September 8, 2025 • 40 mins
Discoverability and interactivity are significant challenges faced by independent podcasters, as highlighted in this episode's interview with David John Clark of The Late Bloomer Actor podcast, which explores David's creative journey and experiences in podcasting.
In this chat David challenges conventional wisdom about podcast metrics. 'Download numbers do not mean they are listeners', he points out, sharing a revealing anecdote about a TikTok video with 746 plays but only 0.2 seconds average watch time. This stark reality highlights why podcasters need more sophisticated data to truly understand their audience engagement – something platforms like TrueFans are addressing with metrics that measure actual listening time and completion rates.
Sam and Claire also explore the critical importance of your podcast's opening moments, with data suggesting that the first 60 seconds determine whether listeners will return. The advice is clear: avoid meaningless chatter and immediately deliver value.
The episode also unveils TrueFans' new podcast promotion feature, allowing creators to request promotion on other relevant shows – a more targeted and less intrusive alternative to feed drops. This creator-friendly approach gives both requesting and hosting podcasters control over the cross-promotion process, addressing the perennial challenge of discoverability.
Points discussed in this episode include:
- Why some podcasts don't show up on TrueFans – make sure your show is listed at Podcast Index
- How to connect with Creators From TrueFans – we'd love to hear from you
- David John Clark's take on Podcasting 2.0 features
- How TrueFans plans to promote award-winning podcasts
- TrueFans' new podcast promotion feature allows creators to request promotion on other shows
- Upcoming events include London Podcast Festival, Podcast Days in Spain, and various awards opportunities
By providing valuable metrics and features that enhance listener engagement, TrueFans empowers podcasters to better understand their audience and foster meaningful connections. The journey of an independent podcaster is filled with ups and downs, but with the right tools and strategies, creators can navigate these challenges and find success in their podcasting endeavours.
Listen to The Late Bloomer Actor here
Find TrueFans here
Music: How It Is from Ketsa Music
Feedback: TrueFans Support
Read: Creators Blog
Recommendations: Creators Podroll
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David John Clark (00:06):
so if we can make V4V work as simple as the
Spotify system works, but fairerfor the creators, then we'll
see some traction.
Sam Sethi (00:15):
I feel the order will be your featured podcast at the
top, which is a sticky thing,then your latest and then below
that latest episode will be thepromo of the podcast you've
accepted.
You get the money in yourwallet, seven days passes and
then it automatically getsremoved.
But certainly please do notstart talking about your
(00:38):
shopping list or where you wenton holiday.
Claire Waite Brown (00:41):
I tend to think about the politeness it's
very British and the respect forother people.
They're tuning in for thecontent of your podcast, not
your life.
No one cares about me, andthat's quite right too.
I'm there to showcase my guests, the only important thing I'm
going to talk about, not me, Idon't matter.
Welcome to Creators fromTrueFans.
(01:02):
I'm independent podcaster,Claire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:06):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:08):
Each episode , we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:17):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:26):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:32):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world.
That could be a benefit toindependent creators.
Claire Waite Brown (01:38):
Hi Sam.
Sam Sethi (01:39):
Hi Claire, Hello.
Claire Waite Brown (01:40):
Hi, this time Sam has been doing some
interviewing and chatted withDavid John Clark, otherwise
known as the late bloomer actor.
Sam Sethi (01:52):
Over to you, sam, Hello, and now the podcaster of
the week.
His name's David John Clark.
He's known online, though, asthe late bloomer actor.
David hello, how are you?
David John Clark (02:03):
Good afternoon .
Well, it's good afternoon forme.
I'm coming from Australia.
I'm sorry if you can'tunderstand me.
This is an Australian accent.
Sam Sethi (02:11):
It's okay, we do captions and subtitles, you'll
be fine.
David John Clark (02:15):
I love it.
It's great to see you, Sam.
Sam Sethi (02:17):
And you, my friend.
The name of your show is theLate Bloomer Actor.
What's it about?
David John Clark (02:22):
It almost describes itself.
It focuses on my journey as alate bloomer actor.
Obviously you're listening, youcan't see, but I am old, I'm
not so old.
I'm turning 52 next week andI've been acting for about 10 to
12 years, now Spring chicken,and so I share my journey, what
I learned and the people thataffect and help me as an actor
(02:46):
in a podcast, so I can reach theworld and reach out to other
late bloomer actors, otheractors as well, and you don't
have to be an actor, because wetalk all sorts of stuff, so
that's essentially it there.
Sam Sethi (02:58):
Now, what did you think when you were putting
together a podcast?
What would you hope was theoutcome?
David John Clark (03:04):
I was hoping to reach a new audience.
One of the reasons I startedthe podcast was here in Adelaide
.
I started up a Facebook groupcalled the Adelaide Actors and
Extras, and I share actingopportunities to educational
opportunities or anything that Ilearned as I went and the
Facebook page got bigger andbigger.
I think we're at 3,800 peoplein it now, when I was thinking
(03:26):
about doing a podcast.
That was a natural step forwardwas my desire to share what I
learned, because acting, likepodcasting, is such a difficult
arena to play in.
There's so much to learn, it'sso much information to come on
when you're on board in thefirst place and it can make you
give up real quick, and sothat's what I wanted to do.
(03:47):
I was hoping that this podcastcould reach not just Adelaide
people but Australians andaround the world, and that's
where it's gone.
So I love that is that sharingof information, are you?
Sam Sethi (03:59):
a weekly, bi-weekly, once a month.
What's your cadence?
David John Clark (04:04):
I am a monthly podcast, so my primary
background for the podcast is tointerview other people, so
other actors, industry guests,casting directors, people that
I've met on my journey to findout their story and to get them
to talk about what I've learnedfrom them.
The reason I went monthly wasthat's how late bloomer actors
(04:24):
work.
We've got full-time jobs so wedo our classes monthly and we do
our education monthly.
Our budget is only allowing usto do anything monthly, so it
went with the territory.
I do do some extra episodes nowout of necessity.
I wanted to have some quickerepisodes, so I have what what I
call an off script episode playon words for actors, where I
(04:46):
talk about something of the dayor something that I just want to
to garner and get out there formy, my listeners, and that's
actually surprisingly doingreally, really well.
So that's something as I goforward in the future that I'm
looking at that, because I thinkthat's garnering a more
listenership and people havecommented on that.
They actually really like thesingle episodes with me.
So it's interesting how welearn that and find it out.
Sam Sethi (05:09):
Now you find your own path forward.
What's your one pain point thatyou currently still have?
David John Clark (05:14):
I find discoverability is my biggest
pain point Getting listeners.
I feel that the data showsthere is a growth to my show,
but nothing significant that yousay wow, I've just doubled my
numbers from last month.
There is a slow trickle effect,so to speak.
So I read a lot about SEOstrategies, which I've tried to
(05:35):
do, and implement it, but it'sdifficult, and I can see why
people give up because am Italking to myself?
You know, when you look at thedata, sometimes it's really
really hard.
Spotify gives you some insightsinto that retention data, which
I really like.
So does Apple they're the onlytwo and this new platform that's
(05:57):
come out called TrueFans.
Sam Sethi (05:59):
I've never heard of it.
We'll start.
One Sounds very good.
David John Clark (06:02):
It's my podcast player of choice.
Ladies and gentlemen, TrueFans.
Sam Sethi (06:05):
Thank you very much.
David John Clark (06:06):
You know, and I think you're doing it in
TrueFans because you believe init, but you were promoting it
and pushing it beforehand andyou're promoting and pushing it
now through the whole thingbecause it is so big for an
indie podcaster like myself butpodcaster like myself but also
for the bigger podcasters whoare trying to sell airtime to
(06:26):
advertisers and sponsors.
You can't sell that if youcan't say how many people are
listening and how much they'relistening to.
Sam Sethi (06:33):
Yes, and I'm a firm believer that you know.
Download numbers do not meanthey are listeners, and that's
the sad thing.
I think the industry over thelast two or three years has
woken up to that.
It's good to see that thebigger platforms are beginning
to realize that actually showinghow many people are actually
playing your podcast is muchmore relevant to whether it's
(06:57):
being picked up than just autodownloads from Apple or from
anywhere.
David John Clark (07:01):
Could I just say one thing there, Sam, is
that I wanted to use this as anexample, because YouTube show
you plays Spotify you see anumber of plays Now.
Tiktok's quite similar, so Iput my promo episodes on TikTok
and the other night I had 746plays on it.
Wow, oh my God spike.
Everyone's listening, but Idived into the data, so this was
(07:25):
a promo.
I think it went for 47 seconds,so pretty quick.
My average listen time was 0.2seconds, so who cares that?
I had 746.
Nobody watched it.
Sam Sethi (07:38):
Yes, point of that number well, this is the
interesting thing.
So in TrueFans, we talk aboutlisten time, percent completed
as well, and those two metricsare really critical because
plays on their own, as you saywith TikTok, as people scroll
through the feed, literally asit starts, they record that as a
(07:59):
play.
But then, as you say, if allyou're doing is two seconds and
then moving on to the next one,well, what was the relevance of
that?
Right, they should have somesort of metric of the listener
played or watched I don't know10% of the video, and we will
then record that as a play.
You've got to realize thatactually, tiktok's playing a
game of marketing as well, whichis oh, let's tell creators,
(08:20):
loads of people have watchedtheir video.
