it, so Iknow it.
This is a fact.
This is not even a belief, okay, so borrow it from me if you
are having a hard timeexperiencing it or trusting it.
(25:17):
And the belief that I wouldlike for you to trust is that,
if you are in pain, you haven'tarrived, because pain is the
path, never the destination.
So, if you're in adversity, ifyou're in suffering, if you're
in pain, you haven't arrived atyour destination.
(25:38):
You're only in the path, andthe whole purpose of the path is
to train you, to prepare you,to equip you for that big
greatness and joy and peace.
That is the destination.
And, yes, people who believe inGod and who you know, who have
a certain religious formation,may see that destination as
(25:59):
heaven.
Tonya Shellnutt (26:00):
Yes, I'm not that person, 100% that person.
Betsy Guerra (26:04):
And I.
But I, just, I just wantnon-believers to know this is
true for them too.
Right, like you can reach.
Like you can reach heaven too.
Heaven is not a place that yougo to when you die, and there's
a bouncer there called SaintPeter and he decides if you're
in or out.
Like heaven is a state of being, heaven is a state of grace, of
(26:25):
, of joy, of peace, that peaceand joy that surpass all
understanding.
So if you are not there, ifyou're not home where joy and
peace live, then you haven'tarrived.
And that is hope, Tonya.
Hope is knowing that, even whenI am hurting deeply, maybe at
(26:47):
the corner, when I go around thecorner, maybe that's where the
finish line is, maybe that'swhere joy awaits, where peace
awaits, where smiling again iswaiting for me and hope.
Hope would be having thestrength, the determination to
(27:17):
choose hope, because some thingsin life are not our fault.
I moved to a house with a pool.
I put her in survival classes,I put her in swimming classes
right after I was a psycho momwho was always there with her
kids.
I was right there next to her,and this still happens.
We don't have control overthings and and I truly,
wholeheartedly believe todaythat that wasn't my fault.
Tonya Shellnutt (27:36):
Right, yeah, but it took you.
Right, there was a journey ofgetting there.
I think that this is aconversation for another time.
But even in those situationswhere things happen to us that
are often beyond our control,right, like we know my story, I
was sexually abused when I wasfive years old.
That was beyond my control, butthere's still the shame that
(28:00):
goes along with it and the guiltand the journey that's part of
that.
So we're going to have to haveyou back because we're, we're,
we're at our time, but I justwant our listeners to know that,
um, like what you said,obviously I'm a believer.
I believe that, uh, you know,putting our faith in Jesus is is
, um, where so much of thehealing is right.
(28:22):
I mean, he is the one, thehealer of our faith, um, and and
our wounds, and so I'm going tohave you back because I want
you.
There's just so much more thatwe can expand on and I and I
want to say you know, you know,some people may not have lost a
loved one, a child, but the likeyou said in the beginning, the
(28:44):
pain is yours and it's real.
Like you said in the beginning,the pain is yours and it's real
, and this podcast is meant tohighlight people that have
overcome adversity, that havehope, that can show light and
shine light on the pain.
And so, as we wrap up, I justwant to encourage our listeners
to subscribe to CourageousOvercomers and be part of the
(29:06):
community and then also leave afive-star review.
It helps us get hope out faster.
Share this episode with someonethat you know might need to
hear it, because I guarantee youthere's someone out there that
needs to hear this today.
And then also, if you know ofanybody, such as a great person
like Betsy, that would be a goodguest for this show, please
(29:27):
reach out to me at tonya attonyashellnutt.
com, and let me know about themand do an introduction, because
I'd love to have more courageousovercomers on the show.
And so tune in, and nextWednesday we'll be back.
Same time, same place.
And Betsy, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
(29:46):
Thank you for joining us here on Courageous Overcomers with
Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
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(30:07):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
Stories of Hope and Healing.
I'm your host, tanya Shellnutt.
Here we talk about the hardstuff trauma, fear and pain but
let's be honest, so many of ushide from our pain because it's
just so hard to face.
But here's the truth we can'theal what we're not willing to
(00:33):
face, and so I am just soexcited.
Today, everyone, we've got anincredible guest on with us,
Betsy Guerra.
I met her recently in Nashvilleat an event and I loved her
immediately.
There's just so many thingsabout her, but she just felt so
(00:54):
welcoming and I felt veryuncomfortable at this event and
she just welcomed me in.
