Symmetry, structure, warmth, and a sense of materiality that's instantly recognisable – these are the hallmarks of David Hicks' approach to design, a philosophy he's refined over an impressive 25-year career. We sit down with this influential Australian designer to trace his evolution from what critics once described as "minimalist purity" to what he now calls "decorative minimalism."
David's journey began with his own apartment in Melbourne's converted Red Tulip Factory, a project that established his meticulous approach to design. Working with a grid system based on 600mm terrazzo tiles, he created a space where every joinery line aligned perfectly with tile grout – a detail-driven approach that still guides his work today. What makes this particularly fascinating is that this career-launching project was created in the pre-Google era, using dial-up internet and hand-drawn plans, when inspiration came from face-to-face networking rather than endless scrolling.
The conversation shifts to how dramatically the design industry has transformed over David's career. Where designers once waited eagerly for monthly magazines or trade representatives bearing materials from international shows, today's instantaneous access to global design via social media has changed how designers work, often prioritising two-second visual impact over thoughtful functionality. Despite these shifts, David has maintained his commitment to balancing what he calls "discipline" (technical expertise in space planning and detailing) with "intuition" (the creative, decorative elements).
After completing over 800 apartments, 75 homes and 125 retail projects, David opens up about what actually keeps a design practice thriving – and it's not what most people imagine. The reality of an interior designer's daily life involves far more administration than fabric selection, though he remains passionate about expanding his creative reach through new collaborations, including an upcoming tapware collection.
For aspiring designers or anyone fascinated by the evolution of Australian design, this candid conversation offers invaluable insights into staying relevant while remaining true to your authentic vision with one of the best in the industry.
Check out David's socials below
Instagram : @davidhicksdesign
Web:
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minimalist purity, now evolvedinto what he calls decorative
(00:22):
minimalism.
Evolved into what he callsdecorative minimalism Think
symmetry, structure, warmth anda structural sense of
materiality that's instantlyrecognizable.
We are very excited to haveDavid here to reflect on his 25
years in design, talk about howthe industry's changed and also
share a few insights into how hestayed at the top of his game.
(00:43):
So if you're a design lover, adetail obsessive or just someone
who believes a well-placedsconce can change your whole day
, if not life, you're going tolove this it changes your life,
for sure I know right, we allget it here.
It's a safe space.
So thank you so much formeeting with us, David.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Pleasure.
Thank you so much for meetingwith us.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
David Pleasure, Thank
you so much for having me.
So 25 years in design that'ssuch a huge accomplishment,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It is, and I think I
mean it's even longer than that,
because you obviously have artstudy and then I worked for
another company while I wasstudying, and then probably for
about four years before Istarted my own practice.
So it's basically most of mylife really.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, I hear you.
So when you look back at yourvery first project, which was
your own apartment, is thatright?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It was yeah.
What do you still love about?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
it.
I'm curious what do you stilllove about it and what would you
change?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Look, I don't think I
would change anything.
I think that it was.
You know there's something tobe said about being a little
green.
You know you don't have anysort of preconceived ideas about
.
You know what's going to beaccepted, what's marketable,
what is your signature?
(02:05):
Look, all of these things thatyou, you know added pressures
that you put on yourself as yougo through working for longer
periods of time.
So I think it was really agreat establishing sort of what
I'm about and it was verydetail-driven.
It was a very small space, itwas only about 110 square meters
and it was an apartment in theRed Tulip Factory, which was in
(02:29):
Prahran in Melbourne.
So I bought a shell and Iwanted to keep it very open.
So there was no doors exceptfor the front door and the door
to the bathroom, and I wanted tokind of have it a bit sort of
like a, you know, very open,sort of gallery-like space.
But then you know, have thebedroom still a bit separated
(02:51):
and the study still a bitseparated.
So my starting point for thedesign was a grid and I chose a
terrazzo tile, 600 by 600.
And so I gridded up the floorand then I worked out the
joinery to sit within that grid.
So all of the lines in thejoinery aligned with the tile
(03:12):
grout and then part of thejoinery would separate the
bedroom from the living room.
And part of the kitchen joineryseparated the main sort of
living area from the study.
It sounds relativelystraightforward but it was
actually quite difficult becauseyou know if you have a 600 tile
that's too small for like awalkway, or you know, an
(03:33):
entrance into another room,whereas two of them 1,200, is
probably too big.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Especially in a small
space.
Right yeah, especially in asmall space.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
For me, the project
was more about the architectural
side of design.
It was because the actual youknow, visual design was very
stripped back, so there was onlya couple of materials.
It was very minimal, which iswhat I really liked at the time.
So in terms of that I wouldn'tchange anything because I still
think now it's relevant and it'sa space that I could easily go
(04:06):
back and live in now and itwould still look.
You know, it could have beendone two years ago, so that's
very cool Something to be said,I think, about the you know,
spatial planning and really gooddetailing and careful choice of
materials.
So that kind of set me up, Ithink, for the rest of my career
in terms of ensuring thatspaces work really well, that
they're timeless, that you knowthe detail that's incorporated
(04:30):
really finesses everything andmaterials chosen are also not
sort of trend led or materialsor colors that are going to go
out of date.
So, yeah, I think, when youdon't have any other sort of
ideas, you don't have Instagramyou don't have.
You know, this was beforeGoogle.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
It's so wild, isn't
it?
Yeah, it's crazy.
How did we even survive?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, I had a
birthday dinner for my 25th year
in business and it was reallyfunny because in my speech I was
talking about when I started inmy study, my apartment, I had
dial-up internet.
I had like just a landline, afax, and everything was drawn by
hand.
Yeah, in fact, yeah and um, Iwas.
(05:12):
I also said that google hadonly been around for a year,
right, and so I think there wasa few younger people there and I
think one of them said to mewell, how did you find stuff?
