Episode 36: The Lovers, The Chariot, and Strength

Welcome back dear listeners! If you need something to listen to while you hide from your family in the bathroom this Thanksgiving have we got the episode for you! It's another look at the fools journey through the major arcana, join us as River hops up on their little soapbox about the redemptive power of love, Poppy zooms at 65mph in a residential zone in the chariot, and finally Skye becomes ripped as all hell and tames a big cat with her beefy strength. Much like your Thanksgiving turkey this episode has some good meat, Bone Apple Teeth!

If you want to skip this week's hypothetical, zip over to 14:22

Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review! Join our community of listeners as we explore the mysteries of the afterlife through the lens of witchcraft.

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Episode Transcript

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (00:19):
Yeah.
I got to see the mountain goatslast night.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (00:22):
Yeah.
How was it?
Did you just go on your

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (00:25):
No, Greg and I went together.
and it was great.
It was this cute little outdoorvenue and the weather was
perfect.
It felt like fall.
There was like, it was chillyand then you had the smell of
leaves on the ground.

lover-boy-river_1_09-2 (00:40):
mountain Goats is very fall

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (00:42):
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (00:44):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (00:45):
and we got these Jamaican patties
from this food truck and it was,they were so good.
The whole thing was just sogood.
Only thing I didn't like was itwas an hour and a half drive
each way and going back I was sosleepy afterwards.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (00:59):
because you gotta stay to the end

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:01):
And they always do at least one
encore.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:04):
at least.
I

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:06):
Yeah.
They finished the show lastnight with no children and John
Darnell.
Um, John came out for the lasttime and he was like, this one's
for everybody out there who'sgoing through a shitty divorce,
but decided to come out todayanyway.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:24):
This one's for everyone who's really
fucking mad at their

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:27):
Yeah.
Uh, everyone's singing along andyeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:31):
Was it the encore Like the final?
The final encore song.
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (01:35):
encore song.
Yeah.
Ugh.
Such a good one.
He ended the first quote realshow with, this year, which is
also like their big anthem,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:46):
what a, what a mood shift from this
year to no children.
That's this extreme vibe shift

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:54):
Does Greg like the mountain goats.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (01:56):
He does, he's not a super fan like
I am, but he does like themountain goats.
How can you not,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (02:02):
How can you not?
They got something for

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (02:05):
John Darnell is

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (02:06):
lowkey?
I don't I don't like them.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (02:07):
he's not a great singer, but his,
he's a great

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (02:11):
like them.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (02:12):
I think he's a good singer in the
way that the singer for ModestMouse is a good singer.
I think they're all on par, andI love Modest

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (02:21):
sound, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (02:22):
It's kind of whiny to me and

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (02:24):
it's very nasally.
It's because he, he can't hitthe high notes, but he puts them
in every single song.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (02:31):
But he really tries with all his

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (02:32):
He like yells them almost, which is
fine.
I'm not there for, for hisvoice.
I'm there for

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (02:38):
He's one of those talk singer type
guys.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (02:40):
a real Johnny Cash

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (02:42):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09- (02:42):
publishing a book of lyrics, which is
pretty much just gonna be like apoetry book, I guess.
And I need to read, he has likea, I think it's a horror novel
that I wanted to read this fall.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (02:54):
Is Wolf and White Van not a horror

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (02:56):
have you read it?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (02:58):
No.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (03:00):
I wouldn't consider

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (03:01):
told me about it, I was like, that
sounds horrifying.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (03:04):
It is horrifying, but I would not
classify it as horror,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (03:08):
Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (03:08):
but I'm pretty sure, I think it's
called Devil House.
I'm pretty sure Devil House isactually

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (03:13):
Devil

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (03:14):
Devil House.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (03:17):
Ooh, I know.
A spot takes you to the DevilHouse.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (03:21):
What are we?
15 years old in a horror

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (03:23):
I know.
A spot.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (03:25):
necking in the basement of an abandoned,
house man in a

lover-boy-river_1_09-2 (03:29):
Necking.
I haven't heard that term inyears.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (03:33):
Do you have a hypothetical prepared
for

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (03:35):
well, I wanna do like an actual intro
real quick.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (03:37):
yeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (03:38):
I know, I was just asking.
Okay.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (03:41):
Uh, Welcome to Death Coven.
This is a podcast you'relistening to.
We are a death coven talking toyou in your ears.
Hello, my name is Poppy.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (03:53):
I am in your ears.
I'm in your ears.
I'm in your ears.
I'm river.
I'm just joking.
I'm not in your ears.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (04:01):
And I am the centipede that crawls
into your ears when you sleep atnight.
I'm sky.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (04:06):
What was that thing's name again?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (04:07):
What the fucking nightmare weaver?
Some shit.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (04:10):
Mm-hmm.
The Night Weaver, I think, Idon't know.
Go back and listen to our otherCrypted, our second crypted

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (04:17):
about it anymore.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (04:19):
Anyway, today we are going back to the
tarot.
Uh, we have a series that'songoing.
It's not super regular, butevery once in a while, the three
of us go over three cards fromthe major arcana.
And today we are covering inorder the lovers, the chariot

(04:40):
and strength.
So that's what we got going on.
But before we get into that,would you guys like to do a
little hypothetical?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (04:48):
Yes,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (04:48):
I feel like this is the first one
that I've actually prepared in aminute.

lover-boy-river_1_0 (04:53):
handcrafted

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (04:54):
Yeah, handcrafted.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (04:55):
when

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (04:57):
looked back at my hypothetical notes
and this one was all the way atthe bottom, meaning I wrote it
like at least nine months ago,so

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (05:09):
It's had time to

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (05:10):
I don't even remember writing
this, but we're gonna do it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (05:12):
Vintage.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (05:13):
It's a vintage

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (05:15):
it could have had a baby by now.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (05:18):
Ew,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (05:19):
True.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (05:19):
it's a virgin.
We haven't even heard it

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (05:21):
Yeah.
Fair.
It's celibate

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (05:24):
okay, you are going to pick up some
things.
You're in the Walmart parkinglot and you accidentally cut off
a man driving.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (05:36):
a nightmare already.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (05:37):
he's an evil wizard.
And he's pissed off.
You pissed him off again

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (05:44):
I gotta stop running into this

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (05:46):
yeah, you need to be paying attention
to your surroundings.
I mean, you didn't mean to, buthe still got cut off and he's
gonna, he's gonna take it

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (05:53):
Was he the one who turned us into a
squirrel on the weekends?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (05:56):
turned you into a squirrel.
He turns you into a bloodsucking insect

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (06:00):
Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (06:02):
I gotta move outta this fucking
town.
I gotta get away from this guy.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (06:06):
So this time he is cursing you to
transform into an existingproduct that will sit on the
shelf at Walmart.
However, he says, if you canlast 24 hours without being
bought, so if nobody picks youup and takes you home with them

(06:27):
and purchases you, I'll turn youback into a human.
You just gotta last 24 hours,you're gonna be placed in the
front position.
On the shelf or you know, thebin, whatever.
So you're near the top.
So your objective is to choosewhat you're going to transform
into, and you gotta picksomething that you think
nobody's gonna buy within thenext 24

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (06:46):
Hmm mm I think I have one.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (06:49):
Oh yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (06:51):
I think, and it might, it might,
it might come back to bite me inthe ass, but.
I think I would pick one ofColleen Hoover's older novels to
be, it's not Verity.
It's not whatever.
The one she just came out with.
It's not one of the popular

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (07:11):
Yeah.
It's like this.
This is us

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (07:14):
It's like November 9th or whatever.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21 (07:16):
November

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (07:17):
one about like a school shooting

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (07:19):
Oh shit.
I didn't know she

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (07:20):
Yeah.
Or some shit like that.
I don't know.
I never read

pawpaw-host339_1_09- (07:23):
listeners.
How many times have we said thewords school shooting on this
podcast?

lover-boy-river_1_09-2 (07:28):
Somebody gave us a spreadsheet, somebody
gave us a count

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21 (07:32):
topical.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (07:32):
I haven't.
I was, I went to foodimmediately, but now I'm
remembering

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (07:36):
I thought food.
Yeah.
But I was like, people just beeating anything.
People just buy shit and thenthey don't eat it and then they
throw it away.
'cause it's been in theirfreezer for like three months.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (07:47):
Okay.
I think I know what I'm gonnapick.
I'm going to pick the worst car.
Air freshener.
The little tree.
Like the tropical tree, you knowwhat I mean?
Like The The least popular one?
Yeah.
Not black ice, not thetraditional green one.
Not like your go-to fragrancesthat people are

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (08:09):
in a bad way, one that gives you a
headache when you open it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (08:12):
Exactly.
It's got like coconut, like onesthat people don't really want
for their car very much.
I'm gonna go with that one.
Whatever the, I think it'sorange that like orangey looking
one, so that's what I'm gonnapick, because I feel like people
probably aren't, especially thistime of year we're recording
this in fall, people aren'treally in the vibe.
I was also trying to thinkseasonally, like who.

