October 27, 2025 • 39 mins
Are you struggling to break into the media industry or advance your career? David Spencer, who created The Media Mentor brand twenty years ago, shares why he launched The Media Mentor podcast as a powerful audio tool to help people navigate the "mystifying world of recruitment".
Episode Highlights You Won't Want to Miss:
- The Power of Audio: Discover why David, a long-time lover of audio who always dreamt of working in radio, believes podcasting is a "beautiful powerful way to communicate".
- The Video Frustration: Hear David's strong feelings on the general trend that "everything has to be video," arguing that a podcast is inherently not video and that the industry risks losing the magic of audio storytelling by becoming too fixated on video.
- Structuring Success: Learn how David structures his show to provide maximum value, balancing direct advice (theory on CVs and cover letters) with client case studies (brilliant stories and great learning experiences), and expert industry interviews (including a crucial episode on AI and recruitment).
- The Business of Podcasting: David explains how his podcast functions as a form of "soft power," helping to build the brand of The Media Mentor and showing the value of being a human character behind the brand.
Plus, Sam and Claire Dive into Exciting TrueFans Updates:
- Fairer Podcast Hosting is Coming: Sam shares exciting news about the progression of the new TrueFans hosting service, with the waitlist expected to open at the end of the month.
- Value-for-Value Pricing Explained: Learn about TrueFans' innovative hosting plan based on listen time rather than fixed fees or downloads. Sam reveals how the pricing works: you are charged a maximum amount (e.g., $15/£15), but if you use less listen time, you are charged less. Any unused allocation rolls over into the next month.
- Boosting Discovery: Claire praises the TrueFans' homepage, which highlights the latest episodes rather than shows promoted by huge PR budgets.
Hear more about why Sam believes independent podcasters are the "bread and butter" and "lifeline" of the industry, and stick around after the main interview for more from David and Claire on authenticity in audio and the difficulty of not spreading yourself too thinly across social media.
Don't forget: You can support this show by streaming SATs from your TrueFans wallet or leaving a super comment!
Listen to The Media Mentor here
Find TrueFans here
Music: How It Is from Ketsa Music
Feedback: TrueFans Support
Read: Creators Blog
Recommendations: Creators Podroll
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Spencer (00:09):
Something appealed about audio, and that
still 30 odd years later reallyexcites me about talking to one
person.
You're inside someone's head inpodcasting often because you're
listening with headphones,you're talking to one person,
not a group.
It's such a beautiful, powerfulway to communicate, whether
it's a narrative podcast aboutthe Titanic or whether it's
trying to help people with mediacareers.
(00:31):
It's just beautiful.
And that still excites me now.
Sam Sethi (00:36):
If we said that that entry plan was £15 or $15, or if
you don't use all the listentime, should we just charge you
for it?
Well we thought no.
We thought what we should beable to do, because we can
measure it, is that it's amaximum amount we will charge
you.
So we'll only charge you up to$15 if you use all of that
(00:57):
listen time.
But if you use less, we'llcharge you less, you might only
get charged $5 or $8 or $7.99because we can do it very
accurately.Welcome to Creatorsfrom TrueFans.
I'm independent podcasterClaire Waite Brown.
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO ofTrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:17):
Each episode we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:25):
And we'll on questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity, andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:34):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:40):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world
that could be of benefit toindependent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:47):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:48):
Very well, how are you?
Claire Waite Brown (01:50):
Good, thank you.
Sam Sethi (01:51):
Claire, which independent podcaster are we
featuring this week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:56):
This time I'm chatting with David Spencer,
otherwise known as the MediaMentor.
I'm chatting today with DavidSpencer.
Hi David, how are you?
I'm very well.
How are you?
Yeah, very good, thank you.
Start by telling me, please,the name of your show and what
it's all about.
David Spencer (02:17):
Well, the podcast is called the Media Mentor
Podcast, because the MediaMentor is a brand that I created
about 20 years ago as a sort ofofficial way to do what I kind
of started to do as a bit of aside hustle, which was helping
people with CVs and mediacareers, specifically media
(02:37):
careers.
So the podcast is centeredaround that work.
It's about helping peopleunderstand what is a mystifying
world of recruitment, but alsospecifically around the media
industry and how you canprogress your career, whether
you're 20 years old and you'retrying to get in, or if you're
in your 50s and trying to moveinto a new job, having not had
(03:00):
to use the CV for probably 30years.
Claire Waite Brown (03:03):
I have experience of that at the
moment, not for myself, but withpeople I know.
And the way you have to do CVsthese days is very different
from the last time I had to doone.
David Spencer (03:15):
It's mystifying, as I say.
That's a word I use a lot.
Just recruitment is.
But also there's a lot of noisearound what you do with a CV.
And I think in some industriesit's quite simple.
But in media, we're we tend tobe quite technically skilled,
but we just have no idea what itshould say and how it should
say it on paper.
And in media, there are somecertain things that we need to
(03:37):
do.
So the podcast was a way to tryand get to the stage of helping
more people by hearing me andpart of the sort of you know,
trying to increase awareness ofwhat the media mentor is, and me
becoming, you know, a littlebit more from behind the brand
and not being this hidden thingof who is the media mentor and
people actually hearing me.
Claire Waite Brown (03:54):
Yeah, that's actually kind of answering my
next question, but I'll ask itin case there's something extra
to add.
Why did you want to start it?
David Spencer (04:03):
Well, because I love audio.
I always wanted to be in radiofrom the age of 11 and 12, and
I've been lucky enough to do thethings that I dreamt about
doing and working in podcastingand creating audio like I'd
been.
It was crazy that there wasn'ta media mentor podcast.
But we'll discuss this.
It's finding time around allthe other things that happen in
(04:25):
life, finding the daylight to doit.
And I had lots of excuses as towhy I couldn't, don't have
enough time.
We choose to fill our time withwhat we choose to fill it with.
So that was always a bit of anexcuse.
So I wanted to get there and doit because it made sense as
someone who loves audio.
And to be honest, as you'llnotice with this podcast,
someone who likes talking outloud and likes the sound of
(04:47):
their own voice, that's peoplein in in radio in a nutshell.
So I'm really glad that I'vegot there and finally done it.
And and I'll be honest withyou, Claire, I just, you know, I
said to some people I wasteaching the other day, whatever
you produce, be proud and behappy that you've done it.
And I am just very proud,actually, of how it's turned
out.
So maybe the timing was justright.
(05:07):
You know, if I'd done this two,three, five years ago, maybe it
wouldn't have been quite whatit is now.
Claire Waite Brown (05:12):
Thank you.
I very much like that wholeloving audio side of things.
I think there can be a tendencyto think I won't do it yet
because I won't be perfect or Idon't know enough about it.
And sometimes you just have togo, right, let's do it and see
how it goes.
Super.
How do you decide episodelevel, like what you're gonna
(05:35):
talk about, who your guests aregonna be, that kind of thing?
David Spencer (05:39):
Well, I decided eventually, considering I've
already admitted I thought aboutit for quite a long time and
was shaping it like sort of onthe potter's wheel for quite a
long time, that I wanted to do anumber of things, and I have to
give some credit to Mrs.
Mentor, actually, who said, Whydon't you speak to the people
you've helped?
Why don't you use the casestudies of people you've worked
(06:00):
with?
Which had sort of occurred tome, but not quite in the way
that she sort of suggested,because they all have brilliant
stories and such great learningexperiences for the audience.
So I decided to sort ofstructure it in a way that did
three things.
So there are episodes where Iwill talk a lot about my theory
(06:21):
about stuff, so direct adviceabout CBs and cover letters.
I wanted to speak to thoseprevious clients, people I've
helped over the last 20 or soyears, to get their stories.
But I also wanted to speak topeople in the industry, whether
that's recruitment industry orwhether it's in media, about
their experiences and theirinsights.
So we've done an episode on AIand recruitment, which is such
(06:44):
an important topic right now.
So, in a way, the content ideasare numerous because there's so
much to talk about.
But what I quite like is thatbalance between, you know,
you're not necessarily beinglectured at, which is obviously
something that I do as a job.
One of the things I do is Iteach at a university.
So lecturing is is something Ido.
And when you do that, you don'twant to talk at people.
(07:06):
You you want to talk to or withpeople.
So I wanted it to feel likethat, that it was an experience
that gave insight, but also someof that experiential stuff.
So actually, Claire, I mean,there's a lot to cover, as you
can imagine, and also justdifferent opinions, because I
will always say, I will caveatwhatever I say, this is my view.
(07:27):
Someone may disagree.
So I think that's important tokind of get into as well and
hear from people who havedifferent perspectives.
Claire Waite Brown (07:36):
I'm smiling at the caveat.
I have a number of caveats insome of my other shows.
I was like, things may changein the future.
Please like use your commonsense.
David Spencer (07:47):
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Claire Waite Brown (07:49):
You've touched on time and fitting it
in.
So how do you?
