November 9, 2025 • 44 mins
Powerful storytelling, innovative documentary production and vital discussions on the future of podcasting metrics.
This time, Claire interviews Anna Stoecklein, creator of The Story of Woman, to find out more about her critically acclaimed new documentary series:
The Story of Woman: Finding Strength in Kenya
- A Harrowing Topic, a Powerful Message: Hear how Anna travelled to Kenya to create a three-part series on Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), telling the human stories behind the statistics and research.
- Rewriting Tradition: In this series Anna speaks with survivors, activists, and community leaders in a Somali community in Nairobi and a Maasai community in rural Kenya, showcasing the strength and untapped potential of those working to rewrite tradition from the inside out.
- Splitting the Sats: Learn how TrueFans enables creators like Anna to use the splits feature in their digital wallet to distribute listener-streamed payments (SATs) between herself and partnering organisations, such as the Orchid Project.
Creator Strategy: Funding and Features
- New Metrics for Success: Sam explains how hosting on TrueFans provides creators with valuable metrics, including actual listen time and percent completion, that are far more useful to sponsors than traditional download numbers.
- Apple Joins the Chapter Party: Sam and Claire discuss the major industry news that Apple Podcasts will soon support chapters, whether their own or ones provided by the podcaster, including those that carry the Podcasting 2.0 format. Apple will automatically generate chapters using AI/transcripts, but creators are advised to make their own chapters for full control, dynamic updates (even weeks later), and the ability to include images and links that appear in all supporting apps.
Don't forget: You can support this show by streaming SATs from your TrueFans wallet or leaving a super comment!
Listen to The Story of Woman here
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Music: How It Is from Ketsa Music
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Read: Creators Blog
Recommendations: Creators Podroll
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anna Stoecklein (00:06):
An organization that researches FGM and they're called
Orchid Project.
We came up with this idea together, which was essentially
helping to bring their research to life through storytelling,
because, you know, as I'm sure everyone can appreciate
research and numbers and spreadsheets, not entirely exciting
and you know, gonna get people wanting to learn more about
(00:27):
this issue.
And obviously, what people remember are people and stories
and things that tug on your heartstrings.
Sam Sethi (00:34):
Instead of getting a download number, which doesn't tell you
whether they played it or didn't, this is number of plays, the
actual listen time of each fan, aggregated into a total listen
time.
It's nice metrics to be able to give advertisers or sponsors.
Yes, my show gets 70 hours of listen time a week.
Claire Waite Brown (00:52):
In fact, I think I've done one better, because rather
than giving myself the extra work, all I've done is
I've waited for one of the biggest podcast apps to
decide they should display my chapters and become a
follow-along app.
Welcome to Creators from TrueFans.
I'm independent podcaster Claire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:12):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:15):
Each episode we'll chat with an independent creator,
whether a podcaster or musician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:23):
And we'll answer questions from independent creators about the
TrueFans features that can help them with discovery, interactivity,
and monetisation.
Claire Waite Brown (01:33):
We'll get interactive and see what our listeners have
been saying in the comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:38):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world that could be
of benefit to independent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:45):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:47):
I'm very well, thank you very much.
Which independent podcast are we going to feature this week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:51):
This time, I'm chatting with Anna Stoecklein about
the most recent series of her podcast, which is called
The Story of Woman.
The most recent series was recorded on location in
Kenya and Nairobi.
And for this three-part series, Anna spoke with survivors,
activists, and community leaders to reveal the human
(02:12):
stories behind the headlines and the statistics around
female genital mutilation.
So here's my chat with Anna.
I'm here today with Anna Stoecklein.
Anna, how are you?
I am super.
How are you today, Claire?
Very well, thank you.
Start by telling me about your podcast, what it's called,
(02:34):
and what is it all about.
Anna Stoecklein (02:36):
Yeah, so my podcast is called The Story of Woman, and
I'm looking at the world through a gendered lens.
So topics have ranged from politics and healthcare to
the way we design our city streets and everything beyond.
And most recently, I undertook a project that took me
down to Kenya, where I did a three-part in-person series
(03:00):
looking at the topic of female genital mutilation.
And this was a story that really looked at the strength
and untapped potential of women within these communities
and also what these girls and women and the communities
as a whole are doing to rewrite that story and to change
(03:22):
things from the inside out.
So we may get into it more, but just to say, as harrowing
as a topic as that kind of is and can be, for me, it was
really a story of strength and power and what these girls
and women and communities are doing to stop a tradition,
a practice that's been around since the pyramids.
Claire Waite Brown (03:43):
It definitely does that in the finished article.
As a listener, that's how I feel about it.
But also teaching me more into the background and why
people do it for their very different reasons, what
that background is.
So that was really useful for me as well.
Thinking of that particular series, why, how, how did
(04:08):
you come to decide to cover this topic, to take yourself
to Africa?
Tell me a bit more about that.
Anna Stoecklein (04:14):
Yeah.
So thank you, by the way, for what you said about it kind
of clearing up some things with that issue, that topic
altogether, because that was definitely a big um motivating
factor to create it was to help dispel, you know, myths.
And especially for us who come from cultures where it's
not practiced as widely, though it is still practiced.
It all just aligned pretty, pretty serendipitously.
(04:36):
So I was living in East Africa for about six months.
So I didn't go there for this project, but I went there
for personal reasons, um, of which, you know, we can delve
into, but that might need to be a different episode.
But I found myself um living in Kenya and the region for
about six months.
And while I was down there, I was just thinking about
(05:00):
how there's all these humanitarian organizations, NGOs,
nonprofits that exist in the region, you know, all these
different topics and issues that I had kind of more theoretically
spoken about or spoken to with my previous seasons.
Now I'm kind of I'm there where a lot of these organizations
are on the ground doing different types of work.
(05:21):
So that just kind of gave me an idea of perhaps I can
team up with one of them and help to tell their story.
It helped to tell one of these stories in this way.
Because before this series, all of my seasons had been,
you know, sat behind a computer screen and speaking to
someone who's an expert in their area in one way or another.
Whereas this would be, you know, on the ground and speaking
(05:43):
to all different types of people, you know, more everyday
people and with a whole lot of voices versus just one
one-on-one interview.
So I kind of cast the net far and wide with this idea
in mind and ended up connecting with an organization that
researches FGM and they're called Orchid Project, and
(06:04):
they have headquarters here in London as well as in Nairobi.
And we came up with this idea together, which was essentially
helping to bring their research to life through storytelling,
because, you know, as I'm sure everyone can appreciate,
research and numbers and spreadsheets, not entirely exciting
and, you know, gonna get people wanting to learn more
(06:26):
about this issue.
And obviously, what people remember are people and stories
and things that tug on your on your heartstrings more
than statistics, which is what this research company focuses
on, which is very important.
But so I was, yeah, I was tasked with helping to bring
their story to life and the impact of the work that they
do through the podcast series.
Claire Waite Brown (06:48):
I know they have their own experts, some of whom are
on the show.
Were they able to put you in touch with other people
as well?
Anna Stoecklein (06:56):
Exactly.
So they have a lot of different partners on the ground.
So they don't just work in Kenya, they're global.
But since we were really looking at that region, they
have partners on the ground that they work with.
So I was put in touch with them and the series, I speak
to two quite different communities.
One is a Somali community in Nairobi, and one is a Maasai
(07:18):
kind of indigenous community and group out in rural Kenya.
And we picked the two different communities because their
stories are are quite different, and that's a little microcosm
of how all of the stories of why it happens and and why
it's hard to stop and all of that.
You know, it's very, very different depending on which
community that we're speaking about and which time period
(07:39):
within that community we're speaking about.
Um, so I was put in touch with different organizations
that are working on the ground to kind of educate and
transform from within, within these two different communities.
Claire Waite Brown (07:54):
You've already said about sitting on a computer doing
interviews.
It's quite a different overall show.
It's like a documentary, you've got clips, you've got
music.
So a different form of production for you, I imagine.
How did you find the time to do that?
Did you enjoy that?
Just tell me a bit about that.
Anna Stoecklein (08:12):
I love this question because I am just filled with joy,
like recalling the process of this type of production.
And it indicated to me that this is the type of creative
storytelling I like to do.
It was very different than, yes, sitting behind a computer
screen interviewing someone and you know doing a bit of
editing, but a lot of that is kind of pre-production,
(08:35):
getting your questions in order and kind of already having
that flow.
Whereas this was I ended up with 30 plus hours of raw
audio of all these different voices, the vast majority
of which, you know, probably 90% of which were in Swahili
or in um local Maasai language, neither of which I speak.
So there was also that component to it.
(08:56):
But you end up with 30 plus hours of raw audio that you
then have to come up with this story that is a mix of
exactly, as you say, the voices of the people I spoke
with and the narration that I wrote out and then narrated
in between.
So it was a very, very different process, but it was a
big learning for me that this felt um it's felt very aligned
(09:19):
with kind of how I how I create and want to create and
want to put things out into the world.
So yeah, very different and more challenging in a lot
of ways, but the kind of challenge that I hope to be able
to do again and again in my career.
Well, you did it beautifully.
Oh, thank you, Claire.
Really means a lot.
(09:41):
I loved it.
Claire Waite Brown (09:42):
I'm gonna talk about time and funding and practicalities.
Now, you said you were in um Africa for a time, and
I know that you have work to do to earn money.
What was your situation when you were working on this
particular show?
Are you getting funding?
