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January 28, 2025 20 mins

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This episode explores the emotional complexities of IVF and the often-unspoken challenges couples face during their journey through infertility. We discuss the importance of support systems, communication, and self-care strategies to navigate the emotional toll and maintain connections amidst the process.

• Exploring the emotional burdens associated with IVF 
• Discussing the impact of failed cycles on mental health 
• Highlighting the experiences of men in the infertility journey 
• The importance of seeking support and connection 
• Practical coping strategies, including mindfulness and therapy 
• The significance of nurturing relationships during treatment 
• Dr. Pat’s insights on finding joy and lightness amidst challenges 
• Addressing societal stigma and the importance of open discussions 

Find the tools you need to navigate your own journey.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life by Dr Pat.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Leading innovation in fertility excellence.
Deep dive into reproductionwith Life by Dr Pat.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Overcome the emotional burden of infertility
treatment.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
All right, let's jump into this deep dive.
Today we're talking about IVF,okay, specifically all the stuff
that nobody really wants totalk about, the emotional side
of it.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Right, it can be kind of a taboo topic.
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
So much focuses on the science and the success
rates, but what about the peoplegoing through it?
What about their experiences?

Speaker 1 (00:46):
You've been doing some research on IVF lately.
Right, I have, yeah, thescience and the success rates,
but what about the people goingthrough it?
What?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
about their experiences.
You've been doing some researchon IVF lately.
Right, I have, yeah, and youknow.
It's clear that it's not justabout the medical procedures,
definitely not.
It's a whole journey,emotionally speaking, especially
when you're talking aboutfailed cycles.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Can you even imagine it's got to be?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
devastating.
So we've got some interestingstuff to unpack today Articles,
blog posts and let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Even some social media posts from this fertility
specialist in Bangkok.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Oh, yeah, I saw that Dr Pat.
Yeah, Dr Pat.
He seems like, from what I'veseen online, he really gets it.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
He does seem to have a very empathetic approach.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, and you know, one thing that really jumped out
at me was this statistic froman article out of Bangkok yeah,
it said that 17 percent ofcouples there experience
infertility.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Wow, that's a lot higher than I would guess.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Right Like that's a significant portion of the
population.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It is, and you know it makes you wonder how many
people are struggling with thissilently.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, good point, because it's not like people go
around broadcasting it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Right, exactly, there's still so much stigma
around infertility.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Which is why I think this deep dive is so important.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I agree, we need to shed light on these experiences.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
And you know Dr Pat's perspective is really valuable
here.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh for sure he's on the front lines working with
patients every day.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And he's seeing firsthand the emotional toll it
takes.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Exactly, and you know , it's not just in Bangkok, it's
everywhere.
Infertility is a global issue.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
It is, and here's the thing that blows my mind.
Okay, tell me, despite all theadvancements in fertility
treatments, You'd think.
Success rates for IVF.
They're still surprisingly low.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're talking less than 50%, sometimes even lower,
dependent on a whole range offactors.
It's wild, I mean.
All that hope, all thatinvestment, and for what?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
It's got to be heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
To go through all that and still not have it work
out.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, and that's where the emotional side
of things really comes into play.
Right, you can't just ignorethe emotional impact of all of
this.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Like after a failed cycle, I imagine the grief must
be.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Intense.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Intense.
Yeah, I read that it's oftencompared to the grief of a
miscarriage.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
That makes sense, right, it's a loss.
It's the loss of a dream.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
A dream of a family, a child.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
It's a lot to process and it's not something that
just disappears if a couple endsup having children later on.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
So even if they eventually can see through IVF
or adopt, or, but can stilllinger.
That grief is still there.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Absolutely.
It's important to acknowledgethat and to allow yourself to
grieve.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, to process those feelings.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
And to seek support if you need it.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Makes sense.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
You know, and, speaking of support, I'm curious
about the guys in all of this.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
The men.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, we often hear about the woman's experience,
but what about the men?

