Design Professions Demystified: Designers, Architects and Stylists

What truly distinguishes interior designers from architects and decorators? Discover the answer as we unravel the complexities of these professions, ensuring you never misstep when hiring for your next project. Join us on a journey through the multifaceted world of interior design, where we dissect the roles and specialties within the industry, from commercial spaces to cozy home renovations. Our conversation guarantees clarity in understanding the often-overlapping responsibilities and skills essential for success in any design endeavor.

As we navigate the intricate landscape of design professions, we spotlight the importance of procurement and transparency, stressing the need for clear communication between clients and professionals. By demystifying the protected title of "architect" and shedding light on the undervaluation of decorators, we provide personal insights and industry perspectives that challenge conventional notions. With an emphasis on collaboration and the expanding scope of design education, we aim to elevate your appreciation for the artistry involved in creating functional and beautiful spaces.

Styling’s evolution is no less impressive, as we explore its journey from editorial shoots to an essential component of real estate. From magazine covers to compelling property visuals, the stylist's role is as dynamic as it is creative. We share captivating stories of styling triumphs, illustrating how seasoned decorators continue to learn from the ever-evolving styling craft. 

Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD

If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?

These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE

YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi there, I'm Bree and I'm Lauren Li.
Welcome to Design Anatomy,where we explore and dissect the
world of interior design.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Today we are going to be dissecting.
What does an interior designerdo, an interior architect do an
interior decorator do All thesedesign professionals?
What do they get up to, haveyou ever wondered?
Well, we're going to tell you.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It's actually pretty confusing, brie, and it is
something that you know.
Clients come to us.
They're confused, they don'tknow who they need on their team
and, to be honest with you alot of interior designers or
graduates.
We're trying to figure outwhere we fit in and what we want
to do.
So I'm really excited to betalking about this topic and
hopefully shedding some light onthis.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think that there are so many different facets of
the design industry, which, kindof, is what makes it exciting,
because lots of us cross overinto those different areas, but
it can be super confusing forsomeone who doesn't really
understand all of thosedifferent aspects.
So I think we're going to startby pulling apart interior
designers.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I think that's a good place to start and I think that
you know this term interiordesigner.
It just it's like a bit of ablanket term for a lot of other
subcategories within interiordesign and there are so many, so
many different types ofinterior designers out there and
I know that.
You know, when I graduated frominterior design, the bachelor

(01:29):
degree, I did not know, I didnot touch a fabric.
You know it wasn't what Ithought it was.
So, and I think both of ourbackgrounds come from a bit more
of a commercial kind of world.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that definitelyinterior designer is probably
the broadest term of them allbecause it also gets used by
lots of different people doingdifferent things.
As you said, it can kind ofcross over into more that
decorator aspect, which we'lltouch on and explain where it's
more about decorating andfabrics and the materials, where

(02:02):
it's more about decorating andfabrics and the materials.
But what you and I have done Iwas basically commercial
officers.
We've both done a bit of retailand hospo as well and that is
more really the nitty-gritty ofsort of more structural design,

(02:29):
so it could be walls and thingslike that.
My first job was literallylayouts of workstations on whole
floors of big, you knowhigh-rise buildings and working
out how many to fit in there andhow many offices went around
the outside.
That got the windows and wherewas the executive office.
And probably the most fun bitof that was doing the bathrooms
and the reception areas becausethey were a bit more creative.
But it was all very much youknow on paper at the time and

(02:50):
lots of drawing and lots of likedesigning.
How things come together, Isuppose, is a good way to put it
.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I feel like I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I was the.
You did the same right.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Or similar, the same workplace and it's, yeah, the
fun areas, the reception, as yousay, the breakout areas.
But then you know there's awhole world of retail design and
I opened up a few amazingflagship stores when Sydney
Westfield opened and that wasreally exciting, but honestly, a
lot of it is churning out thesame thing.

(03:22):
You've got, yeah, hospitality,so you know your favourite
restaurants, cafes.
You know an interior designerhas been in there and designed
those spaces.
There's education I worked on afew Melbourne University of
Melbourne buildings.
Then there's more specialised,you know, there's hospital.
Sorry, not hospitality, buthospitals.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, of course you know the medical and the science
labs.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
There's just, yeah, lots of different niches in that
.
So I think you know, when you,when somebody pictures an
interior designer, they might bepicturing somebody who is
waving around paint swatches andswishing fabrics around.
I mean, it's very nice when weget to do that, but it's like 1%
.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And there is a whole other yeah,it's a whole other sector that
is a lot more commercial yeahand then obviously we have that
residential side of things whereit could be anything from
designing bathrooms, kitchens,doing renovations, actually
updating floor plans, extensionsand all of that sort of thing.

(04:28):
So I think probably what we.
I guess if you're looking foran interior designer, I guess
the thing that you need to workout is what sort of work they do
.
So look into their work,because you don't want to be
potentially approaching aninterior designer to do your
residential renovation and whatthey do is retail, so they're

(04:51):
probably not going to take it on.
There are designers that crossover into different areas.
I know I've done a lot of thatin the past, but most of us will
kind of have our lanes that wesort of specialise in, I suppose
.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, true, and I think that, yeah, if we're
talking about residential, Ithink that's probably we'll
continue with that, I think,when we're comparing them
because it is so wide.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, true, and I think most of the people that
are listening to us are probablygoing to be thinking about that
, particularly if it's ahomeowner, I don't know that
we're going to get heaps ofpeople coming on because they
want to design their shop.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
but maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, or can we just fit in 10
more workstations?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
in that floor plan I could do that for you in my
sleep.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
So I guess, like what an interior designer does, like
we need to be able to, you know, listen to the client, take on
that client brief, create adesign response to that and
communicate that back to theclient.
So there's lots of differentways that you can do that.
It could be, you know, pen topaper in terms of sketching, you

(05:58):
might want to do a 3D sort ofsketch.
You might want to jump onto youknow different softwares to
communicate that design.
So I feel like a lot of thework that we do as designers is
just communication and it's notalways verbal.
It's through materials.
It's materials boards, moodboards and putting together 3D

(06:18):
visualizations, where, if that'ssomething you do yourself or
you want to outsource it, andthen the next step is then
communicating that to a builderor to get permits and things so
that they can understand thedesign, quote it and then build
it.
So, again, it's just adifferent way of communicating

(06:39):
through technical drawings.
Yeah, that's so true.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, I feel like I feel like I find one of the most
interesting and challengingparts actually of being a
designer is interpreting thatinitial brief and and the great
feeling you have when you get itright.
And you come back to the clientand they can see that you've
understood and exceeded theirexpectations.

