September 19, 2025 • 54 mins
Why do victims stay in abusive relationships? It's a question that perplexes many, often leading to judgment rather than understanding. In this powerful follow-up conversation with domestic violence expert Jennifer Capezza, we pull back the curtain on the complex web of emotional, financial, and safety factors that trap victims in dangerous situations.
Jennifer reveals how abusers operate as master manipulators who employ a "slow burn" approach to control. They don't show their true colors immediately but instead identify vulnerabilities, gradually establishing dominance through subtle criticism, gaslighting, and emotional manipulation. By the time red flags become obvious, victims are often deeply entangled in a distorted reality where their confidence and independence have been systematically dismantled.
The conversation takes us through the psychological journey of abuse victims, using compelling analogies like the "frog in boiling water" to illustrate how even the strongest, most intelligent individuals can become trapped. We explore practical strategies for recognizing patterns of abuse, including Melissa's powerful personal experience of documenting concerning behaviors to finally break free from her own abusive relationship.
What's particularly eye-opening is learning that domestic violence affects people from all walks of life – successful professionals, CEOs, even clinicians themselves. Jennifer emphasizes that no one is immune to manipulation and that understanding this reality is crucial for developing empathy rather than judgment toward those caught in these situations.
Whether you're personally experiencing abuse, supporting someone who is, or simply want to better understand this pervasive issue, this episode provides crucial insights that could save lives. Remember, help is available 24/7 through confidential hotlines, and you don't need to have all the answers before reaching out – trained counselors are ready to guide you through each step of the journey.
Have you witnessed these manipulation tactics in your own relationships or those of people you care about? What red flags do you wish you'd recognized sooner?
Join our private Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/771136888074777
Follow Melissa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missjayl/
Follow Melissa on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@healthychef1
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Dating.
Daycare where we help younavigate through the jungle of
jerks.
Today we have part two.
We have Jennifer Capizza backon Pronouncing that right, right
, no, help me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Help me Capizza.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I always say it's like the candy, but I am not
nearly as sweet.
Such a bad host, that's fine,just don't call me late.
Help me, capezza.
I always say it's like thecandy, but I am not nearly as
sweet.
Such a bad host, it's fine,just don't call me late for
dinner.
And you're from Long Island.
Domestic Against DomesticViolence yes, so our domestic
violence shelter person is here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We're not just a shelter.
I know we're going to get intothat later, but as a reminder,
so I'm the associate director,not later, but as a reminder.
So I'm the associate director.
I oversee a number of programs.
We have our safe harbor shelter, which was the first and still
is the most comprehensiveshelter on the island because we
(00:58):
also take pets.
We have that's huge, yeah.
So we got more into that in ourvery first episode.
But we have the largest advocacyprogram here on the island that
assists with court proceedings,custody et cetera.
We were actually the first inthe country to use that model
where we partner with police inthe police precincts.
Any day of the week you can getan advocate until like 9 or 11
o'clock at night.
We work alongside with police.
(01:19):
We have a counseling programadult and children group and
individual counseling programadult and children group and
individual.
We have a return to workfinancial like a vocational
financial literacy program.
So it's like resume writing andinterview prep, but it's also
credit repair, budgeting, all ofthat kind of stuff.
Everything.
You have everything there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Everything that one would need if you wanted to get
out of your domestic violencesituation.
This is where you need tocontact, and today we're doing
part two of why they stay.
You know a lot of everybody.
I would think most people knowsomebody that is in an abusive
(02:01):
relationship, whether it'smentally or physically or all of
the above Right and a lot ofpeople, or all of the above
Right and a lot of people arelike but we don't understand,
why did they stay Like youremember when that Marilyn
Manson thing came out, did youever see that it wasn't my crowd
?
But I vaguely remember.
I mean, I didn't listen to hismusic either, but it was all
over the internet when it's likethe women came out and he like
(02:28):
severely abused them.
Oh, this I did not, yes, yes.
And so many people were likeyou're fit, like they were
famous women.
These weren't just women offthe street that needed money or
needed.
They didn't have a home andthey were like, why would you
ever stay with that maniac?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, it looks like I mean he definitely just by
looking at that guy I would say,yeah, he's a lunatic, but
anyway but also don't why todaythis is the why, but also, on
that note, even before that,though, don't forget, the first
national landmark domesticviolence case was the oj simpson
trial yeah, and the murder ofnicole brown simpson and ron
(03:03):
howard.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Ron howard ron no was it howard Simpson and Ron
Howard?
Ron Howard, ron, no, was itHoward?
No Poor guy, I know, yeah, ron,yeah, poor guy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Let's Google it because I want to get that right
, because he deserves it.
That was a huge conversationand I've actually heard, if you
listen to, even their RonGoldman, ron Goldman, ron
Goldman.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Thank you, allison, you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So the murder of Nicole and Ron.
And I've heard 911 tapes wherebecause back then nobody really
knew what this was about and OJSimpson was revered and didn't
look like a lunatic rightEverybody loved him.
And I remember on the therecording hearing the 9-1-1
(03:48):
operator say um oh, you made himmad, oh gosh what happened.
And she goes yeah, I made himmad.
And you hear him in thebackground screaming and yelling
and banging like and she turnsaround and goes oh, jj, please,
the kids are sleeping and the911 operator's like wait, who is
(04:09):
that?
And she goes.
You know him.
It's OJ Simpson.
And the only reason I'll keepsaying his name is the offender
and naming him is because Ibelieve that you have to call it
, you have to say it.
And he was an evil.
Can we curse on the microphone?
Yeah, okay, of course he was anevil son of a bitch.
You know what I mean, but hedidn't look it Right and Nicole
(04:31):
stayed for a million reasons.
Right so that I always drawattention to that because a lot
of people saw that as mediafodder and tabloid stuff and
whatever.
But no Clinically.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Or puffy getting.
Yeah, right, oh, getting tolike 2025.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
26 right, yeah, right , so, and there's.
So.
Has things changed?
Things changed?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
no, things have not changed no, fortunately he's
getting off with murder.
I don't get literally literallygetting again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So here we are in that situation.
So one of the reasons why thisis such an important
conversation is because there'sa million reasons why they don't
leave, why people don't leave Amillion and I'm going to go out
on a limb and say you won'tunderstand any of them.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Ever, unless you're in it.
It's very hard for our audiencethat this particular show is
not pertaining to.
That isn't healthy, non-toxicrelationships.
I will admit to you thatsometimes it is hard to
understand.
If I'm gonna come from theopposite end of the spectrum,
totally respect that it is hardto um to understand why,
(05:41):
somebody in such a horrific likewe all understand, like our
regular dating woes and problemsand issues and what we call,
you know, toxic People use thatall the time they throw that
around.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
yeah, you know, like your average jerk face, the
average jerk face Right, Likethere's so many men you know the
average man that puts in thetime, you know, three months.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Love bombs you, breadcrumbs you.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And then disappears, or just annoys you Right, or?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
doesn't want to put in the effort, but I want love.
I want love, but they don'twant to work at the relationship
.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
They don't want to put in the effort.
No, this is not that.
This is not that, this is notthat Right, but I will say that
you, that you know there arecircumstances that I think are
more relatable than others, forsure you know.
But let me also sort of pointout that one of the reasons it's
so challenging, um, and frankly, even, even and here's I'm
(06:35):
gonna look, even if you've beenthrough it um, sometimes it's
difficult to talk to a friend ora colleague and say but I don't
understand, like you, literallythe instinct is.
You know, you take for grantedthat we're in a world we were
just talking.
This weekend actually, I waswith some family and we were
sort of reminiscing about ourgrandparents who were married
(06:55):
together for 66 years and, onone hand and they were amazing
couple and we still tell storiesthey're gone 15, um, 15 and 20
years now, but sorry, 15 and 10years now.
But you know, my cousin and Iwere saying, like you know, we'd
like to think that it was 100because they were amazing
together.
But let's not forget it's ourlifetime that women were not
(07:16):
allowed to have credit cards ontheir own bank account they
couldn't have their own bankaccount.
It was illegal for us to divorce, like you know it was just we
take part of why marriageslasted right like we take for
granted, like you, if you decidethat you want to get divorced,
nowadays for the most part youcan just go fill out some
paperwork and you have everyright to get.
(07:37):
So you know.
The thing about it, too, isthat you know we're human beings
and by nature we're logical,we're problem solvers, right
Like that's in our survivalnature.
So we want to see a thing thatwe can put a pin on and say this
is the reason, or I need tounderstand, right, but that's
(07:59):
going to be different foreverybody and that's why this
conversation is so important isthat it's not, first of all,
it's not the same for everybodyand, by the way, sometimes any
individual person, sometimesit's not the same on any given
day, do you know what I'm sayingand I think that's why, at
least for me, I wanted to startthis podcast for women, because
(08:19):
I think that, given nature ofwomen to want the, why is the?
reason why we always want thewhy Right?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And don't get me wrong, I want the why too, just
as much as everybody else.
But I'm healed enough, matureenough emotionally tactful
enough to know that sometimesyou're not going to get the why.
Yeah, and that's why I'm herefor you, ladies.
And let me just go to thebeginning here of the
(08:51):
relationship, before all of thisstuff that you're going to
discuss even happens.
Sometimes you are never goingto get the why, and you know
what the why turns into.
Here's what the why turns into,because I tell you this all,
all the time, and I say thisover and over and over again
Sometimes the why just has to be.
It's not for me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's not.
For me, that's like a no is acomplete sentence, and that's
the case, by the way, whetheryou're in a long-term
relationship or you're justdating, or you're just chatting
with somebody on an app and, allof a sudden, they disappear.
The answer is they're just ajerk face or it's gone, like
nobody cares, like whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And that's the easy, that's the very easy example of
something.
Let me give another example.
You're dating somebody for fouror five months and it's all
going great and you think, oh myGod, in this world of shit, I
think I found somebody.
This is like heaven, as theangels from fucking heaven just
fell and this is a normal,whatever it is that you're
(09:51):
looking for, and you found it.
And then all of a sudden, Idon't know, they disappear, or
they say they got back withtheir ex, or they just say
you're not for them.
After six months of consistency.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It doesn't really matter.
It doesn't matter, they're justnot with you, right?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And then you're like, oh, but why?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Or maybe you don't even get that.
Why?
Maybe they?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
just pull back and you have absolutely no idea why
You're not going to get the whyYou're not going to get it.
You just got to sit there andsay you know what I didn't like
this behavior.
It's emotionally immature, it'snot for me, it's not what I'm
looking for.
They're red flags.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And they did you a favor.
Bye, Felicia.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And you got to you don't keep going for the why and
then get into the situationthat we're going to talk about
today.
Okay, so the topic today?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yes.
So the topic today, yes, thetopic today so there you go is
why do they stay right?
Because, if I had a dime forevery time, because I do
speaking engagements all overthe place, I do presentations, I
do trainings for clinicalservice providers, and if I had
a dime for every time, somebodysaid but I don't understand, why
don't they just leave, like,just go, just leave, like you
(11:04):
know, and they get alljudgy-wudgy about it.
And I get it.
I get why it looks like that,but here's how.
So here's also what I say about.
It is okay, and I always addressthe group and I say how many of
you guys have ever stayed in ajob?
You hate it.
And everybody, I said, justbecause you needed to pay the
rent or because of any reason,any reason, you stay in a job
(11:27):
you hate.
How many of you have done that?
And they all, like every person.
90% of them are always likethis, where they start to look
away from me because they knowthey're busted right.