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Oh, they're going through it too.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
But how, yeah, like their experience must be so
different.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
It is in some ways, but the emotional burden is
still very real.
I mean, they're not the onesgoing through the physical
procedures, true, but researchin this area is still kind of
limited.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Really.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, but what we do know is that men they feel this
deeply.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I can imagine, especially if the infertility is
attributed to them.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Definitely that can be a really heavy weight to
carry.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Makes you realize that infertility it's a shared
experience.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
It is and it affects both partners in profound ways.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's not just about the couple either.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know Dr Pat talks about this in his survival
guide.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Oh yeah, About the ripple effects.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, he says that infertility can actually strain
relationships with friends andfamily too.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's true.
Think about it.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're going through this incredibly difficult thing
and then you've got well-meaningfriends and family saying
things that are Unintentionallyhurtful.
Yeah, or just not helpful.
Like what?
Oh you know the classic justrelax and it'll happen.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, that one.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Or have you tried insert random fertility tip here
.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
As if we haven't Googled everything under the sun
already.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Exactly.
And then social gatherings theycan become minefields.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Oh, I bet, Especially when you're surrounded by
pregnant women and babies.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
It's like a constant reminder of what you're longing
for.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And it's not like you can just avoid those situations
altogether.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right.
Life keeps happening, whetheryou're ready for it or not.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
So how do you even begin to cope with all of that?
That's the million dollarquestion, isn't it?
It is.
And then, on top of everythingelse, there's the medications.
Oh yeah, the medications.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Hormones are no joke.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
They can really mess with your emotions.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
And the medications used in IVF.
They can amplify everything.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Mood swings, anxiety, even depression.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's a lot to handle.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
So how do you even know if it's the process itself
or the meds?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
That's a good question, and I think it
highlights why Dr Pat's adviceis so valuable.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
His survival guide.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Right, he's been there, he's seen it all.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
And he's offering guidance based on real world
experience.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Exactly.
He knows what people are goingthrough.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
So let's dive into his advice.
What are some of the key thingshe emphasizes?

Speaker 1 (05:44):
dive into his advice.
What are some of the key thingshe emphasizes?
Well, first and foremost hetalks about the importance of
acknowledging your grief Likegiving yourself permission to
feel those emotions Exactly thesadness, the anger, the
disappointment.
It's all valid.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
And it's okay to cry.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Oh, absolutely, crying can be incredibly
cathartic.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's like releasing all that pent up emotion.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
And Dr Pat.
He really stresses that there'sno right or wrong way to grieve
.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
So you don't have to compare yourself to others.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Everyone processes grief differently.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
At their own pace.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Exactly, there's no timeline for this.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
But he doesn't just say go feel your feelings, and
that's it right?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
No, he goes beyond that.
He also talks about theimportance of seeking help.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Like therapy.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Therapy support groups, connecting with others
who understand what you're goingthrough.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So you don't have to go through this alone.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Exactly, there's strength in reaching out for
support.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
And it's not a sign of weakness.
No-transcript.
I like that.
So it's about acknowledgingyour grief-seeking support.
And advocating for yourself ohright, he's big on that too.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
He encourages his patients to ask questions, push
for more testing.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Even consider changing clinics if they're not
getting what they need.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, he's all about empowering his patients.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
To take control of their journey.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
To be active participants in their care.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
But how do you balance that assertiveness with
trusting your doctor?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
That's a good point.
It's not about beingconfrontational.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
It's about being informed and engaged in the
process.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
So it's about finding that sweet spot between trust
and advocacy.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, exactly, and you know, dr Pat also recognizes
that infertility can put a lotof strain on relationships.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Oh yeah for sure, all that stress and uncertainty.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
It can take a toll on even the strongest of bonds.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
So what does he suggest for couples going
through this together?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well, he really emphasizes the importance of
prioritizing the relationship.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Even amidst all the medical stuff.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Especially amidst all the medical stuff, it's easy to
get so caught up in theappointments and procedures.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
You forget to nurture the connection with your
partner.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
It's like IVF, becomes this third entity in the
relationship.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, it did feel that way.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
So how do you prevent that from happening?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, dr Pat.
He has some really simple butprofound advice.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
I'm listening.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
He tells couples to find activities they enjoy doing
together outside of the IVFjourney.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Like what.
Give me some examples.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
He keeps it pretty basic Going for walks, cooking a
meal together, watching a movie, anything that allows them to
reconnect and de-stress.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
So it's about remembering that you're a couple
, first and foremost.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Exactly, and that your relationship is a source of
strength and support.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
And laughter.
He talks a lot about laughter.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh yeah, he's a big believer in the power of
laughter.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
It's like a mini vacation from all the stress.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
And it can really help strengthen your bond as a
couple.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Makes sense.
So we've covered a lot ofground here.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
We have the emotional impact of IVF, the importance
of processing grief.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Seeking support, advocating for yourself.
Seeking support, advocating foryourself, prioritizing your
relationship.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's a lot to take in .