Right?
It's fine stuff, I don't know,but but that I think I think the
networking became reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Maybe I mean it still
is now, but I think we would
all talk about stuff, or you andthose shows the I feel like you
know trade shows were way moreanticipated and important for
discovering new things, and evenjust having great architectural
reps that would come and go.
Hey, this is new, so there'sprobably a lot more kind of
face-to-face discovery than now.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We'd go like yeah, I
think all of that was a lot more
exciting because you know,especially with the reps that
would come and they'll be likeyou know, I've just been in
Paris, I've just been in Milanand this is like the new stuff
and you haven't seen it becauseit hasn't been on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It was exciting.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
It was exciting and I
remember they used to come and
do like lunchtime presentationonce a week and everyone would
just be like, oh wow, like you'dhave a new material or a new
product or a new whatever.
So it was actually quite aninteresting stage to be a
designer because, like I said,you don't have like it's more
sort of limited on what you canuse and do.
(06:24):
So I think you were morecreative with using a simple
palette, whereas now I think,with overexposure, a lot of
design is about the image, likehow it's going to look.
Yeah, I agree Not so much abouthow it actually works or the
quality of it, or you know howyou interact with it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's more you know
it's got to pack a punch for
like two seconds.
It's so true, it's so different, isn't it?
And it's really interestingwhat you said sort of in the
beginning as well, that youwould still go into that
apartment and enjoy it.
And you know it is somethingabout designing back before you
know social media and let aloneGoogle, but you trusted your own
(07:04):
instinct more, I feel, andbecause you didn't have so many
influences just constantly inyour face all the time, like
you'd sit down with a magazineand be really intentional.
So I don't know, I feel likeit's strange because I studied
at RMIT oh my gosh, so long ago,1998, 1999.
(07:24):
And that was getting themagazines and stuff.
And when I moved house I foundsome of my old assignments and I
was like I actually stillreally enjoy that what I did
back then.
But it's something aboutstaying true to your own style
and what that is.
I think it was easier back then.
I think it was easier becauseyou wouldn't get, maybe and this
might not be the right word butconfused by things that you're
(07:46):
seeing that are popular orgetting attention on social
media.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
So you wouldn't be
kind of like influenced by that
right, I think.
If you want to call it trendswhich is, I think, just a word
I'm using to describe it If youwant to call it that, it was,
there was longer periods.
It was like fashion back then.
There was longer periods thatthings were relevant.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It was, there was
longer periods.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It was like fashion
back then.
There was longer periods thatthings were relevant.
So you know that was in an erathat was quite minimal anyway,
because it was in the sort ofnineties after the massive crash
of the end of the eighties.
So all of the opulence andeverything was was not really a
thing to incorporate into designand it was very much about you,
that john porson, londonminimal sort of anti-decoration,
(08:27):
almost anti-design, and it wasreally about pragmatics and
architectural forms and thingslike that.
So I think that was also reallyembraced in australia because we
didn't have a lot of access toproducts and information that
europeans or americans did.
So I think in that way I thinkit really started to form a very
(08:47):
unique Australian take ondesign, whereas now, you know, I
can see on my phone in bed inthe morning like what's just
been launched in New York orMilan five hours ago or whatever
.
So I think in terms of whatyou're saying it's correct, like
you deviate from where you'reat and what you're doing because
things are changing like hourly.
They're not changing likemonthly or twice a year like
(09:10):
they used to.
They actually change every daylike there's something new.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So it's very hard to
stay focused.
It's funny how you know, like,because part of what I do is
looking at trends and what'shappening and what's developing
and I can look back at thatstage where I would wait with
anticipation for that big, thickfashion mag I had all the
runway stuff in it because werelied a lot on fashion then to
predict trends and I wouldn'tsee it.
(09:35):
Now I see it exactly like yousaid.
I can pick up my phone and seeit five hours after in the
morning and kind of like dissectit, but I would wait for that
magazine and like devour thatand that's how we do it.
So everything just took muchlonger to see and to develop.
And now we see it before it'seven actually happened,
particularly in Australia,because it takes a long time for
(09:55):
say everything we see in Milanto actually arrive here and then
start to have an impact on that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Do you also think,
though, that you know when you
used to get the magazine?
You would probably really studyit and you know the image was
probably bigger, but now, likeyou see a small image because
most people use the phone, yousee a small image.
You probably look at it for oneor two seconds, you know, and
then you move on to the nextimage.
So I don't think anyone'sreally sort of looking at or
(10:22):
analysing the quality or howthings are made or how they're
put together.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
That's true.
I would say I'm probably notthe typical person, because it
depends what it is.
I definitely do a lot ofanalysing and I go back to
things and I do a bit of arabbit hole deep, diving to
stuff that I think is important.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Are you a
screenshotter and enlarger?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Oh, my God, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And also the
screenshots on my phone are out
of control.
I actually need to go backbecause you know when you go
back and go, I don't even knowwhat that was Like.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think you're right, david,like I remember, you know you'd
buy a magazine which was aninvestment when you're a student
and it was quite formative,like what magazine you happen to
pick up and I would lookthrough through every page.
I would even color photocopysome pages that I really liked
(11:08):
and I used to be used to getlike a really fleshed out sort
of um, you know, almost home toa way you could sort of
virtually almost piece thephotos together to create how
the floor plan worked like yeah,I agree, but now you what you
say, you just flip through, you,flip through, you, flip through
it's very surface level um yeah, but yeah, it's a different.
It's just a different world,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
it's a whole
different way of looking at
things, yeah, and I think thatit's a little bit dangerous in a
way, because I think thatpeople are judging things so
quickly and you know, especiallyin design, and it's really now
about the impact, it's notreally about anything else yeah,
no so is that?
yeah, I mean, where is it going?
Do you know what I mean?
