March 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Join us for a candid and entertaining exploration of the funny and humbling side of interior design as we share our biggest mistakes and the lessons they taught us. From disastrous color choices in children's rooms to the importance of careful client involvement, we cover a range of design fails that all professionals face at some point in their careers. By recounting our blunders, we hope to inspire and educate aspiring designers about the realities of the profession and the invaluable insights that come from mistakes.
As we discuss how to avoid the pitfalls of over-promising or under-quoting and the need for strong communications with tradespeople, we reflect on essential tips for navigating the design landscape. We also delve deep into the psyche behind colour selection and its impact on a space, aiming to provide listeners with practical advice they can apply to their future projects. Through light-hearted and humorous storytelling, it serves as a reminder that design is a journey filled with growth through vulnerability.
If you enjoy our discussions, we encourage you to connect with us through social media, share your own experiences, and join in on the conversation about the ups and downs of design. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and engage with us as we continue to demystify the world of interior design!
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers me, brie
Banfield and me, lauren Lee,with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
And today we are it's just usand we are going to be talking
about interior design fails, butonly the ones that we're happy
to admit to, exactly, becauseotherwise this episode would
(00:22):
probably go for a while.
No, and we have to.
You know, you've got to put onthe front a little bit, right,
we are professionals, we areexperts, there's no doubt about
that, but everybody makesmistakes and sometimes you just
don't know what you don't know,as you like to say, lauren,
(00:43):
until you go.
Hang on, actually, that's notquite right, and I've learned
something.
So it's all about learning.
Mistakes are all about learning, right, exactly, and I mean
with what we do, with interiordesign, styling, decorating
there's just so many movingparts and you're just dealing
with, sometimes, a propertythat's like over 100 years old.
There's unforeseen things thathappen, and not to mention all
(01:05):
of the different people that weneed to rely on to make our
vision come true.
Yes, but education is the keyhere, right?
Because if we're talking aboutour mistakes, then maybe you
won't make the same ones I don'twant you to make the same
mistakes.
Why should you?
Hopefully, exactly.
We can kind of learn from eachother.
And yeah, it is kind ofvulnerable to talk about the
(01:28):
mistakes you've made because youdon't want to come across as an
idiot.
No, no, totally.
Yeah, no, you know we'retalking with friends here, so
we'll be all right.
Yes, that's right.
We'll keep it all amongstourselves, won't we?
Totally.
Thanks, thanks everyone.
Before we get started, I justwanted to remind you guys that
if you're an interior designerand you want a bit of support in
(01:49):
your business, you want to grow.
You've got big ambitions andthis is the year you want to
make it happen.
I'd love to help you in theconversation circle.
There is a little link in thenotes If you want to join.
We're starting off in May andwe're going to a small group of
emerging designers, a smallgroup of established designers.
It's going to be great.
(02:10):
What have you got coming on?
Bree?
Too many things, yeah, I know,but same thing.
Jump into the show notes.
There's a link there.
Sign up for a newsletter fromme.
We're going to be sending outregular trend information, which
is always fun, and just newsabout what offers we've got
going in terms of ourcollections that we'll be
(02:33):
releasing soon, which arepre-selected decor for different
rooms to make it easy for youto create amazing spaces on a
budget.
Yeah, and more, I'm sure.
So smart.
Well, I mean, it would be rudeof us not to mention that we are
going to Paris and Milan forMilan Design Week.
So rude, so rude, so sorry.
(02:56):
We haven't really mentioned itthat much, but we kind of put
the word out to do a design tourand actually we filled the
spots pretty quickly and we'regoing to do a design tour and
actually we filled the spotspretty quickly and we're going
to do it again.
So if you want to come with ussee gorgeous interiors, fill
your inspiration cup, um, we'dlove to hear from you.
So maybe we should pop anotherlittle link in there.
(03:16):
You can pop your name down onthe list, yeah, yeah, and we'll
be opening that wait list soonfor next year and obviously
follow us on socials lauren's,mine and design anatomy.
Those are all in the show notesas well, and you can see what
amazing things we get up to,which you're going to want to be
there next year.
Oh my gosh, it'll be not one ofus out.
(03:37):
The amount of beautiful spaceswe're going to see.
You'll be like, okay, that wascute in the beginning, but oh my
god, I can't take any more ofit, I've got to mute them.
Well, you know, you could muteus or you could just come along
for the next one.
That's right and we really loveto.
You know, it's about having areally small group.
We don't want to make it feellike a school excursion, so we
(03:59):
want to get to know everyone andanyway, it's going to be so
great.
Yeah, I'm very much lookingforward to it.
Same.
Shall we talk about our topic?
Yeah, let's do it all right.
Well, I think, um, one of myfirst big design mistakes was I
had um graduated at RMIT.
I did interior design anddecoration.
(04:20):
I worked for a interiordecorator.
I was, uh, down on theMornington Peninsula and it was
a wild experience, isn't itfunny when you look back and you
go, I don't really think myboss knew what she was doing.
Oh my God, I hope people don'tsay that about me.
Oh no, well, shit, I was only20.
(04:40):
I think I turned 21,.
You know, during that time.
So I sure didn't know what Iwas doing.
You know I had thisqualification.
So you know that takes you,that gets you a foot in the door
, doesn't it?
And that's probably after that.
That's where all the learningreally starts.
So, anyway, we had this client.
We had chosen, you know,fabrics, wallpapers and
furniture and everythingdecoration.
(05:00):
And then there was the son'sroom and the the um, my boss
said why don't you go and dothat one?
So we chose out a gorgeouswallpaper and I thought what you
would do is have a wallpaper asa feature wall and you just
pick out a color in thatwallpaper to paint the rest of
the walls like.
It sounds good in theory, right, but when that color that I
chose out of the wallpaper was ashade of blue, it's like
(05:22):
facebook blue, like it was sointense, you know the button and
it was like vibrating.
The room was like so bright itwas not.
You know, I think this is whatone of my big lessons was how do
you want the space to feel?
Yes, and such a good lesson too.
Yeah, it's not just aboutcoordinating, is it?
(05:44):
You've got to think a littlebit further about those colours
that you're putting together.
Definitely, you know, in theoryit sounds like the right thing
to do.
Pick out a colour from thewallpaper that you like, but for
a I think it was like a toddler.
It is a very energising spaceto be in, bouncing off the walls
Exactly, I don't know.
(06:07):
You know, now I have a four, athree-year-old boy.
Um, the last thing I want himto do is feel really energized.
You know like, oh, they'vealready got so much energy, I
don't need to add to that.
So you want their bedroomexactly to be a space for sleep,
for rest, and, you know, tohold their toys and things like
that.
You know they usually don'treally play in their bedrooms,
(06:28):
but it's a place for rest.
So how can we think about that?
And I mean in terms of mistakesto make repainting a room.
It's not the worst mistake,it's not too bad.
The impact is shocking when yousee a room that's painted in
the wrong color.
But it's really a cost oflabour at $100 of a cost of a
tin of paint, kind offixer-upper.
(06:50):
I feel like when those thingshappen and even though you know
you can fix it because lots ofsmall things happen, I find it's
still.
I think the scary bit is peoplelosing faith in you.
So that's probably my.
It's's not.
The fear is almost not about,um, the cost or what we need to
do to fix it.
I mean, that is obviously afactor we do not want to have to
(07:12):
spend thousands of dollars tofix a mistake, but it's the
whole, like how it reflects onyou, like I feel like that's
what gets to me more.
And even, yeah, no, go.
Well, I was gonna say evenyourself, like as a 20 yearold
making a mistake like that, Iwas like can I even do this?
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I guess Ifeel like a lot of you know,
(07:32):
when I get asked about advicefor students who are studying
now, I always say go work forpeople, because I think we do
come out of school thinking weknow everything and we can just
start a business.
And I think it's really hardand people forget that you are
on your own and you might justlike make that mistake and you
don't have someone, even justlike like if you had been
working closer, maybe with evenwho you were working for, they
(07:55):
really should have picked it upright, they should have gone.
Oh, yeah, maybe, maybe not thatblue, maybe this one like
exactly, you need the soundingboards.
I feel, yes, um, I'm trying tothink of where I and this is not
me big noting myself, but Idon't have like an example of um
choosing the wrong color.
I don't know, maybe I've justalways been so good at it that
(08:16):
is so, so wanky.
No, I don't have a greatexample of oh my, like walking
into space and going oh my god,that's not what I thought it
would be or that's the wrongthing.
It's more, if I've chosensomething for myself, I think,
and then I paint it and I don'tnot like it, I'm just like, oh,
maybe it should have been this,and that's just indecision, I
(08:37):
think, and knowing too manyoptions.
Yeah, oh, yeah, god.
Yeah, I painted my stubby notthat long ago and I've already
got A4s on the wall because Iwant to change it and it was
only like, well, it was about ayear ago and I'm like I need to
change it.
It's only a small room, it'sfun, it's easy.
I know it's easy to just like,you know, on a weekend, right,
(08:57):
yeah, but I think another onethat's sort of to do with paint.
But more about calculation.
Math is not my strong point,particularly in like detailed
things, like I need to checkthem, check them, check them
again.
But I feel like wallpaper,don't try and work it out.
I mean, some people they get it, they know it, they can work it
(09:19):
out.
It is so complicated, you know,like the drop, the repeat.
I mean I think it's complicated.
There'll be someone out theregoing.
It's not complicated at all.
What are you talking about?
And I feel like I almost amcertain to get it wrong and have
before and I've worked out howto fix it, because, of course,
guess what Wallpaper's out ofstock, can't get more of it, and
also they don't really want youto use a different dialogue,
(09:41):
right?
Because if you've got, like youknow, five roles in this and
there's another one that's inever so slightly different
dialogue and they've got a match, that's when you really notice
it.
You'll notice the join.
So, yeah, that one wasn't acomplete disaster.
But I just know that I can'ttrust myself to do that and know
that I'm going to get it right.
The experts need this is whereyou go.
(10:01):
Okay, I now will not orderwallpaper unless it's literally
the person who's going to beinstalling it saying this is how
much we need, and they alwaysask for more than I think I know
.
I think anybody who says thatbeing able to estimate the
amount of wallpaper is easy.
They don't know what it is, orthere's some kind of math genius
, I don't know Exactly.
When you've got like a 75 orsomething centimeter pattern
(10:26):
repeat, you know it's almostlike you end up throwing out
half of the roll of paper.
It's crazy.
It actually is quite expensive.
