June 25, 2025 • 39 mins
For over 30 years, she carried a silent weight—two decisions made in fear, buried deep beneath layers of shame and what-ifs. She never married. Never had children of her own. And for decades, she believed that disqualified her from joy, from purpose, from grace.
But then… Jesus.
In today’s episode of Courageous Overcomers, you’ll meet a woman whose story reminds us that even the heaviest chains can be broken. Though her past was marked by abortion, grief, and isolation, her present is overflowing with love—she's become a spiritual mother to many, including my own children.
Yet even now, questions linger: Who will take care of me when I’m old? Did I forfeit the very things my heart still longs for?
This conversation is raw, honest, and full of the kind of hope only redemption can bring. Because the truth is: God doesn’t waste a single part of our story—not even the parts we’d rather hide.
Let’s step into the light, together.
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Link to 5 day workbook https://www.tonyashellnutt.com/2025-healing-cleanse
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya Shellnutt (00:07):
Well, welcome to Courageous Overcomers Stories
of Hope and Healing.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt,just want to welcome everybody
back.
Last week we talked abouthidden pain, because we know
some wounds never get talkedabout and abortion is one of
them, not because it didn't hurt, but because shame told us to
(00:27):
stay silent.
And we had a special guest on acouple of weeks ago, and then I
shared last week and we haveanother special guest coming up
with us this week on CourageousOvercomers.
She is my best friend.
I've known her for a very longtime I don't know 20 years, I
(00:48):
think.
Chris, we're going on and sowe're going to.
I'm going to try not to get tooemotional on this episode, but
I can't guarantee that that'sgoing to happen, because I'm
already feeling it.
But I just want to thank youfor your courage and your
bravery, for coming on to thisepisode and sharing with our
(01:08):
listeners.
Chris, I know that this is avery difficult conversation, but
we all know that it's one thatneeds to be shared, because our
culture tells women a lot oflies about abortion, and so I
just want us to start with yousharing a little bit about your
upbringing and the religiousbackground that you have, before
(01:34):
we dive into your story on thisso I was born and raised in New
York and I was born into afamily that were Catholics.
Chris Kelly (01:45):
Now, I don't want to say that we were Catholics in
the best sense.
We were Catholics in what Iunderstood at the time, which
was you went through all of thesacraments up through your
confirmation and basically atthat point my mom was the one
that said you know, once you getpast your confirmation, it's no
(02:09):
longer on me, it's no longer onyou.
You get to decide what youreally want to do, but you have
to go through all thesesacraments.
So I realized that a lot ofCatholics would probably find
that offensive, because theydon't necessarily see things
that way, but that was the waythat I was raised.
And at 14, when I made myconfirmation, I basically at
(02:30):
that point turned my back on Godand religion and everything
else and walked away.
You know, in the best of senses, I probably would have
considered myself an atheist oran agnostic, because I just
wanted nothing to do withreligion, God or anything else.
You know, I was on my own, soto speak.
(02:51):
Right.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:53):
And then you had a situation just share a
little bit briefly about losingyour mom to cancer and you know
how that impacted you mom tocancer and you know how that
impacted you.
Chris Kelly (03:04):
That was a huge impact.
In a lot of ways it sort ofkind of freed me, on one hand
because I felt, like you know,my mom was always very strong
and a very strong person in mylife.
She had really been an umbrellaand over the years um been an
(03:28):
umbrella and over the years wewere extremely close.
I mean, when my parents soldtheir house in New York and
moved to North Carolina, I wouldcall my mom every day and she
eventually was like look, I'mlimiting you to once a week
because you know I can't talk toyou every day about nothing.
Essentially Right, but we hadthat kind of a bond and I took a
job with the government andmoved to Billings, montana, from
(03:51):
New York and in that first yearthat I was gone she was
diagnosed with lung cancer inJanuary of 2002.
And she passed away on May 1stof 2002.
And she passed away on May 1 of2002.
So it was pretty life alteringin a lot of ways.
(04:13):
And why don't you say that wassorry, go ahead, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say I knew whenI took that job in Montana she
and I had talked about it and atthat time I knew God was moving
me there for a reason right,there was a purpose behind it
and even though I didn'trecognize God per se, as most
(04:34):
people would these days you know, or people that I know from my
born again Christian life therewas a sense of overwhelming
calmness, peace and relief as Iwas driving to check out
Billings, montana, for the firsttime, getting the job offer
that I had.
(04:55):
And my mother calls me at thatmoment while I'm on I-90,
heading east towards Billings,and she tells me at that point
that it's it's the happiest thatshe's ever heard me and I said
to her mom it's just the mostbeautiful place I've ever seen
and I know that this is where Ineed to be.
(05:15):
And at that point it wasthrough her support that the
rest of my family, my sistersand my dad, accepted my choice
to move across the country, notknowing anybody and starting a
life in which you know it wasgoing to be very far from
everybody and everything that Iknew.
But that is where the Lord gotyou and got a hold of you.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:41):
And that's where your faith journey really
began.
But before we go to thatbecause we're going to come back
to that, because that's a hugepart of all of this I want you
to go back a few years and sharewith our listeners about your
behavior.
You had some reckless behaviorand you had your first abortion.
(06:07):
I want you to share a littlebit about what was happening in
your life at that time and whatled you to believe that the
abortion was the thing that youneeded to do, because we talked
about a little bit last week andI want to talk a little bit
about this week, but about thelies women believe about
abortion and I think you know,too often people don't realize
(06:35):
the lies that are being sharedto women and my whole goal in
having you on this podcast andfolks like Catherine is to bring
truth and light to what reallyhappens and what really goes on
when a woman follows throughwith an abortion.
So share with us a little bitabout what was going on in your
life that led up to that firstone.
Chris Kelly (06:57):
So I was dating a at the time and we had been
dating for several years but healso was an alcoholic and as a
result of that I had what I feltlike was a lot of instability
in my life.
You know, I mean he had cheatedon me early on in our
(07:19):
relationship.
He cheated on me a second time.
In both cases I forgave him,but ultimately I think that
those things led me into theposition that I was in, which
was when that moment happened,that I became pregnant and I was
(07:41):
older.
I mean I was in my and I wasolder, I mean I was in my mid to
late twenties.
At the time, you know you'retalking about the 1992, 1993
timeframe and the relationshipand the instability of the
relationship and just mythoughts of how would I ever
manage, you know, taking care ofa child on my own.
(08:03):
You know, taking care of achild on my own.
Those things were veryoverwhelming and also knowing
that he was not a stable part ofmy life either, right that
through his alcoholism.
I think in some ways I did havesome fears that you know how
would I protect myself and thechild, fears that you know how
(08:28):
would I protect myself and thechild, because he did become
what I would describe as notphysically abusive, but he was
certainly mentally abusive.
