Episode 18: Honoring The Ancestors - Braucherei

Welcome back listeners! In this weeks episode we're kicking off a series all about honoring our ancestors and where we came from. Join us and listen to River yap about the Pennsylvania Dutch practice of Braucherei, folk remedies for man and beast, and their own candid feelings about modern day Christianity in general. As with all folk systems of belief it's important for us all the be respectful to those who practice. Always remember to be curious and be kind. 

*Sources*

https://www.glencairnmuseum.org/newsletter/2017/3/2/powwowing-in-pennsylvania

https://www.jstor.org/stable/533169?seq=45

Hex and Spellwork: Magical Practices of the Pennsylvania Dutch - Karl Herr

Episode Transcript

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (00:19):
Hair is a nightmare.
No matter what length it is,it's a nightmare.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (00:23):
easy to maintain now?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (00:25):
No, because they're in a process
now.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (00:28):
no.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (00:30):
it

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (00:30):
got a wild hair up my ass the other
night as I was falling asleep togrow out my hair again.
So it, it

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (00:37):
Is it because of Michael?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (00:39):
That was part of it, but I also was
like, I just kind of miss, Idon't want like Michael length
hair.
But I do miss it just like beingdown to like my neck

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (00:48):
I think you just came across a
photo, like an old photo ofyourself and, yeah.
That happens to me sometimestoo, where I'm like, Damn, I
look so good with a cunty littlebob and bangs.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (00:58):
and I just miss like shaking my fluffy
little hair around, and I wantto actually like take care of it
this time so it doesn't looklike shit

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05):
When I saw them at work yesterday, it
was like slicked back, and I waslike, okay.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:09):
Ooh.
Is it curly?
I've never seen you with long

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:13):
gets long, it gets curly, but when
it's short, it doesn't have likethe curl pattern.
So, soon you will see, soon youwill all see, in like six months
to a year.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:27):
By the time we get to Anahata's, you'll
have your due.
Or by the time we get toSquonkapalooza,

river_1_01-26-2025_101 (01:34):
palooza,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:36):
Lest we forget about Squonkapalooza.
It's

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:40):
I am perpetually reminded by my own
brain, and I'm like, Oh my god,I'm gonna get squonked this
year.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:47):
We're gonna get squonked hard.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:49):
verbal stim just saying squonk over and
over again.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:58):
How the hell are you guys?
How's it going?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:01):
I'm unwell.
I'm not doing, I'm not doing

river_1_01-26-2025_101 (02:03):
Straight up not having a good time.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:06):
I'm feeling great.
I got a lot of sleep, and I'm onmy second cold brew, and I love
seeing you guys.
I love that we do this podcast.
I'm in a great mood, so, youknow, it balances out.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:18):
I got a chelada, like, specifically
for this episode.
I may or may not have it,depending on how I'm feeling in
a little

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (02:28):
Now what is a chillata?
Is it like a clamato?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:36):
It's like a clamato, but without the
clam juice.
With beer.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (02:42):
The things you

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:43):
It's good.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:44):
like a beer Bloody Mary.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:46):
It feels nourishing.
I know it's not, but it feels,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (02:50):
Marys do feel very medicinal to me.
I do not love them, and I do notusually order them, but like, if
I'm deep in the shits and I need

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (02:59):
When you get a hankering for one they
hit.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:02):
don't think I've ever had a Bloody
Mary in my life.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:05):
You would love it, I feel like, you
know,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:07):
I probably

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:08):
you would love it.
I think they're fine.

poop_1_01-26-2025_10114 (03:10):
chunky?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:11):
not always, but there's ice and
vodka to dilute it, so it's not

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:15):
It's usually not like pulpy, but it
is kind of like drinking like aV8.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:22):
Cause I always imagine.
Like, you know when salsa'sreally finely chopped up?
Um, I imagine that.
Okay.
Okay.
maybe I'll try one next

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:33):
I'll make you a Bloody Mary, because
I have, I think, Is it Zing Zangthat's my favorite?
I don't remember, but there'ssome really good Bloody Mary
mixes out there.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:43):
I'm really sneezy today.
I'm really runny nosed today.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:47):
You're really berry pilled today with
your

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:50):
This is all gonna make for a great,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:52):
yeah,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:53):
great listener

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:54):
doing most of the talking.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (03:56):
Yeah, what are we doing today?
Let's, let's move on.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (03:58):
Yeah, let's get into it.
Let's get into the formalitiesof it all.
Yeah,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (04:06):
a podcast.
We are a death coven and we talkabout lots of different things.
Sometimes they're death related,literal, metaphorical, uh, you
know, spiritual.
Uh, sometimes they're not.
But I guess first and foremost,it is a witchcraft podcast.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (04:27):
Yeah.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (04:28):
And today, we're going to be having
a very special River Sode.
It's River's Ancestor Special.
So, I think, uh, eventually, thethree of us, each of us are
going to do an episode talkingabout, um, Well, I'm not sure

(04:48):
what River's talking about, butlike, the vision is like
folklore, like magic practices.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (04:54):
just ancestral heritage with whatever
those, you know, magicalpractices might have been and
like maybe talking about how itinfluences us.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (05:04):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101 (05:05):
perhaps.
Maybe all those things.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (05:09):
do you want to give like an overview,
like what, like what culture AreYou going to be exploring?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (05:16):
So as my two beautiful friends have
already stated, what's up?
I'm River.
This is my episode today.
Um, we're doing ancestralheritage lineage, etc.
Maybe not deep dives.
We're kind of just, at leastI'm, I only, I only want to

(05:39):
speak for myself on this one.
Because I started getting moreinto ancestral practices and
venerations a little while ago.
I think maybe like a year or twoago, it's hard to tell.
And I, like most white Americansof European lineage, I have a

(06:01):
lot of things in my blood and inmy body and in my ancestral
line, so it's kind of hard toConcretely pinned down.
It's not just a like, oh, itgoes right to the source.
It's kind of all over the place.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (06:15):
You're not a Doberman.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (06:17):
not, I'm not a purebred, hyperbred,
like French Bulldog withbreathing problems, you

poop_1_01-26-2025_10114 (06:26):
You're, you're a mutt.
You're the crusty, the

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (06:29):
I'm the crusty little white dog.
I'm the crusty little white dog.
Yes.
But I got a lot of spirit and Igot I got a funny little

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (06:38):
do.
Mm

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (06:42):
The biggest part from what I have
been told and what I havegleaned from my own family
history is primarily Germanancestry.
Specifically from my mother'sfather.
I believe he is, and I couldvery well be wrong, I don't know
a lot about ancestry or mygenealogy personally.

(07:06):
I believe he's half German.
It could be talking out of myass, but that's what I've been
told, that's what I believe.
And there's other things inthere, there's like French and
Sicilian and Scottish and Irish.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (07:18):
So you're potentially an 8th
German.

river_1_01-26-2025 (07:21):
Potentially.
Couldn't tell ya,

skye_1_01-26-2025_10 (07:24):
Depending, I mean, you might have German
also on your paternal side aswell.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (07:29):
It's very possible.
I don't know jack shit about mypaternal side, pretty much
everything is coming from likemy maternal information.
So, what I was getting into whenI was learning about ancestral
practices and venerations andtrying to figure out my whole
deal and what that means for meand my ancestors, um, not that

(07:51):
there's not a lot, but it isharder for me anyway to like
find like Germanic folkpractices.
They're not as often talkedabout as like Italian folk
practices and like Irish andScottish folk practices.
You gotta dig a little bitdeeper for them.
But I did find one that I thinkis very cool it's like an

(08:12):
American German.
what's the word, notsyncretized, but like it's
evolved from the Germanicdiaspora of people that have
immigrated.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (08:24):
cultures like that kind of Americanize
easily

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (08:29):
When you come over to a new country,
you're still bringing yourhistory with you, but you are
also like adapting to the newenvironment and the new cultures
that you are surrounded by.
So what I'm gonna be talkingabout today is the Pennsylvania
Dutch practice of Brouwerij.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (08:47):
Woo!

