June 30, 2025 • 43 mins
What makes a podcast valuable? Is it immediate popularity, or something deeper? "Every podcast you create will exist for many years to come," observes Clayton M. Coke of The Cashflow Show podcast, highlighting the lasting significance of podcasting as a medium that creates permanent records of our conversations and ideas.
Clayton reveals how he uses his platform to interview business owners about their successes, failures, and personal interests, but his most compelling point centres on creator compensation – why should podcasters provide their platforms as free promotional vehicles when PR teams are being paid to pitch guests? This conversation challenges the status quo and advocates for proper valuation of podcasters' work.
We also look at some of the practical aspects of the TrueFans platform, with Sam explaining how the funding tag works to create sustainable income streams for independent creators. This feature allows listeners to set monthly budgets that automatically distribute micropayments to their favourite podcasters with each new episode – creating a fair exchange of value between creator and audience.
In this episode Sam and Claire highlight a number of valuable resources for independent podcasters including newsletters like Eurowaves, Ear Worthy, and Podnews.
We also spotlight AMPD Studios in Cape Town, South Africa – a remarkable free podcasting hub founded by Jon Savage that provides recording facilities, equipment, and support to podcasters of all experience levels. This community-focused initiative now faces potential closure after losing a major sponsor, highlighting both the power and fragility of creator support systems.
Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just getting started, this episode offers insights into creating lasting content while building sustainable creator-audience relationships.
This episode discusses:
- Why podcasters should be paid for their work, especially when providing promotional value to guests
- The funding tag and the TrueFans support mechanism that allows podcasters to receive micropayments from listeners
- How comments and feedback create meaningful connections between podcasters and listeners
- The podcast blogs and newsletters — such as Eurowaves, Ear Worthy, and Podnews – that provide valuable industry resources
- Other useful podcasting resources, including The Future of Podcasting and podcasting2.org, that help creators understand and implement Podcasting 2.0 features
- AMPD Studios in South Africa offers free recording facilities for podcasters but needs financial support
Ready to support independent creators? Download the TrueFans app today and start streaming value directly to the podcasts you love.
Listen to The Cashflow Show here
Find TrueFans here
Music: How It Is from Ketsa Music
Feedback: TrueFans Support
Read: Creators Blog
Recommendations: Creators Podroll
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Clayton M Coke (00:06):
I look at it, that you are creating a document
that will exist for many yearsto come.
Sam Sethi (00:12):
So every podcast that you do in 50 years time, if
it's stored properly, somebodywill be able to find that
creators set the value, usersdetermine whether they want to
pay that value or change it, andthen we look at what the final
value that's been agreed andthat's what we take from your
budget.
Jon Savage (00:31):
And it's completely free for the creator economy.
The biggest podcast is thesmallest podcast and people have
just walked off the streetsaying I don't want a podcast,
but I want to make one.
They all have a home at Amt.
Sam Sethi (00:43):
We need to also highlight independent podcast
creators and give them thespotlight, and I hope this show
is going to be that.
Claire Waite Brown (00:52):
Welcome to Creators from True Fans.
I'm independent podcaster,claire Waite-Brown.
Sam Sethi (00:59):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Fans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:01):
Each episode , we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:10):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the True Fansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:19):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:25):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world.
That could be a benefit toindependent creators.
Claire Waite Brown (01:31):
Hi Claire, Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:34):
I'm very good.
Yes, heat waves, heat waves arecoming.
So, yes, we won't be so goodafter that, but that's the
struggle of the Brits Right thisweek, our featured podcast is
Cashflow Show from Clayton MCoke, which you can find
featured at the top of the TrueFans homepage and in the Podcast
we're Loving list.
You'll find that on thehomepage as well.
Claire Waite Brown (01:56):
Yeah, and I chatted with Clayton, so here's
my interview.
Hi, clayton, how are you?
Clayton M Coke (02:02):
I'm very well.
Thank you, claire, very well.
Claire Waite Brown (02:05):
Brilliant.
Start by telling me, please,the name of your show and what
it's all about.
Clayton M Coke (02:11):
Yes, it's the Cashflow Show podcast, and we
are a business andentrepreneurship podcast which
basically does one of two things.
In the first instance, we dolong form interviews with a
business owner, usually afounder or CEO.
We confine it to that.
We ask them about how they gotstarted in business, their
business journey, the mistakesthat they made and the successes
(02:35):
that they've had, Along withother personal questions in
relation to what kind of musicthey like, what kind of books
they like and what kind ofmovies they like.
Claire Waite Brown (02:44):
Brilliant, so you're getting to know the
person as well.
Clayton M Coke (02:48):
Yes, I think that's really important because
I wanted it to be for businesspeople to see somebody and say
I'd like to work with them, youlike Star Wars, I like Star Wars
, you like drinking, I likedrinking.
Not to say they're together,but the same principle applies,
yeah, but also we do shorterform stuff, which is basically
shorter interviews which aremore in the moment.
(03:10):
So if something is happeningtoday so, for example, hsbc are
saying to people you have to getback into the office, so we may
have a person who'sknowledgeable in office space,
in the legalities of it, etc.
Etc.
And that would make for a shortform 20 minute interview that
we put up in order to keep pacewith what's happening in the
(03:31):
business world.
Claire Waite Brown (03:32):
Yeah, oh, brilliant, I understand when and
why did you start the podcast.
Clayton M Coke (03:39):
I have my original career, which is in law
.
I tried to move away from doingpure law and I found an area of
law that I wanted to specializein that I thought I could make
a business out of.
So I decided on debt recoveryand late payments because I felt
that a lot of businesses,especially SME business small
(04:00):
and medium enterprises they werein a position where there was
nobody to fight for them.
They would go and say, dobusiness with a company like
Sony or KPMG, a big company, abig name but nobody was fighting
for them when they couldn't getpaid.
So, for example, you're agraphic designer, you do a
design for, say, spotify, and nohate to Spotify, I don't want
(04:23):
you to come and cancel mysubscriptions or anything like
that.
So, but to ring up Spotify andno hate to Spotify, I don't want
you to come and cancel mysubscriptions or anything like
that.
So, but to ring up Spotify andget your money.
Or to ring up Sony and get yourmoney.
It's it's a difficult processbecause you've tried to build
that relationship, but now youhave to say please, sir, can I
have some more?
Which kind of weakens yourbargaining position.
Now I, what I did, is toeffectively become a mediator
(04:46):
between the two parties, so Iwould be able to have the
knowledge and the wherewithal toget inside Sony or get into the
accounts department and findout where my client's payment's
gone.
So that was the first bit.
But the real reason was becauseI used to go to networking
events and what happened was Iwould talk to people and they
would say oh, debt recovery, I'mjust going to the loo and
(05:12):
they'd never come back.
So I tried different clothes, Itried different aftershave, I
tried a few different things, Itried going in disguise, but it
didn't work.
So I realized that I neededsomething in order to be able to
position me as anon-threatening person, but also
somebody that could providevalue to a business.
(05:34):
I'd heard of this thing calledpodcasting and, to be fair, I'd
had a background in audiobecause I used to be in bands
and record ourselves and go intothe studio.
So I roughly knew how it worked.
But I'd never done a sort ofpure audio podcast recording
voice, and they're two differentthings, really Similar but not
(05:54):
the same.
So I then decided this is whatI'm going to do I'm going to
basically set up this podcast.
So I set up a podcast and I gota couple of people in and I
said I'm going to do a podcast.
Do you want to be on it?
And they said what's a podcast?
So I said, well, you talk intothe microphone and you put it on
the internet and people get tohear it.
(06:14):
But I didn't know what I wasdoing either, didn't have a clue
.
So I put it on SoundCloud fortwo years and nothing happened.
And then I said why is nothinghappening here?
So then I started to get intothese blogs and realized I
needed to switch.
So I switched to Anchor beforeAnchor was purchased by Spotify.
(06:35):
So Anchor was the way ofgetting everybody onto a free
platform and that worked reallywell.
But I then found that you couldnever check your analytics
Right.
Spotify, the podcast, hasanalytics, but when it was in
its Anchor format it didn't haveit.
So then I basically left Anchorand then I joined Transistor
(06:57):
and they were building theirbusiness.
But what I liked about them isthat they gave you a certain
amount of support that you couldnever get from trying to dial
into a big company like Spotify.
So if you made a query,somebody was going to get back
to you.
So that then started my journey, and that journey is continuing
(07:17):
now, brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (07:19):
You said you interview founders.
How do you choose who to have?
Clayton M Coke (07:25):
on your show.
Contentious point.
This is a contentious pointbecause you can only usually get
onto the show by invitation,sometimes by recommendation, but
I don't want to interview 20million lawyers, but I want
people who have interestingbusinesses, people who have made
(07:48):
a business out of somethingthat might be quite left field
or off kilter.
Claire Waite Brown (07:53):
So it's not a dry, boring business podcast
then Clayton is it?
Clayton M Coke (07:58):
I'm a serious person by nature, but the
reality of it is is that whenyou're presenting business
nature, but the reality of it isis that when you're presenting
business, most people'sbusinesses are from some form of
passion.
They usually believe insomething, and what I do is I
pick out people who I believehave passion.
Now, one of the things about meis that I do not do pre
(08:20):
interviews, so I'm on a tightwire as to I could invite this
person onto the show and theycould sit there and go.
Yes, no, could be.
It could be a complete,unmitigated disaster.
But the fact is, if you aresufficiently interested in your
project or whatever, thatenthusiasm will come through.
