August 4, 2025 • 44 mins
In 2023, 48-year-old Erin Patterson invited a group of her husband’s family members over, and things took a turn for the worst, and by the worst, we mean murder. Patterson has been convicted of murdering three people and one attempted murder after poisoning them with mushrooms served over a nice dinner. But some questions still remain: How did she go from loving mother to mass murderer, and WHY?Source materials for this episode cannot be listed here due to character limitations. For a full list of sources, please visit crimejunkiepodcast.com/infamous-the-mushroom-cap-murders/.Head over to our Crime Junkie YouTube channel to WATCH this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAz9KeDNtDQDid you know you can listen to this episode ad-free? Join the Fan Club! Visit crimejunkie.app/library/ to view the current membership options and policies.Don’t miss out on all things Crime Junkie!
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Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 6 (01:20):
High crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers and I'm
Britt and today I want to dive into a recent
case that was so big it crossed oceans and grip
crime junkies worldwide because we rarely see a loving mother
who is giving with good family connections and friendships transform
(01:41):
into a mass murderer in the blink of an eye,
taking the lives of the very family members she says
she loves. So was it premeditated murder with a loose motive?
Was it a complete accident? Or was it something in between?
A jury has decided that Headlines sure made up their mind,
(02:02):
but now it is your turn to take the facts
and decide what you think of Aaron Patterson. In early
(02:40):
July twenty twenty three, forty eight year old Aaron Patterson
pulled her in laws aside one Sunday after church. Her
and her husband, Simon had been separated for some time,
but they still maintained a halfway decent relationship for their
two kids, and Aaron made it a point to keep
close with Simon's parents, and she was friendly kind of
on like an acquaintance level with his aunt and uncle too.
(03:01):
I mean, they're literally going to the same church still,
so they're gonna bump into each other, but she seems
to genuinely care about them. So anyways, on this Sunday,
she pulls everyone aside after church and is like, hey,
I would like to have you guys over in a
couple of weeks for lunch to discuss something important, and
she seemed to imply that it was maybe something related
(03:23):
to like some health issues, so being supportive, they all
agree either like then or over the next few weeks,
and they agree on a date July twenty ninth, twenty
twenty three. It would be Aaron, her estranged husband, Simon,
Simon's parents, Gail and Down, and then Simon's aunt and uncle,
Heather and Ian.
Speaker 7 (03:41):
And the aunt and uncle are on mom's side or
dad's side.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
His mom, so actually Gail and Heather are sisters. Okay,
so this group is all set for lunch, but the
night before this lunch is set to happen, Simon actually
texts Aaron and Bales. He says it's just too uncomfortable
for him to come because tensions had kind of been high.
Recently over things like child support finances, and he's like, basically,
(04:06):
he just didn't have it in them to pretend like
a nice family lunch wouldn't be awkward for him.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Even though like everyone else coming is from his side
of the family.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Yeah, he just didn't want to do it, but he said,
you know what, I'll be happy to talk about your
health issues or whatever the implications of that another time,
if you want to do it over the phone.
Speaker 8 (04:24):
Now.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
That blowoff over text was clearly frustrating to Aaron, because
she replied in the text threat and I actually have
her exact reply. I'll have you read it.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
She said, that's really disappointing. I've spent many hours this
week preparing for lunch tomorrow, which has been exhausting in
light of the issues I'm facing, and spent a small
fortune on beefy file at to make beef Wellington's because
I wanted it to be a special meal, as I
may not be able to host a lunch like this
again for some time. It's important to me that you're
all there tomorrow and that I can have the conversations
(04:55):
that I need to have. I hope you'll change your mind.
Your parents and Heather and Ian are coming at twelve thirty.
I hope to see you there.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Status read okay, but Simon does not come to the lunch.
She really had spent a long time making individual beef
Wellington dish.
Speaker 7 (05:12):
I've done, like have you really? Yeah, and it is
incredibly like time and work sensitive, like, yeah, it's a
lot of work.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
She put in a lot of work.
Speaker 9 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
So she's got these individual ones dished out with sides
on mismatched plates, all of which is prayed over before
they dig in. And after they finished eating, Aaron got
to the reason why they're all there. She said that
she had cancer, and really she wanted their advice on
how to tell their kids, who were just like elementary
(05:41):
and middle school ages at this time. She's got two
of them. And I don't know how everyone reacted in
that moment, but I imagine they were surprised because this
would have been a first time diagnosis for Aaron. And
as she's like telling them about this cancer diagnosis, her
son was a riding home and so like not wanting
him to hear what they were all discussing, everyone kind
(06:02):
of gathers together and they encourage her, Listen, you should
just be upfront with the kids, tell them the truth.
And then Ian, having been and who still was a
pastor at the church, he suggests that they all pray together,
pray for Aaron, pray for the kids. But their prayers
(06:22):
to protect and save her were misdirected because little did
everyone at the table know they should have been praying
to God to save them. It didn't happen all at once. Gail, Don, Heather,
and Ian go to their respective homes, but sometime over
the next twelve hours or so, it hits them all
(06:43):
the same. In the middle of the night, they are
each struck with what feels like the effects of food poisoning,
and we're talking diarrhea, vomiting, and it is bad. I
think people start calling one another like obviously you see
your partners having the same symptoms you are. You want
to call the other people there, like are you sick?
And Simon eventually gets called because his parents are going
(07:04):
to the hospital by ambulance, and so he ends up
driving his aunt and uncle to a nearby hospital himself.
By the twenty four hour mark, all four guests who've
attended the lunch were admitted to the hospital and not
doing well. Doctors were scrambling to figure out what was
going on, but clearly there was a connection, right, And
it didn't take Dick van Dyke to triangulate that the
(07:26):
lunch they were all at together is kind of the
nexus of their illness. Which did you like how I
put a diagnosis murder reference in there? Like where am
I Jerry Good? I'm show fans.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
Well and I'm sure they realize, like one person is
suspiciously absent from the hospital now the.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
Chef herself, yes, but no one is jumping to sinister conclusions,
at least not yet. I think they're more concerned that
she hasn't come in.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
Now.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Simon's there at the hospital with his family, and he's
spoken to Aaron on the phone and over text, and
she's saying that she's sick too, but she doesn't want
to come to the hot hospital because she says she's
having regular bouts of diarrhea and she didn't think she'd
be able to do the full ride without having an accident, basically,
But she does eventually go to the hospital to get
checked out. Now she walks in on her own on
(08:14):
day two. She is clearly doing way better than the others,
but they still want to admit her run some tests
because they're pretty sure they've narrowed it down to the
mushrooms from the beef Wellington being the problem. Everyone's symptoms
or whatever tests they've done have them pretty convinced that
they've all eaten a specific type of mushroom called a
death cap mushroom, which, as the name suggests, is not
(08:38):
something to take life.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
They start grilling her about where she got the mushrooms,
because my god, if these were sold at a store,
like a lot of people are about to be in
trouble really quick and they have to get ahead of this.
According to the Guardian, she told the hospital staff quote
half we're fresh from Woolworth's and the other half were
dried mushrooms bought from an Asian grin in the Melbourne
(09:01):
suburb of Oakley or glen Waverley end quote.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Oh that's the worst case scenario exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And for some reason this woman doesn't seem nearly as
concerned as the hospital staff do, because when the doctor
goes away for a bit to check on other patients,
Aaron Bales.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Are you an absolutely huge fonter or a zoom inner?
Perhaps your RM stretched out like a zombie when holding
a newspaper or a squint so tightly at the menu,
the waiter thinks you're sleeping at Specsavers. We get it.
You don't want to admit it's probably time to become
a glasses wearer. Or that's okay, We're ready to see you.
(09:43):
Whenever you're ready to see properly, book an eye test
at Specsavers dot Ie so you can see clearer er. Okay,
we'll stop with the earth now.
Speaker 6 (09:53):
My name's Chad Powers.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Streaming on Disney Plus. Glen Powell is Chad Powers. Who
is that guy? He's doing a missus doagfire.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
There was one how of a performance?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But with football.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I like you Powers that you are a puzzle.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carry
you to the spot you were born. So this morning,
Prying Shot Powers, a new original series exclusively on Disney
Plus eighteen plus subscription required. Decency's apply.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
When the doctor realizes Aaron left the hospital after not
being there long, it is so concerning to him that
he calls the Triple zero emergency line for police.
Speaker 9 (10:35):
Hello, I want addressing at the police. So this is
doctor Chris Webster calling from lean Gath Hospital, and I have.
Speaker 8 (10:45):
A concern regarding a patient that presented here earlier but
has left the building and is potentially exposed to a.
Speaker 9 (10:55):
Faithal toxin from mushroom poison.