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (08:47):
know nothing about it, so I'm
listening

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (08:50):
And that's okay, you're gonna learn
So that, in a nutshell, I don'tknow if any of that made sense.
I was kind of just like speakingfor a while.
So hopefully that is okay.
That's just like today'spreview.
Yeah, so I'm going to be talkingabout Brow Harat today

poop_1_01-26-2025_10 (09:08):
Beautiful.
Alright.
Are we ready for a littlehypothetical game?
So, I was telling River and Skybefore we started recording that
today's hypothetical I choseimmediately before we began this
call.
I didn't spend a ton of time onit, this kind of comes from the

(09:30):
fact that I'm having a lot ofdental pain right now, my mouth
hurts.
really bad and so I can't reallychew.
so, you know the phrase, I couldeat my weight in, blank?
Uh, so what could you actuallyeat your weight in?
And some, some rules, someparameters around this.

(09:51):
Uh, you don't have to eat,obviously, because you would
die.
your weight in one thing, all atone time.
Um, you can kind of spread itout.
Um, but you can't eat anythingelse until you finish whatever
it is you're, you're eating.
and you can't just say like, oh,sandwiches, um, you know, that

(10:15):
stupid cop out, everything's asandwich.
Is a taco a sandwich?
Uh, you would have to bespecific, like, I'm only gonna
eat tuna salad sandwiches.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:23):
Right, like you order one thing, and
it's as is.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:27):
and it's as is, it's that no
modifications.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:29):
not like the pizza, and then you get
the different toppings, and youmake a dessert

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:33):
Yeah, no, no, no.
it's one thing and real worldrepercussions still apply.
You still have to

river_1_01-26-2025_1012 (10:41):
vitamin deficiencies.
No.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:44):
the health implications, yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (10:47):
This is not as easy as I thought it
was gonna be.
My immediate answer was frenchfries, because I love french
fries, and I would eat

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (10:55):
you cannot eat

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (10:56):
for every single meal if I could.
I would want to, I'd be willingto, but the health implications
of it all,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (11:04):
mm hmm.
But potatoes are a staple foodbecause they contain so many

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (11:11):
and, honestly, I can just take
vitamins, like I already do.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (11:16):
True.
Yeah, I'll allow that.
I'll allow the vitamins.
Your supplements.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (11:20):
With, with french fries, what's my
dipping sauce situation?
Am I allowed to pick the sauce,or does the base have to be
consistent each time, or?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (11:34):
I would say, if we were going to
be consistent with the rules, Iwould say you get one sauce that
you have to stick to.
But I'll be nice.
I'll give you, I'll give you two

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (11:42):
two sauces.
wow! Living like a king overhere with my two sauces.
obviously, one would be ketchup.

poop_1_01-26-2025_1 (11:53):
Mayonnaise?
Are you a mayo

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (11:54):
I am, but I'm specifically a spicy
mayo dipper.
I think that's it for me, y'all.
I think I'm eating 150 poundsapproximately of french fries
and ketchup and spicy mayo.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:08):
How many pounds of fri like, a day
do you think you could eat?

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (12:12):
fries?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:13):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (12:14):
Easy, yeah.
Easy, I could eat 5

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:16):
fries?

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (12:16):
fries, yeah.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:19):
I have my answer.
And I've thought it through.
Now, as a hot IBS girlie, thisis not good for me, but I've
tried to make tweaks where Icould to where it's not as bad
as it could be, considering whatI'm about to say.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:39):
Mm hmm.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (12:39):
a fellow hot IBS sufferer,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:41):
Mm

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (12:44):
I understand the lifestyle.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (12:47):
in addition to vitamins as well.
the base, it is a sandwich, butit will remain the exact same
every single time.
I don't need extra condiments oranything like that.
It'll just be as is.
It is a fried green tomato andpimento cheese sandwich with
lettuce and the bread is like awhole grain, whole wheat bread.

(13:15):
So there's a tomato, like it,there's lots of breading, like
the fried green tomato isbreaded and there is bread.
But I'm trying to get somegrains in there to add some
fiber.
And a little bit of lettuce, alittle bit of lettuce for a
vegetable besides the tomato,which is technically a fruit, I
know.
And then pimento cheese justmakes it like, doable.
I love pimento cheese.

(13:36):
What can I say?
It's a real southern, southernmeal that I

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (13:40):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (13:42):
Any fried

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (13:43):
Yeah, and the bread is toasted.

river_1_01-26-2025_1 (13:47):
Naturally, it

poop_1_01-26-2025_10 (13:48):
Naturally.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (13:49):
Yeah, so it's a fried green tomato and
pimento cheese sandwich withlettuce on a whole grain whole
wheat bread.
I could probably do two, well Icould probably do one for
breakfast, two for lunch, twofor dinner, so it's like five a
day.

(14:09):
I don't know how many poundsthat is, it's not very heavy.
Unless it was like a

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:13):
Maybe like

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:13):
know.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (14:15):
You get a thick tomato slice.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:17):
I don't know.
The pimento cheese, if I reallyloaded the pimento cheese, could
add some weight.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (14:22):
But then you'd be so constipated
from all the cheese.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:26):
that's why the whole grain, whole
wheat, I'm relying on that.
And I may also be, be taking,yeah, I may also be taking like
fiber supplements as well inaddition to

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (14:37):
Yeah, you're just drinking smooth move
tea with every single sandwich.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:43):
what about poppy?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (14:45):
My first instinct was Sushi, like
specifically a rainbow roll,which is like, like a California
roll and then topped withsalmon, tuna, whitefish, and
shrimp.
And some of them have eel too,so you kind of get like the, the
spread.
However, I feared that I wouldget mercury poisoning

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:09):
I, seafood all the time is a bold
choice.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:12):
Yeah, especially I think tuna in
particular.
has higher amounts of mercury,but then,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:19):
I also don't know if with shrimp if I
know that you don't have aniodine allergy But I don't know
if excess iodine would have anysort of negative repercussions

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (15:28):
one

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:29):
Yeah

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (15:29):
of

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:29):
I didn't know shrimp has iodine in
it.
Yeah, I mean, doing that mightgive me a shellfish allergy,
just consuming so much.
So I'm not gonna do that, youknow, even though I feel like
the rice would bulk it up andwhatnot.
So I think I'm gonna go basic.
I'm gonna go for a chickennoodle soup that has a lot of

(15:50):
vegetables in it.
Yeah, so like lots of carrots,maybe um, maybe some like
celery, maybe some tomatoes in

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (15:58):
Maybe even like potato that could
weigh it down like if you added

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:01):
yeah, you get the protein, you get the
vegetables, I feel soup is like,soup is pretty heavy without
being filling.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (16:10):
Yeah.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:11):
it has weight Yeah, you could you would
probably finish first If we wereall starting at the same time,
you

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (16:18):
If you are just carrying
constantly, like, a flask ofsoup with you at all times,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:24):
Sippin

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (16:25):
need to drink that much

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:26):
chewin Yeah.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:28):
But there's salt also in chicken
noodle soup, so you would needto

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:32):
That's true.
It would have to be like one ofthose low sodium brands.
Maybe tomato soup.
I might be able to do tomatosoup.

skye_1_01-26-2025_10114 (16:39):
though.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (16:39):
skin turns red from all the tomatoes
in your body.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:45):
I think that River wouldn't be
able to finish with the frenchfries.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:49):
I think you would be so
constipated.