(07:05):
That's kind of my goal is thatwhen you go back to them, they
go.
You've totally gotten it,actually more than I even was
able to think of myself.
You've taken it past that andshown me more, but it's exactly
what I wanted.
That's what I want to hear in ameeting.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
It's so weird.
I think there's definitely abit of like intuition and mind
reading that you can go on andsometimes you don't always nail
it the first time you know,sometimes you present something
and then the client's like Iknow that I told you that I
liked this, but that's, and Iusually go a bit over the top,
just rein it in a bit.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
I like yellow and you just give them everything
yellow.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, that would be like your dream brief, probably.
Oh really, what are you talkingabout?
Yeah, I don't know.
I somehow thought that Justwearing a beautiful yellow top
and yellow artwork in thebackground there.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Don't apologise, there's a little yellow going on
.
I mean sorry for those who arelistening and can't actually see
what I'm talking about, notpointing it out and explaining
it.
We are.
Yeah, no, so I guess you didtouch on also documentation,
which is what we'll call it,which is those technical
drawings that also need to becommunicated to be able to

(08:19):
create what it is that we haveput forward to the client, and
that probably takes us to, youknow, qualifications as well,
because not everyone that iscalling themselves an interior
designer can actually do that.
Sometimes they'll bring in adraftsperson or someone to
document for them, and if thereare permits involved, not every

(08:42):
interior designer can submitpermits as well.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
So yeah, we often use other people in our team, right
, yeah, yeah, I mean thereactually are quite a lot of hats
to wear as an interior designer, from that you know
communication level to that mindreading level, sometimes
marriage counsellor it projectstoo.
You get to know the family withthe person quite well and you

(09:08):
ask a lot of questions and wedon't want to just be nosy, but
we want to understand how ourclients live so that we can
design a space that suits.
And you know I've madeassumptions that are wrong.
You know, for instance, when itcomes to wardrobe space, I'm
feeling like, well, obviouslyshe's going to want this whole
huge wardrobe.
And he's like, actually, haveyou seen my sneakers collection?

(09:29):
It's wild.
I'm like, wow, we are going tohave to really step up your side
of the wardrobe.
So you're really getting toknow all of these quirks about
your client and the whole familyand even the dog.
So we design for everyone inthe family.
So it is lovely when you dohave that really nice
relationship.
But, yeah, you do need to knowhow people want to live in their

(09:52):
home so that you can create.
You designer it's filling up anexisting space with furniture.
That could be one part.
It could be staying within thatbuilding envelope,

(10:13):
reconfiguring the internalspaces, reorganizing where the
kitchen, the living rooms are.
It could also be.
Are it could also be?
Oh, I don't really.
I find it really hard to designthe externals, but I want a
window here, because when you'resitting in the living room and
you want to see the view so it'sthings like that All of a

(10:36):
sudden you are designing thatexternal sort of building and
even new builds, renovations, orjust like a kitchen and
bathroom renovation.
It doesn't have to be.
It's such a wide range, don'tyou think?

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, I think the point is from, I guess,
explaining interior design.
It's exactly as you said.
It is quite broad, but whatdifferentiates we're saying that
properly differentiates we'resaying that properly between,
say, someone like a decorator ora designer, is the ability to

(11:10):
be able to do what you said.
Look at structural things, sobe able to move walls, design
bathrooms and kitchens and morephysical structures and not just
the layers that go on top ofthat.
So, in terms of qualifications,being an interior designer or a
qualified interior designer orsomeone that's really worked in
the industry for a long time andlearnt this over a period of

(11:32):
time, they will have the skillsto be able to do that type of
work.
So if you're looking for someonewho, when you want to be able
to do kind of more structuralstuff and it's not just can you
come into my existing house andpick the paint colours and the
wallpaper and the carpet and thefurniture and maybe there's

(11:53):
some small things that need tobe done, like can we just move
this door here or whatever.
That's a little bit differentto having someone actually
redesign a floor plan, like yousaid, work out.
Actually this is not the bestplace for the living room, and I
can see that this would workbetter if we move this here and
we move that there and then itsort of becomes more structural.

(12:14):
So I guess that's kind of theline between designer and
decorator I would say.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I agree.
So I suppose in terms of howour fees work, this is not
regulated.
So interior design as aprofession is really not that
old, so it can be reallyconfusing for clients to
navigate this and compare onefee proposal to the next,
because their whole structurecould be totally different.

(12:43):
Um, so I suppose broadlyspeaking it could mean that a
designer could work on an hourlyrate, a designer could have a
fixed fee, or they could alsocharge a procurement fee for
purchasing the, the products andthe items on behalf of the

(13:04):
client.
And for me I do a combinationactually of all of those.
We do a fixed fee for thedesign, which is the part that I
can kind of control, and thenthe coming onto site and just
liaising with the management,yeah, liaising with the

(13:25):
different contractors and trades.
We do that at an hourly rate andthen we have a procurement fee,
which is like an admin fee,just for the purchasing of the
goods for the clients.
So it can be really confusing.
And I also do one-offconsultations as well.
So, yeah, and I think over theyears that's kind of what I've

(13:47):
developed.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, and I think I work quite similarly.
I suppose I approach eachproject differently, but I would
say fixed fee is probably themost common way to quote a
project.
Usually that's a pretty clearbrief.
I know how much time I need tospend on it.
We have a hopefully airtightagreement too, that sort of

(14:12):
constrains, how many designchanges, et cetera.
So we'll be really clear aboutthat.
Within that fixed fee I willalso do hourly for design
management and any kind ofprocurement or anything outside
of what I can predict, becausewhen it comes to going on site

(14:32):
or you're dealing with buildersand trades, you don't really
know how long that's going totake.
So it can be a bit tricky to dothat as a fixed fee.
I would never take that risk,and procurement I would do.
I mean, a lot of people do it asa percentage, and procurement
sorry for people that don'tactually know what we're talking

(14:53):
about is, I guess, one of thelast stages of an interior
design project, and not everyinterior designer does this.
Some of them would get astylist to do it, for instance,
or a decorator, but procurementis when you are, I guess, doing
those last layers of thefurniture.
It can be the curtains andthings like that.