Speaker 10 (10:59):
And I've tried several times to get hold of her
on her mobile phone.
Speaker 9 (11:03):
What's her name? So? The last name is Patterson P
A T. T E R S O N. First name
Aaron E. R. I M. When did she present at
hospital at eight five today mushroom poisoning? You said, yeah,
(11:24):
So there were five people that ate a meal on
Saturday and two of them are intensive care at dand
in On Hospital to have just been transferred from lang
at the hospital to dand in On Hospital, and Aaron
presented this morning with symptoms of poisoning. And what happened
when she presented She's got the move, you know. There
(11:47):
was time for the nurse to begin observations and I
was managing the other critically unwell patient, so I had
a brief chatter about where the mushrooms were obtained.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
And after that, while I was attending the other patients
to NURST informed that she had distarted herself against medical advice.
So she left at ten persons only here for five minutes,
And just to clorify, you said there were four other
people who hate the same meal.
Speaker 9 (12:17):
Is that correct? Yeah, so the meal was conserved by
five people and four of those people are now hospitalized.
Speaker 7 (12:28):
Is he just worried about her health or is he
calling the police like on her, Like he thinks she's
to blame and she's like on the run.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
So he's really careful with his wording. At the time,
it was very much just like, these are the facts
you need to find this woman. But dude was super
clear in the aftermath of things. I mean, he was
very suspicious of Aaron because along with her reluctance to
stay at the hospital and get checked out, he's like,
she didn't even look sick. I mean, he is watching
(12:58):
these other four people who are literally on death's doorstep,
and this woman Waltz is in looking perfectly fine. Now,
luckily police didn't have to go to her house and
like drag her back to the hospital. She returned voluntarily.
But when she came back, she told the doctor something
really concerning. It wasn't just five people who had eaten
the beef Wellington. She had fed the leftovers to her kids. Too. Now,
(13:22):
this only sends the medical professionals into more of a panic.
They're like, well, you need to go home and get
those kids here like now. But she doesn't want to.
She's like, oh, no, no, no, they're fine. They're not sick
at all. I like scraped out the mushrooms before I
gave them the food, like, and she's like, I feel
like if I because they weren't at home, they were
at school, I feel like if I go scoop them
up out of school and bring them to the hospital,
(13:44):
they're gonna be really scared.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
Okay, so scare of them? Like how are we even
having this conversation?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
It is literally what the doctor says. Actually, I think
the doctor is more brash. He is like, they can
be scared and alive or dead, Like what are we
doing here? Yeah, long story short, the kids do come
to the hospital, they get checked out, She gets checked out,
and they're all completely fine.
Speaker 7 (14:09):
Like fine, like there's nothing in their system.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Blood tests show no metabolic acidoses, and that is what
they were looking for in the others who are sick,
like Gail down, Heather, and Ian who all by the way,
are in progressively worse shape.
Speaker 7 (14:26):
So what's Aaron's story at this point, Like is she
trying to say it wasn't the Wellingtons or what?
Speaker 6 (14:33):
No, it was fully the Wellington's, all right, Like they
actually go and get the leftovers from her trash test
the mushrooms and they are now one hundred percent suory.
Those were death cap mushrooms. But your question is a
pointed one. What is her story? Yeah, because over the
coming week, Gail and Don and Heather each pass away
(14:54):
from altered liver function and multiple organ failure. Only Ian
survives after weeks in the ICU and some very close calls.
But the thing is, try as they might, for the
life of them, they can't seem to find that Asian
food store in Melbourne where she said she bought dried
mushrooms from. And so much of her story just isn't
(15:17):
making sense to them. So was this murder or was
this a tragic accident? And in the wake of this
tragedy it depends on who you ask erin you ask
Aarin Well, and they do. Even before Don had passed away,
they were pulling her in to talk to police. And
it was actually in an interview with them that she
(15:40):
learned of Gail and Heather's passing, and she told police
she had no idea what was going on, but she
has been trying to be as helpful as possible, providing
staff with as much information as possible to get to
the bottom.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
Of this, seeming like maybe the name of the Asian
grocery store that no one can find.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
Ideally that would be nice, but no, she doesn't remember.
So police are like, listen, let's just start at the beginning.
Why did you invite them all over for this lunch
that ended up killing them? And let me just tell
you what she said, like verbatim, she said, quote, I
loved them a lot. They've always been really good to me,
and they always said to me they'd support me with
(16:19):
love and emotional support even though Simon and I were separated,
and I really appreciated that because both my parents are
gone end quote.
Speaker 7 (16:27):
And to tell them about her cancer.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
What cancer? She doesn't have cancer, I'm sorry?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What?
Speaker 8 (16:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Now, I don't know if they even knew about the
ruse that she used to get everyone over there in
that moment, because it's a little unclear to me if Gail, Heather,
or Don or even Ian were in a position to
tell police about that before they got like seriously ill,
but Ian definitely told them about it after he recovered
and Nope, no record of cancer. So let's call that
(16:59):
question one Lie one. Question two. Do you own a dehydrator?
And have you ever forged for mushrooms in the past,
because no way were these death cap mushrooms bought from
a store. And she says nope, but you know, you
might find a manual for a dehydrator at my house somewhere.
You might. I don't know Aaron lie too, but she's
(17:21):
trying to get ahead of them, I think, because they
had or eventually will search her home and she knew
that they were going to be looking at her.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
Okay, So like, why does she have a dehydrator?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Had?
Speaker 10 (17:32):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Because police end up learning later that while everyone was
in the hospital, she went and disposed of the dehydrator mm,
and she did something else really damning to cover her tracks.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Are you an absolutely huge fonter or a zoom inner
perhaps your an arm stretched out like a zombie when
holding a newspaper, or a squint so tightly at the menu,
the ways or things you're sleeping at specsavers. We get it.
You don't want to admit it's probably time to become
a glasses wearer, or that's okay, We're ready to see you.
(18:08):
Whenever you're ready to see properly, book an eye test
at Specsavers dot I E so you can see clearer er. Okay,
we'll stop with the earth now.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Her name's Chad Powers, streaming on Disney Plus. Glenn Powell
is Chad Powers?
Speaker 9 (18:24):
Is that guy?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
He's doing a Missus doubtfire.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
There was one hell of a performance. But with football,
how I keep Powers? Than you are a puzzle?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carry
you to this fuck You were born for this morment
cry Chad Powers, a new original series exclusively on Disney
Plus eighteen plus subscription required. Decency's apply.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Let me just back up and break down for you
the case that the prosecution ends up making against Aaron
because what she did, how she tried to lie about
it and then cover her own tracks, the way she
was caught lying on the stand, it is bonkers. And
I think it's easier if I just kind of fast
forward and tell you everything they find over the course
of their investigation. So, like I said, no cancer, not then,
(19:13):
not ever. They realized that the hell. Ruse had started
even before she invited everyone to lunch. So for a
while she had been telling people about a lump in
her elbow and that she was maybe going to be
going to the hospital having a biopsy or some tests
or whatever. This was shortly before even the lunch invite.
Oh so there was kind of a long game.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
She was like planting the seas.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Yeah, except there was no lump in her elbow, There
was no biopsy, there were no scans, nada. All a
ruse to get people to her house for lunch. I
told you she got rid of the dehydrator. Now, it's
not like she could say, oh, you know, it was
so old, I tossed it whenever ago, totally unrelated to this.
That thing was purchased on April twenty eighth, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (19:58):
Oh so brand new.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
Yeah, And they find CCTV footage of her going to
a dump to get rid of this thing on August second,
twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Oh so like wit when she's in hot water.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yes, And when it's tested they find traces of death
cap mushrooms. So we are now one hundred percent sure
that she didn't buy dried mushrooms from anyone, she dried them.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Which also means then she picked them.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Correct line number three, She absolutely did forge for mushrooms,
and we know this because of digital data that they
collected from her devices like tracking. Yes, so they did
a search of Aaron's home pretty early on and they
collected phones, computers, tablets, everything. According to an article by
the Australian Broadcast Company, it looks like starting in May
(20:50):
twenty twenty two, so the year before all this, all
of a sudden, Aaron started like taking a keen interest
in mushroom foraging based on her search history. So it's
not like they have proved then that she's like out
there picking shrooms. But she started visiting a site called
eye Naturalists, where quote users share observations from nature to
(21:11):
a community map end quote like ooh saw this here,
ohhh saw this rare or weird thing over here. And
by the way, death cap mushrooms aren't something that is
just around everywhere like in this area of Australia. They're
actually like pretty rare specifically in this area. Now, I
haven't seen anyone report like that. She was on this
(21:31):
site logging anything. She seems from what I can tell,
just to be an observer starting at least in May
twenty twenty two. Now fast forward nearly a year later,
on April eighteenth, twenty twenty three, a retired pharmacist logs
the location of death cap mushrooms in a town called Locke,
and then on May twenty first, twenty twenty three, in
(21:51):
a different town called Autrim, someone else logs a location
where they saw death cat mushrooms. Now literally within like
the first day of when one of those like pops up,
Aaron had gone to the site and she spent about
an hour on it, so it is very likely that
she saw it. And then, according to the BBC quote,
her mobile phone location data appeared to show her traveling
(22:15):
to both areas and purchasing the infamous food dehydrator on
her way home from one of those trips. End quote.