They'll keep recording morevideo for us and keep giving us
content.
Strangely, as you know, inTrueFans, because you're on a
group, we've put in a new metricthat's going live today, called
the average listen time, andyou'll be able to see that for
every person who listens to yourpodcast and every episode as
(08:41):
well, because we think that isanother metric point that you
want to see.
I think the other thing youwant, and we're working on, is a
histogram of where in yourpodcast episode people listen
most, where they listen theleast and where people dropped
off Useful data that will tellyou what people found
(09:01):
interesting or not.
Now, given that you useTrueFans, did you use things
like chapters, transcripts andcomments before, or is this
something that you've turned onrecently?
David John Clark (09:15):
I've always made chapters, which I can do
through my host as a listener.
I liked chapters.
I listened to a podcast here inAustralia called Two Guys
Talking Tech, and I'm an Androiduser.
So when they go on and talkabout the next Apple or the iPad
, I don't give a damn.
I don't want to listen to it.
So they don't have chapters intheir podcast.
(09:36):
So I've got to sit therehitting the 30 second button
forward, sort of thing, or tryand drag it and try and find the
next point, or if I'm drivingmy car I can't do that.
So then I'm forced to listen toit, whereas with a chapter you
can just quickly press the nextchapter and you're through.
So that's why I've alwaysimplemented chapters myself.
Sam Sethi (09:55):
Counter to that I've heard recently actually was oh
yes, but if I put chapters,people will skip through my
content.
David John Clark (10:02):
They're going to anyway, like I just said, if
I don't want to listen, and thenI actually might miss a
pertinent point.
Again, going back to youlooking at your data, that would
be really, really helpfulbecause you would see a clear
delineation of people notlistening.
So if you go well, every weekwe only have three people
listening to us talking aboutApple, but 97 other people
(10:23):
listen to the rest of the show,then why are we talking about
Apple?
Sam Sethi (10:26):
Exactly and therefore you restructure the content of
your podcast and say, okay,we're dropping that.
When you implement things likecomments, and not just for
TrueFans, but all platforms,what's it like when you get your
first fan interaction?
David John Clark (10:40):
Oh, it's wonderful.
I have to be honest and I don'tget a lot of fan interaction.
I turned on fan mail inBuzzsprout and I've had two.
I had one person suggestingthat I interview a type of
person, which was fantastic, butthey didn't put their own
details in so I wasn't able toshout out to them.
And I think the other one wasmy son saying hey, dad, it's
(11:02):
great, so it's really nice.
But I think that's one was myson saying hey, dad, it's great,
so it's really nice.
But I think that's one of thebiggest problems.
Problem is not the right word,but that's one of the biggest
things with podcasting is youdon't get that feedback like you
do in YouTube, probably becausemost people are listening to it
in the car or out running or onheadphones.
That's the medium, that's whatpodcasting is, so you don't have
(11:23):
that ability to interactstraight away.
And then, obviously, you gethome.
You've forgotten, you've movedon.
So unless it's so pertinentthat you go hey, I need to log
on and send sam a comment aboutwhat he said today, you're
forgetting about it.
So it's not a negative thatyou're not getting that feedback
, but when you do get thatfeedback, it's it's fantastic,
definitely.
Sam Sethi (11:44):
I talk about and you mentioned it in this interview
discovery, interactivity, aretwo of the biggest pain points
in podcasting.
Every podcaster, big or small,wants to get their podcast
discovered.
Every podcaster now would likethat interactivity, that
feedback loop.
But the next thing thateveryone wants is monetization.
(12:05):
How do you look at that?
Is monetization important toyou as a creator?
Is the monetization that youhave in place useful and has it
been successful in any way?
David John Clark (12:17):
Making money as a creator is the ultimate
goal of anyone.
As an actor, we do so much workfor free.
When you do student films orindie films and everything like
that, you can gain exposure andgain experience, and it's the
nature of the industry that youhave to give to get, and that's
what I do with my podcast.
But it costs me money eachmonth.
(12:37):
A host costs me money, myequipment costs me money, my
recording software costs memoney and time is money.
So if you can get that to comeback, that's a big thing.
Now I'm sure we're going to talkabout V4V before we finish the
show, but going back to theoriginal thing of getting like a
sponsorship or ads, so Ireached out to some acting
(12:58):
companies and said, hey, this iswhat I'm doing and fortunately,
from day one I had a companycome on board that was willing
to sponsor my show, so to speak,through giving me a free
membership on their platform,and I've had that from day one,
so it doesn't pay for thepodcast.
It's a quid pro quo typearrangement, which is fine.
(13:19):
The reality is.
Sam Sethi (13:21):
I think that's the life of independent podcast
creators.
The reality is I think that'sthe life of independent podcast
creators they don't qualify forthe CPM rates the ads that you
can get from big ad networks.
Now the discussion aroundpodcasting 2.0 has been ongoing
for the last couple of years.
When did you first hear aboutpodcasting 2.0?
(13:43):
And when you did hear about it,what did you think it meant?
David John Clark (13:46):
Well, I listened to this wonderful
weekly show called Podn ewsWeekly, which I discovered early
in my days, and I think that'sprobably where I first started
to learn.
This gentleman called Sam Sethiraves on about it all the time.
Sometimes he talks a bit toomuch.
Sam Sethi (14:02):
Too much.
David John Clark (14:03):
No, but truly, Sam, what you do and what you
talk about is exactly whatPodcasting 2.0 is and why I've
got on board with it, because itmade so much sense to me as an
indie podcaster and I'm zero inthe industry of what podcasting
is.
It is huge.
I know you guys talked about alot of people saying that
(14:24):
podcasting is dying and that,but I don't think it is.
I think it's bigger than peoplereally think it is and that's
what got me excited by 2.0,because the value for value
system which is part of 2.0 andeverything that attaches to it.
It's exciting.
I feel like it's the heady daysof the internet just starting,
which is great to be on board.
(14:44):
So that's what got meinterested in that.
Sam Sethi (14:47):
The other thing that you described in Podcasting 2.0
was the idea of value for value,and it's not always a
micropayment system.
It can be, as you said, thequid pro quo.
I do this for you, you do thatfor me but now we've evolved it
to include micropayments,bitcoin, sats, which often turn
(15:08):
people off.
Those are terms that people arescared of or they just don't
like it.
They think it's a scam.
There's a lot of negativityaround it, but when you first
got to use a wallet and you madea micropayment, what were your
thoughts when?
David John Clark (15:23):
I first got an understanding of it, I said
this is great.
And I went to try and fund mywallet.
I was using Fountainfm at thetime.
It was the first one that I'dseen that had it, I couldn't do
it.
I couldn't get any money intomy wallet.
It was an Australian thing Icouldn't make.
My credit card wouldn't beaccepted.
I tried Google funds andeverything like that and I think
(15:45):
I ended up having conversationswith you later on about it when
we first met and it was so hardI couldn't make it work.
Now, eventually I did manage toget $10 into my Fountain
account and then I actually alsostarted earning some through
the way that Fountain works andI was able to do that V for V.
But that's because I waspersistent.
(16:05):
Now, if I'd been, you justwouldn't get a mainstream
listener doing that at all,because it's not easy and it's
not understanding.
And the moment they've hit thatfirst block, like I did, they
go.
Well, this is ridiculous.
I'll just listen because youcan listen for free.
So why am I going to pay if Ican listen for free?
And if I want to pay, then I'vegot to go through all these
hurdles, which is a pain.
They're not going to do it, andI think that's one of the
(16:27):
biggest stumbling blocks we havenow is that it's not going to
be mainstream until it's easyLike everyone pays for Spotify.
They pay their monthly fee,they listen to whatever songs
they want and that money gets tothe artist somehow maybe not
much of it, but that process isjust automatic.
So if we can make V for V work,as simple as the Spotify system
(16:51):
works, but fairer for thecreators, then we'll see some
traction, I feel.
Sam Sethi (16:56):
It is a technical challenge getting wallets to
work.
It is a technical challengegetting people to understand how
the micropayment system willwork.
We've got to get over thattechnical hump and get it to the
mainstream.
And when you include real moneywhich is what it is into any
equation, people are worriedabout losing real money.
(17:17):
When you came over to TrueFans,you got your wallet and we did
the one-click Apple Pay andGoogle Pay.
Was that any easier or was thatstill scary for you as well?
David John Clark (17:29):
No, now it's easy.
I know that you've got it in abeta mode, so it's a maximum of
$10 in my currency.
So, Australia, I just log in,transfer $10 straight from my
account or my credit card and itconverts straight into TrueFans
and the benefit there is.
You see the $10 there.
You can set it up so you cansay how much you want to pay
(17:51):
people, and the benefit here isyou're not.
I've switched it, so it's whatyou call the fiat currency.
So I now set it up so I don'tpay every podcast.
I tend to not want to pay anypodcast that has strong sponsors
behind them or they're abusiness, because they are
making money already from me.
But my fellow podcasters,acting podcasts I listen to that
(18:13):
side of things I will pay them.
Now it's not a lot of money.
I have it set up as one centper minute.
Now, that's easy to understandand you can see it when you set
it up and it says total paymentwill be 26 cents.
Not a lot of money, but I feelthat is great, and I think $10
lasts me over a month in howmuch I listen to.
