YOU CAN START FRESH! A message for Domestic Violence Survivors - w/ Jennifer Capezza "spotting the signs and offering support in complex relationships"

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This podcast dives deep into the complexities of recognizing disease disguised as love in relationships. Jennifer Capezza from Long Island Against Domestic Violence provides insights into the different forms of abuse and the critical resources available for those in need of support, underscoring the importance of understanding one’s rights and options.

• Introduction of Jennifer Capezza and her organization
• Overview of available resources for domestic violence survivors
• Historical context of domestic violence support on Long Island
• Understanding various forms of abuse beyond physical violence
• The emotional significance of including pets in the support plan
• Discussing recognizing the signs of a healthy vs. an abusive relationship
• Importance of having open dialogues around domestic violence
• Overview of red flags individuals should be aware of
• Importance of seeking help and knowing one’s worth
• Encouragement to reach out, even anonymously, for support

Learn more about Long Island Against Domestic Violence - https://liadv.org/
24 Hour Domestic Violence Hotline
631-666-8833

Join our private Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/771136888074777

Follow Melissa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missjayl/
Follow Melissa on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@healthychef1
Follow Allison on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paperdolllface/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Dating Daycare, where we help you
navigate through the jungle ofjerks Ladies.
I am Melissa and today I havean amazing guest.
I am so excited about thisepisode.
Jennifer Capezza, did Ipronounce that?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
right, you did Good, good, good.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
And she's from Long Island Against Domestic Violence
, just doing a little follow-upvideo.
I thought this is.
I was so excited when youresponded to my email because I
thought it would be so great tohave this on for our guests, so
many of our women and so many ofour fishbowls.
For those of you that watch allthe time women have all these

(00:45):
questions about is he a jerk?
Am I, you know?
Is it abusive?
And then, of course, for allour guests that are watching
that are in abusiverelationships.
Today we are going to talkabout your services.
We're going to talk about theline in the sand between is it
abusive or is he just a jerk.

(01:07):
We're going to give out, youknow, emails and give all
different types of informationfor women out there that need
help.
So I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, I'm super excited.
Thank you so much for having us, you know, represented on the
podcast today, us, you know,represented on the podcast today
.
One of the one of the things Ialways say is that it's it's so
exciting to know how open we canbe about this conversation now,
but it's really just the shy ofour lifetimes that that wasn't
the case.

(01:37):
Right, very true.
So our organization wasactually founded in the late 70s
and at a time when you couldn'thave this conversation publicly
, right?
Um, it was, and some peoplestill don't.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
A lot of it is hidden .
A lot of women are writing onsocial media and we have a
fishbowl and we, uh, takequestions, we fold them up, we
put it and then we read it ohand there are.
There are tons of anonymousquestions we go over, we try to
answer and there is absolutelyviolence and what do you cut?
What is your organizationcovered?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
so we so I always like to talk about, like it's
obvious, what we do, but who weare and how we do it and why we
do it is a little different.
So the um, the women whostarted our organization in the
late 70s, created a program thatwas the first domestic violence
program on Long Island.
We were the first hotline toanswer, serve it to provide

(02:35):
services for survivors ofdomestic violence.
And one of the stories that sheused to tell us is that our
first office was in the basementof Southside Hospital in
Bayshore right.
So today it's called, I don'tknow, north Shore University,
something.
It'll always be Southside to me.
And just to give you sort ofthe context of the frame of the
time she told the story, theyused to smoke at their desks.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
I'm sure they did, if you can imagine right Like on
airplanes, right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
And the hotline was like this you know the little
phone rotary phone.
Exactly so.
Today that hotline answersupwards of over 5000 calls a
year.
We're available 24 hours a day,seven days a week.
We can answer that phone inover 144 languages.
So you know when you go intothe pharmacy and there's that

(03:23):
list of languages and it saysyou know, when you go into the
pharmacy and there's that listof languages and it says you
know, point to the language youneed.
Yes, the National Language LineTranslation Service.
It is an extremely high qualityservice.
So, while we do have Spanishspeaking staff members because
that is the second most common-language other than English
Right we have.
I myself have worked withtranslators to speak to clients

(03:46):
who are from China, who speakChinese primarily, or Haitian
Creole, or programs and services, not necessarily because it's
what we're supposed to do, butbecause it's what's needed.
So back in the day, what wasneeded was resources for

(04:18):
domestic violence survivors.
Now it's evolved to where wemeet the needs of the client,
not necessarily because there'sfunding, but because that's what
the client needs.
So our hotline was the firsthotline on long island for
domestic violence survivors.
Our shelter is the firstshelter here on long island

(04:40):
dedicated to domestic violencesurvivors.
It opened in the early 80s andbefore the building there was a
series of safe homes provided byvolunteers.
So if you can imagine how bravethose individuals were, right
Like to open their homes tostrangers.

(05:01):
Exactly exactly.
And then, when we opened thebuilding in the early 80s, we
were the first buildingdedicated to domestic violence
survivors.
The building houses adults andchildren.
It is also the first domesticviolence shelter on the first
and only on the island, one ofonly two in the tri-state area

(05:22):
to accept the family pet.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Oh, wow, okay, Good to know.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
So our organization was the first on the island to
really look at what is thebarrier Right?

Speaker 1 (05:33):
What?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
are the barriers, and one of the major barriers was
I'm not leaving my pet behind.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I'm not leaving my animal.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
I'm not leaving my pet and you don't necessarily
have to be an animal lover toappreciate that and I'm not
necessarily going to judge you.
I mean I will.
I'm going to judge you.
If you're not an animal lover,let's face it.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
But it's not just a novelty.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's not because you want Fluffy to get her special
treat at 4 o'clock.
It's because the animals arealso a focus of the abuse.
We work closely with lawenforcement to look and inquire
into the, and our advocatesinquire into the health of the
animal and the safety of theanimal, and our organization was
the first to get animals namedon the orders of protection.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
So if any of our listeners are listening children
themselves, their pets they canjust bring everybody with them.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Essentially, yes, exactly, if they need to Exactly
, and we've been doing this for15 years.
It started with creating arelationship with the local
ASPCA, so that 60% of survivorssay they stayed in a violent
situation because they wouldn'tleave their animal behind, which

(06:52):
is unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's a huge barrier.
It's huge, exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
So our advocacy department was the first in the
country to create a formalpartnership with law enforcement
.
So today what that looks likeis we have an advocate in every
precinct in Suffolk County.
We have advocates in the courts.
We work directly with theSuffolk County Police Domestic

(07:16):
Violence Unit because it takes avillage, of course.
So that program creates asafety net, a system-wide safety
net, where we also partner withSuffolk County DA, suffolk
County Probation and the SuffolkCounty Sheriff's Office to
create a system-wide approachthat ensures and that everyone

(07:38):
is focused on the safety of theindividuals in that household.
Shout out to those partnersbecause we really couldn't do
what you do without them andthey are unbelievably dedicated
individuals in the DA's office,suffolk County PD, suffolk
County Sheriff from probation,they are unbelievably

(07:59):
well-trained and dedicatedofficials that only want what's
best for their citizens.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
It's wonderful, for sure.
So everything's kind of covered, correct.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
We offer legal services.
We have a small amount of slotsopen for legal services
throughout the year, whoever wecan't serve from our staff
attorney.
We have a network of attorneysthat work sometimes on a sliding
scale, but more importantlyperhaps more importantly is that
they're trained to understandwhat they're looking at.