She gave me a book that she hadwritten and we're going to talk
more about this later, but I'mhere to tell you I read that
book in two settings because itwas just so dynamic, and so I
just want our audience, betsy, Iwant you to tell them a little
bit about yourself, and thenwe're going to just get into how
(01:19):
God has brought you through somuch adversity and you've just
done it in a way that's justcourageous and it's increased
your resiliency.
So just share with our audiencea little bit about yourself,
your family, your husband andyour wonderful kids, and then
we'll dive in.
Betsy Guerra (01:40):
Hey, let's go.
I am really, really excited tobe here, tonya.
I was part of this podcastexperience, part of what we were
doing in that event.
It was bringing this to life,so it's really exciting to me
that I get to be a part of it.
So, thank you, thank you forhaving me.
I am Dr Betsy Guerra, but I lovefor people to call me Betsy.
(02:02):
Get up, but I love for peopleto call me Betsy.
I have a doctorate inpsychology.
That's been my background for20 years and I'm a speaker.
I have a coaching academy, soI'm also a teacher where I have
a faith-based coaching academywhere I train and certify
students on a psycho-spiritualmodel that allows us to serve in
(02:25):
a higher capacity, becausewe're combining psychology with
coaching, with spirituality, andthere's just no limits.
And that's like, in addition toit being my career, my
profession, my business, it'salso my ministry.
It's the way that I use myGod-given gifts to unlock
greatness, to ignite faith andto elevate humanity, which is
(02:46):
what God brought me to thisearth to do, as I think is your
case, because you have a verysimilar ministry, even by doing
this podcast and offering such agift to your audience, and I am
a married woman of 20 years, Iam obsessed with my husband.
I always say that God is mynumber one and he's a close
second.
And we have four childrentogether.
(03:08):
My oldest is 15.
My youngest is 10.
So we had four children in fiveyears and then we got a big TV
because my husband is so sexythat he was really irresistible.
So now we get distracted withTV.
Just kidding, tv, just kidding.
So the you know my fourchildren.
(03:30):
One of them lives in heaven andit it was a result of, of an
accident, right Like it was.
It was completely unexpectedand I have experienced and
endured excruciating pain in mylife.
I'm really devoted to myhusband and my children, my
(03:54):
family.
They're my priority and I neverthought I could be happy again.
I never thought you could behappy again.
I never thought you could riseabove that, even though I
already had my 13 years ofexperience as a therapist.
I had been doing this work.
(04:16):
I understand resilience andcourage and psychology and
adversity and all thepossibilities and coping
mechanisms.
But I think there's nodoctorate, there's no education
that can possibly prepare youfor certain things in life, and
for me it was the loss of mydaughter, but for so many.
It's divorce, it's trauma, it'sabuse, it's even financial
(04:40):
problems or a situation in arelationship with a child, with
a partner, with a friend, with acoworker.
And I want to invite all of thepeople listening to us today
that your pain is your pain andit matters.
Many times we compare and wethink like, oh yes, but I didn't
(05:02):
lose a child, so I shouldn'tfeel this way.
And I don't think that's true,because pain is pain, pain is an
emotion.
What causes the pain is whattells us in society oh yes, it's
okay to feel it or not.
Daughter is is the same painthat anybody else feels for
(05:23):
having a failure or getting a Cin class, if it's someone
younger or you know, everybodyhas their own experiences and if
you experience the emotion ofpain, I, I guess the first
invitation to be courageous inthis, in this adversity, and to
be able to build that resilienceis is to embrace the emotion
(05:47):
and allow and welcome it,because feeling is healing right
.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:52):
Yes, yes, and I've.
I've shared that with myaudience.
We talked a lot about um, thatsaying you can't heal what you
don't face, and um, and andtrying very hard not to minimize
what pain they're going throughversus what my pain through,
what my pain was at the moment.
And so let me ask you this thatyou know, during one of your,
(06:15):
at the time when you lost Fofi,you know the hardest moment of
that time period, what gave youthe courage to keep going?
Because that's one of thethings that we've been talking a
lot about in the last fewepisodes is about courage and
resilience, and I think it takescourage to lean into the pain,
(06:35):
like you're talking about, toface the pain.
So share with our audienceafter your loss Fofi, what kept
you you know, after your lossfofi, like what kept you um, and
and please feel free to sharewith our audience a little bit
about um losing fofi and andwhat that was like for your
family and then what was the?