(08:41):
So that helps me to be able topick the right guests, who I
feel are people that could carrythe show.
I don't want people to say I'mhere to promote my book, I'm
here to promote my book.
I'm here to promote my book.
If you want to sponsor anepisode that will be X amount of
pounds, please in advance.
However, if you are chosen,very good.
However, if you are chosen,it's because I believe in what
(09:05):
you do and I want to work withyou in promoting that and
sharing that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How do you fit this intime-wise with you?
Know everything else you'redoing.
Clayton M Coke (09:22):
The question is, how do you stop podcasting
taking over your life?
Because when you think ofyou've got to read the forums,
you then basically got to readall the newsletters.
It's one of those things thatonce you go down the rabbit hole
, it can really take up a lot oftime.
And it does take quite a bit oftime.
But I look at it that you arecreating a document that will
(09:44):
exist for many years to come.
So every podcast that you do in50 years time, if it's stored
properly, somebody will be ableto find that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:53):
Yeah.
Clayton M Coke (09:54):
So, yeah, it does take up a long time, a lot
of time, I should say.
But it also is something thatthe more tools that you use, the
easier it becomes.
For example, when it comes toRiverside, I have to give them a
plug because theirtranscription situation changed
the game for me.
Before I had to literally gothrough the whole thing, but now
(10:16):
with the transcription, yeah, Ican just basically be in a
scenario where ultimately gotthat transcription, take it up
into ChatGPT or anything else,and basically it spits out
everything that I need and ifyou give it the right prompts
and that the prompts areincredibly important then you
(10:37):
will get the correct result.
Claire Waite Brown (10:39):
We've seen them since starting podcasting.
We've seen tools advance soquickly to help us save time,
haven't we?
Of course, yeah, now tell me,clayton, what is one thing that
frustrates you about podcastingor the podcasting world.
Clayton M Coke (10:59):
The low valuation that is placed on the
podcasting craft.
I am a bit of a rabble rouserand a troublemaker because I
insist that podcasters shouldget paid for their work.
Now I'm in a very fortunateposition that because I do a
business podcast, I get a lot ofbusiness people approaching me
(11:22):
at some point, or agencies or PRpeople approaching me saying
we've got this chap, he's formedthree companies, they're seven
figures company, he's been sosuccessful and he'd like to be
on your show.
But ultimately this PR iscontacting as many people as
possible, Not a problem.
My difficulty is this is thatthat PR person is getting paid
(11:47):
for their work and they shouldbe paid for their work.
But what I notice in thepodcasting world is that it's
just accepted that you should dogood quality work with
excellent editing.
And now we're into the videorealm good quality video but
accept no payment or expect nopayment in return, and I think
(12:12):
that is absolutely shocking.
That should not be the default.
It should not be the de factoposition.
Claire Waite Brown (12:19):
So would you charge that guest then?
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Clayton M Coke (12:23):
Yeah, I am a person.
I like to see myself as a kindperson and a giving person, and
that's fundamentally me as aperson.
But I do feel that if you'vecreated three so-called seven
figure companies, you've got acouple of quid down the back of
your sofa.
Claire Waite Brown (12:42):
You could share it out a little bit,
couldn't?
Clayton M Coke (12:44):
you?
Yeah, you could share it out.
Ultimately, the bottom line isthat if you're a business and
you want me to promote youbecause I'm a part of your
promotional code, then once Ithen basically start to validate
your seven-figure businesses,then why shouldn't I be paid for
that?
And I now say what's yourbudget?
I'd love to have you on.
(13:04):
Pay for that.
And I now say what's yourbudget?
I'd love to have you on.
You seem like a very nice chapor chapess.
What is your budget?
Because you must have a budget.
You're running a business, Irun a business.
Claire Waite Brown (13:13):
Yeah, perfect.
What about your listeners?
Do you find that they interactwith?
Clayton M Coke (13:22):
you.
Now this is really weird.
I don't get much communicationvia, say, instagram or Twitter.
I get most people trying tosell me stuff.
That's most of thecommunication I get.
However, in real life, when Imeet people say, oh, I've
listened to your show, blah,blah, blah and I'm thinking,
have you?
(13:42):
And I'm flattered by that.
Anybody that spends 20 minuteslistening to me or spends an
hour giving me their time and asyou get older, you realize how
precious time is.
Anybody who gives me that time.
I'm grateful and I'm very, veryappreciative of it.
But most people tell me thatthey like what I do in person as
(14:03):
opposed to in writing.
It's nice, but I'd love morepeople to subscribe and put
things in writing because thathelps me to share that message
even further.
Claire Waite Brown (14:13):
Completely agree and I think that's another
one of those sticking pointswithin podcasting currently that
it's not much of a two-wayrelationship.
Clayton M Coke (14:23):
No, because I think, unless you're famous or
you're deemed famous, you don'tget the fan adulation that, say,
the Joe Rogans or the MelRobbins or the Stephen Bartletts
might get.
Claire Waite Brown (14:36):
Now, True Fans is a podcasting 2.0
listening device.
What do you know aboutpodcasting 2.0?
Clayton M Coke (14:47):
I know the fact that it's a standard, or you're
trying to promote it as standard, but I also know that certain
hosts work within that and I getthat transistor being one of
them because I'm on there.
But apart from that, I actuallyreally don't know that much
about it.
I know that it exists, I knowwhat it's trying to do, but I've
never done a deep dive into it.
Claire Waite Brown (15:07):
Yeah, we've been talking about interacting,
and one of the features is, insome apps they're called boosts
and in True Fans they're calledcomments, where your listeners
can comment in the actual app onthe actual episode that they're
listening to.
So we'd like to encourage morepeople to do that, because then
we know you're out there.
Clayton M Coke (15:29):
Exactly Because it's really important.
That's why radios havephone-ins and they gauge
listener response and onaudience.
But I think people look at apodcast as, oh, I've listened to
it, now, I've done my job, I'moff, not realizing that you need
their sustained input to makeit happen.
And you're saying thatbasically, the TrueFans and the
(15:49):
2.0 allows and facilitates forthat.
Claire Waite Brown (15:53):
Yeah, exactly.
In some of them you need toattach a micropayment to your
comment.
In TrueFans you can do acomment without attaching a
payment and you can attach apayment, if you choose to, of
whatever you want.
I'll just talk to the listenersListeners of Clayton's show
write some comments so he knowsyou're out there in the True
(16:14):
Fans app.
Clayton M Coke (16:16):
Thank you, that'd be very, very kind.
Claire Waite Brown (16:19):
When I do my research into the shows and the
people that I interview onCreators, I stream a very small
amount of micropayment to thatshow.
So I have been streaming fivesats per minute to your show on
True Fans Right.
So when you go to True Fans andif you haven't already claimed
(16:41):
your show, you can claim yourshow by using your email in your
RSS feed and then you'll have avery, very small monetary
surprise in your true fanswallet.
Clayton M Coke (16:51):
Well, do you know something?
That's a beautiful way of doingthings because it's a great,
great motivator.
Because it's hard to staySomebody mentioned this at the
podcast show how do you staymotivated?
Because it's a very long andlonely road and that's why I
push for the monetary aspect ofit, because even if you, as a
podcaster, got 50 quid for eachpodcast that you do, it would be
(17:14):
something.
Claire Waite Brown (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's a token of value as wellfor you, isn't it?
The money?
Money's nice, but it's also atoken of appreciation between
listener and podcaster.
Listen clayton.
Thank you so much for this chat.
How can people connect with you?
Clayton M Coke (17:32):
they can connect with me in one of many ways,
but the first way that they canstart off with is clayton m coke
on linkedin.
There's onlyton M Coke there,so it is going to be as easy.
If you look up the picture ofthe podcast, then you'll find me
pretty much quite easily.
You can also find us onInstagram the Cashflow Show I
(17:55):
think it might be the CashflowShow Podcast, I can't work out
which one or on Twitter theCashflow Show as well, but if
you type on the Cashflow Show toeither one, you'll see my
smiling face to welcome you tosubscribe and follow, and that's
something that we wouldencourage people to do.
We'd love to get moresubscribers and love to get more
(18:15):
followers and more commentators, and hopefully we can do that.
Claire Waite Brown (18:20):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much, Clayton.
I've had a super time.
Clayton M Coke (18:24):
Well, thank you, it's been absolutely wonderful
and I appreciate you reachingout and sharing the opportunity
of sharing your platform.
Claire Waite Brown (18:30):
Thank you.
Sam Sethi (18:32):
You can hear more from that interview at the end
of the episode of Creators,where Clayton talks about some
of the interesting guests he'sfeatured and the software,
hardware and processes he usesto get his show made.
Claire Waite Brown (18:46):
If you'd like to chat with us about your
independent podcast or yourmusic, send a comment or super
comment in True Fans to anyCreators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on thecomments tab.
Clayton mentioned in thatinterview that he hears good
things about his show frompeople he happens to meet.
(19:07):
So when he meets people in reallife then he gets the feedback,
but not through unsolicitedmeans such as reviews, messages
or comments.
So I gave the Cashflow show asuper comment in True Fans and
we spoke about comments on thatinterview.
As you know and I would justlike to encourage any listeners
(19:30):
to do the same for any of theshows that they really enjoy and
value you have the power tomake a podcaster feel
appreciated and, in turn, makethem very happy.
Sam Sethi (19:42):
If you recall I mean most of us have had this in our
time right when you've heard aradio show where someone's read
out a birthday request and itmay be your own that you know
your parents might have sent in,and the joy you feel when you
hear that back.
