Designer Revealed: Bree Banfield's Career Path & Creative Process

Pull up a chair as Bree Banfield candidly shares her remarkable journey through the world of interior design in this revealing episode of Design Anatomy. From rearranging her childhood bedroom to becoming a respected designer, stylist, and trend forecaster, Bree's story is equal parts inspiration and practical wisdom.

With refreshing honesty, Bree recounts her early determination to enter the design world, her nail-biting wait for acceptance into design school, and the valuable lessons learned working under both supportive mentors and challenging personalities. Her career took an unexpected turn when she left interior design to work for a carpet company – a risk that ultimately expanded her horizons into event coordination, colour design, and trend forecasting alongside renowned Australian forecaster Barbara Marshall.

Creativity flows through every aspect of Bree's approach to design. She reminisces about treasured trend books with their tactile samples, and explains how she finds inspiration everywhere – from international travel and fashion to the colour combination on a passing truck. Yet perhaps most enlightening is her candid discussion of business challenges, particularly financial management. "If you go off and have fun with all the good stuff," she warns, "one day all of the other stuff catches up with you and that's the worst feeling ever."

Reflecting on how social media has transformed the industry, Bree offers thoughtful advice for emerging designers while sharing her aspirations to create a furniture line and design her own living space. Above all, she hopes her work evokes happiness, interest, and curiosity – qualities she believes enrich not just spaces, but lives. "Curious people have way more empathy, they love harder, they're better friends," she muses, perfectly capturing the philosophy that makes her design approach so distinctively joyful.

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.

Bookings now open - Book now

Join Lauren online for a workshop to help break down the Design steps to run your project & business a little smoother with the Design Process MasterClass, opening 15th October!

For more info see below

The Design Process MasterClass ONLINE

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design
podcast hosted by friends andfellow designers, me, Bree
Banfield and me, Lauren Li, withsome amazing guest appearances
along the way.
We're here to break downeverything from current trends
to timeless style, with a sharedpassion for joyful,
colour-filled and lived-inspaces.
We're excited to share ourinsights and inspiration with

(00:24):
you.
So, lauren, what's happeningwith you at the moment?
Have you got anything amazinggoing on that we all need to
know about?
Well, that's so funny that youhappen to ask, because I do.
This one is for the interiordesigners exactly.
Um, it's about the designprocess.
So if you want to figure outhow to stop like endless

(00:46):
revisions, if you want toincrease the profitability
working more efficiently andjust like get it all figured out
, we're spending a day togetherone day in sydney, one day in
melbourne.
We're going to have to be inbeautiful surrounds, we're going
to have delicious food andgetting in a room of interior
designers is so cool like-mindedpeople.

(01:07):
That's inspiring just in itself.
Stories, it's so great, youknow?
Um, there I want to create thatenvironment where we all feel
like we can share ourexperiences, this.
We can learn so much from eachother.
So if that is something you'reinterested in.
There's a link in the shownotes or just Instagram message
me or something.
What about you, bree?

(01:27):
It'll be so fun.
Yeah, I'm the same.
Things are going on thatnewsletter that was supposed to
be out this week.
I promise it's nearly there,but we do have some really cool
stuff that's going to comethrough.
A lot of it's trend-based I'mdoing like a colour of the month
oh, we do have some really coolstuff that's going to come

(01:49):
through.
A lot of it's trend-based I'mdoing like a colour of the month
.
Oh, I love that.
It's fun.
Which I'm calling my chromaticcrush.
That's what it's going to becalled.
I love it.
So do sign up for thenewsletter.
It is coming and I'll go ravingon about it on socials this
week as well and try and hustlesome more subscribers.
Good stuff to share, cool.
And we have a very special guest.
Yes, who's our special guest?

(02:15):
Lauren?
Oh, my God, I have been fastingto ask this special guest all
these questions.
It's me.
It's me, it's you.
It's Bree.
We thought it would be funbecause we haven't done that
really, have we?
We've talked about all of thesethings, but we haven't really
talked about our own journey.

(02:36):
I know it's such an overusedterm, so we thought this would
be fun.
It's true, isn't it?
Yeah, so I'll go first and thenI'm going to interview Lauren.
So at least, if you don't knowa lot about us which I assume
there are people listening whodon't then this is your
opportunity to hear all about us, I guess.
Yeah, so good, I think it mightbe good.

(02:59):
To start with, I guess, yourcareer.
Did you have a kind of momentwhere you were like, yep,
interior design, that's for me Iremember like a specific moment
.
But if I look back at childhood, it was all about, you know,
rearranging furniture andpainting things.
And interior design started inmy bedroom when I was probably

(03:22):
in primary school.
Oh, cute, so I can kind of see.
I mean, I had lots of creativeendeavours.
I probably thought I was goingto be a fashion designer more
than anything else, and I wouldspend hours and hours drawing
outfits and coming up with ideas.
And then I wanted to be anactor and then I thought
probably aren't quite goodenough, and then I thought I'll

(03:43):
be a director.
And then I kind of went yes, Iwas all about going to NIDA, and
so this was sort of probablyyear 11.
I'm like, okay, this is whatI'm going to do.
I'm going to move to Sydney.
I want to be in that world.
I'm pretty if you know mepersonally, I'm pretty obsessed
with screen.
You are, you love film, Ireally do and so I kind of

(04:06):
wanted to be in that, in thatworld.
And then I think I started tothink about knowing that I also
loved interiors, started tothink about and fashion.
I was like, maybe it's setdesign and and creating those
worlds which I would have lovedto have done.
And I can't remember what thetipping point was of no, I'm not
going to do set design.
Obviously, I made a decision atsome point.

(04:27):
Maybe it was just that I gotinto interior design, who knows?
But I didn't apply for reallyanything else.
So I was a bit.
I remember I think I didn't getin on the first round and I was
pretty devastated and I waslike shit, I don't know.
I just expected that was what Iwould be doing.
I don't know what I'm going todo.