Do you have a particularschedule?
Do you have any processes thathelp you fit this in with
everything else in life?
David Spencer (08:03):
Well, I did a podcast a few years ago, which
was about learning to swimcompletely off my own back,
about being an adult andlearning to swim.
Or, as I've told my audience onthis podcast, not learning to
swim as it turned out.
But I learned lots except thekey thing.
When I made that podcast, Imade a mistake in that I was
(08:23):
very excited about doing it.
I very luckily got some lessonsas part of the podcast that
were, you know, sort ofsponsored in effect.
So it was with officialorganization.
And I put out the first episodevery excitedly.
And then it was weeks before Igot the second one done because
I'd got my lessons and I'd hadother things.
And I learned at that pointwhat everyone now really does
(08:45):
know in podcasting, which is youshould have a good schedule.
And if you are launching,launch with two, three, at least
three episodes in the can, butlaunch with two episodes at
least at the start.
Go with not just one, but two.
So I do have a schedule.
I got lots of case studies andinterviews with former clients
ready, and there are still lotsthat I haven't done.
(09:08):
I do find that fitting it inaround other stuff isn't a
problem, Claire, because as Isaid to a student this week, it
doesn't feel like work when I doit.
But I think that's notnecessarily helpful for people
doing this because it is workand you do need to schedule in
the time properly.
So although I love doing it andI love audio, I think you've
(09:31):
got to make sure you give itenough time, you give respect to
it and you don't throw it away.
So fitting it around otherstuff is tricky, but actually,
like anything, make sure youschedule time.
Put it in a calendar, make sureyou do that.
So I think researching takes alot of time, finding guests can
take a lot of time.
So really build in all of thosebits so that you can see it in
(09:55):
a calendar.
It's something I love doing,but just because of that, don't
dismiss it as something, oh, Ican just do it at the weekend.
You should be able to try andfind ways to do it properly in a
work schedule.
Claire Waite Brown (10:07):
That is very sensible advice.
Advice which I know I do notcurrently take myself, but I
understand it.
Very good advice that I shoulddo.
David Spencer (10:20):
Claire, can I share a secret with you, which
uh I think some people that havecertainly met the media mentor
and had conversations with meknow a lot of the things I say I
don't necessarily abide bymyself.
You should see my CV.
Um, but that's a differentstory.
Claire Waite Brown (10:35):
Perfect.
We are all human.
Do as I say, not as I do.
Sam Sethi (10:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (10:42):
Okay.
In the world of podcastinggenerally, what is one thing
that frustrates you and thencounter that with something
that, you know, really excitesyou or makes you happy?
David Spencer (10:53):
Well, I do really love audio, as I mentioned
earlier.
For some reason, somethingconnected before I turned into
my teen years, listening tomusic, love music, but talking
out loud, playing music wassomething that I just started
doing, and I can't think whatthat process was.
But I knew that I likedtalking, and I knew that I liked
(11:15):
entertaining people in thatsense.
But I also knew I didn't wantto be seen when I did that.
So when I got into radio, wedidn't have cameras, we didn't
have to be online, we didn'thave look like a TV show in our
studios.
I could do it in a box and noone see me and have confidence.
Because to be honest, I reallywasn't very confident.
I certainly couldn't imaginestanding in front of, you know,
(11:37):
a hundred students teaching.
You know, even when I startedradio, it was really good for my
confidence, but I was stillvery shy.
And so something appealed aboutaudio, and that still, 30 odd
years later, really excites meabout talking to one person.
You're inside someone's head inpodcasting often, because
you're listening withheadphones, you're talking to
one person, not a group.
(11:58):
It's such a beautiful, powerfulway to communicate, whether
it's a narrative podcast aboutthe Titanic or whether it's
trying to help people with mediacareers.
It's just beautiful.
And that still excites me now.
But the counterpoint, the onethat you ask, is the bit that
doesn't excite me and frustratesme.
Because we now know that videois the ruler online and social,
(12:22):
so that everything has to bevideo.
But to me, a podcast is notvideo.
The whole name comes from iPodand broadcast.
It's a podcast, it's somethingyou listen to.
And I think if you look atsomething, firstly that could be
TV.
There are a lot of podcaststhat are just like a TV show, or
it's a video.
And I know I'm being I'mpushing against the general
(12:43):
trend, Claire, of what peoplethink.
But to be honest, there aremany things you can't do with
video that you can do withaudio, and one of those key
things is that one-on-one thing,and just that magic of being in
someone's head and thosebeautiful immersive stories that
you can do.
And I think we're in danger oflosing that if we get too
(13:07):
fixated with video in the sortof way that we generally talk
about it now.
Claire Waite Brown (13:12):
Yeah.
Now you are the media mediamentor, and you've talked about
how this connects with a workingrole.
So do you think that by havingthis podcast that brings more
business your way?
I don't think you necessarilyinvented it for that purpose,
(13:34):
but is that a happy circumstancefrom it?
Are there ways in which itsupports your work that you earn
money for?
And also from a podcast on itsown point of view, does it
generate any financial support?
David Spencer (13:50):
On that last point, no.
Very early stages for any ofthat.
I'd rather hopefully leavethose two good ad breaks that I
have in it for uh ads to dropin, but know that that's not
going to happen at this stage.
Someone said a quote to meearly on with the media mentor
that said about how I sharedjobs, and at that point Twitter
was much more of a thing than itis now, and I was sharing
(14:13):
opportunities in that way andbuilding up a bit of a
following.
And they said it's like a softpower thing that you do.
You're like, here are somejobs, but by the way, I can help
you apply for those jobs.
And that's very much the way Isee the podcast.
As I mentioned earlier, it's away to kind of lift the veil a
little bit on, despite how Imight sound, someone who's not
(14:33):
particularly keen on thespotlight, but does like to
express an opinion.
And certainly I get greatpleasure from helping people and
advancing people's career.
And the podcast is a way tosort of underline that and to
build the brand of the mediamentor a little bit.
Because I think a lot ofpeople, yeah, my wife used to
hate these stories, but I be itevents or something, and someone
(14:56):
sort of say, Oh, what you do?
I'll, you know, this, this, andthis, and also I do the media
mentor job feed.
Oh my, oh my gosh, you're themedia mentor.
And obviously I love thingslike that because it was like,
oh, I good for my ego.
But also I was a little bitbehind the brand in that sense.
And I think these days we'velearned, and I think this is
true for my limited sort ofbusiness acumen, is that
(15:18):
actually being human and being asort of character behind a
brand is actually reallyvaluable because then it's just
not the media mentor as a bigsort of company who are these
people.
There's actually David behindit.
And of course, the whole pointof this was people came to me
because they liked my style,they liked my support.
(15:38):
So why wouldn't I then put thaton a podcast where you can,
coming back to what I was sayingabout why I love audio, it's
such an honest form ofcommunication.
I don't think anyone really canact out on a podcast.
If I hear people and I thinkdon't really like them, probably
there might be some truth inthe fact that there may be
(15:58):
someone that I don't reallylike.
If I like, you know, how theysound and how they feel on a
podcast, I know if I meet them,that's what they'll be like.
That's my general view.
It's a it's a bit of a a sortof sweeping statement, but audio
is so honest in that sense.
Claire Waite Brown (16:13):
I completely agree.
I mean, I've listened to yourshow and I thought, well, he
seems like a terribly nice chap,and I would be the way you
talk, but also, you know, theway you speak with your guests,
the respect that you have thereand the topic that you speak
about, you know, how you'vehelped them.
It's the voice behind what Isee on your website shows me
(16:35):
that this is a person I think Icould probably get along with.
Absolutely agree.
Now I'm going to talk to youabout podcasting 2.0.
What do you know about anythingwith regards to podcasting 2.0
and its features?
David Spencer (16:48):
Well, I read a bit after we agreed to do this
interview, and I was intriguedbecause it was sort of about
making, you know, sort ofpodcasting, or in in in a sense,
sort of much more 2025, perhapsin effect, but what does that
mean and being a bit moredynamic?
And I have no podcasting 2.0features.
I don't understand things likeRSS feeds.
(17:09):
I've always been someone who'skind of uses those things and
kind of doesn't understand howsomething gets from A to B.
In radio, we worked with lotsof people, Claire, that would
love transmitter information,you know, were very geeky about
that sort of stuff, which Iadmired.
I had no idea how what I wassaying was getting to someone's
radio in Slough if I was doing aradio show.
(17:31):
I was just glad that they couldhear me.
So, in some sense, the advanceof what this is confuses and
also I guess intrigues mebecause I do know, given what
we've said about video andpodcast and where we are, that
there are lots of things notworking well for the podcasting
(17:54):
industry and maybe can be betterfor creators, but also for just
generally us understandingwho's listening to what, when,
how, and in those kind of ways,because data collection is is
such a mess for podcasting.
So, in a way, long answer tosay not using any features, and
to be honest at this stage, nothugely understanding of what
(18:15):
they could do for me.