So I say, okay, how many of youhave maintained a relationship
with a family member a cousin,crazy, aunt Sue, how many of you
have maintained a relationshipwith a family member a cousin
(11:48):
crazy and sue like because youhave to, or it's the right thing
to do, like I'm italian, I wasraised by an italian family
circus.
If I had, I also, if I, on adaily basis, I get told but,
jennifer, it's the right thingto do, you know, and it's like,
well, screw that, screw that.
It's the right thing to do.
Because if I'm exactly, I haveno, I owe you nothing.
I don't care who you are, whereyou come from, how long, I owe
(12:10):
you nothing, right?
So, and because if it affects,I mean, listen, it's different
if you're talking about a familymember who's loving and
whatever, and it's justuncomfortable.
Maybe they're ill or whatever,that's it.
But if this is detrimental toyou, I mean I've sat by family
members' bedsides and it's thelast place that I want to be,
but that's the right thing to doand that's love.
Yeah, if you're a jerk face,you know I'm not.
(12:34):
You're not invited to my table,you're not.
Oh, and they know that, becauseI host all the holidays,
because none of my sisters cancook, so so you're not, you're
not invited.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, that's my table , and that should be the thing.
This is my table, but now howdo we get to?
They're invited to the tableand now they can't get out of it
and they're being abused.
It's a long road.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And the disclaimer here, before we go down this
road, is, like I always say, wecould sit here from now until
next Christmas describingspecific individual scenarios.
That's not the goal.
The goal is for you to listento this conversation and train
(13:19):
your mind and your ear a littlebit to overlay some of the
scenarios and the sentiment andthe red flags and all of that
stuff into a situation, becausedon't say to yourself, well,
that specific thing neverhappened to me, so I'm OK, it's
not abusive.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Because every situation isdifferent and we always say, if
(13:40):
you have met one survivor ofdomestic violence, you have only
met one survivor of domesticviolence, because every single
situation is different.
But in this conversation, forargument's sake, because we are
human and we do like things inneat little boxes and sections,
we're going to talk about threespecific areas of the most
(14:02):
common reasons Not the only, forthe record, not the only, but
the most common.
So we're going to go throughfirst the emotional situation,
then we're going to go throughthe financial situation which
frankly, especially in our area,is a huge problem right.
And then the safety, thephysical safety issues and we
(14:24):
were chatting before we startedrecording.
There is going to be a contentwarning.
This is my due diligence as aservice provider.
Some of this stuff inparticular when you get into the
safety stuff, you know it couldbe very activating of trauma.
It could be activating to you.
I don't like the word triggerbecause it gets overused, but we
(14:46):
say this could activate somefeelings in you that you're
gonna have to maybe deal with.
If you're in the same situationor in you know for whatever yeah
.
So just a content warning there.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
If you're in healthy relationships, like for me, it's
not activating anything Correctand I'm fortunate in that it
doesn't activate much in meeither.
However just have to do my duediligence.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So the emotional aspect, and you know this is
something that's superchallenging because, you know,
going back to the why, goingback to needing hardcore proof
or reasons, right, like, like,I'm a very logical person, I am
very into logistics, I you knowphysicality of things and okay,
(15:36):
you know, let's build a thinghere, like emotion's not logical
.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Right, that's nothing to do with logic.
It's literally the opposite.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's literally the opposite, which, frankly, in my
opinion, is one of the reasonswhy it's so challenging for the
strongest and most intelligentof individuals.
Do you know what I'm saying?
And I'm going to say words likeindividuals, people, persons,
clients, whatever, because thisis not just men, right, like
this.
Domestic violence, as areminder, does not discriminate.
It is an indiscriminatepredator.
(16:07):
It's like a cancer.
It doesn't care who you are,where you come from, how much
you make, whether you know whereyou live, what kind of car is
in your driveway or where if yougo to church on Sundays.
So I also challenge folks, whenwe're having these
conversations, to sort of wipeyour mind of that too.
Do you know what I'm saying?
(16:27):
Like there's anybody can be avictim and anybody can be a
predator, and that's a huge sortof message that I like to get
out there.
So one of the things that yousee is on the emotional aspect
is so the effects of the, so theactions of the abusive party,
(16:48):
with the yelling and the namecalling and the gaslighting.
And let me tell you something Iwould never fall for.
That, says every female everright, says everybody.
I would never fall for that.
Oh, but you will, because it'ssort of like that Stockholm
syndrome kind of a thing.
It's like the brainwashing.
(17:09):
If you can imagine what it'slike, how people get into cults
which, fun fact, the majority ofcult members are actually
highly intelligent,well-educated, well-resourced
individuals You'd be amazed.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But I find that the people that enter the cults even
someone like Leah Remy that wasin Scientology, there's
something broken.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
She was groomed from childhood.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
There's something broken.
Well, I don't like the wordbroken.
Melissa, don't you roll youreyes at me?
It's broken it's not broken,it's a vulnerability it's a
vulnerability and show me ahuman being that doesn't have
some vulnerabilities absolutely.
We all have vulnerabilities andthen the predators go in and
(17:54):
prey on it, on the lowvulnerability, because anybody
with a high standard.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I mean I, it's just you.
You would.
I'm not that vulnerable.
You would never get that farwith me.
The minute you turned aroundand you were like go fuck
yourself.
Blah, blah, blah, blah and ithas happened to me.
Listen, my ex was like that.
No, I know my ex was like that.
He we're done.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
My ex was like that we're done when it got to that.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I made the plan.
Well, everybody has theirbreaking point.
I've discussed this.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I made the plan, I saved my money and then that was
that and I had a plan and I gotout of it, but everybody's
breaking point is different too.
It's like when you talk aboutpeople who, if you're a part of
that world at all, umeverybody's um um rock bottom,
(18:41):
absolutely, but it depends howvulnerable you are and how alone
you are have vulnerabilitiesabsolutely, and abusive parties
will prey on it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
They they zero in well, they would never get away
with it too much with the otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
If you have a big, huge family and you're, you know
, rather than somebody thatdoesn't have a family and not a
lot of friends, it's easier toprey on the person that doesn't
have the family and not a lot offriends.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I don't think so.
That's actually not true Thanthe other.
It's actually not true at all,Melissa.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'll be honest with you and I understand where
you're coming fly with my father, like my father would be over
the house.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I got a big italian family circus too but, we're not
on top of each other every day.
We yes, we are in each other'sbusiness.
We are in each other's business.
My mother's over the housethree, four days a week with my
kids.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I get it my dad's over two times a week you live
with your dad like.
Would that guy ever be able tocome into your house and be like
allison?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
let me grab your hair , but they don't come in.
Okay, so let's talk about that,so they don't come in and start
like that.
That's the difference, don'tforget.
They start with.
There's a reason why everybodyknows the phrase breadcrumbing
right, of course.
And I say this in presentationsall the time?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, not day one, but day, you know, 800.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Not necessarily so Necessarily.
So here's why.
But what happens between dayone and day 800?
A lot.
They are literally grooming you.
Everybody understands now theterm grooming, right, that is
what they do.
Okay, so the emotional aspecthere, because by the time it
gets to the point, it'sdangerous from day one to day
800.
Let's talk about day two to day799.
(20:11):
Let's talk about that, right.
Okay, because what if I said toyou so like Allison, you walked
in this morning, I'm like shelooks fabulous.
I said to myself and I love theglasses, and I think you're
welcome and and I love and Ikind of want you to take me
shopping.
But the point is, is that youknow you, you present you, but I
mean you both present, don'tget me wrong like very, and as
(20:34):
do I very, forward facing, verygrounded.
There's a strength about us,right.
But what happened the minute Icomplimented you, which I'm
going to say for the record- was100% sincere, by the way,
because I do love your glassesand I wish I could get away with
something like that.
Thank you, but you immediately,you smiled, you giggled, and
(20:56):
that's just a colleague sayingand complimenting.
So now add to the fact thatmaybe one of your
vulnerabilities if you, I'msorry, I'm picking on you, but I
haven't recorded with you yet,so I'm totally picking on you.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No, I'm into this.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So, like now, say perhaps one of your
vulnerabilities is your quirkystyle that maybe other folks
have maybe put you down for ornot appreciated.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Let's go that far.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Not appreciated.
Maybe your parents aren't ahuge fan of quirky glasses and
they think that you should looklike an accountant.
I don't know.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Okay, so now, as a potentiallove interest, I have
complimented something and Ihave noticed, by the way,
because these individuals aremaster manipulators, I'm going
to, I'm going to, I'm going toroll back the tape to Dirty John
, because listen to that podcast, don't watch the Netflix thing.
(21:48):
It's horrible because it makesher look like pathetic and I
hated it.
The podcast on Wondery, though,that was produced by Wondery is
fantastic, because it makes avery clear picture about how
successful she was, or is.
But when he came along so nowhere I have noticed, because I'm
(22:09):
a master manipulator, that yousmiled and giggled, right.
So now I'm going to love Bob,you know, and now you're going
to think it's cute becauseyou're caught up in it.
Now, what happens if, a weekfrom now, or a month from now,
or whenever I see an opening?
Now I'm going to say but don'tyou think those frames would be?
(22:29):
They would be so much prettierwith your brown eyes if they
were in like a blue instead ofthe black.
And on one hand, you're like,maybe because that's very gray
area right, and you've beendating for a couple of weeks and
he's he or she's been socomplimentary, so I don't mean
to assume yeah um, he or she'sbeen so complimentary and what
(22:50):
have you?
and then you're like all allright, maybe.
And then the next thing nowcuts you day 47, day 102.
And now you're in an argumentabout something, and now he or
she turns around and says andwhat is with these stupid
glasses?
I told you I don't like theblank, the black frames.
(23:11):
Now, this is arguably asuperficial and sort of very
simplistic example.
But that's what's so gradual,and it is so gradual and
insidious.
Now, that's one thing, that outof a hundred in the last days
that you know the one, the oneor two things that like hit you
(23:32):
the wrong way and like give youthat feeling in your gut.
But he's done like a here,she's done like a hundred cool
things and like it's fine andit's so what?
It's just my glasses, what'sthe big deal?
But you know, exit glasses andput in any thousands of things,
(23:53):
whether they be about yourphysical appearance, whether
they be about, um, the work,family that you do the family.
I mean because I got news foryou my big fat italian family is
a, is a target sometimesbecause I get told I've been
told by guys, so I want nothingto do with that.
Okay, bye, felicia.
Good luck to you, because we'rea package deal, so, like you
(24:16):
would think, yes on one hand,but like I've had conversations
where they're like I would neverput up with your family, I'm
like, well then, godspeed, dudebecause you're out of here.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Well, that's my point .
So you're not that vulnerable,but that's if they say it in the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Don't say I'm not vulnerable, Melissa, because I
got news for you.
Do you know?
We get phone calls fromclinicians.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
We get phone calls to our hotline from social work.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No but the minute, I think that I'm screwed.
Yeah, but you just said If theysaid that in the beginning, now
what happens in the examplewith Allison?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So if they said it, six months later you'd be like
oh okay, forget my family.
Of course not, Right?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But not necessarily because they're not going to
come right out and say it atfirst.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
That's the emotional manipulation, Because you don't
even realize by the time you'rein that form.
You don't even realize it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
No matter how.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, you are correct on that but my ex tried that
with me and I and I completelyignored it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So he found 700 other things to torture you on 100.
But you see what I'm saying.
So that's the other reasonthey're smart.
Don't say I'm not vulnerablebecause of any given reason,
well, I'm saying with the familybecause, absolutely, my family
is off limits 100.