(04:48):
And I remember going tointerviews in stores.
I was going to an interview atLaura Ashley in Melbourne
Central.
Yes, I remember that store andI wore my very pretty, like
pastel outfit to try and fitinto the Laura Ashley line
Little house on the prairie, butI wasn't very.
I was pretty quiet back then,so that was really putting

(05:10):
myself out of my comfort zone.
But I knew I needed to still bekind of interior adjacent and I
was thinking, oh, I have towork for a year and then I'll
try and sort of, I guess, goagain.
And then I got in on the secondround and I was very relieved
because I just didn't reallyhave a plan.
It's so different then to howit is now right, just getting

(05:31):
into a course.
It really meant a lot just toget into an interior design
course.
That's true, isn't it?
And I feel like I think thesedays you'd go no, you can't put
all your eggs in one basket.
You need to have backup uponbackup of what you plan to do,
and no one ever really told meto do that.
So I didn't, I don't know and Ido and if you know again, if you

(05:54):
know me, this sounds a littlebit.
I'm trying to say this withoutsounding kind of brattish, but I
usually work it out.
If there's something I reallywant to do or something that I
really want to happen, I usuallymake it happen.
So I kind of have this weird Idon't feel like it doesn't sound
a bit like you're spoiled, Iget what I want, like I just

(06:16):
feel like I don't know whythat's happened in my life, but
most of the time obviously notall the time and there's
definitely been disappointmentsand things that didn't go maybe
how I planned, but most of thetime obviously not all the time
and there's definitely beendisappointments and things that
didn't go maybe how I planned,but most of the time I'm pretty
much like confused when itdoesn't work out.
But I don't think you shouldapologize for that.
I think that you know,sometimes you do have to just

(06:39):
gently push just to do what youwant to do.
I think that's you know.
I don't know if it's a femalething as well, I don't know like
yeah, maybe it is.
I don't feel like thisconversation before yeah, they'd
be just like.
I know I make it happen, Ibelong here, make it happen and
I'm like, oh, do I sound likeI'm spoiled?
No, not at all.

(07:01):
I mean, obviously you have atalent, like a huge talent for
interiors and you know, backback in the day you would
interview for interior designand there were limited spots per
year and hundreds, maybe eventhousands of people would apply.
So it was really difficult toget into those courses.
I remember having to there'slike an entry exam or something

(07:23):
back then and there was amassive room full of people
doing this exam and I was like,oh my God, I'm like and I was
just talking about how bad I amat tests and exams and stuff
like that and I was like, oh,and this was before you even got
to the like there was levelsthat you had to go through to
get to kind of like the finaloffer.
And I just remember doing it,going oh my God, like it was

(07:46):
kind of stuff like I guess,estimating things, and I guess I
was trying to like work outwhether you kind of understood
scale and I don't know Like it'skind of practical.
But I just remember going, ohGod, I've got no hope, I'm going
to have to sit a frigging testto do it because it's just not
my, it is not in my skill set,unless I just know it like off

(08:07):
the you know completely.
Even then I feel like you getthat pressure feeling and you
kind of I get like this kind ofhorrible, sick, not in side.
That just makes me kind offreeze up and then, like the
time, you know like, and you'vegot 30 minutes, and then I just
like my brain just stops, it'slike.
It's like like nope, sorry, Idon't have the answers anymore.

(08:31):
Did you have any early mentorsor influences?
Um, I guess, at work once Istarted work.
So I was really fortunate toget like a I guess kind of like
an internship you would call it.
We didn't really call it thatat the time.
It might have been I.
We had to do.
We had to try and find like amentor or a firm that would sort
of take you on for a period oftime and I think they still do

(08:53):
mentor ships with a lot of thecourses so that you can just
like shadow people and learn.
But mine was like a proper jobwhere they kept me on.
I think maybe it was like youagreed to a term or something
and you did like a day there, aweek or something.
I can't remember the exactdetails and I was really
fortunate that they said, no, wewant you to keep working.
It was only a really small firm, so I stayed there for a few

(09:17):
years and I definitely had somegreat people that I worked with
there that were definitelyamazing mentors, like not just
in, I guess more on the businessside of things and how to deal
with people, how to have clientmeetings, how to deal with our
bosses, what food to buy to getyou through the long nights of

(09:40):
stone pack Smarties was my thing.
I used to get a pack of Smarties.
I didn't have a mentor but Ihad smarties that got me through
.
It was like you know, you knewyou had like after lunch, like
oh god, this afternoon's goingto be long, like into the
evening gonna be working back tofinish something and I'm like,
okay, we need, we need the junkfood and smarties was my on my
desk thing of just like havingsmarty after smarty feeding.

(10:03):
Like didn't realize I had ADHDback then, so clearly I needed
the dopamine.
I'm like sugar hit, sugar hit.
Then suddenly you're looking atthis interior you've designed
and it's purple, pink, yellow,really colorful.
Oh my god, this is whathappened.
It was the smarties.
It's so cute.
Oh, how great, like early inyour career, to have that

(10:25):
experience of even being inclient meetings and things,
because honestly, it's prettyhard to get that experience.
It is.
It's funny that when I where Iwent after that they were very.
It was still another small firmbut they had two male bosses,
managers, and I was the only oneworking on interiors and and

(10:46):
they would sort of do more ofthe like top level stuff.
They might do a little bit ofthe interior, but they were more
client facing, but they hardlyever took me to a meeting.
So I went from where I workedfirst.
They would take me to meetingsall the time, so I was pretty
good at sitting back.
Or you learn to sit back andwatch but then jump in.
Well, I'm a blurt.
I would always jump in when Ifelt like I needed to get

(11:07):
something across the line, butyou sort of learn to work out
when is a good time to do thatand when isn't.
But I hated the next firm whereI just felt like I would not get
to see the reaction of theclient too, because I think it's
kind of an important intuitionwhen you're dealing with people.
They don't always say whatthey're thinking, but the
reaction they have to things youcan often read between the

(11:29):
lines and know what to say tothem, to either get them over
the line or explain something tothem, whereas when you're not
there you're relying on someoneelse's feedback.
You don't really know how itwent.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh, a hundred percent like itis.
It's the body language that youcan read says so much more,
because people don't put intowords what they're really
thinking, but then you'regetting a secondhand brief as

(11:53):
well, like this is what happened, and now you have to do the
tasks to implement it.
It's really confusing and Ididn't always trust them.
What I did learn with thatsecond job was that the two
managers one was just like thislovely big kind of teddy bear of
a guy and the other one wassuper egotistical and I learnt

(12:13):
with him how to get my waywithout getting my way, if that
makes any sense.
So I'd present something to himand go okay, I've resolved this
reception area, blah, blah,blah blah, it's all commercial
work and he'd be like hmm, yeah,I don't know.
Okay, yeah, it looks good, Ithink we need to do this, this
and this, and he'd like makechanges.

(12:33):
But he'd keep going all the wayback around to where it started
and then say it was his.
I think that works better, brie, don't you?
And at first I'd be like no,what are you talking about?
That's exactly what I did andI'd argue with him and he'd get
really like, what do you know?
And then I realized all I hadto do is go oh, that's great,
excellent.
What a good idea, just in case.