(08:30):
They're close partners of oursand they understand what the
clients are dealing with, thedynamics right.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Because I'm sure people come to you with all
different dynamics, right?
Not everybody, for instance, isgetting physically abused, some
are getting mentally, some aresexually, some are.
So everybody's trained to dealwith whatever is in front of
your domestic violence situationis and then you know what it

(08:58):
could be.
You know, I'm sure there's aextreme scale if you want to say
the extreme, meaning the worst,versus.
You know I don't want any ofthe listeners out there that are
living with the narcissist.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
You know who just just because he doesn't hit you
Right Doesn't mean it's notabusive and we're going to get
into that shortly.
Yes, but you know, what wealways say is that if you've met
one survivor of domesticviolence, you've only met one
survivor of domestic violence,and where our staff are highly
trained to talk to every givenindividual and to assess your

(09:35):
situation and to triage and giveyou all of your options.
Our counseling program isadults and children, group and
individual.
Something else that we weredoing sort of ahead of our time
was that we were offeringtelehealth before COVID happened
.
So when the shutdown happened,we had already had a system in

(09:59):
place for telehealth, but themajority of our clients didn't
want telehealth.
They wanted to.
I mean, most of us were like no, I'm not going to do a video
chat, like I, yeah, I want to gosit with you, right, right, so,
but that also created a barrierbecause they might not have had
child care or a car or a carright or they couldn't get away.
So now clients.
You know now that we'reconditioned more for it.

(10:21):
We do have some clients thatstill come to the office and
they're certainly welcome toit's whatever their preferences.
We also do a couple groups inperson, because there's nothing
like sitting around a table andhaving a conversation with folks
.
But a lot of folks now take theoption for virtual services
telehealth and it means thatthey can get access to

(10:41):
clinicians much, much faster.
Yes, we have a vocationalprogram.
We were the first on the islandto do a sort of job readiness,
career search, resume writing,financial literacy program that
is specific to domestic violencesurvivors.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Which is amazing.
So for women that are, let'ssay, stay-at-home moms and they
need to leave with the childrenand they're like how am I going
to get on my feet?
How am I going to find a job?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
yep, that you help them with that also so, and
here's the thing, though it'snot just that sort of picture,
right.
So, like years ago, that waskind of what people imagined
right like you have anindividual who's a stay-at-home
parent and has no access to thefamily finances or whatever.
But what we're actually seeingnowadays is that it's all

(11:31):
different kinds of things.
It could be that the offendingparty goes out and works and
sort of holds the sort of victim, their other partner kind of
hostage.
Or on the flip side, sometimesthe offending party refuses to
work and the victim is forced togo out and work.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Or you know what we saw?
We had a guest on and what wesaw was she went out and worked.
He took her paycheck.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yes, and everything in between.
One of the things that we seesometimes is identity theft,
where the victim goes to sort ofget ready to leave and all of a
sudden he or she discovers thatthere's mountains of debt in
their name and credit cards andtheir credit is ruined.
I mean, try starting over ingeneral in life, or on Long

(12:19):
Island with bad credit, right,you know.
Or on the other side of that,an abuser might say to their
partner, you know, if everythingis in the abuser's name might
say go ahead and leave, I haveeverything and you have nothing.
Right, you know.
And try starting over with nocredit history, yeah, you know.
So that's a challenge too.
And then, finally, oureducation and outreach

(12:42):
department.
I always say I don't care ifit's five minutes or five hours,
I'm happy to show up that it'snot just me, it's we do stuff
like this.
We're happy to come talk toanybody who will listen.
But primarily, our coreeducation and outreach is we do
presentations for healthyrelationships, sort of what I
affectionately call DV 101.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Those red flags we're going to discuss some of those
today.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yes, because I know our viewers are going to be
interested in that, sure, wespeak to a ton of high school
kids, we speak to a ton ofcollege kids.
We also go all the way up wherewe provide formal in-service
training for health careproviders, program staff at
other nonprofits.
We also provide thestate-mandated DV training for
health care providers, programstaff at other nonprofits.
We also provide thestate-mandated DV training for

(13:28):
Suffolk County Police Academyfor every single class.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
So, ladies, you're totally safe and well taken care
of.
If you're calling Long Islandagainst domestic violence, they
have it all covered.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
We say that domestic violence affects every aspect of
a person's life.
So we try to provide servicesthat assist every aspect of a
person's life.
But and before we continue, Ijust want to make a note about
those services.
When you call our hotline, it'snot like you don't have to do
anything.
It's just a phone call, right?

(14:05):
It's just a conversation.
You can remain anonymous andyou can just have a conversation
with our staff.
Um, know your rights, right?
Because even if you have thisconversation and you find out
your rights and you sleep on itfor a day, a week, a month, a
year, 10 years, you are stillbetter off knowing If you're
going to say no to something.

(14:26):
Know what you're saying no toDo you see.
So have a conversation.
Don't stay stuck because youthink you have no rights.
I guarantee you you have rights.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
You have rights.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
And there's options and there's resources out there,
and you're not alone and I wantto make sure they know you
cover domestic violence.
Oh, sexual, yes, so ourorganization, li against
domestic violence, is licensedto assist domestic violence
survivors, uh human traffickingvictims, as well, as we are
licensed um sexual assault rapecrisis center.

(15:01):
Okay, yes, so we have.
Um, all of our staff are highly, highly trained.
And also, you don't have tohave your ducks in a row when
you call us right?

Speaker 1 (15:11):
do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
it's not like, you have to have um a plan a plan
and notes or whatever.
That's what we're there for.
We'll talk you through and it'sfor women and men.
So domestic violence affects,affects.
One in three women haveexperienced some form of
domestic violence in theirlifetime.
One in four women haveexperienced physical abuse in

(15:32):
their lifetime.
The stats for men areapproximately one in seven.
But here's the thing aboutthose stats.
That's what's reported.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Right, so it's much higher.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
We suspect that it is much, much higher, and what we
always say is domestic violenceis like a cancer Right.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
It is an indiscriminate predator, it
doesn't care who you are, howold you are, what your gender is
.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Where you grow up, what your sexual identity is or
gender expression is.
It doesn't care how much is inyour bank account, what car,
what is what?

Speaker 1 (16:05):
car is in your driveway or if you go to church
on sundays, that's right.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
So anybody anybody can be affected by domestic
violence and on the other side,alternatively, anybody can be an
abuser absolutely it doesn'tmatter male, female, white,
black, purple, it does notmatter, right, um?
and when you know these statsand you know the other stats
that we know, you would sort ofbe surprised at who truly, truly

(16:32):
, has experienced domesticviolence in their lifetime.
And when I say domesticviolence, so years ago they used
to say battered women, right, Ihate that phrase.
And the reason we don't usethat phrase anymore, um, is
because, first and foremost,it's not just women, right, it's
men too, it's everyone.
Secondly, it's not justphysical, right, right until

(16:55):
right so there are six differentforms of abuse.
There is the physical, of course, which is what you typically
see on the news and typicallysee as the end result of what
it's escalated to.
Correct.
But the other forms of abuse,now, this is clinical, not
criminal.
So what I'm about to describeis not a legal sort of thing,

(17:17):
right, of course, it's from aclinical, from a behavioral
health standpoint, right.
So now physical, obviously,depending on on right what the
charges are, what the looks likewhatever but from a behavioral
health standpoint, um, there ismental abuse, there's verbal
abuse, uh, mental and uhemotional are sort of tied into

(17:40):
one another.
There's sexual abuse, there'sfinancial abuse and there's
cyber.
So, and all of those things, um, it can be everything it could,
be one it could be acombination, because, if nothing
else, what we always try, whatI always try to say, is so.
For instance, um, um.
I can give you examples all daylong of each different form of

(18:02):
abuse, but you know it you knowit right, so more importantly,
what a big takeaway I explain is.
For example, let's say, um,let's say you and I are in a
relationship and my phone is theonly access I have to my family
, who is thousands of miles away, because you moved this away.

