February 5, 2025 • 51 mins
Unlock the secrets to healthier, more fulfilling relationships as we explore the depths of attachment theory with renowned trauma therapist Saadia Yunus. Discover how your early interactions with caregivers have shaped your attachment style and how this impacts your romantic connections today. We'll also delve into the nature versus nurture debate, examining how parental presence—or the lack thereof—can influence your relational dynamics.
Join us as we navigate the murky waters of relationship red flags and identity erosion. Learn how to maintain a secure sense of self despite external criticisms and the touch of insecurities from partners. We'll share practical tips on recognizing when you're losing yourself in a relationship and the crucial role of supportive friends and family in rebuilding your self-esteem. Sadia and I also highlight the impact of different attachment styles on your romantic life, setting the foundation for self-awareness and personal growth.
We'll wrap up with a crucial discussion on setting healthy boundaries and the importance of internal validation. From identifying toxic patterns to the challenges of societal expectations, we've got you covered. Gain insights into the significance of secure attachment and how it can nurture stronger, more balanced relationships. We'll hint at future explorations into topics like trauma bonds and navigating relationships with narcissistic individuals, ensuring you leave with the tools you need to reclaim your personal power in love.
Learn more about Saadia Yunus: https://www.saadiazyunus.com/
Join our private Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/771136888074777
Follow Melissa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missjayl/
Follow Melissa on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@healthychef1
Follow Allison on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paperdolllface/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Dating Daycare.
Today we have a great show.
We're going to help you onceagain navigate through those
jungles of jerks.
Ladies, I'm very excited fortoday.
Today we have Sadia Yunus onour show and she is a trauma
therapist.
But today we are going to talkabout attachment theory and
(00:27):
styles, which I'm really excitedabout because as I look over
social media and I look forthose fishbowl questions, I
always see you ladies talkingabout attachment styles and what
is this attachment style andhow it relates to relationships.
So today we have an expert on,so she is going to go over all
(00:48):
the attachment styles.
We're going to go over how itaffects the person, why they
have the attachment style, howit can help us with red flags
and how it will contribute ornot contribute to your current
or future or past relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm excited.
Okay, so tell us first, tell usyour background.
What's your background?
How long have you been working?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Where do you work?
What's the name of yourpractice like?
Give us a little rundown.
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm a trauma specialist.
I'm certified in EMDR, and soEMDR is an amazing trauma
modality.
That's research backed,evidence based, that it works
three times faster than talktherapy alone.
It takes a lot of extensivetraining and time.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I've heard about that Effort and energy.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I'm certified in EMDR.
I've been in private practiceon Long Island Deer Park over 10
years now.
This will be the 10th year.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, it's really exciting.
I work with individuals,couples and families in not only
New York but Michigan andFlorida as well, and I work with
a lot of trauma.
So developmental, childhood,relational trauma is a big one.
Huge now, yes, absolutely.
And marital, I would imagine,yes, absolutely All kinds of
relationship issues, whetherit's with a partner or family,
(02:11):
friends, in-laws, like you nameit.
Right, okay, great.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay, so let's get to our excuse me, our attachment
styles.
Explain to us.
Choking, because I wasn'treally big on the attachment
style my co-host is, who is inhere today.
She was like big, oh, they have, you know, avoidant, or they
have this one or that one, andI'm always like I'm more of like
(02:37):
what does it matter?
You know, you meet the guy inthe bar.
You're going to be like what'syour attachment style?
Or you can't buy me a drink.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Whoa, should I run now you know, so explain to us.
Maybe it'd be easier for theattachment style and what it is,
and then how we got you know.
We could go through each one.
That way our viewers canunderstand it and maybe it could
help you.
Ladies and gentlemen, when youmeet a person, we always try to
avoid the red flags.
That's what we're here for tohelp people get into healthy
relationships.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes, absolutely so.
Three main attachment styles,you know, sometimes people will
talk about a few different ones,but really the three main ones
secure, anxious, avoidant.
The fourth one is disorganized,but the ones that are really
the most common are the anxiousand avoidant.
Okay, we want to be secure,right, that's what we want.
(03:37):
To be Anxious and avoidant iswhat you'll see in some
relationships and that's whereyou kind of look for the red
flags, and so what it does is itcomes from our childhood, it
comes from really infancy, ourrelationship with our early
caregivers.
There's a lot of research on itwhere they actually videotape,
they record infants with theirmothers and see the impact of
(04:01):
that when the mother leaves theroom, when she comes back, and
how the child is responding tothat.
So that anxious attachmenthappens when the relationship
between the caregiver and thechild is unpredictable.
It's scattered, the parentwasn't there, they were there at
(04:22):
certain times and other timesthey weren't there.
So it's unpredictable, so itleaves the infant feeling
confused.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So is this something that would happen?
God forbid a death of a parent,a divorce of a parent, that
would leave the home, or couldit even be as light as the
mother was a stay-at-home motherand then had to go to work full
time?
Yes and the mother had to leaveor drop the kid in daycare?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, absolutely, and that's why there's not always
blame when it comes to how thisattachment style was developed,
because it can be something assimple as that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
The single mother now have to go back to work full
time and the kid goes intodaycare at six, eight months a
year.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yes, and not only that.
It's like the mother leaves theroom, goes to the kitchen to
cook and then the child feelsthat anxiousness right, the
anxiousness comes up in the bodyand the nervous system and
there's this sense of is mycaregiver going to come back?
That's where that insecuritykind of develops.
It's like are they going tocome back or are they going to
(05:28):
leave me?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And we see that in relationships right and that has
, but also does that come with.
You're born with that, so tosay.
So are some children born withmore of a just being?
You know, some people are moreanxious than others.
You know, are some childrenborn where the mother will leave
(05:50):
the room and maybe they're okaywhere the other child is not
okay and panic?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
stricken Right Absolutely, and that's a nature
versus nurture conversation.
Okay, right, I lean moretowards nurture, but there are
dispositions right, like ananxious disposition or a more
like independent disposition.
That's definitely there.
And at the same time there'sthe nurture aspect of what
happened in their relationshipwith their early caregivers, and
(06:18):
so that anxious attachmentcomes about when it's an
uncertainty of is my caregivergoing to come back, are they
going to take care of me, arethey going to love me, and then
that avoidant attachment is.
It happens when there's anuncertainty of whether they
matter to their caregiver, andthat happens a little bit, yes,
(06:39):
in infancy, but in toddlerhooddo I really matter?
Do my needs matter?
Are my needs going to be met bymy parent?
And so they find that, okay, myneeds are not going to be met,
and so I'm just going to yeah.
I'm just going to take care ofmyself and I'm not going to
depend on anyone.
I'm going to avoid people.
And then, as you grow older,it's a lot more of that
(07:02):
independence, but there'sconscious avoidance as well,
because I can't depend on people, I can't rely on people.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Sounds like my ex yeah.
Okay, yes, all of it is comingto light Right Right, which
would make sense because theywere adopted and they had an
alcoholic.
You know family, so what you'resaying I understanding now okay
, yeah, so it makes sense whythe person is like that, right?
so you know, it's funny growingup.
(07:32):
Well, now that I'm older, youalways say you wish you knew
then what you know now.
Right, and I've said this onthe podcast, I never thought it
mattered your family background,and when I say family
background I mean yourupbringing.
For instance, I come from a,you know, russian-italian
(07:52):
household.
Grandparents were there,cousins were there.
Everybody got along, nobody'sdivorced, have all the holidays
we celebrate, the Christian, theJew, every.
You know it was that type ofchildhood and I said, well, what
does it matter if that persondidn't have a childhood like me?
What does it matter if theywere adopted or came from an
(08:15):
alcoholic family?
Or or let's just say, thisisn't my instance, but maybe
we're abused, or but it does,absolutely, but it does.
So I see a lot of women, when welook for our fishbowl questions
, say things like you know, hisparents are divorced and his mom
(08:42):
had a really hard time andthere was a lot of fighting in
the household and a lot oftraumatic stuff.
For this, you know, should thatmatter to me?
Like, yes, it should matter toyou, you know, but a lot of
people don't realize that theywant.
They don't want to judge.
You know there's a lot of thatgoing on, I find today too.
You know, when it comes topicking me, oh well, I don't
(09:02):
want to judge.
He's just getting divorced andhas no money.
How is he taking you out todinner?
You know, I'm just saying, buta lot of people they want to
give grace and giving the gracehurts you and possibly your
children in the long run.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, absolutely, and it's grace is important right in
relationships and thatpreservation of self right,
because you matter too in therelationship.
Right, it's not only the otherperson, and I think what,
sometimes, often, what we do iswe focus so much on that other
person we lose ourselves or tryto fix them.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, are you fixing let's clear this up, ladies and
gents Are you fixing attachmentstyle?
You know what I'm saying.
When you meet, let's say,somebody out there, meets this
avoidant which, to me correct meif I'm wrong those two
attachment styles that you justmentioned seem like they're the
red flag.
It seemed like they're not theeasiest to deal with in the long
(10:00):
run.
Are you changing them?
As the girlfriend I meet you, Isay I watch dating daycare and
this guy has an avoidantattachment style.
He has exactly what youdescribe.
I'll change him, I'll make himfeel secure.
I'll show him that I'll put 10toes down in the sand For him
(10:22):
and he can trust me.
Does that work?
And then I'll ask 10 toes downin the sand for him and he can
trust me, does that work?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And then I'll ask you what is that inside of you that
you feel you need to be thefixer?
Right See, ladies?
So is there that insecuritythere, is there that anxious
attachment there that you've gotto fix someone, that you've got
to be the fixer.
Why is that need there?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But most likely, you're not fixing an adult.
Without being a therapist orqualified like you are, You're
not changing somebody'sattachment style.
Is it even possible for aregular human like me, who's not
certified in any type of youknow degree, to change that?
Not at all.
It's really about you workingdegree to change that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Not at all Right.
It's really about you workingon yourself and being that
secure attachment, and then theother person can start to
develop that secure attachmentas well, because then they feel
secure in the relationship withyou.
But that requires you to focuson yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And it requires if the other person has the
attachment, which one was theone where they're avoidant and
they avoidant attachment.
Yes, Even if you're the mostsecurest person in the world and
show all the right things, youknow, oh, they don't trust you.
They want to look on your phone.
Okay, here look on my phone.
(11:42):
Oh, I don't trust that.
You are where you say you'regoing to be.
You're going out where you'regoing.
Who knows I'm making somethingup and you here track me.
I am where I am.
That still doesn't guaranteethat that avoidant is going to
start to trust you.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Correct.