So I think when people start togive podcasters commentary back
(20:02):
, it's nice to know you're notjust talking to yourself down a
microphone.
That's lovely.
You know from your downloadsyou've probably got an audience,
but it's nice to hear from thataudience.
But also, I think the otherside of it is when you have left
a comment and the creator ofthe podcast actually reads it
out.
You feel you've got a closerrelationship between each other
(20:24):
then and it's an interactivityand I always think it's a great
way for people to build a deeperrelationship with the creator.
Claire Waite Brown (20:32):
Absolutely.
I had an email today, sam,actually from a Creativity Found
listener, and they said that myshow had encouraged them in the
early stages of starting somecreative workshops and starting
a creative business and you knowit was absolutely filled my
(20:52):
heart.
So it is really lovely to getsome feedback and comments, in
whichever form you make them.
Sam Sethi (20:59):
Indeed.
Now we've been collecting thequestions that listeners have
sent into us.
Claire, talking ofinteractivity, which question
have you?
Claire Waite Brown (21:07):
explain to me what the funding tag is how I
, as a podcaster, can use it,how listeners can use it as well
(21:30):
.
Sam Sethi (21:31):
The funding tag is a great way to get monetization
back to your podcast from yourfan base.
Now the funding tag was part ofthe podcasting 2.0 extensions
to RSS and so many hostsBuzzsprout, our hosts and others
like RSScom and Blueberry allowyou, as a creator, to turn on
(21:53):
your funding tag.
Now the funding tag fieldallows you to have a simple URL
that points to a place where youcan pay monies to the creator.
So I think with your podcast,Claire, you've used Buy Me A
Coffee, you may have usedPatreon, so there are multiple
different places that you couldput a URL for the funding tag
(22:16):
into your RSS feed and then appslike TrueFounds will read that
funding tag and say, ah, Clairesays if you would like to
support Creativity Found, pleaseclick on this link or this icon
in TrueFans and we will open upthat page where you might say
you can give me one pound amonth, five pounds, ten pounds,
whatever the amount you want,and that's a lovely way of doing
(22:38):
it and that's been thetraditional way so far.
Pocket Casts included it as aupdate recently and I hope all
the podcasting apps actually useit because you know the more
ways that people can give backto independent podcast creators
that don't rely on advertising,then the better.
I think it is.
So in true fans, we allow youto put you know your RSS feed
(23:03):
with a funding tag and we willhonor whatever link you have.
Many podcasts don't have anexternal URL link and when we
find that, what we do is we turnon the TrueFans funding tag
option.
So if you go to a podcast andyou see the funding tag in
TrueFounds, which is a hand witha little heart above it, you
(23:25):
click on it and it'll pop up abox which will give you $1, $3,
$5, $10.
If you're trading in dollars orpounds, or euros or Swedish
krona, you choose the amountthat you want to give that
creator per month and we willtake that amount out of your
wallet and give it to thatcreator.
(23:45):
Now we've done one extra thingin TrueFans, as always.
For example, if you were insomething like Patreon, you
could pay five pounds a monthand, whether they produced a new
episode or not, your fivepounds will be given to them.
Now we decided that that wasn'treally fair.
If they're not giving you newcontent, why should you keep
(24:07):
giving them money?
So in True Fans, you might put.
Five pound a month is my budgetand then every time a new
episode is delivered, apercentage of that five pounds
is given to the creator, andwhen that full five pounds is
taken as in used up, then nomore money is given to that
(24:28):
creator until the next monthwhen that five pounds is
automatically refreshed fromyour wallet.
Claire Waite Brown (24:35):
Yeah, I understand that and I understand
the budget of it, that youtherefore will not spend over
five pounds.
Where does the percentage comefrom?
Sam Sethi (24:47):
so this is where we have to educate creators and
true fans to set the play value.
So you set the amount as a.
You might say it's 1p perminute or 100 sats per minute.
But you, as the creator, say Iwould love you to give me this
amount of money per minute.
We multiply that by the totaltime of the episode and that
(25:11):
creates a value that the creatorhas for each episode.
Now that's an offer value.
So, for example, let's say oneof your shows, claire, you said
I want to set it at 10p a minuteand it's a one hour show, so
that's six pounds.
Now I go wow, no, sorry, claire, that's a bit much.
(25:31):
I'm going to give you 5p aminute or I'm going to give you
50 sats per minute, and werecalculate that because the
listener always has the finalsay in the amount they pay.
But that calculated amount isthen the total value that we
take from your funding tagbudget.
So if the total value of thatepisode was, for example, 50p,
(25:56):
then we would take 50p from that£5 budget and then the next day
drops and we would maybe takeanother 50p and another 50p, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,until that £5 was exhausted.
And then if in the month therewas more episodes but you had no
more budget, then we wouldn'ttake any more money from your
(26:16):
wallet and then the next month,when it refreshed, we would
start again.
So, yes, creators set the value.
Claire Waite Brown (26:23):
Users determine whether they want to
pay that value or change it, andthen we look at what the final
value that's been agreed andthat's what we take from your
budget we actually talk aboutthis from the listeners point of
view on Fan Zone, and so I willdirect listeners to episode 11
(26:43):
on stream icon and also episode25, which is all about the
funding tag.
So if you want to explore thatsome more, listen to Fan Zone.
I've got some pictures in thechapters that show you how to do
the things so you can explorethat further.
Thank you for that, sam.
Sam Sethi (27:00):
Moving on to the fan box.
Have we heard from any of ourlisteners this week, Claire,
since the last episode?
Claire Waite Brown (27:05):
We sure have .
So I've got quite a few here,Excellent, so buckle up.
We have heard from the lateBloomer actor and he has said it
was great to hear from anotherindie podcaster and how they're
learning from true fans.
Thank you very much.
We actually haven't forgottenyou, David.
(27:28):
We have done an interview withthe Late Bloomer actor and it
will appear in a future episodeof Creators.
Just wanted to let David knowthat From Seth, loving how
you're highlighting podcastersand doing more than just all
True Fans stuff.
Sam Sethi (27:45):
Yes, this is a show within True Fans and, yes, we
would like to highlight some ofthe features and functions, but
you and I agreed, claire, whenwe met in Birmingham at
UniPodFest, that we need to alsohighlight independent podcast
creators and give them thespotlight, and I hope this show
is going to be that yeah, super.
Claire Waite Brown (28:05):
Martin linderskog.
Okay, he left us a commenttalking about my interview a
couple of episodes ago withjoanna pr neves and
exhibitionistas podcast and hesaid chapter feature could be
used for this podcast on artvisualising the art with words
and chapters images.
(28:26):
He also said testing the iOSapp small row of ducks.
So the small row of ducks is222 SATS.
Thank you very much for that,Martin, and I hope he's enjoying
testing the app.
Sam Sethi (28:39):
Well, testing the app .
Now it's gone live, Claire.
Now it's actually in the AppStore, so version 1.0 is now
live.
We will update that versionwith some more features in the
coming weeks Because you knowthe way that Apple works is you
have to really pass their test,get into the store, and that was
our first critical and now wewant to go and tweak a few
(29:02):
features and functions so thatit works a little bit faster.
But yeah, we're very happy.
Claire Waite Brown (29:07):
Yeah, brilliant, I've been enjoying it
as well.
Sam Sethi (29:09):
Thank you.
Claire Waite Brown (29:10):
I wanted to talk as well.
I've heard some lovely commentsin my emails.
Jenica Sadwani she hosts a showcalled Multispective and she
approached me regarding atrailer swap for Creativity
Found, which we are going to dobecause I listened to her show
and liked it very much.
And in our communications Isuggested she take a look at
(29:30):
True Fans and she wrote backsaying I created an account with
True Fans.
It's such an awesome platform,so great for discovering
podcasts, and it was really easyto claim my podcast.
The platform is a user-friendly, one-stop blend of good pods
and Patreon.
Sam Sethi (29:49):
She's got it.
Wow, very well done, jenica.
Thank you.
Yes, that's where we're aimingfor.
We're trying to provide creatorportals.
You, yes, that's where we'reaiming for.
We're trying to providecreative portals, as I think is
the term I'm using, the idea ofbeing able to, yes, have your
podcast, but eventually, whatwe'd love people to do is start
to write their blogs there, toput their merchandise, to put
(30:10):
event listings, if they havethem, and create it as your
central point yeah, that'sbrilliant also, and Andrea
Koskaj from Eurowaves got intouch about last week's episode
featuring Fariba and OnSpecpodcast and Andrea said Claire,
I loved this interview andoverall the episode.
Claire Waite Brown (30:31):
I'll be featuring it in Eurowaves this
week.
Sam Sethi (30:34):
Nice.
Claire Waite Brown (30:35):
And lo and behold, Andrea does say lovely
things about creators in herlatest Eurowaves blog that I've
just received.
So thank you so much, Andrea.
For those who don't know,Eurowaves is a blog on Substack
with an email newsletter thatspecifically focuses on European
podcasting, and Andrea'sEurosounds Google group is
(30:58):
actually where I first metFariba.
While I was looking at this, Ithought there's some other
podcast blogs that I subscribeto that other people might be
interested in.
Is it okay if I mention acouple of those Sam?
Sam Sethi (31:12):
Absolutely no.
We're here to promote everybodywithin the community.
Claire Waite Brown (31:16):
Cool, so one that our listeners might be
interested in is Earworthy fromFrank.
