September 29, 2025 • 26 mins
Podcasters perplexed at how to turn their passion into profit.
Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan search out answers to the question, "Where's the money in podcasting?" with their new show PodBiz, dedicated to transparent conversations about podcast monetization across the industry.
In this episode of Creators, Norma Jean joins us to discuss how PodBiz explores diverse revenue streams through conversations with platform executives, adtech specialists and independent creators.
We explore the value-for-value model, where listeners can directly support creators based on the perceived worth of the content they consume, an approach that eliminates intermediaries and fosters a unique connection between the podcaster and their audience.
Sam introduces the new TrueFans wallet page, which makes it easier for creators to track all incoming and outgoing transactions. Listeners benefit too, with their own wallet tab showing payments to podcasters and earnings from engagement activities.
Sam highlights some of the ways that listeners can earn these micropayments, from becoming a superfan to listening to Fanzone from TrueFans or commenting on this show.
We also explore exciting industry developments including Podcasthon in March 2026, where podcasters dedicate episodes to charities, and potential global music licensing that could transform podcasting into "the new radio."
Discover how both creators and listeners can benefit from the evolving podcast monetization landscape. Leave us a comment to join the conversation – we'll even pay you a small amount for your thoughts!
Find TrueFans here
Music: How It Is from Ketsa Music
Feedback: TrueFans Support
Read: Creators Blog
Recommendations: Creators Podroll
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Norma Jean Belenky (00:06):
I love talking to everybody about
everything, especially when itcomes to podcast monetization.
So to get to share thoseconversations, it's like being
at a conference and introducingtwo people that you know should
meet.
And in this case, the twopeople are the guest and our
audience.
Monetization looks differentfor every show and looks
different for every creator.
And value for value is just themost direct you can get, right?
(00:26):
It's, hey, I appreciate this.
And the time that you put intothis is valuable.
And the entertainment or theinformation that I'm getting out
of this is valuable.
Claire Waite Brown (00:36):
We wanted to encourage everyone to learn a
bit more about TrueFans.
So we also give them some setsfor listening to Fanzone, don't
we?
Sam Sethi (00:47):
We give them money for listening to Fanzone.
And as you asked me a couple ofweeks back, we also pay you if
you leave a comment now on thisshow.
Claire Waite Brown (00:56):
Oh, brilliant! Welcome to Creators
from True Fans.
I'm independent podcasterClaire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:04):
And I'm Sam Second, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:06):
Each episode, we'll chat with an
independent creator, whether apodcaster or musician, about
their creative experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:14):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity, andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:24):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:30):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world
that could be of benefit toindependent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:37):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:38):
Very good, very good.
Claire, which independentpodcaster are we featuring this
week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:44):
Well, one of my favourite types of podcast
is a podcast about podcasting.
Sam Sethi (01:50):
No navel gazing there.
Claire Waite Brown (01:52):
Oh, I love them.
It's so better.
Um, Norma Jean Belenky and JohnKiernan have honed in on a
topic, specifically asking thequestion, where is the money in
podcasting?
And I chatted with NJ to findout more.
I'm here with Norma JeanBelenky.
Hi, Norma Jean, how are you?
Norma Jean Belenky (02:13):
Hi, Claire.
I'm so happy to be here.
What a wild week it has been.
I know that this is coming outsometime in the future, but for
everybody listening, I recentlylaunched PodBiz.
So that has taken over my life.
And um I'm doing all right.
I'm doing really, really well.
Claire Waite Brown (02:30):
Well, well done for getting it launched.
I've managed to have a bit of alisten.
Tell me what is PodBiz?
What is it all about?
Norma Jean Belenky (02:39):
Absolutely.
Well, PodBiz is really thebrainchild of myself and John
Kiernan, a former colleague.
And, you know, I think when youmeet somebody that you just
have that dynamic with, you'relike, okay, what else can we do?
And we've really noticed thatwithin the industry, there's
been a lot of talk, both infront of the mic and behind
closed doors about where themoney is in podcasting.
(03:01):
And that can look a lot ofdifferent ways, which I'm
excited to chat about with youtoday.
But I kind of, you know, Ireally wanted to have
transparent conversations.
I think as a woman, for peoplewho are marginalized,
traditionally, maybe who haven'thad as much opportunity, you
don't know necessarily how muchother people are getting paid.
Are you getting paid more orless?
How much is fair to get paid asan editor, as a podcast show
(03:24):
producer?
Anything like that is reallyimportant.
It's nice to get a lot ofinsight from the ad tech guys
and a lot of ad agencies.
I love ad nerds.
I call them ad nerds foreverybody listening who's been
on the show who is an ad nerd,know that I say that with
admiration and love.
Um, I want to like dive deepinto the tech, how quick ads can
(03:45):
be inserted and streaming atmicroseconds and you know, the
value there.
But I also, you know, verydramatically, just hearing all
these little snippets andconversations and panels, and I
really just wanted to kind ofhave my like Jerry Maguire
moment, right?
Like, show me the money.
So, you know, I think a lot ofpeople are asking that question
these days, and we're reallyexcited to answer it with people
(04:08):
across the industry about whatmonetization looks like in so
many different ways.
We launched initially withthree episodes that really kind
of run the gamut of the kind ofconversations we want to have.
So we had Millie Bodes, VP ofACAS, come on talking about how
they craft their product forcreators to monetize.
We had Adam McNeil from Adoptercome on speaking about what
(04:31):
questions he answers and asksbrands when they want to place
ads and how he builds that trustso they get ROI and that you
know they trust him to for thatplacement, for that strategy and
for those relationships thathe's built within the podcasting
ad industry.
Huge.
And then our third episode iswith an independent creator
(04:51):
named Danielle Bezalel, who hasa podcast called Sex with DB.
And she is a sex educator, shehas a master's, and she makes
upwards of $140,000 a year froma single feed that gets 11 to
1200 downloads per episode fromconsistently providing sponsor
value across socials, where shehas huge followings, across
(05:12):
newsletters, across live events,and a lot of companies within
that space can't advertise onMeta or Google because of the
nature of their content.
So it's definitely fun andinteresting to hear all of the
different ways and journeys thatthe industry as a whole is
monetizing from super, superindie creator to the ad tech, ad
(05:34):
nerd side of it to, you know,the platform side of it as well.