Did you happen to just have time to be able to do it,
(10:03):
or were you fitting it around other things?
Anna Stoecklein (10:06):
Yeah, so when I went down and started this six-month venture
down there, I was doing a bit of freelance work here and
there.
And then I kind of dropped that because I realized my
time there was finite and I wanted to just fully immerse
in the new location that I found myself in and the new
culture and life.
So I wasn't working by the time this project came up.
(10:30):
So I had time and space, and then I did get some monetary
compensation from the organization to bring this story
to life.
I will say, I mean, I'm I'm very, very appreciative of
it, and it was what I asked for, but I was able to offer
a very, a decently low sum for what it was.
(10:52):
Number one, because I was already there.
So I didn't, you know, cover my flight to and from Kenya
because I was already there.
And that was a part of my pitch, really, was like, I'm
here.
So while I'm here, let's do something.
And also, this was my first kind of project of this scope.
And I wanted to really just get my foot in the door.
(11:14):
So even though I did get compensation, which, you know,
I'm I'm sure everyone listening can appreciate is just
not the easiest thing to do in this industry.
If and when I continue down this path, that will still
be something I kind of have to improve, if you will.
But I did get something and I had the space because I
wasn't doing any other kind of job at the time.
Claire Waite Brown (11:35):
But there will be value for you from that.
A, that learning that you've just said, and B, the
learning of the actual doing a different style of style
of show, having that to show other people.
Anna Stoecklein (11:46):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, I probably would have done it for free if it came
down to it for exactly, exactly those reasons.
Yeah.
The skills, the experience, you know, and just the experience
I got to have speaking to, you know, the people that that
opened up and shared their hearts and their stories with
me.
You know, that you can't even put a price tag on.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (12:08):
So I'm gonna ask podcasty questions now.
Anna Stoecklein (12:10):
Okay.
Claire Waite Brown (12:13):
Let's start with your frustrations and excitements
about podcasting, whether your experience, the podcast
industry, stuff you have to do around it, what are
your thoughts on those?
Anna Stoecklein (12:27):
Yeah, well, let's start with frustrations.
Um, I mean, one is, you know, difficult to monetize.
I would venture to say that's a big thing for all creatives.
That's just an ongoing theme.
We have our creative endeavors, and then we have the things
on the side that can help fund those.
And podcasting, yeah, difficult and monetizing.
(12:48):
That's an ongoing frustration.
I think the other thing that came up when you asked that
is I don't know, for me, I like the storytelling component.
And I guess too, this is again probably the same plight
of all creatives, not just podcasters.
We like the creative component, but it's then everything
else you have to do outside of that to package it up and
(13:11):
present it to the world and market it.
And, you know, I I'm I'm not a social media person, never
have been, probably never will be, but to have a podcast
and to not tell the world about it, you know, then no
one hears it.
And so it's it's yeah, really just everything outside
of the actual podcast creation storytelling component
(13:33):
Anna Stoecklein:itself.
Um then what excites me, I mean, I guess really it's just
how accessible it is.
So me, I was working for a health tech startup.
I had no, you know, I never interviewed anyone in my life.
I had no background in this at all.
(13:55):
And I was able to, with the help of Google, uh Googling
how-to podcast and things such as that, um, slowly over
time completely change my career and hopefully put stories
out into the world that have made an impact and a difference.
So that's huge.
And for me, that's worth putting up with the all all the
(14:15):
all the frustrations because that's just a part of it.
Yeah.
So the the how accessible it is and the fact that literally
anything is is possible.
Claire Waite Brown (14:25):
They go together, don't they?
The accessibility and the freedom.
I mean, we wouldn't possibly have our the voices that
we do have with our shows if we had to go through radio
executives or something.
Anna Stoecklein (14:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's it.
That is that's a great point.
Claire Waite Brown (14:40):
Do you know, have you heard, what do you know, if anything,
about podcasting 2.0 features?
Anna Stoecklein (14:47):
Not much.
I know it's like outside of the actual podcast episode
and things that can help you get found and discovered.
Well done.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Claire Waite Brown (14:59):
Yeah.
Oh, exactly that.
It's the it's the wider things that you can have included
in your RSS feed, but they point to other places.
So, transcript, for example, is the very basic example,
which is good for your SEO.
Chapters I always bang on about because I love them.
And then there are elements of monetization.
So I was thinking about this series, and I was thinking
(15:21):
about your connection with the Orchid project.
Because there are ways with the modern podcast apps,
including TrueFans, where your listeners can send you
money within the app.
Every podcast that I listen to, an episode or two for
this, I stream a small amount of money per minute to
that show.
(15:42):
So when on TrueFans you go and claim your show, you'll
find this little wallet, this digital wallet that you
didn't know was there, and it'll have a tiny amount
of money in it.
If more people do that, that tiny amount of money will
get bigger.
Yeah.
And one of the things that you can do with that digital
wallet, and when you set up how you want your payments
(16:02):
to be, is you can set up what are known as splits.
So you could split the payments between yourself, for
example, the Orchid project.
You might want to, for example, say on your episode,
if you stream me money or send me a super comment,
so much of that percent will go to this person, and
(16:24):
so much percent of that will go to this person.
That was just an idea for the way you're working with
these guys, and it might make people more willing to
give you some money.
I mean, I think it's a bit mean to say put a charity
in there to make people want to pay you, but people
don't tend to want to pay us because they think we
want to do it for love, which we do, but Yeah, but
we also mean to eat.
(16:44):
Yes, exactly.
And then the other one is another monetization one,
which I know that your host company doesn't support,
but maybe in the future, and you can do it directly
in TrueFans, there's a feature, it's called the funding
feature.
And if your hosting company allows it, you put in the
link of where you want this funding icon that appears
(17:04):
on modern podcasting apps to go to.
So for example, I have one on TrueFans, there's a symbol
of a hand with a heart on it.
And if anyone clicks on that on, say, podcasting 2.0
in practice, they'll be taken to my Buy Me a Coffee
page.
So they can go straight from the app to where you want
your funding to go.
So those were just two of the ones that I thought might
(17:26):
be, you know, useful, personal, relevant to your particular
show.
Anna Stoecklein (17:31):
Totally.
I appreciate that very much.
And I have taken some notes here as you were speaking,
so I can look into all of this afterwards.
Claire Waite Brown (17:39):
You know where I am if you have any questions and uh
I can make things sound easy.
So thank you so, so much, Anna.
It's been really lovely to chat with you.
Tell me how and where everybody can find you in all
in especially in those social media places that none
of us like.
Anna Stoecklein (17:58):
Yes, please go find me there.
Make this make this a little easier.
The website is the story of womanpodcast.com, and the
social media handles are some variation of the story of
woman.
So if you just put the story of woman, and that's woman,
like womankind, not women, then you will be able to find
me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
(18:20):
Also from the website, you can get direct links to there.
But yeah, just type in the story of woman.
Yeah, brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (18:27):
Thanks again, Anna.
Anna Stoecklein (18:28):
It's been lovely to chat.
See you soon.
Thank you so much, Claire.
Super lovely.
Claire Waite Brown (18:34):
Anna tells me more about the origins of the story of
woman and the series that came before the one we focused
on in our chat, including an episode Anna recorded
with Hillary Clinton and Cherie Blair.
You'll find out more about all of that at the end of
this episode of Creators.
Sam Sethi (18:53):
There is a link to the Story of Woman in the show notes and
new episodes are highlighted on the homepage at TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (18:59):
And if you would like to explore anything that Anna
and I talked about in that interview, please leave
us a comment or super comment, which, as you may know
by now, is super easy to do in TrueFans by clicking
on the speech bubble icon, or there is a tab under
the icons called comments.
Sam Sethi (19:18):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast creator,
why not put yourself forward to be a future guest on Creators
from TrueFans?
It's great to talk to Claire and also a great way to get publicity
for your podcast.
Claire Waite Brown (19:31):
If you'd like to chat with us about your independent
podcast or your music, send a comment or super comment
in TrueFans to any creators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on the comments tab.
Last time we were on, we talked about the wait list
for hosting.
Have we moved further along with that now, Sam?
Sam Sethi (19:53):
No.
Joking, I'm joking.
Yes, of course we have.
We opened up the wait list this week, and I'm very excited to
do that.
And thanks you to Claire for all the help with getting that
Sam Sethi:done.
We've already moved this podcast, Creators from TrueFans, from
Buzzsprout over to TrueFans, and we already removed Fanzone
(20:15):
from RSS.com over to TrueFans, and they're all working wonderfully.
It was super simple.
You click a button called switch to TrueFans in your Creators
dashboard.
It will then take us, I don't know, depending on the number
of episodes.
It could be 20 minutes, two hours, we don't know.
But we then move your episodes across and then we give you a
(20:37):
little URL which you put in to your existing host, which is
called a redirect.
That then sets it all up and all the directories and all the
apps then naturally just work.
And that's the method.
We're being a bit cautious because I'm very nervous on moving
anyone's podcast.
This is their you know work of love.
(20:57):
And you know screwing that up could be really painful in terms
of trying to get that back.
So we don't want to do that.
So we're gonna take step by step.
But so far, so good.
We're very excited because it's all based on streaming data
and not downloads.
And what's the benefit, Claire?
Well, there's two benefits.
The first one is it means we can measure the amount of listen
(21:21):
time your fans are actually listening to your podcast.