(08:34):
Like who's not gonna get whatright now, based on season,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (08:38):
Mm-hmm.
Similarly, while you were sayingthat I, my brain went to, like a
shitty fishing lure, you know,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (08:46):
I thought about getting something
from like the fishing or huntingsection,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (08:50):
A gun listeners, if you don't live
in America, you can buy

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_ (08:53):
people are fishing and hunting right
now.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (08:56):
I thought that was like a spring
and summer thing.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (08:57):
I think so

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (08:58):
Okay.
ooh, I'm gonna go to the bathingsuit section then.
I'll be an

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (09:07):
not that time of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (09:09):
itsy bitsy, teeny weeny, yellow poda
bikini.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (09:12):
But since it is out of season, it's
marked down and people buy shitfor the next

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (09:18):
You have to be a really ugly

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (09:20):
Yeah.
I'll, oh yeah, I'll, I'll bereal ugly there.
There will be frills.
I'll be missing one pad in theboob.
You know, like one boob pad butnot the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (09:28):
Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (09:29):
Maybe either make your size like way
too small or way too big, likenot an accessible size for
majority of the population,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (09:37):
Yeah.
Okay, so secondary question.
If you

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (09:41):
Fuck

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (09:41):
bought, are you okay with the rest of
your life now?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (09:48):
no.
cause I'm a shitty fuckingColleen Hoover

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (09:50):
but I feel like you at least get to
like sit on a shelf oroccasionally, maybe you'll be
read, you might be donated to alibrary at some point.
That would be nice,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (09:59):
maybe I can feel the touch of a human
every now and

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (10:03):
Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (10:04):
my pages get real sticky and like
crumbs fall in me.
Somebody sneezes on

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (10:09):
Yeah.
They leave you in their bag.
Oh God.
The other day I had just boughta paperback and I put my water
bottle in my bag without closingthe lid accidentally, and it
just got soaked and I was able

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (10:25):
It gets real

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (10:26):
But yeah, I felt really guilty.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (10:30):
I

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (10:31):
Was it your book or a library book?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (10:32):
was my book.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (10:33):
ah, no harm, no foul.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (10:35):
I would not be happy if my scent
would expire quite quickly andthen I would be thrown out.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (10:40):
the dumpster.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (10:41):
I'd be rotting at the dump.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (10:43):
my, my consciousness is just in this
object forever until I like.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21 (10:49):
Degrade, I

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (10:50):
or some shit.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (10:51):
until they burn all the books.
Um, and you get thrown in there

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (10:56):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (10:57):
it is by a woman.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (10:58):
It is by a woman and it's about a
school shooting or incest orwhatever.
It's all she ever fucking writesabout.
And domestic violence.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (11:07):
I think I would be okay because
I'd get to like go to the beachin the pool sometimes, but I, I
feel like Walmart bathing suitsalso

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (11:15):
But then you'd be touching
somebody's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (11:17):
Yeah.
I would be in circling a crotch.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (11:21):
You'd be up somebody's ass crack

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (11:23):
I probably get all Sandy too.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (11:26):
Yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (11:26):
That would not be pleasant.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (11:28):
Sweaty.
Maybe also,'cause it's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (11:30):
Yeah.
And you know, like when Elasticgets older and it gets all
crunchy,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (11:34):
yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (11:35):
my bones

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (11:36):
It gets like

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (11:36):
does it do that?
How does it do that?
Yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (11:39):
I don't know.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (11:40):
I have an old pair of yoga shorts
that I've had for a really longtime, and like the waistband,
like crunches now when I stretchthem and I'm like, how do you,
your fabric,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (11:48):
Yeah.
Well, the, I think the elasticis plastic, right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-2 (11:52):
Probably everything's plastic.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (11:54):
Even my blood is plastic at this
point.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (11:56):
We got microplastics.
Yeah.
My brain is just a perfectlittle Lego

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (12:03):
Yeah.
I'm a Barbie girl in every senseof the word.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (12:05):
Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (12:06):
Okay.
Are we satisfied with, uh, withour choices?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (12:10):
happy about it, but I made my bed.
Sometimes

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (12:15):
pissing this guy off?
Like what do you expect?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (12:18):
it's hard.
First of all, when did he gethis license?
And also what car is he driving?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (12:22):
When did he get his license?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (12:24):
Yeah.
Is that shit even expired?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (12:27):
Uh, well, he, he renews it on time,
but he has been driving sincethe Model Ts came out

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (12:34):
Has he kept up to date with like new
traffic laws?
So is it even my fault that Icut him off or was he doing some
shit that he shouldn't have beendoing and I just

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (12:44):
I don't know, man.
I wasn't there.
I wasn't there.
I didn't see it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (12:49):
Piss.
This wizard's pissing me off.
Now I'm saying

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (12:54):
I do feel fairly confident that no
one would buy me,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (12:58):
I feel somewhat confident.
No one would buy an old ColleenHoover novel.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (13:04):
could go 50 50.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (13:05):
That that one's the most likely, I
think, out of all

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (13:07):
Is it not one of the popular ones?
it's one of

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (13:11):
still a book People, people who might
be like, oh, I've heard ofColleen Hoover, or like a
frequent reader of ColleenHoover who maybe just didn't
read that

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (13:20):
I guess if you're a frequent
reader of calling Hoover, youneed help.
I'm

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (13:24):
you could be like an Atkins diet
cookbook or like South BeachDiet Cookbook or something like
old and outdated.
Who's buying that?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (13:34):
The Bible low key.
Am I right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (13:36):
Uh, why do they sell em at Kroger?
Why can't I go to my grocerystore and buy a Bible?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (13:42):
Comment down below.
If you know why we can buy aBible at the grocery store.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (13:46):
got answers, please tell me.
'cause I'm very confused.
And it's next to the BeanieBabies.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (13:52):
Huh.
And Beanie Babies are fucked upthese days.
They're

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (13:55):
Yeah, they're fucking ugly.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21 (13:57):
classic.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (13:58):
they need Christ.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (13:59):
Yeah.
They're big old demonic eyes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (14:03):
They've been rebaptized.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (14:06):
River, I need you to do like a
Demonology episode, like througha

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (14:10):
I can try.
I can do my darnedest.
That's gonna take a while.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_ (14:16):
That's a broad, that's a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (14:18):
Yeah.
I feel like that That's like ariverside.
Okay, so let's, let's get intothe cards.
So as a recap for you, ourlittle fool he set out on his
journey, he has learned whathe's capable of from the
magician.
He sought the high priestess forwisdom and reinforced his

(14:39):
connection to the divine.
He's drawn power from theemperor and the empress.
He's assimilated the spiritualwork from those that came before
him, studying tradition from theRaan, the Hierophant, whatever.
Now he's ready to go out intothe world.
So who's he gonna meet next?
And what's he gonna learn?