Yes, absolutely.
It requires that inner work itreally does Sitting with a
professional, with a therapist,to go deep down to really
understand where your attachmentstyle is coming from and then
to heal those childhood wounds.
It's a much deeper processBecause if you're in that
relationship where there's thered flags and now you're trying
(12:17):
to fix the other person andyou're doing all these things,
you're going to be lost in thatcycle and then in that cycle you
lose yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You're going to be lost in that cycle and then in
that cycle you lose yourself100%.
Yes, now what's the other?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
the secure right, the secure is the good attachment,
so to say the good attachmentstyle.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
The healthy, I should say it's healthy, yes, that
secure attachment is healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Where you have a sense of self, like you are your
own autonomous self, you'resecuring yourself and you can be
in that good and positiverelationship.
Right, that healthyrelationship.
It isn't that codependence onthe other person where I need
you to In order for me to feelsafe.
I need you in order for me tofeel worthy.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Accolades.
Oh my God, you're so beautifultoday.
Oh my God, your gray sweatermatches so good with your black.
Oh my God, you're that right.
You just need to get dressedand know.
I love this outfit.
I look great today.
I'm happy walking out of thehouse and we go, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, and we go yes.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And we find that a lot too.
Ladies, when I look on socialmedia and I get once again the
fishbowl questions, I find a lotof that too.
Women, my boyfriend, I gotdressed today I think we just
did a question on this.
I put on a winter sweater itwas a reindeer, you know, one of
(13:41):
those ugly sweaters and I lovedit and he made fun of me all
day and he was like yoursweater's, so ugly.
You're this, you're that sheneeded a secure attachment style
and she needed to turn around.
And I don't care if you thinkit's ugly, I love the sweater,
I'm wearing it and we're doneRight.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That's the secure part of you right, that you
don't.
Oh, you get your nails done andyou know someone says, oh what?
I don't?
I don't like that, I don't.
You look ridiculous, you would.
I like it, I like you don't.
You're not wearing it, youdon't know.
Am I embarrassing you?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know right, Instead, what oftentimes, if you
have that insecure, right senseof self and you're going to
start to question yourself 100%,You're going to change yourself
100%.
And mold yourself and then justto be agreeable, just to be
likable, right that peoplepleasing.
It's called the fawning traumaresponse Because you've learned
(14:37):
it from an early age that youhave to be agreeable.
You have to people, please inorder for others to accept you,
yes, especially women, yeah.
And then you end up losing yourentire personality and you don't
know who you are anymore,because you've worked so hard to
just be accepted by the otherperson.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Very true, we see that a lot.
I actually it's funny that yousay that, but I went through
like that's hitting home.
That's hitting home for me.
And you know what?
Tell me if I'm right or wrongabout this.
If you're secure and you dateor you're with or you marry
ladies and insecure or avoidant,they change you.
(15:17):
So the secure could through thetrauma responses could, if it's
a ladder and secure is here,you could melt your way down to
that.
But they never melt their wayup.
They stay the same and, likeyou said, like I was always.
Like you're wearing that, yournails look like that, your hair,
and then I'd be.
And then I started questioningmyself like do I really look
(15:39):
like that out and like be?
And then I started questioningmyself like do I really look
like that out?
And put like do other peoplesaying that about me?
Like I don't want other peopleto think that this shirt's too
tight right or my boobs are toobig, like I don't want to come
off like that and then Iquestion it's very slow and then
by the time the person leaves,it took me two years to come
back to the secure person that Iam, when I'm like screw you.
(16:03):
You don't like it, walk theother way.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, good for you, congratulations.
Well, yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, but we started this podcast because we
wanted to help women not get tothat point.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's very hard to recognize that you're in a
downfall when you're in it Right, absolutely, and that's why
it's so important to have yourpeople around you.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
If you're in this relationship where you're slowly
losing yourself, you have thosepeople who recognize that and
they start to let you see it,because oftentimes you can't see
it Correct and so people willpoint it to you like hey, you're
acting different, or what'sgoing on?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Or you look fine.
I love your nails.
What's wrong?
People you respect people.
You trust maybe your parents ora cousin or best friend, right,
that you can go to.
And we said this with ourdomestic violence episode.
That was even available.
If the, if people are not sure,if you're not sure, if you're
(17:05):
going crazy or you, this isreally a problem.
You need to ask a family, youknow, do you?
Do you think the shirt's tootight?
Like do I look?
And of course, everybody'sgonna have their own opinions,
but most of the time somebodycould steer you in the right way
.
Like what are you talking?
You've always looked, you'vealways dressed like that.
What's the problem?
And of course, everybody'sgoing to have their own opinions
, but most of the time, somebodycould steer you in the right
way.
Like what are you talking?
You've always looked, you'vealways dressed like that.
What's the problem?
Now You're fine.
(17:26):
It's your style, right?
You want purple hair.
You've always had purple, green, blue hair.
It's not my style.
You'll never see my hair purple, but it doesn't make you bad.
Yeah, exactly, it's your style.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yes, and it's so important to ground yourself in
that and then say that toyourself.
So when you have the peoplearound you who say you're
beautiful, you look amazing,you've got to be able to say
that to yourself, right?
So you look in the mirror andthen you say that, and that's
how you challenge those negativebeliefs and negative thoughts
about yourself.
I do look good, I am proud ofmyself, I do love myself.
(18:02):
And then ask do I really evenbelieve that?
And if I don't believe it, thenI've got to do some work.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I've got to see a therapist.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I've got to work on myself and build myself back up
again.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And how do we now?
Let's talk about this.
Now we know the attachmentstyles right, Secure, avoidant
and fearful, Anxious, Anxious.
And what was that other onethat you said was rare?
It was disorganized.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
What's that now?
So that's like a mix betweenanxious and avoidant.
It's even worse, ladies.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So I guess we don't want to go down that road.
Let's just stick with theothers.
Right, we don't want to getdown to the bottom of the floor.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, not at all Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Now we're out or we're on these dating websites,
we meet a man, we listen, wewrite down, we have our notes,
we know our attachment styles,we know how you describe them,
how the person should be, and wesay, ooh, this person might be
(19:01):
an avoidant.
What should we do?
Or, oh, secure, we know you'refine, this man is fine, he owns
his own business, he's secure inyou know, whatever it is, he's
got a great family background.
Let's just paint a picture.
You know parents together 45years, great, happy talks to his
(19:23):
cousins, his aunts and unclehas nice friends.
You know, seems secure.
All right, that guy's good.
We don't need to worry aboutthat guy.
Right, because you could goalong, you could date the guy,
go out for a drink and see ifyou mesh together.
Right, there's no way he'sgoing to harm you, so to say, as
we're saying.
I mean, he could be a lunatic,but you have to go see.
(19:45):
But now what happens?
If you meet the man that's likehi, I'm divorced twice, I got
two kids.
I was adopted.
My father was an alcoholic.
I haven't talked to my sisterin five years.
I'm just naming differentthings, ladies.
I haven't talked to my sisterin five years.
I'm just naming differentthings, ladies.
I don't talk to my sister orbrother.
I'm not close to my mother.
(20:07):
I love that one.
I run with that Never again.
I never make the same mistaketwice.
You know, when all thesedifferent and I'm sure you see
it in your practice women cometo you with all these red flags,
how do they know they'reactually red flags?
What should we look out for?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And that's the thing, because attachment it comes out
in communication, it comes outwhen there's a conflict.
Okay, explain that further.
Yes, tell us, give us examples.
Yes, you may not know by allthese outward things, right?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
They may hide it.
Yeah, whims, if they don't tellyou about any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, so a person's circumstances, they might have
all of those, but then they'resecurely attached.
Have they done the inner workis what you want to know.
Have they done the inner work?
Have they been in therapy?
Have they worked on themselves?
Have they done thatself-development work where now
they know that they've got towork on their communication?
They have to learn how toexpress their emotions, listen
(21:09):
to emotions, how?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
does that come out?
So how does it come out withthem expressing their emotions
and with a fight, like you said,like?
Can you give us an example ofhow Do they get disrespectful?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
right, is there yelling or throwing things or
just saying I'm not dealing withthis and going into the other
room?
Right, that would be thatavoidance, I'm not dealing with
this, I'm going into the otherroom.
Or insecure would be thingslike okay, I knew you didn't
care about me, I don't matteranyways, you never needed me.
(21:41):
Yes, and so all of these things.
That's where you really knowwhen there's a conflict, when
there's a disagreement, you'llsee these signs and are they
able to come back and thenrepair.
That's the important piece too,because sometimes we say things
right and arguments and thingscome up, but do we come back and
repair and apologize and try tomake that relationship work?
(22:05):
That's the key.
How do they communicate intimes of distress?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay.
So that's the big red flag whenyou're having the fight or you
don't agree on something andseeing how they handle it, are
they calm, cool and collective?
Work it out with you, peace it.
Oh, you want to go here, Idon't want to go there, or you
know, I mean it could be family,right?
When you're dealing within-laws.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right that type of thing, how they react.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yes, and how they treat you in an argument, right,
how are they treating you, howare they speaking to you?
What are they saying to you?
That's what you want to payattention to that you aren't
being emotionally harmed.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right, and how they speak to you and how they speak
to others is normally howthey'll speak to you.
You know, because I see a lotof women on here too.
Ladies, let's go over this,because this is flashing a light
bulb in my head too.
I see a lot of women on heretoo.
Ladies, let's go over this,because this is flashing a light
bulb in my head too.
I see a lot of comments likethis the woman gets strong
enough to break up, right,because all these things are
(23:09):
going on.
You've lost yourself, he's nottreating you nice, whatever.
And then, whether you'regetting divorced, he cheated or
whatever, and then the women areso scared, which I understand.
I understand this concept.
They say, oh my God, he met anew girl and he never treated me
like that.
(23:29):
Look at how he's treating her,look at how.
You know, is it possible thatit was me and that he treated me
horribly?
But he's going to treat herbetter?
No, it's not possible, andshe's going to tell you why.
But this is a bit, and I get it.
It's hurtful.
Hey, listen, I have to break uptoo.
(23:51):
We're all human and I talkabout it on here all the time,
and you know that in the back ofmy mind I had that thought Is
he going to treat the next?
He treated me badly, but is hegoing to treat her better and
get the better part of him?
Maybe I didn't go this far, buta lot of women will say maybe
if I did change my nails, maybeif I didn't wear the tight shirt
(24:18):
that he didn't like because shedoesn't.
And look, he's treating hernicer and he's taking her out to
dinner or whatever he's doing.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That is portraying being nicer and that's where you
know that the relationship wasnot good for you.