So when I found out that I waspregnant, in my mind there was
no choice, right, I just lookedat it.
As you know, this is really.
You know, we're early on in ourpregnancy, so to speak.
(08:50):
You know, this is just a blob.
There's nothing to it.
There's no heartbeat, there'sno arms, legs, facial features,
none of that.
That was truly what I believed,because that was what I had
always been told, you know,growing up.
When you hear, you know womentalking about abortions and how,
you know, babies are not reallybabies yet you know they don't
(09:15):
look like a baby, they don'tlook like a person, I believed
all those lies and through that,you know, it made it much
easier for me to make thatchoice.
Also, the fact that I was not,you know, anywhere in God's
realm at that moment, you know,I was really in the world's
realm.
So it was an easy choice, andespecially when I added on the
(09:39):
abusive part of it, theinsecurity part of it, and also,
I think there was a selfishnessabout it too, a selfishness
that I didn't recognize untilmany years later that you know
it was my own selfish choicethat I decided to go that route,
because I didn't want to havethat burden as well, you know,
(09:59):
because the burden was not justgoing to be a baby, the burden
was going to having.
The burden was not just goingto be a baby, the burden was
going to having having tocontend with this person for the
rest of my life.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:11):
And that part scared me, so so.
So then that happened.
And then obviously you're notwalking with the Lord, so did
you continue, you know, datingthat guy.
What happened next?
And then you know, let's segueinto the to the second abortion,
(10:31):
because it's good, our audienceshould know that you had two.
Chris Kelly (10:35):
And so let's talk about what set you up for that
next one so it was veryinteresting because after my
initial, after the initialabortion, right, there was a
definite fissure that occurredbetween me and this gentleman,
and one of the things thathappened was I was I was never
(11:00):
really a very emotional person,shall we say right, I didn't
necessarily cry, I didn'tnecessarily, you know, feel
sadness or anything, but afterthat abortion my life was
topsy-turvy and my emotionalstate was topsy-turvy.
I started crying for noapparent reason.
I didn't understand what wasreally happening because I knew
(11:22):
it wasn't like me and I waskeeping that a secret.
He and I were keeping that asecret.
So, after the abortion, we hadgone into upstate, new York that
was where his family had comefrom and we had a place up there
and the intent was to spend theweekend up there.
And while we were up there, um,he ended up getting, um, he was
(11:50):
more removed from the situationand mean about everything, and
that started me to start to cryand, you know, navigate this
situation.
So, as a result of that, um, himpushing me away, me moving away
, I became involved with afriend of ours right, it was
(12:14):
another man.
Um, he was a protector.
That was kind of the way thathe, um, mimicked his world and
he had a thing of, you know,protecting women from abusive
relationships kind of thing.
That was his MO.
So at the time I was stilldating one, I began to get
(12:36):
involved with the other and atthe time of the first abortion I
swore I would never haveanother because I knew how
devastating it was just for mefrom a physical, emotional
standpoint.
It had nothing to do with Godat that time and I ended up
breaking up with the one guy,having had sexual relationships
(13:01):
with him, you know, short, shorttime, like within a few days,
and then having sex with the newguy less than a week later and,
um, his, the first guy'sabusiveness started to escalate.
(13:22):
He was stalking me.
He would stay in the area, he'dsleep in his car trying to
catch me with this other guy.
He'd sit outside this otherguy's house.
So we had gone to see one of mysisters who lived out of state
and it just so happened that hissister also lived out of state
(13:43):
in the same place.
So when we were there we weretalking about how you know how
wonderful things were between us, how much we loved each other.
You know all of this stuff andI was very tired.
I couldn't figure out why I wasso exhausted.
And when we got back to NewYork we were out one night and
(14:10):
he said to me have you had yourperiod?
And I'm like no, I'm due, youknow, and he's thinking,
obviously in his head, cause hehe's figuring it out faster than
I am, obviously in his head,because he's figuring it out
faster than I am.
And I went and I took thesecond pregnancy test in my life
(14:30):
and discovered that I was trulypregnant one more time Now.
The first time that I did it,there seemed to be, you know, I
didn't think twice about it.
You know I didn't think twiceabout it.
The second time it was a littlemore complicated because I
truly did not want to go throughwith an abortion.
(14:50):
But my situation was such thatagain, here I am in this mixed
up relationship.
I've got two guys that I'minvolved with, one who's
stalking me, one who's sayinghe'll protect me, with one who's
stalking me, one who's sayinghe'll protect me.
And I go to see the sameabortion doctor that I had seen
(15:11):
the first time and they lookedat you know, they went and they
tested me, they did anultrasound to see how far along
I was and they told me that, youknow, far along I was.
And they told me that, you know, I wasn't as far along as I had
been the first time, but thatthey could still perform the
(15:34):
abortion.
And when I came out because Iwas with the same guy and he
looked at me and he said maybeyou should consider this.
And I lost it at that pointbecause at that point I had gone
into it with, with a belief ofI would not do this again.
And now I'm being told.
Maybe I should consider it,because the one thing that was
clear was there was no way totell whose child it was.
(15:58):
Was it the first guy who I hadslept with a few days before I
slept with the second guy, firstguy who I'd slept with a few
days before I slept with thesecond guy?
And you know, I think that partof it has to do with.
You know I remember with thefirst abortion and then doing
the ultrasound and determiningthat, you know I was far enough
(16:18):
along that they could perform anabortion, but not ever letting
me see that ultrasound.
I remember wanting to see theultrasound because in my brain,
I'm like they wouldn't let yousee it.
No, they would not show that tome at all.
I mean, and in my head I'mgoing well, it's a blob, right,
it's like an amoeba, it itdoesn't.
It doesn't have a face, itdoesn't have a heartbeat, right,
(16:40):
and I'm sure at that pointbecause I was far enough along
that I probably did have thosethings there they would not let
me see that.
So, with the second time, whenthey told me, you know, you're,
you're not as far along as youwere the first time, and this
all occurred within nine monthsof each other, right?
So the first abortion happenedin November timeframe ish.
(17:05):
And then the second abortionhappened in July, august
timeframe ish.
So you know, I mean, I at thatpoint felt like, you know, this
is just an unbelievablesituation.
You have placed yourself injust an unbelievable situation
(17:26):
you have placed yourself in and,as a result of that, it really
kind of turned me around,because once he gave me the okay
to do it, you know, I did itbecause, of course, my situation
was, in such a way, even worsethan it was the first time.
You know, I had instabilitywith a guy that I was dating
seriously, who was an alcoholic,and I felt like neither one of
(17:47):
us could raise a child or havethe means to do so.
And then, the second timearound, now I'm in a situation
with two different guys.
One of them is stalking me, andyou know I'm in fear, and in
both cases I would say that fearwas a driver of both.
