July 9, 2025 • 29 mins
Welcome to Courageous Overcomers, where we share real stories of faith, grit, and healing. Today’s guest is John Mollura—a man who went from launching rockets for NASA to launching people into their purpose.
After facing deep personal pain and burnout, John made a bold pivot. He left the world of high-pressure engineering to become a portrait photographer, coach, and speaker. Now he helps people silence the lies that keep them stuck and step into the courage it takes to live fully alive.
In this episode, John opens up about his own moments of fear, loss, and doubt and how God used them to shape something far greater than he imagined. His story is a reminder that it’s never too late to shift gears, reclaim your identity, and become who you were made to be.
https://www.instagram.com/john_mollura/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya Shellnutt (00:08):
Well, welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shullnutt.
I'm so excited for you guys tobe with us today.
I have an exciting guest.
His name is John Malura, andwe're going to get ready to dive
into some great stuff aboutJohn, and I'm really excited for
you guys to.
I'm going to tease him a littlebit, but he's a NASA rocket
(00:33):
scientist and I've neverinterviewed a NASA rocket
scientist, so I'm kind offangirling a little bit, but we
are so excited that you are withus, john.
He is a speaker and a coach andwe're going to dive into that
later in this episode.
But, um, before we do that, john, I just want to give you an
opportunity to you know, thispodcast is about courageous
(00:56):
overcomers, people that havegone through adversity.
Um, I know that that'ssomething that's happened to you
, so share a little bit with usabout you know, your upbringing,
how you got to be a NASAscientist, because I think
that's an important part of whoyou are.
You're incredibly intellectualand we know that people that
(01:16):
have that gift of intellect cancome sometimes overthinking to
their detriment, and so I wantyou just to share with our
audience a little bit about yourbackstory and then we'll dive
into some more questions here ina minute.
John Malura (01:31):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, thanks for theopportunity to be here and serve
your audiences.
Tonya, and no one was moresurprised that I ended up
working on NASA and elitemilitary unit projects than I
was, because I was by no meanslike a straight A student or 4.0
GPA.
In fact, the way I ended upworking in the space program
(01:54):
immediately after graduatingfrom Penn State with a
mechanical engineering degreewas it had a lot to do with mice
, which people were like oh,like laboratory experiments,
like is that what you mean?
I'm like, no, not at all.
The first incident that involvedmice was when a internship that
I was supposed to have withDisney World fell through, right
(02:16):
, and I I didn't have a plan B.
So I found myself working at asummer camp in the Catskills
that my fraternity brotherhooked me up with and since I
was unskilled labor, I had allthe very unglamorous jobs, such
as scrubbing rust off propanetanks out in the sun and also
(02:38):
pulling dead mice out of toilets.
Those were my jobs.
That was, those were my jobs.
And like very, yeah, disney,and then dead mice out of toys,
I was like what, what have Idone to offend the mice gods of
the world, right, right.
So when an opportunity presenteditself for me to be a director
of rock climbing at this, at thesummer camp for for boy scouts,
(02:59):
I I jumped on it and they saidyou know, do you know how to
rock climb?
I said no and they said, well,okay, we'll train you.
Are you scared of heights?
And I said do you know, do youknow how to rock climb?
I said no and they said, well,okay, we'll train you.
Are you scared of heights?
And I said, absolutely, when doI ship out?
Like I just I knew like I wasmeant for more than pulling dead
mice out of toilets.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Right.
John Malura (03:14):
So that job in 1998 was actually what landed me in
the space program.
Because when I applied to acompany that was a government
contractor that worked on NASAmissions, I had on my resume
that I was director of rockclimbing.
I thought it showedresponsibility.
Like I, I led a staff.
(03:35):
I didn't kill anybody, or evenno one got severely hurt during
my tenure.
During that.
That's important right.
It's generally frowned upon toinjure and or kill right, yes,
yes, yes, yes.
So when that was on my resume, Iwas interviewing to be like a
project manager or something Ididn't know any better, which,
knowing what I know now, I wouldhave been a horrible project
(03:55):
manager, right.
But when that was on my resume,it got the attention of the
lead test engineer for the Marsexploration rover that was
landing in 2003.
Little known to me, this guywas former special forces in
Vietnam and went on to become asurvival instructor in the
military and his team'sresponsibilities were whatever
(04:19):
whiz bang system was created,his team's job was to make sure
it did what it was supposed todo before it needed to do it.
Like, so you do ground testing,do whatever we could to make
sure that before you crashsomething in the Mars like we
don't do that.
So when they saw a direct or sawrock climbing on my resume, he
said here's someone who is smartenough and as as as he would
(04:43):
say, he became a mentor of mine.
His name was Skip.
Skip would say I don't needanother egghead, I need someone
that I can send out into theworld anywhere across the world
and not get himself killed.
He goes I think you're the job,you're the guy for that.
I went okay, cool.
So that is actually how I endedup working in the space program
.
It was through various likecascading, you know,
(05:06):
misdirections and failures.
When you know, of course, youlook back on it now it's like oh
, of course that was the plan,you know, thank you God.
But like, while you're in it,it's like I'm I'm literally
pulling dead, dead rodents outof water right now.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Right.
John Malura (05:20):
Right, how can, how can this get turned around?
So that's how I ended upworking in the space program.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:26):
OK, that's not the normal recruitment path.
No, no, no, but still anincredible story and it actually
experience you know, reallyhelped you to get you to where
you are now.
Because tell, tell our audiencea little bit about your
upbringing and your family lifeand share a little bit about
(05:49):
that.
John Malura (05:57):
Yeah, so I, I was an only child and during during
my upbringing, you know, I wasjust always very curious, you
know, just always just wantingto understand how how things
worked.
And school never came easy forme, even though I was, I was
intelligent, but school justnever came easy for me, Like I
had to work really hard, Latercame out to be diagnosed with
(06:18):
very significant ADHD as anadult, to which I was like those
people are the brightest peoplein the world, john, okay, so
yeah, I have a little bit ofthat too, but anyway, yes, go on
so, but I didn't.
I didn't, I didn't know thatlike, because when I was growing
up in the 80s and early 90s inschool, the, the kids that got
(06:38):
diagnosed with that were likebouncing off the wall.
Well, that that wasn't me, Ijust right.
You know I was off in the cloudsomewhere a lot of times.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:46):
Right.