Because you are questioningyourself.
That's when you know it wasn'tgood for you.
Because you're questioningyourself, You're saying I should
have, should have, should have.
Every time you hear the wordshould, you are being harsh on
yourself, You're judgingyourself.
(24:49):
That's self-criticism.
I always tell everybody whenyou hear the word should, change
it to I choose to or I choosenot to.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Right, like don't make the same mistake twice yeah
.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Correct it.
I chose not to Right Change mynail.
It's not for me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, it's not for me .
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, I chose not to do it because it's not for me.
That's okay too, and I think alot of women have a problem
saying that when they come fromthese toxic relationships.
Yes, you know, I like my hairpurple.
You're allowed to say that Ilike my long nails.
Guess what?
I'm allowed to say that If it'snot, if you don't like it, no
(25:25):
one's forcing you to be with me.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, and if a relationship doesn't make room
for you exactly as you are, thenyou ask yourself if that
relationship is really servingyou at all.
Right, it's not healthy.
No, it's got to allow room foryou to be who you are exactly as
you are.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So what else should women look out for?
Because, also, you do so.
Those are the attachment styles.
That's what we want to look outfor, really important.
Ladies, once again, right, whenyou're in conflict, how they
treat you during an argument,how they treat other people, and
if they've done the inner workand if they've never had therapy
(26:04):
.
What about this question?
He promises he's never going todo it again and that he's going
to change.
Is that even possible?
90% of the time?
What is?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
he doing to make the changes right it?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
himself, like you know, sitting in his bedroom and
reading what he should.
You know that's our.
You know that is a good point Ialways say once you're in your
adulthood, right very hard tochange without constant therapy
yeah, very hard, that's why wehave therapists and that's why
they're experts and a lot ofwomen find themselves on the
(26:39):
Merrick go round of.
He said he's going to change.
I believed him, gave him theopportunity to change.
He didn't change, but he saidhe'll never do it again.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And he said he'll never do it again and he needs
counseling, yeah, and I'd becurious as to what keeps you in
that relationship with a personwho's refusing to change.
What is it inside of you that'skeeping you there?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Right, and that's where the work is Right and a
lot of women say I don't want tostart all over again.
I have young kids and I'm astay-at-home mom and I have no
money and I have nowhere to go.
I read that every day for you,ladies.
I really do.
You know, we could barelyafford what we're affording now.
How am I going?
Yeah, it is.
(27:25):
It's not easy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
It was very scary.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Very scary.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I've worked with countless women who it's helping
them to leave toxicrelationships, and it's not easy
and those doubts come up, butit's about strengthening your
relationship with yourself sothat you know that you will be
able to handle anything Right.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Right, Especially when you're a mom you have to.
Right.
That makes it even more common.
When you're kind of I alwayssay, if I had no kids I wouldn't
care.
There's some things youwouldn't care it makes it easier
just to leave.
It makes it easier.
I wouldn't care what he says orwhat he does or what the courts
do to me, but when you haveyoung kids and they're going to
(28:18):
be, you know, affected, ithinders, you know, it holds back
a lot of women from doingwhat's the healthy thing is to
do.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Absolutely, and there's so much research on how
good it is for the kids whenthat happens, when they leave
that toxic relationship.
And now they're in maybe twohealthy homes right Right, or
one really healthy home and soit's actually good for the kids
to see that and they learn mymom was strong, she didn't put
(28:49):
up with crap, she had that valuein herself and it teaches them
to have that value in themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Right, because you don't want.
I always say this too you don'twant the children growing up
thinking that's their standardnorm.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, you don't have to say anywhere you feel
uncomfortable.
You don't have to say anywherewhere you're not valued yes, and
it teaches them that message,yep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And then what are some?
I always like when we havepsychologists and therapists and
people in.
I always like to say what isyour opinion on in today's day
and age and dating or marriages?
Well, once you're married,you're already affected, but
what are the red flags?
What are red flags that you seein dating nowadays that you
have these women coming in ormen, for that matter, that now
need are broken or know brokenor have been affected by these
toxic relationships Like?
(29:43):
What advice would you give?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Right and red flags.
We can go on forever, right.
There's so many but it's reallyabout being grounded in yourself
so that you can recognize them.
And again, it's about if theother person is focusing on
themselves most of the timeright, and their own feelings
and what they're going through,and they're not concerned about
you, your feelings, yourthoughts.
(30:07):
That's really what you'relooking for.
Are they able to care for meand hold space for my feelings,
my anger, you know, whateverelse it is that I'm feeling?
Are they able to hold space forthat and make room for it and
honor it?
And if they're focusing on theirown feelings, like you made me
(30:28):
feel this way, or you didn'tlove, you don't love me, you
don't care for me, those kindsof things that comes out that's
where you're, you know it raisesthat red flag you've got to
think about.
Comes out that's where you're,you know it raises that red flag
You've got to think about.
Are they in it for themselvesor do you matter?
(30:48):
You want to find a relationshipin which you are priority and
you matter and they're able tohold space for you and
everything that you're feeling.
And if they're not, then that'ssomething to question.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And also that I also.
We always talk about the, the5050.
That's a big thing.
Now these men are turningaround and being like well, you
know 5050 this and 5050 that,and I'm not paying for the date
and I'm not.
You know, you're, you have twokids, you need to cook and clean
and work a 50 hour week and dothis and this, that's not what
(31:17):
you're looking for.
Ladies.
A 50 hour week and do this andthis, that's not what you're
looking for.
Ladies, that's not what shejust did.
That's not somebody caringabout your well being.
And you know like, oh my gosh,you know you're working.
You could you have two kids.
Let me help you, let me cleanon Sundays with you.
Let me hire you a cleaning ladyonce.
(31:39):
I don't care what it is, butlet me help you.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, generosity, generosity In love, in care, in
money, you know that's whatyou're really looking for.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Not, it's your job, that's what you're supposed to
do and create a list.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Create a list of what qualities are important to you
and what are non-negotiables,what is something you'll never
agree to.
Create that for yourself andthen put that down, and so that
you know exactly what you'relooking for and what you're not
willing to compromise on.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And you should.
I always say this ladies, youshould never compromise.
A lot of women compromise.
I see it all day long.
That's another reason why wecame out with this podcast.
That's a big one.
Compromise A lot of people andI've done it myself.
I'm guilty.
I compromised.
I used to have a boundary, whenI was younger, of I would never
(32:27):
date a man who had kids, and Ikept that boundary for so long
until I met my ex and I broke it.
I broke it because I wasgetting older, I was getting
nervous.
Now I was in my upper 30s, youknow they didn't live in the
state they lived, you know, faraway, and I said, well, it's
different because they don'tlive here and you know I'm older
(32:52):
.
Now All the people, all the menI meet, most likely, are going
to have young kids.
Like I let my boundary go andI'm telling you right now I
should have never.
I should have never.
So write those boundaries downand you stick with them.
I always say you have to besecure with being alone.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Isn't that a big one?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm sure you see a lot of women and men that are so
scared to be alone.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes, and that's where the work is right.
Do the work.
What is keeping you from beingafraid?
Right Companionship sex.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I hear it all.
I hear I will die alone with mydog, rather than no, really I
say it, I say to my father allthe time.
I think I might die alonebecause I will never again
compromise my standards andwants and needs.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Just to have a relationship.
Yeah, and there's alone, andthen there's lonely, right, you
can be alone, and then you haveyour dog and you have people who
love you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I have tons of people and friends.
I'm not lonely.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
They're around you and you have yourself, your
relationship with yourself, themost important relationship, it
is.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Can you be home alone on a Saturday night, read a
book, take a nice bath and watchsomething on Netflix and be
okay?
Yes, or are you sitting there?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
That sounds amazing, anxious right, me too.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Or are you sitting there anxious, like where can I
go?
What can I do?
I'm lonely.
This is horrible.
This is you know.
I see a lot of moms.
Another thing I see ladies.
(34:39):
I see a lot of moms who are inthe process of getting divorced
or never, you know, not married,like I wasn't married, and get
you know a partner's leaving andthey say, oh my God, mom's out
there Every other weekend.
My kids are going to be gone.
I'm beside myself crying, Idon't know what to do.
How do you ladies do this?
Of course I get it.
You're used to having your kidsall the time, unless you took
(35:00):
them to a friend's or agrandparents and it was on your
terms.
I get that.
But I always comment listen,get a little, just a little bit
of therapy, and you know, workjust a little bit.
A little bit, not a lot and workon yourself, because I could
name.
I don't have that, my kidsdon't.
(35:21):
I always have my kids, so I'mon the other side.
Do you know what I would do ona Friday to a Monday without
both of my children?
Right, I mean from fun to notfun, laundry, catch up on movies
I've wanted to watch, maybeeven go to an adult movie at the
(35:41):
movie theater, because I'malways there.
I mean I could name eight,rearrange my.
I mean give my dog a bath, goout with my cousin for a drink
Like I could name eight.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
My weekend would go so fast I wouldn't know what to
do with myself, right, and youmentioned that feeling that
people get sometimes, right,that anxiousness of like I can't
be alone.
And that's why not only therapybut EMDR is really healing,
because we bring down thatanxiousness so you don't have to
(36:16):
feel it anymore.
And so what it does is it goesbeyond just talk therapy, right,
it tackles that limbic systemof the brain where that
anxiousness is coming up.
Right, you're alone on thatSaturday night and the
anxiousness is coming up, yourheart rate is increasing, you're
feeling energy in your chest,you know your palms are sweating
.
All of that yeah, it's panic,it's all of that is your body
(36:39):
reacting to being alone, becauseone time in your past, or many
times, it did not feel safe tobe alone.
And so that's where it comesfrom.
It doesn't come out of nowhereit comes from a previous
experience.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So if you were alone.
There's the childhood thingagain.
Yes, you were two years old,you were adopted.
Yep, you were enforced.
Whatever it might be, youlooked around.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Your parents weren't there, and so that anxiousness
in your body showed up.
And now you're 43, you're aloneon the couch and that same
feeling is coming up,Interesting.
And so what we do in EMDR is wetarget that original memory and
we bring down all of thosesymptoms that the body is
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Now, does EMDR work?
Let's say you have a boyfriendand he is the one that's giving
you anxious feelings.
As long as that boyfriendcontinues to do it, does that
have to be removed for the EMDRto work, or can the EMDR work
alongside what's causing it, soto say it?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
can work alongside.
The trigger is there.
Obviously it makes it moredifficult, but it can, because
it's your body and nervoussystem that we're healing.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
So it will be less triggering.