What was, what gave you thecourage to keep going?
Betsy Guerra (06:57):
okay, so I'll share a little bit about the
what happened, which, for a longtime, was actually the worst
thing that I was experiencing.
It was the how it happened thatwas tormenting me, and it was.
It was the darkness in the painwas how it happened.
We had a fairy tale in our home.
I had my prince charming and wehad these beautiful, healthy
(07:22):
children.
And we had these beautiful,healthy children, and at the
time, I had three, and my son myyoungest was a month old Fofi
was the middle one.
Fofi and her older sister, ChiChi, were the best friends in
the world, so we had a lot ofactivities at home.
We have a very family-orientedhome, very homey, a great
(07:44):
backyard, we have pool andtrampoline and we had a zip line
, and so we did all sorts ofthings in the backyard.
And it's Sunday, august 25, 2013.
And we woke up early, we hadour moments with our daughters
we would always welcome themwith a big hug and a big smile
and we went to church and hadour time with the Lord, and then
(08:07):
we had a barbecue planned inour house, because we were about
to start construction in thebackyard and we wanted to enjoy
one last day in the summer.
So we invited people and familyover and we are, we're about
like people are starting to getthere and my, my daughter Fofi,
tells me we're about like peopleare starting to get there.
And my daughter Fofi tells memami, yo quiero estar donde tu
estes.
(08:27):
Which translates to mami, Iwant to be where you're at.
That was her way of telling me,like, come with me to the pool.
And sometimes we get busy, youknow, catering to people and
hosting and cooking and cleaning, and we don't necessarily
answer or I speak for myself.
At that moment I was like okay,yes, so I was.
(08:48):
I was prepping something in thekitchen and I'm like okay, I'm
gonna go with you because youasked and I'm so grateful I did
right.
So we go into the pool and thenmy husband gets in there too
and we're playing ourcheerleading game, which was
that my oldest would come on myshoulders, then my second one,
(09:09):
fofi, would go on her shouldersand then my husband would carry
the three of us and then wewould like cheer and raise our
hands and do all sorts of things.
And I remember at some point Ihad like Chi Chi on one side, my
oldest and Fofi on the otherside, on the other shoulder, and
Fofi was like holding on to myhead because she was like a
(09:30):
little scared and nervous and Ijust I remember having like so
many I call them holy momentswhere I just are feeling safe
with me and having that memoryyeah, and we're playing.
Then people started getting tomy house and you know, we had a
lot of friends and a lot offamily.
Our friends are like family, sowe were surrounded by beauty
(09:53):
and a whole lot of love and thecousins, right like the kids of
my friends, were there.
So they were playing togetheron the edge of the pool and I
was inside the pool while myhusband was barbecuing.
So I was there with the kidsand with other friends.
And at some point a friend afriend asks where's Fofi, and
(10:17):
Tanya, at that moment, like Iwas like where is she?
Like you know, it was such anormal question, like I just
need to like look around andlook for her.
But something about herquestion, like I felt it in my
core, like it was like I knewand my heart started racing and
I'm like where is Fofi?
(10:38):
And I remember feeling all thisanxiety and I'm not one to feel
anxious and I'm lookingeverywhere and I can't find her.
And it feels like forever, butit was just a couple seconds.
And then at some point I can'tsee her until I look right next
to me and there she was, but atthe bottom of the pool and I see
(10:59):
her polka dot bathing suit,minnie Mouse bathing suit.
And I just go into the waterand I grab her and I clutch her
against my chest and I hold onto her and I'm coming out.
And at that moment I'm feelinghow like I'm being pushed down,
the pressure of the water, butI'm wanting to rise, I'm wanting
to get out of there, I'mwanting to bring her to the
(11:20):
surface.
And it was hard but I pushedthrough.
And you know what?
That was my first moment ofcourage.
My first moment of courage wasto feel that everything was
going against me, pushing medown, and yet I was still
pursuing the going to thesurface and bringing her with me
.
So I brought her out, I put iton the edge of the pool.
(11:40):
I had a friend there who was adoctor, a medical doctor in a
nearby hospital, so she knew CPR.
This is what she did.
So she came immediately, shegave her CPR.
You know, she called.
She spoke to the ambulance and9-1-1.
And she had pulse, right Like Iremember her saying, like she
(12:02):
did have pulse.