Tonya Shellnutt (18:04):
Right.
So so we're going to back up alittle bit on this.
Well, actually, we're going togo forward and then back up.
So, um, so you had theabortions.
Um, we, you know, go a fewyears.
You're on your way to Montana.
God's going to do this.
You know incredible work on youIn the meantime.
(18:28):
You know walk with the audiencea little bit about.
You know how does that processbegin and and what?
How did the Lord begin to workon your heart on this issue, and
what were some of the you knowlies that you were, you know,
wrestling with in your mind thatthat God really had to begin to
(18:50):
work through.
Chris Kelly (18:52):
So, um, I would say that the abortion part of it
was something that I did talkabout.
Right, I had talked to my onesister about it.
Um, had talked to my one sisterabout it, I talked to my
youngest sister about it.
I eventually talked to my momabout it when my sister became
pregnant with my, with our firstnephew-niece situation.
(19:17):
I was a pretty big emotionalwreck at that point because it
would have been around the sametime that I would have given
birth as well.
So, you know, my mom was veryhard to say, but I would
describe it as almost dismissive, like I needed to get over this
because I had made thosechoices.
Those choices were mine tocarry and my burden to bear and
(19:42):
I needed to be happy for mysister, you know who was now
going to be giving birth, and Idon't think that I really
thought about it much, didn'treally consider it.
And then, when God started towork in my life, it was about a
year before I moved and I wastired of living in an area where
(20:05):
I felt like, you know, thingsjust were miserable all the time
.
You know the circumstances ofyour existence, all you're doing
is working all the time.
You're like a drone.
There was not a lot of you know, understanding about anything.
So I went back to going to theCatholic church, right, I
(20:26):
started going because it was allI knew, right.
And eventually, you know, whenI ended up in Montana, right, I
found a job.
It was something that wasgeared exactly towards me.
There was no way that I shouldhave gotten that job.
You know there werecircumstances that all fell into
(20:47):
that category.
Work was a priority for mebecause now that I had kind of
put to bed the you know, gettingmarried, having kids and not
happy with what I was seeing,you know, as far as the people
that I would meet, you know asfar as the people that I would
meet, when I ended up out inMontana, the first year that I
(21:08):
was there, I was starting to goto churches trying to see.
You know, I went to Catholicchurches, I tried other churches
, you know all things that theLord was kind of pushing me
towards.
And then my mom got sick and Ispent two months, roughly about
two months, in New York duringher treatments and things, until
(21:31):
she passed away.
So when I came back to Montana Iwas back in Montana, you know,
still kind of stumbling along,and you know the Lord of
stumbling along, and you knowthe Lord.
The Lord would bring peopleinto my life and I would kind of
be that person that would belike nope, hold up my hand, say
(21:52):
sorry, not interested.
You can talk about God, you cantalk about all these things,
and nope, nope, nope.
I don't want to hear what youhave to say.
And the reality is that theLord brought me the one person
that I would listen to, whichwas a man, and he was very
unconventional.
He drank, he smoked cigars, herode motorcycles, so it was all
(22:19):
the things that I foundattractive, and the Lord knew
that I would listen to thisperson.
And when this person came intomy life, the Lord sent his
messenger because he was a bornagain Christian.
And when he started talking, Imean, we had some really hard
(22:41):
conversations.
We talked about, you know, mymother's death, where she could
possibly be, whether she's inheaven or hell.
That was a struggle.
And then one day, while we weregetting ready to go out for
lunch, we were in the car andyou know, he was talking to me.
He had been showing me the Bible, he had been sharing the Bible
(23:03):
with me and the topic of myabortions came up and I remember
looking at him and thinking,well, but they're just blobs,
right, because I'm still livingin that same place of, they're
(23:24):
not babies, it's not, it's nottruly a human being.
And he kind of he kindly right,looked at me and said, well,
that's not really true.
And I immediately felt anoverwhelming shame for what I
(23:49):
had done and also the fact thathere he was trying to guide me
right, without being blatant andcalling me basically a murderer
, which is exactly what you arewhen you do those things.
And you know, I I remembergetting angry, I remember
(24:12):
yelling, I was crying, you know,and I was like, but you know,
trying to justify, you know, myown existence as to what I had
done.
And yeah, it was an interestingthing, to say the least,
because that was early on.
(24:32):
And you know, in October ofthat year I met him literally
right after my mom's you knowmemorial service in May.
So by August, september, we werespending a lot of time together
, um, and he took me to churchfor the first time, to a church
(24:54):
where, all of a sudden,everything made sense, right, he
sat me down in the front of thesanctuary and, as the pastor
was giving his sermon, you knowI'm listening to this sermon.
He's reading out of the Bibleand I'm like, oh, now I'm
(25:18):
getting it right, and it wasthat, that trigger, that started
me down the path.
So by January of that year, Igave my life to Christ and, you
know, have had this walk where,you know, I had shame when I did
(25:40):
those things.
I certainly, um, feel as thoughI didn't really address it, I
just buried it, but I would talkabout it Once I became a born
again Christian.
That kind of changed.
Right, because there's stillshame that comes with it, even
(26:01):
though I know that I'm forgivenby God.
Though I know that I'm forgivenby God, but at the same time,
it's very hard to talk about.
You know, because when youbring up these topics, you know,
most of the time when peoplehear that, they're just stunned,
(26:22):
right, because they look at theperson that I am today and they
don't see that person that Iwas 30, 40 years ago.
Tonya Shellnutt (26:26):
Right, that's the, that is the wonderful thing
about God and his redemptivepower, right Is that he changes
lives.
So I want to talk a little bitabout about that, because a
couple of things so you know we,the the lies that you believed
and and how you worked throughthat, and the importance of you
(26:50):
know.
Well, you thought they were, youknow, just a blob.
You didn't really think thatthey were alive, that it was
real life.
You know the shame that goeswith it and you know how,
because so many women we talkabout the hidden pain, right,
whether it's abortion or sexualabuse or addictions, whatever
(27:11):
they hide it because they'reafraid that people will judge
them or, you know, befriend themor whatever it is.
And so you know, talk a littlebit about how you and and I know
that you know working throughthe shame and the guilt it's.
(27:31):
It's still even to this day,cause you're my best friend and
I know this and I struggle withit.
We still struggle with it.
And so how do you, you know,what is some advice that you can
give a post-abortive womanwho's still struggling with this
and what can she do about it tohelp her on this journey?
Chris Kelly (27:55):
So I would say that you know, it's kind of like
we've talked about in the past,right?
I mean, I have stayed single,I've never been married, I have
never had any children of my own, and do I believe that those
abortions are the reasons whythose things are the way they
are?
I do believe that.
