Church Hurt, God's Ninja Warrior and Church Pet Peeves

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"God didn't do it." Answering a listener's question about supporting someone who has been deeply traumatized by church leadership.

• Separating the individual hurt from the church as an institution
• Supporting someone with church hurt
• Church leaders face unique challenges and burdens often unseen by most
• Finding identity in Christ rather than ministry roles or recognition
• Serving without seeking acknowledgment in a social media-driven world
• Waiting for God's timing instead of forcing open doors

Text the pod with your questions or comments - we want to hear from you and start these conversations!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Deeper Roots Podcast.
We are four hosts with a wholelot of topics talking about life
and godliness.
I got RJ, I got Chris, I gotPastor Jason and myself Zayn.
We're going to dive in it today.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
What up?

Speaker 1 (00:15):
What's happening?

Speaker 2 (00:16):
That was great, by the way.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
What the opening?
The opener.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's like the first time in like three episodes that
I've actually nailed it onetime.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Grace and peace.
Greetings everybody.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Why he?

Speaker 4 (00:30):
sound like Paul if he was about to write to the
Church of Ephesus.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I was trying to contradict the what up thing.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
You wanted to go spiritual on us.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Great day.
Great day.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Everybody, you guys can text the pod and we actually
got a pod text today.
I think it's really interestingto go in.
But, for everybody listening,if you ever have an issue with
what I said about the basketballin a couple episodes and you
want to argue about JustinBieber him being the greatest
male singer of all time, you cantext the pod right underneath
your play button that says textthe pod.

(01:02):
Let us know what you're goingthrough.
If you have any questions orconcerns about anything I said,
or just laughing with RJ orPastor Jason or Chris, just let
us know.
We want to hear from you andstart these conversations and
actually one of the textmessages that came through kind
of informed the topic of today'sconversation.
So we got a text message fromMaryland and it's a big question

(01:23):
I think that we can tackle.
I'm really excited to get intoit.
So hit that like share andsubscribe button.
But text message from Marylandsays my girlfriend and I have
been dating for three years.
Unfortunately, she'sexperienced some church hurt
where her family was gettingtaken advantage of by the pastor
of the church and there wassome molestation happening in
the church as well.
For that reason she's beenclosed off about church and

(01:45):
reconnecting with God, but she'sopen to it.
How do I best support her ingetting reconnected with God and
the church?
Now I'm going to be honest withyou.
As soon as I read that text, Isaid give Pastor Jason the
strength and anointing to answerthis question.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I also prayed.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
I'm excited to hear what you guys have to say.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
All right, ball's in your court, chris Elder, what?

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Elder.
Oh man, what a question, what astatement.
So, okay, it may be good that Ispeak before Pastor Jason,
because he'll probably have todo some cleaning up and some
apologizing for my thoughts,because I was thinking about
that.
First of all, whoever this is,definitely apologize for what

(02:40):
you went through.
Not taking this lightly.
That is a huge thing and I hopethat through time you find
someone and God opens a doorthat you can actually be healed
from that moment and that you'renot stagnant in a moment in
time that's already passed butyou can move forward, and that
he'll bring people into yourlife that actually reflects who

(03:00):
he truly is Now.
With that being said, this iswhere I might get a little
controversial.
For example, I was thinkingabout this and really trying to
meditate on it and think itthrough, and something Pastor
Jason said here recently in pastSunday service make sure I say
it right ecclesia, meaning thatit's not the building, that's

(03:25):
the church, but it's the calledout ones.
Right, and so, if the buildingisn't the church, because
buildings don't have feelings,buildings don't have actions but
yet it seems that we takesomething a person does and we
transform it into the entity ofchurch and not the individual.
And it made me think about thatbecause I know plenty of people

(03:47):
that have gone to doctors andwent to the hospital for
sickness and even though theydidn't agree with the doctor or
it was a mistreatment, theywould still go back to that
doctor and be like you know whatSomething's not right, like I
know you studied, I know you putall this time in, I know you
have experience, but there'ssomething in my body telling me
what you're diagnosing me withor not diagnosing me with is not

(04:08):
correct.
So either we're going to getthis correct or I'm going to go
to another doctor for anotheropinion, which is a lot of times
what they do.
They go to doctor, doctor toget an opinion.
Now, how does that relate to thechurch?
It's interesting that when itcomes to the church, nobody
really pushes back at that point.
Instead of them saying I don'tagree with what the pastor said

(04:29):
or what that church did, it nowbecomes the whole entity
worldwide.
Every single church is the sameas that pastor and they
represent that same pastor'sbelief and they're all corrupt
and they're all these things.
Instead of saying no as thebody, as the church individually
, there's something you're doingthat's not helping me in my
ailment or in my time, and so Idon't agree with you.

(04:50):
I'm going to go get anotheropinion from somewhere else.
I'm going to go seek the Lordsomewhere else.
And because of representation, Ithink it goes back to a lot of
what we talked about last weekwhen we were talking about how
we look for our theology and ourprinciples and things coming
from a person and they're thestandard, versus God being the

(05:10):
plumb line and God being thestandard and the requirement.
So therefore, when that personmesses up now all of a sudden,
because we've idolized thatperson and we've cherished and
put them on a higher pedestalthan the one who actually gave
them the message, then now wehave created a rift between us
and how we really get saved andwe deem it church hurt when it's
really not church hurt.

(05:31):
The pastor hurt you, thosepeople in that community hurt
you.
It's also funny how people havea relationship and a man or
woman will hurt them in thatrelationship, but they don't
give up on men and women as awhole.
They still have otherrelationships, they still date,
they still move forward, and sothat was kind of where I went
with it and it's not again,because there's plenty of

(05:53):
misrepresentation.
There's plenty of.
I'll say this and then I'm goingto pass it off because I've not
been talking for a minute.
But I seen a clip that Iactually was thinking about
sending to the group, where itwas a pastor and he had all
these people behind him in thepulpit and I guess it was his
honorary service when they werehonoring him and he had made
mention.
You know, I bought six to sevencars for this congregation.

