Bringing Nostalgia into Retail & Residential Interiors with Brahman Perera

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Me, Bree Banfield and me, Lauren Li, with some
amazing guest appearances alongthe way.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
We're here to break down everything from current
trends to timeless style.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and
lived-in spaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights of inspiration with you
and in this engagingconversation, we talk with
Brahman Perera and we look backon the past year, sharing our
thoughts on the value of restand creativity, the generosity

(00:38):
we've seen in the designcommunity and how cultural
identity plays a role in ourwork.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
And we dive into how food can be a way to celebrate
diversity and discuss the roleof nostalgia in sustainable
design, highlighting theimportance of forming meaningful
connections with the things wechoose to keep in our spaces.
Throughout this conversation,we explore the key elements of
interior design, how personalconnection, functionality and

(01:04):
practicality all come togetherto create spaces that truly
resonate with clients.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
And I just think that you know, I've been thinking
about a conversation with Bremsince we recorded it the other
day All of these little goldnuggets that he shared with us
and we were just chatting aboutand just before.
I hope that you guys reallyenjoy this episode, because I
loved chatting with Brem.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
It's super engaging and Brem is, just like an
amazing sharer of you know, veryopen, easy to talk to, so it's
really fun as well.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
So good, shall, we, shall, we, let's go.
Hey Brem, how's it going?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Good, good, great to be here.
Happy Christmas as well, I know, I know, or happy month, as I'm
saying, loth.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
My brain still isn't even there and I know that's
like next week.
Right, it's next week, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Allegedly.
Yeah, I'm very slow to it thisyear.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it's been a bit of a.
It creeps up on me, but I saythat every year like it's
nothing new anyway, I don't knowwhy this year feels worse.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
somehow, though, everyone's saying that I don't
know why, I don't know either.
I think we're just in traumastill from the last few years.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
We're just not recovered, but a break will be
nice.
It will be so nice.
And Bram, oh my God, you looklike you've been so busy.
I bet you're looking forward toa break.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah, absolutely Just to your point, brie.
I'm still thinking about thisyear and like what has actually
happened.
There's been so much and it'sbeen so long ago.
And it's interesting to mebecause I have a little out of
office spiel that I put in myout of office email and it's
about you know to be creativeand to think creatively.

(02:51):
You know you need to rest, youneed to read, you need to have
some quiet moments and things.
I love that.
And then I was thinking today,going I can't recall when I last
had my quiet moment when I reada book.
So I mean I'm trying to enforceit because for me that's when
I'm.
You know, thinking creativelyis when you can relax.
So lots of, I guess, lots oflearnings from this year.

(03:13):
It's been a good year, but lotsof learnings to take into the
new year.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I know it's all good in theory, isn't it Like we know
that we should just go forwalks and, just like you know,
switch off.
It's like, oh, I've just got toquickly write this email,
though, and then the whole dayis gone and you're just like, oh
my God, what happened?

Speaker 1 (03:28):
That's exactly what I do.
I'll go okay, so I'm just goingto get this done, this done and
this done, and then I'm goingto go and take the dog for a
walk and it just never happensbecause it just keeps coming.
Yeah, it's not good, it it'snot good.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
It is important to recharge the batteries, though.
So I was thinking, Brem, of thefirst time I sort of got to
know you, and I can't reallyexactly remember, but I do
remember reading a story on thedesign files, and it was a
really great interview with youat the time you were working at
Fiona Lynch.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
That's right.
Yeah, I think I just moved tothat studio after working for a
few years um with paul andhamish and hanky guthrie.
Yeah, there was thisopportunity to do this, this
little chit chat with um, withlucy, but she's always been um a
big champion of of me or mywork anyway, um, you know, very,

(04:19):
very generous with her time.
Their whole team have been very, very generous with their time
and their um yeah, sort ofcelebration of a lot of my peers
as well, so I definitely have alot of time for them.
I know that they've celebratedsome pretty big milestones as
well this year.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Actually I saw you run in so gracefully to their
launch, their magazine launch,and then you, just like
Cinderella, you just disappeared.
That was terrible.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
You didn't leave a shoe for us.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
No shoe.
That was terrible.
I already had an event on thatnight.
But I just and I'm trying toyou know to your point before
about, you know, just so much on.
At the moment I try not tocommit to too many things in one
night because I kind of thinkit's actually a bit rude, you
know when you can't be present,when you're meant to be present,
but for it's actually a bitrude, like you know, when you
can't be present when you'remeant to be present.
Um, but I but for lucy, I justthought I couldn't get out of

(05:08):
this other event.
It was good a client and um, Ijust I had to go and see her and
got some flowers and and justwish them, even though it was I
had the uber just wait aroundthe corner, I just sort of
wrapped him well I didn't see itexactly.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
I actually you sort of said you thought it was it
would be rude to do that, and Ithought it was actually the
opposite.
I thought that obviously you'vegot something like you've got a
lot of stuff on and I justthought that you've gone all the
way out of your way just to bethere and just to do the thing
and say hello, and then you wereoff.
I thought that was really cool.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
I just I just think like there are certain people
you know who really, who really.
You know they're very, veryspecial.
It's not just Lucy, but manypeople in my life have been
really, really generous withtheir time.
It's not just even publishingor even this amazing opportunity
to chat with you both, you know, on top of our sort of more
social friendship, it's, I justfeel like, in the last few years

(06:00):
, it's generosity.
It's people who sort of go letme do something for you with no
potential or foreseeable gainfor me in any possible way.
You know, let me introduce youto someone.
Let me give you some thoughtsthat I had randomly the other
day about your website.
You know there are people outthere who have kind of got in my

(06:21):
corner and, you know, sometimesyou sort of forget to just say
to them wow, that was a reallyreally amazingly thoughtful
thing that you did, with noconcept of any sort of
reciprocation, but I would hopethat that happens anyway.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
So I just sort of think to myself yeah, there's a
people to tick.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, definitely definitely.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I do think that it's very generous.
It's always amazing when thathappens and I think that it also
, just for me, creates theseamazing friendships, yeah, that
aren't based on exactly what wesaid like a gain, or it's just
that you all have a love of whatyou do and so you kind of want
to encourage people and you wanteveryone to kind of do well.
So, yeah, generosity I haven'treally thought about that word,

(07:03):
but I do think that our industryis quite generous, but I find,
particularly in Melbourne aswell, that we have such a great
community.
So, yeah, it's nice to hearthat.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
But I think it also speaks to you, b, because I
think somebody could look atyour work and I just feel like
it's so you feel the passion,you feel that inspiration and I
think that is like a magnet topeople as well.
So, yeah, I think that attractspeople, so that's really nice.
But, um, you know that, thesame with Lucy.
I mean I mean I can't.

(07:32):
I won't even start bashingabout how much she's, you know,
supported me in my business aswell.
She's just, I mean, she's beenon this podcast too and yeah, so
she's just the best, isn't she?

Speaker 3 (07:43):
absolutely mutual love here, so it's a fan club.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
It's a lucy fan club it is I do.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
I do think you have quite a magnetic personality
though, b.
I mean, I remember the firsttime we met was I think we were
both joking on a panel.
I want to say I think there wasa panel.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Was it a panel or a judging sort of thing?

Speaker 1 (08:02):
I think it was.
I think it was a panel.
Yeah, we just do that, or ajudging sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
I think it was a panel Always judging?

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, we just do that in our spare time.
What?

Speaker 3 (08:08):
are you talking about Mine's?