(11:47):
Like, because I've I've seenthings on Instagram that are all
over Instagram that think, wow,that's so beautiful, like it
might be a boutique hotel inParis or something like that.
And then when you go there andyou actually look at it in real
life and you think it's actuallynot put together very well, you
I kind of get a little bit letdown.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, it's the smoke
and mirrors thing that we were
talking about before.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that's what I
guess.
A whole big part of my job isalso photographic styling, and
even in a real house the shotsyou see are usually not that
representative of the real home,unless it just happens to shoot
beautifully because we mightmove a chair into a corner where
you would never have that chairand just to create a magic
(12:31):
moment for the image.
So yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
They are very
different things, but but it's
also the technology that'sinfluencing it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's alsotalking about that.
It's also the technology nowthat allows you to.
You know photoshop things.
You know, you might only haveone chair, but you could take a
photo and place it in differentspots around the table and then
overlay all the photos, so thatyou have four chairs.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's so ridiculous,
isn't it what we do?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, so when we used
to shoot projects, we used
to'll be all be shot on film.
But you know, when you'resetting up and to do a proof to
see what the setup andeverything is, like you do a
polaroid right because it wasfilm.
You couldn't actually see theimage, and then you can't really
photoshop the film, so it waswhat you saw is actually what
(13:20):
the space was yes, you couldtrust it now you can't trust
anything you see with ai andeverything yeah, it's not so
much trust, but I don't thinkthat.
Like you know, you see housesnow magazines that are clearly
completely styled, like they'vebrought a whole truckload of
stuff in and they've styled thehouse and moved all the other
furniture out.
And if you look at, you knowsome magazines that have, you
(13:41):
know, say, six projects in ityou can actually see the same
stylist has done all theprojects.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, so yeah well,
or it might not even be the same
stylist, it can just be fromthe same showrooms because and I
can pick that too, because Iknow exactly what's out there
having to do that sourcing sosometimes I'll pick up a um, a
magazine and I'll go well, Iknow that's not actually in the
house, because that particularcolor and fabric is from the
(14:06):
showroom and they would haveloaned it and put it in.
So there is, I mean, yeah,there's kind of that.
I guess a fine line betweenwhat you're looking at in terms
of is that the whole project,because it depends where you go.
I know you sort of go into thatdecorating as well as design,
whereas a lot of projects arejust kind of the architect and
then it's whatever the homeownerhad.
(14:27):
So they have to bring in astyles to be able to shoot it
properly yeah because they don'teven have.
No one's done that part of thework, so the styles kind of does
that part of the work to anextent yeah but um, yeah, the
polaroid thing.
I've only ever done one shoot.
My very first shoot was withpolaroid, so I was just at the
end of that, wouldn't it be cool?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
to get your hands on
those.
We used to do a lot of retailand we used to have, because
there was no such thing as likeled or anything like that.
It was all like fluoro tubes,and we used to have to go in
probably about two or threehours before we started the
shoot and wrap all of the tubeswith like yellow plastic, with
some kind of film that then madethe light warm so it didn't
look like 7-Eleven.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Really, because I
think that's how I know your
work through your retailprojects like Alana Hill and
like back in the day, right they?
Were absolutely stunning, thosestores and what was another?
One that you did on ChapelStreet, oh my.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
God, we did everyone
at some stage.
You did you really were acrosseverything we did, um, we did a
lot for caliber, but then I knowalana hill, uh, we did some
stuff for witchery.
We did all of the kingfurniture showroom.
Oh, my god, we used to do a lotof retail yeah but right back
in the beginning, like withcertain stores, that's what we
(15:42):
used to have to do.
We used to have to like gel,everything that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, that's a really
different time.
It is a different time.
And those alana hills stores sothat just stands out to me
because they were an absolutetreat to visit those jeans, the
patina liano jeans they werelike that the low jeans.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh I know, look, it
was really it was interesting
doing the alana stores becauseit's not really something that
you would associate with what Ido.
But it was a lot of fun becauseI could use the same sort of
principles and detailing andknowledge with space planning
and retail design in thoseprojects but then also really
explore the decorative colourfulside as well.
(16:19):
So I mean, if you look at thoseprojects against my other
projects and don't look at thecolours and the textures, you'll
see a lot of the same kind oflike detailing and you know that
more.
A lot of the same kind of likedetailing and you know that more
precise kind of modernistdesigner study.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, this is really
interesting and I was curious to
know with your work because youknow you were talking about
your apartment, which was quitea minimalist apartment, the
project that kind of launchedyour career, would you say.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Look, I don't know
whether it launched my career,
but it certainly was.
You know what do they say whenyou start, when a designer or
architect starts their business,you always do stuff for family
or friends, or you know thingslike that.
So I think it was somethingamazing to have, but I think
that generally for a lot ofpeople it was probably too
confronting, Like a lot ofpeople wouldn't want to live in
(17:04):
a space like that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, but then, on
the other hand, as you were
saying, you know your AlanaHills stores, which were more
decorative, and it's reallyinteresting that you do both
equally as strong.
Yeah, Was there like a go forit?
It's the same fundamentals.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It's the same
fundamentals that I use in my
projects and then like because Ilook at it as three separate
things.
So I look at it as architecture, then interior design, but then
I look at it as decoration, soyou know the finishes, that you
choose on materials and thecolors and things like that.
(17:41):
They're really more decorative.
You know interior design is.
You know designing of joineryand designing of.
You know how the floor patternis going to be, but then you
choose the stone or thedifferent materials that have
the colour and the pattern.
So then there's a morearchitectural side which deals
with the planning, and you knowhow you integrate services like
mechanical or structuralengineering or things like that.
(18:03):
So I always look at it as thosethree things working as one.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah.
And at the end of those threethings working as one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And at the end of the
day, they are one.