(06:14):
I bought what was that?
A stock truck or whatever youcall it, a box truck with a lift
and all that.
So when it comes to my day, oh,y'all going to honor me, y'all
going to honor me, y'all goingto honor me.
And if you weren't here, then Iexpect to see a healthy check
when I see you.
But if you ain't here, youcan't give me that.
Then I'm not going to put inmore for you than you willing to

(06:34):
put in for me.
I'm not going to sit here andtalk to you, I ain't going to
answer your calls.
Ain't that right?
Amen, and they're amen in thisand they're oh, yeah, that's my
bishop.
He even said, you know, he evencursed from the pulpit in that
moment and I'm like that's aprime example right there of if
you can't separate the man fromGod and that one situation, then

(06:58):
that will be enough for me.
Like I'm never going to churchagain.
They're all crooks, like it'sall about them.
That's not what God represents.
When you read scripture and youunderstand the text, that's
nothing about God in thatsituation and scenario.
But I'm going to stop right nowbecause I know I done ate up a
lot of time and get your fellas'opinion.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, I would just say God didn't do it.
Again, I hate that thathappened at a church.
I hate that a church communitycould, could hurt somebody with,
especially with you know,getting taken advantage of

(07:35):
molestation and that type ofthing.
You know, I can't imagine.
You know, without mentioningobviously any names I know of, I
know of a.
You know that things like thathave happened fairly local to me
.
I've heard a lot of stories, alot of people that got hurt and

(07:57):
fortunately a lot of thosepeople have now found.
I mean, there was a time periodwhere there was a lot of things
going on, a lot of things beingconfronted, but I'd say, like
the one part is, only God canheal that.
And I would say support her,pray with her.
You know you don't have to washover it or act like it didn't

(08:22):
happen.
You know you don't have to washover it or act like it didn't
happen, um, but I would say,just encourage and lead, lead
and finding finding a good newchurch.
There are a lot of goodchurches, there are a lot of
good bodies that you know.
Use your discernment, um, feelfree to, to go and and you know,
uh, try, try different placesout.

(08:43):
You know, talk to people in thecongregation.
You know, feel free to be alittle, you know you know, you
don't have to go to the firstplace and immediately plug in
and go over to people's housefor small group.
You don't have to immediatelydo that, you know.
But I would say, pray, ask Godto send you somewhere and when

(09:06):
you believe the, the Holyspirit's confirmed that you're
where you're supposed to be.
You know, I'd pray that youjump in and, uh, I'd pray that
that those, um, those feelingsof hurt would be lifted from you
and I pray that you would, uh,you would be able to serve and
connect with people like you'venever been hurt before.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, it's really good wisdom y'all.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, I think there are so many different shades of
church hurt Like it's hard tolike speak to one.
But to answer you know thisperson's question here how do
you best support somebody whohas experienced a lot of hurt?
I think for me, first thingthat comes to mind was Jesus
never said come to my church.

(09:50):
He said, come to me all who areheavy laden and I will give you
rest.
I think when I think of peoplein the Bible who have
experienced church hurt, youdon't think Paul was hurt by a
lot of different people.
David was hurt by people whowere supposed to have God's
anointing.
Jesus had 12 close people andone of them sought to kill him.

(10:11):
Like you could just see so manyexamples of people who were
supposed to have God in theirlife were supposed to be Jesus
followers that hurt other peopleand in every situation where
that hurt occurred that personthat was hurt had to go right
back to God and find theirrestoration and find their
healing and find their restthere.

(10:32):
I think with the situation ofthe type of hurt that this
person is talking about, it'svery hard to be the sole
supporter of that one personthat has something that heavy,
you know, and I think it's evenin my own life where people who
have had this specific type ofhurt before I've tried to be

(10:56):
their one safety net and theirone, like you, can lean on me
and that's just too much for meto handle because I'm not God
and God still has.
They say there's safety.
There is safety in a multitudeof counsel.
You cannot be the only onethat's supporting your
girlfriend.
I also think, too, the factthat you even said like she's

(11:17):
open, there is a certain worldof healing that has happened.
It might take a little while toget out that shell, but
connecting in community, I think, really helps in this situation
, because you are not enough foryour relationship.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I can do nothing but echo what you guys have said.
I think instances like thisteach us what we already know is
that humanity, even in our bestefforts, we make a flop out of
a lot of stuff, and so I think,of all the things that God has

(11:55):
ordained and instituted andestablished, how sometimes those
are the places that fill uswith hurt the most, I think of
family.
It is the first thing that Godinstituted and established was
family, and how much of our touse you know language our trauma
or triggers come from somethingthat God established with the

(12:19):
family, then with the church.
The same way, god establishedand said that he would build the
church, and a lot of difficultyand struggle and issues come
from dealings in church.
And I think your brothers havespoken to this really well that
just because there were rottenapples and there will be rotten

(12:42):
apples and there are rottenapples, does not mean that the
institution is not God-ordainedand it does not mean that
there's not value in theinstitution.
In fact, I would submit thereason the enemy fights it so
much is because of the benefitof it, and so I would speak
specifically to this situation.
I think because of the attackor the wall that is.

(13:06):
I mean, obviously it's easy tounderstand why that wall would
be built up toward church and tothat community.
But Jesus told Peter.
He said the enemy has tried tosift you.
He said, but I pray for youthat your faith wouldn't fail.
And I think about the stuffthat we go through with family,
the stuff that we go throughwith church.

(13:26):
I think it's all an attack ofthe enemy to try to rob us of
our faith, our trust in God.
We don't trust in church, wedon't trust in the people in our
church.
The Bible says no man after theflesh.
We don't put trust in thepeople that surround us.
We trust God.
And that's different.

(13:46):
And a lot of these situations,what they do, is harmful and as
hurtful as they are, neverdiminishing that.
And I'm not saying God causesthem, but God uses them to show
us how different he is than anyother human.
And I think that's the tendencysometimes to make become
codependent with other people,even codependent with the church

(14:10):
, rather than being dependentupon God.
And instances like this shouldteach us very strongly that God
is our only strength, god is ouronly help, he's the only one
that we can lean to and that'sthe way he uses situations like
that for our good.
So, rj, when you were talkingabout this as your prayer for
them, that they would, when theyfound a healthy church now, can

(14:33):
you imagine how confident theywalk into it, knowing that there
isn't someone or something thatis able to take their eyes off
of God anymore.
So what people bring good andbad, it doesn't affect their
identity, it doesn't affect whothey are.
It doesn't add or take anythingaway.

(14:55):
Those are supplemental things,things that can be
extemporaneous things, but theirsoul identity is built in Jesus
Christ, who they are, in Christ, and then from that you can
serve a community well andactually be served by a
community well.
I think that's why in marriage,when Jesus teaches two shall
become one, the math doesn'tseem to work well, but it's two

(15:17):
whole people.
When they marry, they canactually love each other well
and they can receive love well.
And I think churches nothinggets us in trouble in church
anymore is when we wantsomething from the church that
God was supposed to provide forus, and moments like this, when
we are made whole and we arehealed, it actually makes us and

(15:42):
creates a better representationfor our future.
Again, god did not cause it.
It was not him, it did notrepresent him, but he uses all
of these instances and worksthem together for our good.
And then, secondly, I'll endwith this this should be every
time we hear these stories.
As the church, like we shouldfeel the weight of how our

(16:07):
actions affect other people andthe decisions that we make.
And I'm not telling that weshould be, you know that the
idea of perfection is, you know,should paralyze us.
We shouldn't serve becausewe're going to not do things
well, serve because we're goingto not do things well, but to do
things sincerely and to dothings with a genuine heart.