(18:22):
Right?
Maybe this phone is my income.
Maybe I'm an influencer, right?
Maybe I don't know, maybe Idon't know.
I fill out surveys and make acouple bucks for myself, right?
And maybe I don't have accessto our bank accounts, nor our

(18:44):
phone bill, right, and maybeyou're pissed at me.
So you take the phone and youhang it above my head and you
say go ahead and leave, or goahead and do whatever it was you
were threatening to do.
Right, I will break this, Iwill smash this and then you
will have nothing.
So what did I do?

(19:05):
I threatened you physicallybecause I threatened to break
something.
That's very physical, right?
And, by the way, if I'm willingto break your possessions, what
makes you think I'm not willingto break you?

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Right, of course.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
So I have threatened you emotionally, right, because
I've just threatened to takeaway your connection to your
family.
I have threatened youfinancially because this is your
income Right.
And also you don't have accessto the finances, so you can't
Get a new one, right.

(19:41):
So now here's a combination offorms of abuse that is
incredibly threatening,incredibly scary and incredibly
debilitating.
And what did I do?
I did not raise a hand to you,right?
And I did not raise my voice,right.
So one of the big takeawaysthat we like to talk about is
forget everything that you'veseen On TV.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
On TV.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Look, we're from the after school generate right like
the saved by the bell.
Specials was like our I justaged myself.
We're all there can we cut thatout um.
So you know we are but and sothose are very sort of
stereotypical situations right.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
So can you explain to our views, though, what's the
difference?
Give us those red flags for thedifference between a jerk and
an abuser, because a lot ofwomen I feel are out there and
when we go over our anonymousquestions and they'll, they'll
give a scenario and they'll sayam I wrong for feeling
uncomfortable like is it me oris it him?

(20:39):
Or how do you know thedifference between?
I am in an abusive relationshipand you know, of course, we all
know on the extreme level whenyou're in an abusive
relationship.
Right, ladies, I mean for themost part.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
It's obvious.
Physically it's obvious.
It's obvious right.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
But you know what, Even some mental is fairly
obvious.
You know if somebody's turningaround to you and cursing at you
and screaming at you.
Right, let's talk like right atthe beginning.
Let's start at the beginning soour viewers can can determine
in that first year, three months, six months.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Sometimes it's the first five minutes and people
would be surprised.
So here's the thing.
So, from a so, let me also saythat domestic violence,
relationship abuse, teen datingviolence, all the things right.
Intimate partner violence iswhat we refer to it as.
Because you don't have to bemarried, you don't even have to

(21:35):
live together.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
You'd be dating.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
You can just be dating.
We've seen that too.
We see it all the time whereyou could just be dating.
So what is the definition ofabuse right?
What is the difference betweensomebody who is abusive and
somebody who is a jerk face?
Right, clinical term?
Here's the difference.
The definition of domesticviolence, relationship abuse,

(22:00):
intimate partner violence is itis a pattern of coercive
behavior used by one partner togain or maintain power and
control over the other.
So it's coercive.
There's a pattern of behaviorand it's coercive, and its goal

(22:22):
is to gain or maintain power andcontrol.
And here's what I say tooeverybody fights right,
everybody has arguments rightand frankly, ye olde, you know,
come into a middle ground andcompromise.
Listen, the world iscomplicated, right, and if
you've been in a relationshipfor more than five minutes,
sometimes there is no compromise, like you know, and it's not as

(22:42):
simple as you know.
Pineapple on pizza, which, bythe way, yes, the answer is yes,
but, um, it's not as simple aspineapple on pizza, which, by
the way, yes, the answer is yes,but it's not that simple.
But there's work conflict,there's family conflict and all
that kind of stuff, andsometimes there is no compromise
.
That is not abusive.
Is that argument coercive?
Am I coercing you, like theexample I gave you with the
phone?

(23:02):
Am I coercing you to do what Iwant you to do and are there
consequences?
So the power and control is thekey when one partner has power
and control and uses coercivebehavior to gain more or to
maintain that power and controlthe situations which I

(23:24):
experienced in the past of I'mgoing to call it, for lack of
better words, the narcissisticgaslighting.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
So, for instance, I know what pisses you, I know
what, I know I'm going to hitthat button.
Yeah, I know that you'reexhausted.
I could tell, because you'vetold me you're exhausted from
taking care of the two babies athome.
But you know what?
There's something wrong withthe alarm keypad and everybody's
sleeping and I'm just going to,I'm going to say I'm going to

(23:55):
go fix it, but I'm going to setthe alarm off four times tonight
and keep waking the babies up,oh yeah.
So that at six o'clock in themorning, when you have to get up
and start getting ready forpreschool, you've had two hours
sleep and you lose it, and thenI start yelling at you like a

(24:16):
maniac and then you're the.
And then.
And then they turn around andsay, look at you, you're the.
What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (24:25):
All I was doing was trying to fix the alarm system.
What's the matter?

Speaker 1 (24:28):
My ex did this, my ex's scenario for me.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
he did that and I went off and then he's like what
is?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
there is something wrong You're crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, the C word.
We love the C word, yeah.
So let me unpack that.
There's a couple of things totalk about there.
Number one narcissist, becausethat phrase gets thrown around
constantly that and toxic andfrankly, the word toxic it just
doesn't mean anything anymore.
If you are at the end of theday and let me also say this if

(24:58):
you're unhappy in a relationship, it doesn't matter what the
label is.
I agree.
I say this Let me also say yeah,let me also point that out,
Because if you are unhappy every, and this is sometimes what I
say to folks it doesn't have tohave a label it doesn't matter.
It doesn't have to be abusive,absolutely it doesn't have to be
abusive.
Okay, you go, you bounce Right,you don't have to put up, okay.

(25:20):
The other thing is that, like,what gets sort of thrown around
a lot is narcissist,narcissistic abuser, okay.
So the phrase narcissisticabuser is not a thing.
Narcissism is a personality.
It's a type of personality.
Well, hold on, it's a type ofpersonality.
The base of narcissism is atthe base of a ton of different

(25:41):
disorders.
Now, narcissism, let's alsolook at what that means.
It means that I essentiallyfrom a short version, is the
world centers around me, I donothing wrong, I am perfect and
it's all right.
Because when people get intoarguments and even if there is a
trouble compromising, you sayI'm sorry, I didn't mean to do
that, I'm sorry when you saidthis.