(15:13):
I guess it can cross over alittle bit into the fixtures,
where you're not getting thetrade to purchase the taps and
you're doing it through youraccounts.
Some designers will do that.
Everybody works a little bitdifferently, so that's
procurement.
Procurement is like literallythe purchasing of the things

(15:35):
that are going into the house.
Yeah, so I guess my structureis pretty similar.
I think that what designerscharge will, as in like what the
amount is is going to bedifferent depending on their
skill level and what type ofwork they do.
I guess as well, and theirexperience is probably the best

(15:57):
way to put it.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I guess I don't think that there's a right and wrong
way, but I do think that thebest way is I love that, bosh,
there was going to be somethingcoming the best way is just so
that the client knows how it'sgoing to work.
They need to know how muchthey're going to pay and when

(16:19):
and how this whole procurementthing works.
I just like to keep that allout in the open.
So, but yeah, it's so varied,it is varied, so I suppose the
next profession that we couldtalk about is interior architect
.
Yes, so this is a little bit ofa tricky one because the term

(16:44):
architect, it's a protectedtitle and you can only call
yourself an architect if youhave completed the qualification
and then sat the registration.
It's like being a doctor.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, right.
It's confusing because thereare degrees that you can

(17:04):
undertake that are calledinterior architecture, and I get
it Like when you've graduated,you want to tell clients that
you're not a decorator, and aneasy way to do that is to use
that title, interior architect,because just like instantly,
you're getting this kind ofvisual of somebody that's moving

(17:27):
walls, that's creating internalspaces which is, I mean, that's
what I guess an interiordesigner does as well.
But because it's such a blanketterm, because interior design is
such a blanket term, it doeskind of capture that decorator
and I think that some interiordesigners really want to
separate themselves out fromdecorators.

(17:47):
So, yeah, this interiorarchitecture title.
It's really confusing and ifyou call yourself an interior
architect, just make sure thatyou are actually a fully
qualified and registeredarchitect, because you can get
into a little hot water if youuse that title and you're not an

(18:08):
architect.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, it is a really confusingone, and I think that maybe the
way some people who've done thatcourse kind of get around it is
if you go onto their websiteyou can see that that's what
their qualification is andthey'll kind of make that clear.
They just can't say I am aninterior architect, that's quite

(18:31):
confusing and the interiorarchitect course isn't
dissimilar to the high levelinterior designer course.
They're pretty similar aspectsof the same thing.
Definitely it's just a wordingand I agree.
I think actually I alwayswanted to be called an interior
architect.
And there was a lot ofdiscussion when I was younger,

(18:53):
first in the interior designworld, and when I used to look
down my nose at decorators,which I don't anymore.
But back then it was like well,I if say you're talking to your
friends or your family andsaying you're an interior
designer, they don't think aboutwhat we've got in our heads,
particularly when you're workingin commercial or you know more

(19:15):
sort of structural area.
They're thinking it's cushionsand curtains and because I
wasn't doing any of that, I feltlike it was a little bit
insulting.
So interior architect?
I remember there was a lot ofconversations back when I was
just sort of in that world, thatcommercial world, about trying

(19:36):
to make that a thing where wewere allowed to differentiate
ourselves like that.
I don't think back then thatinterior architecture course
existed either, so it was just aterm that was sort of being
thrown around to try and say,well look, this is the
difference between an interiordesigner and someone who
actually, you know, interiordesigner, that's a decorator,

(19:57):
because that's what happens withthat term Anyway.
So yes, I definitely used tolook down my nose a little bit
at that.
It can be quite confusing.
I think it's just looking intoif you're looking at, I guess,
hiring a designer, just lookinginto what they do, so that you
can kind of see what their foliois and what they work on, and

(20:18):
asking them, I suppose reachingout if you're interested, and
saying this is the sort ofproject I'm doing, I love your
work and is this the sort ofproject you would take on?

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Oh, I absolutely agree with everything you said,
and I was the same too, becauseI'd studied the diploma interior
design and decoration at RMIT,which I know so many people have
completed that it's fantastic.
And then I went on and did thebachelor degree at Swinburne of
interior design and so I had sixyears of education and then I

(20:49):
went out and I worked atcommercial architecture
practices sort of mid-size Iguess.
So that conversation you knowwhen you're meeting your
friend's mum or whatever, andwhat are you?
What are you doing?
Oh, I'm an interior designer.
That's like come over because Ican't work out which frilly
cushion to have on my sofa.

(21:10):
You'd be just rolling your eyesgoing.
I don't do that because you'vejust been having your head in a
computer doing you know, autocadmarkups for months on end and
in schedules and all of thismore technical thing.
But I suppose, as I have got so, so much older, I really
appreciate the work thatdecorators do, and it's not

(21:33):
lesser than it's, just different.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah it is.
Yeah, no, totally yeah.
I think I have a totaldifferent respect for, you know,
there's definitely things thatI am it's not my skill set and
there are amazing decorators whoor interior designers that do
decoration, which is often likereally, that's kind of a lot of
what I do now.
I mean, I'll still do bathroomsand kitchens and reconfigure

(21:57):
floor plans and residential, butyou know, a lot of what I do is
decoration essentially, and so,yeah, I definitely don't have
that same attitude that I hadbefore.
There's room for all of us andto have different skill sets and
kind of bring different peopleinto your team as well on a
project that can bring like alevel of skill that you don't

(22:21):
have.
It's great to want to doeverything and I think I went
through a phase of that but yourealize it's great to want to do
everything and I think I wentthrough a phase of that but you
realise that there's so muchresearch to do and if someone
specialises in that, whywouldn't you bring them on and
make the job even better byusing that sort of skill?

Speaker 1 (22:37):
set Absolutely.
So, yeah, I get why interiorarchitects well, you can't use
that term.
But if you studied interiorarchitecture, I get why you
would.
Well, you can't use that term,but if you studied interior
architecture, I get why youwould want to differentiate.
So shall we talk aboutarchitects and what they offer,
what they do.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah.
So I guess that's kind of, andthe way I would, I guess, draw
that line between an architectand an interior designer is
literally inside and outside.
So architects will often workon the interior design, but it's
more of the shell of it.
I suppose they will sometimesdo bathrooms, kitchens and

(23:16):
finishes on those things, orthey will have an interior
designer that works with them onthe project issues on those
things, or they will have aninterior designer that works
with them on the project.
Just depending on you know whatthey do.
And I think with an architect,obviously they have the know-how
to be able to create astructure that is going to work
and not fall down, which is whythey have to be registered, a

(23:37):
bit like I said.
Like you know, you go to adoctor because you know they
know how to make sure they'redoing the right thing with you.
It's the same thing with anarchitect you go to them because
you know that they know how tocreate a structure.
I guess that's going to workand not create any issues.
Choose, I guess closely relatedis building designer, and I'll

(24:01):
just bring this up now because Iguess the way I kind of see the
difference between those two.
So a building designer can do alot of the same structural type
work that an architect can.
But I was thinking that anarchitect, what they bring is a
particular point of view and anaesthetic.

