February 12, 2025 • 34 mins
Ever been caught in a web of emotions that feels impossible to escape? Licensed marriage and family therapist Sadia Younis joins us to unravel the intricacies of trauma bonds, those difficult ties that bind individuals to their abusers. We explore the psychological loops of abuse, apologies, and love bombing, all while examining why some of us are magnetically drawn to emotionally unavailable partners. Sadia helps us identify the roots of these patterns, often buried in our past, and offers insights into recognizing and breaking free from these toxic cycles.
In a world filled with relationships haunted by unresolved issues, recognizing red flags is crucial. We tackle the complexities of engaging with partners who carry baggage from their past and the importance of asking the right, revealing questions. The conversation deepens as we emphasize the necessity of self-worth and intuition, encouraging listeners to embrace solitude over toxicity. When genuine affection is hard to distinguish from manipulative love-bombing, knowing your value becomes your strongest shield.
Healing from narcissistic relationships requires a strategic approach, and finding the right therapeutic support is vital. Saadia introduces us to EMDR therapy, a transformative method for trauma healing that processes memories in a unique way. Discover how to choose the right therapist, assess their qualifications, and navigate available resources to support your journey. With Sadia's guidance, this episode offers a powerful toolkit for those seeking liberation and healthier connections.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Dating Daycare, where we're going to
help you navigate through thejungle of jerks.
Ladies, welcome back.
And gents, today, by populardemand, we have Sadia Younis
back, our therapist of the show.
I think she's becoming so we'reso excited of the show.
(00:28):
I think she's becoming so we'reso excited.
Today we have been asked by alot of viewers to go over trauma
bonds, so we thought this wouldbe the perfect opportunity to
do it with Sadia, because she isan expert in.
Please introduce yourself again.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes, hi, I'm Sadia Younis.
I'm a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and an EMDR
certified trauma specialist, andI'm excited to be here.
That's exciting.
Yes, very buzzy, allison, youmissed our last show.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know I'm sorry, I saw it's your first time meeting
Sadia.
She's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, ladies.
So we are going to go overtrauma bonds.
Sadia is going to explaineverything about them to us and
then we will ask our questions.
If you have any questions,please write them in, let us
know and they will be answered.
So explain to us trauma bonds.
What are they?
How do we get into it andbecome trauma bonded?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, absolutely so.
There's so many definitions outthere and I like to talk about
all the different kinds oftrauma bonding.
The way that the definition isis that it is being in that
abusive relationship and beingtied to your abuser, and that
tie is what I'd love to talkabout, because there's different
(01:40):
ways that you're tied to thatabuser.
It could be that it seemsfamiliar, it's something that
you've experienced, maybe inchildhood, growing up, something
with a parent, and so it feelsfamiliar and so, therefore, it's
comfortable and you stay there,even though it's an abusive
relationship and you really needto get out.
(02:00):
Another way is it could be aprevious relationship, right,
and again that familiar, thatcomfortable, and so you're tied
there, even though you knowyou're mistreated.
There's abuse there emotional,psychological, physical, sexual,
whatever the abuse is andyou're tied.
The other piece is the patternthat ties you and that the abuse
(02:24):
, and it's not only abuse, butthere's also the love bombing,
and so it's a cycle.
It's like the abuse and thenthe apologies, the groveling,
the apologizing, which happensall the time.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yes, see that I see that all the time when women are
writing on all these differentwebsites that we kind of you
know, try to help and answer andcome along with, always, well,
there's always an apology,always, and then it's almost
like a cycle.
And I also, like you said, alsosee, even in high school I had
girlfriends that always went forthe same type of guy, it didn't
(03:01):
matter what guy they weredating but they always went for
that same type of abusivepersonality type of guy times.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
it's your wounded inner self that's attracted to
their wounded inner self, and soit's not even like your secure
adult selves, right?
We talked about secureattachment last time it's not
even your secure adult self.
That's uh connecting with thatperson.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's the wounded inner children or the wounded
inner self and we discussed thatthat a lot of this stuff comes
from childhood.
We had discussed on our lastshow if you haven't seen it,
watch it.
It was excellent.
But yes, so a lot of this stuffonce again comes from childhood
why you pick the people thatyou pick.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Absolutely yeah, and we talked about like
pursuer-distancer.
So sometimes you're the pursuer.
You wanna get closer, you wantto, you know, connect with the
person and they're pushing awayor they're avoidant, and so a
lot of times that's what you'reattracted to.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You're attracted to the unavailable, the chase, the
dynamic.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, the unavailable , even though it's not good for
you.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, Right, Absolutely, even though it's not
good for you.
Right, right, absolutely, yeah.
And then with the trauma bondonce you're in one.
So once this happens and yourealize that the person isn't
good for you or there's apattern of abuse sorry, I won't
do it again and then they do itagain.
Or maybe all your familymembers and your friends are
(04:43):
like what are you doing withthis guy?
He's horrible, Like he treatsyou this way, or he does that,
or he doesn't help you with this.
And then you realize it's bad,but you're like I can't leave.
So what does it take forsomebody that actually knows
they're in a trauma bond toleave?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Great question, right , it definitely takes a lot of
help and a lot of support,therapy, friends and family
around you, because that traumabond can be so strong that you
can't get out yourself.
There's too many ties to theperson and that's your again
wounded inner self, your senseof self.
(05:25):
Sometimes, right, if the personhas really broken you down with
the gaslighting or with all ofthose other things, they've
broken you down, your sense ofself Now you feel that you need
that person to even survive orto even be okay, and so you
really need people around you toget you out.
(05:45):
So it's really hard, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Could we back up a little just to look at what it
might look like to someone inthe beginning stages of forming
a relationship based upon atrauma bond?
What might some warning signsbe that this is happening to you
?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's really.
And that's why understandingyourself is so important,
because it's really aboutrecognizing when you're starting
to question yourself, you'restarting to doubt yourself,
you're starting to questionyourself, you're starting to
doubt yourself, you're startingto question yourself.
(06:29):
You're not even sure about yourreality.
That's really like a sign where, hey, I used to be really
secure when I went out rightwith friends or girlfriends or
if I had somewhere to be, andnow I'm like, oh, maybe I
shouldn't go, maybe they'll beupset, they're going to say
something, we're going to getinto an argument.
So that beginning signs isquestioning yourself, doubting
(06:50):
yourself, not being as secure asyou used to be.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
For sure relationships that create trauma
bonds that most likely therewas some traumatic or toxic
behavior in the childhood.
Do you know what I'm trying tosay, to me at least?
(07:18):
I've always seen, throughgirlfriends or whatever, that
the person you're in the traumabond with did not come from a
healthy, wholesome background.
They come from some sort oftrauma, actually from past or
from childhood.