(26:04):
It made me feel a certain kindof way and maybe we can work on
that together, right?
A narcissist says I'm sorry,but you.
I'm sorry, but that I'm sorry,but work.
I'm sorry but the kids.
I'm sorry, right so, but that isan extreme example of a
narcissist right.

(26:24):
And it's also at the base ofthings like substance abuse
disorder, because, like, ifyou've ever sort of come in
contact with somebody who's anactive, inactive substance
misuse, you know they haveblames for everything as well.
Right so, because thenarcissism is they have to be
narcissistic or they can't feedtheir habit.
What have you?

(26:45):
Narcissism is they have to benarcissistic or they can't feed
their habit.
What have you?
But narcissism by definition,we all have a little bit in us
because if we didn't, wewouldn't even shower right you
see what I'm saying.
Yes, so, like, narcissism goeson a scale from like zero to a
hundred to a million, right,right.
So where in that is because weall have to be slightly selfish,
or we wouldn't survive, right,right.

(27:06):
We wouldn't have the primalinstincts to take care of
ourselves, to survive, okay, solet's just set that aside for a
moment, right?
So, yes, an abuser isnarcissistic, but not every
narcissist is an abuser.
Okay, and it also depends onwhere the scale is Right is an
abuser?
Okay, and it also depends onwhere the scale is Right.
And narcissism, by definition,from a behavioral health

(27:27):
standpoint, is at the core of aton of disorders.
Okay, so there's that.
Because somebody can beslightly narcissistic, ie
selfish, ie entitled, ie soinfuriating without being
abusive?
Right, is there a pattern ofbehavior?
Okay, is there a pattern ofbehavior?
Okay, is there a pattern ofbehavior?
Is it coercive and what's thegoal?

(27:49):
Right, is there power andcontrol at risk here or at play?
and is there consequences,because if you and I get into an
argument, whether they're we'rein a relationship or friends or
whatever, if we get into anargument, at the end of the day
we're going to move on and we'regoing gonna go about our
business.
And you know, I'm as hey,you're ugly and your mother
dresses you're funny.
All right, we'll get lost, allright.
Right, this doesn't change mylife.

(28:11):
Is there a threat hanging overmy head?
Is there a coercion?

Speaker 1 (28:16):
okay, now gaslighting now with either one, like you
had said, which is extremelyimportant.
Even if there's not a threat,ladies, that doesn't mean you
stay.
That doesn't mean becauseyou're staying with the jerk,
that's cheating on you.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (28:32):
I'm saying Right, exactly Lying to you or doing
whatever that you stay.
Here's the other thing that Isay too, and we have this
conversation a lot with hotlinecallers because, believe it or
not, a lot of our hotline callsare just hey, I just want to
have conversation, or thishappened, I'm not sure what it
is.
And I say this and payattention every human being on

(28:54):
this planet, every living humanbeing on this planet, has a
right to safety, security andlove in their primary romantic
relationship.
Hard, stop, hard, stop, rightthis, this sort of bottom
basement thing.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, right, and we talk about, he or?

Speaker 2 (29:16):
she doesn't hit me or he or she doesn't do drugs, or
he or she's not a homicidalmaniac.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
It could be worse, no , no, I am okay, and this is and
we talk about this boundariesand setting the boundaries to be
higher, and here's a boundary,here's a boundary you can set
your baseline.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Your baseline is if it hurts you, it's not okay,
right?
And by the way, nobody'sperfect.
So if I come to you and I say,hey, melissa, when you did this,
it hurt me, right.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
And then how are you going to react?

Speaker 2 (29:45):
How are you going to react?

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
And from a gaslighting standpoint.
Gaslighting is sort of underthe whole emotional mental thing
because it literally makes youthink you're losing your mind.
It makes you question your gripon reality.
In some situations, or insituations like like you're
describing, it's oh my my god,is it me?

(30:07):
yeah I mean, I guess he was justtrying to.
Maybe he didn't mean it, maybeit was an accident, right, maybe
he didn't mean to do that, butwhy would he do?
No, but yes and it, and all ofa sudden you're in this cycle,
right?
Um, gas lighting is a verycomplicated thing.
It doesn't look like any onething, right, it could be as
simple as well.

(30:29):
What do you mean?
You put?
You didn't put that there.
What do you mean?
You put?
No, it's.
What are you talking about?
You left it over there.
How did they get over there?
What do you mean?
It's over there.
Do you see what I'm saying?
It could be as simple as that.
It can be.
What do you mean?
You said you needed me to pickthe kids up.
I never said that.
I said I had to work.
What's the matter with you?
What kind of mother are youthat you forgot to pick your

(30:49):
kids up?
Do you see what I'm saying?
It's all these things.
It's everything, all the thingsin between, from zero to a
million.
Right, and that definitely goesunder that emotional mental
thing, because you will I meannot that I like to use the C
word but you will think you'recrazy.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Right, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
You will literally begin to question your own
reality, Like if you've heardsomebody say like I cannot
believe my eyes, you literallycannot believe your own eyes,
Right, or your own thoughtswhoever's listening, once they

(31:27):
realize that they may be in adomestic violence situation or
they just want to call and chatand just talk to somebody about
it.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Sure, now let's make clear which I didn't realize.
You do not have to once youcall, there are services that
are provided while you live inyour own apartment or safely in
your home or you can go to theshelter, but once they call,
what is the?

Speaker 2 (31:51):
next step?
Sure, well, the next step isdetermined by that person.
So this is something really,really important.
So when you call our hotline,it does not require an immediate
action, you can just have aconversation.
I say to folks sometimes on thehotline, when they're not sure
what they want to do, I alwayssay hey, listen, you can call us
back tomorrow, you can call usback next week, you can call us

(32:12):
back every day with the samequestion, you can call us back
every day with a differentquestion.
We're here and if you're notcalling, then we're sitting
talking to ourselves and that'sno fun.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
And that's no fun, you know you'll never bother us.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I always say there are no stupid questions, you
will never bother us, but itdoes not, does not require an
immediate action.
You don't have to do anything,just find out your rights, get
the information, have aconversation.
So, however, when people callour hotline, it can go a couple

(32:48):
of different ways.
So we assisted over 6,500people so far this year and
we're not even to the end of theyear yet.
Only a handful of that was inthe shelter.
Our shelter is a very smallfacility.
It's a very small part of whatwe do.
Alternatively, a couplethousand of those clients were
specifically in advocacy.
So if somebody calls ourhotline, the first order of

(33:08):
business is to do sort of animmediate like triage, like kind
of like hey, what's going on,what are you experiencing?
Sometimes I say and when wetrain hotline staff, I train
them to say you know, a lot oftimes the client will say on the
other end of the phone, I don'tknow where to start.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
So I say you have to know where they're coming from,
what kind of abuse and what'sgoing on.
So I always train, I alwaystrain the hotline staff to say
OK, how about you start with?
You can start with the mostrecent, you can start with the
most painful, you can start withwhat stands out most in your

(33:44):
memory.
You can start with where itstarted, and we're trained to
prompt that person to have theconversation and then we will
sort of talk them through wherethey are and then, depending on
that situation, we will see.
This is always.
This is the first order ofbusiness.
We triage, we figure out what'sgoing on and then we give all

(34:06):
of their options related totheir situation right.
So it's always that situation.
First and foremost is safety.
Is we assess the safety?
That's the first conversation.
What is the safety issues, ifany?
And then we might have aconversation with them about
shelter.
Frankly, nine times out of 10,they don't want to take that