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (16:52):
fries.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:53):
just think health wise, it would be
months that it would take you.
Not

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (16:58):
How fast do you think it would take
you to get, like, sick?
Not, like, physically sick, butjust sick of eating?
Yeah.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:05):
A week.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (17:06):
yeah, I would say like a week, maybe a
week and a half.
But also it might be good for mein the long run, because it
would quell my desire toconstantly be eating french
fries.
It'd be like smoking a wholepack of

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:17):
Yeah.
You

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (17:18):
you know?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:19):
fries for a year after that.
A

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (17:20):
Yeah, and I would, uh, can you imagine
the life I could have if Iwasn't plagued by the desire to
eat french fries all the time?
Alright, you guys are ready tolock in and learn.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:34):
I'm

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:34):
mm hmm,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (17:35):
Class is in session.
Everybody sit your ass down andturn your phones off.
That was aggressive, I'm sorry.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (17:42):
As you said that I got a text message
and I was like, oh no.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (17:46):
You can have it back at the end of
class.
Put it in the box, thank you.
so.
Like I said, minutes ago beforewe started talking about french
fries and sandwiches, uh, we'redoing ancestral, not necessarily
history maybe, but.

(18:08):
Just, you know, where you comefrom.
Cause I feel like you get older.
I'm almost, I'm gonna be 30 thisyear.
And I feel like it's a verynatural state of being when
you're gonna be 30 to be like,What's going on?
Where did I come

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (18:21):
Who am I?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (18:22):
I?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (18:23):
Who am I gonna

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (18:24):
Who am I gonna be?
Where did I come from?
Who, uh, who made me what I amtoday?
Hundreds of years of people.
You know, thousands of years ofpeople having babies and now I'm
here and I'm like, damn, how thehell did that happen?

(18:44):
And also like, I feel like in,again, only speaking as a white
American, that's my, my personalherstory and my experience.
I feel like there, becauseAmerica is such a melting pot of
cultures and ethnicities, it'slike.
Once you reach like a certaingeneration of your family being

(19:04):
here, you're like, I, I don'tknow what the fuck my history
is.
I don't really know what myculture is that

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (19:10):
Cause at that point it's

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (19:11):
Cause it's so much.
Yeah, like I am American firstand

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (19:16):
history.
Mhm.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (19:18):
Yeah.
But America's such a baby of acountry.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (19:21):
Yeah.
Truly.
And that's why I feel like alsothere's not real, like there is
an American culture, but it'snot like established and,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (19:32):
That's why you like french fries so
much.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (19:33):
love french fries.
That's my American culture, Ilove french fries.
So like I said, I'm going to betalking about a folk practice
today of a, of a culture that Ido have ties to, but I do not

(19:56):
practice and I would not callmyself a practitioner.
It's just The closest thing Icould find to an ancestral
practice that maybe my familycould have at some point
practiced,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (20:10):
have direct practitioners within your
family

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (20:13):
As far as I am aware of, no.
As far as I am aware of, I amone of the only people that
practices witchcraft in myfamily.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (20:24):
In this modern day, at least.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (20:26):
In this modern day, at least.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (20:28):
that you haven't gone over it.
yet, but is this sort of aspoken, like, word of mouth,
secret kind of practice to wheremaybe there could have been, but
you wouldn't know?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (20:40):
It's not secret.
It is primarily an oraltradition and oral teaching.
There's not a lot of writtenmaterials about it.
it.
is often passed down infamilies.
As far as, like maybe way backwhen, when my family came over
at whatever point they did,maybe there were like flavors of

(21:03):
that.
Cause there are layers to italso.
In folk practices there are justlike home remedies that you do.
And, you know, littlesuperstitions and things you do
for like bountiful crops andprotections.
And then there are more.
Not extreme or advanced, butlike

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (21:24):
Well

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (21:24):
There are there are varying degrees to
it.
Yeah, like there are people wholike this is Every facet of
their life is this thing and itis

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (21:34):
they might be the medicine person in
the village or something likethat.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (21:37):
Yes, and we're gonna talk about that
You're locked in that juicylittle brain Let's see i'm i'm
going off notes, I don't evenknow where I started in my notes
It's gonna be messy.
I already know today is gonna bemessy and like very stream of
consciousness.
I'm gonna try to

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (21:55):
Hey, history is

river_1_01-26-2025_1012 (21:56):
History is messy and crazy and it's not
ever straightforward becausethere's a million things going
on at all times.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (22:03):
Walk into that intuition, babe.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (22:06):
I I do feel like first I have to, I
have to mention something aboutthe practice.
I, again, I need to start out bysaying I am not an
anthropologist.
I am not an expert.
I am not a linguist.
I am not a historian.
If you want to know more aboutthis stuff, do your own research
and read things and listen tothings from people that are more

(22:30):
educated than I am.
Don't use me as your primarysource for information, please.
But, especially in thePennsylvania Dutch community
where this is practiced, It goesby two names.
What I will be calling it todayis Brauerei, and that is like

(22:51):
the German word for it.
But the Pennsylvania Dutch wordfor it is powwow.
So it, you'll find these namesused interchangeably.
Uh, I don't like calling itpowwow.
It leaves a weird taste in mymouth because the word was
appropriated from the Algonquinlanguages by English

(23:12):
missionaries.
And I just don't like using thatfor reasons I cannot, in this
moment at the very least, like,intellectually articulate.
That's just my deal.

skye_1_01-26-20 (23:25):
Understandable.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (23:26):
I feel like if, yeah, if you get
it, you get it.
I feel like I don't really haveto explain colonialism right
this very second.
I feel like we all know it waspretty bad and fucked up.
So.
You will find them usedinterchangeably, so if you're
going to look this out, just beaware it has two names.
And even though the practicetoday, specifically that I'm

(23:51):
talking about, is focused inPennsylvania, specifically in
the southeast area ofPennsylvania, it is not limited
to the states, it's not evenlimited to North America.
It has, well, I guess this,specifically, and other similar
folk practices, you can findinfluences of them all over the

(24:17):
place, wherever the Germanicdiaspora has spread and, like,
taken root in places.
You can find it in SouthernAppalachia, Appalachia Mention.
You can find it in the Ozarks,the Midwest, the Dakotas,
Ontario, you can even find it inBrazil and Russia.
So it's all over the place, butI'm specifically focusing on the

(24:40):
Pennsylvania Dutch practice ofit.
A lot of folk practices are.
Comparable to each other, likethey sort of have a similar
essence and not always likesimilar systems of workings, but
the end goal is usually thesame, you know, you have it in

(25:06):
Italian American practices, youhave it in root work, you have
it in Santeria, granny doctorsin Southern Appalachia, etc.
It's always about helping thecommunity.
Doing what you can, trying togain that prosperity and that
healing and that protection.
It's sort of like the core of itall.
Breaking hexes, especially, isvery big.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (25:28):
So if breaking hexes is big, are hexes
big?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (25:31):
not in the sense that you are doing
the hexes or that the peoplethat are practicing Brow Harai
are doing the hexes, but Thereis, you know, that light work
versus evil work.
There's that, like, dichotomyof,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (25:46):
a belief that certain things can
hex someone, not that you'reactively performing a hex.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (25:53):
Some people are actively performing
hexes.
I will say that.
Some people are actively doingbad works that need somebody

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (26:02):
I think that, in my mind, I think
that they likely thought.
That even someone just givingyou, like, a jealous look could
be a hex or something like

river_1_01-26-2025_10 (26:12):
certainly could be.
It could also be like, you know,burying a baneful item on
somebody's property.
You know, taking somebody'slike, hair or something that
like, is tying to them.
There were stories about Um,people, like specifically a
woman who was making other womeninfertile because she had lost a

(26:35):
child and like, through hergrief and her like, anger, like,
she didn't want anyone to have ababy.
So it, it can be anything,really, truly.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (26:46):
that's heinous.
I

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (26:47):
It's heinous.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (26:49):
That's horrible.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (26:50):
It's really bad.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (26:52):
Some hexes are truly diabolical.