Speaker 1 (08:47):
It is, but there's so much more to explore, like
those day-to-day copingstrategies.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Right.
Dr Pat has some reallyinteresting tips for managing
stress and anxiety.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh yeah, and some of them might surprise you.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Intrigued.
Let's dive into those in thenext part of our deep dive.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
All right.
So you said Dr Pat has somesurprising advice for dealing
with stress and anxiety duringIVF.
Yeah, when I think of IVF,relaxation isn't exactly the
first thing that comes to mind.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Right, it seems like the opposite of relaxing.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, exactly.
So what does he recommend?

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, he's a big advocate for self-care
throughout the whole IVF process.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Okay, but what does that actually look like?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Well, he suggests things like mindfulness,
meditation, breathing exercisesand even music therapy.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Music therapy.
Yeah, like just listening tocalming music.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
It's actually a bit more targeted than that, really,
yeah, there are these curatedplaylists on platforms like
Spotify.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
And they're specifically designed for people
going through IVF.
They use music andpsychological techniques to
promote relaxation, reduceanxiety and just generally
improve emotional well-being.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
So it's not just about listening to whatever
chills you out.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Right, it's more structured and intentional.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like a therapeutic approach to music.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Exactly, and it's amazing how powerful music can
be you know, oh, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
It can completely shift your mood Makes sense that
it could play a role inmanaging the emotional ups and
downs of IVF.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Definitely Okay.
What about the breathingexercises?
Have you ever tried those?

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I've heard of them for stress, but I always thought
, like how much can breathingreally help?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I know it seems so simple, right, but there's
actually a lot of science behindit.
Oh really yeah.
So when we're stressed, ourbreathing gets all shallow and
rapid which actually just makesthe stress worse.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
But focused breathing techniques.
They can help slow down yourheart rate, calm your nervous
system and just bring a sense ofcalm.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
So it's about consciously changing how you
breathe to break that stresscycle.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Exactly, and the best part is you can do it anywhere,
anytime.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
No special equipment or anything.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Nope, just you and your breath.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
I like that, especially since IVF involves so
much waiting and uncertainty.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Right.
All that waiting can reallyfuel anxiety.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Exactly so, finding those little moments to just
breathe.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
It can make a world of difference.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Okay, I'm sold on breathing exercises.
But what about mindfulnessmeditation?
I've tried that before.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
It's not for everyone .

Speaker 2 (11:14):
I could not quiet my mind.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
It takes practice.
The goal isn't to have zerothoughts.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Okay, good, because that seems impossible.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's more about shifting from reacting to your
thoughts and feelings to justobserving them.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Without judgment.
Easier said than done.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
It is, but with practice it can be really
helpful, especially in asituation like IVF where so much
feels out of your control.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
That makes sense when you're constantly worrying
about outcomes.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Focusing on the present moment.
Even if it's just for a fewminutes, it can be grounding.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
It's a way of saying, okay, I can't control what's
going to happen.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
But I can control how I respond to this moment.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yes, and it's also about recognizing that not every
thought you have is true.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
That's good.
Thoughts are just thoughts.
They're not facts.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
So don't believe everything you think.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Words to live by.
You know.
This all reminds me of thatsaying.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Which one?