And some wallpapers areexpensive to begin with you know
all the really beautiful ones,and then you feel like you've
got to buy extra, almost just incase as well, and there's
always just this sort of wastage.
So then you should come up witha better system for that,
(10:48):
surely.
Surely there is one.
How long before you've beenwallpapering for, if not
hundreds of years, wrong?
I guess this is the best we cando.
I don't know.
Yeah, I know.
Um, I've had a lesson that Ihave learned the hard way.
You know, when you try toinvolve everybody well, I do I
try to involve the family intheir home and say to the
(11:12):
15-year-old son what do you like?
Oh, my God, he does not care.
So I designed this beautifulroom.
We all absolutely loved it.
At the end we were like, oh mygosh, that room is like one of
our favorite rooms.
This fabric we chose for thedrapes and the this and the that
.
And anyway, I said to I, I saidto him he could choose his desk
(11:33):
chair color.
So I gathered all of the bluefabrics that I had and he chose
one and it was a bright blue.
I was like, oh cool.
And then we got it in and wewere like, no.
I was like the client was likeI don't really think that goes.
I was like, oh, it doesn'treally does it.
And I was like, oh he, I didn'tsay to the client, oh well,
your son chose it.
(11:53):
Like that was my stupid mistaketo let him even choose it.
Like, yeah, so, um, I thinksometimes you know, in the
spirit of trying to geteverybody to collaborate, like
that's and everything, but theydon't.
If they could have done itthemselves then I wouldn't be
there.
So we also I shouldn't havepresented some options that were
probably not 100% going to beright, because I don't disagree
(12:16):
with involving particularly.
I think it's like a bit ofownership over their spaces, so
letting them choose, but it'snot about and I think, a lot of
ownership over their spaces, soletting them choose, but it's
not about and I think a lot ofdesigners have probably been
through this where they go, oh,let's get them involved and give
them too many choices, or theykind of lean towards something
that's like, no, that's not it.
So, yeah, you need to be going.
(12:37):
These are three that I wouldactually use.
These are the only three I'mgoing to show you no overwhelm.
It's between these three andunless they're going, no, I want
purple and these are green orwhatever.
Yeah, I've actually even donethat.
This is the people pleaser inme.
I think I've even done thatwith an actual client where they
weren't like I was steeringthem in the right direction.
(12:57):
This is the color.
It was a, I think, a sofafabric.
This is what we need to do.
Um, but then they maybe thatone was too expensive.
So you know, like it's theperfect color, it's perfect, but
it's a little bit out of budget.
So then you've got to try andre-find the exact same, and you
never can.
The expensive one is alwaysgoing to be the one that's right
.
Um, but I made the mistake of,I think, showing her one to show
(13:19):
her how it didn't work, becauseshe kept saying, but what about
this color?
And I'd be like I don't think itworks.
And so I found one that was thecolor she was asking for and I
went see, now I'm just showingyou this to show you how it
doesn't work.
And she went oh no, that's theone I want, I love it.
Oh my gosh, no, that wasn't.
Yeah, that's not how that wassupposed to go.
(13:39):
You were supposed to see why itdidn't work and I was proving
my point.
It was a few years ago now, butI can't actually remember what
she ended up with.
I'm not sure if it was that oneexactly, because I think I
ended up kind of coming back toit on a different day and just
going sorry, I've been thinkingabout this and I really don't
think it's right.
And I think they did eventuallylisten to me.
(14:01):
But, yeah, maybe don't showthem stuff.
Because you don't show themstuff, because, well, that you
don't want them to you.
It's such a delicate to prove apoint exactly.
Oh, it's so hard.
And, um, another sort ofmistake that I made, which is, I
mean it's so hard when you wantto let the client do things.
Well, I mean let them.
It's their home, so, yeah, youwant them involved, you want to
(14:24):
be collaborative, collaborative,and if they.
I did a decorating project for aclient and I love her.
She's so cool.
She's always dressed likereally maximalist, like
beautiful colors and fabrics andpatterns.
She's just gorgeous and thehouse is amazing.
So I put together the designconcept Great.
(14:45):
And she had an upholsterer thatshe had used before.
She's like can we work with him?
I was like, sure, okay.
So we had this design for thebed heads and I, you know, had a
3D render, had some referenceimages to say this is what it's
going to look like.
The house wasn't built yet, soit's not like I could go on and
measure.
The space wasn't built yet, soit's not like I could go in and
(15:06):
measure the space.
So, anyways, as it went on, um,she had her upholsterer come
out when the walls had been allplastered up.
They measured.
I wasn't asked to come to thatmeeting because she wanted to
work with her upholsterer.
Um, can you sort of see a fewred flags?
So I was like, okay, that'sfine.
Um, and I said to theupholsterer you know, this is
the design, you know this is thefabric.
(15:28):
You can order the fabric, youcan work with the client and
make that happen.
So, anyway, that's all good,they're off doing the bed heads.
I wasn't part of it and thenwe've had the wallpaper come in
and he's papered up the walls'slooking so stunning.
And the client calls me up andsays what about powerpoints?
How are we going to access thepowerpoints when the bed head
(15:50):
runs wall to wall?
And I was like, oh my god, likeI don't know and I'm trying to
somehow fix this problem.
But I wasn't involved with themaking.
I didn't't order anything, Ididn't do anything.
So I think when I look back Ireally should have said I don't
(16:11):
know.
As I said, it's hard.
You know the client, sheenjoyed the process of the
decoration and everything.
But you know, essentially thatis an area of expertise that we
have that I should maybe sharewith her.
Yeah, you would have saidstraight away okay, we need.
You know, either thePowerPoints have got to come to
the front or you've got to havethe cutout etc.
Which is just sort of ano-brainer.
(16:31):
But it's funny like theupholsterer kind of should have
known that.
I know, I know, and we weresort of like scrambling, saying,
oh, where can we move thePowerPoints?
Do we move them up?
I'm like it's just beenwallpapered, the room's just
been wallpapered.
Oh, no, of course, and I meanthis guy is a very experienced
upholsterer, so it must havesomehow slipped through the gaps
there.
(16:51):
I feel like that guy is on apodcast right now talking about
the mistakes he's made in thepast, and so he's talking about
how he accidentally did that.
Do you think that he would ownup to that, though?
He's talking about how heaccidentally did that.
Do you think that he would ownup to that?
Though Only in a podcast wherehe said it's just between the
people listening, don't pass iton.
(17:11):
Exactly, I'm sure that'shappening.
So I mean, it's just reallydisappointing when those things
with a project you put thedesign but you're not engaged to
follow through with procurementand following through with
everything.
It's such a good point.
And then I feel like I've hadthis happen before where exactly
the same thing, you've leftthem to do all the ordering, um,
(17:34):
and something just isn't quiteright.
Or they ordered like the wrongsize and like rugs, for instance
, the wrong size rug, oh, that'sthe worst.
Um, and coming on site to sortof finish something off or see
it and go um, so that's, that'snot right.
Like why, oh, that one was likea little bit cheaper, we
thought it would be fine, andthey usually realize once it's
(17:57):
there that it's not fine andthat they should have listened,
especially when it's taken threemonths for that rug to be made.
That too right?
Oh yeah, if it's custom, evenworse, measure and measure again
.
And what do they say?
Like measure, measure twice,cut once.
I'm very bad at those things.
Yes, I remember when I workedfor this decorator.
(18:19):
It was such a, as I said, youknow, it was a bit of a disaster
at the time.
There are a few mistakes that Isaw happen.
Another one was ordering atoilet suite for a client and I
never knew.
I never knew this.
I was learning all these things.
I didn't know what an S trapwas or a P trap, but I learned
that day because obviously thewrong one had been ordered.
(18:41):
So you know things like thatand you're just like I don't
understand.
They're like well, the S trapthat goes to the floor and the P
goes to the wall, is that right?
Yeah, I think so.
Hang on, yes, p?
Oh God See, I would be lookingthat up every time.
That's the stuff that I don'tknow off the top of my head
(19:02):
because, as we said before,there's so many things we need
to know.
I can't possibly.
I mean, there are people thatcan.
I'm just not one of thosepeople.
I rely on the experts as well tocheck you know, specs and
things like that.
This is why we lovearchitectural reps.
They look after us, they knowtheir product, they are worth
their weight in gold.
That's my go-to, I agree.
(19:22):
Like as if we could know allthe ins and outs of a toilet, of
what's inside a tap, of how wedrain.
No, yeah, my sort of similarexample of that and actually
it's a recent one was doing arenovation, so existing house
sort of bungalow, and I orderednew door hardware for for inside
(19:48):
.
There's only one option.
I'm looking at this low and cogreat handles.
Okay, yeah, perfect, order themall.
They're on site.
They've been on site for agestoo.
Um, you know, you order themand make sure they're there.
And then I'm getting messagesfrom the client going apparently
it's the wrong because I wasn'tthere when they were installing
.
It's the's the wrong length.
I'm going how?
I don't understand what you'retalking about and it's to do
with the length of the latch.
(20:09):
So because they're existingdoors, there's like I think the
standard is 45 mil off the topof my head, but you can get 60
mil to fit to retrofit.
That's more common, maybe inthe past, but because there was
no option when I ordered them,it just didn't.
I just didn't click, I justwent.
Well, they're all standard, youjust order these and they just
(20:30):
fit.
I've just never had it happenbefore where that's been the
case and I was trying to thinkback to the million and one
times I've specified doorhardware and whether it's
something I've just forgotten orjust never come across having
to think about what size, whatlength the latch is, anyway.
So that was a new thing for meand I ended up just having to
(20:52):
order new latches.
That went inside there.
But boy, that was like a justkind of makes you look like you
don't know what you're doing andit's just this small little
thing that you just went.
Well, I just honestly didn'tknow.
Well, I don't know what you'redoing and it's just this small
little thing that you just went.
Well, I just honestly didn'tknow.
Well, I don't even know.
To be honest with you, I don'teven know what a latch is.
Is that the bit that's on theskinny side of the door, on the
edge, the bit inside?
(21:13):
So the bit that kind of pokesout and closes and like stops
the door from opening.
Okay, so there's the, there's aplate that covers oh my god, my
God, see, like you just learnsomething every day.
So it's the internal distance.
So I think it affects, likewhere you drill the hole,
basically.
So if there's already holes inthe door, you kind of want to
match it, not do.
Yeah, so complicated, I knowright, so complicated, too many
(21:36):
things, yes, keeps itinteresting.
I know Another fun one for backin this place where I worked
was that Is this the same placeas well?
