Exploring Age-related Fertility Decline and Delayed Childbearing

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Speaker 2 (00:01):
Life by Dr Pat Leading innovation in fertility
excellence Deep dive intoreproduction with Life by Dr Pat
.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Age-related fertility decline and delayed
childbearing.
Welcome back everybody foranother deep dive.
This time we're going all theway to Thailand to uncover some
surprising truths aboutfertility.
Ever wonder how much peopleactually know about what affects
their ability to have kids?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's a great question .

Speaker 1 (00:28):
You might be surprised.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, and what's so fascinating is that we often
think about fertility as purelybiological.
But you know, this researchreally highlights how
intertwined it is with socialperceptions, cultural beliefs
and even government policies.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Exactly Today, we're going to be looking at three
sources A 2018 study onfertility knowledge in Bangkok,
a chapter from a 2019 book aboutThailand's experience with
assisted reproductive technology.
And a YouTube video from aleading Thai fertility clinic.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
And by examining Thailand's specific context, we
can actually uncover broadertrends and challenges that are
relevant to people trying toconceive all over the world.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Absolutely Okay, let's dive in.
This 2018 study had some prettyshocking stats about age and
fertility.
Are you ready for this?
Only 13% of the participantscorrectly identified the age
when female fertility starts todecline.
Wow, that's between 30 and 34.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
And even fewer participants knew that the
decline for men begins around 40to 44.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
So this isn't just about societal pressures or
lifestyle choices.
It's really about thefundamental biology of
reproduction.
With age, women experience adecrease in both the quality and
quantity of their eggs.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
While men may see changes in sperm health.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
So, even if someone isn't planning to have kids
right now, why is this lack ofawareness such a big deal?
What are the implications forour listeners?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Well understanding this biological timeline is
absolutely key for makinginformed decisions later on.
Right, Imagine this.
The study found that womenoften perceive their fertility
declining five years later thanit actually does.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
This gap between perception and reality can lead
to some really difficultsituations down the line.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Wow, that's a real wake-up call.
I have to admit, even I findmyself sometimes buying into the
idea that with modern sciencewe can just fix any age-related
issues Like is that a real thing?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's a very common misconception and while
advancements in fertilitytreatments like IVF have been
remarkable, they can'tcompletely reverse the effects
of aging on eggs and sperm.
That's why accurate informationand realistic expectations are
so important.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Absolutely so.
We've got age as a major factor.
The 2018 study also looked atlifestyle choices and no big
surprise most participants knewthat smoking, alcohol and STIs
can impact fertility.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right, those are all very well-established risk
factors.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
And public health campaigns have really done a
good job raising awareness.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
But here's where it gets interesting.
Only half of the participantsknew that obesity negatively
impacts fertility.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's a significant knowledge gap.
It makes you wonder are we as asociety prioritizing certain
health risks over others?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Perhaps public health messaging around obesity and
fertility hasn't been as strong.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
And that's what I love about these deep dives.
You know, we uncover thesesubtle trends that impact our
health and well-being.
So let's unpack this further.
How does obesity actuallyaffect fertility on a biological
level?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
So obesity can disrupt hormone balance, leading
to irregular ovulation in women.
It can also increaseinflammation in the body, which
can interfere with both egg andsperm health.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
This is all starting to paint a more complex picture
of fertility than I think manypeople realize.
It's not just about finding apartner and deciding you're
ready.
There are all these otherfactors at play.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Exactly, and it's not about placing blame or making
people feel guilty.
It's about empowering them withknowledge so they can make
informed decisions.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Absolutely OK.
So we've got age and lifestyle,but there's another major trend
that's changing the fertilitylandscape Delayed childbearing.
Our 2019 chapter highlightsthis as a global phenomenon, and
Thailand is no exception.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, the statistics are quite striking.
In Thailand, the percentage offirst-time mothers over 35 has
doubled since 1998.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Wow, doubled.
That's a huge jump.