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (26:54):
Hexes, they can be, it can be like a
little, just a little ick, alittle imp, or it can be like,
yeah, like you stub your toe orsomething goes missing, or like
you're late for work, or like,oh my house burned down, oh

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (27:10):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (27:11):
my leg, oh my cow died,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (27:14):
my crop's burned.

river_1_01-26-2025_10 (27:15):
withered.
So while, how do I say this?
I say this a little bit later inmy notes, but I'll, I'll say it
again now.
Some of the things that you willfind in the practice.
They may seem very antiquated,they may seem very silly,

(27:37):
because it's not something thatyou're familiar with, and some
of this stuff is like hundredsof years old at this point, but
there are real living peoplepracticing this today.
This is a living folk practicethat we should be respectful of,
so don't, you know, just becauseit seems silly, don't make fun
of it.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (27:57):
I allowed to laugh or is that
rude?

river_1_01-26-2025_1 (28:00):
Sometimes, I sometimes we're allowed to
laugh.
I might cut this out, but thereis, um, an old book about this
where a lot of the remediesinvolve making water, which is a
euphemism for pissing, you know?
So there is a lot of urine basedremedies for things.

(28:23):
And I think sometimes it'simportant to laugh.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (28:26):
fine.
I

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (28:27):
I think it's fine, but it's also
like, don't, just don't be ashithead.
And I do, I have some sourcesfrom the Glencairn Museum
because they did an exhibit onthis in 2017.
A little while ago.
And they say, Brauerei cannot beseparated from the communities

(28:50):
that it sustains, and thereforeany efforts to engage or
encounter this tradition as anoutsider should begin by
establishing meaningfulconnections with the community,
which I think is true for allfolk practices.
Even if you come from thatlineage, like I do, like I am
German to some extent, I am not.

(29:11):
In this community, I am notpracticing these things.
I would not just roll intoPennsylvania and be like, What's
up, my people?
I'm just like you, let's do thistogether.
No, because that's crazy.
You gotta, you gotta learn fromthe source and be respectful.
So, what does brow harai looklike in practice?

(29:35):
What are you doing?
What are you getting up tothere?
In Pennsylvania, largely.
And this, I want to make a note,this is not a comprehensive
list, don't come for me.
I am barely scratching thesurface of this practice and
these, these folk charms andprayers and rituals.

(29:56):
If you want to learn more, I'llI'll put more resources in the
description.
like I said, it's composed of alot of rituals, charms, and
prayers for healing, prosperity,and protection.
It is, not even largely, it isspecifically a Christian
practice.
You are pretty much constantlyinvoking God and Jesus and

(30:21):
sometimes various saints to helpwith whatever the predicament is
at hand.
Not all practitioners work withsaints, because not all
Christian sects recognize orwork with saints.
It just kind of depends on theregion and the people that are
practicing.
So even though there is, like,how do I say?

(30:41):
I lost the metaphor

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (30:42):
Well, I think that, uh, like you said
about Catholicism previously,that it's primarily Catholics
who recognize saints.
And Protestants mostly don't,really.
Shoutout

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (30:57):
it really just kind of depends on
the group.
There are certainly somepractitioners who do work
closely with saints.
It really just depends on likeyour family and your teachings
and your, honestly, your ownpersonal feelings about saints.
And like I mentioned before,there is a very old book that
was published in 1820 by Mr.

(31:19):
John George Holman, called TheLong Hidden Friend, that you can
find for free on JSTOR.
org.
I love you, JSTOR.
org.
You are one of my bestresources.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (31:32):
JSTOR.
org.
Not a

river_1_01-26-2025_101 (31:35):
Shoutout JSTOR.
org.
A free academic resource.
I owe you my life.
Um, and it's full of all kindsof remedies for man and beast,
including, but not limited to,verbal charms and prayers to
help break fevers, remedies tohelp a cow that has lost her

(31:55):
milk, rituals and prayers tocurse a thief and make a thief
return stolen goods,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (32:01):
hmm.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (32:02):
and prayers for the protection of
the house.
So really whatever you needed atthe time.
Oh, here's where I mentionedthat.
This is just me again talkingabout, like, practices maybe
seeming antiquated, etc.
etc.
because they were from so longago when people's lives were
different and you had differentproblems you needed to fix.

(32:25):
I'm not I'm, I'm, I knowthievery does still exist, but I
feel like it's not like no one'scoming to my farm in the middle
of the night and stealing mycrops these days, you know?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (32:36):
back then.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (32:37):
No, they didn't have ring doorbells.
So while not all of these thingsare Regularly being practiced,
you can still find a lot ofthings similar to this being
practiced today.
You know, I'm sure when you wereyounger and you got a sunburn,
at least my grandma did, shelike rubbed aloe and honey on my

(33:00):
sunburn to help it feel better.
There's people chewing cloves ofgarlic to help reduce fevers and
fight infections.
You can even use it to clear upa little sty you get on your eye
because it's, uh, antibacterial.
You can deter cockroaches fromyour home by sprinkling little
tobacco bits in the kitchen

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (33:21):
Oh,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (33:22):
Oh, yeah.
You gotta keep that, thosestores safe.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (33:28):
those pests away.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (33:31):
And I feel like it's less, I see less
of it now, but I know it isstill like a big thing of like
applying poultices and salves tolike bruises, strains, muscle
injuries, etc.
So there are still these thingsin practice.
It's not completely gone out offavor and it's not all, you

(33:51):
know, making water to make athief return stolen items.
Oh, there's also a whole thingin Brow Harai that I didn't
really feel well educated enoughor I feel like I didn't have
enough time to get into aboutworking with the moon phases and
its force of influence when itcomes to magical workings but
that is a big part of itespecially for planting crops.