John Malura (06:47):
So growing up like school was really hard for me.
Athletics, you know, were neverreally my, my thing and you
know, then I transferred schoolsa number of times and ended up
transferring like high schooland just fell in with not a
great crowd and a lot of that,you know, just really was fed by
(07:10):
a very low self-confidencegrowing up.
So, even though, like I wouldhave successes and like even
when I went on to work in thespace program, I just had
massive amounts of self-doubt,like to the point where it was
like very severe anxiety and Ieventually thought, you know, if
(07:30):
I do the next thing, if I, if Iraise my hand for the next
mission, for the next hazardous,potentially hazardous operation
, like maybe then I'll feelenough and spoiler alert, you
don't, you know, you just buildthis house of cards up even
higher.
And so eventually, you know, Iwas just left like in the wind
where I felt like if I make onewrong step like this is all
(07:54):
going to come crashing down onme.
Tonya Shellnutt (07:57):
So, john, I want you to share with our
audience a little bit about.
You know, we talked about theoverthinking and the anxiety,
the perfectionism, and I think alot, of a lot of people
struggle with that.
I know a couple of my kidsstruggle with that.
I used to struggle with thatand it's a very real thing and I
(08:19):
think a lot of people feel like, well, I'm different or this is
.
You know, I can't get throughthis or whatever it might be.
I want you to share with ouraudience a little bit about what
brought you to that breakingpoint, as you were feeling all
of those things.
So you know, there's a personaltragedy that happened.
I want you to share a littlewith them about that, because I
(08:42):
think there's a lot of peopleout there that can identify with
that, those emotions, and don'tknow what to do with it.
So share with us a little bityour journey on how God has kind
of walked you through that,what happened, and then in the
journey, yeah.
John Malura (08:56):
So overthinking perfectionism, procrastination,
like that was just how I, how Ioperated, and a lot of times,
what I would do and, of course,this is like hindsight, by the
way it's like I was completelyoblivious to at the point.
I would have these brave delaysI would you know I've come to
(09:18):
call them where, like part of myjob being in test operations
was we would have to write theplans for how we were going to
test the airbags that weresupposed to land on Mars, like
how are we going to simulatethat?
It's like very detailed stuff.
Some of the projects we'd workwith were, you know, we had
explosives and high energysystems like potentially, you
(09:39):
know, fatal systems if we didn'tdo our thing right, systems if
we didn't do our thing right.
So I would tell myself that, oh, the reason why it's taking me
so long to write this is it hasto be perfect, because someone
could get hurt or killed, rightyeah, which was not untrue,
right but?
And what I would do was becauseI had such low self-confidence
(09:59):
like I people didn't talk aboutimposter syndrome back then, but
that's, that's what I had.
Like, I had that's feeling likeI was a fake and like I
shouldn't be here and I'm notsmart enough to be here.
You know people are going tofind out about me and, and you
know, everything's going to belost and I'm going to be pulling
dead mice out of toilets againfor a job like you know, like,
like, just catastrophizeeverything.
(10:20):
So when it would come time forme to write these test plans or
test reports, after the fact, Iwould take forever.
And again, the story I toldmyself was these have to be
perfect so no one gets hurt or,like you know, the million
million dollar thing doesn't getdestroyed, when really what it
was Tanya was I hid behind thisveil of perfectionismism because
(10:43):
I didn't want to hand it to myteammate, frank, and be like hey
, frank, here's this test reportor test plan.
Look it over, tell me what Imissed, help me see the woods
through the trees, brother, andthen hand it back to me and I'll
fix it.
I didn't do that, me, and I'llfix it.
I didn't do that because Ialready felt like I wasn't
worthy to be there and I didn'twant to give anybody any any
(11:04):
ammunition to prove my fearsRight.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:07):
Yeah, yeah.
John Malura (11:14):
So I would just hide behind this perfectionism
and procrastination, but youknow, had this mentality that it
was a brave delay, I was doingthe right thing.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, I wrote that down.
I'm a brave delay and you know,I can think of a couple of
people that I know that really,really struggle with that
imposter syndrome.
So talk, talk, share with ouraudience about the, the personal
tragedy that was your breakingpoint.
Share with us about that.
John Malura (11:39):
Yeah, so in 2009, I had just become a father and
that I had massive fear forbeing a horrible father.
Like I just had a lot ofstories in my head, a lot of
limiting beliefs, that I wasjust scared to death about being
a bad father.
And then, not long after ourfirst child was born, one of my
(12:04):
best childhood friends took hisown life in an intentional
overdose, and he was someone Ireally looked up to and to make
it.
I don't even know if it made itworse, but it really just
twisted my head.
Even more was that he and I hadbeen estranged for a number of
years because I had a fallingout with his then wife.
(12:25):
So I hadn't spoken to him inyears until I got a call from a
mutual friend on like thisbeautiful day in in May and
saying he was, he was dead andit was like, yeah, I didn't even
know how to process that right,like Like I don't remember the
rest of the day, like I just itwas a blur.
And coupled with the fact thatnow I had been in this career,
(12:48):
this high pressure career, highprofile career, for at this
point over eight years as a newfather, I just found out my
friend had taken his own life.
It just left me in this hazewhere I couldn't, I just
couldn't get out of like this,like just very negative mindset.
And it's very important to notethat up until this time, which
(13:10):
I was about, I was about 30,right before my 32nd birthday,
when all this went down.
You know, like after I turned18 and graduated Catholic high
school, I wanted nothing to dowith religion.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:23):
Yeah.
John Malura (13:23):
Like, not even, like I'm not even gonna say,
it's not even that I wantednothing to do with religion as,
like I was anti-religion.
Like I very much relate withthe apostle Paul.
Yeah, right Before, before theDamascus road experience,
whereas, like if I found outsomeone was religious and it
didn't matter, like you know,judaism, christianity.
Like if I found out someone wasreligious and it didn't matter,
(13:44):
like you know, judaism,christianity, muslim.
Like I would say to people likewhat are you too weak to do
life on your own?
You?
Tonya Shellnutt (13:49):
need the crutch of religion?
John Malura (13:50):
Yeah, because I just had such hurt that I was
exposed to and trauma exposed inhigh school.
I wanted nothing to do with it.
School, I wanted nothing to dowith it.
So, fast forward, like here Iam.
My early thirties have have nofaith.