Actually, the running joke in myfamily is that if you don't
make it through, because you'renot truly accepted until you
(25:41):
make it through christmas evebecause it is such a circus and
then, if you're lucky, you'llget included in the group chat,
and by lucky I mean god help youright because it is with the
family chat right exactly yeahso, but my point is is that, no,
that is not a vulnerability forme, because that's a deal
breaker, um, but I have othersand I would be foolish, that's I
(26:02):
would be foolish to think thatyou're
but too foolish to think that Idon't.
So there's, you know.
And then let's also not forgetthat this world is lonely.
So there's factors like so I'mjust going through, I have a
slide, um, here I'm gonnaactually send to the producer,
send to you guys, um, after thisconversation, a handful of sort
of illustrations of what we'retalking about super helpful so,
(26:24):
um, I have to adjust them alittle bit because this is, um,
an animated powerpoint, so Ihave to just go in and mess with
it.
But, like the, the visual hereis overlapping concentric
circles of all of these things.
There's loneliness, there'sdepression, because what happens
is there's the offender'sactions right towards you as an
(26:45):
individual, and then there's themental health consequences of
that in this world, because,look, I do have a big Italian
family, but you know what?
We're all professionals,there's kids, we all work, and I
can go weeks without.
I mean, okay, maybe not bigItalian family, but you know
what?
We're all professionals,there's kids, we all work, and I
can go weeks without.
I mean, okay, maybe not in thefamily chat, because we're not
that lucky, but I could go weeksfrom not seeing them.
I can go weeks with not hearingthem.
I mean, if it's OctoberDomestic Violence Awareness
(27:08):
Month I don't see them.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
In October I'm running around Long Island like
a gypsy like a gypsy, like youknow what I'm saying, like I you
know.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So, um, I think women have to be, then, um, aware of
these slow roll, the slow bone,that's the slow burn.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Well, that's the goal of this conversation, so that
they don't get engulfed by itand end up six months down,
eight months, two years, threeyears down ten years down the
road and wasting their liveswith somebody.
But you know what?
Also?
You know, I always say this onthe podcast Men are, you know,
and it goes for women toothey're supposed to treat you
(27:49):
well 100% they are supposed totreat you well.
I love this conversationAnybody that's not treating you
well Anybody who's not treatingyou well.
Anybody who's not treating youwell, anybody that's critiquing
your outfits, your glasses, yourfamily, your this, your that.
They're not for you.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Your interests your job, your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
My ex used to be like your hair has to be so long
your nails have to yes it does.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
The answer is yes, and I love that.
The answer is yes, and I lovethat the answer is yes, and
flutter off.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Go to the girl who wears her hair in a bun every
day.
It's not for me.
You will never see me with ahair in a bun like Allison, but
that's okay.
That doesn't make it right,wrong or indifferent.
You have to ask yourself why.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Especially in the beginning.
Why should they like my longhair Right?
Especially in the beginning?
Because I owe you nothing, butnot even in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Let's say, you're dating somebody for a year.
And after that year they startsaying you know what?
I don't like navy blue on youand I hate your necklaces and I
think your hair is ugly and Idon't like blue eyes anymore.
Can you wear contacts?
I don't care what it is, you'retoo fat, you're too thin,
you're too this.
Fucking.
Leave bye, felicia, bye, like.
(28:59):
Don't try to change from navyblue to stripes if you don't
want I mean, if you don't want.
Once in a blue moon, I don'tlike a stripe.
Wear the polka dots.
It looks better on you, that'sokay.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's not go crazy but there's also but that's a
great conversation because partof what we talk about a lot, too
, is the balance, because I'vehad partners say look, I'm with
my partner, I value theiropinion To a point To a point.
Is this dress better or is thatdress?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I mean I say this all the time with women who you
know they defer to their guysabout the perfume they wear.
Absolutely and that's okay,yeah but you know, I guess the
point is at what point do youfeel uncomfortable?
Does it not sit right with you?
So, and that's the that's agreat point.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
So here's the end.
Well, here's our answer, andI'm not going to say that answer
.
But one of the answers is whenit feels wrong.
So like if I said to you youknow what those stripes look
great, but I really do lovethose, and you're like I'm
wearing the stripes, okay, let'sgo, that's fine.
That's fine Because like no isa complete sentence.
Well, so is yes, are you reallywearing that?
(30:07):
Yes, yes, I am.
Are you really doing that?
Yes, right that, that, yes,right, that's I mean I'm famous
for that too, because I, I'm,I'm big, I'm big, right of
course, within that's the alsothing, like, is it about the
partner and we go.
We got into this a little bitmore in the very first episode,
so I'm going to defer to that.
Go back and listen to our veryfirst episode, because we talk
about the intricacies of thebalance between what is um, a
(30:33):
healthy disagreement right and ahealthy disagreement right and
a healthy recovery from adisagreement or even an argument
, because, listen, we're NewYorkers, we're firing.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
There's gonna be arguments.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I think that's so important to be able to
differentiate between the twoand that can go back to our
first conversation and healthycommunication too.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Here's another thing that I'm going to assume that
these men or women that arepredators like this do not have
a healthy way of communicating,and I think you can see that
right off the bat Listen, yourgut goes immediately.
(31:12):
And not only that, but ladies,you know, once again, we always
talk about this there are redflags.
Okay, if you start dating a guyand you say, hey, listen, you
know what.
I need this from you to feelsecure, I need, you know, a few
texts during the day, maybe atthe end of the day.
You're busy, I'm busy, you knowit's, we're in three months
(31:35):
touch base touch base.
It's a call at the end of thenight and that man completely
ignores that.
And the next day.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
You don't get it, you don't get that's not an
unreasonable request, right?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
and you don't get a, you don't get.
That's not an unreasonablerequest, right?
And you don't get a text.
Or I need to see you.
You know, two days a week.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We're headed towards a relationship right, right, you
know, we make time.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Two days time, two days, reasonable request
reasonable request and the manjust ignores it.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Right, ladies, that's a red flag, that's a red flag
you should not chase anybody.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You should not have to chase anybody they're not
interested, interested in what'smaking you uncomfortable, what
easily can make you happy, yourwants, your needs.
They're not putting enough time.
These are all red flags to seethat the person is either not
that interested, not a goodcommunicator.
If you say, hey, I feel likesomething's bothering you,
(32:26):
what's bothering you, andthey're like I'm not talking
about this, these are all signsof unhealthy, immature
communication.
A person should be able to turnaround to you and be like, hey,
listen, you know what I gotback with my ex.
Or hey, listen, just healthycommunication and even hard
communication and all of thesethings Don't go forward.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Move back Is the foundation for what happens,
right?
So what happens when you do goforward?
What happens when you are inthe relationship Just to bring
it back to the clinical, thebehavioral, health side of this
from a domestic violencestandpoint is when you ignore
all of this and when youexperience what Melissa is
(33:06):
describing Not the good guy,yeah, um.
So you know when, when you gothrough, um, when you ignore all
of that.
And we also talk a little bitmore about red flags.
We could do a whole, we coulddo 75 episodes on red flags, but
the it's itags, but there'sloneliness, there's fear.
(33:28):
All of this is so layered andthere's an intersectionality in
between those types of abuse andthere's also a bit of a sunk
cost fallacy.
Like, look, none of us aregetting any younger, like let's
face it we're not in our 20s.
I've devoted all this time yeah,and by the way, that could be a
(33:49):
week for some people, because,again, everybody's baseline,
everybody's vulnerabilities,everybody's standards are
different it could be Like twomonths in is huge for me when I
haven't had something in a longtime.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right, exactly, and everybody and right
(34:33):
no-transcript peace, or wouldyou rather be miserable with you
continuing to tell this personyou know what, whatever it is
that you?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
need the devil, you know, melissa, the devil you
know is better than the devilyou don't.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And here's why, see, I can't live like that.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Because we also don't want a victim shame here?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
No, I'm not.
But I'm just saying, ladies, ifyou tell them I need Hint water
, because I love Hint water andI just need to hydrate every day
, or I get a migraine andthey're out at the supermarket
and they don't bring you anyhint water and they're like fuck
you, I hate hint water.
You'll drink I don't knowcoffee and you don't drink.
(35:20):
You'd rather live with this sonof a bitch because you spent a
year.
Do you know what I'm trying?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
to say the pain, the daily pain, melissa what you're
describing now, and I get it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I appreciate your passion and I appreciate it, but
that is the point.
You need a man that's going tobring you hemp water.
That's all well and good.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
That's all well and good.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Here's what also has happened at this point you've
normalized it.
Okay, now also I'm gonna remindyou, but we're here to tell
them it's not normal.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I understand that this is what?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
what we're talking about is why they stay, yeah,
why they don't leave.
Okay, so what you're describingis what all of us see on the
outside, on the, and you're,frankly, a perfect.
This is a perfect example backand forth, especially that's why
I do it especially because you,having been, you having been
through it, which you're veryopen about, and I so appreciate
(36:18):
that.
But you gotta understand again,everybody's baseline is
different, right, everybody'srock bottom is different and let
me tell you, the devil you knowis better than the devil you
don't.
Whether it's two months, twodays, two weeks, two years or 25
years, we have had clients comeinto the shelter 30 years apart
, same marriage.
(36:39):
We have had clients call usafter because here's what and
this is a rare, because I don'twant to scare anybody, but it
does happen which is why youhave to be real careful on the
apps.
We've had clients come in.
They've only been dating a weekor they only met a couple times
.
Now, those guys, thoseindividuals, that's like some
criminal minds type stuff, likeit does happen, but you got to
be careful because it doeshappen.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Watch out Allison.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I've you know, I've identified some scary things,
yeah so let's so now also theguilt right, because part of the
gaslighting and part of theemotional manipulation is that
you are.
It's your fault, it's my fault.
I've because because, geez,allison, I don't really think it
was such a big deal that youcould have gotten.
I mean, you could have gone onany number of websites and
(37:24):
gotten blue frames, why, youknow, I told you that I don't
you that you're such a beautifulwoman, but I just don't think
the black frames are.
They don't fit you real well.
I really would rather love tosee those brown eyes framed by
blue.
I mean, why wouldn't you justdo that for me?
Is that too much to ask?
Boom yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I could see it really easily, so easy yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
So easy, right.
And then they minimize it, andthen I'm like go fuck yourself,
Melissa James.
Melissa focus.
All right, I'm focusing.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I'm going to have someone, I mean I.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No but you might say here's what though Let me also
say but that's like perfect,like it's great for us both to
be here because she's the yinI'm the yang she's like.
I can see how I would want togo get the blue and I'm like I
can see how I'd tell you to fuckyourself.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I'm just going to say Allison she was much better
behaved when you weren't here.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I'm just saying If you go back to our very first
episode she was much betterbehaved.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Listen you gotta bring the y.
I said screw you on X.
Right Again, though, theseindividuals are master.
Okay, they're going to leavethat alone then.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
And that's going to be another thing, and then
they're going to find somethingelse.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And then your guard is down right.
Because, you think you're a bigtough guy and I totally put
this guy in his place.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Oh, you think you're a big tough guy and I totally
put this guy in his place.
Oh, you think so?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, well, they keep coming at you, and then they
come at you with something else.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
And there is shame, so annoying.
There is shame.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And then you start to blame yourself.
And then, by the way, whathappens when a friend of yours
says I don't, so what's the bigdeal?
I'll send, get blue frames.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
They.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
They're like $10 on like three sites right, and that
is again, and that's accidental.
When we talk about safeinterventions and we talk about
how to support friends andfamily that are going through
this, we do a whole section onvictim blaming.
Well, hold on, because, on onehand, we would never what were
you wearing?
We would never do that.
(39:24):
Obviously, however, there areaccidental, um, um, subtle forms
of victim blaming that weaccidentally invert like we
don't realize.