So instead of getting a download number, which doesn't tell
you whether they played it or didn't, this is a number of plays,
the actual listen time of each individual fan aggregated into
a total listen time and also percent completed.
So it's nice metrics to be able to give advertisers or sponsors.
(21:42):
Yes, my show gets 70 hours of listen time a week, and on average
it gets 80% completed.
And here are all the apps that my podcast was listened to, and
here are all the countries, and here are all the devices.
So lots of data that we can give you back.
So we're working on that before we open up the wait list completely.
But yeah, step by step we're getting there.
Claire Waite Brown (22:04):
Yeah.
Two things we explain that all in nice, easy way to
understand on the uh pricing page at TrueFans that
Sam and I have been working on.
But the other thing I wanted to mention was moving
Fanzone and creators over.
Obviously, I got a little bit nervous, but everything
was there.
(22:24):
All my chapters were there, all my people were there.
And since then I've added a new episode to Fanzone.
So I've gone in, added a new episode using TrueFans
as my host, as I would have done with RSS before.
I put in my SRT file for the transcript.
I put in my chapters as I would normally with my links
(22:47):
and my photos, all exactly as I would have done in
my other hosting company, and it worked superly.
Sam Sethi (22:54):
Great.
Yeah, no.
I have to say it's been a pleasure to do this because I did
worry, you know, we're we're trying to change the industry.
We're trying to do something totally new, right?
Which is not charge you a fixed fee per month.
And that's the other thing that the way that we're doing it
is different.
Because we can stream data, we can measure how much data that
(23:16):
you're actually getting consumed by your fans.
So we've set the price for the audio entry at uh 20 dollars.
20 euros, 20 pounds, 20 dollars.
But it also means that if you don't use your full allocation
of data, we will refund you the difference and put that into
your true fans wallet.
(23:36):
So you're only paying for the amount of data your fans are consuming,
which is different to what all other hosts do, where they charge
you a fixed fee, whether you've used some or all the data.
So yeah, that's one of the other things we've done differently.
Claire Waite Brown (23:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
It does make it all a lot clearer.
Well, it does to me anyway.
Sam Sethi (23:56):
Fanbox, Claire, has anyone left us a message, Claire?
Claire Waite Brown (24:00):
Yeah, we have.
We've had some um conversations recently from Martin
Lindeskog on True Fans.
He sent us a super comment.
This is interesting.
Thanks for giving me material for my podcast, Swing
That Gig.
I will add Dave Spencer's podcast, the media mentor,
so that's who we uh spoke with last time, to the pod
(24:21):
role.
Sam, I will talk with you about the hosting feature.
I am thinking of moving Tea Party Media in the future.
I am using Alitu, Captivate and Podhome as hosting
providers.
Okay, so that's good.
Just gonna have a chat with you about moving some of
those over.
And he says, here is a Starship super comment.
Now I've spoken about this before, uh, but as an explainer,
(24:43):
a Starship comment means Martin sent us 1701 SATS.
And 1701 refers to the number of the original Starship
Enterprise in the Captain James T.
Kirk Star Trek days.
So that's why that's a Starship Super Comment.
However, over on WhatsApp, Martin told us, I tried
(25:06):
to send you 1701 Satoshis with a super comment, but
I earned 100 sats instead.
Smiley face with a sticky out tongue.
Remind us why that happened, Sam.
Sam Sethi (25:18):
That happened very simply because we decided that we will pay
creators, fans, uh, 100 sats if they leave a comment.
Again, what I wanted to do it for was to show creators that
we've built these tools that you can use to incentivize fans
if you want to.
So you can make payments to your fans for listening to a trailer,
(25:41):
you can make payments for comments, you can make payments even
for them to play your podcast if you really want.
But the idea is that sats can flow two ways.
It can be fans paying creators, or it can be creators incentivising
fans.
And in this case, we have decided to incentivize people listening
to this podcast to pay them.
(26:02):
So if you're on TrueFans, listening to this podcast, we will
put a hundred sats in your wallet if you leave us a comment.
Please do.
Claire Waite Brown (26:10):
Okay, we also heard from the late Bloom actor.
Last time we talked about hosting.
For the first time, we introduced how it was going
to work.
And David John Clark says listener data from every
app, that's every in capital letters, question mark.
That's a game changer, surely.
Will that include demographics or just raw listener
(26:33):
data?
Now we've just touched on that, haven't we?
Already we were ahead of ourselves.
Sam Sethi (26:38):
David did ask us as well on another channel.
We will give you well, first of all, we don't ask for gender
or age on TrueFans.
That's not part of the profile.
We don't have that data ourselves.
And we won't be able to access that data from other apps either.
What you will get, as I said before, is the ability to know
(27:02):
that a fan has listened on Fountain or Podverse or Apple or
Spotify, and you will know how long they listened and you'll
know what percent of your podcasts they completed.
So that's the data we will be able to give you across every
app, but no, we don't have demographic data.
We'll we'll know what country they're from, and we'll know what
device they use.
(27:23):
But I think age and gender probably is a bit too much on the
dipping into the privacy part of um people's profiles.
Claire Waite Brown (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Okay, on Substack, I heard from Amanda B from Six Degrees
of Cats, who was my guest a few episodes ago, and she
said, Thank you, Claire, and Sam was great to be a
guest on the podcast.
And for those who don't know, Creators has a Substack
where I post written pieces about each episode in general,
(27:55):
but also I like to post specifically about that episode's
guest podcast.
I also post those as blogs within TrueFans itself,
which is easy to do.
So listeners can do a bit of reading if they wish directly
within the app.
I will link to that Substack in the chapter, in this
(28:15):
chapter of this episode.
But if you're listening on an app that doesn't support
chapters yet, or links in chapters, you can find the
link the old-fashioned way by scrolling down the show
notes.
Which moves me nicely on, Sam.
Yes.
I had an email from Apple Podcasts this week.
Sam Sethi (28:34):
Very nice.
Claire Waite Brown (28:36):
Telling me they are improving the experience for episode
chapters in Apple Podcasts.
Sam, what are they doing?
Sam Sethi (28:44):
Well, they're copying us, basically.
Good to see that they're listening.
Um no, the good news is, and it seemed like an obvious thing
when you start to see what they do.
So they they were transcribing every episode of every podcast.
And now, of course, what you can then do, once you've transcribed
every episode, you can build chapters very easily.
(29:05):
So the memo from Tim Cook was start using Apple AI product managers,
and this is what they're doing.
They are allowing you to do automated chapters within Apple
Podcasts app itself, which is great.
They are using the podcasting 2.0 format, which is good.
So it means that a couple of things can happen.
(29:27):
One, if you already have a host that supports podcasting 2.0
chapters, then those are the ones that will appear in the Apple
Podcast app.
But if you don't have chapters, then they will automatically
generate those chapters.
You can, for example, also opt out and say to Apple, do not
generate them for me.
(29:47):
So I think it's a lovely feature that Apple's done.
But welcome to the party, Apple.
Nice of you to catch up.
Claire Waite Brown (29:56):
I mean, I have long championed chapters.
I use them for all of my podcasts.
I often use images and links as well using the 2.0
standard as you mentioned.
Originally, in order to get Apple to accept my transcripts
rather than make its own, I would have to go to Apple
(30:17):
Podcast Connect and tick a box that says use my podcast
use my transcripts, not your own.
And so I checked to see if that was the case with chapters.
But they only have one tick box that just says either
use chapters or don't use chapters.
So my assumption was that then if you gave them chapters,
(30:38):
they'd take your chapters, but if you don't give them
chapters, they'd make their own chapters.
And then James actually did put it out on Pod News
that same day, and he's got um an FAQ that explains
all about which which I'll link to in this chapter,
funnily enough.
So uh my assumption was correct that you only need
to tick once uh or untick.
Sam Sethi (31:00):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (31:01):
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (31:02):
I think the one thing from a true fan's point of view that we
need to be very clear on.
At the moment we don't have automated transcripts and automated
chapters.
That's one thing we don't have.
It's coming very soon.
Certainly transcripts will be here very soon.
Automated transcripts, that's something that we're very keen
on and we've been um we're very close to being able to push
Sam Sethi:out.
Automated chapters will be maybe a little bit longer because
(31:25):
we need to implement some AI to do that.
But that's the goal.
Um we will get there.
Claire Waite Brown (31:30):
Okay, oh well that's good.
Um I do hear from people when I talk about transcripts
and chapters, and they'll say, well, Apple makes my
transcripts for me, so that's it.
That's all I need to do.
But when you make your own transcripts and chapters,
A, you have control over them, so you can make sure
they're how you want them to be.
But the other thing I like about them, and and correct
(31:51):
me if I'm wrong, is that you can change them, and those
changes will then be made in all the apps.
Sam Sethi (32:00):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (32:00):
Yeah.
So if I wanted to add a chapter to one of my shows
like three weeks later, I can add that chapter with
my hosting company.
Sam Sethi (32:07):
Correct.
Claire Waite Brown (32:08):
But if if Apple are making my chapters for me, I can't
change those, can I?
Sam Sethi (32:12):
No, I mean they're they're called JSON chapters because they
are dynamic.
So if you go into your existing host, any other podcasting TDA
hosts that support podcasting two chapters, then yes, it's a
separate file to your RSS feed and it's a separate file to your
audio, and therefore any change you make to those chapters can
(32:32):
be pushed out dynamically to all apps.
Yes, you're right.
If Apple makes your chapters, then they are Apple only chapters
and they do not appear in any other app.
