February 19, 2025 • 38 mins
Ever wondered if your open floor plan is more of a hassle than a haven? Discover why Bree Banfield and Lauren Li think it might be time to rethink this modern design staple. We explore the hidden pitfalls of open layouts, from echoing acoustics to the woeful wafts of last night’s dinner. With a fresh perspective on furniture placement and clever solutions like sliding doors, we invite you to rethink how you can achieve both openness and functionality in your home.
Creating a home that caters to family dynamics often means reimagining spaces to balance togetherness and privacy. Let's talk about how broken plan designs can keep the family connected while giving everyone their own space to breathe. We spotlight the value of thoughtful design choices, like separating toilet areas in bathrooms to boost both privacy and comfort. As families grow, so do their needs, and we highlight intelligent decor strategies to foster interaction without compromising personal space.
Why wait for a "forever home" when you can live fully in the now? Join us as we challenge the notion of designing with resale in mind, urging you to tailor your home to today's tastes rather than tomorrow's market. Whether it's a bold pink kitchen or an eclectic mix of decor, personal expression should reign supreme. Hear stories of how individual style triumphs over conventional trends, and why investing in what you love leads to a more meaningful and authentic living space.
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends anddesigners me, b Banfield and me,
Lauren Li, with some amazingguests appearances along the way
, and today we're going to bediscussing what we consider to
be bad interior design advice,which may be controversial at
(00:20):
times.
Who knows, everyone hasdifferent opinions on these
things.
These are just things that wethink don't work or should be
rethought about, I think.
And while we have you, if youwant to jump into the show notes
, you'll find links there to thethings that Lauren and I do in
the real world For me.
You'll find a link to subscribeto my newsletter to keep up to
(00:41):
date with things we're doingthis year, which is bespoke
packages sorry, more curatedrather than bespoke packages to
help you design your home onyour own, with a little bit of
help from me, as well as someshort courses coming up later in
the year.
So fun and for any designersout there listening, we are
(01:04):
doing the conversation circle,which is a small and tall group,
so if you want to be with yourown people, like-minded, we all
get you.
Um, yeah, come and join.
And yeah, again, there's a linkin the show notes.
So this is an interesting one,I reckon, br, because we have
opinions, we always haveopinions.
(01:26):
I think you know we have a bitof experience, you know behind
us when it comes to interiordesign and some things you know
seem like a great idea and thenwhen you live in it, you realise
, oh, that's so great Not reallyworking for me.
I didn't even think about thesethings.
(01:46):
So I think the first one, for me, the number one thing that I
think is bad interior designadvice, is open.
Find spaces.
Oh, controversial, mostly, justbecause nearly all of us have
them.
Right, nearly all of us, noteveryone, but I guess,
particularly if you're in anewer home or a home that was
built even just in the last 15years or more, you probably have
(02:11):
an open plan living, dining,kitchen, at least.
Right, definitely.
And even if it's a renovation,you know, we probably have seen
this before you know a gorgeouslittle worker's cottage with
this big box on the back whichholds the kitchen, dining and
living.
And the reason why I don'tthink it works is because of
(02:32):
well, there's a few things,there's acoustics, so it gets
very noisy when we're all inthat same space.
You've got the cooking, you'vegot the dishwasher whirring,
you've got the range hood.
It's very noisy.
Somebody is trying to watch tvand then somebody over here is
trying to do some work and it'ssort of like a bit of study area
and then it's just like veryoverwhelming.
(02:56):
Yeah, I think that, um, I cansee where the merit came from in
open plan.
I think the way it's designedis what's really important.
So you can have the idea of anopen plan, but the TV room might
be open to the dining andkitchen, but you've got big,
giant sliding doors that close,for instance, when you don't
(03:19):
want it to be open.
So I think it comes down, forme, it comes down to
functionality and if you arerenovating, sometimes you do
feel like you want that sense ofspace.
I think this has become a thingin Australian interiors, isn't
it?
Having a sense of space wherethat's why they're like oh, we
want to open this up and we wantto, or we want to be feeling
connected to outside, andsometimes the only way to do
(03:40):
that is to open up a back roomso that the kitchen can see
through to outside.
But it has to be done well andif you just kind of create this
big open room, it can be reallyhard to furnish as well in terms
of the loud of the furniture,acoustics, as you said.
And then for me it's alsodecoration, in terms of paint
color or wallpaper or wallfinishes, whatever you're doing,
(04:01):
and even flooring.
Where that stops and startsLike if that's all overlooked,
it becomes bad design.
Right, you're right.
Like a lot of the time I'veseen clients they're not lacking
in space, but they can't figureout their furniture placement
and they've got this sort of bigopen area and it just wasn't
quite done.
You know you need to just dropin on your floor plan the
(04:23):
furniture.
Where's the TV going to be?
You've got windows everywhere.
Then how do we?
It's just like basic, like weall watch TV still.
Yeah, so it's also lipstick isalso smell, because when you're
cooking in the kitchen sometimesyou don't want to smell like
the whole house, like a fishcurry or whatever.
(04:44):
Yeah, I think it is hard though, isn't it?
I find the kitchen's thetrickiest spot.
I think that we can easilycreate like alcoves or rooms
that adjoin, that can feel a bitmore open plan when it comes to
, say, like a TV room or asitting room and a dining room.
But I think that the dangerwith the closed off kitchen is
(05:04):
the person that's cooking anddare I say, it is often female,
I know that's changing feelslike they're kind of like locked
away in this little room ontheir own cooking.
So I think it's trying to workout how to make sure it doesn't
feel like that.
Right, so true, and I mean tohave to be, to be fair.
Um, if you are organizing thespace and if you're planning it
right, the smells are stillgoing to come through.
(05:31):
So it's a bit of a hard one toresolve.
You actually just need a reallygood extraction, exactly
Rangewood.
I've seen houses that there isthis big box on the back and
they've got all of this space inthe middle of the floor.
They're like what should we dowith this space?
I'm like I've got no of thisspace in the middle of the floor
.
They're like what should we dowith this space?
I'm like, yes, no idea.
They're like so much should weput a little table thing here?
I'm like it's kind of not bigenough for that, but it's just
(05:51):
like what is it for?
No, I refer to it.
I've same thing.
Many times have I been into aclient's place and it has been
actually renovated, you know,not so long ago, but it needs
some work.
And I sort of refer to thoseweird spaces as the dance floor.
Well, here's your dance floor,yeah, exactly.
(06:11):
Or sometimes Just this bigweird empty spot yeah, they're
like this is where wrestlinghappens, like if you've got
little kids, yeah, and the thingis like okay, I get it.
Family homes do need flowthrough spaces, but there are
those moments where you go Idon't even know how to resolve
this for you unless we start,you know, moving a wall or
(06:33):
whatever it is, because it feelsit actually feels wrong, and
sometimes it's reallyfrustrating because another
space needed that space yeah,exactly, do you know what I mean
?
And you can't move it there.
Yes, you've got this pokeylittle study or whatever, and
then all of this wasted spacethat you know no one really
thought about what it would befor, and it's so great to have
(06:54):
that feeling of spaciousness,but when it kind of echoes in
there, that doesn't feel like aspace to hang out.
No, like that's the thing withthe noise and the echo, it's
harder to make it lived in andcozy and more like a home.
It's going to always feel alittle bit empty.
It's much harder to addcharacter as well, isn't it.
True.
I remember this client.
She wanted her family to all betogether.
(07:17):
What would happen is herteenage kids would go off in
their room because it was suchan uncomfortable space to be.
I was like, how sad is thatthat they can't spend time
together?
Yeah, it does have impact.
It really does.
It definitely has impact.
Yeah, she was upset about it.
And actually, in particular,that age group I think sometimes
we think about particularly ifyou're you often will have young
(07:38):
kids right when you renovate orbuy a new home or build a new
home, and so you are thinkingabout the fact that you will be
with them in that space.
But it does change a lot asthey get older and spend that
time in their room.
So you do want it to beinviting and a space that you
want to sit at.
So you do need to be thinkingabout those change of life
moments when you're designingfor a family too.
(07:59):
I think that's really important.
I suppose what I would suggest,other than that broken plan, is
what's known as a broken plan.
So that's more like an L-shapedspace, or maybe there's like a
courtyard.
Yeah, I love an L-shaped space.
Yeah, so you can still beconnected.
That's right.
My favourite design actually isaround like more like a C-shape
(08:19):
, so, yeah, you have that kindof like courtyard-y space.
You still have connection tothe outdoors and a visual to
outside and it's connected.
But yeah, as you said, broken.
I like that.
It's good.
Yeah, not always possible onceyou have an open plan, but there
are ways to help it.
Well, I think that's.
You know, with open plan it'slike the designing is left up to
(08:42):
the end user.
It's left up to the end user,it's left up to the homeowner
and they don't know how toorganise their furniture in a
way.