(12:54):
That's such a good resolveThank you so much for your help.
And it was like I knew he'djust go oh, of course, great,
like.
And so I always got what Iwanted it.
Just he just thought he wasgetting what he wanted.
Oh, isn't it interesting, allthose lessons that you learn
like.
It's not what you think you'regoing to learn in an interior

(13:15):
design.
True, that's so true, I mean we, I think probably one of the
biggest things you don't know,particularly if you don't have a
personality.
Some people are really great atdealing with people, right?
A lot of people aren't, andthat doesn't mean they might be
amazing interior designers.
But we really do have to beable to deal with people,
whether that's in a job whereyou've got a direct rapport, or

(13:36):
whether you're dealing with theclient directly, even dealing
with suppliers, builders, trades.
If you're rubbing everyone upthe wrong way or you're not
communicating properly, it'sjust, you're never going to get
a good result, no matter howgreat a designer you are.
So dealing with people isprobably the biggest lesson I
think I learned in my early daysof working.
For sure, yeah, what's thebiggest risk you've taken in

(13:56):
your career and did it pay off?
It's probably two points.
One was leaving interior designto go and work as a.
Yeah, when I went to work forback then, it was in Victor
Carpets, so I was looking foranother.
This was the firm that I wasjust talking about.
I wanted to leave, I was readyto do something different and I
needed to take a step up orwhatever it was, and just at

(14:18):
that point in time, there wasn'treally a lot of around in terms
of work, like jobs.
I went for a few jobs and Ijust got bad vibes from a lot of
the firms.
The pay was terrible.
At the time, I think I wasbuilding a house and I was like
I don't know what.
I don't want to stay here.
I was a bit unhappy by thatpoint and I was talking to one

(14:39):
of the reps that called on meand she's like why don't you do
my job'm leaving?
I said what do you mean?
Do your job?
She goes like you know, it's agreat wage and she's saying how
much she got paid, which was alot more than what I got paid.
You got a car, you got bonusesand you just dealt with interior
designers and specifiers allthe time and was so you were
sort of interior adjacent, Isuppose.

(15:01):
So the lure of that, andbecause I knew her, she just put
me forward and I just got thejob, like I didn't even really
have to do much to get it, otherthan talk to someone.
I think I did one interview andthey just sort of trusted that
she knew who I was and I thinkthey liked that.
Obviously I was a designer aswell and then I knew how to talk
to other designers and so Ileft design and went and did

(15:22):
that and I guess it did pay off,because I wouldn't be where I
am now in terms of experiencehad I not done that.
I did that for I want to saymaybe two years before they
recognized that I had all theseother skills and then slowly I
was doing more marketing relatedthings, things, yes.

(15:47):
So I did that for two years.
I reckon it was about two yearsI'm kind of guessing at this
point.
It might've even been lessbefore I started to work on
their events.
So they would do events tolaunch products and I started I
don't know somehow I was workingon that designing the display.
Then I sort of started tomanage the events so I basically
became I think my title in theend was that I kind of moved out
manage the events.
So I basically became I thinkmy title in the end was there I
kind of moved out of theconsultant role because I was

(16:09):
taking on more of the otherstuff and I ended up being like
color designer and eventcoordinator.
I don't know, it was someridiculously.
I had to make up a titlebecause it wasn't really a job.
That looked like what I didbecause I wore quite a few
different hats and I think Ialways sort of have.
I loved that because I had thesort of design element.
I loved production, which isstill what I do with shoots and

(16:32):
to an extent it's projectmanagement right.
So you know, planning fromstart to finish an event, making
sure products are ready to go,working with trades to create
the displays we did lot of backthen it was design x, so we did
big design x stand.
So I got to like be reallycreative and design loads, yeah,
and then I also worked on theproduct.
So that's when I started to doum.

(16:54):
I started in the commercialstuff first, working on the
color ranges and designs for thecarpet um, and that's how I
ended up doing trend forecastingand I had an amazing mentor
then, Barbara Marshall who's theamazing Australian trend
forecaster, because there's nota lot of us and spent a lot of
time with her.
I traveled overseas, I got togo to trade shows.
I learned how to, I guess,decipher trends into Australian

(17:18):
versions of what was happeningand how.
Back then we had to keep stock.
So it's not like paint WithJewel Arts, you know, we could
really come up with the sky'sthe limit, other than not having
the colour available becausethere's no stock to be kept.
I mean it's still an investmentin the story that you're
telling.
But back then I had to make acall on colours that they were
going to make that colour andkeep it in stock.

(17:40):
So when it didn't sell, it waskind of my fault.
That is a bit, not entirely.
No, that is, and you do need tolegitimately forecast.
What are people going to buy?
Not this year, not next year?
Yeah, like, how far in advancewould they need to with carpet?
We would be probably a goodyear ahead, but still looking

(18:01):
probably.
So it was 12 to 24 months,particularly in development.
So if it was something new youhad to spend time to develop.
I guess the design, the fiber,what it looks like, and then the
color ranges would be sort oflike the end of that.
And I worked with, like we do,a lot of great community
discussions with other trendforecasters in other industries

(18:23):
and people like automotive Ithink is the longest lead.
So so automotive would be like10 years.
So they had to try and predictin 10 years.
And it's not just color,obviously.
We're talking about moreoverall lifestyle trends and how
that then affects design andwhat would be needed and why,
like there's a whole kind ofrationale behind it.
We don't just kind of goeveryone's gonna love red.

(18:44):
Um, there has to be like areason why, especially if you're
predicting something 10 yearsahead because when you're in
automotive that's when theystart developing it takes them
that long.
It's probably shorter now, butback then everything was longer.
We didn't have I couldn't justjump on the internet and look
stuff up.
We had like a little bit ofthat, but it was all big books,
trend forecasting books.
I miss those.

(19:04):
They're so beautiful.
Oh, they would have been veryexpensive.
Wow, that was yarn, dyed yarns,like.
So you'd open up these booksand they have beautiful collage
photography.
You'd, um, you know, be drawingon what other designers were
doing across the world that havelike yarns and fabrics and
really material finishes.
Yeah, I've still got a couple ofbooks floating around, too

(19:25):
beautiful to throw away.
They're kind of a bit rare nowbecause they do still exist.
But they're probably even moreexpensive because there's less
of the made, so there arethousands of dollars to buy.
So when you're I'd say probablyif you're a buyer for a big
group like Meyer or David Jonesor something like that, you'd
probably still invest inseasonal, proper trend books

(19:45):
because they really tell you thestory and, I guess, talk about
more tactile elements than youcan kind of get when you're
online.
But yeah, those fun days, sointeresting.
So it would be interesting toknow a bit more about your
creative process.
We're talking about those trendbooks.
Where do you go now forinspiration?
Well, really fortunate, totravel.