(15:00):
Stay tuned.
Find out

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (15:03):
it up so well.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (15:04):
Coven.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (15:05):
Oh,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (15:05):
Oh, Garnet.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (15:07):
sorry.
Garnet.
Garnet intermission.
Yeah, he's being a real brat,but right now he's, uh, up on
the tower,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (15:15):
the Tahu.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (15:16):
of cleaning his leg.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (15:19):
the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (15:19):
the tower.
Her me's in his tower right

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (15:21):
we're all gonna be playing hot potato
with.
Who gets to cover the

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (15:24):
The Tower and the Devil are gonna

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (15:27):
want it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21 (15:27):
episode.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (15:29):
Yeah.
I'll, I'll do the devil.
I'm cool with doing the devil.
I don't wanna do the tower.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (15:34):
I will do the tower.
I don't

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (15:35):
I'm sick of that guy.
I,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (15:38):
Okie dokey.
Arty Chokey.
Who's up first?
It's River

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (15:43):
it's me,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-2 (15:45):
Loverboy,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (15:46):
lover Boy River.
That's what they call me.
Let me get my, my shit properlyset up.
I should have done this before.
'cause I knew I was going first.
Oopsy poopy.
That's okay.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (16:00):
Okay.
I'm gonna blow my nose whileyou're doing this.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (16:02):
Yeah.
Go blow your nose, blow yourload.
For, for our fool's journey.
I know how this integrates inlike the broader scale of like
the journey of the self and theperson as you're navigating
through this, this world andthis path before you.

(16:26):
But the lovers are two littleinteresting characters and
they're kind of, they got theirown thing going on, much like
all of the major arcana.
They've got their own thing

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (16:38):
They're kissing.
They're

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (16:39):
They're not kissing, they're standing.
No, not in the card, but maybein real life they could be.
They are naked.
Anything could happen.
They're both naked.
There's a little penis.
So the lovers, we'll start withthe obvious, which is the
imagery of it all.
You look at it and you see twolittle naked folk.

(17:03):
they're

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (17:04):
Can you hold your card up while
you're describing it to me so Ican have a, uh, yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (17:09):
Okay.
Hopefully Garnet doesn't knockit out of my hand.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_ (17:12):
That's okay.
Okay.
Please continue.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (17:15):
Okay, so we've got our two little
lovers down here.
Obviously with the, theChristian influence of the Rider
Way tarot deck.
They represent Adam and Eve andthe story of Genesis.
Ya know it, you love it.
Uh, the woman is standing infront of the tree of knowledge
of good and evil and it has thesnake that tempted her to eat

(17:39):
the fruit coiled around itsignifying the temptation of it
all.
The man is standing in front ofthe tree of life because Adam is
like the beginning of creation.
He was the first human.
You know how it goes.
We've got a big old angel abovethem and that is the Archangel
Raphael.
My boy love this guy and he isreally considered like the angel

(18:06):
of humanity.
He loves humans.
He loves getting involved in ouraffairs.
He's mostly known as like thedivine healer and the divine
physician, but he's also anangel of matchmaking and happy
meetings because he loves love.
And that's part of why I startedworking with him in the first

(18:28):
place about being real editor.
Maybe cut that out.
We'll see.
But uh, there's a big old sunbehind him signifying the joy
and the happiness of love.
You know, you get those warmfuzzies and in the background
way in the back, there's a bigold mountain in between the two
figures.
And that can symbolize theeffort and the hard work it

(18:52):
takes to maintain love becauselove takes work.
And we'll get into that.
So that's the card itself.
That's what we've we're rockingwith visually here.
And the story of Genesis is abig one.
The story of creation in thefall of humanity is, depending

(19:13):
on which version of the Bibleyou pick up, is multiple hours
long to read.
I'm sorry, garnets rubbing hardagainst my mic right now,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (19:22):
to me.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (19:24):
baby, please.
I do.
I love you so much.
But I'm working right now.
I'm kind of busy with something.
I think she settled down for aminute.
So

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (19:36):
Do you wanna recap that?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (19:38):
Yeah.
The story of Genesis as long asfuck, it takes several hours to
read.
It's literally the story ofcreation.
Adam and Eve are the epitome ofthe lovers.
And the story of Genesis isabout choice.
It's about free will, it's abouttemptation, consequences,

(20:01):
suffering, and redemption.
And that's what life is allabout, baby.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (20:06):
Talk about a fool's

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2 (20:07):
Beautiful.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (20:09):
Talk about a fool's journey.
You got it all in.
The lovers is culturally, we allknow the gist of it.
Adam and Eve live in paradise.
In the garden.
There's no suffering.
There's no death, there's noillness.
They're not self-conscious.
They're naked, they're pure,they're innocent.
They are unsolid by sin andevil.

(20:30):
'cause they don't know nobetter.
They literally don't have thatknowledge of good and evil yet,
uh, they want for nothing.
So long as they don't eat thefruit from this one specific
tree.
A snake appears one day to eveand the snake says, Hey, what if
you ate this fruit?
And Eve's like, well, God saidif I ate it, I would die

(20:52):
immediately.
And the snake's like, uh, you'renot gonna die.
I promise you're not gonna die.
Calm down.
That sounds crazy.
I can't believe God said that toyou.
But you're not gonna die.
You're just gonna become likeGod with the knowledge of good
and evil.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (21:09):
Correct me if I'm wrong.
It wasn't even that God toldher.
God told Adam, who told

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (21:13):
God told Adam.
Adam told her, and she said, myhusband said not to do that.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (21:20):
Yeah, and the snake was like, okay,
but did God say that to youdirectly?
Or

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (21:25):
Live a little, have a little fun with
it.
What if he's literally, thesnake was like, what if he's
lying?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (21:32):
And she's like, what

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (21:33):
if he's secretly eating the fruit?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (21:35):
Live deliciously, eat this fruit.
And so she does, and she gives apiece of fruit to Adam and she's
like, Hey, I didn't fucking die.
Eat this fruit.
Let's see what's going on.
God finds out they ate the fruitbecause now they're
self-conscious that they'renaked.
They're covering themselves upwith leaves because they have

(21:56):
modesty now.
So God finds out, cast them outof paradise and thus the fall of
man and the inheritance oforiginal sin begins.
Now, afab people get periods andchildbirth sucks really badly
for us.
What is it for?
Men?
Couldn't tell you.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (22:16):
They lost a rib or whatever.
I don't know.
I guess

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (22:19):
He already lost one.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (22:20):
but yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (22:21):
to

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (22:21):
Men got an easy amab, people got an
easy deal outta this anyway,where was I?
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So choice is a big theme.
Free will and making choices inthe consequence of those choices
are a big theme of.
The Lover's card, but it's notjust a story about endless

(22:43):
suffering and the consequencesof your actions and getting sent
to hell or whatever.
It's a card that reminds us thatthe redemptive power of love is
really our soul purpose andredemption rarely comes without
putting in the hard work, whichis what the mountain's about in
the car.

(23:04):
'cause like I said before, realtrue love takes effort.
Familial, romantic, platonicself-love.
You have to put in the work tonurture that love and keep it
fed and keep it growing.
Uh, specifically the act of selfemptying love, which was what

(23:25):
Jesus was embodying in his timeon earth, if you so believe
that.
And Jesus tried to teach us thatin our human forms to help our
souls.
Expand beyond the ego.
So self emptying love isselfless, non possessive and

(23:46):
focused outwards in service toothers.
And this means, unfortunately,having love and compassion for
people that you don'tnecessarily like and annoy the
fuck out of you.
Sometimes we've all got somebodyin our lives that we kind of
can't fucking stand, but we haveto love and respect them as a

(24:06):
person regardless because theyare a human being and they
deserve that care and respecteven if we don't like them.
I literally had a dream lastnight in the dream involving two
of my coworkers, one of which Ican't fucking stand, and one I'm
friends with.
And I said to my coworker thatI'm friends with self emptying
love is really hard when youcan't fucking stand the person.

(24:29):
And then I woke up cause that'sunfortunately a big theme in my
life right now.
But we'll get into that later.
So that's my little, my littlespiel on self emptying love and
why it's so beautiful andimportant and something I'm
trying to work on.
Back to Genesis as a metaphor,because the bible is a metaphor,
it's an allegory, it's not aliteral historical account.