But here is the clincher and the thing that I
was saying, I think is so damning. They don't even
have all of her mobile phone data to work with.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
What do you mean?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
So they end up finding out that this woman had
three different phones, two Samsung phones and a Nokia. Now
they only really talk in detail about the two Samsung phones,
which they end up referring to as like phone A
and Phone B. Phone A is the one that they
know she used for years before all of this, right,
so her phone, right, this is the phone that they
(22:54):
can also see in the CCTV footage when she goes
to the hospital initially, so they know she still uses
it around the time of all of this. But when
they end up searching her home, when they end up
collecting her devices, she gives them phone B. What happened
to Phone A? Who the heck knows, but they can
see that some shady stuff happened with the phones. While
(23:18):
detectives were in her house doing the search on August fifth,
Phone B had been factory reset and the SIM card
in Phone A was removed and then put into a
Nokia phone.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
Is she not in the house during the search, Oh?
Speaker 6 (23:33):
No, she is. This is what's so wild. She is
there with them. And normally if they're like searching your property, right, like,
they're obviously suspicious of her by this point, they like
make you stay by them. Well, she told one of
the detectives that she needed some privacy to call her lawyer,
so they let her go into a room by herself
for a moment. And this they believe, according to the
data logues, is when some of this stuff starts happening.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
I mean, how do you even explain that away?
Speaker 6 (23:58):
I like everything they've got again her, I think it's
gonna be hard. Yeah. And one of the other things
that they have against her are some chat logs with
a group that she has on Facebook, like the small
group of friends. Because before she killed her family, guess
what this woman was a part of online.
Speaker 7 (24:14):
I truly cannot even begin to wonder.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
A true crime Facebook community which needs don't be crime drunk.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's not.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
I mean, again, don't give us a bad name eron,
but like it's uh, they don't ever name it as
far as I can tell. But I actually had our
team check not crime junkie as far as I know. Anyways,
it's not like she had just joined this group. She
was part of this group a while back. And really
what ended up happening is kind of like so many
of our crime junkie she ends up bonding with kind
of a group of people who move their chat outside
of the group, and it it really isn't even about
(24:45):
true crime, right, It's not like they're it's damming and
they're talking about ways to kill people or anything like it.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
Sounds like they're on the little community.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Yeah, their friend group. They're talking about life, they're talking
about what they're making for dinner and their kids and.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
Like whatever loaded conversation here.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
And what's so interesting is that police can see in
all these communications that to this group, Aarin shares a
very different version of her relationship with her in laws
than the one that she'd been telling police, right like, Oh,
I love them, They're there for me, like they're wonderful.
This is a different story because you see, even though
(25:18):
things had been amicable between Simon and Aaron since they
separated years before, there was a pretty drastic shift within
the last year, and the prosecution alleges that it was
all really set in motion when the couple each filed
their taxes in twenty twenty two, because on those forms,
(25:38):
Simon's accountant listed him as separated, which they were, but
that was never how they had filed all like all
the years before, and apparently filing this way had some
major like financial implications for Aarin. She was the one
with the money in the relationship, after getting a big
inheritance from her grandmother and then her mother when they
each passed away, and this check of a box had like,
(26:00):
like I said, big implications for her, and it turned
into this big thing because while they had kind of
like figured out how to live their life and share
responsibility or whatever, now Aaron was like, Okay, that's out
the window. I'm filing for child support. We're going to
figure out how to split up the kids, like medical expenses,
school stuff, everything, and so things were just like tense,
(26:22):
right and by July, where before they would at least
like text, have some chatty banter like how are you
doing whatever, Like all signs of a friendship were in
the past. And even though Simon would later tell the
court that from his perspective, she really did seem to
love his parents, she was telling her friends in this group,
in her online group a different thing. She had apparently
(26:45):
tried to go to them to kind of ask them
to like help mediate between her and Simon, basically like
talk some sense into your son so we can figure
this out. But they didn't want to help. They're like,
we are staying out of it. You guys need to
work this out between the two of you. And so
the text that they start pulling in this like group
(27:05):
message or whatever over time does not look favorable for Aaron,
and I can't even have you read some of them.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Okay, so these are some of the texts. Yeah, this family,
I swear to freaking God, nobody bloody listens to me.
At least I know they're a lost cause. So anyway,
I sent a group message to all of them last
night saying how Simon's behavior is unconscionable. I think that's
what she's trying to say. It's kind of spelled weird,
and asking me to withdraw the child' support claim is
(27:31):
wrong and disadvantages me and his children, and how dare
he et cetera. I'm sick of this shit. I want
nothing to do with them. I thought his parents would
want him to do the right thing, but it seems
they're concern about not wanting to feel uncomfortable and not
wanting to get involved in their son's personal matters or
overwriting that. So for them, I don't need anything from
any of these people. His mum was horrified I had
(27:52):
claimed child support. Why isn't she horrified her son is
such a deadbeat and that I had no choice but
to claim point it? Yeah, Yeah, and a completely different
vibe than what like she was telling everybody like did
Simon and his family like, were they feeling any of
this animosity or was it still like we are all.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Amicable like you were saying again, I mean, I think
things were tends with Simon, hence why he didn't want
to go to the lunch and bailed last minute, thank god.
But no, he had no idea that she felt this
way about his parents.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
That's kind of the piece that's missing for me. Like
she hates Simon over the separation and the money stuff,
hates his parents because she thinks that they should be
stepping in or telling their son what to do, or
just didn't raise them right or whatever, Like where did
that an uncle come into this? Like they seem dude,
completely separated from all this.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
This is the part that makes no sense to me,
and the part that no one can seem to make
sense of because they were like acquaintances at best, per
what Ian said on the stand, and there's never anything
suggesting that she went to them for any kind of
support or like asking them to step in, like they said,
this lunch invite felt kind of out of the blue
to them.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
So she's just so angry she wanted to take out
this entire family.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Yes, I don't know, and I mean you teed this
up to.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
Be like was this murder question mark, but I feel
like the answer is pretty obvious. And it also feels
super premeditated. I mean, she was forging and drying mushrooms.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
I know, and like it even feels like she was
trying to lay the groundwork for a defense on some
things long before it even happened, because like police also
found one message in like that same friend group or whatever,
where she basically was saying that she had been hiding
powdered mushrooms in everything to like sneak them to her
kids because they didn't like them. So she was like
(29:39):
making them, drying them, making them powder, mixing them up
and like putting them in brownies or whatever. And according
to the Guardian, this friend group also said that she
sent pictures of a dehydrator in her kitchen that was
apparently exclusively used for mushrooms. And by the way, they
also find that picture, so she got ahead of that one.
But for as claya as this seems, with the phones
(30:02):
and they're like, oh, look, I'm doing something with mushrooms
that is totally not nefarious. This whole thing was also
really sloppy because they also find pictures on a tablet
of hers where there are mushrooms on a scale that
an expert later identifies as like he believes their deathcap mushrooms.
So from start to finish, this woman left a trail
(30:23):
of circumstantial evidence pointing right at her, all the way
back to the fact that she was not sick at all.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
Right, I was thinking about that, Like, did they not,
like they were all at this lunch at her house together,
did they not notice that she just wasn't eating.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
No, she was eating lunch. She cause, like you said,
remember she.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Were individual ones. Yes, she made a special non poison
one for herself.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, and Ian our lone survivor. He says that, like,
looking back, he remembers that she didn't want help, like
serving everything up, and while everyone that was there ate
off of gray plates, hers was orange.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
I know this is like a fool's errand, but I'm
trying to like put myself in her shoes to understand
how she would even think that there's a remote possibility
that she'd get away with this, Like, I mean, I
guess I assume she's counting on that no one would
live to tell the tale. So who cares if she
fake cancer? The weird plate thing, Yeah, pa out like take.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Away those two pieces that we know because ian survive.
There's still like an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence that
is piling up against her, including by the way, speaking
of her not being sick, I forgot to mention this.