That's sort of all left up tothem.
You know, sometimes you do needa bit of help.
Yeah, I would say that I'veworked on open plan in terms of
decoration, so that you knowfootprint's already there.
I've just finished the houseactually, and it does have a
(09:04):
very beautiful, warm feelingabout it.
I mean, it's helped thatthere's some great materials
there, but it has.
We have had to delineate pretty.
Basically, there's the kitchen,there's the dining room,
there's the living room, but Iguess then it comes down to
clever decorating in terms ofthe layers.
You know where the rug goes,how big it is, what sort of sofa
you have.
You know, like I feel like thesofa needs to be a little bit
(09:27):
more kind of, I guess, creatinga division in the room for the
living room as well.
So maybe it doesn't work aswell to have like a single sofa
and, uh, individual chairs.
It probably feels like it kindof grounds the space to have a
much bigger kind of, you know,curb sofa or something like that
.
So, yeah, I think it's justapproaching it.
When you are stuck with it, forwant of a better word, it's
(09:47):
about making sure that you'vegot kind of like things going on
in there.
That kind of grounds it anddoesn't feel like this big kind
of open showroom kind of vibe.
Definitely, I think this clientthat I'm thinking of in
particular you know all of thefurniture was pushed to the edge
of the wall.
All of the furniture was pushedto the edge of the wall.
Ah, yes, nothing worse.
It's nothing worse and just youcan't have a conversation.
(10:09):
That's why it felt like such anuncomfortable place for her
family to spend time together.
So it is exactly what you said.
It's back in the right size,the right scale sofa and the
right type of armchairs orwhatever, so it flows correctly.
I mean it sounds like we'retalking about really
insignificant things, but Ithink you know when a family
won't come together and that'sreally upsetting for her.
(10:31):
It actually does me a lot.
Yeah, no, I agree, it candefinitely impact.
You've written one, lauren,which I actually agree with too,
which is kind of about openplan, but open plan in the
bathroom that includes a toiletin the open plan bathroom.
I couldn't agree more.
It's probably one of the thingsI hate the most.
(10:53):
I mean, sometimes I get it.
Maybe there's not enough room,en-suites can be really tricky,
but there's ways.
Like you know, you create likea cubicle, like a shower cubicle
, with the toilet in it.
You would have seen that donein hotels.
It's a great example of how toseparate it, because when it's
just there in the room, likeit's not A, they're ugly, true,
and B.
(11:13):
When we talked about smellsbefore, maybe this is also kind
of related to this room and it'skind of right next to a toilet.
When it's your own suite, yeah,and God forbid, you also have a
bath.
So if you're having a bath, thetoilet's right there, yeah, well
(11:33):
, we have had, you know,situations with and without, and
when we did our renovation, wedefinitely made sure that there
was a door to the toilet.
You know, when you've gotlittle kids and stuff plus, it's
nice to have this door.
It's like a minute of privacy.
Oh God, yes, you need that room.
Sometimes the only privacy youhave all day is going to the
bathroom, it's true.
(11:54):
But even if you're visiting afriend or something and you're
in their bathroom and you feellike you're really far from the
door I don't know if that's justme, but I feel like somebody
could just burst in no, it is athing.
It's definitely a thing.
Yeah, because you don't knowwhat their family dynamics like.
Maybe they all just like openthe door, you're in there, like,
yeah, I know, you know there'sno lock.
(12:14):
Actually, let's add that in havea lock on your bathroom door.
Yeah, can I tell you a story?
So our bathroom, it's all onebig bathroom with a toilet and
you know the toilet's far fromthe door.
There is a lock, but we don'thave the key for that lock, so
we've had to hide it with stickytape, because if you lock it
and close the door, we can't getin.
So we don't use the lock.
(12:35):
So anyway, you know, I'm in thebathroom, I'm using the toilet
and I've got a littlethree-year-old toddler who
walked past, opened up the door,swung it wide open and we had
one of my Indy's friends overfor a play date and she saw me
sitting there on the toilet.
She did not need to see that.
At least it wasn't like youknow, 10 dinner guests off in
(12:56):
the distance or somethingExactly.
Oh, it's the worst.
Hi, hey, everyone.
I was like oh, my God, god, I'mso sorry you had to see me so
you were tired.
That's awkward.
Yes, no, we definitely needsome delineation there.
Yes, a screen at the minimum orsome kind of screenage at the
minimum, right, just, yeah, Ithink it's good.
(13:19):
I think another one and I daresay that we would agree with
this one is people think to makea small room feel bigger, they
will paint it white.
Oh gosh, it's such a myth,isn't it?
It is.
It does not work.
People do this all the time,yeah, and then they regret it, I
feel like.
So the only thing that sort ofmakes something feel bigger in a
(13:39):
room, if it's to do with color,is receding colors.
Right, we've touched on thisbefore.
So you can actually have areally dark room that's like a
midnight blue or something, andbecause that color recedes, it
can make the room feel bigger,even though it's not white and
bright.
And I think that that's theother.
I think there's two things it'smaking the room feel bigger and
(13:59):
the other thing people thinkthat that's the other.
I think there's two things it'smaking the room feel bigger and
the other thing people think isthat, oh, it's a dim room with
not a lot of light, so we'llpaint it white.
And that's probably my, that'sprobably my favorite bad design
advice, because it's it's theworst, like.
So, as soon as you paint ashadowy room white, what do you
get?
Gray, shadowy, no character, itfeels cold.
So grey, shadowy, no character,it feels cold.
(14:24):
So as soon as you add some kindof color to it, at least
there's something in the shadow,um, I say, I say to clients or
anyone that asks me about thatembrace the moodiness of that
room, bring in beautifullighting, create moments with
that.
You're never gonna, unless youbreak a hole in the ceiling,
you're not gonna get moresunlight in there because
there's a white wall slightlyreflecting the dim sunlight
coming from the other side ofthe room.
(14:45):
It just doesn't work that way.
So that's my.
I kind of get all cross on myhigh horse about that one.
I think it's just because aswell you know the impact that
color can have and it is just sobeautiful.
And also, I think that there isthis obsession with making a
room seem big.
I'm like why, yes, like, ifit's a small room, lean into it,
(15:07):
as you said, lean into thatcraziest.
It's not going to feel big atall if it's a small room.
And I also think that, um,having less things in there
people like don't put too muchstuff in it well, I actually
think that can make it feelsmaller.
It's almost like you can createa few little moments in the
room, that kind of just fill itup a little bit and create more
(15:28):
points of interest, maybe.
Um, yeah, yeah it's.
I think that's the same thing aswhat I was saying about the,
the dark room.
I guess you're saying embraceit and make it cozy and and you
know, not cluttered, but likeinteresting with elements,
rather than just like a, a smallroom that has nothing going on,
and then that's all.
You focus on the fact that it'ssmall, yeah, kind of distract
(15:50):
from the fact that it's smallwith the pretty things and
making it interesting.
So you're not going, oh, that's, that's a tiny room.
Instead you're going, wow,that's a cool room.
And then you might go, oh, it'ssmall, but hey, doesn't this
work, whereas if you removeeverything, you just go, that's
a really small room.
That's pretty boring.
Well, I think you know it'strue, because if you um, you
(16:12):
know, if you're moving house andyou see the bedroom and you're
like, oh, that's a small bedroom, but then when you put a bed in
there and your bed's a tub, soactually it's not that small
there's something about it beingempty that makes it feel small.
Well, it gives it a point ofreference, doesn't it Exactly?
And sometimes people think asmall room I'm going to put
small furniture pieces, a smallsofa, a small coffee table.
(16:32):
It's actually.
No, actually a bigger sofathat's just in proportion
actually makes the room feelbigger than lots of small pieces
as well.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a.
It can be a visual thing too,like if you I don't know, it can
be like what's on the floorthat can make something look
bigger is better than trying tomake it look bigger with a white
(16:53):
wall, like it's the making sureyour rug is proportionally
right to your furniture and theroom, whereas I feel like you
can actually make a room looksmaller by having a too small
rug.
You know how it sort of breakseverything up visually.
Yeah, yeah, it looks kind ofpiddly and it floats in the
space.
You want to make sure that youknow the furniture sits on the
rug and it feels like a muchmore expensive sort of Be
(17:15):
generous with what you put in aroom, even if it's small, I
think is a good way to look atit.
I love that.
What about natural stone?
I don't want natural stone.
I feel like we've talked aboutthis a few things, I think,
because we love it, right, welove natural stone.
But yeah, that's the thing,that's it.
I think people get reallyscared of it, really terrified
(17:36):
of it, and I think I don't know.
I think the key is to do yourresearch.
It's not an indestructiblematerial.
It does take a bit of care andmost things aren't right.
All the good things aren't.
I mean, if you want somethingindestructible, I was about to
say the things that areworthwhile.
