September 26, 2024 • 12 mins
Shawn Grate, an Ohio serial killer, was arrested in 2016 after a woman he kidnapped called 911 while being held captive. Grate was convicted of murdering five women between 2006 and 2016. His victims were often vulnerable women whom he lured into abandoned houses. Grate’s crimes came to light when his final victim bravely escaped and alerted authorities, leading to his arrest. After his capture, he confessed to multiple murders, showing little remorse. In 2018, he was sentenced to death, with additional life sentences for rape, kidnapping, and other charges. Grate’s chilling confessions and the bravery of the surviving victim captivated public attention, underscoring both the horror of his crimes and the failures in identifying him sooner.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You ready for this?
(00:01):
We're about to spend some serious time
inside the mind of Sean Great,
and let me tell you, this journey is dark,
even for a deep dive.
As you know from the interrogation footage,
Great's outward demeanor didn't exactly scream
serial killer.
It's true, on the surface, he could seem almost normal,
but that's what makes these recordings so fascinating, right?
We get to peel back those layers
(00:22):
and see what lurks beneath.
Okay, so picture this.
The interrogation room,
right after Great's arrest for abducting and assaulting Jane Doe.
You've seen the footage, so you know he's surprisingly calm,
even charming at times.
That's a classic tactic we see with criminals,
especially in those early stages of interrogation.
It's a defense mechanism,
and attempt to control the narrative
before it controls them.
(00:44):
Exactly, and Great takes it to another level.
He actually describes the abduction of Jane Doe as a joke.
It's like, dude, you tied a woman up,
held her against her will, how is that a joke?
He's downplaying, deflecting.
It's incredibly common, but no less unsettling,
to hear that kind of language
from someone capable of such violence.
(01:05):
And there's this moment it's in the source material,
where Great starts talking about his religious beliefs,
almost like he's trying to score points with the interrogator.
Right, he's appealing to a sense of shared values,
hoping to humanize himself.
It's a common manipulation tactic
we see time and again in these cases.
But here's where it gets really interesting,
and this is key to understanding Great.
Despite the calm facade, he seems genuinely convinced
(01:28):
that the police already know where Elizabeth Griffith is.
And remember, they are literally sitting in the house
where her body is hidden.
The disconnect there is chilling.
Totally, and it gets weirder,
because he starts saying things like,
Elizabeth is free now, that she jumped on his back.
He's really strange cryptic statements.
(01:49):
This could point to delusion,
a desperate attempt to distance himself from the crime,
or even a twisted form of manipulation.
It's that ambiguity that makes his interrogation
so unsettling.
It's like he's crafted this alternate reality
where he's not a killer, but some kind of savior.
I mean, it's messed up.
And just when the interrogation seems to be at a standstill,
(02:09):
he makes a critical mistake,
a slip of the tongue that cracks the case wide open.
He accidentally mentions the name Martha,
which as you know, leads investigators
straight to another victim, Candice Cunningham.
And this, my friend, is where the floodgates open.
The shift in Great's demeanor is subtle, but it's there.
He goes from evasive to, well, you've heard the transcripts.
(02:29):
Yeah, it's like a switch flips.
Suddenly he's confessing to Candice's murder with this,
eerily calm demeanor,
almost like he's relieved to finally be talking
about it openly.
And we see a pattern emerge.
He immediately starts blaming Candice,
claiming she provoked him.
Exactly, just like he did with Jane Doe.
It's like a broken record of deflecting responsibility.
(02:50):
It's a classic abuser tactic.
By shifting the blame,
Grape maintains a sense of self-justification.
It allows him to hold onto the belief
that he's not inherently bad,
that his actions were somehow warranted.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Remember, we're talking about multiple victims here,
a web of lies and a chilling descent
into the mind of a killer.
And this is where Detective Kim Major enters the picture.
(03:13):
As you've seen in the later interrogation footage,
she brings a completely different energy to the table.
Right, it's like night and day.
Yeah.
Forget good cop, bad cop major.
Is playing 4D chess while everyone else
is still setting up the board.
It's fascinating to watch.
Her approach is all about building rapport.
She establishes this incredibly non-judgmental tone,
(03:34):
almost compassionate,
which creates a space where Grape
feels comfortable talking, even confessing.