Remember how she is telling everyone she has like bad diarrhea.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Yeah, she couldn't like drive because of it, which.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
By the way, I never thought I would say diarrhea
is so much in a single episode. So yeah, so
she's like, this is why I'm not gonna go the
hospital to get checked out.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Whatever.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
Well, apparently that first day her son had some kind
of flying lesson that was scheduled, and she drove him
like ninety minutes away for this thing, and that whole
time she made one stop at a restop or gas
station or something. There is CCTV footage of her going inside,
going to the bathroom, but for nine seconds and then leaving.
Now that's not a smoking gun of anything. It's again
(32:14):
circumstantial evidence, but of yet another lie. But like everything
in this is circumstantial, and the thing is Aaron says
that she can explain all of it, and she tries
to because after she is charged with murder, the trial
becomes one of the biggest spectacles in Australia. Like this year,
(32:35):
while we in the US had Karen Reid Round two,
they were all obsessed with Aaron Patterson's trial. So with
the whole world watching, Aaron Patterson takes the stand for
eight days in her own defense. All right, where to begin,
I'm just kinda kind of go down the punch list, Okay,
(32:55):
So she says that she made individual Wellington's not big
one because when she went to the store, they just
didn't have like the big cut that she needed. Now,
why not go to the butcher and get the thing
that you need so you don't have to change the
whole recipe? And she's like, I don't know, mad was
easier this way? Okay, fine, and she says, yes, the
plates were different, but she didn't have a complete set
(33:18):
of matching plates, which is actually backed up by other
people who testified too. Okay, but like, how did you
not get sick? And here is where we got a
brand new confession of sorts. For the very first time,
she said that she has had body image issues since
(33:39):
she was very young, and for much of her life
she would binge, eat and then purge. And she said
on that day she ate her lunch. She said she
didn't eat the whole Wellington, like a quarter or a
half of it or whatever, but then she ate almost
an entire cake that one of the guests brought, and then,
feeling ill from overeating, she went to the back room
(34:00):
and threw up. And that's probably why she didn't get sick.
Speaker 10 (34:05):
Now.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
They asked her on the stand, like, did you barf
for the beef Wellington up, like that's the thing, and
she's like, yeah, probably maybe, I don't know. There's no
way to be sure, but she still does maintain that
she was mildly sick. Now when they confront her with
the video showing this long drive she makes but where
she doesn't even go to the bathroom long enough to
wash her hands, much less anything else, she says that
she went in there to throw away tissues because she
(34:27):
actually couldn't hold it earlier, had to stop on the
side of the road or something to relieve herself, and
so she had like tissues and a dog bag or
something that she cleaned herself up with and like threw
it away. That's why she was in there so like
for such a short time. But her son, who is
in the car ride with her, cannot verify this.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Okay, what about the whole reason for this lunch to
begin with. It's like, what's the explanation for the fake cancer?
You can't really explain that conversation away.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
She tried, so and this like this is where like
there ends up being this huge Harry Mason got your
moment in court. I know my sho diagnosed murder. Pira Maason,
I'm like killing Core's murder, she wrote. So in court,
they're asking her about this and she's like, no, I
didn't have cancer. But this goes back to her body
image issue. She said that she wanted to have gastric
(35:18):
bypass surgery, but she was too embarrassed to tell people that.
But she knew that she was gonna need the families
like help and support with the kids postops, So she
made up the whole cancer story because she's like, basically like,
I'm gonna have surgery either way. I was just telling
this other thing so because I didn't want to tell
them what I was really having like done so on
the stand, They're like, okay, gastric bypass surgery, cool? Was
(35:40):
it booked? Yes?
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Where so she tells them, and she gets caught on
the stand lying because that place didn't even offer gastric
bypass surgery. What I know, I don't like, what are
you thinking?
Speaker 7 (35:57):
Yeah, oh my god, Okay, that doesn't ex anything that's wild.
But there's more here, like disposing of evidence like the phones,
the dehydrator.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Basically, she says at certain points when she realized that
people were suspicious of her or like trying to blame her,
she panicked and just did things that are dumb and
make her look guilty, like the whole dehydrator thing. She
says she tossed that because her husband was accusing her
in the hospital of killing his parents, which he says
is untrue. He's like, I never accused her of that.
(36:28):
Like the early days and then the phone stuff. I mean,
she has like a number of weird reasons that were
all kind of different in the time leading up to trial,
but like all in all, it was it boiled down
to basically her like panicking when she knew police were
looking seriously at her. Now, as for where the mushrooms
(36:48):
came from whereas before she always told police she never
forged mushrooms and she bought those dried mushrooms from an
Asian grocer. Now she admits that she did get in
to forging during lockdown, and she's always loved eating mushrooms,
and she said her kids had even seen her forged
mushrooms before. By the way, they deny this, And she
(37:10):
adds that while she does forage, she definitely didn't go
foraging in that one town where the death caps were
spotted after they were posted online.
Speaker 7 (37:20):
Even though I would say even though she went there
right after it was posted.
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Her phone location suggests she was in that area.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
Like, knowing what she's accused of, I feel like I
shouldn't be shocked that she's bringing the kids into this
so much, But I still kind of am, like she's
really relying on them a lot for like they saw
me here, they can verify that we did this. Like,
dragging them into this feels like very low in a
way that is even shocking for this.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Case, I know, And like, I mean, really how lucky
for them that they still have their father, But like
I can't imagine what this does to a person especially
like a minor, a kid trying to reconcile that your
mom would do something like this, and the fact that
she would like toss you out there as a part
of a lie, expecting you to what back her up,
(38:08):
while you also know that she planned for your dad
to be at that lunch. Yeah, Like, I don't know
what their relationship with their mom was like before all this,
but I haven't heard any wild stories. I mean, part
of what I think captivated a nation in the world
was you don't often see someone who is described as
a loving mother turn into a mass murderer. Like do
(38:28):
you then have to go back and rewrite your whole
history with someone?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
I would say, for me, it feels like you'd have
to like question so many of your interactions.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Like was it always an act or like just recently
and like one of the things that came out in
court that I actually found really interesting was around Aaron's
faith or black thereof. So early on in her life
she had been an atheist, and she said that she
tried convincing Simon, who was a Christian, to be atheist too,
But in two thousand and five, when they were dating,
(38:56):
he took her to of all places Ian's church.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
Ian uncle only survivor Ian.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
Remember, he is a pastor like was still is. But
he took her to a service, and she said that
she at this service had a spiritual experience and became
a Christian herself then and there. But the prosecution put
forward some messages or like actually more like emojis she
sent that made it appear that she mocked the family's
(39:24):
religious beliefs to other people, and her friend grew purported
that she told them she was still an atheist and
she thought Simon's religious background was difficult. But on the
stand she remains adamant that she is a Christian.
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Aaron, thou shalt not lie. It's in like the top ten.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Yeah, And it was clear to the jury that's what
she had done, over and over again. Lie Lie, Lie,
to police, to her family, right there, to the jurors,
And after nine weeks of trial and six days of deliberation,
on July seventh, twenty twenty five, a jury in the
Supreme Court of Victoria convicted her of three counts of
(40:05):
murder and one count of attempted murder. So what's gonna
happen next? She basically is gonna have twenty eight days
from the time of sentencing to appeal her conviction, her sentence,
and as of this recording, that sentencing hasn't happened yet,
but usually they say they do that within about a month,
So like when this episode comes out, right now, right now, right,
(40:25):
So if you follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast,
I'll be posting an update to let you know when
that happens, which will put a clock on the appeal.
Speaker 7 (40:33):
And I would be shocked if she didn't appeal.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Same listen, I am. I think I'm still totally consumed
with trying to understand why, especially why for Ian and Heather,
this aunt and uncle that you were barely close with,
one of whom was a pastor, your pastor. I mean,
it's part of the reason why I found like the
whole talk of religion so interesting, even though it wasn't
(40:57):
a core part of the trial, Like it's not real evidence,
but I wonder if there's something there, like I just
can't put my finger on it. And in court, by
the way, she said like, oh yes, I said these things,
but I was frustrated and you're like pulling out like
the worst moments, like right, yeah, you don't want God,
(41:18):
like God forbid, I'm everyone trial, like I don't want
anyone going the right text messages, But I don't know,
like is that real? Like is this I think we
have to point to them so much or why people
do is because like without those nothing makes it like has.
Speaker 7 (41:30):
To you have to have them to like complete painting
the picture right.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
But I'm not sure you can make sense of someone
who was willing to do what Aaron did to her kids,
to Simon and to her in laws and listen, if
she was honest about her beliefs, maybe she'll have a
come to Jesus and her family if no one else
will get whatever answers they need to to move forward.
(42:07):
You can find all the source material for this episode
on our website, Crime Junkie podcast dot com, and you.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Can follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.
Speaker 11 (42:15):
We'll be back next week with the brand new episode.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. I think Chuck
would approve.