Like because again, hey, allison, that partner of yours that you
just started dating a couplemonths ago, yeah, but they were
so funny, like, so what?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
get the blue frames who.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Because, we don't realize either, because it's
that subtle.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I think it's helpful.
What I did was I wrote it down.
No, really, I'm trying to helpyou, ladies out.
I wrote it down.
When I tried to get back withmy ex right, I thought for my
kids, my whatever Sure you havethoughts.
Anyway, I love the smirk onyour face Disaster.
No, but listen, this is what Idid, because he did that what
(40:08):
you're describing my ex did tome.
So I took a piece of paper andit lasted, I think, two months,
maybe three months at most, andevery time he did something like
that it was why do you have togo to the gym at 3.30?
You can't go at 6 am like therest of the population, like
every other normal mom whosekids get off the-.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Wait, why is that a problem for you?
But I wrote it down.
Yeah, gym.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Right, 3.30.
Why do your nails have to beshaped like that?
Do they really have to bepointy?
And listen, I'm just going totell you what he said to me
Puerto Rican, like black, likethat's what you, oh my God what
a racist thing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
So I wrote down what is that?
So I wrote down nails.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
He wrote why does your hair have?
Why?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
do your extensions have to be?
You should have wrote down therace of a bitch.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Well, wait, why does your hair have to be so long.
Melissa, you got to get the 22inch extensions.
You can't get the 18.
Like it really has to be allthe way down.
I wrote down here by the timethe three months was over.
I still have that.
I had 35 things.
I bet you missed a bunch too,and I still have that piece of
(41:15):
paper in my nightstand I'llnever get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Good for you, I love that, but what I'm trying to say
, ladies, if you're saying theycome small, you know you're
right.
I'm busy with my kids, I'm busywith my friends, I'm busy with
life.
I'm busy with my kids Becausethen all together it adds up.
I'm busy with my friends.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I'm busy with life, I'm busy with my job.
You're right, I would forget alot of them.
Yeah, ladies, take a piece ofpaper like I did.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
That's really smart.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Take a pen.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And every time he says something to you like you
say, I just want to disclaimhere because I'm a service
provider.
I think that's a fantasticexercise.
Disclaimer make sure he can'tfind it.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, that's true, oh , he wasn't living with me.
He wasn't.
No, in your situation, that'sfine.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
But, if he or she found that it could be very,
very dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I read it to him so just as a.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Melissa At the end of the three months.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I'm just saying.
I read it to him and told himwhy I didn't want to be with him
Come on.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Focus Focus, all right, so I Write it down.
Write it down or in some way,shape or form, but keep it safe
because that's a very dangerousthing, Hide it in a sock or
something.
So you know, and here's, let'salso not forget this with the
cycle of, and because they'renot, you know, all the time is
(42:30):
hope, don't forget.
Hope is horrible, hope ischallenging, hope can be
dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
So, like we, I don't really like the word hope.
I don't like it because hopealso insinuates that it is out
of your control, which, by theway it is.
You cannot control.
Hope is big.
You cannot control how anybodyelse acts.
No, you cannot control if he orshe will change.
You can only control yourself.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
And here's another thing, and they say this all the
time on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Here she goes, the big mouth.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
No wait, you love me, she loves me.
Here's another thing, ladies,she loves me.
Here's another thing, ladies,and this happens.
You see this all over tiktokold.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I see this instagram reels everything.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So this is related.
Relatable women hope the man isgoing to be the man they met.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That's a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
True, not the man that is presenting himself today
and ladies, you see it all overthe place.
You cannot be going on the themastermind, yes, manipulator, or
who knows if mercury was inretrograde or what the hell was
going on.
I thank the lord it killed meum, you can't go on that man,
(43:44):
but you have to go on what iscurrent.
So hope, forget about hope.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Current Current as it .
What is true I?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
always say to people.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
What is true today and one of my bosses, one of our
bosses' favorite sayings iswhen someone shows you who they
are, believe it, believe themthe first time, and that is key,
because that hope is.
so.
And, by the way, and I want youto put a pin in your, I want
(44:15):
you to for a second, what makesyou think that the victim in
this situation is not in lovewith this partner?
Because, don't kid yourself,because they're the partner.
The abusive party isn't abusive24 7.
So part of that hope aspect isa they're hoping they go back to
(44:40):
that first person, like.
I saw an article recently thatsaid something to the effect of
um, um, the person you marriedis not the person you're
divorcing.
And I was like, what a perfectway to say that, because it's
the truth and you spend so muchtime hoping, and part of the
reason that you have that hope,by the way, is because that's
(45:01):
what they're telling you.
Because when you say to them,babe, like you, come on, we used
to X, y and Z, or we used to belike this and we used to be
like that.
Well, guess what?
You just handed them Right.
I'm not blaming you, becausethat's a common conversation in
a, in what you would think.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
But this is how easy it is for them to find ways.
But that's find ways to likeI'll.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
So I'll convince him or her that I'll go back to I
don't know the romantic gestureslike, and they'll do it for a
minute.
Or I'll go back to doing thehousework and they'll do it for
a minute, or I'll go back tobeing nice to your mother or
something right.
All of the things I'll go backto.
Um, I'll go back to cookingdinner, whatever it is it
(45:45):
doesn't matter, just a littletaste of the hope and, again, as
as as people, as I really look,it's a screwed up world out
there, but I really believe thatpeople are good, like meaning,
like they meet, like so, likewhen you're with somebody like
that, like you and the part, theuh sort of uh client, the
potential client, the victim Idon't like the word victim, but
the the, if it's happening, it'syou're technically the
(46:06):
potential client, the victim Idon't like the word victim, but
if it's happening, you'retechnically being victimized.
So the victim in that situation, like most people, like they
want to see the good, they wantto believe and, again, they want
to believe that they didn't getmanipulated into.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, but you did Right and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
And it's not your fault.
No, it's not your fault,because they are master
manipulators.
Again, I'm going to go back to,I'm going to push this until
the day I dirty John the Wonderypodcast.
So good.
So that is a huge, huge part ofthe emotional aspect.
Now I'm also going to add insome other things here that are
real important.
Um things here that are realimportant.
(46:50):
Um disabilities there's a high,high, high rate of um abusive
situations in couples where thevictim has a disability, or,
frankly, the abuser, becausesometimes that's the they play
the victim yeah, and the otheris the caretaker exactly exactly
so.
Like, whether you're a caretakeror your abuser is your
caretaker, there's a high, solike, so, like, logistically,
where are you going?
Where are you going?
What are you doing, right?
How are you leaving that?
(47:11):
How are you going to just leaveRight?
Societal pressure Do not takefor granted that there is still
societal pressure To be coupled,to be coupled to have the kids.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like, look, I'm in a veryfemale-dominated family.
It's very funny, there's a lotof females.
(47:32):
So you know, but you know, atthe end of the day, like there's
still a little bit of.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, gee, it's nice being,it's some nice and so, yeah, and
, and, and many of us not myfamily, but like many of us
aren't too far removed from thegeneration that got.
(47:53):
I mean, I have colleagues thatare first generation born here.
Do not kid yourself about thesocietal norms that still have
an underlying threat it's a lotbigger than we think it is.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
It's huge, and it's not just in the immigrant
population, by the way it's notjust in yeah, it's not just I
mean, we do.
It is more challenging for them.
I will tell you, I've hadplenty of conversations on the
hotline with individuals who areeither recent immigrants or
first generation born here andthey're still arranged marriage.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I have had conversations, I've had women in
my shelter who have beenphysically assaulted within days
of their arranged marriage.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
so it is a thing still, and I'm not judging
anybody's, I'm not.
This has nothing to do with it.
No, I'm not judging, I'm merelysaying the facts about, because
these cultures they've beenaround for thousands of years
and they are practiced in ahealthy and celebratory and
respectful way by millions ofpeople.
But do not take for grantedsocietal norms being a pressure
for any given individual in thesituation.
(48:58):
And then, of course, you know,melissa, like we talked about a
little bit, is the kids Right?
Right, you are constantly goingto question yourself.
Here's what I will tell you Evenif the kids are not, I'm going
to remind you guys, even if thekids are not being directly
abused themselves, even if thisindividual is, on face value,
(49:22):
parent of the year, on facevalue parent of the year right
and the soccer coach and goes toevery school play and does game
nights with the I mean even ifthey are a world-class parent
just being in the study show.
The science shows that justbeing present in the home and
witnessing the abuse those kidsare going to have the same exact
(49:46):
side effects if they were beingdirectly abused themselves okay
so let's, let's sort of not, um, let's not sort of take for
granted what happens to kids whojust yeah, living in an abusive
environment, yeah just theenvironment and the other thing.
I I think this is the thirdtime in your show I've told this
(50:07):
analogy but the frog in theboiling water, right?
If you boil water and throw afrog in it, it bounces right out
.
Okay, that's this one over herewith the F-bomb, fuck this,
fuck that I'm out of here.
Right?
But if you put a frog in coldwater, and slowly heat it.
(50:28):
What happens?
It stays, that's right, and thefrog is cooked, and that is
something that you cannot takefor granted.
Also, as we discussed,everybody's vulnerabilities are
different.
The minute you think you don'thave vulnerabilities is the
minute that you're going to be,and it doesn't matter who you
(50:48):
are, where you come from.
We get phone calls from highpowered CEOs.
We get phone calls fromclinicians.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, it doesn't matter what you do or what color
skin you are, where you comefrom, no, but, I think that the
whole point of our podcast, too,is to show you the red flags,
if you call it, so you don't endup in the situation, absolutely
.
But also and then we have youto tell them how to get out of
(51:15):
the situation, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
And also for the sake of for this conversation, is to
also say to you if you're inthis situation, it's not your
fault.
No, there are a million, all ofthese reasons why it's tough to
get out.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
I get it.
We're here for you right.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Absolutely.
So that's like a and if youneed help, call.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Oh yeah, we're going to oh call, call, call call.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
We're going to have the number, we're going to have
the email.
Our hotline is 631-666-8833.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
And it's 24-7, seven days a week.
There used to be this old likein the 90s.
There was this old law firmthat had that.
You can call us New Year's Eveat midnight.
You can literally call us NewYear's Eve at midnight, and it's
confidential, it's free and youcan remain anonymous.
And while we're on the topic,real quick, because this is
actually a good stopping point,because I'm going to go into the
(52:11):
financial barriers you callthat a hotline.
You don't have to do anything,you don't have to know what to
say, you don't have to knowwhere to start.
Our counselors are trained.
I participate in training thehotline counselors and I train
them to say look, if a clientdoesn't know where to start, you
(52:32):
ask them.
Okay, maybe you want to startwith the most recent.
Maybe you want to start withthe most painful.
Right, it's our job.
It's our job to figure it out.
But you don't have to doanything, just make the phone
call, just have the conversationand then you can make an
informed.
Because I say that, like we, itis on, it is up to you, because
(52:56):
I say to people all the time ifyou're going to say no to
something, that's okay, butunderstand, know what you're
saying no to, because if itmight be a no right now, but it
might a month from now whensomething else clicks and you go
, wait a minute, I know myrights here.
Do you see what I'm saying?
And that's really important,and don't listen.
(53:17):
You know, one of my big issueswas during the COVID lockdown,
which we like to think is goneand behind us, but we are still
having fallout from it.
Domestic violence incidenceswent up in severity and quantity
by something like 30%.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, because everybody was home and everybody
lost their jobs, and we arestill seeing those numbers.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Our hotline calls have increased by 30% to 40% and
they have not gone down.