(24:23):
So you'll often find that Iguess when you're looking at
architects, that a particulararchitect will do the same kind
of work in different iterations.
They have a strong point ofview about how something should
look or the philosophy of theirdesign, whereas a building
designer you could probably goto with your own ideas and say

(24:50):
this is the type of home I wantto create or whatever it is, and
they're probably going to beable to take on someone else's
point of view a bit easier thana lot of architects who will
generally have their own pointof view.
That you go to them for that aswell, I don't know what do you
think?

Speaker 1 (25:08):
I think that's perfect, yeah, perfect.
I think an architect candeliver a design to you that
captures all of the things onyour wishlist, but so much more,
so much more, and I mean anarchitect can deliver something
that is just pure beauty andmagic, incredible functionality
but, there's a bit more I don'tknow poetry in that than just a
ticking off a wish list.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yes, and that's that difference right.
So there's, an artistry toarchitecture, particularly those
that do it well.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Exactly and you know you're getting those things that
you need but you're gettingthat extra which is just
enhancing your day-to-day, youknow way of life inside your
property.
So I suppose you know anarchitect.
Obviously they need to bequalified I think it's a
six-year qualification and thenonce they have graduated, as I

(26:02):
mentioned before, they can'tcall themselves an architect
until they have registered,which is experience, and
completing an exam which I'veheard is horrendous.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
So glad that interior designers don't need to do that
.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh no, thank you, no more exams.
And the way that an architectsort of structures their fees is
a lot more traditional.
I feel like they're pretty muchall aligned just because
architecture has just beenaround for a lot longer than
interior design.
So they will usually base theirfees off a percentage of the
cost of the build and then theymight have like a monthly

(26:41):
retainer during this contractadmin phase, so a architect can
help administer the contract, sobetween the client and the
builder.
So I think they go a lot morein depth there than interior
designers do, which just meansthat you know the design that
you've wanted, that you'veagreed to, that you're in love

(27:01):
with, that your architect hascreated.
You can work with her so thatshe can make sure that the
builder is going to deliver whatthey've quoted for and what
you've agreed to.
So you're getting that really,really great level of service
there too.
And I think it's really good,as you said, brie, to contrast

(27:24):
that with a building designer,because a building designer,
basically they draw.
If you have a design in mind orif you have a wish list, they
will draw that for you.
And I mean, like all of theseprofessions, there are really

(27:46):
wonderful, incredible talentedbuilding designers out there
that will create a plan that iswhat you've wanted and more, but
they're not trained at the samelevel of design as an architect
.
But I feel that for and they'realso a lot less in the fees.
I think that's probably safe tosay.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, I would agree.
I think that's probably theother thing that differentiates
between the two.
And you're right, it's a.
I guess it's a qualificationlevel as well.
I guess it's a qualificationlevel as well.
So it just depends on a budgetand how much you, I guess, want

(28:34):
that design professional to beinvolved in the actual design.
I mean, architect is going tokind of give you kind of
everything, whereas buildingdesigner will have there'll be
things that they cannot do orthings that they aren't
qualified to do compared to anarchitect, I think.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I feel like as well, maybe architects might be
loosening up a little bit,because, in terms of offering
everything, I think, that somearchitects might be able to
offer you.
Here is this incredible concept, and you can go off, and I've
had projects like that, wherethe clients engage the architect
for those incredible designideas and then they what you're

(29:10):
thinking and yeah, but I thinkfor us, for my business.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's been wonderful working with a great drafts
person.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Because I get to have my design implemented and we
partner up and this draftsersonwill document it all, submit it
to council because, brie, I'vegot no interest in doing that
kind of thing.
I don't want to do permitdrawings and things.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
I used to love to document back in the day.
I really would get right intoit.
I'd go into a zone and I usedto love doing the drawings.
Now I just don't have the lovefor it anymore and I'm not
skilled as much as someone whodedicate.
That's what they do, so I knowthey're going to do it faster.

(30:12):
It's probably going to be moreeconomical because they're going
to be faster.
They're probably going to bemore efficient in the way they
draw something to explain itcompared to me.
Now I know how to tell someonehow to do it, but for me to sit
down and do it would probablytake like five times as long now
.
It's so out of the game.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, it doesn't take long for new technology to come
in, and you're like oh, my God.
I'm clicking away on AutoCAD.
I should be doing this in Revitor something.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I use SketchUp, which is a little user-friendly and
you know I've done your SketchUpcourse because I thought I
think I need to be getting intothis and I've done it and I
understand SketchUp.
But now I just get other peopleto do it so I can always go
into that model and move thingsaround or look at different
views.
But for me to build that,compared to someone who does it

(30:58):
all the time would take me, youknow, a week and it might take
them half a day.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Totally.
Why would you do that?
I don't have the patience.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, I get I don't have the patience for it.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
No, and you need to use you know your talents, more
Like your design talents yeah,Instead of clicking away on a
computer, instead of clickingaway on a computer.
But yeah, I found it reallygreat working with a
draftsperson because I've beenable to put together this

(31:28):
project that we completed abouta year or so ago down in Mount
Martha, and it was the clientwanting a bigger living space,
so they wanted to extend on thisproperty.
But the thing was it had agreat view of the water, with
these small windows that lookedout onto the water and a small
living room.
And what we ended up doing?

(31:50):
Instead of having two livingrooms, we opened it all up, we
expanded the whole kitchen,relocated it, and they didn't
actually need to push out thebuilding envelope at all.
So I'm saving them so muchmoney.
But the drafts person came inand I said hey, Cam, this is

(32:10):
what I'm thinking.
Let's get the engineer in andwe need to move this wall out
and we're going to reconfigurethis.
He draws up the floor plan, hedraws up the external elevations
, because we relocated and webasically moved a whole lot of
windows and I'm like this is thecladding and he submits all of

(32:32):
that.
He does all of that for thebuilder and I do the internal
documentation kitchen, bathroom,all those kind of benchtop
details and things and that'swhere I like to figure stuff out
.
But it is.
It's drawing on your strengthsand working with a great team.
So, yeah, that's really fun.