So I feel that is a huge wetalked about that also in the
(07:40):
last show that when you meetsomebody and I always say this,
ladies, and I tell my daughterthis all the time when you meet
somebody that comes from abroken family, alcoholic family,
drug addict mother I mean I'mjust naming some things out
there some traumatic event ofyou you know parents weren't
(08:01):
around as a child.
The list could go on and on.
Most likely they are not thepick of the litter to have the
relationship with.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Unless they've gone and done the work Extensive,
absolutely, and I have to sayyou know what?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I wish the world was better and I wish I could say
this more, but I don't see thata lot.
I would welcome that any day.
But I always see, by the timepeople realize right, because
the parents aren't there to sayI need to put you in therapy,
they're alcoholics or drugaddicts or not home.
So by the time these peoplerealize, or someone tells them
(08:40):
right, you need some help, Idon't need help, I'm not getting
.
Or they go and it's tooexpensive now, or it's too much
work and they never put the timein, and then the barrel just
keeps rolling and then they findsomebody as broken as them.
Do you know what I mean for therelationship to work?
Because, like you just said, ifyou find somebody secure, and
(09:05):
they're not going to put up withwhat I'm not putting up with it
.
There's no way I can't even getthat far with you.
But if you find somebody alittle bit broken and insecure
and they have a little bit of anin and they get you and then
you form that trauma bonds.
You know what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying?
(09:29):
So most like it's two.
If you want to say people thathave had trauma correct in order
, there's not.
So don't let it right, don'tlet the other person tell you
you're the crazy one, I'm normal.
You know what I'm trying to say.
Like it takes two to tango,correct, sure?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
yeah, and it's really about asking yourself what part
of you is attracted to theperson.
Because if you're going forsomebody who, yeah, who's had a
traumatic childhood, is it thepart of you that needs to fix
right we talked about that lasttime too Like, do I need to fix?
Do I need to help this person?
Do I need to save this person?
(10:02):
So what part of you is kind ofbeing activated when you're
being attracted to this person?
Is I need to save this person?
So what part of you is kind ofbeing activated when you're
being attracted to this person?
Is it that healthy part of you?
You know that, oh, we'll make agreat, you know, relationship.
We'll, you know, be good toeach other.
We'll grow together.
Or is it?
You know, this person needswork and I'm going to be the
(10:22):
savior.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'm going to be the fixer, and that's how I get love
in return.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yes, and that fulfills me.
Right that does something forme.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, but you never get the love with that.
You know what I'm trying to say.
Most like in the ends, ladies,the person that's broken is not
capable of showing you the lovethat you think you're going to
receive.
They're broken.
It never comes full fold.
You fix.
You hear all these women.
I built them up.
I helped him build his business.
(10:54):
If it wasn't for me theywouldn't have this empire or
this family or this whatever,and then he goes on and he
cheats on me or he's divorcingme for his secretary.
You're never going to get whatyou deem, you think you should.
You know what I'm saying, whatyou think, the work you put in,
oh, I deserve.
Of course you deserve, you do,but you're not going to get it
from someone that's broken.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And is asking yourself are you looking for
love or are you looking for aproject?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right.
Oh God, I'm exhausted.
Because a lot of it.
I'm exhausted.
I'm not looking for any project.
I can tell you that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
We do enough.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
We have enough on our plate.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Roberta the builder, you've got to be honest with
yourself, because it's notalways about the other person.
It's about you too and whatyou're really looking for you
have to take ownership.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yes, and also I think it's really important too,
because I see this a lot.
When we read um, a lot of womenwill say and I was guilty of
this myself, so I can tell youit does happen, because it
happened to me.
He wasn't that way in thebeginning because they changed
their best selves.
(11:59):
Yeah do you know what I'm saying.
So, so what I've learned,ladies, right, I always try to
bring a little real life rightinto this for me too, what I
realize and tell me if this isright or wrong.
You really have to look at thebackground of a person, where
they came from, if they'redivorced, a little bit of their
(12:20):
history, if they have children,there are other signs that could
lead you to say this isn't thebest pick.
And because people do try andhide things, but you can't hide
unless you're going to lie, ofcourse, your past.
So if you meet a man he's likewell, I'm adopted, you know, and
(12:42):
I was adopted into an alcoholicfamily.
I left at 18.
I never spoke to them again andI'm divorced with two girls I
don't speak to.
These are all red flags that youknow, even though they're
presenting as great job,handsome well-dresser, treating
(13:03):
you great.
I mean, nothing seems awry here.
Everything seems like oh, badluck, you know what I'm saying.
Oh, I can't blame you for, youknow, being adopted into an
alcoholic family.
Saying I can't blame you forbeing adopted into an alcoholic
family and I can't blame you,you had a horrible relationship.
Lots of people get divorcedright and they move on and
they're not horrible people.
(13:23):
But you know what I'm saying.
If all you have to look by whenyou meet somebody is their past
, I feel like you should takethat into account.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, and a question you can really ask is how did
that impact you?
How has that impacted you?
What did you learn from it?
Right, Right, Because there'sso much that the answer right
that you can get from whatthey're saying.
How did that impact them?
Did that lead them to be bitter?
Did it lead them to, you know,be angry at the world?
(13:54):
Or, you know, did they work onthemselves like you were saying
they worked on themselves.
They went to therapy.
You know, they got some EMDR.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And they healed a lot of that childhood stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right, but if you have to look at some red flags
to not get into the, you know,the trauma bond or the toxic,
like you were saying, what aresome things that you can kind of
address beforehand?
I think that's a big one right?
Address their family, how dothey treat their mother?
Right, all these things wetalked about in the other.
(14:27):
Because if they're lying andthey're presenting well or not
necessarily lying, but puttingon their best self, a lot of
women take that and roll with itand say, oh well, all that
other stuff was just bad luck.
You lost your job, you haven'tworked in a year, like we can
make excuses for anything.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I mean, we all to some extent or another, whether
we're secure or healthy, orinsecure and unhealthy, we put
our best foot forward, of course.
So how do you discern betweenthat and that kind of
love-bombing aspect?
And I think sometimeslove-bombing or those kinds of
(15:13):
behaviors that we wouldassociate with love bombing
might not actually be lovebombing, they might be genuine.
So, like, how do you discernbetween, like the manipulative
love bombing and just genuine,genuinely nice behaviors?
That's a kind of thing I feellike women question themselves a
lot.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I know I question myself sometimes.
Absolutely, and it's not alwaysclear cut.
Yeah, it's not always easy totell.
But the way that you work onthat is you strengthen your
relationship with yourself andso that you have that trust in
yourself.
Yeah, that's the core.
No matter what the other personis saying or doing, how they're
(15:56):
acting, it's your intuition,your gut, what you believe, the
energy that you feel when you'rewith that person.
Are you questioning yourself?
Do you feel secure around them?
So all of that is the innerwork of strengthening your trust
with yourself, being able totrust yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And being able to say I'm not going to do this
anymore, I'm walking away.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Exactly, I'm worth more.