It's the same place.
Seriously, that's funny.
You know she had big dreams, Ithink, of, you know, being an
(21:57):
interior designer, decorator.
But I think that again, youknow, and when I was 20, she was
probably my age 45.
I thought she was so wise andknew all these things.
And you know it's your boss, soyou're not going to question
them or anything Exactly, but Ijust, like always saw some kind
of mistakes and stuff happen.
Another one was curtains tooshort.
(22:19):
Oh God, that's the worst, theworst, you can't really fix that
.
Oh God, that's the worst, youcan't really fix that.
Well, I don't know what theydid, but you know it really
nailed home that softfurnishings is an area of
expertise.
Just because you can wavearound a measuring tape, it
doesn't mean that you can ordera curtain.
So they were ordering direct toa workroom and I don't do that.
(22:43):
I think that probably scared mefor life seeing those curtains
just be too short off the floor.
I don't.
As you said, maths is not yourstrong point, it's not mine
either.
Yes, I don't like measuringstuff either.
It's not mine either.
So we use Barlow and Hunt,they're called.
So Beck comes out, we talkabout the window.
(23:04):
She comes out.
We talk about the window.
We talk about the heading.
Yeah, we talk about the fabric.
How is that going to drape?
What kind of backing?
How full, like all thesedifferent things.
And they also think of thingsthat maybe you hadn't thought of
, as in even design wise, wherethey go well, what about if you
did this?
And you go, oh, I haven'tthought of that.
So, like, I like thatinteraction and collaboration,
(23:25):
and sometimes I go, what aboutyou do this?
You go, no, no, this is what Iwant, but it just opens your I
don't know mind to other thingsand you do learn it.
But I prefer not to have tothink about that and I can focus
on something else right, I canfocus on, you know, making sure
the room looks amazing and notexactly what stitching or header
or whatever it is to use.
But some people love that sideof it, like I know designers who
(23:46):
excel in, you know cushionstyles and piping and all of
that stuff and they're justreally good at it and they know
what works and they know exactlywhat to spec, whereas I get
scared every time that I'm goingto get it wrong.
Especially the cost of some ofthese fabrics get it from,
(24:08):
especially the cost of some ofthese fabrics.
It is eye watering and thethought, yes, of you know
snipping that fabric too short,never to be attached properly
again, like yeah, it can be thistiniest difference too with
that stuff.
Like absolutely, yeah, I'm a,I'm a.
I mean, I still do themeasuring.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notlike that, I'm not terrible at
it.
I just like to really reallymake sure it's right and I used
(24:31):
to do.
You know, when I was doingcommercial work, I used to have
to measure like whole emptyfloors of buildings.
So I had to get that right.
Imagine, like going to do thefit out and then going actually
you've got it.
Like a metre off, you can outand then going.
Actually you got it like ameter off.
You can't fit these threeworkstations or whatever it is.
So I have, you know, I justfeel the pressure of it.
I have that hasn't changed.
It's that risk and thatresponsibility that you take on.
(24:53):
But also you can take it on byyourself, but there are
checkpoints that you have inplace.
So you know I was the same, youknow I was the same, you know
from that commercial background.
But you know it would be goingout with the joiner or whoever
it is, and they will do theircheck measure too.
And again, it reminds me ofanother fail from that same
(25:14):
place I worked at.
Oh God, this is a great place.
I know this furniture maker.
He's a fantastic furnituremaker.
He's still down on theMornington Peninsula, nick his
name is.
He was like are you sure thatthat sofa's going to fit?
Because it was a four-meterlong sofa, that's a big sofa.
(25:34):
Yes, we're sure.
Yes, we're sure and we.
How nice of him to ask to.
I think he just knew a littlebit what my boss was like.
She's got the too.
I think he just knew a littlebit what my boss was like.
She's got the reputation I know.
And he saw me, just like this20 year old, this clueless girl,
and he was like are you sure,because I'm going to make it
(25:59):
four meters long, can you getaccess?
Yes, will it fit?
Yes, because we were given thefloor plans.
Anyway, as it turned out, there, there, it was right near the
end of a staircase and they hadto build one extra step, which
meant the sofa did not fit.
So you, when I think, when youjust see that stuff when I was
20, it just leaves such animpression that you check, check
, check, get somebody else tocheck one too, like, all right,
(26:20):
yeah, that is an easy one toforget about, especially new
designers.
Take heed, upstairs, or evensometimes on a ground floor, if
there's a tricky bend, it's likehallways, and if you've got a,
if you've got to turn into ahallway, uh, into a room and say
bedhead, for instance, so say,um, when you said before you can
(26:41):
have a big, wide bed head,that's like the whole length of
the wall.
You have to have that made inpieces.
It's not.
You're going down a hall unlessyou can turn it up on its end
or something.
Most of the time you can't getaround that corner.
So yeah, it's.
That's that stuff freaks me outtoo, especially new builds I
find really stressful becauseyou're relying on the floor plan
(27:03):
.
You're kind of like trying tolike physically go okay, I'm
pretending I'm in that space.
I mean you can mathematicallydo it, but I much prefer to be
there and be able to go, like Ican tell it's not going to fit
and then measure it.
So your instinct's kind ofkicking but off the floor plan,
thinking about I don't know.
It could just be like you don'trealize there's a bulkhead or
(27:28):
there's a bulkhead or there's ahandrail.
Like you're looking at stairson a floor plan and you're going
, oh, that's fine, it's thiswide, but you don't realize
there's going to be a handrailthere.
I'm sure I've had that happenwith something.
It worked out, but it was likefreaking out, going.
Oh, my god, the handrail didn'ttake that into account.
Yeah, access, I find, is a it'sa scary one.
It's a scary one because it'san easy one to forget about, but
sometimes with access it ismind over matter With our studio
(27:51):
, like just wishing it'll workand it has to work.
So with our studio, we had astudio on Chapel Street.
We ordered this beautiful bigtable from Hub and they
delivered it and it was, yeah,it was up.
You know, it was on the top ofit, it was the top above a shop,
yeah, so they had to use anexternal staircase, you know
(28:13):
this old Victorian building.
And then they had to turn at 90degrees.
They're like it's not going tofit.
I said, yes, it is it fit?
Were you actually inside going?
Oh my God, or were you reallyconfident?
I'm like you just have to makeit fit.
I have to have that table andit somehow fit.
But you know what was weirdwhen we left that?
(28:35):
Because we packed up thatstudio during COVID.
No, we got it out easily.
It's funny.
But sometimes actually also andagain it'll be something to do
with mathematics Sometimes youcan go, yep, that goes in and
it's actually impossible to getit out.
It's just an angle thing orsomething, or something about
it's got to go the otherdirection.
I don't know, I've had thathappen before, I'm sure, but it
is a good lesson.
(28:56):
Access, who would have thought?
Definitely For sure.
I think one of my other bigmistakes is over promising and
under delivering in a time frame, because sometimes when you're
talking to a client and they'relike oh, we know, just need this
, just need that.
Always put the word just infront of everything.
(29:16):
You're like oh yeah, we just dothat in two weeks, but it takes
a long time sometimes Well, allthe time really, because for me
I need to get familiar with theclient, ask them a lot of
questions, and sometimes I needto let it percolate and whilst
I'm researching and I find ideasand it's, you know, sometimes
(29:38):
you can just sort of turn thaton and sometimes you have no
choice to Definitely.
I completely understand that itwouldn't be beneficial for the
project just another week.
I think it's worth saying thattoo.
If you get to that point, rightis like look, it's nearly there,
but I'm just not quite happywith it.
I think that's a fair point andI guess it's harder for people
(30:00):
who aren't creative tounderstand that, because your
creativity it's sort of there,it's always there under the
surface.
But there's times when you'rereally on and when you really
just have the inspiration,particularly for that project,
and there are times where you'rereally pushing hard to get it
and you know that it's just itcould be better.
But you need that, that momentwhere you go ah yes, that's it,
(30:21):
that's the thing.
That's what's missing and youcan't just go.
I'm gonna do that.
It just happens right.
I agree, for me it's in theshower and I love the way you
just said that you know to sayto a client it's just not quite
there yet.
I mean, I think in a way italmost shows that you really
care, yeah, and you just want itto be the best it can be.
(30:44):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, and Ithink obviously everybody likes
things to be done in a certaintime frame or they they've got
ideas about when they wantsomething finished.
I think that one of the biggestthings for any project, even a
project that's running reallysmoothly and seems to be going
really well I feel like youshould always just be prepared
(31:06):
for whatever you think timeframeit's going to be.
It's probably going to be more,particularly when you get to
kind of like the trades and thebuilding and and now especially
with um, you know, in australiaand in particular in melbourne,
where we are, I can't predictthe length of time it's going to
take just to get a trade on ajob, and you might want to work
with this particular joiner andhe's booked out for six months,
(31:28):
but you're not finished thedrawings yet.
So you can't even get himinvolved yet and he kind of
knows it's coming, but you can'tbook him because you don't have
it all.
So you've kind of got to just,I don't know, there's got to be
a little bit of fluidity and Idon't know movement in that, I
think, to make sure that you'renot compromising.
There's just too many movingparts and we can't make these
(31:48):
promises that that's actuallynot within our control, like
securing a trade, and I knowI've had clients that have been
so frustrated.
You know it's just a bathroomrenovation.
They just want this newbathroom.
Also, stop watching the block.
Yeah, exactly, oh, my God, Imean for that to work, you and I
(32:11):
would have to be literally inthere with sledgehammers and
laying the tiles, right, well,it's all right, we'll get it
done for you, don't worry, itwon't be, won't be perfect.
Do you want to go on the blocknext year?
Yeah, let's do it.
Yeah, highly entertaining, ohdear.
I feel like a similar thing tothat, um, like the
(32:32):
over-promising.
For me it's under-quoting.
So you know, there are somethings that are harder to work
out and we all know as designersif you're a designer listening
that it is really tricky toquote projects sometimes.
Sometimes you just kind of knowno, I've been doing this for a
while.
This is a very similar projectto this one.
I kind of know what that shouldcost, but then all it takes
(33:00):
particularly if you've done flatfee is for something not to
quite work or for you needing tospend more time on it because
you can't quite get there.
So I find that really hard andI think it's quite easy to
underquote it because we wantthe price to be also right for
the client.
So you, just, you know theamount of designers I've talked
to and I've spoken to you aboutthis where you, you, you get
there, you've worked it all out.