Claire Waite Brown (05:38):
And speaking of those people then and the
variety that you're talkingabout, how have you gone about
sourcing, choosing,communicating with the guests?
And I know you've got more inthe bag as well.
Norma Jean Belenky (05:51):
I do.
I do.
I don't want to be stressed.
I feel like if I can avoidbeing stressed, my life is going
okay.
So what I like to do is prepareand set up systems.
And so strategically, we askeda lot of people who we really
respect within the industry.
John and I both have a podcastplatform background, more on the
(06:12):
marketing.
John, also customer successside, me more on the event,
podcast side and sales.
But I also think it's somethingwhere when you have those
industry relationships, you knowwho you want to talk to, you
know what they've got to say,but you don't know, you know,
necessarily the updates.
You don't know what they'rewilling to say on the mic.
You don't know what newdevelopments have occurred.
(06:33):
And so that's really exciting.
And also, you know, I lovetalking to everybody about
everything, especially when itcomes to podcast monetization.
So to get to share thoseconversations, it's like being
at a conference and introducingtwo people that you know should
meet.
And in this case, the twopeople are the guest and our
audience.
You know, so I think it's acombination of getting a good
balance, right?
In terms of production and myproduction strategy, like I
(06:55):
said, don't want to be stressed.
I want to reduce stress, likeso much.
And so I always like to haveepisodes that are ready to go,
maybe that are evergreen ormaybe that are just a little bit
more long tail in theirrelevance.
And then I can mix those upwith guests that have a hot take
about something that'shappening right now or a good
(07:16):
balance between ad tech andindie creator and platform.
And so it's important to have abit of a lucky dip kind of feel
to your podcast.
You want to have the structure.
People want that subconsciouslyto have consistency.
But you also don't want it tobe the same kind of guest every
time, especially with a show onmonetization where we ask a lot
(07:36):
of similar questions to peoplebecause they're all gonna have
different answers, which isreally exciting.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (07:42):
And this is a new project you've already
said about liking to beorganized, however you fit this
in among everything else.
Norma Jean Belenky (07:53):
Well, I don't have kids and I'm single.
So I have some free time.
No, not really.
It's a labor of love.
I think what a lot of peoplehave said to me, and what really
rings true, and and what Ireally speak to creators about
as well is that that excitementis gonna drive a lot of things
and to roll with it, right?
(08:14):
When you're launching somethingand you've got that momentum
and you're like so psyched, doit.
Do it when you have the energybecause pod fade is real and I
want to launch with enoughepisodes.
You know, I did that I don'thave to be stressed.
You know, I really wanted toline up all my ducks and also,
you know, a lot of my clients Iwork with in marketing and
audience development.
And so if I don't do it right,who will?
Claire Waite Brown (08:37):
So yeah.
Thinking about your guests andyour clients and yourself, you
may have a changing perspectiveon this dependent on who you're
thinking about.
But what is something withregards to podcasting, whether
it's independent, whether it'sthe industry, you know, what is
something that frustrates youabout it and what is something
(08:59):
that really excites you aboutit?
Norma Jean Belenky (09:02):
Well, I think it's the same thing.
I think it's that it's everevolving.
I think that it's frustratingbecause as soon as you wrap your
head around something, it canflip.
But it's also exciting becausethere's always new developments,
there's always newtechnological innovations,
there's always new companies,new creators entering the space.
And so that's exciting as well.
Claire Waite Brown (09:23):
Yeah, it's always changing.
I recently did my coursePodcasting 2.0 in Practice, and
I had to say a lot on that.
Things may change.
What I'm saying now might bedifferent in the future.
Please like use your commonsense.
When it comes to thetechnology, definitely
(09:44):
everything is changing.
Here at TrueFans, one of thetaglines we have is monetizing
fandom.
And we talk a lot aboutmonetization from your
listeners, you know, financialsupport from listeners.
Have you got episodes in thefuture that cover that topic?
Norma Jean Belenky (10:03):
Absolutely.
Our fourth episode is featuringJames Cridland, which we're so
thrilled he was generous enoughto come on the show.
Uh, and he really spoke a lotabout value for value.
And so I think just coming outof the gate, he really set the
tone with that.
And we do have some upcomingguests speaking about that as
well, for sure.
It's really important, youknow.
I think monetization looksdifferent for every show and
(10:26):
looks different for everycreator.
And value for value is just themost direct you can get, right?
It's, hey, I appreciate this.
And the time that you put intothis is valuable, and the
entertainment or the informationthat I'm getting out of this is
valuable.
And so I think that directexchange really is one of the
purest examples and has been atenet within the industry, a
(10:49):
very important one.
Claire Waite Brown (10:50):
Oh, brilliant.
Good.
I shall look forward to those.
Just also saying I have givenyou value.
It's a very small amount ofvalue that I give to everybody.
We'll take it.
Yeah, exactly.
So I've been streaming fivesets per minute for the episodes
that I've listened to so far.
And I noticed that you haven'tclaimed your show on TrueFans.
Norma Jean Belenky (11:12):
Oh no, don't call us out, Claire.
We'll have claimed it by thetime this comes out.
Delete this, edit it out.
No.
Lots of people haven't claimedtheir shows on TrueFans, I'm
sure.
Stop.
No, I meant to before werecorded today, and I'm so
sorry.
I've just I got into LinkedInto to share another post, and I
just I got sucked in.
I have such a long list.
Claire Waite Brown (11:33):
Absolutely.
When you do it, you'll have asuper surprise.
Don't get too excited, but yourwallet will have about 11 pence
in it from me.
Norma Jean Belenky (11:44):
Hey, we're doing that's a great number.
11's a lucky number.
I'm here for it.
Hey, what can I get?
What can I get for how muchBitcoin can I get for 11 cents?
That's what I want to know.
Claire Waite Brown (11:53):
It's um it's like a hundred and something
sats.
I I stream in sats because I'vegot used to that, but it tells
me what the um conversion is.
And even to people here whohaven't claimed their show,
unlike you, obviously, who nowhas claimed their show.
Correct.
Norma Jean Belenky (12:09):
Future me, we did good.
Claire Waite Brown (12:12):
For people that haven't yet claimed their
show.
This is for the listeners, evenif you're streaming payments to
a show that hasn't beenclaimed, those payments will be
saved in the true fans wallet,ready for when that host claims
that show.
Talking of podcasting 2.0, aswe were talking about value for
value, I know you are up onthis.