Sam Sethi (31:23):
Rassiopi.
Claire Waite Brown (31:24):
Very nice.
Thank you.
I'll leave that one with you.
Who is the kindred spirit, sam,since he showcases independent
podcasts.
He recently wrote a blog aboutme, which was nice, in which he
talked about creativity, foundpodcasting 2.0 in practice and
creators.
Thank you so much, frank.
Plus, frank is going to be afuture guest on this show to
(31:47):
tell us more about Earworthy.
Sam Sethi (31:49):
Excellent.
Claire Waite Brown (31:50):
Other blogs I can recommend include Podcast
Newsletter from Lauren Purcellof Tink Media and the podcast
Critic Newsletter from GreatPods Sam.
Are there any other podcastblogs or newsletters that you
recommend?
Sam Sethi (32:07):
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't recommend
James Cridland's Daily Pod News,which is the go-to of the whole
industry.
I guess James puts it out everyday I don't know how he does it
, but he does every day.
So if you want to read it, youcan subscribe If you want to
listen to it.
There is a three minute podcastevery day as well.
The other interestingnewsletter that I read as well
(32:30):
is from Stephen Goldstein fromAmplified Media.
It's called the Thought Letter.
Stephen does some reallyinteresting, insightful thoughts
about the podcast industry.
It's just more voices, morepeople thinking about different
angles that sometimes you don'tthink about.
It's not aimed at the technical, it's not aimed at the
corporate, it is aimed at thepeople who we hope listen to
(32:52):
this show.
Independent podcast creatorsbrilliant.
And the last one or two that I'drecommend.
The future of Podcasting by ourfriends Daniel J Lewis and Dave
Jackson.
Highly recommend listening tothat.
They're looking at some of thenew podcasting 2.0 stuff, but
again, they don't go into geekytech speak.
(33:12):
They keep it pretty high level.
Really pleased to say, daveJackson will be a guest on this
show as well in the coming weeksYay.
And the last one, claire, I'dlike to recommend is a website
resource.
It's called podcasting2.org.
It's by James Cridland andDaniel J Lurse.
Now Claire did an amazing show,which was podcasting2.org.
(33:34):
In practice, and for anyonewho's listened to that show, if
you then want to read about someof the tags that Claire
mentioned, I highly recommendgoing there.
It's maintained and updated ona regular basis, so we'll always
have the latest informationabout what's going on with
podcasting 2.0.
And again, just if you want tolearn more about how to use
(33:56):
these things and you want to getfurther down the rabbit hole,
great results.
Claire Waite Brown (34:01):
It is.
I actually refer to it inpodcasting 2.0.
In practice, it's also the goodplace to go to look at the
hosting companies and the appsand check out which features
they support.
Sam Sethi (34:16):
Strangely, TrueFans supports them all.
Claire Waite Brown (34:19):
Yeah, TrueF supports them all.
Yeah, True Fans is at the top.
So what about out and about inthe big wide world, Sam?
Have you got anything thatmight be of interest to our
independent podcasty listeners?
Sam Sethi (34:32):
Yeah, one person I spoke to this week is John
Savage in South Africa.
He's the co-founder of apodcasting hub called Amped.
Amped is a free resource.
I mean, I wish there were moreof them around the world.
What John and his co-founderdid was set up a building in
downtown Cape Town, I believe,and they invite podcasters.
(34:57):
Some are experienced, some arenew.
They set up all the equipment,they have all the studios, they
have everything available foryou Great, great resource.
They've given that for free andit's been brand sponsored, but
sadly, one of the brands haspulled out and they need a
little bit of financial help toget through the next few months.
And so, as an independentpodcast creator themselves, you
(35:19):
know, and the way that they'rehelping people, we decided to
have a little interview withJohn.
We did this for Pod News WeeklyReview, but we wanted to also
put a clip here so that youmight want to be able to hear
what John's doing, why he needsthe help and if you can, please,
please, help him.
If you want to hear the fullinterview, of course you can
hear that.
Jon Savage (35:43):
So Amt is my baby right In a few lifetimes ago I
was a rock star and I was in aband that toured the world for
six years and one of the thingsI really saw in first world
countries is the amount ofinfrastructure and support you
get in the creative space.
But back home in Africa it'sreally different and it's
hardcore like being a creator,being a music artist, being a
(36:04):
podcaster.
So we had this idea to see ifwe could build an ecosystem for
essentially musicians and webuilt this huge space.
It's got like world-classrecording studios, got live
event space.
It's got all this stuff andit's free.
But very shortly, like a year in, it moved into a podcasting
space very, very quickly andwe've been in for six years.
(36:26):
We've never applied for funding, we've never needed any help.
We have a community of 15,000.
We record over 200 episodesthere a month of podcasters.
We have five podcasting studiosand a music studio and a
YouTubing studios, video andaudio, both cameras in every
room, full crew and it'scompletely free for the creator
economy.
The biggest podcasters, thesmallest podcasters and people
(36:49):
have just walked off the streetsaying I don't want a podcaster,
but I want to make one.
They all have a home at Amped.
We have master classes,networking sessions between
corporates and podcasters andreally it's a very rich, amazing
environment.
Sam Sethi (37:03):
We have hot desk space in there, free internet
and, given the fact that you'veset this up, it's free for
everybody.
What's the current state ofplay, then?
Jon Savage (37:16):
We're in trouble.
We're doing like thegovernment's work here.
It's impact work and it'sbuilding a community.
But we've never applied for anyfunding, we've never been given
anything, but we've just, fromday one, we've had brands come
to us and support because theywant to support the creator
industry in Africa and supportwhat we're doing, and do little
deals with us and sometimes twoyear deals and three year deals,
and so we've never reallyworried as long as the overheads
were covered and the communityhas been thriving.
(37:39):
We've hit a snag because theoverheads for the space, as you
can imagine, is quite high.
The building is big, the gearis amazing, there's 13 staff and
our latest client we'reactually two years into a
three-year partnership deal.
They restructured at the lastminute and the funding just got
pulled immediately.
And even though we've actuallygot a line of brands who want to
(37:59):
work with us, we all know thatbrands don't move quickly.
So we've got like this three tofour month window where we're
going to be forced to close downvery, very shortly if we can't
actually just get through thenext few months.
So we're really like putting anappeal out to anyone interested
in investing in the creatoreconomy, wanting to support.
We've just launched a backerbuddy crowdfunding site.
(38:20):
Anyone who wants to just helpget us through these next three,
four months and keep thelongevity of AMP running this
next three, four months and keepthe longevity of AMP running.
Sam Sethi (38:34):
That was John Savage, and the URL to go and help him
is backabuddycoza forward slashcampaign, forward slash, save.
Dash AMPED A-N-P-D dash studios, and we will have it in the
show notes as well.
Brilliant, thank you, andthat's it for this week.
Our audio is recorded andedited using Riverside and we're
hosted by Buzzsprout.
Claire Waite Brown (38:50):
You can support this show by streaming
sats from your True Fans walletor leave us a super comment or,
better still, become a monthlysupporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (39:01):
If you'd like to advertise or sponsor this show,
please email sam at truefansfmfor further details.
Claire Waite Brown (39:07):
You can find out more about how to use the
features of the True Fansplatform by listening to our
sister podcast Fan Zone.
And if you're keen to learnmore about Podcasting 2.0, as
Sam mentioned earlier, do pleasecheck out my course-based
podcast called Podcasting 2.0 inPractice.
Don't forget, you can keeplistening to hear more from this
(39:32):
episode's featured creator.
Clayton M Coke (39:37):
For example, jo Soley, and she specializes in
numerology, but numerology interms of business, basically,
you have a number and thatnumber dictates how you move
through business and you coupleit with things like Feng Shui
and stuff like that.
Now, that's not my normal bagI've spent my life as being Mr
(39:58):
Cynical but it was very, veryinteresting because it was an
alternative business.
And how do you make a businessout of something that you love
and you believe in?
We had somebody who approachedus and on those rare occasions
he said, oh, I'm a stuntman.
I thought, yes, we have got tohave this, you know.
(40:18):
And that was a fantastic showbecause it was an Australian
gentleman who basically, hadmoved from Australia to the US
and started his work as astuntman.
He'd been dreaming of it sincehe was a kid.
It was a fantastic episode, oneof my favourites.
Claire Waite Brown (40:35):
What's your kind of set up with regards to
platforms?
With regards to recording andediting, is that something you
do yourself?
What kind of tools do you like?
Clayton M Coke (40:47):
Oh, you see because I'm a secret technical
guy.
When I first had my podcast andI had a review with Neil Veglio
, he sort of said you know yousound good, but the quality
really isn't up to it.
And I'm thinking, yeah, thequality isn't up to it.
This is not what I'm used tohearing.
But I should say how I recordfirst, and then you can get an
(41:08):
idea as to why that might nothappen.
My first initial podcast wasstuck in a room with two
microphones and the room wasprobably sounding like the
Albert Hall, yeah, and I reallydidn't do any treatment or
whatever it is, because I justput it out there.
But now I record with aPodTrack P4, and basically that
(41:30):
allows me to record four peoplein half decent quality, but it
also allows me to recordremotely.
So suppose I've got threepeople in a room and one person
that wants to dial in fromAustralia.
They can dial in and beconnected up and we can hear
them without hearing that radiothing where he goes.
Could you turn your radio downplease?
So once that's been recorded,it then gets put onto one of
(41:52):
these SD cards.