It was a very anti-faith and Ijust reached this breaking point
(14:11):
where one day before work I wasthinking like I don't know how
to, how to keep going on.
I don't, I don't know.
Maybe, maybe my friend had itright by checking out and I I've
come to realize that at thatmoment it was the Holy spirit
who planted the serenity prayerin my head Like cause.
It just popped in my headseemingly out of nowhere.
Tonya Shellnutt (14:33):
Right.
John Malura (14:34):
Keep in mind I hadn't prayed in 14 years and so
, but I said the serenity prayer.
I remember it said you know,god, you grant me the serenity
prayer I remember.
I said you know, god, grant methe serenity to accept the
things I cannot change, thecourage to change the things
that I can.
And as soon as I said, in thewisdom to know the difference,
this warm sensation came over mehead to toe yeah and like I was
(14:58):
like what the heck was that?
I was like I've either just lostmy mind or maybe there's
something to this God thing.
So, just like with the ApostlePaul, after you know the
Damascus Road experience withthe proverbial scales, like fell
from my eyes, yeah, from myeyes.
(15:20):
Yeah, and the you know it's,it's, it's, it's so true that
you know, before god can do workthrough you, he's got to do
some work in you and boy, did hedo a lot of work in me?
yeah, because the first thingthat happened was after I said
that prayer like it.
I was so broken that I I justno longer had the strength to
(15:45):
resist jesus and the holy spirit.
Tonya Shellnutt (15:48):
You know that was always there after you.
He'll come after you.
John Malura (15:51):
Yes, he will and, uh I, I finally accepted jesus
and the holy spirit and startedlooking at myself and like, here
I was, like I was an eliteperformer, like I was elite, you
know, at work.
I worked with elite units and Iwas also.
You know, I'll keep this PG asI can, but I was an elite a-hole
(16:13):
too, right.
I built this veneer, thisdefense mechanism, up around me
because I had such lowself-esteem, such low confidence
and I and I felt like such afake in this job, despite, you
know, a ridiculous track recordof like astounding successes.
I just felt like the next oneswhere they're going to figure me
(16:34):
out, the next ones where I'mgoing to blow it, right.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:37):
So I want to, I want to unpack that a little
bit.
There's a couple of things Iwant to unpack.
First and foremost, I think, um, you know when?
When we, I lost my mom early onand and that is where God met
me.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Um when.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:50):
I lost my mom.
It was, um, uh, very, verytraumatic and I, I was always
like, well, how, why would aloving God, you know, take my
mom early?
She had so much I mean, she wasonly 47 when she died you know
why would, why would he do that?
And so I really struggled withthat.
But I think it's important toknow that God is always pursuing
(17:13):
us Right, and because he, he,he knows that, he, he wants us
to have a relationship with him.
And so, you know, some peoplewill think, well, I'm just too
far gone, or, like you said, Iwas too big of an a-hole, so
God's never going to use me, orGod's never going to, you know,
whatever it might be.
(17:33):
And you literally had turnedyour back, I mean, you had
hardened your heart, I justdidn't know, I was completely
ignorant.
But but I think it's importantfor people to know that God is
always pursuing you because hewants to have a relationship
with you and he'll find you oneway or the other.
He's going to find you.
(17:54):
So, so it.
It doesn't help to to keeppushing him off.
I think the great thing that Goddid with you, john, that so
many people don't do, is he gotyou to look at yourself
internally, and that's a miraclein and of itself, right,
(18:16):
because that's half the battlein our healing is when we can
look at ourselves and identifywhat we need to be working on.
So, when God got a hold of youand he was, you know, tapping on
your shoulder, what were someof the things that he was asking
you to look at, john?
John Malura (18:34):
About how I would respond to people.
Out of fear, yeah, and it wouldlike.
If I, if I, if anyone would aska question of me, or or, I
would interpret it as like theywere questioning like my work or
my integrity and my capability,like any of the things that,
like these worldly things that Ihad built myself up upon, I
(18:54):
would just, I would, I wouldreact like very, very forcefully
, like I was a verbal assassin,like I would just, I would just
cut their legs out fromunderneath them.
So the first thing god did wasstarted helping me see.
Like you know, would would puta a spirit of conviction on me
afterwards, and I always like tomake sure that I I
(19:19):
differentiate betweencondemnation and conviction.
Yeah, like condemnation is fromthe enemy.
Condemnation and conviction,yeah, like condemnation is from
the enemy.
Condemnation is that voiceinside of you that says you're
too far gone, you'll never dothis, all is hopeless.
That's a lie from the enemy.
Conviction is from the HolySpirit, and that's like saying
like, hey, you done screwed up,buddy.
(19:39):
Right Now, what are we going todo to get you out of it?
Right, how are we going to walkthrough that?
So the first thing God did washelp me see how I was showing up
and like would convict my heartafter these incidents and I
would eventually learn to pausebefore I would just react and,
like you know, act, like theincredible Hulk you know, switch
(20:01):
instantaneously.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:02):
Yeah.
So why do you think so manypeople struggle with the
imposter syndrome?
And and how did they begin?
Cause, again, I can just thinkof a few people off off hand.
How can we?
What tools or advice do yougive them?
And why?
Why do they struggle with it?
Like, like, because, again, thefirst part of it is identifying
(20:23):
that you even struggle with it.
So give us some examples ofthat right.
John Malura (20:28):
so in in a we're.
We're in a society where a lotof times it's, if you take a
credit for things or like thingsyou've done, or like you talk
about things you've done like,there's such a negative
connotation with that, and youknow we're taught to play small,
be humble, like, and there's abig difference between being
(20:50):
humble and being able to acceptyour wins.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:55):
Yeah, that's good.
John Malura (20:56):
It's so important to accept our wins, not because
we get our value from that or weget validated from from those
wins, but when we are able toaccept what we have done.
The important thing is torecognize those and pause for a
moment and celebrate like highperformers, like like we're
(21:19):
notorious for we're just ontothe next thing.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:21):
Like, like we're notorious for we're just
onto the next thing.
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, I'm justsitting here listening to you
going gosh.
I, I, I struggle with that.
I, I struggle when people giveme compliments.
Recently, my husband and I justwent on a trip and we were
forced to relax.
I, I couldn't do it.
It it took me three days tojust shut the brain down and and
(21:45):
be present because I wasthinking about I got to do this
or I got to do that, and I wasjust kept moving from the one
thing to the next.