(18:34):
So that's less than Spotify andthat money is going straight to
the artist.
Yes, now that Spotify, myartists would not get anywhere
near 26 cents or one hour oftheir time, that's for sure.
They'd be lucky if they got acent of that.
So that's what I do and it'seasy to know because you can see
it and then you know you have10 people like me supporting
(18:56):
that podcast.
Now we're at $2.60 per episode.
You get 100 people listening tothe episode.
Doing that, we're starting totalk real value back to the
creators, which is a thing thatwe need to see.
Sam Sethi (19:09):
Last thing then for you where can I find the Late
Bloomer Actor?
David John Clark (19:13):
This is where I put on my radio voice and you
can find the Late Bloomer Actorwherever you get your podcasts,
as they say.
As good shade as that issupposed to be, no, I am.
Yes, I am on all podcastplatforms.
So, whatever player you areusing, if you type in the Late
Bloomer Actor, I will pop up.
I am on YouTube if you wish towatch the video version.
I will pop up.
(19:33):
I am on YouTube if you wish towatch the video version.
I also have social media linkson Facebook, instagram, linkedin
, x, or what we all really stillcall Twitter, tiktok, as well
under the Late Bloomer Actor.
I'm also on IMDb, which is theInternational Movie Database.
I list the podcast there.
Sam Sethi, you have a credit onIMDb that makes you an actor.
You can find the podcast thereand you can write it on there as
(19:54):
well.
Sam Sethi (19:55):
David, thank you so much.
Being a independent podcastcreator, it's a journey, right?
It's a journey from learninghow to start consistency over
time, making sure you've got theright equipment, persistency as
well, constantly turning up,putting out the content,
promoting it for yourself andsometimes not getting the return
on your time and investment,but over time that does actually
(20:19):
come back to you.
David John Clark (20:22):
I think I get a lot of imposter syndrome when
I'm in here that I don't feelthat I'm important enough to be
involved in your show or on Podnews Weekly when you mention my
name.
The same with the Buzzcast team.
They mention a lot of thingswhen I put a comment on their
post and it's just overwhelmingand amazing that I can be part
(20:47):
of what I consider the upperechelon of the podcasting
industry and put my two centsworth.
So thank you very much forletting me be part of that.
Sam Sethi (20:55):
David.
Thanks a lot, mate.
Have a lovely day in Australia.
Catch up soon.
David John Clark (20:59):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Cheers Sam.
Sam Sethi (21:02):
In the second part of that interview you'll find at
the end of this episode ofCreators, david talks about his
setup and the software he lovesand gives his earlier podcast
self a word of advice.
I always like to give myearlier self a word of advice.
Claire Waite Brown (21:19):
Yes, Don't do it.
And if you'd like to exploreanything that David and Sam
talked about in that interview,please do leave us a comment or
a super comment, which is supereasy to do in TrueFans by
clicking on the speech bubbleicon or the tab called comments
under the icons, and we canstrike up a conversation.
Sam Sethi (21:41):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
this show?
Creators from TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (21:50):
If you'd like to chat with us about your
independent podcast or yourmusic, send a comment or super
comment in TrueFans to anycreators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on thecomments tab.
Sam Sethi (22:05):
Claire, we've been collecting the questions that
listeners have sent us.
Which questions have you chosento ask me this week?
Claire Waite Brown (22:11):
Questions that listeners have sent us.
Which questions have you chosento ask me this week?
Yeah, it's two again, but thefirst one is from me.
Sam Sethi (22:16):
please, Okay, question from Claire to Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (22:18):
Yes, yes, we spoke last episode about
putting the Ear Worthy Awardwinners.
Congratulations for Pod NewsWeekly, by the way.
Thank you very much.
We talked about putting thosewinners on the Podcasts.
We're Loving carousel on theTrueFans homepage, which I have
been doing, and it looksfabulous, I have to say, however
(22:40):
, when I search for some of theshows in TrueFans, they can't be
found.
Now I'm hoping you know whythis is, sam.
Sam Sethi (22:48):
What happens is TrueFans uses one directory
called the podcast index andthat pretty much has everything
that is out there in thepodcasting space.
But occasionally people who,for whatever reason, might just
want to be on Spotify forcreators, and so they're only on
the Spotify directory, or theymight want to just simply be on
(23:10):
the Apple podcast directorydirectory, or they might want to
just simply be on the Applepodcast directory and TrueFans
we don't look at those two otherdirectories so occasionally and
it looks like it's in this casepeople are only single
directory and they're not on thepodcast index directory, so any
shows that aren't on podcastindex.
Claire Waite Brown (23:31):
I have an episode of Podcasting 2.0 in
Practice which tells you how youcan do that through your
hosting company.
Sam Sethi (23:41):
Oh, good yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (23:42):
It's episode 6, 101 and 2.0 homework, so
that covers a number of thedirectories and it's really easy
to do that.
Yeah, so I've been putting that.
On that carousel Now we havetalked about obviously a lot of
awards happen throughout theyear Having a dedicated awards
carousel.
Is that something we're goingto be doing?
Sam Sethi (24:03):
Yes, because you asked for it.
Feature queen yes, the awardscarousel is in the offing.
So what will happen is Clairewill be able to go into the
super admin back end forTrueFans and add every podcast
that wins an award to thatawards carousel and name it for
(24:24):
that award.
So we'll have the ear worthycarousel and the date and then
the podcast will appear on thatcarousel and then they will come
off or they'll get hidden andyou'll update it with the next
awards carousel.
The reason is, each carousel canalso become a playlist.
So if you want to simply turn acarousel into your own playlist
(24:46):
, you click on that option, itbecomes your playlist and you
can even edit then the playlist.
So you might say, oh, don'tlisten to what is that?
Pod news, weekly review.
No, not interested in them.
So you can take that off theplaylist and have everything
else still left in.
And then the nice thing is, aseach new episode for those
podcasts come out, they willautomatically update in your
(25:09):
playlist and so you have what wecall dynamic playlists.
So, yes, nice way for you toget introduced to the awards and
the winners and then turn thatinto your playlist and then have
those automatically update whenany new episode appears.
Claire Waite Brown (25:24):
Brilliant.
I was going to ask if it wasgoing to be dynamic, always
dynamic.
Sam Sethi (25:28):
Excellent, Claire.
Any more questions?
Claire Waite Brown (25:35):
dynamic.
Excellent, Claire.
Any more questions?
Last time we were here, wespoke about a way for podcasts
to promote their shows in thesecond slot of the episodes list
of another relevant podcast,and you said that would be ready
by the next time we record.
And here we are are.
I have had people asking meabout how this promo works and
how to get started.
So has TrueFans met thechallenge?
Sam Sethi (25:58):
yes.
So the idea now is I might liketo promote my podcast in your
show, Claire.
Now I don't want to do a feeddrop.
I don't want to inject intoyour audio my episode, right?
I think that, personally, issomething I find quite intrusive
(26:18):
.
My audience may not want tolisten to another one, even if
I've taken some money for it.
But I think what's quite niceand the way that we've done it
is that I can go into mycreator's dashboard.
I can look up a podcast I wantto be promoted on.
I can then send them a request,which is I would like to be
(26:40):
featured on your podcast showpage.
Slot number two is where wehighlight you and the idea is
that I can make an offer.
So I can say I want for sevendays and I'm willing to give you
10,000 sats.
Now you, as the creator, getthat request and you can accept
or reject.
If you reject, I get an emailback going no, don't want you
(27:03):
bugger off.
No, we know we don't say that.
We say it very nicely, butfundamentally, no, you can't be
promoted on my site.
It may be that you haven'tgiven that creator enough money
to incentivize them, or it maybe they just don't want promos
on their site.
But if you are successful andthey accept it, then yes, it
appears.
The order will be your featuredpodcast at the top, which is a
(27:25):
sticky thing, then your latestepisode and then below that
latest episode will be the promoof the podcast you've accepted.
You get the money in yourwallet, seven days passes and
then it automatically getsremoved and that's it, very
simple.
Claire Waite Brown (27:41):
Brilliant.
So that's good on both counts,for the podcast that wants the
promotion and the podcast thatis being promoted upon Brilliant
yes.
Sam Sethi (27:53):
Would you like us to do audio drop-ins to your RSS
feed?
I mean, is that a feature thatyou would like as a creator?
Claire Waite Brown (28:01):
What do you mean?
Sam Sethi (28:02):
So, let's say, I'm Podcasting 2.0 in Practice,
which is one of your podcasts,or Creativity Found, which is
another one, and I, as PodNewsWeekly Review said, which is
another one.
And I, as Podn ews WeeklyReview said, hey, Claire, I want
to actually put my latestepisode in the audio.
So then, what would happen inyour RSS feed when I played
episode your latest episode?
(28:22):
The next episode that wouldplay would be Pod News Weekly
Review and then the thirdepisode would be back to you.
Would you like that, where theperson requesting a promo also
injects their audio into yourRSS feed?
Claire Waite Brown (28:39):
I do do feed swaps with people where I will
say and it will just be atrailer or something, or I will
choose a particular episode thatis relevant to one of my shows.
Creativity Found in this case.
So I get that choice.
I choose an episode, I'll do myown intro for it.