So you learn how to deal.
Also, god forbid the women thatare like, oh, I'm with the
narcissist and I'm feeling allthese feelings.
Emdr, then, might also be anoption for you.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It's a tool also to deal with the narcissist.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Is that correct?
It's not only a tool, it is ahealing mechanism so that your
body won't respond in the sameway.
It won't have those anxiousfeelings, your nervous system
will be calmer in the person'spresence.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And so you'll be better able to handle.
Right Once you have the EMDRand it heals that in your body,
you're better able to handleconversations, conflict, Whereas
before maybe you did go into apanic, Right Now you're calm,
cool, collected and now you canchoose.
You're basically in yourpersonal power to choose how to
(38:54):
respond.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And how is that?
If you want to say performed,given in a setting, like is it
the same?
I'm sure people that aren'tfamiliar with it are going to
wonder is that you know?
What do you like?
Is it through a client talkingwith you?
Is there a special method?
Is there a machine Like how isit done?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Did you hypnotize them?
You machine, how is it done?
Did you hypnotize?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
them.
How is it done?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Absolutely.
So we use eye movement becauseEMDR stands for eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing.
So we use eye movement.
So it's like rapid eye movement, kind of like while we're
sleeping, right In REM sleep,and it's processing past
memories while we're sleeping.
So we do this in a wake stateand we use eye movement so we
(39:40):
can use a machine, we can useour fingers so that you follow
it along, and so your eyes arerapidly moving from left to
right and it's processingthrough the memory, it's healing
the impact of that memory inyour brain, your body and your
nervous system.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Oh, interesting.
Yes, Okay, because I have heardabout it but I didn't know.
Also, I'm sure many of youdidn't know how it was
administered.
So to say yeah, absolutely Okay, great.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
So you'll see an EMDR trained or EMDR certified
therapist.
I'm EMDR certified and so Ihave the light machine.
It's a machine that you couldjust follow the light back and
forth in my office, evenvirtually.
It works as well and it doesmiraculous things.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Wow, that's great to know and does it also work for
those mothers that want to knowDoes it work all ages?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Children, teenagers, adults, grandparents, I mean
everybody.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Absolutely everybody.
I work with infants to.
You know the end of thelifespan.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
You know, absolutely anybody.
It can work.
That's good to know, very goodto know.
Yeah, it's research-backed,evidence-based.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
It works.
It's three times faster thanjust talk therapy alone, because
it goes to a part of the brainthat talk therapy doesn't go to.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It can't hit, yeah, can't hit, yeah absolutely Like
those young type of traumaticevent you know past back Exactly
yeah.
So, ladies, what have welearned today?
We have learned that it allstems from your childhood, and
the person's background reallydoes matter.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It just does when we're talking about
relationships yes, right, yes.
And who you're going to marryand who you're going to live
with and who you're going tohave children with, right.
I always tell my daughter thatand my son that who you marry
and have children with is one ofthe most important decisions of
your life.
So for those youngins that arewatching, it is right, it is one
(41:31):
of the most important.
It could derail your life tothe left and make it miserable,
or it could go to the right andmake it wonderful.
It could be a wonderfulexperience or it could be an
absolute horrific experience.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Right, absolutely.
And it starts with yourrelationship with yourself.
Yep, build that up, strengthenthat up, make sure that you are
secure in in yourself and thenyou'll know, when you're in a
relationship, what's okay andwhat's not okay.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Mm-hmm, yeah, and then when you meet somebody, you
won't have all these questionsand you know what.
Here's the thing too.
Like maybe some people thatneed some therapy and some women
are like, how am I gonna knowwhen I'm there?
Like, how am I gonna?
And I'm telling you, ladies,you're absolutely gonna know
(42:22):
when you're there, becauseyou're just gonna be like, how
am I going to know when I'mthere, like, how am I going to?
And I'm telling you, ladies,you're absolutely going to know
when you're there, becauseyou're just going to be like
yeah, no, and not care.
It's almost like you don't carewhat people think anymore.
You know where before you werelike, oh my God, like I said, is
the shirt too tight or what'syou know?
What's his new wife going tothink of me?
Or what's his mother going tothink of me now?
Or our mutual friends set us up.
What's the mutual friend?
(42:42):
You know you have all these.
What are my kids going to thinkof me?
What?
All these questions?
Right, questioning yourself,what is everybody going to think
of you?
You get to a point where, like,where I am, where you're like,
you know what.
Everybody could go shake it tothe left.
This is you know and you standyour ground and you're not
scared to say you'll tellanybody.
(43:02):
Like I always say to you,ladies, you should all know this
by heart right now, what is mynumber one rule?
And watch me break this rule oneday and, like everybody, be
like I will not date a man withyoung kids, and that is the pot
calling the kettle black.
Oh boy, because I have youngkids, I have a nine and 10 year
old I will not, and I and?
But that's crazy, what do you?
(43:24):
You can't do that.
That's the pot calling thekettle black.
There's a line in the sand,ladies, where I say good, I
don't care, I'll die alone, I'mnot doing it, you know what?
That's my, that's how you know.
You're there right, when youcould take anything and say I'm
not defending it, it is what itthink, what you want.
Yeah, call me what you want.
(43:45):
Crazy, lunatic this.
That.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
It's good for me, yeah.
And what makes you care aboutwhat other people think in the
first place?
It's that insecurity.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
It's questioning yourself because you rely on
external validation rightinstead of the internal inside
of you Right, and that's theplace to do the work.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And of course nobody wants people to think they're
crazy or mean right.
Most of us want to be viewed asgood, morally, ethically, great
parents, great wife.
We like to be liked Absolutely.
We like to be liked Absolutely.
We like to be liked Absolutely,yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But it's being able to set those boundaries right
and not back down.
Some people have such a toughtime even setting boundaries
right, even speaking up forthemselves.
Very hard Because of the fearof how the other person will
respond, or they're not going toget anybody.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, what happens if my boundaries are set?
I have friends male friends allthe time that make fun of me
laughing and they go yourboundaries and standards.
You're looking for a unicorn?
And I go.
I may be, you're very right, Iam looking for a unicorn.
But guess what?
That's okay, I'll die alone.
(44:52):
I'll die alone If I don't findthe unicorn.
And it doesn't exist.
They're like, well, you'regoing to get older and then
nobody's going to be interested.
That's okay.
Yeah, why?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
settle.
Why settle with somebody whodoesn't fit you?
Speaker 1 (45:06):
right, that's okay.
Who doesn't treat you right?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's valuing yourself enough to know that you deserve
the best.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
But you really have to work on yourself.
You know you have to work onyourself.
You don't get that way bychance, you know.
And for those you know andhere's another big thing I see a
lot of oh well, my husbanddoesn't believe in therapy, my
wife doesn't believe, you know,I'm sure they don't, they won't.
I'm sure you get clients thatare there alone because the
(45:40):
other one won't join them orwon't be agreeable or won't, or
comes and then fires them andwalks out.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I'm sure you've seen it all, I'm sure this happens
all day long.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You know, therapy is a great thing.
I'm going to advocate for it.
You know if you're open andyou're willing to change and
reboot your computer.
That's how I you know.
You're rebooting your computerto think a different way.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, and I tell everyone if your spouse, your
partner, is not willing to go,then you go, because you will
benefit so much and it actuallyhelps the relationship as well.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
So if that you know, if that's your problem, oh, I
want to go, but he won't go.
You go, you go, you go, andthen maybe, when he sees you go
or she sees you go, they'll go.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, absolutely, and it makes a difference Even when
you change.
Just think of it as like twoparts, right?
When you change one part of it,the other part will slowly
change or mold.
There'll be a difference andyou'll see it.
Yes, great, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Is there anything else we should add about the
attachment styles or anythingthat you think they should know?
I think we covered a lot ofground.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yes, I think we covered a lot of ground.
It's really just knowing whatyour own attachment style is too
, and knowing the steps to getto that secure attachment.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
So everybody wants to be in the secure area?
Yes, absolutely, and anythingbelow that needs work.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Mm-hmm 100%.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Because it will cause issues.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, it'll wreak havoc on your life and your
relationships and you'll reallylose yourself.
So secure attachment is beingfully grounded in yourself,
which is absolutely essential.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
And do you find one last thing Do you find that most
people just through your dailylife as a therapist I'm sure you
can pick things out quickerthan than us then we could see
them or pick things that maybewhen your kids bring home a
friend or you know, I'm justsaying or you meet a meet
somebody out there, school momor whatever it is you're meeting
Do you find most people aresecure or most people are on the
other?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
spectrum.
That's a good question, becauseI was looking into the research
and it was saying the majorityof people are secure, and I was
actually pretty surprised.
Yeah, I'm like, where did thatresearch come from?
Right, because I find that mostpeople are anxious and there's
a lot of people that areavoidant as well, and oftentimes
the anxious and the avoidantwill find themselves in a
(48:04):
relationship.
Oh, what happens with that?
They will get into a whole lotof trouble, right?
I mean, there's a lot ofrelationships like that.
I see a lot of couples, I workwith a lot of couples, and it's
often the case, right, and it'swhat we call the
pursuer-distancer, so one personis pursuing, the other person
is distancing, and so it's thisconstant dance.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That's where that trauma bond?
Is that where that comes in?
Yes, the trauma bond.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh, that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I got to come back for that, okay, no, definitely
I'd love to have you backbecause we want to hit trauma
bonds, ghosting gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
What is narcissism really?
And survivors of narcissisticabuse.
It's so important to have thatsupport network and talk about
it more so we can recognize it.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yes, that would be wonderful.
We'll definitely have to dothat.
Where we can hit each topic,discuss it, because a lot of
people will say, oh, that word'sused so much.
I'm not a narcissist or youknow.
People are throwing the wordaround all the time and it's a
very big word now.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yes, absolutely, and there's clear signs.
You know, you just really haveto know, to really study it, to
know what is actually narcissism, right, okay?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, but that is so if the avoidant and the anxious
get together that's where yousee the crazy relationships.
Right Then, if you get a secureand an anxious, or a secure and
an avoidant, that's where yousee the.
I would assume I was with anarcissist.
(49:40):
You know what I mean the crazyone side.
You know they need help.
We're all okay over here.
So there's a lot of differentcombos to think about.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Absolutely yeah, okay .
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Well, ladies, that's it for today.
I hope that helped, and we'redefinitely I'm definitely going
to invite you back on and we'regoing to go over gaslighting,
because that is a huge one.
I think that'll be a reallygood follow-up to this.
How do you know you're beinggaslighted?
And we can do trauma bonds?