What are some of your favoritefeatures of podcasting 2.0?
Norma Jean Belenky (12:35):
Oh gosh.
I think accessibility is thebiggest one.
You know, we could talk aboutindividual features all day, but
I also think just the ethos ofit is really important in terms
of just making thingsaccessible.
I'm a very inclusive person.
And I feel like if you're ableto help someone become a fan and
become part of your communitybecause you added transcripts or
(13:00):
made your show a little bitmore accessible, that to me
really speaks to podcasting 2.0.
Claire Waite Brown (13:05):
Brilliant.
How can people connect withyou?
Tell me again about the name ofthe show and PodBiz.
Norma Jean Belenky (13:12):
Let's get down to PodBiz.
Honestly, the best place toconnect with me is LinkedIn.
Send me a message, reach out.
I'm always happy to get on acall.
I think I shoot my calendarlink through to people all the
time.
That's really where I hang out.
You know, I think in terms ofthe podcasting industry from an
industry up standpoint, youknow, if we're talking about the
tech side of things, if we'retalking about creator economy,
(13:35):
if we're talking about trends,LinkedIn is really where I hang.
I also feel really grateful forthe community that podcasting
has become and is, and that I'vebeen so warmly welcomed into
and hopefully welcomed othersinto.
And so usually that for me ison LinkedIn.
I've got my LinkedIn, obviouslyat uh PodBiz.
(13:55):
We're also on LinkedIn.
So we have a very clip forwardstrategy.
We're really into snappity,snap, snap, choppy clips.
So you can find those onLinkedIn, even if you, you know,
don't have maybe the bandwidthto catch episodes of the show on
TrueFans, which we hope you do,please pay us 11 more cents.
Um we'll we'll make more thanthat, I'm sure.
But you can always reach out tous at PodBiz.
(14:17):
And then my company is NJBMedia.
If you ever want to talkpodcast launch strategy,
audience dev, and I really justhelp people create that cohesive
brand message that can thengrow their show.
Fantastic.
Claire Waite Brown (14:30):
Thank you so much, NJ.
It's been lovely to chat withyou.
Likewise, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks, Claire.
Sam Sethi (14:36):
There you go.
Uh Norma Jean Belenky,affectionately known as NJ to
her friends.
Now, that's um a really goodpodcast.
I think they're going to coversome really interesting topics.
They've had some great guestson so far as well.
Noted that you and I have notbeen invited yet, but that's all
right.
Subtle hint.
(14:56):
Now, there is a link to PodBizin our show notes, and new
episodes are highlighted on thehomepage at TrueFans.
So the podcast is easy for youto find there.
Claire Waite Brown (15:06):
Absolutely.
And if you'd like to exploreanything that NJ talked about in
that interview, please do leaveus a comment or a super
comment, which is super easy todo in TrueFans, by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or thetab called comments under the
icons, and we can strike up aconversation.
Sam Sethi (15:27):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
this show, Creators fromTrueFans?
Again by leaving us a commentin the TrueFans app.
Claire Waite Brown (15:38):
Fabulous.
If you'd like to chat with usabout your independent podcast
or your music, send a comment orsuper comment in TrueFans to
any creators episode by clickingon the speech bubble icon or on
the comments tab.
Sam Sethi (15:54):
Claire, it's question time.
What do you want to ask me thisweek?
Claire Waite Brown (15:58):
Well, fittingly, since NJ's show is
all about monetizing, I knowthat you have been working on
something rather nifty thatmakes it easier for creators who
have claimed their shows onTrueFans to see the monetary
transactions their shows havereceived.
How does this work and how docreators find it?
Sam Sethi (16:20):
Okay, so one of the problems is yes, we give you a
wallet, and yes, you can havetransactions and people can pay
you as well.
But actually finding all of thepayments in and out of your
wallet was proving difficult.
It was there if you had a lookaround the activities, it was
there somewhere.
So we created a wallet tab inthe creator's dashboard, and
(16:41):
that shows you all the money iscoming in and out of your
wallet, a bit like a ledger.
So you can see the transaction.
Was it for a comment?
Was it for play?
Was it for sharing?
Did somebody give you money?
Or did you give money back to afan because you wanted to pay
them?
So it's a good way for you toquickly see money's in and out
of your wallet.
Claire Waite Brown (17:01):
Yeah, it's really handy.
What about listeners who don'thave their own podcasts?
How do they see what they'vepaid to which shows and how?
Sam Sethi (17:12):
Yeah, again, we could have done that through the My
Activity in your Profile, butyou had to work it out.
So we decided that what wouldbe super easy to do is to create
another tab in your profilecall wallet, and in there you
can see what you've earned, whatyou've paid out to podcasters,
and equally, as a super fan,what you may have earned as
well.
Claire Waite Brown (17:31):
When you say a listener has earned, how do
listeners who don't have showsearn into their wallet?
Sam Sethi (17:39):
So there's a couple of ways.
When you first join TrueFans,you can earn money into your
wallet by completing tasks.
Those tasks are there to learnand see how to best use
TrueFans.
So for example, when you makeyour first comment, you'll get
paid.
When you share your firstpodcast, when you become a fan,
they're not massive amounts, butthey will be an amount that you
(17:59):
earn.
Now, equally, if you are adedicated follower of a
particular show, so you're thesuper fan, then you can earn
money from any other moniesbeing uh paid to that creator or
podcaster.
So as an example, Claire, yourshow, Creativity Found, there
will be a superfan.
That superfan will earn 1% ofyour SATS.
(18:20):
Now, in the creator'sdashboard, you can go and remove
that 1% or you can increasethat amount to your superfan.
But at the moment, thedefault's set to 1%.
So as a super fan, you canearn.
As a normal fan, you can earnwhen you're on board.
And sometimes creators will payyou to listen to their trailer
as well.
(18:41):
So there are lots of differentways in the system to earn money
as well as to pay creators thatyou like.
Claire Waite Brown (18:47):
And we wanted to encourage everyone to
learn a bit more about truefans.
So we also give them some satsfor listening to Fanzone, don't
we?
Sam Sethi (18:59):
We give them money for listening to Fanzone.
And as you asked me a couple ofweeks back, we also pay you if
you leave a comment now on thisshow.
Oh, brilliant.
It's all you know what, let'sencourage people to do it.
And the best way sometimes iswith micro payments.