And one of the things that theoffenders did was they lied to
because other countries.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah, we had said this in our first one, in our
they lied and said that weweren't open or whatever.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Yeah, guess what?
We are always.
Oh wait, I don't care what'shappening, we hurricane, I don't
care, we are here, we believeyou and you are not alone.
Um, so that's actually a greatopportunity to start talking
about the financial aspects.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yes, and we're definitely going to talk about
that and the risks, the safetyrisks, the safety risks in a
part three.
Yay, so you will be back, butthank you so much, it's been so
helpful we had such helpfulinformation today, as usual.
Thank you, guys, so much forhaving me.
You're welcome and that isdating daycare, why they don't
(54:31):
leave and, of course, me puttingthe the pin in it just say go
fuck yourself, all right, andmove on anyway, all right, we
love you, we'll see you soon.
Bye.
Welcome to Dating.
Daycare where we help younavigate through the jungle of
jerks.
Today we have part two.
We have Jennifer Capizza backon Pronouncing that right, right
, no, help me.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Help me Capizza.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I always say it's like the candy, but I am not
nearly as sweet.
Such a bad host, that's fine,just don't call me late.
Help me, capezza.
I always say it's like thecandy, but I am not nearly as
sweet.
Such a bad host, it's fine,just don't call me late for
dinner.
And you're from Long Island.
Domestic Against DomesticViolence yes, so our domestic
violence shelter person is here.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We're not just a shelter.
I know we're going to get intothat later, but as a reminder,
so I'm the associate director,not later, but as a reminder.
So I'm the associate director.
I oversee a number of programs.
We have our safe harbor shelter, which was the first and still
is the most comprehensiveshelter on the island because we
(00:58):
also take pets.
We have that's huge, yeah.
So we got more into that in ourvery first episode.
But we have the largest advocacyprogram here on the island that
assists with court proceedings,custody et cetera.
We were actually the first inthe country to use that model
where we partner with police inthe police precincts.
Any day of the week you can getan advocate until like 9 or 11
o'clock at night.
We work alongside with police.
(01:19):
We have a counseling programadult and children group and
individual counseling programadult and children group and
individual.
We have a return to workfinancial like a vocational
financial literacy program.
So it's like resume writing andinterview prep, but it's also
credit repair, budgeting, all ofthat kind of stuff.
Everything.
You have everything there.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Everything that one would need if you wanted to get
out of your domestic violencesituation.
This is where you need tocontact, and today we're doing
part two of why they stay.
You know a lot of everybody.
I would think most people knowsomebody that is in an abusive
(02:01):
relationship, whether it'smentally or physically or all of
the above Right and a lot ofpeople, or all of the above
Right and a lot of people arelike but we don't understand,
why did they stay Like youremember when that Marilyn
Manson thing came out, did youever see that it wasn't my crowd
?
But I vaguely remember.
I mean, I didn't listen to hismusic either, but it was all
over the internet when it's likethe women came out and he like
(02:28):
severely abused them.
Oh, this I did not, yes, yes.
And so many people were likeyou're fit, like they were
famous women.
These weren't just women offthe street that needed money or
needed.
They didn't have a home andthey were like, why would you
ever stay with that maniac?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, it looks like I mean he definitely just by
looking at that guy I would say,yeah, he's a lunatic, but
anyway but also don't why todaythis is the why, but also, on
that note, even before that,though, don't forget, the first
national landmark domesticviolence case was the oj simpson
trial yeah, and the murder ofnicole brown simpson and ron
(03:03):
howard.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Ron howard ron no was it howard Simpson and Ron
Howard?
Ron Howard, ron, no, was itHoward?
No Poor guy, I know, yeah, ron,yeah, poor guy, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Let's Google it because I want to get that right
, because he deserves it.
That was a huge conversationand I've actually heard, if you
listen to, even their RonGoldman, ron Goldman, ron
Goldman.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Thank you, allison, you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So the murder of Nicole and Ron.
And I've heard 911 tapes wherebecause back then nobody really
knew what this was about and OJSimpson was revered and didn't
look like a lunatic rightEverybody loved him.
And I remember on the therecording hearing the 9-1-1
(03:48):
operator say um oh, you made himmad, oh gosh what happened.
And she goes yeah, I made himmad.
And you hear him in thebackground screaming and yelling
and banging like and she turnsaround and goes oh, jj, please,
the kids are sleeping and the911 operator's like wait, who is
(04:09):
that?
And she goes.
You know him.
It's OJ Simpson.
And the only reason I'll keepsaying his name is the offender
and naming him is because Ibelieve that you have to call it
, you have to say it.
And he was an evil.
Can we curse on the microphone?
Yeah, okay, of course he was anevil son of a bitch.
You know what I mean, but hedidn't look it Right and Nicole
(04:31):
stayed for a million reasons.
Right so that I always drawattention to that because a lot
of people saw that as mediafodder and tabloid stuff and
whatever.
But no Clinically.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Or puffy getting.
Yeah, right, oh, getting tolike 2025.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
26 right, yeah, right , so, and there's.
So.
Has things changed?
Things changed?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
no, things have not changed no, fortunately he's
getting off with murder.
I don't get literally literallygetting again.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So here we are in that situation.
So one of the reasons why thisis such an important
conversation is because there'sa million reasons why they don't
leave, why people don't leave Amillion and I'm going to go out
on a limb and say you won'tunderstand any of them.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Ever, unless you're in it.
It's very hard for our audiencethat this particular show is
not pertaining to.
That isn't healthy, non-toxicrelationships.
I will admit to you thatsometimes it is hard to
understand.
If I'm gonna come from theopposite end of the spectrum,
totally respect that it is hardto um to understand why,
(05:41):
somebody in such a horrific likewe all understand, like our
regular dating woes and problemsand issues and what we call,
you know, toxic People use thatall the time they throw that
around.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
yeah, you know, like your average jerk face, the
average jerk face Right, Likethere's so many men you know the
average man that puts in thetime, you know, three months.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Love bombs you, breadcrumbs you.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And then disappears, or just annoys you Right, or?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
doesn't want to put in the effort, but I want love.
I want love, but they don'twant to work at the relationship
.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
They don't want to put in the effort.
No, this is not that.
This is not that, this is notthat Right, but I will say that
you, that you know there arecircumstances that I think are
more relatable than others, forsure you know.
But let me also sort of pointout that one of the reasons it's
so challenging, um, and frankly, even, even and here's I'm
(06:35):
gonna look, even if you've beenthrough it um, sometimes it's
difficult to talk to a friend ora colleague and say but I don't
understand, like you, literallythe instinct is.
You know, you take for grantedthat we're in a world we were
just talking.
This weekend actually, I waswith some family and we were
sort of reminiscing about ourgrandparents who were married
(06:55):
together for 66 years and, onone hand and they were amazing
couple and we still tell storiesthey're gone 15, um, 15 and 20
years now, but sorry, 15 and 10years now.
But you know, my cousin and Iwere saying, like you know, we'd
like to think that it was 100because they were amazing
together.
But let's not forget it's ourlifetime that women were not
(07:16):
allowed to have credit cards ontheir own bank account they
couldn't have their own bankaccount.
It was illegal for us to divorce, like you know it was just we
take part of why marriageslasted right like we take for
granted, like you, if you decidethat you want to get divorced,
nowadays for the most part youcan just go fill out some
paperwork and you have everyright to get.
(07:37):
So you know.
The thing about it, too, isthat you know we're human beings
and by nature we're logical,we're problem solvers, right
Like that's in our survivalnature.
So we want to see a thing thatwe can put a pin on and say this
is the reason, or I need tounderstand, right, but that's
(07:59):
going to be different foreverybody and that's why this
conversation is so important isthat it's not, first of all,
it's not the same for everybodyand, by the way, sometimes any
individual person, sometimesit's not the same on any given
day, do you know what I'm sayingand I think that's why, at
least for me, I wanted to startthis podcast for women, because
(08:19):
I think that, given nature ofwomen to want the, why is the?
reason why we always want thewhy Right?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And don't get me wrong, I want the why too, just
as much as everybody else.
But I'm healed enough, matureenough emotionally tactful
enough to know that sometimesyou're not going to get the why.
Yeah, and that's why I'm herefor you, ladies.
And let me just go to thebeginning here of the
(08:51):
relationship, before all of thisstuff that you're going to
discuss even happens.
Sometimes you are never goingto get the why, and you know
what the why turns into.
Here's what the why turns into,because I tell you this all,
all the time, and I say thisover and over and over again
Sometimes the why just has to be.
It's not for me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
It's not.
For me, that's like a no is acomplete sentence, and that's
the case, by the way, whetheryou're in a long-term
relationship or you're justdating, or you're just chatting
with somebody on an app and, allof a sudden, they disappear.
The answer is they're just ajerk face or it's gone, like
nobody cares, like whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
And that's the easy, that's the very easy example of
something.
Let me give another example.
You're dating somebody for fouror five months and it's all
going great and you think, oh myGod, in this world of shit, I
think I found somebody.
This is like heaven, as theangels from fucking heaven just
fell and this is a normal,whatever it is that you're
(09:51):
looking for, and you found it.
And then all of a sudden, Idon't know, they disappear, or
they say they got back withtheir ex, or they just say
you're not for them.
After six months of consistency.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It doesn't really matter.
It doesn't matter, they're justnot with you, right?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And then you're like, oh, but why?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Or maybe you don't even get that.
Why?
Maybe they?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
just pull back and you have absolutely no idea why
You're not going to get the whyYou're not going to get it.
You just got to sit there andsay you know what I didn't like
this behavior.
It's emotionally immature, it'snot for me, it's not what I'm
looking for.
They're red flags.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And they did you a favor.
Bye, Felicia.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
And you got to you don't keep going for the why and
then get into the situationthat we're going to talk about
today.
Okay, so the topic today?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yes.
So the topic today, yes, thetopic today so there you go is
why do they stay right?
Because, if I had a dime forevery time, because I do
speaking engagements all overthe place, I do presentations, I
do trainings for clinicalservice providers, and if I had
a dime for every time, somebodysaid but I don't understand, why
don't they just leave, like,just go, just leave, like you
(11:04):
know, and they get alljudgy-wudgy about it.
And I get it.
I get why it looks like that,but here's how.
So here's also what I say about.
It is okay, and I always addressthe group and I say how many of
you guys have ever stayed in ajob?
You hate it.
And everybody, I said, justbecause you needed to pay the
rent or because of any reason,any reason, you stay in a job
(11:27):
you hate.
How many of you have done that?
And they all, like every person.
90% of them are always likethis, where they start to look
away from me because they knowthey're busted right.
So I say, okay, how many of youhave maintained a relationship
with a family member a cousin,crazy, aunt Sue, how many of you
have maintained a relationshipwith a family member a cousin
(11:48):
crazy and sue like because youhave to, or it's the right thing
to do, like I'm italian, I wasraised by an italian family
circus.
If I had, I also, if I, on adaily basis, I get told but,
jennifer, it's the right thingto do, you know, and it's like,
well, screw that, screw that.
It's the right thing to do.
Because if I'm exactly, I haveno, I owe you nothing.
I don't care who you are, whereyou come from, how long, I owe
(12:10):
you nothing, right?
So, and because if it affects,I mean, listen, it's different
if you're talking about a familymember who's loving and
whatever, and it's justuncomfortable.
Maybe they're ill or whatever,that's it.
But if this is detrimental toyou, I mean I've sat by family
members' bedsides and it's thelast place that I want to be,
but that's the right thing to doand that's love.
Yeah, if you're a jerk face,you know I'm not.
(12:34):
You're not invited to my table,you're not.