So the SD card then basicallygoes into the computer and I use
a software called Reaper.
Because I've come from more of amusical background, reaper's
really helpful insofar as I'mused to it as a software.
In that respect, don't get mewrong, it took a while to learn
it, but once you've learned itit is incredibly, incredibly
(42:14):
powerful and allows you to dolots of stuff.
Lots of macros, meaning itallows you to do one, two, three
different things in one fellswoop.
But it does take a little whileto master.
But once you get the basicsdown, you can get your head
around it pretty quickly.
So I do all the jiggery-pokeryin there, and then what I tend
to do is to then add othersoftware in order to clean it up
(42:37):
.
Sometimes you get pops, you getcrackles, sometimes you hear a
next door neighbor's dog outthere, and so on and so forth.
So I use the iZotope suite todo that, and iZotope Elements is
usually about on sale.
It's about 49 quid, $49, 49euros, and that's the best time
to get it.
(42:58):
But it allows you to havesoftware that can mess about
with the vocals, clean that up,any kind of hum, any kind of
stuff that would ultimately makeyour recording sound not as
quickly as it does, and becausea lot of it's using AI now.
You can get pretty good resultswith just one click.
I look at it, that you are creating a document
that will exist for many yearsto come.
Sam Sethi (00:12):
So every podcast that you do in 50 years time, if
it's stored properly, somebodywill be able to find that
creators set the value, usersdetermine whether they want to
pay that value or change it, andthen we look at what the final
value that's been agreed andthat's what we take from your
budget.
Jon Savage (00:31):
And it's completely free for the creator economy.
The biggest podcast is thesmallest podcast and people have
just walked off the streetsaying I don't want a podcast,
but I want to make one.
They all have a home at Amt.
Sam Sethi (00:43):
We need to also highlight independent podcast
creators and give them thespotlight, and I hope this show
is going to be that.
Claire Waite Brown (00:52):
Welcome to Creators from True Fans.
I'm independent podcaster,claire Waite-Brown.
Sam Sethi (00:59):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Fans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:01):
Each episode , we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:10):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the True Fansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:19):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:25):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world.
That could be a benefit toindependent creators.
Claire Waite Brown (01:31):
Hi Claire, Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:34):
I'm very good.
Yes, heat waves, heat waves arecoming.
So, yes, we won't be so goodafter that, but that's the
struggle of the Brits Right thisweek, our featured podcast is
Cashflow Show from Clayton MCoke, which you can find
featured at the top of the TrueFans homepage and in the Podcast
we're Loving list.
You'll find that on thehomepage as well.
Claire Waite Brown (01:56):
Yeah, and I chatted with Clayton, so here's
my interview.
Hi, clayton, how are you?
Clayton M Coke (02:02):
I'm very well.
Thank you, claire, very well.
Claire Waite Brown (02:05):
Brilliant.
Start by telling me, please,the name of your show and what
it's all about.
Clayton M Coke (02:11):
Yes, it's the Cashflow Show podcast, and we
are a business andentrepreneurship podcast which
basically does one of two things.
In the first instance, we dolong form interviews with a
business owner, usually afounder or CEO.
We confine it to that.
We ask them about how they gotstarted in business, their
business journey, the mistakesthat they made and the successes
(02:35):
that they've had, Along withother personal questions in
relation to what kind of musicthey like, what kind of books
they like and what kind ofmovies they like.
Claire Waite Brown (02:44):
Brilliant, so you're getting to know the
person as well.
Clayton M Coke (02:48):
Yes, I think that's really important because
I wanted it to be for businesspeople to see somebody and say
I'd like to work with them, youlike Star Wars, I like Star Wars
, you like drinking, I likedrinking.
Not to say they're together,but the same principle applies,
yeah, but also we do shorterform stuff, which is basically
shorter interviews which aremore in the moment.
(03:10):
So if something is happeningtoday so, for example, hsbc are
saying to people you have to getback into the office, so we may
have a person who'sknowledgeable in office space,
in the legalities of it, etc.
Etc.
And that would make for a shortform 20 minute interview that
we put up in order to keep pacewith what's happening in the
(03:31):
business world.
Claire Waite Brown (03:32):
Yeah, oh, brilliant, I understand when and
why did you start the podcast.
Clayton M Coke (03:39):
I have my original career, which is in law
.
I tried to move away from doingpure law and I found an area of
law that I wanted to specializein that I thought I could make
a business out of.
So I decided on debt recoveryand late payments because I felt
that a lot of businesses,especially SME business small
(04:00):
and medium enterprises they werein a position where there was
nobody to fight for them.
They would go and say, dobusiness with a company like
Sony or KPMG, a big company, abig name but nobody was fighting
for them when they couldn't getpaid.
So, for example, you're agraphic designer, you do a
design for, say, spotify, and nohate to Spotify, I don't want
(04:23):
you to come and cancel mysubscriptions or anything like
that.
So, but to ring up Spotify andno hate to Spotify, I don't want
you to come and cancel mysubscriptions or anything like
that.
So, but to ring up Spotify andget your money.
Or to ring up Sony and get yourmoney.
It's it's a difficult processbecause you've tried to build
that relationship, but now youhave to say please, sir, can I
have some more?
Which kind of weakens yourbargaining position.
Now I, what I did, is toeffectively become a mediator
(04:46):
between the two parties, so Iwould be able to have the
knowledge and the wherewithal toget inside Sony or get into the
accounts department and findout where my client's payment's
gone.
So that was the first bit.
But the real reason was becauseI used to go to networking
events and what happened was Iwould talk to people and they
would say oh, debt recovery, I'mjust going to the loo and
(05:12):
they'd never come back.
So I tried different clothes, Itried different aftershave, I
tried a few different things, Itried going in disguise, but it
didn't work.
So I realized that I neededsomething in order to be able to
position me as anon-threatening person, but also
somebody that could providevalue to a business.
(05:34):
I'd heard of this thing calledpodcasting and, to be fair, I'd
had a background in audiobecause I used to be in bands
and record ourselves and go intothe studio.
So I roughly knew how it worked.
But I'd never done a sort ofpure audio podcast recording
voice, and they're two differentthings, really Similar but not
(05:54):
the same.
So I then decided this is whatI'm going to do I'm going to
basically set up this podcast.
So I set up a podcast and I gota couple of people in and I
said I'm going to do a podcast.
Do you want to be on it?
And they said what's a podcast?
So I said, well, you talk intothe microphone and you put it on
the internet and people get tohear it.
(06:14):
But I didn't know what I wasdoing either, didn't have a clue
.
So I put it on SoundCloud fortwo years and nothing happened.
And then I said why is nothinghappening here?
So then I started to get intothese blogs and realized I
needed to switch.
So I switched to Anchor beforeAnchor was purchased by Spotify.
(06:35):
So Anchor was the way ofgetting everybody onto a free
platform and that worked reallywell.
But I then found that you couldnever check your analytics
Right.
Spotify, the podcast, hasanalytics, but when it was in
its Anchor format it didn't haveit.
So then I basically left Anchorand then I joined Transistor
(06:57):
and they were building theirbusiness.
But what I liked about them isthat they gave you a certain
amount of support that you couldnever get from trying to dial
into a big company like Spotify.
So if you made a query,somebody was going to get back
to you.
So that then started my journey, and that journey is continuing
(07:17):
now, brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (07:19):
You said you interview founders.
How do you choose who to have?
Clayton M Coke (07:25):
on your show.
Contentious point.
This is a contentious pointbecause you can only usually get
onto the show by invitation,sometimes by recommendation, but
I don't want to interview 20million lawyers, but I want
people who have interestingbusinesses, people who have made
(07:48):
a business out of somethingthat might be quite left field
or off kilter.
Claire Waite Brown (07:53):
So it's not a dry, boring business podcast
then Clayton is it?
Clayton M Coke (07:58):
I'm a serious person by nature, but the
reality of it is is that whenyou're presenting business
nature, but the reality of it isis that when you're presenting
business, most people'sbusinesses are from some form of
passion.
They usually believe insomething, and what I do is I
pick out people who I believehave passion.
Now, one of the things about meis that I do not do pre
(08:20):
interviews, so I'm on a tightwire as to I could invite this
person onto the show and theycould sit there and go.
Yes, no, could be.
It could be a complete,unmitigated disaster.
But the fact is, if you aresufficiently interested in your
project or whatever, thatenthusiasm will come through.
(08:41):
So that helps me to be able topick the right guests, who I
feel are people that could carrythe show.
I don't want people to say I'mhere to promote my book, I'm
here to promote my book.
I'm here to promote my book.
If you want to sponsor anepisode that will be X amount of
pounds, please in advance.
However, if you are chosen,very good.
However, if you are chosen,it's because I believe in what
(09:05):
you do and I want to work withyou in promoting that and
sharing that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How do you fit this intime-wise with you?
Know everything else you'redoing.
Clayton M Coke (09:22):
The question is, how do you stop podcasting
taking over your life?
Because when you think ofyou've got to read the forums,
you then basically got to readall the newsletters.
It's one of those things thatonce you go down the rabbit hole
, it can really take up a lot oftime.
And it does take quite a bit oftime.
But I look at it that you arecreating a document that will
(09:44):
exist for many years to come.
So every podcast that you do in50 years time, if it's stored
properly, somebody will be ableto find that.
Claire Waite Brown (09:53):
Yeah.
Clayton M Coke (09:54):
So, yeah, it does take up a long time, a lot
of time, I should say.
But it also is something thatthe more tools that you use, the
easier it becomes.