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot
change, the courage to changethe things I can, and the wisdom
to know the difference.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's perfect and it really aligns with Dr Pat's
advice.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
He's all about empowering his patients to focus
on what they can control.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Their mindset, their self-care practices, their
communication with their partner.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It's a powerful message because sometimes it
feels like everything isspiraling.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Oh, I knew that feeling and you just want to
give up.
Yeah, but that's why Dr Pat isso adamant about seeking support
.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Don't be afraid to call for help.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Therapists, counselors, support groups.
They're there for you.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's a good reminder you don't have to go through
this alone.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
And it's not a sign of weakness to seek help.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
It's actually a sign of strength.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Because you're prioritizing your well-being.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Which is crucial during a process as challenging
as IVF.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Absolutely, and Dr Pat, he really emphasizes that
IVF is not just a medicaljourney.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's emotional and psychological too, exactly, and
speaking of the emotional sideof things, dr Pat has some
really insightful advice aboutrelationship.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Oh yeah, that's so important Because IVF can put a
lot of strain on a relationship.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
It can.
It's easy to get caught up inthe logistics of it all.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
The appointments, the procedures, the medications.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
And lose sight of the connection with your partner.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
It's like the IVF process itself becomes the third
person in the relationship.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, it can feel that way.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
So how do you prevent that?

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Well, Dr Pat, he's all about carving out time for
each other.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Like date nights.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, kind of, but it doesn't have to be fancy.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
He suggests doing things that bring you joy and
help you reconnect as a couple.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Like those activities we talked about earlier.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Exactly Going for walks, cooking together,
watching a movie.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Simple things.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
But powerful.
It's about remembering thatyou're in this together.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
And that your relationship is a source of
strength.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
He also reminds couples to be patient with each
other.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Oh, that's so important, because everyone
copes differently.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Right.
Well, one person finds helpful,another might find annoying.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
So it's about communication and understanding
each other's needs.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
And finding ways to support each other that feel
authentic.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
And speaking of challenges, one of the toughest
things about IVF has got to beKnowing when to stop treatment.
Yeah, that's a big one.
It's like this constant balancebetween hope and the need to
make tough decisions.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
And it can be a really difficult conversation
for couples to have.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Especially if one person's ready to stop and the
other isn't.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Definitely that's where open and honest
communication is so crucial.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Listening to each other's perspectives,
acknowledging the grief anddisappointment.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
And ultimately finding a way forward together.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
So how do you even begin to navigate that?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, dr Pat, he offers some guidance.
Okay, he stresses theimportance of having realistic
expectations.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Understanding the toll that continued treatment
can take, both emotionally andfinancially.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
And being mindful of the impact on your relationship.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
It's a lot to consider.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
It is, and he also encourages couples to lean on
their support systems duringthis time.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Therapists, counselors, support groups.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Anyone who can offer a listening ear and a shoulder
to cry on.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
It's a reminder that you don't have to go through
this alone.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
And that even if you decide to stop IVF treatment.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
You're not giving up on your dream of a family.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
You're simply choosing a different path.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
A path that might lead to unexpected joys and
fulfillment.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
And you know, there are so many ways to create a
family.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
IVF is just one option.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
And it's not the right path for everyone.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well said.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
We've covered so much ground in this deep dive we
have from the emotional rollercoaster of IVF.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
To the importance of self-care.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
The need for open communication and strong support
systems.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
And the tough decisions couples face along the
way.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
But there's one more piece of Dr Pat's advice that I
think is really important tohighlight.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Okay, I'm all ears.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
He talks about finding moments of joy and
lightness throughout the IVFjourney.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Don't let IVF consume your entire life.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Exactly Make time for things that bring you joy,
things that make you laugh,things that remind you of who
you are outside of this process.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
That's such a beautiful reminder.
It's easy to forget about thosethings when you're in the thick
of it.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
It is but those moments of joy, those shared
experiences, they can be asource of strength and
resilience.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
They remind you that there's more to life than just
treatment cycles and doctor'sappointments.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Exactly so.
As we move into the final partof our deep dive, I think it's
important to reflect on thatmessage.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
What brings you joy, what makes you laugh, what are
those things that nourish yoursoul?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Those are great questions to ponder, and in the
next part we'll explore how DrPat encourages couples to
incorporate those elements ofjoy and connection into their
lives, even amidst thechallenges of IVF.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's like he's saying don't forget to live.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Even while you're going through all of this.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
It's so easy to get consumed by the process.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Right, it's all consuming.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
And it's not just about you as an individual
either, Dr Pat.
He really emphasizes theimportance of doing things
together as a couple.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Like having fun together.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, like making a list of things you both enjoy
doing.
Date night ideas Kind of.
But it's more than just datenights.
It's about weaving thosemoments of joy into your
everyday life.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Give me some examples .
What kind of things are wetalking about?