(16:28):
I think these instances likethis should cause us, as a
church, to purify our motives,to purify our actions, to be
careful about the things that wesay, to be watchful and
vigilant about how we treatpeople.
And I look back almost 20 yearsin ministry, 40 some years in
church, like I know, I don'thave a reason to be a victim

(16:51):
today, because I know I've beena part of negligence or not
being able to be what somebodyelse needed, or even in my own
immaturity, what somebody elseneeded, or even in my own
immaturity, my own noviceness,not handling a situation well or
right and I should have handledit a lot different.
And those moments theysometimes they're like man I

(17:15):
don't feel like I can do thiswell or do this right.
And in my weak moments that'smy response.
I don't think I need to be inministry, but in my strong
moments they are okay.
I learned through this and nowI know how to handle this
situation better.
I know how to go back and say Imessed up in that, I was
short-tempered there, I letsomething bother me, that it

(17:35):
shouldn't bother me.
I handled that situation in avery immature way and so, just
as a church, our maturity and asleaders within a church, the
way we live above reproach, theway we handle and love on the
people that God has placed inour life and placed in our heart

(17:56):
to our community, to stewardlike those are huge
responsibilities.
I think that's why James saysdon't desire something if God
hasn't called you to something,because it's a lot of people, a
lot of things are at stake whenyou make decisions, and so I
think that should be a refining,purifying for us all.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I was thinking, as all y'all were talking and were
talking about prayer, and I wasjust thinking that, you know, a
reality of life is you can'tchange nobody.
You can only change yourself.
And I reread the question andthe statement at the end of how
can I, if she's closed off thechurch and God like, but you're

(18:38):
still there and just call them aspade, a spade?
In all honesty, right now youprobably are that representation
and that seed that God is usingin her life to understand him
and to correct all the faults ofthe pastors and all that.
Now, sometimes we'd rather putit on leadership and we'd rather

(18:58):
put it on other people.
But right now you are thatlight that can shine in the
darkness and you have theopportunity.
And I'm not saying you have tobe perfect, but you depend on
God and let him deal with youand your walk and, naturally,
with her being attached to you.
Nothing can withstand in thatmoment, in that presence.
The more pure you become, themore consistent you become, the

(19:22):
more you depend on God and makeit known that you depend on God.
If you mess up, it's OK,apologize.
You be that forgiveness, you bethat wisdom, you be that
connection, you be that love andlet her see that and it'll open
up a lot more opportunities,because one she'll probably get,
it'll give you a foothold tospeak about God in her life and
also whatever or whoever you'reconnected to in a community you

(19:44):
have.
I'm sure at some point she willbe open to going and
experiencing that community withyou, as she continues to watch
you.
And I'm not going to say it'sgoing to be easy, but you stay
in your word and you keep goingto God, and I know.
A lot of times, as a marriedman, I often hear most people
give this advice to the wives oh, just go in your prayer closet
and tackle this situation.
But as men, I think we shouldbe in there more than the women,

(20:07):
to be honest, as the voice, aswe say that we're leading so
even in this moment.
It even gives you practice forthe future, but you get in your
prayer closet and you staybefore God on your behalf and
hers, and that's just somethingyou're going to have to bear and
it's good practice for later inlife.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Amen, that's a great point.
If I am a supporter of somebody, I better make sure I'm being
supported by God.
Yeah, because I can make thesituation so much more worse.
So much more worse.
Is that a sentence?

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Just take the word, we're going with it.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I can make that situation a lot worse than it is
.
If I'm not attached to the vine, I can't give you the fruit
that you need if I'm notattached to the vine that's
supposed to give me that fruit.
I think that's a reallypowerful point you said.
And another thing too, I think,in Matthew 16, 33,.
Jesus is about to be betrayed.
He's about to go through awhole lot of hurt, and this
scripture has been in my spirit.
Above reproach scripture hasbeen in my spirit a lot lately.

(21:04):
I think God personally iscalling me to make sure I'm
above reproach so that thefoundations of my marriage stay
strong.
So that's been a really bigconviction point for me.
But right before he's about tobe betrayed by the closest
people around him, jesus saysthis to his disciples indeed,
the hour is coming yes has nowcome that you will be scattered,

(21:24):
each to his own and will leaveme alone.
He's letting them know you'regoing to leave me and I'm going
to be all by myself.
The next sentence he says andyet I am not alone, because the
Father is with me.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Even though he was alone by the people around him
and ostracized and hurt bypeople around him.
Jesus even recognized that Istill have a connection to the
Father.
Okay, but what about us, jesus?
In the next verse he says thesethings I have spoken to you
that in me you have your peaceBecause I'm getting my
connection from the Father andyou're connected to me.

(22:01):
You can have that peace whenyou are alone.
That doesn't stop there.
Then he keeps going to me.
You can have that peace whenyou are alone.
That doesn't stop there.
Then he keeps going.
He says in this world you willhave tribulation, but be of good
cheer because I've overcome theworld.
That lets me know anyloneliness, depression,
ostracized, church hurt,whatever I got to do, what Jesus
had to do when he was hurt andhe was ostracized and he was
backstabbed and the people werecoming after him in his life, he

(22:24):
connected himself to the Fatherand because Jesus did that on
earth, I can connect myself toJesus and find peace because he
overcame whatever tribulationI'm going through.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Amen, amen.
I think all of us sitting atthis table may be as extreme
some of us may be as extreme asthis text message have
experienced church hurt verysimilar to this, and I say that
to say there are, whether it'sthis extreme or not, everyone
has justifications and reasonsfor running from God and running

(22:56):
from the church.
And again, that's the enemy'sattack.
That's what he does, and yousaid that so well.
The faith that God has given usit leans into because we know
that it's good for us.
We lean into it because we knowthat's what God has called us
to.
So, as much as we are spendingtime understanding the

(23:17):
experience as best we can, Ialso want to speak faith to you
as well, and just speak faith toyour girlfriend.
She's going to make it through.
There's enough grace to coverthis, there's enough grace to
move forward and she will comeout stronger.
On the other end, and althoughyou may have a reason and a
justification, don't let it bean excuse for not moving forward

(23:39):
.
Don't let them have that muchcontrol over your life where you
walk outside of your identity,walk outside of your calling
because of what somebody elsedid.
It was a moment, it was a, itwas an instance, it was an
experience, but it does not havethat much control over your
life where it's able to limitand paralyze you from moving
forward.
So there's grace for this.

(24:00):
The holy spirit empowers you tomove through this and pass this
and we're looking forward to tothe beauty on the other side.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
So just thinking about that, because a lot of
times people think the pastor's,above all the things that the
congregation goes through whenit comes to church hurt.
That's typically a membertalking about the pastor hurting
them.
But let's talk about and I'mgoing to ask you, you really
want to talk about it?
Yeah, let's talk about and I'mgoing to ask you you don't
really want to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, let's talk about it.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Let's go there, boys, because this is a prime example
of being able to deal with itand keep moving on.
Because as a leadership, youhave a lot more opportunity
where the arrows come at you andyou can be hurt by the member.
But you don't hear many pastorscalling it church hurt when
their members leave them thatthey thought was going to be by
their side, or they'reslandering their name in the
street but they sitting in theirface like they're their best

(24:49):
friend.
So, from that standpoint, whenthey are attacking you, how do
you, pastor, jason?
Um, how do you handle that?
hey, pastor jason over heresweating boy, I can't tell if he
hyped up to have thisconversation.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Get it off your chest .