Speaker 1 (08:09):
judging, but you know , just immediately was able to
chat to you and you're very openand you were on that panel.
I can't even remember what wewere talking about, but I think
there was three of us talkingabout.
It was probably about colour orsomething like that.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Um, maybe the old den fair somewhere, I think it
might have been the old den fair, I think about having a panel
and definitely about color.
I'm sure that, yeah, um, butlook it's, it's something that
you have to kind of again.
This is all in the scheme of,like, my work it's.
You know, I've been working fora long, long time, but only
technically on my own for thelast few years, but, but it's in

(08:42):
the it's in the last few yearsthat that kind of understanding
is has is slowly, um,solidifying and and you kind of
have to re-evaluate, um, youknow yourself all the time.
Anyway, I think any, any normalperson would but, um, but, but
it's.
I found it kind of interesting.
It's sort of a myth that, like,if you are in this world, you
do need to be, uh, I don't know,you need to speak well and be

(09:04):
charismatic and sort of know howto do everything all at once.
You need to close them and allthat, and I do think that you do
like, I think you need to makean effort, but, um, there are
some amazing designs out therewho are kind of quiet and stick
to their lane and just do whatthey need to do and do beautiful
, beautiful work, and I thinkthat what's nice is that they're
still successful and peoplefind them and follow the work.
So, ultimately, I think youneed to follow the work, follow

(09:27):
someone who you know moralsalign with you.
It is nice and I think, justthrough hospitality and whatever
, I kind of feel quitecomfortable, you know, to jump
on a podcast and to do thingslike this, but it's still
something I'm working on, slowlyhopefully getting better.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, I think that's so true too.
There on slowly hopefullygetting better.
Yeah, I think that's so truetoo.
I mean, I probably come acrossas someone who is quite
confident to chat, but I haven'talways been like that and I do
get quite shy in a lot ofsituations, particularly if I
don't know people and you haveto really push yourself out of
the comfort zone.
But yeah, it should never be tothe detriment.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Really, yeah, I do Aw .

Speaker 1 (10:08):
It should never be to the detriment of someone's work
, right, and sometimes that doeshappen.
I do think sometimes people flyunder the radar because they
are present and out there, butyeah, it's nice to be able to
make sure that those people arestill being seen as well.
Absolutely, you are very outthere, though we were just
chatting before about the factthat we saw you at the NGV gala
in your beautiful outfit.
Tell us a little bit about thatand how that came about.
You know?

(10:28):
Look, I mean the thing with thegala.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
I look, I have a lot of respect for the NGV, um, and
I think that that that it exists, you know, in its own
particular sphere, and then wekind of orbit around it and to
the side of it and then there'sseparate melbourne design week
things and and and things likethat happen, um, but you know,
it can't be just one thing, soeverything has to exist together

(10:52):
and it attracts differentpeople.
The ngb is a particularorganization and I think we
should be pretty proud of it.
Does it do everything I wantedto do?
Probably not.
Does it do a lot?
Yes, um, can it harness, youknow, hundreds of millions of
dollars very, very quickly?
Yes, um.
So you know there's a lot ofcriticisms.
Can it harness hundreds ofmillions of dollars very, very
quickly?
Yes, so there's a lot ofcriticisms.
I think sometimes with bigorganizations, I just sort of
have that at least it exists andthere are some amazing people

(11:14):
who work within it.
The gala itself, look, it's abit of fun.
It's to celebrate an artist, anexhibition, but also just to
celebrate the fact that we havean organization on spending
money and it can put on a show,and I guess my hospitality side
kind of looks at things a bitthrough that lens as well, what
some might kind of call a bit ofa waste of money or frivolous

(11:35):
or whatever it is, I go.
Well, it isn't.
It isn't.
I mean, it's a networking event.
Really.
It's a networking event thatbrings prominence to what
they're trying to do and thereason for the funding and
getting people into the gallery,which is, as far as I see it,
an incredible resource and boonfor melbourne.
Uh, and yes, you know, on thefun side, to dress up the sort
of met gala s aspect to it, it's, it's all just part of what

(11:57):
makes melbourne kind of colorfuland fun, and the people who go
to it as well.
So I mean, you know, we wereprivileged to go on to
contribute and to be at thedinner and be at the party and
to meet some amazing people andto see the exhibition, of course
, um, which was amazing.
Um, and, yes, you know, havinga nice outfit is always fun.
The outfit was from a friendand client of mine, kudret, who

(12:19):
has a label called mustani, andI'm working with kudret and her
husband, alex, on their privateresidence.
But you know, kudret came upwith some ideas for the outfit
and it sort of provides, I think, some references to the
particular exhibition this time,but also still felt a bit like
me.
You know this amazing sort ofMiriam Polishman.
It's kind of His name was MaryMay.

(12:39):
You know, just a touch of sortof an ethnic kind of traditional
or artisanal workmanship to thegarment, without being too on
the nose.
But you know I don't mindplaying up a bit of.
You know, I've got a greatethnic background.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's always kind of fun to me because it doesn't
worry me.
What is your background, Bram?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
I've been to Sri Lanka.
I've been to Sri Lanka, andboth from Colombo.
And then they moved to Englandand they lived there for
probably about Five miles to SriLanka, five miles to Sri Lanka,
and both from Colombo.
And then they moved to Englandand they lived there for
probably about a decade.
And then they came to Hamilton,of all places here in Australia
, and they lived there for awhile where we had a lot of our
childhood and then Melbourne.

(13:30):
But my grandparents we werepretty fortunate enough to be
here, be here in melbourne withus for well all of my life
basically, um, and they theymanaged to leave, um, you know,
after the war in sri lanka, sothat so we were pretty
privileged to make a life here,um, and you know that they were
just, uh, they were just amazingpeople who really embraced
living in australia, really feltutterly grateful to be here and
contributed a lot as well.
So I think I kind of learned alot from them about the fact
that you know, they were stillvery cultural and proud of their

(13:52):
ethnicity, but they were alsoextremely proud to be
Australians.
So you know, it was a nice wayin which to feel, you know,
culturally connected in a way toa country.
But I mean, I wasn't born thereand I sort of don't like to
take too many graces from thatcountry because, you know, I
sort of feel a bit like I wasn'tborn there.
I don't speak the language, um,but nonetheless we still, you

(14:14):
know, grew up going to churchyeah, it's still doing a lot of
traditional things exactly,exactly.
So I do like to weave that in,in, in.
In its own small way, or moreoften than not, it probably just
happened kind of naturally,through osmosis or something and
so I just was not aware of ituntil until it's there, you back
in life.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
But that's beautiful what you wore yeah, well, that's
um interesting because myhusband, his um parents, are
from hong kong and it was sortof like what you were saying,
like they love, love, this loveliving in australia.
But they they moved down inFrankston, which is an area
where there weren't a lot ofother Asian people, so Phil was
like the only Asian person inhis whole school.

(14:51):
But, yeah, it's nice to theyreally appreciated it.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I imagine that would have been like that in Hamilton,
because Hamilton is just like apretty small country town,
right.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Pretty much.
I think there was a joke thatwe were probably the only
non-Indigenous brand peoplenearby.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know, like it sort of.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
It is interesting to me.
I don't, you know, it's justnot our story.
So it's not our story of anyparticular hardship, and
sometimes I think that peopleexpect you to have that kind of
story.
Yeah, it's just not ours.
My parents had a wonderful timeand great friends and as far as
I'm aware you know, they wereobviously I'm not obviously but
there were understanding, Ithink, some subtle nuances,

(15:30):
perhaps growing up or at school,but nothing that I really felt
was of any you know, significantdetriment to our lives or or
personal, you know, personalityor an emotion but I love that
because I feel like we don'tneed to hear the hard stories
all the time.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
It's nice to hear, actually, that you did come to
Australia or parents came toAustralia.
They had an amazing time, theylove it.
Like that to me is thosestories actually need to
probably be told more.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
I completely agree.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
It doesn't have to be you know, all the other stuff.
I feel like yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
I completely agree and I find it kind of
interesting we my partner, well,whether or not, um, everyone
knows, my part is a restaurateurand we we opened a restaurant
earlier this year, um calledhopper joint, which was really
our kind of love letter to oneof our particularly or one of
our particular favorite dishesthat you know, hoppers um, which
is sort of a Sri Lankan streetfood really, and my mum works

(16:27):
there on a Friday and Saturdaynight still.
And she just kind of swans in.
She's in a sari, fully done,and she goes around and welcomes
everybody and puts little bindior puttu on their foreheads,
like the little jewelled piecehere, and you know that's kind
of a limited watch.
She does such an important partfor us on friday and saturday

(16:52):
nights when she's there and Iwas thinking about it going like
again, like it's just whilstthere were these nuances,
perhaps when we were firstgrowing up here.
Um, you know, she feels, Ithink, quite proud to be doing
this now and celebrating herculture in such a big way um.
You know how far we've all come,you know, in understanding, you
know the cultural fabric thatwe're very lucky to have and
celebrate it.