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Oh, simple stuff Going for walks in nature,
watching a funny movie, trying anew recipe.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Listening to music or even just having a good
conversation.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Those are all good ideas.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
But how do you actually make time for that
stuff when you're feeling sooverwhelmed?

Speaker 1 (17:33):
That's the key, isn't it?
It's about being intentional.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Intentional about joy .

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Exactly when you're exhausted and stressed.
It's so easy to let thosethings slide.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
You're in survival mode.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, but Dr Pat, he's reminding us that self-care
isn't a luxury.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's essential.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Exactly, and you know what else he says.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Tell me.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Don't underestimate the power of a good laugh.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Oh, I totally agree with that one.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Laughter is the best medicine sometimes.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
It really is.
It's like a mental reset button.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
And when you're laughing together, it
strengthens your bond as acouple.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Which is so important during this whole process.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
It is.
You know, throughout this deepdive, I've been struck by how
much Dr Pat emphasizes theemotional and psychological
aspects of IVF.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Right, it's not just about the physical stuff.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
It's about the whole person, the mind, the body, the
spirit.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
And I think that's a really important message for
anyone going through IVF.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's about the whole person, the mind, the body, the
spirit, and I think that's areally important message for
anyone going through IVF.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's a holistic journey, yeah, and it's a
reminder that it's okay to askfor help, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
There's no shame in seeking support.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Therapists, counselors, support groups,
friends, family.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Anyone who can offer a listening ear and a shoulder
to cry on.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
And remember, you're not alone in this.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
That's so important to remember.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Infertility is more common than you might think.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Way more common.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Remember that statistic from the Bangkok
article 17% of couples.
It just shows you how manypeople are out there facing
similar challenges.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
And how important it is to break down the stigma.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
So people can talk about it openly and seek support
without shame.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Exactly.
Dr Pad's work in Bangkok is agreat example of that.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
He's really putting himself out there, sharing his
knowledge and experience.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Making a difference in people's lives.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
And that's really what this deep dive has been all
about.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Providing information , resources and, hopefully, a
sense of hope.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Because going through IVF can feel really isolating
and overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
It can, but you're not alone.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
There's support available, there are strategies
that can help and there's alwayshope.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Always, and remember Dr Pat's final piece of advice.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Okay, what is it?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Find those things that bring you joy.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Hold on to them.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Let them be your anchor, let them guide you
towards a brighter future.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Beautifully said.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, I think that's a perfect place to wrap up this
deep dive.
We've covered a lot of groundtoday.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
We have.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
But the conversation doesn't have to end here.
Keep learning, keep exploringand keep reaching out for
support when you need it.
Thanks for joining us on thisdeep dive.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Leading Innovation.
Fertility no-transcript.
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