(24:54):
Hopefully we can all, if you'relistening to this, hopefully we
can all agree on that.
But the metaphor is abouthumanity being separated from
that perfect unity and thatoneness with the divine.
And it introduces us littlehumans to concepts of duality,

(25:14):
opposite ideas right and wrong,good and evil things we've never
had to contend with before andreally think about'cause they
didn't exist for us.
But it also bestows us the giftof understanding the scope and
responsibility of our actionsand our choices.
It offered us a chance to redeemboth ourselves and others

(25:36):
because if Adam and Eve hadnever left the garden, humanity
never would've gained this newawareness.
Everything would be quoteunquote perfect all the time,
but everything would stayexactly the same forever, and
there would be no opportunity togrow and forgive and evolve as
people, because challenge iswhat facilitates growth.

(25:56):
Both, unfortunately.
So now that we've got thebiblical lore in a nutshell, and
we've got the symbolism of ourlittle lovers, uh, what does it
mean when it shows up in yourreading for you, obviously, if
you're asking about asignificant other or a potential
romantic partner, it's a nicelittle sign.

(26:20):
If you get it upright, it's anice little sign.
If you pull it reversed, maybeyou need to think about whether
or not you and your partner areon the, are on the same page.
Maybe you need to make sure yourvalues are aligned.
Maybe there's a conflict goingon that you need to resolve to
get that harmony back in therelationship.

(26:42):
Something to think on and stinkon for me currently.
Uh, harmony and trying tointegrate that harmony into my
life is a very big theme.
Every day, I am constantly beatover the head by two, two twos,
which is all about balance andharmony and duality and union.

(27:05):
Every single day I'm gettingreminded of this and I'm like,
stop, stop.
I get it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (27:10):
adds up to six, which is the number
of the Lover's card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (27:14):
That's right.
And 6, 6, 6, 6 is not the markof the devil in numerology or
angel numbers or whatever it is,like the evolution of two, two
twos where it's like theperfection and the harmony that
you get after you integrate thebalance.
I love getting a little 6, 6, 6.
I love seeing that.

(27:36):
So for me, if I am to pull thelovers, which I have a couple
times recently, it representsthat harmony and unity within
myself.
Um, not constantly being at warwith duality and black and white
thinking, which I often ambecause I have a hard time
having two things be true atonce and coexisting in my brain.

(27:57):
I need one thing to be right.
but that's just a me problem.
it's also for me about the blendand union of masculine and
feminine energy because we'veall got both of'em.
They all live inside of us andwe need to nurture and feed both
of them to be a stable and wholeand equalized human being.

(28:19):
And it's also a reminder that Ican love others best and give
them grace and compassion when Iremember to do it for myself as
well, because I'm not alwaysgreat at doing it internally.
And that really bleeds outexternally.
I become a real bitch when I'mmean to myself, to everyone else
around me

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (28:37):
I want you to hurt like I hurt.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (28:39):
Exa, I'm feeling shitty and I want to
take it out on you because Idon't want anyone to feel good
when I'm feeling shitty again,that's a me problem working on
it.
So at its core, the Lover's Cardis about harmony, union, and
choice.
Whether internal or externaldepends entirely on your own
situation and circumstance andthe reading and the question

(29:00):
that you're currently doing.
You're gonna be able to find themeaning for yourself better than
I'm gonna be able to tell youupright.
It can indicate strong romanticbonds, a successful partnership,
internal union with the divine,or simply a reminder that love
takes work.
I know they're always, peopleare always like, love should be

(29:23):
easy.
Love should be effortless.
Hey, it's not.
Love takes fucking work.
Love's inconvenience sometimes.
And if you really love somebody,you gotta put in that work for
it.
Reversed, perhaps it could meanthere's a conflict that needs to
be addressed in a partnership,whether romantic or not.
It could be friends.
It could be just anyone you lovein your life.

(29:46):
Maybe you feel disconnected fromyourself and your connection to
the divine.
Or maybe you just need areminder to pour that love back
into yourself and fill up yourown cup and give yourself some
love.
So that's my, that's my spiel.
That's my takeaway.
Love is fucking hard, but loveis really, I, James Baldwin said
it best.

(30:06):
I think that love is the onlywork worth doing on this bitch
of an earth.
I'm paraphrasing that last part.
I love, love, I love the conceptof love.
I believe strongly in theredemptive powers of love being
the most powerful force onearth.
I love, love, romantic,platonic, familial.

(30:29):
Love is magic.
Love can change you so deeply atyour core.
I love it.
I love this stuff.
I love it.
I'm a romantic.
I'm a hopeless romantic and I'ma failed romantic, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (30:44):
They're still single.
Y'all, if y'all are interestedout there,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (30:47):
And I think that's for good reason
right now.
I think I've, I've got some workto be doing.
I'm not great in romanticsituations, but my friends, my
family, I love the shit

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (30:56):
Your cats,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (30:58):
My cats, they are my family.
I love the earth.
I love people as a whole.
I just think you know, all weneed is Love We need.
more love on this earth.
Love is all you need.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (31:14):
Snaps.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (31:15):
And now The lovers have hopped in
there.
They're little, they're a littleconvertible now.
They're taking a drive.
Uh

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (31:22):
yeah.
So we're, we're leaving thelovers behind.
We have learned about the powerof love.
We've learned that actions haveconsequences.
Perhaps we've made a choice.
so we'll move on to card numberseven, the chariot.
What are we gonna do with thatinformation, with that knowledge
that we've gained?

(31:43):
So, describing the chariot card,I'm not gonna go pick it up for
you guys.
If you want, you can Google it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (31:51):
That's okay.
I'm on.
I'm online right now.
I can

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (31:54):
Yeah.
but basically we've got a manand he is standing tall in a
chariot, surprise, surprise.
there is a square on his cheston each of his shoulders is a
crescent moon.
One is laughing, one is crying.
He's holding a wand similar tothe wand that the magician

(32:17):
holds.
Uh, the chariot itself on top,there's a canopy of stars.
The chariot is made of stone, soit's solid on the front.
There's a little red symbol, uh,with wings around it.
that's the yoni and the lingamlingam those symbols, behind

(32:38):
him.
There's a body of water, ariver, perhaps.
and then beyond that, you've gota city.
The main color of the card iskind of an orangey yellow, a
little bit more yellow thanorange.
and then in front of the chariotpulling the chariot, we've got
two sphinxes.
One is black, one is white, andthey're kind of looking in

(32:59):
opposite directions.
They're not face forward.
So let's break it down.
the color yellow is the maincolor of the card.
That's enthusiasm, excitement,energy.
Most of all.
We've got that.
Go, go, go.
Power behind this guard.
The man, he's got that square onhis chest.

(33:20):
The square is representative ofthe material world, being
grounded the earth.
The crescent moons on hisshoulders laughing and crying.
Crescent moons, first andforemost, they're a transitory
state.
It's like a symbol oftransition, movement and change,
the happiness and the sadness oneach of his shoulders.
So this man is carrying emotionson his body, um, which kinda

(33:44):
makes sense.
the sign of the card is cancer,so it's kind of an emotional
card, which at first glance youwouldn't really think that'cause
it's such a powerful card.
Not saying cancers aren'tpowerful, but, you know, I, I
tend to think of cancer as akind of soft boys, but they are
crabs and crabs.
They got their armor,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (34:04):
I got that hard shell.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (34:06):
got that scuttle to them.
So he's got these emotions onhis body, but he is still
looking forward.
So he.
Considering emotion, he'sletting it influence him, but
he's not focused on them.
That's not his main, mainobjective.
Finally, he's standing upstraight and tall.
He ain't sitting down.

(34:26):
He's not relaxing.
He's not passive in any way.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (34:30):
He's on a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (34:30):
He's on a mission.
He's not resting.
He's currently in an activestate.
The chariot, like I said, it'scarved from stone, so it is also
really solid and stable andcertain, but it's also really
heavy because stone is heavy.
Can you imagine a chariot madeof stone, like how much weight

lover-boy-river_1_09 (34:49):
absolutely not.
How are you pulling that thing?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (34:53):
And he's pretty beefy, I'm not gonna
lie.
It's kind of hot.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (34:57):
he's a cutie.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (34:59):
He is.
I love his little like starcrown.
It's very cute.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (35:03):
So, yeah, so the chariot's heavy.
It's not an easy ride.
It's not gonna be, you know,it's not made of bamboo.
The canopy covered in starsabove his head, represents his
connectedness to the universe,above his head.
You know, he's keeping thedivine wisdom in mind, but
similar to emotion.
that's not his sole focus.