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Speaker 6 (01:20):
High crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers and I'm
Britt and today I want to dive into a recent
case that was so big it crossed oceans and grip
crime junkies worldwide because we rarely see a loving mother
who is giving with good family connections and friendships transform
(01:41):
into a mass murderer in the blink of an eye,
taking the lives of the very family members she says
she loves. So was it premeditated murder with a loose motive?
Was it a complete accident? Or was it something in between?
A jury has decided that Headlines sure made up their mind,
(02:02):
but now it is your turn to take the facts
and decide what you think of Aaron Patterson. In early
(02:40):
July twenty twenty three, forty eight year old Aaron Patterson
pulled her in laws aside one Sunday after church. Her
and her husband, Simon had been separated for some time,
but they still maintained a halfway decent relationship for their
two kids, and Aaron made it a point to keep
close with Simon's parents, and she was friendly kind of
on like an acquaintance level with his aunt and uncle too.
(03:01):
I mean, they're literally going to the same church still,
so they're gonna bump into each other, but she seems
to genuinely care about them. So anyways, on this Sunday,
she pulls everyone aside after church and is like, hey,
I would like to have you guys over in a
couple of weeks for lunch to discuss something important, and
she seemed to imply that it was maybe something related
(03:23):
to like some health issues, so being supportive, they all
agree either like then or over the next few weeks,
and they agree on a date July twenty ninth, twenty
twenty three. It would be Aaron, her estranged husband, Simon,
Simon's parents, Gail and Down, and then Simon's aunt and uncle,
Heather and Ian.
Speaker 7 (03:41):
And the aunt and uncle are on mom's side or
dad's side.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
His mom, so actually Gail and Heather are sisters. Okay,
so this group is all set for lunch, but the
night before this lunch is set to happen, Simon actually
texts Aaron and Bales. He says it's just too uncomfortable
for him to come because tensions had kind of been high.
Recently over things like child support finances, and he's like, basically,
(04:06):
he just didn't have it in them to pretend like
a nice family lunch wouldn't be awkward for him.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Even though like everyone else coming is from his side
of the family.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Yeah, he just didn't want to do it, but he said,
you know what, I'll be happy to talk about your
health issues or whatever the implications of that another time,
if you want to do it over the phone.
Speaker 8 (04:24):
Now.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
That blowoff over text was clearly frustrating to Aaron, because
she replied in the text threat and I actually have
her exact reply. I'll have you read it.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
She said, that's really disappointing. I've spent many hours this
week preparing for lunch tomorrow, which has been exhausting in
light of the issues I'm facing, and spent a small
fortune on beefy file at to make beef Wellington's because
I wanted it to be a special meal, as I
may not be able to host a lunch like this
again for some time. It's important to me that you're
all there tomorrow and that I can have the conversations
(04:55):
that I need to have. I hope you'll change your mind.
Your parents and Heather and Ian are coming at twelve thirty.
I hope to see you there.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Status read okay, but Simon does not come to the lunch.
She really had spent a long time making individual beef
Wellington dish.
Speaker 7 (05:12):
I've done, like have you really? Yeah, and it is
incredibly like time and work sensitive, like, yeah, it's a
lot of work.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
She put in a lot of work.
Speaker 9 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
So she's got these individual ones dished out with sides
on mismatched plates, all of which is prayed over before
they dig in. And after they finished eating, Aaron got
to the reason why they're all there. She said that
she had cancer, and really she wanted their advice on
how to tell their kids, who were just like elementary
(05:41):
and middle school ages at this time. She's got two
of them. And I don't know how everyone reacted in
that moment, but I imagine they were surprised because this
would have been a first time diagnosis for Aaron. And
as she's like telling them about this cancer diagnosis, her
son was a riding home and so like not wanting
him to hear what they were all discussing, everyone kind
(06:02):
of gathers together and they encourage her, Listen, you should
just be upfront with the kids, tell them the truth.
And then Ian, having been and who still was a
pastor at the church, he suggests that they all pray together,
pray for Aaron, pray for the kids. But their prayers
(06:22):
to protect and save her were misdirected because little did
everyone at the table know they should have been praying
to God to save them. It didn't happen all at once. Gail, Don, Heather,
and Ian go to their respective homes, but sometime over
the next twelve hours or so, it hits them all
(06:43):
the same. In the middle of the night, they are
each struck with what feels like the effects of food poisoning,
and we're talking diarrhea, vomiting, and it is bad. I
think people start calling one another like obviously you see
your partners having the same symptoms you are. You want
to call the other people there, like are you sick?
And Simon eventually gets called because his parents are going
(07:04):
to the hospital by ambulance, and so he ends up
driving his aunt and uncle to a nearby hospital himself.
By the twenty four hour mark, all four guests who've
attended the lunch were admitted to the hospital and not
doing well. Doctors were scrambling to figure out what was
going on, but clearly there was a connection, right, And
it didn't take Dick van Dyke to triangulate that the
(07:26):
lunch they were all at together is kind of the
nexus of their illness. Which did you like how I
put a diagnosis murder reference in there? Like where am
I Jerry Good? I'm show fans.
Speaker 7 (07:35):
Well and I'm sure they realize, like one person is
suspiciously absent from the hospital now the.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
Chef herself, yes, but no one is jumping to sinister conclusions,
at least not yet. I think they're more concerned that
she hasn't come in.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
Now.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Simon's there at the hospital with his family, and he's
spoken to Aaron on the phone and over text, and
she's saying that she's sick too, but she doesn't want
to come to the hot hospital because she says she's
having regular bouts of diarrhea and she didn't think she'd
be able to do the full ride without having an accident, basically,
But she does eventually go to the hospital to get
checked out. Now she walks in on her own on
(08:14):
day two. She is clearly doing way better than the others,
but they still want to admit her run some tests
because they're pretty sure they've narrowed it down to the
mushrooms from the beef Wellington being the problem. Everyone's symptoms
or whatever tests they've done have them pretty convinced that
they've all eaten a specific type of mushroom called a
death cap mushroom, which, as the name suggests, is not
(08:38):
something to take life.
Speaker 7 (08:39):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
They start grilling her about where she got the mushrooms,
because my god, if these were sold at a store,
like a lot of people are about to be in
trouble really quick and they have to get ahead of this.
According to the Guardian, she told the hospital staff quote
half we're fresh from Woolworth's and the other half were
dried mushrooms bought from an Asian grin in the Melbourne
(09:01):
suburb of Oakley or glen Waverley end quote.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Oh that's the worst case scenario exactly.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
And for some reason this woman doesn't seem nearly as
concerned as the hospital staff do, because when the doctor
goes away for a bit to check on other patients,
Aaron Bales.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Are you an absolutely huge fonter or a zoom inner?
Perhaps your RM stretched out like a zombie when holding
a newspaper or a squint so tightly at the menu,
the waiter thinks you're sleeping at Specsavers. We get it.
You don't want to admit it's probably time to become
a glasses wearer. Or that's okay, We're ready to see you.
(09:43):
Whenever you're ready to see properly, book an eye test
at Specsavers dot Ie so you can see clearer er. Okay,
we'll stop with the earth now.
Speaker 6 (09:53):
My name's Chad Powers.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Streaming on Disney Plus. Glen Powell is Chad Powers. Who
is that guy? He's doing a missus doagfire.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
There was one how of a performance?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
But with football.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I like you Powers that you are a puzzle.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carry
you to the spot you were born. So this morning,
Prying Shot Powers, a new original series exclusively on Disney
Plus eighteen plus subscription required. Decency's apply.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
When the doctor realizes Aaron left the hospital after not
being there long, it is so concerning to him that
he calls the Triple zero emergency line for police.
Speaker 9 (10:35):
Hello, I want addressing at the police. So this is
doctor Chris Webster calling from lean Gath Hospital, and I have.
Speaker 8 (10:45):
A concern regarding a patient that presented here earlier but
has left the building and is potentially exposed to a.
Speaker 9 (10:55):
Faithal toxin from mushroom poison.
Speaker 10 (10:59):
And I've tried several times to get hold of her
on her mobile phone.
Speaker 9 (11:03):
What's her name? So? The last name is Patterson P
A T. T E R S O N. First name
Aaron E. R. I M. When did she present at
hospital at eight five today mushroom poisoning? You said, yeah,
(11:24):
So there were five people that ate a meal on
Saturday and two of them are intensive care at dand
in On Hospital to have just been transferred from lang
at the hospital to dand in On Hospital, and Aaron
presented this morning with symptoms of poisoning. And what happened
when she presented She's got the move, you know. There
(11:47):
was time for the nurse to begin observations and I
was managing the other critically unwell patient, so I had
a brief chatter about where the mushrooms were obtained.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
And after that, while I was attending the other patients
to NURST informed that she had distarted herself against medical advice.