(34:15):
So I at least wanted to bringthat up because it is very cool
and it's like opposite of whatyou would typically find in
information for like the phasesof the moon where like

poop_1_01-26-2025_1011 (34:29):
Growing.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (34:30):
I feel like in most magical
circles like the waxing moon islike you're building something
and you're like You're trying tolike draw something to its
fullness and like manifestsomething because It's the
moon's going to be full soon,but the waxing in Brow Harai is
to like disperse somethingbecause the moon is like taking

(34:51):
on whatever it is.
So like you're dispersing anillness to the moon.
there's a lot of stuff for likethe removal of warts or like the
wart is being taken on by themoon.
So it's pulling it away fromyou,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:04):
So were you reaping during the new
moon?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (35:06):
the waxing, not the waxing, the
waning is where like things arebeing sent to you because the
moon is like releasing them andlike pushing things back down

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:16):
So you're receiving the moon as
it's sort of fading away.
That makes sense.
Well, they had like the farmer'salmanac and stuff.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (35:23):
Yeah, the farmer's almanac is like
huge, especially because it issuch like an agriculture based,
not society.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:32):
saw the 2025 Farmers Almanac in a
gas station yesterday.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (35:37):
I want to get a Farmer's Almanac
so bad.
I just can't, yeah.
I just have a hard timeunderstanding them because I
have a hard time with likecharts and numbers and like
longitude and latitude so I'mlike, I don't know what this
means but thank you for the

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:52):
Well, you're not a

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (35:52):
I don't know what to

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:53):
It

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (35:55):
and I never will

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (35:56):
I feel like the website's pretty good.
'cause there is a, like farmersalmanac.com.
And it's accessible for us nonfarmin folk.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (36:08):
Let's see.
Oh, here's an important notethat I feel like no matter how
many times I say it, I'm nevergonna stop saying it.
Uh, these were the best medicinepeople had at the time.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (36:22):
Mm

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (36:22):
So, you know, back before modern
advancements in medicines, thiswas all you had.
Especially if you're living on afarm in the middle of nowhere.
You got no neighbors.
The closest town is eight milesaway.
You're on foot.
You don't have a car.
So you, for sure, like, you canstill use them today, but they
should always be used as acomplementary tool and not in

(36:46):
place of you know, propermedical treatments.
I will never not say that.
So.
You, let's say, let's play a funlittle game.
Let's say, I guess this is lessof a game and more of a segue
into what I want to talk aboutnext.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (37:05):
Oh, okay, okay, okay.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (37:06):
let's let's say you have, uh, maybe a
spiritual or physical malady.
Maybe you're getting a lot oftummy aches, maybe you're
getting a lot of eye pain, maybeyou've got a toothache.
Maybe you've got a persistenttoothache.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (37:24):
My brain went to rash immediately
for some

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (37:27):
Maybe you've got a rash, who knows?
Uh, who, who are you gonna go toin your town?
Not even historically, likethese, these exist today.
is the person, perhaps, theperson you want to go to,
especially like, if it's a bigproblem and you feel it's out of

(37:50):
your hands.
Sometimes, Sometimes, you know,personal power is very important
and sometimes you can solve yourown problems in a folk practice.
Sometimes you need to outsourceyour help.
And you're gonna want to go to aHexenmeister if it's a big
problem.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (38:06):
Love that.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (38:07):
gonna want to see your local
Hexenmeister.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (38:11):
Master of hexes.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (38:16):
or a Spellmaster.
And a Hexenmeister is a trainedand skilled practitioner in Brow
Harai, often being called on bythe people in their area when
they're afflicted with spiritualor material woes.
And it can really be anything.
It can be like financialtroubles, it can be like period

(38:38):
cramps, whatever you got goingon.
And they are also generallypreferred by old order Amish and
Mennonite communities because aHexenmeister will never require
you to disrobe and in many casesthey don't even need to
physically touch you when theytry for an illness.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (38:55):
Question for you.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (38:57):
Yes.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (38:58):
Related, were these people also Do they
also sort of stand in doulas?
Were they assisting in childlabor as well?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (39:08):
I genuinely don't know.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (39:10):
Child labor.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (39:13):
Well, sometimes children were giving
birth, but

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (39:16):
Yeah, sometimes 12 year olds were
giving birth.
Um, I would say not out of therealm of possibility.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (39:25):
Just because they're in that health,
they're the go to health person.
Maybe they help you to getpregnant, they help you with
pregnancy symptoms.
I just think that it would makesense that they would also be
there, perhaps, during thebirth.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (39:39):
I would not say no.
But I would also not sayexclusively that is one of their
roles, because they are more

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (39:50):
you know, women in general, yeah,
women in general were probablyjust having kids all the time.
Your sister, your mother areprobably there because they've
had children, et cetera, etcetera.
Probably a lot of women werejust experienced in knowing what
to do when there's a birth.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (40:05):
So I guess that's a question, too.
Did you say, is this?
Is this typically, like, awoman, or a man, or

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (40:13):
can be, it's, it's pretty evenly
dispersed throughout the sexes.
A lot of teachers, at least inthe past, historically, it
switches.
So a woman will always teach aman, a man will always teach a
woman.
It's not, it's not that strictthese days.

(40:35):
There are teachers that willtake on somebody of the same
sex.
But it's pretty, like, you canhave a Hexenmeister of whatever
sex, whatever gender.
You know?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (40:46):
Yeah, I only brought up women because
I know the birthing process wastypically

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (40:49):
Yeah.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (40:50):
only sort of

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (40:51):
Yeah.
And there is, there is notnecessarily like, um, a
tradition, but because so manyAmish and Mennonite people do go
to Hex and Meisters, if a Hexand Meister is male, he will
teach his daughter specifically,like quote unquote woman
complaints so that they're morecomfortable and like, you know,

(41:14):
a man is not helping you withyour period cramps, you know?
So it's, it's a very likesensitive and considerate of
like people's comfort levels,which is very important.
And we got another banger quotefrom glencairnmuseum.
org on their exhibit.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (41:32):
Give it to me.
Hit me.

river_1_01-26-2025_1012 (41:34):
Despite obvious contrast with modern
biomedical healthcare, thesetraditional healing systems are
used in the present day asalternative and complementary
medical practices that areblended with conventional care
for the benefit of those whowish to engage a healing system
that is sympathetic to religiousand cultural values.

(41:54):
Finger snaps.
Finger snaps for sympathy.
We love to see it.
So what is trying for anillness?
Any thoughts?
Yeah, what is trying for anillness?
A Hexenmeister will only try foran illness.
So what is, what the heck istrying for an illness?

(42:14):
Well, that's exactly how itsounds.
Uh, Hexenmeisters and peoplethat practice Brow Harai believe
only God can heal and they willnever promise a cure or an
improvement for a ailment.
A Hexenmeister is just thepassive instrument of God's
will.
So they, they're never out hereselling snake oil, they're never

(42:34):
out here promising nothing toyou, just that they're gonna
try.

skye_1_01-26-2025_10114 (42:38):
They're like the

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (42:39):
gonna do their best.
Yeah?
Very much so.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (42:44):
Do you pay them?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (42:45):
n

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (42:46):
paid service, or they're just kind of
like

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (42:48):
not, it kind of depends.
There are things that I'll talkabout later that Hex and
Meisters will accept paymentfor, but largely, especially in
trying for an illness, a hex andmeister will never accept money.
You can't, there are like littledonation boxes sometimes where
if you feel so inclined and youhave the means like you can

(43:09):
donate for their service.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (43:11):
Mm hmm.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (43:11):
a Patreon, you know?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (43:13):
sure people are bringing them eggs
and

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (43:15):
Very much so.
Yeah.
It's more, it's, it's moretrade.
It's more barter based.
You know, you give what you can.
The Hexenmeister will do whatthey can, but it's never, uh,
alright, I'm going to try foryour illness.
Give me 15, please.
And maybe nothing will happen,but give me your 15.

(43:36):
So it's a very community healingbased.
do it for the love of the sport,you know?
yeah, piggybacking off of what Isaid about, payment and such.
Some, there's not like a goldenrule of brow hurry and being a
Hexenmeister.