Yeah, you know it's come fromnature.
It's very hard wearing, it isvery strong and all stones are
(17:58):
the same.
So you know you can research astone that fits the way that you
live in your home and you knowlike a quartzite is more dense
than a marble and you know atravertine is extremely soft I
would probably really hesitateto specify that for a kitchen
bench for anyone, so they're notall the same, but that's so
true can get a bit frustratingsometimes when clients are like
(18:20):
I don't want actual stone, weneed to unpack it a bit.
Yeah, you need to educate alittle bit, but also I think I
guess it also comes down to theacceptance of that beauty isn't
necessarily perfection.
So it's like stone and timberand all those beautiful natural
materials aren't going to stayas perfect as they are when they
(18:41):
first come into your home.
But that's actually what makesthem beautiful, that's they're
going to evolve with you overtime and and become more
beautiful as they kind of age.
And I think that's that's theimportance of kind of
understanding that but alsoaccepting that that's how it
works.
Don't you think like, becausesome people just don't love that
totally and I think what you'resaying?
(19:01):
It really underpins all whatwe're saying about interior
design advice, wanting somethingperfect, yeah, fresh out the
box, perfect, like.
What does that even mean?
And sometimes you really haveto challenge your clients a
little bit and say you know, um,that doesn't always mean
beautiful.
A painter tells a story, it hassoul, you know, it captures some
(19:22):
sort of feeling that'sbeautiful, and they've never
really thought about that beforeperhaps.
Yeah, which actually kind ofleads into one that is further
down our list, but I'm going tojump in and say it now and that
is because it also relates alittle bit back to, you know,
designing through families.
You know, changing is you and Iboth work on family homes quite
(19:43):
often, and one of the thingspeople do kind of get a bit
stuck on sometimes is oh well,we don't want to invest in XXXX
until the kids are bigger, older, not babies, not toddlers, and
then it's sort of just.
I feel like your life or theway you want to live kind of
gets put off a little bit, and Idon't think it's necessary.
(20:05):
I think you can still do greatdesign and make a home feel
beautiful and still invest inpieces and have young children
and I will be challenged on thisand I know not all children are
the same.
I know that my first child wasamazing and never did anything,
and my second he's the terrordestroyed, maybe a couple of
(20:26):
things, but they were actuallynot, let's say I won't say cheap
, let's say affordable anaffordable coffee table that was
veneer and what he did becauseit was veneer I couldn't fix,
whereas potentially, if it hadbeen a bit more of an investment
piece, we could have fixed itlike a solid timber or something
as an example.
(20:46):
Well, I agree it can befrustrating then.
Frustrating, I understand, butI feel like you don't want to
live your life on hold for thatmoment, that everything's going
to be great and everything.
And I feel like that almostbrings me to the next point,
which, again, maybe noteveryone's going to agree with,
but I don't think we shouldstrive to live in a forever home
(21:09):
.
Oh yeah, because you know wecan plan as much as we can for
the future.
And you know I've had clientsthat have adult children and
they're like, oh great, we canuse some really beautiful
fabrics that we don't have touse outdoor fabric for the sofa,
we can use a lovely whatever.
And they're like, oh no good, Imight have grandkids one day.
Like I've got a client who'sliterally bought all of these
clothes for her grandchild thathasn't been born.
(21:31):
Oh no, yeah no, she's so funny,she's so funny, it's on its way
now, though, so that's good,but, you know, planning for what
might happen as well, like,just, I feel that life changes,
our tastes change, our lifestylechanges.
You never know what couldhappen around the corner.
Live in the now, and that's justmaybe me a little bit, and I
(21:54):
think people can obsess about it.
Yeah, they can, yeah, and Ithink it actually almost feeds
back to, um, you know, the otherthing that, again, we would
have talked about, which isthinking about oh, when I sell.
So for me, like, I like, I like, if a client talks about a
forever home because for me thatmeans they're not worrying
(22:14):
about when they sell, true,you're 100% right that you can
kind of go the other way with itand kind of think that, um,
you're continually going well,I'm going to be here forever, so
I've got to take into accountthis, this, this, this and this,
which might be just too muchfor one home to handle, right,
yeah, and maybe just like okay,I'm here now.
That might happen in the future.
We'll think about it and what'simportant, to integrate into it
(22:36):
now.
I guess that's kind of our jobas well is to have that
conversation and go.
Well, you know, that'spotentially a long way away and
by then maybe then you'd beadapting this.
But we can think about it andplan for it.
But it doesn't have to be doneright now so that it lasts you
for the next 50 years.
But I love the forever home froma client because it means
(22:58):
they're not going to go.
I need everything to be whiteand neutral because maybe we'll
sell it one day.
That is the worst thing youcould say to a designer.
I know, and also I mean I cango on a rant about the whole.
You know, decorating or havinga home that you think you might
sell, unless you are literallyselling it next month, don't
(23:19):
even think about that.
You live here now.
It's your home.
You want it to be your home.
You don't want it to be someplace that you live in until you
move on to the next one.
And then what?
When you move on to the nextone, are you going to be
thinking about that again?
When do you ever get to just go?
This is my house, yes, exactly,and I love.
I've said before, like pinkkitchen, I'm going to have my
pink kitchen.
(23:39):
You know, like, if that'swhatever it is for you, you just
do that You're investing somuch in it.
You might as well make itsomething that you love.
Yeah, absolutely.
What's another thing?
Oh, I do like this one too,lauren, that we've written down
here Always matching, everythingmatching.
Make sure everything matches.
I feel like we'd probably sayalmost the complete opposite to
(24:00):
that.
Right, I think things shouldcomplement each other Exactly.
But as soon as you doeverything matching, then you
kind of lose the fact that it'sa design in the first place too.
It's like anybody couldprobably do everything matching,
couldn't they?
Definitely?
And I mean it just does looklike straight out of a showroom,
which is what it is Catalogue,catalogue, catalogue, decorating
(24:21):
.
Yeah, you know, and I thinkthat was something in the past
where you would have bought adining table with the matching
chairs that go with the matchingbuffet, and you'd even, maybe
even, get a coffee table in thatsame.
You know, all the same tipperand everything, the bed and the
dresser and the bedside, the bedand the bedside.
Yes, it's like a one-stop shopand you're so right, it's about
(24:44):
having it coordinated.
Uh, and you want your home totell a story a little bit about
you, express yourself, and whenyou're buying something straight
out of the catalog.
You just don't get that well.
All you're doing is selling alook that you purchased from a
brand it's got nothing to dowith you at all, in a way.
No, and I think that also leadsinto another one, which you
(25:05):
need everything done at once.
So it's sort of you know you'regetting that done, it's all
done, we need it done.
It's like, well, I think,interesting spaces.
They kind of evolve over timeand they add to them when you're
rearranging things around.
It's not static, it's not done,and you never touch it again
like that.
Um, that's so true.
(25:25):
I find that too.
Even, um, I think artwork's oneof the ones that's always a bit
tricky to.
You know, it's nice to sort ofaspire to okay, this is the
house and this is, this is whatwe want done, and then we want
to be able to go okay, great,ticked, tick, box done.
But I think as you work throughthat with a client, you realize
that sometimes you're lookingfor a piece that hasn't
(25:45):
presented itself yet.
And I think artwork's a reallygood example where you know I
can search everywhere for theright piece and it's not there.
But that doesn't mean we won'tsee it in three months, six
months or whatever.
And I guess the flip side ofthat is making sure you allow
your house to evolve, and Ithink that kind of ties back to
if everything's matching.
It doesn't kind of allow forthat, does it Like you want
(26:08):
things to be able to come and goin your home as you change or
your family changes and it stillworks?
Yeah, I don't know.
Evolving homes is good, bigtick to an evolving home.
I like that and what you sortof mentioned about artwork.
Then I have a bit of a maybeupside down take on this.
But I think a lot of the timewe're told splurge on your sofa.
(26:30):
That is the piece you shouldsplurge on.
But I would argue, splurge onartwork instead.
So let me give you an example.
Yeah, exactly this lady that Imet just last week.
She is so gorgeous and lovely.
She um has moved downsized, um,unfortunately her husband
(26:51):
passed away a few years ago, soit's just her.
She entertains, she's superlovely and very social.
It is not a priority for her tohave two really comfortable
sofas because she sits in herown armchair.
So I sort of turn it on itshead and said why don't we just
not invest in the sofas, likewe're going to get something
that looks nice but it's notgoing to be sat in it's just not
(27:15):
only with her guests and we'llspend on her armchair, but the
artwork and those day-poolpieces and the lighting that
really make the space feel good.
So I think we can get a bitobsessed with having to spend a
lot and these days we think thatyou can get a really great sofa
without having to spend in thetens of thousands.
Yeah Well, you can.
(27:36):
I mean, even finding greatvintage sofas is a good option.