Right Right your self-worth,I'm worth more.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And not being fearful of being alone, knowing that at
the end of the day it will befine.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
In the moment it might hurt, it might suck, but
you know that you'll be allright, right.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, and it's okay to be alone, certainly as we
know from this show.
Oh my gosh, that's funny.
Yes, and then also anothermaybe it could tie into this too
like narcissists.
So that is thrown around a lottoo right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Trauma bond.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm in a relationship with a narcissist and I'm
trauma bonded and it's all kindof what is your definition, you
know, because everybody's is alittle bit different, right?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I just feel like every woman thinks every single
man is a narcissist, right,right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So how do we?
For the women that are inrelationships or trauma bonded?
I mean, like you said, numberone I like that is working on
yourself and you being able toget out of it.
It doesn't matter if they're anarcissist, if they're a serial
killer, what they are.
You have to be strong enough tobe able to pull yourself out of
it.
So you have to do the work,ladies, if you find yourself
(17:45):
repeating and getting into thesetoxic relationships and
becoming over and over againobviously it's your
responsibility to turn aroundsay I need some help yeah,
you're the common denominator inevery single relationship,
right, or you keep?
picking the same type of men,but for also people that are
like oh, he was a narcissist, myex-husband was an arso, blah,
(18:08):
blah, what's yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
you know, like if someone came to you and wanted
therapy from you.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
If we both came to you and then you're writing in
your notes and you said, okay,she's a narcissist, what would
we have to have in order for you?
I would not, I definitely wouldnot write that, no, but I'm
saying when someone comes, yes,someone comes to you oh please.
My ex would be like labeler.
What do you have to embody andproduce and show to be labeled?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Right, and that's the thing is like.
I don't like labels so much.
Right, because a label meansyou have to fit the entire
definition.
Right.
And when it comes tonarcissistic personality
disorder, there's specifictraits that they have to have
and they have to have all ofthem.
Right, and they say that only5% or less of the population.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
A very small percent of the population has all of
them yeah, so you could havetendencies towards yes and so
that's why I like narcissisticversus Behavior.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah Versus narcissist because we're just
putting the entire label on theperson, right, and then
sometimes that puts us at adisadvantage too, because now
we're just seeing that person asa narcissist.
They're labeled that way.
We're not going to be able tosee anything else Right, we're
not going to be able to seebeyond that, and so it really is
(19:32):
.
What you're looking for is thelack of empathy.
I think that's the mostalarming characteristic of
narcissists the lack of empathy.
Because how can you really bein a relationship with somebody
who doesn't have empathy?
That means there's no space foryou at all in the relationship.
There's no space for you.
They're not going to hold spacefor your feelings and what
you're going through.
(19:53):
That's the most alarming trait.
What people tend to focus on isthe grandiosity right, it's
like they think highly ofthemselves, and that could be
confidence, that could beinsecurity.
You have no idea what that isand what's really underneath,
and so the lack of empathy isthe biggest trait to kind of
look for.
Okay, and then also puttingother people down, right, like I
(20:17):
have to feel great and so Ihave to put people down.
That's also the alarming thingto look for, because if somebody
thinks they're the greatest,okay.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Right, that's different.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
That might not be as harmful as that lack of empathy,
the putting other people down,uh the need for control yes and
need for control and approvaland constant, you know,
affection accolades yeah yeah,admiration right.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So, ladies, if you think your man is a narcissist,
like everybody does those aresome traits that they at least
have to be showing in order foryou to be throwing that word
around.
Mm-hmm, absolutely.
And then here's another thing.
So once you realize I'm in thistrauma bond, you know I find a
(21:15):
lot of people don't go fortherapy.
Do you know what I'm saying?
And that's why there's thesecycles and we keep seeing this
over and over, because ifeverybody went and everybody got
fixed, there'd be no traumabond.
You know what I'm saying?
It wouldn't be a repetitivebehavior.
So what happens if somebody'slike I can't afford to go for
(21:37):
therapy?
Where do they go?
What do they do?
What happens if they're astay-at-home mom, right, and
they have kids and they knowthey're in this?
I see this a lot and they justdon't know where to go and they
don't know what to do.
What would you tell them shouldbe their first steps to do?
Like, what would you tell themshould be?
You know their first steps.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
It's a great question .
There's a lot of options outthere, right, that can be
affordable, whether it's goingthrough insurance or asking for
sliding scale fees.
People don't always know to askfor that.
You can ask therapists do youhave sliding scale fees?
Which is what?
What does that mean?
It depends on your income.
The fee will slide down.
Okay, yeah, so the therapistwill look at your income and
(22:16):
then slide the fee down to whatmakes sense for you.
There's also a lot of therapistswill do pro bono cases Really.
Yes, yeah, I do, yeah, okay, Ido.
I have a few of those on mycaseload as well as very low fee
cases as well, and you knowthere's certain companies that
(22:41):
offer low fees.
I know there's Open PathPsychotherapy, so sessions are
$30 or $60.
Okay, so I was one of thetherapists on Open Path, just to
.
I think it's so important to beable to be accessible and to
provide that for people who arelooking for affordable options.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Everyone deserves it right To be able to work on
themselves.
Personally, it's like a secondjob, trying to find someone who
takes your insurance, someonewho'll just pick up the phone.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, a lot is out of pocket.
A lot, I will admit.
A lot of therapists are out ofpocket, or even a lot of people
are maxed out with their patientload.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know they're not accepting new patients, so thank
you for sharing that Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And here's another thing that I find you know, so,
so, so important to find theright therapist for you, and not
only the right therapist foryou, that you learn to trust
right, because if you don'ttrust, you're not going to open
up and you're not going to behonest.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
But you know not every therapist is a great
therapist not, you know for you,a great fit for you, or?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
just a great therapist like you know.
Like what was that emdr?
That you do some people that doEMDR could be just starting and
not knowing really what they'redoing.
You know what I mean.
Did you guys talk about thatlast session?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
A little bit yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And you know what I'm saying.
Like you also have to do yourresearch about what you know,
are you going for trauma therapy, you going for family
counseling?
Are you go like it matters?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
what you're going for .
Yeah, you really want to lookat the person's, not only
qualifications, the lettersbehind their name, but
additional trainings, right that?
They've participated incertifications, and that's the
thing with EMDR there'sdifferent levels.
You can have an EMDR trainedtherapist, and then they're
certified right, and thenthere's consultant and trainings
(24:34):
and then consultants.
So there's different levels andso it's just being aware and
finding somebody who's reallyqualified.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, but that's on the.