So we will give you a smallmicro payment if you leave us a
comment.
You can give us a super commentas well, which pays us, but we
(19:21):
will pay you a small amount backof that.
Claire Waite Brown (19:23):
Brilliant.
So I highly encourage everybodyto test that out for us by um
leaving us a comment and uhseeing if you get some sats
back.
That's really encouraging.
Sam Sethi (19:34):
Claire, let's move on to the little look around the
world, see what's interestingfor independent podcast
creators.
There is an event calledPodcast a Thon.
It's an event in its fourthyear and it's open for
pre-registration.
What's this one about?
Claire Waite Brown (19:49):
It's actually pronounced podcasthon
because it's French originally,but it's quite difficult for
English people to say.
Yeah, you have to have a littlebit of a French accent on it.
Right.
And it's it's a reallybrilliant initiative.
I took part in it last year.
It started off French language,it is now French language and
English language, and I believethis year uh Spanish speaking as
(20:13):
well.
So you decide to dedicate oneepisode of your podcast to a
charity.
You can do that however youwish.
You can encourage donations tothat, but you don't have to.
And what happens is between aparticular time in March, you
say, I'm going to put out myepisode, it's going to be on
this charity.
And then that gets featured onthe podcast on website, and that
(20:37):
gets promoted there.
And it's just a nice way forall these podcasts to share the
love and give some promotion forcharities of their choice.
So last year I did do one forCreativity Found and it was a
charity called Dementia ArtsTrust.
So it was very relevant, takingart classes to care homes to
(20:58):
help people suffering fromdementia and their carers.
So that's what Podcasthon isall about.
You can pre-register now.
You don't have to say this iswho I'm going to be doing.
You just have to say, yep, I'minterested simply by visiting
podcasthon.org.
So it'sP-O-D-C-A-S-T-H-O-N.org.
Sam Sethi (21:18):
Nice.
And this is going to go livefrom March the 14th to the 20th,
2026.
And last year, over 1,500podcasters from 40 countries
dedicated one episode to theirnon-profit of choice.
Great initiative.
Now, the other thing that weoften hear podcasters talk about
(21:38):
is can they include music intheir podcasts?
The old adage of, well, if Iinclude music, Spotify will
probably kill me, or YouTubewill take it down, or even other
podcast apps, even TrueFans, ifyou don't have a license.
Now there is a license tag.
We use it in Truefans.
It's part of the podcasting 2.0community.
(21:59):
And the idea is that everypodcast has a copyright with all
rights reserved.
But if you would like people touse, let's say, longer clips
from your show, you reallyshould give a license.
And a license which could be aCreative Commons license, which
says, yes, you can use bits ofmy show, but attribute that back
(22:22):
to me.
So say you got this from myshow, or no, I don't want you to
use any of my show.
Now one of the things thepodcasting 2.0 community did was
look at including music.
And that was through companieslike Wavelake and RSS Blue and
TrueFans got involved.
(22:42):
The idea was independent musicartists would upload their music
and not stick a license to it,because it could then be used
inside your podcast for free.
Except Spotify still probablytake it out.
Now there is a big push now toask for music companies to allow
a licensing globally so thatpodcast hosting companies could
(23:06):
administer it and that companiescould then allow, say Spotify
would then say, Yep, that'sallowed, it's got fair use on
it, maybe, and you might pay asmall license to the originating
artist.
So that's one of the thingsthat's being pushed around at
the moment.
Would you like to include musicin any of your shows, Claire?
Claire Waite Brown (23:24):
I've been banned on places because of the
music, and I've got a license,and then I've had to go back in
and say I've got a license.
You have to go back and proveit once it's been taken away
from you, even though you'vepaid for it.
I don't quite understand, Ihave to say, how this would
work.
Sam Sethi (23:40):
So Adam Curry, the inventor of podcasting, did have
a music show called BoosterGrand Ball, and that used
licensed free music.
Yet Spotify still wouldn'tallow it, probably YouTube
wouldn't allow it, maybe Apple,but all the podcasting 2.0 apps
allowed it.
And the idea was to create likea radio show, which was Adam's
background as a disc jockey.
(24:01):
And it worked withmicropayments, and what happened
was if I was streaming money toAdam's show, when the music
played, it would do somethingcalled wallet switching, which
would shift the money I wasstreaming to the artist, and
then when the music finished itwould shift back to Adam.
And I think live podcasting,once we get it much more adopted
(24:21):
by the host, but also simplerfor creators, will be the new
radio.
Because radio stations aroundthe world are closing and we are
seeing more and more presentersturning to podcasting often,
but what they want to do is goback to doing their soul show or
their music show or theirwhatever it may be.
And so I think this is animportant step where if we can
(24:43):
get a global license for musicinto podcasting, I think it'll
be amazing towards turningpodcasting or live podcasting
into the new radio.
Claire Waite Brown (24:52):
Oh, okay.
So would you mean then if therewas a license tag, then I put
the information in there thatsays I've got this license, and
then the 2.0 apps would readthat and say, We'll play it and
right, okay, I do understand.
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (25:10):
And I think, you know, it doesn't only have to be
live podcasting.
I used to do a a radio show, itwas a soul music show.
And I used to put that out as apodcast.
And often it get taken down,but I try it occasionally.
But that show as a podcastwould have been great, because I
could then recorded it, mixedthe music, put it out, and then
created a classic soul show ofnew music in the genre that I
(25:33):
enjoy.
That can't happen and I don'tdo it anymore because I know
that it would get taken down.
So what's the point?
But if this works, I think wecould open up a really new,
exciting avenue for podcasting.
Claire Waite Brown (25:45):
Brilliant.
Well, I'm sure you will keep usposted, Sam.
Indeed.
Sam Sethi (25:49):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded onRiverside, edited by Claire
herself, and we're hosted byBuzzsprout.
Claire Waite Brown (25:57):
You can always support this show by
streaming SATS from yourTrueFans wallet or leaving us a
super comment, or better still,become a monthly supporter of
this show.
Sam Sethi (26:09):
If you'd like to promote your podcast on creators
from TrueFans, you can now sendus a request in your admin
dashboard.
Claire Waite Brown (26:16):
You can find out more about how to use the
features of the TrueFansplatform and earn a little bit
of sats by doing it, asmentioned earlier, by listening
to our sister podcast fanzone.