(35:25):
He's not focused on connectionto the divine.
He's just letting it influencehim, remembering that square in
his chest.
He's influenced by the stars,but his work is in the material
world.
this is card number seven.
Seven is a prime number.
I kept seeing everywhere thatit's supposed to be mysterious,
like seven is a mysteriousnumber.

(35:46):
I, which I did not know, but.
Uh, they're the experts.
I don't know

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (35:51):
new every

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (35:52):
yeah, so it's a prime number.
So the only way to get there isto multiply it by one.
you know, it's not like eight,which is two times two times
two.
So if you wanna break it down,you have to break it down into
its components, three and four.
So the number three is likecreativity, intuition, uh, and

(36:13):
number four is practicality.
'cause again, you have that kindof image of the square, like the
stability, kind of going back tothe emperor card, I think.
so that kind of agrees with alot of sources that I saw about
the number seven, three plusfour intuition plus
practicality.
Seven is.
The seeker of truth number.

(36:33):
So it's independent, curious,mysterious, its motives are not
known to others, so it, holdseverything kind of close to the
chest.
It's not outwardly superobvious.
So maybe the charioteer himselfis keeping his goals to himself.
He's like, I am, I'm all, I needthis brain, these feet.

(36:54):
I know what I'm

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (36:55):
That 7, 7, 7 aspect, being mysterious
makes sense for seven.
Seven, seven, meaning good luck,you know,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (37:04):
because what causes good luck.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (37:05):
It's a mystery.
It just happens.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (37:08):
so the yoni and the lingam symbols
on the front of the chariot.
These are Hindu symbols thatrepresent the female and the
male aspects.
So the yoni, as you probablyknow, is, uh, like a vulva or a
womb.
It's the feminine representingShakti or the divine feminine.
And then the lingam is a peepee.
It's a pen.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (37:29):
Real penis heavy episode

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (37:30):
Yeah.
and it represents shiva or thedivine masculine.
So in these symbols on the frontof the chariot, you have
seamless integration ofmasculine and feminine energy
together, kind of like thelovers card.
So this is indicating balanceand harmony.
the charioteer, he's ready togo.
He's got this cocktail balancedjust right.

(37:52):
All of these elements.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (37:53):
cock.
Just kidding.
There's no emphasis.
It's perfectly balanced.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (37:59):
the, I mean, there's a man on the
card, he's driving.
The chariot, but the card isreally balanced between,
masculine and feminine.
So it's not a masculine cardbecause you need both to get
shit done.
Right.
You can't just rely solely on

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (38:15):
that action and receptiveness.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (38:18):
Yeah.
The sphinxes, the sphinxes areone of the most interesting
parts of the card.
I think you've got, a black oneand a white one.
Sphinxes generally indicateintuition or wisdom.
in the Charioteers case, maybethey represent instinct, One is
black, one is white.
You've got the yin and the, andthe yang energy there.

(38:42):
Just a side note, for somereason I always thought in yin
and yang that the white was thefeminine and the black was the
masculine, but it's actuallyswitched.
Yin is black, is feminine.
Yang is white and masculine.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (38:58):
I could see Yeah, like the, the
void, like the, the notsubmission per se Yeah.
But like just the, the, vastnessof

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (39:09):
The mystery of the, the mind.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (39:14):
can't figure out women, am I right?
I

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (39:17):
The lack of pigment.
All pigment, you know?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (39:20):
Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (39:21):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (39:21):
And like thinking about, like yoga
too, you've got yin and yangstyles of yoga.
Like yang is like your vinyasahigh energy movement.
Whereas yin yoga, I really love,if you haven't practiced yin
yoga, try it out.
It's very passive.
You're doing, you're holdingstretches and postures for a

(39:43):
really long time, like three tofive minutes usually.
And its purpose is to, you know,get into

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (39:48):
hurts sometimes when you're opening up
those hips, that shit

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (39:53):
Yeah, because it's not,'cause Yang is
all about like muscular action.
You're making your muscles dosomething.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (39:59):
through a

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (40:01):
Mm-hmm.
Whereas Yin is, is passive.
You're getting into what holdseverything together.
That

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (40:07):
And you literally just have to sit
with it and let it do what itdoes.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (40:13):
gravity, you know, affect your body,
allow making yourself.
Uh, the most important part ofYin, at least in my opinion, is
allowing yourself to relax,because that's the only way that
it will work.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (40:26):
start out holding and then eventually
inch by inch, you start letting

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (40:31):
Yeah.
If you haven't used a yogabolster, listeners look into it
because they're game changers.
Like, if you don't have one, youcan't, and you do have blocks,
you can use blocks.
can use pillows.
If you roll up a, a softerpillow, that will work too in a
pinch and it's cozy, but abolster, ugh, it really bolsters

(40:55):
you.
Anyway, back to the sphinxes.
So they're facing away from eachother, like they're trying to
pull the chariot in oppositedirections.
So there's some kind of opposingforces, maybe.
Is it positivity, negativity?
Is it masculine, feminine,selfishness and selflessness.

(41:18):
What?
Whatever it is, whatever you'reinterpreting it as being,
they're opposing forces.
But you need both sides of thecoin in order to make progress.
depending on the context, ifyou're doing a.
Reading involving multiplepeople, especially if you're in
a leadership role, they canrepresent two opposing
personalities that you have tokind of wrangle, together.

(41:40):
And even though they're pullingaway from each other, the
chariot tier is pulling themback to center, keeping them on
track, herding cats, if youwill.
So this duality again, showsbalance, potentially between
masculine and feminine, butreally any two opposing forces
that are equal and opposite toeach other.

(42:01):
You need both to progress.
Uh, so in the background you'vegot the city, the city ruled by
the emperor perhaps, and thenyou have the river and, and the
nature, uh, ruled by theemperor.
So it also has, both of thosesources of power.
As well, the masculine femininebalance.
The charioteer knows that heneeds to grasp and harness both

(42:24):
if he's going to be successful.
You need to know what's behindyou to anticipate what's coming
in front of you.
who you are influences youractions, right?
But your actions in turn makeyou who you are.
Interpretations upright.
I saw in a couple places that ifyou were to add the magician and

(42:44):
the emperor card together, youwould get the chariot.
So magician plus emperor equalschariot.
You've got that directness andthe control of the emperor, plus
the manifestation power of themagician.
Don't let your dreams just bedreams.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (43:01):
Just do it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (43:04):
focus, determination.
You're moving forward.
You know what you want.
everything that's happened onyour journey up until this point
has helped you figure out whatit is you want, what goal it is
you're working towards, and nowit's time to make it happen.
It has big success, energy,confidence, you know, you draw

(43:25):
this card, maybe you'reconfident that if you put in the
work, you're going to succeed.
You just need

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (43:31):
I often see it as permission.
Like if you were asking aquestion in a reading and the
chariot comes up, it's like,yes, yes, yes.
Go

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (43:38):
Mm-hmm.
It's like, you know what youneed to do now.
You just need to do it,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (43:43):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (43:43):
be successful.
not to say that there will notbe challenges because anything
can come up on the road ahead ofyou.
Uh, so you're gonna need thatlaser focus to overcome
whatever, whatever's gonna comeup in front of you on the road,
but also to make sure you cankeep those two opposing forces
in check and in balance witheach other.