What kind of ripple effectsdoes this trend have, both for
individuals and society as awhole?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, on an individual level, delaying
childbearing can mean lowernatural conception rates and a
higher likelihood of needingfertility treatments.
Right, this isn't to say thathaving children later is
impossible or wrong.
It's just about understandingthe potential biological
challenges.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
And what about the broader societal impacts?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Well-delayed childbearing contributes to
aging populations, which can puta strain on social safety nets
and have significant economicimplications.
Right, but the 2019 chaptermakes a really important point
here.
Instead of judging women forsleepwalking into infertility,
we need to understand thepressures they face.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Absolutely.
There's a powerful quote fromthe chapter that really stuck
with me.
It said we should understandthe pressures they face.
It's a reminder that these arecomplex decisions influenced by
a lot more than just individualchoice.
So why are people waitinglonger to have children?
The 2019 chapter mentions astudy called the VFAS, which
surveyed women over 35 seekingfertility treatment in Thailand.

(05:23):
What were some of theirfindings?

Speaker 2 (05:25):
So the top reasons for delaying childbearing were
financial security, not having apartner, and career goals.
These are all veryunderstandable and relatable
concerns reflecting therealities of modern life.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Right.
People are pursuing highereducation, navigating uncertain
job markets and redefininggender roles.
It makes sense that thesefactors would influence when
they feel ready to start afamily.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Exactly, and these trends are playing out globally,
not just in Thailand.
The VFAS study also revealedthat the participants' ideal age
for a first child was 28.7years.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Significantly earlier than when they actually sought
treatment.
That gap between aspirationsand reality is something worth
thinking about.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
It suggests that, while people may have a vision
for when they'd like to start afamily, that vision often
clashes with the practicalitiesof their lives.
So, knowing this, what kind ofsupport would actually encourage
people to have children earlier, closer to their ideal age?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
The VFES study asked participants that very question
and the top answers wereactually pretty clear Paid
paternity leave, longer paidmaternity leave and access to
high-quality, affordable childcare.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Those are some pretty tangible needs.
It speaks to the idea thatpeople need practical support to
balance the demands ofparenthood with their financial
and career aspirations.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Exactly.
It underscores the need forsupportive social policies that
make it easier for people tostart families when they feel
ready both emotionally andpractically.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now let's shift gears a bit and talk about assisted
reproductive technology, or ART.
The VFAS study also exploredperceptions of different
fertility treatments.
What did they find?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
They found there's a hierarchy of acceptability when
it comes to different ARTtreatments.
Iui and IVFICSI, which use thecouple's own gametes, were seen
as the most acceptable.
Social egg freezing, whichallows women to preserve their
fertility, was moderatelyacceptable.
But here's where it getsinteresting.
Donor gametes, sperm or eggswere viewed less favorably, even
ranking lower than adoption.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Now that is interesting.
Why do you think there's such adifference in perception
between those treatments?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
It likely reflects a complex interplay of factors.
There might be cultural orreligious beliefs about lineage
and biological kinship thatinfluence these perceptions.
There could also be a lack ofknowledge about donor conception
and the long-term well-being ofchildren conceived this way.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's a reminder that there's often a gap between the
science of fertility and thesocial perceptions surrounding
it.
Speaking of social perceptions,our 2019 chapter dives into the
Thai art landscape.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
It describes a booming industry, but also
highlights some key issues RightOne of the most important is
that Thailand's art industry,while rapidly growing, is
heavily concentrated in privateclinics.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
This raises concerns about accessibility and equity,
suggesting that access to thesepotentially life-changing
treatments may be limited tothose who can afford them.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
That's a big concern.
It creates a system wherefertility care becomes a
privilege, not a right.
And here's another intriguingfact the number of art cycles
per million people is actuallymuch lower in Thailand than in
Canada.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Even though Canada has no public health coverage
for art.
What do you make of that?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well, it likely reflects a complex interplay of
factors, including cost,cultural influences and possibly
even a degree of underreportingof art cycles.
It's a reminder that rawnumbers don't always tell the
full story of who is accessingtreatment and why.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
You mentioned underreporting.