Claire Waite Brown (32:43):
Yeah.
Good.
So make your own chapters, people.
It's fun.
Sam Sethi (32:46):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (32:47):
I also I wanted to tie this back in, actually, Sam.
I told you about this earlier this week.
So I had some feedback from the Independent Podcast
Awards about my shortlisted but not winning show, Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
And one of the judges suggested that I reduce reliance
on follow-along apps by adding companion visuals or
(33:11):
transcripts and a cross-platform walkthrough that work
in any podcast player.
Now, I'm not sure what they mean by a cross-platform
walkthrough, but in fact, I think I've done one better.
Because rather than giving myself the extra work, all
I've done is I've waited for one of the biggest podcast
apps to decide they should display my chapters and
(33:33):
become a follow-along app.
So I think I was right.
Sam Sethi (33:38):
I think so, because like all these things, I mean, no offense
to whoever he or she was as a judge, but their view was, oh,
chapters are not in Apple, therefore they don't exist.
It only exists when Apple does it for some people.
I find that quite weird.
I I do love the fact that there are more and more people waking
up to the idea of what all these tags are in podcasting 2.0.
(34:01):
I mean, a good example is the location tag, which has now come
out.
And being able to say where you record or where the subject
of your podcast is about is brilliant.
It means that when we get a critical volume of data and it's
coming, we'll be able to build services on top of that.
So, for example, one of the plans we have is to be able to say,
okay, my podcast is about creativity fans.
(34:24):
So it's creative people, but I'm in Oxford.
Okay.
Click.
I wonder if there's other people in Oxford who have a podcast
that's tagged around that same thing that I've tagged my podcast
as.
Oh, there are, there's three of us.
Why don't we all get together in real life or online?
Right.
So the thing that I'm loving about what's happening with podcasting
right now is that the core fundamentals of data transcripts,
(34:48):
chapters, location are being put in.
And then on top of that, we'll begin to see the value-added
services, you know, timed links, as Apple called them, which
is just basically looking at the transcript and seeing if there
was a mention of a book or a film or an event and highlighting
that to the listener is a secondary value to just doing the
Sam Sethi:transcript.
And I think that's what we're going to see in 2026.
(35:10):
We're going to see a lot more people building services on top
of the core data that is being exposed by the creators of podcasts.
You know, here's my guest.
Has this guest been on six other shows?
Oh, here's all the shows that guest has been on.
That's a sort of great value add that we can start to build.
Claire Waite Brown (35:29):
Yeah, I think that's what we're trying to do and keep
doing is explaining why it's good rather than focusing
on the tech and how you make it work.
We want to tell people this is why it would be a good
thing, because this can help you in this way.
Sam Sethi (35:43):
Yes.
Benefit, benefit, benefit.
Claire Waite Brown (35:45):
Exactly.
Sam Sethi (35:46):
So uh if you're listening to this podcast, uh it comes out on
Mondays, doesn't it, Claire?
So on Tuesday, you and I, November the 11th, will be in London.
We're going to be at City University, 6 30.
It's for the British Podcast Awards.
The winners will be there talking about their podcasts.
So if you fancy coming along, A, to meet me or Claire, well,
(36:06):
that's that's just a bonus, isn't it, really?
But B, if you want to listen to some award-winning podcasters
talk about how they create their podcasts and what they go through,
then I highly recommend coming.
Obviously, if you're in America or Australia, this is not going
to be very helpful to you.
So apologies.
But if you're in the UK and you're near London, then November
the 11th at City University, come and join us.
(36:28):
We'll be there.
Claire Waite Brown (36:29):
I will, of course, put a link in the chapter.
And if you are there and you know Sam and I by voice
or a still photo, do come and say hello and introduce
yourselves.
Sam Sethi (36:38):
I'm the short Indian.
Claire Waite Brown (36:39):
I'm the short redhead.
Sam Sethi (36:43):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded on Riverside, edited by the wonderful
Claire Wait Brown, and we're hosted by Bus Brown.
Claire Waite Brown (36:52):
Thought we were hosted for True Fans.
Sam Sethi (36:54):
That's why I always I just read the script, didn't I?
Okay, let me try that again.
Claire Waite Brown (37:00):
Okay, I didn't change it.
Sam Sethi (37:02):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded on Riverside.
It's edited by the wonderful Claire Wait Brown.
And we're hosted by yes, finally, TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (37:13):
Woo!
And I'll edit the script next time.
You can support this show by streaming stats from your
True Fans wallet, or leave us a super comment, or better
still, become a monthly supporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (37:28):
If you'd like to promote your podcast in this feed, then click
on your avatar and go to your creators dashboard.
On there you'll find an edit icon, it which looks like a pencil
icon.
Go to the Promotions tab, and in that promotions tab, you can
choose which podcast you'd like to put your promotion on.
In this case, find creators from TrueFans, send us a request,
(37:51):
and we'll happily approve you to be put into the feed for this
show.
Claire Waite Brown (37:57):
Fabulous.
You can find out more about how to use the features
of the TrueFans platform, including now how to claim
your show, by listening to our sister podcast Fanzone.
And if you're keen to learn more about Podcasting 2.0,
perhaps chapters, for example, there's a lot in this
(38:17):
show about chapters, and that show is my other show
called Podcasting 2.0 in practice.
So give that a look.
Don't forget, you can keep listening to hear more from
this episode's featured creator.
Okay, right, let's talk about Story of Woman before
this series.
Listeners can hear a lot more about this by listening
(38:40):
to one of the very good Creativity Found episodes.
But in the meantime, tell me about how Story of Woman
started initially, when and how, and then how it developed
until we get to this point.
Anna Stoecklein (38:53):
Yes, I love that Creativity Found episode.
I mean, I love your whole podcast and yeah, love chatting
with you then.
And um, I'm uh originally a nurse by background, so very
much not trained journalist or anything like that, as
probably many podcasters will relate to.
You know, that's one thing about it.
It's accessible to all of us.
(39:13):
But as so many of these stories start, the pandemic happened,
and I was reading all of these books, all of these nonfiction
books about women and gender, and they were all blowing
my mind left and right.
And I was just willing this information to be out in the
world.
But I knew that, you know, I look out into the world and
(39:34):
see the disconnect between what I was learning in these
books and the way that our systems actually operated.
And then I also knew there was a big kind of disconnect
in the people that might read these books because, you
know, not everybody reads, not everybody reads nonfiction,
and certainly not everybody reads nonfiction books about
women and gender.
(39:55):
So my idea really came through because I wanted to make
the ideas in these books more accessible versus like,
I want to start a podcast.
It was, I want to make them accessible, and I think podcasting
is a really great medium.
So I started to reach out to the authors of these books
and kind of sold them on my vision, if you will, of, you
(40:16):
know, I want to make your work more accessible.
Uh, I am not an expert.
All I want to be is a kind of mouthpiece.
That's really how it started, and it went better than
I ever could have dreamed, and it just kind of grew one
day at a time from there until I, yeah, most recently
found myself in Kenya on the grounds and carrying out
this latest project.
Claire Waite Brown (40:37):
You changed the content a bit in so much as the first
series was the books, but then it changed.
Tell me about the other ones.
Anna Stoecklein (40:46):
Yeah, so the first series was all books, exactly as you
say.
And then the second series, I had the absolute incredible
opportunity to interview Hillary Clinton and Cherie Blair
at the same time in a joint interview, which actually
was conducted in person, and it was my first ever in-person
(41:07):
interview, which is just wild.
But kind of centering around that opportunity.
Now, of course, they've both written books, so I didn't
have to change it because of that, but centering around
this opportunity that came up.
I mean, I guess it's kind of twofold.
One, as I delved into this more and I'm like 25 episodes
in, I start to see all the different ways that I can still
(41:29):
tell these different types of stories, but by speaking
to, for example, a politician or to someone who won a
Nobel Peace Prize for something who, you know, maybe didn't
write a book about it.
So there was already that those seeds kind of germinating,
and then this opportunity was there as well.
So season two was all about change and how do we make
(41:49):
change happen?
And Cherie and Hillary were the episode one of that, and
really looking at change within our world in general,
and then more specifically within politics.
And then I had about two people for every topic following.
So I had politicians, entrepreneurs, elite athletes, um,
(42:11):
people who are working with climate justice and climate
change, and so on and so forth.
So it all had to do with change, but within that different
industries and how are people changing the industries
that they're working in?
What needs to be changed, and where are we at?
Where are we going?
What needs to be changed, and how do we get there?
(42:31):
And then, yeah, season three, which is the latest one
before this Kenya, was um a bit of a a mix of all of it.
So there wasn't a kind of central theme such as change,
and it wasn't just authors, but it was a combination of
authors and again, politicians, entrepreneurs, people
(42:52):
out in the world, always looking at their different area
of the world through a gendered lens and essentially asking
the questions, where are we?
How did we get here?
And how do we move forward to improve the situation that
we're in.
Brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (43:06):
You mentioned about the monetization.
Does the show story of women as a whole, like, do you
have a Patreon advert sponsorship, anything like that,
however small it may be?
Anna Stoecklein (43:16):
Yeah, I have a Patreon, but that's dwindled over the years
because I guess, you know, obviously the thing with podcasting
is if you're not doing it and continuing to do it, I couldn't
really in in good faith continue to ask people to continue
to pay and support, even though it would fund future projects,
but I'm not putting out a new episode every week.