You know us to vet and to pickthe right therapist with the
right training, you know, forour needs and our, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, and use the free consult right, because then
you can really address allthose concerns before you get
into that first session andyou're letting out all your
trauma on the table, right,right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
And so you want to be able to make sure that you're a
good fit, you feel comfortablewith this person and their
energy and you know you feellike you can open up and they're
a good match for you.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And then you know you set up that first session,
right, yeah, and because I dosee a lot of ladies out there
that are right, that will writein or that I'll see on our
different sites that we look atand they're like oh, I've been
seeing somebody for however longand it's not helping, whether
that could be marriagecounseling, family counseling or
(25:34):
trauma counseling, you knowwhatever.
So in that case it should behelping.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like the whole point, ladies,you should know that too.
Within how long should it?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
be helping.
Yeah, it's not an overnightthing.
It's not an overnight thingBecause this is stuff that has
accumulated for X amount ofyears.
You know no.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't mean overnight, like I've been seeing
them for two weeks andnothing's helping.
I mean that the women that aresaying oh, I've been going to
this therapist for two years andI haven't seen any change in my
child, or I haven't seen anychange in my.
It's not helping me personally,I don't feel any better about
something.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Time to find another therapist.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So how long give or take?
Like within what?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
eight months a year, of course it does it definitely
depends on the situation, andthat's why I truly believe in
EMDR, because it's proven to bethree times faster than talk
therapy alone.
Right and so, and I really dobelieve that talk therapy alone
is not enough.
I really do believe that talktherapy alone is not enough.
Like you need EMDR or IFS orbrain spotting, something that
(26:41):
goes above and beyond just talktherapy alone and accesses a
different part of the brain, thebody and the nervous system.
That's where you're going tofind faster results.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And that works with trauma bonding.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Oh, absolutely yes.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
So, ladies, if you find you're in a trauma bond,
you want to look for a therapistthat's certified in EMDR.
Absolutely Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And just could briefly go over what that is.
Again, just for people.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Oh, the EMDR.
Yeah, yeah, I know, but justfor everyone.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Absolutely so.
Emdr stands for eye movement,des desensitization and
reprocessing, and it is a traumamodality where we access the
limbic system of the brain.
So that's the part of the brainthat's feeling, sensing
memories, right, and we use eyemovement, just like in REM sleep
, right, the eyes dart back andforth and it processes memories.
(27:36):
You'll get all these dreams oflike previous events, and so
what we do is we do that in wakestate, so you're awake and
we're able to access traumamemories, and not only access
them but work through them,process them, get whatever's
stuck.
We get it unstuck.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So when you're doing this, you're awake.
Are you remembering, like, arewe talking?
While you're doing this, emdrIs there, talk along with it, or
is it something?
Because I know last time youhad mentioned it was like a
light and your rapid eyemovement.
(28:17):
So while that's going on andyou're doing that, are you
remembering memories or is itjust something that sort of
works while you're not talking?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
How does so it's a combination of talk and just
following the light or followingthe fingers back and forth
while you're processing.
There's no talking Because wedon't want to get in the way of
the brain doing the work.
Yeah.
So the brain does all the workand we sit back and we kind of
watch.
But what the therapist will dois say you know, pause.
(28:47):
We'll pause the light, we'llsay take a breath, what did you
notice?
So we'll ask what did younotice?
Very open ended, it's not.
What did you feel?
What did you notice?
So we'll ask what did younotice?
Very open-ended, it's not.
What did you feel, what did youthink?
Just what did you notice?
And it could be anything thatthe person noticed.
Memories came up, bodysensations, emotions, and we'll
say, okay, go with that.
We'll say go with that andwe'll continue the processing.
(29:08):
So it's less talking and morethe brain healing itself.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay, and and more the brain healing itself, okay,
and could that be a littleuncomfortable for the person
that's doing it because of thefeelings and is that sometimes
do people get a little, just sothe viewers know what they're in
?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and it could.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And that's why we spend a lot of time in there's
eight phases of EMDR and wespend a lot of time in
resourcing before we go into theprocessing.
And resourcing is building yourstrength, is strengthening your
brain.
It's providing youvisualization techniques,
calming we do a lot of somaticwork, calming the body, so we
prep you before you're going tobe going into that deeper work.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Okay, yeah, good.
Good for our viewers to know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Might be giving you a call.
Yeah, good, good for ourviewers to know.
Yeah, absolutely Might begiving you a call.
I got issues two individualswho have experienced trauma and
they have maybe like anunhealthy dependence on each
other or something like that.
Does it always have to beabusive?
No, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And you're right.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That's another aspect of it,right, because there's so many
definitions of trauma bonding.
That's another definition whereI think a lot of people on
social media are very aware ofis you have a similar traumatic
experience or maybe a similarchildhood experience and then
that bonds you together andbecause you can understand it,
(30:52):
you're aware of it, you can kindof help each other through it,
support each other through it,and that can be a trauma bonding
that doesn't always have to benegative.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah Right.
Well, I was kind of bringingthat up before too that what I
found like we had said thatsomebody that's secure in self,
where the attachment styles thatwe were talking about.
Usually, if they are securelike that, they usually don't go
for the you know what I'msaying Insecure.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
The insecure.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
They catch it before it even becomes the trauma bond.
So I do see that, you know, Ido see that a lot, especially
ladies.
You know you break up withsomebody, you get out of that
trauma bond.
We had discussed this last timebecause I see this all the time
too and this happens, I'm sure,with you.
It's happened with me.
You break up with somebody, youknow it wasn't good, you know
it was bad, and then they getwith somebody else and you hear
(31:55):
about it and you're like, oh myGod, they're treating them so
much better.
You know we've discussed thisbefore, but they're not.
It's going to come back at likenobody who has trauma could all
of a sudden, without anytherapy, become this secure.
Wonderful.
It doesn't work like that,right, you have to put in the
(32:16):
work.
So I feel like, with the traumabonding two people that are in
traumatic states, they bondtogether.
You know what I'm trying to say.
And then that's unhealthy too,but that could be.
They could be toxic together.
Do you know what I mean?
That happens a lot too right,right.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
And you don't always know on the outside what's going
on in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Of course, yeah, yeah , you absolutely don't yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, so thank you so much for coming.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Is there anything else?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
we should know about trauma like any other aspects of
it.
So we learned how you get in it.
We learned the type of peoplethat would create it.
We learned what you need to getout of it therapy and work on
yourself and how to avoid it.
Secure right.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Just make sure you have a great support network
around you, right?
Because if you're stuck insomething, if you're not able to
get out, you have people inyour corner who will help you.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Pull you out of it, tell you that's not normal, that
shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah, you don't deserve to be treated that way.
Absolutely Okay, good, greatWell, thank you so much we're
going to have to do gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
So much, thank you.
We're going to have to dogaslighting Another big one's
gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Right Another buzzword.
Everyone's being gaslit everyday, all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Oh yes, that's another show we'll have coming
for you.
Ladies.
We'll explain when somebodysays they're gaslighting me all
the time.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
All right, great Well , thank you so much.
Thank you For coming back onour show, we enjoyed having you
and what will we have?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
uh, sadia's info in the show notes.