And if you're keen to learnmore about podcasting 2.0 in
general, check out mycourse-based podcast called
Podcasting 2.0 in Practice,which is a finalist in the
(26:41):
Independent Podcast Awards.
Woohoo!
Sam Sethi (26:44):
Hooray! And we will in the future be talking about a
new awards page on TrueFans.
Brilliant.
I love talking to everybody about
everything, especially when itcomes to podcast monetization.
So to get to share thoseconversations, it's like being
at a conference and introducingtwo people that you know should
meet.
And in this case, the twopeople are the guest and our
audience.
Monetization looks differentfor every show and looks
different for every creator.
And value for value is just themost direct you can get, right?
(00:26):
It's, hey, I appreciate this.
And the time that you put intothis is valuable.
And the entertainment or theinformation that I'm getting out
of this is valuable.
Claire Waite Brown (00:36):
We wanted to encourage everyone to learn a
bit more about TrueFans.
So we also give them some setsfor listening to Fanzone, don't
we?
Sam Sethi (00:47):
We give them money for listening to Fanzone.
And as you asked me a couple ofweeks back, we also pay you if
you leave a comment now on thisshow.
Claire Waite Brown (00:56):
Oh, brilliant! Welcome to Creators
from True Fans.
I'm independent podcasterClaire Waite Brown.
Sam Sethi (01:04):
And I'm Sam Second, the CEO of TrueFans.
Claire Waite Brown (01:06):
Each episode, we'll chat with an
independent creator, whether apodcaster or musician, about
their creative experiences.
Sam Sethi (01:14):
And we'll answer questions from independent
creators about the TrueFansfeatures that can help them with
discovery, interactivity, andmonetization.
Claire Waite Brown (01:24):
We'll get interactive and see what our
listeners have been saying inthe comments and super comments.
Sam Sethi (01:30):
And discuss what's happening in the wider world
that could be of benefit toindependent creators.
Hi Claire.
Claire Waite Brown (01:37):
Hi Sam, how are you?
Sam Sethi (01:38):
Very good, very good.
Claire, which independentpodcaster are we featuring this
week?
Claire Waite Brown (01:44):
Well, one of my favourite types of podcast
is a podcast about podcasting.
Sam Sethi (01:50):
No navel gazing there.
Claire Waite Brown (01:52):
Oh, I love them.
It's so better.
Um, Norma Jean Belenky and JohnKiernan have honed in on a
topic, specifically asking thequestion, where is the money in
podcasting?
And I chatted with NJ to findout more.
I'm here with Norma JeanBelenky.
Hi, Norma Jean, how are you?
Norma Jean Belenky (02:13):
Hi, Claire.
I'm so happy to be here.
What a wild week it has been.
I know that this is coming outsometime in the future, but for
everybody listening, I recentlylaunched PodBiz.
So that has taken over my life.
And um I'm doing all right.
I'm doing really, really well.
Claire Waite Brown (02:30):
Well, well done for getting it launched.
I've managed to have a bit of alisten.
Tell me what is PodBiz?
What is it all about?
Norma Jean Belenky (02:39):
Absolutely.
Well, PodBiz is really thebrainchild of myself and John
Kiernan, a former colleague.
And, you know, I think when youmeet somebody that you just
have that dynamic with, you'relike, okay, what else can we do?
And we've really noticed thatwithin the industry, there's
been a lot of talk, both infront of the mic and behind
closed doors about where themoney is in podcasting.
(03:01):
And that can look a lot ofdifferent ways, which I'm
excited to chat about with youtoday.
But I kind of, you know, Ireally wanted to have
transparent conversations.
I think as a woman, for peoplewho are marginalized,
traditionally, maybe who haven'thad as much opportunity, you
don't know necessarily how muchother people are getting paid.
Are you getting paid more orless?
How much is fair to get paid asan editor, as a podcast show
(03:24):
producer?
Anything like that is reallyimportant.
It's nice to get a lot ofinsight from the ad tech guys
and a lot of ad agencies.
I love ad nerds.
I call them ad nerds foreverybody listening who's been
on the show who is an ad nerd,know that I say that with
admiration and love.
Um, I want to like dive deepinto the tech, how quick ads can
(03:45):
be inserted and streaming atmicroseconds and you know, the
value there.
But I also, you know, verydramatically, just hearing all
these little snippets andconversations and panels, and I
really just wanted to kind ofhave my like Jerry Maguire
moment, right?
Like, show me the money.
So, you know, I think a lot ofpeople are asking that question
these days, and we're reallyexcited to answer it with people
(04:08):
across the industry about whatmonetization looks like in so
many different ways.
We launched initially withthree episodes that really kind
of run the gamut of the kind ofconversations we want to have.
So we had Millie Bodes, VP ofACAS, come on talking about how
they craft their product forcreators to monetize.
We had Adam McNeil from Adoptercome on speaking about what
(04:31):
questions he answers and asksbrands when they want to place
ads and how he builds that trustso they get ROI and that you
know they trust him to for thatplacement, for that strategy and
for those relationships thathe's built within the podcasting
ad industry.
Huge.
And then our third episode iswith an independent creator
(04:51):
named Danielle Bezalel, who hasa podcast called Sex with DB.
And she is a sex educator, shehas a master's, and she makes
upwards of $140,000 a year froma single feed that gets 11 to
1200 downloads per episode fromconsistently providing sponsor
value across socials, where shehas huge followings, across
(05:12):
newsletters, across live events,and a lot of companies within
that space can't advertise onMeta or Google because of the
nature of their content.
So it's definitely fun andinteresting to hear all of the
different ways and journeys thatthe industry as a whole is
monetizing from super, superindie creator to the ad tech, ad
(05:34):
nerd side of it to, you know,the platform side of it as well.
Claire Waite Brown (05:38):
And speaking of those people then and the
variety that you're talkingabout, how have you gone about
sourcing, choosing,communicating with the guests?
And I know you've got more inthe bag as well.
Norma Jean Belenky (05:51):
I do.
I do.
I don't want to be stressed.
I feel like if I can avoidbeing stressed, my life is going
okay.
So what I like to do is prepareand set up systems.
And so strategically, we askeda lot of people who we really
respect within the industry.
John and I both have a podcastplatform background, more on the
(06:12):
marketing.
John, also customer successside, me more on the event,
podcast side and sales.