So she left at ten persons only here for five minutes,
And just to clorify, you said there were four other
people who hate the same meal.
Speaker 9 (12:17):
Is that correct? Yeah, so the meal was conserved by
five people and four of those people are now hospitalized.
Speaker 7 (12:28):
Is he just worried about her health or is he
calling the police like on her, Like he thinks she's
to blame and she's like on the run.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
So he's really careful with his wording. At the time,
it was very much just like, these are the facts
you need to find this woman. But dude was super
clear in the aftermath of things. I mean, he was
very suspicious of Aaron because along with her reluctance to
stay at the hospital and get checked out, he's like,
she didn't even look sick. I mean, he is watching
(12:58):
these other four people who are literally on death's doorstep,
and this woman Waltz is in looking perfectly fine. Now,
luckily police didn't have to go to her house and
like drag her back to the hospital. She returned voluntarily.
But when she came back, she told the doctor something
really concerning. It wasn't just five people who had eaten
the beef Wellington. She had fed the leftovers to her kids. Too. Now,
(13:22):
this only sends the medical professionals into more of a panic.
They're like, well, you need to go home and get
those kids here like now. But she doesn't want to.
She's like, oh, no, no, no, they're fine. They're not sick
at all. I like scraped out the mushrooms before I
gave them the food, like, and she's like, I feel
like if I because they weren't at home, they were
at school, I feel like if I go scoop them
up out of school and bring them to the hospital,
(13:44):
they're gonna be really scared.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
Okay, so scare of them? Like how are we even
having this conversation?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
It is literally what the doctor says. Actually, I think
the doctor is more brash. He is like, they can
be scared and alive or dead, Like what are we
doing here? Yeah, long story short, the kids do come
to the hospital, they get checked out, She gets checked out,
and they're all completely fine.
Speaker 7 (14:09):
Like fine, like there's nothing in their system.
Speaker 6 (14:13):
Blood tests show no metabolic acidoses, and that is what
they were looking for in the others who are sick,
like Gail down, Heather, and Ian who all by the way,
are in progressively worse shape.
Speaker 7 (14:26):
So what's Aaron's story at this point, Like is she
trying to say it wasn't the Wellingtons or what?
Speaker 6 (14:33):
No, it was fully the Wellington's, all right, Like they
actually go and get the leftovers from her trash test
the mushrooms and they are now one hundred percent suory.
Those were death cap mushrooms. But your question is a
pointed one. What is her story? Yeah, because over the
coming week, Gail and Don and Heather each pass away
(14:54):
from altered liver function and multiple organ failure. Only Ian
survives after weeks in the ICU and some very close calls.
But the thing is, try as they might, for the
life of them, they can't seem to find that Asian
food store in Melbourne where she said she bought dried
mushrooms from. And so much of her story just isn't
(15:17):
making sense to them. So was this murder or was
this a tragic accident? And in the wake of this
tragedy it depends on who you ask erin you ask
Aarin Well, and they do. Even before Don had passed away,
they were pulling her in to talk to police. And
it was actually in an interview with them that she
(15:40):
learned of Gail and Heather's passing, and she told police
she had no idea what was going on, but she
has been trying to be as helpful as possible, providing
staff with as much information as possible to get to
the bottom.
Speaker 7 (15:52):
Of this, seeming like maybe the name of the Asian
grocery store that no one can find.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
Ideally that would be nice, but no, she doesn't remember.
So police are like, listen, let's just start at the beginning.
Why did you invite them all over for this lunch
that ended up killing them? And let me just tell
you what she said, like verbatim, she said, quote, I
loved them a lot. They've always been really good to me,
and they always said to me they'd support me with
(16:19):
love and emotional support even though Simon and I were separated,
and I really appreciated that because both my parents are
gone end quote.
Speaker 7 (16:27):
And to tell them about her cancer.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
What cancer? She doesn't have cancer, I'm sorry?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What?
Speaker 8 (16:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (16:36):
Now, I don't know if they even knew about the
ruse that she used to get everyone over there in
that moment, because it's a little unclear to me if Gail, Heather,
or Don or even Ian were in a position to
tell police about that before they got like seriously ill,
but Ian definitely told them about it after he recovered
and Nope, no record of cancer. So let's call that
(16:59):
question one Lie one. Question two. Do you own a dehydrator?
And have you ever forged for mushrooms in the past,
because no way were these death cap mushrooms bought from
a store. And she says nope, but you know, you
might find a manual for a dehydrator at my house somewhere.
You might. I don't know Aaron lie too, but she's
(17:21):
trying to get ahead of them, I think, because they
had or eventually will search her home and she knew
that they were going to be looking at her.
Speaker 7 (17:28):
Okay, So like, why does she have a dehydrator?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Had?
Speaker 10 (17:32):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Because police end up learning later that while everyone was
in the hospital, she went and disposed of the dehydrator mm,
and she did something else really damning to cover her tracks.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Are you an absolutely huge fonter or a zoom inner
perhaps your an arm stretched out like a zombie when
holding a newspaper, or a squint so tightly at the menu,
the ways or things you're sleeping at specsavers. We get it.
You don't want to admit it's probably time to become
a glasses wearer, or that's okay, We're ready to see you.
(18:08):
Whenever you're ready to see properly, book an eye test
at Specsavers dot I E so you can see clearer er. Okay,
we'll stop with the earth now.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Her name's Chad Powers, streaming on Disney Plus. Glenn Powell
is Chad Powers?
Speaker 9 (18:24):
Is that guy?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
He's doing a Missus doubtfire.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
There was one hell of a performance. But with football,
how I keep Powers? Than you are a puzzle?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
A brand new original series. Every choice, every mistake carry
you to this fuck You were born for this morment
cry Chad Powers, a new original series exclusively on Disney
Plus eighteen plus subscription required. Decency's apply.
Speaker 6 (18:49):
Let me just back up and break down for you
the case that the prosecution ends up making against Aaron
because what she did, how she tried to lie about
it and then cover her own tracks, the way she
was caught lying on the stand, it is bonkers. And
I think it's easier if I just kind of fast
forward and tell you everything they find over the course
of their investigation. So, like I said, no cancer, not then,
(19:13):
not ever. They realized that the hell. Ruse had started
even before she invited everyone to lunch. So for a
while she had been telling people about a lump in
her elbow and that she was maybe going to be
going to the hospital having a biopsy or some tests
or whatever. This was shortly before even the lunch invite.
Oh so there was kind of a long game.
Speaker 7 (19:34):
She was like planting the seas.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Yeah, except there was no lump in her elbow, There
was no biopsy, there were no scans, nada. All a
ruse to get people to her house for lunch. I
told you she got rid of the dehydrator. Now, it's
not like she could say, oh, you know, it was
so old, I tossed it whenever ago, totally unrelated to this.
That thing was purchased on April twenty eighth, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (19:58):
Oh so brand new.
Speaker 6 (19:59):
Yeah, And they find CCTV footage of her going to
a dump to get rid of this thing on August second,
twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
Oh so like wit when she's in hot water.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yes, And when it's tested they find traces of death
cap mushrooms. So we are now one hundred percent sure
that she didn't buy dried mushrooms from anyone, she dried them.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
Which also means then she picked them.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
Correct line number three, She absolutely did forge for mushrooms,
and we know this because of digital data that they
collected from her devices like tracking. Yes, so they did
a search of Aaron's home pretty early on and they
collected phones, computers, tablets, everything. According to an article by
the Australian Broadcast Company, it looks like starting in May
(20:50):
twenty twenty two, so the year before all this, all
of a sudden, Aaron started like taking a keen interest
in mushroom foraging based on her search history. So it's
not like they have proved then that she's like out
there picking shrooms. But she started visiting a site called
eye Naturalists, where quote users share observations from nature to
(21:11):
a community map end quote like ooh saw this here,
ohhh saw this rare or weird thing over here. And
by the way, death cap mushrooms aren't something that is
just around everywhere like in this area of Australia. They're
actually like pretty rare specifically in this area. Now, I
haven't seen anyone report like that. She was on this
(21:31):
site logging anything. She seems from what I can tell,
just to be an observer starting at least in May
twenty twenty two. Now fast forward nearly a year later,
on April eighteenth, twenty twenty three, a retired pharmacist logs
the location of death cap mushrooms in a town called Locke,
and then on May twenty first, twenty twenty three, in
(21:51):
a different town called Autrim, someone else logs a location
where they saw death cat mushrooms. Now literally within like
the first day of when one of those like pops up,
Aaron had gone to the site and she spent about
an hour on it, so it is very likely that
she saw it. And then, according to the BBC quote,
her mobile phone location data appeared to show her traveling
(22:15):
to both areas and purchasing the infamous food dehydrator on
her way home from one of those trips. End quote.