For example, when it comes toRiverside, I have to give them a
plug because theirtranscription situation changed
the game for me.
Before I had to literally gothrough the whole thing, but now
(10:16):
with the transcription, yeah, Ican just basically be in a
scenario where ultimately gotthat transcription, take it up
into ChatGPT or anything else,and basically it spits out
everything that I need and ifyou give it the right prompts
and that the prompts areincredibly important then you
(10:37):
will get the correct result.
Claire Waite Brown (10:39):
We've seen them since starting podcasting.
We've seen tools advance soquickly to help us save time,
haven't we?
Of course, yeah, now tell me,clayton, what is one thing that
frustrates you about podcastingor the podcasting world.
Clayton M Coke (10:59):
The low valuation that is placed on the
podcasting craft.
I am a bit of a rabble rouserand a troublemaker because I
insist that podcasters shouldget paid for their work.
Now I'm in a very fortunateposition that because I do a
business podcast, I get a lot ofbusiness people approaching me
(11:22):
at some point, or agencies or PRpeople approaching me saying
we've got this chap, he's formedthree companies, they're seven
figures company, he's been sosuccessful and he'd like to be
on your show.
But ultimately this PR iscontacting as many people as
possible, Not a problem.
My difficulty is this is thatthat PR person is getting paid
(11:47):
for their work and they shouldbe paid for their work.
But what I notice in thepodcasting world is that it's
just accepted that you should dogood quality work with
excellent editing.
And now we're into the videorealm good quality video but
accept no payment or expect nopayment in return, and I think
(12:12):
that is absolutely shocking.
That should not be the default.
It should not be the de factoposition.
Claire Waite Brown (12:19):
So would you charge that guest then?
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Clayton M Coke (12:23):
Yeah, I am a person.
I like to see myself as a kindperson and a giving person, and
that's fundamentally me as aperson.
But I do feel that if you'vecreated three so-called seven
figure companies, you've got acouple of quid down the back of
your sofa.
Claire Waite Brown (12:42):
You could share it out a little bit,
couldn't?
Clayton M Coke (12:44):
you?
Yeah, you could share it out.
Ultimately, the bottom line isthat if you're a business and
you want me to promote youbecause I'm a part of your
promotional code, then once Ithen basically start to validate
your seven-figure businesses,then why shouldn't I be paid for
that?
And I now say what's yourbudget?
I'd love to have you on.
(13:04):
Pay for that.
And I now say what's yourbudget?
I'd love to have you on.
You seem like a very nice chapor chapess.
What is your budget?
Because you must have a budget.
You're running a business, Irun a business.
Claire Waite Brown (13:13):
Yeah, perfect.
What about your listeners?
Do you find that they interactwith?
Clayton M Coke (13:22):
you.
Now this is really weird.
I don't get much communicationvia, say, instagram or Twitter.
I get most people trying tosell me stuff.
That's most of thecommunication I get.
However, in real life, when Imeet people say, oh, I've
listened to your show, blah,blah, blah and I'm thinking,
have you?
(13:42):
And I'm flattered by that.
Anybody that spends 20 minuteslistening to me or spends an
hour giving me their time and asyou get older, you realize how
precious time is.
Anybody who gives me that time.
I'm grateful and I'm very, veryappreciative of it.
But most people tell me thatthey like what I do in person as
(14:03):
opposed to in writing.
It's nice, but I'd love morepeople to subscribe and put
things in writing because thathelps me to share that message
even further.
Claire Waite Brown (14:13):
Completely agree and I think that's another
one of those sticking pointswithin podcasting currently that
it's not much of a two-wayrelationship.
Clayton M Coke (14:23):
No, because I think, unless you're famous or
you're deemed famous, you don'tget the fan adulation that, say,
the Joe Rogans or the MelRobbins or the Stephen Bartletts
might get.
Claire Waite Brown (14:36):
Now, True Fans is a podcasting 2.0
listening device.
What do you know aboutpodcasting 2.0?
Clayton M Coke (14:47):
I know the fact that it's a standard, or you're
trying to promote it as standard, but I also know that certain
hosts work within that and I getthat transistor being one of
them because I'm on there.
But apart from that, I actuallyreally don't know that much
about it.
I know that it exists, I knowwhat it's trying to do, but I've
never done a deep dive into it.
Claire Waite Brown (15:07):
Yeah, we've been talking about interacting,
and one of the features is, insome apps they're called boosts
and in True Fans they're calledcomments, where your listeners
can comment in the actual app onthe actual episode that they're
listening to.
So we'd like to encourage morepeople to do that, because then
we know you're out there.
Clayton M Coke (15:29):
Exactly Because it's really important.
That's why radios havephone-ins and they gauge
listener response and onaudience.
But I think people look at apodcast as, oh, I've listened to
it, now, I've done my job, I'moff, not realizing that you need
their sustained input to makeit happen.
And you're saying thatbasically, the TrueFans and the
(15:49):
2.0 allows and facilitates forthat.
Claire Waite Brown (15:53):
Yeah, exactly.
In some of them you need toattach a micropayment to your
comment.
In TrueFans you can do acomment without attaching a
payment and you can attach apayment, if you choose to, of
whatever you want.
I'll just talk to the listenersListeners of Clayton's show
write some comments so he knowsyou're out there in the True
(16:14):
Fans app.
Clayton M Coke (16:16):
Thank you, that'd be very, very kind.
Claire Waite Brown (16:19):
When I do my research into the shows and the
people that I interview onCreators, I stream a very small
amount of micropayment to thatshow.
So I have been streaming fivesats per minute to your show on
True Fans Right.
So when you go to True Fans andif you haven't already claimed
(16:41):
your show, you can claim yourshow by using your email in your
RSS feed and then you'll have avery, very small monetary
surprise in your true fanswallet.
Clayton M Coke (16:51):
Well, do you know something?
That's a beautiful way of doingthings because it's a great,
great motivator.
Because it's hard to staySomebody mentioned this at the
podcast show how do you staymotivated?
Because it's a very long andlonely road and that's why I
push for the monetary aspect ofit, because even if you, as a
podcaster, got 50 quid for eachpodcast that you do, it would be
(17:14):
something.
Claire Waite Brown (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's a token of value as wellfor you, isn't it?
The money?
Money's nice, but it's also atoken of appreciation between
listener and podcaster.
Listen clayton.
Thank you so much for this chat.
How can people connect with you?
Clayton M Coke (17:32):
they can connect with me in one of many ways,
but the first way that they canstart off with is clayton m coke
on linkedin.
There's onlyton M Coke there,so it is going to be as easy.
If you look up the picture ofthe podcast, then you'll find me
pretty much quite easily.
You can also find us onInstagram the Cashflow Show I
(17:55):
think it might be the CashflowShow Podcast, I can't work out
which one or on Twitter theCashflow Show as well, but if
you type on the Cashflow Show toeither one, you'll see my
smiling face to welcome you tosubscribe and follow, and that's
something that we wouldencourage people to do.
We'd love to get moresubscribers and love to get more
(18:15):
followers and more commentators, and hopefully we can do that.
Claire Waite Brown (18:20):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much, Clayton.
I've had a super time.
Clayton M Coke (18:24):
Well, thank you, it's been absolutely wonderful
and I appreciate you reachingout and sharing the opportunity
of sharing your platform.
Claire Waite Brown (18:30):
Thank you.
Sam Sethi (18:32):
You can hear more from that interview at the end
of the episode of Creators,where Clayton talks about some
of the interesting guests he'sfeatured and the software,
hardware and processes he usesto get his show made.
Claire Waite Brown (18:46):
If you'd like to chat with us about your
independent podcast or yourmusic, send a comment or super
comment in True Fans to anyCreators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on thecomments tab.
Clayton mentioned in thatinterview that he hears good
things about his show frompeople he happens to meet.
(19:07):
So when he meets people in reallife then he gets the feedback,
but not through unsolicitedmeans such as reviews, messages
or comments.
So I gave the Cashflow show asuper comment in True Fans and
we spoke about comments on thatinterview.
As you know and I would justlike to encourage any listeners
(19:30):
to do the same for any of theshows that they really enjoy and
value you have the power tomake a podcaster feel
appreciated and, in turn, makethem very happy.
Sam Sethi (19:42):
If you recall I mean most of us have had this in our
time right when you've heard aradio show where someone's read
out a birthday request and itmay be your own that you know
your parents might have sent in,and the joy you feel when you
hear that back.
So I think when people start togive podcasters commentary back
(20:02):
, it's nice to know you're notjust talking to yourself down a
microphone.
That's lovely.
You know from your downloadsyou've probably got an audience,
but it's nice to hear from thataudience.
But also, I think the otherside of it is when you have left
a comment and the creator ofthe podcast actually reads it
out.
You feel you've got a closerrelationship between each other
(20:24):
then and it's an interactivityand I always think it's a great
way for people to build a deeperrelationship with the creator.
Claire Waite Brown (20:32):
Absolutely.
I had an email today, sam,actually from a Creativity Found
listener, and they said that myshow had encouraged them in the
early stages of starting somecreative workshops and starting
a creative business and you knowit was absolutely filled my
(20:52):
heart.
So it is really lovely to getsome feedback and comments, in
whichever form you make them.
Sam Sethi (20:59):
Indeed.
Now we've been collecting thequestions that listeners have
sent into us.
Claire, talking ofinteractivity, which question
have you?
Claire Waite Brown (21:07):
explain to me what the funding tag is how I
, as a podcaster, can use it,how listeners can use it as well
(21:30):
.