(34:26):
option.
Right, and by the way, ifsomebody says, no, I'm not going
into shelter, I want to remainin my home and figure out how to
keep myself safe, that'samazing Because that might be
their first time that, withtheir own sense of agency, they
are sort of reclaiming theirpower.
And as a domestic violenceservice provider, we will do

(34:52):
whatever it is, whateverdecision you want to make based
on that.
If we give you which we won't,because that would be
overwhelming but if we give youfive options and you say I want
to do two and I want to do four,we say great, here's what we're
doing next.
Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Okay, so you lead them.
So, if you don't know where tostart, ladies and gentlemen, all
you need to do is make the call.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
That is our job.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
That is our job, that's their job is to tell you
what the next step is.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
You don't have to know anything.
You can just call up and say hi, I don't know where to start,
right, hi, I don't know what tosay.
We say no problem, right, let'stalk through it.
And we ask a couple ofquestions because we're highly
trained to do that.
So sometimes, clients, if thereisn't an immediate safety issue
.
So if there's an immediatesafety issue, we have
conversations about shelter, wehave conversations about our
advocacy department and ordersof protection.

(35:38):
We safety plan with them.
So that's the first order ofbusiness, right?
If safety is not an issue, orif safety is covered already,
let's say for argument's sake,then we have other conversations
about counseling, ready to, youknow, career search.
All of those otherconversations are do you need a
referral for anything else?

(35:59):
Do you need a food pantry inyour area?
Because we listen for that, ourears are tuned to listen.
So if they mention so, like asas people are talking, because
it goes one of two ways eitherwe have to kind of like um, ask
the questions and read betweenthe lines and pull it out of
them, or they kind ofinformation don't, because
sometimes this could be thefirst time they're saying it out

(36:20):
loud right so, as they'retalking, um, and this is how I
train this, this is how I trainthe staff to do it as they're
talking.
And this is how I train thestaff to do it as they're
talking, you're making notes ofthe information that you need to
give them and, like, if theymention, if you hear them say
something about a foodinsecurity issue, you're going
to make a note on the side thatat some point in this
conversation, once you've dealtwith the safety issues, you're

(36:41):
going to talk to them about foodpantry snap.
Do you know what I'm saying?
So it's not just related to theabuse, it's a ton of things?

Speaker 1 (36:49):
that was my next question because, um, previously
one of we had talked with aguest that we had on and she had
left for a shelter and sheraved that when she got there it
was around christ time and shehad very young children.
So she had her three or fourkids with her.

(37:11):
Diapers were provided, formulawas provided, it was Christmas
time, gifts were provided, theydid arts and crafts.
She said it was absolutelywonderful.
Are those things provided?
Also, if you're staying at home, do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Is that available?
Sure, so, is that a typical?
So the short version is yes andno.
So sometimes we have theresources to help our what's
called non-residential clients.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
So if you're in our residence.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
You're a residential client.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
And that provides all of that right.
If you come with children, theresidence has a bed for
everybody.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Right If you come with children, the residence has
a bed for everybody, and weeven depending on if we have a
donation.
I like to pick out a stuffedanimal and put it on the beds
for them and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Right and transportation to school.
I just want.
So those of you that were, youknow, would have to go to a
shelter type situation schooltransportation, food, all the
things washer and dryer to wash.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
I'm just saying like these formula baby food regular
food homework help?
Yeah, totally.
And for the non-residentialclients that aren't in our
facility, we have a book thisthick of.
We have conversations with them, what do you need?
And sometimes they'll call thehotline and say, hey, I've been
working with you guys for sixmonths, but I have a question

(38:29):
about this other type of program.
Do you have any information?
and we say, sure, we startflipping well, I need help
finding a job, or we have aprogram for that.
But if, if, basically whathappens is our services
specialize in domestic violence.
Right, because it's what we indomestic violence?
right, Because it's what we doDomestic violence, sexual
assault and human trafficking,right, but there's other things

(38:51):
that we don't do and that otherprograms do.
There's a ton of unbelievableagencies here on Long Island
that do either A somethingspecific or like, for example,
if our, so our counselingprogram is short term, it's
considered sort of emergent, solike when you go to the
emergency room, right, emergentcare, they stabilize you, right,

(39:12):
and then either discharge youfor a follow-up with your GP or
a specialist, or you getadmitted to the hospital, right,
but what they do in theemergency room is emergent.
That's kind of our counselingprogram.
It is emergent only, so it'sthree months and it only deals
with the abuse, okay, and thenyou get referred.
So then what happens is there'san assessment done and then, if

(39:34):
you have insurance and if it'ssafe, we'll sort of coach you
through how to you know what toask your insurance company for.
You know, do you want an MSW,do you want a psychologist, a
psychiatrist?
You know what?
Know what I'm saying?
Right, so there's further careafter that correct because we're
short-term care.
So like, say, for example, aclient calls and says look, I
don't, you know, I haveinsurance, I just don't you know

(39:55):
whatever.
So like, maybe they need acounseling program, or um,
there's a couple programs on theisland that specialize in youth
services and you know,specializes in youth counseling,
and if that's what they need,we'll refer them to them, do you
?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
know what I mean.
Yes, so so in those, like theprocess in those three months,
if they did have to come toshelter, you try and set them up
to be self sufficient forsuccess.
I know our other guests said ajob was provided for her.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well, so let's Led to her.
Not provided Led, she went oninterviews she got.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
She didn't have a car at the time but transportation
was helped with.
And then first month's rent.
They helped find an apartment,you know, helped her get on her
feet.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
So the programs that are available, sometimes helped
or get on our feet.
So the programs that areavailable sometimes.
So, what we provide at theShetland, you know, we provide
case management, counseling,advocacy.
We'll help you do your resume,we'll show you how to navigate
Indeed and all that kind ofstuff.
And then, yes, we do haveoptions for transportation where
, if you don't have a car, wecan take you to doctor's offices

(41:02):
, we can take you to interviewsand stuff.
And then and this is where itcomes into like sort of you
never know what your options areuntil you ask, yeah,

(41:27):
periodically, there aresometimes programs where we can
refer.
Then, yeah, we can do that.
It really depends on thesituation and depends on the
client, Because on the flip sideso here's the other thing too.
A lot of times it's just sodifferent.
It's the media paints this likeromanticized picture of, like

(41:49):
you know, people coming to uswith nothing but the shirt on
their backs and yes, it doeshappen.
I'm not going to say it doesn't.
It does happen from time totime, but more often than not
it's people with fullyfunctioning lives, absolutely,
and you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yes, Especially here on Long Island lives Absolutely,
and you know what I mean.
Yeah, and especially here onLong.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Island, we're not talking about.
You know this, you know farmmountain town that there's
nothing around.
It's like your neighbor A lot oftimes right, and a lot of times
clients come to us and they arestill working.
Sometimes, if it's not safe,they have to take a break from
work.
You have rights for that too.
So it's a little known factthat, um, as a domestic, as a

(42:33):
victim of domestic violence, um,it's a protected class.
The way that um, like you,can't be fired because you're in
a wheelchair, it's the samething you can't be fired because
you get sick same thing.
So you know we connect folkswith, like victims, rights,
rights and conversations likethat.
So sometimes they have to takea break from work, that's okay,
um, so sometimes, and especiallyif it's not safe for them or

(42:56):
maybe they have to.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
But you know some folks, like they come into the
shelter, the kids go to school,they go to work and life goes on
and life goes on, and thenother times yeah, just so our
viewers know that you know, oh,like you said, I don't want to
leave because of the dog.
Or oh, how is my child going toget to school?