Claire Waite Brown (18:17):
Absolutely, you are not alone in that
opinion.
I'm with you.
I do not know how it getsthere.
I know it goes in the RSS feed,but I don't need to know how it
gets there or how it works whenit does get there.
What I want to know is why it'sgood for me.
As you've just said, you knowhow it can help me.
So when I did my podcast calledPodcasting 2.0 in Practice,
(18:41):
that's what I wanted tocommunicate to other podcasters.
So I break it down intoindividual features like
transcripts or chapters.
What we're looking at is why itcould help you with discovery
or why it could help you withinteractivity.
And then a bit further down theline, there's some monetization
because it does all seem a bitoverwhelming, especially if you
(19:05):
listen to or research.
Thank you very much for doing alittle bit of research there.
But when you start researching,you might get bamboozled with
like, these are all these tags,and this is all you can do, and
this is SAT.
And then you go, okay, no, thisis above me.
I just want to get my show outand find some more listeners.
But there are some nice littleways you can do it.
One I thought that might begood for your show, and it's
(19:29):
starting to be supported more bypodcast listening apps than it
was when I made Podcast and 2.0in Practice, and it's called Pod
Roll.
And on TrueFans, you'll find itunder recommendations.
And on Pocket Casts, I thinkthey call it recommendations as
well.
And what it means is that you,as the podcaster, can recommend
(19:49):
other podcasts that obviouslythat you recommend.
So I think in your fields, thatcould be quite a good one.
Equally, you would say to theother podcasts, I'm putting your
show in my pod role.
This is my show.
Would you like to put me inyours?
So it's a way of podcastershelping each other to be
discovered, especially, youknow, us independent podcasters,
(20:11):
we want to help each other outand we need as much help as we
can get.
David Spencer (20:15):
Yes, exactly.
And a lot in what you said, sothe sort of the discovery
aspect, uh, which we know inpodcasting isn't a strength, and
the chapters is something thatreally interests me, and I use
in another podcast that Icreate.
But I I think the community, Idid a a podcast awards or
attended an awards recentlywhere I judged some of the
podcasts in publishing, and theytalked a lot about how
(20:37):
community was certainly arevelation to them and how
building communities wassomething they were doing with
podcasts, and then it benefitedthe publishing side, as in, you
know, the written side of thepublication, which to me was
like, you've just discoveredthat, you know, communities are
good.
That's what radio is.
You build a community, you'rein a community.
And I think with podcasts,that's a real strength.
(20:59):
And if you can get sort of across-community connection, then
that can feed each other.
Because we know there's such asea of content out there, but
there are some amazing thingsthat aren't being heard, and
there are some not so amazingthings that are being heard by
lots of people, and I think itwould just be good to get a
little bit more across because Ithink discovery is one of the
(21:22):
weakest sides of podcasting.
Also, just being slightly lazyin the doing, you know, you
asked about time and making apodcast.
Also, researching that andgetting your head around that,
that all takes time too.
So, what better way than apodcast to listen to it?
Because you can do that asyou're doing something else.
We know that that is thestrength of audio, so I will do
(21:42):
that.
It's on the to-do list, Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (21:44):
Oh, lovely.
Thank you so much.
One of the things I talk aboutin that show is called
streaming, and that means yourlisteners can pay you
micropayments, so tiny amountsper minute that they listen to
your show.
I've done that for your show.
I'm just gonna say when youclaim your show on TrueFans,
(22:04):
that money will have been savedinto a little digital wallet for
you.
So even though your maybe yourshow isn't claimed yet on
TrueFans, anybody that streamsany payments to you, your
payments will be saved.
And eventually when you add upsome money, you can take it out
into Stripe and go and buyyourself a cup of tea.
David Spencer (22:21):
Amazing.
Oh, well, I appreciate that.
And I mean it's such a like Isay, there's people with
brilliant ideas, greatcreativity that we know can do
it.
Like when I was 11 or 12 doinga radio show just to no one in
my bedroom, now you can turnthat into something that you
create.
You can make a podcast soeasily that ways to support
people doing that, and that willhelp with diversity too, in
(22:44):
that encouraging everyone tothink that they can do that and
not just sort of traditionalbrands.
So I think that's veryexciting.
Claire Waite Brown (22:51):
Tell me, David, how people can find
everything that you do, please.
David Spencer (22:56):
Well, the media mentor is on all the socials.
That is exhausting to be on allthe socials.
So in the good old days,Twitter was the sort of
foundation of that, but thesedays X is kind of pointless.
I think a lot of people havemoved from X to LinkedIn.
You'll find me on LinkedIn asDavid Spencer or the Media
Mentor.
Themediamentor.info is mywebsite where you can read a
(23:17):
little bit more about what I do.
But I'm the media mentor in allthe different places Instagram,
Blue Sky, Threads, etc.
Claire Waite Brown (23:24):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
David Spencer (23:26):
Pleasure.
Claire Waite Brown (23:28):
David and I carried on the conversation,
exploring a little more aboutauthenticity in audio and video.
Plus, we talk about notspreading ourselves too thinly
when it comes to the dreadedsocial media.
And you can hear that at theend of this episode of Creators.
Sam Sethi (23:46):
There is a link to the Media Mentor in the show
notes, and new episodes arehighlighted on the homepage at
TrueFans, so the podcast is easyfor you to find there.
Claire Waite Brown (23:55):
And if you'd like to explore anything that
David and I talked about in thatinterview, please leave us a
comment or super comment, whichis really easy to do in TrueFans
by clicking on the speechbubble icon or the tab called
comments under the icons.
Sam Sethi (24:11):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
Creators from TrueFans?
Claire Waite Brown (24:17):
Please do.
I would love to chat with you.
If you'd like to chat with usabout your independent podcast
or your music, send a comment orsuper comment in TrueFans to
any creators episode by clickingon the speech bubble icon or on
the comments tab.
Sam Sethi (24:34):
So Claire, question time.
What do you want to ask me thisweek?
Claire Waite Brown (24:39):
I wanted to ask about the hosting.
As in True Fans As We Know is abrilliant podcast listening app
that supports loads of extrafeatures, but you are also
branching out into hosting.
Where are you at in thatjourney?
Sam Sethi (25:00):
Very excitingly, we are progressing very well.
We expect to open the wait listat the end of this month.
Testing has shown us that wecan now move with two clicks any
podcast from an existing hostover to TrueFans.
And that's very exciting.
We want to make this asseamless and simple as possible.
We need to do a few moretechnical things, which is why
(25:22):
the wait list will open ratherthan going directly to the
product and the plans.
Now the pricing page will alsobe available this week.
We're very excited on the waythat we're testing pricing.
I'd love your thoughts.
And equally leave us a supercomment as well if you think
what we're doing is good or bad.
The way that we want to do itis based on value for value.
(25:45):
Now, value for value, you mayhave heard the term before from
Claire or myself, is the ideawhen you're paying as a fan to a
podcast creator, you go, Oh, Ithink this is worth 50p a minute
or a hundred laps a minute.
And that's the value you'regiving back to the creator, and
they give you value in the formof the podcast.
(26:05):
So it's an exchange of value.
That's great.
And most hosts today willcharge you a fixed fee for your
entry level or your pro level oryour pro plus level.
And irrespective of whether youuse all the downloads in the
case of companies like Captivateor number of hours in the case
(26:26):
of BuzzSprout, you pay a fixedamount.
Well, that's not really valuefor value.
So what we want to do is notuse the metric of downloads,
because a download is not aplay.
But we want to use a metriccalled listen time.
And that's what we show you inyour creator's dashboard how
many minutes or hours did peoplelisten to your podcast.
(26:47):
That's the thing that reallymatters.
That's the only thing thatreally matters, actually.
And so when you sign up to oneof TrueFan's hosting plans, you
will get a number of hoursallocated to you for that plan.
And based on that, you will beable to say, right, this episode
(27:07):
had 20 people listen to it andI had one hour, 10 minutes of
listen time on aggregate.
And that gets taken off yourplan.
If we said that that entry planwas £15 or $15, well, if you
don't use all the listen time,should we just charge you for
it?
Well we thought no.
We thought what we should beable to do, because we can
(27:29):
measure it is that it's amaximum amount we will charge
you.
So we will only charge you upto $15 if you use all of that
listen time.
But if you use less, we'llcharge you less.
So you might only get charged$5 or $8 or $799 because we can
do it very accurately.
So that's the way that we lookat it.
(27:50):
And if there's extra money thatyou've got left, you can roll
that money over into your nextmonth.
Again, we think it's value forvalue, but you pay for the
amount of data and the amount oflisten time that your fans are
listening to.
And we only charge you for theamount.
We don't charge you for excessthat you don't use.
So we think that's a good plan.
Claire Waite Brown (28:11):
Yes, it does sound very fair.
The rolling over is generous,isn't it?
Sam Sethi (28:17):
We would charge you £15 at the beginning of the
month, right?