It's wild, right?
This guy has just confessed to multiple murders,
and he's more open with Major
than he was with the previous detective.
You can practically see his guard coming down.
Major is incredibly skilled at disarming Grape,
making him feel heard even while he's describing
the most horrific acts.
(03:55):
Offering him coffee, asking about his day,
these small gestures go a long way
in breaking down his defenses.
It's like she's saying, hey, I see you, Sean, I hear you.
And for someone like Grape who's so desperate
for control and validation, that's huge.
Exactly, he needs that validation,
that twisted sense of connection,
even as he's confessing to these terrible crimes.
Major recognizes that and uses it to her advantage.
(04:17):
It's masterful.
Like she'll actually praise his honesty,
even when it's obvious he's still holding back.
She's reinforcing the behavior she wants to see.
More honesty, more details, more confessions.
And guess what?
Yeah. It works.
It's textbook behavioral psychology,
but to see it deployed so effectively in this context
is remarkable, and it yields results.
(04:38):
It's through this approach that we get some
of the most shocking confessions in the entire case.
Grape's confession about Candice, for example,
comes across as almost casual.
Yeah, and that's what's so disturbing about it.
He's talking about taking a life like he's describing
a trip to the grocery store.
Keep saying things like she kept attacking me
or I didn't really mean to, but I snapped.
He's minimizing his own actions,
(04:58):
which as you know is common in these cases.
But more than that, he's constructing a narrative
where his victims are somehow to blame
that they forced his hand.
It's classic abuser language, right?
But then he takes it a step further,
describing his victims as burdens on society people
who are better off dead.
It's chilling.
Like who appointed him judge, jury, and executioner?
(05:19):
This is where Grape's warped sense of morality
comes into play.
This belief that he's doing the world a favor
by eliminating those he deems unworthy,
it's a terrifyingly disordered worldview.
And we see this play out even more tragically
with Stacey Stanley.
Remember how earlier in the interrogation
Grape slipped up and said there were four victims?
That seemingly insignificant slip of the tongue
(05:41):
is a turning point in the investigation.
Major seizes on it, and that's what ultimately leads
to Grape confessing to killing Stacey just days
before his arrest.
It's terrifying how quickly things escalate.
One minute he's being evasive,
the next he's describing how he lured Stacey back
to his place by pretending to help her with a flat tire.
Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing.
(06:01):
It's a classic example of how easily
a seemingly kind gesture can mask a sinister motive.
And it's a stark reminder that evil often hides
in plain sight.
And just when you think Grape has revealed everything,
he drops another bombshell.
He confesses to a cold case murder from 2005,
a woman named Dina Lowry.
This confession is particularly chilling
(06:22):
because it reveals just how long Grape has been harboring
this darkness.
This wasn't a recent development.
This was a crime that had gone unsolved for over a decade.
And here's where a seemingly insignificant detail
from earlier comes back into play.
You remember that story Grape told about the magazine
Sales Woman who scammed his mother?
As it turns out, Dana was that Sales Woman,
Grape had been carrying around this grudge against her
(06:43):
for years, waiting for the right moment to exact his revenge.
It's like he's haunted by these perceived injustices,
these slights against him and those he supposedly cares about.
And his way of dealing with it is murder.
Grape's need for control, coupled
with this utterly warped sense of justice,
is a recipe for disaster.
He sees himself as some kind of righteous avenger
(07:04):
delivering punishment to those he believes deserve it,
even if that deserving is based on a decade old grudge.
It's scary how someone can so easily rationalize
horrific acts in their own mind.
And that's why understanding the psychology of someone
like Grape is so important.
We can't just dismiss him as a monster.
We have to try to understand the thought processes,
the twisted justifications that led him
(07:24):
to commit these terrible crimes.
It's not about excusing his actions,
but about learning from them.
And as we'll see, a lot of his issues
seem to stem from his childhood and his very troubled
relationship with his mother.
Right.
Grape's upbringing marked by neglect and emotional instability
clearly played a role in shaping his personality
and his capacity for violence.
He talks about his mother with this strange mix
(07:46):
of resentment, longing, and fear.