I think the idea of being ableto put kind of pop-up promotions
(29:00):
in there and it's obvious thatthey're promotions from
somewhere else and they don'tnecessarily stay there forever
the flexibility of it I findquite attractive.
So I would like to use thatoption please.
Sam Sethi (29:12):
That's fine.
That's what we thought as well.
So, yes, promos are live on thehomepage, on the Carousels on
the homepage, and also for youto request a promo on someone
else's podcast page.
Claire Waite Brown (29:25):
Here's how you can request to have your
podcast promoted on anothershow's feed.
You need to have claimed yourshow.
If you don't know how to dothis, listen to Podcasting 2.0
in Practice, episode 19, PodrollHomework.
On the desktop version ofTrueFans, not the app, click on
your avatar at top right anddown to Creator's Dashboard.
(29:48):
Click on the pencil icon foryour show.
Go to the promotions tab alongthe top, then click on podcast
promotions.
Search for the show you wouldlike to be promoted on and when
you find it, click on sendrequest.
In the pop-up, adjust theamount of days you would like
the promo to run for and theamount you are willing to pay.
(30:09):
Once submitted, you will bereturned to the podcast
promotion page where yourrequest will be given a waiting
status.
If your request is accepted,you'll receive a notification in
TrueFans and see the acceptedstatus on the podcast promotion
screen, where you can also seethe details of your promotion,
(30:30):
such as duration, booked daysleft and the amount you paid.
If your request is rejected,you will also get a notification
in the app.
You can resubmit at a higherprice if you wish.
Sam, what have you spotted outand about in the world that is
of use and relevance to oursuper independent podcaster
(30:53):
friends.
Sam Sethi (30:54):
So last week, last time we talked about you
literally don't get a secondchance.
So 41% of people said if yourfirst episode's rubbish, they
won't come back for the secondepisode.
That same report now is sayingif you start with too much
meaningless chat, it's justboring and people don't want to
come back to it.
So let's say you and I startedtalking about the Edinburgh
(31:15):
fringe or you getting a sonwho's passed a driving test,
people would go, oh, I don'twant to talk about that.
Sam and Claire, move on right.
There are too many podcaststhat actually spend time at the
beginning doing that.
The data suggests that thefirst 60 seconds of any podcast
are critical.
It's quite harsh but equally, Ithink, quite fair as well.
Claire Waite Brown (31:37):
I don't think it's harsh at all.
I think it's like the headlinesin a newspaper article you want
to say what you're going tostay reading for.
So I do it with CreativityFound and I do it with this show
as well.
I put in three clips that givea taste of what's coming, and I
always choose clips that I thinkare juicy or exciting or
interesting and that takes lessthan 60 seconds straight in with
(32:02):
an intro, straight in with theactual episode.
Sam Sethi (32:04):
Exactly when you're structuring or thinking about
structuring your show.
Claire's done a great job here,taking clips at the beginning,
but certainly please do notstart talking about your
shopping list or where you wenton holiday of your podcast, not
(32:30):
your life.
Claire Waite Brown (32:30):
No one cares about me, and that's quite
right too.
I'm there to showcase my guests, all the important thing I'm
going to talk about, not me.
I don't matter.
Sam Sethi (32:35):
Yeah, Like you do to Andrew, and you know the
children, but that's fine, areyou sure?
I'm not putting that to thetest.
Anyway, now events that peoplemight be interested in going
along to.
Some of these are UK based,some of these are international.
We always try to look aroundthe globe.
So the London Podcast Festivalis this September.
(32:55):
It's the 10th year at King'sPlace.
If you're interested in seeingsome of your favourite podcasts
live, go to their website andhave a look.
It's between the 4th and the14th of September.
Claire Waite Brown (33:07):
And alongside the live shows, I
believe that there is anotherpart of it called the Podcast
Makers Weekend, which is aseries of workshops offering
practical insights into podcastcreation, with affordable
sessions designed for newcomersand more experienced producers.
(33:28):
So that's part of that festivalfrom the 13th to the 14th of
September, and you can finddetails of the workshops for
that on the website as well.
Sam Sethi (33:36):
Now if you're thinking of entering your
podcast for an award, the APAsare the Audio UK Awards.
They will be live on Novemberthe 27th at the BFI in London,
but you have until the 17th ofSeptember to enter.
So if you think your podcast isworth an award or an
outstanding achievement, go forit.
(33:58):
You'll find that on the AudioUK website.
Claire Waite Brown (34:01):
Brilliant and good luck.
Now, Sam, I've heard you'regoing somewhere rather nice for
another podcast event in October.
Please tell.
Sam Sethi (34:11):
Well, I need to top up the tan, although they do say
the rain in Spain stays mainlyin the plane.
But hopefully it won't be inMadrid, because, yes, I'll be in
Madrid on the 2nd and 3rd ofOctober at Podcast Days in Spain
.
Other speakers will be EricNewsome and Megan Davis from
Acast, Todd Cochrane fromBlubrry, and there's a host of
(34:32):
Spanish speakers as well.
I'm really looking forward toit.
Very nice to go along.
Claire Waite Brown (34:36):
Make sure you collect some indie European
podcasts for me to feature inthe future on this show.
Sam Sethi (34:44):
Bring them in the handbag.
Claire Waite Brown (34:45):
No, no no, just get their details, just get
the shows.
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (34:52):
And lastly, there's the Lovie Awards, something that
maybe we'll enter for now I'mjoking.
The Lovey Awards has extendedits deadline entry date until
Friday, the 19th of September.
Again, please have a look atthis.
The event is Europe's Awardsfor Online Creativity.
If you think you qualify for it, go for it, because you know
you've got to be in it to win it.
Claire Waite Brown (35:13):
I'm at an awards ceremony in September as
well.
Sam Sethi (35:16):
Are you, where are you going?
Claire Waite Brown (35:18):
It's the Digital Women Awards and I put
Podcasting 2.0 in there as apodcast, so it's just one
category.
The category is businesspodcasts, which Podcasting 2.0
is.
If you're in the business ofpodcasting, yes, you know, give
it a go.
Sam Sethi (35:36):
Go for it and obviously you'll win it for
certain when you do Podcasting3.0 in practice.
Claire Waite Brown (35:42):
Subtle hint nudge.
It's always on the back of mymind.
Sam Sethi (35:45):
Anyway, Claire, and that's it for this week.
Thanks for tuning in.
Our audio is recorded onRiverside, edited by the
wonderful Claire, and we'rehosted by Busss prout.
Claire Waite Brown (35:55):
You can support this show by streaming
from your TrueFans wallet orleave us a super comment, as I
mentioned earlier, by pressingthe speech icon or the thing
called comments.
Better still, you can alsobecome a monthly supporter of
this show.
Sam Sethi (36:12):
If you'd like to promote your podcast on Creators
from TrueFans you know we justtalked about promoting it.
You can now send us a requestand it'll go to Claire.
It doesn't come to me, so don'tblame me if you don't get
promoted.
Just blame Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (36:25):
But no, we get an admin dashboard update
notification and, yes, hopefullywe will be promoting you on
TrueFans that would be brilliant, and you can find out more
about how to use the features ofthe TrueFans platform by
listening to our sister podcastfan zone.
It's a step-by-step, bite-sizedseries covering one aspect at a
(36:49):
time, and similar to that.
If you're keen to learn moreabout Podcasting 2.0 in general,
check out my course-basedpodcast called Podcasting 2.0 in
Practice, of which my finalholiday homework update episode
went out today, and that tellsyou how to withdraw your sats
(37:09):
from TrueFans into Stripe so youcan take them out into the real
world and spend them as realmoney.
Yes, so catch up on that one.
Sam Sethi (37:18):
So if you have had fans who've paid you now you can
take the money out and put itback into your bank account.
Claire Waite Brown (37:25):
Don't forget , you can keep listening to hear
more from this episode'sfeatured creator.
Sam Sethi (37:32):
Now what's the one word of advice, now that you've
done it for four or five yearsthat you would say, hmm, I would
have done it differently.
Now you can look back on thearc of all the podcast episodes.
David John Clark (37:44):
I did think consistency was the word and
it's not really a piece ofadvice to give my old self in
hindsight, because that'sactually what my flow was but I
would have to tell myself, eventhough that's what's helped me
get to today I think I'm at 53episodes it would be a good
reminder and a motivational pushin those early days when you
(38:05):
think what am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
Because we all know that mostpodcasts can't get past seven
episodes.
So you need that understandingthat it's just that consistency
to keep pushing through.
And if there was a point therewhere I was thinking about
quitting in the early days Idon't think there was in my case
, but consistency would becertainly the word I would give
myself or anyone else for sure.
Sam Sethi (38:27):
What's your recording setup?
What's your equipment?
What do you use?
Did you start with what youcurrently use today?
David John Clark (38:35):
Pretty much.
I think I had one of thosegeneric microphones that
everyone says don't use.
I think Claire uses it.
Sam Sethi (38:45):
Yeti.
David John Clark (38:46):
Yes, the Yeti.
I think I had one of them, butI pretty much quickly found some
some cash for Christmas, Ithink and I upgraded to the
setup that I've got now.
And Rode is my chosen brand.
It's an Australian brand, whichis brilliant.
It's one of the best, if notone of the best in the world for
for this, the Podbike goes intoa Rode interface.
(39:07):
It's a simple one.