So if anyone wants, to contacther.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yes, we'll have her email, her phone number,
everything awesome, yeah,perfect.
Well, thank you for listening.
Ladies and gentlemen, we hopewe helped you with trauma bonds.
If you have any questions,please write in to us.
Sadia will be happy to answerany of your questions.
We're on Dating Daycare onFacebook.
(34:25):
What else are we on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, instagram, it's a private Facebook group, so
request us.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
We look forward to seeing you again.
Thank you for watching.
Bye.
Welcome to Dating Daycare, where we're going to
help you navigate through thejungle of jerks.
Ladies, welcome back.
And gents, today, by populardemand, we have Sadia Younis
back, our therapist of the show.
I think she's becoming so we'reso excited of the show.
(00:28):
I think she's becoming so we'reso excited.
Today we have been asked by alot of viewers to go over trauma
bonds, so we thought this wouldbe the perfect opportunity to
do it with Sadia, because she isan expert in.
Please introduce yourself again.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yes, hi, I'm Sadia Younis.
I'm a licensed marriage andfamily therapist and an EMDR
certified trauma specialist, andI'm excited to be here.
That's exciting.
Yes, very buzzy, allison, youmissed our last show.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I know I'm sorry, I saw it's your first time meeting
Sadia.
She's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Okay, ladies.
So we are going to go overtrauma bonds.
Sadia is going to explaineverything about them to us and
then we will ask our questions.
If you have any questions,please write them in, let us
know and they will be answered.
So explain to us trauma bonds.
What are they?
How do we get into it andbecome trauma bonded?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, absolutely so.
There's so many definitions outthere and I like to talk about
all the different kinds oftrauma bonding.
The way that the definition isis that it is being in that
abusive relationship and beingtied to your abuser, and that
tie is what I'd love to talkabout, because there's different
(01:40):
ways that you're tied to thatabuser.
It could be that it seemsfamiliar, it's something that
you've experienced, maybe inchildhood, growing up, something
with a parent, and so it feelsfamiliar and so, therefore, it's
comfortable and you stay there,even though it's an abusive
relationship and you really needto get out.
(02:00):
Another way is it could be aprevious relationship, right,
and again that familiar, thatcomfortable, and so you're tied
there, even though you knowyou're mistreated.
There's abuse there emotional,psychological, physical, sexual,
whatever the abuse is andyou're tied.
The other piece is the patternthat ties you and that the abuse
(02:24):
, and it's not only abuse, butthere's also the love bombing,
and so it's a cycle.
It's like the abuse and thenthe apologies, the groveling,
the apologizing, which happensall the time.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yes, see that I see that all the time when women are
writing on all these differentwebsites that we kind of you
know, try to help and answer andcome along with, always, well,
there's always an apology,always, and then it's almost
like a cycle.
And I also, like you said, alsosee, even in high school I had
girlfriends that always went forthe same type of guy, it didn't
(03:01):
matter what guy they weredating but they always went for
that same type of abusivepersonality type of guy times.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
it's your wounded inner self that's attracted to
their wounded inner self, and soit's not even like your secure
adult selves, right?
We talked about secureattachment last time it's not
even your secure adult self.
That's uh connecting with thatperson.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's the wounded inner children or the wounded
inner self and we discussed thatthat a lot of this stuff comes
from childhood.
We had discussed on our lastshow if you haven't seen it,
watch it.
It was excellent.
But yes, so a lot of this stuffonce again comes from childhood
why you pick the people thatyou pick.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Absolutely yeah, and we talked about like
pursuer-distancer.
So sometimes you're the pursuer.
You wanna get closer, you wantto, you know, connect with the
person and they're pushing awayor they're avoidant, and so a
lot of times that's what you'reattracted to.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You're attracted to the unavailable, the chase, the
dynamic.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah, the unavailable , even though it's not good for
you.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Right, Right, Absolutely, even though it's not
good for you.
Right, right, absolutely, yeah.
And then with the trauma bondonce you're in one.
So once this happens and yourealize that the person isn't
good for you or there's apattern of abuse sorry, I won't
do it again and then they do itagain.
Or maybe all your familymembers and your friends are
(04:43):
like what are you doing withthis guy?
He's horrible, Like he treatsyou this way, or he does that,
or he doesn't help you with this.
And then you realize it's bad,but you're like I can't leave.
So what does it take forsomebody that actually knows
they're in a trauma bond toleave?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Great question, right , it definitely takes a lot of
help and a lot of support,therapy, friends and family
around you, because that traumabond can be so strong that you
can't get out yourself.
There's too many ties to theperson and that's your again
wounded inner self, your senseof self.
(05:25):
Sometimes, right, if the personhas really broken you down with
the gaslighting or with all ofthose other things, they've
broken you down, your sense ofself Now you feel that you need
that person to even survive orto even be okay, and so you
really need people around you toget you out.
(05:45):
So it's really hard, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Could we back up a little just to look at what it
might look like to someone inthe beginning stages of forming
a relationship based upon atrauma bond?
What might some warning signsbe that this is happening to you
?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's really.
And that's why understandingyourself is so important,
because it's really aboutrecognizing when you're starting
to question yourself, you'restarting to doubt yourself,
you're starting to questionyourself, you're starting to
doubt yourself, you're startingto question yourself.
(06:29):
You're not even sure about yourreality.
That's really like a sign where, hey, I used to be really
secure when I went out rightwith friends or girlfriends or
if I had somewhere to be, andnow I'm like, oh, maybe I
shouldn't go, maybe they'll beupset, they're going to say
something, we're going to getinto an argument.
So that beginning signs isquestioning yourself, doubting
(06:50):
yourself, not being as secure asyou used to be.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
For sure relationships that create trauma
bonds that most likely therewas some traumatic or toxic
behavior in the childhood.
Do you know what I'm trying tosay, to me at least?
(07:18):
I've always seen, throughgirlfriends or whatever, that
the person you're in the traumabond with did not come from a
healthy, wholesome background.
They come from some sort oftrauma, actually from past or
from childhood.
So I feel that is a huge wetalked about that also in the
(07:40):
last show that when you meetsomebody and I always say this,
ladies, and I tell my daughterthis all the time when you meet
somebody that comes from abroken family, alcoholic family,
drug addict mother I mean I'mjust naming some things out
there some traumatic event ofyou you know parents weren't
(08:01):
around as a child.
The list could go on and on.
Most likely they are not thepick of the litter to have the
relationship with.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Unless they've gone and done the work Extensive,
absolutely, and I have to sayyou know what?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I wish the world was better and I wish I could say
this more, but I don't see thata lot.
I would welcome that any day.
But I always see, by the timepeople realize right, because
the parents aren't there to sayI need to put you in therapy,
they're alcoholics or drugaddicts or not home.