(20:06):
That's probably one of mybiggest things and you know,
obviously we talk about Milanquite a bit, but it's not just
Milan, it's any kind of travelthe architecture, the way people
live, the food.
I love fashion so I'm alwayslooking at that.
I think fashion and interiorshave always been linked.
It just depends on what comesfirst some of the time.

(20:26):
We used to use fashion a lotback in the old days, like I'd
wait for those massive.
Do you remember?
I don't know if you ever sawlike because there were
specialty magazines.
You often had to order them andgo to the newsagents to pick up
your order.
But so like it's Milan DesignWeek this week or next week for
fashion, and you wouldn't beable to see.
We didn't have social media.

(20:48):
We couldn't jump on stylecom orI think it's Vogue now that's
taken over stylecom and see allthe runway.
We had to wait for thephotography to go into a massive
magazine and be printed and itwould be like this thick, so I'd
say like eight centimeters atleast.
Oh my God, big heavy Best,though say like eight
centimeters at least, big heavybest.
Though.

(21:08):
I love books and I lovemagazines.
So it's like even just thinkingabout it now I can, I know I'm
experiencing the feeling, theexcitement, and then you just
devour it and yeah, and in theend, even though you pay from a
lot for these.
They weren't as expensive asthe trend books but you'd have
to just rip out your pages andactually physically create mood
boards and what you thought thedirections were going to be.
But you had to watch that verycarefully.
Fashion was a huge influence oninteriors.

(21:30):
You know what I feel sad?
I feel sad that the youngergeneration can't tear out, pin
up Like anyway, sorry, keepgoing.
It is a cool thing, right, I dolove that still, yes, the most
fun I have seen, I think a lotof firms and I've been thinking
about this.
I want to look into it.
You know, obviously everything Ido is digital mood boards.
Now, I rarely do, obviously,materials, but I have them in a

(21:53):
tray.
But I have seen a lot of peoplein meetings have printouts of
their kind of inspiration juston, like kind of little A5, kind
of cards, like key things.
I think I'd like to do a bitmore of that.
Oh same Like a physicalprintout, because I have some
projects.
If it sort of feels a bitspecial, yeah, I have some
projects like that.
I love that I sort of refer to.
But I have, like you know,almost like a postcard that you

(22:16):
pick up from the gallery orsomething like that.
I have some, you know, artworksor imagery that I really love.
That wouldn't that be nice?
Just to have a little card.
I'm sure people would be ableto tell us if you're listening.
Jump on, jump into our dms oninsta and tell us if you do that
, because I there must be aservice that does it.
Maybe an online where you canjust upload stuff and it prints

(22:36):
out, and as long as it's foryour own personal use, I think
that's okay.
What's that something pig?
What's that online thing?
I don't know that one somethingpig.
What's that online thing?
Oh, I don't know that oneSomething pig.
We need to go.
Sorry, then you got half ofthat right, oh, it's a process.
So what would make myinspiration now?
So travel lots of online, likeI mean, we're all chronically
online, right, but stillmagazines.

(22:58):
However, I don't also don't buya lot of magazines anymore.
I'll buy them occasionally.
I get them all on my Inzino.
It's just easier for me to saveimages and catalogue them and
keep that inspiration on handthan a magazine.
And because I treasure themagazines now I actually really
struggle with ripping out pages.
Oh, I never could rip.

(23:19):
I just yeah, you know, that'swhat colour photocopies were for
back in the day.
That's right Not to rip up themagazines.
That was so expensive as wellto get a colour photocopy, I
know, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, I think it probablystill is, yeah, so I guess that
art and anything like I lovelocal design.
I think Australian has amazingdesigners, and I'm talking

(23:42):
across the board, like fabrics,lighting, industrial, you know,
ceramics, even Like we've justgot a great creative industry
and I take a lot of inspirationfrom that and what they're doing
and how they approach things,or you know, that's always great
, isn't it, to see something new, absolutely Like.
That sparks, whatever it is.
But also I always get random.
I could just be driving in thecar and see the back of a truck

(24:06):
that has like a yellow stickerand then the truck's blue, I
don't know, and then go, oh,that's a great color combination
, or or it's a shape.
I feel like when I'm walkingand I'm not trying to resolve a
design, that's when somethingwill just like I'll see
something completely unrelatedand I'll go, oh, that's what I
should do.
It should be be like this, likejust some detail or whatever, I
don't know I guess, always,always thinking about that too,

(24:29):
and it is.
It's just it's when you, whenyou're, when it's on your radar.
I mean, as you say, it'samazing to travel and everything
, but you know, we can look toAustralian design and you can
look, you can see inspirationeverywhere.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, so do you have any designrules that you follow and like
to break at the same time?
I should add to that Sorry, Iknew, because I'll come back to

(24:50):
you it's obviously movies.
I already said that.
But, like set design in moviesor fashion costume, Is there a
particular movie?
Oh, yes, was there a moviegrowing up or something?
Oh, growing up, I don't know.
I watched a lot of musicals.
I'll give a picture show.
I was thinking about how I wastalking to someone about this,
how so much of that just wentover my head.

(25:11):
We watched that all the time,like when I was very young.
Video, easy, I just knew allthe songs.
Yeah, little Shop of Horrorsremember when that came out?
Yeah, I'm sorry I'm digressing,but even though I feel like
those quite stylized movies arealways amazing because they had
things that you would like.
So, okay, you could just watcha normal drama or comedy and
it's just like I would still payattention to what their homes

(25:34):
were and how they lived and allof that stuff, like Friends,
friends apartment.
I remember myself and my friendAsha were obsessed with that.
We'd be like remember this vase, like we would remember the
details in the background ofwhat was on the shelves and
stuff like that.
But yeah, like really kind ofover-stylized movies is probably
what I got a lot of inspirationfor, because there would be
things that you maybe justdidn't see in the everyday, or

(25:56):
combinations of materials orlike really kind of I don't know
.
I guess it was a bit more likeproper set design rather than
just, I guess, normal spaces.
But yeah, I mean there's somany, so many.
I know what a question.
Yeah, that's a whole otherepisode.
I do really think about thatone a little bit.
It's like when someone goeswhat's your favorite song and

(26:18):
I'm like, uh, there's like Ican't think of one right now the
problem.
So it's like trying to like gothrough my head, going like,
well, which one?
I don't want to like leave oneout, I'm sorry, so does that?
Back to the other question doyou have like a design rule that
you follow, like is there athread, some consistent thing,
or not?
Really, I mean I, I know Iguess there's some inherent ones