(17:12):
You know and realize that.
You know, the value ofdiversity is pretty much, in my
opinion, the one important thingcurrently within the Australian
landscape that people are notdiscussing.
Oh, I love that, it should beconstantly.
You know, we'll try to look atthings and try to put it in the
positive spin and it's yeah,it's this value of diversity.

(17:35):
I think that everyone is sortof not labelling and you know, I
think we're pretty, we shouldbe pretty happy to put a label
on it.
We're happy to put labels oneverything else, but this is one
that should be, you know,really valued, really celebrated
.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's pretty special, and don't you think that food is
such a great way to, you know,celebrate different cultures.
But I think it's also reallyimportant for the interior
design industry because you needto have people from different
backgrounds in the room.
When we're designing spaces,you know, residential is one

(18:09):
thing, you know you can haveyour home however you like it.
But when it comes to spaces,you know, like hospitals, um,
even retail, um, airports, allof these places where interior
designers work, we need to havediversity in the room and I feel
like that.
To be honest, I feel like it'sreally lacking in interior
design and I don't know, I'mscratching my head why?
Because when I have taught atRMIT, I actually see the whole

(18:31):
world of cultures.
I see people from Morocco, fromSyria, from Malaysia, from just
all around the world, but thenwhen I come out to industry, I
don't know what happens to them.
But anyway, it's something I dothink about and I don't have
the answers to.
Obviously, it's quite a big one.
But, yeah, I think that youknow that's beautiful, that
you've been able to put your ownbackground into your space that

(18:53):
we can all then experience.
And I loved Hopper's joint andI loved the way that you
incorporated a like a homelykind of atmosphere.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
I don't know if homely is like a cool word to
say, but it no, I'm, I'm all forit, I'm all for it.
Go, go with homely, I mean, ifthat's, if that's the word that
comes to mind.
I mean, the reality is thatthere were two things with
hopper joy and it's like one.
Is this like obsession I hadwith jeffrey barla and also who
doesn't?
Interestingly to me, somepeople are not kind of aware of
who he is or his work, and I wassort of sitting there racking

(19:29):
my brain going.
I know that because I studiedarchitecture, not interior
design, and I know that in myfirst year at architecture there
was Southeast Asian studies, Iguess, or we looked at Southeast
Asian architecture.
I have this feeling that hedidn't even pop up um, what we,

(19:50):
just I'm so I'm trying toremember, I'm trying to remember
yeah um, you know what it was,that that I, some general I
missed to have, or whatever itwas, but anyway didn't really
matter.
So there's this kind of thing ofthat.
And then there's this otherthing which is just like, like
memory.
You know, childhood, so growingup with all of this sort of
random religious iconographyaround the house was just so
common.
Growing up with what is it 4, 7, 11, you know everywhere just

(20:14):
reminds me of my grandmother.
Now, the funniest thing is thatwhen other people come into the
restaurant and see these littlethings, some of them have very
specific, you know, memories ofBen Tappage and go oh my gosh,
we grew up with this and some ofthem we've heard yeah, I love
it.
I love that.
I'm like it's not.
I always thought it was justvery particular to me, my joke.
I don't think so now anymore.
It's just a South East Asianway of me.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh, that's I mean the way that you know, in this
space you've got this sort ofantique round table and it's got
a vase with, you know flowersarranged on it.
So it's like it does have thatyou know touch of something from
like the grandparents' goodroom, but it's sort of in a
really elevated way though.
So yeah, I think that wasreally clever the way that

(21:00):
you've woven in those homely, ifI use the wrong word, sorry.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Let's be, cool.
Homely is cool.
I just want to be with homely.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Isn't it funny, though, that the nostalgia thing
too, that that can be whatmakes it feel homely, not
necessarily the furniture or theI mean.
Obviously that helps in termsof layout and how you're all
sitting, particularly likecommunal tables and things like
that, but nostalgia can be what,that connection that people
kind of go oh, this is just likesuddenly they've got this
connection to this space thatthey've never been in before,

(21:30):
and I kind of really love howthat can be used for that too.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
Completely.
And nostalgia, just as its owncategory of our conversation, is
worth exploring.
I mean, that's nostalgia for me, and I guess my assumption was
that other people would linkinto it because I had a
connection to it, or at leastthat was the hope.
It wasn't sort of contrivedthat if it needs to look this
way to promote, this thought.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's quite authentic.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Nostalgia is Exactly, but I think that you can play
with that in other spaces aswell.
I mean, I think this year look,my work's pretty particular, I
think, or I'd like to think, ithas a certain thread, if not
super discernible.
But you know, I do like goingin my week, my week be routine,
the few things that I do do formyself to try and get myself
thinking incredibly.

(22:13):
You know, going to my littlelocal haunts for inspiration,
and a lot of them are auctionhouses.
I love the nostalgia ofreclaimed pieces.
I have a bit of a BMA bonnetabout you know the use of the
word sustainability.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
So, without going, too far down, but another
conversation.
You can go down there if youwant.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
But just as sustainable as I can be as an
interior designer in a worldwhere, more often than not,
people are looking tore-evaluate their lives or how
they live, for example, and theywant new things.
So, yeah, there's only so farwhere we can go, where I think
we should just be doing this asa responsible person, and I
don't need to shout it from therooftop that I'm suddenly a

(22:56):
really responsible person.
I think it just needs to be anunderstanding in the industry
that this is just yourresponsibility.
But in terms of just findingbeautiful pieces, getting things
to second light, that to mefeels like the more sustainable
way in which we can discuss thistopic and, to that point of
nostalgia, it's creating a roomthat feels like it has had a
life.
I think you can very clearlysee when there's a room that

(23:18):
looks completely new or, dare Isay, a room that has a sort of
collective feel to it as a story.
I'll often have a chat withclients more to do with the
residential side of my practiceand we'll be talking about
certain pieces in their house.
You know, what are we keeping,what are we not keeping?
It's always an earlyconversation I have, and

(23:40):
sometimes it just mortifies meto think that they're like no,
we're just getting rid ofeverything.
And I look around surely, surelythere's some hideous bars that
you, you know, have in a corner?
Um, that you bought when youbackpacked in Peru and then
casually schlepped all the wayback to Melbourne, you know, on
your Europe trip or somethinglike that, and I'm like it's.

(24:01):
I'm like it's not hideousnumber one, it probably is.
It's whatever they think it is,but you made a decision on your
budgeted daily spend to investin something.
It's got a story.
It's so special.
How do we then celebrate it?
Is it on a beautiful stoneshelf or a beautiful?
And you did Timber Plinthill,blah, blah, blah.
Whatever it is that we want todo, and I'm still trying to pull

(24:23):
all these pieces out and go.
You've actually got an amazinglife channel stories.
Why would we get rid ofeverything and then simply
replace it with something thatyou know, you see digitally or
um, you know?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
that you kind of don't have that connection to
what is the well, what is theconnection?

Speaker 3 (24:38):
I'm sort of forming connections for you, so so.
So, in terms of think, yeah,nostalgia is something worth
discussing, and evaluating yourchoices and what you purchase,
both previously and futurepurchases, is sort of how I
weave that conversation aboutsustainability into it.
All the new purchases are, asfar as I'm concerned, they need
to be forever purchased.
It needs to be something thatyou go sure we'll give it 10

(24:59):
years and then recover it, butthere's nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
We love it.
We all love it.
I find that really interestingtoo, that I think nostalgia and
sustainability is likeconnecting those two things.
It's about meaning, isn't it?
So it's about to be sustainablewith things that you purchase.
If you don't place any meaningon those things, then it is very
easy to just go.
We don't want any of this.
We're clearing it, so thatfirst time when you purchased
those things, there was probablyno thoughtful process behind it

(25:30):
, or they just went to oneshowroom and picked a heap of
stuff out, or they'd never lovedit in the first place, because
they didn't choose somethingthat they loved.
They just chose it for someother practical reason.
And then it makes it easier toget rid of, and this, I guess,
goes back to making sure thatyou really do like, don't just
kind of go well, I guess that'sfine and that's okay, and we'll

(25:50):
just listen to what Brem'ssaying or Lauren's saying or
Bree's saying.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
you still need to love it and have the connection
to it for it to be yeah,considered to be sustainable,
right and and as a follow-uponto that, the sometimes we'll
be discussing pieces and itshould be something that
everyone's thinking about, but Ihave to sort of articulate it
and go.
You know, I'm not living here,like in many ways it has
absolutely nothing to do with me, like it really doesn't.