And so I, I struggle with this.
I don't think I struggle somuch with the imposter part of
it, but I struggle with justbeing able to I can't remember
how you said it, but be in thetake the win, yeah, so how do I
(22:09):
do that, john Cause?
I, I don't even know how to dothat.
How do I take the win?
What does that look like?
John Malura (22:15):
Right, and that's such a that's a fantastic
question, and one of the biggestthings that we can do is switch
from autopilot and be aware.
Yeah, and that's what with what?
With with so much, if we couldswitch from autopilot to being
aware, and just being awaregives us that, that presence of
mind where we can startresponding and we can pause,
(22:38):
like, like, we don't have tothrow a party every time we, we,
we have a win, but it'simportant to let it land,
because if we don't have tothrow a party every time we, we,
we have a win, but it'simportant to let it land,
because if you don't let thosewins land mentally, like, your
nervous system is never going tofeel them either, and then what
happens?
There is, then.
That's why we're alwaysstriving, that's why we're
always stressed, that's whywe're always trying to do the
(22:58):
next thing and why we never feelenough.
Like our body's just like, justphysiologically, like on edge,
so like the wall behind me, likethese are all things that I've
earned throughout.
You know my engineering career,photography career, like
coaching, and it's not there tobe like, hey, check out what I
did.
It's there to remind me of whoI became in the process of that
(23:22):
achievement.
It's not about the me of who Ibecame in the process of that
achievement.
It's not about the achievement.
Tonya Shellnutt (23:26):
It's about who I became Right.
I love that.
That's so good.
Well, we're running out of time, but I want you, because you're
just you're bringing up so manygood things I want you to share
with our audience, for thosepeople that you know struggle in
this area, you know share withthem.
You know what are you workingon now through your coaching and
your speaking.
What are some of the nuggetsthat you can share with our
(23:49):
audience on that front?
John Malura (23:51):
Right so folks can can find you know my my six
checkpoints, you know, for eliteaction on my website,
johnmaloracom.
Slash free stuff.
I kept it easy.
There's the elite action flightplan.
That kept it easy.
There's the lead action flightplan.
That's right there.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a free, downloadable PDFwhere I step you through this,
the six checkpoints that I havefound that help us really
(24:13):
navigate to just really beingable to own our wins, with the
intention of again not beingbraggadocious but building our
confidence, because the more webelieve in ourselves, the more
we can serve others.
Tonya Shellnutt (24:25):
Yes, that's so great.
I love that line right there.
The more that we believe inourselves, the more we can serve
others.
That's great.
Yes, unpack that a little bitmore.
That's so good.
John Malura (24:36):
Sure sure.
Because so often we findourselves doing things for the
wrong reason or we don't keepcommitments to ourselves and our
confidence takes a hit.
And when we talk aboutconfidence, again, there's such
a negative connotation.
It's like, oh, if they'reconfident, I bet they're cocky
or I bet they're a jerk.
It's like no confidence is abelief in your own abilities.
(24:56):
And the way we do that is notby.
You know, giant accolades,giant wins.
The way we build our confidence, tanya, is we keep promises to
ourselves, because how easy isit to remain accountable to
another person?
But when it comes to ourselves,a lot of times we break
integrity with ourselves yeah,yeah, that's so good so.
(25:22):
So the six checkpoints that Ihave are the first is confidence
, because if we start takingkeeping little promises to
ourselves, our brain's going towork on that information and
chew on and be like, oh, that'sright, I show up for myself, I
keep my promises to myself, andthat builds real confidence.
And then we can talk about thelegacy that we're building, and
by legacy I mean, like havingthis vision of like who this
(25:45):
future you is out there and likeI have a framework to help
people understand who that is,like your covenant and
connections, like what's thatlook like?
What are your finances looklike what?
How do you fund the life thatyou want to live to be of
service?
You know, how do we, how do wedevelop ourselves?
How do what's our, what's ourresilience look like?
(26:09):
What's our health look like?
Because in those moments whenwe're faced with a decision we
have them every day, some big,some little we're faced with
these decisions, and how oftendo we say is this what I want to
do right now or not?
And a lot of times it might belike, no, I don't want to do
this right now, I'm tired, I'm,I'm, I'm tapped out.
So we need to ask a betterquestion to honor this future
version of ourself.
And that question is is thisaction or inaction right now
(26:34):
going to keep me stuck where I'mat, or is this going to help me
be a hero to this futureversion of myself?
Yeah, that's a differentquestion than do I want to do
this or don't I?
Tonya Shellnutt (26:46):
Yeah, it's so good.
So I just want to wrap up.
I want our audience to go toyour website.
It's John J O H N Molura.
M O L L U R Acom.
Slash free stuff.
Go get the free stuff.
I've downloaded that.
Obviously, I have some work.
I want to look through that too, and I love the legacy part of
(27:08):
it.
That's a message that I've beenspeaking about.
Losing my mom early on reallycaused me to think about the
time that we have here on earthand the impact that we can make,
which is why I feel so led todo what I'm doing, because I
want to free people, to knowthat they don't have to be in
bondage to all of this stuff,and so John's got some really
(27:31):
great stuff.
He does coaching and speaking,so I want our audience to go
visit his website and, john,thank you so much for being with
us today.
I just really appreciate youand your insight.
Is there any last words ofwisdom that you want to give to
our audience today?
John Malura (27:46):
Yeah, one of the greatest lies of the enemy is
that you're alone and that againthe enemy will try to condemn
you and say you're alone, you'retoo far gone, you're too much
of a screw up, you've hurt toomany people, you're too far gone
.
And I just want've hurt toomany people Like you, like
you're too far gone, and I justwant to encourage them that that
is an absolute lie.
(28:07):
Like I was able to turn my lifearound through the grace of God
and some very hard work on myown.
Like God will partner with you,but you got to put in the work
sometimes, absolutely, yeah.
So, so you are enough and you'renot alone, and don't believe
that lie that you're ever toofar gone.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:24):
Yeah, that's great, and I'll just redirect
our audience to you.
Want to go to my website,wwwtonyashellnutt.
com.
I have a five-day healingcleanse workbook where you can
begin to look at some of thosewounds that you know that you
have.
That can help you begin toidentify well, what do I need to
work on?
Because sometimes you're justso overwhelmed and you don't
(28:44):
know what you need to work on.