It's clear he craved her love and approval
that felt deeply rejected and abandoned.
This push and pull dynamic is a recurring theme
throughout Grape's life.
And it's hard not to see echoes of that in his relationships
with his victims.
It's like he's subconsciously trying
to punish his mother through these other women
to make her feel the same pain and rejection he experienced.
(08:08):
It's tragic, but it's a pattern we see often
in these kinds of cases.
What's particularly disturbing is the way
Grape describes his crimes and meticulous planning,
the way he relishes the power he holds over his victims.
This need for control stemming from his own feelings
of powerlessness is palpable.
And that brings us to one of the most unsettling aspects
of this case, the fact that Grape hints at even more victims,
(08:32):
victims who may never be found.
Exactly.
Despite the multiple confessions,
the true extent of his crimes remains shrouded in mystery.
It's a chilling reminder that evil often
lurks beneath of the near of normalcy
that the most dangerous predators
can be masters of disguise.
And that's what makes Grape's story so profoundly unsettling.
He could have been anyone.
He could have been your neighbor, your coworker.
(08:54):
The guy who helps you change a flat tire.
Remember Stacey's story.
It's a stark reminder that we need
to be vigilant to trust our instincts
and to be aware of the warning signs of manipulation
and abuse.
Because as we've seen, the line between normalcy
and monstrous acts can be terrifyingly thin.
So we're knee deep in these interrogation tapes, right?
And you know, Greatissa always trying
to control the narrative.
(09:15):
He's confessed to four murders.
We've got Jane Doe's case.
But remember that slip-up he makes when he thinks
there are five victims.
Subtle, but Major catches it instantly.
Like she can sense that hesitation almost
like he wants to confess.
Yeah, like it's eating at him.
Exactly.
And her approach, all that patience,
that positive reinforcement, it pays off.
Big time.
(09:36):
He finally cracks and tells him about Stacey Stanley,
even describes how he used that whole flat tire thing
to get closer.
Just awful.
It's chilling how easily he could turn on the charm,
disarm someone with kindness.
Right.
You'd never suspect a thing.
Great was a master manipulator.
He knew how to exploit people's good nature,
their willingness to help, and the really disturbing part.
(09:56):
He used those everyday interactions,
those seemingly insignificant moments,
as a way to gain control.
Like he was always playing this twisted game in his head,
always looking for the next move, the next victim.
Precisely.
It's a chilling thought.
It is.
And as awful as Stacey's murder is,
Great's next confession is the one that really
gets under your skin, Rebecca Lacey.
(10:17):
Rebecca's case, as you know, had gone cold, years
without answers.
But when Major brings her up, Great's reaction
is, well, it speaks volumes.
Totally.
It's like a complete 180.
One minute he's all calculated, in control, and then.
He starts rambling, calling Rebecca a good person,
but then claiming she tried to rob him,
that he killed her in self-defense.
But his story is all over the place.
(10:38):
Right.
It's full of holes, inconsistent details,
flimsy justifications.
You can practically hear the desperation in his voice,
see it in his body language, that need to paint himself
as the victim.
Exactly.
And it's not just Rebecca.
He does the same thing with Elizabeth and Stacey,
saying they should have been taken aback or put in an institution.
(10:59):
He even blames the government for their deaths.
It's like he's created this whole other reality in his head,
a reality where he's not a killer,
but some kind of messed up savior,
delivering his own twisted version of justice.
And that's what makes Great so incredibly dangerous,
this unshakable belief that he's in the right,
that he's somehow doing the world a favor
by getting rid of these women he deems unworthy.
(11:21):
It's a terrifying example of how evil can disguise
itself as righteousness.
It really is.
So as we get to the end of these takes,
after everything we've heard, what are we left with?
What's the biggest takeaway from this deep dive
into the mind of Sean Great?
Great's story forces us to confront some very unsettling
truths about human nature, that monsters often hide
(11:42):
in plain sight, that none of us are immune to the capacity
for violence, that even the most normal seeming people can
commit unspeakable acts.
That's a sobering thought for sure.
But it's also a reminder to be vigilant,
to trust our gut instincts, and to never underestimate
the power of compassion and understanding in a world that
can feel very dark and unforgiving.