(28:15):
You know, I do believe that myjourney that the Lord has given
me to take in this manner, itwas kind of a combination of two
things.
There was the selfishness,right, where I was very career
focused, especially after mymother passed away, um, because
it was kind of that connectionthat I had with my mom that once
(28:36):
that was gone, I no longer feltlike I needed to be married or
I needed to have children.
But I have lots of friends thatdo have kids and I have found
that that has been a redeemerfor me is working or spending
time with those kids, becausethey're not my children, right.
(28:59):
But I am kind of like surrogatemom in some ways, right, where I
have kids that will come to meand they will confide in me or
they will talk to me or theywill tell me things that they
don't tell their parents, andthere is a connection that
happens, which I can't explain.
It's not something that I wouldnecessarily say is part of my
(29:23):
forte or part of my personality,that I can, you know, bring
children in or bring people inwhere they find that they can
confide in me with certainthings, um, but certainly it's
something that I think hasfilled the gap, you know, where
I don't have kids of my own, butit is something that I, um, I
(29:48):
definitely feel a connection tois, you know, spending time with
those kids, and I will say mychildren have been the
beneficiaries of that and we'revery, very, very, very, very
blessed by you and the time andthe I'm going to cry.
Tonya Shellnutt (30:11):
If you cry, then I'm going to cry, I know, I
know.
But you know we're just realand raw on this show.
But my family, my children andmany, many kids have been very
blessed by you, chris, and I'mvery thankful for that.
I'm very thankful for Godgetting a hold of you and
(30:33):
instead of, you know, turningthe shame and the guilt inwardly
to anger and bitterness, youhave such a giving spirit and a
giving heart to so many.
And so it goes to the, you know, courageous overcomers part,
using our pain for good and um.
But one thing I do want you toto talk to our listeners about
(30:56):
is about what do you do with theshame and the guilt, like, how
do you work through that?
Because that is the number onething that women struggle with,
um on this issue.
Chris Kelly (31:11):
There's no other way around it.
I mean, you have to give it upto God, you know, I mean, I have
many sins in my past and, um,that is, one of the things that
I have learned is that, throughGod's grace, that is the only
way that it helps you to, uh,navigate those feelings and
(31:35):
emotions.
You know, um, because it'sstill a learning process for me,
right, it's still a.
I don't know if learning is theright way, but it's still a
healing process for me, right.
All these years later you knowyou're talking it's over 30
years ago that these thingshappened, and there's still
(31:56):
times when I can catch myselfand be like you know, you know,
I feel that pain, right, of nothaving a child, or what it would
have been like to have a kid.
You know, I can remember veryvividly, a couple of years ago,
I was really struggling with thefact that I am single, you know
(32:18):
, and I am in many ways alone,right.
So, where I see my friends withtheir kids nowadays, where
they're older, they're allgetting married, they're all
getting on with their lives,they're all getting their own
lives.
You know, I think about myselfin my old age and I say, who's
going to be here for me, right,because it's not.
(32:40):
You know, like I mean, I listento some of my friends who are
like you know, my daughter or myson, you know they'll take care
of me in my old age, and Ithink to myself, yeah, there's
nobody for you, right, god'shere.
That's the thing that keeps megoing.
I know you do, but I mean it is.
(33:10):
It is in some ways, anoverwhelming feeling, right,
when you realize that, you know,you really don't have that kind
of a connection.
There isn't a husband, therearen't kids, right, and as much
as I love my dogs, you knowthey're, they're not going to be
able to, you know, help me getup the stairs or whatever, right
, so it's, it's very groundingin some ways, right, Because it
(33:38):
does require you to put yourfaith and trust into the Lord
and that he is going to see thisthrough, you know no matter
what it is.
Tonya Shellnutt (33:48):
And I think you make the point of that's very
important.
It's about being intentional,right?
You know?
The other thing that you do,that you do very well also, is
you get involved.
You get involved in your church.
You're involved in a women'sBible study.
You know, and I think that'simportant because, again, it's
(34:08):
very easy to fall into the shameand the anger and the
bitterness, but there's a levelof intentionality that has to
play out here.
And you know, as we begin towrap up the podcast, I want you
to just give our audience, ourlisteners, you know, just what
(34:31):
is the one piece of advice thathas helped you on this journey.
And we're going to come back,I'm going to have you back on
another episode to talk about alittle bit more in depth, about
the not having children, becauseI think that's an important
conversation in and of itself.
(34:52):
But what is one piece of advicethat you would give the
listeners today that arelistening to this who have maybe
never shared about theirabortion or are, you know, still
living in tremendous shame andguilt?
Chris Kelly (35:09):
abortion or are, you know, still living in
tremendous shame and guilt?
Um, I would say I was.
You know, we talked about how Iwasn't going to do any kind of
research before him, but I waslooking at, um my Bible this
morning and I was readingthrough some things about
courage and one of the thingsthat I came across was second
Corinthians three, 12, thereforehaving such a hope.
(35:32):
We use great boldness in ourspeech and I think that the way
to overcome that shame is totalk about these experiences and
what it does to people.
Right, Because the lie that isportrayed by the world is that
(35:56):
it's meaningless, it doesn'tmean anything, that there is no
impact to what happens when ababy is aborted and there are
lots of impacts that happen.
And even if you're not abeliever and you think that that
is not something that wouldhappen to you, it does happen.
(36:17):
Right, Because there is.
You know, it is a horrific,horrific experience to go
through and you need to havecourage, Courage to speak about
it and rely on the Lord.
You know he'll direct you andhe will take care of you.
Tonya Shellnutt (36:39):
Yeah, bring to light the darkness right All
through.
Scripture talks about shininglight on the darkness so that it
can free you.
And so that just brings me to aresource that I have created,
not just on the abortion frontbut on any wound that you're
carrying, and it's the five dayhealing cleanse workbook, and
(37:03):
you can take any issue thatyou're going through with this.
I went through it last week alittle bit about how it can help
you in regards to your abortionjourney, but I want you to go
to my website,wwwtanyashellnutcom, and
download the workbook.
There's a tab on there orthere's a button that you can
(37:23):
just click and we will get it toyou.
I want you to be courageous andshare this episode with a friend
that might need to hear it.
And then also, I know thatChris and Catherine have both
are more than happy to visitwith any of the listeners who
are struggling with this andjust have questions on how to
(37:45):
you know, seek help or what itis.
So just email me and I'll getyou in touch with them, and then
, as always, leave a five-starreview, because when you do, we
can help get hope out faster.
And, chris, I just I love youso much.
I'm so thankful for you, forbeing courageous and brave to do
this and to share with ouraudience, and I can't wait to
(38:06):
have you back.
If I just I can't my myaudience has no idea just what a
I'm going to cry again, butwhat a blessing you are to all
of us in so many ways and just Ilove you so much and I hope
that the audience will sharethis and bring hope to others.