But here is the clincher and the thing that I
was saying, I think is so damning. They don't even
have all of her mobile phone data to work with.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
What do you mean?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
So they end up finding out that this woman had
three different phones, two Samsung phones and a Nokia. Now
they only really talk in detail about the two Samsung phones,
which they end up referring to as like phone A
and Phone B. Phone A is the one that they
know she used for years before all of this, right,
so her phone, right, this is the phone that they
(22:54):
can also see in the CCTV footage when she goes
to the hospital initially, so they know she still uses
it around the time of all of this. But when
they end up searching her home, when they end up
collecting her devices, she gives them phone B. What happened
to Phone A? Who the heck knows, but they can
see that some shady stuff happened with the phones. While
(23:18):
detectives were in her house doing the search on August fifth,
Phone B had been factory reset and the SIM card
in Phone A was removed and then put into a
Nokia phone.
Speaker 7 (23:30):
Is she not in the house during the search, Oh?
Speaker 6 (23:33):
No, she is. This is what's so wild. She is
there with them. And normally if they're like searching your property, right, like,
they're obviously suspicious of her by this point, they like
make you stay by them. Well, she told one of
the detectives that she needed some privacy to call her lawyer,
so they let her go into a room by herself
for a moment. And this they believe, according to the
data logues, is when some of this stuff starts happening.
Speaker 7 (23:56):
I mean, how do you even explain that away?
Speaker 6 (23:58):
I like everything they've got again her, I think it's
gonna be hard. Yeah. And one of the other things
that they have against her are some chat logs with
a group that she has on Facebook, like the small
group of friends. Because before she killed her family, guess
what this woman was a part of online.
Speaker 7 (24:14):
I truly cannot even begin to wonder.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
A true crime Facebook community which needs don't be crime drunk.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's not.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
I mean, again, don't give us a bad name eron,
but like it's uh, they don't ever name it as
far as I can tell. But I actually had our
team check not crime junkie as far as I know. Anyways,
it's not like she had just joined this group. She
was part of this group a while back. And really
what ended up happening is kind of like so many
of our crime junkie she ends up bonding with kind
of a group of people who move their chat outside
of the group, and it it really isn't even about
(24:45):
true crime, right, It's not like they're it's damming and
they're talking about ways to kill people or anything like it.
Speaker 7 (24:49):
Sounds like they're on the little community.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Yeah, their friend group. They're talking about life, they're talking
about what they're making for dinner and their kids and.
Speaker 7 (24:55):
Like whatever loaded conversation here.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
And what's so interesting is that police can see in
all these communications that to this group, Aarin shares a
very different version of her relationship with her in laws
than the one that she'd been telling police, right like, Oh,
I love them, They're there for me, like they're wonderful.
This is a different story because you see, even though
(25:18):
things had been amicable between Simon and Aaron since they
separated years before, there was a pretty drastic shift within
the last year, and the prosecution alleges that it was
all really set in motion when the couple each filed
their taxes in twenty twenty two, because on those forms,
(25:38):
Simon's accountant listed him as separated, which they were, but
that was never how they had filed all like all
the years before, and apparently filing this way had some
major like financial implications for Aarin. She was the one
with the money in the relationship, after getting a big
inheritance from her grandmother and then her mother when they
each passed away, and this check of a box had like,
(26:00):
like I said, big implications for her, and it turned
into this big thing because while they had kind of
like figured out how to live their life and share
responsibility or whatever, now Aaron was like, Okay, that's out
the window. I'm filing for child support. We're going to
figure out how to split up the kids, like medical expenses,
school stuff, everything, and so things were just like tense,
(26:22):
right and by July, where before they would at least
like text, have some chatty banter like how are you
doing whatever, Like all signs of a friendship were in
the past. And even though Simon would later tell the
court that from his perspective, she really did seem to
love his parents, she was telling her friends in this group,
in her online group a different thing. She had apparently
(26:45):
tried to go to them to kind of ask them
to like help mediate between her and Simon, basically like
talk some sense into your son so we can figure
this out. But they didn't want to help. They're like,
we are staying out of it. You guys need to
work this out between the two of you. And so
the text that they start pulling in this like group
(27:05):
message or whatever over time does not look favorable for Aaron,
and I can't even have you read some of them.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Okay, so these are some of the texts. Yeah, this family,
I swear to freaking God, nobody bloody listens to me.
At least I know they're a lost cause. So anyway,
I sent a group message to all of them last
night saying how Simon's behavior is unconscionable. I think that's
what she's trying to say. It's kind of spelled weird,
and asking me to withdraw the child' support claim is
(27:31):
wrong and disadvantages me and his children, and how dare
he et cetera. I'm sick of this shit. I want
nothing to do with them. I thought his parents would
want him to do the right thing, but it seems
they're concern about not wanting to feel uncomfortable and not
wanting to get involved in their son's personal matters or
overwriting that. So for them, I don't need anything from
any of these people. His mum was horrified I had
(27:52):
claimed child support. Why isn't she horrified her son is
such a deadbeat and that I had no choice but
to claim point it? Yeah, Yeah, and a completely different
vibe than what like she was telling everybody like did
Simon and his family like, were they feeling any of
this animosity or was it still like we are all.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Amicable like you were saying again, I mean, I think
things were tends with Simon, hence why he didn't want
to go to the lunch and bailed last minute, thank god.
But no, he had no idea that she felt this
way about his parents.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
That's kind of the piece that's missing for me. Like
she hates Simon over the separation and the money stuff,
hates his parents because she thinks that they should be
stepping in or telling their son what to do, or
just didn't raise them right or whatever, Like where did
that an uncle come into this? Like they seem dude,
completely separated from all this.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
This is the part that makes no sense to me,
and the part that no one can seem to make
sense of because they were like acquaintances at best, per
what Ian said on the stand, and there's never anything
suggesting that she went to them for any kind of
support or like asking them to step in, like they said,
this lunch invite felt kind of out of the blue
to them.
Speaker 7 (28:59):
So she's just so angry she wanted to take out
this entire family.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Yes, I don't know, and I mean you teed this
up to.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
Be like was this murder question mark, but I feel
like the answer is pretty obvious. And it also feels
super premeditated. I mean, she was forging and drying mushrooms.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
I know, and like it even feels like she was
trying to lay the groundwork for a defense on some
things long before it even happened, because like police also
found one message in like that same friend group or whatever,
where she basically was saying that she had been hiding
powdered mushrooms in everything to like sneak them to her
kids because they didn't like them. So she was like
(29:39):
making them, drying them, making them powder, mixing them up
and like putting them in brownies or whatever. And according
to the Guardian, this friend group also said that she
sent pictures of a dehydrator in her kitchen that was
apparently exclusively used for mushrooms. And by the way, they
also find that picture, so she got ahead of that one.
But for as claya as this seems, with the phones
(30:02):
and they're like, oh, look, I'm doing something with mushrooms
that is totally not nefarious. This whole thing was also
really sloppy because they also find pictures on a tablet
of hers where there are mushrooms on a scale that
an expert later identifies as like he believes their deathcap mushrooms.
So from start to finish, this woman left a trail
(30:23):
of circumstantial evidence pointing right at her, all the way
back to the fact that she was not sick at all.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
Right, I was thinking about that, Like, did they not,
like they were all at this lunch at her house together,
did they not notice that she just wasn't eating.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
No, she was eating lunch. She cause, like you said,
remember she.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Were individual ones. Yes, she made a special non poison
one for herself.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, and Ian our lone survivor. He says that, like,
looking back, he remembers that she didn't want help, like
serving everything up, and while everyone that was there ate
off of gray plates, hers was orange.
Speaker 7 (31:02):
I know this is like a fool's errand, but I'm
trying to like put myself in her shoes to understand
how she would even think that there's a remote possibility
that she'd get away with this, Like, I mean, I
guess I assume she's counting on that no one would
live to tell the tale. So who cares if she
fake cancer? The weird plate thing, Yeah, pa out like take.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Away those two pieces that we know because ian survive.
There's still like an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence that
is piling up against her, including by the way, speaking
of her not being sick, I forgot to mention this.
Remember how she is telling everyone she has like bad diarrhea.
Speaker 7 (31:41):
Yeah, she couldn't like drive because of it, which.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
By the way, I never thought I would say diarrhea
is so much in a single episode. So yeah, so
she's like, this is why I'm not gonna go the
hospital to get checked out.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
Whatever.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
Well, apparently that first day her son had some kind
of flying lesson that was scheduled, and she drove him
like ninety minutes away for this thing, and that whole
time she made one stop at a restop or gas
station or something. There is CCTV footage of her going inside,
going to the bathroom, but for nine seconds and then leaving.