(26:40):
.
I tend to be a rule breaker aswell.
I feel like I like I like rules, so I like rules and structure.
I tend to be a rule breaker aswell.
I feel like I like rules, so Ilike rules and structure.
I like to have them, I like tohave them around me and they
help me function better.
But I also can't wait to breakthem, like I just always come
back but like I like to kind ofgo.
What would happen if I just dothis?
And I'm very impulsive, so Ihave impulse issues, so I'm
likely to go oh, I think this isa good idea and just do it

(27:03):
Intuitive?
Yeah, I don't know.
Like an actual rule, I thinkscale stuff so let's say, the
size of a rug with a like thatstuff I think are rules that
might be fun to sort of bend abit.
But there's definitelysomething not right about, you
know, a postcard or a stamp sizerug in a really big living room

(27:26):
.
Unless you're trying toactually make it into some sort
of statement, it never workswell, right?
So I think those kinds ofthings I guess you know bench
heights and ergonomics they'reall important rules, probably
not to completely break For areason.
Yeah, I've got one more questionabout your creative process.
If you could design in any cityin the world, where would it be

(27:46):
?
Probably Milan, that would beamazing.
An apartment or something.
I love Milanese spaces.
Yeah, there's something aboutthem that I'm very drawn to.
I love just even the smallapartment living.
I can't even quite put my.
I think there's somethingobviously to be said with
history of places.
I can't even quite put my.
I think there's somethingobviously to be said with
history of places.
So there's just kind of likethis, layers of history and

(28:08):
things that you automaticallyfeel when you walk into a space,
even if it's not a fullyresolved space, it's already
there, so it already hascharacter that you just kind of
build on.
And I guess I say Milan becauseobviously it has the big part
of, I don't know, my life.
Yeah, I spend a bit of timethere and I kind of love the
city and it's not.
It's funny because people willsay to me I'm going to Italy and

(28:30):
like I'm going to go to Milanand I'm like, well, when you're
not there during Design Week, itis very different.
It's not like a touristy, it'snot like Paris or London or Rome
or Venice.
It's kind of a working city andI think it's a lot like
Melbourne in that way and Ithink maybe that's why it feels
like a second home to me, likeit's a bit it was very familiar.
I remember the first time Iwent I kept going why does it

(28:52):
feel like Melbourne?
Why does this feel likeMelbourne Like?
And it's not, but there wasjust things about it that just
sort of felt like the mood orthe I don't know this underlying
vibe.
It's just cool.
I can be challenged on that.
It is very cool and I lovemelbourne.
I really love melbourne, andmore and more trying too hard.
It's not on for show.
Yes, yeah, they don't care,they don't care about the
tourists.
I want probably do for a littlebit for the money, but still,

(29:14):
it's not.
It's a yeah, and it's a littlebit grungy, right, I find
melbourne to be a bit grungy too.
It's not perfect no, there areperfect moments, but it's a.
It's like a.
It's a beautiful city, but notin that perfect, beautiful city
kind of way, like a palace.
Yeah, pull out your phone everyfive seconds and take a photo.
Well, I do, well, we do.

(29:35):
Yes, yeah, I think there's lotsof ordinary moments.
Yeah, there's um differentpockets, different fields and
everything.
Yeah, I wasn't surprised whenyou said that that's a bit
predictable.
No, for good reason, to be fair, I haven't seen the questions.
We're just, we're off the cuff,so that's off.
These are the very off the cuffanswers.

(29:55):
Yes, but I might change if Iknew what was coming up.
Yeah, that's all right, off thecuff is perfect.
What if you talk about businessand stuff for a minute?
What's the hardest lessonyou've learned?
Running your business Finances?
Yeah, it's.
You know, it's so funny.
Not funny, but had a play dateyesterday.

(30:15):
You know, with school holidayshere, you had a play date.
Well, yeah, kind of, because themum came over.
I'd never really met her before.
Oh, so you get to know her.
Yeah, she's an accountant and Iwas like I hate to be that
interior designer.
It's such a cliche, such astereotype, but I don't want to
put my head in the finances allthe time.

(30:36):
I just want to put my head inthe sand and let's talk about
fabric, let's talk about and itis a hard lesson, right, I think
it's so for me.
I think I mean I'm probablyalways going to be someone who
struggles with the mundane stuff, and I can see it's not
everyone thinks that's mundane.
People love it, right?
I like it when I can like.
I like creating a spreadsheetand having an idea about how I
want to do it.
I'm not good at theimplementation of that, I'm good

(30:58):
at the idea part of it and Ilike to like do a budget, like I
love a budget, a good budget,and I, you know, obviously this
is what we have to do in aproject, right?
I'm actually really good atthat.
I can, I can, stick to a budget.
I've done lots of big projectsfor brands, even, you know,
photography, event, like.
I just went through all of that.
You have a budget.
You don't have an infiniteamount of money, so I'm quite
capable of running finances.

(31:20):
But when it comes to myself, Ijust struggle with it, and I
think my biggest advice toanybody who was starting a
business is to, before you eventhink about, like, what the
business name is going to be andwhat your logo is and you cut
all any of that is, just havelike all of that base set up,
basically, have a meeting withan accountant and you might not

(31:41):
need a bookkeeper straight away,but just have that.
Hey, I'm setting up a business,this is what I want to do, this
is what I think I'm going torun, have some ideas about what
you think you're going to earn.
I have no.
Like, my business strategy hasnever has been like a zero.
I don't really have one I'm.
I've got a better one now 50years down the track, but, um, I

(32:03):
never really.
I just just kind of.
I'm a bit of, as I just said,I'm quite impulsive.
I'll do things a little bit ona whim.
I mean, I have some nous behindit.
But I think setting up any kindof business, just do all of
that.
First, know what your outcomes,you think they should be, and
then you've also got somethingto measure it by.