If you don't want to invest interms of money in a sofa, you
might be able to still find agreat vintage one that isn't
cheap.
I guess for me you've just gotto watch where you go.
Don't overinvest, as you said.
Make sure the budget goes whereit's needed, but also don't
(27:59):
skimp on it, because it also canruin a room like you wouldn't
do that, but like if you'redoing it on your own and you go,
oh, we don't need an expensivesofa, but you buy something
that's a bit cheap, even if it'snot being used a lot.
It can actually change the waythe room feels, because
sometimes you can just tell it'snot right.
So I think vintage is a goodoption.
Yeah, but you know what I thinkyou know, back in the day, when
(28:20):
we were up and coming in 20years ago or so, like you,
really, there were not a lot ofum sofas that were just imported
from china, you know.
Now you've got, you know.
No, that's so true.
Yeah, they were all made inaustralia and which is fantastic
, and I 100% endorse that andsupport it whenever I can.
But sometimes, you know, forthis client, the, for an example
(28:42):
, she doesn't need sofas.
Yes, she's not going to sit inthem ever.
She's like I think you shouldhave designed a room for her
with just the one arm chair andjust a little table, just like a
really plush rug or something,and just amazing artwork
everywhere.
Yeah, and just sculptures andartwork, and just like a gallery
that she sits in with her wine.
(29:03):
She's so gorgeous.
You know you've got EllisonStudios.
You know they're really coolsofas and they're at a Pretty
reasonable price point.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we're not saying, go andbuy the cheapest, but we're
saying, like you know, stick tothings that may be a bit more
affordable where you need to,and that's sort of the high-low
factor right when you create aroom.
(29:25):
Yeah, totally, and I think itcreates more interest often too.
But it's just being budgetsmart.
Yeah, put the money where youneed to put it, and art's always
a good investment.
Art is never a bad investment,in my opinion.
There you are sitting,surrounded by artwork, your
little backdrop there, love it.
(29:47):
Well, I've heard people bang onabout this one saying, in your
kitchen, the sink shall never bein the island bench, and I
think that's bad advice becauseit depends on how you cook, it
depends on the architecture ofthe space.
Sometimes there really is nochoice but to put it there, and
plus, it's a kitchen, is it notfor cooking?
I mean, yes, we dine in there.
(30:08):
I'm a bit more relaxed on thosekind of rules.
I think so too.
I kind of have seen it donewhere it is a mistake for sure,
especially when you knowsometimes there's the tap that,
no matter how gently you turn iton, it sprays water everywhere,
and so, like you know, you'resitting at the island bench and
the tap gets turned on and youget a shower.
(30:30):
Oh my God.
Yeah, that's so annoying, I'veseen that happen.
But yeah, I, yeah, I thinkyou've got to be realistic.
Sometimes it comes down to thebest layout and sometimes the
best layout is also the sinkgoes in the island bench.
What I will say about badpositioning in the island bench?
I hate it when they're right inthe middle, because if, for
(30:51):
example sorry, I'm getting on myhigh horse slightly the kitchen
that we have here is quite abig kitchen, so it should be
very functional, but the sink isbeing put kind of right in the
middle of this beautiful big,long bench, and so then it
immediately breaks it up and inthe end, instead of having like
all this great space to work inand cook, I end up in like one
(31:15):
little corner next to the sinkand down.
The other end is generallywhere everyone just puts their
sheets, just puts stuff, and sothe sink would have been like
just a bit like just give melike one more cupboard the other
direction, perfect, anyway.
So I think it's less about itbeing in the island and more
about where is it in the islandin relationship to everything
(31:37):
else.
That's my yeah, and that youmake sure the chat doesn't give
everyone a shower.
Yeah, I mean those every dangthings.
I can really just annoy you.
Oh yeah, because they're not.
They are actually.
They're not really littlethings in the scheme of it.
If you use your kitchen morethan once a day, which probably
most people would like, ifyou're there for breakfast,
(31:59):
maybe lunch, most likely dinnermost nights um, yeah, it impacts
the whole way you kind of liveand it also impacts how your
kitchen functions and looks solike if we've got everything
gathering at one end of thebench because it looks like
there's lots of room there, thatkind of drives me a little bit
crazy.
I get that there's always setdown space and things get put
there, but like I think it's aninvitation, when there's this
(32:21):
like kind of big bit of benchthere for people to kind of walk
past and just put their stuff.
Another one is I think it's badadvice to design a kid's
playroom and I think that thatkind of goes back to sometimes
our sometimes what we weresaying about forever homes and
things like that.
I see what you're saying Like,say, this is the kids' playroom
(32:44):
kind of forever, you do not havea plan for it.
Well, yeah, I think thatsometimes the kids' playroom
it's a dumping ground for all ofthe toys that the kids never
play in the playroom.
That's so true.
They want to be where you areso that you know, maybe if
you're planning for a family orwhatever and you'll think, oh no
, this will be the kids playroom, tell me if they never play.
(33:04):
Yeah, I think you'd have tomake it pretty exceptionally
inviting for children, for themto want to stay in there and
play.
I think it's probably morerealistic to make it like a, I
guess, a games room.
I guess it depends on how oldthe kids are.
I think as they get older, thenmaybe they're more likely to
hang out there.
Yeah, if it's a TV room or agames room or if you go in there
(33:27):
and play with them, yes, butyeah, I think you do need to
think that through a little bit.
And particularly if you haven'thad kids and you think that
you're going to use a playroomthe way you think you are,
generally the playroom justspills out into every other area
of the house.
Agree, I agree on that one, Ithink.
Were there any others?
I'm sure we could keep going,but I think we've kind of
(33:49):
covered quite a few, haven't we?
There's some of the main badadvice.
Oh, there was one.
There was one that we shouldhave probably talked about
before.
When we're talking about sofas,you know, when you're talking
about like that, we don't needto invest in it.
My thing on the flip side ofthat is when everyone wants to
have a neutral sofa or a beigesofa, yeah, or there's something
(34:09):
that like that, oh, it's goingto last.
Again, it's like, instead ofhaving the forever home, it's
our forever sofa.
So, like I think people can geta bit hung up on not just
investing the money butinvesting in something they
think is going to go witheverything, never date.
That drives me crazy, because Aif it's a central furniture
piece in your room, it has tohelp create whatever mood or
(34:35):
style or character you're tryingto create in that room.
It's going to have a big partto play because it's visually
taking up so much space.
So when you turn it into justlike something you know, vanilla
, then that's kind of whatyou've got to work around and it
can be so much harder to makeall the other things work with
that, don't you think?
I agree, and you know,realistically, a sofa has a
(34:56):
lifespan.
It is not forever.
They can't.
Yeah.
Yeah, as long as it lasts, aslong as you love it, you know, I
think we could sort of say 10,15, 20 years.
You know, by that stage youmight be like you know what, I'm
ready for a change, ready for achange anyway.
Um, yeah, and that doesn't meanthat sofa doesn't get a second
life with someone else.
(35:16):
It just means that you knowsomeone else can take it maybe.
Maybe they repulsor it orwhatever.
But yes, I don't think we canexpect a sofa to perform that
well.
At some point you're probablyholding onto it because you did
overly invest in it.
Maybe If you're just like, well, we spent all this money, we're
not getting rid of the sofa,and then it's know this kind of
weight that holds you downinstead of making you feel good
(35:40):
in your space.
Oh, you could have a sofa.
I think we had one, for, oh mygosh, it was when we first moved
out.
We had it for over 10 years 10,15 years the most comfortable
sofa ever.
But I actually felt a bit tiredof it and I got rid of it and I
actually regret it because itwas like, oh no, I know, and it
was in a bit tired of it and Igot rid of it, and I actually
regret it because it was likethe most oh no, I know, and it
was in a beige-y sort of colourwhich did go with everything.
(36:02):
It was like a dark beige colourDark beige, I'll forgive.
Yeah, it was like it was duringthe macro suede era, but it was
another really hard wearingWarwick fabric and it was like
my first worn up sofa and we hadit for years and years and then
, whilst that whole gray sofaperiod, um, you know, was
(36:23):
happening, I still held on to it, but then I let go of it.
I'm like, anyway, yeah, thesofa that got away, but that's
what happens, right, you can'tkeep everything either.
And then someone else isenjoying that now, hopefully,
and one day you'll end up withsomething different to what you
have now Like.
Yeah, yes, evolving Herms that'sthe name of my new book,
(36:43):
evolving Herms.
I would read that.
I would so read that.
Putting that out there, I thinkit's a new book bestseller.
It is your next coffee tablebook.
Yes, brie Banfeld, evolvingHomes, taking Pre-Orders she
hasn't written it yet.
Yes, I know, but Pre-Orderswould be handy.
Yes, oh, that's too funny.
(37:04):
Oh, that was really fun, brie.
So, yeah, let's wrap that up,and we've got some really great
episodes in store for you aswell.