So I want to encourage you togo download that, send us any
questions that you have on ourwebsite and always, please leave
us a five-star review, becausewe can get hope out faster.
We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thanks, Thank you for joining us here on Courageous
Overcomers with Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tonya
(29:20):
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Well, welcome to Courageous Overcomers.
I'm your host, tonya Shullnutt.
I'm so excited for you guys tobe with us today.
I have an exciting guest.
His name is John Malura, andwe're going to get ready to dive
into some great stuff aboutJohn, and I'm really excited for
you guys to.
I'm going to tease him a littlebit, but he's a NASA rocket
(00:33):
scientist and I've neverinterviewed a NASA rocket
scientist, so I'm kind offangirling a little bit, but we
are so excited that you are withus, john.
He is a speaker and a coach andwe're going to dive into that
later in this episode.
But, um, before we do that, john, I just want to give you an
opportunity to you know, thispodcast is about courageous
(00:56):
overcomers, people that havegone through adversity.
Um, I know that that'ssomething that's happened to you
, so share a little bit with usabout you know, your upbringing,
how you got to be a NASAscientist, because I think
that's an important part of whoyou are.
You're incredibly intellectualand we know that people that
(01:16):
have that gift of intellect cancome sometimes overthinking to
their detriment, and so I wantyou just to share with our
audience a little bit about yourbackstory and then we'll dive
into some more questions here ina minute.
John Malura (01:31):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, thanks for theopportunity to be here and serve
your audiences.
Tonya, and no one was moresurprised that I ended up
working on NASA and elitemilitary unit projects than I
was, because I was by no meanslike a straight A student or 4.0
GPA.
In fact, the way I ended upworking in the space program
(01:54):
immediately after graduatingfrom Penn State with a
mechanical engineering degreewas it had a lot to do with mice
, which people were like oh,like laboratory experiments,
like is that what you mean?
I'm like, no, not at all.
The first incident that involvedmice was when a internship that
I was supposed to have withDisney World fell through, right
(02:16):
, and I I didn't have a plan B.
So I found myself working at asummer camp in the Catskills
that my fraternity brotherhooked me up with and since I
was unskilled labor, I had allthe very unglamorous jobs, such
as scrubbing rust off propanetanks out in the sun and also
(02:38):
pulling dead mice out of toilets.
Those were my jobs.
That was, those were my jobs.
And like very, yeah, disney,and then dead mice out of toys,
I was like what, what have Idone to offend the mice gods of
the world, right, right.
So when an opportunity presenteditself for me to be a director
of rock climbing at this, at thesummer camp for for boy scouts,
(02:59):
I I jumped on it and they saidyou know, do you know how to
rock climb?
I said no and they said, well,okay, we'll train you.
Are you scared of heights?
And I said do you know, do youknow how to rock climb?
I said no and they said, well,okay, we'll train you.
Are you scared of heights?
And I said, absolutely, when doI ship out?
Like I just I knew like I wasmeant for more than pulling dead
mice out of toilets.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Right.
John Malura (03:14):
So that job in 1998 was actually what landed me in
the space program.
Because when I applied to acompany that was a government
contractor that worked on NASAmissions, I had on my resume
that I was director of rockclimbing.
I thought it showedresponsibility.
Like I, I led a staff.
(03:35):
I didn't kill anybody, or evenno one got severely hurt during
my tenure.
During that.
That's important right.
It's generally frowned upon toinjure and or kill right, yes,
yes, yes, yes.
So when that was on my resume, Iwas interviewing to be like a
project manager or something Ididn't know any better, which,
knowing what I know now, I wouldhave been a horrible project
(03:55):
manager, right.
But when that was on my resume,it got the attention of the
lead test engineer for the Marsexploration rover that was
landing in 2003.
Little known to me, this guywas former special forces in
Vietnam and went on to become asurvival instructor in the
military and his team'sresponsibilities were whatever
(04:19):
whiz bang system was created,his team's job was to make sure
it did what it was supposed todo before it needed to do it.
Like, so you do ground testing,do whatever we could to make
sure that before you crashsomething in the Mars like we
don't do that.
So when they saw a direct or sawrock climbing on my resume, he
said here's someone who is smartenough and as as as he would
(04:43):
say, he became a mentor of mine.
His name was Skip.
Skip would say I don't needanother egghead, I need someone
that I can send out into theworld anywhere across the world
and not get himself killed.
He goes I think you're the job,you're the guy for that.
I went okay, cool.
So that is actually how I endedup working in the space program
.
It was through various likecascading, you know,
(05:06):
misdirections and failures.
When you know, of course, youlook back on it now it's like oh
, of course that was the plan,you know, thank you God.
But like, while you're in it,it's like I'm I'm literally
pulling dead, dead rodents outof water right now.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Right.
John Malura (05:20):
Right, how can, how can this get turned around?
So that's how I ended upworking in the space program.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:26):
OK, that's not the normal recruitment path.
No, no, no, but still anincredible story and it actually
experience you know, reallyhelped you to get you to where
you are now.
Because tell, tell our audiencea little bit about your
upbringing and your family lifeand share a little bit about
(05:49):
that.
John Malura (05:57):
Yeah, so I, I was an only child and during during
my upbringing, you know, I wasjust always very curious, you
know, just always just wantingto understand how how things
worked.
And school never came easy forme, even though I was, I was
intelligent, but school justnever came easy for me, Like I
had to work really hard, Latercame out to be diagnosed with
(06:18):
very significant ADHD as anadult, to which I was like those
people are the brightest peoplein the world, john, okay, so
yeah, I have a little bit ofthat too, but anyway, yes, go on
so, but I didn't.
I didn't, I didn't know thatlike, because when I was growing
up in the 80s and early 90s inschool, the, the kids that got
(06:38):
diagnosed with that were likebouncing off the wall.
Well, that that wasn't me, Ijust right.
You know I was off in the cloudsomewhere a lot of times.
Tonya Shellnutt (06:46):
Right.
John Malura (06:47):
So growing up like school was really hard for me.
Athletics, you know, were neverreally my, my thing and you
know, then I transferred schoolsa number of times and ended up
transferring like high schooland just fell in with not a
great crowd and a lot of that,you know, just really was fed by
(07:10):
a very low self-confidencegrowing up.