Speaker 2 (43:13):
or oh, you know we have options for everything, but
that's what I'm trying to sayso, if there's any of you out
there just make that call right,absolutely, absolutely, because
you just, you know, you justnever know, you never know
what's available to you.
And if you're not ready, that'sokay, it's totally okay.

(43:34):
It's, more often than not youmight not be ready.
We've even had folks come intothe shelter, leave after a
couple of days or a couple ofweeks and come back years later.
Right, we had one client.
When they're Right, we had oneclient.
When they're ready.
We had one client who was inthe shelter 20 years apart, oh
wow, literally in the early 90s,and then a couple of years ago.

(43:56):
Okay, and that's what happens.
We've had other clients wherethey come in, they leave, and
then a year later they're back.
And it happens, and it's okaybecause it takes they're.
They come in, they leave, andthen a year later they're back.
Okay, and they, you know ithappens and it's okay because it
takes.
On average.
It takes between seven this isthis is what the stats say it
takes, uh, on average, betweenseven and nine times to leave an

(44:20):
abusive relationship for good.
All right, that's all well andgood.
That might be the actual act ofphysically leaving the house,
right, but here's what I say.
What about the 50 times a day?
You think about it.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Right, of course.
What about the 10 times?
Or the fights, or the fightshow many fights?
Or the threats?

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Or the times that you think it through in your head
and you cycle through and yousay, oh, I can't do this now,
right, and like, okay, well, ifI got a part-time job now and I
saved X amount, like how manytimes?
So really, really, it's likethousands of times.
And the other thing that'sreally important to keep in mind

(45:00):
is when somebody is gettingready to leave an abusive
relationship.
That is an extremely dangeroustime and this is when we're
assessing safety.
This is what we look at,because what happens when you're
ending the relationship?
They get angry.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
They're losing their power and control.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
So if you can't, that's where you see the if I
can't have you, nobody can Right.
That's where you see thoseextreme examples.
And yes, that does happen.
But what I always say is, ifit's not physical yet, if it has
sort of plateaued at thatemotional or whatever, if it's
not physical yet it could verywell get physical.

(45:40):
If it's already physical, it'spossible those physical assaults
are going to be more intense,harder, more dangerous.
And if he or she has alreadythreatened your life and or has
access to a gun or somethinglike that, that person's life is
in danger.
So whenever somebody says likeyou know, folks always, I don't

(46:02):
understand why they don't justleave.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
They don't just leave , right?
Well, it's not so easy.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
It's not so simple.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Right, and that's why we had you on here, because we
know it's not so simple.
We hear it, but, ladies, I alsowant you to know and gents,
that you don't get a medal or amonument for staying.
Do you know what I'm?
Even if, like I said, from zeroto 100, even if you're unhappy
in that relationship and he'scheating on you.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
It doesn't matter why , it doesn't matter why.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
You know, try to leave, try to call, try to get
your.
You know, know your worth.
Know your worth, you don'tdeserve this.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yes, yes, you are worthy of better Mm-hmm.
And here's one of the reasonsand the children will survive.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
We talked about that also earlier.
A lot of women I find are oh mygosh, my kids, their lives are
going to be disrupted Now.
They're not going to have afather in their life or a mother
in their life or this, but youknow what?
Their mental well-being andstability they don't.
They end up needing therapy forstaying.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
It doesn't make them better for staying and a lot of
times folks will say and here's,let me point out a couple
scenarios what if the abusiveparty is only abusive to their
partner and not the children?
Or what if the abusive party isa world-class parent by all
measure, right, and maybe theabuse is hidden?
So here's a couple of things.

(47:26):
Number one you have to put onyour oxygen mask, right?
Okay, you are doing nobody anygood, right?
None, if you are not fullyfunctioning as a parent,
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
That's the first thing.
Secondly, that's if let's justsay, for argument's sake, maybe
the abuse is hidden and the kidsaren't exposed to it.
If the children are exposed toit, if they witness it, if they
hear it, if they see it.

(48:06):
So.
Clinical studies show that justwitnessing abuse, witnessing
domestic violence, thosechildren have the same exact
side effects than if they weredirectly abused.
The other thing is, if they arein fact being directly abused
and you think, oh, it's justwhatever, it's a moment in time
that leads to a lifetime.
A lifetime, a lifetime Ofemotional issues.
Yes, high risk behaviors.
Yes, behaviors self-worth issueswhich can lead to chemical

(48:27):
dependency, failure to throt, amillion different things.
100 literally has rippleeffects.
It does, right.
And then here's and here's oneof the challenges too, is that a
lot of folks don't know.
Well, maybe they don't knowit's abuse because it's not like
he hits me, right, all right,maybe he or she doesn't hit you,

(48:48):
it doesn't matter, right?
Well, that's why we said justcall Even if you're not sure.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
And you want to call the hotline they're also trained
for that If you're like, ohwell, he just could lose.
Abuse is abuse is abuse isabuse.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
If there is power and control, if it is coercive and
if there are consequences if youdo not comply, it is abusive
because in the example I gaveearlier, I never raised my voice
right and I never laid a handon you.
That was incredibly coercive,it was incredibly manipulative
and it is downright abusive and,at the end of the day, you
don't have to live like that,right.

(49:21):
You just don't have to livelike that, right.
You just don't have to livelike that.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
And are there any?
We always talk about red flags.
Sure, so you meet a guy andwhat are those beginning red
flags that you want to look for?
That when you see you shouldjust be like I'm good.
I always say, and you know, Ialways say the way a man treats
his mother is the way he's goingto treat you, and I always kind

(49:46):
of try to give.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
And some women are like or sisters like female
cousins or whatever.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yes, but what are some red flags that you see,
maybe from a lot of DV victimsthat if they would have in the
beginning kind of just noticedit, even though it's a little
hidden or gets played off, thatyou could say you know what?
This isn't good.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
So the short version of that is anything that makes
you feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Honestly, because I feel like a lot of women that
get into these serious DVinstances.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
They always look back and they go.
Oh, I should have known.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
But not only that that they're weak at the time.
They don't have a strongusually uh support, a family
support.
They've either had some um grewup with domestic.
You know what I'm trying to saybecause so love is a learned
behavior.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
So if I grew up with abuse, yes, right, so love.
So what are learned behaviors,right, what are non?
What is instinct?
Right, instinctually, we knowto breathe Instinctually, we
know to drink the bottle.
Right, instinctually, we knowto sleep.
Okay, those are instinctbehaviors.
Love is learned.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
So sometimes what happens is you grow up with it.
You don't know any better.
You think yelling and screamingand hitting is love.
Well, by the way, your kids aregoing to learn that too.
100% Right.
So that's part of it.
And the other thing is it'sactually not a question of
weakness, because, let me tellyou something it takes an