(44:05):
If you ask a yes or no questionand you get the chariot upright,
yes, but you better work bitch.
Yes.
But get ready to put in theeffort because it's not just
gonna happen for you.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (44:17):
It's not just gonna be handed to you.
You

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (44:19):
Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (44:20):
it.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (44:21):
Uh, it can indicate travel much like
the lover's card can indicate arelationship or something like
that.
The chariot can also indicatetravel depending on your
reading.
I mean, he's literally driving.
He's going somewhere in hischariot, so.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (44:36):
he's on a girls trip.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (44:37):
Yeah.
Hey, should I save up to takethis trip?
You pull the chariot.
Yes.
Get her done.
If you pull the chariot reversedcan indicate blockages or
perhaps distraction.
Distraction from your goal is abig one.
Like maybe you, uh, maybesomething's challenging your
focus or maybe you don't evenrealize that you have been

(45:00):
distracted from your goal.
I can't tell you how many timesI've been working towards
something kind of fall off on itand then realize at some point I
just lost the plot.
You know?
And you just forget that you'reworking towards something, what
it is you're even workingtoward.
It can mean maybe you'refocusing too much on the
objective and not enough on thejourney, uh, which.

(45:22):
Back to last episode kind ofreminded me of Morrow
prosperity.
we told his story about gettinglost in the desert, and he talks
about how as an athlete, he'salways focusing on the
objective, always focusing onhis races.
But when he became lost in thedesert, his objective became
staying alive.
And through that, he drank inand found beauty in his

(45:42):
surroundings.
And that's important for us todo as well because it's not just
the end goal that matters, butit's everything that we take in
accomplish,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (45:52):
Hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (45:52):
on the way So this is a big control
card, and if you pull itreversed, it might mean you are
out of control.
Maybe you've been overindulgingand that's getting in the way of
you meeting your goals.
Or maybe it means you areholding on too tight, you're
being overbearing, you'remicromanaging.
You need to loosen the reins alittle bit.

(46:13):
Like many reverse cards, it canmean, that you need to be doing
inner work.
So whatever you're chariottearing toward, is actually
inside of yourself.
Some kind of internal work thatneeds you to remain driven and
focused to accomplish.
I usually get really excitedwhen I see this card.
Um,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (46:33):
You're a very go go go, type

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (46:35):
a very, I'm very

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (46:36):
very

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (46:37):
type A, I am a control freak.
Listeners, if you have beenlistening to all of our
episodes, you probably know thatabout me by now.
But if you don't, I'm a controlfreak.
I'm Type A self-disciplinefocus.
It usually comes very easy tome.
So when I see the chariot, Iautomatically am like, oh, yeah,
I can do that.
That's fine.

(46:57):
That's in my nature.
However.
When I pull the chariot, I feellike more often than not, I'm
pulling it reversed, which to meis very much like you need to
loosen the reins.
you need to relinquish some ofthis control because if you try
to control too much, you'llactually end up blocking
yourself.
You know, you need to let thoseforces work themselves out

(47:21):
sometimes.
Very rarely can you just bruteforce success.
There are a lot of factors atplay.
You need to understand them andharness them.
If you wanna bring them intobalance, you need to consider
that, divine wisdom that's aboveyour head.
You need to consider the powerthat you're drawing from behind
you, that emperor empress card.
Um, you need to remember yourroots.

(47:42):
Remember where you're comingfrom.
So, yeah, so that's the, that'sthe chariot.
Short and sweet.
It's kind of, kind of, I meanthere are a lot of components,
but it's a pretty simple cardwhen you get down to the brass
tacks and that, I mean,self-discipline and control and
going for it usually simple.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (48:02):
It's the getting out of your own way
part, which is really hard.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (48:06):
You know what song I think he's
listening to on his little roadtrip?
No, I think he's listening toCarry On Wayward Sun by

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (48:15):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (48:17):
see that.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (48:18):
Mm-hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (48:18):
What's that one song That was the
anthem a couple years ago.
I get knocked out, but I get upagain.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (48:25):
Oh, the our coven Anthem.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (48:27):
Anthem.
Yes,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (48:29):
Waba.
Yes,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (48:32):
I think that's just the fool's
anthem

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (48:33):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think that applies likeacross the board to all of the
major arcana, especially some ofthe ones we're gonna be coming
across soon.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (48:44):
the tower,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (48:45):
the Devil Strength perhaps.
So I'll, I'll uh, hand overthese reigns made from the
branches of the Tree ofKnowledge to Sky so she can tell
us about card number eight.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (49:02):
Yes.
And what a beautiful card it is.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (49:05):
this card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (49:06):
Look, that big cat

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (49:07):
Yeah.
We love to see strength and loveto see this beautiful woman
trying to give her pet cat apill.
Um, cause that

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (49:17):
and the cat's

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (49:17):
me.
Yeah.
Little dog is sticking out andshe's like, I'm doing this for
your betterment because you needyour medicine.
I, uh,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (49:26):
Harvey.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (49:28):
but Okay.
But for real, this card, thereis a feminine figure.
She is bent over closing thejaws of a lion and she is
wearing a white dress withgarlands of leaves and flowers
around her head and her waistwith an infinity symbol.

(49:49):
Maple, can you hear her?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (49:51):
No.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (49:52):
I only, I heard like one little

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (49:55):
Can you hear like her?
The jingle of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (49:57):
Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (49:58):
the toy.
Okay, good.
It's very distracting to me.
Sorry,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (50:02):
Gotta wrangle

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (50:03):
an infinity symbol above her head
and a mountainous woodedlandscape in the background.
Generally speaking, that's whatwe got going on.
and we are number eight acrossthe board in numerology.
I saw repeatedly that eight isassociated with dedication and
accomplishment.

(50:24):
Those were sort of the main twoaspects of the number eight.
also I would be remiss withoutpointing out that number eight
looks like an infinity symbolthat is within this card, so
that's obviously a tie in aswell.
Is it really?
'cause it's so symmetrical

pawpaw-host339_1_09-2 (50:41):
Probably, I don't know, it's just always,
always been

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (50:44):
both in appearance and the, and the
way that you can like divide itup.
So this card is.
Very, maybe it's not veryobvious.
It's obviously related to Leobecause there is a lion, the
astrological side, Leo, whichPoppy and I both are, and
therefore it's also related tothe sun and the fire element.

(51:07):
This card also has a lot ofyellow, the sky, there's a lot
of sky, and it is yellow,bright, fun, joyous.
This is a very joyous card tosee.
Yes.
Solar plexus.
It doesn't necessarily read asfire.
Fire.
Like the aggressive.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (51:28):
fire,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (51:30):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (51:30):
light.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (51:30):
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
let's go ahead and break downsome of the symbology in our
card.
first and foremost, the woman inthe lion.
They, I'm so sorry.
I'm so distracted by Maple.
Just like going to town.

(51:51):
She is on our

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (51:52):
said,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_ (51:52):
tower.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (51:53):
of strength.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (51:54):
She's on our cat tower, like kicking
the shit out of a jingly

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (51:58):
Aw.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (51:59):
and I'm just

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (52:00):
She's learning.
she's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (52:02):
Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (52:02):
She's learning,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (52:04):
testing her ability.
S.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (52:06):
she's in such a silly, precarious
position.
She was like on her back aboutto like roll off of the cat
tower, ear done, year done.
editor, cut all that out.
She is Okay.
The woman and the lion, the mainaspects of this card, so the
lion is going to symbolizewildness, raw power and

(52:31):
aggression.
That's sort of the fiery aspectof this card is through the lion
It's a wild animal.
He's king of.
Is he king of the jungle?
There's no

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (52:41):
It's what they tell

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (52:42):
Yeah.
There's jungle

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (52:44):
Maybe there is jungle in Africa.
Is there,

lover-boy-river_1_09-2 (52:47):
Africa's big.
I.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (52:48):
oh, cut that out.
Don't make me sound stupid.
Anyway, so the lion.
He's king of the animal kingdom.
He's at the top of the foodchain.
He's basically emperor of theanimal world.
So he's bringing up, that moremasculine to tie it into the

(53:10):
themes of the other cards thatwe've talked about today.
He's bringing the masculineenergy to this card, whereas the
woman, she's in white, she ispurity, she is grace, she is
gentle, she is symbolizing peacein general, intellect, patience

(53:34):
and rationality.
together with this masculine andfeminine energy, they're sort of
blending and symbolizing innerpower.
Right, so it's largely abouttaming your own will.
cause we have both of theseaspects within us and we sort of

(53:54):
have to work with our innerturmoil of this wherever our
masculine aggression, energypower comes up and not letting
that override us to sort of tamethat and vice versa if we find
that we are being too subdued,too laid back to sort of find

(54:17):
that fire within us and actuallyget things in motion like the,
in the chariot card.
So it's all about a balance.
And also you can see in the cardshe is bent over looking down
and he is bent up looking up.
So that's also like the oppositesort of yin and yang
representative in this card aswell.