Yes, absolutely, and we couldgo do ghosting.
(50:14):
Ghosting coming back, ghosting,coming back, ghosting, coming
back.
See that all the time from you,ladies.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, self-abandonment, that's a huge
one, okay, we could put that inwith ghosting.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah.
So, ladies, gents, if there'sone of those that you want to
hear about quicker than theother, please do write in
comment on our podcast.
On the bottom, you can email us, or we have a Facebook group,
dating daycare, or Instagram.
Get in touch with us somehowsome way and let us know, and I
(50:47):
hope you enjoyed the episode.
Have a great day and we willsee you next time on dating
daycare.
Welcome to Dating Daycare.
Today we have a great show.
We're going to help you onceagain navigate through those
jungles of jerks.
Ladies, I'm very excited fortoday.
Today we have Sadia Yunus onour show and she is a trauma
therapist.
But today we are going to talkabout attachment theory and
(00:27):
styles, which I'm really excitedabout because as I look over
social media and I look forthose fishbowl questions, I
always see you ladies talkingabout attachment styles and what
is this attachment style andhow it relates to relationships.
So today we have an expert on,so she is going to go over all
(00:48):
the attachment styles.
We're going to go over how itaffects the person, why they
have the attachment style, howit can help us with red flags
and how it will contribute ornot contribute to your current
or future or past relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm excited.
Okay, so tell us first, tell usyour background.
What's your background?
How long have you been working?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Where do you work?
What's the name of yourpractice like?
Give us a little rundown.
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm a trauma specialist.
I'm certified in EMDR, and soEMDR is an amazing trauma
modality.
That's research backed,evidence based, that it works
three times faster than talktherapy alone.
It takes a lot of extensivetraining and time.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I've heard about that Effort and energy.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I'm certified in EMDR.
I've been in private practiceon Long Island Deer Park over 10
years now.
This will be the 10th year.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, it's really exciting.
I work with individuals,couples and families in not only
New York but Michigan andFlorida as well, and I work with
a lot of trauma.
So developmental, childhood,relational trauma is a big one.
Huge now, yes, absolutely.
And marital, I would imagine,yes, absolutely All kinds of
relationship issues, whetherit's with a partner or family,
(02:11):
friends, in-laws, like you nameit.
Right, okay, great.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Okay, so let's get to our excuse me, our attachment
styles.
Explain to us.
Choking, because I wasn'treally big on the attachment
style my co-host is, who is inhere today.
She was like big, oh, they have, you know, avoidant, or they
have this one or that one, andI'm always like I'm more of like
(02:37):
what does it matter?
You know, you meet the guy inthe bar.
You're going to be like what'syour attachment style?
Or you can't buy me a drink.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Whoa, should I run now you know, so explain to us.
Maybe it'd be easier for theattachment style and what it is,
and then how we got you know.
We could go through each one.
That way our viewers canunderstand it and maybe it could
help you.
Ladies and gentlemen, when youmeet a person, we always try to
avoid the red flags.
That's what we're here for tohelp people get into healthy
relationships.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yes, absolutely so.
Three main attachment styles,you know, sometimes people will
talk about a few different ones,but really the three main ones
secure, anxious, avoidant.
The fourth one is disorganized,but the ones that are really
the most common are the anxiousand avoidant.
Okay, we want to be secure,right, that's what we want.
(03:37):
To be Anxious and avoidant iswhat you'll see in some
relationships and that's whereyou kind of look for the red
flags, and so what it does is itcomes from our childhood, it
comes from really infancy, ourrelationship with our early
caregivers.
There's a lot of research on itwhere they actually videotape,
they record infants with theirmothers and see the impact of
(04:01):
that when the mother leaves theroom, when she comes back, and
how the child is responding tothat.
So that anxious attachmenthappens when the relationship
between the caregiver and thechild is unpredictable.
It's scattered, the parentwasn't there, they were there at
(04:22):
certain times and other timesthey weren't there.
So it's unpredictable, so itleaves the infant feeling
confused.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So is this something that would happen?
God forbid a death of a parent,a divorce of a parent, that
would leave the home, or couldit even be as light as the
mother was a stay-at-home motherand then had to go to work full
time?
Yes and the mother had to leaveor drop the kid in daycare?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yes, absolutely, and that's why there's not always
blame when it comes to how thisattachment style was developed,
because it can be something assimple as that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
The single mother now have to go back to work full
time and the kid goes intodaycare at six, eight months a
year.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yes, and not only that.
It's like the mother leaves theroom, goes to the kitchen to
cook and then the child feelsthat anxiousness right, the
anxiousness comes up in the bodyand the nervous system and
there's this sense of is mycaregiver going to come back?
That's where that insecuritykind of develops.
It's like are they going tocome back or are they going to
(05:28):
leave me?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And we see that in relationships right and that has
, but also does that come with.
You're born with that, so tosay.
So are some children born withmore of a just being?
You know, some people are moreanxious than others.
You know, are some childrenborn where the mother will leave
(05:50):
the room and maybe they're okaywhere the other child is not
okay and panic?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
stricken Right Absolutely, and that's a nature
versus nurture conversation.
Okay, right, I lean moretowards nurture, but there are
dispositions right, like ananxious disposition or a more
like independent disposition.
That's definitely there.
And at the same time there'sthe nurture aspect of what
happened in their relationshipwith their early caregivers, and
(06:18):
so that anxious attachmentcomes about when it's an
uncertainty of is my caregivergoing to come back, are they
going to take care of me, arethey going to love me, and then
that avoidant attachment is.
It happens when there's anuncertainty of whether they
matter to their caregiver, andthat happens a little bit, yes,
(06:39):
in infancy, but in toddlerhooddo I really matter?
Do my needs matter?
Are my needs going to be met bymy parent?
And so they find that, okay, myneeds are not going to be met,
and so I'm just going to yeah.
I'm just going to take care ofmyself and I'm not going to
depend on anyone.
I'm going to avoid people.
And then, as you grow older,it's a lot more of that
(07:02):
independence, but there'sconscious avoidance as well,
because I can't depend on people, I can't rely on people.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Sounds like my ex yeah.
Okay, yes, all of it is comingto light Right Right, which
would make sense because theywere adopted and they had an
alcoholic.
You know family, so what you'resaying I understanding now okay
, yeah, so it makes sense whythe person is like that, right?
so you know, it's funny growingup.
(07:32):
Well, now that I'm older, youalways say you wish you knew
then what you know now.
Right, and I've said this onthe podcast, I never thought it
mattered your family background,and when I say family
background I mean yourupbringing.
For instance, I come from a,you know, russian-italian
(07:52):
household.
Grandparents were there,cousins were there.
Everybody got along, nobody'sdivorced, have all the holidays
we celebrate, the Christian, theJew, every.
You know it was that type ofchildhood and I said, well, what
does it matter if that persondidn't have a childhood like me?
What does it matter if theywere adopted or came from an
(08:15):
alcoholic family?
Or or let's just say, thisisn't my instance, but maybe
we're abused, or but it does,absolutely, but it does.
So I see a lot of women, when welook for our fishbowl questions
, say things like you know, hisparents are divorced and his mom
(08:42):
had a really hard time andthere was a lot of fighting in
the household and a lot oftraumatic stuff.
For this, you know, should thatmatter to me?
Like, yes, it should matter toyou, you know, but a lot of
people don't realize that theywant.
They don't want to judge.
You know there's a lot of thatgoing on, I find today too.
You know, when it comes topicking me, oh well, I don't
(09:02):
want to judge.
He's just getting divorced andhas no money.
How is he taking you out todinner?
You know, I'm just saying, buta lot of people they want to
give grace and giving the gracehurts you and possibly your
children in the long run.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, absolutely, and it's grace is important right in
relationships and thatpreservation of self right,
because you matter too in therelationship.
Right, it's not only the otherperson, and I think what,
sometimes, often, what we do iswe focus so much on that other
person we lose ourselves or tryto fix them.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, are you fixing let's clear this up, ladies and
gents Are you fixing attachmentstyle?
You know what I'm saying.
When you meet, let's say,somebody out there, meets this
avoidant which, to me correct meif I'm wrong those two
attachment styles that you justmentioned seem like they're the
red flag.
It seemed like they're not theeasiest to deal with in the long
(10:00):
run.
Are you changing them?
As the girlfriend I meet you, Isay I watch dating daycare and
this guy has an avoidantattachment style.
He has exactly what youdescribe.
I'll change him, I'll make himfeel secure.
I'll show him that I'll put 10toes down in the sand For him
(10:22):
and he can trust me.
Does that work?
And then I'll ask 10 toes downin the sand for him and he can
trust me, does that work?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
And then I'll ask you what is that inside of you that
you feel you need to be thefixer?
Right See, ladies?
So is there that insecuritythere, is there that anxious
attachment there that you've gotto fix someone, that you've got
to be the fixer.
Why is that need there?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But most likely, you're not fixing an adult.
Without being a therapist orqualified like you are, You're
not changing somebody'sattachment style.
Is it even possible for aregular human like me, who's not
certified in any type of youknow degree, to change that?
Not at all.
It's really about you workingdegree to change that.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Not at all Right.
It's really about you workingon yourself and being that
secure attachment, and then theother person can start to
develop that secure attachmentas well, because then they feel
secure in the relationship withyou.
But that requires you to focuson yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
And it requires if the other person has the
attachment, which one was theone where they're avoidant and
they avoidant attachment.
Yes, Even if you're the mostsecurest person in the world and
show all the right things, youknow, oh, they don't trust you.
They want to look on your phone.
Okay, here look on my phone.
(11:42):
Oh, I don't trust that.
You are where you say you'regoing to be.
You're going out where you'regoing.
Who knows I'm making somethingup and you here track me.
I am where I am.
That still doesn't guaranteethat that avoidant is going to
start to trust you.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Correct.
Yes, absolutely.
It requires that inner work itreally does Sitting with a
professional, with a therapist,to go deep down to really
understand where your attachmentstyle is coming from and then
to heal those childhood wounds.
It's a much deeper processBecause if you're in that
relationship where there's thered flags and now you're trying
(12:17):
to fix the other person andyou're doing all these things,
you're going to be lost in thatcycle and then in that cycle you
lose yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You're going to be lost in that cycle and then in
that cycle you lose yourself100%.
Yes, now what's the other?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
the secure right, the secure is the good attachment,
so to say the good attachmentstyle.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
The healthy, I should say it's healthy, yes, that
secure attachment is healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Where you have a sense of self, like you are your
own autonomous self, you'resecuring yourself and you can be
in that good and positiverelationship.