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I'm not hyped up man.
The reason I got nervous isbecause I don't know how much I
can share and how much I can'tshare.
I agree with you and again, I'min no way want to play a victim
, but if it is and I'll justspeak culturally, I'll try to
speak in generalities it hasbecome acceptable and almost

(25:33):
encouraged to hurt people inleadership.
Right now it is just a commonthing of and am I glad that God
is purifying his church, I'm sothankful.
But it is almost acceptable andencouraged to tear down people
in leadership.
That's a pretty common thing,but to the same encouragement

(25:55):
that we gave to this couple.
It's the same thing that wereceive.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
God chose us, god calls us, godput us in this position and
that's a part of the cross ofbearing.
It is to being able to dealwith criticism, hear criticism,
know when to talk and when notto talk, how not to take things

(26:19):
personal.
But I mean, I've failed at it amillion times and probably will
continue.
But it's a real thing and Ithink if you have I'm not
talking about me but if you'relistening and you have a good
pastor, encourage them and honorthem and tell them that you're
praying for them, you're liftingthem up Not to be yes, men, not

(26:41):
to just go along witheverything that they say.
That's not the heart at all,but a heart of honor for that
position.
I think Scripture teaches usthat, because there's enough
attacks from demonic places andwolves in sheep's clothing that
they could probably use some ofthat encouragement.

(27:03):
So I hope that's a generalenough statement.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
No, it's good.
What a humble answer.
That was great.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
You threw the rod out there.
You didn't bite at all.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Nah, I'm a bite.
So, my parents are pastors andthe way that my parents' church
was set up was that both myfather and my mother taught from
the pulpit at the same time.
So my dad was still lead seniorpastor, like he was still the
one you know, ordained by god,driving the ship there, but my

(27:36):
mom was also beside him teaching.
So you got like a father,mother, parental man, woman
perspective, while coming atonce.
Church people are also fallenpeople and I cannot tell you the
countless times I have seendeacons, ministers and elders
from the pulpit and then in thepastor's office two completely

(28:00):
different people.
And one thing that my parentsdid that taught me was how to
walk straight with arrows inyour back.
Wow, and that is a tough yes,sir, when you are bleeding and
you still got to patch somebodyelse's wound and the person
you're patching was the personthat cut you in the first place

(28:20):
and then have to see them comeoff and to my own fault, because
I'm a fallen individual tooWatch the hurt that they're
going through.
Come home to me hurting myparents and what I'm doing, and
they still have to walk straightwith arrows in their back.
Like the level of resilienceand the level of patience and
loving, kindness and grace thatyou have to walk through in that

(28:42):
position as a leadership.
Now that I'm an adult and I lookback in those moments and be
like actually that wasn't anormal conversation, it happened
too much to them, but that wasnot normal for somebody to have
to hold and have to carry with.
You know, we had a small churchof maybe less than 100 families
but man, in the mostencouraging moments where I did
see my parents get emotional oras pastors and the ways that it

(29:05):
affected their marriage oraffected their friendships,
that's a whole otherconversation about.
Pastors sometimes do not have acommunity of their own because
they are the leaders ofcommunity and that's a whole
different conversation.
But the moments where I seenthe joy of the Lord being their
strength is when the saintsaround them randomly just said

(29:27):
I'm thinking about you and I'mpraying for you.
I appreciate what you're doing.
I saw that interaction at theback of the church by the trash
cans and by the water cooler andI know it's a lot.
I don't even know all thedetails, but can I cook for you
this week?
Hey, you want to just go outand have fun?
You want to just go play somemini golf or something like that
.
It was such an encouragement.

(29:48):
I think that's why the Bibleencouraged us to encourage each
other in the faith, especiallythese leaders.
Now, looking back to this day,I have so much respect for my
parents in having gone throughthat because I couldn't be one
of the 12 disciples.
Jesus wouldn't have allowed meto, because I'm going to cut you
because how dare you come intomy place?

(30:08):
You feel me.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
I still need some sanctification.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, I mean this is a heavy conversation, you know,
like pretty much everybody we'retalking about here, I've made a
lot of mistakes, both as afollower and a leader, and I

(30:33):
don't say like God put us incommunity to help each other, to
encourage each other, andthat's why, you know, I used to
think at one point I wasthinking, you know, maybe this,
maybe the small church homemovement, is the way to go.
You know, you got less people,less stuff to deal with, no

(30:54):
politics, that type of thing,and then that's not it either.
God put things in in order fora reason.
And we're here.
I was thinking when I wasthinking about, like somebody
that's out of church going backinto church, and I thought of a

(31:15):
quote that I heard of years agofrom Charles Spurgeon.
He said if I had never joined achurch until I found one that
was perfect, I should never havejoined one at all.
And the moment I did join it,if I had found one, I should
have spoiled it, for it wouldnot have been a perfect church

(31:38):
after I became a member of it.
Still imperfect as it is, it isthe dearest place on earth to
us and I think, like I mean, forme.
There's been nothing, outsideof God himself, that has been
more special to me than thegroup of believers that we are

(31:59):
connected to.
So I would just encourageanybody who does not have a
church, who does not have a home, even these people that are
talking now please like, findcommunity, find body, god put
this as the bride of Christ.
It's a dear community.
It's built specifically to holdeach other up and to serve the

(32:24):
Lord together.
And, yeah, that's myencouragement, amen.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
I'll speak to pastors .
The reason, isaiah, what youjust shared is the reason that
at 16 years old I knew the Lordhad called me into ministry.
I knew it Sunday eveningservice.
I felt it in my spirit.
But it was in that service.
I knew the Lord had called meinto ministry and at 16, I told

(32:55):
I remember telling my parents ata Bojangles after Sunday
evening service I won't do it, Irefuse to do it.
I know what the Lord is sayingand I refuse to do it.
And my dad asked me.
He said why are you soaggressive against it?
And I said because I've seenwhat you've been through.
I've seen what you faced.
I've seen the conversationsthat nobody else sees.
Sunday mornings you get textmessages and calls and things

(33:17):
that he experienced and wentthrough.
My mom experienced and wentthrough.
And I looked him square in theeye.
I said Dad, I love you.
I said I will serve what God isdoing in your life.
For the rest of my life I'llgive everything that I have to
holding your arms up, but I willnot be a minister.
I don't want to do it and I sawthe behind the scenes part of
it and I say that to say likefor pastors and leaders, and it

(33:40):
happened.
Many of you know my story that,at 21 years old, god and my, my
foolish statement was God wasgoing to have to write it on the
wall.
And then, at 21 years old, heshut down my whole life, um, and
a lot of different waysphysically, emotionally, career,
everything, uh.
And he had to write it on thewall the direction that he
wanted me to go, and that thatmoment was was finally my