Great's case, with all its unsettling details,
(12:05):
ultimately highlights the importance of awareness,
empathy, and creating a safer world for everyone.
And if this deep dive has peaked your interest in true crime,
the psychology behind these horrific acts,
remember there are resources out there
to help you learn more.
Stay informed, stay safe, and thanks
for joining us on this deep dive.
You ready for this?
(00:01):
We're about to spend some serious time
inside the mind of Sean Great,
and let me tell you, this journey is dark,
even for a deep dive.
As you know from the interrogation footage,
Great's outward demeanor didn't exactly scream
serial killer.
It's true, on the surface, he could seem almost normal,
but that's what makes these recordings so fascinating, right?
We get to peel back those layers
(00:22):
and see what lurks beneath.
Okay, so picture this.
The interrogation room,
right after Great's arrest for abducting and assaulting Jane Doe.
You've seen the footage, so you know he's surprisingly calm,
even charming at times.
That's a classic tactic we see with criminals,
especially in those early stages of interrogation.
It's a defense mechanism,
and attempt to control the narrative
before it controls them.
(00:44):
Exactly, and Great takes it to another level.
He actually describes the abduction of Jane Doe as a joke.
It's like, dude, you tied a woman up,
held her against her will, how is that a joke?
He's downplaying, deflecting.
It's incredibly common, but no less unsettling,
to hear that kind of language
from someone capable of such violence.
(01:05):
And there's this moment it's in the source material,
where Great starts talking about his religious beliefs,
almost like he's trying to score points with the interrogator.
Right, he's appealing to a sense of shared values,
hoping to humanize himself.
It's a common manipulation tactic
we see time and again in these cases.
But here's where it gets really interesting,
and this is key to understanding Great.
Despite the calm facade, he seems genuinely convinced
(01:28):
that the police already know where Elizabeth Griffith is.
And remember, they are literally sitting in the house
where her body is hidden.
The disconnect there is chilling.
Totally, and it gets weirder,
because he starts saying things like,
Elizabeth is free now, that she jumped on his back.
He's really strange cryptic statements.
(01:49):
This could point to delusion,
a desperate attempt to distance himself from the crime,
or even a twisted form of manipulation.
It's that ambiguity that makes his interrogation
so unsettling.
It's like he's crafted this alternate reality
where he's not a killer, but some kind of savior.
I mean, it's messed up.
And just when the interrogation seems to be at a standstill,
(02:09):
he makes a critical mistake,
a slip of the tongue that cracks the case wide open.
He accidentally mentions the name Martha,
which as you know, leads investigators
straight to another victim, Candice Cunningham.
And this, my friend, is where the floodgates open.
The shift in Great's demeanor is subtle, but it's there.
He goes from evasive to, well, you've heard the transcripts.
(02:29):
Yeah, it's like a switch flips.
Suddenly he's confessing to Candice's murder with this,
eerily calm demeanor,
almost like he's relieved to finally be talking
about it openly.
And we see a pattern emerge.
He immediately starts blaming Candice,
claiming she provoked him.
Exactly, just like he did with Jane Doe.
It's like a broken record of deflecting responsibility.
(02:50):
It's a classic abuser tactic.
By shifting the blame,
Grape maintains a sense of self-justification.
It allows him to hold onto the belief
that he's not inherently bad,
that his actions were somehow warranted.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Remember, we're talking about multiple victims here,
a web of lies and a chilling descent
into the mind of a killer.
And this is where Detective Kim Major enters the picture.
(03:13):
As you've seen in the later interrogation footage,
she brings a completely different energy to the table.
Right, it's like night and day.
Yeah.
Forget good cop, bad cop major.
Is playing 4D chess while everyone else
is still setting up the board.
It's fascinating to watch.
Her approach is all about building rapport.
She establishes this incredibly non-judgmental tone,
(03:34):
almost compassionate,
which creates a space where Grape
feels comfortable talking, even confessing.
It's wild, right?
This guy has just confessed to multiple murders,
and he's more open with Major
than he was with the previous detective.
You can practically see his guard coming down.
Major is incredibly skilled at disarming Grape,
making him feel heard even while he's describing
the most horrific acts.