You know, there's not something that they're getting per
(43:38):
se in that traditional Patreon model where, you know,
you you pay and support and then you get these ongoing
things.
So I had Patreon back when I was more regularly releasing
episodes, but that doesn't really exist anymore.
I've tried the like programmatic ad route and just made
pennies.
It was kind of like, this isn't worth it.
(44:01):
That my listeners get to hear these ads that don't feel
super relevant to my show.
And at the end of the day, my paycheck is for like less
than a pound.
So this newest way, I'm hoping is something that I can
pursue more in the future, which is working with organizations
that are doing the kind of work of the stories that I
(44:24):
want to tell anyway.
So, like this one with Orchid Project, it's the exact
type of stories I want to be doing and telling anyway,
and where I could help bring the impact of their story
to life and then, you know, get a bit of money for it.
So that is my plan moving forward to see if I can get
some more projects like that.
So anybody got ideas out there, feel free to holler.
An organization that researches FGM and they're called
Orchid Project.
We came up with this idea together, which was essentially
helping to bring their research to life through storytelling,
because, you know, as I'm sure everyone can appreciate
research and numbers and spreadsheets, not entirely exciting
and you know, gonna get people wanting to learn more about
(00:27):
this issue.
And obviously, what people remember are people and stories
and things that tug on your heartstrings.
Sam Sethi (00:34):
Instead of getting a download number, which doesn't tell you
whether they played it or didn't, this is number of plays, the
actual listen time of each fan, aggregated into a total listen
time.
It's nice metrics to be able to give advertisers or sponsors.
Yes, my show gets 70 hours of listen time a week.
Claire Waite Brown (00:52):
In fact, I think I've done one better, because rather
than giving myself the extra work, all I've done is
I've waited for one of the biggest podcast apps to
decide they should display my chapters and become a
follow-along app.
Welcome to Creators from TrueFans.
I'm independent podcaster Claire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:12):
And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:15):
Each episode we'll chat with an independent creator,
whether a podcaster or musician, about their creative
experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:23):
And we'll answer questions from independent creators about the
TrueFans features that can help them with discovery, interactivity,
and monetisation.
Claire Waite Brown (01:33):
We'll get interactive and see what our listeners have
been saying in the comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:38):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world that could be
of benefit to independent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:45):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:47):
I'm very well, thank you very much.
Which independent podcast are we going to feature this week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:51):
This time, I'm chatting with Anna Stoecklein about
the most recent series of her podcast, which is called
The Story of Woman.
The most recent series was recorded on location in
Kenya and Nairobi.
And for this three-part series, Anna spoke with survivors,
activists, and community leaders to reveal the human
(02:12):
stories behind the headlines and the statistics around
female genital mutilation.
So here's my chat with Anna.
I'm here today with Anna Stoecklein.
Anna, how are you?
I am super.
How are you today, Claire?
Very well, thank you.
Start by telling me about your podcast, what it's called,
(02:34):
and what is it all about.
Anna Stoecklein (02:36):
Yeah, so my podcast is called The Story of Woman, and
I'm looking at the world through a gendered lens.
So topics have ranged from politics and healthcare to
the way we design our city streets and everything beyond.
And most recently, I undertook a project that took me
down to Kenya, where I did a three-part in-person series
(03:00):
looking at the topic of female genital mutilation.
And this was a story that really looked at the strength
and untapped potential of women within these communities
and also what these girls and women and the communities
as a whole are doing to rewrite that story and to change
(03:22):
things from the inside out.
So we may get into it more, but just to say, as harrowing
as a topic as that kind of is and can be, for me, it was
really a story of strength and power and what these girls
and women and communities are doing to stop a tradition,
a practice that's been around since the pyramids.
Claire Waite Brown (03:43):
It definitely does that in the finished article.
As a listener, that's how I feel about it.
But also teaching me more into the background and why
people do it for their very different reasons, what
that background is.
So that was really useful for me as well.
Thinking of that particular series, why, how, how did
(04:08):
you come to decide to cover this topic, to take yourself
to Africa?
Tell me a bit more about that.
Anna Stoecklein (04:14):
Yeah.
So thank you, by the way, for what you said about it kind
of clearing up some things with that issue, that topic
altogether, because that was definitely a big um motivating
factor to create it was to help dispel, you know, myths.
And especially for us who come from cultures where it's
not practiced as widely, though it is still practiced.
It all just aligned pretty, pretty serendipitously.
(04:36):
So I was living in East Africa for about six months.
So I didn't go there for this project, but I went there
for personal reasons, um, of which, you know, we can delve
into, but that might need to be a different episode.
But I found myself um living in Kenya and the region for
about six months.
And while I was down there, I was just thinking about
(05:00):
how there's all these humanitarian organizations, NGOs,
nonprofits that exist in the region, you know, all these
different topics and issues that I had kind of more theoretically
spoken about or spoken to with my previous seasons.
Now I'm kind of I'm there where a lot of these organizations
are on the ground doing different types of work.
(05:21):
So that just kind of gave me an idea of perhaps I can
team up with one of them and help to tell their story.
It helped to tell one of these stories in this way.
Because before this series, all of my seasons had been,
you know, sat behind a computer screen and speaking to
someone who's an expert in their area in one way or another.
Whereas this would be, you know, on the ground and speaking
(05:43):
to all different types of people, you know, more everyday
people and with a whole lot of voices versus just one
one-on-one interview.
So I kind of cast the net far and wide with this idea
in mind and ended up connecting with an organization that
researches FGM and they're called Orchid Project, and
(06:04):
they have headquarters here in London as well as in Nairobi.
And we came up with this idea together, which was essentially
helping to bring their research to life through storytelling,
because, you know, as I'm sure everyone can appreciate,
research and numbers and spreadsheets, not entirely exciting
and, you know, gonna get people wanting to learn more
(06:26):
about this issue.
And obviously, what people remember are people and stories
and things that tug on your on your heartstrings more
than statistics, which is what this research company focuses
on, which is very important.
But so I was, yeah, I was tasked with helping to bring
their story to life and the impact of the work that they
do through the podcast series.
Claire Waite Brown (06:48):
I know they have their own experts, some of whom are
on the show.
Were they able to put you in touch with other people
as well?
Anna Stoecklein (06:56):
Exactly.
So they have a lot of different partners on the ground.
So they don't just work in Kenya, they're global.
But since we were really looking at that region, they
have partners on the ground that they work with.
So I was put in touch with them and the series, I speak
to two quite different communities.
One is a Somali community in Nairobi, and one is a Maasai
(07:18):
kind of indigenous community and group out in rural Kenya.
And we picked the two different communities because their
stories are are quite different, and that's a little microcosm
of how all of the stories of why it happens and and why
it's hard to stop and all of that.
You know, it's very, very different depending on which
community that we're speaking about and which time period
(07:39):
within that community we're speaking about.
Um, so I was put in touch with different organizations
that are working on the ground to kind of educate and
transform from within, within these two different communities.
Claire Waite Brown (07:54):
You've already said about sitting on a computer doing
interviews.
It's quite a different overall show.
It's like a documentary, you've got clips, you've got
music.
So a different form of production for you, I imagine.
How did you find the time to do that?
Did you enjoy that?
Just tell me a bit about that.
Anna Stoecklein (08:12):
I love this question because I am just filled with joy,
like recalling the process of this type of production.
And it indicated to me that this is the type of creative
storytelling I like to do.
It was very different than, yes, sitting behind a computer
screen interviewing someone and you know doing a bit of
editing, but a lot of that is kind of pre-production,
(08:35):
getting your questions in order and kind of already having
that flow.
Whereas this was I ended up with 30 plus hours of raw
audio of all these different voices, the vast majority
of which, you know, probably 90% of which were in Swahili
or in um local Maasai language, neither of which I speak.
So there was also that component to it.
(08:56):
But you end up with 30 plus hours of raw audio that you
then have to come up with this story that is a mix of
exactly, as you say, the voices of the people I spoke
with and the narration that I wrote out and then narrated
in between.
So it was a very, very different process, but it was a
big learning for me that this felt um it's felt very aligned
(09:19):
with kind of how I how I create and want to create and
want to put things out into the world.
So yeah, very different and more challenging in a lot
of ways, but the kind of challenge that I hope to be able
to do again and again in my career.
Well, you did it beautifully.
Oh, thank you, Claire.
Really means a lot.
(09:41):
I loved it.
Claire Waite Brown (09:42):
I'm gonna talk about time and funding and practicalities.
Now, you said you were in um Africa for a time, and
I know that you have work to do to earn money.
What was your situation when you were working on this
particular show?
Are you getting funding?
Did you happen to just have time to be able to do it,
(10:03):
or were you fitting it around other things?
Anna Stoecklein (10:06):
Yeah, so when I went down and started this six-month venture
down there, I was doing a bit of freelance work here and
there.
And then I kind of dropped that because I realized my
time there was finite and I wanted to just fully immerse
in the new location that I found myself in and the new
culture and life.
So I wasn't working by the time this project came up.
(10:30):
So I had time and space, and then I did get some monetary
compensation from the organization to bring this story
to life.
I will say, I mean, I'm I'm very, very appreciative of
it, and it was what I asked for, but I was able to offer
a very, a decently low sum for what it was.
(10:52):
Number one, because I was already there.
So I didn't, you know, cover my flight to and from Kenya
because I was already there.
And that was a part of my pitch, really, was like, I'm
here.
So while I'm here, let's do something.