So thanks for tuning in.
Yes, stand by, see you later,see ya.
So thank you guys for listeningin.
And just a quick reminder ifyou would like some help with
the interiors for your own home,I can help you in a course
(37:25):
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
Or for designers out there,come into the Design Society for
business and marketing and allof the things.
Yeah, and in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for my soon-to-be-releasedfurniture collections,
pre-selected furniturecollections and cool trend
information, and then in thefuture, some short courses on
(37:48):
styling and trends as well.
So, good Bree, we've got theutmost respect for the
Wurundjeri people of the KulinNation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
(38:09):
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends anddesigners me, b Banfield and me,
Lauren Li, with some amazingguests appearances along the way
, and today we're going to bediscussing what we consider to
be bad interior design advice,which may be controversial at
(00:20):
times.
Who knows, everyone hasdifferent opinions on these
things.
These are just things that wethink don't work or should be
rethought about, I think.
And while we have you, if youwant to jump into the show notes
, you'll find links there to thethings that Lauren and I do in
the real world For me.
You'll find a link to subscribeto my newsletter to keep up to
(00:41):
date with things we're doingthis year, which is bespoke
packages sorry, more curatedrather than bespoke packages to
help you design your home onyour own, with a little bit of
help from me, as well as someshort courses coming up later in
the year.
So fun and for any designersout there listening, we are
(01:04):
doing the conversation circle,which is a small and tall group,
so if you want to be with yourown people, like-minded, we all
get you.
Um, yeah, come and join.
And yeah, again, there's a linkin the show notes.
So this is an interesting one,I reckon, br, because we have
opinions, we always haveopinions.
(01:26):
I think you know we have a bitof experience, you know behind
us when it comes to interiordesign and some things you know
seem like a great idea and thenwhen you live in it, you realise
, oh, that's so great Not reallyworking for me.
I didn't even think about thesethings.
(01:46):
So I think the first one, for me, the number one thing that I
think is bad interior designadvice, is open.
Find spaces.
Oh, controversial, mostly, justbecause nearly all of us have
them.
Right, nearly all of us, noteveryone, but I guess,
particularly if you're in anewer home or a home that was
built even just in the last 15years or more, you probably have
(02:11):
an open plan living, dining,kitchen, at least.
Right, definitely.
And even if it's a renovation,you know, we probably have seen
this before you know a gorgeouslittle worker's cottage with
this big box on the back whichholds the kitchen, dining and
living.
And the reason why I don'tthink it works is because of
(02:32):
well, there's a few things,there's acoustics, so it gets
very noisy when we're all inthat same space.
You've got the cooking, you'vegot the dishwasher whirring,
you've got the range hood.
It's very noisy.
Somebody is trying to watch tvand then somebody over here is
trying to do some work and it'ssort of like a bit of study area
and then it's just like veryoverwhelming.
(02:56):
Yeah, I think that, um, I cansee where the merit came from in
open plan.
I think the way it's designedis what's really important.
So you can have the idea of anopen plan, but the TV room might
be open to the dining andkitchen, but you've got big,
giant sliding doors that close,for instance, when you don't
(03:19):
want it to be open.
So I think it comes down, forme, it comes down to
functionality and if you arerenovating, sometimes you do
feel like you want that sense ofspace.
I think this has become a thingin Australian interiors, isn't
it?
Having a sense of space wherethat's why they're like oh, we
want to open this up and we wantto, or we want to be feeling
connected to outside, andsometimes the only way to do
(03:40):
that is to open up a back roomso that the kitchen can see
through to outside.
But it has to be done well andif you just kind of create this
big open room, it can be reallyhard to furnish as well in terms
of the loud of the furniture,acoustics, as you said.
And then for me it's alsodecoration, in terms of paint
color or wallpaper or wallfinishes, whatever you're doing,
(04:01):
and even flooring.
Where that stops and startsLike if that's all overlooked,
it becomes bad design.
Right, you're right.
Like a lot of the time I'veseen clients they're not lacking
in space, but they can't figureout their furniture placement
and they've got this sort of bigopen area and it just wasn't
quite done.
You know you need to just dropin on your floor plan the
(04:23):
furniture.
Where's the TV going to be?
You've got windows everywhere.
Then how do we?
It's just like basic, like weall watch TV still.
Yeah, so it's also lipstick isalso smell, because when you're
cooking in the kitchen sometimesyou don't want to smell like
the whole house, like a fishcurry or whatever.
(04:44):
Yeah, I think it is hard though, isn't it?
I find the kitchen's thetrickiest spot.
I think that we can easilycreate like alcoves or rooms
that adjoin, that can feel a bitmore open plan when it comes to
, say, like a TV room or asitting room and a dining room.
But I think that the dangerwith the closed off kitchen is
(05:04):
the person that's cooking anddare I say, it is often female,
I know that's changing feelslike they're kind of like locked
away in this little room ontheir own cooking.
So I think it's trying to workout how to make sure it doesn't
feel like that.
Right, so true, and I mean tohave to be, to be fair.
Um, if you are organizing thespace and if you're planning it
right, the smells are stillgoing to come through.
(05:31):
So it's a bit of a hard one toresolve.
You actually just need a reallygood extraction, exactly
Rangewood.
I've seen houses that there isthis big box on the back and
they've got all of this space inthe middle of the floor.
They're like what should we dowith this space?
I'm like I've got no of thisspace in the middle of the floor
.
They're like what should we dowith this space?
I'm like, yes, no idea.
They're like so much should weput a little table thing here?
I'm like it's kind of not bigenough for that, but it's just
(05:51):
like what is it for?
No, I refer to it.
I've same thing.
Many times have I been into aclient's place and it has been
actually renovated, you know,not so long ago, but it needs
some work.
And I sort of refer to thoseweird spaces as the dance floor.
Well, here's your dance floor,yeah, exactly.
(06:11):
Or sometimes Just this bigweird empty spot yeah, they're
like this is where wrestlinghappens, like if you've got
little kids, yeah, and the thingis like okay, I get it.
Family homes do need flowthrough spaces, but there are
those moments where you go Idon't even know how to resolve
this for you unless we start,you know, moving a wall or
(06:33):
whatever it is, because it feelsit actually feels wrong, and
sometimes it's reallyfrustrating because another
space needed that space yeah,exactly, do you know what I mean
?
And you can't move it there.
Yes, you've got this pokeylittle study or whatever, and
then all of this wasted spacethat you know no one really
thought about what it would befor, and it's so great to have
(06:54):
that feeling of spaciousness,but when it kind of echoes in
there, that doesn't feel like aspace to hang out.
No, like that's the thing withthe noise and the echo, it's
harder to make it lived in andcozy and more like a home.
It's going to always feel alittle bit empty.
It's much harder to addcharacter as well, isn't it.
True.
I remember this client.
She wanted her family to all betogether.
(07:17):
What would happen is herteenage kids would go off in
their room because it was suchan uncomfortable space to be.
I was like, how sad is thatthat they can't spend time
together?
Yeah, it does have impact.
It really does.
It definitely has impact.
Yeah, she was upset about it.
And actually, in particular,that age group I think sometimes
we think about particularly ifyou're you often will have young
(07:38):
kids right when you renovate orbuy a new home or build a new
home, and so you are thinkingabout the fact that you will be
with them in that space.
But it does change a lot asthey get older and spend that
time in their room.
So you do want it to beinviting and a space that you
want to sit at.
So you do need to be thinkingabout those change of life
moments when you're designingfor a family too.
(07:59):
I think that's really important.
I suppose what I would suggest,other than that broken plan, is
what's known as a broken plan.
So that's more like an L-shapedspace, or maybe there's like a
courtyard.
Yeah, I love an L-shaped space.
Yeah, so you can still beconnected.
That's right.
My favourite design actually isaround like more like a C-shape
(08:19):
, so, yeah, you have that kindof like courtyard-y space.
You still have connection tothe outdoors and a visual to
outside and it's connected.
But yeah, as you said, broken.
I like that.
It's good.
Yeah, not always possible onceyou have an open plan, but there
are ways to help it.
Well, I think that's.
You know, with open plan it'slike the designing is left up to
(08:42):
the end user.
It's left up to the end user,it's left up to the homeowner
and they don't know how toorganise their furniture in a
way.
That's sort of all left up tothem.
You know, sometimes you do needa bit of help.
Yeah, I would say that I'veworked on open plan in terms of
decoration, so that you knowfootprint's already there.
I've just finished the houseactually, and it does have a
(09:04):
very beautiful, warm feelingabout it.
I mean, it's helped thatthere's some great materials
there, but it has.
We have had to delineate pretty.
Basically, there's the kitchen,there's the dining room,
there's the living room, but Iguess then it comes down to
clever decorating in terms ofthe layers.
You know where the rug goes,how big it is, what sort of sofa
you have.