(26:15):
I'm here to facilitate and toassist and to advise and to
create with you, for you.
It has nothing to do with me.
I think that when I lookthrough my work, I think I said
before like I'm hoping for athread and I'm still developing
it.
It's very early on.
You know, who knows what thatthread is?
As I said, I think it'sconstantly a cycle of
re-evaluation, reassessment ofwhat we're doing.

(26:36):
Am I on the right path?
Are the morals the right way?
All of these things.
But it has nothing to do withthis.
So if someone can pick upsomething and say, oh, that
looks a bit like your work, I'mlike, okay, that's really nice.
But I would never want someoneto say that's definitely brand,
because it really shouldn't sayanything about me at all.
It's about either it's about abrand you know what is their
core DNA or it's about a personand their family and their story

(26:59):
.
And so person and their familyand their story, um and so quite
often I'll start the story offwith them with, like, all the
terribly unsexy conversationsabout.
You know how many buns on theseats do you need at a dining
table and in your lounge room?
You know like that's the stuffand on where are your children
putting their?
Um, you know myriad bags thatkids need to be having all this.

(27:20):
It's like you know all of thisstuff because they sort yeah, we
want to do this renovation, butthat's right, we need, you know
, essentially, lockers for ourhouse.
That's what that would help me.
Or, you know, I desperately wantto showcase all of my
grandmother's flatware, orsomething that would be my dream
you know just things like that,all this like super boring

(27:45):
practical stuff, and I thinkit's also because, again, it's
still in development, but I'venever, ever felt throughout my
whole career I'm unsure aboutany of the decisions I'm making.
I think the best thing or thebest quality I'm trying to hone
of myself is to just continuewith the confidence that I had,
the understanding and theknowledge and the learnings and
I think I know what I want to do.
It's always developing, but I'mnever nervous about what I'm
putting forward to a client,ever.
It's always a solid thought inmy head, or I don't put it

(28:05):
forward.
So I kind of had this faiththat it's going to look
beautiful and if you want it tobe a hot pink kitchen, I will
make it look beautiful if that'swhat she wants.
But it has to be something thatyou want.
I'm just not doing things forthe sake of some kind of weird
ego or something like I think,yeah, because most of the things
I do don't even getphotographed, like no one sees
them.
But the person here is, youknow, commissioned to work, I

(28:26):
guess.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
So you have that confidence in that you're doing
the right thing, because it'swhat the client wants.
But they just don't know how toput that together.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, I have a confidence that it's going to
look good.
So I'm happy to sort of talk inthe first steps about the maths
of the room.
You, you know the really unsexymathematics circulation paths
and bombs on sets.
You know, once we know thatwe'll need 10 seats because
we've dissected that actuallyonce a week the in-laws come
over and I've got four childrenand they bring chiefs and all of

(28:54):
that, then at least I know thatwhen I'm proposing the
conversation and the brain cellsthat we're talking about, that
we're using in that conversation, are purely about, well, what
is the finish and what is thesort of form of it?
But we know it's a big, we knowit's cb10, there's no there's
no option of this and thenaround and then two, whatever
it's, just it's.
This is what it is, and this issort of a new part of my

(29:15):
practice and I'm trying to honein on it's like you know, early
mud map study, earlyconversations about this, and
trying to take people on ajourney to say don't worry about
what it's going to look likeright now, let's just make sure
that it functions the way itneeds to function, and then
we'll talk about what it lookslike because you need a table.
That's point one.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Okay, whether the table is pink, blue or green is
kind of irrelevant at this stage.
We will work on this togetherand most of the time through
these conversations you end uplearning more about the client.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Anyway, they'll let something speak or make a
comment.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
And then you'll sort of take this information and go.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, I know that they don't like green and
therefore I won't be proposing agreen table.
Unless I really want it.
That's another one, that's adifferent, sorry, unless you
think they really want it, Bram.
Unless, you think they reallywant it.
I think they really want it,Bram unless you think they
really want it.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
It's kind of amazing some of the things they get
through when they're like no,it's okay, we'll see, but only
because I think there's enoughto back it up.
If we can tick off like threeor four checklist boxes, I think
that you can help explain topeople why it's a good thing,
but it is always their decision.
As I said, I don't live there.

(30:21):
There, imagine coming home andsaying, oh, bloody bram and the
stupid green table that I hate.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
you know, I'm just like the worst one yeah, but I
think that's interesting, that Ifeel like, um, you know, I
totally respect that, thatthere's no ego in it and it is
about the client, because I feellike we should all be like that
.
And I know that you do start toform a maybe a little bit of an
aesthetic as as you go andpeople can kind of pick up on
that.
But what still makes theproject great is not that.

(30:47):
It's usually the things thatyou've done because of the brief
or because you needed to makeit work for that person, and
then that's kind of where itbecomes a bit more authentic,
and then that's sort of thething that comes through, I
think absolutely.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Parameters are what make the design work harder,
like the more you can explain ortell about how you want to live
, the better it is.
Like like the bums on seatsthings.
I say that like five times aday because people just forget
and I'm like, but if you havethis gigantic boardroom type
dining table, where are thesepeople sitting when we're having
a drink before or after?
Yes, on bottom, what I'll findis you know I mean no criticism,

(31:23):
but it kind of is a criticismis sometimes some jobs that I
might inherit if I haven't beeninvolved from the very beginning
with an architect, for example,is that sort of block works
furniture that just arrivesthere is is the best way to sort
of show how it's undoing in,how so much actually works.
And often there'll be a roomwhere I'm sitting here going.
This doesn't work because I'mactually 10 meters away from

(31:44):
television.
So, yeah, like how is thisactually going to work?
like it's all well and good toput a random chair in the middle
of the room, but that's not howwe're living.
And then there's a giganticdining room which seats 20
people and I think again wheredo these people go before and
after this dinner?
Nobody goes to a dinner partyand sits directly down, so yeah,
so the shape of rooms and theformation of the plan can very

(32:07):
quickly become undone.
So I'm gonna.
These are important questionsthat you need to be asking front
and that's also suggest thatpeople don't.
It's just, unfortunately,recently there've been a few
situations like this where I'velooked at it and god, god, it
feels like a waste of time.
It starts to unfairly underminepeople's work when all they're
ever going to do is the best.
But then you've got to kind ofwork within those inputs and,

(32:29):
you know, just try to geteverybody back on track without
throwing anyone under the bus aswell, because that's not what
anyone's about.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
I don't know, no, and I think sometimes it is just
like stepping through.
You know, a bit of a like astory, telling the story, like
what you said before Okay, kids,school bags, where are they
going?
Okay, they go there.
That's why we've designed itlike this.
And then when you have a dinnerparty, this is where people are
going to be, and then they'regoing to go there.
But for your every day, this iswhere you're going to be and

(32:58):
you, and sometimes you get afloor plan.
That's quite bad.
It makes us look like geniuses,because you're just like
pointing out some of thesereally basic things, but some
floor plans that don't capturethose basic things.
So but I think what's reallyinteresting from your point of
view, bram, is that you know youwork across disciplines.
So what I was noticing in someof your residential work was

(33:19):
some aspects that I thought oh,that looks like a bit of a
hospitality touch there.
We've got like a built-in bar.
That looks you know.
So do you sort of find thatthey kind of feed into each
other and, like what we saidwith Hopper's Joint, it had that
residential kind of feel to itas well.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Absolutely.
I think there was always thisconversation.
I think in the last few yearsthat things were moving towards,
you know, softening off of ofum, commercial spaces.
You know, now I actually had aconversation with a friend many
years ago.
I don't ever forget it was this.
It was she's a lawyer.
It was a conversation about herlaw firm um, I won't name moms,
but like she had a slightly atthe time I thought it was a

(33:56):
cynical view, but I've beenthinking about it ever since,
about the investment that thefirm had made in their interiors
and I said, you know, it hasthis lovely residential feel.
And she made a point she goesof course it does, bram, because
they don't want us to everleave.
And I did think that that was.
I did think it was actually sohilarious.
Her view of it was not unkind,but just it was a bit like
that's what they do, because youknow, we're meant to be here.