You put the number down and youlook at the number and you go,
oh no, I don't know, I'm justgoing to drop a few.
(33:20):
I'll drop a zero off it.
Well, probably not that much,but like you know, you have so
many zeros, just want to take it, can lose one.
You know I just want to.
I just want to just shave thatback a little bit.
It's making me uncomfortable.
But you've got to really trustyourself, because that's when
you stuff it up and you're inthe project and you're losing
money, essentially because youspend too much time on it.
(33:44):
I agree, even mistakes thataren't your mistakes new, but
because you were involved in theproject, you probably spent
time trying to help work it out.
You know even admin talking toboth the client, the joiner,
maybe doing a site check orwhatever.
That's stuff that you haven'tfactored in, but you're just
(34:05):
trying to do the right thing andsome of it's not things that
you can go.
The client's going to need yourhelp.
It's like you kind of want togo well, okay, sure, that's
going to be three hours of mytime.
Like it's kind of not how youroll on a project, right, it's
sort of.
I know it's like this fine linethere and it was like, you know,
sleepless nights because you'rejust worried and you want it to
be great and amazing and you'rejust like I can't figure this
(34:26):
out.
I can't figure it out, yeah,but yeah, you know it is so hard
when it comes to the fees andeverything, and I've just
learned that if I've underquotedand I'm working on a project,
working on a project and I'm notbeing compensated for it, it
just builds up resentment and Ican't do my best work from that
mindset.
So, yeah, that's.
(34:47):
It's really that's really tough.
But, yeah, you do have to kindof stand your ground and say,
well, this is actually what itcosts for me to be in business.
Like it's expensive to be inbusiness.
It is yeah, we've got people tofeed, yeah, and I think that
you know.
It comes back to another mistakethat I've made, which is
(35:08):
sometimes you know mistakes thatyou've made, you have to
rectify them.
That you've made, you have torectify them.
And so, yes, when it comes toyou know, pricing our work
properly, you do have to allowfor those sometimes mistakes
that will happen.
And one of them I look back onand I'm like you know what?
That wasn't my mistake and I'malways too quick to say, oops,
that was me.
(35:29):
Like I think that's a stupidway to be, but anyway, I'm
trying not to do that anymore.
I mean, it was with a schedule.
So a schedule that I'd issuedfor a project and this was the
painting schedule.
There were lots of differentcolors in this project and I
actually the builder picked upon something.
He said, oh, is that right?
And I said, let me revise that.
(35:49):
So I revised the schedule andit was Let me revise that.
So I revised the schedule andit was, you know, revision,
underscore A, rev A, and Ihighlighted some of the things
that needed revising.
But I'd forgotten to highlightone of them and so he worked off
an old schedule, the first onewhen he ordered these shelves to
(36:11):
be too packed in the color tomatch the wall.
And he said and when they weredelivered I said that's the
wrong color, I'd updated that onthe schedule here.
He said, oh, but it wasn'thighlighted.
And I said, well, that was themost recent schedule though, so
you shouldn't have been lookingat the old one.
Yeah, because it was right atthe beginning of the project.
That's kind of a bit notiness.
(36:31):
And he said no, no.
He said no, I didn't, thatwasn't highlighted and it was on
the original.
So I was like, okay, well, so Ithen arranged for a new
two-packer to come pick them up,re-spray them at my expense,
and I'm like you know what, Ishould have stood my ground
there because it wasn'thighlighted, but it was still on
(36:52):
the latest architecturalrevision.
But you know, it's intimidatingsometimes when you're talking to
builders.
Oh, completely.
And you know I mean sometimesthey will throw you under the
bus when really that was not myfault.
Oh, I've had that happen a lot.
Yeah, I love I mean I shouldn'tsay a lot it happens
occasionally Most of the tradesI work with they'll call you
(37:16):
first and say, hey, looks likethis has happened or whatever it
is.
So you have a chance even justto think about how you're going
to address that, because I don'tlike to go to a client and say,
look, this is wrong.
I'll work out what to do.
I like to know what mysolutions are and then I can go
and say, look, this has happened, this is what we're going to do
.
So it just at least puts theirmind at ease.
And you don't always have thesolution right away.
But the amount of times thatI've and it's sort of my mistake
(37:39):
really having a job whereyou're not really controlling
the trades but you're not kindof speaking to them and they're
speaking directly to the ownermore than they are you, and so
they just say the stupideststuff.
I mean, there's the old painterssaying that the colour's not
good.
That definitely happens.
I think most painters have anopinion about the colour.
(38:01):
You know builders going oh,this is like this, she should
have known that this shouldn'thave been this or whatever.
And I've had clients come to melike annoyed and I'm like hang
on a minute.
No, that's actually not me atall, oh God.
But the builder just sort ofthrew it because they just I
don't know, some of them are abit like oh I don't know like
kind of gossipy or something.
(38:22):
They like the drama.
Some people like the drama.
They actually do To kind ofcreate a little bit of it or
complaining.
You know like some people justlike to complain, and there are
trades people that are like thatNot all of them, in fact, most
people that I work with are not,but the occasional one.
It's very frustrating.
I think most people don't wantto put their hand up and say
(38:43):
I've made a mistake.
And I mean, I like your pointthere that sometimes you don't
need to get the client involvedwith things that go on.
And I think that's what I triedto do.
I tried to be like I've gotthis, I can handle this Client
doesn't need to know there'sbeen a mistake here, whereas in
retrospect I should have saidhold on a minute, this is what's
on the latest schedule.
(39:04):
Why was this not followed and Icould have got the client on
board?
Anyway, it's been how manyyears Probably eight years since
that happened and you stillwake up at night I do.
It's just another nightmare, Iknow, I know, but it turned out
to be a beautiful project.
But, yeah, I think the biggestlesson is, you know, we have to
(39:28):
stand up for ourselves becausenobody else is going to do it.
That's true.
And when it comes to costing$1,000 or $2,000 for some
mistake, that really wasn't myfault yeah, you know, I think we
have to really be our ownadvocate for that.
I've also had a couple sort ofsimilar but different.
I had documentation done forsome joinery and it was during
(39:51):
the old COVID days and they weredoing a meeting with the joiner
in his factory and goingthrough it all and I felt like
the documentation was prettysolid.
But there was just like oneview that wasn't like I don't
know, I blame.
I think it was done in SketchUpPlan and you know like it's not
(40:14):
very good with line weights.
So, like I'm old schooldocumenter, right, line weights
are everything for when you'rereading a drawing and I learned
to hand draw, that's probably mybest way to document.
I'm too slow at the other stuff, so I get somebody else to do
that for me.
I just it's not a skill I wantto concentrate on now.
So I had someone else do it.
(40:36):
It was done in SketchUp plan andthe line weight in this
particular elevation made itlook like everything was on the
same plane instead of somethingwas behind something else.
And if I had have been in thosemeetings I would have picked up
on it.
But because it was COVID, itwas like, oh, there's only
allowed to be X amount of peopleand the client wanted to go to
the meeting.
I think she'd found the joiner.
So there was like, oh, there'sonly allowed to be X amount of
people and the client wanted togo to the meeting.
I think she'd found the joiner.
So there was again that kind ofrelationship with the trade.
(40:59):
I thought what could go wrong?
I feel like the documentation'sright If they've got questions,
and I had a couple of questionsand they'd come back to me.
Anyway, on site I'm not goingto explain exactly what it is,
just because the client could belistening, but they didn't pick
it up.
I picked it up and it was okayand it didn't look terrible, but
(41:19):
for me it would have driven meinsane.
I just knew it wasn't right theway it had been done.
Yeah, so to this day itprobably still exists like that,
but I undernourished about whatto do.
I kind of went, oh it's in,what are the solutions?
And I really got anxiety aboutit.
I would lay awake at nightthinking about it going.
(41:40):
It's not right.
The client didn't even noticeit, but I noticed it.
I think I spoke to the builderabout it because I loved the
builder, he was great to workwith and I said look, I'm really
agonizing over this.
Do I tell them that it's notwhat I intended?
Do I leave it?
He goes.
They're really happy with it.
Why would you tell them?
But, like I just had a full-onanxiety, I still think about it
(42:02):
now because it wasn't right andI like things to be right, I
know, and, yeah, sometimes youknow you do have to make that
call.
Am I stressing out oversomething that's important to me
and it's a designer kind ofthing, or is the client
absolutely just loving it andyou don't?
You know you could.
You could really dampen thewhole project if you pointed out
(42:25):
this thing.
That was really bothering you.
They're like well, if, and thenthey can't unsee it right, yeah
, yeah, it's a fine line, though, but if there's a mistake that
you're like, you know whatthat's affecting the
functionality or that'saffecting, oh, 100%, that's
different.
It was just a visual.
It's almost too hard for me toexplain it anyway.
But yeah, just bloody lineweights.
(42:46):
I know, isn't it crazy how likeit's so important that drawings
are drawn correctly?
And I think how we would havewhat I learned from that was
even drawn correctly, and Ithink how we would have what I
learned from that was, eventhough it's harder to get the
line weights right in somethinglike SketchUp Plan, have a 3D in
the document.
We didn't have a 3D in thedocumentation and we could have
because it was all in 3D andjust to show, if they had been
(43:08):
able to just see that in threedimensions, they would have
noticed it straight away.
So I learned from that going oh, why didn't we have the?
Why didn't we have the 3d?
And so that was sort of thething that was missing to paint
the full picture.
Anyway, yeah, they just they dobecome useful, even in
construction drawings to put the3d in there.
But we learn, we learn ourlessons and we hopefully do
(43:29):
better or hopefully not make thesame mistake twice.
That's a bummer when thathappens.
Oh gosh, yes, well, then youmight start to examine what
you're doing wrong.
Yes, you know what I would loveIf you are listening to this.
Why don't you just send us aquick DM and tell us one of your
little fun mistakes, if you'rebrave enough to share it,
(43:49):
because I'd be so curious.
Yeah, and even when we postabout this fun, jump in the
comments if you're brave enoughto put it in there.
But, yes, please DM us andwe'll share them anonymously,
because that could be quite fun.
Yeah, that's a great idea.
All right, bree, that was sofun.
Thank you, thanks.
Yeah, see you next time.
(44:09):
We've got some great episodeslined up.
Oh, we do Some cool guests Talk.
We've got some great episodeslined up.
Oh, we do Some cool guests Talksoon.
Bye, bye.
So thank you guys for listeningin.
And just a quick reminder ifyou would like some help with
the interiors for your own home,I can help you in a course
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
Or, for designers out there,come into the Design Society for
(44:31):
business and marketing and allof the things.