If you have that yeah, I mean,if you have that you can then
the first two stages are prettysimilar, so the architectural
stage and the interior designstage, but then the decorative
stage is what allows you to playand change things.
So you know you could have likea plain fabric on the wall, or
you could have like anoutrageous fabric on the wall.
So that's what switches thingsup and that's where I probably
(18:31):
didn't have much knowledge onthe decorative side of things
when I started, and it'ssomething that I've really sort
of taught myself and learnedabout as I progressed through my
career, because I think that'sa really important part of
design and it's becoming a lotmore important.
It never used to be so.
I think the word decoration nowis not like as dirty as it used
(18:51):
to be.
When I started, you were eitheran architect, you were either
an interior designer or you wereeither a decorator.
You were never all threetogether.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, we've talked
about this before.
We have Back, then I would havebeen really insulted if people
had called me a decorator.
Yeah, and I used to explain topeople no, no, no, I'm not a
decorator, like I'm an interiordesigner and like tried to tell
what the difference becausepeople, I think, associated them
as the same thing if youweren't in the industry.
(19:20):
But now I couldn't care less,because I think decorating
actually can be more funsometimes.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
But you also see the
360 as well.
Like you see all of thearchitects now and they'll have
architecture and interior design.
Yeah, because they don't wantto miss out on.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
They used to be
looking down on us while we
looked down on the decoratorsCorrect.
But I also think, you know, Ithink if you've studied
architecture, they look downhopefully not so much anymore,
but they might look down ondecorators but they think they
can do that.
They think that because they'rearchitects they can do that.
And I actually think thatdecoration is such a specialist
(19:58):
skill you know where we'retalking about when we started
this chat.
You've got this sublime fabrichanging in your background, that
data, data fabric, like workingwith fabrics, working with
proportion and scale and all ofthose things a decorator does,
like I mean, I would beterrified if you asked me to
measure up a window.
Yeah, it's just not my skillset.
So I think that it's reallynice to see that decoration has
(20:22):
as you said it's not like adirty word what it used to be.
I feel, like it's really changedbut it's also mean.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Decoration is like
hundreds and hundreds of years
old.
It's like you know.
It's just not really taughtanymore.
There is so much knowledge tobe learned about the decorative
arts, you know, which a lot ofdesigners don't know about you
know, it's like periods offurniture.
It's like how specificfurniture, why it was finished
in a certain way.
You know it's like periods offurniture.
It's like how specificfurniture, why it was finished
(20:48):
in a certain way.
You know, periods of fabric howis it woven, what materials are
woven out of?
You know, does it?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
shrink or does it not
shrink?
There's so much to know.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
It just goes on and
on and on.
It's like architecture anddesign.
It's like also something thatthere's just so much history and
so much to learn about,something that there's just so
much history and so much tolearn about.
And I think, as I've progressedthrough my career, I've kind of
taken the thought that it'sbetter to know as much as
possible, even the things youdon't like or don't want to
(21:18):
implement, because you know youcan.
Then, if a client wants toimplement something or use
something, you can then actuallytell them the story about it
and why you don't want to use itand be more authoritative about
something.
Yes, so I think you know.
It's like the old sayingknowledge is power 100 so good
um.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm watching the
gilded age at the moment.
Have you watched that?
Yeah, I have to wait for moreepisodes, though I know like
it's not really an era that Iwould have been drawn to, but I
mean, you have to appreciate howincredible it is, and I think
that the way that design istaught and architecture is
taught in Australia, it startsat the Bauhaus, yeah, and we're
(21:57):
just missing out on so much.
So, yeah, I totally agree whatyou say there.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, I think that,
though I mean what you were
saying is, I think that it'salso a reflection on, I suppose,
how young Australia is and wedon't have such a vast history
of architecture and design anddecoration.
So, I think you know we don'tgo too much further back, sort
of mid-century or 20s, becausewe don't have a lot of that
(22:24):
history.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
If you do go down
Chapel Street, as we sort of
mentioned, like there are 1880s,if you look at the dates on the
top of the buildings, you know,there was a huge, yeah, a whole
.
I just wonder if we value itenough here, the history of
anything like you know when youI'm going up on a slight tangent
and I'll put it back, but youknow the amount of even just
beautiful buildings, residentialbuildings, that will be knocked
(22:46):
down and not looked after andwe're going to lose a lot of
that, I think.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Oh, we've already
lost so much Like, if you look
at old photos of St Kilda Roadand Toorak Road.
There were mansions all the waydown.
Yeah Well, I mean even onToorak Road, you know opposite
Faulkner Park there's thisincredible mansion.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Even on Toorak Road,
you know, opposite Faulkner Park
there's this incredible mansionand they've kept.
We might keep a facade, butthen we absolutely gut the
interior yeah, I was so cross tosee what they'd done.
I was like what about thestaircase that was there?
What about all of the mouldingsinside?
Is that is the exterior, theonly thing that's going, and
(23:25):
part of that is.
I think part of that is and Iguess you see it to some extent
in the UK where it's just somuch money to maintain some of
these buildings that there's noone putting the money into it
because nobody cares enoughabout it or it's been let go to
the point where it can't bemaintained without a huge influx
of cash or it costs so much tomaintain it.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, but you know,
that's why you see in the
countryside probably more so inItaly and France is that you
know they're basically trying togive these houses away.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, because you
almost need to spend more on it,
right, it's going to cost youfive or ten million to bring it
back to life.
So they see that, as that wasin that episode, the series, the
White Lotus series in Italy.
That was the whole thing aboutwhy they looked like they were
all cashed up and had money butactually that was so broke
because they were putting allthe money in to try and maintain
(24:17):
just that home.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So, david, I'm so
curious because I've been in
business for 12 years not aslong as you, but I've been an
interior designer for a bitlonger than that.