And also, this was my first kind of project of this scope.
And I wanted to really just get my foot in the door.
(11:14):
So even though I did get compensation, which, you know,
I'm I'm sure everyone listening can appreciate is just
not the easiest thing to do in this industry.
If and when I continue down this path, that will still
be something I kind of have to improve, if you will.
But I did get something and I had the space because I
wasn't doing any other kind of job at the time.
Claire Waite Brown (11:35):
But there will be value for you from that.
A, that learning that you've just said, and B, the
learning of the actual doing a different style of style
of show, having that to show other people.
Anna Stoecklein (11:46):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, I probably would have done it for free if it came
down to it for exactly, exactly those reasons.
Yeah.
The skills, the experience, you know, and just the experience
I got to have speaking to, you know, the people that that
opened up and shared their hearts and their stories with
me.
You know, that you can't even put a price tag on.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (12:08):
So I'm gonna ask podcasty questions now.
Anna Stoecklein (12:10):
Okay.
Claire Waite Brown (12:13):
Let's start with your frustrations and excitements
about podcasting, whether your experience, the podcast
industry, stuff you have to do around it, what are
your thoughts on those?
Anna Stoecklein (12:27):
Yeah, well, let's start with frustrations.
Um, I mean, one is, you know, difficult to monetize.
I would venture to say that's a big thing for all creatives.
That's just an ongoing theme.
We have our creative endeavors, and then we have the things
on the side that can help fund those.
And podcasting, yeah, difficult and monetizing.
(12:48):
That's an ongoing frustration.
I think the other thing that came up when you asked that
is I don't know, for me, I like the storytelling component.
And I guess too, this is again probably the same plight
of all creatives, not just podcasters.
We like the creative component, but it's then everything
else you have to do outside of that to package it up and
(13:11):
present it to the world and market it.
And, you know, I I'm I'm not a social media person, never
have been, probably never will be, but to have a podcast
and to not tell the world about it, you know, then no
one hears it.
And so it's it's yeah, really just everything outside
of the actual podcast creation storytelling component
(13:33):
Anna Stoecklein:itself.
Um then what excites me, I mean, I guess really it's just
how accessible it is.
So me, I was working for a health tech startup.
I had no, you know, I never interviewed anyone in my life.
I had no background in this at all.
(13:55):
And I was able to, with the help of Google, uh Googling
how-to podcast and things such as that, um, slowly over
time completely change my career and hopefully put stories
out into the world that have made an impact and a difference.
So that's huge.
And for me, that's worth putting up with the all all the
(14:15):
all the frustrations because that's just a part of it.
Yeah.
So the the how accessible it is and the fact that literally
anything is is possible.
Claire Waite Brown (14:25):
They go together, don't they?
The accessibility and the freedom.
I mean, we wouldn't possibly have our the voices that
we do have with our shows if we had to go through radio
executives or something.
Anna Stoecklein (14:36):
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's it.
That is that's a great point.
Claire Waite Brown (14:40):
Do you know, have you heard, what do you know, if anything,
about podcasting 2.0 features?
Anna Stoecklein (14:47):
Not much.
I know it's like outside of the actual podcast episode
and things that can help you get found and discovered.
Well done.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Claire Waite Brown (14:59):
Yeah.
Oh, exactly that.
It's the it's the wider things that you can have included
in your RSS feed, but they point to other places.
So, transcript, for example, is the very basic example,
which is good for your SEO.
Chapters I always bang on about because I love them.
And then there are elements of monetization.
So I was thinking about this series, and I was thinking
(15:21):
about your connection with the Orchid project.
Because there are ways with the modern podcast apps,
including TrueFans, where your listeners can send you
money within the app.
Every podcast that I listen to, an episode or two for
this, I stream a small amount of money per minute to
that show.
(15:42):
So when on TrueFans you go and claim your show, you'll
find this little wallet, this digital wallet that you
didn't know was there, and it'll have a tiny amount
of money in it.
If more people do that, that tiny amount of money will
get bigger.
Yeah.
And one of the things that you can do with that digital
wallet, and when you set up how you want your payments
(16:02):
to be, is you can set up what are known as splits.
So you could split the payments between yourself, for
example, the Orchid project.
You might want to, for example, say on your episode,
if you stream me money or send me a super comment,
so much of that percent will go to this person, and
(16:24):
so much percent of that will go to this person.
That was just an idea for the way you're working with
these guys, and it might make people more willing to
give you some money.
I mean, I think it's a bit mean to say put a charity
in there to make people want to pay you, but people
don't tend to want to pay us because they think we
want to do it for love, which we do, but Yeah, but
we also mean to eat.
(16:44):
Yes, exactly.
And then the other one is another monetization one,
which I know that your host company doesn't support,
but maybe in the future, and you can do it directly
in TrueFans, there's a feature, it's called the funding
feature.
And if your hosting company allows it, you put in the
link of where you want this funding icon that appears
(17:04):
on modern podcasting apps to go to.
So for example, I have one on TrueFans, there's a symbol
of a hand with a heart on it.
And if anyone clicks on that on, say, podcasting 2.0
in practice, they'll be taken to my Buy Me a Coffee
page.
So they can go straight from the app to where you want
your funding to go.
So those were just two of the ones that I thought might
(17:26):
be, you know, useful, personal, relevant to your particular
show.
Anna Stoecklein (17:31):
Totally.
I appreciate that very much.
And I have taken some notes here as you were speaking,
so I can look into all of this afterwards.
Claire Waite Brown (17:39):
You know where I am if you have any questions and uh
I can make things sound easy.
So thank you so, so much, Anna.
It's been really lovely to chat with you.
Tell me how and where everybody can find you in all
in especially in those social media places that none
of us like.
Anna Stoecklein (17:58):
Yes, please go find me there.
Make this make this a little easier.
The website is the story of womanpodcast.com, and the
social media handles are some variation of the story of
woman.
So if you just put the story of woman, and that's woman,
like womankind, not women, then you will be able to find
me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube.
(18:20):
Also from the website, you can get direct links to there.
But yeah, just type in the story of woman.
Yeah, brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (18:27):
Thanks again, Anna.
Anna Stoecklein (18:28):
It's been lovely to chat.
See you soon.
Thank you so much, Claire.
Super lovely.
Claire Waite Brown (18:34):
Anna tells me more about the origins of the story of
woman and the series that came before the one we focused
on in our chat, including an episode Anna recorded
with Hillary Clinton and Cherie Blair.
You'll find out more about all of that at the end of
this episode of Creators.
Sam Sethi (18:53):
There is a link to the Story of Woman in the show notes and
new episodes are highlighted on the homepage at TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (18:59):
And if you would like to explore anything that Anna
and I talked about in that interview, please leave
us a comment or super comment, which, as you may know
by now, is super easy to do in TrueFans by clicking
on the speech bubble icon, or there is a tab under
the icons called comments.
Sam Sethi (19:18):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast creator,
why not put yourself forward to be a future guest on Creators
from TrueFans?
It's great to talk to Claire and also a great way to get publicity
for your podcast.
Claire Waite Brown (19:31):
If you'd like to chat with us about your independent
podcast or your music, send a comment or super comment
in TrueFans to any creators episode by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or on the comments tab.
Last time we were on, we talked about the wait list
for hosting.
Have we moved further along with that now, Sam?
Sam Sethi (19:53):
No.
Joking, I'm joking.
Yes, of course we have.
We opened up the wait list this week, and I'm very excited to
do that.
And thanks you to Claire for all the help with getting that
Sam Sethi:done.
We've already moved this podcast, Creators from TrueFans, from
Buzzsprout over to TrueFans, and we already removed Fanzone
(20:15):
from RSS.com over to TrueFans, and they're all working wonderfully.
It was super simple.
You click a button called switch to TrueFans in your Creators
dashboard.
It will then take us, I don't know, depending on the number
of episodes.
It could be 20 minutes, two hours, we don't know.
But we then move your episodes across and then we give you a
(20:37):
little URL which you put in to your existing host, which is
called a redirect.
That then sets it all up and all the directories and all the
apps then naturally just work.
And that's the method.
We're being a bit cautious because I'm very nervous on moving
anyone's podcast.
This is their you know work of love.
(20:57):
And you know screwing that up could be really painful in terms
of trying to get that back.
So we don't want to do that.
So we're gonna take step by step.
But so far, so good.
We're very excited because it's all based on streaming data
and not downloads.
And what's the benefit, Claire?
Well, there's two benefits.
The first one is it means we can measure the amount of listen
(21:21):
time your fans are actually listening to your podcast.
So instead of getting a download number, which doesn't tell
you whether they played it or didn't, this is a number of plays,
the actual listen time of each individual fan aggregated into
a total listen time and also percent completed.
So it's nice metrics to be able to give advertisers or sponsors.
(21:42):
Yes, my show gets 70 hours of listen time a week, and on average
it gets 80% completed.
And here are all the apps that my podcast was listened to, and
here are all the countries, and here are all the devices.
So lots of data that we can give you back.
So we're working on that before we open up the wait list completely.
But yeah, step by step we're getting there.
Claire Waite Brown (22:04):
Yeah.
Two things we explain that all in nice, easy way to
understand on the uh pricing page at TrueFans that
Sam and I have been working on.
But the other thing I wanted to mention was moving
Fanzone and creators over.
Obviously, I got a little bit nervous, but everything
was there.
(22:24):
All my chapters were there, all my people were there.