We'll charge you that fullamount.
But let's say you get to theend of the amount if you uh only
use £10 worth of yourallocation.
Well we don't keep the fivepounds, we just roll that into
your next plan.
So instead of you being charged£15 again next month, we only
charge you ten pounds becauseyou've got five pounds in your
(28:37):
kitty already.
And now if you get to the full£15, excellent, well done you.
So we could just send you anotification.
We won't charge you any morefor the first time you go over
because it's not your fault.
You're not sure how many peopleare listening to your episodes.
You might be super successfulthat month and didn't know it
was going to happen.
So we'll say to you, look, bythe way, Claire, you went over.
(28:59):
If it happens again, then wewould recommend that you upgrade
your plan to the next level.
And so that gives you then alittle bit of leeway.
But you know that at the £30mark, if you go to £18, you're
still going to get the moneycoming back to you.
So you're not you're not losingout.
It's just we will charge it upto the amount that you're using.
Claire Waite Brown (29:19):
Yeah, you've got nothing to lose.
Sam Sethi (29:21):
No.
Claire Waite Brown (29:22):
I just want to clarify this, because we've
talked a lot about TrueFans isits own thing.
But when when we're talkingabout TrueFans as a hosting
company, we do mean that we'regetting those numbers from all
the other apps.
You've got listeners on Spotifyor Apple or Fountain or Podcast
Guru.
That'll do for now, Claire.
Those figures are all cominginto your true fans, and that's
(29:45):
what it's all being calculatedon, isn't it?
Sam Sethi (29:48):
Correct.
And we've done something superclever because we do two things.
We with your MP3 file, youraudio file, we can actually
stream that audio.
profile in small little chunksso we know exactly when people
stop listening.
Not just on TrueFans, but onany app.
And that's how we can measureit.
(30:09):
We're also using a newtechnology on TrueFans called
HLS, which is an Appletechnology, which again breaks
up the audio into small littlechunks so we can measure how
long your listener actuallylistened.
This is in contrary to the waythat the industry works.
The industry will download thewhole episode before people play
(30:31):
back.
We will download six secondchunks.
So we're streaming the data toyou.
And that's the differencebetween true fans and everyone
else.
Claire Waite Brown (30:40):
And as a creator, I don't need to do
anything special, do I?
You're doing all the specialstuff.
I just do my normal stuff.
Sam Sethi (30:48):
Exactly.
And that's the point, you know,the old swan adage on the
surface as a creator you donothing different.
You you just grace along as youwould normally and we will
distribute your podcast to allthe places you want it to go and
people will listen to yourpodcast on those platforms.
But underneath we're doing allthe clever switching and
calculating and measuring andpricing.
(31:08):
Yeah that's what we do.
Claire Waite Brown (31:10):
Brilliant.
Very exciting.
Looking forward to trying itall out.
Sam Sethi (31:15):
You and me both.
Claire Waite Brown (31:18):
What about the podcasting world in general?
Anything that you foundinteresting, fun happening?
Sam Sethi (31:26):
Well we went to the independent podcast awards this
week together, didn't we?
Claire Waite Brown (31:29):
We did.
Sam Sethi (31:30):
Congratulations to all the organizers for another
wonderful event.
And it was good fun as well.
You saw people that you knowthat we call friends within the
industry.
I did the same and I met lotsof new people and I just think
they're fun real world events togo to.
What were your thoughts?
Claire Waite Brown (31:46):
I had a lot of fun.
It's so super friendly.
I did meet a whole load of newpeople again which was brilliant
some of whom are going to comeand be interviewed for creators
from TrueFans.
So that's um also exciting.
I had noticed this whenoriginally I was adding the
nominees to the awards page atTrueFans for the independent
(32:06):
podcast awards was thecreativity and the inventiveness
in some of these shows was juststaggering.
It was very good to see thosekind of shows being recognized
and rewarded.
Sam Sethi (32:19):
Yeah I think you know Apple and Spotify and and
YouTube all have their place butthey're big players in the
market and they're paid by PRcompanies and they're influenced
if not directly paid to put thebig shows up there.
You know, this week JamesCorden released his show from
Sirius XM.
I'm sure he's on every homepage right I'm sure anytime
(32:41):
anyone releases a big podcastwith a budget behind it, with a
team behind it, that they'veknocked on the door of Apple to
say can we be on the new andnoteworthy?
And that's fine and that'sthat's you know what people
should do.
I like the fact that we'rebringing to the surface and
helping people to discover newindependent podcast creators
because that is the bread andbutter, the lifeline of
(33:04):
podcasting because the big showswill come and go, but those
mainstream long tail podcastersthey're the ones who are doing
it for love, not money.
They're going to be here whenlet's say some of those bigger
ones have gone.
Claire Waite Brown (33:17):
Yeah.
I just wanted actually you'vereminded me I'm going to bring
this in here now another form ofdiscovery for true fans is that
we will put up on our lists,for example our categories
lists, what appears at the frontof that list, apart from maybe
if there's been a promotion willbe latest episodes.
(33:40):
So it's always changing.
I am always looking at mycategories on my homepage to see
what's on that list now becausethat is just what's come out
today, you know, not what I'mmaybe being fed or not what
somebody has a PR budget topromote.
Exactly.
And I have found shows thatway.
So that's another thing Ireally like about using the
TrueFans homepage.
Sam Sethi (34:01):
I think we've got now a number of really cool ways to
discover.
We've got the homepage we'vegot pod roles recommendations
we've got publisher feeds we'vegot awards pages.
There are so many ways now thatyou can find new shows.
Claire Waite Brown (34:17):
I think we've exhausted it Claire for
now Oh I don't know I'd neversay that Sam.
Oh okay that sounds like you'vegot an idea yet but it's bound
to come.
Sam Sethi (34:29):
But outside of that you know I think it's exciting
that um we are seeing at theIndependent Podcast Awards lots
and lots of new podcasts as wellas those seasoned podcasters
there as well.
So yes congratulations to allthe winners as well by the way
Yeah well done.
And commiserations to youClaire I know thank you.
(34:50):
I was just honoured to be thereand that's it for this week
Claire our audio is recorded onRiverside edited by you Claire
and we're hosted by Bussproutfor now.
Claire Waite Brown (35:01):
You can support this show by streaming
Sats from your true fans walletor leave us a super comment or
better still become a monthlysupporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (35:12):
If you'd like to promote your podcast in the feed
for this show click on youravatar and go down to creators
dashboard then click on thepencil icon next to your podcast
go to promotions then podcastpromotions search for creators
from true fans that's us and youcan begin your request.
So basically if you would liketo put your show into our
(35:34):
podcast page that's the way todo it.
Claire Waite Brown (35:37):
And you can find out more about how to use
the features of the TrueFansplatform by listening to our
sister podcast fanzone for whichSam and I have actually just
recorded a new episode thatexplains step by step how you
can claim your show which you'regoing to need to do if you want
to join the wait list forhosting.
(35:58):
And if you're keen to learnmore about Podcasting 2.0 in
general check out my awardnominated course-based podcast
called Podcasting 2.0 inpractice don't forget you can
keep listening to hear more fromthis episode's featured
creator.
David Spencer (36:18):
When I teach I'm often teaching 19, 20, 21 year
olds who are the generation thatthis is for that we're kind of
talking in the media that we'retargeting these people.
But I think I hear lots ofdifferent things.
Some people just have to watchstuff they want to see those
facial expressions and and thekind of body language that you
just talked about.
But some of them don't and someof them just want to listen.
(36:40):
Some of them put YouTube on andjust listen.
They might go on a walk andhave YouTube on and just listen.
I think it's too easy to saythat everyone wants video
because we see the socialinteraction and the clicks but
definitely think that if you sitdown and again this happens
with students they do aconversation even in a podcast
studio but without cameras andwithout that kind of awareness
(37:02):
and suddenly the conversation isvery different.
You can make a podcast walkingside by side with someone so you
don't have to have the eyecontact and people find that
often they talk in a differentway.
And audio is that's why I loveit because I do think we open up
a little bit more.
It just feels as a way to toget inside people a little bit
more.
It seems much more personal andI think much more honest.
(37:25):
Yeah that's lovely and recentlySubstack but I'll be honest
Claire I still have no idea whatI'm doing with Substack because
that's another thing that Ihave to if there's a podcast
about that I will listen to itbut I have to read about it I
think yeah no I'm with you I'vejust gone on to Substack with
creativity found just as anextra place to be really but I'm
(37:45):
I'm not a writer it's like wewere talking about doing video
it's another thing to do isn'tit?
But I think you know if you'reon your own going back to people
who want to create stuff youknow don't spread yourself too
thinly know your audience andknow where your audience kind of
is going to be I think isreally important.
And especially when you startout you don't need to be
(38:07):
everywhere to kind of just sortof start it if you're aiming at
young people maybe you need tofocus on TikTok or if it's insta
for people slightly older.