How do you stay creativelyenergized after designing 800 or
so apartments, 75 homes and 125retail spaces Not that I'm
counting.
That's some stats for you.
(24:40):
Bloody hell, I know when I wasputting them together.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
When I was putting
them together, when I was
putting them together for my umbirthday speech, it was like
because we're counting up allthe projects, because you know
we've got like the full historyof everything, and I just
thought, wow, okay, well, nowonder I'm exhausted explains a
lot yeah, did you find yoursleep in?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
between all of that,
did you find your creativity?
Does it ebb and flow, or is itkind of steady?
Or how do you maintain that youknow that energy?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
uh, I think it is.
I think the energy is more inum, you know, constantly keeping
the business going and, and youknow, getting jobs and sort of
perfecting the, the art ofclient experience and
expectations and all of that.
So I think that's where a lotof the drive is for me.
But in terms of creativity, Ikind of it's more subconscious
(25:30):
for me.
Like I don't like, say, I'mgoing to Milan, I mean I don't
take a lot of photos.
I don't like um, because youknow, like you said before, I
mean all you do is end up withthem all on your phone and you
can't find them anyway so.
I think for me it's more.
It's more like intuitive, solike I might be sitting down and
looking at a concept and then Imight think oh, I actually saw
(25:50):
that, you know doorway in Milanand or I saw this on Instagram
or, and it kind of comes backand then I look at incorporating
it.
But you know, that's just theway that I work.
It's like even in clientmeetings I don't write anything
down and people get really kindof a little bit funny about that
because they think is he reallylistening to me?
Is he going?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
to remember.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
So that's the way I
kind of work.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Like I kind of retain
information.
It's cool.
I agree with that, with theMilan thing or with that
inspiration, probably even to anextent.
You know, even though I am ascreenshotter, I hardly ever
look back at those things, but Iguess if you've taken a moment
to take interest in it, it makessome kind of imprint on you and
I think that's how we, I guess,make something new of the
(26:32):
things we see and not just copywhat they are.
There's those, all those littlemoments kind of sink in and
then you kind of come out withsomething that's maybe
influenced by those things butis different and I think that's
a particular way of working.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I mean, there's some
other people that might have big
boards and like pin everythingto the boards and you know, make
a story, you know, which isfine.
It's just not the way that I dothings.
So, I mean, I keep thecreativity by.
You know traveling and learningabout you know the decorative
arts and going to flea marketsand you know really researching
(27:05):
things, like I might seesomething on Instagram or in a
magazine and think, oh, that'sreally interesting.
But rather than retain thatimage, I will actually go on
Google and, you know, really tryand learn more about that.
So, it then becomes a bit moreingrained rather than just
keeping an image.
So I'm a little bit more intothe history behind things than
(27:27):
just the image.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, I love that.
You've said, design is bothabout the discipline and
intuition, which is kind of likea little what you're saying.
But how?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
do you?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
know whether to be
guided by that intuition versus
the discipline.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I think there's
different roles that they play
into a project.
So for me, discipline wouldprobably be more about the space
planning and the detail andlearning how things are going to
work together, so even down tothicknesses of materials and how
can they be used and how arethey actually fixed to the wall
(28:03):
or the floor and what's the edgelike and how's that going to be
when it cuts into somethingelse so I think that is kind of
the more rigorous side of it.
And then I think the intuitiveside is a bit more um, of the
free um freeness of it which isyou know, you're not.
You know, when you're lookingat materials and everything and
you're not sure about what touse and things like that, your
intuition kind of takes over andstarts to put all of those more
(28:27):
decorative things together.
So I think for me they sort ofplay off each other.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, so yeah, you
can't just be like, oh, I'm
going to use my intuition tojudge that that support is going
to be enough to hold the it'sso true, though, I feel like
being good at the details, soyou can have amazing intuition
and concepts and all of thatstuff, but if you don't have the
(28:52):
discipline side, understandinghow materials work and can come
together I think it's reallyhard to get all that detailing
beautifully.
You know, like precise.
And that's what for yourprojects.
That definitely stands out assomething you know that you do
very well is the details, andthen there's the layer of that
intuition kind of over the topof it.
So it kind of gives this sortof structure to your projects in
(29:13):
a way.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, but I also
think that you know you can have
a good idea and put together agreat concept and you know it
could be absolutely phenomenal,but if you can't deliver it,
then is it a good idea?
I don't know.
Like no one's gonna see it, sogreat.
There is a lot more to interiordesign than creating some
beautiful mood boards yeah, well, exactly, I mean, when people
(29:36):
say what do you do and I sayinterior design, they go oh wow,
like you know, I've alwayswanted to do that.
How amazing it must be so muchfun, right?
And then I think, I think ifyou saw what I did, 90% of the
day you wouldn't want to be aninterior designer oh, it grieves
.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
It's like it is fun
most of the time and obviously
we wouldn't do it if we didn'tlove it and I don't think that
would show in in the quality ofthe work if you didn't have the
love.
But people don't understandthat it's not all just no, this
is pretty and like, sometimesexactly mean.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Sometimes I feel like
I'm a.
What do I say to the guys inoffice?
I say I feel like I'm a deskclerk, like you know, with all
my paperwork and you know,returning emails.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I know that feeling.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
You know it's
stapling things together and
putting them in trays and it'syou know, and then for 10
minutes that day I might look atsome fabrics.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
So yeah, it so.
Percent it's yeah, it's very,very different, I think, to what
people perceive.
And I've had your team.
Sorry, how many people do youhave on your team, david?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
so there's only three
of us um that's nice.
I've always kept that yeah I'vealways kept the office really
small um.
I think the most we've beenover 25 years is seven um.
But I because I like to be veryheavily involved in all the
projects same, not just design,but in project management and
client interface as well.