You know, like I feel like thesofa needs to be a little bit
(09:27):
more kind of, I guess, creatinga division in the room for the
living room as well.
So maybe it doesn't work aswell to have like a single sofa
and, uh, individual chairs.
It probably feels like it kindof grounds the space to have a
much bigger kind of, you know,curb sofa or something like that
.
So, yeah, I think it's justapproaching it.
When you are stuck with it, forwant of a better word, it's
(09:47):
about making sure that you'vegot kind of like things going on
in there.
That kind of grounds it anddoesn't feel like this big kind
of open showroom kind of vibe.
Definitely, I think this clientthat I'm thinking of in
particular you know all of thefurniture was pushed to the edge
of the wall.
All of the furniture was pushedto the edge of the wall.
Ah, yes, nothing worse.
It's nothing worse and just youcan't have a conversation.
(10:09):
That's why it felt like such anuncomfortable place for her
family to spend time together.
So it is exactly what you said.
It's back in the right size,the right scale sofa and the
right type of armchairs orwhatever, so it flows correctly.
I mean it sounds like we'retalking about really
insignificant things, but Ithink you know when a family
won't come together and that'sreally upsetting for her.
(10:31):
It actually does me a lot.
Yeah, no, I agree, it candefinitely impact.
You've written one, lauren,which I actually agree with too,
which is kind of about openplan, but open plan in the
bathroom that includes a toiletin the open plan bathroom.
I couldn't agree more.
It's probably one of the thingsI hate the most.
(10:53):
I mean, sometimes I get it.
Maybe there's not enough room,en-suites can be really tricky,
but there's ways.
Like you know, you create likea cubicle, like a shower cubicle
, with the toilet in it.
You would have seen that donein hotels.
It's a great example of how toseparate it, because when it's
just there in the room, likeit's not A, they're ugly, true,
and B.
(11:13):
When we talked about smellsbefore, maybe this is also kind
of related to this room and it'skind of right next to a toilet.
When it's your own suite, yeah,and God forbid, you also have a
bath.
So if you're having a bath, thetoilet's right there, yeah, well
(11:33):
, we have had, you know,situations with and without, and
when we did our renovation, wedefinitely made sure that there
was a door to the toilet.
You know, when you've gotlittle kids and stuff plus, it's
nice to have this door.
It's like a minute of privacy.
Oh God, yes, you need that room.
Sometimes the only privacy youhave all day is going to the
bathroom, it's true.
(11:54):
But even if you're visiting afriend or something and you're
in their bathroom and you feellike you're really far from the
door I don't know if that's justme, but I feel like somebody
could just burst in no, it is athing.
It's definitely a thing.
Yeah, because you don't knowwhat their family dynamics like.
Maybe they all just like openthe door, you're in there, like,
yeah, I know, you know there'sno lock.
(12:14):
Actually, let's add that in havea lock on your bathroom door.
Yeah, can I tell you a story?
So our bathroom, it's all onebig bathroom with a toilet and
you know the toilet's far fromthe door.
There is a lock, but we don'thave the key for that lock, so
we've had to hide it with stickytape, because if you lock it
and close the door, we can't getin.
So we don't use the lock.
(12:35):
So anyway, you know, I'm in thebathroom, I'm using the toilet
and I've got a littlethree-year-old toddler who
walked past, opened up the door,swung it wide open and we had
one of my Indy's friends overfor a play date and she saw me
sitting there on the toilet.
She did not need to see that.
At least it wasn't like youknow, 10 dinner guests off in
(12:56):
the distance or somethingExactly.
Oh, it's the worst.
Hi, hey, everyone.
I was like oh, my God, god, I'mso sorry you had to see me so
you were tired.
That's awkward.
Yes, no, we definitely needsome delineation there.
Yes, a screen at the minimum orsome kind of screenage at the
minimum, right, just, yeah, Ithink it's good.
(13:19):
I think another one and I daresay that we would agree with
this one is people think to makea small room feel bigger, they
will paint it white.
Oh gosh, it's such a myth,isn't it?
It is.
It does not work.
People do this all the time,yeah, and then they regret it, I
feel like.
So the only thing that sort ofmakes something feel bigger in a
(13:39):
room, if it's to do with color,is receding colors.
Right, we've touched on thisbefore.
So you can actually have areally dark room that's like a
midnight blue or something, andbecause that color recedes, it
can make the room feel bigger,even though it's not white and
bright.
And I think that that's theother.
I think there's two things it'smaking the room feel bigger and
(13:59):
the other thing people thinkthat that's the other.
I think there's two things it'smaking the room feel bigger and
the other thing people think isthat, oh, it's a dim room with
not a lot of light, so we'llpaint it white.
And that's probably my, that'sprobably my favorite bad design
advice, because it's it's theworst, like.
So, as soon as you paint ashadowy room white, what do you
get?
Gray, shadowy, no character, itfeels cold.
So grey, shadowy, no character,it feels cold.
(14:24):
So as soon as you add some kindof color to it, at least
there's something in the shadow,um, I say, I say to clients or
anyone that asks me about thatembrace the moodiness of that
room, bring in beautifullighting, create moments with
that.
You're never gonna, unless youbreak a hole in the ceiling,
you're not gonna get moresunlight in there because
there's a white wall slightlyreflecting the dim sunlight
coming from the other side ofthe room.
(14:45):
It just doesn't work that way.
So that's my.
I kind of get all cross on myhigh horse about that one.
I think it's just because aswell you know the impact that
color can have and it is just sobeautiful.
And also, I think that there isthis obsession with making a
room seem big.
I'm like why, yes, like, ifit's a small room, lean into it,
(15:07):
as you said, lean into thatcraziest.
It's not going to feel big atall if it's a small room.
And I also think that, um,having less things in there
people like don't put too muchstuff in it well, I actually
think that can make it feelsmaller.
It's almost like you can createa few little moments in the
room, that kind of just fill itup a little bit and create more
(15:28):
points of interest, maybe.
Um, yeah, yeah it's.
I think that's the same thing aswhat I was saying about the,
the dark room.
I guess you're saying embraceit and make it cozy and and you
know, not cluttered, but likeinteresting with elements,
rather than just like a, a smallroom that has nothing going on,
and then that's all.
You focus on the fact that it'ssmall, yeah, kind of distract
(15:50):
from the fact that it's smallwith the pretty things and
making it interesting.
So you're not going, oh, that's, that's a tiny room.
Instead you're going, wow,that's a cool room.
And then you might go, oh, it'ssmall, but hey, doesn't this
work, whereas if you removeeverything, you just go, that's
a really small room.
That's pretty boring.
Well, I think you know it'strue, because if you um, you
(16:12):
know, if you're moving house andyou see the bedroom and you're
like, oh, that's a small bedroom, but then when you put a bed in
there and your bed's a tub, soactually it's not that small
there's something about it beingempty that makes it feel small.
Well, it gives it a point ofreference, doesn't it Exactly?
And sometimes people think asmall room I'm going to put
small furniture pieces, a smallsofa, a small coffee table.
(16:32):
It's actually.
No, actually a bigger sofathat's just in proportion
actually makes the room feelbigger than lots of small pieces
as well.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's a.
It can be a visual thing too,like if you I don't know, it can
be like what's on the floorthat can make something look
bigger is better than trying tomake it look bigger with a white
(16:53):
wall, like it's the making sureyour rug is proportionally
right to your furniture and theroom, whereas I feel like you
can actually make a room looksmaller by having a too small
rug.
You know how it sort of breakseverything up visually.
Yeah, yeah, it looks kind ofpiddly and it floats in the
space.
You want to make sure that youknow the furniture sits on the
rug and it feels like a muchmore expensive sort of Be
(17:15):
generous with what you put in aroom, even if it's small, I
think is a good way to look atit.
I love that.
What about natural stone?
I don't want natural stone.
I feel like we've talked aboutthis a few things, I think,
because we love it, right, welove natural stone.
But yeah, that's the thing,that's it.
I think people get reallyscared of it, really terrified
(17:36):
of it, and I think I don't know.
I think the key is to do yourresearch.
It's not an indestructiblematerial.
It does take a bit of care andmost things aren't right.
All the good things aren't.
I mean, if you want somethingindestructible, I was about to
say the things that areworthwhile.
Yeah, you know it's come fromnature.
It's very hard wearing, it isvery strong and all stones are
(17:58):
the same.
So you know you can research astone that fits the way that you
live in your home and you knowlike a quartzite is more dense
than a marble and you know atravertine is extremely soft I
would probably really hesitateto specify that for a kitchen
bench for anyone, so they're notall the same, but that's so
true can get a bit frustratingsometimes when clients are like
(18:20):
I don't want actual stone, weneed to unpack it a bit.
Yeah, you need to educate alittle bit, but also I think I
guess it also comes down to theacceptance of that beauty isn't
necessarily perfection.