That brings us to anothersurprising finding about
fertility tourism.
Despite Thailand's reputationas a hub for this industry,
officially reported foreign artcycles are surprisingly low.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's a bit of a paradox.
This discrepancy hints at thepossibility of significant
underreporting, potentiallydriven by the legal and ethical
complexity surrounding certainaspects of art like surrogacy.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Which brings us to the 2015 Protection for Children
Born from Art Act, a piece oflegislation that has had a
profound impact on Thailand'sart landscape.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
This act was enacted in response to a series of
high-profile surrogacy scandalsthat damaged Thailand's
reputation.
The goal was to protectvulnerable parties, such as
surrogate mothers and childrenborn through RT, and to curb
exploitation within the industry.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
So what exactly did the act do?
What were the key changes thatit implemented?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
So it banned commercial surrogacy and gamete
donation for foreigners.
It also requires extensivedocumentation for all couples
seeking RT, regardless of theirnationality.
The intention was to create amore ethical and regulated
system.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
On the surface that seems.
That seems reasonable.
But were there any unintendedconsequences of these
prohibitions?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Unfortunately.
Yes, while the act had nobleintentions, it also pushed some
practices underground,potentially making them even
riskier for surrogates, intendedparents and the children
involved.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
It's that classic case of trying to solve a
problem with regulations butthen creating new problems in
the process.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Exactly, and by limiting access for some local
couples, the act may haveunintentionally created further
inequities in access tofertility care.
It's a complex issue with noeasy answers.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
It really highlights how challenging it can be to
regulate something as personaland complex as reproductive
technology.
There are so many ethical andsocial considerations to
navigate.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Absolutely, and it's a reminder that there are often
tradeoffs involved in any policydecision.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Now I want to circle back to something we touched on
earlier the influence ofcultural beliefs on fertility.
Our 2019 chapter reveals thatin Thailand, these beliefs go
far beyond the walls of theclinic.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
It's fascinating how these traditional beliefs
intersect with modern medicine.
For example, the chapterdescribes belief that certain
foods, like blue-shelled duckeggs, can boost fertility, as
well as the use of unprovensupplements and rituals at
fertility shrines.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
It's a reminder that people's understanding of their
bodies and their fertility isshaped by a multitude of factors
, not just scientific knowledge.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Exactly, and it underscores the importance of
understanding the broadercontext in which people make
decisions about theirreproductive health.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
There's one detail I found particularly striking the
belief that prolongedcontraceptive use causes
infertility.
This belief is surprisinglyprevalent, even though research
has debunked it.
What do you think this tells usabout how people form beliefs
about their bodies?

Speaker 2 (11:41):
It highlights the critical need for us to really
evaluate information, especiallywhen it comes to our health.
We need to be discerning aboutthe sources we trust and seek
out credible, evidence-basedinformation.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's so easy to get caught up in misinformation,
especially when it comes tosomething as personal and
emotionally charged as fertility.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Absolutely, and that's why these conversations
are so important.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
We've covered a lot of ground already.
Before we move on to the lastpart of our deep dive, I want to
introduce our final source, aYouTube video from a leading
Thai fertility doctor, drPatsama Vichensartvichai, who
discusses her clinic's 2024 IVFsuccess rates.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
This video offers a really unique glimpse into how
RT is being marketed andperceived in Thailand, directly
from someone on the front linesof fertility care.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
It's a perspective we don't always get to hear, and
I'm curious to see what DrVichensar Pichai has to say.
We'll be back after a shortbreak to delve into this final
source.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, it's interesting to consider how
doctors balance, you know,promoting their clinic's success
while also managing patientexpectations.
Fertility treatment can be suchan emotional journey.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
It's a delicate balance.
Let's discuss that after wewatch Dr Vichensart-Fichai's
video.
Okay, so we just finishedwatching Dr Vichensart-Fichai's.
Youtube video and I have to sayher approach was really
refreshing.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I agree.