(34:20):
It's not untrue right it's notuntrue and it and it isn't
untrue, but but I sort ofchallenged you and said that's
not unfair.
That's more probably more to dowith you than them, but that
also is improving your qualityof the time you're spending at
the office.
You know, yeah, how youinteract, as opposed to a
whiteboard box and desk, andsort of situation, to the
flexibility to have meetings inlounge rooms and things like

(34:42):
that.
Yes, it works both ways.
And following on from that, Iwould just say you know I don't
often like to talk so much aboutCOVID because I'm quite happy
to sort of leave it in the past.
But you know it was a globalgame changer yeah Well, a global
game changer for how peopleunderstood their faith and, I
think, for our industry.
It was incredible.

(35:02):
I actually was unbelievablybusy during and post COVID.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Same.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
Simply with people having conversations, or at
least starting the conversationsof.
I'm finally suddenly spent timein my house and realized how
much I am disappointed with theway I live, and I usually
disappointed because that waswhat people said.
They said I can't believe, Ijust let things go.
I don't want to live like this.
This isn't what I wanted frommy life.
I don't enjoy my house.

(35:27):
I don't have a dining table.
We've just been makeshifting itfor years and thinking it's
fine.
And you know small, small thingswhich were interesting because
it wasn't like a lot of fool, Ineed to renovate.
It was just like one of whatare the rooms I need to work
with, and the reason is becausea lot of people had to work from
home, so they suddenly went.
One I don't have anywhere towork from, or two, I'm at a
table which I detest, and thisis what I see every day.

(35:48):
So of course, that was going toshift the conversation in terms
of interior design now intowhat does that mean for the use
of all of these rooms?
I took some challenges fromthat or some learnings from that
, which were very interesting.
It wasn't just about working,it was just understanding what
you do in all of these rooms.

(36:09):
Um, you know what are thepurposes of them.
I previously was living in anapartment with my husband and it
was, um, quite a beautifulapartment and the lounge had
sort of these almost, you know,360 degree views of, or like a
view out of it, all quite inplace, and so there wasn't any
particular space to actually puta television, and if I did, it
really reoriented the way of allof our furniture work.
It was kind of a bit shitty,and so I was looking at a spare

(36:30):
room going.
I really don't know who'sstaying we very rarely have
guests and so to turn a sparebedroom into what we call our TV
room, and I had two vintageMaralungas which we were very
lucky to find, you know, in thecountry, and I recovered them
twice and I do rather, we've hadthese two, you know, meter by
meter chairs that basicallyfilled the room and the TV, and

(36:52):
it was just the greatest roomever, because we don't watch a
lot of television, but when wedo it's very specific, like
we're disgusted, it's sodisgusting Like there's an
episode of bad no, casualwatching.
It's not like the tv's just onin the background.
Yeah, um, but that's particularto us, you know.
So then all of a sudden, thelounge could be reoriented, and

(37:13):
I ask people this all the time.
I'm like do you even wanttelevision here, you?
this is what the purpose of thisroom is, or are you wanting to
be in a cute snug in yourpajamas, you know, with two
other people?
Like, who do you watchtelevision with?
Like you invite friends over?
That rarely happens, I don'tknow, so like that's not the
greatest example.
But that's just one thing.
Where I go, we can challengethe way we do and lay out things

(37:37):
, um, and, and you know, if weflip the conversation to retail,
I mean retail.
You see, retail has been hugefor me personally.
I've been really lucky to workwith some incredible brands.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Bram, all Australian.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I was looking at your website and I was just like, oh
my God, you are busy.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
I don't know if I fell that far back, sorry, I'm
still catching up, but it'sinteresting.
Like you know, I worked with ifI could give a couple of
examples, like working withPerry, clinton was wonderful.
Georgie and Will from theAustin Group had taken the brand
on and, you know, taken theminto their stable of brands and
Clinton knew that it needed alittle bit of a shake-up, but

(38:19):
nothing detrimental to thepericardium kind and I think
it's always sort of thetemptation to go.
We're changing up.
It's got to be new and hip andwhatever.
When I go it does, but we can'tscare off the people who are
buying the product yeah, that'srespectful exercise, isn't it?
um, and you're right, it'sdisrespectful to them.
You know, loyal customers, it's.
It's so, um, what we did wasand they were so.

(38:42):
They were so generous to allowthis as well.
And, and you know, retail hascrazy timeline.
There are lease agreementsinvolved.
There's a million things behindthe scene that we're not really
always privy to, or I put up awall and say I don't want to
know about.
Yeah, just, actually, that's,that's your, and there was so,
but I still said time.
I think we need to take a stepback.
Like no design.

(39:02):
Don't show me a floor plan.
It's just about the brand.
What do we want to do with it?
How can we do like just a highlevel brand DNA workshop,
related to interiors, of course,but like just kind of going
you've got some pillars, you'vegot some DNA, but what does that
mean for us?
What does that look like, apartfrom just your clothing, which
obviously changes seasonally andis therefore not always a sort

(39:23):
of great, you know a great wayto start.
And then, on the other hand,working with Peep recently has
been completely eye-opening.
They had sort of undergone theirown internal brand analysis a
few years ago and from that theyhave developed a really, really
strict, I would say, set ofcore values and guidelines for

(39:45):
how they want to appear, howthey need their store to look.
But one of the greatest thingsthat happened recently was that
High Street Armadale has openedand we'll call that sort of, I
guess, a flagship store for thebrand and we had a meeting
recently to discuss, you knowwhat I was able to challenge
them with that has beenredefined a bit of their core,
you know brand dna rules andwhat worked and what didn't work

(40:08):
.
Some of the things we've donehaven't worked.
Some of them have workedspectacularly, but they've been
so, um, generous and so good asto absorb these as well and go.
What are the learnings?
And we, we distill this outeven further into a better
package.
Um, coming to the end of thisyear, we would have done, you
know, started with Dish Bondi,which was a flagship for them,

(40:28):
high Street Armidale.
There's a store in Caringap,claremont Quarter, james Street,
and you know there's more onthe horizon.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Oh my gosh, have you done all of those stores, have
you?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (40:38):
And every time that we get in, what have you?
Yeah, and every time that weget in.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
What do you sleep I?

Speaker 3 (40:42):
don't know, I'm not familiar.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Can't answer that.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
No, oh my gosh, I just sit there and go.
You know, funky, that is sowonderful.
I'm so proud of what we've donetogether.
But it's never been anassumption.
I kind of assumed I'd do two,but then they'd try and some
other designer and move on LikeI was just ashamed.
It was like you've got two goodones, brad, like be happy and
don't be greedy.
That's great.
But they seem so happy.

(41:07):
I guess now you know tocontinue this and you know, I
think, like I would hope that asthey develop you know they work
I hope that they do work withother people.
I think it would be great forthem, great for their breath,
and then, you know, I might comeback to them in a few years
with something else.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
So well, I guess working with someone else would
make a would, I guess, mean thatthey do a similar thing that
they did where you challengethem, yeah, and then it improves
.
I guess sometimes there's apoint with brands where they do
need to work with someone else,so they get that happening again
and everyone doesn't get toocomfortable maybe, um, but at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
You're completely right.
But, as you said, you knowthey've um taken a minute to
reflect and say this workedamazingly, but this didn't work.
So you've already got, they'vealready invested all of that in
you so you can probably hit theground running like then they've
stuck with someone new andstart again also being on the on
the permanent contract yeah,absolutely it's great, but um, I
guess I just, I just, you know,respectfully, simply be like.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
You know you can't be something to error at all times
and and and any brands inparticular, flex and grow and
change as, yeah, as trends, youknow, if that's the word um
demand and internal businessstructure and whatever, and so
you just need to be flexible andnothing's a given nothing
significant, no, you can never.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I know it's really.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
You've got to remind yourself that all the time yeah,
um, and you mentioned that dishstore in bondi and that is
sublime that store.
Haven't actually been to it but, um, I loved the way that it
has like as we were sort oftalking about that resident that
residential feel.
It's got like a lounge room inthere.
It's not just like a littlechair in the corner for the
boyfriend to sit on while she'sdoing her thing, it's like a

(42:41):
full-on lounge room.
So how do you put forward anidea like that to the client To
give them?