So it's like stone and timberand all those beautiful natural
materials aren't going to stayas perfect as they are when they
(18:41):
first come into your home.
But that's actually what makesthem beautiful, that's they're
going to evolve with you overtime and and become more
beautiful as they kind of age.
And I think that's that's theimportance of kind of
understanding that but alsoaccepting that that's how it
works.
Don't you think like, becausesome people just don't love that
totally and I think what you'resaying?
(19:01):
It really underpins all whatwe're saying about interior
design advice, wanting somethingperfect, yeah, fresh out the
box, perfect, like.
What does that even mean?
And sometimes you really haveto challenge your clients a
little bit and say you know, um,that doesn't always mean
beautiful.
A painter tells a story, it hassoul, you know, it captures some
(19:22):
sort of feeling that'sbeautiful, and they've never
really thought about that beforeperhaps.
Yeah, which actually kind ofleads into one that is further
down our list, but I'm going tojump in and say it now and that
is because it also relates alittle bit back to, you know,
designing through families.
You know, changing is you and Iboth work on family homes quite
(19:43):
often, and one of the thingspeople do kind of get a bit
stuck on sometimes is oh well,we don't want to invest in XXXX
until the kids are bigger, older, not babies, not toddlers, and
then it's sort of just.
I feel like your life or theway you want to live kind of
gets put off a little bit, and Idon't think it's necessary.
(20:05):
I think you can still do greatdesign and make a home feel
beautiful and still invest inpieces and have young children
and I will be challenged on thisand I know not all children are
the same.
I know that my first child wasamazing and never did anything,
and my second he's the terrordestroyed, maybe a couple of
(20:26):
things, but they were actuallynot, let's say I won't say cheap
, let's say affordable anaffordable coffee table that was
veneer and what he did becauseit was veneer I couldn't fix,
whereas potentially, if it hadbeen a bit more of an investment
piece, we could have fixed itlike a solid timber or something
as an example.
(20:46):
Well, I agree it can befrustrating then.
Frustrating, I understand, butI feel like you don't want to
live your life on hold for thatmoment, that everything's going
to be great and everything.
And I feel like that almostbrings me to the next point,
which, again, maybe noteveryone's going to agree with,
but I don't think we shouldstrive to live in a forever home
(21:09):
.
Oh yeah, because you know wecan plan as much as we can for
the future.
And you know I've had clientsthat have adult children and
they're like, oh great, we canuse some really beautiful
fabrics that we don't have touse outdoor fabric for the sofa,
we can use a lovely whatever.
And they're like, oh no good, Imight have grandkids one day.
Like I've got a client who'sliterally bought all of these
clothes for her grandchild thathasn't been born.
(21:31):
Oh no, yeah no, she's so funny,she's so funny, it's on its way
now, though, so that's good,but, you know, planning for what
might happen as well, like,just, I feel that life changes,
our tastes change, our lifestylechanges.
You never know what couldhappen around the corner.
Live in the now, and that's justmaybe me a little bit, and I
(21:54):
think people can obsess about it.
Yeah, they can, yeah, and Ithink it actually almost feeds
back to, um, you know, the otherthing that, again, we would
have talked about, which isthinking about oh, when I sell.
So for me, like, I like, I like, if a client talks about a
forever home because for me thatmeans they're not worrying
(22:14):
about when they sell, true,you're 100% right that you can
kind of go the other way with itand kind of think that, um,
you're continually going well,I'm going to be here forever, so
I've got to take into accountthis, this, this, this and this,
which might be just too muchfor one home to handle, right,
yeah, and maybe just like okay,I'm here now.
That might happen in the future.
We'll think about it and what'simportant, to integrate into it
(22:36):
now.
I guess that's kind of our jobas well is to have that
conversation and go.
Well, you know, that'spotentially a long way away and
by then maybe then you'd beadapting this.
But we can think about it andplan for it.
But it doesn't have to be doneright now so that it lasts you
for the next 50 years.
But I love the forever home froma client because it means
(22:58):
they're not going to go.
I need everything to be whiteand neutral because maybe we'll
sell it one day.
That is the worst thing youcould say to a designer.
I know, and also I mean I cango on a rant about the whole.
You know, decorating or havinga home that you think you might
sell, unless you are literallyselling it next month, don't
(23:19):
even think about that.
You live here now.
It's your home.
You want it to be your home.
You don't want it to be someplace that you live in until you
move on to the next one.
And then what?
When you move on to the nextone, are you going to be
thinking about that again?
When do you ever get to just go?
This is my house, yes, exactly,and I love.
I've said before, like pinkkitchen, I'm going to have my
pink kitchen.
(23:39):
You know, like, if that'swhatever it is for you, you just
do that You're investing somuch in it.
You might as well make itsomething that you love.
Yeah, absolutely.
What's another thing?
Oh, I do like this one too,lauren, that we've written down
here Always matching, everythingmatching.
Make sure everything matches.
I feel like we'd probably sayalmost the complete opposite to
(24:00):
that.
Right, I think things shouldcomplement each other Exactly.
But as soon as you doeverything matching, then you
kind of lose the fact that it'sa design in the first place too.
It's like anybody couldprobably do everything matching,
couldn't they?
Definitely?
And I mean it just does looklike straight out of a showroom,
which is what it is Catalogue,catalogue, catalogue, decorating
(24:21):
.
Yeah, you know, and I thinkthat was something in the past
where you would have bought adining table with the matching
chairs that go with the matchingbuffet, and you'd even, maybe
even, get a coffee table in thatsame.
You know, all the same tipperand everything, the bed and the
dresser and the bedside, the bedand the bedside.
Yes, it's like a one-stop shopand you're so right, it's about
(24:44):
having it coordinated.
Uh, and you want your home totell a story a little bit about
you, express yourself, and whenyou're buying something straight
out of the catalog.
You just don't get that well.
All you're doing is selling alook that you purchased from a
brand it's got nothing to dowith you at all, in a way.
No, and I think that also leadsinto another one, which you
(25:05):
need everything done at once.
So it's sort of you know you'regetting that done, it's all
done, we need it done.
It's like, well, I think,interesting spaces.
They kind of evolve over timeand they add to them when you're
rearranging things around.
It's not static, it's not done,and you never touch it again
like that.
Um, that's so true.
(25:25):
I find that too.
Even, um, I think artwork's oneof the ones that's always a bit
tricky to.
You know, it's nice to sort ofaspire to okay, this is the
house and this is, this is whatwe want done, and then we want
to be able to go okay, great,ticked, tick, box done.
But I think as you work throughthat with a client, you realize
that sometimes you're lookingfor a piece that hasn't
(25:45):
presented itself yet.
And I think artwork's a reallygood example where you know I
can search everywhere for theright piece and it's not there.
But that doesn't mean we won'tsee it in three months, six
months or whatever.
And I guess the flip side ofthat is making sure you allow
your house to evolve, and Ithink that kind of ties back to
if everything's matching.
It doesn't kind of allow forthat, does it Like you want
(26:08):
things to be able to come and goin your home as you change or
your family changes and it stillworks?
Yeah, I don't know.
Evolving homes is good, bigtick to an evolving home.
I like that and what you sortof mentioned about artwork.
Then I have a bit of a maybeupside down take on this.
But I think a lot of the timewe're told splurge on your sofa.
(26:30):
That is the piece you shouldsplurge on.
But I would argue, splurge onartwork instead.
So let me give you an example.
Yeah, exactly this lady that Imet just last week.
She is so gorgeous and lovely.
She um has moved downsized, um,unfortunately her husband
(26:51):
passed away a few years ago, soit's just her.
She entertains, she's superlovely and very social.
It is not a priority for her tohave two really comfortable
sofas because she sits in herown armchair.
So I sort of turn it on itshead and said why don't we just
not invest in the sofas, likewe're going to get something
that looks nice but it's notgoing to be sat in it's just not
(27:15):
only with her guests and we'llspend on her armchair, but the
artwork and those day-poolpieces and the lighting that
really make the space feel good.
So I think we can get a bitobsessed with having to spend a
lot and these days we think thatyou can get a really great sofa
without having to spend in thetens of thousands.
Yeah Well, you can.
(27:36):
I mean, even finding greatvintage sofas is a good option.
If you don't want to invest interms of money in a sofa, you
might be able to still find agreat vintage one that isn't
cheap.
I guess for me you've just gotto watch where you go.
Don't overinvest, as you said.
Make sure the budget goes whereit's needed, but also don't
(27:59):
skimp on it, because it also canruin a room like you wouldn't
do that, but like if you'redoing it on your own and you go,
oh, we don't need an expensivesofa, but you buy something
that's a bit cheap, even if it'snot being used a lot.
It can actually change the waythe room feels, because
sometimes you can just tell it'snot right.
So I think vintage is a goodoption.