And while she highlights herclinic's impressive success
rates, she doesn't shy away fromemphasizing that age still
plays a significant role in IVFoutcomes.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, and I appreciated that she pointed out
that many couples conceive ontheir first embryo transfer.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's a good reminder that IVF isn't always a long
drawn out process and sometimessuccess can can happen quickly.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
That's a good point.
Yeah, I also noticed shespecifically mentioned excluding
cases involving donor gametesfrom her clinic's reported
success rates.
That stood out to me.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Why do you think she made that distinction?
It seems like an importantdetail to highlight.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
It could be for transparency.
You know success rates can varywhen using donor gametes
compared to using a couple's owneggs and sperm, so it's
important to give patients arealistic picture of their
chances that makes sense.
It could also be a nod to thosecultural sensitivities
surrounding donor conceptionthat we talked about earlier.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Absolutely yeah.
It just goes to show howcultural context can influence
how clinics choose to presenttheir services.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
This video also gives us a glimpse into the evolution
of fertility care in Thailand.
This video also gives us aglimpse into the evolution of
fertility care in Thailand,especially in the private sector
.
You know, dr VichinSarkvichai's clinic emphasizes
personalized care andcutting-edge technology.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
It speaks to a global trend towards more
boutique-style fertility clinicsthat cater to patients who are
looking for a more personalizedexperience.
They want their emotional andpsychological needs to be
addressed, not just the medicalaspects of treatment.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
It's fascinating to see how the industry is adapting
to meet those needs, but itdoes make you wonder.
As these high-end clinicsbecome more common, will
fertility care become even morestratified?
Will there be a divide betweenthose who can afford these?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
premium services and those who can't.
That's a really criticalquestion to consider.
It ties into this broadersocietal issue of income
inequality and its potentialimpact on access to health care,
including specialized serviceslike RT.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
It's a reminder that advancements in technology are
incredible and offer so muchhope, but we can't ignore the
social and economic factors thatinfluence who benefits from
those advancements.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well said.
Now, before we wrap things up,I want to bring us back to the
2015 Thai RT Act and its ongoingimpact on the industry.
This legislation was meant toaddress ethical concerns and
protect vulnerable partiesconcerns and protect vulnerable
parties.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
You're right, it aimed to kind of clean up
Thailand's RT industry, whichhad faced criticism for a more
commercialized approach tosurrogacy, especially for
foreign couples.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
But it wasn't without its controversies.
Critics argued that the actwent too far, driving some
practices underground and makingthem less safe.
The act's impact on altruisticsurrogacy is particularly
interesting.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
For our listeners who might not be familiar, can you
explain what altruisticsurrogacy is?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Sure, altruistic surrogacy is when a woman
carries a pregnancy for anothercouple without receiving any
financial compensation beyondcovering her medical expenses
and other reasonable costs.
So it's different fromcommercial surrogacy, where the
surrogate is paid a fee for herservices.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So how did the 2015 act change things for people who
wanted to pursue altruisticsurrogacy in Thailand?

Speaker 2 (16:15):
It essentially made altruistic surrogacy the only
legal form of surrogacy in thecountry, and it's only available
to married heterosexual coupleswho meet very, very specific
criteria.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
So no more commercial surrogacy.
Even for Thai couples, that's abig shift.
What were the outcomes of thatdecision?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Well, one outcome was that the number of surrogacy
arrangements in Thailandplummeted.
The strict regulations andbureaucratic hurdles made it
much more difficult for couplesto find willing surrogates.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
But it didn't eliminate the demand right.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Exactly.
Evidence suggests thatcommercial surrogacy didn't
disappear, it just movedunderground.
It now operates outside theoversight of legal and ethical
frameworks, which is concerning.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
It seems like that could make things even riskier
for everyone involved thesurrogate, the intended parents
and especially the child.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
That's the fear when these practices are driven
underground.
It's much harder to ensure thateveryone's rights and
well-being are protected.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
It's a reminder that sometimes well-intentioned laws
can have unintended negativeconsequences.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's a classic example of that, and it
underscores the need for ongoingevaluation and potential
revisions of these kinds ofpolicies.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Now I want to go back to the VFAS study.