(34:03):
surrender.
It was my Haneini moment oflike.
Okay, this is my yes, I don'twant to do this.
This is not because I'm beggingto do this, but I feel so
strongly because I love the Lord.
I'm thankful that God gave me aheart to love the Lord.
I love Him, but I did not wantthe pressure and the

(34:23):
responsibility of being in theplace where I presently am.
So, just as an encouragement topastors, it's a part of the
weight that you carry, it's partof what God has called you to,
and he has never called us toanything that he will not give
us grace to do, and so if he'scalled you to it, he'll supply

(34:43):
everything that you need for themoment.
And, isaiah, you made astatement and I read this.
I heard this quote a few monthsago and it's been ringing in my
head since then.
The average person loses aboutfive to seven close people in
their life.
In their lifetime they loseabout five to seven, whether it
be through death or a closefriend moving away In a lifetime

(35:05):
, you lose about five to seven.
Whether it be through death ora close friend moving away In a
lifetime, you lose about five toseven close people to you.
A pastor loses about five toseven close people to them every
year.
Every year, someone that theyconsider a brother, a sister, a
mom, a dad.
They move, they you knowthere's, you know reason, all

(35:27):
those things they die, they passaway and they get close to
someone that five to seven timesa year they have to grieve in
some type of way.
And I say that that is that'sthe.
The probably the mostchallenging part of pastoring is
to become protective but notguarded, to become bold but not

(35:53):
unkind.
And I think that's the balancethat I haven't always done well
with, because sometimes I'vebeen overguarded, I've been
overprotected and I didn't letpeople in because I knew at some
point I was going to have togrieve them, I was going to lose
them at some point.
And so I kept people out.

(36:14):
I kept people at arm's distance, at arm's length, and then
sometimes I've been completelytoo open, where Paul says, don't
lay hands on any man suddenly,and I've allowed people in to
emotional parts that I knewbetter than to allow them in
that quickly.
And so I've lost and struggledwith that on both ends.

(36:37):
But I would encourage pastorsand leaders.
It is a part of the call.
Maturity is so necessary andthat's why pastoring is more
than a gift.
It has to be about character,it has to be about fruit,
because your gift to preach orgift to prophesy, or gift to

(36:58):
give a word of knowledge or aword of wisdom, it will not hold
you in these seasons, yourability to teach will not
sustain you in those seasons ofthe grieving process.
And then the healing and thewholeness process.
Because we need as a body, weneed whole leaders.
We need healed whole leaders,not standoffish, unapproachable,

(37:22):
not so wishy-washy that youjust allow anything and
everything in.
But there's a wholeness inbeing strong and also being kind
.
And the body needs strong,whole leaders.
And it doesn't mean that wewon't go through things, but get
healed, get around community,find people that speak life into

(37:43):
you.
Spend time in the presence ofthe Lord.
Find people that speak lifeinto you.
Spend time in the presence ofthe Lord, not just performing
with your gift and your personal, your private life is the
anchor.
If the pressure from the outsidebecomes more than the pressure
from the inside, you are goingto collapse.
So if you're carrying thisweight and it all is about your
gift or it's all is about theperformance, it's all about

(38:04):
impressing people the pressurefrom the outside will be too
much, unless he is the one thatsustains you in the private
place, where he is actually theone who you're satisfied with,
not the way he uses you.
You actually find yourcontentment in him, not just in
the way that people treat you orthe way they look to you.
And so for your own healthpastors, for your own health

(38:26):
ministers, that maturity andgrowth hear my heart this is
coming from someone who's failedat it a million times but the
pressure from the inside, yourlove for the Lord, your personal
identity of who you are inChrist that is the part that
pushes the pressure from theoutside.
Although it's there, it doesnot define you and you will not

(38:48):
collapse because there's greaterin you than that which is
outside of you.
Amen.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Man there's some nuggets in this episode, man
this is the episode y'all needto share.
Yeah, I just building on thatwas really good, just building
on top of that.
Those who feel the call butaren't actively in the role.
This is why you should bepatient and let the Lord do what

(39:17):
he is doing in your life.
Why you're not in the role thatmaybe you think you should or
maybe that you feel like God'sleading you.
I think the Lord is perfectingyou.
He's working on you.
There are some things inministry that could kill you.

(39:37):
It could kill you if you get init too early.
It could kill you if you try tostep in.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Not just spiritually kill you physically.
Kill you Physically.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Kill you physically physically kill you physically,
kill you and and sorry, I didn'tmean to interrupt you.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
No, no, no you're fine.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
You're fine because I think about like, um, like I
was just thinking about howoften you used to travel and
preach and um, but never oncedid you.
This is where we can get into alittle bit of something else.
But, um, you never oncepromoted yourself.
Like you, you barely would evenshare.

(40:16):
If somebody shared somethingabout you and you never would
would put it out.
There is that part of like.
Okay, I don't want to doanything that the lord isn't,
isn't leading me to do, or likeI was thinking there were times
that you know probably, where Imean you maybe preach, like
every day of the week atsomewhere.

(40:37):
You know, um, you probablycould have even went on the road
and not had a church, you know,and just went straight,
itinerant, you know pastor, withjust a wee bit of marketing,
probably didn't even just onewebsite with the clip.
You know what I mean.
You know donation minimum fivegrand.

(40:57):
And then you know the nextthing, you know.
You know.
I mean what was that?
Like you know, uh, I, so youthink about that.
Like don't unless, unless thelook, if you're supposed to be
somewhere, the Lord will put youthere, he will put you there.
It's not on you.
Don't try to force your wayinto anything, don't try to put

(41:19):
your foot in any door that theLord hadn't opened.
And if it's meant to be, it'smeant to be, it's gonna be,
because they're it's, it's aweight, not just it is a
physical, but the the forthere's forces.
Yes, sir, yes, sir, yes sirthere are spiritual forces that
that, if you're not ready, I'mjust saying that's no, speak on

(41:43):
it what was that man in the newtestament that tried to cast
that demon out and he wasn'tready for it?

Speaker 3 (41:48):
and the demons turned on him he said who is you?

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Paul, I know Jesus, I know when your grandma stay and
he put the beats on that man.
Like, seriously Like.
To me, the difference is Davidand Saul and the way they
started their ministries.
I think a lot of times you'llhear people great, I got to
preach on myself now, lord.
Talk sir, there's a lot ofpeople that will tell you I see

(42:13):
the anointing of God in yourlife.
I see where you're going.
I see your fears.
There's really there.
Do not move until God tells youto Amen, or you're going to end
up like Saul.
Yep, the people elected thepeople elected Saul.
They were like he looks like hecould be a great king.
He looks tall and strong and wewant a king, and so let's give

(42:35):
us Saul.
And God said I didn't put himthere, but if y'all want to put
him there, go ahead.
Meanwhile, David is doing hisfaithfulness in the back
pastures where nobody can seehim, and that's the one that got
elevated.
Even when the prophet got there, his own daddy didn't even try
to elevate him to the position.
God had to tell the prophetthere's somebody missing in here

(42:56):
, you need to ask some questions, and I feel like Then he went
back to serving.
He went back to serving.
He didn't get his crown in thatmoment.
Man, I have been in somepositions where I have rushed it
and put myself in places andpositions and call-ins and I
look around and I'm like dang,why do I feel like the glory has
left me?