But I think it is veryexhausting to think about all
those different things and soI'm I'm delighted to hear others
struggle with it too because Ireally should do more and
students tell me to do more andI just don't have the time.
Claire Waite Brown (38:29):
Oh what do students know David Well
hopefully a lot by the end ofthe course that I teach but
otherwise a lot to learn I'mjust going to say the episode I
listened to now I can't rememberthe name of the lady but the
title that attracted me becauseof my work on the Creativity
(38:50):
Found podcast which is all aboutfinding creativity later in
life you had put the headercoming to media later in life.
That's right yeah she was inher thirties when she when she
changed over to that yeah notnot that old but yes exactly
yeah yeah but still we'll takeit.
David Spencer (39:07):
And Leone on that episode was terrific because
going back to where we startedwith this and CVs, she had no
idea what to do with the CV whenshe came to me and was
completely mystified why no onewas getting back in touch.
And then once we got that in inshape, she then you know did
very well with her career.
So very satisfying to seetalented people just give a
(39:28):
little nudge and then they canget to achieve what they should
achieve.
Something appealed about audio, and that
still 30 odd years later reallyexcites me about talking to one
person.
You're inside someone's head inpodcasting often because you're
listening with headphones,you're talking to one person,
not a group.
It's such a beautiful, powerfulway to communicate, whether
it's a narrative podcast aboutthe Titanic or whether it's
trying to help people with mediacareers.
(00:31):
It's just beautiful.
And that still excites me now.
Sam Sethi (00:36):
If we said that that entry plan was £15 or $15, or if
you don't use all the listentime, should we just charge you
for it?
Well we thought no.
We thought what we should beable to do, because we can
measure it, is that it's amaximum amount we will charge
you.
So we'll only charge you up to$15 if you use all of that
(00:57):
listen time.
But if you use less, we'llcharge you less, you might only
get charged $5 or $8 or $7.99because we can do it very
accurately.Welcome to Creatorsfrom TrueFans.
I'm independent podcasterClaire Waite Brown.
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO ofTrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:17):
Each episode we'll chat with an independent
creator, whether a podcaster ormusician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:25):
And we'll on questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity, andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:34):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:40):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world
that could be of benefit toindependent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:47):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:48):
Very well, how are you?
Claire Waite Brown (01:50):
Good, thank you.
Sam Sethi (01:51):
Claire, which independent podcaster are we
featuring this week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:56):
This time I'm chatting with David Spencer,
otherwise known as the MediaMentor.
I'm chatting today with DavidSpencer.
Hi David, how are you?
I'm very well.
How are you?
Yeah, very good, thank you.
Start by telling me, please,the name of your show and what
it's all about.
David Spencer (02:17):
Well, the podcast is called the Media Mentor
Podcast, because the MediaMentor is a brand that I created
about 20 years ago as a sort ofofficial way to do what I kind
of started to do as a bit of aside hustle, which was helping
people with CVs and mediacareers, specifically media
(02:37):
careers.
So the podcast is centeredaround that work.
It's about helping peopleunderstand what is a mystifying
world of recruitment, but alsospecifically around the media
industry and how you canprogress your career, whether
you're 20 years old and you'retrying to get in, or if you're
in your 50s and trying to moveinto a new job, having not had
(03:00):
to use the CV for probably 30years.
Claire Waite Brown (03:03):
I have experience of that at the
moment, not for myself, but withpeople I know.
And the way you have to do CVsthese days is very different
from the last time I had to doone.
David Spencer (03:15):
It's mystifying, as I say.
That's a word I use a lot.
Just recruitment is.
But also there's a lot of noisearound what you do with a CV.
And I think in some industriesit's quite simple.
But in media, we're we tend tobe quite technically skilled,
but we just have no idea what itshould say and how it should
say it on paper.
And in media, there are somecertain things that we need to
(03:37):
do.
So the podcast was a way to tryand get to the stage of helping
more people by hearing me andpart of the sort of you know,
trying to increase awareness ofwhat the media mentor is, and me
becoming, you know, a littlebit more from behind the brand
and not being this hidden thingof who is the media mentor and
people actually hearing me.
Claire Waite Brown (03:54):
Yeah, that's actually kind of answering my
next question, but I'll ask itin case there's something extra
to add.
Why did you want to start it?
David Spencer (04:03):
Well, because I love audio.
I always wanted to be in radiofrom the age of 11 and 12, and
I've been lucky enough to do thethings that I dreamt about
doing and working in podcastingand creating audio like I'd
been.
It was crazy that there wasn'ta media mentor podcast.
But we'll discuss this.
It's finding time around allthe other things that happen in
(04:25):
life, finding the daylight to doit.
And I had lots of excuses as towhy I couldn't, don't have
enough time.
We choose to fill our time withwhat we choose to fill it with.
So that was always a bit of anexcuse.
So I wanted to get there and doit because it made sense as
someone who loves audio.
And to be honest, as you'llnotice with this podcast,
someone who likes talking outloud and likes the sound of
(04:47):
their own voice, that's peoplein in in radio in a nutshell.
So I'm really glad that I'vegot there and finally done it.
And and I'll be honest withyou, Claire, I just, you know, I
said to some people I wasteaching the other day, whatever
you produce, be proud and behappy that you've done it.
And I am just very proud,actually, of how it's turned
out.
So maybe the timing was justright.
(05:07):
You know, if I'd done this two,three, five years ago, maybe it
wouldn't have been quite whatit is now.
Claire Waite Brown (05:12):
Thank you.
I very much like that wholeloving audio side of things.
I think there can be a tendencyto think I won't do it yet
because I won't be perfect or Idon't know enough about it.
And sometimes you just have togo, right, let's do it and see
how it goes.
Super.
How do you decide episodelevel, like what you're gonna
(05:35):
talk about, who your guests aregonna be, that kind of thing?
David Spencer (05:39):
Well, I decided eventually, considering I've
already admitted I thought aboutit for quite a long time and
was shaping it like sort of onthe potter's wheel for quite a
long time, that I wanted to do anumber of things, and I have to
give some credit to Mrs.
Mentor, actually, who said, Whydon't you speak to the people
you've helped?
Why don't you use the casestudies of people you've worked
(06:00):
with?
Which had sort of occurred tome, but not quite in the way
that she sort of suggested,because they all have brilliant
stories and such great learningexperiences for the audience.
So I decided to sort ofstructure it in a way that did
three things.
So there are episodes where Iwill talk a lot about my theory
(06:21):
about stuff, so direct adviceabout CBs and cover letters.
I wanted to speak to thoseprevious clients, people I've
helped over the last 20 or soyears, to get their stories.
But I also wanted to speak topeople in the industry, whether
that's recruitment industry orwhether it's in media, about
their experiences and theirinsights.
So we've done an episode on AIand recruitment, which is such
(06:44):
an important topic right now.
So, in a way, the content ideasare numerous because there's so
much to talk about.
But what I quite like is thatbalance between, you know,
you're not necessarily beinglectured at, which is obviously
something that I do as a job.
One of the things I do is Iteach at a university.
So lecturing is is something Ido.
And when you do that, you don'twant to talk at people.
(07:06):
You you want to talk to or withpeople.
So I wanted it to feel likethat, that it was an experience
that gave insight, but also someof that experiential stuff.
So actually, Claire, I mean,there's a lot to cover, as you
can imagine, and also justdifferent opinions, because I
will always say, I will caveatwhatever I say, this is my view.
(07:27):
Someone may disagree.
So I think that's important tokind of get into as well and
hear from people who havedifferent perspectives.
Claire Waite Brown (07:36):
I'm smiling at the caveat.
I have a number of caveats insome of my other shows.
I was like, things may changein the future.
Please like use your commonsense.
David Spencer (07:47):
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
Claire Waite Brown (07:49):
You've touched on time and fitting it
in.
So how do you?
Do you have a particularschedule?
Do you have any processes thathelp you fit this in with
everything else in life?
David Spencer (08:03):
Well, I did a podcast a few years ago, which
was about learning to swimcompletely off my own back,
about being an adult andlearning to swim.
Or, as I've told my audience onthis podcast, not learning to
swim as it turned out.
But I learned lots except thekey thing.
When I made that podcast, Imade a mistake in that I was
(08:23):
very excited about doing it.
I very luckily got some lessonsas part of the podcast that
were, you know, sort ofsponsored in effect.
So it was with officialorganization.
And I put out the first episodevery excitedly.
And then it was weeks before Igot the second one done because
I'd got my lessons and I'd hadother things.
And I learned at that pointwhat everyone now really does
(08:45):
know in podcasting, which is youshould have a good schedule.
And if you are launching,launch with two, three, at least
three episodes in the can, butlaunch with two episodes at
least at the start.
Go with not just one, but two.
So I do have a schedule.
I got lots of case studies andinterviews with former clients
ready, and there are still lotsthat I haven't done.