Speaker 3 (42:46):
credit.
Actually, the lounge issomething that Dish is very,
very passionate about, so I willsay that to them.
I also agree I can't stand asingle chair for the boyfriend
or husband or girlfriend orwhatever.
Yeah.
So, but even before that, I wasquite comfortable with doing
smaller arrangements offurniture throughout.
Dishes, a brand, are veryparticular about their belief in

(43:09):
the lounge itself and and avery generous one, and this is
what I mean like to give themthe credit.
It was incredible having thisconversation where you know, as
I said before, the maths, theunsexy stuff is so integral to a
, to a, to a retail store, as itis to any project, I think.
But you know, looking at linealmeters and and things like that
for hanging and and foldedspaces, um, even though I do

(43:31):
like to always inquire aboutsome moments of relief, I kind
of call them whether it's ahospitality offering or just a
table for flowers for the sakeof its beauty, but also
circulation.
Um, you know, everything's gotto work for a few checkpoints.
In my mind it can't just be forone thing.
But they very activelyunderstand this lounge reduces
the capacity for five extrameters of product which will be

(43:53):
sold like they're making very,very considered um informed
business decision in this.
So for them.
it is all about the lounge, butI do find it interesting with
other brands to have thatdiscussion and it's to do with
so many things.
You know, whatever their rentis, what the lease agreement is,
what they can afford to do,some stores are there to promote

(44:15):
, I think and this is not dishes, this is retail, I think in
general to promote a brand as aclub or as an understanding of
what they are about socially andonline and what their presence
is in the world, and probablyvery little to do with actually
buying anything from thatparticular store.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, I was curious about that.
I used to do a bit of retaildesign but it's more for, like,
big brands back 10 plus yearsago.
But yeah, it was like, as youwere saying, the hanging space,
the folded space, that realestate in a store, like when
Westfield Sydney opened up, itwas so expensive so to have that

(44:52):
luxury of that loungeexperience.
But this was probably when, wasit?
Oh my gosh, it was probably 15years ago now, so that's
different time.
And online shopping, well, itexisted, but it was a different
way of a retail store thesestores were I was designing for,
um, I guess Aldo.
Gap when they opened up, um,they were to sell stock.

(45:12):
You know, that was that was it.
It wasn't really thought about.
Oh, it's going to showcase thebrand, but yeah, things have
changed and I think that's alsomaybe even a post-COVID thing
too.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, and it's online too.
I mean, one of the firstretailers I worked with was
Henny, and now we've justcompleted a second store for
them in Five Way, sydney, butthat started as purely online,
it was an only digital presence.
Was it and to move to brick andmortars is so interesting and,
again, for me, their particularbrand in a is very interesting

(45:45):
as well.
The buildings are incredible,they're beautiful, they're
evocative, they've got history,whether it's on gravel street
sorry, um, yeah, gravel streetor in five ways, you know.
They're beautiful terracesalmost, and they've got charm
and whimsy.
I don't necessarily see them asthe most super functional for
retail, but that's because theirgarments have displayed more as

(46:05):
art pieces.
Um, they've got an incrediblebrand following from women
mostly and men, I think, as wellnow who have been purchasing
with them online for years andthey know the fits and they know
how the cuts work.
So to buy online is is justeasy, but to go to the store to
experience a bit of their thesort of you know what it is to
be in.
That brand is artistic and funand you spend an hour at least

(46:27):
and you're wandering around andyou know that's why the Henny
home was so interested in littleartful inflections and
investing in beautiful piecesfrom overseas to have a sort of
more global appeal in theirstore design.
Beautiful pieces from overseasto have a sort of more global
appeal in their store design.
You know they let me findtables, stuff that you can't
really get across the line oftenin a commercial environment.

(46:48):
But Henny's always been verytrusting of the vision and
embraced that as well and saidjust, you know, once they get
the mats done, they're happy tolet me do things.
You know I'm very proud of bothstores.
I think Sydney is a prettyincredible experience.
I think if you took all theclothes out you could start to
hang some beautiful pieces andit would have a gallery-like
feel, you know, without beingtoo austere, but it's got this

(47:10):
really lovely.
But again, that is theirparticular um, you know brand
direction of where they want togo, um, and that might change in
the coming years as well, umwell, that's if anything.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
If anything's true in retail, it is change, isn't it?
Yeah and that, um, that storeon gravel street that won the
best in the best commercialinterior, for the bell for newly
awards and that year I think2022 you were also named the
best emerging interior designer.
But I mean, you're not exactlylike new to interior design, so

(47:43):
could you just give us like whathas been your so-called journey
?
I know that's overused thatterm, but yeah, how did you
start your own practice?
Well, it was interesting.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
It was just before COVID, just before COVID, and I
had sort of come back over thebreak and thought about, yeah, I
think this is now the righttime to do this.
I think sometimes there mightbe a confidence, but it's maybe
a bit for show.
I can't move without my braintelling me that it's the right
time.
So I've definitely been insituations, even more recently,

(48:17):
where I've gone.
You know, an amazing businessperson would have made this move
two years ago, you know.
Or an amazing business personwould have made the decision
three years ago and it wouldhave been exponentially amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Oh, don't be so hard on yourself.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
I just had to be aware that I can only do things
when my brain and my body areboth working together, and I'm
very aware sometimes thatthere's a decision to be made
that is the right decision.
But I can't do feel quitestalled and I won't do it until
I'm ready to do it myself, likeI need to get everything on
board, all the little factionsworking in my head on the
bargain.

(48:49):
It's like everyone's got to themeeting.
It's a yeah, signing this off.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Um, it's not how many people are up there oh god, too
many, they're not everyone,everyone has to sign off.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
It's so funny Because I just need my confidence to do
it in myself.
It's not me to make a jump anda leap of faith.
It's very not me to do it.
I don't have a sense of likethis.
Is it to just do it?
I need to, like, run thefigures, do your spreadsheet,
think about it for an extra twoyears.

(49:21):
It sounds like a really goodbusiness decision.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
To me, though, when you, when you've actually put
the work in because it's likeit's almost like going back to
what you're saying or even justtalking about a floor plan,
right, and then there's allthese rules of like what's
expected it's the same thingwith business is, yes, we can
kind of go.
I I probably say similar thingsabout myself.
I'm not a business person, butyou are because you made this

(49:43):
decision that was right for youat the time, and not necessarily
what maybe looked good on paperin black and white.
I mean, I think that's a creditto being a creative person.
You've got to take that intoaccount too, right?

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Yeah, well, the best thing I can do is to surround
myself with the right people.
That is something that I wasalways very aware of is to
surround myself with the rightpeople.
That is something that I wasalways very aware of.
So I did think, yeah, when Icouldn't make a decision myself,
who around me is someone whowill help me shape this thought
process?