I've kept the office small toenable me to do that, because I
(30:57):
like the whole process.
I don't want to end up justdoing like 10% of the process or
just managing staff, managingpeople like that's or there's
that too.
Yeah, not for me.
Yeah, yeah, not for me.
So when you said before, like90%.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
You know that they
don't see.
What is that 90%?
What does that look like?
You know you mentioned a deskclerk swimming in emails, which
I feel like an absoluteavalanche of emails every day.
But I'm curious like what doesyour day-to-day look like?
I'm curious like what does yourday-to-day look like?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
So you know it can be
anything really, but a lot of
the time it's, you know, likemarking things up, marking up
details, marking up drawings.
You know sending people CADfiles putting together drop
boxes.
You know.
Writing information for mediato do press stories can be, some
(31:47):
accounting can be, you know itcould be anything like that.
It's not necessarily standingaround and putting light samples
together and creating a concept.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, you know, I had
a client meeting the other day
and there I was literally doingthe interior decorating thing,
waving around a fabric hanger,and she said, oh my, my gosh,
you have the best job, you're solucky.
All these fabrics, these tiles,and and this client she works
in corporate, she's got a reallyhigh pressure job and she's
really like so intelligent andI'm just like, oh my god, this
(32:20):
is like you're waving around afabric.
It's like your job is insane tome, like you are just next
level.
So it's.
And it is funny, isn't it?
That perception it's like thisis is insane to me, like you are
just next level.
And it is funny, isn't it, thatperception it's like this is
the only time I literally wavearound a fabric is to show you
what it's going to look like.
Every other time I'm behind myscreen or all the things you
said drop boxes and going nutswith all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
But it's like you
know you're waving around the
fabric and if they say somethinglike that, it's like do you
know how many other fabrics Ihad to look at just to bring you
this one fabric?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Yeah, that's what I
was going to say 100 billion.
There is such a thing as fabricoverwhelm.
I find fabrics, I love them,but I can walk into a showroom
and just in the end walk outfeeling worse than I did when I
walked in.
Unless you just found thatthing.
Like that's it.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
It can just be so
many things and when and I like
too many of them, so you've gotto try to like.
You know, yeah, or you knowthat the other funny thing about
it as well is, like you knowyou might be looking for, say, a
red velvet, but then you lookat about 50 red velvets but
they're not the right red andyou know it's like having a
massive ward, it's like having amassive wardrobe and going in
there and like complaining I'vegot nothing to wear.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I know, I'm like
there's something wrong with me,
because you guys have got 1,000different types of red there.
I must be able to find it here,but I can't.
There's something wrong with me.
What about that extra 10%?
What's the stuff that you lovedoing?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, I actually like
all of the other part as well,
the process part, but I do love,I love like I do hand sketching
.
I love putting together likematerial palettes and looking at
different finishes andmaterials I also really enjoy.
I do a lot of detailing by handbefore the guys put onto the
computer, so I like sort ofworking through and thinking
(34:08):
about how something's going tobe put together.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I still do that too.
Maybe it comes from learningthat way.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, it's more.
I think the really enjoyableparts are the more you know
doing things with your handsalmost because I don't know how
to use CAD, so I'm very much aprint it out and read it kind of
person, or, you know, sketch itwith a pen, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, love it.
I have kind of upped my gameslightly in this.
I like to.
I'm a sketcher too.
It's just how I get everythingfrom here out of I don't know.
I don't know how else tocommunicate, but I now do it on
my iPad, so at least it'sdigital, so it's easy to kind of
put it into documents andthings instead of better on
paper though it's weird, isn'tit?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
yeah, I mean I find
that sorry.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I was gonna say I
might do like a quick sketch on
a piece of paper and go, oh yep,I'll do that now, and then I'd
go to do it on the iPad and it'snever as good no, I know that
it's.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Um, yeah, it's funny
like the way that you you've
taught yourself over the yearsbecause even even like when I
get you know documents sent tome or you know, say, a legal
document or something like that,like you know how people like
do it on the screen and they'llput like a comment box or
whatever, I always like print itout red pen all over it, cross
it out, scan it, send it backPeople hate it.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I just feel like it
sinks into your brain better
when you see it on a piece ofpaper.
I don't know, I miss stuff onthe screen.
So do I miss stuff on thescreen?
So apparently that's an actualfact, like they've done tech.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
They've done, you
know, research into it and it is
, yeah, you read a book asopposed to a screen.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
You take more of it
in yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
So coming back to
your question, what?
What's?
The things I enjoy most is thethings that I do by hand or you
know, like sketching or lookingat materials, putting material
palettes together, so it'sthings I'm not really doing on a
computer.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, I hear yeah
With your book A Private World
of Interiors that was released.
Was it 2016 or something?
When was that?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh God, I think so.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
A little while ago,
yeah.
Is there like a project in thatthat really stands out, that
you're like, oh my God, that waslike really special.
Can you play favorites?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
you were like oh my
god, that was like really
special.
Can you play favorites?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I find it very hard
to play favorites um trying to
think of the projects in thereand sometimes they're favorite
for different reasons, likesometimes I've had projects
where I really enjoyed workingwith the client and when it came
to photographing it I wanted toinclude some of their pieces
and stuff, but then pitching itto press.
They didn't really pick it upbut I was like I still love that
(36:43):
project.
It's not always just about howit looks in the photos.
At the end of the day it's likethe people and how cool they
were and how much they lovetheir home.
It's fulfilling in a differentway.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, look, I think
there's a couple in there where
we designed the building, theinterior and did the decoration.
So I think for me there's twohouses in there that have that
full, you know, rounding off ofwhat we do, and I think they're
very fulfilling because you cankind of sculpt the whole project
(37:18):
from start to end and you'renot relying on other consultants
like another architect or youknow a stylist, or sorry, you're
not relying on other externalpeople.