Yeah, the Design Society forbusiness and marketing and all
of the things.
Yeah, and in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for my soon to be releasedfurniture collections
pre-selected furniturecollections and cool trend
information, and then, in thefuture, some short courses on
styling and trends as well.
So, good Bree, we've got theutmost respect for the
(44:53):
Wurundjeri people of the KulinNation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
(45:16):
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers me, brie
Banfield and me, lauren Lee,with some amazing guest
appearances along the way.
And today we are it's just usand we are going to be talking
about interior design fails, butonly the ones that we're happy
to admit to, exactly, becauseotherwise this episode would
(00:22):
probably go for a while.
No, and we have to.
You know, you've got to put onthe front a little bit, right,
we are professionals, we areexperts, there's no doubt about
that, but everybody makesmistakes and sometimes you just
don't know what you don't know,as you like to say, lauren,
(00:43):
until you go.
Hang on, actually, that's notquite right, and I've learned
something.
So it's all about learning.
Mistakes are all about learning, right, exactly, and I mean
with what we do, with interiordesign, styling, decorating
there's just so many movingparts and you're just dealing
with, sometimes, a propertythat's like over 100 years old.
There's unforeseen things thathappen, and not to mention all
(01:05):
of the different people that weneed to rely on to make our
vision come true.
Yes, but education is the keyhere, right?
Because if we're talking aboutour mistakes, then maybe you
won't make the same ones I don'twant you to make the same
mistakes.
Why should you?
Hopefully, exactly.
We can kind of learn from eachother.
And yeah, it is kind ofvulnerable to talk about the
(01:28):
mistakes you've made because youdon't want to come across as an
idiot.
No, no, totally.
Yeah, no, you know we'retalking with friends here, so
we'll be all right.
Yes, that's right.
We'll keep it all amongstourselves, won't we?
Totally.
Thanks, thanks everyone.
Before we get started, I justwanted to remind you guys that
if you're an interior designerand you want a bit of support in
(01:49):
your business, you want to grow.
You've got big ambitions andthis is the year you want to
make it happen.
I'd love to help you in theconversation circle.
There is a little link in thenotes If you want to join.
We're starting off in May andwe're going to a small group of
emerging designers, a smallgroup of established designers.
It's going to be great.
(02:10):
What have you got coming on?
Bree?
Too many things, yeah, I know,but same thing.
Jump into the show notes.
There's a link there.
Sign up for a newsletter fromme.
We're going to be sending outregular trend information, which
is always fun, and just newsabout what offers we've got
going in terms of ourcollections that we'll be
(02:33):
releasing soon, which arepre-selected decor for different
rooms to make it easy for youto create amazing spaces on a
budget.
Yeah, and more, I'm sure.
So smart.
Well, I mean, it would be rudeof us not to mention that we are
going to Paris and Milan forMilan Design Week.
So rude, so rude, so sorry.
(02:56):
We haven't really mentioned itthat much, but we kind of put
the word out to do a design tourand actually we filled the
spots pretty quickly and we'regoing to do a design tour and
actually we filled the spotspretty quickly and we're going
to do it again.
So if you want to come with ussee gorgeous interiors, fill
your inspiration cup, um, we'dlove to hear from you.
So maybe we should pop anotherlittle link in there.
(03:16):
You can pop your name down onthe list, yeah, yeah, and we'll
be opening that wait list soonfor next year and obviously
follow us on socials lauren's,mine and design anatomy.
Those are all in the show notesas well, and you can see what
amazing things we get up to,which you're going to want to be
there next year.
Oh my gosh, it'll be not one ofus out.
(03:37):
The amount of beautiful spaceswe're going to see.
You'll be like, okay, that wascute in the beginning, but oh my
god, I can't take any more ofit, I've got to mute them.
Well, you know, you could muteus or you could just come along
for the next one.
That's right and we really loveto.
You know, it's about having areally small group.
We don't want to make it feellike a school excursion, so we
(03:59):
want to get to know everyone andanyway, it's going to be so
great.
Yeah, I'm very much lookingforward to it.
Same.
Shall we talk about our topic?
Yeah, let's do it all right.
Well, I think, um, one of myfirst big design mistakes was I
had um graduated at RMIT.
I did interior design anddecoration.
(04:20):
I worked for a interiordecorator.
I was, uh, down on theMornington Peninsula and it was
a wild experience, isn't itfunny when you look back and you
go, I don't really think myboss knew what she was doing.
Oh my God, I hope people don'tsay that about me.
Oh no, well, shit, I was only20.
(04:40):
I think I turned 21,.
You know, during that time.
So I sure didn't know what Iwas doing.
You know I had thisqualification.
So you know that takes you,that gets you a foot in the door
, doesn't it?
And that's probably after that.
That's where all the learningreally starts.
So, anyway, we had this client.
We had chosen, you know,fabrics, wallpapers and
furniture and everythingdecoration.
(05:00):
And then there was the son'sroom and the the um, my boss
said why don't you go and dothat one?
So we chose out a gorgeouswallpaper and I thought what you
would do is have a wallpaper asa feature wall and you just
pick out a color in thatwallpaper to paint the rest of
the walls like.
It sounds good in theory, right, but when that color that I
chose out of the wallpaper was ashade of blue, it's like
(05:22):
facebook blue, like it was sointense, you know the button and
it was like vibrating.
The room was like so bright itwas not.
You know, I think this is whatone of my big lessons was how do
you want the space to feel?
Yes, and such a good lesson too.
Yeah, it's not just aboutcoordinating, is it?
(05:44):
You've got to think a littlebit further about those colours
that you're putting together.
Definitely, you know, in theoryit sounds like the right thing
to do.
Pick out a colour from thewallpaper that you like, but for
a I think it was like a toddler.
It is a very energising spaceto be in, bouncing off the walls
Exactly, I don't know.
(06:07):
You know, now I have a four, athree-year-old boy.
Um, the last thing I want himto do is feel really energized.
You know like, oh, they'vealready got so much energy, I
don't need to add to that.
So you want their bedroomexactly to be a space for sleep,
for rest, and, you know, tohold their toys and things like
that.
You know they usually don'treally play in their bedrooms,
(06:28):
but it's a place for rest.
So how can we think about that?
And I mean in terms of mistakesto make repainting a room.
It's not the worst mistake,it's not too bad.
The impact is shocking when yousee a room that's painted in
the wrong color.
But it's really a cost oflabour at $100 of a cost of a
tin of paint, kind offixer-upper.
(06:50):
I feel like when those thingshappen and even though you know
you can fix it because lots ofsmall things happen, I find it's
still.
I think the scary bit is peoplelosing faith in you.
So that's probably my.
It's's not.
The fear is almost not about,um, the cost or what we need to
do to fix it.
I mean, that is obviously afactor we do not want to have to
(07:12):
spend thousands of dollars tofix a mistake, but it's the
whole, like how it reflects onyou, like I feel like that's
what gets to me more.
And even, yeah, no, go.
Well, I was gonna say evenyourself, like as a 20 yearold
making a mistake like that, Iwas like can I even do this?
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I guess Ifeel like a lot of you know,
(07:32):
when I get asked about advicefor students who are studying
now, I always say go work forpeople, because I think we do
come out of school thinking weknow everything and we can just
start a business.
And I think it's really hardand people forget that you are
on your own and you might justlike make that mistake and you
don't have someone, even justlike like if you had been
working closer, maybe with evenwho you were working for, they
(07:55):
really should have picked it upright, they should have gone.
Oh, yeah, maybe, maybe not thatblue, maybe this one like
exactly, you need the soundingboards.
I feel, yes, um, I'm trying tothink of where I and this is not
me big noting myself, but Idon't have like an example of um
choosing the wrong color.
I don't know, maybe I've justalways been so good at it that
(08:16):
is so, so wanky.
No, I don't have a greatexample of oh my, like walking
into space and going oh my god,that's not what I thought it
would be or that's the wrongthing.
It's more, if I've chosensomething for myself, I think,
and then I paint it and I don'tnot like it, I'm just like, oh,
maybe it should have been this,and that's just indecision, I
(08:37):
think, and knowing too manyoptions.
Yeah, oh, yeah, god.
Yeah, I painted my stubby notthat long ago and I've already
got A4s on the wall because Iwant to change it and it was
only like, well, it was about ayear ago and I'm like I need to
change it.
It's only a small room, it'sfun, it's easy.
I know it's easy to just like,you know, on a weekend, right,
(08:57):
yeah, but I think another onethat's sort of to do with paint.
But more about calculation.
Math is not my strong point,particularly in like detailed
things, like I need to checkthem, check them, check them
again.
But I feel like wallpaper,don't try and work it out.
I mean, some people they get it, they know it, they can work it
(09:19):
out.
It is so complicated, you know,like the drop, the repeat.
I mean I think it's complicated.
There'll be someone out theregoing.
It's not complicated at all.
What are you talking about?
And I feel like I almost amcertain to get it wrong and have
before and I've worked out howto fix it, because, of course,
guess what Wallpaper's out ofstock, can't get more of it, and
also they don't really want youto use a different dialogue,
(09:41):
right?
Because if you've got, like youknow, five roles in this and
there's another one that's inever so slightly different
dialogue and they've got a match, that's when you really notice
it.
You'll notice the join.
So, yeah, that one wasn't acomplete disaster.
But I just know that I can'ttrust myself to do that and know
that I'm going to get it right.
The experts need this is whereyou go.
(10:01):
Okay, I now will not orderwallpaper unless it's literally
the person who's going to beinstalling it saying this is how
much we need, and they alwaysask for more than I think I know
.
I think anybody who says thatbeing able to estimate the
amount of wallpaper is easy.
They don't know what it is, orthere's some kind of math genius
, I don't know Exactly.
When you've got like a 75 orsomething centimeter pattern
(10:26):
repeat, you know it's almostlike you end up throwing out
half of the roll of paper.
It's crazy.
It actually is quite expensive.
And some wallpapers areexpensive to begin with you know
all the really beautiful ones,and then you feel like you've
got to buy extra, almost just incase as well, and there's
always just this sort of wastage.
So then you should come up witha better system for that,
(10:48):
surely.
Surely there is one.
How long before you've beenwallpapering for, if not
hundreds of years, wrong?
I guess this is the best we cando.
I don't know.
Yeah, I know.
Um, I've had a lesson that Ihave learned the hard way.