And I was at that point, like assoon as she was taken care of
physically, I was like I justneed to pray.
So I was like God, please, god,save her, please save her.
God, you know I'm raising herfor you.
God, please save her.
And I was just so sure that hewould because my faith wasn't a
grain of like a grain of mustard, it was way beyond that and I
(12:25):
was.
I just it was scary but I hadso much faith.
I just I just knew he was gonnasave her.
So, you know, call 911.
The ambulance got there in whatfelt like five minutes,
immediately, super fast, likethey came here fast because we
have a hospital nearby.
I get on the on ambulance.
(12:46):
I'm very cold, very cold.
I was still wet and I rememberlistening to the siren of the
ambulance, like it felt like itwas from afar, but it was right
on top of me because I wasinside there and everything is a
blur and yet so clear in mybody and we're on the way and
(13:09):
I'm just praying and praying,because my thought was, if I
stopped praying.
God may interpret it as lack offaith.
This is all I can do right now.
I'm going to do it.
So I prayed and I prayed and wegot to the hospital in two
minutes and immediately we gotinto a room and that room was
filled with with medicalprofessionals who took care of
(13:31):
my daughter as if, as if she wastheir own, like I felt so
supported.
I felt the presence of Godthere taking care of my daughter
.
So I just I just knew that hewas gonna save her.
And at some point I see thedoctors are trying and they're
not giving up and they're doingall these things and my
daughter's body is still and hereyes are closed.
(13:56):
And at some point I see amonitor in the room and the
monitor had a straight line.
And I'm like, oh, what is that?
Is that a flat line?
Is that what that is?
And I wasn't sure, I couldn'tread it.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto change my prayer.
(14:16):
Make her heartbeat, lord.
Make her heartbeat, please Makeher heartbeat.
Make her heartbeat.
And I just had so much faiththat he would.
And I just had so much faiththat he would.
And I remember having threesigns in that process that felt
(14:37):
like forever and yet was so fast.
The first one was God, give mesomething that I can repeat in
prayer, like you know, give melike a mantra that I can repeat
in prayer.
So I don't have to think,because I couldn't think, I
didn't know what else to say,and what came to me is a
scripture that is very known andobviously it's a very big part
of my life right now, but Iwasn't as familiar with it as I
(15:06):
am now, so it didn't come fromme, and the mantra was I can do
all things through Christ, whostrengthens me, and I'm like
hell.
No, that means she's not goingto make it.
That's lack of faith, betsy.
So delete, delete, delete.
So I'm like, please make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat.
So I'm like, please make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat,
lord, make her heartbeat.
And then I had another moment,and that was a vision of my
(15:32):
sister.
My sister has severe mentalretardation and epilepsy and all
sorts of illnesses or diagnosis, and she was born normal,
diagnosis, and she was bornnormal, but she had rubella and
(15:53):
got sick, a very high fever,convulsions, and and then, you
know, she went on a coma and hadbrain damage as a result of all
of that and that resulted inall these situations.
And, and I remember, when Istarted having children, I
begged God to send me healthychildren, because, while I see
the gifts of having a sisterwith special needs, it's hard,
(16:16):
it's hard.
So I had prayed for health, notbecause there's anything wrong
with kids who have special needs, because God knows my, you know
, we always say that my sisteris an angel, she's a saint,
she's, you know, she's she'sgoodness, she's perfection.
And it's hard and I was hopingfor less hard.
(16:38):
So I had that image of my sisterand the message I received was
Betsy, you know, I could saveher, but she may not be the fofi
, you know.
And I remember thinking I don'tcare, I don't care, just save
her.
I'm going to love her no matterwhat.
Please, god, save her, make herheartbeat, make her heartbeat.
(16:59):
And then the third moment I hadwas at some point I was praying
make her heartbeat, please dothis, please do that, like save
her, like I was telling God whatto do, and that evolved into I
want this, god, make herheartbeat, but let it be your
(17:23):
will.
And I did not mean to say thatbecause I didn't want it to be
anything that wasn't my will.
If his will was mine, then yes,ok, let it be your will.
But there was a moment ofsurrender that came from
something bigger than Betsy andat that moment, my husband.
(17:48):
I'm usually the hopelessromantic, the dreamer.
My husband's the one thatbrings me down to earth and he
reminds me to like walk on.
You know, I'm always walking inclouds.