(32:52):
I've found that a lot ofclients find that works quite
well an interior designerpairing up with a draftsperson.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, no, definitely.
I think that's a really goodteam and I love a draftsperson
who also can show me sometimes abetter way to do it.
I might have an idea in termsof the structure of how I think
it might come together andthey'll sort of go.
Actually, you could do it likethis and it's going to be more
efficient or cheaper or whateverit is.

(33:19):
Yeah, it's great to have thosepeople around you to just make
everything kind of better really.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh, definitely, it's all about collaboration, love a
collaboration.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Love, that I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
it's the same thing with all of the trades right.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, I'm digressing slightly, but you
want collaboration with yourtrades and you want them to
point out where something couldbe done better.
That's what always makes, Iguess, a better project.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Definitely.
I mean, that's why we try toget a builder on board early,
whether or not they're engagedwith the client or not.
Let's get a builder in, let'swalk through the property, let's
throw around some big ideas,and they're doing this every day
.
They're knowing the price ofthings and, yeah, collaboration,
yeah, no for sure.
So what if we talk aboutinterior decorator?

(34:10):
We sort of touched on thatbefore.
So the way that I sort of seethe difference between so an
interior designer is going tofocus on aesthetics and function
, whereas a decorator is, Iwould say, more focus on
aesthetics and function, whereasa decorator is, I would say,
more focused on aesthetics andbecause they're basically
working within an existingbuilding, they're not really

(34:32):
moving walls so much, butthey're filling up a space with
beautiful artwork, furniture,lighting, they might do some
custom joinery, they might dosome custom soft furnishings,
wall colours yeah, I think thatsort of would sum that up, so
they can add that beautifulfinal layer to a property.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I think that's spot on.
I think it's if we look at it aslayers and things that get
added into a space, rather thancreating things in the space
other than potentially joineryor furniture that's often
bespoke.
I think decorators wouldprobably say that's one of their
skill sets is they'll dobespoke decorations.

(35:17):
You know they'll do bespokedecorations, so whether that's a
particular way the windowfinishings are done, the
curtains, bedspreads, evenhaving those made up so that
they're not things that you canwalk into a DERZ and grab off
the shelf, they're making them alittle bit more unique.
And that's sort of where thatskill set sits in being able to,

(35:40):
I guess, know what can be donewith particular fabrics.
Even you know I definitely donot have that skill set and rely
on others for that.
I know it looks good, but youknow they'll really understand
the way a fabric's going to workand whether it can go on a
particular sofa or chair or howit can be used and they'll

(36:00):
really, I guess, be able tobring that to life in a space,
compared to maybe, a designerwho just isn't sitting in that
skill set.
Their skill set sits adjacentto that, I suppose is a good way
to put it.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
I agree and I think that if you've completed the
interior architecture degree,you may not have even touched a
fabric.
I know I didn't, and when I wasworking in these commercial
architecture practices for like10 years, one of the it was
actually one of the wives of oneof the directors said oh, do
you think you could choose awallpaper for my daughter's room
?
I literally had no idea whereto start.

(36:36):
The wallpapers are so many.
I think, we're here in thecommercial world.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
We had like a I did deal with fabrics, but like it
was, like you know, workstationpanels and the commercial
fabrics were, I guess, a muchsmaller range of things.
And then you go intoresidential and even now fabrics
can I mean I love it, but I canget very overwhelmed If you go
into you know, a few differentshowrooms.

(37:04):
There's so much choice.
There are so many colours,patterns, fabric weights, what
the materials are, what they canbe used for.
Understanding all of that andhaving that skillset is like a
whole thing on its own to me.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
It really is.
And it might sound basic, youknow choosing a upholstery
fabric for a sofa, but if youget it wrong and that sofa
starts sort of puddling, youknow how you can sort of see
where the fabric kind ofwrinkles up.
You know, after a few months ofwearing you're like oh God,
didn't have the right amount ofstretch in it, like all these
different little things.

(37:41):
And you know it doesn't soundlike the end of the world, but
when you've spent $20,000,$30,000 on a sofa your client's
not going to be too happy withyou.
So it's not just choosingsomething of nice fabric that
looks good on the internet.
You really kind of do have tounderstand it.
And I don't believe indecorating emergencies, but
sometimes there is a lot ofmoney at stake with decorating

(38:04):
projects and you know thethought of me measuring a window
and ordering directly to aworkroom it gives me a heart
attack.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I've done that and it does give you a heart attack.
Yeah, because once it's made,right, if it's, yeah, just a
little bit too short.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
You can't really fix that.
Well, my first first job when Igraduated, when I was like 21
years old, was for a decoratorand I literally saw that happen.
I mean, I was just fresh, Iwasn't measuring anything, but
the company that I worked for,the little business we went to

(38:40):
do the install for the curtainsand they were about 10
centimeters off the floor.
And I think that really scarredme for life because that was so
expensive.
You know, some of these fabricsthey're $600 a meter.
Oh, yeah, like, yeah.
So I think it's knowing againto collaborate and to call in
your window furnishingsconsultant and I rely on her so

(39:01):
much for that kind of thing.
Yeah, same, but you knowthere's so many little things
that can go wrong.
You know, you just mentioned abedhead, custom bedhead.
Did we allow for PowerPoints inthere?
No, okay, right, well, this isa disaster, like just again.
There's no such thing as adecorating emergency, but I
think a little bit more goesinto it than people first think.

(39:24):
I definitely think so.
I think it's underestimated.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
I do think that people think it's just about
coordinating patterns andcolours, and it isn't.
There is a whole skill set therethat I think should be really
valued.
And there's decorators that havebeen around a long time and
they know so much, and they'rethe ones that kind of end up
probably crossing over into thedesign area as well, even though

(39:49):
maybe that's not what theystudied, because they've got
projects where then the clientsays I love what you did with
our living room, but we reallyneed a bathroom done, and maybe
they've just sort of started tokind of slide into that interior
design area and there iscrossover, crossover.
Um, yeah, I know I worked witha decorator when I was younger,
before I even studied just likework experience and she was one

(40:11):
of the most knowledgeable um,non-designers is probably a good
way to put it because she wasvery much an interior decorator,
that was her business.
But she knew how to, you know,do a bathroom, do a kitchen, you
know small renovation sort ofthing.
She just was very knowledgeablebecause she'd been in the
industry for so long.
So I guess there is somethingis just really learning on the

(40:33):
job with that stuff too.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Absolutely, and I think that's a really good point
.
You know talking about thesedifferent qualifications.
You can work your way up in ajob like an interior decorator.
You can do you know somethingas starting at a certificate, a
cert for in interior decorationI think that might be what it's
called and you might be lookingat you know a second career and