And since then I've added a new episode to Fanzone.
So I've gone in, added a new episode using TrueFans
as my host, as I would have done with RSS before.
I put in my SRT file for the transcript.
I put in my chapters as I would normally with my links
(22:47):
and my photos, all exactly as I would have done in
my other hosting company, and it worked superly.
Sam Sethi (22:54):
Great.
Yeah, no.
I have to say it's been a pleasure to do this because I did
worry, you know, we're we're trying to change the industry.
We're trying to do something totally new, right?
Which is not charge you a fixed fee per month.
And that's the other thing that the way that we're doing it
is different.
Because we can stream data, we can measure how much data that
(23:16):
you're actually getting consumed by your fans.
So we've set the price for the audio entry at uh 20 dollars.
20 euros, 20 pounds, 20 dollars.
But it also means that if you don't use your full allocation
of data, we will refund you the difference and put that into
your true fans wallet.
(23:36):
So you're only paying for the amount of data your fans are consuming,
which is different to what all other hosts do, where they charge
you a fixed fee, whether you've used some or all the data.
So yeah, that's one of the other things we've done differently.
Claire Waite Brown (23:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
It does make it all a lot clearer.
Well, it does to me anyway.
Sam Sethi (23:56):
Fanbox, Claire, has anyone left us a message, Claire?
Claire Waite Brown (24:00):
Yeah, we have.
We've had some um conversations recently from Martin
Lindeskog on True Fans.
He sent us a super comment.
This is interesting.
Thanks for giving me material for my podcast, Swing
That Gig.
I will add Dave Spencer's podcast, the media mentor,
so that's who we uh spoke with last time, to the pod
(24:21):
role.
Sam, I will talk with you about the hosting feature.
I am thinking of moving Tea Party Media in the future.
I am using Alitu, Captivate and Podhome as hosting
providers.
Okay, so that's good.
Just gonna have a chat with you about moving some of
those over.
And he says, here is a Starship super comment.
Now I've spoken about this before, uh, but as an explainer,
(24:43):
a Starship comment means Martin sent us 1701 SATS.
And 1701 refers to the number of the original Starship
Enterprise in the Captain James T.
Kirk Star Trek days.
So that's why that's a Starship Super Comment.
However, over on WhatsApp, Martin told us, I tried
(25:06):
to send you 1701 Satoshis with a super comment, but
I earned 100 sats instead.
Smiley face with a sticky out tongue.
Remind us why that happened, Sam.
Sam Sethi (25:18):
That happened very simply because we decided that we will pay
creators, fans, uh, 100 sats if they leave a comment.
Again, what I wanted to do it for was to show creators that
we've built these tools that you can use to incentivize fans
if you want to.
So you can make payments to your fans for listening to a trailer,
(25:41):
you can make payments for comments, you can make payments even
for them to play your podcast if you really want.
But the idea is that sats can flow two ways.
It can be fans paying creators, or it can be creators incentivising
fans.
And in this case, we have decided to incentivize people listening
to this podcast to pay them.
(26:02):
So if you're on TrueFans, listening to this podcast, we will
put a hundred sats in your wallet if you leave us a comment.
Please do.
Claire Waite Brown (26:10):
Okay, we also heard from the late Bloom actor.
Last time we talked about hosting.
For the first time, we introduced how it was going
to work.
And David John Clark says listener data from every
app, that's every in capital letters, question mark.
That's a game changer, surely.
Will that include demographics or just raw listener
(26:33):
data?
Now we've just touched on that, haven't we?
Already we were ahead of ourselves.
Sam Sethi (26:38):
David did ask us as well on another channel.
We will give you well, first of all, we don't ask for gender
or age on TrueFans.
That's not part of the profile.
We don't have that data ourselves.
And we won't be able to access that data from other apps either.
What you will get, as I said before, is the ability to know
(27:02):
that a fan has listened on Fountain or Podverse or Apple or
Spotify, and you will know how long they listened and you'll
know what percent of your podcasts they completed.
So that's the data we will be able to give you across every
app, but no, we don't have demographic data.
We'll we'll know what country they're from, and we'll know what
device they use.
(27:23):
But I think age and gender probably is a bit too much on the
dipping into the privacy part of um people's profiles.
Claire Waite Brown (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Okay, on Substack, I heard from Amanda B from Six Degrees
of Cats, who was my guest a few episodes ago, and she
said, Thank you, Claire, and Sam was great to be a
guest on the podcast.
And for those who don't know, Creators has a Substack
where I post written pieces about each episode in general,
(27:55):
but also I like to post specifically about that episode's
guest podcast.
I also post those as blogs within TrueFans itself,
which is easy to do.
So listeners can do a bit of reading if they wish directly
within the app.
I will link to that Substack in the chapter, in this
(28:15):
chapter of this episode.
But if you're listening on an app that doesn't support
chapters yet, or links in chapters, you can find the
link the old-fashioned way by scrolling down the show
notes.
Which moves me nicely on, Sam.
Yes.
I had an email from Apple Podcasts this week.
Sam Sethi (28:34):
Very nice.
Claire Waite Brown (28:36):
Telling me they are improving the experience for episode
chapters in Apple Podcasts.
Sam, what are they doing?
Sam Sethi (28:44):
Well, they're copying us, basically.
Good to see that they're listening.
Um no, the good news is, and it seemed like an obvious thing
when you start to see what they do.
So they they were transcribing every episode of every podcast.
And now, of course, what you can then do, once you've transcribed
every episode, you can build chapters very easily.
(29:05):
So the memo from Tim Cook was start using Apple AI product managers,
and this is what they're doing.
They are allowing you to do automated chapters within Apple
Podcasts app itself, which is great.
They are using the podcasting 2.0 format, which is good.
So it means that a couple of things can happen.
(29:27):
One, if you already have a host that supports podcasting 2.0
chapters, then those are the ones that will appear in the Apple
Podcast app.
But if you don't have chapters, then they will automatically
generate those chapters.
You can, for example, also opt out and say to Apple, do not
generate them for me.
(29:47):
So I think it's a lovely feature that Apple's done.
But welcome to the party, Apple.
Nice of you to catch up.
Claire Waite Brown (29:56):
I mean, I have long championed chapters.
I use them for all of my podcasts.
I often use images and links as well using the 2.0
standard as you mentioned.
Originally, in order to get Apple to accept my transcripts
rather than make its own, I would have to go to Apple
(30:17):
Podcast Connect and tick a box that says use my podcast
use my transcripts, not your own.
And so I checked to see if that was the case with chapters.
But they only have one tick box that just says either
use chapters or don't use chapters.
So my assumption was that then if you gave them chapters,
(30:38):
they'd take your chapters, but if you don't give them
chapters, they'd make their own chapters.
And then James actually did put it out on Pod News
that same day, and he's got um an FAQ that explains
all about which which I'll link to in this chapter,
funnily enough.
So uh my assumption was correct that you only need
to tick once uh or untick.
Sam Sethi (31:00):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (31:01):
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (31:02):
I think the one thing from a true fan's point of view that we
need to be very clear on.
At the moment we don't have automated transcripts and automated
chapters.
That's one thing we don't have.
It's coming very soon.
Certainly transcripts will be here very soon.
Automated transcripts, that's something that we're very keen
on and we've been um we're very close to being able to push
Sam Sethi:out.
Automated chapters will be maybe a little bit longer because
(31:25):
we need to implement some AI to do that.
But that's the goal.
Um we will get there.
Claire Waite Brown (31:30):
Okay, oh well that's good.
Um I do hear from people when I talk about transcripts
and chapters, and they'll say, well, Apple makes my
transcripts for me, so that's it.
That's all I need to do.
But when you make your own transcripts and chapters,
A, you have control over them, so you can make sure
they're how you want them to be.
But the other thing I like about them, and and correct
(31:51):
me if I'm wrong, is that you can change them, and those
changes will then be made in all the apps.
Sam Sethi (32:00):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (32:00):
Yeah.
So if I wanted to add a chapter to one of my shows
like three weeks later, I can add that chapter with
my hosting company.
Sam Sethi (32:07):
Correct.
Claire Waite Brown (32:08):
But if if Apple are making my chapters for me, I can't
change those, can I?
Sam Sethi (32:12):
No, I mean they're they're called JSON chapters because they
are dynamic.
So if you go into your existing host, any other podcasting TDA
hosts that support podcasting two chapters, then yes, it's a
separate file to your RSS feed and it's a separate file to your
audio, and therefore any change you make to those chapters can
(32:32):
be pushed out dynamically to all apps.
Yes, you're right.
If Apple makes your chapters, then they are Apple only chapters
and they do not appear in any other app.
Claire Waite Brown (32:43):
Yeah.
Good.
So make your own chapters, people.
It's fun.
Sam Sethi (32:46):
Yes.
Claire Waite Brown (32:47):
I also I wanted to tie this back in, actually, Sam.
I told you about this earlier this week.
So I had some feedback from the Independent Podcast
Awards about my shortlisted but not winning show, Podcasting
2.0 in practice.
And one of the judges suggested that I reduce reliance
on follow-along apps by adding companion visuals or
(33:11):
transcripts and a cross-platform walkthrough that work
in any podcast player.
Now, I'm not sure what they mean by a cross-platform
walkthrough, but in fact, I think I've done one better.
Because rather than giving myself the extra work, all
I've done is I've waited for one of the biggest podcast
apps to decide they should display my chapters and
(33:33):
become a follow-along app.