You know, when you try toinvolve everybody well, I do I
try to involve the family intheir home and say to the
(11:12):
15-year-old son what do you like?
Oh, my God, he does not care.
So I designed this beautifulroom.
We all absolutely loved it.
At the end we were like, oh mygosh, that room is like one of
our favorite rooms.
This fabric we chose for thedrapes and the this and the that
.
And anyway, I said to I, I saidto him he could choose his desk
(11:33):
chair color.
So I gathered all of the bluefabrics that I had and he chose
one and it was a bright blue.
I was like, oh cool.
And then we got it in and wewere like, no.
I was like the client was likeI don't really think that goes.
I was like, oh, it doesn'treally does it.
And I was like, oh he, I didn'tsay to the client, oh well,
your son chose it.
(11:53):
Like that was my stupid mistaketo let him even choose it.
Like, yeah, so, um, I thinksometimes you know, in the
spirit of trying to geteverybody to collaborate, like
that's and everything, but theydon't.
If they could have done itthemselves then I wouldn't be
there.
So we also I shouldn't havepresented some options that were
probably not 100% going to beright, because I don't disagree
(12:16):
with involving particularly.
I think it's like a bit ofownership over their spaces, so
letting them choose, but it'snot about and I think, a lot of
ownership over their spaces, soletting them choose, but it's
not about and I think a lot ofdesigners have probably been
through this where they go, oh,let's get them involved and give
them too many choices, or theykind of lean towards something
that's like, no, that's not it.
So, yeah, you need to be going.
(12:37):
These are three that I wouldactually use.
These are the only three I'mgoing to show you no overwhelm.
It's between these three andunless they're going, no, I want
purple and these are green orwhatever.
Yeah, I've actually even donethat.
This is the people pleaser inme.
I think I've even done thatwith an actual client where they
weren't like I was steeringthem in the right direction.
(12:57):
This is the color.
It was a, I think, a sofafabric.
This is what we need to do.
Um, but then they maybe thatone was too expensive.
So you know, like it's theperfect color, it's perfect, but
it's a little bit out of budget.
So then you've got to try andre-find the exact same, and you
never can.
The expensive one is alwaysgoing to be the one that's right
.
Um, but I made the mistake of,I think, showing her one to show
(13:19):
her how it didn't work, becauseshe kept saying, but what about
this color?
And I'd be like I don't think itworks.
And so I found one that was thecolor she was asking for and I
went see, now I'm just showingyou this to show you how it
doesn't work.
And she went oh no, that's theone I want, I love it.
Oh my gosh, no, that wasn't.
Yeah, that's not how that wassupposed to go.
(13:39):
You were supposed to see why itdidn't work and I was proving
my point.
It was a few years ago now, butI can't actually remember what
she ended up with.
I'm not sure if it was that oneexactly, because I think I
ended up kind of coming back toit on a different day and just
going sorry, I've been thinkingabout this and I really don't
think it's right.
And I think they did eventuallylisten to me.
(14:01):
But, yeah, maybe don't showthem stuff.
Because you don't show themstuff, because, well, that you
don't want them to you.
It's such a delicate to prove apoint exactly.
Oh, it's so hard.
And, um, another sort ofmistake that I made, which is, I
mean it's so hard when you wantto let the client do things.
Well, I mean let them.
It's their home, so, yeah, youwant them involved, you want to
(14:24):
be collaborative, collaborative,and if they.
I did a decorating project for aclient and I love her.
She's so cool.
She's always dressed likereally maximalist, like
beautiful colors and fabrics andpatterns.
She's just gorgeous and thehouse is amazing.
So I put together the designconcept Great.
(14:45):
And she had an upholsterer thatshe had used before.
She's like can we work with him?
I was like, sure, okay.
So we had this design for thebed heads and I, you know, had a
3D render, had some referenceimages to say this is what it's
going to look like.
The house wasn't built yet, soit's not like I could go on and
measure.
The space wasn't built yet, soit's not like I could go in and
(15:06):
measure the space.
So, anyways, as it went on, um,she had her upholsterer come
out when the walls had been allplastered up.
They measured.
I wasn't asked to come to thatmeeting because she wanted to
work with her upholsterer.
Um, can you sort of see a fewred flags?
So I was like, okay, that'sfine.
Um, and I said to theupholsterer you know, this is
the design, you know this is thefabric.
(15:28):
You can order the fabric, youcan work with the client and
make that happen.
So, anyway, that's all good,they're off doing the bed heads.
I wasn't part of it and thenwe've had the wallpaper come in
and he's papered up the walls'slooking so stunning.
And the client calls me up andsays what about powerpoints?
How are we going to access thepowerpoints when the bed head
(15:50):
runs wall to wall?
And I was like, oh my god, likeI don't know and I'm trying to
somehow fix this problem.
But I wasn't involved with themaking.
I didn't't order anything, Ididn't do anything.
So I think when I look back Ireally should have said I don't
(16:11):
know.
As I said, it's hard.
You know the client, sheenjoyed the process of the
decoration and everything.
But you know, essentially thatis an area of expertise that we
have that I should maybe sharewith her.
Yeah, you would have saidstraight away okay, we need.
You know, either thePowerPoints have got to come to
the front or you've got to havethe cutout etc.
Which is just sort of ano-brainer.
(16:31):
But it's funny like theupholsterer kind of should have
known that.
I know, I know, and we weresort of like scrambling, saying,
oh, where can we move thePowerPoints?
Do we move them up?
I'm like it's just beenwallpapered, the room's just
been wallpapered.
Oh, no, of course, and I meanthis guy is a very experienced
upholsterer, so it must havesomehow slipped through the gaps
there.
(16:51):
I feel like that guy is on apodcast right now talking about
the mistakes he's made in thepast, and so he's talking about
how he accidentally did that.
Do you think that he would ownup to that, though?
He's talking about how heaccidentally did that.
Do you think that he would ownup to that?
Though Only in a podcast wherehe said it's just between the
people listening, don't pass iton.
(17:11):
Exactly, I'm sure that'shappening.
So I mean, it's just reallydisappointing when those things
with a project you put thedesign but you're not engaged to
follow through with procurementand following through with
everything.
It's such a good point.
And then I feel like I've hadthis happen before where exactly
the same thing, you've leftthem to do all the ordering, um,
(17:34):
and something just isn't quiteright.
Or they ordered like the wrongsize and like rugs, for instance
, the wrong size rug, oh, that'sthe worst.
Um, and coming on site to sortof finish something off or see
it and go um, so that's, that'snot right.
Like why, oh, that one was likea little bit cheaper, we
thought it would be fine, andthey usually realize once it's
(17:57):
there that it's not fine andthat they should have listened,
especially when it's taken threemonths for that rug to be made.
That too right?
Oh yeah, if it's custom, evenworse, measure and measure again
.
And what do they say?
Like measure, measure twice,cut once.
I'm very bad at those things.
Yes, I remember when I workedfor this decorator.
(18:19):
It was such a, as I said, youknow, it was a bit of a disaster
at the time.
There are a few mistakes that Isaw happen.
Another one was ordering atoilet suite for a client and I
never knew.
I never knew this.
I was learning all these things.
I didn't know what an S trapwas or a P trap, but I learned
that day because obviously thewrong one had been ordered.
(18:41):
So you know things like thatand you're just like I don't
understand.
They're like well, the S trapthat goes to the floor and the P
goes to the wall, is that right?
Yeah, I think so.
Hang on, yes, p?
Oh God See, I would be lookingthat up every time.
That's the stuff that I don'tknow off the top of my head
(19:02):
because, as we said before,there's so many things we need
to know.
I can't possibly.
I mean, there are people thatcan.
I'm just not one of thosepeople.
I rely on the experts as well tocheck you know, specs and
things like that.
This is why we lovearchitectural reps.
They look after us, they knowtheir product, they are worth
their weight in gold.
That's my go-to, I agree.
(19:22):
Like as if we could know allthe ins and outs of a toilet, of
what's inside a tap, of how wedrain.
No, yeah, my sort of similarexample of that and actually
it's a recent one was doing arenovation, so existing house
sort of bungalow, and I orderednew door hardware for for inside
(19:48):
.
There's only one option.
I'm looking at this low and cogreat handles.
Okay, yeah, perfect, order themall.
They're on site.
They've been on site for agestoo.
Um, you know, you order themand make sure they're there.
And then I'm getting messagesfrom the client going apparently
it's the wrong because I wasn'tthere when they were installing
.
It's the's the wrong length.
I'm going how?
I don't understand what you'retalking about and it's to do
with the length of the latch.
(20:09):
So because they're existingdoors, there's like I think the
standard is 45 mil off the topof my head, but you can get 60
mil to fit to retrofit.
That's more common, maybe inthe past, but because there was
no option when I ordered them,it just didn't.
I just didn't click, I justwent.
Well, they're all standard, youjust order these and they just
(20:30):
fit.
I've just never had it happenbefore where that's been the
case and I was trying to thinkback to the million and one
times I've specified doorhardware and whether it's
something I've just forgotten orjust never come across having
to think about what size, whatlength the latch is, anyway.
So that was a new thing for meand I ended up just having to
(20:52):
order new latches.
That went inside there.
But boy, that was like a justkind of makes you look like you
don't know what you're doing andit's just this small little
thing that you just went.
Well, I just honestly didn'tknow.
Well, I don't know what you'redoing and it's just this small
little thing that you just went.
Well, I just honestly didn'tknow.
Well, I don't even know.
To be honest with you, I don'teven know what a latch is.
Is that the bit that's on theskinny side of the door, on the
edge, the bit inside?
(21:13):
So the bit that kind of pokesout and closes and like stops
the door from opening.
Okay, so there's the, there's aplate that covers oh my god, my
God, see, like you just learnsomething every day.
So it's the internal distance.
So I think it affects, likewhere you drill the hole,
basically.
So if there's already holes inthe door, you kind of want to
match it, not do.
Yeah, so complicated, I knowright, so complicated, too many
(21:36):
things, yes, keeps itinteresting.
I know Another fun one for backin this place where I worked
was that Is this the same placeas well?
It's the same place.
Seriously, that's funny.
You know she had big dreams, Ithink, of, you know, being an
(21:57):
interior designer, decorator.
But I think that again, youknow, and when I was 20, she was
probably my age 45.
I thought she was so wise andknew all these things.
And you know it's your boss, soyou're not going to question
them or anything Exactly, but Ijust, like always saw some kind
of mistakes and stuff happen.
Another one was curtains tooshort.