I'm up and, and at some pointhe was like he was talking to
her and he was like you know,come on, foffy, you're strong,
you got this, m mommy, that yougot this.
And he looked at me.
(18:10):
He's like the doctors aretrying something different.
This is gonna work now, this isgonna work.
And I remember thinking at thatmoment or not thinking.
I remember feeling more pain atthat moment for the hope that
my husband had, like I was.
I was, I was heartbroken by hishope because there was a
(18:34):
knowing inside of me that shewasn't going to move.
And at that moment I fell on myknees and I started singing to
myself a song that I used tosing to an ex-boyfriend who was
going through difficult times,and it was a song of hope and it
(18:55):
says something like you know,the night will pass with its
terror and soon the light willilluminate and shine through
your heart.
So keep on, keep on singing.
You know this celestial song,like, kind of like.
Just remain in hope, becausethis too shall pass.
So I started singing that tomyself and I, just, I just knew,
(19:17):
and all of those three momentswere bigger than me.
They, they like I.
I didn't Like, I didn't producethose moments.
So, soon after, doctors told me, I guess with their gaze or the
way they looked at me, I'm noteven sure if they said words,
(19:39):
but they definitely expressed alot, you know, something to the
lines of there's nothing else wecan do, and they left the room.
And my greatest moment ofcourage early on was, you know,
(20:01):
after that happened and we spentsome time with her, my husband
asked to be left alone with herand he told her what he would
have told her on differentmoments of her life, like
graduations, wedding, 15s.
We celebrate the.
I'm Hispanic, so we celebratethe 15s instead of sweet 16.
He had like a moment with her.
I thought it was so beautifulthat he was inspired to do that,
(20:23):
because who thinks about thatright at that moment?
But it was so healing andbeautiful.
And and then we left without ourdaughter.
You know like when you go intoa hospital with a family member,
with a loved one, you're you'reexpecting to leave with them.
So leaving her felt likeabandoning her and oh it was, it
(20:48):
wasating.
And then, you know, the mediawas waiting for us, so a police
officer had the grace to take ushome so that we wouldn't be
bothered and interrogated.
And you know, and that night,when I was trying to go to sleep
, my husband and I decided to goto sleep in her room, which she
(21:13):
shared with our oldest daughter, and I guess I finally managed
to fall asleep.
And the next thing I know is Iam on the floor of her bathroom
they shared a bathroom in thatroom and I am rocking back and
(21:35):
forth like a deranged womanwanting to pull my head off.
Like, literally, my hands arelike claws in my head.
I'm trying to like rip off myhead because the thoughts of
reality were so unbearable andso dark and so I just I couldn't
.
And for the first time in mylife, I had been a psychologist
(21:58):
for 13 years already.
For the first time in my life,I understood why people go crazy
.
I understood why people gocrazy Because I'm like, oh my
gosh, when reality is unbearable, the next right thing at least
that's what it feels like to thebrain who's trying to keep us
safe and alive is to disconnectfrom reality.
(22:21):
Just rip your head off.
If not literally and physically, then do it by disconnecting.
Tonya Shellnutt (22:29):
Well, along those lines.
We only have a few minutes left.
I hate that we're going to haveto not spend as much time as I
want, but that's the great thingabout this is you get to come
back and you get to share somuch because you have so many
nuggets.
But you talk about in your bookbook, and I want to encourage
everybody to buy this book.
(22:50):
I love it.
It's called hurt to hope Um,the number two.
Hurt, the number two, hope, uh,you can get it on Amazon.
It's an incredible book, um,but you talk about.
You know you had, you had darkdays, you had days of depression
.
You had these days where you'retalking about wanting to escape
reality.
And what advice would you giveto someone who feels like they
(23:14):
can't overcome their currentstruggles?
They're in the same place,right that you know whether
they've lost a child, a spouse,or they're just working through
any kind of adversity.
What advice would you give tothem in this instance in their
life?
Betsy Guerra (23:31):
I would say that's why I titled my book Herd to
Hope I would say, find the hopeand for me it had a lot to do
with faith.
Faith was a big copingmechanism and resource that I
(23:53):
had access to and I understandthat not everybody has that, but
faith allowed me to have thehope that I wasn't in my
destination yet.
And if you struggle with faithor you haven't been raised in
(24:14):
the faith and you're not abeliever, that's okay, because
all of us have access to faith.