Right, that healthyrelationship.
It isn't that codependence onthe other person where I need
you to In order for me to feelsafe.
I need you in order for me tofeel worthy.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Accolades.
Oh my God, you're so beautifultoday.
Oh my God, your gray sweatermatches so good with your black.
Oh my God, you're that right.
You just need to get dressedand know.
I love this outfit.
I look great today.
I'm happy walking out of thehouse and we go, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, and we go yes.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And we find that a lot too.
Ladies, when I look on socialmedia and I get once again the
fishbowl questions, I find a lotof that too.
Women, my boyfriend, I gotdressed today I think we just
did a question on this.
I put on a winter sweater itwas a reindeer, you know, one of
(13:41):
those ugly sweaters and I lovedit and he made fun of me all
day and he was like yoursweater's, so ugly.
You're this, you're that sheneeded a secure attachment style
and she needed to turn around.
And I don't care if you thinkit's ugly, I love the sweater,
I'm wearing it and we're doneRight.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
That's the secure part of you right, that you
don't.
Oh, you get your nails done andyou know someone says, oh what?
I don't?
I don't like that, I don't.
You look ridiculous, you would.
I like it, I like you don't.
You're not wearing it, youdon't know.
Am I embarrassing you?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know right, Instead, what oftentimes, if you
have that insecure, right senseof self and you're going to
start to question yourself 100%,You're going to change yourself
100%.
And mold yourself and then justto be agreeable, just to be
likable, right that peoplepleasing.
It's called the fawning traumaresponse Because you've learned
(14:37):
it from an early age that youhave to be agreeable.
You have to people, please inorder for others to accept you,
yes, especially women, yeah.
And then you end up losing yourentire personality and you don't
know who you are anymore,because you've worked so hard to
just be accepted by the otherperson.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Very true, we see that a lot.
I actually it's funny that yousay that, but I went through
like that's hitting home.
That's hitting home for me.
And you know what?
Tell me if I'm right or wrongabout this.
If you're secure and you dateor you're with or you marry
ladies and insecure or avoidant,they change you.
(15:17):
So the secure could through thetrauma responses could, if it's
a ladder and secure is here,you could melt your way down to
that.
But they never melt their wayup.
They stay the same and, likeyou said, like I was always.
Like you're wearing that, yournails look like that, your hair,
and then I'd be.
And then I started questioningmyself like do I really look
(15:39):
like that out and like be?
And then I started questioningmyself like do I really look
like that out?
And put like do other peoplesaying that about me?
Like I don't want other peopleto think that this shirt's too
tight right or my boobs are toobig, like I don't want to come
off like that and then Iquestion it's very slow and then
by the time the person leaves,it took me two years to come
back to the secure person that Iam, when I'm like screw you.
(16:03):
You don't like it, walk theother way.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, good for you, congratulations.
Well, yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
You know, but we started this podcast because we
wanted to help women not get tothat point.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
It's very hard to recognize that you're in a
downfall when you're in it Right, absolutely, and that's why
it's so important to have yourpeople around you.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
If you're in this relationship where you're slowly
losing yourself, you have thosepeople who recognize that and
they start to let you see it,because oftentimes you can't see
it Correct and so people willpoint it to you like hey, you're
acting different, or what'sgoing on?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Or you look fine.
I love your nails.
What's wrong?
People you respect people.
You trust maybe your parents ora cousin or best friend, right,
that you can go to.
And we said this with ourdomestic violence episode.
That was even available.
If the, if people are not sure,if you're not sure, if you're
(17:05):
going crazy or you, this isreally a problem.
You need to ask a family, youknow, do you?
Do you think the shirt's tootight?
Like do I look?
And of course, everybody'sgonna have their own opinions,
but most of the time somebodycould steer you in the right way
.
Like what are you talking?
You've always looked, you'vealways dressed like that.
What's the problem?
And of course, everybody'sgoing to have their own opinions
, but most of the time, somebodycould steer you in the right
way.
Like what are you talking?
You've always looked, you'vealways dressed like that.
What's the problem?
Now You're fine.
(17:26):
It's your style, right?
You want purple hair.
You've always had purple, green, blue hair.
It's not my style.
You'll never see my hair purple, but it doesn't make you bad.
Yeah, exactly, it's your style.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yes, and it's so important to ground yourself in
that and then say that toyourself.
So when you have the peoplearound you who say you're
beautiful, you look amazing,you've got to be able to say
that to yourself, right?
So you look in the mirror andthen you say that, and that's
how you challenge those negativebeliefs and negative thoughts
about yourself.
I do look good, I am proud ofmyself, I do love myself.
(18:02):
And then ask do I really evenbelieve that?
And if I don't believe it, thenI've got to do some work.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I've got to see a therapist.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I've got to work on myself and build myself back up
again.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
And how do we now?
Let's talk about this.
Now we know the attachmentstyles right, Secure, avoidant
and fearful, Anxious, Anxious.
And what was that other onethat you said was rare?
It was disorganized.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
What's that now?
So that's like a mix betweenanxious and avoidant.
It's even worse, ladies.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So I guess we don't want to go down that road.
Let's just stick with theothers.
Right, we don't want to getdown to the bottom of the floor.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
No, not at all Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Now we're out or we're on these dating websites,
we meet a man, we listen, wewrite down, we have our notes,
we know our attachment styles,we know how you describe them,
how the person should be, and wesay, ooh, this person might be
(19:01):
an avoidant.
What should we do?
Or, oh, secure, we know you'refine, this man is fine, he owns
his own business, he's secure inyou know, whatever it is, he's
got a great family background.
Let's just paint a picture.
You know parents together 45years, great, happy talks to his
(19:23):
cousins, his aunts and unclehas nice friends.
You know, seems secure.
All right, that guy's good.
We don't need to worry aboutthat guy.
Right, because you could goalong, you could date the guy,
go out for a drink and see ifyou mesh together.
Right, there's no way he'sgoing to harm you, so to say, as
we're saying.
I mean, he could be a lunatic,but you have to go see.
(19:45):
But now what happens?
If you meet the man that's likehi, I'm divorced twice, I got
two kids.
I was adopted.
My father was an alcoholic.
I haven't talked to my sisterin five years.
I'm just naming differentthings, ladies.
I haven't talked to my sisterin five years.
I'm just naming differentthings, ladies.
I don't talk to my sister orbrother.
I'm not close to my mother.
(20:07):
I love that one.
I run with that Never again.
I never make the same mistaketwice.
You know, when all thesedifferent and I'm sure you see
it in your practice women cometo you with all these red flags,
how do they know they'reactually red flags?
What should we look out for?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And that's the thing, because attachment it comes out
in communication, it comes outwhen there's a conflict.
Okay, explain that further.
Yes, tell us, give us examples.
Yes, you may not know by allthese outward things, right?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
They may hide it.
Yeah, whims, if they don't tellyou about any of that stuff?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, so a person's circumstances, they might have
all of those, but then they'resecurely attached.
Have they done the inner workis what you want to know.
Have they done the inner work?
Have they been in therapy?
Have they worked on themselves?
Have they done thatself-development work where now
they know that they've got towork on their communication?
They have to learn how toexpress their emotions, listen
(21:09):
to emotions, how?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
does that come out?
So how does it come out withthem expressing their emotions
and with a fight, like you said,like?
Can you give us an example ofhow Do they get disrespectful?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
right, is there yelling or throwing things or
just saying I'm not dealing withthis and going into the other
room?
Right, that would be thatavoidance, I'm not dealing with
this, I'm going into the otherroom.
Or insecure would be thingslike okay, I knew you didn't
care about me, I don't matteranyways, you never needed me.
(21:41):
Yes, and so all of these things.
That's where you really knowwhen there's a conflict, when
there's a disagreement, you'llsee these signs and are they
able to come back and thenrepair.
That's the important piece too,because sometimes we say things
right and arguments and thingscome up, but do we come back and
repair and apologize and try tomake that relationship work?
(22:05):
That's the key.
How do they communicate intimes of distress?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay.
So that's the big red flag whenyou're having the fight or you
don't agree on something andseeing how they handle it, are
they calm, cool and collective?
Work it out with you, peace it.
Oh, you want to go here, Idon't want to go there, or you
know, I mean it could be family,right?
When you're dealing within-laws.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right that type of thing, how they react.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yes, and how they treat you in an argument, right,
how are they treating you, howare they speaking to you?
What are they saying to you?
That's what you want to payattention to that you aren't
being emotionally harmed.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Right, and how they speak to you and how they speak
to others is normally howthey'll speak to you.
You know, because I see a lotof women on here too.
Ladies, let's go over this,because this is flashing a light
bulb in my head too.
I see a lot of women on heretoo.
Ladies, let's go over this,because this is flashing a light
bulb in my head too.
I see a lot of comments likethis the woman gets strong
enough to break up, right,because all these things are
(23:09):
going on.
You've lost yourself, he's nottreating you nice, whatever.
And then, whether you'regetting divorced, he cheated or
whatever, and then the women areso scared, which I understand.
I understand this concept.
They say, oh my God, he met anew girl and he never treated me
like that.
(23:29):
Look at how he's treating her,look at how.
You know, is it possible thatit was me and that he treated me
horribly?
But he's going to treat herbetter?
No, it's not possible, andshe's going to tell you why.
But this is a bit, and I get it.
It's hurtful.
Hey, listen, I have to break uptoo.
(23:51):
We're all human and I talkabout it on here all the time,
and you know that in the back ofmy mind I had that thought Is
he going to treat the next?
He treated me badly, but is hegoing to treat her better and
get the better part of him?
Maybe I didn't go this far, buta lot of women will say maybe
if I did change my nails, maybeif I didn't wear the tight shirt
(24:18):
that he didn't like because shedoesn't.
And look, he's treating hernicer and he's taking her out to
dinner or whatever he's doing.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That is portraying being nicer and that's where you
know that the relationship wasnot good for you.
Because you are questioningyourself.
That's when you know it wasn'tgood for you.
Because you're questioningyourself, You're saying I should
have, should have, should have.
Every time you hear the wordshould, you are being harsh on
yourself, You're judgingyourself.
(24:49):
That's self-criticism.
I always tell everybody whenyou hear the word should, change
it to I choose to or I choosenot to.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Right, like don't make the same mistake twice yeah
.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Correct it.
I chose not to Right Change mynail.
It's not for me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, it's not for me .
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, I chose not to do it because it's not for me.
That's okay too, and I think alot of women have a problem
saying that when they come fromthese toxic relationships.
Yes, you know, I like my hairpurple.