Speaker 1 (50:08):
further.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I think I am getting a bit faster at making the
better decisions.
Then summer comes down to justthe situation I'm in, or the
quantity of work or what it is Iwant to achieve next year.
It's been pretty amazing thelast four years of just you know
things, building off things.
But I'm really intorelationship.
That's what I think thebusiness is about.
So you know, if I look back atthe body of work to think that

(50:31):
at a minimum you know there'sbeen at least two you know
projects with the same client,at a minimum.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Is what I want out of my practice.
I've got this friend, um, who Imet through my husband actually
, and he's um, his name is kenstringer and he's an incredible
designer.
Um, you know, studied in paris,old school design, old school
design.
I've always kind of looked upto kenji and bought.
Kentis does his own thing.
There's amazing houses.
He's solely residential, butthe way his practice is built is

(51:01):
, you know, parents apartmenthere, then the house in tour,
then it's their daughter'sapartment, like it's
generational trust.
I think that's beautiful.
Generational trust is somethingthat you know sometimes gets
overshadowed over past inconversations of who's it, you
know who's popular and how do Ileverage this and whatever it is

(51:21):
as opposed to who's the rightbit.
But you know, right tool, rightjob.
I kind of always think so.
Even if I'm pitching for a job,I just go to the client.
At the end of the day I'mvetting you as much as you're
vetting me yeah, I'm the onlyone with a website that tells
people what I do.
I'm very happy I had a prettyfrank conversation with them and
say, look, you go away andthink about it.
I'm also going to go away and,to be honest, if I get a funny

(51:45):
feeling in my stomach, I'llprobably just say to you I
directly grow a good fit, butwhat can I do to help you find
someone else that we're not good?

Speaker 1 (51:51):
like it's something you can trust yourself to, to be
able to say no to the wrongthings so that you can find the
right things right, oh, lol, itdoesn lol.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
It doesn't always happen.
Sometimes I make a completeblabber, but I do try.
I am trying to see if there arered flags, and I mean that
generous.
I advertise with myself too.
If I go, this job is out of thescope of my understanding, this
is not going to bode well.
It's going to be, you know,I'll end up fucking this up and
ruining everything.
So I think on both sides wekind of have to have a think

(52:21):
about it and go don't just takethings for the fake of it.
It's a great, great job.
It needs to be the right jobthat I'm capable of doing as
well, and also some people arejust difficult.
On the other side, I think weall know that that's just humans
.
It is what it is, and if youcan work with them, then great.
I find it very stressful, so Itry to avoid it when I can it
just impacts our life so much.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I mean I can't really separate my business and my
life.
So at the moment we have thebest clients.
We have clients that I justknow when the phone rings I'm
going to be like almost cryingwith laughter because she's
hilarious.
Or I'm going to have greatdiscussions with one of my
clients for an hour aboutbusiness, before we even talk
about the.
You know, it's just an absolutepleasure.

(53:04):
Um, and you know, as you saidit's, some people are just not
the right fit for me.
We don't click, we have.
We're coming from a differentpoint of view.
It costs me money actually totake on their projects.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
So yeah, I think it.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
You know I can't.
I wish I could say, oh, I canpick and choose and all of that.
You know, got to keep thelights on sometimes, but I think
the longer that you're inbusiness, the more you're just
like I'm holding out.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I'm holding out.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
I'm going to have to let that one go because I'm
going to keep my door open forthis amazing, wonderful client
to come in.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Completely.
I had a.
We did it earlier this year.
We did it earlier this year.
I usually do like a client'sChristmas theme issue.
This year I did a lunch and Ischeduled it towards the end of
November, not realizing thateveryone was thinking the same
thing as me and November endedup being December.
But you know, I was sitting inthe corner at one point of this
lunch, like overseeing all ofthe clients together with my

(53:59):
glass of wine, like a real creep, and just watching them and I
do feel like so crap, onlybecause it was like hideously
like I was thinking there weretwo clients who knew each other,
but otherwise no one knewanybody else.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
I love that and it's awesome.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
On the day, because previously I don't like stand up
these on the day.
I thought, oh God, prem, whaton earth have you done?
No one knows anybody, so you'reforcing them to sit down with
people they don't know and Iwould personally like get my
anxiety would go through theroof.
But somehow it all worked outreally nicely and and to your
point, lauren, like yeah, I justwent oh, this is a really
really fun, good group of people, you know, with compatible

(54:38):
family, largely, values and andthat's why they're along Like I
shouldn't have been freaked outabout it, it was all perfectly
fine, I love that.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Oh, that's beautiful.
What a gorgeous thing to do.
I've never done that withclients before, but occasionally
we'll be invited to theirChristmas party gathering and
they're just like so proud oftheir home they want to show it
off and it's really fulfilling,Like you know, the accolades not
that I've really got accolades,but you know, when your work
gets published or whatever, it'svery nice.

(55:12):
But I feel like that moment whenyou know your clients are
really proud and thankful andit's so fulfilling.
And I suppose, like you know,you probably get that sense even
more through hospitality andretail because you can kind of
sneak in and see people.
I don't know, do people just goin want to like touch all that
travertine, or is that just whatwe do?

Speaker 3 (55:30):
well, as I said, before yeah, as I said before,
with my ineptness.
I'm pretty technologicallyinept, I'm a bit so setting up I
was the one that sent you thewrong link took all of my energy
this morning, um, but I don't.
I also am trying to limit all ofmy screen time.
I don't talk, talk, tiktok orwhatever it is.
I don't do that and, um, I'mreally not cool.

(55:53):
And so I have friends who dotiktok and they'll send me
tiktok videos of people who goto the retail stores.
I didn't know that this was athing, that people go in there
and they take videos, and theydo send me TikTok videos of
people who go to the retailstores.
I didn't know that this was athing, that people go in there
and they take videos and they dolittle voiceovers and whatever.
And so I do find it quitehilarious when they're talking
about stuff, and even they'vebeen sending me tons of them
from Dish Armadale recently,where they're going to the chain

(56:16):
gyms and they can't go over.
There there's carpet on thewalls and stuff and everyone's
touching the carpet.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Oh I love it.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I could have it at this carpet, on the walls and
stuff, and everyone's touchingthe carpet and I'm secretly,
really, really proud.
And then, on the other hand,I'm like I should probably hands
off the carpet.
I really like that.
You're going to get fake tan onit.
I'm never going to get throughagain.
What are you doing?
You're not healthy me, hey, nan, you're okay, it's hilarious.
All right clothes on, don'ttouch anything, Just stay in the
middle of the room.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Put on white gloves as you enter the change room.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
I would if I could.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
So, bren, we've got a couple of questions.
If we can just round out, yeah,please.
So clearly you're the bestdressed in every room that you
enter, so I'm curious to know,like, how does fashion influence
you?
Know how you express yourself?

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Look, I think that it's a bit of an armour in some
ways, but I've always beeninterested.
In fact, when I graduated itwas when did I graduate?
2010.
Does that make sense?
Must be, must be, and it wasn'ta recession as such, but it was
not a great time, if you recall, and certainly no one was

(57:19):
hiring any graduate architectsat the time.
It was unworkable slim pickings, if you recall, and certainly
no one was hiring any graduatearchitects at the time.
It was, it was unworkable slimpickings.
Um I I went through universitywith a pretty cool group, um,
who I'm still friends with andthey're all doing incredible
things across the globe, um, butapparently none of them could
get a job.
It was quite hilarious.
To me, it's like what do you dowith the masters of
architecture and graduating withhonors and all this rubbish
when you can't get a job?

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Yeah, so true.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
I was doing some jewelry at the time because it
was a side hobby, and I foundout by Keegan, who still has her
label Keegan the Label becauseshe's a fashion designer and
she's one of the most impressivepeople I know.
She makes clothes and sellsthem.
You know that period and shehas now for what decades I think
.
She's an incredible woman andshe and I went and did a niece
course and we um then opened upa store in auburn village called

(58:06):
swoon and it was basically justa very early example of of
consignment.
So it was all australiandesigners and basically it was a
way for us to have an incomeand do things.
But we had it for we had it fora year and a half and then we
were both sort of doing our ownthing Even still is making
clothing under her label andartwork.
And then I was doing part-timework with some interior
designers and we were slowlytransitioning and then we sold

(58:29):
the business, which was amazing.
But I guess you know, like I wasalways interested in fashion,
even in this small way.
I think that it's a personalbrand thing as well, like people
are becoming a bit more awareof that as well, that you know
how you present yourself to theworld through it's.
It's not an ideal thing, butthrough the lens of social media
, it's just part of theconversation now it's stuck with
it, so people can find you atall sorts of things.