So by the time these peoplerealize, or someone tells them
(08:40):
right, you need some help, Idon't need help, I'm not getting
.
Or they go and it's tooexpensive now, or it's too much
work and they never put the timein, and then the barrel just
keeps rolling and then they findsomebody as broken as them.
Do you know what I mean for therelationship to work?
Because, like you just said, ifyou find somebody secure, and
(09:05):
they're not going to put up withwhat I'm not putting up with it
.
There's no way I can't even getthat far with you.
But if you find somebody alittle bit broken and insecure
and they have a little bit of anin and they get you and then
you form that trauma bonds.
You know what I'm saying.
You know what I'm saying?
(09:29):
So most like it's two.
If you want to say people thathave had trauma correct in order
, there's not.
So don't let it right, don'tlet the other person tell you
you're the crazy one, I'm normal.
You know what I'm trying to say.
Like it takes two to tango,correct, sure?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
yeah, and it's really about asking yourself what part
of you is attracted to theperson.
Because if you're going forsomebody who, yeah, who's had a
traumatic childhood, is it thepart of you that needs to fix
right we talked about that lasttime too Like, do I need to fix?
Do I need to help this person?
Do I need to save this person?
(10:02):
So what part of you is kind ofbeing activated when you're
being attracted to this person?
Is I need to save this person?
So what part of you is kind ofbeing activated when you're
being attracted to this person?
Is it that healthy part of you?
You know that, oh, we'll make agreat, you know, relationship.
We'll, you know, be good toeach other.
We'll grow together.
Or is it?
You know, this person needswork and I'm going to be the
(10:22):
savior.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'm going to be the fixer, and that's how I get love
in return.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yes, and that fulfills me.
Right that does something forme.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, but you never get the love with that.
You know what I'm trying to say.
Most like in the ends, ladies,the person that's broken is not
capable of showing you the lovethat you think you're going to
receive.
They're broken.
It never comes full fold.
You fix.
You hear all these women.
I built them up.
I helped him build his business.
(10:54):
If it wasn't for me theywouldn't have this empire or
this family or this whatever,and then he goes on and he
cheats on me or he's divorcingme for his secretary.
You're never going to get whatyou deem, you think you should.
You know what I'm saying, whatyou think, the work you put in,
oh, I deserve.
Of course you deserve, you do,but you're not going to get it
from someone that's broken.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And is asking yourself are you looking for
love or are you looking for aproject?
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right.
Oh God, I'm exhausted.
Because a lot of it.
I'm exhausted.
I'm not looking for any project.
I can tell you that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
We do enough.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
We have enough on our plate.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Roberta the builder, you've got to be honest with
yourself, because it's notalways about the other person.
It's about you too and whatyou're really looking for you
have to take ownership.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yes, and also I think it's really important too,
because I see this a lot.
When we read um, a lot of womenwill say and I was guilty of
this myself, so I can tell youit does happen, because it
happened to me.
He wasn't that way in thebeginning because they changed
their best selves.
(11:59):
Yeah do you know what I'm saying.
So, so what I've learned,ladies, right, I always try to
bring a little real life rightinto this for me too, what I
realize and tell me if this isright or wrong.
You really have to look at thebackground of a person, where
they came from, if they'redivorced, a little bit of their
(12:20):
history, if they have children,there are other signs that could
lead you to say this isn't thebest pick.
And because people do try andhide things, but you can't hide
unless you're going to lie, ofcourse, your past.
So if you meet a man he's likewell, I'm adopted, you know, and
(12:42):
I was adopted into an alcoholicfamily.
I left at 18.
I never spoke to them again andI'm divorced with two girls I
don't speak to.
These are all red flags that youknow, even though they're
presenting as great job,handsome well-dresser, treating
(13:03):
you great.
I mean, nothing seems awry here.
Everything seems like oh, badluck, you know what I'm saying.
Oh, I can't blame you for, youknow, being adopted into an
alcoholic family.
Saying I can't blame you forbeing adopted into an alcoholic
family and I can't blame you,you had a horrible relationship.
Lots of people get divorcedright and they move on and
they're not horrible people.
(13:23):
But you know what I'm saying.
If all you have to look by whenyou meet somebody is their past
, I feel like you should takethat into account.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, and a question you can really ask is how did
that impact you?
How has that impacted you?
What did you learn from it?
Right, Right, Because there'sso much that the answer right
that you can get from whatthey're saying.
How did that impact them?
Did that lead them to be bitter?
Did it lead them to, you know,be angry at the world?
(13:54):
Or, you know, did they work onthemselves like you were saying
they worked on themselves.
They went to therapy.
You know, they got some EMDR.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
And they healed a lot of that childhood stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Right, but if you have to look at some red flags
to not get into the, you know,the trauma bond or the toxic,
like you were saying, what aresome things that you can kind of
address beforehand?
I think that's a big one right?
Address their family, how dothey treat their mother?
Right, all these things wetalked about in the other.
(14:27):
Because if they're lying andthey're presenting well or not
necessarily lying, but puttingon their best self, a lot of
women take that and roll with itand say, oh well, all that
other stuff was just bad luck.
You lost your job, you haven'tworked in a year, like we can
make excuses for anything.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I mean, we all to some extent or another, whether
we're secure or healthy, orinsecure and unhealthy, we put
our best foot forward, of course.
So how do you discern betweenthat and that kind of
love-bombing aspect?
And I think sometimeslove-bombing or those kinds of
(15:13):
behaviors that we wouldassociate with love bombing
might not actually be lovebombing, they might be genuine.
So, like, how do you discernbetween, like the manipulative
love bombing and just genuine,genuinely nice behaviors?
That's a kind of thing I feellike women question themselves a
lot.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I know I question myself sometimes.
Absolutely, and it's not alwaysclear cut.
Yeah, it's not always easy totell.
But the way that you work onthat is you strengthen your
relationship with yourself andso that you have that trust in
yourself.
Yeah, that's the core.
No matter what the other personis saying or doing, how they're
(15:56):
acting, it's your intuition,your gut, what you believe, the
energy that you feel when you'rewith that person.
Are you questioning yourself?
Do you feel secure around them?
So all of that is the innerwork of strengthening your trust
with yourself, being able totrust yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And being able to say I'm not going to do this
anymore, I'm walking away.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Exactly, I'm worth more.
Right Right your self-worth,I'm worth more.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And not being fearful of being alone, knowing that at
the end of the day it will befine.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
In the moment it might hurt, it might suck, but
you know that you'll be allright, right.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, and it's okay to be alone, certainly as we
know from this show.
Oh my gosh, that's funny.
Yes, and then also anothermaybe it could tie into this too
like narcissists.
So that is thrown around a lottoo right.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Trauma bond.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm in a relationship with a narcissist and I'm
trauma bonded and it's all kindof what is your definition, you
know, because everybody's is alittle bit different, right?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I just feel like every woman thinks every single
man is a narcissist, right,right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So how do we?