(43:17):
Why do I feel like I'm notequipped?
I was so confident before thismoment and God never told me to
stand in that position because Iwasn't equipped yet.
Crazy Be David, not Saul.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Yeah, crazy.
Be David, not Saul, rj.
Going back to what you said,man, I I I get a lot of flack
and from peers, from friends,from family, for and I may err
too far on the side of notbranding and stuff like that,

(43:52):
and that's kind of what peoplesay is I go too far, extreme,
but like it, it's a fear in meand I hope it's a righteous fear
that I don't want to.
I feel like the more you try tohide, the better equipped you
are when God comes to find you,and so I would encourage people

(44:13):
you see this in the life ofJesus where he would do a
miracle and he said don't tellanybody, don't go tell anybody,
don't tell anybody that that'swhat happened.
And like that's a part ofChristianity that we don't teach
very well and we very rarelyhear taught in a world of
branding and marketing and, youknow, getting everything out,

(44:35):
like there's a spiritual part ofthat.
Some things were supposed to besecret, some things were
supposed to be in private, and Ithink social media is a big
part of kind of over-publicizingeverything in our life and
nothing's so much wrong withthat other than the point of
there are some things that Godintended for your right hand not

(44:57):
to know what your left hand wasdoing, because your reward and
then your promotion is not insomebody's commendation.
So when Jesus told him, don'tgo tell anybody and some of them
, they couldn't stop, they hadto tell it, they had to share it
, they had to get it out.
All that.
But his heart was I'm okay withnothing, but you and my father

(45:19):
knowing what I did, and that wasokay and that was satisfaction.
And for me I think that's mygoal have I probably cost myself
a lot and I'm okay with that.
I am completely fine with that,because I want to know whatever
opportunities God brings in mypath, I want to know that it
wasn't because I broke the dooropen to get in there.

(45:43):
And I want to say this tosomebody that is in that patient
stage you cannot hide anywherethat God can't find you when he
needs you, you, you, I don'tcare.
Who hates you, who despises you, who doesn't like you, who's
jealous of you, who's overlookedyou.
None of that is a is a factor,and when God wants to use you,

(46:06):
he will come find you.
If you are in a shepherd field,if you're at wherever you are,
god is God where to find you andhe'll bring you at the right
time to use you for what heneeds you for.
And so all you men arewitnesses of this, y'all that
are sitting at the table, y'allare witnesses of this, y'all
have done this and continue todo this.
And I think there's people in mylife that I know, like my dad,

(46:29):
dad giving me opportunities whenI was not ready for I didn't
ask for it, but that was hiscall.
Like he, he wouldn't let mehide, so he pushed me out.
There's other ministers and menand women that, at opportunity,
they refuse to, so they push meout.
Um, and promotion doesn't comefrom the North, the South, the
East and the West.
It comes from the Lord, uh, andhe uses people to, and he uses

(46:51):
people to push you in thosedirections.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Amen.
I was talking to my son about.
You know he was talking aboutdon't let your right hand know
what your left hand doing.
And talking about you know youthink about.
Jesus said like fast, and ifyou're fasting don't let anybody
know.
Um, for the people, that thepeople that let everybody know
that's their reward, is the, thepraise of the people.

(47:17):
And so I was talking to him, um, because we were talking about
doing something, um, somethingthat was on his heart to do, and
I was like, okay, in this world, we're like I want us to think
of it like.
We're like I want us to thinkof it like this we're like
secret agents for the kingdom,right?
We're like ninjas, okay, wedon't have to tell nobody what

(47:38):
we're doing.
This is something we're doing,okay, we're going to do it, and
we're going to do it for thesake of the people we're doing
it for, and we're going to seehow long we can do it without
telling anybody.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
So good bro, without telling anybody we can do it
without telling anybody.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
So good bro, Without telling anybody so good bro and
that got them excited aboutdoing something without the
acknowledgement of doing it.
We got the audience of one andwe're sent here to serve other
people.
Those are the two things we'rehere to do.

(48:11):
So let's learn this in thissmall thing that's not so small,
come on.
Yeah, let's learn this in thesmall thing that we don't need.
We ain't even got to tell yourmama.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
We keep it secret from mama.
Somebody put it on Instagram.
What you said was so powerfulwhen you do something and and do
it to to let everybody knowit's no longer about that person
anymore, it's about you, yeah,and you said, let's do it for
the sake of that person, not letme do something for my sake,

(48:46):
let me do something for the sakeof that.
And that's true service.
When you're serving somebodyand it is all about that person.
What they they, what they'regetting from it, what they're
gaining from it, what they're,how they're growing from it,
what they're learning from it,it is all about that person, not
just about the one that'sgiving it to them.
That's powerful.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Cause I hate to see videos of people feeding is my
number one hated videos.
It's weird.
It's weird, but things likethat where you're like, okay,
why did you do this?
I mean for the following okay,so you went up and gave a guy

(49:26):
$1,000, yet you got 10 millionviews and way more money than
that coming back on your adrevenue.
Like, what was the purpose?
What was the purpose of doingthat?
You know I ain't trying tothrow.
You know throw stones.
I didn't mean to go out.

(49:47):
I'm trying to keep it on thepositive.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Therefore, when you do charitable deeds, do not
sound the trumpet before, as thehypocrites do in the synagogues
and in the streets, that theymay have glory for men.
Assuredly, I say to you, theyhave their reward.
It's always interesting to methat Jesus spoke the most
gangster to Christians yeah, themost like when he was putting

(50:13):
that divine thunder.
It was to the people in thesynagogues.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I just want to say it's easy a trap to fall into
because you want people to knowthat you're doing good.
You want people to know thatyou're doing good things.
Hey, look, look you know andyou forget that the one you know
, the one that really matters,is always watching.
But we forget and we want otherpeople to praise us and to say

(50:39):
oh look at Isaiah.
He did those announcements sogood.
That was the one you pulled.
I thought a lemonade stand,girl Fags, that was one one you
pulled, I thought a lemonadestand girl Vags.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, that was one of those moments I didn't see them
by the way.
No, I would have stopped.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I looked on Sunday.
Yeah, I tried to find.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Shout out to the lemonade stand.
Shout out to the lemonade stand.
Oh yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
I'm a movie nerd over here in this part and I ain't
even going to try to come upwith a movie.
But you ever notice in like Iwas thinking about what you said
about a secret agent thattypically in the movies that the
most dangerous person is theone that'll never get
recognition for being the heroin the movie, like when they're
in the army or they're in thenavy or the military.
It's like you have to bewilling to go over there and

(51:29):
know that basically you're aghost.
You'll never get rewarded forsaving this country.
You'll never get rewarded forsaving this from a nuclear
crisis, and they're like themost dangerous person and
they're like, perfectly fine,they still risked it, put their
whole life on the line to savepeople, and the people will
never know.
You'll be sitting right besidethem and they're the most lethal

(51:50):
person in the world, but you'llnever know, because they don't
want the boast, they don't wantthe accolade.
They find the satisfaction andgratification in you are good,
you are saved.
I put my life on the line tomake sure you are good, and I
used to want to be Navy SEALuntil I seen what I had to go
through to become a Navy SEAL.
I'm not built like that, andeven spirituality-wise, even

(52:13):
thinking about Pastor Jason andthis is I don't have that.
I grew up in a family household,like Isaiah and Pastor Jason,
to see ministers that got hitwith certain things, and this
may be a little selfish, but Iknow.
I too feel like I was told along time ago that I had a call
in my life, but I was runningfrom it for the simple fact of
what you did.