Sam Sethi (21:31):
The funding tag is a great way to get monetization
back to your podcast from yourfan base.
Now the funding tag was part ofthe podcasting 2.0 extensions
to RSS and so many hostsBuzzsprout, our hosts and others
like RSScom and Blueberry allowyou, as a creator, to turn on
(21:53):
your funding tag.
Now the funding tag fieldallows you to have a simple URL
that points to a place where youcan pay monies to the creator.
So I think with your podcast,Claire, you've used Buy Me A
Coffee, you may have usedPatreon, so there are multiple
different places that you couldput a URL for the funding tag
(22:16):
into your RSS feed and then appslike TrueFounds will read that
funding tag and say, ah, Clairesays if you would like to
support Creativity Found, pleaseclick on this link or this icon
in TrueFans and we will open upthat page where you might say
you can give me one pound amonth, five pounds, ten pounds,
whatever the amount you want,and that's a lovely way of doing
(22:38):
it and that's been thetraditional way so far.
Pocket Casts included it as aupdate recently and I hope all
the podcasting apps actually useit because you know the more
ways that people can give backto independent podcast creators
that don't rely on advertising,then the better.
I think it is.
So in true fans, we allow youto put you know your RSS feed
(23:03):
with a funding tag and we willhonor whatever link you have.
Many podcasts don't have anexternal URL link and when we
find that, what we do is we turnon the TrueFans funding tag
option.
So if you go to a podcast andyou see the funding tag in
TrueFounds, which is a hand witha little heart above it, you
(23:25):
click on it and it'll pop up abox which will give you $1, $3,
$5, $10.
If you're trading in dollars orpounds, or euros or Swedish
krona, you choose the amountthat you want to give that
creator per month and we willtake that amount out of your
wallet and give it to thatcreator.
(23:45):
Now we've done one extra thingin TrueFans, as always.
For example, if you were insomething like Patreon, you
could pay five pounds a monthand, whether they produced a new
episode or not, your fivepounds will be given to them.
Now we decided that that wasn'treally fair.
If they're not giving you newcontent, why should you keep
(24:07):
giving them money?
So in True Fans, you might put.
Five pound a month is my budgetand then every time a new
episode is delivered, apercentage of that five pounds
is given to the creator, andwhen that full five pounds is
taken as in used up, then nomore money is given to that
(24:28):
creator until the next monthwhen that five pounds is
automatically refreshed fromyour wallet.
Claire Waite Brown (24:35):
Yeah, I understand that and I understand
the budget of it, that youtherefore will not spend over
five pounds.
Where does the percentage comefrom?
Sam Sethi (24:47):
so this is where we have to educate creators and
true fans to set the play value.
So you set the amount as a.
You might say it's 1p perminute or 100 sats per minute.
But you, as the creator, say Iwould love you to give me this
amount of money per minute.
We multiply that by the totaltime of the episode and that
(25:11):
creates a value that the creatorhas for each episode.
Now that's an offer value.
So, for example, let's say oneof your shows, claire, you said
I want to set it at 10p a minuteand it's a one hour show, so
that's six pounds.
Now I go wow, no, sorry, claire, that's a bit much.
(25:31):
I'm going to give you 5p aminute or I'm going to give you
50 sats per minute, and werecalculate that because the
listener always has the finalsay in the amount they pay.
But that calculated amount isthen the total value that we
take from your funding tagbudget.
So if the total value of thatepisode was, for example, 50p,
(25:56):
then we would take 50p from that£5 budget and then the next day
drops and we would maybe takeanother 50p and another 50p, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera,until that £5 was exhausted.
And then if in the month therewas more episodes but you had no
more budget, then we wouldn'ttake any more money from your
(26:16):
wallet and then the next month,when it refreshed, we would
start again.
So, yes, creators set the value.
Claire Waite Brown (26:23):
Users determine whether they want to
pay that value or change it, andthen we look at what the final
value that's been agreed andthat's what we take from your
budget we actually talk aboutthis from the listeners point of
view on Fan Zone, and so I willdirect listeners to episode 11
(26:43):
on stream icon and also episode25, which is all about the
funding tag.
So if you want to explore thatsome more, listen to Fan Zone.
I've got some pictures in thechapters that show you how to do
the things so you can explorethat further.
Thank you for that, sam.
Sam Sethi (27:00):
Moving on to the fan box.
Have we heard from any of ourlisteners this week, Claire,
since the last episode?
Claire Waite Brown (27:05):
We sure have .
So I've got quite a few here,Excellent, so buckle up.
We have heard from the lateBloomer actor and he has said it
was great to hear from anotherindie podcaster and how they're
learning from true fans.
Thank you very much.
We actually haven't forgottenyou, David.
(27:28):
We have done an interview withthe Late Bloomer actor and it
will appear in a future episodeof Creators.
Just wanted to let David knowthat From Seth, loving how
you're highlighting podcastersand doing more than just all
True Fans stuff.
Sam Sethi (27:45):
Yes, this is a show within True Fans and, yes, we
would like to highlight some ofthe features and functions, but
you and I agreed, claire, whenwe met in Birmingham at
UniPodFest, that we need to alsohighlight independent podcast
creators and give them thespotlight, and I hope this show
is going to be that yeah, super.
Claire Waite Brown (28:05):
Martin linderskog.
Okay, he left us a commenttalking about my interview a
couple of episodes ago withjoanna pr neves and
exhibitionistas podcast and hesaid chapter feature could be
used for this podcast on artvisualising the art with words
and chapters images.
(28:26):
He also said testing the iOSapp small row of ducks.
So the small row of ducks is222 SATS.
Thank you very much for that,Martin, and I hope he's enjoying
testing the app.
Sam Sethi (28:39):
Well, testing the app .
Now it's gone live, Claire.
Now it's actually in the AppStore, so version 1.0 is now
live.
We will update that versionwith some more features in the
coming weeks Because you knowthe way that Apple works is you
have to really pass their test,get into the store, and that was
our first critical and now wewant to go and tweak a few
(29:02):
features and functions so thatit works a little bit faster.
But yeah, we're very happy.
Claire Waite Brown (29:07):
Yeah, brilliant, I've been enjoying it
as well.
Sam Sethi (29:09):
Thank you.
Claire Waite Brown (29:10):
I wanted to talk as well.
I've heard some lovely commentsin my emails.
Jenica Sadwani she hosts a showcalled Multispective and she
approached me regarding atrailer swap for Creativity
Found, which we are going to dobecause I listened to her show
and liked it very much.
And in our communications Isuggested she take a look at
(29:30):
True Fans and she wrote backsaying I created an account with
True Fans.
It's such an awesome platform,so great for discovering
podcasts, and it was really easyto claim my podcast.
The platform is a user-friendly, one-stop blend of good pods
and Patreon.
Sam Sethi (29:49):
She's got it.
Wow, very well done, jenica.
Thank you.
Yes, that's where we're aimingfor.
We're trying to provide creatorportals.
You, yes, that's where we'reaiming for.
We're trying to providecreative portals, as I think is
the term I'm using, the idea ofbeing able to, yes, have your
podcast, but eventually, whatwe'd love people to do is start
to write their blogs there, toput their merchandise, to put
(30:10):
event listings, if they havethem, and create it as your
central point yeah, that'sbrilliant also, and Andrea
Koskaj from Eurowaves got intouch about last week's episode
featuring Fariba and OnSpecpodcast and Andrea said Claire,
I loved this interview andoverall the episode.
Claire Waite Brown (30:31):
I'll be featuring it in Eurowaves this
week.
Sam Sethi (30:34):
Nice.
Claire Waite Brown (30:35):
And lo and behold, Andrea does say lovely
things about creators in herlatest Eurowaves blog that I've
just received.
So thank you so much, Andrea.
For those who don't know,Eurowaves is a blog on Substack
with an email newsletter thatspecifically focuses on European
podcasting, and Andrea'sEurosounds Google group is
(30:58):
actually where I first metFariba.
While I was looking at this, Ithought there's some other
podcast blogs that I subscribeto that other people might be
interested in.
Is it okay if I mention acouple of those Sam?
Sam Sethi (31:12):
Absolutely no.
We're here to promote everybodywithin the community.
Claire Waite Brown (31:16):
Cool, so one that our listeners might be
interested in is Earworthy fromFrank.
Sam Sethi (31:23):
Rassiopi.
Claire Waite Brown (31:24):
Very nice.
Thank you.
I'll leave that one with you.
Who is the kindred spirit, sam,since he showcases independent
podcasts.
He recently wrote a blog aboutme, which was nice, in which he
talked about creativity, foundpodcasting 2.0 in practice and
creators.
Thank you so much, frank.
Plus, frank is going to be afuture guest on this show to
(31:47):
tell us more about Earworthy.
Sam Sethi (31:49):
Excellent.
Claire Waite Brown (31:50):
Other blogs I can recommend include Podcast
Newsletter from Lauren Purcellof Tink Media and the podcast
Critic Newsletter from GreatPods Sam.
Are there any other podcastblogs or newsletters that you
recommend?
Sam Sethi (32:07):
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't recommend
James Cridland's Daily Pod News,which is the go-to of the whole
industry.
I guess James puts it out everyday I don't know how he does it
, but he does every day.
So if you want to read it, youcan subscribe If you want to
listen to it.
There is a three minute podcastevery day as well.
The other interestingnewsletter that I read as well
(32:30):
is from Stephen Goldstein fromAmplified Media.