You're allowed to say that Ilike my long nails.
Guess what?
I'm allowed to say that If it'snot, if you don't like it, no
(25:25):
one's forcing you to be with me.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, and if a relationship doesn't make room
for you exactly as you are, thenyou ask yourself if that
relationship is really servingyou at all.
Right, it's not healthy.
No, it's got to allow room foryou to be who you are exactly as
you are.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
So what else should women look out for?
Because, also, you do so.
Those are the attachment styles.
That's what we want to look outfor, really important.
Ladies, once again, right, whenyou're in conflict, how they
treat you during an argument,how they treat other people, and
if they've done the inner workand if they've never had therapy
(26:04):
.
What about this question?
He promises he's never going todo it again and that he's going
to change.
Is that even possible?
90% of the time?
What is?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
he doing to make the changes right it?
Speaker 1 (26:18):
himself, like you know, sitting in his bedroom and
reading what he should.
You know that's our.
You know that is a good point Ialways say once you're in your
adulthood, right very hard tochange without constant therapy
yeah, very hard, that's why wehave therapists and that's why
they're experts and a lot ofwomen find themselves on the
(26:39):
Merrick go round of.
He said he's going to change.
I believed him, gave him theopportunity to change.
He didn't change, but he saidhe'll never do it again.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And he said he'll never do it again and he needs
counseling, yeah, and I'd becurious as to what keeps you in
that relationship with a personwho's refusing to change.
What is it inside of you that'skeeping you there?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Right, and that's where the work is Right and a
lot of women say I don't want tostart all over again.
I have young kids and I'm astay-at-home mom and I have no
money and I have nowhere to go.
I read that every day for you,ladies.
I really do.
You know, we could barelyafford what we're affording now.
How am I going?
Yeah, it is.
(27:25):
It's not easy.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
It was very scary.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Very scary.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I've worked with countless women who it's helping
them to leave toxicrelationships, and it's not easy
and those doubts come up, butit's about strengthening your
relationship with yourself sothat you know that you will be
able to handle anything Right.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Right, Especially when you're a mom you have to.
Right.
That makes it even more common.
When you're kind of I alwayssay, if I had no kids I wouldn't
care.
There's some things youwouldn't care it makes it easier
just to leave.
It makes it easier.
I wouldn't care what he says orwhat he does or what the courts
do to me, but when you haveyoung kids and they're going to
(28:18):
be, you know, affected, ithinders, you know, it holds back
a lot of women from doingwhat's the healthy thing is to
do.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Absolutely, and there's so much research on how
good it is for the kids whenthat happens, when they leave
that toxic relationship.
And now they're in maybe twohealthy homes right Right, or
one really healthy home and soit's actually good for the kids
to see that and they learn mymom was strong, she didn't put
(28:49):
up with crap, she had that valuein herself and it teaches them
to have that value in themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Right, because you don't want.
I always say this too you don'twant the children growing up
thinking that's their standardnorm.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, you don't have to say anywhere you feel
uncomfortable.
You don't have to say anywherewhere you're not valued yes, and
it teaches them that message,yep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And then what are some?
I always like when we havepsychologists and therapists and
people in.
I always like to say what isyour opinion on in today's day
and age and dating or marriages?
Well, once you're married,you're already affected, but
what are the red flags?
What are red flags that you seein dating nowadays that you
have these women coming in ormen, for that matter, that now
need are broken or know brokenor have been affected by these
toxic relationships Like?
(29:43):
What advice would you give?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Right and red flags.
We can go on forever, right.
There's so many but it's reallyabout being grounded in yourself
so that you can recognize them.
And again, it's about if theother person is focusing on
themselves most of the timeright, and their own feelings
and what they're going through,and they're not concerned about
you, your feelings, yourthoughts.
(30:07):
That's really what you'relooking for.
Are they able to care for meand hold space for my feelings,
my anger, you know, whateverelse it is that I'm feeling?
Are they able to hold space forthat and make room for it and
honor it?
And if they're focusing on theirown feelings, like you made me
(30:28):
feel this way, or you didn'tlove, you don't love me, you
don't care for me, those kindsof things that comes out that's
where you're, you know it raisesthat red flag you've got to
think about.
Comes out that's where you're,you know it raises that red flag
You've got to think about.
Are they in it for themselvesor do you matter?
(30:48):
You want to find a relationshipin which you are priority and
you matter and they're able tohold space for you and
everything that you're feeling.
And if they're not, then that'ssomething to question.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
And also that I also.
We always talk about the, the5050.
That's a big thing.
Now these men are turningaround and being like well, you
know 5050 this and 5050 that,and I'm not paying for the date
and I'm not.
You know, you're, you have twokids, you need to cook and clean
and work a 50 hour week and dothis and this, that's not what
(31:17):
you're looking for.
Ladies.
A 50 hour week and do this andthis, that's not what you're
looking for.
Ladies, that's not what shejust did.
That's not somebody caringabout your well being.
And you know like, oh my gosh,you know you're working.
You could you have two kids.
Let me help you, let me cleanon Sundays with you.
Let me hire you a cleaning ladyonce.
(31:39):
I don't care what it is, butlet me help you.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, generosity, generosity In love, in care, in
money, you know that's whatyou're really looking for.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Not, it's your job, that's what you're supposed to
do and create a list.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Create a list of what qualities are important to you
and what are non-negotiables,what is something you'll never
agree to.
Create that for yourself andthen put that down, and so that
you know exactly what you'relooking for and what you're not
willing to compromise on.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
And you should.
I always say this ladies, youshould never compromise.
A lot of women compromise.
I see it all day long.
That's another reason why wecame out with this podcast.
That's a big one.
Compromise A lot of people andI've done it myself.
I'm guilty.
I compromised.
I used to have a boundary, whenI was younger, of I would never
(32:27):
date a man who had kids, and Ikept that boundary for so long
until I met my ex and I broke it.
I broke it because I wasgetting older, I was getting
nervous.
Now I was in my upper 30s, youknow they didn't live in the
state they lived, you know, faraway, and I said, well, it's
different because they don'tlive here and you know I'm older
(32:52):
.
Now All the people, all the menI meet, most likely, are going
to have young kids.
Like I let my boundary go andI'm telling you right now I
should have never.
I should have never.
So write those boundaries downand you stick with them.
I always say you have to besecure with being alone.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Isn't that a big one?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm sure you see a lot of women and men that are so
scared to be alone.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes, and that's where the work is right.
Do the work.
What is keeping you from beingafraid?
Right Companionship sex.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I hear it all.
I hear I will die alone with mydog, rather than no, really I
say it, I say to my father allthe time.
I think I might die alonebecause I will never again
compromise my standards andwants and needs.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Just to have a relationship.
Yeah, and there's alone, andthen there's lonely, right, you
can be alone, and then you haveyour dog and you have people who
love you.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I have tons of people and friends.
I'm not lonely.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
They're around you and you have yourself, your
relationship with yourself, themost important relationship, it
is.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Can you be home alone on a Saturday night, read a
book, take a nice bath and watchsomething on Netflix and be
okay?
Yes, or are you sitting there?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
That sounds amazing, anxious right, me too.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Or are you sitting there anxious, like where can I
go?
What can I do?
I'm lonely.
This is horrible.
This is you know.
I see a lot of moms.
Another thing I see ladies.
(34:39):
I see a lot of moms who are inthe process of getting divorced
or never, you know, not married,like I wasn't married, and get
you know a partner's leaving andthey say, oh my God, mom's out
there Every other weekend.
My kids are going to be gone.
I'm beside myself crying, Idon't know what to do.
How do you ladies do this?
Of course I get it.
You're used to having your kidsall the time, unless you took
(35:00):
them to a friend's or agrandparents and it was on your
terms.
I get that.
But I always comment listen,get a little, just a little bit
of therapy, and you know, workjust a little bit.
A little bit, not a lot and workon yourself, because I could
name.
I don't have that, my kidsdon't.
(35:21):
I always have my kids, so I'mon the other side.
Do you know what I would do ona Friday to a Monday without
both of my children?
Right, I mean from fun to notfun, laundry, catch up on movies
I've wanted to watch, maybeeven go to an adult movie at the
(35:41):
movie theater, because I'malways there.
I mean I could name eight,rearrange my.
I mean give my dog a bath, goout with my cousin for a drink
Like I could name eight.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
My weekend would go so fast I wouldn't know what to
do with myself, right, and youmentioned that feeling that
people get sometimes, right,that anxiousness of like I can't
be alone.
And that's why not only therapybut EMDR is really healing,
because we bring down thatanxiousness so you don't have to
(36:16):
feel it anymore.
And so what it does is it goesbeyond just talk therapy, right,
it tackles that limbic systemof the brain where that
anxiousness is coming up.
Right, you're alone on thatSaturday night and the
anxiousness is coming up, yourheart rate is increasing, you're
feeling energy in your chest,you know your palms are sweating
.
All of that yeah, it's panic,it's all of that is your body
(36:39):
reacting to being alone, becauseone time in your past, or many
times, it did not feel safe tobe alone.
And so that's where it comesfrom.
It doesn't come out of nowhereit comes from a previous
experience.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So if you were alone.
There's the childhood thingagain.
Yes, you were two years old,you were adopted.
Yep, you were enforced.
Whatever it might be, youlooked around.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Your parents weren't there, and so that anxiousness
in your body showed up.
And now you're 43, you're aloneon the couch and that same
feeling is coming up,Interesting.
And so what we do in EMDR is wetarget that original memory and
we bring down all of thosesymptoms that the body is
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Now, does EMDR work?
Let's say you have a boyfriendand he is the one that's giving
you anxious feelings.
As long as that boyfriendcontinues to do it, does that
have to be removed for the EMDRto work, or can the EMDR work
alongside what's causing it, soto say it?
Speaker 2 (37:47):
can work alongside.
The trigger is there.
Obviously it makes it moredifficult, but it can, because
it's your body and nervoussystem that we're healing.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
So it will be less triggering.
So you learn how to deal.
Also, god forbid the women thatare like, oh, I'm with the
narcissist and I'm feeling allthese feelings.
Emdr, then, might also be anoption for you.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It's a tool also to deal with the narcissist.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Is that correct?
It's not only a tool, it is ahealing mechanism so that your
body won't respond in the sameway.
It won't have those anxiousfeelings, your nervous system
will be calmer in the person'spresence.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And so you'll be better able to handle.
Right Once you have the EMDRand it heals that in your body,
you're better able to handleconversations, conflict, Whereas
before maybe you did go into apanic, Right Now you're calm,
cool, collected and now you canchoose.