(52:33):
Say, though, even though Ididn't see that, I could see
that in the Bible Most peoplecalled.
They didn't have an easy life.
So people that ran and wantedto be in the leadership I'm like
I don't know what for, becausedid you not see what they had to
go through before they got tothe glory days?
And some of them still didn'teven make it.
They just had the faith to keepspeaking for other people to
see it.
And I have enough problemstalking to my mom and dad when

(52:56):
something just happened to meover here on the right and five
minutes before theirconversation I'm trying to get
myself together to talk to themabout it.
So now you want me to be goingthrough.
Whatever I'm going through, I'mmarried, we're all married at
the table.
So let's say you're goingthrough I mean a huge argument
with your wife.
Then you got to go minister toa couple and not let that affect
what you say.

(53:16):
Let's say you just had afinancial situation and you got
to go minister to somebody aboutthat financial situation and
it's like so literally you haveto learn how to carry a backpack
with your problems so you canthrow them in there, so your
hands can be free to hold upsomebody else.
And so for me I was like, yeah,I ain't built for that either.
Like I'm still a littlenarcissistic, selfish, I guess,

(53:38):
as a christian, um, but then I'mgonna be honest, though there
was no peace in running from it,um, even still, I find more joy
in carrying somebody else'sproblem trying to be there, come
on and put mine to the side andI've determined and I kind of
spoke about this on Sunday alittle bit, but I've just been
really dealing with what we havedeemed as successful, and I

(54:00):
think a lot of people havegotten more caught into showing
Instagram and showing thematerialistic things of things.
So if I don't have a wholebunch of followers listening to
what God shared or put on myheart, then I'm not successful
or I'm not really in line withGod.
If I don't have this house, ifI don't have this car, if I
don't have these thingsmaterialistically and
spiritually, I must be doingsomething wrong.
But they negate the smallsuccessful moments and accolades

(54:23):
of.
I was able to forgive somebodythat just intentionally hurt me
and I seen it coming a mile away, but just like Jesus, I was
able to be.
Like you know what Go do, whatyou're going to do, I'm still
going to go to the cross and diefor you anyway.
I'm still going to pray for you.
I'm going to pray for theperson that stuck the spear in
my side.
I'm going to pray for the personthat's nailing me to the cross
right now, slandering my nameand doing everything else, and I

(54:51):
can be that in line with Godand be in that place.
That is success in my opinion.
That is growth.
That is a whole other level ofwalking I'm still working on it,
but it's still a whole otherlevel and it produces more joy
to be able to see that insomebody and go speak to that
and free them from somethingthat's keeping them trapped for
years than it is to be able togive them money.

(55:12):
Now, I would like to be able togive them money, but to be able
to speak to a thing that wouldchange their life better, their
marriage better, their hope intheir self, release them from
depression, is so much moresuccessful and so much more
desired in my days now thanbeing able to say, oh, I got a
million followers on Instagramand I said this and it went
viral.
If I just able to say, oh, Igot a million followers on

(55:38):
instagram and I said this and itwent viral.
If I just could say I prayedfor so-and-so and they were
blessed, and I don't even haveto say it like that to say I was
able to.
I had the honor to speak tothis person.
I had the honor of knowing thisperson and they're like you
know just what you shared orprayed.
It really helped me get throughthis.
If nobody else knows and theyjust tell me that, is enough for
me.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
That's how I knew I wasn't reading my Bible enough,
because the church leaders, thebig, great leaders, they didn't
have a lot of people like anaudience around them, like when
you think about, like Elijah.
We know who Elijah is now, buthe won't stand on top of the
mountain shouting to a multitudeof people talking about you

(56:10):
know, he was living a veryprivate life, doing his ministry
.
Samuel very proper.
They hated the prophets in theBible.
You feel me?
If God, if I would have hadanointing, it would have ended
like Moses.
Moses started off strong.
Somebody messed him up.
He hit that rock.
God was like hey, buddy, youcan't make it over here Like I

(56:32):
got that Moses.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Is that?

Speaker 4 (56:39):
sacrilegious Isaiah's study.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Bible.
That was the translation.
Don't buy my study Bible.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
You don't need it, but to your point though.
I heard Martin Luther King'sdaughter say this about him my
father today is one of the mostcelebrated men in the world, but
when he was alive he was themost hated.
So you think about the prophetsand those in the Bible when
they were alive.
We glorify them now because wesaw the whole story, but when
they were living it, peoplehated them.

(57:09):
And we're like nah, I can't bearthat weight of being hated.
They weren't looking for thefame, they weren't looking for
the fortune, they were justlooking to be in alignment with
christ.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
So pastor jason, this is gonna be anybody feel free
to to hop in, but I'm justthinking about the what?
Exactly what chris said.
But the year after year afteryear of you got your own
problems, you got your ownissues, you got your own

(57:39):
struggles, you got your ownwhatever it is anxieties, and
then you're also listening toeverybody else's, you're
preaching to them.
You're you're preaching to them.
You're like just a year, youhear so much over the last few
years of people talking aboutburnout and people talking about
um, you know that type of thingwhere just at some point they
hit the end of the rope and thenthey got to take, you know,

(58:02):
some really long sabbatical andget away from everything, and
that that type of thing and um,which I've never known you to do
, and like, how do you, how doyou handle that?

Speaker 3 (58:17):
I don't know that I always handle it well.
Um one, I have a lot of peoplepraying for me.
Um, I'm thankful for my mom anddad that offer counsel that I
lean on a lot.
I'm thankful for people thatI've talked to when I'm in those
stages of of it becoming toomuch.
Um, I, I, I hesitate to evenlike share, um, because it's

(58:45):
really the formula is the graceof God.
Um, I look back on it sometimesand I'm like there's no way
that I should have made itthrough that or there's no way
that I.
But in all honesty I mentionedthis earlier when I was talking
about my dad and hopefully y'allknow this well enough to y'all
know me and I don't say this Iam so thankful that I love the

(59:08):
Lord.
That is, that is my biggestflex today.
Is that I truly I want to honorthe Lord.
That is my biggest flex todayis that I truly I want to honor
the Lord.
I want to.
I love the Lord, I love God.
With all of the mistakes andwith all of the failures, I'm so
grateful for God and from ayoung kid, I felt like just

(59:33):
otherworldly, like I, just Ilove him and I'm so grateful for
him, and I know that is a giftfrom God.
And today and I say this verymuch, like David said all this
other stuff you can take and hecan have it back anytime he
wants it.
If he wants it today it's his.
But I just don't want to.
I don't want he is, but I justdon't want to lose his presence.