(03:55):
Offering him coffee, asking about his day,
these small gestures go a long way
in breaking down his defenses.
It's like she's saying, hey, I see you, Sean, I hear you.
And for someone like Grape who's so desperate
for control and validation, that's huge.
Exactly, he needs that validation,
that twisted sense of connection,
even as he's confessing to these terrible crimes.
Major recognizes that and uses it to her advantage.
(04:17):
It's masterful.
Like she'll actually praise his honesty,
even when it's obvious he's still holding back.
She's reinforcing the behavior she wants to see.
More honesty, more details, more confessions.
And guess what?
Yeah. It works.
It's textbook behavioral psychology,
but to see it deployed so effectively in this context
is remarkable, and it yields results.
(04:38):
It's through this approach that we get some
of the most shocking confessions in the entire case.
Grape's confession about Candice, for example,
comes across as almost casual.
Yeah, and that's what's so disturbing about it.
He's talking about taking a life like he's describing
a trip to the grocery store.
Keep saying things like she kept attacking me
or I didn't really mean to, but I snapped.
He's minimizing his own actions,
(04:58):
which as you know is common in these cases.
But more than that, he's constructing a narrative
where his victims are somehow to blame
that they forced his hand.
It's classic abuser language, right?
But then he takes it a step further,
describing his victims as burdens on society people
who are better off dead.
It's chilling.
Like who appointed him judge, jury, and executioner?
(05:19):
This is where Grape's warped sense of morality
comes into play.
This belief that he's doing the world a favor
by eliminating those he deems unworthy,
it's a terrifyingly disordered worldview.
And we see this play out even more tragically
with Stacey Stanley.
Remember how earlier in the interrogation
Grape slipped up and said there were four victims?
That seemingly insignificant slip of the tongue
(05:41):
is a turning point in the investigation.
Major seizes on it, and that's what ultimately leads
to Grape confessing to killing Stacey just days
before his arrest.
It's terrifying how quickly things escalate.
One minute he's being evasive,
the next he's describing how he lured Stacey back
to his place by pretending to help her with a flat tire.
Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing.
(06:01):
It's a classic example of how easily
a seemingly kind gesture can mask a sinister motive.
And it's a stark reminder that evil often hides
in plain sight.
And just when you think Grape has revealed everything,
he drops another bombshell.
He confesses to a cold case murder from 2005,
a woman named Dina Lowry.
This confession is particularly chilling
(06:22):
because it reveals just how long Grape has been harboring
this darkness.
This wasn't a recent development.
This was a crime that had gone unsolved for over a decade.
And here's where a seemingly insignificant detail
from earlier comes back into play.
You remember that story Grape told about the magazine
Sales Woman who scammed his mother?
As it turns out, Dana was that Sales Woman,
Grape had been carrying around this grudge against her
(06:43):
for years, waiting for the right moment to exact his revenge.
It's like he's haunted by these perceived injustices,
these slights against him and those he supposedly cares about.
And his way of dealing with it is murder.
Grape's need for control, coupled
with this utterly warped sense of justice,
is a recipe for disaster.
He sees himself as some kind of righteous avenger
(07:04):
delivering punishment to those he believes deserve it,
even if that deserving is based on a decade old grudge.
It's scary how someone can so easily rationalize
horrific acts in their own mind.
And that's why understanding the psychology of someone
like Grape is so important.
We can't just dismiss him as a monster.
We have to try to understand the thought processes,
the twisted justifications that led him
(07:24):
to commit these terrible crimes.
It's not about excusing his actions,
but about learning from them.
And as we'll see, a lot of his issues
seem to stem from his childhood and his very troubled
relationship with his mother.
Right.
Grape's upbringing marked by neglect and emotional instability
clearly played a role in shaping his personality
and his capacity for violence.
He talks about his mother with this strange mix
(07:46):
of resentment, longing, and fear.
It's clear he craved her love and approval
that felt deeply rejected and abandoned.
This push and pull dynamic is a recurring theme
throughout Grape's life.
And it's hard not to see echoes of that in his relationships
with his victims.
It's like he's subconsciously trying
to punish his mother through these other women
to make her feel the same pain and rejection he experienced.