Yeah, but you know what I thinkyou know, back in the day, when
(28:20):
we were up and coming in 20years ago or so, like you,
really, there were not a lot ofum sofas that were just imported
from china, you know.
Now you've got, you know.
No, that's so true.
Yeah, they were all made inaustralia and which is fantastic
, and I 100% endorse that andsupport it whenever I can.
But sometimes, you know, forthis client, the, for an example
(28:42):
, she doesn't need sofas.
Yes, she's not going to sit inthem ever.
She's like I think you shouldhave designed a room for her
with just the one arm chair andjust a little table, just like a
really plush rug or something,and just amazing artwork
everywhere.
Yeah, and just sculptures andartwork, and just like a gallery
that she sits in with her wine.
(29:03):
She's so gorgeous.
You know you've got EllisonStudios.
You know they're really coolsofas and they're at a Pretty
reasonable price point.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we're not saying, go andbuy the cheapest, but we're
saying, like you know, stick tothings that may be a bit more
affordable where you need to,and that's sort of the high-low
factor right when you create aroom.
(29:25):
Yeah, totally, and I think itcreates more interest often too.
But it's just being budgetsmart.
Yeah, put the money where youneed to put it, and art's always
a good investment.
Art is never a bad investment,in my opinion.
There you are sitting,surrounded by artwork, your
little backdrop there, love it.
(29:47):
Well, I've heard people bang onabout this one saying, in your
kitchen, the sink shall never bein the island bench, and I
think that's bad advice becauseit depends on how you cook, it
depends on the architecture ofthe space.
Sometimes there really is nochoice but to put it there, and
plus, it's a kitchen, is it notfor cooking?
I mean, yes, we dine in there.
(30:08):
I'm a bit more relaxed on thosekind of rules.
I think so too.
I kind of have seen it donewhere it is a mistake for sure,
especially when you knowsometimes there's the tap that,
no matter how gently you turn iton, it sprays water everywhere,
and so, like you know, you'resitting at the island bench and
the tap gets turned on and youget a shower.
(30:30):
Oh my God.
Yeah, that's so annoying, I'veseen that happen.
But yeah, I, yeah, I thinkyou've got to be realistic.
Sometimes it comes down to thebest layout and sometimes the
best layout is also the sinkgoes in the island bench.
What I will say about badpositioning in the island bench?
I hate it when they're right inthe middle, because if, for
(30:51):
example sorry, I'm getting on myhigh horse slightly the kitchen
that we have here is quite abig kitchen, so it should be
very functional, but the sink isbeing put kind of right in the
middle of this beautiful big,long bench, and so then it
immediately breaks it up and inthe end, instead of having like
all this great space to work inand cook, I end up in like one
(31:15):
little corner next to the sinkand down.
The other end is generallywhere everyone just puts their
sheets, just puts stuff, and sothe sink would have been like
just a bit like just give melike one more cupboard the other
direction, perfect, anyway.
So I think it's less about itbeing in the island and more
about where is it in the islandin relationship to everything
(31:37):
else.
That's my yeah, and that youmake sure the chat doesn't give
everyone a shower.
Yeah, I mean those every dangthings.
I can really just annoy you.
Oh yeah, because they're not.
They are actually.
They're not really littlethings in the scheme of it.
If you use your kitchen morethan once a day, which probably
most people would like, ifyou're there for breakfast,
(31:59):
maybe lunch, most likely dinnermost nights um, yeah, it impacts
the whole way you kind of liveand it also impacts how your
kitchen functions and looks solike if we've got everything
gathering at one end of thebench because it looks like
there's lots of room there, thatkind of drives me a little bit
crazy.
I get that there's always setdown space and things get put
there, but like I think it's aninvitation, when there's this
(32:21):
like kind of big bit of benchthere for people to kind of walk
past and just put their stuff.
Another one is I think it's badadvice to design a kid's
playroom and I think that thatkind of goes back to sometimes
our sometimes what we weresaying about forever homes and
things like that.
I see what you're saying Like,say, this is the kids' playroom
(32:44):
kind of forever, you do not havea plan for it.
Well, yeah, I think thatsometimes the kids' playroom
it's a dumping ground for all ofthe toys that the kids never
play in the playroom.
That's so true.
They want to be where you areso that you know, maybe if
you're planning for a family orwhatever and you'll think, oh no
, this will be the kids playroom, tell me if they never play.
(33:04):
Yeah, I think you'd have tomake it pretty exceptionally
inviting for children, for themto want to stay in there and
play.
I think it's probably morerealistic to make it like a, I
guess, a games room.
I guess it depends on how oldthe kids are.
I think as they get older, thenmaybe they're more likely to
hang out there.
Yeah, if it's a TV room or agames room or if you go in there
(33:27):
and play with them, yes, butyeah, I think you do need to
think that through a little bit.
And particularly if you haven'thad kids and you think that
you're going to use a playroomthe way you think you are,
generally the playroom justspills out into every other area
of the house.
Agree, I agree on that one, Ithink.
Were there any others?
I'm sure we could keep going,but I think we've kind of
(33:49):
covered quite a few, haven't we?
There's some of the main badadvice.
Oh, there was one.
There was one that we shouldhave probably talked about
before.
When we're talking about sofas,you know, when you're talking
about like that, we don't needto invest in it.
My thing on the flip side ofthat is when everyone wants to
have a neutral sofa or a beigesofa, yeah, or there's something
(34:09):
that like that, oh, it's goingto last.
Again, it's like, instead ofhaving the forever home, it's
our forever sofa.
So, like I think people can geta bit hung up on not just
investing the money butinvesting in something they
think is going to go witheverything, never date.
That drives me crazy, because Aif it's a central furniture
piece in your room, it has tohelp create whatever mood or
(34:35):
style or character you're tryingto create in that room.
It's going to have a big partto play because it's visually
taking up so much space.
So when you turn it into justlike something you know, vanilla
, then that's kind of whatyou've got to work around and it
can be so much harder to makeall the other things work with
that, don't you think?
I agree, and you know,realistically, a sofa has a
(34:56):
lifespan.
It is not forever.
They can't.
Yeah.
Yeah, as long as it lasts, aslong as you love it, you know, I
think we could sort of say 10,15, 20 years.
You know, by that stage youmight be like you know what, I'm
ready for a change, ready for achange anyway.
Um, yeah, and that doesn't meanthat sofa doesn't get a second
life with someone else.
(35:16):
It just means that you knowsomeone else can take it maybe.
Maybe they repulsor it orwhatever.
But yes, I don't think we canexpect a sofa to perform that
well.
At some point you're probablyholding onto it because you did
overly invest in it.
Maybe If you're just like, well, we spent all this money, we're
not getting rid of the sofa,and then it's know this kind of
weight that holds you downinstead of making you feel good
(35:40):
in your space.
Oh, you could have a sofa.
I think we had one, for, oh mygosh, it was when we first moved
out.
We had it for over 10 years 10,15 years the most comfortable
sofa ever.
But I actually felt a bit tiredof it and I got rid of it and I
actually regret it because itwas like, oh no, I know, and it
was in a bit tired of it and Igot rid of it, and I actually
regret it because it was likethe most oh no, I know, and it
was in a beige-y sort of colourwhich did go with everything.
(36:02):
It was like a dark beige colourDark beige, I'll forgive.
Yeah, it was like it was duringthe macro suede era, but it was
another really hard wearingWarwick fabric and it was like
my first worn up sofa and we hadit for years and years and then
, whilst that whole gray sofaperiod, um, you know, was
(36:23):
happening, I still held on to it, but then I let go of it.
I'm like, anyway, yeah, thesofa that got away, but that's
what happens, right, you can'tkeep everything either.
And then someone else isenjoying that now, hopefully,
and one day you'll end up withsomething different to what you
have now Like.
Yeah, yes, evolving Herms that'sthe name of my new book,
(36:43):
evolving Herms.
I would read that.
I would so read that.
Putting that out there, I thinkit's a new book bestseller.
It is your next coffee tablebook.
Yes, brie Banfeld, evolvingHomes, taking Pre-Orders she
hasn't written it yet.
Yes, I know, but Pre-Orderswould be handy.
Yes, oh, that's too funny.
(37:04):
Oh, that was really fun, brie.
So, yeah, let's wrap that up,and we've got some really great
episodes in store for you aswell.
So thanks for tuning in.
Yes, stand by, see you later,see ya.
So thank you guys for listeningin.
And just a quick reminder ifyou would like some help with
the interiors for your own home,I can help you in a course
(37:25):
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
Or for designers out there,come into the Design Society for
business and marketing and allof the things.
Yeah, and in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for my soon-to-be-releasedfurniture collections,
pre-selected furniturecollections and cool trend
information, and then in thefuture, some short courses on
(37:48):
styling and trends as well.
So, good Bree, we've got theutmost respect for the
Wurundjeri people of the KulinNation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
(38:09):
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
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