Now that's not a smoking gun of anything. It's again
(32:14):
circumstantial evidence, but of yet another lie. But like everything
in this is circumstantial, and the thing is Aaron says
that she can explain all of it, and she tries
to because after she is charged with murder, the trial
becomes one of the biggest spectacles in Australia. Like this year,
(32:35):
while we in the US had Karen Reid Round two,
they were all obsessed with Aaron Patterson's trial. So with
the whole world watching, Aaron Patterson takes the stand for
eight days in her own defense. All right, where to begin,
I'm just kinda kind of go down the punch list, Okay,
(32:55):
So she says that she made individual Wellington's not big
one because when she went to the store, they just
didn't have like the big cut that she needed. Now,
why not go to the butcher and get the thing
that you need so you don't have to change the
whole recipe? And she's like, I don't know, mad was
easier this way? Okay, fine, and she says, yes, the
plates were different, but she didn't have a complete set
(33:18):
of matching plates, which is actually backed up by other
people who testified too. Okay, but like, how did you
not get sick? And here is where we got a
brand new confession of sorts. For the very first time,
she said that she has had body image issues since
(33:39):
she was very young, and for much of her life
she would binge, eat and then purge. And she said
on that day she ate her lunch. She said she
didn't eat the whole Wellington, like a quarter or a
half of it or whatever, but then she ate almost
an entire cake that one of the guests brought, and then,
feeling ill from overeating, she went to the back room
(34:00):
and threw up. And that's probably why she didn't get sick.
Speaker 10 (34:05):
Now.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
They asked her on the stand, like, did you barf
for the beef Wellington up, like that's the thing, and
she's like, yeah, probably maybe, I don't know. There's no
way to be sure, but she still does maintain that
she was mildly sick. Now when they confront her with
the video showing this long drive she makes but where
she doesn't even go to the bathroom long enough to
wash her hands, much less anything else, she says that
she went in there to throw away tissues because she
(34:27):
actually couldn't hold it earlier, had to stop on the
side of the road or something to relieve herself, and
so she had like tissues and a dog bag or
something that she cleaned herself up with and like threw
it away. That's why she was in there so like
for such a short time. But her son, who is
in the car ride with her, cannot verify this.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Okay, what about the whole reason for this lunch to
begin with. It's like, what's the explanation for the fake cancer?
You can't really explain that conversation away.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
She tried, so and this like this is where like
there ends up being this huge Harry Mason got your
moment in court. I know my sho diagnosed murder. Pira Maason,
I'm like killing Core's murder, she wrote. So in court,
they're asking her about this and she's like, no, I
didn't have cancer. But this goes back to her body
image issue. She said that she wanted to have gastric
(35:18):
bypass surgery, but she was too embarrassed to tell people that.
But she knew that she was gonna need the families
like help and support with the kids postops, So she
made up the whole cancer story because she's like, basically like,
I'm gonna have surgery either way. I was just telling
this other thing so because I didn't want to tell
them what I was really having like done so on
the stand, They're like, okay, gastric bypass surgery, cool? Was
(35:40):
it booked? Yes?
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (35:42):
Where so she tells them, and she gets caught on
the stand lying because that place didn't even offer gastric
bypass surgery. What I know, I don't like, what are
you thinking?
Speaker 7 (35:57):
Yeah, oh my god, Okay, that doesn't ex anything that's wild.
But there's more here, like disposing of evidence like the phones,
the dehydrator.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Basically, she says at certain points when she realized that
people were suspicious of her or like trying to blame her,
she panicked and just did things that are dumb and
make her look guilty, like the whole dehydrator thing. She
says she tossed that because her husband was accusing her
in the hospital of killing his parents, which he says
is untrue. He's like, I never accused her of that.
(36:28):
Like the early days and then the phone stuff. I mean,
she has like a number of weird reasons that were
all kind of different in the time leading up to trial,
but like all in all, it was it boiled down
to basically her like panicking when she knew police were
looking seriously at her. Now, as for where the mushrooms
(36:48):
came from whereas before she always told police she never
forged mushrooms and she bought those dried mushrooms from an
Asian grocer. Now she admits that she did get in
to forging during lockdown, and she's always loved eating mushrooms,
and she said her kids had even seen her forged
mushrooms before. By the way, they deny this, And she
(37:10):
adds that while she does forage, she definitely didn't go
foraging in that one town where the death caps were
spotted after they were posted online.
Speaker 7 (37:20):
Even though I would say even though she went there
right after it was posted.
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Her phone location suggests she was in that area.
Speaker 7 (37:26):
Like, knowing what she's accused of, I feel like I
shouldn't be shocked that she's bringing the kids into this
so much, But I still kind of am, like she's
really relying on them a lot for like they saw
me here, they can verify that we did this. Like,
dragging them into this feels like very low in a
way that is even shocking for this.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Case, I know, And like, I mean, really how lucky
for them that they still have their father, But like
I can't imagine what this does to a person especially
like a minor, a kid trying to reconcile that your
mom would do something like this, and the fact that
she would like toss you out there as a part
of a lie, expecting you to what back her up,
(38:08):
while you also know that she planned for your dad
to be at that lunch. Yeah, Like, I don't know
what their relationship with their mom was like before all this,
but I haven't heard any wild stories. I mean, part
of what I think captivated a nation in the world
was you don't often see someone who is described as
a loving mother turn into a mass murderer. Like do
(38:28):
you then have to go back and rewrite your whole
history with someone?
Speaker 7 (38:31):
I would say, for me, it feels like you'd have
to like question so many of your interactions.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Like was it always an act or like just recently
and like one of the things that came out in
court that I actually found really interesting was around Aaron's
faith or black thereof. So early on in her life
she had been an atheist, and she said that she
tried convincing Simon, who was a Christian, to be atheist too,
But in two thousand and five, when they were dating,
(38:56):
he took her to of all places Ian's church.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
Ian uncle only survivor Ian.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
Remember, he is a pastor like was still is. But
he took her to a service, and she said that
she at this service had a spiritual experience and became
a Christian herself then and there. But the prosecution put
forward some messages or like actually more like emojis she
sent that made it appear that she mocked the family's
(39:24):
religious beliefs to other people, and her friend grew purported
that she told them she was still an atheist and
she thought Simon's religious background was difficult. But on the
stand she remains adamant that she is a Christian.
Speaker 7 (39:39):
Aaron, thou shalt not lie. It's in like the top ten.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Yeah, And it was clear to the jury that's what
she had done, over and over again. Lie Lie, Lie,
to police, to her family, right there, to the jurors,
And after nine weeks of trial and six days of deliberation,
on July seventh, twenty twenty five, a jury in the
Supreme Court of Victoria convicted her of three counts of
(40:05):
murder and one count of attempted murder. So what's gonna
happen next? She basically is gonna have twenty eight days
from the time of sentencing to appeal her conviction, her sentence,
and as of this recording, that sentencing hasn't happened yet,
but usually they say they do that within about a month,
So like when this episode comes out, right now, right now, right,
(40:25):
So if you follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast,
I'll be posting an update to let you know when
that happens, which will put a clock on the appeal.
Speaker 7 (40:33):
And I would be shocked if she didn't appeal.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
Same listen, I am. I think I'm still totally consumed
with trying to understand why, especially why for Ian and Heather,
this aunt and uncle that you were barely close with,
one of whom was a pastor, your pastor. I mean,
it's part of the reason why I found like the
whole talk of religion so interesting, even though it wasn't
(40:57):
a core part of the trial, Like it's not real evidence,
but I wonder if there's something there, like I just
can't put my finger on it. And in court, by
the way, she said like, oh yes, I said these things,
but I was frustrated and you're like pulling out like
the worst moments, like right, yeah, you don't want God,
(41:18):
like God forbid, I'm everyone trial, like I don't want
anyone going the right text messages, But I don't know,
like is that real? Like is this I think we
have to point to them so much or why people
do is because like without those nothing makes it like has.
Speaker 7 (41:30):
To you have to have them to like complete painting
the picture right.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
But I'm not sure you can make sense of someone
who was willing to do what Aaron did to her kids,
to Simon and to her in laws and listen, if
she was honest about her beliefs, maybe she'll have a
come to Jesus and her family if no one else
will get whatever answers they need to to move forward.
(42:07):
You can find all the source material for this episode
on our website, Crime Junkie podcast dot com, and you.
Speaker 7 (42:12):
Can follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.
Speaker 11 (42:15):
We'll be back next week with the brand new episode.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. I think Chuck
would approve.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
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holding a newspaper, or a squint so tightly at the
menu the waiter thinks you're sleeping, or at Specsavers, we
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Speaker 3 (43:43):
There was one hell of a performance, but with football
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