So I think there's a couple ofthose where I think, oh wow,
they're just really, reallyamazing projects because we were
able to be involved ineverything.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, we're not
control freaks at all.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
No, not at all.
We want to do it all we want tohave our hands on everything.
And yeah, yeah, I mean, there'salso another project in there,
which is a beautiful old house,and we mainly did decorative
works to it.
I would say it's more of adecorative project than an
interior project, but that Ialso love, like I love the whole
process of really getting into,like you know, all the fabrics
(38:04):
and the furniture and customfurniture you know wallpaper and
curtains and it was reallyrefreshing not to have to.
It was refreshing to start withsomething amazing and then just
add that embellishment to itwithout changing the original
house.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, that's cool If
you could travel back to young
David fresh out of RMIT.
What advice would you give himbefore he started his practice?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Go back and study
banking.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
That's hilarious.
Why that is so funny?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
um, because I don't,
like we were saying before, I
don't think people realize howhard it actually is what we do,
and it's something that you haveto have a passion for to stay
in this industry.
I agree it's not so true it's.
It's an industry that you canhave a great business and a
great life and all that sort ofstuff, but it's not something to
do if you want to make a stackload of money.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
So you know it was a
bit of a joke.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It's so funny I
probably wouldn't have done
anything else.
I mean, it's the only thingthat I've ever wanted to do?
Speaker 1 (39:08):
You could have
studied banking or, like you
know, stocks and all of that andthen just sort of done that in
the background, so that couldmake you money while you do the
interior design.
Maybe I should have justmarried a banker.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
That's an easier way.
Then you could afford to employan interior designer.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
That's right, and
then just take over their job,
just have a nice little hobby,business yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
I used to joke with a
friend of mine and we used to
say you know, I want to be sosuccessful that I have enough
money to employ an interiordesigner to do my house.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
I know It'd be such a
luxury, though, wouldn't it, to
like pick your favorite otherinterior designer and get them
to actually come and dosomething for you.
I actually think I'd reallyenjoy being the client.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
It'd be wild,
wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Wouldn't it, but I
think it's so true though.
Thank you for for saying that,because, um, it's competitive,
it's tough.
You have to wear many hats, somany, so many hats, like as you
were saying you've got to havethick skin.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
You do.
Yeah, you've got to be like I'mgonna march on.
I don't really mind what yousay, I'm just gonna keep going
well, it's like what you saidbefore with that project that
you really got to be like I'mgoing to march on, I don't
really mind what you say.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
I'm just going to
keep going.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, it's like what
you said before with that
project that you really like andstill like, but it wasn't
picked up by editorial, sothere's, you know if you're in
it for the adoration, thenyou're not going to last very
long.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, well, at the
end of the day, it's my client's
property, it's their home, yes,and I think, um, because I just
enjoyed working with them somuch and I wanted to put in some
of their personality into thespace with their special pieces.
But the funny thing is, um, itonly got a few images picked up
here and there by the differentpress, but it's on my website
(40:52):
and it's actually one that otherclients talk about.
so it's something about probablysay that personality and
connection to the client maybe,whereas magazines are looking
for something entirely differentsometimes and they don't see it
.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So I mean, that's
another thing that you have to
do as well.
You have to stick by what youbelieve in and what you do, even
if it is not so popular for awhile.
Or you know, like at the momentthere's a definite look going
on and it's completely differentto what I do.
So you know, I'm not going togo jump on that bandwagon
because I like what I do, yes.
So I think that you have to bequite stoic and weather the
(41:29):
storm of other design and youknow, trying to stay relevant.
There's so much that goes intoso much.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I think, in the end,
though, what makes a great
designer is one that isauthentic and stays true to that
, because I think, if youcontinually change yourself to
fit the narrative, the currentnarrative, you will get lost in
it anyway.
You won't stand out right.
You're just going to be anotherone of the people that are just
kind of doing the same thing,yeah, and it's just.
You know, like if you look atany great artist like music, yes
(41:57):
, you have to evolve, but youevolve for yourself, in your own
.
You know direction and whereyou want to go.
You don't do it for I don'tknow the popularity.
I mean, yeah, some people do,but like it does, I don't think
that you don't stand out doingit that way me.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Coming back to that
question.
You said you know what do youdo.
What do you do for what's atypical day?
Look like um for you, and youknow.
To use an analogy, it could belike well, I bang my head
against a brick wall for likeseven hours and then I and then
because I'll put out fires.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I'm putting out fires
of things that have gone
sideways and exploded.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah put a.
Well, yeah, you could probablysay you bang your head against a
brick wall for four hours, putout eyes for three hours and
then do half an hour of designum, yeah, it's so funny.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And then?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
finish with a bottle
of wine.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
It's an addiction,
you know you, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
You wouldn't be doing
it if you were addicted to it.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well, we probably.
As much as we kind of hate someof those parts of those things,
I think we probably also enjoythe rollercoaster of it, right?
We kind of thrive on the upsand downs.
If it was steady and boring, wewouldn't be in this job.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
A hundred percent,
and you're also trying to better
it next time.
So there's always like-.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, the challenge
of that.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
a hundred percent the
challenge and look, looking
forward to the next one.
You know, yeah, that's verytrue, the carrot dangling expect
you to.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, the continual
carrot, but it's so funny
because I think your business,david, it does look very
glamorous and luxurious, so youknow it does.
It's quite different to whatyou're saying.
The daily struggles struggleslike it's real, isn't it?
It's not all the glamorous sideof it that we do every day.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
No, not at all.
Not at all.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
And you know it is
hard as well in residential.
I don't know so much aboutcommercial, but you know there's
ebbs and flows in the market,like there is a dip happening in
Melbourne, as far as I can seethat talking to a lot of
designers are really quiet.