It also looked at people'sattitudes towards different
types of RT treatments.
What did they learn about howThai women perceive these
options?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
The study found a clear hierarchy of acceptability
.
Iui and IVFICSI, which involveusing the couple's own gametes,
were considered the mostacceptable.
Social egg freezing hadmoderate acceptance, but donor
gametes, either sperm or eggs,were the least acceptable, even
less so than adoption.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
That's fascinating.
It seems like there's a clearpreference for treatments that
maintain a biological connectionbetween the parents and the
child.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right.
It aligns with that culturalemphasis on biological
parenthood that we discussedearlier.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
But why do you think donor gametes are viewed less
favorably, even even compared toadoption, which doesn't involve
any biological connection?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
It likely stems from a complex combination of
cultural and religious beliefsabout lineage and kinship.
There might also be a lack ofunderstanding about donor
conception and how it works.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
It seems like there's a need for more open dialogue
and education about donorconception so people can make
informed choices based onaccurate information, not just
preconceived notions.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I absolutely agree.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
We've covered so much ground today, from the
biological basics of fertilityto the cultural and social
factors that shape people'schoices, it's clear that
fertility isn't just a personaljourney.
It's a complex interplay ofindividual decisions, societal
expectations and global trends.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's a great way to put it.
We've explored how age,lifestyle choices, delayed
childbearing and access tohealth care all intersect to
create this intricate tapestryof fertility experiences.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Before we wrap up our deep dive, I want to take a
moment to highlight the keytakeaways for our listeners.
What are the most importantthings you hope people will
remember from our conversation?

Speaker 2 (19:23):
First and foremost, I'd encourage everyone to have
open and honest conversationsabout fertility with their
partners, friends and familymembers.
Let's break down the taboos andnormalize these discussions.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
It's so true.
Keeping these things bottled uponly creates more anxiety and
shame.
Sharing our experiences andquestions with others can be
incredibly liberating.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Sharing can also help us realize that we're not alone
in our struggles oruncertainties.
It builds community and support.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Absolutely so.
Open communication is key.
What else can our listener doto be proactive about their
reproductive health?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Be proactive about seeking information and
understanding the factors thatcan impact fertility, both
biological and lifestyle related.
Knowledge is empowering.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
And don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions.
You have a right to be informedand to make decisions that are
right for you.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
I couldn't agree more .
Another important piece is tothink about the kind of support
system you'll need if you'reconsidering starting a family.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Right.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
This includes both practical support, like child
care and parental leave, andemotional support from your
partner, family and friends.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
It takes a village, as they say, and building that
village starts with recognizingwhat you need and asking for
help when you need it Exactly.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
And finally, remember that cultural narratives and
societal expectations can bereally powerful forces.
Be critical of the messages youreceive about fertility and
family building.
Challenge those that feellimiting or judgmental.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
It's about creating space for a more diverse and
inclusive understanding of whatit means to build a family.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yes, let's move away from the idea of a single right
way to do things and embrace themany different paths to
parenthood.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
I love that We've talked about biological clock,
but there's also this societalclock that can feel even more
pressing, the pressure to hitcertain milestones by certain
ages.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, it's a powerful force, isn't it?
But what if we question thoseassumptions?
What if we challenge the notionthat there's a right time to
have kids?
What if we celebrated a moreflexible and diverse approach to
family building?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
That's such a powerful shift in perspective.
It's about giving ourselvespermission to define our own
timelines based on ourindividual values and
circumstances.
Values and circumstances.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Exactly.
It's about recognizing thatthere are many paths to
parenthood and that each journeyis unique and valid.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well said and on that note, I think we've reached the
end of our deep dive.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's been a pleasure exploring these complex and
fascinating topics with you.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
A huge thank you to our expert for sharing your
incredible insights.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
And to our listener thank you for joining us on this
journey.
We hope this deep dive hassparked some new ideas and
inspired you to think criticallyabout fertility, family
building and the choices thatlie ahead.