(32:23):
Like you know six months in.
Or you can kind of go look, Iexpected to not make any money
and this is where I thought Iwould be.
Or you might be like feelingreally disheartened six months
in and going, oh my God, I'mgetting nowhere.
But that's probably whereyou're supposed to be.
But if you don't know and havea plan, then you've got nothing
to kind of measure that against.
And also, I think it's good tohave goals and things to aim for

(32:46):
and a bit of accountability.
I always do well withaccountability.
Otherwise I'm off the fairiesdoing whatever.
So I think that it's fun withthe fairies.
I love the fairies, they're myfavourite.
Yeah, I think the biggest, thebiggest um scary learning thing
for me was finances and and andthen coming out of um, you know,

(33:09):
being married for a long timeand, uh, without getting into
that, not really having controlover any of those things, and
then having it all in my control, is exciting but also really
scary because it all lands withme.
But there's something reallyempowering about that too.
So I think if you do it rightfrom the beginning, set yourself

(33:30):
up properly, even if you haveto spend the money on the good
advice to have yourself set upjust so that then you can go off
and just be yourself and buildit from there.
But if you have all of that setup ready to go and you are, you
know tracking your best andyour tax and all of that set up
ready to go and you are, youknow tracking your best and your
tax and all of the stuff thatyou need to do, having some
goals, having some structurethen you set yourself up to

(33:50):
maybe be able to relax a littlebit and actually have fun with
all of the good stuff, becauseall the bases are there, right,
all the structure's there.
Because otherwise, what happens?
If you go off and have fun withall the good stuff, one day all
of the other stuff catches upwith you and that's the worst

(34:12):
feeling ever.
So, yeah, well, it just meansif we can't figure out the
finite stuff, that means wecan't do our work.
Yeah, yep, and you know, like,as I said, if you're good at
running projects, so you can doit.
It's just a matter of makingsure that you know you don't
overlook that.
Yes, and you know you are doingit and you have been doing it.
So, yay, yay, yeah, yeah, butthank you for sharing that

(34:32):
because I think that's a reallyrelatable lesson in business.
So how do you balance thatcreative side with the business
side?
I actually really like workingon the business.
I don't like the admin-y,boring stuff, but it's fun to
kind of be.
I quite enjoy and because Iguess I've been in marketing

(34:55):
roles.
I don't have a marketingdiploma or anything like that,
but I've been around a lot ofmarketing, working with inside
brands and then for brands, so Ikind of love that side of it.
I love the strategy side ofthat.
I'm very bad at implementingthings, as I said, like I have
great strategies, great ideasand then I go off and just like

(35:18):
do my day-to-day working going.
Actually I was going to do thisand it falls to the wayside, so
that hence the structure isrequired it me to actually
follow through.
But I guess I try and do in intheory.
I try and do like one day aweek where it's paying invoices,
making paying bills, creatinginvoices, checking on the

(35:41):
finances, I don't know, doingthe social media captions.
It doesn't always work that way, but I think if you can kind of
have a little bit of atimetable of here's a chunk of
time that you have to do thatbusiness stuff, you have to get
it done.
You can't ignore it has to bedone, whether that's a day or
half a day or even just like anhour at the end of the day or an

(36:02):
hour in the morning.
However, whatever works for you, I think you've got to kind of
separate it out a little bit.
Having said that, sometimes you,when you are feeling creative,
it's like yesterday I was doingsome, I was doing proposals
which I actually told you, whichcan be quite draining.
A lot goes into those proposalsand they take a long time to do

(36:23):
because you want it to be right.
You're trying to make sureyou've nailed the brief in terms
of like I basically do like areverse brief back, you analyze
your fee, have you includedeverything?
And I missed like so it's quitea lot.
And then I put it into, youknow, a beautiful presentation
and then that gets sent out.
So that's very hard to stick onthat for a whole day because I
find that quite draining.
Very hard to stick on that fora whole day because I find that

(36:47):
quite draining.
But then I had I'm doing a shootnext week which is actually
just a non-paid shoot, which issort of like a test shoot, which
I don't do all that often.
But I just had this momentwhere I went I know what I want
to do Out of the blue, I'm inthe middle of this, I just had
to divert and then I justcreated I actually smashed out
like three different set designsand mood boards in a fairly
short amount of time.
It could have taken me a day todo and I probably did it in an

(37:10):
hour to two hours because I knewI just had that moment and I
knew exactly what my vision wasand I'd been.
It had been sitting in my headand rolling around for probably,
like maybe even months, becauseit's a test shoot.
You're both kind of like Ican't do it this week, so it's
finally happening.
That is so exciting, yeah.
So you just sort of like you'vegot to do it.
When you do it, yeah, right,and get into that flow.

(37:32):
When the strikes you, yeah,love it.
So is there a part of the jobthat you secretly don't enjoy?
The finances?
Yeah, we've gone through that.
Um, yeah, no, that's no secret.
I sometimes really have to pushmyself out of my comfort zone,
to which it probably soundscompletely ridiculous to like

(37:53):
speak to a trade for the firsttime I've got a job.
I don't know why that's so hardto do.
Sometimes, like just to pick upthe phone and go I've, I'm
working on this project.
Are you interested?
Like I don't know why that partis.
Sometimes I have to work myselfup to speak to someone,
especially if I don't know them,because I actually feel like
that.
But I didn't know that youwould feel like that.

(38:13):
Yeah, no, I do, I definitely do.
And again.
I guess sometimes I'll have thatmoment where I'm like, okay, I
need to do this right nowbecause I can do it and I've got
it's there, the feelings therethat I can pick up the phone,
but I'll procrastinate aboutthat because I'm like, oh God,
yeah, I need to ring about thatand I can't.
It's not really an email.
I love to send a text.
Do you think clients ever feel,yeah, do you think clients ever

(38:35):
feel like that when they callus?
Oh, probably, yeah, it'dprobably be quite daunting, I
guess, wouldn't it?
You don't know what we're goingto be like, or if we're going
to be like that's a terriblebudget, like, oh, I'm not
working on your design, like,right, they might be thinking,
please call us if you'rethinking about it.
Yeah, we won't be mean to you.

(38:57):
No, we won't.
So actually, one more questionabout that.
You know, has the industrychanged in your experience since
when you started?
What aspects have sort ofchanged?
I think the biggest thingthat's changed is how many
people want to leave school likestudy interior design or even
styling, whatever it is.
They've studied in that realmand go straight into their own

(39:19):
business.
That just wasn't, I mean.
I like had ideas that I wantedto do that, but to do it
straight out of school.
I just couldn't imagine doingthat back then.
There's just so much.
I didn't know, I don't.
I actually really I find itfascinating that they have the
confidence A to do it.
I think social media hasprobably created that.
I guess, when I think about it,when social media really had a

(39:41):
huge rise and stylists becamelike a cool thing so I was a
stylist before like I'd saystylist and people would go,
what, what is that like?
What hair stylist?
Yeah, no one really knew whatit was and, um, you know, I was
an interior designer foremost,but then I started to do styling
, and styling was just aboutphotography.
It wasn't like you know.

(40:02):
Now we say stylist and theymight be literally they're a
decorator, but they callthemselves a stylist.
So stylist was always you'reworking on shoots, it might be
editorial for magazines or, um,working on sheets for brands.
You're in a studio or you're insomeone's house or you're
building sets like this is whatI did, yeah, and I spent a lot
of years where that was my mainthing I did.