(38:27):
So until next week, I'll seeyou all then.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Thank you for joining us here on Courageous
Overcomers with Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tanya
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
(38:55):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
Well, welcome to Courageous Overcomers Stories
of Hope and Healing.
I'm your host, tonya Shellnutt,just want to welcome everybody
back.
Last week we talked abouthidden pain, because we know
some wounds never get talkedabout and abortion is one of
them, not because it didn't hurt, but because shame told us to
(00:27):
stay silent.
And we had a special guest on acouple of weeks ago, and then I
shared last week and we haveanother special guest coming up
with us this week on CourageousOvercomers.
She is my best friend.
I've known her for a very longtime I don't know 20 years, I
(00:48):
think.
Chris, we're going on and sowe're going to.
I'm going to try not to get tooemotional on this episode, but
I can't guarantee that that'sgoing to happen, because I'm
already feeling it.
But I just want to thank youfor your courage and your
bravery, for coming on to thisepisode and sharing with our
(01:08):
listeners.
Chris, I know that this is avery difficult conversation, but
we all know that it's one thatneeds to be shared, because our
culture tells women a lot oflies about abortion, and so I
just want us to start with yousharing a little bit about your
upbringing and the religiousbackground that you have, before
(01:34):
we dive into your story on thisso I was born and raised in New
York and I was born into afamily that were Catholics.
Chris Kelly (01:45):
Now, I don't want to say that we were Catholics in
the best sense.
We were Catholics in what Iunderstood at the time, which
was you went through all of thesacraments up through your
confirmation and basically atthat point my mom was the one
that said you know, once you getpast your confirmation, it's no
(02:09):
longer on me, it's no longer onyou.
You get to decide what youreally want to do, but you have
to go through all thesesacraments.
So I realized that a lot ofCatholics would probably find
that offensive, because theydon't necessarily see things
that way, but that was the waythat I was raised.
And at 14, when I made myconfirmation, I basically at
(02:30):
that point turned my back on Godand religion and everything
else and walked away.
You know, in the best of senses, I probably would have
considered myself an atheist oran agnostic, because I just
wanted nothing to do withreligion, God or anything else.
You know, I was on my own, soto speak.
(02:51):
Right.
Tonya Shellnutt (02:53):
And then you had a situation just share a
little bit briefly about losingyour mom to cancer and you know
how that impacted you mom tocancer and you know how that
impacted you.
Chris Kelly (03:04):
That was a huge impact.
In a lot of ways it sort ofkind of freed me, on one hand
because I felt, like you know,my mom was always very strong
and a very strong person in mylife.
She had really been an umbrellaand over the years um been an
(03:28):
umbrella and over the years wewere extremely close.
I mean, when my parents soldtheir house in New York and
moved to North Carolina, I wouldcall my mom every day and she
eventually was like look, I'mlimiting you to once a week
because you know I can't talk toyou every day about nothing.
Essentially Right, but we hadthat kind of a bond and I took a
job with the government andmoved to Billings, montana, from
(03:51):
New York and in that first yearthat I was gone she was
diagnosed with lung cancer inJanuary of 2002.
And she passed away on May 1stof 2002.
And she passed away on May 1 of2002.
So it was pretty life alteringin a lot of ways.
(04:13):
And why don't you say that wassorry, go ahead, go ahead.
No, I was gonna say I knew whenI took that job in Montana she
and I had talked about it and atthat time I knew God was moving
me there for a reason right,there was a purpose behind it
and even though I didn'trecognize God per se, as most
(04:34):
people would these days you know, or people that I know from my
born again Christian life therewas a sense of overwhelming
calmness, peace and relief as Iwas driving to check out
Billings, montana, for the firsttime, getting the job offer
that I had.
(04:55):
And my mother calls me at thatmoment while I'm on I-90,
heading east towards Billings,and she tells me at that point
that it's it's the happiest thatshe's ever heard me and I said
to her mom it's just the mostbeautiful place I've ever seen
and I know that this is where Ineed to be.
(05:15):
And at that point it wasthrough her support that the
rest of my family, my sistersand my dad, accepted my choice
to move across the country, notknowing anybody and starting a
life in which you know it wasgoing to be very far from
everybody and everything that Iknew.
But that is where the Lord gotyou and got a hold of you.
Tonya Shellnutt (05:41):
And that's where your faith journey really
began.
But before we go to thatbecause we're going to come back
to that, because that's a hugepart of all of this I want you
to go back a few years and sharewith our listeners about your
behavior.
You had some reckless behaviorand you had your first abortion.
(06:07):
I want you to share a littlebit about what was happening in
your life at that time and whatled you to believe that the
abortion was the thing that youneeded to do, because we talked
about a little bit last week andI want to talk a little bit
about this week, but about thelies women believe about
abortion and I think you know,too often people don't realize
(06:35):
the lies that are being sharedto women and my whole goal in
having you on this podcast andfolks like Catherine is to bring
truth and light to what reallyhappens and what really goes on
when a woman follows throughwith an abortion.
So share with us a little bitabout what was going on in your
life that led up to that firstone.
Chris Kelly (06:57):
So I was dating a at the time and we had been
dating for several years but healso was an alcoholic and as a
result of that I had what I feltlike was a lot of instability
in my life.
You know, I mean he had cheatedon me early on in our
(07:19):
relationship.
He cheated on me a second time.
In both cases I forgave him,but ultimately I think that
those things led me into theposition that I was in, which
was when that moment happened,that I became pregnant and I was
(07:41):
older.
I mean I was in my and I wasolder, I mean I was in my mid to
late twenties.
At the time, you know you'retalking about the 1992, 1993
timeframe and the relationshipand the instability of the
relationship and just mythoughts of how would I ever
manage, you know, taking care ofa child on my own.
(08:03):
You know, taking care of achild on my own.
Those things were veryoverwhelming and also knowing
that he was not a stable part ofmy life either, right that
through his alcoholism.
I think in some ways I did havesome fears that you know how
would I protect myself and thechild, fears that you know how
(08:28):
would I protect myself and thechild, because he did become
what I would describe as notphysically abusive, but he was
certainly mentally abusive.
So when I found out that I waspregnant, in my mind there was
no choice, right, I just lookedat it.
As you know, this is really.
You know, we're early on in ourpregnancy, so to speak.
(08:50):
You know, this is just a blob.
There's nothing to it.
There's no heartbeat, there'sno arms, legs, facial features,
none of that.
That was truly what I believed,because that was what I had
always been told, you know,growing up.
When you hear, you know womentalking about abortions and how,
you know, babies are not reallybabies yet you know they don't
(09:15):
look like a baby, they don'tlook like a person, I believed
all those lies and through that,you know, it made it much
easier for me to make thatchoice.