Keep asking questions, keepdiving deep and keep challenging
the status quo.
Until next time.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
We're back for the final part of our deep dive into
fertility factors andperceptions.
I have to say, this explorationof Thailand's experiences has
really opened my eyes to thecomplexities of this topic.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's been a fascinating journey, hasn't it?
We've gone from the biologicalfoundations of fertility to the
social and cultural influencesthat shape people's choices and
experiences.
What has stood out to you themost?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Honestly, I'm struck by how much fertility is not
just about biology.
You know we often hear aboutthe biological clock, but what
we've uncovered here is thatthere's a whole symphony of
factors at play Societalpressures, economic realities,
cultural beliefs, evengovernment policies.
All these things kind of weavetogether to influence when and
how people approach starting afamily.

(23:04):
I completely agree.
We can't look at fertility inisolation.
You know it's deeplyintertwined with the fabric of
our lives, influenced by forcesthat extend far beyond our
individual bodies.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
It's like we've zoomed out to see the entire
ecosystem, not just theindividual organism.
Thinking about it this wayhelps us understand why there's
no one size fits all answer whenit comes to fertility.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
That's a great analogy and it emphasizes why
it's so important to approachthis topic with empathy and
understanding, recognizing thatthat everyone's journey is
unique.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
So let's bring this back to our listener.
What can they do with thisnewfound knowledge, regardless
of where they are in their ownfertility journey?

Speaker 2 (23:45):
First and foremost, I'd encourage everyone to have
open and honest conversationsabout fertility with their
partners, friends and familymembers.
Let's break down the taboos andnormalize these discussions.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's so true.
Keeping these things bottled uponly creates more anxiety and
shame.
Sharing our experiences andquestions with others can be
incredibly liberating.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Sharing can also help us realize that we're not alone
in our struggles oruncertainties.
It builds community and support.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Absolutely so.
Open communication is key.
What else can our listener doto be proactive about their
reproductive health?
What else can our listener doto be proactive about their
reproductive health?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Be proactive about seeking information and
understanding the factors thatcan impact fertility, both
biological and lifestyle related.
Knowledge is empowering.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
And don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions.
You have a right to be informedand to make decisions that are
right for you.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
I couldn't agree more .
Another important piece is tothink about the kind of support
system you'll need if you'reconsidering starting a family.
This includes both practicalsupport, like child care and
parental leave, and emotionalsupport from your partner,
family and friends.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
It takes a village, as they say, and building that
village starts with recognizingwhat you need and asking for
help when you need it.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Exactly.
And finally, remember thatcultural narratives and societal
expectations can be reallypowerful forces.
Be critical of the messages youreceive about fertility and
family building.
Challenge those that feellimiting or judgmental.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's about creating space for a more diverse and
inclusive understanding of whatit means to build a family.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yes, let's move away from the idea of a single right
way to do things and embrace themany different paths to
parenthood.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I love that We've talked about the biological
clock, but there's also thissocietal clock that can feel
even more pressing, the pressureto hit certain milestones by
certain ages.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
It's a powerful force , isn't it?
But what if we question thoseassumptions?
What if we challenge the notionthat there's a right time to
have kids?
What if we celebrated a moreflexible and diverse approach to
family building?

Speaker 1 (25:59):
That's such a powerful shift in perspective.
It's about giving ourselvespermission to define our own
timelines, based on ourindividual values and
circumstances.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Exactly.
It's about recognizing thatthere are many paths to
parenthood and that each journeyis unique and valid.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well said and on that note, I think we've reached the
end of our deep dive.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
It's been a pleasure exploring these complex and
fascinating topics with you.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
A huge thank you to our expert for sharing your
incredible insights.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
And to our listener thank you for joining us on this
journey.
We hope this deep dive hassparked some new ideas and
inspired you to think criticallyabout fertility, family
building and the choices thatlie ahead.
Keep asking questions, keepdiving deep and keep challenging
the status quo.
Life by Dr Pat.
Leading innovation in fertilityexcellence.