(40:58):
you're not sure.
You're like I don't know if Ineed to go in and do another.
You know degree.
Can I just sort of test thisout and do a shorter course to
figure it out?
And often it's a lot moretechnical than what people think
.
They think that perhaps if Iwanted to work as an interior
decorator I would be justtouching fabrics all day.
And you know, you rememberFrank Frank from Father of the

(41:18):
Bride, oh my god I love Frank.
You know Frank swans in the bath.
You know some kind of eccentriccharacter like that.
In reality, you cannot run abusiness like Frank.
Although he seemed pretty rich,though I don't know, he was
probably ripping his clients off.
We don't want that.
That's why we want transparencywith our pricing.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
I mean, you do produce some beautiful work
though.
That wedding was amazing yeahand then remember in the second
one he created that kid'sbedroom which was like wow, and
they did do a renovation as well.
Frank can do it all.
Frank can do it all Well.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
I always remember the mum from Mrs Doubtfire because
she was an interior designer butshe was really stressed out.
I can kind of relate to her.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Oh, she was too.
I'd totally forgotten.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
I feel like.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I need to re-watch that.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
So I think film and TV have a lot to answer for when
it comes to that perception ofthat airy-fairy interior
decorator.
But in reality there are a lotof moving parts.
Yeah, there's a lot of money atstake and it's ordering, it's
coordinating, but I mean, whenit comes down to it, it's having
that.
Obviously you need to have theeye for it, you need to have the
client trust your taste, but itdoesn't all happen on its own.

(42:34):
You need to still communicateyour design, whether that be in
hand sketches or 3D or howeveryou want to communicate that
design.
It could be fabric mood boards.
You know, I've seen somebeautiful, beautiful fabric
boards when I worked in Londonfor an interior design company
and they just, it was just.

(42:55):
I always remember how beautifulthey were.
There's lots of different waysyou can communicate your design,
but I think it is good to havea bit of a process as well and
not be too much of a frunk whereyou're just like making
decisions on a whim and wavingaround fabrics.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I mean the clients aren't going to put up with that
.
Underestimating him, I reckonhe was all over it.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I am.
I'm putting him down too much.
He was a legend.
I loved him.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Well, I guess kind of decoration is interior
decorator kind of.
For me, then, next thing totalk about is stylist, because
that word has changedconsiderably.
I would say when I firststarted in interior design, I
wouldn't have even known what astylist was, and they probably
only existed as editorialstylists then.
So stylist itself has differentcategories too in um, but

(43:48):
someone will just say I'm astylist and then you'll have to
try and work out what kind ofstyling they do.
So there's editorial style,which, um, is probably the first
form of styling that reallyever happened, and that's where
um you work for a magazine, or amagazine employs you to either
create sets that arephotographed for the magazine,
that communicate a trend, orwhat's good in lighting, what's

(44:10):
good in windows, or whatever itis, or you're going into a home
and zhuzhing it is probably thebest way to put it, because
you'll go into home usually andonly bring flowers, maybe a few
accessories, but you'll sort ofmake sure that the shot looks
great.
So you might put a chair in adifferent spot or, you know like
, change things around so thatthat shot looks amazing, but

(44:31):
you're predominantly usingwhat's already there in the home
.
So I think that's kind of wherestyling started.
And then people started to gothat's a really cool job, and
then they wanted to be stylists.
And then somehow the people whowere kind of decorators, or
that's a really cool job, andthen they wanted to be stylists.
And then somehow the people whowere kind of decorators, or
that's what they wanted to do,started to call it styling.
This is also just my opinion,but I think that there are

(44:54):
interior stylists who are prettymuch interior decorators, but
styling is just a cooler wordnow.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
It is, and I think you know I actually think the
word decorator it does sound toofluffy, also kind of sounds old
fashioned doesn't it, it does,doesn't it, it doesn't sound
very modern to be an interiordecorator.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I think that we're claiming it back.
I'm happy to say that I dointerior decoration I just
happen to wear kind of a lot ofhats and I also do styling.
But when I talk about being astylist I will say you know, I'm
a photographic stylist.
So that means that Ipredominantly style for
photography.
So a brand wants a shoot doneor a magazine so it can cross

(45:37):
over into editorial, but it'sstyling for a shot.
And it's very different to whenpeople say I'm a stylist and
they mean they're a decorator.
That's like different to whenpeople say I'm a stylist and
they mean they're a decorator.
That's like a whole differentjob.
But they're kind of callingthemselves the same thing.
So I've kind of putphotographic in front of it so
that if I say you know I'm astylist, I'll say I'm a
photographic stylist.
So people understand that I'm aphotographic stylist but I'm

(45:59):
also an interior designer andmaybe that crosses over into
interior decoration, just toconfuse her.
It is so nuanced, isn't it?
It is, yeah, well it is nuanced.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
You know, I think you know we talked about an
interior decorator.
They're not so much concernedin function as an interior
designer is it is about.
You know, how can we create abeautiful vignette on this
console table by arranging anartwork, a stack of books and a

(46:29):
lamp?
So they're concerned about thatsort of aesthetics.
They're probably not movingwalls and things and thinking
about the function of a space asmuch.
I mean, we talked about thedifference between the fabrics
and how they still need to, Isuppose, function for the
application.
But I think a stylist the way Isort of see a stylist it's even

(46:53):
less so in terms of functionbecause they're setting up a
well, a photographic stylist, asyou say, they're setting up a
2D image, a photograph.
Yes, there is no function inthat.
So, as you said, they might bemoving this beautiful armchair.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
that's you know that's where the client sits.
Oh, sometimes we're putting itwhere it would never go.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
You're moving furniture sometimes no, like in
front of a fireplace or and ifyou actually stood in the room,
you'd go.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
This makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
But in the shot it looks great.
It's all smoke and mirrors.
Actually, yeah, it is smoke andmirrors and I actually was
chatting to a designer before.
She does interior design, butmostly decoration.
We were talking about photoshoots and I was explaining what
an interior stylist does and atthe beginning she said, oh, I
really don't think I need astylist, like I'm a decorator, I
can do this.
And then at the end of ourdiscussion and I was breaking it

(47:47):
down for her and she's like wow, I've really learned a thing
here, because we were talkingabout some photo shoots that I'd
seen, there's this great image.
It's by Pearson Ward.
I don't know if you know thoseAmerican designers.
They shot a kitchen and it hasa goose in the kitchen.
It's like a country house.
Oh, I need to see this.