You're basically in yourpersonal power to choose how to
(38:54):
respond.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And how is that?
If you want to say performed,given in a setting, like is it
the same?
I'm sure people that aren'tfamiliar with it are going to
wonder is that you know?
What do you like?
Is it through a client talkingwith you?
Is there a special method?
Is there a machine Like how isit done?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Did you hypnotize them?
You machine, how is it done?
Did you hypnotize?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
them.
How is it done?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Absolutely.
So we use eye movement becauseEMDR stands for eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing.
So we use eye movement.
So it's like rapid eye movement, kind of like while we're
sleeping, right In REM sleep,and it's processing past
memories while we're sleeping.
So we do this in a wake stateand we use eye movement so we
(39:40):
can use a machine, we can useour fingers so that you follow
it along, and so your eyes arerapidly moving from left to
right and it's processingthrough the memory, it's healing
the impact of that memory inyour brain, your body and your
nervous system.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Oh, interesting.
Yes, Okay, because I have heardabout it but I didn't know.
Also, I'm sure many of youdidn't know how it was
administered.
So to say yeah, absolutely Okay, great.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
So you'll see an EMDR trained or EMDR certified
therapist.
I'm EMDR certified and so Ihave the light machine.
It's a machine that you couldjust follow the light back and
forth in my office, evenvirtually.
It works as well and it doesmiraculous things.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Wow, that's great to know and does it also work for
those mothers that want to knowDoes it work all ages?
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Children, teenagers, adults, grandparents, I mean
everybody.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Absolutely everybody.
I work with infants to.
You know the end of thelifespan.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
You know, absolutely anybody.
It can work.
That's good to know, very goodto know.
Yeah, it's research-backed,evidence-based.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
It works.
It's three times faster thanjust talk therapy alone, because
it goes to a part of the brainthat talk therapy doesn't go to.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
It can't hit, yeah, can't hit, yeah absolutely Like
those young type of traumaticevent you know past back Exactly
yeah.
So, ladies, what have welearned today?
We have learned that it allstems from your childhood, and
the person's background reallydoes matter.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It just does when we're talking about
relationships yes, right, yes.
And who you're going to marryand who you're going to live
with and who you're going tohave children with, right.
I always tell my daughter thatand my son that who you marry
and have children with is one ofthe most important decisions of
your life.
So for those youngins that arewatching, it is right, it is one
(41:31):
of the most important.
It could derail your life tothe left and make it miserable,
or it could go to the right andmake it wonderful.
It could be a wonderfulexperience or it could be an
absolute horrific experience.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Right, absolutely.
And it starts with yourrelationship with yourself.
Yep, build that up, strengthenthat up, make sure that you are
secure in in yourself and thenyou'll know, when you're in a
relationship, what's okay andwhat's not okay.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Mm-hmm, yeah, and then when you meet somebody, you
won't have all these questionsand you know what.
Here's the thing too.
Like maybe some people thatneed some therapy and some women
are like, how am I gonna knowwhen I'm there?
Like, how am I gonna?
And I'm telling you, ladies,you're absolutely gonna know
(42:22):
when you're there, becauseyou're just gonna be like, how
am I going to know when I'mthere, like, how am I going to?
And I'm telling you, ladies,you're absolutely going to know
when you're there, becauseyou're just going to be like
yeah, no, and not care.
It's almost like you don't carewhat people think anymore.
You know where before you werelike, oh my God, like I said, is
the shirt too tight or what'syou know?
What's his new wife going tothink of me?
Or what's his mother going tothink of me now?
Or our mutual friends set us up.
What's the mutual friend?
(42:42):
You know you have all these.
What are my kids going to thinkof me?
What?
All these questions?
Right, questioning yourself,what is everybody going to think
of you?
You get to a point where, like,where I am, where you're like,
you know what.
Everybody could go shake it tothe left.
This is you know and you standyour ground and you're not
scared to say you'll tellanybody.
(43:02):
Like I always say to you,ladies, you should all know this
by heart right now, what is mynumber one rule?
And watch me break this rule oneday and, like everybody, be
like I will not date a man withyoung kids, and that is the pot
calling the kettle black.
Oh boy, because I have youngkids, I have a nine and 10 year
old I will not, and I and?
But that's crazy, what do you?
(43:24):
You can't do that.
That's the pot calling thekettle black.
There's a line in the sand,ladies, where I say good, I
don't care, I'll die alone, I'mnot doing it, you know what?
That's my, that's how you know.
You're there right, when youcould take anything and say I'm
not defending it, it is what itthink, what you want.
Yeah, call me what you want.
(43:45):
Crazy, lunatic this.
That.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
It's good for me, yeah.
And what makes you care aboutwhat other people think in the
first place?
It's that insecurity.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
It's questioning yourself because you rely on
external validation rightinstead of the internal inside
of you Right, and that's theplace to do the work.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
And of course nobody wants people to think they're
crazy or mean right.
Most of us want to be viewed asgood, morally, ethically, great
parents, great wife.
We like to be liked Absolutely.
We like to be liked Absolutely.
We like to be liked Absolutely,yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
But it's being able to set those boundaries right
and not back down.
Some people have such a toughtime even setting boundaries
right, even speaking up forthemselves.
Very hard Because of the fearof how the other person will
respond, or they're not going toget anybody.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, what happens if my boundaries are set?
I have friends male friends allthe time that make fun of me
laughing and they go yourboundaries and standards.
You're looking for a unicorn?
And I go.
I may be, you're very right, Iam looking for a unicorn.
But guess what?
That's okay, I'll die alone.
(44:52):
I'll die alone If I don't findthe unicorn.
And it doesn't exist.
They're like, well, you'regoing to get older and then
nobody's going to be interested.
That's okay.
Yeah, why?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
settle.
Why settle with somebody whodoesn't fit you?
Speaker 1 (45:06):
right, that's okay.
Who doesn't treat you right?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's valuing yourself enough to know that you deserve
the best.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
But you really have to work on yourself.
You know you have to work onyourself.
You don't get that way bychance, you know.
And for those you know andhere's another big thing I see a
lot of oh well, my husbanddoesn't believe in therapy, my
wife doesn't believe, you know,I'm sure they don't, they won't.
I'm sure you get clients thatare there alone because the
(45:40):
other one won't join them orwon't be agreeable or won't, or
comes and then fires them andwalks out.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I'm sure you've seen it all, I'm sure this happens
all day long.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You know, therapy is a great thing.
I'm going to advocate for it.
You know if you're open andyou're willing to change and
reboot your computer.
That's how I you know.
You're rebooting your computerto think a different way.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, and I tell everyone if your spouse, your
partner, is not willing to go,then you go, because you will
benefit so much and it actuallyhelps the relationship as well.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
So if that you know, if that's your problem, oh, I
want to go, but he won't go.
You go, you go, you go, andthen maybe, when he sees you go
or she sees you go, they'll go.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, absolutely, and it makes a difference Even when
you change.
Just think of it as like twoparts, right?
When you change one part of it,the other part will slowly
change or mold.
There'll be a difference andyou'll see it.
Yes, great, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Is there anything else we should add about the
attachment styles or anythingthat you think they should know?
I think we covered a lot ofground.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yes, I think we covered a lot of ground.
It's really just knowing whatyour own attachment style is too
, and knowing the steps to getto that secure attachment.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
So everybody wants to be in the secure area?
Yes, absolutely, and anythingbelow that needs work.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Mm-hmm 100%.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Because it will cause issues.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, it'll wreak havoc on your life and your
relationships and you'll reallylose yourself.
So secure attachment is beingfully grounded in yourself,
which is absolutely essential.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
And do you find one last thing Do you find that most
people just through your dailylife as a therapist I'm sure you
can pick things out quickerthan than us then we could see
them or pick things that maybewhen your kids bring home a
friend or you know, I'm justsaying or you meet a meet
somebody out there, school momor whatever it is you're meeting
Do you find most people aresecure or most people are on the
other?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
spectrum.
That's a good question, becauseI was looking into the research
and it was saying the majorityof people are secure, and I was
actually pretty surprised.
Yeah, I'm like, where did thatresearch come from?
Right, because I find that mostpeople are anxious and there's
a lot of people that areavoidant as well, and oftentimes
the anxious and the avoidantwill find themselves in a
(48:04):
relationship.
Oh, what happens with that?
They will get into a whole lotof trouble, right?
I mean, there's a lot ofrelationships like that.
I see a lot of couples, I workwith a lot of couples, and it's
often the case, right, and it'swhat we call the
pursuer-distancer, so one personis pursuing, the other person
is distancing, and so it's thisconstant dance.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
That's where that trauma bond?
Is that where that comes in?
Yes, the trauma bond.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh, that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I got to come back for that, okay, no, definitely
I'd love to have you backbecause we want to hit trauma
bonds, ghosting gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
What is narcissism really?
And survivors of narcissisticabuse.
It's so important to have thatsupport network and talk about
it more so we can recognize it.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yes, that would be wonderful.
We'll definitely have to dothat.
Where we can hit each topic,discuss it, because a lot of
people will say, oh, that word'sused so much.
I'm not a narcissist or youknow.
People are throwing the wordaround all the time and it's a
very big word now.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yes, absolutely, and there's clear signs.
You know, you just really haveto know, to really study it, to
know what is actually narcissism, right, okay?
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yes, but that is so if the avoidant and the anxious
get together that's where yousee the crazy relationships.
Right Then, if you get a secureand an anxious, or a secure and
an avoidant, that's where yousee the.
I would assume I was with anarcissist.
(49:40):
You know what I mean the crazyone side.
You know they need help.
We're all okay over here.
So there's a lot of differentcombos to think about.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Absolutely yeah, okay .
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Well, ladies, that's it for today.
I hope that helped, and we'redefinitely I'm definitely going
to invite you back on and we'regoing to go over gaslighting,
because that is a huge one.
I think that'll be a reallygood follow-up to this.
How do you know you're beinggaslighted?
And we can do trauma bonds?
Yes, absolutely, and we couldgo do ghosting.
(50:14):
Ghosting coming back, ghosting,coming back, ghosting, coming
back.
See that all the time from you,ladies.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, self-abandonment, that's a huge
one, okay, we could put that inwith ghosting.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yeah.
So, ladies, gents, if there'sone of those that you want to
hear about quicker than theother, please do write in
comment on our podcast.
On the bottom, you can email us, or we have a Facebook group,
dating daycare, or Instagram.
Get in touch with us somehowsome way and let us know, and I
(50:47):
hope you enjoyed the episode.
Have a great day and we willsee you next time on dating
daycare.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.