(58:50):
Um, recently I've been trying,you know, not not trying very
hard because, honestly, theclothing is so great, but I've
been wearing clothing from allthe brands I work with.
Um know, nothing is yourpleasure than to purchase from
them, or nothing you do or closeto them, to purchase from a
friend as well.
I'm not a massive believer insort of mates, traits types,
things.
I think you know if you want tosupport someone, you support

(59:10):
them, and that's just kind ofwhat you do, and particularly in
our industry as well, I justthink, yeah, if you want to
support a photographer or astylist or someone to come and
help you, you just, you know, ifyou can afford to do it, you do
it, and if you can't, then youcan't.
Um, so yeah, I think clothingis part of a personal brand is
fine.
I don't have enough wardrobespace, so I'm going to be
considering that over my holidaybreak, what I'm going to be

(59:32):
doing with some of the clothesif there's anything you've got
your eye on.
Yeah I don't ship you yet to thenew, to the new Ida we'll see
you had a good question, bree go.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Well, so obviously, with your husband also, being in
the hospitality industry is abig part of your life, right?
So I'm thinking is theresomething, some amazing kind of
foodie experience you've hadlike that you just will never
forget?

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Recently.
Look, I, as you can see, I'm inmy gym gear because I got up
early to go.
I'm not very motivated fitnesswise, except for the fact that I
eat like I just live to eat, atleast because eat first design
can come second.
I say I say eat first.
Design second is because I getdesign from Ishii.

(01:00:21):
If I'm explaining something tosomeone, I hopefully, and so I
collect cookbooks as well, and Idon't cook.
I don't cook at all, but Icollect them because I think
they're poetry and I think thatit's where design is.
If I'm explaining something tosomeone about layering and a
landscape of furniture andfabrics and whatever it can be,
just like speaking in Latin,like it's something that they

(01:00:42):
can't even conceive of, eventhough they interact with all of
these pieces.
But you know, possibly if you'rethe advent of MasterChef or
something like that or just theway things are, if you're
explaining to someone that youknow this dish needs something
wet and something crispy andsomething salty, and then it
needs something soft on the topand a bit of a puff of something
and then a sauce, they go.

(01:01:04):
Yeah, I completely agree.
People, people know when theyeat, it's so fun, oh, I love it.
It's really dry and reallysalty and it's like, yes, it
should have been on a nice wet,creamy something or other that
softened the palate, whatever.
It's so easy to absorb andunderstand, oh that's so fun and
clever yeah it's from my designworld.

(01:01:24):
The eating is there, but justalso because I'm at the mid
button, I just like eating.
So, to answer your question,definitely one of the highlights
this year has been um.
We've got a place um, it's acrumbling literally crumbling
mud rick cottage shack, I daresay is the word um in a place
called carl's rue, which is justoutside of Kyneton and quite
close by to us, about a40-minute drive, is Heatgate.

(01:01:45):
Yeah, and there's an incrediblerestaurant there called
Spawnsea.
It's playing for a thing that'scalled Chauncey, with our
husband and wife team, kirstenand Louis, and you know they're
winning awards I don't knowtomorrow, but we were pretty
lucky to get in there when theywere very early on.
Nothing has changed since thatday, by the way, except for the
amount of people who are now ona wait list.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
But I think that as an experience, I'm going to go
put myself on that wait list.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Yeah, that as an experience and as a drive out is
incredible.
You know it's a minimum fouranglers, but it's not what.
I would call foams and farts,food which I can't eat, like I
don't have the patience for it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Say that again.
What did you say?

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Farts and farts food, like things that obviously have
been done with their tweezersor whatever which there is a
place for it, and no respect,it's just not my particular
enjoyment of eating any foodthat looks like what it says it
is.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
So it's more than four hours because you go for a
walk in the garden and you takeyour drink out and you relax and
go see the vegetables and thechickens.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Oh how beautiful.
That's why it takes so muchexperience.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
It's not just about sitting there and eating.
It's more than that Eating somefarts.
Yeah, exactly, it's awful, butyou know, because I've said it,
now you know exactly what I'mtalking about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
I Hilarious so one last thing and we'll let you get
back on with your day.
Can you think of something totell us that hardly anybody
knows about you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
I do recall reading this question and then I didn't
really put it on the floatingtrain.
I'm a bit nervous.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
I know it's like a bit of a random one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
I don't know, and also because I don't feel like
these days I'm a very privateperson.
I don't know that I've got that.
I mean, you know there'snothing shocking other than you
know I'm obsessed with.
You know, pure dramas,basically written.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
So it's quite often that I don't know whether it's a
symptom of the way my brainworks, but I find a lot of
comfort in repetitious things,so wandering around the house or
the farm with my Downton Abbeyplaying on my phone in my pocket
is something that gives me alot of comfort.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
I love Downton.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Everybody offers a little weirdness.
I love that.
You actually think about what?
Yeah, interestingly, if Iwasn't going to be a designer, I
was thinking about this theother day when someone asked me.
I had two professions in mind.
One was to be a chef.
I could be able to speak to you, so in a weird way, I had a lot
of friends who were teachersand then I ended up my only chef
.
So I feel like I just thoughteverything I needed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Yeah, exactly, you've rounded it out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
And you've given us a beautiful lesson today in
design, so we appreciate that.
And what about?
Does?
Jason love the period dramastoo, so when you're talking
about what you're going to watch, does he?

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
he's not so into it and he definitely has an eye
roll, if you can hear down tomoment in the background.
But it's more, again, it is.
It's more.
It's not just the stories thatare brilliant, it is the design,
it's the houses.
It's something I've alwaysthought about was just, you know
, would I ever live in a housethat would be big and grand
enough that I had a morning roomand an afternoon room so lavish

(01:04:47):
?
In those houses you movedaround the room, depending on
the people that don't do that.
No, no, I think that I'vealways thought about those
things when I'm watching it aswell, as just, you know, sort of
petty drama unfolding, sort ofpetty drama unfolding, although
I would argue that Dan took itquite clever, so yeah, that's it
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
It's funny I'm jumping back to that other
question because I just need toadd this that I didn't know you
were in Karlsruhe.
I knew you were kind of MacedonRanges area because that's
where I grew up as well.
I grew up in Gisborne, but myrelation to food and Karlsruhe
is it was the only like you'vegot the truck stop.
It was the only thing open.

(01:05:24):
So when you were up very lateas a teenager driving around and
doing who knows what, we won'ttalk about that now we would
drive to.
Karlsruhe, just to get snacks.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
That's cute.
I have to tell you that theystill make an amazing and very
clean burda, and it is 10 out of10.
So I'm very aware of the truckstop BP station at Karlsruhe.
It's a very important landmarkfor the town.
So I'm with you, brie, I'm withyou 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
I'll have to make a stop there next time I'm going
out that way again.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Well, speaking of nostalgia, you absolutely will,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Oh, my gosh Prem, that was thebest chat.
Thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I know you're extremely busy and thanks for
the generosity.
Thank you for having me.
This is brilliant.
Squeeze you in pre-Christmas.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
I love what you're both doing.
I love what you're both doing.
I love what you're both doinghere.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
I love what you're both doing individually.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
But as a social experiment, I love what you do,
I love to speak and how you talkabout design and inclusivity.
It's amazing and thanks forhaving me, thanks for being my
friend.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Such a pleasure.
Back at you.
Thanks, brim, see you, bye, bye.
So thank you guys for listeningin and just a quick reminder if
you would like some help withthe interiors for your own home,
I can help you in a coursecalled the Style Studies
Essentials.
Or for designers out there,come into the Design Society for

(01:06:54):
business and marketing and allof the things.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Yeah, and in the same show notes you'll find a link
to sign up for mysoon-to-be-released furniture
collections, pre-selectedfurniture collections and cool
trend information, and then, inthe future, some short courses
on styling and trends as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
So good Bree.
We've got the utmost respectfor the Wurundjeri people of the
Kulin Nation.
For the Wurundjeri people ofthe Kulin Nation, they're the OG
custodians of this unceded landand its waters, where we set up
shop, create and call home andcome to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the

(01:07:36):
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.

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