So, even though, like I wouldhave successes and like even
when I went on to work in thespace program, I just had
massive amounts of self-doubt,like to the point where it was
like very severe anxiety and Ieventually thought, you know, if
(07:30):
I do the next thing, if I, if Iraise my hand for the next
mission, for the next hazardous,potentially hazardous operation
, like maybe then I'll feelenough and spoiler alert, you
don't, you know, you just buildthis house of cards up even
higher.
And so eventually, you know, Iwas just left like in the wind
where I felt like if I make onewrong step like this is all
(07:54):
going to come crashing down onme.
Tonya Shellnutt (07:57):
So, john, I want you to share with our
audience a little bit about.
You know, we talked about theoverthinking and the anxiety,
the perfectionism, and I think alot, of a lot of people
struggle with that.
I know a couple of my kidsstruggle with that.
I used to struggle with thatand it's a very real thing and I
(08:19):
think a lot of people feel like, well, I'm different or this is
.
You know, I can't get throughthis or whatever it might be.
I want you to share with ouraudience a little bit about what
brought you to that breakingpoint, as you were feeling all
of those things.
So you know, there's a personaltragedy that happened.
I want you to share a littlewith them about that, because I
(08:42):
think there's a lot of peopleout there that can identify with
that, those emotions, and don'tknow what to do with it.
So share with us a little bityour journey on how God has kind
of walked you through that,what happened, and then in the
journey, yeah.
John Malura (08:56):
So overthinking perfectionism, procrastination,
like that was just how I, how Ioperated, and a lot of times,
what I would do and, of course,this is like hindsight, by the
way it's like I was completelyoblivious to at the point.
I would have these brave delaysI would you know I've come to
(09:18):
call them where, like part of myjob being in test operations
was we would have to write theplans for how we were going to
test the airbags that weresupposed to land on Mars, like
how are we going to simulatethat?
It's like very detailed stuff.
Some of the projects we'd workwith were, you know, we had
explosives and high energysystems like potentially, you
(09:39):
know, fatal systems if we didn'tdo our thing right, systems if
we didn't do our thing right.
So I would tell myself that, oh, the reason why it's taking me
so long to write this is it hasto be perfect, because someone
could get hurt or killed, rightyeah, which was not untrue,
right but?
And what I would do was becauseI had such low self-confidence
(09:59):
like I people didn't talk aboutimposter syndrome back then, but
that's, that's what I had.
Like, I had that's feeling likeI was a fake and like I
shouldn't be here and I'm notsmart enough to be here.
You know people are going tofind out about me and, and you
know, everything's going to belost and I'm going to be pulling
dead mice out of toilets againfor a job like you know, like,
like, just catastrophizeeverything.
(10:20):
So when it would come time forme to write these test plans or
test reports, after the fact, Iwould take forever.
And again, the story I toldmyself was these have to be
perfect so no one gets hurt or,like you know, the million
million dollar thing doesn't getdestroyed, when really what it
was Tanya was I hid behind thisveil of perfectionismism because
(10:43):
I didn't want to hand it to myteammate, frank, and be like hey
, frank, here's this test reportor test plan.
Look it over, tell me what Imissed, help me see the woods
through the trees, brother, andthen hand it back to me and I'll
fix it.
I didn't do that, me, and I'llfix it.
I didn't do that because Ialready felt like I wasn't
worthy to be there and I didn'twant to give anybody any any
(11:04):
ammunition to prove my fearsRight.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:07):
Yeah, yeah.
John Malura (11:14):
So I would just hide behind this perfectionism
and procrastination, but youknow, had this mentality that it
was a brave delay, I was doingthe right thing.
Tonya Shellnutt (11:18):
Yeah, yeah, I wrote that down.
I'm a brave delay and you know,I can think of a couple of
people that I know that really,really struggle with that
imposter syndrome.
So talk, talk, share with ouraudience about the, the personal
tragedy that was your breakingpoint.
Share with us about that.
John Malura (11:39):
Yeah, so in 2009, I had just become a father and
that I had massive fear forbeing a horrible father.
Like I just had a lot ofstories in my head, a lot of
limiting beliefs, that I wasjust scared to death about being
a bad father.
And then, not long after ourfirst child was born, one of my
(12:04):
best childhood friends took hisown life in an intentional
overdose, and he was someone Ireally looked up to and to make
it.
I don't even know if it made itworse, but it really just
twisted my head.
Even more was that he and I hadbeen estranged for a number of
years because I had a fallingout with his then wife.
(12:25):
So I hadn't spoken to him inyears until I got a call from a
mutual friend on like thisbeautiful day in in May and
saying he was, he was dead andit was like, yeah, I didn't even
know how to process that right,like Like I don't remember the
rest of the day, like I just itwas a blur.
And coupled with the fact thatnow I had been in this career,
(12:48):
this high pressure career, highprofile career, for at this
point over eight years as a newfather, I just found out my
friend had taken his own life.
It just left me in this hazewhere I couldn't, I just
couldn't get out of like this,like just very negative mindset.
And it's very important to notethat up until this time, which
(13:10):
I was about, I was about 30,right before my 32nd birthday,
when all this went down.
You know, like after I turned18 and graduated Catholic high
school, I wanted nothing to dowith religion.
Tonya Shellnutt (13:23):
Yeah.
John Malura (13:23):
Like, not even, like I'm not even gonna say,
it's not even that I wantednothing to do with religion as,
like I was anti-religion.
Like I very much relate withthe apostle Paul.
Yeah, right Before, before theDamascus road experience,
whereas, like if I found outsomeone was religious and it
didn't matter, like you know,judaism, christianity.
Like if I found out someone wasreligious and it didn't matter,
(13:44):
like you know, judaism,christianity, muslim.
Like I would say to people likewhat are you too weak to do
life on your own?
You?
Tonya Shellnutt (13:49):
need the crutch of religion?
John Malura (13:50):
Yeah, because I just had such hurt that I was
exposed to and trauma exposed inhigh school.
I wanted nothing to do with it.
School, I wanted nothing to dowith it.
So, fast forward, like here Iam.
My early thirties have have nofaith.
It was a very anti-faith and Ijust reached this breaking point
(14:11):
where one day before work I wasthinking like I don't know how
to, how to keep going on.
I don't, I don't know.
Maybe, maybe my friend had itright by checking out and I I've
come to realize that at thatmoment it was the Holy spirit
who planted the serenity prayerin my head Like cause.
It just popped in my headseemingly out of nowhere.