I would love to gift you mine,my hope, by sharing with you
that there's a promise that youknow from God, what I call God,
but it's also a promise from theuniverse.
(24:34):
If you don't, you know, if Godis not something you resonate
with.
It's a universal promise, it'snot just a God biblical thing
and that promise is thing.
And that promise is that allthings work for the good of
those who seek that hope.
And I want you to trust andbelieve.
(24:55):
And if you don't believe itwholeheartedly, just borrow it
from me.
Borrow this belief because I do.
I believe it wholeheartedly andat this point I don't need to
believe it because I know it.
I'm a testament of it.
I have experienced it, so Iknow it.
This is a fact.
This is not even a belief, okay, so borrow it from me if you
are having a hard timeexperiencing it or trusting it.
(25:17):
And the belief that I wouldlike for you to trust is that,
if you are in pain, you haven'tarrived, because pain is the
path, never the destination.
So, if you're in adversity, ifyou're in suffering, if you're
in pain, you haven't arrived atyour destination.
(25:38):
You're only in the path, andthe whole purpose of the path is
to train you, to prepare you,to equip you for that big
greatness and joy and peace.
That is the destination.
And, yes, people who believe inGod and who you know, who have
a certain religious formation,may see that destination as
(25:59):
heaven.
Tonya Shellnutt (26:00):
Yes, I'm not that person, 100% that person.
Betsy Guerra (26:04):
And I.
But I, just, I just wantnon-believers to know this is
true for them too.
Right, like you can reach.
Like you can reach heaven too.
Heaven is not a place that yougo to when you die, and there's
a bouncer there called SaintPeter and he decides if you're
in or out.
Like heaven is a state of being, heaven is a state of grace, of
(26:25):
, of joy, of peace, that peaceand joy that surpass all
understanding.
So if you are not there, ifyou're not home where joy and
peace live, then you haven'tarrived.
And that is hope, Tonya.
Hope is knowing that, even whenI am hurting deeply, maybe at
(26:47):
the corner, when I go around thecorner, maybe that's where the
finish line is, maybe that'swhere joy awaits, where peace
awaits, where smiling again iswaiting for me and hope.
Hope would be having thestrength, the determination to
(27:17):
choose hope, because some thingsin life are not our fault.
I moved to a house with a pool.
I put her in survival classes,I put her in swimming classes
right after I was a psycho momwho was always there with her
kids.
I was right there next to her,and this still happens.
We don't have control overthings and and I truly,
wholeheartedly believe todaythat that wasn't my fault.
Tonya Shellnutt (27:36):
Right, yeah, but it took you.
Right, there was a journey ofgetting there.
I think that this is aconversation for another time.
But even in those situationswhere things happen to us that
are often beyond our control,right, like we know my story, I
was sexually abused when I wasfive years old.
That was beyond my control, butthere's still the shame that
(28:00):
goes along with it and the guiltand the journey that's part of
that.
So we're going to have to haveyou back because we're, we're,
we're at our time, but I justwant our listeners to know that,
um, like what you said,obviously I'm a believer.
I believe that, uh, you know,putting our faith in Jesus is is
, um, where so much of thehealing is right.
(28:22):
I mean, he is the one, thehealer of our faith, um, and and
our wounds, and so I'm going tohave you back because I want
you.
There's just so much more thatwe can expand on and I and I
want to say you know, you know,some people may not have lost a
loved one, a child, but the likeyou said in the beginning, the
(28:44):
pain is yours and it's real.
Like you said in the beginning,the pain is yours and it's real
, and this podcast is meant tohighlight people that have
overcome adversity, that havehope, that can show light and
shine light on the pain.
And so, as we wrap up, I justwant to encourage our listeners
to subscribe to CourageousOvercomers and be part of the
(29:06):
community and then also leave afive-star review.
It helps us get hope out faster.
Share this episode with someonethat you know might need to
hear it, because I guarantee youthere's someone out there that
needs to hear this today.
And then also, if you know ofanybody, such as a great person
like Betsy, that would be a goodguest for this show, please
(29:27):
reach out to me at tonya attonyashellnutt.
com, and let me know about themand do an introduction, because
I'd love to have more courageousovercomers on the show.
And so tune in, and nextWednesday we'll be back.
Same time, same place.
And Betsy, thank you so muchfor being with us today.
(29:46):
Thank you for joining us here on Courageous Overcomers with
Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tonya
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
(30:07):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!