So you know it's what'shappening in Melbourne, as far
as I can see that talking to alot of designers are really
quiet.
So you know it's what'shappening in the world.
All of these different thingscan trickle down and shape our
(44:03):
little tiny businesses well, forme anyway, and those things are
just out of your control.
But how and what's your sort ofsplit now?
Are you doing commercial andand resi?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
So we do.
We're doing a lot of likeprivate work.
I call it private work, so youknow houses or apartments, but
we also do quite a bit ofdecorative stuff as well.
And we've got the other side ofit is we do increasingly more
really high-end resi developmentstuff.
So there might only be likefive apartments or ten
(44:33):
apartments.
But it's funny what you sayabout the Melbourne market, like
I think probably 80% of ourwork is in Sydney at the moment.
Seriously, yeah, so it'sinteresting and I think
Melbourne will start to pick upagain towards the end of the
year.
But I think it's been very sortof Sydney focused for the last
couple of years.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I'm hearing the same
thing talking to Sydney
designers about how, you know,the Melbourne market has dropped
off and it's quiet, inquirywise and just generally work
wise for so many of us.
But then I speak to people inSydney and they're like we're
not experiencing that at all.
So it is interesting.
I think Melbourne still has avery big COVID hangover.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, I think so and
I think.
But I also think the dynamicshave changed in terms of resi
projects.
I think there's less peoplerenovating or decorating houses
because a lot of them are goinginto these sort of like larger
apartment style.
You know luxury residentialdevelopments, developments and I
(45:40):
feel like that resi work ismore architectural.
You know where it's probably ayounger demographic building
their family home, they're moreconcerned about the
architectural side of it thanthe actual decorative side of it
, because you know they've gotkids and they've got lifestyle
and they've got all of that andit's got to be a bit more
practical.
And so I really think thelandscape of the resi type of
work has changed.
And if you're not in thatdevelopment space as well, I
(46:04):
think it would be very hard atthe moment because there's not a
huge amount of like individualresi work.
I don't think unless you're anarchitect.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, that's a good
point yeah, so I.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
So I think it really
has shifted and I think that
resi work used to be kind oflike oh you know, like you kind
of do it if you have to.
But I honestly think it's thefuture of Melbourne and Sydney
and that's where you know a lotof resi for interiors, a lot of
resi projects are going to comefrom, because you know land's
too expensive.
(46:34):
Building a whole house is tooexpensive.
A lot come from because youknow land's too expensive.
Building a whole house is tooexpensive.
A lot more people are buyinginto apartments and a lot of
people that buy into apartmentsmight not have kids or their
kids are older or you know theymight have more than one house
or so they can afford to be alittle bit more.
You know frivolous in in howthings are designed and use,
like you know, cream carpets anduse this and use that because
they don't have to worry aboutyou know dogs or kids.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
But then it's the
grandkids.
It's like, oh come on.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
It can be the
grandkids, but you know we do
have some clients like that, butthe grandkids are only allowed
in certain rooms.
Love it.
So I do think there's a shift.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, so I mean, with
25 years in business, you know
you.
You really there's been aglobal financial crisis, there's
been COVID, there's been like,you know so many things and I
think what we're experiencingnow is just another dip.
But, um, I'm curious, what is?
What is um on the cards for thenext 25 years for David Hicks?
God, next 25 years it's wild,isn't it, to think about a long
(47:34):
time ago.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
it's a long time to
go um gosh, I don't know A
couple of face lists at least.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
What about just next?
Speaker 2 (47:40):
year.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Is it Istanbul now
that we go to?
Is it Turkey?
Speaker 2 (47:46):
or something.
A few trips to Turkey.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
It's a different kind
of architecture, isn't?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
it.
It's a difficult question.
I think I will probably startat some stage doing my own
projects as well in terms oflike kind of development, but
maybe build a house and sellthat and probably do a few
things like that continue whatI'm doing.
I'm moving a little bit intocollabs in product.
(48:13):
That's cool, exciting.
Yeah, it's really exciting.
So we're doing a range of tapcollabs in product.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
That's cool, exciting
.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah, it's really
exciting.
So we're doing a range oftapware with Sussex.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Oh my gosh, I love
Sussex.
That is very cool.
They're like my favouritetapware brand, Vanessa.
She's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, she's great.
So we've designed a range withthem which will be coming out
later this year.
We're also working with anothercompany which I can't really
say, but it's a you knowbathroom sort of product Great.
And then we're talking toanother one about you know
something else.
So it's sort of deviating intothings that we use in all of our
(48:51):
projects.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, I love that,
but things that we can't find
what we want.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Like we can find it
overseas but it's so expensive.
So it's kind of bringingbecause I think a lot of like
ranges in Australia.
Everything's really slick andlike very minimal and very like
there's not really any, I agree,you know, there's not really
any sort of decorative orinteresting finishes or things
like that.
So it's more about bringingthat more sort of european style
(49:18):
to the products that are alsomade in australia.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Great, what else have
you got?
Something that you haven't,that you're not doing, that
you'd love to do, like fabricrange wallpaper, I don't know
car interiors, um, probablythings out there in terms of
product probably yeah, fabric,but because I could see you
doing that, I think that wouldthat could come.
But in terms of productprobably, yeah, fabric.
But because I could see youdoing that, I think that would
that could come.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
But in terms of
projects, I mean I'd love to do
a hotel, boutique hotel.
Yeah, that'd be pretty amazing.
Uh, I don't know, just biggerhouses with bigger budgets, I
hope yeah, it's not too much toask.
Come on, come on universe comeon, they yeah, they should be
knocking my door down.
What's going on?
Speaker 1 (49:56):
So good, oh, so good.
Thanks, david.
Thank you so much for the chat.
That was so fun.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Thanks so much.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Congratulations again on 25years.
Thank you.