(43:56):
There's not just one way ofperforming.
It depends on who taught you andthe region you're in.
There are some, you know, quoteunquote Hexenmeisters who are
not doing it for the bestintentions and they are taking
money from people and promisingthem things and maybe they're
not delivering

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (44:15):
gonna be people wherever you go.
I

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (44:17):
People are gonna be people.
People love power and money, buta real, honest, true
Hexenmeister is not going to tryto get anything out of you.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (44:30):
The way God intended.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (44:31):
it because they like to.
The way God intended, and thatis a very big part.
They're trying to live theirlife in a way that pleases and
serves God, and sometimes peopleforget that, and they get
corrupted.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (44:46):
So there's, I feel like there's
less of a, at leasthistorically, they're less
likely to be tried forwitchcraft or something because
they are enacting the will of

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (44:57):
I was gonna say I feel like some
people could view it as, maybenot blasphemy, but like, as if
they're trying to utilize thepower of God and say that
they're claiming the power ofGod.
And I feel like people outsideof that culture, I could see
putting really harsh judgment onthat

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (45:14):
Yeah.
There There are definitely,like, more magical aspects to
being a Hexenmeister, where,like, you are doing spells, and
you are, like Like on paper, youwould think no one would have an
issue with it because it's like,oh, they are like praying and
asking God for help.
And they are, like, doing whatthey can to, like, support

(45:35):
people in their community, andthey are, like, being good
people generally.
But again, with, like, theinfighting of Christianity,
like, someone will always find aproblem with it, because it's
not their version ofChristianity, it's not what they
are practicing, so it is wrong,you know?

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (45:53):
People love a witch hunt.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (45:54):
love a witch hunt.
Truly, truly.
So, to get into some of the moremagical aspects of Brow Harai,
and what things that aHexenmeister might charge for,
because these are a little bitmore time consuming, and these
are a little bit more, notintentional, but they have a

(46:17):
more, how do you say,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (46:20):
effort put in.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (46:21):
more effort, definitely more effort
for both of these.
So I'm going to be telling youguys about himmelbriefs and hex
signs.
And we actually, I'll get intothis more when I start talking
about hex signs, but we saw acouple hex signs when we were
going to Anahata's last

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (46:40):
We did

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (46:41):
did, because we were in Pennsylvania,
baby.
Mm hmm, mm hmm.
I'll start with himmelbriefsbecause it's shorter.
you certainly can find a lotmore than what I'm going to tell
you.
There is like a long historythat I, I just truly did not
have the time to get into forhymnal briefs, but they are a

(47:02):
very long practice.
So a hymnal brief is a heavenlyletter it can be written to a
spirit of someone departed or toGod to gain assistance in many
matters.
A lot of the times they werecarried by soldiers to protect
from injury and death.
A lot of people, they swore byit being the only reason they

(47:26):
came back.
They were like, I carry this onme every day.
Did not get shot one time.
Came back just fine.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (47:32):
it's like a written prayer?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (47:34):
Yeah, it is literally Like a physical
piece of paper.
It's like a prayer in the formof a letter.
So you are like writing to God,but it is at its core a prayer
for assistance and intercession.
It's really, it's a petition.
Really, truly, if I'm beinghonest.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (47:51):
It's like your lucky penny.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (47:53):
Yeah, my lucky penny that I keep
forgetting about and finding inmy pocket.
Yeah, I love that guy.
Um, a lot of old Himmelbriefsare passed down through
generations and families andthey are considered very lucky
and powerful talismans.
Very cool.
You can also find more genericprinted copies in a lot of

(48:17):
tourist and curio shops in thePennsylvania Dutch area.
You know, you go to, like, anold Amish, what, I've never been
to one, but, like, you go to alittle Amish town and you go to
the gift shop and you can buy,like, a stool, a handmade stool
or something.
And there's also, like, littlexeroxed copies of, like, little

(48:37):
Himmel briefs you can carry forgood luck and such.
I would say they're not aspowerful because they're not,
like, being intentionallywritten for one person and,
like, one

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (48:47):
hmm.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (48:48):
but

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (48:48):
Yeah, if you had a handwritten one
from like your grandfather fromfive generations ago that he
went to war

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (48:54):
it would blow my tits clean off,
dude

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (48:56):
And it's been seasoned like through
the

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (48:59):
Yeah

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (49:00):
are so, like, you have to be really
careful opening it because it'sbeen opened and closed a million

river_1_01-26-202 (49:04):
disintegrate.
Yeah,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (49:07):
iron pan.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (49:08):
yeah.
Seasoned.
I will say, I'm sure the, the,not mass circulated, I guess is
the wrong word for it, but likethe generic printed ones, I
think they can still bepowerful, because I think the
belief you put in things give itpower.
I think it just depends on the

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (49:27):
I think you could make the
argument that because it is socool.
Widely used and known, that addssort of a power to it that so
many people have

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (49:36):
I think it does.
It's, yeah, it definitely, like,the history of usage of things
give it, like, a cumulativecommunal power to it.
it's all very vibes based, in myopinion.
Most of witchcraft is vibesbased, in my opinion, So, like I
said, you can carry it on yourperson, you can have it in your

(49:58):
breast pocket at all times toprotect you.
You can also dissolve the inkfrom the paper in a glass of
water and drink the water toimbue yourself with the spell.
Or, if you don't want to dothat, cause that, because it may
be it tastes yucky, you can alsodissolve it in a bath and then
bathe in it if you don't want todrink the ink.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (50:20):
I would probably do that rather
than drink the

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (50:22):
you can, you can adjust and you can
adapt it to whatever suit yourneeds and you don't, you can
even think of a fun fourth wayto utilize a

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (50:30):
Burn it.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (50:31):
It's really up to you.
Maybe burn it.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (50:34):
Although I feel like the fire element in
Christianity is too negative.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (50:41):
I think if you're trying to like
just put something out there orlike manifest something I don't
think it's bad But if you werelike specifically asking like
for your person in your home tobe protected I would say like
keep it intact keep it nearby.
It just depends on like whatit's for So now we're gonna talk
about hex signs and again Thisis barely scratching the

(51:05):
surface.
There is a deep rich history ofhex signs.
Please look into it yourself ifyou want further information on
it.
I already mentioned anahatas,hex sign spottings.
I wish I could remember whatthey looked like.
I wish I had taken a picture ofthem, but we were also like
going so fast.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (51:23):
looking, right?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (51:25):
Yes.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (51:26):
They look like quilts to me.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (51:27):
look like quilts.
They can take on different

skye_1_01-26-2025_10114 (51:31):
They're kind of like X's with triangles.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (51:34):
Not always.
It depends on what The purposesand what like the symbolism is
very important to the intentionSo sometimes it is like a 6, 8,
or 12 pointed star Sometimes itis birds and hearts and tulips,
but they are always very like ageometrically balanced

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (51:55):
It's like a mosaic.

river_1_01-26-2025 (51:57):
beautifully.
Yeah

poop_1_01-26-2025_10114 (51:59):
There's one right down the road for me.
I'm going to try to get apicture of it and I'll send it
to you.
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (52:04):
it.
Please, please, please, I wouldlove to see

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (52:07):
ones?
Like, ones that are standardlyused?
Or are they all

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (52:10):
Um,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (52:11):
to families or

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (52:12):
mean, there are common shapes.
There, you'll see a lot of,like, twelve pointed stars or
eight pointed stars or, like,the four pointed wheel of the
sun.
But, for the most part, they areall very individualized to,
like, what the spell itself is.

skye_1_01-26-2025_10114 (52:32):
there's different colors and stuff that
I assume have different meaningsand whatnot.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (52:36):
Yes, yes there are.
So if you haven't figured itout, a hex sign is literally
just a painted spell.
That's what I was, I wascircling around.
I was dancing around the bigreveal that is a painted spell.
They're very beautiful.
Um, a lot of the imagery comesfrom, I think it's called

(52:57):
Fracture, I might be wrong,which is elaborate illuminated
Pennsylvania Dutch folk art.
So you'll see like a fractorpiece online and a lot of the
symbolism is used in current dayhex signs.
But it's very beautiful.
It has a very deep, rich historythat you can and should look

(53:19):
into, because it's gorgeous andstunning, and I feel like if you
don't, even if you don't knowwhat it is, you know it when you
see it, you know?
You can recognize it when yousee it.