Also, the fact that I was not,you know, anywhere in God's
realm at that moment, you know,I was really in the world's
realm.
So it was an easy choice, andespecially when I added on the
(09:39):
abusive part of it, theinsecurity part of it, and also,
I think there was a selfishnessabout it too, a selfishness
that I didn't recognize untilmany years later that you know
it was my own selfish choicethat I decided to go that route,
because I didn't want to havethat burden as well, you know,
(09:59):
because the burden was not justgoing to be a baby, the burden
was going to having.
The burden was not just goingto be a baby, the burden was
going to having having tocontend with this person for the
rest of my life.
Tonya Shellnutt (10:11):
And that part scared me, so so.
So then that happened.
And then obviously you're notwalking with the Lord, so did
you continue, you know, datingthat guy.
What happened next?
And then you know, let's segueinto the to the second abortion,
(10:31):
because it's good, our audienceshould know that you had two.
Chris Kelly (10:35):
And so let's talk about what set you up for that
next one so it was veryinteresting because after my
initial, after the initialabortion, right, there was a
definite fissure that occurredbetween me and this gentleman,
and one of the things thathappened was I was I was never
(11:00):
really a very emotional person,shall we say right, I didn't
necessarily cry, I didn'tnecessarily, you know, feel
sadness or anything, but afterthat abortion my life was
topsy-turvy and my emotionalstate was topsy-turvy.
I started crying for noapparent reason.
I didn't understand what wasreally happening because I knew
(11:22):
it wasn't like me and I waskeeping that a secret.
He and I were keeping that asecret.
So, after the abortion, we hadgone into upstate, new York that
was where his family had comefrom and we had a place up there
and the intent was to spend theweekend up there.
And while we were up there, um,he ended up getting, um, he was
(11:50):
more removed from the situationand mean about everything, and
that started me to start to cryand, you know, navigate this
situation.
So, as a result of that, um, himpushing me away, me moving away
, I became involved with afriend of ours right, it was
(12:14):
another man.
Um, he was a protector.
That was kind of the way thathe, um, mimicked his world and
he had a thing of, you know,protecting women from abusive
relationships kind of thing.
That was his MO.
So at the time I was stilldating one, I began to get
(12:36):
involved with the other and atthe time of the first abortion I
swore I would never haveanother because I knew how
devastating it was just for mefrom a physical, emotional
standpoint.
It had nothing to do with Godat that time and I ended up
breaking up with the one guy,having had sexual relationships
(13:01):
with him, you know, short, shorttime, like within a few days,
and then having sex with the newguy less than a week later and,
um, his, the first guy'sabusiveness started to escalate.
(13:22):
He was stalking me.
He would stay in the area, he'dsleep in his car trying to
catch me with this other guy.
He'd sit outside this otherguy's house.
So we had gone to see one of mysisters who lived out of state
and it just so happened that hissister also lived out of state
(13:43):
in the same place.
So when we were there we weretalking about how you know how
wonderful things were between us, how much we loved each other.
You know all of this stuff andI was very tired.
I couldn't figure out why I wasso exhausted.
And when we got back to NewYork we were out one night and
(14:10):
he said to me have you had yourperiod?
And I'm like no, I'm due, youknow, and he's thinking,
obviously in his head, cause hehe's figuring it out faster than
I am, obviously in his head,because he's figuring it out
faster than I am.
And I went and I took thesecond pregnancy test in my life
(14:30):
and discovered that I was trulypregnant one more time Now.
The first time that I did it,there seemed to be, you know, I
didn't think twice about it.
You know I didn't think twiceabout it.
The second time it was a littlemore complicated because I
truly did not want to go throughwith an abortion.
(14:50):
But my situation was such thatagain, here I am in this mixed
up relationship.
I've got two guys that I'minvolved with, one who's
stalking me, one who's sayinghe'll protect me, with one who's
stalking me, one who's sayinghe'll protect me.
And I go to see the sameabortion doctor that I had seen
(15:11):
the first time and they lookedat you know, they went and they
tested me, they did anultrasound to see how far along
I was and they told me that, youknow, far along I was.
And they told me that, you know, I wasn't as far along as I had
been the first time, but thatthey could still perform the
(15:34):
abortion.
And when I came out because Iwas with the same guy and he
looked at me and he said maybeyou should consider this.
And I lost it at that pointbecause at that point I had gone
into it with, with a belief ofI would not do this again.
And now I'm being told.
Maybe I should consider it,because the one thing that was
clear was there was no way totell whose child it was.
(15:58):
Was it the first guy who I hadslept with a few days before I
slept with the second guy, firstguy who I'd slept with a few
days before I slept with thesecond guy?
And you know, I think that partof it has to do with.
You know I remember with thefirst abortion and then doing
the ultrasound and determiningthat, you know I was far enough
(16:18):
along that they could perform anabortion, but not ever letting
me see that ultrasound.
I remember wanting to see theultrasound because in my brain,
I'm like they wouldn't let yousee it.
No, they would not show that tome at all.
I mean, and in my head I'mgoing well, it's a blob, right,
it's like an amoeba, it itdoesn't.
It doesn't have a face, itdoesn't have a heartbeat, right,
(16:40):
and I'm sure at that pointbecause I was far enough along
that I probably did have thosethings there they would not let
me see that.
So, with the second time, whenthey told me, you know, you're,
you're not as far along as youwere the first time, and this
all occurred within nine monthsof each other, right?
So the first abortion happenedin November timeframe ish.
(17:05):
And then the second abortionhappened in July, august
timeframe ish.
So you know, I mean, I at thatpoint felt like, you know, this
is just an unbelievablesituation.
You have placed yourself injust an unbelievable situation
(17:26):
you have placed yourself in and,as a result of that, it really
kind of turned me around,because once he gave me the okay
to do it, you know, I did itbecause, of course, my situation
was, in such a way, even worsethan it was the first time.
You know, I had instabilitywith a guy that I was dating
seriously, who was an alcoholic,and I felt like neither one of
(17:47):
us could raise a child or havethe means to do so.
And then, the second timearound, now I'm in a situation
with two different guys.
One of them is stalking me, andyou know I'm in fear, and in
both cases I would say that fearwas a driver of both.
Tonya Shellnutt (18:04):
Right.
So so we're going to back up alittle bit on this.
Well, actually, we're going togo forward and then back up.
So, um, so you had theabortions.
Um, we, you know, go a fewyears.
You're on your way to Montana.
God's going to do this.
You know incredible work on youIn the meantime.
(18:28):
You know walk with the audiencea little bit about.
You know how does that processbegin and and what?
How did the Lord begin to workon your heart on this issue, and
what were some of the you knowlies that you were, you know,
wrestling with in your mind thatthat God really had to begin to
(18:50):
work through.