I don't have the fancy buttonsand sounds and everything like
that, because I don't reallyneed it and it does the job and
when you record, what softwaredo you use?
I did a bit of research at thestart.
I knew that there were issueswith Zoom.
I'm sorry, Zoom, dropping youlike that but I'd listened to
podcasts where I knew what thesound quality was and that
they'd recorded in Zoom.
I'd listened to podcasts whereI knew what the sound quality
(39:27):
was and that they'd recorded inZoom.
I came up with two options,which was Descript and Riverside
FM.
For whatever directed me, Ithink it came down to money.
At the time Riverside was thecheaper monthly option and I
went with Riverside and I'vebeen with them since day one and
it has been a journey of upsand downs, like any company as
they get better.
I can say now after three yearsit is just absolutely brilliant
(39:52):
to recall with him.
It's fun and just makeseverything so easy.
You can edit everything in itnow and it makes it so
professional because I don'thave any audio background
limited editing and software,that side of things and it just
makes it a breeze for punchingout an episode.
so if we can make V4V work as simple as the
Spotify system works, but fairerfor the creators, then we'll
see some traction.
Sam Sethi (00:15):
I feel the order will be your featured podcast at the
top, which is a sticky thing,then your latest and then below
that latest episode will be thepromo of the podcast you've
accepted.
You get the money in yourwallet, seven days passes and
then it automatically getsremoved.
But certainly please do notstart talking about your
(00:38):
shopping list or where you wenton holiday.
Claire Waite Brown (00:41):
I tend to think about the politeness it's
very British and the respect forother people.
They're tuning in for thecontent of your podcast, not
your life.
No one cares about me, andthat's quite right too.
I'm there to showcase my guests, the only important thing I'm
going to talk about, not me, Idon't matter.
Welcome to Creators fromTrueFans.
(01:02):
I'm independent podcaster,Claire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:06):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:08):
Each episode , we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:17):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:26):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:32):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world.
That could be a benefit toindependent creators.
Claire Waite Brown (01:38):
Hi Sam.
Sam Sethi (01:39):
Hi Claire, Hello.
Claire Waite Brown (01:40):
Hi, this time Sam has been doing some
interviewing and chatted withDavid John Clark, otherwise
known as the late bloomer actor.
Sam Sethi (01:52):
Over to you, sam, Hello, and now the podcaster of
the week.
His name's David John Clark.
He's known online, though, asthe late bloomer actor.
David hello, how are you?
David John Clark (02:03):
Good afternoon .
Well, it's good afternoon forme.
I'm coming from Australia.
I'm sorry if you can'tunderstand me.
This is an Australian accent.
Sam Sethi (02:11):
It's okay, we do captions and subtitles, you'll
be fine.
David John Clark (02:15):
I love it.
It's great to see you, Sam.
Sam Sethi (02:17):
And you, my friend.
The name of your show is theLate Bloomer Actor.
What's it about?
David John Clark (02:22):
It almost describes itself.
It focuses on my journey as alate bloomer actor.
Obviously you're listening, youcan't see, but I am old, I'm
not so old.
I'm turning 52 next week andI've been acting for about 10 to
12 years, now Spring chicken,and so I share my journey, what
I learned and the people thataffect and help me as an actor
(02:46):
in a podcast, so I can reach theworld and reach out to other
late bloomer actors, otheractors as well, and you don't
have to be an actor, because wetalk all sorts of stuff, so
that's essentially it there.
Sam Sethi (02:58):
Now, what did you think when you were putting
together a podcast?
What would you hope was theoutcome?
David John Clark (03:04):
I was hoping to reach a new audience.
One of the reasons I startedthe podcast was here in Adelaide
.
I started up a Facebook groupcalled the Adelaide Actors and
Extras, and I share actingopportunities to educational
opportunities or anything that Ilearned as I went and the
Facebook page got bigger andbigger.
I think we're at 3,800 peoplein it now, when I was thinking
(03:26):
about doing a podcast.
That was a natural step forwardwas my desire to share what I
learned, because acting, likepodcasting, is such a difficult
arena to play in.
There's so much to learn, it'sso much information to come on
when you're on board in thefirst place and it can make you
give up real quick, and sothat's what I wanted to do.
(03:47):
I was hoping that this podcastcould reach not just Adelaide
people but Australians andaround the world, and that's
where it's gone.
So I love that is that sharingof information, are you?
Sam Sethi (03:59):
a weekly, bi-weekly, once a month.
What's your cadence?
David John Clark (04:04):
I am a monthly podcast, so my primary
background for the podcast is tointerview other people, so
other actors, industry guests,casting directors, people that
I've met on my journey to findout their story and to get them
to talk about what I've learnedfrom them.
The reason I went monthly wasthat's how late bloomer actors
(04:24):
work.
We've got full-time jobs so wedo our classes monthly and we do
our education monthly.
Our budget is only allowing usto do anything monthly, so it
went with the territory.
I do do some extra episodes nowout of necessity.
I wanted to have some quickerepisodes, so I have what what I
call an off script episode playon words for actors, where I
(04:46):
talk about something of the dayor something that I just want to
to garner and get out there formy, my listeners, and that's
actually surprisingly doingreally, really well.
So that's something as I goforward in the future that I'm
looking at that, because I thinkthat's garnering a more
listenership and people havecommented on that.
They actually really like thesingle episodes with me.
So it's interesting how welearn that and find it out.
Sam Sethi (05:09):
Now you find your own path forward.
What's your one pain point thatyou currently still have?
David John Clark (05:14):
I find discoverability is my biggest
pain point Getting listeners.
I feel that the data showsthere is a growth to my show,
but nothing significant that yousay wow, I've just doubled my
numbers from last month.
There is a slow trickle effect,so to speak.
So I read a lot about SEOstrategies, which I've tried to
(05:35):
do, and implement it, but it'sdifficult, and I can see why
people give up because am Italking to myself?
You know, when you look at thedata, sometimes it's really
really hard.
Spotify gives you some insightsinto that retention data, which
I really like.
So does Apple they're the onlytwo and this new platform that's
(05:57):
come out called TrueFans.
Sam Sethi (05:59):
I've never heard of it.
We'll start.
One Sounds very good.
David John Clark (06:02):
It's my podcast player of choice.
Ladies and gentlemen, TrueFans.
Sam Sethi (06:05):
Thank you very much.
David John Clark (06:06):
You know, and I think you're doing it in
TrueFans because you believe init, but you were promoting it
and pushing it beforehand andyou're promoting and pushing it
now through the whole thingbecause it is so big for an
indie podcaster like myself butpodcaster like myself but also
for the bigger podcasters whoare trying to sell airtime to
(06:26):
advertisers and sponsors.
You can't sell that if youcan't say how many people are
listening and how much they'relistening to.
Sam Sethi (06:33):
Yes, and I'm a firm believer that you know.
Download numbers do not meanthey are listeners, and that's
the sad thing.
I think the industry over thelast two or three years has
woken up to that.
It's good to see that thebigger platforms are beginning
to realize that actually showinghow many people are actually
playing your podcast is muchmore relevant to whether it's
(06:57):
being picked up than just autodownloads from Apple or from
anywhere.
David John Clark (07:01):
Could I just say one thing there, Sam, is
that I wanted to use this as anexample, because YouTube show
you plays Spotify you see anumber of plays Now.
Tiktok's quite similar, so Iput my promo episodes on TikTok
and the other night I had 746plays on it.
Wow, oh my God spike.
Everyone's listening, but Idived into the data, so this was
(07:25):
a promo.
I think it went for 47 seconds,so pretty quick.
My average listen time was 0.2seconds, so who cares that?
I had 746.
Nobody watched it.
Sam Sethi (07:38):
Yes, point of that number well, this is the
interesting thing.
So in TrueFans, we talk aboutlisten time, percent completed
as well, and those two metricsare really critical because
plays on their own, as you saywith TikTok, as people scroll
through the feed, literally asit starts, they record that as a
(07:59):
play.
But then, as you say, if allyou're doing is two seconds and
then moving on to the next one,well, what was the relevance of
that?
Right, they should have somesort of metric of the listener
played or watched I don't know10% of the video, and we will
then record that as a play.
You've got to realize thatactually, tiktok's playing a
game of marketing as well, whichis oh, let's tell creators,
(08:20):
loads of people have watchedtheir video.
They'll keep recording morevideo for us and keep giving us
content.
Strangely, as you know, inTrueFans, because you're on a
group, we've put in a new metricthat's going live today, called
the average listen time, andyou'll be able to see that for
every person who listens to yourpodcast and every episode as
(08:41):
well, because we think that isanother metric point that you
want to see.
I think the other thing youwant, and we're working on, is a
histogram of where in yourpodcast episode people listen
most, where they listen theleast and where people dropped
off Useful data that will tellyou what people found
(09:01):
interesting or not.
Now, given that you useTrueFans, did you use things
like chapters, transcripts andcomments before, or is this
something that you've turned onrecently?
David John Clark (09:15):
I've always made chapters, which I can do
through my host as a listener.
I liked chapters.
I listened to a podcast here inAustralia called Two Guys
Talking Tech, and I'm an Androiduser.
So when they go on and talkabout the next Apple or the iPad
, I don't give a damn.
I don't want to listen to it.