(54:39):
Okay, now I am going to readwhat Mr.
Arthur Edward wait has to sayabout this card himself because

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2 (54:49):
Author it, Edward,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_ (54:51):
Arthur Edward, wait, because his
Christian ass has some shit thathe loves to say.
All righty.
I am going to read in thepictorial key of the tarot what
he's got to say about strength.
So strength or fortitude.

(55:11):
So I suppose that was anothername for this card.
He says, A woman over whose headtheir broods, the same symbol of
life, which we have seen in thecard of the magician.
That's true.
The magician also has thatinfinity symbol connecting him
to the divine is closing thejaws of the lion.
The only point in which thisdesign differs from the

(55:34):
conventional presentations isthat her beneficial fortitude
has already subdued the lion,which is being led by a chain of
flowers.
For reasons which satisfymyself, this card has been
interchanged with that ofjustice, which is usually
numbered eight.
Yeah, so eight and 11, dependingon the deck could either be

(55:56):
strength or justice.
As the variation carries nothingwith it, which will signify to
the reader, there is no causefor explanation.
He's basically saying, obviouslythis makes sense why I changed
it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (56:09):
Why are you asking?
Get with it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (56:12):
Duh.
Obviously it makes more sensehere.
Fortitude in one of its mostexalted aspects is connected
with the divine mystery ofunion.
Throwing back to the lover'scard.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (56:23):
Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (56:25):
The virtue, of course, operates in
all planes and hence draws on,all in its symbolism.
It connects also with Ina Invitaand with the strength which
resides in contemplation.
These higher meanings arehowever matters of inference,
and I do not suggest that theyare transparent on the surface

(56:49):
of the card.
They are intimated in aconcealed manner by the chain of
flowers, which signifies amongmany other things the sweet yolk
and the light burden of divinelaw.
When it has been taken into theheart of hearts, the card has
nothing to do withself-confidence.
In the ordinary sense, thoughthis has been suggested, but it

(57:13):
concerns the confidence of thosewhose strength is God, who have
found their refuge in him.
There is one aspect in which thelion signifies the passions, and
she who is called strength, isthe higher nature in its
liberation.
It has walked upon the as andthe basal and has trodden down

(57:35):
the lion and the dragon,traditionally.
Nowadays when we see strength,we actually do think about
self-confidence with this card.
However, Mr.
Arthur said, no, this is aboutGod.
So obviously the original intentwith this card was likely that

(57:56):
of a religious nature as we'veseen, uh, be pure to fight,
temptation of sin, et cetera.
That's sort of what he's sayinghere.
So the lion is sort of thatmasculine temptation of sin and
pleasure.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (58:10):
nature.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (58:11):
Correct?
but I think that we can in factuse this card as a symbol for
self-confidence contrary toArthur Waite's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (58:22):
It can be two things.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (58:24):
back to symbology of the card.
The infinity symbol that we havediscussed earlier.
Uh, again, similar to themagician, connection to
divinity, unlimited reserves ofpeace, intellect, patience and
rationality.
So pulling towards that higherpower and all of those lovely

(58:45):
feminine aspects.
for this woman, we have themountains.
There's a lot of cards withmountains in the background.
This mountain, unlike theLover's card, is not a
particularly large mountain, orperhaps it is, but it's very far
away.
so we're in a lush green fieldwith a forest and a mountain in
the background, and that's gonnagive us a sense of security and

(59:08):
safety.
So it's open, but there's someborders for protection.
So this lion feels comfortablewith this woman.
Because of her ORIC presence andtheir trust together, but also
based on where they are as well,if that makes sense.
and the last thing I want topoint out on this card is the

(59:30):
leaves.
there is a certain maturity thatcomes with growth, and growth is
required in order to learn howto be strong in every sense of
the word.
No one is automatically bornstrong.
Strength is forged throughexperience and wisdom.

(59:50):
So the presence of the leavesand flowers, to me signifies
that this woman has put in thework to earn the power of
patience and calm in order toget this line to trust
entertainment.
So that is what the leavessignify to me.
upright, obviously strengthmeans strength, but what does,
you know, like, yeah, butspecifically upright.

(01:00:15):
It could mean overcomingobstacles, facing your fears,
approaching with peace andgentleness.
being guided to rely onrationality and having the
maturity to use wisdom to handlea situation and not raw emotion.
So finding the strength withinyourself to sort of gather

(01:00:38):
yourself and, and assess thesituation before you act without
reason.
And reversed.
Again, like we've said before,it could be assigned to point
that energy inward to rememberto give yourself strength.
Remember that you have strength,you have wisdom to pull from, to

(01:00:58):
find peace and rationalitywithin yourself.
or it could mean that you areout of whack.
Maybe you need to rebalanceyourself.
Uh, you're maybe you're havingsome self-confidence issues, and
that's sort of pointing that toyour awareness.
or maybe it could mean that youare letting your emotions
override your intellectdestructively, so maybe your

(01:01:22):
lion is not particularly tamed.
Or if the reading is aboutsomeone else, their lion is not
particularly tamed, for example.
It just depends on what thereading is about and what the
question is.
and I did want to talk about myother deck, my Wildwood deck
that I use for the Morgan.

(01:01:43):
Uh, but real quick, you didremind me Poppy about Yes.
No, I would say upright issolid.
Yes.
Reversed, I would say is a softNo.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (01:01:53):
I would take it as a hard no
personally, but that's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:01:56):
I would

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:01:57):
think so?

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (01:01:57):
or like a, not yet.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:01:58):
Yeah,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:01:59):
Yeah.
I would, it, it's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (01:02:01):
I would take it as a, you are not
ready.
Don't try.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:02:05):
Yeah.
It's, I I would say no, but it'snot like a firm.
Absolutely not.
They're like, no,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:02:11):
Not right now.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:02:12):
Yeah.
And I would say upright is ayes, but again, it's not really
like a super, it's a firm.
Yes.
But it's not like, yes, yes,yes, yes.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:02:20):
Yes.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (01:02:21):
Correct.
Yeah.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (01:02:23):
a yes, but

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:02:25):
Okay.
So in the Wildwood Tarot, it isnumber 11 and it is symbolized
by the Woodward card.
So instead of a gentle femininewoman, we have a, a bit of a
rugged looking man.
He's got like a red beard andwhat looks like to be a lynx

(01:02:48):
pelt on his head, he's holding abloody spear.
Um, he's also maybe got like atasty little bev in his hand is
like holding like a little cup.
He's got like pelts and furs on.
I know.
And he's got a little Yeah, thatis a Lynx.
A Lynx is sitting, a live one issitting next to him

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:03:08):
But the dopest

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:03:09):
and he's

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:03:10):
seen,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (01:03:11):
I know.
And he's like looking out.
He's looking very, he's veryposed up.
To be ready.
And there's also a yeah, he'sstands up and there's also an
eagle flying in the sky.
So I'm not gonna get into likethe deep symbology and
everything with this card.
Um, but there is just one littleparagraph in the book for the

(01:03:33):
Wildwood tarot deck that I feellike will tie everything up
together to describe everything.
The classical tarot image ofstrength is a beautiful, mature
woman controlling or holding alion.
The inherent balance of thisimage shows the calm beauty of
patience and love, counteringthe unbridled emotions of anger

(01:03:54):
and hate.
The Woodward and ancientguardian of the Wildwood
symbolizes the inner power thatcomes from facing fear and
understanding the nature ofdarkness, the inner strength
that comes from this awarenessgives the individual the
emotional body language.
Yes.
The emotional body language andthe humility that says, I am not

(01:04:15):
a victim.
Treat me with respect.
Do not mistake my passivity forweakness.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:04:21):
Hmm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:04:22):
Love.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:04:23):
Shh, what I got for you for strength.
That's where we are on thefool's journey.
Sort of