(09:08):
I do find that fitting it inaround other stuff isn't a
problem, Claire, because as Isaid to a student this week, it
doesn't feel like work when I doit.
But I think that's notnecessarily helpful for people
doing this because it is workand you do need to schedule in
the time properly.
So although I love doing it andI love audio, I think you've
(09:31):
got to make sure you give itenough time, you give respect to
it and you don't throw it away.
So fitting it around otherstuff is tricky, but actually,
like anything, make sure youschedule time.
Put it in a calendar, make sureyou do that.
So I think researching takes alot of time, finding guests can
take a lot of time.
So really build in all of thosebits so that you can see it in
(09:55):
a calendar.
It's something I love doing,but just because of that, don't
dismiss it as something, oh, Ican just do it at the weekend.
You should be able to try andfind ways to do it properly in a
work schedule.
Claire Waite Brown (10:07):
That is very sensible advice.
Advice which I know I do notcurrently take myself, but I
understand it.
Very good advice that I shoulddo.
David Spencer (10:20):
Claire, can I share a secret with you, which
uh I think some people that havecertainly met the media mentor
and had conversations with meknow a lot of the things I say I
don't necessarily abide bymyself.
You should see my CV.
Um, but that's a differentstory.
Claire Waite Brown (10:35):
Perfect.
We are all human.
Do as I say, not as I do.
Sam Sethi (10:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (10:42):
Okay.
In the world of podcastinggenerally, what is one thing
that frustrates you and thencounter that with something
that, you know, really excitesyou or makes you happy?
David Spencer (10:53):
Well, I do really love audio, as I mentioned
earlier.
For some reason, somethingconnected before I turned into
my teen years, listening tomusic, love music, but talking
out loud, playing music wassomething that I just started
doing, and I can't think whatthat process was.
But I knew that I likedtalking, and I knew that I liked
(11:15):
entertaining people in thatsense.
But I also knew I didn't wantto be seen when I did that.
So when I got into radio, wedidn't have cameras, we didn't
have to be online, we didn'thave look like a TV show in our
studios.
I could do it in a box and noone see me and have confidence.
Because to be honest, I reallywasn't very confident.
I certainly couldn't imaginestanding in front of, you know,
(11:37):
a hundred students teaching.
You know, even when I startedradio, it was really good for my
confidence, but I was stillvery shy.
And so something appealed aboutaudio, and that still, 30 odd
years later, really excites meabout talking to one person.
You're inside someone's head inpodcasting often, because
you're listening withheadphones, you're talking to
one person, not a group.
(11:58):
It's such a beautiful, powerfulway to communicate, whether
it's a narrative podcast aboutthe Titanic or whether it's
trying to help people with mediacareers.
It's just beautiful.
And that still excites me now.
But the counterpoint, the onethat you ask, is the bit that
doesn't excite me and frustratesme.
Because we now know that videois the ruler online and social,
(12:22):
so that everything has to bevideo.
But to me, a podcast is notvideo.
The whole name comes from iPodand broadcast.
It's a podcast, it's somethingyou listen to.
And I think if you look atsomething, firstly that could be
TV.
There are a lot of podcaststhat are just like a TV show, or
it's a video.
And I know I'm being I'mpushing against the general
(12:43):
trend, Claire, of what peoplethink.
But to be honest, there aremany things you can't do with
video that you can do withaudio, and one of those key
things is that one-on-one thing,and just that magic of being in
someone's head and thosebeautiful immersive stories that
you can do.
And I think we're in danger oflosing that if we get too
(13:07):
fixated with video in the sortof way that we generally talk
about it now.
Claire Waite Brown (13:12):
Yeah.
Now you are the media mediamentor, and you've talked about
how this connects with a workingrole.
So do you think that by havingthis podcast that brings more
business your way?
I don't think you necessarilyinvented it for that purpose,
(13:34):
but is that a happy circumstancefrom it?
Are there ways in which itsupports your work that you earn
money for?
And also from a podcast on itsown point of view, does it
generate any financial support?
David Spencer (13:50):
On that last point, no.
Very early stages for any ofthat.
I'd rather hopefully leavethose two good ad breaks that I
have in it for uh ads to dropin, but know that that's not
going to happen at this stage.
Someone said a quote to meearly on with the media mentor
that said about how I sharedjobs, and at that point Twitter
was much more of a thing than itis now, and I was sharing
(14:13):
opportunities in that way andbuilding up a bit of a
following.
And they said it's like a softpower thing that you do.
You're like, here are somejobs, but by the way, I can help
you apply for those jobs.
And that's very much the way Isee the podcast.
As I mentioned earlier, it's away to kind of lift the veil a
little bit on, despite how Imight sound, someone who's not
(14:33):
particularly keen on thespotlight, but does like to
express an opinion.
And certainly I get greatpleasure from helping people and
advancing people's career.
And the podcast is a way tosort of underline that and to
build the brand of the mediamentor a little bit.
Because I think a lot ofpeople, yeah, my wife used to
hate these stories, but I be itevents or something, and someone
(14:56):
sort of say, Oh, what you do?
I'll, you know, this, this, andthis, and also I do the media
mentor job feed.
Oh my, oh my gosh, you're themedia mentor.
And obviously I love thingslike that because it was like,
oh, I good for my ego.
But also I was a little bitbehind the brand in that sense.
And I think these days we'velearned, and I think this is
true for my limited sort ofbusiness acumen, is that
(15:18):
actually being human and being asort of character behind a
brand is actually reallyvaluable because then it's just
not the media mentor as a bigsort of company who are these
people.
There's actually David behindit.
And of course, the whole pointof this was people came to me
because they liked my style,they liked my support.
(15:38):
So why wouldn't I then put thaton a podcast where you can,
coming back to what I was sayingabout why I love audio, it's
such an honest form ofcommunication.
I don't think anyone really canact out on a podcast.
If I hear people and I thinkdon't really like them, probably
there might be some truth inthe fact that there may be
(15:58):
someone that I don't reallylike.
If I like, you know, how theysound and how they feel on a
podcast, I know if I meet them,that's what they'll be like.
That's my general view.
It's a it's a bit of a a sortof sweeping statement, but audio
is so honest in that sense.
Claire Waite Brown (16:13):
I completely agree.
I mean, I've listened to yourshow and I thought, well, he
seems like a terribly nice chap,and I would be the way you
talk, but also, you know, theway you speak with your guests,
the respect that you have thereand the topic that you speak
about, you know, how you'vehelped them.
It's the voice behind what Isee on your website shows me
(16:35):
that this is a person I think Icould probably get along with.
Absolutely agree.
Now I'm going to talk to youabout podcasting 2.0.
What do you know about anythingwith regards to podcasting 2.0
and its features?
David Spencer (16:48):
Well, I read a bit after we agreed to do this
interview, and I was intriguedbecause it was sort of about
making, you know, sort ofpodcasting, or in in in a sense,
sort of much more 2025, perhapsin effect, but what does that
mean and being a bit moredynamic?
And I have no podcasting 2.0features.
I don't understand things likeRSS feeds.
(17:09):
I've always been someone who'skind of uses those things and
kind of doesn't understand howsomething gets from A to B.
In radio, we worked with lotsof people, Claire, that would
love transmitter information,you know, were very geeky about
that sort of stuff, which Iadmired.
I had no idea how what I wassaying was getting to someone's
radio in Slough if I was doing aradio show.
(17:31):
I was just glad that they couldhear me.
So, in some sense, the advanceof what this is confuses and
also I guess intrigues mebecause I do know, given what
we've said about video andpodcast and where we are, that
there are lots of things notworking well for the podcasting
(17:54):
industry and maybe can be betterfor creators, but also for just
generally us understandingwho's listening to what, when,
how, and in those kind of ways,because data collection is is
such a mess for podcasting.
So, in a way, long answer tosay not using any features, and
to be honest at this stage, nothugely understanding of what
(18:15):
they could do for me.
Claire Waite Brown (18:17):
Absolutely, you are not alone in that
opinion.
I'm with you.
I do not know how it getsthere.
I know it goes in the RSS feed,but I don't need to know how it
gets there or how it works whenit does get there.
What I want to know is why it'sgood for me.
As you've just said, you knowhow it can help me.
So when I did my podcast calledPodcasting 2.0 in Practice,
(18:41):
that's what I wanted tocommunicate to other podcasters.
So I break it down intoindividual features like
transcripts or chapters.
What we're looking at is why itcould help you with discovery
or why it could help you withinteractivity.
And then a bit further down theline, there's some monetization
because it does all seem a bitoverwhelming, especially if you
(19:05):
listen to or research.
Thank you very much for doing alittle bit of research there.
But when you start researching,you might get bamboozled with
like, these are all these tags,and this is all you can do, and
this is SAT.
And then you go, okay, no, thisis above me.
I just want to get my show outand find some more listeners.
But there are some nice littleways you can do it.