Oh, and they know that, becauseI host all the holidays,
because none of my sisters cancook, so so you're not, you're
not invited.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well, that's my table , and that should be the thing.
This is my table, but now howdo we get to?
They're invited to the tableand now they can't get out of it
and they're being abused.
It's a long road.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And the disclaimer here, before we go down this
road, is, like I always say, wecould sit here from now until
next Christmas describingspecific individual scenarios.
That's not the goal.
The goal is for you to listento this conversation and train
(13:19):
your mind and your ear a littlebit to overlay some of the
scenarios and the sentiment andthe red flags and all of that
stuff into a situation, becausedon't say to yourself, well,
that specific thing neverhappened to me, so I'm OK, it's
not abusive.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Because every situation isdifferent and we always say, if
(13:40):
you have met one survivor ofdomestic violence, you have only
met one survivor of domesticviolence, because every single
situation is different.
But in this conversation, forargument's sake, because we are
human and we do like things inneat little boxes and sections,
we're going to talk about threespecific areas of the most
(14:02):
common reasons Not the only, forthe record, not the only, but
the most common.
So we're going to go throughfirst the emotional situation,
then we're going to go throughthe financial situation which
frankly, especially in our area,is a huge problem right.
And then the safety, thephysical safety issues and we
(14:24):
were chatting before we startedrecording.
There is going to be a contentwarning.
This is my due diligence as aservice provider.
Some of this stuff inparticular when you get into the
safety stuff, you know it couldbe very activating of trauma.
It could be activating to you.
I don't like the word triggerbecause it gets overused, but we
(14:46):
say this could activate somefeelings in you that you're
gonna have to maybe deal with.
If you're in the same situationor in you know for whatever yeah
.
So just a content warning there.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
If you're in healthy relationships, like for me, it's
not activating anything Correctand I'm fortunate in that it
doesn't activate much in meeither.
However just have to do my duediligence.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So the emotional aspect, and you know this is
something that's superchallenging because, you know,
going back to the why, goingback to needing hardcore proof
or reasons, right, like, like,I'm a very logical person, I am
very into logistics, I you knowphysicality of things and okay,
(15:36):
you know, let's build a thinghere, like emotion's not logical
.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Right, that's nothing to do with logic.
It's literally the opposite.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's literally the opposite, which, frankly, in my
opinion, is one of the reasonswhy it's so challenging for the
strongest and most intelligentof individuals.
Do you know what I'm saying?
And I'm going to say words likeindividuals, people, persons,
clients, whatever, because thisis not just men, right, like
this.
Domestic violence, as areminder, does not discriminate.
It is an indiscriminatepredator.
(16:07):
It's like a cancer.
It doesn't care who you are,where you come from, how much
you make, whether you know whereyou live, what kind of car is
in your driveway or where if yougo to church on Sundays.
So I also challenge folks, whenwe're having these
conversations, to sort of wipeyour mind of that too.
Do you know what I'm saying?
(16:27):
Like there's anybody can be avictim and anybody can be a
predator, and that's a huge sortof message that I like to get
out there.
So one of the things that yousee is on the emotional aspect
is so the effects of the, so theactions of the abusive party,
(16:48):
with the yelling and the namecalling and the gaslighting.
And let me tell you something Iwould never fall for.
That, says every female everright, says everybody.
I would never fall for that.
Oh, but you will, because it'ssort of like that Stockholm
syndrome kind of a thing.
It's like the brainwashing.
(17:09):
If you can imagine what it'slike, how people get into cults
which, fun fact, the majority ofcult members are actually
highly intelligent,well-educated, well-resourced
individuals You'd be amazed.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But I find that the people that enter the cults even
someone like Leah Remy that wasin Scientology, there's
something broken.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
She was groomed from childhood.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
There's something broken.
Well, I don't like the wordbroken.
Melissa, don't you roll youreyes at me?
It's broken it's not broken,it's a vulnerability it's a
vulnerability and show me ahuman being that doesn't have
some vulnerabilities absolutely.
We all have vulnerabilities andthen the predators go in and
(17:54):
prey on it, on the lowvulnerability, because anybody
with a high standard.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
I mean I, it's just you.
You would.
I'm not that vulnerable.
You would never get that farwith me.
The minute you turned aroundand you were like go fuck
yourself.
Blah, blah, blah, blah and ithas happened to me.
Listen, my ex was like that.
No, I know my ex was like that.
He we're done.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
No, I know.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
My ex was like that we're done when it got to that.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I made the plan.
Well, everybody has theirbreaking point.
I've discussed this.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I made the plan, I saved my money and then that was
that and I had a plan and I gotout of it, but everybody's
breaking point is different too.
It's like when you talk aboutpeople who, if you're a part of
that world at all, umeverybody's um um rock bottom,
(18:41):
absolutely, but it depends howvulnerable you are and how alone
you are have vulnerabilitiesabsolutely, and abusive parties
will prey on it.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
They they zero in well, they would never get away
with it too much with the otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
If you have a big, huge family and you're, you know
, rather than somebody thatdoesn't have a family and not a
lot of friends, it's easier toprey on the person that doesn't
have the family and not a lot offriends.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I don't think so.
That's actually not true Thanthe other.
It's actually not true at all,Melissa.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'll be honest with you and I understand where
you're coming fly with my father, like my father would be over
the house.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I got a big italian family circus too but, we're not
on top of each other every day.
We yes, we are in each other'sbusiness.
We are in each other's business.
My mother's over the housethree, four days a week with my
kids.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I get it my dad's over two times a week you live
with your dad like.
Would that guy ever be able tocome into your house and be like
allison?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
let me grab your hair , but they don't come in.
Okay, so let's talk about that,so they don't come in and start
like that.
That's the difference, don'tforget.
They start with.
There's a reason why everybodyknows the phrase breadcrumbing
right, of course.
And I say this in presentationsall the time?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, not day one, but day, you know, 800.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Not necessarily so Necessarily.
So here's why.
But what happens between dayone and day 800?
A lot.
They are literally grooming you.
Everybody understands now theterm grooming, right, that is
what they do.
Okay, so the emotional aspecthere, because by the time it
gets to the point, it'sdangerous from day one to day
800.
Let's talk about day two to day799.
(20:11):
Let's talk about that, right.
Okay, because what if I said toyou so like Allison, you walked
in this morning, I'm like shelooks fabulous.
I said to myself and I love theglasses, and I think you're
welcome and and I love and Ikind of want you to take me
shopping.
But the point is, is that youknow you, you present you, but I
mean you both present, don'tget me wrong like very, and as
(20:34):
do I very, forward facing, verygrounded.
There's a strength about us,right.
But what happened the minute Icomplimented you, which I'm
going to say for the record- was100% sincere, by the way,
because I do love your glassesand I wish I could get away with
something like that.
Thank you, but you immediately,you smiled, you giggled, and
(20:56):
that's just a colleague sayingand complimenting.
So now add to the fact thatmaybe one of your
vulnerabilities if you, I'msorry, I'm picking on you, but I
haven't recorded with you yet,so I'm totally picking on you.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No, I'm into this.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So, like now, say perhaps one of your
vulnerabilities is your quirkystyle that maybe other folks
have maybe put you down for ornot appreciated.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Let's go that far.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Not appreciated.
Maybe your parents aren't ahuge fan of quirky glasses and
they think that you should looklike an accountant.
I don't know.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Okay, so now, as a potentiallove interest, I have
complimented something and Ihave noticed, by the way,
because these individuals aremaster manipulators, I'm going
to, I'm going to, I'm going toroll back the tape to Dirty John
, because listen to that podcast, don't watch the Netflix thing.
(21:48):
It's horrible because it makesher look like pathetic and I
hated it.
The podcast on Wondery, though,that was produced by Wondery is
fantastic, because it makes avery clear picture about how
successful she was, or is.
But when he came along so nowhere I have noticed, because I'm
(22:09):
a master manipulator, that yousmiled and giggled, right.
So now I'm going to love Bob,you know, and now you're going
to think it's cute becauseyou're caught up in it.
Now, what happens if, a weekfrom now, or a month from now,
or whenever I see an opening?
Now I'm going to say but don'tyou think those frames would be?
(22:29):
They would be so much prettierwith your brown eyes if they
were in like a blue instead ofthe black.
And on one hand, you're like,maybe because that's very gray
area right, and you've beendating for a couple of weeks and
he's he or she's been socomplimentary, so I don't mean
to assume yeah um, he or she'sbeen so complimentary and what
(22:50):
have you?
and then you're like all allright, maybe.
And then the next thing nowcuts you day 47, day 102.
And now you're in an argumentabout something, and now he or
she turns around and says andwhat is with these stupid
glasses?
I told you I don't like theblank, the black frames.
(23:11):
Now, this is arguably asuperficial and sort of very
simplistic example.
But that's what's so gradual,and it is so gradual and
insidious.
Now, that's one thing, that outof a hundred in the last days
that you know the one, the oneor two things that like hit you
(23:32):
the wrong way and like give youthat feeling in your gut.
But he's done like a here,she's done like a hundred cool
things and like it's fine andit's so what?
It's just my glasses, what'sthe big deal?
But you know, exit glasses andput in any thousands of things,
(23:53):
whether they be about yourphysical appearance, whether
they be about, um, the work,family that you do the family.
I mean because I got news foryou my big fat italian family is
a, is a target sometimesbecause I get told I've been
told by guys, so I want nothingto do with that.
Okay, bye, felicia.
Good luck to you, because we'rea package deal, so, like you
(24:16):
would think, yes on one hand,but like I've had conversations
where they're like I would neverput up with your family, I'm
like, well then, godspeed, dudebecause you're out of here.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Well, that's my point .
So you're not that vulnerable,but that's if they say it in the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Don't say I'm not vulnerable, Melissa, because I
got news for you.
Do you know?
We get phone calls fromclinicians.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
We get phone calls to our hotline from social work.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No but the minute, I think that I'm screwed.
Yeah, but you just said If theysaid that in the beginning, now
what happens in the examplewith Allison?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So if they said it, six months later you'd be like
oh okay, forget my family.
Of course not, Right?
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But not necessarily because they're not going to
come right out and say it atfirst.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
That's the emotional manipulation, Because you don't
even realize by the time you'rein that form.
You don't even realize it.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
No matter how.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yes, you are correct on that but my ex tried that
with me and I and I completelyignored it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So he found 700 other things to torture you on 100.
But you see what I'm saying.
So that's the other reasonthey're smart.
Don't say I'm not vulnerablebecause of any given reason,
well, I'm saying with the familybecause, absolutely, my family
is off limits 100.
Actually, the running joke in myfamily is that if you don't
make it through, because you'renot truly accepted until you
(25:41):
make it through christmas evebecause it is such a circus and
then, if you're lucky, you'llget included in the group chat,
and by lucky I mean god help youright because it is with the
family chat right exactly yeahso, but my point is is that, no,
that is not a vulnerability forme, because that's a deal
breaker, um, but I have othersand I would be foolish, that's I
(26:02):
would be foolish to think thatyou're
but too foolish to think that Idon't.
So there's, you know.
And then let's also not forgetthat this world is lonely.
So there's factors like so I'mjust going through, I have a
slide, um, here I'm gonnaactually send to the producer,
send to you guys, um, after thisconversation, a handful of sort
of illustrations of what we'retalking about super helpful so,
(26:24):
um, I have to adjust them alittle bit because this is, um,
an animated powerpoint, so Ihave to just go in and mess with
it.
But, like the, the visual hereis overlapping concentric
circles of all of these things.
There's loneliness, there'sdepression, because what happens
is there's the offender'sactions right towards you as an
(26:45):
individual, and then there's themental health consequences of
that in this world, because,look, I do have a big Italian
family, but you know what?