(40:22):
I did the occasional interiordesign project, but it was all
styling, yeah.
And then, with social media itbecame kind of this coveted job
right.
So I remember the first time Iworked with a producer who had
hired me on a job and they weretelling me that with the rise of

(40:43):
social media and the firstinfluencers so the first
influencers that came out in theinterior world, and if you were
a producer or a brand and yousaw this person and they were
having great engagement andstarting to get followers, that
was when it became a thing like,oh, they're really popular,
look.
Oh, they're doing beautifulwork.
So they'd reach out to them.
Now these people have neverworked on a shoot before.
They've set up a vignette intheir house and made it look

(41:06):
beautiful.
What nobody thought about wasthey never had any kind of time
pressure to do that.
They weren't in a commercialenvironment.
So you'd get the influencerstylist on a commercial shoot
and there's a story that a fewof us know, which is a true
story, where they hired aninfluencer stylist I'll call

(41:27):
them that and they had theirbudget.
So, say, you had like a $500prop budget or something and
they went out and bought like aGeorge Jensen bars or something
and one other thing to style ahouse and turned up to the shoot
and they're like, well, where'sall the stuff?
And they're like, oh, where'sall the stuff?
And I'm like, oh, you only gaveme this much budget and this is
all I could buy.

(41:48):
And we don't.
That's not what we do, right?
I hope that Vaz did a lot ofheavy lifting.
I think he was probably inevery shot.
We'll put it upside down inthis shot.
We'll hang it from the roof inthis shot.
We'll lay it down in the bathhere.
Oh my God, this shot.
We'll lay it down in the bathhere.
Oh my god, yeah, so and thendidn't know how to, you know,

(42:09):
set up a shot and wanted a longtime to set up a shot.
So I think that there was likea time where they were getting a
lot of work and then peoplewent, oh, hang on, this isn't
actually.
They're not the same thing.
You know, commercial stylistswork very hard.
Photographic styling is probablyone of the most stressful jobs
you can do it.
It sounds really glamorous.
I find it so stressful.
It's really stressful.
The pressure of everyone no,not for me.
There's like all thesedifferent levels of pressure you

(42:32):
know not to name.
Probably one of the biggestones financially is I can be on
a big shoot and have literallyhundreds of thousands of dollars
of furniture on a location.
That's all my responsibility.
So, and I know stylistsphotographic stylists who've
given it up literally justbecause one too many things got
damaged not by them necessarily,but on set.

(42:53):
Yeah, someone scratchedsomething or it was delivered,
maybe the delivery people brokeit, but because you loaned it,
you're responsible.
So it is.
It's incredibly stressful andyeah, that was so that.
So I guess back to the originalquestion, because you know I've
digressed, but it is relevant.
That's probably the biggestthing that's changed is the rise

(43:14):
of social media peoplerecognizing that a stylist is
not now they're a decorator.
So when you say styling, evenif you're approaching someone
for a project, you need to makesure you're approaching a
stylist that's done.
Photography work, like it's acompletely different environment
than decorating job, forinstance.
So that's probably the biggestchange.
And then, just like everyonewanting to work for themselves,

(43:36):
the rise of that is huge.
I guess it's a generationalthing too, but I would encourage
you, if you are going out ofschool for the first time, just
work for like a year.
Even the stuff you learnworking for other people, I
think it's invaluable.
I'm not discouraging you fromworking for yourself.
I think there's obviously a lotof pros, but, god, there's a

(43:56):
lot of cons too.
You and I both know that it'sexpensive running your own
business.
It really is.
Yeah, it's hugely expensive.
And it's hugely expensive totry and scale and have people
come and work for you and investtime in them, even on a
freelance level, and they don'talways work out, or you know,
they're always going to learnfrom you and then move on and I

(44:17):
always accept that's what youknow.
I've had some amazingassistants over the years and
they've all got careers in theirown right now and I still talk
to them, we're still friends andall of that.
So that's sort of I guessthat's rewarding as well.
But yeah, it's very stressfuland and yes, probably the
biggest pro is flexibility,especially as parents.

(44:37):
It was probably hugelysignificant when my kids were
younger.
Now they kind of take care ofthemselves, but you've got the
flexibility to work your ownhours.
But then the massive con tothat is you can be working all
the time, like whenever you'renot doing something else, you're
working, or you've got to workbecause you're trying to always
get ahead of it.
And then you've got to also bethe marketing manager, the

(44:59):
social media manager, thebookkeeper, the accountant.
You've got to wear all thoseroles in a in a sole trader type
of business.
But so, yeah, I'm like I forgot, I've forgotten.
Now, whatever the question was,I think I addressed it.
No, that's perfect.
Oh, I love it.
I just think it's, yeah, justreally interesting how the
industry has changed.

(45:20):
You know, what would you say?
What do you think your it'schanged like?
What do you think is your?
I think you're right.
The education piece, you know,and as you said it right up the
at the top, it was, um, really,really hard to get into the
interior design courses.
There was only a small handful.
Yeah, there's more of them nowtoo, right At different levels.

(45:40):
So many more, and they're allprivate.
Well, not all of them.
A lot of them are privately run.
So it just means that anyonecan study an interior design
course if you want to.
So it's a lot more interiordesigners coming into the
industry.
Yeah, um, and you know, peoplehave different reasons for
studying as well.
Not everybody is going to starttheir own business, but that's

(46:03):
been a huge big difference.
I think.
A lot more kind of hobbies,hobby designers yeah, sounds
like a bit of a book down.
But what I mean is, I think,people that think they can kind
of just dabble in it, and Idon't think you can.
Well, I mean, if you have, ifyou want to, if you have the
capital to make it a hobby,because it will cost you a lot
of money to do that, yes, and itwill cost you.

(46:23):
You're not.
You're not in it because youhave to pay bills.
That's the difference, right?
Yeah, and you know that'sthat's okay.
You might be doing it for yourown home or you might be doing
it you.
You might do the qualificationand realize not for me, not what
I thought it would be.
I thought I'd be out doingthings, but I'm behind my
computer the whole time.
That's probably the bigdifference too is that there are

(46:45):
a lot of people now who maybedo their own home, maybe they
use even if they've usedinterior designer.
They've realized, oh, Iactually really like doing this
and there's it's much easier forthem to find a way into the
industry because there are morecourses open to them that are
privately run.
So you don't have to have, youknow, your Terrier, atar,
whatever you know.
You don't have to do that toget in.