(22:19):
Oh God, that's the worst, theworst, you can't really fix that
.
Oh God, that's the worst, youcan't really fix that.
Well, I don't know what theydid, but you know it really
nailed home that softfurnishings is an area of
expertise.
Just because you can wavearound a measuring tape, it
doesn't mean that you can ordera curtain.
So they were ordering direct toa workroom and I don't do that.
(22:43):
I think that probably scared mefor life seeing those curtains
just be too short off the floor.
I don't.
As you said, maths is not yourstrong point, it's not mine
either.
Yes, I don't like measuringstuff either.
It's not mine either.
So we use Barlow and Hunt,they're called.
So Beck comes out, we talkabout the window.
(23:04):
She comes out.
We talk about the window.
We talk about the heading.
Yeah, we talk about the fabric.
How is that going to drape?
What kind of backing?
How full, like all thesedifferent things.
And they also think of thingsthat maybe you hadn't thought of
, as in even design wise, wherethey go well, what about if you
did this?
And you go, oh, I haven'tthought of that.
So, like, I like thatinteraction and collaboration,
(23:25):
and sometimes I go, what aboutyou do this?
You go, no, no, this is what Iwant, but it just opens your I
don't know mind to other thingsand you do learn it.
But I prefer not to have tothink about that and I can focus
on something else right, I canfocus on, you know, making sure
the room looks amazing and notexactly what stitching or header
or whatever it is to use.
But some people love that sideof it, like I know designers who
(23:46):
excel in, you know cushionstyles and piping and all of
that stuff and they're justreally good at it and they know
what works and they know exactlywhat to spec, whereas I get
scared every time that I'm goingto get it wrong.
Especially the cost of some ofthese fabrics get it from,
(24:08):
especially the cost of some ofthese fabrics.
It is eye watering and thethought, yes, of you know
snipping that fabric too short,never to be attached properly
again, like yeah, it can be thistiniest difference too with
that stuff.
Like absolutely, yeah, I'm a,I'm a.
I mean, I still do themeasuring.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notlike that, I'm not terrible at
it.
I just like to really reallymake sure it's right and I used
(24:31):
to do.
You know, when I was doingcommercial work, I used to have
to measure like whole emptyfloors of buildings.
So I had to get that right.
Imagine, like going to do thefit out and then going actually
you've got it.
Like a metre off, you can outand then going.
Actually you got it like ameter off.
You can't fit these threeworkstations or whatever it is.
So I have, you know, I justfeel the pressure of it.
I have that hasn't changed.
It's that risk and thatresponsibility that you take on.
(24:53):
But also you can take it on byyourself, but there are
checkpoints that you have inplace.
So you know I was the same, youknow I was the same, you know
from that commercial background.
But you know it would be goingout with the joiner or whoever
it is, and they will do theircheck measure too.
And again, it reminds me ofanother fail from that same
(25:14):
place I worked at.
Oh God, this is a great place.
I know this furniture maker.
He's a fantastic furnituremaker.
He's still down on theMornington Peninsula, nick his
name is.
He was like are you sure thatthat sofa's going to fit?
Because it was a four-meterlong sofa, that's a big sofa.
(25:34):
Yes, we're sure.
Yes, we're sure and we.
How nice of him to ask to.
I think he just knew a littlebit what my boss was like.
She's got the too.
I think he just knew a littlebit what my boss was like.
She's got the reputation I know.
And he saw me, just like this20 year old, this clueless girl,
and he was like are you sure,because I'm going to make it
(25:59):
four meters long, can you getaccess?
Yes, will it fit?
Yes, because we were given thefloor plans.
Anyway, as it turned out, there, there, it was right near the
end of a staircase and they hadto build one extra step, which
meant the sofa did not fit.
So you, when I think, when youjust see that stuff when I was
20, it just leaves such animpression that you check, check
, check, get somebody else tocheck one too, like, all right,
(26:20):
yeah, that is an easy one toforget about, especially new
designers.
Take heed, upstairs, or evensometimes on a ground floor, if
there's a tricky bend, it's likehallways, and if you've got a,
if you've got to turn into ahallway, uh, into a room and say
bedhead, for instance, so say,um, when you said before you can
(26:41):
have a big, wide bed head,that's like the whole length of
the wall.
You have to have that made inpieces.
It's not.
You're going down a hall unlessyou can turn it up on its end
or something.
Most of the time you can't getaround that corner.
So yeah, it's.
That's that stuff freaks me outtoo, especially new builds I
find really stressful becauseyou're relying on the floor plan
(27:03):
.
You're kind of like trying tolike physically go okay, I'm
pretending I'm in that space.
I mean you can mathematicallydo it, but I much prefer to be
there and be able to go, like Ican tell it's not going to fit
and then measure it.
So your instinct's kind ofkicking but off the floor plan,
thinking about I don't know.
It could just be like you don'trealize there's a bulkhead or
(27:28):
there's a bulkhead or there's ahandrail.
Like you're looking at stairson a floor plan and you're going
, oh, that's fine, it's thiswide, but you don't realize
there's going to be a handrailthere.
I'm sure I've had that happenwith something.
It worked out, but it was likefreaking out, going.
Oh, my god, the handrail didn'ttake that into account.
Yeah, access, I find, is a it'sa scary one.
It's a scary one because it'san easy one to forget about, but
sometimes with access it ismind over matter With our studio
(27:51):
, like just wishing it'll workand it has to work.
So with our studio, we had astudio on Chapel Street.
We ordered this beautiful bigtable from Hub and they
delivered it and it was, yeah,it was up.
You know, it was on the top ofit, it was the top above a shop,
yeah, so they had to use anexternal staircase, you know
(28:13):
this old Victorian building.
And then they had to turn at 90degrees.
They're like it's not going tofit.
I said, yes, it is it fit?
Were you actually inside going?
Oh my God, or were you reallyconfident?
I'm like you just have to makeit fit.
I have to have that table andit somehow fit.
But you know what was weirdwhen we left that?
(28:35):
Because we packed up thatstudio during COVID.
No, we got it out easily.
It's funny.
But sometimes actually also andagain it'll be something to do
with mathematics Sometimes youcan go, yep, that goes in and
it's actually impossible to getit out.
It's just an angle thing orsomething, or something about
it's got to go the otherdirection.
I don't know, I've had thathappen before, I'm sure, but it
is a good lesson.
(28:56):
Access, who would have thought?
Definitely For sure.
I think one of my other bigmistakes is over promising and
under delivering in a time frame, because sometimes when you're
talking to a client and they'relike oh, we know, just need this
, just need that.
Always put the word just infront of everything.
(29:16):
You're like oh yeah, we just dothat in two weeks, but it takes
a long time sometimes Well, allthe time really, because for me
I need to get familiar with theclient, ask them a lot of
questions, and sometimes I needto let it percolate and whilst
I'm researching and I find ideasand it's, you know, sometimes
(29:38):
you can just sort of turn thaton and sometimes you have no
choice to Definitely.
I completely understand that itwouldn't be beneficial for the
project just another week.
I think it's worth saying thattoo.
If you get to that point, rightis like look, it's nearly there,
but I'm just not quite happywith it.
I think that's a fair point andI guess it's harder for people
(30:00):
who aren't creative tounderstand that, because your
creativity it's sort of there,it's always there under the
surface.
But there's times when you'rereally on and when you really
just have the inspiration,particularly for that project,
and there are times where you'rereally pushing hard to get it
and you know that it's just itcould be better.
But you need that, that momentwhere you go ah yes, that's it,
(30:21):
that's the thing.
That's what's missing and youcan't just go.
I'm gonna do that.
It just happens right.
I agree, for me it's in theshower and I love the way you
just said that you know to sayto a client it's just not quite
there yet.
I mean, I think in a way italmost shows that you really
care, yeah, and you just want itto be the best it can be.
(30:44):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, and Ithink obviously everybody likes
things to be done in a certaintime frame or they they've got
ideas about when they wantsomething finished.
I think that one of the biggestthings for any project, even a
project that's running reallysmoothly and seems to be going
really well I feel like youshould always just be prepared
(31:06):
for whatever you think timeframeit's going to be.
It's probably going to be more,particularly when you get to
kind of like the trades and thebuilding and and now especially
with um, you know, in australiaand in particular in melbourne,
where we are, I can't predictthe length of time it's going to
take just to get a trade on ajob, and you might want to work
with this particular joiner andhe's booked out for six months,
(31:28):
but you're not finished thedrawings yet.
So you can't even get himinvolved yet and he kind of
knows it's coming, but you can'tbook him because you don't have
it all.
So you've kind of got to just,I don't know, there's got to be
a little bit of fluidity and Idon't know movement in that, I
think, to make sure that you'renot compromising.
There's just too many movingparts and we can't make these
(31:48):
promises that that's actuallynot within our control, like
securing a trade, and I knowI've had clients that have been
so frustrated.
You know it's just a bathroomrenovation.
They just want this newbathroom.
Also, stop watching the block.
Yeah, exactly, oh, my God, Imean for that to work, you and I
(32:11):
would have to be literally inthere with sledgehammers and
laying the tiles, right, well,it's all right, we'll get it
done for you, don't worry, itwon't be, won't be perfect.
Do you want to go on the blocknext year?
Yeah, let's do it.
Yeah, highly entertaining, ohdear.
I feel like a similar thing tothat, um, like the
(32:32):
over-promising.
For me it's under-quoting.
So you know, there are somethings that are harder to work
out and we all know as designersif you're a designer listening
that it is really tricky toquote projects sometimes.
Sometimes you just kind of knowno, I've been doing this for a
while.
This is a very similar projectto this one.
I kind of know what that shouldcost, but then all it takes
(33:00):
particularly if you've done flatfee is for something not to
quite work or for you needing tospend more time on it because
you can't quite get there.
So I find that really hard andI think it's quite easy to
underquote it because we wantthe price to be also right for
the client.
So you, just, you know theamount of designers I've talked
to and I've spoken to you aboutthis where you, you, you get
there, you've worked it all out.
You put the number down and youlook at the number and you go,
oh no, I don't know, I'm justgoing to drop a few.
(33:20):
I'll drop a zero off it.
Well, probably not that much,but like you know, you have so
many zeros, just want to take it, can lose one.
You know I just want to.
I just want to just shave thatback a little bit.
It's making me uncomfortable.
But you've got to really trustyourself, because that's when
you stuff it up and you're inthe project and you're losing
money, essentially because youspend too much time on it.
(33:44):
I agree, even mistakes thataren't your mistakes new, but
because you were involved in theproject, you probably spent
time trying to help work it out.