(48:07):
You'll have to send it to meand I thought how whimsical and
how sort of 1980s.
That kind of reminds me of 1980sstyling.
You know, the different umeditorial trends, the different
you know way that we shoot, itcan change a lot.
And and there's a Wawa project,which is a kitchen, and it's
this beautiful pinkish tone, andthere's big balls of dough

(48:30):
bread dough on the bench withflowers scattered.
I think Ruth Welsby did thestyling for that.
Again, I just remember thatbecause I was like how wonderful
it's just like somebody ishaving a great day of baking and
they've just stepped out of theshot and it really conjures up
such a great sort of emotion.
So you know that editorialstylist, it is a very

(48:54):
specialized profession andcareer and just because you
might be a great decorator itdoesn't mean that when you can
put that camera in the space youcan style in front of it.
I mean, personally I get kindof paralyzed because I'm under
all this pressure to get theperfect shot and you've got that
one day.
That's why I have like a courseon that so I can help people

(49:15):
plan the day, because it is thatit's so much pressure on that
one day of getting that perfectshot.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
And you're right.
I feel there's lots ofdesigners who wouldn't take on a
stylist for a shoot.
I think it's fair.
It's obviously a lot of outlayin terms of budget to shoot a
project, but I think if theycompared, or if they did it and
had a stylist or the rightstylist or the right team, I

(49:42):
always say stylist andphotographer should be working
together as a team and try andpick one that has already worked
with each other and theyunderstand each other's
strengths and also why you'reshooting it, and you know you
talk about this.
I think in that course, lauren,if you're aiming for Vogue, are
you aiming for Belle?
Is it Home Beautiful?

(50:03):
Is it the Design Files?
I don't know.
Whatever it is that you kind ofwant from that shoot, you
really should have that in mindand not just go into a house and
shoot it and a goodphotographer and stylist will
tell you what your house is goodfor as well, because you might
not really know, and that's fair.
But if you pick a photographerand a stylist who understand the

(50:26):
magazines and they come throughand do what we call a recce of
the home or even just shotsyou've given them, they'll go
look, this isn't a bell houseand usually be very honest with
you, but we think we could getthis into Home Beautiful or
whatever it is.
Or you know, I've also tolddesigners before, because I've

(50:47):
done those sort of shoots, thatit's not a magazine house.
We will make it look amazingfor you.
It'll go on your website.
You'll use it for your socials,it'll be part of your portfolio
, but you probably won't get arun.
Or sometimes the kitchen'samazing but there's not enough
in the house for an article onthe house, but that kitchen may
get picked up by many magazines,so it's always worth having, I

(51:12):
guess, that team look at yourproject so that you get an
understanding of where to spendthe money, invest in that and
then you getting the PR orwhatever it is you want out of
it.
Sometimes people don't careabout magazines, they just want
to shoot it for their portfolioand that's it right.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
And sometimes, as you say, it might not be a whole
house, but that kitchen, andspecifically that butler's
pantry, is wild.
And if you get a stylist in tostyle the butler's pantry, you
upload that to Pinterest.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
You're going to be so famous on Pinterest.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
So, it depends, you know, yeah, where you want to
pitch what you want to do withyour images.
Yeah, I find that reallyinteresting.
So I guess an editorial stylist, you know the way that they
might charge.
They might charge like a halfday rate if it's a half day
photo shoot and a full day rate,those things don't exist Half

(52:06):
day photo shoots.
What's a half day?

Speaker 2 (52:07):
No, sorry, I know, I don't know either Most of the
time, particularly unless youare just shooting a kitchen or
something, it'll be a full dayOne room.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, yeah, if it's a house.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
it'll be a full day, yeah, day rates.
So day rate, half day rate.
A shoot day is usually moreexpensive than a production day,
so you'll have a production dayfee.
So post-production or pre andpost-production depending on
what the job is.
So when they're sourcing, ifthey have to go find extra decor

(52:36):
, or sometimes they'll need tofind extra furniture for you or
do the recce of the house,that'll all fall into
pre-production.
So that'll be a slightly lowerrate usually than a shoot day.
Rate is a little bit higher.
Everyone is slightly differenttoo in the way they do things.
I do know stylists who actuallyjust charge a rate that's the
same, which is kind of fair,because I don't know why.
That's just a historicalstructure that's been put on to

(53:00):
stylists that we do a lowerproduction rate than we do on a
shoot day.
I have no idea why often you domore a lower production rate
than we do on a shoot day.
I've no idea why often you domore work on the production Not
really, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, if you've got a , if an interior designer or an
architect have completed theproject and it was, say, for
instance, a whole new build andthey want to shoot it.
But the furniture was not partof the client brief but client
wanted to use their ownfurniture.
You can't shoot that house withthe client's furniture in there
unless they've got incrediblepieces so so I mean I've done

(53:35):
wild things.
I've literally had a whole truckfull of furniture to shoot a
new build because it needs tolook furnished and lived in if
you want to print it.
So, all of that work to, as yousay, print production, just to
gather a whole house offurniture.
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
It can be quite a lot of work.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
It can be a lot of work.
And really to talk about thenext one, which property stylist
I mean?
I feel like the styling part isquite minimal.
The zhuzhing karate chopping orwhatever for the cushions.
I think property stylist of theold karate chop and the flowers
on the bedside is like the onepercent.

(54:13):
It's the way I see it.
Maybe I don't know if I'm wrong, but I see it as a logistics
kind of job.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Yeah, they're gonna work out what you need right for
each room like a list and thenyeah usually they're also
drawing on their own stock.
Most property stylists, I thinkto be successful in property
styling you either need to havea very good relationship with
the, the higher company that'sloaning out the furniture or
hiring out the furniture, or youliterally have a warehouse of

(54:41):
stuff.
So you'll kind of already knowwhat's going to come together in
that property and often I wouldsay there's a little bit of
repetition.
I mean, everything's going tobe slightly different, but
there's probably like a littlebit more of a formula I would
say to property styling.
I think Would you agree.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Totally, and I think what's expected is the reason
that you're brought in there isthe seller wants to get the
highest price for their property.
Is it about creating abeautiful space?
Is it about creating a livablespace?
No, not really.
It's creating a space that isgoing to get the highest profit,
which means that you're notbeing able to flex your

(55:24):
creativity.
It's all about being the mostgeneric vanilla sometimes.
I mean I'm not speaking for allproperty stylists, but I say in
general it is a little bit.
I think that's why you get thatsameness.
You get those same artworks.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
nothing offensive, Everything's nice and it comes
down to cost, I think too, andwhy you get that repetition A
100%.
It's broad market appeals,probably your aim, or specific
market appeal, depending on whatthe property is, and then it's
budget.
So you will see the sameartwork because that artwork
probably sits in an affordablespot and it's probably owned by

(56:02):
one of the people that hires outthe furniture.
So you will see repetition 100%in property styling and it's
still a particular skill.
I guess that's the thing, right.
That differentiates betweenstylists is the intent.
So you've got a photographicstylist.
The intent is the photographmaking it look great for that.