So I think I was right.
Sam Sethi (33:38):
I think so, because like all these things, I mean, no offense
to whoever he or she was as a judge, but their view was, oh,
chapters are not in Apple, therefore they don't exist.
It only exists when Apple does it for some people.
I find that quite weird.
I I do love the fact that there are more and more people waking
up to the idea of what all these tags are in podcasting 2.0.
(34:01):
I mean, a good example is the location tag, which has now come
out.
And being able to say where you record or where the subject
of your podcast is about is brilliant.
It means that when we get a critical volume of data and it's
coming, we'll be able to build services on top of that.
So, for example, one of the plans we have is to be able to say,
okay, my podcast is about creativity fans.
(34:24):
So it's creative people, but I'm in Oxford.
Okay.
Click.
I wonder if there's other people in Oxford who have a podcast
that's tagged around that same thing that I've tagged my podcast
as.
Oh, there are, there's three of us.
Why don't we all get together in real life or online?
Right.
So the thing that I'm loving about what's happening with podcasting
right now is that the core fundamentals of data transcripts,
(34:48):
chapters, location are being put in.
And then on top of that, we'll begin to see the value-added
services, you know, timed links, as Apple called them, which
is just basically looking at the transcript and seeing if there
was a mention of a book or a film or an event and highlighting
that to the listener is a secondary value to just doing the
Sam Sethi:transcript.
And I think that's what we're going to see in 2026.
(35:10):
We're going to see a lot more people building services on top
of the core data that is being exposed by the creators of podcasts.
You know, here's my guest.
Has this guest been on six other shows?
Oh, here's all the shows that guest has been on.
That's a sort of great value add that we can start to build.
Claire Waite Brown (35:29):
Yeah, I think that's what we're trying to do and keep
doing is explaining why it's good rather than focusing
on the tech and how you make it work.
We want to tell people this is why it would be a good
thing, because this can help you in this way.
Sam Sethi (35:43):
Yes.
Benefit, benefit, benefit.
Claire Waite Brown (35:45):
Exactly.
Sam Sethi (35:46):
So uh if you're listening to this podcast, uh it comes out on
Mondays, doesn't it, Claire?
So on Tuesday, you and I, November the 11th, will be in London.
We're going to be at City University, 6 30.
It's for the British Podcast Awards.
The winners will be there talking about their podcasts.
So if you fancy coming along, A, to meet me or Claire, well,
(36:06):
that's that's just a bonus, isn't it, really?
But B, if you want to listen to some award-winning podcasters
talk about how they create their podcasts and what they go through,
then I highly recommend coming.
Obviously, if you're in America or Australia, this is not going
to be very helpful to you.
So apologies.
But if you're in the UK and you're near London, then November
the 11th at City University, come and join us.
(36:28):
We'll be there.
Claire Waite Brown (36:29):
I will, of course, put a link in the chapter.
And if you are there and you know Sam and I by voice
or a still photo, do come and say hello and introduce
yourselves.
Sam Sethi (36:38):
I'm the short Indian.
Claire Waite Brown (36:39):
I'm the short redhead.
Sam Sethi (36:43):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded on Riverside, edited by the wonderful
Claire Wait Brown, and we're hosted by Bus Brown.
Claire Waite Brown (36:52):
Thought we were hosted for True Fans.
Sam Sethi (36:54):
That's why I always I just read the script, didn't I?
Okay, let me try that again.
Claire Waite Brown (37:00):
Okay, I didn't change it.
Sam Sethi (37:02):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded on Riverside.
It's edited by the wonderful Claire Wait Brown.
And we're hosted by yes, finally, TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (37:13):
Woo!
And I'll edit the script next time.
You can support this show by streaming stats from your
True Fans wallet, or leave us a super comment, or better
still, become a monthly supporter of this show.
Sam Sethi (37:28):
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Go to the Promotions tab, and in that promotions tab, you can
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In this case, find creators from TrueFans, send us a request,
(37:51):
and we'll happily approve you to be put into the feed for this
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Claire Waite Brown (37:57):
Fabulous.
You can find out more about how to use the features
of the TrueFans platform, including now how to claim
your show, by listening to our sister podcast Fanzone.
And if you're keen to learn more about Podcasting 2.0,
perhaps chapters, for example, there's a lot in this
(38:17):
show about chapters, and that show is my other show
called Podcasting 2.0 in practice.
So give that a look.
Don't forget, you can keep listening to hear more from
this episode's featured creator.
Okay, right, let's talk about Story of Woman before
this series.
Listeners can hear a lot more about this by listening
(38:40):
to one of the very good Creativity Found episodes.
But in the meantime, tell me about how Story of Woman
started initially, when and how, and then how it developed
until we get to this point.
Anna Stoecklein (38:53):
Yes, I love that Creativity Found episode.
I mean, I love your whole podcast and yeah, love chatting
with you then.
And um, I'm uh originally a nurse by background, so very
much not trained journalist or anything like that, as
probably many podcasters will relate to.
You know, that's one thing about it.
It's accessible to all of us.
(39:13):
But as so many of these stories start, the pandemic happened,
and I was reading all of these books, all of these nonfiction
books about women and gender, and they were all blowing
my mind left and right.
And I was just willing this information to be out in the
world.
But I knew that, you know, I look out into the world and
(39:34):
see the disconnect between what I was learning in these
books and the way that our systems actually operated.
And then I also knew there was a big kind of disconnect
in the people that might read these books because, you
know, not everybody reads, not everybody reads nonfiction,
and certainly not everybody reads nonfiction books about
women and gender.
(39:55):
So my idea really came through because I wanted to make
the ideas in these books more accessible versus like,
I want to start a podcast.
It was, I want to make them accessible, and I think podcasting
is a really great medium.
So I started to reach out to the authors of these books
and kind of sold them on my vision, if you will, of, you
(40:16):
know, I want to make your work more accessible.
Uh, I am not an expert.
All I want to be is a kind of mouthpiece.
That's really how it started, and it went better than
I ever could have dreamed, and it just kind of grew one
day at a time from there until I, yeah, most recently
found myself in Kenya on the grounds and carrying out
this latest project.
Claire Waite Brown (40:37):
You changed the content a bit in so much as the first
series was the books, but then it changed.
Tell me about the other ones.
Anna Stoecklein (40:46):
Yeah, so the first series was all books, exactly as you
say.
And then the second series, I had the absolute incredible
opportunity to interview Hillary Clinton and Cherie Blair
at the same time in a joint interview, which actually
was conducted in person, and it was my first ever in-person
(41:07):
interview, which is just wild.
But kind of centering around that opportunity.
Now, of course, they've both written books, so I didn't
have to change it because of that, but centering around
this opportunity that came up.
I mean, I guess it's kind of twofold.
One, as I delved into this more and I'm like 25 episodes
in, I start to see all the different ways that I can still
(41:29):
tell these different types of stories, but by speaking
to, for example, a politician or to someone who won a
Nobel Peace Prize for something who, you know, maybe didn't
write a book about it.
So there was already that those seeds kind of germinating,
and then this opportunity was there as well.
So season two was all about change and how do we make
(41:49):
change happen?
And Cherie and Hillary were the episode one of that, and
really looking at change within our world in general,
and then more specifically within politics.
And then I had about two people for every topic following.
So I had politicians, entrepreneurs, elite athletes, um,
(42:11):
people who are working with climate justice and climate
change, and so on and so forth.
So it all had to do with change, but within that different
industries and how are people changing the industries
that they're working in?
What needs to be changed, and where are we at?
Where are we going?
What needs to be changed, and how do we get there?
(42:31):
And then, yeah, season three, which is the latest one
before this Kenya, was um a bit of a a mix of all of it.
So there wasn't a kind of central theme such as change,
and it wasn't just authors, but it was a combination of
authors and again, politicians, entrepreneurs, people
(42:52):
out in the world, always looking at their different area
of the world through a gendered lens and essentially asking
the questions, where are we?
How did we get here?
And how do we move forward to improve the situation that
we're in.
Brilliant.
Claire Waite Brown (43:06):
You mentioned about the monetization.
Does the show story of women as a whole, like, do you
have a Patreon advert sponsorship, anything like that,
however small it may be?
Anna Stoecklein (43:16):
Yeah, I have a Patreon, but that's dwindled over the years
because I guess, you know, obviously the thing with podcasting
is if you're not doing it and continuing to do it, I couldn't
really in in good faith continue to ask people to continue
to pay and support, even though it would fund future projects,
but I'm not putting out a new episode every week.
You know, there's not something that they're getting per
(43:38):
se in that traditional Patreon model where, you know,
you you pay and support and then you get these ongoing
things.
So I had Patreon back when I was more regularly releasing
episodes, but that doesn't really exist anymore.
I've tried the like programmatic ad route and just made
pennies.
It was kind of like, this isn't worth it.
(44:01):
That my listeners get to hear these ads that don't feel
super relevant to my show.
And at the end of the day, my paycheck is for like less
than a pound.
So this newest way, I'm hoping is something that I can
pursue more in the future, which is working with organizations
that are doing the kind of work of the stories that I
(44:24):
want to tell anyway.
So, like this one with Orchid Project, it's the exact
type of stories I want to be doing and telling anyway,
and where I could help bring the impact of their story
to life and then, you know, get a bit of money for it.
So that is my plan moving forward to see if I can get
some more projects like that.
So anybody got ideas out there, feel free to holler.
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