So they don't have chapters intheir podcast.
(09:36):
So I've got to sit therehitting the 30 second button
forward, sort of thing, or tryand drag it and try and find the
next point, or if I'm drivingmy car I can't do that.
So then I'm forced to listen toit, whereas with a chapter you
can just quickly press the nextchapter and you're through.
So that's why I've alwaysimplemented chapters myself.
Sam Sethi (09:55):
Counter to that I've heard recently actually was oh
yes, but if I put chapters,people will skip through my
content.
David John Clark (10:02):
They're going to anyway, like I just said, if
I don't want to listen, and thenI actually might miss a
pertinent point.
Again, going back to youlooking at your data, that would
be really, really helpfulbecause you would see a clear
delineation of people notlistening.
So if you go well, every weekwe only have three people
listening to us talking aboutApple, but 97 other people
(10:23):
listen to the rest of the show,then why are we talking about
Apple?
Sam Sethi (10:26):
Exactly and therefore you restructure the content of
your podcast and say, okay,we're dropping that.
When you implement things likecomments, and not just for
TrueFans, but all platforms,what's it like when you get your
first fan interaction?
David John Clark (10:40):
Oh, it's wonderful.
I have to be honest and I don'tget a lot of fan interaction.
I turned on fan mail inBuzzsprout and I've had two.
I had one person suggestingthat I interview a type of
person, which was fantastic, butthey didn't put their own
details in so I wasn't able toshout out to them.
And I think the other one wasmy son saying hey, dad, it's
(11:02):
great, so it's really nice.
But I think that's one was myson saying hey, dad, it's great,
so it's really nice.
But I think that's one of thebiggest problems.
Problem is not the right word,but that's one of the biggest
things with podcasting is youdon't get that feedback like you
do in YouTube, probably becausemost people are listening to it
in the car or out running or onheadphones.
That's the medium, that's whatpodcasting is, so you don't have
(11:23):
that ability to interactstraight away.
And then, obviously, you gethome.
You've forgotten, you've movedon.
So unless it's so pertinentthat you go hey, I need to log
on and send sam a comment aboutwhat he said today, you're
forgetting about it.
So it's not a negative thatyou're not getting that feedback
, but when you do get thatfeedback, it's it's fantastic,
definitely.
Sam Sethi (11:44):
I talk about and you mentioned it in this interview
discovery, interactivity, aretwo of the biggest pain points
in podcasting.
Every podcaster, big or small,wants to get their podcast
discovered.
Every podcaster now would likethat interactivity, that
feedback loop.
But the next thing thateveryone wants is monetization.
(12:05):
How do you look at that?
Is monetization important toyou as a creator?
Is the monetization that youhave in place useful and has it
been successful in any way?
David John Clark (12:17):
Making money as a creator is the ultimate
goal of anyone.
As an actor, we do so much workfor free.
When you do student films orindie films and everything like
that, you can gain exposure andgain experience, and it's the
nature of the industry that youhave to give to get, and that's
what I do with my podcast.
But it costs me money eachmonth.
(12:37):
A host costs me money, myequipment costs me money, my
recording software costs memoney and time is money.
So if you can get that to comeback, that's a big thing.
Now I'm sure we're going to talkabout V4V before we finish the
show, but going back to theoriginal thing of getting like a
sponsorship or ads, so Ireached out to some acting
(12:58):
companies and said, hey, this iswhat I'm doing and fortunately,
from day one I had a companycome on board that was willing
to sponsor my show, so to speak,through giving me a free
membership on their platform,and I've had that from day one,
so it doesn't pay for thepodcast.
It's a quid pro quo typearrangement, which is fine.
(13:19):
The reality is.
Sam Sethi (13:21):
I think that's the life of independent podcast
creators.
The reality is I think that'sthe life of independent podcast
creators they don't qualify forthe CPM rates the ads that you
can get from big ad networks.
Now the discussion aroundpodcasting 2.0 has been ongoing
for the last couple of years.
When did you first hear aboutpodcasting 2.0?
(13:43):
And when you did hear about it,what did you think it meant?
David John Clark (13:46):
Well, I listened to this wonderful
weekly show called Podn ewsWeekly, which I discovered early
in my days, and I think that'sprobably where I first started
to learn.
This gentleman called Sam Sethiraves on about it all the time.
Sometimes he talks a bit toomuch.
Sam Sethi (14:02):
Too much.
David John Clark (14:03):
No, but truly, Sam, what you do and what you
talk about is exactly whatPodcasting 2.0 is and why I've
got on board with it, because itmade so much sense to me as an
indie podcaster and I'm zero inthe industry of what podcasting
is.
It is huge.
I know you guys talked about alot of people saying that
(14:24):
podcasting is dying and that,but I don't think it is.
I think it's bigger than peoplereally think it is and that's
what got me excited by 2.0,because the value for value
system which is part of 2.0 andeverything that attaches to it.
It's exciting.
I feel like it's the heady daysof the internet just starting,
which is great to be on board.
(14:44):
So that's what got meinterested in that.
Sam Sethi (14:47):
The other thing that you described in Podcasting 2.0
was the idea of value for value,and it's not always a
micropayment system.
It can be, as you said, thequid pro quo.
I do this for you, you do thatfor me but now we've evolved it
to include micropayments,bitcoin, sats, which often turn
(15:08):
people off.
Those are terms that people arescared of or they just don't
like it.
They think it's a scam.
There's a lot of negativityaround it, but when you first
got to use a wallet and you madea micropayment, what were your
thoughts when?
David John Clark (15:23):
I first got an understanding of it, I said
this is great.
And I went to try and fund mywallet.
I was using Fountainfm at thetime.
It was the first one that I'dseen that had it, I couldn't do
it.
I couldn't get any money intomy wallet.
It was an Australian thing Icouldn't make.
My credit card wouldn't beaccepted.
I tried Google funds andeverything like that and I think
(15:45):
I ended up having conversationswith you later on about it when
we first met and it was so hardI couldn't make it work.
Now, eventually I did manage toget $10 into my Fountain
account and then I actually alsostarted earning some through
the way that Fountain works andI was able to do that V for V.
But that's because I waspersistent.
(16:05):
Now, if I'd been, you justwouldn't get a mainstream
listener doing that at all,because it's not easy and it's
not understanding.
And the moment they've hit thatfirst block, like I did, they
go.
Well, this is ridiculous.
I'll just listen because youcan listen for free.
So why am I going to pay if Ican listen for free?
And if I want to pay, then I'vegot to go through all these
hurdles, which is a pain.
They're not going to do it, andI think that's one of the
(16:27):
biggest stumbling blocks we havenow is that it's not going to
be mainstream until it's easyLike everyone pays for Spotify.
They pay their monthly fee,they listen to whatever songs
they want and that money gets tothe artist somehow maybe not
much of it, but that process isjust automatic.
So if we can make V for V work,as simple as the Spotify system
(16:51):
works, but fairer for thecreators, then we'll see some
traction, I feel.
Sam Sethi (16:56):
It is a technical challenge getting wallets to
work.
It is a technical challengegetting people to understand how
the micropayment system willwork.
We've got to get over thattechnical hump and get it to the
mainstream.
And when you include real moneywhich is what it is into any
equation, people are worriedabout losing real money.
(17:17):
When you came over to TrueFans,you got your wallet and we did
the one-click Apple Pay andGoogle Pay.
Was that any easier or was thatstill scary for you as well?
David John Clark (17:29):
No, now it's easy.
I know that you've got it in abeta mode, so it's a maximum of
$10 in my currency.
So, Australia, I just log in,transfer $10 straight from my
account or my credit card and itconverts straight into TrueFans
and the benefit there is.
You see the $10 there.
You can set it up so you cansay how much you want to pay
(17:51):
people, and the benefit here isyou're not.
I've switched it, so it's whatyou call the fiat currency.
So I now set it up so I don'tpay every podcast.
I tend to not want to pay anypodcast that has strong sponsors
behind them or they're abusiness, because they are
making money already from me.
But my fellow podcasters,acting podcasts I listen to that
(18:13):
side of things I will pay them.
Now it's not a lot of money.
I have it set up as one centper minute.
Now, that's easy to understandand you can see it when you set
it up and it says total paymentwill be 26 cents.
Not a lot of money, but I feelthat is great, and I think $10
lasts me over a month in howmuch I listen to.
(18:34):
So that's less than Spotify andthat money is going straight to
the artist.
Yes, now that Spotify, myartists would not get anywhere
near 26 cents or one hour oftheir time, that's for sure.
They'd be lucky if they got acent of that.
So that's what I do and it'seasy to know because you can see
it and then you know you have10 people like me supporting
(18:56):
that podcast.
Now we're at $2.60 per episode.
You get 100 people listening tothe episode.
Doing that, we're starting totalk real value back to the
creators, which is a thing thatwe need to see.
Sam Sethi (19:09):
Last thing then for you where can I find the Late
Bloomer Actor?
David John Clark (19:13):
This is where I put on my radio voice and you
can find the Late Bloomer Actorwherever you get your podcasts,
as they say.
As good shade as that issupposed to be, no, I am.
Yes, I am on all podcastplatforms.
So, whatever player you areusing, if you type in the Late
Bloomer Actor, I will pop up.
I am on YouTube if you wish towatch the video version.
I will pop up.