One I thought that might begood for your show, and it's
(19:29):
starting to be supported more bypodcast listening apps than it
was when I made Podcast and 2.0in Practice, and it's called Pod
Roll.
And on TrueFans, you'll find itunder recommendations.
And on Pocket Casts, I thinkthey call it recommendations as
well.
And what it means is that you,as the podcaster, can recommend
(19:49):
other podcasts that obviouslythat you recommend.
So I think in your fields, thatcould be quite a good one.
Equally, you would say to theother podcasts, I'm putting your
show in my pod role.
This is my show.
Would you like to put me inyours?
So it's a way of podcastershelping each other to be
discovered, especially, youknow, us independent podcasters,
(20:11):
we want to help each other outand we need as much help as we
can get.
David Spencer (20:15):
Yes, exactly.
And a lot in what you said, sothe sort of the discovery
aspect, uh, which we know inpodcasting isn't a strength, and
the chapters is something thatreally interests me, and I use
in another podcast that Icreate.
But I I think the community, Idid a a podcast awards or
attended an awards recentlywhere I judged some of the
podcasts in publishing, and theytalked a lot about how
(20:37):
community was certainly arevelation to them and how
building communities wassomething they were doing with
podcasts, and then it benefitedthe publishing side, as in, you
know, the written side of thepublication, which to me was
like, you've just discoveredthat, you know, communities are
good.
That's what radio is.
You build a community, you'rein a community.
And I think with podcasts,that's a real strength.
(20:59):
And if you can get sort of across-community connection, then
that can feed each other.
Because we know there's such asea of content out there, but
there are some amazing thingsthat aren't being heard, and
there are some not so amazingthings that are being heard by
lots of people, and I think itwould just be good to get a
little bit more across because Ithink discovery is one of the
(21:22):
weakest sides of podcasting.
Also, just being slightly lazyin the doing, you know, you
asked about time and making apodcast.
Also, researching that andgetting your head around that,
that all takes time too.
So, what better way than apodcast to listen to it?
Because you can do that asyou're doing something else.
We know that that is thestrength of audio, so I will do
(21:42):
that.
It's on the to-do list, Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (21:44):
Oh, lovely.
Thank you so much.
One of the things I talk aboutin that show is called
streaming, and that means yourlisteners can pay you
micropayments, so tiny amountsper minute that they listen to
your show.
I've done that for your show.
I'm just gonna say when youclaim your show on TrueFans,
(22:04):
that money will have been savedinto a little digital wallet for
you.
So even though your maybe yourshow isn't claimed yet on
TrueFans, anybody that streamsany payments to you, your
payments will be saved.
And eventually when you add upsome money, you can take it out
into Stripe and go and buyyourself a cup of tea.
David Spencer (22:21):
Amazing.
Oh, well, I appreciate that.
And I mean it's such a like Isay, there's people with
brilliant ideas, greatcreativity that we know can do
it.
Like when I was 11 or 12 doinga radio show just to no one in
my bedroom, now you can turnthat into something that you
create.
You can make a podcast soeasily that ways to support
people doing that, and that willhelp with diversity too, in
(22:44):
that encouraging everyone tothink that they can do that and
not just sort of traditionalbrands.
So I think that's veryexciting.
Claire Waite Brown (22:51):
Tell me, David, how people can find
everything that you do, please.
David Spencer (22:56):
Well, the media mentor is on all the socials.
That is exhausting to be on allthe socials.
So in the good old days,Twitter was the sort of
foundation of that, but thesedays X is kind of pointless.
I think a lot of people havemoved from X to LinkedIn.
You'll find me on LinkedIn asDavid Spencer or the Media
Mentor.
Themediamentor.info is mywebsite where you can read a
(23:17):
little bit more about what I do.
But I'm the media mentor in allthe different places Instagram,
Blue Sky, Threads, etc.
Claire Waite Brown (23:24):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
David Spencer (23:26):
Pleasure.
Claire Waite Brown (23:28):
David and I carried on the conversation,
exploring a little more aboutauthenticity in audio and video.
Plus, we talk about notspreading ourselves too thinly
when it comes to the dreadedsocial media.
And you can hear that at theend of this episode of Creators.
Sam Sethi (23:46):
There is a link to the Media Mentor in the show
notes, and new episodes arehighlighted on the homepage at
TrueFans, so the podcast is easyfor you to find there.
Claire Waite Brown (23:55):
And if you'd like to explore anything that
David and I talked about in thatinterview, please leave us a
comment or super comment, whichis really easy to do in TrueFans
by clicking on the speechbubble icon or the tab called
comments under the icons.
Sam Sethi (24:11):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
Creators from TrueFans?
Claire Waite Brown (24:17):
Please do.
I would love to chat with you.
If you'd like to chat with usabout your independent podcast
or your music, send a comment orsuper comment in TrueFans to
any creators episode by clickingon the speech bubble icon or on
the comments tab.
Sam Sethi (24:34):
So Claire, question time.
What do you want to ask me thisweek?
Claire Waite Brown (24:39):
I wanted to ask about the hosting.
As in True Fans As We Know is abrilliant podcast listening app
that supports loads of extrafeatures, but you are also
branching out into hosting.
Where are you at in thatjourney?
Sam Sethi (25:00):
Very excitingly, we are progressing very well.
We expect to open the wait listat the end of this month.
Testing has shown us that wecan now move with two clicks any
podcast from an existing hostover to TrueFans.
And that's very exciting.
We want to make this asseamless and simple as possible.
We need to do a few moretechnical things, which is why
(25:22):
the wait list will open ratherthan going directly to the
product and the plans.
Now the pricing page will alsobe available this week.
We're very excited on the waythat we're testing pricing.
I'd love your thoughts.
And equally leave us a supercomment as well if you think
what we're doing is good or bad.
The way that we want to do itis based on value for value.
(25:45):
Now, value for value, you mayhave heard the term before from
Claire or myself, is the ideawhen you're paying as a fan to a
podcast creator, you go, Oh, Ithink this is worth 50p a minute
or a hundred laps a minute.
And that's the value you'regiving back to the creator, and
they give you value in the formof the podcast.
(26:05):
So it's an exchange of value.
That's great.
And most hosts today willcharge you a fixed fee for your
entry level or your pro level oryour pro plus level.
And irrespective of whether youuse all the downloads in the
case of companies like Captivateor number of hours in the case
(26:26):
of BuzzSprout, you pay a fixedamount.
Well, that's not really valuefor value.
So what we want to do is notuse the metric of downloads,
because a download is not aplay.
But we want to use a metriccalled listen time.
And that's what we show you inyour creator's dashboard how
many minutes or hours did peoplelisten to your podcast.
(26:47):
That's the thing that reallymatters.
That's the only thing thatreally matters, actually.
And so when you sign up to oneof TrueFan's hosting plans, you
will get a number of hoursallocated to you for that plan.
And based on that, you will beable to say, right, this episode
(27:07):
had 20 people listen to it andI had one hour, 10 minutes of
listen time on aggregate.
And that gets taken off yourplan.
If we said that that entry planwas £15 or $15, well, if you
don't use all the listen time,should we just charge you for
it?
Well we thought no.
We thought what we should beable to do, because we can
(27:29):
measure it is that it's amaximum amount we will charge
you.
So we will only charge you upto $15 if you use all of that
listen time.
But if you use less, we'llcharge you less.
So you might only get charged$5 or $8 or $799 because we can
do it very accurately.
So that's the way that we lookat it.
(27:50):
And if there's extra money thatyou've got left, you can roll
that money over into your nextmonth.
Again, we think it's value forvalue, but you pay for the
amount of data and the amount oflisten time that your fans are
listening to.
And we only charge you for theamount.
We don't charge you for excessthat you don't use.
So we think that's a good plan.
Claire Waite Brown (28:11):
Yes, it does sound very fair.
The rolling over is generous,isn't it?
Sam Sethi (28:17):
We would charge you £15 at the beginning of the
month, right?
We'll charge you that fullamount.
But let's say you get to theend of the amount if you uh only
use £10 worth of yourallocation.
Well we don't keep the fivepounds, we just roll that into
your next plan.
So instead of you being charged£15 again next month, we only
charge you ten pounds becauseyou've got five pounds in your
(28:37):
kitty already.
And now if you get to the full£15, excellent, well done you.
So we could just send you anotification.
We won't charge you any morefor the first time you go over
because it's not your fault.
You're not sure how many peopleare listening to your episodes.
You might be super successfulthat month and didn't know it
was going to happen.
So we'll say to you, look, bythe way, Claire, you went over.
(28:59):
If it happens again, then wewould recommend that you upgrade
your plan to the next level.
And so that gives you then alittle bit of leeway.
But you know that at the £30mark, if you go to £18, you're
still going to get the moneycoming back to you.
So you're not you're not losingout.
It's just we will charge it upto the amount that you're using.
Claire Waite Brown (29:19):
Yeah, you've got nothing to lose.
Sam Sethi (29:21):
No.