Chris Kelly (18:52):
So, um, I would say that the abortion part of it
was something that I did talkabout.
Right, I had talked to my onesister about it.
Um, had talked to my one sisterabout it, I talked to my
youngest sister about it.
I eventually talked to my momabout it when my sister became
pregnant with my, with our firstnephew-niece situation.
(19:17):
I was a pretty big emotionalwreck at that point because it
would have been around the sametime that I would have given
birth as well.
So, you know, my mom was veryhard to say, but I would
describe it as almost dismissive, like I needed to get over this
because I had made thosechoices.
Those choices were mine tocarry and my burden to bear and
(19:42):
I needed to be happy for mysister, you know who was now
going to be giving birth, and Idon't think that I really
thought about it much, didn'treally consider it.
And then, when God started towork in my life, it was about a
year before I moved and I wastired of living in an area where
(20:05):
I felt like, you know, thingsjust were miserable all the time
.
You know the circumstances ofyour existence, all you're doing
is working all the time.
You're like a drone.
There was not a lot of you know, understanding about anything.
So I went back to going to theCatholic church, right, I
(20:26):
started going because it was allI knew, right.
And eventually, you know, whenI ended up in Montana, right, I
found a job.
It was something that wasgeared exactly towards me.
There was no way that I shouldhave gotten that job.
You know there werecircumstances that all fell into
(20:47):
that category.
Work was a priority for mebecause now that I had kind of
put to bed the you know, gettingmarried, having kids and not
happy with what I was seeing,you know, as far as the people
that I would meet, you know asfar as the people that I would
meet, when I ended up out inMontana, the first year that I
(21:08):
was there, I was starting to goto churches trying to see.
You know, I went to Catholicchurches, I tried other churches
, you know all things that theLord was kind of pushing me
towards.
And then my mom got sick and Ispent two months, roughly about
two months, in New York duringher treatments and things, until
(21:31):
she passed away.
So when I came back to Montana Iwas back in Montana, you know,
still kind of stumbling along,and you know the Lord of
stumbling along, and you knowthe Lord.
The Lord would bring peopleinto my life and I would kind of
be that person that would belike nope, hold up my hand, say
(21:52):
sorry, not interested.
You can talk about God, you cantalk about all these things,
and nope, nope, nope.
I don't want to hear what youhave to say.
And the reality is that theLord brought me the one person
that I would listen to, whichwas a man, and he was very
unconventional.
He drank, he smoked cigars, herode motorcycles, so it was all
(22:19):
the things that I foundattractive, and the Lord knew
that I would listen to thisperson.
And when this person came intomy life, the Lord sent his
messenger because he was a bornagain Christian.
And when he started talking, Imean, we had some really hard
(22:41):
conversations.
We talked about, you know, mymother's death, where she could
possibly be, whether she's inheaven or hell.
That was a struggle.
And then one day, while we weregetting ready to go out for
lunch, we were in the car andyou know, he was talking to me.
He had been showing me the Bible, he had been sharing the Bible
(23:03):
with me and the topic of myabortions came up and I remember
looking at him and thinking,well, but they're just blobs,
right, because I'm still livingin that same place of, they're
(23:24):
not babies, it's not, it's nottruly a human being.
And he kind of he kindly right,looked at me and said, well,
that's not really true.
And I immediately felt anoverwhelming shame for what I
(23:49):
had done and also the fact thathere he was trying to guide me
right, without being blatant andcalling me basically a murderer
, which is exactly what you arewhen you do those things.
And you know, I I remembergetting angry, I remember
(24:12):
yelling, I was crying, you know,and I was like, but you know,
trying to justify, you know, myown existence as to what I had
done.
And yeah, it was an interestingthing, to say the least,
because that was early on.
(24:32):
And you know, in October ofthat year I met him literally
right after my mom's you knowmemorial service in May.
So by August, september, we werespending a lot of time together
, um, and he took me to churchfor the first time, to a church
(24:54):
where, all of a sudden,everything made sense, right, he
sat me down in the front of thesanctuary and, as the pastor
was giving his sermon, you knowI'm listening to this sermon.
He's reading out of the Bibleand I'm like, oh, now I'm
(25:18):
getting it right, and it wasthat, that trigger, that started
me down the path.
So by January of that year, Igave my life to Christ and, you
know, have had this walk where,you know, I had shame when I did
(25:40):
those things.
I certainly, um, feel as thoughI didn't really address it, I
just buried it, but I would talkabout it Once I became a born
again Christian.
That kind of changed.
Right, because there's stillshame that comes with it, even
(26:01):
though I know that I'm forgivenby God.
Though I know that I'm forgivenby God, but at the same time,
it's very hard to talk about.
You know, because when youbring up these topics, you know,
most of the time when peoplehear that, they're just stunned,
(26:22):
right, because they look at theperson that I am today and they
don't see that person that Iwas 30, 40 years ago.
Tonya Shellnutt (26:26):
Right, that's the, that is the wonderful thing
about God and his redemptivepower, right Is that he changes
lives.
So I want to talk a little bitabout about that, because a
couple of things so you know we,the the lies that you believed
and and how you worked throughthat, and the importance of you
(26:50):
know.
Well, you thought they were, youknow, just a blob.
You didn't really think thatthey were alive, that it was
real life.
You know the shame that goeswith it and you know how,
because so many women we talkabout the hidden pain, right,
whether it's abortion or sexualabuse or addictions, whatever
(27:11):
they hide it because they'reafraid that people will judge
them or, you know, befriend themor whatever it is.
And so you know, talk a littlebit about how you and and I know
that you know working throughthe shame and the guilt it's.
(27:31):
It's still even to this day,cause you're my best friend and
I know this and I struggle withit.
We still struggle with it.
And so how do you, you know,what is some advice that you can
give a post-abortive womanwho's still struggling with this
and what can she do about it tohelp her on this journey?
Chris Kelly (27:55):
So I would say that you know, it's kind of like
we've talked about in the past,right?
I mean, I have stayed single,I've never been married, I have
never had any children of my own, and do I believe that those
abortions are the reasons whythose things are the way they
are?
I do believe that.
(28:15):
You know, I do believe that myjourney that the Lord has given
me to take in this manner, itwas kind of a combination of two
things.
There was the selfishness,right, where I was very career
focused, especially after mymother passed away, um, because
it was kind of that connectionthat I had with my mom that once
(28:36):
that was gone, I no longer feltlike I needed to be married or
I needed to have children.
But I have lots of friends thatdo have kids and I have found
that that has been a redeemerfor me is working or spending
time with those kids, becausethey're not my children, right.
(28:59):
But I am kind of like surrogatemom in some ways, right, where I
have kids that will come to meand they will confide in me or
they will talk to me or theywill tell me things that they
don't tell their parents, andthere is a connection that
happens, which I can't explain.