(19:33):
I am on YouTube if you wish towatch the video version.
I also have social media linkson Facebook, instagram, linkedin
, x, or what we all really stillcall Twitter, tiktok, as well
under the Late Bloomer Actor.
I'm also on IMDb, which is theInternational Movie Database.
I list the podcast there.
Sam Sethi, you have a credit onIMDb that makes you an actor.
You can find the podcast thereand you can write it on there as
(19:54):
well.
Sam Sethi (19:55):
David, thank you so much.
Being a independent podcastcreator, it's a journey, right?
It's a journey from learninghow to start consistency over
time, making sure you've got theright equipment, persistency as
well, constantly turning up,putting out the content,
promoting it for yourself andsometimes not getting the return
on your time and investment,but over time that does actually
(20:19):
come back to you.
David John Clark (20:22):
I think I get a lot of imposter syndrome when
I'm in here that I don't feelthat I'm important enough to be
involved in your show or on Podnews Weekly when you mention my
name.
The same with the Buzzcast team.
They mention a lot of thingswhen I put a comment on their
post and it's just overwhelmingand amazing that I can be part
(20:47):
of what I consider the upperechelon of the podcasting
industry and put my two centsworth.
So thank you very much forletting me be part of that.
Sam Sethi (20:55):
David.
Thanks a lot, mate.
Have a lovely day in Australia.
Catch up soon.
David John Clark (20:59):
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Cheers Sam.
Sam Sethi (21:02):
In the second part of that interview you'll find at
the end of this episode ofCreators, david talks about his
setup and the software he lovesand gives his earlier podcast
self a word of advice.
I always like to give myearlier self a word of advice.
Claire Waite Brown (21:19):
Yes, Don't do it.
And if you'd like to exploreanything that David and Sam
talked about in that interview,please do leave us a comment or
a super comment, which is supereasy to do in TrueFans by
clicking on the speech bubbleicon or the tab called comments
under the icons, and we canstrike up a conversation.
Sam Sethi (21:41):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
this show?
Creators from TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (21:50):
If you'd like to chat with us about your
independent podcast or yourmusic, send a comment or super
comment in TrueFans to anycreators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on thecomments tab.
Sam Sethi (22:05):
Claire, we've been collecting the questions that
listeners have sent us.
Which questions have you chosento ask me this week?
Claire Waite Brown (22:11):
Questions that listeners have sent us.
Which questions have you chosento ask me this week?
Yeah, it's two again, but thefirst one is from me.
Sam Sethi (22:16):
please, Okay, question from Claire to Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (22:18):
Yes, yes, we spoke last episode about
putting the Ear Worthy Awardwinners.
Congratulations for Pod NewsWeekly, by the way.
Thank you very much.
We talked about putting thosewinners on the Podcasts.
We're Loving carousel on theTrueFans homepage, which I have
been doing, and it looksfabulous, I have to say, however
(22:40):
, when I search for some of theshows in TrueFans, they can't be
found.
Now I'm hoping you know whythis is, sam.
Sam Sethi (22:48):
What happens is TrueFans uses one directory
called the podcast index andthat pretty much has everything
that is out there in thepodcasting space.
But occasionally people who,for whatever reason, might just
want to be on Spotify forcreators, and so they're only on
the Spotify directory, or theymight want to just simply be on
(23:10):
the Apple podcast directorydirectory, or they might want to
just simply be on the Applepodcast directory and TrueFans
we don't look at those two otherdirectories so occasionally and
it looks like it's in this casepeople are only single
directory and they're not on thepodcast index directory, so any
shows that aren't on podcastindex.
Claire Waite Brown (23:31):
I have an episode of Podcasting 2.0 in
Practice which tells you how youcan do that through your
hosting company.
Sam Sethi (23:41):
Oh, good yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (23:42):
It's episode 6, 101 and 2.0 homework, so
that covers a number of thedirectories and it's really easy
to do that.
Yeah, so I've been putting that.
On that carousel Now we havetalked about obviously a lot of
awards happen throughout theyear Having a dedicated awards
carousel.
Is that something we're goingto be doing?
Sam Sethi (24:03):
Yes, because you asked for it.
Feature queen yes, the awardscarousel is in the offing.
So what will happen is Clairewill be able to go into the
super admin back end forTrueFans and add every podcast
that wins an award to thatawards carousel and name it for
(24:24):
that award.
So we'll have the ear worthycarousel and the date and then
the podcast will appear on thatcarousel and then they will come
off or they'll get hidden andyou'll update it with the next
awards carousel.
The reason is, each carousel canalso become a playlist.
So if you want to simply turn acarousel into your own playlist
(24:46):
, you click on that option, itbecomes your playlist and you
can even edit then the playlist.
So you might say, oh, don'tlisten to what is that?
Pod news, weekly review.
No, not interested in them.
So you can take that off theplaylist and have everything
else still left in.
And then the nice thing is, aseach new episode for those
podcasts come out, they willautomatically update in your
(25:09):
playlist and so you have what wecall dynamic playlists.
So, yes, nice way for you toget introduced to the awards and
the winners and then turn thatinto your playlist and then have
those automatically update whenany new episode appears.
Claire Waite Brown (25:24):
Brilliant.
I was going to ask if it wasgoing to be dynamic, always
dynamic.
Sam Sethi (25:28):
Excellent, Claire.
Any more questions?
Claire Waite Brown (25:35):
dynamic.
Excellent, Claire.
Any more questions?
Last time we were here, wespoke about a way for podcasts
to promote their shows in thesecond slot of the episodes list
of another relevant podcast,and you said that would be ready
by the next time we record.
And here we are are.
I have had people asking meabout how this promo works and
how to get started.
So has TrueFans met thechallenge?
Sam Sethi (25:58):
yes.
So the idea now is I might liketo promote my podcast in your
show, Claire.
Now I don't want to do a feeddrop.
I don't want to inject intoyour audio my episode, right?
I think that, personally, issomething I find quite intrusive
(26:18):
.
My audience may not want tolisten to another one, even if
I've taken some money for it.
But I think what's quite niceand the way that we've done it
is that I can go into mycreator's dashboard.
I can look up a podcast I wantto be promoted on.
I can then send them a request,which is I would like to be
(26:40):
featured on your podcast showpage.
Slot number two is where wehighlight you and the idea is
that I can make an offer.
So I can say I want for sevendays and I'm willing to give you
10,000 sats.
Now you, as the creator, getthat request and you can accept
or reject.
If you reject, I get an emailback going no, don't want you
(27:03):
bugger off.
No, we know we don't say that.
We say it very nicely, butfundamentally, no, you can't be
promoted on my site.
It may be that you haven'tgiven that creator enough money
to incentivize them, or it maybe they just don't want promos
on their site.
But if you are successful andthey accept it, then yes, it
appears.
The order will be your featuredpodcast at the top, which is a
(27:25):
sticky thing, then your latestepisode and then below that
latest episode will be the promoof the podcast you've accepted.
You get the money in yourwallet, seven days passes and
then it automatically getsremoved and that's it, very
simple.
Claire Waite Brown (27:41):
Brilliant.
So that's good on both counts,for the podcast that wants the
promotion and the podcast thatis being promoted upon Brilliant
yes.
Sam Sethi (27:53):
Would you like us to do audio drop-ins to your RSS
feed?
I mean, is that a feature thatyou would like as a creator?
Claire Waite Brown (28:01):
What do you mean?
Sam Sethi (28:02):
So, let's say, I'm Podcasting 2.0 in Practice,
which is one of your podcasts,or Creativity Found, which is
another one, and I, as PodNewsWeekly Review said, which is
another one.
And I, as Podn ews WeeklyReview said, hey, Claire, I want
to actually put my latestepisode in the audio.
So then, what would happen inyour RSS feed when I played
episode your latest episode?
(28:22):
The next episode that wouldplay would be Pod News Weekly
Review and then the thirdepisode would be back to you.
Would you like that, where theperson requesting a promo also
injects their audio into yourRSS feed?
Claire Waite Brown (28:39):
I do do feed swaps with people where I will
say and it will just be atrailer or something, or I will
choose a particular episode thatis relevant to one of my shows.
Creativity Found in this case.
So I get that choice.
I choose an episode, I'll do myown intro for it.
I think the idea of being ableto put kind of pop-up promotions
(29:00):
in there and it's obvious thatthey're promotions from
somewhere else and they don'tnecessarily stay there forever
the flexibility of it I findquite attractive.
So I would like to use thatoption please.
Sam Sethi (29:12):
That's fine.
That's what we thought as well.
So, yes, promos are live on thehomepage, on the Carousels on
the homepage, and also for youto request a promo on someone
else's podcast page.
Claire Waite Brown (29:25):
Here's how you can request to have your
podcast promoted on anothershow's feed.
You need to have claimed yourshow.
If you don't know how to dothis, listen to Podcasting 2.0
in Practice, episode 19, PodrollHomework.
On the desktop version ofTrueFans, not the app, click on
your avatar at top right anddown to Creator's Dashboard.
(29:48):
Click on the pencil icon foryour show.
Go to the promotions tab alongthe top, then click on podcast
promotions.
Search for the show you wouldlike to be promoted on and when
you find it, click on sendrequest.
In the pop-up, adjust theamount of days you would like
the promo to run for and theamount you are willing to pay.