But I also think it's somethingwhere when you have those
industry relationships, you knowwho you want to talk to, you
know what they've got to say,but you don't know, you know,
necessarily the updates.
You don't know what they'rewilling to say on the mic.
You don't know what newdevelopments have occurred.
(06:33):
And so that's really exciting.
And also, you know, I lovetalking to everybody about
everything, especially when itcomes to podcast monetization.
So to get to share thoseconversations, it's like being
at a conference and introducingtwo people that you know should
meet.
And in this case, the twopeople are the guest and our
audience.
You know, so I think it's acombination of getting a good
balance, right?
In terms of production and myproduction strategy, like I
(06:55):
said, don't want to be stressed.
I want to reduce stress, likeso much.
And so I always like to haveepisodes that are ready to go,
maybe that are evergreen ormaybe that are just a little bit
more long tail in theirrelevance.
And then I can mix those upwith guests that have a hot take
about something that'shappening right now or a good
(07:16):
balance between ad tech andindie creator and platform.
And so it's important to have abit of a lucky dip kind of feel
to your podcast.
You want to have the structure.
People want that subconsciouslyto have consistency.
But you also don't want it tobe the same kind of guest every
time, especially with a show onmonetization where we ask a lot
(07:36):
of similar questions to peoplebecause they're all gonna have
different answers, which isreally exciting.
Yeah.
Claire Waite Brown (07:42):
And this is a new project you've already
said about liking to beorganized, however you fit this
in among everything else.
Norma Jean Belenky (07:53):
Well, I don't have kids and I'm single.
So I have some free time.
No, not really.
It's a labor of love.
I think what a lot of peoplehave said to me, and what really
rings true, and and what Ireally speak to creators about
as well is that that excitementis gonna drive a lot of things
and to roll with it, right?
(08:14):
When you're launching somethingand you've got that momentum
and you're like so psyched, doit.
Do it when you have the energybecause pod fade is real and I
want to launch with enoughepisodes.
You know, I did that I don'thave to be stressed.
You know, I really wanted toline up all my ducks and also,
you know, a lot of my clients Iwork with in marketing and
audience development.
And so if I don't do it right,who will?
Claire Waite Brown (08:37):
So yeah.
Thinking about your guests andyour clients and yourself, you
may have a changing perspectiveon this dependent on who you're
thinking about.
But what is something withregards to podcasting, whether
it's independent, whether it'sthe industry, you know, what is
something that frustrates youabout it and what is something
(08:59):
that really excites you aboutit?
Norma Jean Belenky (09:02):
Well, I think it's the same thing.
I think it's that it's everevolving.
I think that it's frustratingbecause as soon as you wrap your
head around something, it canflip.
But it's also exciting becausethere's always new developments,
there's always newtechnological innovations,
there's always new companies,new creators entering the space.
And so that's exciting as well.
Claire Waite Brown (09:23):
Yeah, it's always changing.
I recently did my coursePodcasting 2.0 in Practice, and
I had to say a lot on that.
Things may change.
What I'm saying now might bedifferent in the future.
Please like use your commonsense.
When it comes to thetechnology, definitely
(09:44):
everything is changing.
Here at TrueFans, one of thetaglines we have is monetizing
fandom.
And we talk a lot aboutmonetization from your
listeners, you know, financialsupport from listeners.
Have you got episodes in thefuture that cover that topic?
Norma Jean Belenky (10:03):
Absolutely.
Our fourth episode is featuringJames Cridland, which we're so
thrilled he was generous enoughto come on the show.
Uh, and he really spoke a lotabout value for value.
And so I think just coming outof the gate, he really set the
tone with that.
And we do have some upcomingguests speaking about that as
well, for sure.
It's really important, youknow.
I think monetization looksdifferent for every show and
(10:26):
looks different for everycreator.
And value for value is just themost direct you can get, right?
It's, hey, I appreciate this.
And the time that you put intothis is valuable, and the
entertainment or the informationthat I'm getting out of this is
valuable.
And so I think that directexchange really is one of the
purest examples and has been atenet within the industry, a
(10:49):
very important one.
Claire Waite Brown (10:50):
Oh, brilliant.
Good.
I shall look forward to those.
Just also saying I have givenyou value.
It's a very small amount ofvalue that I give to everybody.
We'll take it.
Yeah, exactly.
So I've been streaming fivesets per minute for the episodes
that I've listened to so far.
And I noticed that you haven'tclaimed your show on TrueFans.
Norma Jean Belenky (11:12):
Oh no, don't call us out, Claire.
We'll have claimed it by thetime this comes out.
Delete this, edit it out.
No.
Lots of people haven't claimedtheir shows on TrueFans, I'm
sure.
Stop.
No, I meant to before werecorded today, and I'm so
sorry.
I've just I got into LinkedInto to share another post, and I
just I got sucked in.
I have such a long list.
Claire Waite Brown (11:33):
Absolutely.
When you do it, you'll have asuper surprise.
Don't get too excited, but yourwallet will have about 11 pence
in it from me.
Norma Jean Belenky (11:44):
Hey, we're doing that's a great number.
11's a lucky number.
I'm here for it.
Hey, what can I get?
What can I get for how muchBitcoin can I get for 11 cents?
That's what I want to know.
Claire Waite Brown (11:53):
It's um it's like a hundred and something
sats.
I I stream in sats because I'vegot used to that, but it tells
me what the um conversion is.
And even to people here whohaven't claimed their show,
unlike you, obviously, who nowhas claimed their show.
Correct.
Norma Jean Belenky (12:09):
Future me, we did good.
Claire Waite Brown (12:12):
For people that haven't yet claimed their
show.
This is for the listeners, evenif you're streaming payments to
a show that hasn't beenclaimed, those payments will be
saved in the true fans wallet,ready for when that host claims
that show.
Talking of podcasting 2.0, aswe were talking about value for
value, I know you are up onthis.
What are some of your favoritefeatures of podcasting 2.0?
Norma Jean Belenky (12:35):
Oh gosh.
I think accessibility is thebiggest one.
You know, we could talk aboutindividual features all day, but
I also think just the ethos ofit is really important in terms
of just making thingsaccessible.
I'm a very inclusive person.
And I feel like if you're ableto help someone become a fan and
become part of your communitybecause you added transcripts or
(13:00):
made your show a little bitmore accessible, that to me
really speaks to podcasting 2.0.