You know even admin talking toboth the client, the joiner,
maybe doing a site check orwhatever.
That's stuff that you haven'tfactored in, but you're just
(34:05):
trying to do the right thing andsome of it's not things that
you can go.
The client's going to need yourhelp.
It's like you kind of want togo well, okay, sure, that's
going to be three hours of mytime.
Like it's kind of not how youroll on a project, right, it's
sort of.
I know it's like this fine linethere and it was like, you know,
sleepless nights because you'rejust worried and you want it to
be great and amazing and you'rejust like I can't figure this
(34:26):
out.
I can't figure it out, yeah,but yeah, you know it is so hard
when it comes to the fees andeverything, and I've just
learned that if I've underquotedand I'm working on a project,
working on a project and I'm notbeing compensated for it, it
just builds up resentment and Ican't do my best work from that
mindset.
So, yeah, that's.
(34:47):
It's really that's really tough.
But, yeah, you do have to kindof stand your ground and say,
well, this is actually what itcosts for me to be in business.
Like it's expensive to be inbusiness.
It is yeah, we've got people tofeed, yeah, and I think that
you know.
It comes back to another mistakethat I've made, which is
(35:08):
sometimes you know mistakes thatyou've made, you have to
rectify them.
That you've made, you have torectify them.
And so, yes, when it comes toyou know, pricing our work
properly, you do have to allowfor those sometimes mistakes
that will happen.
And one of them I look back onand I'm like you know what?
That wasn't my mistake and I'malways too quick to say, oops,
that was me.
(35:29):
Like I think that's a stupidway to be, but anyway, I'm
trying not to do that anymore.
I mean, it was with a schedule.
So a schedule that I'd issuedfor a project and this was the
painting schedule.
There were lots of differentcolors in this project and I
actually the builder picked upon something.
He said, oh, is that right?
And I said, let me revise that.
(35:49):
So I revised the schedule andit was Let me revise that.
So I revised the schedule andit was, you know, revision,
underscore A, rev A, and Ihighlighted some of the things
that needed revising.
But I'd forgotten to highlightone of them and so he worked off
an old schedule, the first onewhen he ordered these shelves to
(36:11):
be too packed in the color tomatch the wall.
And he said and when they weredelivered I said that's the
wrong color, I'd updated that onthe schedule here.
He said, oh, but it wasn'thighlighted.
And I said, well, that was themost recent schedule though, so
you shouldn't have been lookingat the old one.
Yeah, because it was right atthe beginning of the project.
That's kind of a bit notiness.
(36:31):
And he said no, no.
He said no, I didn't, thatwasn't highlighted and it was on
the original.
So I was like, okay, well, so Ithen arranged for a new
two-packer to come pick them up,re-spray them at my expense,
and I'm like you know what, Ishould have stood my ground
there because it wasn'thighlighted, but it was still on
(36:52):
the latest architecturalrevision.
But you know, it's intimidatingsometimes when you're talking to
builders.
Oh, completely.
And you know I mean sometimesthey will throw you under the
bus when really that was not myfault.
Oh, I've had that happen a lot.
Yeah, I love I mean I shouldn'tsay a lot it happens
occasionally Most of the tradesI work with they'll call you
(37:16):
first and say, hey, looks likethis has happened or whatever it
is.
So you have a chance even justto think about how you're going
to address that, because I don'tlike to go to a client and say,
look, this is wrong.
I'll work out what to do.
I like to know what mysolutions are and then I can go
and say, look, this has happened, this is what we're going to do
.
So it just at least puts theirmind at ease.
And you don't always have thesolution right away.
But the amount of times thatI've and it's sort of my mistake
(37:39):
really having a job whereyou're not really controlling
the trades but you're not kindof speaking to them and they're
speaking directly to the ownermore than they are you, and so
they just say the stupideststuff.
I mean, there's the old painterssaying that the colour's not
good.
That definitely happens.
I think most painters have anopinion about the colour.
(38:01):
You know builders going oh,this is like this, she should
have known that this shouldn'thave been this or whatever.
And I've had clients come to melike annoyed and I'm like hang
on a minute.
No, that's actually not me atall, oh God.
But the builder just sort ofthrew it because they just I
don't know, some of them are abit like oh I don't know like
kind of gossipy or something.
(38:22):
They like the drama.
Some people like the drama.
They actually do To kind ofcreate a little bit of it or
complaining.
You know like some people justlike to complain, and there are
trades people that are like thatNot all of them, in fact, most
people that I work with are not,but the occasional one.
It's very frustrating.
I think most people don't wantto put their hand up and say
(38:43):
I've made a mistake.
And I mean, I like your pointthere that sometimes you don't
need to get the client involvedwith things that go on.
And I think that's what I triedto do.
I tried to be like I've gotthis, I can handle this Client
doesn't need to know there'sbeen a mistake here, whereas in
retrospect I should have saidhold on a minute, this is what's
on the latest schedule.
(39:04):
Why was this not followed and Icould have got the client on
board?
Anyway, it's been how manyyears Probably eight years since
that happened and you stillwake up at night I do.
It's just another nightmare, Iknow, I know, but it turned out
to be a beautiful project.
But, yeah, I think the biggestlesson is, you know, we have to
(39:28):
stand up for ourselves becausenobody else is going to do it.
That's true.
And when it comes to costing$1,000 or $2,000 for some
mistake, that really wasn't myfault yeah, you know, I think we
have to really be our ownadvocate for that.
I've also had a couple sort ofsimilar but different.
I had documentation done forsome joinery and it was during
(39:51):
the old COVID days and they weredoing a meeting with the joiner
in his factory and goingthrough it all and I felt like
the documentation was prettysolid.
But there was just like oneview that wasn't like I don't
know, I blame.
I think it was done in SketchUpPlan and you know like it's not
(40:14):
very good with line weights.
So, like I'm old schooldocumenter, right, line weights
are everything for when you'rereading a drawing and I learned
to hand draw, that's probably mybest way to document.
I'm too slow at the other stuff, so I get somebody else to do
that for me.
I just it's not a skill I wantto concentrate on now.
So I had someone else do it.
(40:36):
It was done in SketchUp plan andthe line weight in this
particular elevation made itlook like everything was on the
same plane instead of somethingwas behind something else.
And if I had have been in thosemeetings I would have picked up
on it.
But because it was COVID, itwas like, oh, there's only
allowed to be X amount of peopleand the client wanted to go to
the meeting.
I think she'd found the joiner.
So there was like, oh, there'sonly allowed to be X amount of
people and the client wanted togo to the meeting.
I think she'd found the joiner.
So there was again that kind ofrelationship with the trade.
(40:59):
I thought what could go wrong?
I feel like the documentation'sright If they've got questions,
and I had a couple of questionsand they'd come back to me.
Anyway, on site I'm not goingto explain exactly what it is,
just because the client could belistening, but they didn't pick
it up.
I picked it up and it was okayand it didn't look terrible, but
(41:19):
for me it would have driven meinsane.
I just knew it wasn't right theway it had been done.
Yeah, so to this day itprobably still exists like that,
but I undernourished about whatto do.
I kind of went, oh it's in,what are the solutions?
And I really got anxiety aboutit.
I would lay awake at nightthinking about it going.
(41:40):
It's not right.
The client didn't even noticeit, but I noticed it.
I think I spoke to the builderabout it because I loved the
builder, he was great to workwith and I said look, I'm really
agonizing over this.
Do I tell them that it's notwhat I intended?
Do I leave it?
He goes.
They're really happy with it.
Why would you tell them?
But, like I just had a full-onanxiety, I still think about it
(42:02):
now because it wasn't right andI like things to be right, I
know, and, yeah, sometimes youknow you do have to make that
call.
Am I stressing out oversomething that's important to me
and it's a designer kind ofthing, or is the client
absolutely just loving it andyou don't?
You know you could.
You could really dampen thewhole project if you pointed out
(42:25):
this thing.
That was really bothering you.
They're like well, if, and thenthey can't unsee it right, yeah
, yeah, it's a fine line, though, but if there's a mistake that
you're like, you know whatthat's affecting the
functionality or that'saffecting, oh, 100%, that's
different.
It was just a visual.
It's almost too hard for me toexplain it anyway.
But yeah, just bloody lineweights.
(42:46):
I know, isn't it crazy how likeit's so important that drawings
are drawn correctly?
And I think how we would havewhat I learned from that was
even drawn correctly, and Ithink how we would have what I
learned from that was, eventhough it's harder to get the
line weights right in somethinglike SketchUp Plan, have a 3D in
the document.
We didn't have a 3D in thedocumentation and we could have
because it was all in 3D andjust to show, if they had been
(43:08):
able to just see that in threedimensions, they would have
noticed it straight away.
So I learned from that going oh, why didn't we have the?
Why didn't we have the 3d?
And so that was sort of thething that was missing to paint
the full picture.
Anyway, yeah, they just they dobecome useful, even in
construction drawings to put the3d in there.
But we learn, we learn ourlessons and we hopefully do
(43:29):
better or hopefully not make thesame mistake twice.
That's a bummer when thathappens.
Oh gosh, yes, well, then youmight start to examine what
you're doing wrong.
Yes, you know what I would loveIf you are listening to this.
Why don't you just send us aquick DM and tell us one of your
little fun mistakes, if you'rebrave enough to share it,
(43:49):
because I'd be so curious.
Yeah, and even when we postabout this fun, jump in the
comments if you're brave enoughto put it in there.
But, yes, please DM us andwe'll share them anonymously,
because that could be quite fun.
Yeah, that's a great idea.
All right, bree, that was sofun.
Thank you, thanks.
Yeah, see you next time.
(44:09):
We've got some great episodeslined up.
Oh, we do Some cool guests Talk.
We've got some great episodeslined up.
Oh, we do Some cool guests Talksoon.
Bye, bye.
So thank you guys for listeningin.
And just a quick reminder ifyou would like some help with
the interiors for your own home,I can help you in a course
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
Or, for designers out there,come into the Design Society for
(44:31):
business and marketing and allof the things.
Yeah, the Design Society forbusiness and marketing and all
of the things.
Yeah, and in the same shownotes you'll find a link to sign
up for my soon to be releasedfurniture collections
pre-selected furniturecollections and cool trend
information, and then, in thefuture, some short courses on
styling and trends as well.
So, good Bree, we've got theutmost respect for the
(44:53):
Wurundjeri people of the KulinNation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
(45:16):
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.
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