We're all professionals,there's kids, we all work, and I
can go weeks without.
I mean, okay, maybe not bigItalian family, but you know
what?
We're all professionals,there's kids, we all work, and I
can go weeks without.
I mean, okay, maybe not in thefamily chat, because we're not
that lucky, but I could go weeksfrom not seeing them.
I can go weeks with not hearingthem.
I mean, if it's OctoberDomestic Violence Awareness
(27:08):
Month I don't see them.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
In October I'm running around Long Island like
a gypsy like a gypsy, like youknow what I'm saying, like I you
know.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So, um, I think women have to be, then, um, aware of
these slow roll, the slow bone,that's the slow burn.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Well, that's the goal of this conversation, so that
they don't get engulfed by itand end up six months down,
eight months, two years, threeyears down ten years down the
road and wasting their liveswith somebody.
But you know what?
Also?
You know, I always say this onthe podcast Men are, you know,
and it goes for women toothey're supposed to treat you
(27:49):
well 100% they are supposed totreat you well.
I love this conversationAnybody that's not treating you
well Anybody who's not treatingyou well.
Anybody who's not treating youwell, anybody that's critiquing
your outfits, your glasses, yourfamily, your this, your that.
They're not for you.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Your interests your job, your hair.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
My ex used to be like your hair has to be so long
your nails have to yes it does.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
The answer is yes, and I love that.
The answer is yes, and I lovethat the answer is yes, and
flutter off.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Go to the girl who wears her hair in a bun every
day.
It's not for me.
You will never see me with ahair in a bun like Allison, but
that's okay.
That doesn't make it right,wrong or indifferent.
You have to ask yourself why.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Especially in the beginning.
Why should they like my longhair Right?
Especially in the beginning?
Because I owe you nothing, butnot even in the beginning.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Let's say, you're dating somebody for a year.
And after that year they startsaying you know what?
I don't like navy blue on youand I hate your necklaces and I
think your hair is ugly and Idon't like blue eyes anymore.
Can you wear contacts?
I don't care what it is, you'retoo fat, you're too thin,
you're too this.
Fucking.
Leave bye, felicia, bye, like.
(28:59):
Don't try to change from navyblue to stripes if you don't
want I mean, if you don't want.
Once in a blue moon, I don'tlike a stripe.
Wear the polka dots.
It looks better on you, that'sokay.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's not go crazy but there's also but that's a
great conversation because partof what we talk about a lot, too
, is the balance, because I'vehad partners say look, I'm with
my partner, I value theiropinion To a point To a point.
Is this dress better or is thatdress?
Speaker 3 (29:25):
I mean I say this all the time with women who you
know they defer to their guysabout the perfume they wear.
Absolutely and that's okay,yeah but you know, I guess the
point is at what point do youfeel uncomfortable?
Does it not sit right with you?
So, and that's the that's agreat point.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
So here's the end.
Well, here's our answer, andI'm not going to say that answer
.
But one of the answers is whenit feels wrong.
So like if I said to you youknow what those stripes look
great, but I really do lovethose, and you're like I'm
wearing the stripes, okay, let'sgo, that's fine.
That's fine Because like no isa complete sentence.
Well, so is yes, are you reallywearing that?
(30:07):
Yes, yes, I am.
Are you really doing that?
Yes, right that, that, yes,right, that's I mean I'm famous
for that too, because I, I'm,I'm big, I'm big, right of
course, within that's the alsothing, like, is it about the
partner and we go.
We got into this a little bitmore in the very first episode,
so I'm going to defer to that.
Go back and listen to our veryfirst episode, because we talk
about the intricacies of thebalance between what is um, a
(30:33):
healthy disagreement right and ahealthy disagreement right and
a healthy recovery from adisagreement or even an argument
, because, listen, we're NewYorkers, we're firing.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
There's gonna be arguments.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I think that's so important to be able to
differentiate between the twoand that can go back to our
first conversation and healthycommunication too.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Here's another thing that I'm going to assume that
these men or women that arepredators like this do not have
a healthy way of communicating,and I think you can see that
right off the bat Listen, yourgut goes immediately.
(31:12):
And not only that, but ladies,you know, once again, we always
talk about this there are redflags.
Okay, if you start dating a guyand you say, hey, listen, you
know what.
I need this from you to feelsecure, I need, you know, a few
texts during the day, maybe atthe end of the day.
You're busy, I'm busy, you knowit's, we're in three months
(31:35):
touch base touch base.
It's a call at the end of thenight and that man completely
ignores that.
And the next day.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
You don't get it, you don't get that's not an
unreasonable request, right?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
and you don't get a, you don't get.
That's not an unreasonablerequest, right?
And you don't get a text.
Or I need to see you.
You know, two days a week.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
We're headed towards a relationship right, right, you
know, we make time.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Two days time, two days, reasonable request
reasonable request and the manjust ignores it.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Right, ladies, that's a red flag, that's a red flag
you should not chase anybody.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You should not have to chase anybody they're not
interested, interested in what'smaking you uncomfortable, what
easily can make you happy, yourwants, your needs.
They're not putting enough time.
These are all red flags to seethat the person is either not
that interested, not a goodcommunicator.
If you say, hey, I feel likesomething's bothering you,
(32:26):
what's bothering you, andthey're like I'm not talking
about this, these are all signsof unhealthy, immature
communication.
A person should be able to turnaround to you and be like, hey,
listen, you know what I gotback with my ex.
Or hey, listen, just healthycommunication and even hard
communication and all of thesethings Don't go forward.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Move back Is the foundation for what happens,
right?
So what happens when you do goforward?
What happens when you are inthe relationship Just to bring
it back to the clinical, thebehavioral, health side of this
from a domestic violencestandpoint is when you ignore
all of this and when youexperience what Melissa is
(33:06):
describing Not the good guy,yeah, um.
So you know when, when you gothrough, um, when you ignore all
of that.
And we also talk a little bitmore about red flags.
We could do a whole, we coulddo 75 episodes on red flags, but
the it's itags, but there'sloneliness, there's fear.
(33:28):
All of this is so layered andthere's an intersectionality in
between those types of abuse andthere's also a bit of a sunk
cost fallacy.
Like, look, none of us aregetting any younger, like let's
face it we're not in our 20s.
I've devoted all this time yeah,and by the way, that could be a
(33:49):
week for some people, because,again, everybody's baseline,
everybody's vulnerabilities,everybody's standards are
different it could be Like twomonths in is huge for me when I
haven't had something in a longtime.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Right, exactly, and everybody and right
(34:33):
no-transcript peace, or wouldyou rather be miserable with you
continuing to tell this personyou know what, whatever it is
that you?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
need the devil, you know, melissa, the devil you
know is better than the devilyou don't.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And here's why, see, I can't live like that.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Because we also don't want a victim shame here?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
No, I'm not.
But I'm just saying, ladies, ifyou tell them I need Hint water
, because I love Hint water andI just need to hydrate every day
, or I get a migraine andthey're out at the supermarket
and they don't bring you anyhint water and they're like fuck
you, I hate hint water.
You'll drink I don't knowcoffee and you don't drink.
(35:20):
You'd rather live with this sonof a bitch because you spent a
year.
Do you know what I'm trying?
Speaker 3 (35:27):
to say the pain, the daily pain, melissa what you're
describing now, and I get it.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I appreciate your passion and I appreciate it, but
that is the point.
You need a man that's going tobring you hemp water.
That's all well and good.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
That's all well and good.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Here's what also has happened at this point you've
normalized it.
Okay, now also I'm gonna remindyou, but we're here to tell
them it's not normal.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I understand that this is what?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
what we're talking about is why they stay, yeah,
why they don't leave.
Okay, so what you're describingis what all of us see on the
outside, on the, and you're,frankly, a perfect.
This is a perfect example backand forth, especially that's why
I do it especially because you,having been, you having been
through it, which you're veryopen about, and I so appreciate
(36:18):
that.
But you gotta understand again,everybody's baseline is
different, right, everybody'srock bottom is different and let
me tell you, the devil you knowis better than the devil you
don't.
Whether it's two months, twodays, two weeks, two years or 25
years, we have had clients comeinto the shelter 30 years apart
, same marriage.
(36:39):
We have had clients call usafter because here's what and
this is a rare, because I don'twant to scare anybody, but it
does happen which is why youhave to be real careful on the
apps.
We've had clients come in.
They've only been dating a weekor they only met a couple times
.
Now, those guys, thoseindividuals, that's like some
criminal minds type stuff, likeit does happen, but you got to
be careful because it doeshappen.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Watch out Allison.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I've you know, I've identified some scary things,
yeah so let's so now also theguilt right, because part of the
gaslighting and part of theemotional manipulation is that
you are.
It's your fault, it's my fault.
I've because because, geez,allison, I don't really think it
was such a big deal that youcould have gotten.
I mean, you could have gone onany number of websites and
(37:24):
gotten blue frames, why, youknow, I told you that I don't
you that you're such a beautifulwoman, but I just don't think
the black frames are.
They don't fit you real well.
I really would rather love tosee those brown eyes framed by
blue.
I mean, why wouldn't you justdo that for me?
Is that too much to ask?
Boom yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I could see it really easily, so easy yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
So easy, right.
And then they minimize it, andthen I'm like go fuck yourself,
Melissa James.
Melissa focus.
All right, I'm focusing.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
I'm going to have someone, I mean I.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No but you might say here's what though Let me also
say but that's like perfect,like it's great for us both to
be here because she's the yinI'm the yang she's like.
I can see how I would want togo get the blue and I'm like I
can see how I'd tell you to fuckyourself.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
I'm just going to say Allison she was much better
behaved when you weren't here.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
I'm just saying If you go back to our very first
episode she was much betterbehaved.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Listen you gotta bring the y.
I said screw you on X.
Right Again, though, theseindividuals are master.
Okay, they're going to leavethat alone then.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
And that's going to be another thing, and then
they're going to find somethingelse.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And then your guard is down right.
Because, you think you're a bigtough guy and I totally put
this guy in his place.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Oh, you think you're a big tough guy and I totally
put this guy in his place.
Oh, you think so?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, well, they keep coming at you, and then they
come at you with something else.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
And there is shame, so annoying.
There is shame.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And then you start to blame yourself.
And then, by the way, whathappens when a friend of yours
says I don't, so what's the bigdeal?
I'll send, get blue frames.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
They.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
They're like $10 on like three sites right, and that
is again, and that's accidental.
When we talk about safeinterventions and we talk about
how to support friends andfamily that are going through
this, we do a whole section onvictim blaming.
Well, hold on, because, on onehand, we would never what were
you wearing?
We would never do that.
(39:24):
Obviously, however, there areaccidental, um, um, subtle forms
of victim blaming that weaccidentally invert like we
don't realize.
Like because again, hey, allison, that partner of yours that you
just started dating a couplemonths ago, yeah, but they were
so funny, like, so what?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
get the blue frames who.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Because, we don't realize either, because it's
that subtle.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I think it's helpful.
What I did was I wrote it down.
No, really, I'm trying to helpyou, ladies out.
I wrote it down.
When I tried to get back withmy ex right, I thought for my
kids, my whatever Sure you havethoughts.
Anyway, I love the smirk onyour face Disaster.
No, but listen, this is what Idid, because he did that what
(40:08):
you're describing my ex did tome.
So I took a piece of paper andit lasted, I think, two months,
maybe three months at most, andevery time he did something like
that it was why do you have togo to the gym at 3.30?
You can't go at 6 am like therest of the population, like
every other normal mom whosekids get off the-.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Wait, why is that a problem for you?