For the women that are inrelationships or trauma bonded?
I mean, like you said, numberone I like that is working on
yourself and you being able toget out of it.
It doesn't matter if they're anarcissist, if they're a serial
killer, what they are.
You have to be strong enough tobe able to pull yourself out of
it.
So you have to do the work,ladies, if you find yourself
(17:45):
repeating and getting into thesetoxic relationships and
becoming over and over againobviously it's your
responsibility to turn aroundsay I need some help yeah,
you're the common denominator inevery single relationship,
right, or you keep?
picking the same type of men,but for also people that are
like oh, he was a narcissist, myex-husband was an arso, blah,
(18:08):
blah, what's yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
you know, like if someone came to you and wanted
therapy from you.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
If we both came to you and then you're writing in
your notes and you said, okay,she's a narcissist, what would
we have to have in order for you?
I would not, I definitely wouldnot write that, no, but I'm
saying when someone comes, yes,someone comes to you oh please.
My ex would be like labeler.
What do you have to embody andproduce and show to be labeled?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Right, and that's the thing is like.
I don't like labels so much.
Right, because a label meansyou have to fit the entire
definition.
Right.
And when it comes tonarcissistic personality
disorder, there's specifictraits that they have to have
and they have to have all ofthem.
Right, and they say that only5% or less of the population.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
A very small percent of the population has all of
them yeah, so you could havetendencies towards yes and so
that's why I like narcissisticversus Behavior.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah Versus narcissist because we're just
putting the entire label on theperson, right, and then
sometimes that puts us at adisadvantage too, because now
we're just seeing that person asa narcissist.
They're labeled that way.
We're not going to be able tosee anything else Right, we're
not going to be able to seebeyond that, and so it really is
(19:32):
.
What you're looking for is thelack of empathy.
I think that's the mostalarming characteristic of
narcissists the lack of empathy.
Because how can you really bein a relationship with somebody
who doesn't have empathy?
That means there's no space foryou at all in the relationship.
There's no space for you.
They're not going to hold spacefor your feelings and what
you're going through.
(19:53):
That's the most alarming trait.
What people tend to focus on isthe grandiosity right, it's
like they think highly ofthemselves, and that could be
confidence, that could beinsecurity.
You have no idea what that isand what's really underneath,
and so the lack of empathy isthe biggest trait to kind of
look for.
Okay, and then also puttingother people down, right, like I
(20:17):
have to feel great and so Ihave to put people down.
That's also the alarming thingto look for, because if somebody
thinks they're the greatest,okay.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Right, that's different.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
That might not be as harmful as that lack of empathy,
the putting other people down,uh the need for control yes and
need for control and approvaland constant, you know,
affection accolades yeah yeah,admiration right.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So, ladies, if you think your man is a narcissist,
like everybody does those aresome traits that they at least
have to be showing in order foryou to be throwing that word
around.
Mm-hmm, absolutely.
And then here's another thing.
So once you realize I'm in thistrauma bond, you know I find a
(21:15):
lot of people don't go fortherapy.
Do you know what I'm saying?
And that's why there's thesecycles and we keep seeing this
over and over, because ifeverybody went and everybody got
fixed, there'd be no traumabond.
You know what I'm saying?
It wouldn't be a repetitivebehavior.
So what happens if somebody'slike I can't afford to go for
(21:37):
therapy?
Where do they go?
What do they do?
What happens if they're astay-at-home mom, right, and
they have kids and they knowthey're in this?
I see this a lot and they justdon't know where to go and they
don't know what to do.
What would you tell them shouldbe their first steps to do?
Like, what would you tell themshould be?
You know their first steps.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
It's a great question .
There's a lot of options outthere, right, that can be
affordable, whether it's goingthrough insurance or asking for
sliding scale fees.
People don't always know to askfor that.
You can ask therapists do youhave sliding scale fees?
Which is what?
What does that mean?
It depends on your income.
The fee will slide down.
Okay, yeah, so the therapistwill look at your income and
(22:16):
then slide the fee down to whatmakes sense for you.
There's also a lot of therapistswill do pro bono cases Really.
Yes, yeah, I do, yeah, okay, Ido.
I have a few of those on mycaseload as well as very low fee
cases as well, and you knowthere's certain companies that
(22:41):
offer low fees.
I know there's Open PathPsychotherapy, so sessions are
$30 or $60.
Okay, so I was one of thetherapists on Open Path, just to
.
I think it's so important to beable to be accessible and to
provide that for people who arelooking for affordable options.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Everyone deserves it right To be able to work on
themselves.
Personally, it's like a secondjob, trying to find someone who
takes your insurance, someonewho'll just pick up the phone.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Well, a lot is out of pocket.
A lot, I will admit.
A lot of therapists are out ofpocket, or even a lot of people
are maxed out with their patientload.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know they're not accepting new patients, so thank
you for sharing that Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And here's another thing that I find you know, so,
so, so important to find theright therapist for you, and not
only the right therapist foryou, that you learn to trust
right, because if you don'ttrust, you're not going to open
up and you're not going to behonest.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
But you know not every therapist is a great
therapist not, you know for you,a great fit for you, or?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
just a great therapist like you know.
Like what was that emdr?
That you do some people that doEMDR could be just starting and
not knowing really what they'redoing.
You know what I mean.
Did you guys talk about thatlast session?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
A little bit yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
And you know what I'm saying.
Like you also have to do yourresearch about what you know,
are you going for trauma therapy, you going for family
counseling?
Are you go like it matters?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
what you're going for .
Yeah, you really want to lookat the person's, not only
qualifications, the lettersbehind their name, but
additional trainings, right that?
They've participated incertifications, and that's the
thing with EMDR there'sdifferent levels.
You can have an EMDR trainedtherapist, and then they're
certified right, and thenthere's consultant and trainings
(24:34):
and then consultants.
So there's different levels andso it's just being aware and
finding somebody who's reallyqualified.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, but that's on the.
You know us to vet and to pickthe right therapist with the
right training, you know, forour needs and our, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, and use the free consult right, because then
you can really address allthose concerns before you get
into that first session andyou're letting out all your
trauma on the table, right,right.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
And so you want to be able to make sure that you're a
good fit, you feel comfortablewith this person and their
energy and you know you feellike you can open up and they're
a good match for you.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And then you know you set up that first session,
right, yeah, and because I dosee a lot of ladies out there
that are right, that will writein or that I'll see on our
different sites that we look atand they're like oh, I've been
seeing somebody for however longand it's not helping, whether
that could be marriagecounseling, family counseling or
(25:34):
trauma counseling, you knowwhatever.
So in that case it should behelping.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like the whole point, ladies,you should know that too.
Within how long should it?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
be helping.
Yeah, it's not an overnightthing.
It's not an overnight thingBecause this is stuff that has
accumulated for X amount ofyears.