It's called the Thought Letter.
Stephen does some reallyinteresting, insightful thoughts
about the podcast industry.
It's just more voices, morepeople thinking about different
angles that sometimes you don'tthink about.
It's not aimed at the technical, it's not aimed at the
corporate, it is aimed at thepeople who we hope listen to
(32:52):
this show.
Independent podcast creatorsbrilliant.
And the last one or two that I'drecommend.
The future of Podcasting by ourfriends Daniel J Lewis and Dave
Jackson.
Highly recommend listening tothat.
They're looking at some of thenew podcasting 2.0 stuff, but
again, they don't go into geekytech speak.
(33:12):
They keep it pretty high level.
Really pleased to say, daveJackson will be a guest on this
show as well in the coming weeksYay.
And the last one, claire, I'dlike to recommend is a website
resource.
It's called podcasting2.org.
It's by James Cridland andDaniel J Lurse.
Now Claire did an amazing show,which was podcasting2.org.
(33:34):
In practice, and for anyonewho's listened to that show, if
you then want to read about someof the tags that Claire
mentioned, I highly recommendgoing there.
It's maintained and updated ona regular basis, so we'll always
have the latest informationabout what's going on with
podcasting 2.0.
And again, just if you want tolearn more about how to use
(33:56):
these things and you want to getfurther down the rabbit hole,
great results.
Claire Waite Brown (34:01):
It is.
I actually refer to it inpodcasting 2.0.
In practice, it's also the goodplace to go to look at the
hosting companies and the appsand check out which features
they support.
Sam Sethi (34:16):
Strangely, TrueFans supports them all.
Claire Waite Brown (34:19):
Yeah, TrueF supports them all.
Yeah, True Fans is at the top.
So what about out and about inthe big wide world, Sam?
Have you got anything thatmight be of interest to our
independent podcasty listeners?
Sam Sethi (34:32):
Yeah, one person I spoke to this week is John
Savage in South Africa.
He's the co-founder of apodcasting hub called Amped.
Amped is a free resource.
I mean, I wish there were moreof them around the world.
What John and his co-founderdid was set up a building in
downtown Cape Town, I believe,and they invite podcasters.
(34:57):
Some are experienced, some arenew.
They set up all the equipment,they have all the studios, they
have everything available foryou Great, great resource.
They've given that for free andit's been brand sponsored, but
sadly, one of the brands haspulled out and they need a
little bit of financial help toget through the next few months.
And so, as an independentpodcast creator themselves, you
(35:19):
know, and the way that they'rehelping people, we decided to
have a little interview withJohn.
We did this for Pod News WeeklyReview, but we wanted to also
put a clip here so that youmight want to be able to hear
what John's doing, why he needsthe help and if you can, please,
please, help him.
If you want to hear the fullinterview, of course you can
hear that.
Jon Savage (35:43):
So Amt is my baby right In a few lifetimes ago I
was a rock star and I was in aband that toured the world for
six years and one of the thingsI really saw in first world
countries is the amount ofinfrastructure and support you
get in the creative space.
But back home in Africa it'sreally different and it's
hardcore like being a creator,being a music artist, being a
(36:04):
podcaster.
So we had this idea to see ifwe could build an ecosystem for
essentially musicians and webuilt this huge space.
It's got like world-classrecording studios, got live
event space.
It's got all this stuff andit's free.
But very shortly, like a year in, it moved into a podcasting
space very, very quickly andwe've been in for six years.
(36:26):
We've never applied for funding, we've never needed any help.
We have a community of 15,000.
We record over 200 episodesthere a month of podcasters.
We have five podcasting studiosand a music studio and a
YouTubing studios, video andaudio, both cameras in every
room, full crew and it'scompletely free for the creator
economy.
The biggest podcasters, thesmallest podcasters and people
(36:49):
have just walked off the streetsaying I don't want a podcaster,
but I want to make one.
They all have a home at Amped.
We have master classes,networking sessions between
corporates and podcasters andreally it's a very rich, amazing
environment.
Sam Sethi (37:03):
We have hot desk space in there, free internet
and, given the fact that you'veset this up, it's free for
everybody.
What's the current state ofplay, then?
Jon Savage (37:16):
We're in trouble.
We're doing like thegovernment's work here.
It's impact work and it'sbuilding a community.
But we've never applied for anyfunding, we've never been given
anything, but we've just, fromday one, we've had brands come
to us and support because theywant to support the creator
industry in Africa and supportwhat we're doing, and do little
deals with us and sometimes twoyear deals and three year deals,
and so we've never reallyworried as long as the overheads
were covered and the communityhas been thriving.
(37:39):
We've hit a snag because theoverheads for the space, as you
can imagine, is quite high.
The building is big, the gearis amazing, there's 13 staff and
our latest client we'reactually two years into a
three-year partnership deal.
They restructured at the lastminute and the funding just got
pulled immediately.
And even though we've actuallygot a line of brands who want to
(37:59):
work with us, we all know thatbrands don't move quickly.
So we've got like this three tofour month window where we're
going to be forced to close downvery, very shortly if we can't
actually just get through thenext few months.
So we're really like putting anappeal out to anyone interested
in investing in the creatoreconomy, wanting to support.
We've just launched a backerbuddy crowdfunding site.
(38:20):
Anyone who wants to just helpget us through these next three,
four months and keep thelongevity of AMP running this
next three, four months and keepthe longevity of AMP running.
Sam Sethi (38:34):
That was John Savage, and the URL to go and help him
is backabuddycoza forward slashcampaign, forward slash, save.
Dash AMPED A-N-P-D dash studios, and we will have it in the
show notes as well.
Brilliant, thank you, andthat's it for this week.
Our audio is recorded andedited using Riverside and we're
hosted by Buzzsprout.
Claire Waite Brown (38:50):
You can support this show by streaming
sats from your True Fans walletor leave us a super comment or,
better still, become a monthlysupporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (39:01):
If you'd like to advertise or sponsor this show,
please email sam at truefansfmfor further details.
Claire Waite Brown (39:07):
You can find out more about how to use the
features of the True Fansplatform by listening to our
sister podcast Fan Zone.
And if you're keen to learnmore about Podcasting 2.0, as
Sam mentioned earlier, do pleasecheck out my course-based
podcast called Podcasting 2.0 inPractice.
Don't forget, you can keeplistening to hear more from this
(39:32):
episode's featured creator.
Clayton M Coke (39:37):
For example, jo Soley, and she specializes in
numerology, but numerology interms of business, basically,
you have a number and thatnumber dictates how you move
through business and you coupleit with things like Feng Shui
and stuff like that.
Now, that's not my normal bagI've spent my life as being Mr
(39:58):
Cynical but it was very, veryinteresting because it was an
alternative business.
And how do you make a businessout of something that you love
and you believe in?
We had somebody who approachedus and on those rare occasions
he said, oh, I'm a stuntman.
I thought, yes, we have got tohave this, you know.
(40:18):
And that was a fantastic showbecause it was an Australian
gentleman who basically, hadmoved from Australia to the US
and started his work as astuntman.
He'd been dreaming of it sincehe was a kid.
It was a fantastic episode, oneof my favourites.
Claire Waite Brown (40:35):
What's your kind of set up with regards to
platforms?
With regards to recording andediting, is that something you
do yourself?
What kind of tools do you like?
Clayton M Coke (40:47):
Oh, you see because I'm a secret technical
guy.
When I first had my podcast andI had a review with Neil Veglio
, he sort of said you know yousound good, but the quality
really isn't up to it.
And I'm thinking, yeah, thequality isn't up to it.
This is not what I'm used tohearing.
But I should say how I recordfirst, and then you can get an
(41:08):
idea as to why that might nothappen.
My first initial podcast wasstuck in a room with two
microphones and the room wasprobably sounding like the
Albert Hall, yeah, and I reallydidn't do any treatment or
whatever it is, because I justput it out there.
But now I record with aPodTrack P4, and basically that
(41:30):
allows me to record four peoplein half decent quality, but it
also allows me to recordremotely.
So suppose I've got threepeople in a room and one person
that wants to dial in fromAustralia.
They can dial in and beconnected up and we can hear
them without hearing that radiothing where he goes.
Could you turn your radio downplease?
So once that's been recorded,it then gets put onto one of
(41:52):
these SD cards.
So the SD card then basicallygoes into the computer and I use
a software called Reaper.
Because I've come from more of amusical background, reaper's
really helpful insofar as I'mused to it as a software.
In that respect, don't get mewrong, it took a while to learn
it, but once you've learned itit is incredibly, incredibly
(42:14):
powerful and allows you to dolots of stuff.
Lots of macros, meaning itallows you to do one, two, three
different things in one fellswoop.
But it does take a little whileto master.
But once you get the basicsdown, you can get your head
around it pretty quickly.
So I do all the jiggery-pokeryin there, and then what I tend
to do is to then add othersoftware in order to clean it up
(42:37):
.
Sometimes you get pops, you getcrackles, sometimes you hear a
next door neighbor's dog outthere, and so on and so forth.
So I use the iZotope suite todo that, and iZotope Elements is
usually about on sale.
It's about 49 quid, $49, 49euros, and that's the best time
to get it.
(42:58):
But it allows you to havesoftware that can mess about
with the vocals, clean that up,any kind of hum, any kind of
stuff that would ultimately makeyour recording sound not as
quickly as it does, and becausea lot of it's using AI now.
You can get pretty good resultswith just one click.
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