But I wrote it down.
Yeah, gym.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Right, 3.30.
Why do your nails have to beshaped like that?
Do they really have to bepointy?
And listen, I'm just going totell you what he said to me
Puerto Rican, like black, likethat's what you, oh my God what
a racist thing.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
So I wrote down what is that?
So I wrote down nails.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
He wrote why does your hair have?
Why?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
do your extensions have to be?
You should have wrote down therace of a bitch.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Well, wait, why does your hair have to be so long.
Melissa, you got to get the 22inch extensions.
You can't get the 18.
Like it really has to be allthe way down.
I wrote down here by the timethe three months was over.
I still have that.
I had 35 things.
I bet you missed a bunch too,and I still have that piece of
(41:15):
paper in my nightstand I'llnever get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Good for you, I love that, but what I'm trying to say
, ladies, if you're saying theycome small, you know you're
right.
I'm busy with my kids, I'm busywith my friends, I'm busy with
life.
I'm busy with my kids Becausethen all together it adds up.
I'm busy with my friends.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I'm busy with life, I'm busy with my job.
You're right, I would forget alot of them.
Yeah, ladies, take a piece ofpaper like I did.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
That's really smart.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Take a pen.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
And every time he says something to you like you
say, I just want to disclaimhere because I'm a service
provider.
I think that's a fantasticexercise.
Disclaimer make sure he can'tfind it.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, that's true, oh , he wasn't living with me.
He wasn't.
No, in your situation, that'sfine.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
But, if he or she found that it could be very,
very dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I read it to him so just as a.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Melissa At the end of the three months.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I'm just saying.
I read it to him and told himwhy I didn't want to be with him
Come on.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Focus Focus, all right, so I Write it down.
Write it down or in some way,shape or form, but keep it safe
because that's a very dangerousthing, Hide it in a sock or
something.
So you know, and here's, let'salso not forget this with the
cycle of, and because they'renot, you know, all the time is
(42:30):
hope, don't forget.
Hope is horrible, hope ischallenging, hope can be
dangerous.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Very dangerous.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
So, like we, I don't really like the word hope.
I don't like it because hopealso insinuates that it is out
of your control, which, by theway it is.
You cannot control.
Hope is big.
You cannot control how anybodyelse acts.
No, you cannot control if he orshe will change.
You can only control yourself.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
And here's another thing, and they say this all the
time on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Here she goes, the big mouth.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
No wait, you love me, she loves me.
Here's another thing, ladies,she loves me.
Here's another thing, ladies,and this happens.
You see this all over tiktokold.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I see this instagram reels everything.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
So this is related.
Relatable women hope the man isgoing to be the man they met.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
That's a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
True, not the man that is presenting himself today
and ladies, you see it all overthe place.
You cannot be going on the themastermind, yes, manipulator, or
who knows if mercury was inretrograde or what the hell was
going on.
I thank the lord it killed meum, you can't go on that man,
(43:44):
but you have to go on what iscurrent.
So hope, forget about hope.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Current Current as it .
What is true I?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
always say to people.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
What is true today and one of my bosses, one of our
bosses' favorite sayings iswhen someone shows you who they
are, believe it, believe themthe first time, and that is key,
because that hope is.
so.
And, by the way, and I want youto put a pin in your, I want
(44:15):
you to for a second, what makesyou think that the victim in
this situation is not in lovewith this partner?
Because, don't kid yourself,because they're the partner.
The abusive party isn't abusive24 7.
So part of that hope aspect isa they're hoping they go back to
(44:40):
that first person, like.
I saw an article recently thatsaid something to the effect of
um, um, the person you marriedis not the person you're
divorcing.
And I was like, what a perfectway to say that, because it's
the truth and you spend so muchtime hoping, and part of the
reason that you have that hope,by the way, is because that's
(45:01):
what they're telling you.
Because when you say to them,babe, like you, come on, we used
to X, y and Z, or we used to belike this and we used to be
like that.
Well, guess what?
You just handed them Right.
I'm not blaming you, becausethat's a common conversation in
a, in what you would think.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
But this is how easy it is for them to find ways.
But that's find ways to likeI'll.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
So I'll convince him or her that I'll go back to I
don't know the romantic gestureslike, and they'll do it for a
minute.
Or I'll go back to doing thehousework and they'll do it for
a minute, or I'll go back tobeing nice to your mother or
something right.
All of the things I'll go backto.
Um, I'll go back to cookingdinner, whatever it is it
(45:45):
doesn't matter, just a littletaste of the hope and, again, as
as as people, as I really look,it's a screwed up world out
there, but I really believe thatpeople are good, like meaning,
like they meet, like so, likewhen you're with somebody like
that, like you and the part, theuh sort of uh client, the
potential client, the victim Idon't like the word victim, but
the the, if it's happening, it'syou're technically the
(46:06):
potential client, the victim Idon't like the word victim, but
if it's happening, you'retechnically being victimized.
So the victim in that situation, like most people, like they
want to see the good, they wantto believe and, again, they want
to believe that they didn't getmanipulated into.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Yeah, but you did Right and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
And it's not your fault.
No, it's not your fault,because they are master
manipulators.
Again, I'm going to go back to,I'm going to push this until
the day I dirty John the Wonderypodcast.
So good.
So that is a huge, huge part ofthe emotional aspect.
Now I'm also going to add insome other things here that are
real important.
Um things here that are realimportant.
(46:50):
Um disabilities there's a high,high, high rate of um abusive
situations in couples where thevictim has a disability, or,
frankly, the abuser, becausesometimes that's the they play
the victim yeah, and the otheris the caretaker exactly exactly
so.
Like, whether you're a caretakeror your abuser is your
caretaker, there's a high, solike, so, like, logistically,
where are you going?
Where are you going?
What are you doing, right?
How are you leaving that?
(47:11):
How are you going to just leaveRight?
Societal pressure Do not takefor granted that there is still
societal pressure To be coupled,to be coupled to have the kids.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like, look, I'm in a veryfemale-dominated family.
It's very funny, there's a lotof females.
(47:32):
So you know, but you know, atthe end of the day, like there's
still a little bit of.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, gee, it's nice being,it's some nice and so, yeah, and
, and, and many of us not myfamily, but like many of us
aren't too far removed from thegeneration that got.
(47:53):
I mean, I have colleagues thatare first generation born here.
Do not kid yourself about thesocietal norms that still have
an underlying threat it's a lotbigger than we think it is.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
It's huge, and it's not just in the immigrant
population, by the way it's notjust in yeah, it's not just I
mean, we do.
It is more challenging for them.
I will tell you, I've hadplenty of conversations on the
hotline with individuals who areeither recent immigrants or
first generation born here andthey're still arranged marriage.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I have had conversations, I've had women in
my shelter who have beenphysically assaulted within days
of their arranged marriage.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
so it is a thing still, and I'm not judging
anybody's, I'm not.
This has nothing to do with it.
No, I'm not judging, I'm merelysaying the facts about, because
these cultures they've beenaround for thousands of years
and they are practiced in ahealthy and celebratory and
respectful way by millions ofpeople.
But do not take for grantedsocietal norms being a pressure
for any given individual in thesituation.
(48:58):
And then, of course, you know,melissa, like we talked about a
little bit, is the kids Right?
Right, you are constantly goingto question yourself.
Here's what I will tell you Evenif the kids are not, I'm going
to remind you guys, even if thekids are not being directly
abused themselves, even if thisindividual is, on face value,
(49:22):
parent of the year, on facevalue parent of the year right
and the soccer coach and goes toevery school play and does game
nights with the I mean even ifthey are a world-class parent
just being in the study show.
The science shows that justbeing present in the home and
witnessing the abuse those kidsare going to have the same exact
(49:46):
side effects if they were beingdirectly abused themselves okay
so let's, let's sort of not, um, let's not sort of take for
granted what happens to kids whojust yeah, living in an abusive
environment, yeah just theenvironment and the other thing.
I I think this is the thirdtime in your show I've told this
(50:07):
analogy but the frog in theboiling water, right?
If you boil water and throw afrog in it, it bounces right out
.
Okay, that's this one over herewith the F-bomb, fuck this,
fuck that I'm out of here.
Right?
But if you put a frog in coldwater, and slowly heat it.
(50:28):
What happens?
It stays, that's right, and thefrog is cooked, and that is
something that you cannot takefor granted.
Also, as we discussed,everybody's vulnerabilities are
different.
The minute you think you don'thave vulnerabilities is the
minute that you're going to be,and it doesn't matter who you
(50:48):
are, where you come from.
We get phone calls from highpowered CEOs.
We get phone calls fromclinicians.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, it doesn't matter what you do or what color
skin you are, where you comefrom, no, but, I think that the
whole point of our podcast, too,is to show you the red flags,
if you call it, so you don't endup in the situation, absolutely
.
But also and then we have youto tell them how to get out of
(51:15):
the situation, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
And also for the sake of for this conversation, is to
also say to you if you're inthis situation, it's not your
fault.
No, there are a million, all ofthese reasons why it's tough to
get out.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
I get it.
We're here for you right.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
Absolutely.
So that's like a and if youneed help, call.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Oh yeah, we're going to oh call, call, call call.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
We're going to have the number, we're going to have
the email.
Our hotline is 631-666-8833.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
And it's 24-7, seven days a week.
There used to be this old likein the 90s.
There was this old law firmthat had that.
You can call us New Year's Eveat midnight.
You can literally call us NewYear's Eve at midnight, and it's
confidential, it's free and youcan remain anonymous.
And while we're on the topic,real quick, because this is
actually a good stopping point,because I'm going to go into the
(52:11):
financial barriers you callthat a hotline.
You don't have to do anything,you don't have to know what to
say, you don't have to knowwhere to start.
Our counselors are trained.
I participate in training thehotline counselors and I train
them to say look, if a clientdoesn't know where to start, you
(52:32):
ask them.
Okay, maybe you want to startwith the most recent.
Maybe you want to start withthe most painful.
Right, it's our job.
It's our job to figure it out.
But you don't have to doanything, just make the phone
call, just have the conversationand then you can make an
informed.
Because I say that, like we, itis on, it is up to you, because
(52:56):
I say to people all the time ifyou're going to say no to
something, that's okay, butunderstand, know what you're
saying no to, because if itmight be a no right now, but it
might a month from now whensomething else clicks and you go
, wait a minute, I know myrights here.
Do you see what I'm saying?
And that's really important,and don't listen.
(53:17):
You know, one of my big issueswas during the COVID lockdown,
which we like to think is goneand behind us, but we are still
having fallout from it.
Domestic violence incidenceswent up in severity and quantity
by something like 30%.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Well, because everybody was home and everybody
lost their jobs, and we arestill seeing those numbers.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Our hotline calls have increased by 30% to 40% and
they have not gone down.
And one of the things that theoffenders did was they lied to
because other countries.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah, we had said this in our first one, in our
they lied and said that weweren't open or whatever.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
Yeah, guess what?
We are always.
Oh wait, I don't care what'shappening, we hurricane, I don't
care, we are here, we believeyou and you are not alone.
Um, so that's actually a greatopportunity to start talking
about the financial aspects.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yes, and we're definitely going to talk about
that and the risks, the safetyrisks, the safety risks in a
part three.
Yay, so you will be back, butthank you so much, it's been so
helpful we had such helpfulinformation today, as usual.
Thank you, guys, so much forhaving me.
You're welcome and that isdating daycare, why they don't
(54:31):
leave and, of course, me puttingthe the pin in it just say go
fuck yourself, all right, andmove on anyway, all right, we
love you, we'll see you soon.
Bye.
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