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (53:30):
emotion.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (53:32):
Yeah, even just like the shapes and
the colors and the symbolsyou're like, oh that looks like
I feel like a lot of the timesyou think it's like, oh old
Amish and old MennonitePaintings because that is the
area where you find them, butit's like, oh, that's
Pennsylvania Dutch specificallynot just like Amish

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (53:50):
It looks very German too, I will
say.
Like it looks like Germanillustration.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (53:56):
much so

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (53:57):
Yeah, they feel very intuitive.
Like, I feel like you can see itand you're like, I don't 100
percent know, but

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (54:03):
even if you've never knowingly seen a
hex sign as you're listening tothis right now, if you google
image search it right now,you'll be like, oh, that's what
it is.
I have seen that before.
Oh yeah, like what Skye wassaying earlier just moments ago,
the color associations are veryimportant and symbolic in hex
sign paintings.

(54:24):
From what I can tell, it reallyis like a one to one comparison
to other magical interpretationsof like the color theory of it
all, you know?

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (54:34):
Like, blue is calming,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (54:36):
Blue is calming, and it's, it's for
emotions.
Brown represents the home andthe earth and animals.
Yellow represents health andjoy.
Violet and purple representing,you know, the higher chakras and
like the spiritual

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (54:53):
and white being purity,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (54:56):
Very much so.
Black being protection, yes.
So it's really It's, it's prettymuch the same as you're going to
find anywhere else, et cetera,et cetera.
But where you get to get alittle bit fun with it are the
symbols and the things you putin the hex sign.

(55:16):
So a lot of it is nature based.
You'll find a lot of them thathave birds and oak leaves and
acorns and tulips.
It's very, it's very beautiful.
Y'all know what a distal finkis?
Okay.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (55:35):
I

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (55:36):
A distal fink.
It is a stylized goldfinch thatyou find in a lot of popular hex
signs.
It's so cute.
It's really so precious looking,dude.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (55:47):
a goldfinch, they're

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (55:49):
It brings good luck and happiness
wherever it's displayed.
And sometimes what's even cuteris when you make a hex sign for
a married couple, there will betwo distal finks and their necks
will be crossed over each other.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (56:02):
oh.
I'm looking at'em

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (56:03):
It's very precious.
It's very cute.
You have a lot of dove imagery,which represents purity and
peace, and it's a common symbolof the divine.
Hearts symbolize everlastinglove.
You will see them in a lot ofhex signs for engagements and
marriages, so maybe you'll seetwo little distal finks with

(56:24):
their necks crossed, and they'resurrounded by little hearts on
all sides.
It's very precious.
The oak leaf and the acorn.
Oak leaves are representingstrength and endurance, and
acorns may be used to symbolizechildren or the number of
children a couple wish to have.
maybe you've got six acorns.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (56:46):
Damn.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (56:47):
Maybe you want six kids.
That's really, that's truly allthe concrete information that I
have for you today.
Again, like I said, I can't sayit enough.
I am barely only scratching thesurface of this, and there are
so many other, uh, knowledgeableand articulated and much more

(57:07):
well educated people that havewritten books about this, so go
seek them out.
Always continue learning.
Don't just listen to one podcastepisode and leave it at that.
I'm begging you

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (57:21):
I have a question for you.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (57:23):
I

skye_1_01-26-2025_1011 (57:25):
practice this specific Folk practice, but
I don't know if you were alreadygoing to but if you would can
you Discuss what you already doin your practice that maybe
overlaps with some of thisancestral Practice, you know,
are there certain things thatyou do that maybe mirror or

(57:45):
reflect?
Maybe something instinctuallythat you do that could be passed
down ancestrally In your,because I know that you do sort
of, uh, folk practice esquethings in your own practice, so
you want to talk about that?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (58:02):
Uh, there are whispers and echoes
and flavors of this in mypractice.
I would not call myself apractitioner of Brow Harai,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (58:12):
no.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (58:13):
I also, I, I was looking into
whether it is a closed practiceor not,

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (58:20):
It seems

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (58:21):
cause that's something I try to be,
it's like a soft no, soft yes,depending on.
what your own personal feelingsabout it are.
And also, again, there's notreally like a concrete one way
of learning it or teaching it.

(58:42):
There are teachers of it who arelike very strict and they have
their own set of rules that theyfollow and they will not teach
to anyone who is not Christianand does not have the same faith
as them.
There are teachers who will takeon anybody regardless of their
background and their faith.

(59:03):
So it, it really depends onwhere you are and who you're
learning it from.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (59:08):
No, my real question was just like,
when you were doing yourresearch, what things while you
were researching did you think,I already naturally kind of do
this?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (59:19):
I would say a lot of, the, you
know, everyday granny remediesfor like ailments.
I already do apply like salvesand like aloe to burns.
I do a lot of, you know,gargling salt water when your
throat feels kind of icky.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (59:38):
I just did that this morning.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (59:40):
so good, dude.
It's so good.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (59:43):
with saints and

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (59:45):
I do work with saints, I do, I write
petitions when I have a specificthing.
There's a lot of, especially forHexenmeisters, there's a really
strong emphasis on like personalcontemplative prayer and like
reading psalms that I wasalready like getting into

(01:00:07):
myself.
That has been very helpful.
So, a lot of it has just beenlike, sort of putting the things
I have already been feeling intoa proper avenue and framework,
where I like, I've had allthese, these impulses and these
urges to like, try something, orlike, thinking something is

(01:00:28):
missing, and then finding actuallike, concrete ways I can put
them into practice, which wasvery helpful.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:00:36):
I think that that's what folk
magic is.

river_1_01-26-2025_ (01:00:39):
Absolutely.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:00:41):
It's just kind of grabbing around and
using what you got and

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:00:46):
It's very much using what you got,
yeah.
You, a lot of the times you didnot have a lot of resources.
Sometimes all you had was aglass of water and a prayer.
that'll do it.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:00:57):
more than enough sometimes.

river_1_01-26-2025_10 (01:00:59):
Sometimes you can do much more with that
than You know, not to bedisparaging, but like, 50 worth
of magical supplies from Etsy.
You know, I feel like sometimeswe get I'll just, I'll, again,
I'll speak for myself, I'm nottrying to throw anybody under
the bus, but I get I get toozoomed out, and I'm like, I need

(01:01:20):
all my ingredients to beperfect.
And I need eight differentherbs, and I need three
different colored candles.
When you really don't, you justneed, like, the intention.
And, like, the focus.
And, like, you have to, like,really, in your heart, believe
it.
You

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:01:37):
Yeah, I think that it, those things
can come in handy.
Depending on what you're doing,because sometimes the
environment and the atmospherecan put you in a certain
mindset.
However, yeah, but at the rootof it, it truly just comes down
to your power, your belief, yourintention, and the work that you

(01:01:57):
do from that.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:01:59):
Yeah, very much so.
So this was, uh, this was veryhelpful for me, especially when
I was just getting into lookinginto my ancestral practices and
a lot of, uh, reestablishingwhat Catholicism means to me and
for me in my practice.

(01:02:21):
So maybe it'll be helpful.
I did also, after all this, Iwrote like a stream of
consciousness paragraph aboutChristianity that I don't know
if I want to read anymore.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:02:32):
you can read it then cut it out if
you don't

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:02:34):
It was just a lot of, how a lot of
Christianity today is veryexternally based, and a lot of
it is about.
externally judging people whoaren't living the right way that
you would consider it.