Tonya Shellnutt (14:33):
Right.
John Malura (14:34):
Keep in mind I hadn't prayed in 14 years and so
, but I said the serenity prayer.
I remember it said you know,god, you grant me the serenity
prayer I remember.
I said you know, god, grant methe serenity to accept the
things I cannot change, thecourage to change the things
that I can.
And as soon as I said, in thewisdom to know the difference,
this warm sensation came over mehead to toe yeah and like I was
(14:58):
like what the heck was that?
I was like I've either just lostmy mind or maybe there's
something to this God thing.
So, just like with the ApostlePaul, after you know the
Damascus Road experience withthe proverbial scales, like fell
from my eyes, yeah, from myeyes.
(15:20):
Yeah, and the you know it's,it's, it's, it's so true that
you know, before god can do workthrough you, he's got to do
some work in you and boy, did hedo a lot of work in me?
yeah, because the first thingthat happened was after I said
that prayer like it.
I was so broken that I I justno longer had the strength to
(15:45):
resist jesus and the holy spirit.
Tonya Shellnutt (15:48):
You know that was always there after you.
He'll come after you.
John Malura (15:51):
Yes, he will and, uh I, I finally accepted jesus
and the holy spirit and startedlooking at myself and like, here
I was, like I was an eliteperformer, like I was elite, you
know, at work.
I worked with elite units and Iwas also.
You know, I'll keep this PG asI can, but I was an elite a-hole
(16:13):
too, right.
I built this veneer, thisdefense mechanism, up around me
because I had such lowself-esteem, such low confidence
and I and I felt like such afake in this job, despite, you
know, a ridiculous track recordof like astounding successes.
I just felt like the next oneswhere they're going to figure me
(16:34):
out, the next ones where I'mgoing to blow it, right.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:37):
So I want to, I want to unpack that a little
bit.
There's a couple of things Iwant to unpack.
First and foremost, I think, um, you know when?
When we, I lost my mom early onand and that is where God met
me.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Um when.
Tonya Shellnutt (16:50):
I lost my mom.
It was, um, uh, very, verytraumatic and I, I was always
like, well, how, why would aloving God, you know, take my
mom early?
She had so much I mean, she wasonly 47 when she died you know
why would, why would he do that?
And so I really struggled withthat.
But I think it's important toknow that God is always pursuing
(17:13):
us Right, and because he, he,he knows that, he, he wants us
to have a relationship with him.
And so, you know, some peoplewill think, well, I'm just too
far gone, or, like you said, Iwas too big of an a-hole, so
God's never going to use me, orGod's never going to, you know,
whatever it might be.
(17:33):
And you literally had turnedyour back, I mean, you had
hardened your heart, I justdidn't know, I was completely
ignorant.
But but I think it's importantfor people to know that God is
always pursuing you because hewants to have a relationship
with you and he'll find you oneway or the other.
He's going to find you.
(17:54):
So, so it.
It doesn't help to to keeppushing him off.
I think the great thing that Goddid with you, john, that so
many people don't do, is he gotyou to look at yourself
internally, and that's a miraclein and of itself, right,
(18:16):
because that's half the battlein our healing is when we can
look at ourselves and identifywhat we need to be working on.
So, when God got a hold of youand he was, you know, tapping on
your shoulder, what were someof the things that he was asking
you to look at, john?
John Malura (18:34):
About how I would respond to people.
Out of fear, yeah, and it wouldlike.
If I, if I, if anyone would aska question of me, or or, I
would interpret it as like theywere questioning like my work or
my integrity and my capability,like any of the things that,
like these worldly things that Ihad built myself up upon, I
(18:54):
would just, I would, I wouldreact like very, very forcefully
, like I was a verbal assassin,like I would just, I would just
cut their legs out fromunderneath them.
So the first thing god did wasstarted helping me see.
Like you know, would would puta a spirit of conviction on me
afterwards, and I always like tomake sure that I I
(19:19):
differentiate betweencondemnation and conviction.
Yeah, like condemnation is fromthe enemy.
Condemnation and conviction,yeah, like condemnation is from
the enemy.
Condemnation is that voiceinside of you that says you're
too far gone, you'll never dothis, all is hopeless.
That's a lie from the enemy.
Conviction is from the HolySpirit, and that's like saying
like, hey, you done screwed up,buddy.
(19:39):
Right Now, what are we going todo to get you out of it?
Right, how are we going to walkthrough that?
So the first thing God did washelp me see how I was showing up
and like would convict my heartafter these incidents and I
would eventually learn to pausebefore I would just react and,
like you know, act, like theincredible Hulk you know, switch
(20:01):
instantaneously.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:02):
Yeah.
So why do you think so manypeople struggle with the
imposter syndrome?
And and how did they begin?
Cause, again, I can just thinkof a few people off off hand.
How can we?
What tools or advice do yougive them?
And why?
Why do they struggle with it?
Like, like, because, again, thefirst part of it is identifying
(20:23):
that you even struggle with it.
So give us some examples ofthat right.
John Malura (20:28):
so in in a we're.
We're in a society where a lotof times it's, if you take a
credit for things or like thingsyou've done, or like you talk
about things you've done like,there's such a negative
connotation with that, and youknow we're taught to play small,
be humble, like, and there's abig difference between being
(20:50):
humble and being able to acceptyour wins.
Tonya Shellnutt (20:55):
Yeah, that's good.
John Malura (20:56):
It's so important to accept our wins, not because
we get our value from that or weget validated from from those
wins, but when we are able toaccept what we have done.
The important thing is torecognize those and pause for a
moment and celebrate like highperformers, like like we're
(21:19):
notorious for we're just ontothe next thing.
Tonya Shellnutt (21:21):
Like, like we're notorious for we're just
onto the next thing.
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, I'm justsitting here listening to you
going gosh.
I, I, I struggle with that.
I, I struggle when people giveme compliments.
Recently, my husband and I justwent on a trip and we were
forced to relax.
I, I couldn't do it.
It it took me three days tojust shut the brain down and and
(21:45):
be present because I wasthinking about I got to do this
or I got to do that, and I wasjust kept moving from the one
thing to the next.
And so I, I struggle with this.
I don't think I struggle somuch with the imposter part of
it, but I struggle with justbeing able to I can't remember
how you said it, but be in thetake the win, yeah, so how do I
(22:09):
do that, john Cause?
I, I don't even know how to dothat.