(59:54):
I don't want to lose his voice.
I don't want to lose the factthat I get to hear him talk to
me and I get to hear him, I getto be in communion with him.
Those are the things that meanmore to me than anything else
and, honestly, that's what ithas kept.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
The time with the Lord, the time in His presence.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
That wasn't enough of a formula answer for you.
I'm sorry, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Well, I mean, I'm guessing those things follow the
love you're saying that youhave for God.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Everything that I do on Sundays, I don't love't love
it and I think that's.
I love the Lord and that's anassignment and I don't, I don't.
I say I don't love it, I enjoyit.
I'm thankful that God asked meto do it, but my identity is not
in it.
My I don't feel like if I stopdoing that, my world's gonna

(01:00:49):
fall apart.
I don't feel that way.
I love my family.
I'm so grateful that I get togo home to my family every day.
I get to go home to a strongrelationship with the Lord where
I can lay in a floor with thecurtains closed and I'm happy
with myself and I'm happy withGod and those are the things
that really that's where my lifeis built and I'm thankful.

(01:01:11):
Even my personality like thefact that I'm more introverted
than I am extroverted that hasbeen a gift to me, because I go
out to give and I come back tobe refueled and be filled up,
and I think that's a gift.
And I know in my life and Ishare this a lot with the people

(01:01:31):
around me I know in my lifewhere I am getting um, where I'm
I'm getting, I'm giving outmore than I'm filled up.
It's when I am easily irritablewhen stuff gets on my nerves
really fast.
I am easily irritable, whetherit be with my family, with my
kids, with my wife, with peoplethat I love.

(01:01:53):
When small things get on mynerves, I immediately know you
need to shut yourself in a roomfor an hour or so and you need
to shut the door and getyourself back right.
And I think that's withmaturity too.
I'm learning, I've learned andam learning my on the gas tank

(01:02:13):
when it says you're close to E,that is it for me.
When I'm easily irritable, Iknow that at that moment I'm
open to temptation, I'm open tothe encroachment of bitterness,
I'm open to being led to makeemotional decisions, to being
led to make emotional decisions,and I'm learning.
That is when I'm getting closeto E.

(01:02:34):
That's my.
You need to feel back up, andso I think for me, that's the
burnout.
The burnout prevention islearning your own signals of
okay, you're not as filled up asyou need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Yeah, I think one thing I've been praying for, not
only this church but just likethe local church in general, is
that the five-fold ministry isin full effect because it shares
the weight and the burden whenyou've got the evangelists doing
what they need to do, and thepastor and the teacher and the
prophet and the apostle, likeall of them are moving at once
it just makes it so much easierto kind of share that load and

(01:03:13):
that weight, because it's true,that's how God orchestrated it
together.
The podcast the six finger onthat, because, like to me, to
your point, I don't think thepastor should be concerned with
the branding.
Yeah, that's the evangelist'sjob.
Now, that might not be biblical, but that's where I put it.
The marketing I kind of put itin the evangelist's one, you

(01:03:35):
feel me.
But the pastor might not haveto be the lead of the
hospitality.
That's not their position.
The prophet shouldn't have to bethe one that's leading
curriculum and teaching it.
That's not a part of their giftand that's the teacher's job.
You feel me.
So I feel like there is a gracethat the Lord has given us in
the five-fold ministry to say,hey, you don't need to be

(01:03:56):
concerned with it all, I'vegiven you a body to work with so
good man.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
That's great, isaiah I think is that episode.
That's powerful man.
Well said Grace is sufficient.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Amen, well said Amen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
And I want to add to that too, like I'm not taking
away you said that.
Well, I'm not taking away fromwhat people do in branding.
I just I agree.
I just don't think it's our jobto do, but there are people
that are gifted to do that andthat's very, very well said.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Great job Also with this.
Okay, here's a pet peeve.
Let's get into episode petpeeve Okay, when pastors quote
themselves and then on their ownprofile put a dash and their

(01:04:47):
name.
As if you couldn't just makethe post without the quotation
or the sign, and that's foreverybody listening.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
If you got an issue with that, you text the pod.
This is RJ.
I check social media a coupletimes a week.
Feel free to hit me up, rjMills.
Oh wow, oh wow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
That man dropped his Addy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
That is ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
It bothers me.
I think you need to callpeople's names.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
You have somebody in your heart.
Three people popped in my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Well, that's the episode, guys, not the episode.
Guys, not the episode.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Go ahead, Chris.
Again, I don't know if it's the2.30 time frame, but I feel the
weight of what we talked about.
We can't go without a prayer.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Amen, go ahead To end it out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
RJ, you want to do it Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Father, lord, we thank you for this day.
We thank you for uh, I thankyou for these brothers that we
get to sit around and talk, talkabout you, talk about your word
and talk about the kingdom andlord, we pray that everybody
that's listening, I pray, praythat this be edifying.
Lord, I pray for the people inleadership, the people in

(01:06:17):
ministry.
Father, I pray that you wouldcontinue to give them grace.
I pray that you would give themendurance.
I pray that you would give themstrength in their mind, in
their walk.
Lord, and I pray for thecongregants.
I pray for the other people inthe church, the body, lord, and
I pray for the congregants.
I pray for the other people inthe church, the body, lord, I

(01:06:40):
pray that you would strengthenthem.
Lord, I pray that we would helpone another.
I pray that you would give us aheart, lord, to love each other
and to forgive each other andto walk with each other.
And, lord, I pray that youwould continue to strengthen our
heart for you.
Lord, I pray that you continueto increase in our lives.
Lord, and I pray also pray forthe person, lord, that text in.
I pray for his girlfriend.
I pray that you would heal herheart and all those involved,

(01:07:06):
lord, that might have been hurtfrom that church.
Lord, I pray that you willbring healing there.
I pray that you'll bringrestoration and I pray that she
would now be able to ministerwith those same things, lord,
that you healed with her, thatshe will be able to turn around
and help heal others that's beenthrough the same thing, lord,
and that she will see thepurpose, lord, and what she had
to go through, and I pray thatyou would take over Lord in

(01:07:30):
their lives and I pray that theywould walk with you, lord, for
the rest of eternity.
Lord, we thank you for this day.
I pray that you'd be with usthe rest of this week and we
love you and we praise you InJesus' name, amen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Amen.
Thank y'all for listening.
See y'all next week.