(01:02:54):
And a lot of condemning peoplefor things and it's less about
your own personal intimaterelationships with the divine in
whatever way you want to callit.
And I feel like so much of it,It's not, maybe posturing is not

(01:03:15):
the right word, but maybe it isthe right word.
But, uh, it just feels bad and Ifeel like people are just
checking off boxes of like, Oh,I went to confession.
Oh, I went to my Sunday service.
So I'm a better Christian thanyou are.
And they're not developing orexploring things.

(01:03:37):
They're just doing things theway people are telling them to
do.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:03:41):
it definitely seems kind of more
social and not actuallyspiritual deeply.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:03:46):
yes, it feels like you are, you're
going to your weekly club andeverybody is on the, you know,
the same page.
And if you don't agree withsomething, you get kicked out of
the club.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:03:58):
just say, look, I have the Christian
hat.
I wear my Christian hat.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:04:01):
Yeah.
Look at, hey, fellow Christianhats.
Yeah.
And it, it just, I don't want tosay it feels inauthentic, but I
feel like.
You should have curiosity, andyou should be able to ask
questions without fear.
And I am still doing that.

(01:04:21):
I am not, I'm not pretending tohave it all figured out and be
like, I know how to doCatholicism the right

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:04:28):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_10122 (01:04:28):
really

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:04:29):
Mm hmm.
Mm

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:04:30):
I think it is str Have you ever
met This is gonna sound rude,and I don't really want it to
sound that way, but I don'treally know how else to say it.
I have met very few What I wouldconsider true Christians in my
life Where I meet them and theyhave a spiritual holiness about
them.
They have a peace within themAnd I feel that They are truly

(01:04:55):
Walking in jesus's footsteps andthey are open minded and
compassionate and sympatheticbut they love God and themselves
and others and it's just when Imeet a what I And calling a
quote unquote true Christian,I'm like, oh,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:05:15):
This is so different from everything
else I've experienced up untilthis point.

skye_1_01-26-2025_10114 (01:05:20):
people.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:05:21):
And you feel so safe.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05:23):
Yeah.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:05:24):
Yeah.
Few and far between.
I have not experienced many.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05:30):
Yeah.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05:31):
Most of the ones I, well, I don't
know if, I guess Mormons aren'tChristians.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:05:36):
I don't know the specifics

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05:37):
know if that counts.

river_1_01-26-2025_1 (01:05:39):
Mormonism.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:05:41):
mean they, they celebrate Jesus as
the Son of God.
So, All I'm saying is the, Imean, the nicest, like, most
genuinely, quote, Christianpeople I've met have been
Mormons.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:05:54):
say they are very nice.
They are very polite people.
So that's really, I don't know,I kind of just lost it towards
the end.
And I've been thinking a lotabout, like, Christianity in
general, in ways that are hardfor me to concretely articulate,
but I'm having a lot ofthoughts, as we all should.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:06:11):
to keep bombarding you with
questions, but I'm deeplyfascinated.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:06:14):
is, this is the, the open platform
now.
I

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:06:16):
Open floor.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:06:17):
to say.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:06:18):
After this research that you've done,
and how you just said thatyou've been pondering Your
relationship with Christianityand being a folk Catholic person
and everything.
After you've done all thisresearch, is there any sort of
restructuring or things in thefuture that you now feel like

(01:06:44):
you want to try?
Is there any new, are there any,like you were saying earlier,
holes that you've now noticedthat you, Maybe have more of an
idea of an avenue that you wantto go down after doing this
research?
Or are you still, just afterthis research, realizing that

(01:07:04):
there are more possibilities?
Like, how are you feeling now?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:07:09):
I feel like largely most of my
restructuring and deconstructionand reconstruction has already
kind of been done in the waythat makes sense to me.
This was a very, like, affirmingthing for me.
There are still, I'm, I'm alwaysconstantly feeling like

(01:07:30):
something's missing, justgenerally speaking.
I always feel like there'ssomething else that I could be
incorporating.
But I, it does, cause I stillhave like a weird feelings and
relationship toward like capitalG God.
So that is something that like,I'm trying to unpack a little
bit more and like, integrateinto my practice in a way that

(01:07:51):
doesn't make me like, twinge a

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:07:53):
that that is probably largely due to
we were talking about, your viewon Modern Christianity, and the
Christians around you, and youprobably internally don't want
to associate with yourperception of them, you know?

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:08:13):
cause I'll even like, I'll, I'll read
a prayer or a psalm or whatever,and this was written like
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of years ago when
Christianity was very differentbut I'm still reading it in the
context of today where likesometimes, like I'll hear it in
like, what's that fucking megapreacher's name?

(01:08:36):
Like Joel, Joel Osteen?
Is that Joel?
I think it's Austin, I think.
But like, I'll hear it, like, inhis voice and his cadence and
I'm like, ugh, yuck.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:08:47):
It

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:08:48):
It's just like an echo of a memory
that you've

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:08:51):
Yeah, it's just like, the things I
would hear growing up where I'mlike, oh, that feels bad and I
feel like I need to unpack thatmore so I can have like, a
better relationship to capital GGod.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:09:03):
the narrative.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:09:04):
Yeah.
Which takes It's a very longtime, sometimes it takes an
entire lifetime.
So the work will never be overprobably.
So thanks for listening I guess,I don't really have anything
else.
Thanks for, if you made it thisfar, thanks for sitting through
it.
Uh, always be curious, alwaysfeel emboldened to ask questions

(01:09:28):
and not just listen to whatpeople tell you because they
told you to.
I think you should be, uh, youshould, you should be an
independent thinker and use yourbig juicy beautiful brain for

skye_1_01-26-2025_10 (01:09:37):
Especially within your own practice, I
think it's easy for us to limitourselves within our own
practice.
And say, well, this is who I am.
This is what I do.
When there are opportunitiesalways for us to expand out of
our comfort zone.

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:09:53):
you had told me even like three
years ago I would be Catholicagain.
I would have laughed in yourface.
Absolutely.
And, but I am.
And I do, I feel more fulfilledby it.
So, Life is funny like that.
It is not a concrete thing.

(01:10:14):
It is fluid.
It is always moving.
I feel like especially now, inthe current day and age, A lot
of folk practice is centered oncommunity and helping each other
and I feel like now more thanever that is very important for
reasons that are very obvious.
So, look into your own.

(01:10:35):
If you feel so inclined, lookinto your own folk practices.
Figure out what your people weredoing.
And just be good to each other.
That's all I got.

skye_1_01-26-2025_10 (01:10:46):
Beautiful.
I love this.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:10:49):
Well, listeners, if you have any
experience with This practice,or if you just wanna tell us
about your own ancestralpractices,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:10:58):
you know way more about brow hurry
than I do, please, write in.
Um,

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:11:05):
Coven [e-mail].
Death as in death, coven as incoven, pod as in
[e-mail], and we havean Instagram at death coven pod.
Any other announcementsbusiness.
Pleasures.

river_1_01-26-2025_1 (01:11:24):
pleasures, well now we're talking.
I think I'm gonna watch a movietoday, I think that's gonna be
my pleasure.

poop_1_01-26-2025_1011 (01:11:33):
Alright, so, by the power of three,

river_1_01-26-2025_101229 (01:11:37):
And so it is.

skye_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:11:38):
And so it is.

poop_1_01-26-2025_101142 (01:11:41):
and so it is.