Claire Waite Brown (29:22):
I just want to clarify this, because we've
talked a lot about TrueFans isits own thing.
But when when we're talkingabout TrueFans as a hosting
company, we do mean that we'regetting those numbers from all
the other apps.
You've got listeners on Spotifyor Apple or Fountain or Podcast
Guru.
That'll do for now, Claire.
Those figures are all cominginto your true fans, and that's
(29:45):
what it's all being calculatedon, isn't it?
Sam Sethi (29:48):
Correct.
And we've done something superclever because we do two things.
We with your MP3 file, youraudio file, we can actually
stream that audio.
profile in small little chunksso we know exactly when people
stop listening.
Not just on TrueFans, but onany app.
And that's how we can measureit.
(30:09):
We're also using a newtechnology on TrueFans called
HLS, which is an Appletechnology, which again breaks
up the audio into small littlechunks so we can measure how
long your listener actuallylistened.
This is in contrary to the waythat the industry works.
The industry will download thewhole episode before people play
(30:31):
back.
We will download six secondchunks.
So we're streaming the data toyou.
And that's the differencebetween true fans and everyone
else.
Claire Waite Brown (30:40):
And as a creator, I don't need to do
anything special, do I?
You're doing all the specialstuff.
I just do my normal stuff.
Sam Sethi (30:48):
Exactly.
And that's the point, you know,the old swan adage on the
surface as a creator you donothing different.
You you just grace along as youwould normally and we will
distribute your podcast to allthe places you want it to go and
people will listen to yourpodcast on those platforms.
But underneath we're doing allthe clever switching and
calculating and measuring andpricing.
(31:08):
Yeah that's what we do.
Claire Waite Brown (31:10):
Brilliant.
Very exciting.
Looking forward to trying itall out.
Sam Sethi (31:15):
You and me both.
Claire Waite Brown (31:18):
What about the podcasting world in general?
Anything that you foundinteresting, fun happening?
Sam Sethi (31:26):
Well we went to the independent podcast awards this
week together, didn't we?
Claire Waite Brown (31:29):
We did.
Sam Sethi (31:30):
Congratulations to all the organizers for another
wonderful event.
And it was good fun as well.
You saw people that you knowthat we call friends within the
industry.
I did the same and I met lotsof new people and I just think
they're fun real world events togo to.
What were your thoughts?
Claire Waite Brown (31:46):
I had a lot of fun.
It's so super friendly.
I did meet a whole load of newpeople again which was brilliant
some of whom are going to comeand be interviewed for creators
from TrueFans.
So that's um also exciting.
I had noticed this whenoriginally I was adding the
nominees to the awards page atTrueFans for the independent
(32:06):
podcast awards was thecreativity and the inventiveness
in some of these shows was juststaggering.
It was very good to see thosekind of shows being recognized
and rewarded.
Sam Sethi (32:19):
Yeah I think you know Apple and Spotify and and
YouTube all have their place butthey're big players in the
market and they're paid by PRcompanies and they're influenced
if not directly paid to put thebig shows up there.
You know, this week JamesCorden released his show from
Sirius XM.
I'm sure he's on every homepage right I'm sure anytime
(32:41):
anyone releases a big podcastwith a budget behind it, with a
team behind it, that they'veknocked on the door of Apple to
say can we be on the new andnoteworthy?
And that's fine and that'sthat's you know what people
should do.
I like the fact that we'rebringing to the surface and
helping people to discover newindependent podcast creators
because that is the bread andbutter, the lifeline of
(33:04):
podcasting because the big showswill come and go, but those
mainstream long tail podcastersthey're the ones who are doing
it for love, not money.
They're going to be here whenlet's say some of those bigger
ones have gone.
Claire Waite Brown (33:17):
Yeah.
I just wanted actually you'vereminded me I'm going to bring
this in here now another form ofdiscovery for true fans is that
we will put up on our lists,for example our categories
lists, what appears at the frontof that list, apart from maybe
if there's been a promotion willbe latest episodes.
(33:40):
So it's always changing.
I am always looking at mycategories on my homepage to see
what's on that list now becausethat is just what's come out
today, you know, not what I'mmaybe being fed or not what
somebody has a PR budget topromote.
Exactly.
And I have found shows thatway.
So that's another thing Ireally like about using the
TrueFans homepage.
Sam Sethi (34:01):
I think we've got now a number of really cool ways to
discover.
We've got the homepage we'vegot pod roles recommendations
we've got publisher feeds we'vegot awards pages.
There are so many ways now thatyou can find new shows.
Claire Waite Brown (34:17):
I think we've exhausted it Claire for
now Oh I don't know I'd neversay that Sam.
Oh okay that sounds like you'vegot an idea yet but it's bound
to come.
Sam Sethi (34:29):
But outside of that you know I think it's exciting
that um we are seeing at theIndependent Podcast Awards lots
and lots of new podcasts as wellas those seasoned podcasters
there as well.
So yes congratulations to allthe winners as well by the way
Yeah well done.
And commiserations to youClaire I know thank you.
(34:50):
I was just honoured to be thereand that's it for this week
Claire our audio is recorded onRiverside edited by you Claire
and we're hosted by Bussproutfor now.
Claire Waite Brown (35:01):
You can support this show by streaming
Sats from your true fans walletor leave us a super comment or
better still become a monthlysupporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (35:12):
If you'd like to promote your podcast in the feed
for this show click on youravatar and go down to creators
dashboard then click on thepencil icon next to your podcast
go to promotions then podcastpromotions search for creators
from true fans that's us and youcan begin your request.
So basically if you would liketo put your show into our
(35:34):
podcast page that's the way todo it.
Claire Waite Brown (35:37):
And you can find out more about how to use
the features of the TrueFansplatform by listening to our
sister podcast fanzone for whichSam and I have actually just
recorded a new episode thatexplains step by step how you
can claim your show which you'regoing to need to do if you want
to join the wait list forhosting.
(35:58):
And if you're keen to learnmore about Podcasting 2.0 in
general check out my awardnominated course-based podcast
called Podcasting 2.0 inpractice don't forget you can
keep listening to hear more fromthis episode's featured
creator.
David Spencer (36:18):
When I teach I'm often teaching 19, 20, 21 year
olds who are the generation thatthis is for that we're kind of
talking in the media that we'retargeting these people.
But I think I hear lots ofdifferent things.
Some people just have to watchstuff they want to see those
facial expressions and and thekind of body language that you
just talked about.
But some of them don't and someof them just want to listen.
(36:40):
Some of them put YouTube on andjust listen.
They might go on a walk andhave YouTube on and just listen.
I think it's too easy to saythat everyone wants video
because we see the socialinteraction and the clicks but
definitely think that if you sitdown and again this happens
with students they do aconversation even in a podcast
studio but without cameras andwithout that kind of awareness
(37:02):
and suddenly the conversation isvery different.
You can make a podcast walkingside by side with someone so you
don't have to have the eyecontact and people find that
often they talk in a differentway.
And audio is that's why I loveit because I do think we open up
a little bit more.
It just feels as a way to toget inside people a little bit
more.
It seems much more personal andI think much more honest.
(37:25):
Yeah that's lovely and recentlySubstack but I'll be honest
Claire I still have no idea whatI'm doing with Substack because
that's another thing that Ihave to if there's a podcast
about that I will listen to itbut I have to read about it I
think yeah no I'm with you I'vejust gone on to Substack with
creativity found just as anextra place to be really but I'm
(37:45):
I'm not a writer it's like wewere talking about doing video
it's another thing to do isn'tit?
But I think you know if you'reon your own going back to people
who want to create stuff youknow don't spread yourself too
thinly know your audience andknow where your audience kind of
is going to be I think isreally important.
And especially when you startout you don't need to be
(38:07):
everywhere to kind of just sortof start it if you're aiming at
young people maybe you need tofocus on TikTok or if it's insta
for people slightly older.
But I think it is veryexhausting to think about all
those different things and soI'm I'm delighted to hear others
struggle with it too because Ireally should do more and
students tell me to do more andI just don't have the time.
Claire Waite Brown (38:29):
Oh what do students know David Well
hopefully a lot by the end ofthe course that I teach but
otherwise a lot to learn I'mjust going to say the episode I
listened to now I can't rememberthe name of the lady but the
title that attracted me becauseof my work on the Creativity
(38:50):
Found podcast which is all aboutfinding creativity later in
life you had put the headercoming to media later in life.
That's right yeah she was inher thirties when she when she
changed over to that yeah notnot that old but yes exactly
yeah yeah but still we'll takeit.
David Spencer (39:07):
And Leone on that episode was terrific because
going back to where we startedwith this and CVs, she had no
idea what to do with the CV whenshe came to me and was
completely mystified why no onewas getting back in touch.
And then once we got that in inshape, she then you know did
very well with her career.
So very satisfying to seetalented people just give a
(39:28):
little nudge and then they canget to achieve what they should
achieve.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!