(30:09):
Once submitted, you will bereturned to the podcast
promotion page where yourrequest will be given a waiting
status.
If your request is accepted,you'll receive a notification in
TrueFans and see the acceptedstatus on the podcast promotion
screen, where you can also seethe details of your promotion,
(30:30):
such as duration, booked daysleft and the amount you paid.
If your request is rejected,you will also get a notification
in the app.
You can resubmit at a higherprice if you wish.
Sam, what have you spotted outand about in the world that is
of use and relevance to oursuper independent podcaster
(30:53):
friends.
Sam Sethi (30:54):
So last week, last time we talked about you
literally don't get a secondchance.
So 41% of people said if yourfirst episode's rubbish, they
won't come back for the secondepisode.
That same report now is sayingif you start with too much
meaningless chat, it's justboring and people don't want to
come back to it.
So let's say you and I startedtalking about the Edinburgh
(31:15):
fringe or you getting a sonwho's passed a driving test,
people would go, oh, I don'twant to talk about that.
Sam and Claire, move on right.
There are too many podcaststhat actually spend time at the
beginning doing that.
The data suggests that thefirst 60 seconds of any podcast
are critical.
It's quite harsh but equally, Ithink, quite fair as well.
Claire Waite Brown (31:37):
I don't think it's harsh at all.
I think it's like the headlinesin a newspaper article you want
to say what you're going tostay reading for.
So I do it with CreativityFound and I do it with this show
as well.
I put in three clips that givea taste of what's coming, and I
always choose clips that I thinkare juicy or exciting or
interesting and that takes lessthan 60 seconds straight in with
(32:02):
an intro, straight in with theactual episode.
Sam Sethi (32:04):
Exactly when you're structuring or thinking about
structuring your show.
Claire's done a great job here,taking clips at the beginning,
but certainly please do notstart talking about your
shopping list or where you wenton holiday of your podcast, not
(32:30):
your life.
Claire Waite Brown (32:30):
No one cares about me, and that's quite
right too.
I'm there to showcase my guests, all the important thing I'm
going to talk about, not me.
I don't matter.
Sam Sethi (32:35):
Yeah, Like you do to Andrew, and you know the
children, but that's fine, areyou sure?
I'm not putting that to thetest.
Anyway, now events that peoplemight be interested in going
along to.
Some of these are UK based,some of these are international.
We always try to look aroundthe globe.
So the London Podcast Festivalis this September.
(32:55):
It's the 10th year at King'sPlace.
If you're interested in seeingsome of your favourite podcasts
live, go to their website andhave a look.
It's between the 4th and the14th of September.
Claire Waite Brown (33:07):
And alongside the live shows, I
believe that there is anotherpart of it called the Podcast
Makers Weekend, which is aseries of workshops offering
practical insights into podcastcreation, with affordable
sessions designed for newcomersand more experienced producers.
(33:28):
So that's part of that festivalfrom the 13th to the 14th of
September, and you can finddetails of the workshops for
that on the website as well.
Sam Sethi (33:36):
Now if you're thinking of entering your
podcast for an award, the APAsare the Audio UK Awards.
They will be live on Novemberthe 27th at the BFI in London,
but you have until the 17th ofSeptember to enter.
So if you think your podcast isworth an award or an
outstanding achievement, go forit.
(33:58):
You'll find that on the AudioUK website.
Claire Waite Brown (34:01):
Brilliant and good luck.
Now, Sam, I've heard you'regoing somewhere rather nice for
another podcast event in October.
Please tell.
Sam Sethi (34:11):
Well, I need to top up the tan, although they do say
the rain in Spain stays mainlyin the plane.
But hopefully it won't be inMadrid, because, yes, I'll be in
Madrid on the 2nd and 3rd ofOctober at Podcast Days in Spain
.
Other speakers will be EricNewsome and Megan Davis from
Acast, Todd Cochrane fromBlubrry, and there's a host of
(34:32):
Spanish speakers as well.
I'm really looking forward toit.
Very nice to go along.
Claire Waite Brown (34:36):
Make sure you collect some indie European
podcasts for me to feature inthe future on this show.
Sam Sethi (34:44):
Bring them in the handbag.
Claire Waite Brown (34:45):
No, no no, just get their details, just get
the shows.
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (34:52):
And lastly, there's the Lovie Awards, something that
maybe we'll enter for now I'mjoking.
The Lovey Awards has extendedits deadline entry date until
Friday, the 19th of September.
Again, please have a look atthis.
The event is Europe's Awardsfor Online Creativity.
If you think you qualify for it, go for it, because you know
you've got to be in it to win it.
Claire Waite Brown (35:13):
I'm at an awards ceremony in September as
well.
Sam Sethi (35:16):
Are you, where are you going?
Claire Waite Brown (35:18):
It's the Digital Women Awards and I put
Podcasting 2.0 in there as apodcast, so it's just one
category.
The category is businesspodcasts, which Podcasting 2.0
is.
If you're in the business ofpodcasting, yes, you know, give
it a go.
Sam Sethi (35:36):
Go for it and obviously you'll win it for
certain when you do Podcasting3.0 in practice.
Claire Waite Brown (35:42):
Subtle hint nudge.
It's always on the back of mymind.
Sam Sethi (35:45):
Anyway, Claire, and that's it for this week.
Thanks for tuning in.
Our audio is recorded onRiverside, edited by the
wonderful Claire, and we'rehosted by Busss prout.
Claire Waite Brown (35:55):
You can support this show by streaming
from your TrueFans wallet orleave us a super comment, as I
mentioned earlier, by pressingthe speech icon or the thing
called comments.
Better still, you can alsobecome a monthly supporter of
this show.
Sam Sethi (36:12):
If you'd like to promote your podcast on Creators
from TrueFans you know we justtalked about promoting it.
You can now send us a requestand it'll go to Claire.
It doesn't come to me, so don'tblame me if you don't get
promoted.
Just blame Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (36:25):
But no, we get an admin dashboard update
notification and, yes, hopefullywe will be promoting you on
TrueFans that would be brilliant, and you can find out more
about how to use the features ofthe TrueFans platform by
listening to our sister podcastfan zone.
It's a step-by-step, bite-sizedseries covering one aspect at a
(36:49):
time, and similar to that.
If you're keen to learn moreabout Podcasting 2.0 in general,
check out my course-basedpodcast called Podcasting 2.0 in
Practice, of which my finalholiday homework update episode
went out today, and that tellsyou how to withdraw your sats
(37:09):
from TrueFans into Stripe so youcan take them out into the real
world and spend them as realmoney.
Yes, so catch up on that one.
Sam Sethi (37:18):
So if you have had fans who've paid you now you can
take the money out and put itback into your bank account.
Claire Waite Brown (37:25):
Don't forget , you can keep listening to hear
more from this episode'sfeatured creator.
Sam Sethi (37:32):
Now what's the one word of advice, now that you've
done it for four or five yearsthat you would say, hmm, I would
have done it differently.
Now you can look back on thearc of all the podcast episodes.
David John Clark (37:44):
I did think consistency was the word and
it's not really a piece ofadvice to give my old self in
hindsight, because that'sactually what my flow was but I
would have to tell myself, eventhough that's what's helped me
get to today I think I'm at 53episodes it would be a good
reminder and a motivational pushin those early days when you
(38:05):
think what am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
Because we all know that mostpodcasts can't get past seven
episodes.
So you need that understandingthat it's just that consistency
to keep pushing through.
And if there was a point therewhere I was thinking about
quitting in the early days Idon't think there was in my case
, but consistency would becertainly the word I would give
myself or anyone else for sure.
Sam Sethi (38:27):
What's your recording setup?
What's your equipment?
What do you use?
Did you start with what youcurrently use today?
David John Clark (38:35):
Pretty much.
I think I had one of thosegeneric microphones that
everyone says don't use.
I think Claire uses it.
Sam Sethi (38:45):
Yeti.
David John Clark (38:46):
Yes, the Yeti.
I think I had one of them, butI pretty much quickly found some
some cash for Christmas, Ithink and I upgraded to the
setup that I've got now.
And Rode is my chosen brand.
It's an Australian brand, whichis brilliant.
It's one of the best, if notone of the best in the world for
for this, the Podbike goes intoa Rode interface.
(39:07):
It's a simple one.
I don't have the fancy buttonsand sounds and everything like
that, because I don't reallyneed it and it does the job and
when you record, what softwaredo you use?
I did a bit of research at thestart.
I knew that there were issueswith Zoom.
I'm sorry, Zoom, dropping youlike that but I'd listened to
podcasts where I knew what thesound quality was and that
they'd recorded in Zoom.
I'd listened to podcasts whereI knew what the sound quality
(39:27):
was and that they'd recorded inZoom.
I came up with two options,which was Descript and Riverside
FM.
For whatever directed me, Ithink it came down to money.
At the time Riverside was thecheaper monthly option and I
went with Riverside and I'vebeen with them since day one and
it has been a journey of upsand downs, like any company as
they get better.
I can say now after three yearsit is just absolutely brilliant
(39:52):
to recall with him.
It's fun and just makeseverything so easy.
You can edit everything in itnow and it makes it so
professional because I don'thave any audio background
limited editing and software,that side of things and it just
makes it a breeze for punchingout an episode.
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com