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:04:28):
We are in a duality

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:04:30):
Yeah.
All three of these cards areheavy duality,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:04:33):
Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025 (01:04:34):
Mm-hmm.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (01:04:35):
Harmony in Union.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:04:37):
Yeah.
That masculine, feminine,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (01:04:39):
Mm-hmm.
you gotta have both of'em.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:04:42):
yeah.
Once you learn the lover'slesson, it's where I think that
the duality sticks with you

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:04:47):
Then it puts you to several tests.
It's like, did you get it?
Do you actually understand it?
Or are

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:04:53):
Yeah.
Because I mean, we've gottemperance coming up, which is
balance.
We've got justice coming up,we've got balance again.
So obviously we're always gonnabe trying to maintain balance
along the way from the loversmoving forward.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:05:09):
Once you eat that fruit and you learn
about all these new things, youhave to balance them forever,
unfortunately.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:05:16):
And the devil, the lover's counter
card.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:05:18):
Yeah.
Gorgeous.
I feel stronger already.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:05:22):
Jack built, ready?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (01:05:25):
I start beating the both of

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:05:26):
No.
Why are you always threatening?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:05:30):
It's 'cause I'm so strong.
It's because I'm a youngersibling.
That's what we

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:05:34):
Yeah.
I'm an older sibling, which iswhy I identify so strongly with
the chariot.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (01:05:40):
Mm-hmm.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:05:42):
And I'm an only child, so we've,
we've got all of the basescovered

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:05:45):
Yeah.
It's a different kind ofstrength to be an only child.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:05:50):
Oh, okay.
Well, anything else?
Any final thoughts?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21 (01:05:56):
There's one passage from a book I've
been reading when Sky wastalking about the lion and the
animalistic and human natures,and I can't quite remember.
But it was very, very topicaland apropos to it,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1037 (01:06:12):
It would be nice if

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:06:13):
it.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:06:14):
know it now.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:06:15):
I'll be right back.
Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:06:18):
Also on the Woodward card, this
doesn't have to stay in, buthe's got like a little, um.
Like a toy.
You see that Like he's got likea little, um,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:06:27):
foot or something?

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:06:28):
no, it's a anthropomorphic figure,
like a wolf human person orsomething.
But it's just like his little,his little key chain, his little
support system.
I know it's supposed to be likedeep and symbolic, but I'm like,
that's his, that's his toy.
that's

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:06:45):
toy.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:06:46):
yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025_ (01:06:47):
I got the book listeners.
Don't worry.
I got the book co-host.
Don't worry.
I got the book.
It's the Gnostic Gospel of St.
Thomas Meditations on themystical teachings, and it's
verse seven.
Jesus said, blessed is the lion,which becomes man when consumed

(01:07:07):
by man.
And cursed is the man whom thelion consumes, and the lion
becomes man.
Which this passage is also aboutlike duality and your
animalistic nature andovercoming that to become like
what's how, how you say, notletting your egoic base
instincts control you.

(01:07:29):
So I was just reminded of that alot when Sky was talking about
the lion and the lady.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (01:07:35):
fleshing that out.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:07:37):
Yeah.
I just couldn't remember exactlyhow it was phrased and I didn't
wanna fuck it up, so I didn'twanna read it off the, I didn't
wanna remember it off the dome.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:07:46):
Yeah.
Fairly simple, but also likedeeply profound.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:07:50):
yeah.
yeah.
Something to chew on.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:07:53):
Love is simple.
Will is simple.
Strength is simple.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:07:57):
But They take work.
All of them

lion-tamer_1_09-21-202 (01:08:00):
There's, they're simple in concept, but
they're actually verycomplicated.
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21- (01:08:06):
There's a lot that goes

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:08:07):
The idea is simple.
The execution is difficult.

lion-tamer_1_09-2 (01:08:12):
Multifaceted, different for everyone.
Not the same across the board.
You have to find your expressionof it, and it's not, Yeah.
it's not always the, there's nota correct way

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:08:23):
Yes.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:08:23):
all the time, but

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (01:08:25):
That's life baby.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:08:26):
Yeah,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:08:27):
You forge your own path with the
information you have.
It's our fool's journey on thisbitch of an earth

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:08:33):
that we love.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:08:35):
that we love so much and we're so
grateful.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:08:37):
Yeah, on our Fool's journey, I think
that all three of us kind ofusually generally try to pick
the card that's most applicableto each host, uh, especially at
the time.
So I feel like today, much likeRiver was saying, the lovers
very apt for where they're at,the lessons that they need to
learn right now, chariot, thereverse chariot more

(01:08:58):
specifically, poppy constantlyneeds to overcome that hurdle,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:09:03):
Um,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:09:03):
and I am, I feel like constantly
chronically in a state ofneeding to remember to balance
my inner strength andself-confidence because I have
really deeply bad impostersyndrome and am worried that
everyone hates me all the time.
That's just sort of my, my, myissue.
Even today at finishing oursegment and wrapping up this

(01:09:23):
episode, I'm like, did a badjob.
Fucking

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:09:26):
No you didn't.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_1 (01:09:27):
I feel like that just comes with
being the age that the three ofus are at.
Like we're all right around 30,and that's when the imposter
syndrome is like, I'm not a realadult.
I'm not doing as well

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:09:39):
Yeah.
I'm 30 years old, but I don'tunderstand APRs still, and I
never will stop asking me to

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10371 (01:09:47):
I literally was thinking about how
y'all did such a good job andsounded so eloquent, and I felt

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:09:51):
thank you.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-20 (01:09:52):
stumbling over myself the

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:09:53):
feel like I was just kind of like,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:09:55):
felt like I did a bad job too.
Yeah.
I spent like 30 minutes on mynotes and I, looking back,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:10:01):
Mm.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-202 (01:10:01):
much more that I could have said.
But

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:10:02):
If I can be so real.
I started my notes this morning.
I woke up early.
I started them literally thismorning.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (01:10:11):
it

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:10:12):
You did such a good job.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:10:13):
Thank you.
It's also the, the consequenceof we are putting this online,
this isn't just a conversationbetween us that will have no
evidence left over when it'sdone.
Like the evidence lives forever,which is a big fear for me
whenever we are recording andI'm like, I don't wanna sound
stupid Forever.

(01:10:33):
and people get to hear me soundstupid forever.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (01:10:37):
in our journey, right?

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:10:39):
Hey, we're doing our best.
And that's what's important.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:10:43):
Uh, five years down the line, we'll
probably have deeper, maybe morenuanced understanding of all of
these cards.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:10:51):
God, I hope so.
I'm hoping to have a morenuanced understanding of most
things when I'm older.
get to that.
Yeah.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:11:00):
and yeah,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:11:01):
Yeah.
Yep.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:11:03):
when I go back and listen to the
episode, I'm like, I was noteven that bad.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:11:07):
No.
You're like, that was actuallypretty good.
Pop off.
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:11:12):
And that's the same with like
everything in life where you'relooking back and you're like,
oh,

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:11:17):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025_ (01:11:18):
as bad as I

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:11:19):
That wasn't that bad.
I've just never done it before.
I just haven't practiced itseveral times and perfected it
several

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:11:28):
And if it was that bad, at least you
learned something from

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2 (01:11:31):
Yeah.

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:11:32):
and you're better for it.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:11:34):
is a lesson

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:11:35):
Yeah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-2025 (01:11:36):
I,

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-20 (01:11:36):
Well, if you would like to tell us
what these cards mean to you,you can do that by emailing us
at Death Coven [e-mail].
Or you can find us on Instagram,like follow.
Uh, what else do you do onInstagram?
DM us comment at death covenpod.
And with that, buy the power ofthree.

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_103 (01:11:59):
And so it is

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-202 (01:12:01):
And so it is

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:12:02):
And so it is, oh,

lion-tamer_1_09-21-2025_10 (01:12:06):
rah.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21-20 (01:12:06):
Kiss your lovers today if you've got
'em.
Give a big wet kiss for me

pawpaw-host339_1_09-21-2025 (01:12:12):
car really fast.

lover-boy-river_1_09-21- (01:12:13):
really fast,