(56:23):
And then property styling, forinstance, is literally the
intent is we want to sell this,so we want people to walk in and
they kind of have to fall inlove with the property, and then
what goes into it that thestylist puts in just has to make
it feel, I guess, good enough,but not too crazy, because they

(56:43):
also need to be able to imaginethemselves in there.
So that's why it becomes kindof a bit more generic, right, I
know I'm totally speaking offthe cuff because I've done very
little.
I've done maybe three properties, because it's just.
It literally it's a wholedifferent game.
It's just, it's not my, it'snot something I enjoy doing and

(57:04):
it is a lot more of a formulaand it's a lot less of your own
creativity, as you said, beingput into it.
So it's not something that Ilove to do, but I get that.
It's also something that isquite satisfying in a short
amount of time, because you goin and install a place and make
it look kind of more amazingthan what it probably did before
with the homeowner's stuff.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I agree, and I think that satisfaction, that feeling
of that transformation would bequite addictive.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yes, I think so too, because you're doing it for like
that.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, because when you're working on your own
project, I mean, it can be liketwo years until you see that and
then you're sort of like ohgosh.
But yeah, I think that would.
You'd have to have that passionto keep going and to see that
transformation.
And I think a great propertystylist you know imagine how
much value they can add.
But I also feel like you'remaybe getting a recommendation

(57:56):
from a real estate agent, maybewith three other property
stylists, and you might get someclients that are like okay,
well, which one's the cheapest?
I kind of get, I can't, I don'tknow I kind of get that vibe,
because sometimes it's funny, Ithink, with property styling.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I think it's necessary, but there are there's
a level of properties where itprobably doesn't make a very big
difference and that's whyyou'll see people do it,
photograph it and then not keepit for the.
For the rest of the you know,like when people would come and
visit the home, it's back tokind of what it was, because
there's probably not the valueto, you know, pay for a longer

(58:33):
term hire of that stuff, Whereasthere would be kind of, I guess
, a price point where it becomesimportant to have a really good
property stylist, because ifyou don't match what goes into
the home with the level of thehouse, you can actually bring it
down.
There's a danger there that ifyou pay too little for a
property stylist and you'retrying to sell a high-end

(58:55):
property, you make it lookcheaper.
So, it's really important, right?

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Oh my gosh, you make such a good point so important
and also I feel like it's reallysad that somebody makes their
house look good as they're ontheir way out.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, I know when you move in.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
It should be a property stylist that when you
move in, that's when you want to.
That's your interior stylist.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Because the intent is different.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
It is, it is, it is yeah.
So I guess we've covered a lot,and I suppose there's so many
other careers that revolvearound interior design.
You know, colour consultant,you could be an educator, yes.
Writer Salesperson.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Or even a content creator yeah, working in those
retail showrooms, yep, oh, oreven a content creator showrooms
yep, oh, you're a contentcreator that specializes in
interiors and lifestyle.
I can think of you a few ofthose same.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Yeah, and I don't think, you know, we've covered
everything.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
And again, these are my points of view, that you're
coming at us come at us all ofyou design professionals and
tell us how wrong we are withour descriptions.
We expect to get some thingswrong.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Exactly, and that's okay, Like yeah, I'm just yeah
curious to know, and I supposeit's regional as well.
You know we're talking fromMelbourne, Australia.
That's true, you know, I workedin the UK for a bit and it was
so different there and I get thefeeling it's different in North
America as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I feel like they.
You know when we talked aboutbefore that whole interior
design versus interior decoratorand you know when we
potentially look down our nose abit at it.
I've always thought that in theUK and in America and North
America that decorators werelike really highly valued and

(01:00:49):
the word decorator was quiterespected and you didn't even
hear the word designer as much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
I don't think like it was all about coming in and
decorating the house, like Imean, I've obviously taken this
probably mostly from movies, butyou know well, I mean, just
from my experience in the UK,the decorators there were so
good at what they did and theydidn't touch CAD.
They didn't touch any of that,they just did not just, but they

(01:01:14):
did decoration.
So I feel like that was enough,whereas, you know, in Australia
, you know, we have our interiordesigner decoration diploma,
which does touch on colourfabrics, but the degree it's
very architectural.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I feel that's where you sort of really got that
snobbery kind of coming throughof anything that was a bit
decoratory.
I was really looked down uponand I was like, well, I actually
don't want to be an architect,I want to be an interior
designer.
I want to design from theinside out.
That's really important.
The things that you touch, howyou interact with finishes and

(01:01:50):
the space, like how it makes youfeel Like.
For me that's really important,yeah definitely.
But it was very yeah, and thatdecoration is part of that.
Definitely you get that kind offeeling.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
It's a huge part of it, I think, I think.
I think all of theseprofessions add to an amazing
project and, um, I think thesooner you realize, when you're
in um the design industry, howvalued all of these different
things are and and how they canall come together so well to
create sort of.

(01:02:22):
I don know a better projectthan when there's just one
professional working on it.
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Well, I think that we have explored all of those in a
bit of detail.
We've talked for over an hour.
I don't think we'll be thislong for all of our podcast
episodes, but I feel like thiswas an important one to just
kind of.
This is how we see it, andwe've got a whole lot of guests
lined up as well, so I reallyhope that you enjoyed the

(01:02:53):
episode if you stayed for thislong.
Thank you, thank you forlistening.
Thanks for sticking around.
Yeah, and yeah, we'll lookforward to catching up next.
Yes, speak to you soon.
Cool, see you, bree Bye.
So thank you, guys forlistening in.
And just a quick reminder ifyou would like some help with

(01:03:15):
the interiors for your own home,I can help you in a course
called the Style StudiesEssentials.
Or, for designers out there,come into the Design Society for
business and marketing and allof the things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Yeah, and in the same show notes you'll find a link
to sign up for mysoon-to-be-released furniture
collections, pre-selectedfurniture collections and cool
trend information, and then, inthe future, some short courses
on styling and trends as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
So good Bree.
We've got the utmost respectfor the Wurundjeri people of the
Kulin Nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the

(01:04:05):
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.