(51:20):
unbelievable amount of strengthto get out of bed every day in
these scenarios 100%.
Right, so, but what's happenedis they've been broken down.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
That's what I mean by weakness.
Of course, now I know what youmeant, you know what I mean, I
did Like broken.
And they're shamed into it.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Like your example, he shamed you into shutting up,
right.
He shamed you because, by thetime he was done with you, you
were questioning yourself as afemale, as a human being, with a
brain right.
Exactly.
Wait, did I even hear the alarm?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Like you know what I mean.
Oh, I heard it.
It woke me up four times, Fourtimes right, and the babies and
the babies right.
But I feel like they prey on,they do.
They prey on, if you want tosay the wrong word, but the weak
, the broken down.
So what happened?
Do you know what I?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
mean it is true.
Here's what I will say to that,though Years ago we did think
that that they have a type, it'sactually not the case, believe
it or not.
Years ago we did think that.
But what the studies have shown, and what behavioral health
science has shown, is that it'snot the individual that is
vulnerable, it's that theseindividuals, these abusive,

(52:24):
abusive parties.
They are world-class scamartists?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
oh, absolutely, they are manipulative.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yes, right, so the love bombing.
So that's the first thing,right um like a red flag the
love.
But oh my god I love you, thebest thing that's ever happened
to me.
Day two you are literally youare literally literally the most
beautiful thing in the worldlike I've never met anyone like
you have high health high, havea healthy and high self-esteem.

(52:54):
Please do, but let's be realright.
You can't love someone in twodays and know somebody and stop
reading those damn trashyromance novels, because that is
not how real life is.
Okay, right, it's just not youcan't know someone in two Right,
right and you know so.
The love bombing is huge, huge,huge red flag.

(53:16):
Especially, you see, like one ofthe things that we talk about a
lot too, is that an abuser haslike sort of that multiple
personality.
They can read people, so, likea.
So here's what.
Remember Bernie Madoff?
Yes, remember that.
Did anybody blame those victims?
Not really.

(53:37):
No, nobody said hey, sallySmith, you're an idiot, right?
Why?
Because everybody knew thatBernie Madoff was a world-class
manipulator.
It is the same thing.
Why?
Because everybody knew thatBernie Madoff was a world class
manipulator.
It is the same thing.
Okay, so it is not your fault,it is not.
You are not deficient by endingup in these situations.
These individuals are worldclass manipulators and they will

(54:01):
love bomb you and they willpick up on your weaknesses and
they will pinpoint yourinsecurities and they will play
into that and they will do allthe things to slowly it's not
all at once and that's thehardest part I remember.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
When I came out of my relationship, it took me at
least two years because I waslike who's gonna want me?
Like who's gonna want me who'sgonna?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
if you think back, what was the first time that
your gut instinct went?
Hmm?

Speaker 1 (54:29):
You know what?
There were a lot of differentinstances that will come to my
mind, Mm-hmm, but at the timethe first one, and I always say
this I wasn't a mother at thetime, right.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Because I had my kids .

Speaker 1 (54:45):
And my ex left a state and his kids and the
ex-wife there and came here andwent back to go see his kids
once a month, you know, whichturns out to be 12 times a year.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
To me that's a red flag.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Now, looking back, that is my first, that's a red
flag.
I would have turned, but I hadno children and I was like, oh
look, how nice he spent.
He's taking off work, leavingThursday.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
But really, when you think about it, you're seeing
your kids once a month becausenow you have a perspective of
having given birth to humans andyou're like you can't imagine
only seeing them once a month.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I mean, how do you even parent correctly, seeing
them once a?
You're not there for therecitals, you're not there when
they're sick, you're not therefor the little things or how to
ride a bike.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
I have a ton of nieces and nephews and I.
I go to the t-ball games andthat's right.
Like I, I joke that it's alltheir fault that I'm stuck here
on long island where it's soexpensive, where I could go
anywhere.
These rotten children that andI won't even leave.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I won't even leave my nieces and now, that was my,
but I didn't see it right.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Of course I didn't see it probably told you all
kinds of stories about how hisex was the nutty one.
Yes, and it was all the ex'sfault, 100%, and he's a victim.
Yes, right, here is somethingelse, ladies, you're smart.
You're smart.
If one plus one doesn't equaltwo, think about it, mm-hmm.
And if it does not connect, ifyou have, if you just that

(56:26):
doesn't make sense, if itdoesn't, or if you're brushing
it aside for one second, youhave to say to yourself that
doesn't track.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
And oh, let me just right, see, and I looked at it
and I'm always like damn itbecause I looked at it.
oh wow, look how nice you'retaking off from your high
corporate job vacation time fromThursday Sunday, paying for a
plane ticket, going and rentinga hotel, because she didn't make
it easy you know what I'msaying, well, right, that's the
story he was telling and I waslike oh, wow, you know, like I

(56:55):
guess, if you're going to moveto get a better job over here
than you had over there, but nowas a parent, I would never.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I'd take the job over there right and never, even if
it was a pay cut or not the besthours go a town or two over
right, but how do you leave?
So that was my how do you leaveyour?
How do you, ultimately, how doyou leave your kids and and only
see them once a month?
Like I can't even imagine thatfor my nieces and nephews.
But at the time it didn't, itdidn't raise a red.

(57:24):
It didn't raise a red flag andthen so some of those red flags
are.
So love, bombing is key, right.
The other thing I will sayagain, going back to um,
anything that makes you goremember that song on the what
was it?

Speaker 1 (57:35):
the 80s right exactly you know.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Or if a friend of yours says, wait what, as you're
telling the story, yes, andthey go wait what, melissa?
Right, wait where?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Huh, that doesn't make sense, that doesn't make
sense.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Don't get defensive.
Right Say wait what doesn'tmake sense.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Right, you know what I'm saying.
Help me out, help me out here.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Give me your point of view.
Happens um.
More often than not is um.
It's like um seeds.
Yes, so they're dropping seeds.
Okay, right, so they're sort oftesting, you like, uh, what
you'll tolerate what you'lltolerate, you'll accept, but yes
, and it starts out so slow andit's um, oh, you know, hey, john
.
Um, I don't think melissa likesme.
I don't think I know you guysare real good friends and you've
hung out for a while, but Idon't.
I don't think, like, what areyou talking about?

(58:27):
Melissa likes you?
Totally no, she gave me a funnylook, she gave me an attitude
All right, well, maybe next timewe go out I won't invite
Melissa.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
That's the first thing that happens and then the
next thing, you know, in sixmonths, right, because it's like
, this is like they try to getyou away from all, so that you
can't bang those ideas or thosescenarios off other people to
tell you he's nutty or she'snutty, that's not normal.
That's not normal.

(58:54):
That's not normal.
If there's no one around you nofamily, no friends, no sister,
no brother, no nothing and youdon't go out into the work world
or you're not banging theseideas or these scenarios off
anybody, then it's all theperson saying look at you, Right
, what's wrong with you?
You're the problem, Correct Notme and that's always like.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
There's a meme that goes around social media.
A lot that says like anarcissist will infuriate you
and then blame you for for yourreaction to their disrespect.
Yes, 100, so like and I alwayssay too it's like you, and a lot
of folks have been using thisuh analogy recently it's the
frog in the boiling water, right?