You know no.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I don't mean overnight, like I've been seeing
them for two weeks andnothing's helping.
I mean that the women that aresaying oh, I've been going to
this therapist for two years andI haven't seen any change in my
child, or I haven't seen anychange in my.
It's not helping me personally,I don't feel any better about
something.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Time to find another therapist.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So how long give or take?
Like within what?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
eight months a year, of course it does it definitely
depends on the situation, andthat's why I truly believe in
EMDR, because it's proven to bethree times faster than talk
therapy alone.
Right and so, and I really dobelieve that talk therapy alone
is not enough.
I really do believe that talktherapy alone is not enough.
Like you need EMDR or IFS orbrain spotting, something that
(26:41):
goes above and beyond just talktherapy alone and accesses a
different part of the brain, thebody and the nervous system.
That's where you're going tofind faster results.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And that works with trauma bonding.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Oh, absolutely yes.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
So, ladies, if you find you're in a trauma bond,
you want to look for a therapistthat's certified in EMDR.
Absolutely Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And just could briefly go over what that is.
Again, just for people.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Oh, the EMDR.
Yeah, yeah, I know, but justfor everyone.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Absolutely so.
Emdr stands for eye movement,des desensitization and
reprocessing, and it is a traumamodality where we access the
limbic system of the brain.
So that's the part of the brainthat's feeling, sensing
memories, right, and we use eyemovement, just like in REM sleep
, right, the eyes dart back andforth and it processes memories.
(27:36):
You'll get all these dreams oflike previous events, and so
what we do is we do that in wakestate, so you're awake and
we're able to access traumamemories, and not only access
them but work through them,process them, get whatever's
stuck.
We get it unstuck.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
So when you're doing this, you're awake.
Are you remembering, like, arewe talking?
While you're doing this, emdrIs there, talk along with it, or
is it something?
Because I know last time youhad mentioned it was like a
light and your rapid eyemovement.
(28:17):
So while that's going on andyou're doing that, are you
remembering memories or is itjust something that sort of
works while you're not talking?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
How does so it's a combination of talk and just
following the light or followingthe fingers back and forth
while you're processing.
There's no talking Because wedon't want to get in the way of
the brain doing the work.
Yeah.
So the brain does all the workand we sit back and we kind of
watch.
But what the therapist will dois say you know, pause.
(28:47):
We'll pause the light, we'llsay take a breath, what did you
notice?
So we'll ask what did younotice?
Very open ended, it's not.
What did you feel?
What did you notice?
So we'll ask what did younotice?
Very open-ended, it's not.
What did you feel, what did youthink?
Just what did you notice?
And it could be anything thatthe person noticed.
Memories came up, bodysensations, emotions, and we'll
say, okay, go with that.
We'll say go with that andwe'll continue the processing.
(29:08):
So it's less talking and morethe brain healing itself.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay, and and more the brain healing itself, okay,
and could that be a littleuncomfortable for the person
that's doing it because of thefeelings and is that sometimes
do people get a little, just sothe viewers know what they're in
?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and it could.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And that's why we spend a lot of time in there's
eight phases of EMDR and wespend a lot of time in
resourcing before we go into theprocessing.
And resourcing is building yourstrength, is strengthening your
brain.
It's providing youvisualization techniques,
calming we do a lot of somaticwork, calming the body, so we
prep you before you're going tobe going into that deeper work.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Okay, yeah, good.
Good for our viewers to know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Might be giving you a call.
Yeah, good, good for ourviewers to know.
Yeah, absolutely Might begiving you a call.
I got issues two individualswho have experienced trauma and
they have maybe like anunhealthy dependence on each
other or something like that.
Does it always have to beabusive?
No, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
And you're right.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That's another aspect of it,right, because there's so many
definitions of trauma bonding.
That's another definition whereI think a lot of people on
social media are very aware ofis you have a similar traumatic
experience or maybe a similarchildhood experience and then
that bonds you together andbecause you can understand it,
(30:52):
you're aware of it, you can kindof help each other through it,
support each other through it,and that can be a trauma bonding
that doesn't always have to benegative.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah Right.
Well, I was kind of bringingthat up before too that what I
found like we had said thatsomebody that's secure in self,
where the attachment styles thatwe were talking about.
Usually, if they are securelike that, they usually don't go
for the you know what I'msaying Insecure.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
The insecure.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
They catch it before it even becomes the trauma bond.
So I do see that, you know, Ido see that a lot, especially
ladies.
You know you break up withsomebody, you get out of that
trauma bond.
We had discussed this last timebecause I see this all the time
too and this happens, I'm sure,with you.
It's happened with me.
You break up with somebody, youknow it wasn't good, you know
it was bad, and then they getwith somebody else and you hear
(31:55):
about it and you're like, oh myGod, they're treating them so
much better.
You know we've discussed thisbefore, but they're not.
It's going to come back at likenobody who has trauma could all
of a sudden, without anytherapy, become this secure.
Wonderful.
It doesn't work like that,right, you have to put in the
(32:16):
work.
So I feel like, with the traumabonding two people that are in
traumatic states, they bondtogether.
You know what I'm trying to say.
And then that's unhealthy too,but that could be.
They could be toxic together.
Do you know what I mean?
That happens a lot too right,right.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
And you don't always know on the outside what's going
on in the relationship.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Of course, yeah, yeah , you absolutely don't yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, so thank you so much for coming.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Is there anything else?
Speaker 1 (32:49):
we should know about trauma like any other aspects of
it.
So we learned how you get in it.
We learned the type of peoplethat would create it.
We learned what you need to getout of it therapy and work on
yourself and how to avoid it.
Secure right.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
Just make sure you have a great support network
around you, right?
Because if you're stuck insomething, if you're not able to
get out, you have people inyour corner who will help you.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Pull you out of it, tell you that's not normal, that
shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah, you don't deserve to be treated that way.
Absolutely Okay, good, greatWell, thank you so much we're
going to have to do gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
So much, thank you.
We're going to have to dogaslighting Another big one's
gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Right Another buzzword.
Everyone's being gaslit everyday, all the time.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Oh yes, that's another show we'll have coming
for you.
Ladies.
We'll explain when somebodysays they're gaslighting me all
the time.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
All right, great Well , thank you so much.
Thank you For coming back onour show, we enjoyed having you
and what will we have?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
uh, sadia's info in the show notes.
So if anyone wants, to contacther.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yes, we'll have her email, her phone number,
everything awesome, yeah,perfect.
Well, thank you for listening.
Ladies and gentlemen, we hopewe helped you with trauma bonds.
If you have any questions,please write in to us.
Sadia will be happy to answerany of your questions.
We're on Dating Daycare onFacebook.
(34:25):
What else are we on Instagram?
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, instagram, it's a private Facebook group, so
request us.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
We look forward to seeing you again.
Thank you for watching.
Bye.
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