Claire Waite Brown (13:05):
Brilliant.
How can people connect withyou?
Tell me again about the name ofthe show and PodBiz.
Norma Jean Belenky (13:12):
Let's get down to PodBiz.
Honestly, the best place toconnect with me is LinkedIn.
Send me a message, reach out.
I'm always happy to get on acall.
I think I shoot my calendarlink through to people all the
time.
That's really where I hang out.
You know, I think in terms ofthe podcasting industry from an
industry up standpoint, youknow, if we're talking about the
tech side of things, if we'retalking about creator economy,
(13:35):
if we're talking about trends,LinkedIn is really where I hang.
I also feel really grateful forthe community that podcasting
has become and is, and that I'vebeen so warmly welcomed into
and hopefully welcomed othersinto.
And so usually that for me ison LinkedIn.
I've got my LinkedIn, obviouslyat uh PodBiz.
(13:55):
We're also on LinkedIn.
So we have a very clip forwardstrategy.
We're really into snappity,snap, snap, choppy clips.
So you can find those onLinkedIn, even if you, you know,
don't have maybe the bandwidthto catch episodes of the show on
TrueFans, which we hope you do,please pay us 11 more cents.
Um we'll we'll make more thanthat, I'm sure.
But you can always reach out tous at PodBiz.
(14:17):
And then my company is NJBMedia.
If you ever want to talkpodcast launch strategy,
audience dev, and I really justhelp people create that cohesive
brand message that can thengrow their show.
Fantastic.
Claire Waite Brown (14:30):
Thank you so much, NJ.
It's been lovely to chat withyou.
Likewise, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks, Claire.
Sam Sethi (14:36):
There you go.
Uh Norma Jean Belenky,affectionately known as NJ to
her friends.
Now, that's um a really goodpodcast.
I think they're going to coversome really interesting topics.
They've had some great guestson so far as well.
Noted that you and I have notbeen invited yet, but that's all
right.
Subtle hint.
(14:56):
Now, there is a link to PodBizin our show notes, and new
episodes are highlighted on thehomepage at TrueFans.
So the podcast is easy for youto find there.
Claire Waite Brown (15:06):
Absolutely.
And if you'd like to exploreanything that NJ talked about in
that interview, please do leaveus a comment or a super
comment, which is super easy todo in TrueFans, by clicking on
the speech bubble icon or thetab called comments under the
icons, and we can strike up aconversation.
Sam Sethi (15:27):
While you're there, if you're an independent podcast
creator, why not put yourselfforward to be a future guest on
this show, Creators fromTrueFans?
Again by leaving us a commentin the TrueFans app.
Claire Waite Brown (15:38):
Fabulous.
If you'd like to chat with usabout your independent podcast
or your music, send a comment orsuper comment in TrueFans to
any creators episode by clickingon the speech bubble icon or on
the comments tab.
Sam Sethi (15:54):
Claire, it's question time.
What do you want to ask me thisweek?
Claire Waite Brown (15:58):
Well, fittingly, since NJ's show is
all about monetizing, I knowthat you have been working on
something rather nifty thatmakes it easier for creators who
have claimed their shows onTrueFans to see the monetary
transactions their shows havereceived.
How does this work and how docreators find it?
Sam Sethi (16:20):
Okay, so one of the problems is yes, we give you a
wallet, and yes, you can havetransactions and people can pay
you as well.
But actually finding all of thepayments in and out of your
wallet was proving difficult.
It was there if you had a lookaround the activities, it was
there somewhere.
So we created a wallet tab inthe creator's dashboard, and
(16:41):
that shows you all the money iscoming in and out of your
wallet, a bit like a ledger.
So you can see the transaction.
Was it for a comment?
Was it for play?
Was it for sharing?
Did somebody give you money?
Or did you give money back to afan because you wanted to pay
them?
So it's a good way for you toquickly see money's in and out
of your wallet.
Claire Waite Brown (17:01):
Yeah, it's really handy.
What about listeners who don'thave their own podcasts?
How do they see what they'vepaid to which shows and how?
Sam Sethi (17:12):
Yeah, again, we could have done that through the My
Activity in your Profile, butyou had to work it out.
So we decided that what wouldbe super easy to do is to create
another tab in your profilecall wallet, and in there you
can see what you've earned, whatyou've paid out to podcasters,
and equally, as a super fan,what you may have earned as
well.
Claire Waite Brown (17:31):
When you say a listener has earned, how do
listeners who don't have showsearn into their wallet?
Sam Sethi (17:39):
So there's a couple of ways.
When you first join TrueFans,you can earn money into your
wallet by completing tasks.
Those tasks are there to learnand see how to best use
TrueFans.
So for example, when you makeyour first comment, you'll get
paid.
When you share your firstpodcast, when you become a fan,
they're not massive amounts, butthey will be an amount that you
(17:59):
earn.
Now, equally, if you are adedicated follower of a
particular show, so you're thesuper fan, then you can earn
money from any other moniesbeing uh paid to that creator or
podcaster.
So as an example, Claire, yourshow, Creativity Found, there
will be a superfan.
That superfan will earn 1% ofyour SATS.
(18:20):
Now, in the creator'sdashboard, you can go and remove
that 1% or you can increasethat amount to your superfan.
But at the moment, thedefault's set to 1%.
So as a super fan, you canearn.
As a normal fan, you can earnwhen you're on board.
And sometimes creators will payyou to listen to their trailer
as well.
(18:41):
So there are lots of differentways in the system to earn money
as well as to pay creators thatyou like.
Claire Waite Brown (18:47):
And we wanted to encourage everyone to
learn a bit more about truefans.
So we also give them some satsfor listening to Fanzone, don't
we?
Sam Sethi (18:59):
We give them money for listening to Fanzone.
And as you asked me a couple ofweeks back, we also pay you if
you leave a comment now on thisshow.
Oh, brilliant.
It's all you know what, let'sencourage people to do it.
And the best way sometimes iswith micro payments.
So we will give you a smallmicro payment if you leave us a
comment.
You can give us a super commentas well, which pays us, but we
(19:21):
will pay you a small amount backof that.
Claire Waite Brown (19:23):
Brilliant.
So I highly encourage everybodyto test that out for us by um
leaving us a comment and uhseeing if you get some sats
back.
That's really encouraging.