(59:36):
so if you take a frog and sorry,by the way, animal lovers- yeah
um, but if you take a frog andyou toss him into boiling water,
he's going to hop right out,right, but if you put him in
cold water and you slowly,slowly, slowly, slowly turn up
the heat, yeah.
Eventually, he's cooked beforehe realizes it's too late.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yes, right, and a lot of folks.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I don't understand why they don't just need Okay,
here's what.
So how many folks, how many ofyou have ever stayed in a job
you hated too long, Right, oryou know where?
You were miserable at that job,but you stayed for a million
reasons?
Because, you couldn't findanother job or any reason right?

(01:00:19):
Or a friendship that was justwith somebody who I don't know,
you were friends with your wholewhole life.
So you kind of have to put upwith their whatever or like,
continue to invite crazy auntsally to the holidays, even
though she's annoying and shepinches her cheeks, and she's
always got something to sayabout what you do for a living
and you know whatever, right.
So what happens here is thatit's not.
It's not like you'd swipe right, go for a date at Starbucks and

(01:00:43):
then you can't live withoutthis person Right, exactly, it
happens slow, absolutely there'sa slow build and slowly you're
intertwined.
Because imagine now that insteadof just a job you hate, now
it's a relationship.
And now you've been in arelationship for however long,
and now you I don't know havemoved in together, because

(01:01:03):
narcissists that an abuser willmove fast.
That's another huge red flag.
Is that very, very quickmovement, quick involvement?
Um, and now you live togetherand I don't know your phone
plans are connected and I don'tknow.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Instead, of working full-time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
You're part-time and then now you have, and then cuts
you, you have kids, yeah so nowyour family and friends?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
yeah, kids change everything.
And now you have, and then cutsto you have kids, yeah, so kids
change everything.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Yeah, kids change everything.
And now you have family andfriends that aren't speaking to
you anymore.
And now the next thing you know, your entire life is wrapped up
in this person.
Oh and, by the way, you'restill in love with them, right.
You're still in love with thembecause an abuser is not an
abuser 24 hours a day.
Right, what they do is there'san abusive.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Like a high-low, high-low, high-low.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
And here's the other thing Remember the whole.
I'm sorry, but you yeah.
And like the story that youtold about the.
So what happens is Then youfeel bad.
I'm blaming myself now, yep.
It's all my fault he, you knowwhat he's, you know, oh my god,
he or she's right, because if Ididn't x, y and z, then right if
I didn't scream at five o'clockin the morning and went off.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
I'm a bad mom, a bad partner.
I'm bad that like, yeah, right,because you start to it's like
it's almost like that stockholm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
You literally kind of in some ways get brainwashed.
Yeah, right, absolutely.
And again, though, I will pointout that they love that person
too, right, of course, theystill love that person, right,
because that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
person Wasn't who you expected them to be.
No, you thought they were goingto be A and they turned out to
be Z.
But if they have an ex-wife,you could just call the ex-wife
and she'll tell you who they are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
And trust that story.
And here's the other thing too,because when that abuser is
cycling in and out of their poorbehavior, what happens is the
average person doesn't believethat the monster is the real
person, Partially becausethere's all kinds of excuses and
stories and all the kind ofstuff about why you think
they're going to go, but well,they'll go back to the way he

(01:03:01):
was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
So they think the calm person Right Is the real
person and it's not.
The monster is the real person.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
But that person has you so confused and so wrapped
up and sometimes gaslighting orwhatever.
So I would say any form ofseeds of control.
Yeah, so I would say any formof seeds of control, like if
they're trying to see if theycan get away with controlling
any aspect of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
I'm talking about when you first start dating or
anywhere, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
I don't know, maybe you got I don't know pink polka
dot sneakers that are yourfavorite things and they want to
push you into not wearing themor something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Yes, can be so little , little.
And then if you again, if yousay, tell me what kind of
sneakers I can wear, right, likeyou know, and you take for
granted here's what guys youtake for granted.
Like, yeah, we're from thenortheast, we're new yorkers,
which are we were talking about.
Like this morning you were likechanging your own tire and I'm
like I changed my own tire too,like we're tough girls.
Like this morning you were likechanging your own tire and I'm

(01:04:03):
like I changed my own tire too.
Like we're tough girls.
Like, whatever, do notunderestimate what a romantic
partner can do to you.
Right, because, again, mastermanipulators, bernie Madoff,
dirty John, right, the DirtyJohn series on.
First it was a podcast, then itwas a Netflix thing.
Yeah, that woman was a milliondollar business owner, highly

(01:04:24):
intelligent.
By the way, the podcast isbetter than the netflix side
note thing.
The podcast was better, um,because that it really showed
really what was happening andshe was a million dollar
business owner.
Yeah, and, by the way, right,his story was absurd.
His story was now looking at itnow, when you, when you look
through, when you hear the storyin retrospect, you're like, oh

(01:04:47):
my God, that's absurd.
But in the moment you can seethe grooming process that he has
with her is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Fantastic example of, and it can happen to anyone,
anybody, right.
So how can the viewers get intouch?

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Sure, sure, anybody right.
So who?
So?
How can the viewers get intouch?
Sure, so, um, we are.
So, first of all, if you googleanything related to domestic
violence on long island, we comeright up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Okay, um and um, we are gonna post, you're gonna
post all my stuff.
Yes, we're gonna post the email, handy dandy, the phone number
of how you ladies can get intouch.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
So our hotline is available 24 hours a day, seven
days a week.
Remember that old commercialyou can call us New Year's Eve
at midnight.
Yes, you can literally call usNew Year's Eve at midnight and
we will be there.
631-666-8833 is our 24-hour,seven-day-a-week hotline and, as

(01:05:43):
a reminder, we can utilizetranslation services.
Right Any language Any languageand, as a side note, let me also
put this out there Regardlessof your documentation status,
you have rights as a victim of acrime.
It does not matter.
It does not matter how you camehere, how long you've been here

(01:06:05):
, while you're here.
What your paperwork is, if youhave, doesn't matter.
You have rights, um, and ourwebsite is liadvorg, which just
has you know basic informationabout if you want to kind of
putz around, get to know us alittle bit, right, um, oh, and
you can follow us all acrosssocial media, because our social
media is fun too, becausesometimes we have, like you know
and I myself and my team dothat and we like our social

(01:06:27):
media is we are all acrosssocial media at L-I-A-D-V-O-R-G,
so no dot there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
L-i-a-d-v-o-r-g, we're on Instagram, facebook and
we'll list all of those for ourviewers and then, if you have
any quick questions that youwant to just ask me, I can
always relay it to you 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
You can call me anytime.
Ah see, I got confluence.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
So yeah, so, if you guys, everything will be listed
the phone number, the email, thesocial media.
If you have any quick questions, please feel free to just write
us on the podcast and if youhave any other categories or
whatever that you want us to go,over, or like deep dives, if
you want, or deep dives.

(01:07:13):
Yeah, we can have Jen come backand we can do a deep dive on one
of those questions that youhave.
So please do write us and ask,and thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
We could also do a part.
This was so fun, yes, and I'mso happy that you came on and I
was able to provide thisinformation to our viewers.
Or if you have cousins ormothers or father, aunts and

(01:07:33):
uncles, please direct them tothe podcast and to Long Island
domestic violence.
Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
And watching apparently, yes, yes, we're
going to launch on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
So this is a big week , a big week for us here at
Dating Daycare, but thank you somuch for watching and we will
see you next time.
Bye.