How do I take the win?
What does that look like?
John Malura (22:15):
Right, and that's such a that's a fantastic
question, and one of the biggestthings that we can do is switch
from autopilot and be aware.
Yeah, and that's what with what?
With with so much, if we couldswitch from autopilot to being
aware, and just being awaregives us that, that presence of
mind where we can startresponding and we can pause,
(22:38):
like, like, we don't have tothrow a party every time we, we,
we have a win, but it'simportant to let it land,
because if we don't have tothrow a party every time we, we,
we have a win, but it'simportant to let it land,
because if you don't let thosewins land mentally, like, your
nervous system is never going tofeel them either, and then what
happens?
There is, then.
That's why we're alwaysstriving, that's why we're
always stressed, that's whywe're always trying to do the
(22:58):
next thing and why we never feelenough.
Like our body's just like, justphysiologically, like on edge,
so like the wall behind me, likethese are all things that I've
earned throughout.
You know my engineering career,photography career, like
coaching, and it's not there tobe like, hey, check out what I
did.
It's there to remind me of whoI became in the process of that
(23:22):
achievement.
It's not about the me of who Ibecame in the process of that
achievement.
It's not about the achievement.
Tonya Shellnutt (23:26):
It's about who I became Right.
I love that.
That's so good.
Well, we're running out of time, but I want you, because you're
just you're bringing up so manygood things I want you to share
with our audience, for thosepeople that you know struggle in
this area, you know share withthem.
You know what are you workingon now through your coaching and
your speaking.
What are some of the nuggetsthat you can share with our
(23:49):
audience on that front?
John Malura (23:51):
Right so folks can can find you know my my six
checkpoints, you know, for eliteaction on my website,
johnmaloracom.
Slash free stuff.
I kept it easy.
There's the elite action flightplan.
That kept it easy.
There's the lead action flightplan.
That's right there.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a free, downloadable PDFwhere I step you through this,
the six checkpoints that I havefound that help us really
(24:13):
navigate to just really beingable to own our wins, with the
intention of again not beingbraggadocious but building our
confidence, because the more webelieve in ourselves, the more
we can serve others.
Tonya Shellnutt (24:25):
Yes, that's so great.
I love that line right there.
The more that we believe inourselves, the more we can serve
others.
That's great.
Yes, unpack that a little bitmore.
That's so good.
John Malura (24:36):
Sure sure.
Because so often we findourselves doing things for the
wrong reason or we don't keepcommitments to ourselves and our
confidence takes a hit.
And when we talk aboutconfidence, again, there's such
a negative connotation.
It's like, oh, if they'reconfident, I bet they're cocky
or I bet they're a jerk.
It's like no confidence is abelief in your own abilities.
(24:56):
And the way we do that is notby.
You know, giant accolades,giant wins.
The way we build our confidence, tanya, is we keep promises to
ourselves, because how easy isit to remain accountable to
another person?
But when it comes to ourselves,a lot of times we break
integrity with ourselves yeah,yeah, that's so good so.
(25:22):
So the six checkpoints that Ihave are the first is confidence
, because if we start takingkeeping little promises to
ourselves, our brain's going towork on that information and
chew on and be like, oh, that'sright, I show up for myself, I
keep my promises to myself, andthat builds real confidence.
And then we can talk about thelegacy that we're building, and
by legacy I mean, like havingthis vision of like who this
(25:45):
future you is out there and likeI have a framework to help
people understand who that is,like your covenant and
connections, like what's thatlook like?
What are your finances looklike what?
How do you fund the life thatyou want to live to be of
service?
You know, how do we, how do wedevelop ourselves?
How do what's our, what's ourresilience look like?
(26:09):
What's our health look like?
Because in those moments whenwe're faced with a decision we
have them every day, some big,some little we're faced with
these decisions, and how oftendo we say is this what I want to
do right now or not?
And a lot of times it might belike, no, I don't want to do
this right now, I'm tired, I'm,I'm, I'm tapped out.
So we need to ask a betterquestion to honor this future
version of ourself.
And that question is is thisaction or inaction right now
(26:34):
going to keep me stuck where I'mat, or is this going to help me
be a hero to this futureversion of myself?
Yeah, that's a differentquestion than do I want to do
this or don't I?
Tonya Shellnutt (26:46):
Yeah, it's so good.
So I just want to wrap up.
I want our audience to go toyour website.
It's John J O H N Molura.
M O L L U R Acom.
Slash free stuff.
Go get the free stuff.
I've downloaded that.
Obviously, I have some work.
I want to look through that too, and I love the legacy part of
(27:08):
it.
That's a message that I've beenspeaking about.
Losing my mom early on reallycaused me to think about the
time that we have here on earthand the impact that we can make,
which is why I feel so led todo what I'm doing, because I
want to free people, to knowthat they don't have to be in
bondage to all of this stuff,and so John's got some really
(27:31):
great stuff.
He does coaching and speaking,so I want our audience to go
visit his website and, john,thank you so much for being with
us today.
I just really appreciate youand your insight.
Is there any last words ofwisdom that you want to give to
our audience today?
John Malura (27:46):
Yeah, one of the greatest lies of the enemy is
that you're alone and that againthe enemy will try to condemn
you and say you're alone, you'retoo far gone, you're too much
of a screw up, you've hurt toomany people, you're too far gone
.
And I just want've hurt toomany people Like you, like
you're too far gone, and I justwant to encourage them that that
is an absolute lie.
(28:07):
Like I was able to turn my lifearound through the grace of God
and some very hard work on myown.
Like God will partner with you,but you got to put in the work
sometimes, absolutely, yeah.
So, so you are enough and you'renot alone, and don't believe
that lie that you're ever toofar gone.
Tonya Shellnutt (28:24):
Yeah, that's great, and I'll just redirect
our audience to you.
Want to go to my website,wwwtonyashellnutt.
com.
I have a five-day healingcleanse workbook where you can
begin to look at some of thosewounds that you know that you
have.
That can help you begin toidentify well, what do I need to
work on?
Because sometimes you're justso overwhelmed and you don't
(28:44):
know what you need to work on.
So I want to encourage you togo download that, send us any
questions that you have on ourwebsite and always, please leave
us a five-star review, becausewe can get hope out faster.
We'll see you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thanks, Thank you for joining us here on Courageous
Overcomers with Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tonya
(29:20):
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
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