It's not something that I wouldnecessarily say is part of my
(29:23):
forte or part of my personality,that I can, you know, bring
children in or bring people inwhere they find that they can
confide in me with certainthings, um, but certainly it's
something that I think hasfilled the gap, you know, where
I don't have kids of my own, butit is something that I, um, I
(29:48):
definitely feel a connection tois, you know, spending time with
those kids, and I will say mychildren have been the
beneficiaries of that and we'revery, very, very, very, very
blessed by you and the time andthe I'm going to cry.
Tonya Shellnutt (30:11):
If you cry, then I'm going to cry, I know, I
know.
But you know we're just realand raw on this show.
But my family, my children andmany, many kids have been very
blessed by you, chris, and I'mvery thankful for that.
I'm very thankful for Godgetting a hold of you and
(30:33):
instead of, you know, turningthe shame and the guilt inwardly
to anger and bitterness, youhave such a giving spirit and a
giving heart to so many.
And so it goes to the, you know, courageous overcomers part,
using our pain for good and um.
But one thing I do want you toto talk to our listeners about
(30:56):
is about what do you do with theshame and the guilt, like, how
do you work through that?
Because that is the number onething that women struggle with,
um on this issue.
Chris Kelly (31:11):
There's no other way around it.
I mean, you have to give it upto God, you know, I mean, I have
many sins in my past and, um,that is, one of the things that
I have learned is that, throughGod's grace, that is the only
way that it helps you to, uh,navigate those feelings and
(31:35):
emotions.
You know, um, because it'sstill a learning process for me,
right, it's still a.
I don't know if learning is theright way, but it's still a
healing process for me, right.
All these years later you knowyou're talking it's over 30
years ago that these thingshappened, and there's still
(31:56):
times when I can catch myselfand be like you know, you know,
I feel that pain, right, of nothaving a child, or what it would
have been like to have a kid.
You know, I can remember veryvividly, a couple of years ago,
I was really struggling with thefact that I am single, you know
(32:18):
, and I am in many ways alone,right.
So, where I see my friends withtheir kids nowadays, where
they're older, they're allgetting married, they're all
getting on with their lives,they're all getting their own
lives.
You know, I think about myselfin my old age and I say, who's
going to be here for me, right,because it's not.
(32:40):
You know, like I mean, I listento some of my friends who are
like you know, my daughter or myson, you know they'll take care
of me in my old age, and Ithink to myself, yeah, there's
nobody for you, right, god'shere.
That's the thing that keeps megoing.
I know you do, but I mean it is.
(33:10):
It is in some ways, anoverwhelming feeling, right,
when you realize that, you know,you really don't have that kind
of a connection.
There isn't a husband, therearen't kids, right, and as much
as I love my dogs, you knowthey're, they're not going to be
able to, you know, help me getup the stairs or whatever, right
, so it's, it's very groundingin some ways, right, Because it
(33:38):
does require you to put yourfaith and trust into the Lord
and that he is going to see thisthrough, you know no matter
what it is.
Tonya Shellnutt (33:48):
And I think you make the point of that's very
important.
It's about being intentional,right?
You know?
The other thing that you do,that you do very well also, is
you get involved.
You get involved in your church.
You're involved in a women'sBible study.
You know, and I think that'simportant because, again, it's
(34:08):
very easy to fall into the shameand the anger and the
bitterness, but there's a levelof intentionality that has to
play out here.
And you know, as we begin towrap up the podcast, I want you
to just give our audience, ourlisteners, you know, just what
(34:31):
is the one piece of advice thathas helped you on this journey.
And we're going to come back,I'm going to have you back on
another episode to talk about alittle bit more in depth, about
the not having children, becauseI think that's an important
conversation in and of itself.
(34:52):
But what is one piece of advicethat you would give the
listeners today that arelistening to this who have maybe
never shared about theirabortion or are, you know, still
living in tremendous shame andguilt?
Chris Kelly (35:09):
abortion or are, you know, still living in
tremendous shame and guilt?
Um, I would say I was.
You know, we talked about how Iwasn't going to do any kind of
research before him, but I waslooking at, um my Bible this
morning and I was readingthrough some things about
courage and one of the thingsthat I came across was second
Corinthians three, 12, thereforehaving such a hope.
(35:32):
We use great boldness in ourspeech and I think that the way
to overcome that shame is totalk about these experiences and
what it does to people.
Right, Because the lie that isportrayed by the world is that
(35:56):
it's meaningless, it doesn'tmean anything, that there is no
impact to what happens when ababy is aborted and there are
lots of impacts that happen.
And even if you're not abeliever and you think that that
is not something that wouldhappen to you, it does happen.
(36:17):
Right, Because there is.
You know, it is a horrific,horrific experience to go
through and you need to havecourage, Courage to speak about
it and rely on the Lord.
You know he'll direct you andhe will take care of you.
Tonya Shellnutt (36:39):
Yeah, bring to light the darkness right All
through.
Scripture talks about shininglight on the darkness so that it
can free you.
And so that just brings me to aresource that I have created,
not just on the abortion frontbut on any wound that you're
carrying, and it's the five dayhealing cleanse workbook, and
(37:03):
you can take any issue thatyou're going through with this.
I went through it last week alittle bit about how it can help
you in regards to your abortionjourney, but I want you to go
to my website,wwwtanyashellnutcom, and
download the workbook.
There's a tab on there orthere's a button that you can
(37:23):
just click and we will get it toyou.
I want you to be courageous andshare this episode with a friend
that might need to hear it.
And then also, I know thatChris and Catherine have both
are more than happy to visitwith any of the listeners who
are struggling with this andjust have questions on how to
(37:45):
you know, seek help or what itis.
So just email me and I'll getyou in touch with them, and then
, as always, leave a five-starreview, because when you do, we
can help get hope out faster.
And, chris, I just I love youso much.
I'm so thankful for you, forbeing courageous and brave to do
this and to share with ouraudience, and I can't wait to
(38:06):
have you back.
If I just I can't my myaudience has no idea just what a
I'm going to cry again, butwhat a blessing you are to all
of us in so many ways and just Ilove you so much and I hope
that the audience will sharethis and bring hope to others.
(38:27):
So until next week, I'll seeyou all then.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Thank you for joining us here on Courageous
Overcomers with Tonya Shellnutt.
Please remember to follow, likeand share this podcast.
To find out more about Tonya,go to her website at
tonyashellnutt.
com, or to ask a question aboutanything you've heard on today's
show.
Leave us a five-star review andyour message or email at tanya
at tonyashellnutt.
com.
(38:55):
Remember that'sS-H-E-L-L-N-U-T-T.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Productions.
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