Sam Sethi (19:34):
Claire, let's move on to the little look around the
world, see what's interestingfor independent podcast
creators.
There is an event calledPodcast a Thon.
It's an event in its fourthyear and it's open for
pre-registration.
What's this one about?
Claire Waite Brown (19:49):
It's actually pronounced podcasthon
because it's French originally,but it's quite difficult for
English people to say.
Yeah, you have to have a littlebit of a French accent on it.
Right.
And it's it's a reallybrilliant initiative.
I took part in it last year.
It started off French language,it is now French language and
English language, and I believethis year uh Spanish speaking as
(20:13):
well.
So you decide to dedicate oneepisode of your podcast to a
charity.
You can do that however youwish.
You can encourage donations tothat, but you don't have to.
And what happens is between aparticular time in March, you
say, I'm going to put out myepisode, it's going to be on
this charity.
And then that gets featured onthe podcast on website, and that
(20:37):
gets promoted there.
And it's just a nice way forall these podcasts to share the
love and give some promotion forcharities of their choice.
So last year I did do one forCreativity Found and it was a
charity called Dementia ArtsTrust.
So it was very relevant, takingart classes to care homes to
(20:58):
help people suffering fromdementia and their carers.
So that's what Podcasthon isall about.
You can pre-register now.
You don't have to say this iswho I'm going to be doing.
You just have to say, yep, I'minterested simply by visiting
podcasthon.org.
So it'sP-O-D-C-A-S-T-H-O-N.org.
Sam Sethi (21:18):
Nice.
And this is going to go livefrom March the 14th to the 20th,
2026.
And last year, over 1,500podcasters from 40 countries
dedicated one episode to theirnon-profit of choice.
Great initiative.
Now, the other thing that weoften hear podcasters talk about
(21:38):
is can they include music intheir podcasts?
The old adage of, well, if Iinclude music, Spotify will
probably kill me, or YouTubewill take it down, or even other
podcast apps, even TrueFans, ifyou don't have a license.
Now there is a license tag.
We use it in Truefans.
It's part of the podcasting 2.0community.
(21:59):
And the idea is that everypodcast has a copyright with all
rights reserved.
But if you would like people touse, let's say, longer clips
from your show, you reallyshould give a license.
And a license which could be aCreative Commons license, which
says, yes, you can use bits ofmy show, but attribute that back
(22:22):
to me.
So say you got this from myshow, or no, I don't want you to
use any of my show.
Now one of the things thepodcasting 2.0 community did was
look at including music.
And that was through companieslike Wavelake and RSS Blue and
TrueFans got involved.
(22:42):
The idea was independent musicartists would upload their music
and not stick a license to it,because it could then be used
inside your podcast for free.
Except Spotify still probablytake it out.
Now there is a big push now toask for music companies to allow
a licensing globally so thatpodcast hosting companies could
(23:06):
administer it and that companiescould then allow, say Spotify
would then say, Yep, that'sallowed, it's got fair use on
it, maybe, and you might pay asmall license to the originating
artist.
So that's one of the thingsthat's being pushed around at
the moment.
Would you like to include musicin any of your shows, Claire?
Claire Waite Brown (23:24):
I've been banned on places because of the
music, and I've got a license,and then I've had to go back in
and say I've got a license.
You have to go back and proveit once it's been taken away
from you, even though you'vepaid for it.
I don't quite understand, Ihave to say, how this would
work.
Sam Sethi (23:40):
So Adam Curry, the inventor of podcasting, did have
a music show called BoosterGrand Ball, and that used
licensed free music.
Yet Spotify still wouldn'tallow it, probably YouTube
wouldn't allow it, maybe Apple,but all the podcasting 2.0 apps
allowed it.
And the idea was to create likea radio show, which was Adam's
background as a disc jockey.
(24:01):
And it worked withmicropayments, and what happened
was if I was streaming money toAdam's show, when the music
played, it would do somethingcalled wallet switching, which
would shift the money I wasstreaming to the artist, and
then when the music finished itwould shift back to Adam.
And I think live podcasting,once we get it much more adopted
(24:21):
by the host, but also simplerfor creators, will be the new
radio.
Because radio stations aroundthe world are closing and we are
seeing more and more presentersturning to podcasting often,
but what they want to do is goback to doing their soul show or
their music show or theirwhatever it may be.
And so I think this is animportant step where if we can
(24:43):
get a global license for musicinto podcasting, I think it'll
be amazing towards turningpodcasting or live podcasting
into the new radio.
Claire Waite Brown (24:52):
Oh, okay.
So would you mean then if therewas a license tag, then I put
the information in there thatsays I've got this license, and
then the 2.0 apps would readthat and say, We'll play it and
right, okay, I do understand.
Yeah.
Sam Sethi (25:10):
And I think, you know, it doesn't only have to be
live podcasting.
I used to do a a radio show, itwas a soul music show.
And I used to put that out as apodcast.
And often it get taken down,but I try it occasionally.
But that show as a podcastwould have been great, because I
could then recorded it, mixedthe music, put it out, and then
created a classic soul show ofnew music in the genre that I
(25:33):
enjoy.
That can't happen and I don'tdo it anymore because I know
that it would get taken down.
So what's the point?
But if this works, I think wecould open up a really new,
exciting avenue for podcasting.
Claire Waite Brown (25:45):
Brilliant.
Well, I'm sure you will keep usposted, Sam.
Indeed.
Sam Sethi (25:49):
And that's it for this week, Claire.
Our audio is recorded onRiverside, edited by Claire
herself, and we're hosted byBuzzsprout.
Claire Waite Brown (25:57):
You can always support this show by
streaming SATS from yourTrueFans wallet or leaving us a
super comment, or better still,become a monthly supporter of
this show.
Sam Sethi (26:09):
If you'd like to promote your podcast on creators
from TrueFans, you can now sendus a request in your admin
dashboard.
Claire Waite Brown (26:16):
You can find out more about how to use the
features of the TrueFansplatform and earn a little bit
of sats by doing it, asmentioned earlier, by listening
to our sister podcast fanzone.
And if you're keen to learnmore about podcasting 2.0 in
general, check out mycourse-based podcast called
Podcasting 2.0 in Practice,which is a finalist in the
(26:41):
Independent Podcast Awards.
Woohoo!
Sam Sethi (26:44):
Hooray! And we will in the future be talking about a
new awards page on TrueFans.
Brilliant.
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