(08:08):
It's tragic, but it's a pattern we see often
in these kinds of cases.
What's particularly disturbing is the way
Grape describes his crimes and meticulous planning,
the way he relishes the power he holds over his victims.
This need for control stemming from his own feelings
of powerlessness is palpable.
And that brings us to one of the most unsettling aspects
of this case, the fact that Grape hints at even more victims,
(08:32):
victims who may never be found.
Exactly.
Despite the multiple confessions,
the true extent of his crimes remains shrouded in mystery.
It's a chilling reminder that evil often
lurks beneath of the near of normalcy
that the most dangerous predators
can be masters of disguise.
And that's what makes Grape's story so profoundly unsettling.
He could have been anyone.
He could have been your neighbor, your coworker.
(08:54):
The guy who helps you change a flat tire.
Remember Stacey's story.
It's a stark reminder that we need
to be vigilant to trust our instincts
and to be aware of the warning signs of manipulation
and abuse.
Because as we've seen, the line between normalcy
and monstrous acts can be terrifyingly thin.
So we're knee deep in these interrogation tapes, right?
And you know, Greatissa always trying
to control the narrative.
(09:15):
He's confessed to four murders.
We've got Jane Doe's case.
But remember that slip-up he makes when he thinks
there are five victims.
Subtle, but Major catches it instantly.
Like she can sense that hesitation almost
like he wants to confess.
Yeah, like it's eating at him.
Exactly.
And her approach, all that patience,
that positive reinforcement, it pays off.
Big time.
(09:36):
He finally cracks and tells him about Stacey Stanley,
even describes how he used that whole flat tire thing
to get closer.
Just awful.
It's chilling how easily he could turn on the charm,
disarm someone with kindness.
Right.
You'd never suspect a thing.
Great was a master manipulator.
He knew how to exploit people's good nature,
their willingness to help, and the really disturbing part.
(09:56):
He used those everyday interactions,
those seemingly insignificant moments,
as a way to gain control.
Like he was always playing this twisted game in his head,
always looking for the next move, the next victim.
Precisely.
It's a chilling thought.
It is.
And as awful as Stacey's murder is,
Great's next confession is the one that really
gets under your skin, Rebecca Lacey.
(10:17):
Rebecca's case, as you know, had gone cold, years
without answers.
But when Major brings her up, Great's reaction
is, well, it speaks volumes.
Totally.
It's like a complete 180.
One minute he's all calculated, in control, and then.
He starts rambling, calling Rebecca a good person,
but then claiming she tried to rob him,
that he killed her in self-defense.
But his story is all over the place.
(10:38):
Right.
It's full of holes, inconsistent details,
flimsy justifications.
You can practically hear the desperation in his voice,
see it in his body language, that need to paint himself
as the victim.
Exactly.
And it's not just Rebecca.
He does the same thing with Elizabeth and Stacey,
saying they should have been taken aback or put in an institution.
(10:59):
He even blames the government for their deaths.
It's like he's created this whole other reality in his head,
a reality where he's not a killer,
but some kind of messed up savior,
delivering his own twisted version of justice.
And that's what makes Great so incredibly dangerous,
this unshakable belief that he's in the right,
that he's somehow doing the world a favor
by getting rid of these women he deems unworthy.
(11:21):
It's a terrifying example of how evil can disguise
itself as righteousness.
It really is.
So as we get to the end of these takes,
after everything we've heard, what are we left with?
What's the biggest takeaway from this deep dive
into the mind of Sean Great?
Great's story forces us to confront some very unsettling
truths about human nature, that monsters often hide
(11:42):
in plain sight, that none of us are immune to the capacity
for violence, that even the most normal seeming people can
commit unspeakable acts.
That's a sobering thought for sure.
But it's also a reminder to be vigilant,
to trust our gut instincts, and to never underestimate
the power of compassion and understanding in a world that
can feel very dark and unforgiving.
Great's case, with all its unsettling details,
(12:05):
ultimately highlights the importance of awareness,
empathy, and creating a safer world for everyone.
And if this deep dive has peaked your interest in true crime,
the psychology behind these horrific acts,
remember there are resources out there
to help you learn more.
Stay informed, stay safe, and thanks
for joining us on this deep dive.
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