(47:07):
You just need to be able to payfor it, right?
So there's a lot more entrylevels into the design world for
people who go oh, I kind ofenjoy doing that, and they're
not necessarily needing a job,but they have the funds to do it
.
So you've got a lot more ofthat, right?
Yeah, I think you know, if youare looking at studying interior

(47:28):
design, I think that peopleshould do a lot more homework
before they sign up to a course.
And where do you want to work?
All those kind of things.
But, yeah, that's, that'schanged a lot.
And also, you know, obviously,as you said, social media, but
just access to imagery.
Yeah, that's true, as you said,the magazines it was coveted.
Magazines were coveted.

(47:49):
Now we know so much more aboutdesign designers.
We know, just, we see so muchimagery across our eyeballs
every day.
It's probably too much.
I sometimes also I think,actually this is a good idea.
Maybe we should do this.
I feel like there needs to besocial media just for design,

(48:10):
because I get distracted bypuppies and cats and memes about
drinking wine and I don't know,so I feel like that's usually
why I'm there.
Okay, I'm mostly aboutInstagram is for inspiration,
but half the time I'm scrollingaway and politics.
You know, I accidentally wentinto a deep dive and now my

(48:31):
algorithm's just feeding me allthe politics.
It's too heavy and I'm like Ineed to do a refresh sometimes
and just like go find theaccounts that I love, that I
basically never see, because therest of the stuff kind of comes
into my feed.
It'd be good.
I guess maybe that's why peoplehave personal accounts, just
having this realization.

(48:51):
Maybe you do, yeah, kind ofstick to the businessy stuff and
then have the personal onewhere you do all the memes and
the puppies, lots of puppies.
They know you like puppies andcows.
You know those beautiful cows,the house cows.
They've got cows now.
Oh well, you know what Indy waswatching on YouTube?
Somebody cleaning cow feet.
Oh, nice, cow hooves.
Oh, actually that's a thing.

(49:13):
One of my friends went down avery big rabbit hole of watching
like yeah, I think it was morehorses like scooping the stuff
and cleaning up.
Yeah, what are you watching?
The stuff we have access to,it's insane.
Yeah, I think we've digressed abit.
Yeah, sorry, no, that's okay.
Okay.
So what about some personal andfun things?

(49:34):
Do you have a dream client,dead or alive.
I just thought about thisrecently too.
I mean, before we spoke, wementioned someone, do we?
We have more than one?
Yeah, your friend Thelma, ahWell, I was thinking about music
.
I was like, okay, music, orsaying Thelma Plummer, who I met
once and now I call her my bestfriend.
Sorry, sorry, th family, hopeyou're not listening, I'm your

(49:58):
stalker.
No, she's just beautiful, but Ilove her music and, I don't
know, have a bit of a fangirlfor her.
And another friend in theindustry knew her and we ran
into her and they introduced meand I was like beside myself,
she's adorable, I just love her.
Anyway, love her.

(50:18):
Thelma, you need to buy a houseor do some renovations or need
some styling.
I will be your designer.
I will probably do it for free,let's face it.
So, putting it out there,roughing free interior design,
but only for one person, um, butAlva the match.
So that's living dead.
David Bowie oh, imagine, imagine.
He's one of my absolutefavorite people and even just
having conversations with himwould be so great, right, and he

(50:40):
has amazing taste but takesrisks like imagine what you
could create.
Obviously has budget or didhave budget.
Oh, that is a great client.
Yeah, he's probably, and also Ijust thought you know he's a.
He's kind of like he's just anicon, right, he's so creative,
the different evolutions ofhimself.
He's one of the most creativesouls and just a beautiful soul

(51:02):
and a philosopher and has agreat attitude.
Yeah, love him.
Original, fearless, so ahead ofhis time.
Yeah, that's a great client.
So, your future and legacy howdo you want people to feel when
they walk into one of yourspaces?
Oh, happy, interested, curious.

(51:23):
Oh, I want immediate, oh, likejoy.
But then I want curiosity,because that's probably one of
my favorite things is beingcurious and discovering things
and learning stuff.
So I want someone to go like,oh, hang on.
Oh, what's behind this door?
What did she do here?
Oh, my God, what a great idea.
Oh, I can't believe she putthose colors together.
Yes, I do get that sense.

(51:44):
When I look at your work youknow, even your jewel-like
styling work it's like, oh, Ilove that.
Next to that, I've never seenthat before.
Where did she get that from?
You know, it's pretty cool.
Oh, that's good.
That's, yeah, that's definitely.
Curiosity is, I think, whatevery human should have to live
a good life.
That's a great quote.
I love that.
I think curious people have waymore empathy, they love harder,

(52:07):
they're better friends, becausethey'll ask you about yourself.
They want to know about theworld.
Yeah, I think it's like one ofthe best traits to have.
I like being curious as well.
Yeah, what's the next big dreamor goal you're chasing?
I'm curious.
It is all the small stuff atthe moment, the business stuff,

(52:27):
because, um, like I said, Ihaven't done a lot of that and I
would like to build a brand abit more around myself because I
think that is a bit of a legacything.
Like you, you can just kind oflike trudge along and do what
you want to do, but if you wantto have the projects you want
and start to take control ofyour career, you've got to kind
of create a bit of a narrativeand have some goals around that.
So for me at the moment, it'slike you know, I keep hitting

(52:50):
roadblocks or the adminroadblocks, so I will get past
them.
Like the, the website I'mtrying to switch over to a
website and it's just thatannoying stuff, so annoying when
you have that big dream, yeah,yeah.
So it's like you know, gettingmyself to a point where I have
the website and it's great andit's running and the social
media is doing what it'ssupposed to be doing.
And I've got to do a lot morekind of like face to camera

(53:12):
stuff, because I enjoy doingthat and I'm're so good at it
and I'm kind of good at it.
You are and I mean, come on,you have the best hair in the
biz.
Well, that's the legacy.
It's just the hair, but so itis a lot of those small things.
And then, honestly, it'stravelling more.
I want to do more tours with you.
Let's do it.

(53:33):
Yeah, you know we are makingLondon happen next year.
You know my big one is Mexicothat's the next one on the list
and then potentially Copenhagen,which is one of your loves.
So I want to do more of that.
I really enjoy well, obviously,I enjoy your company, otherwise
I wouldn't be here but, um, Ienjoy us together on those tours

(53:54):
and I love the people thatwe've met and the environment.
I think, like I really thrive inthat space and I think we do a
really good job.
To be honest, everyone has agood time.
To be honest, we do it ispretty special.
I think it is pretty special.
So I want to do more of that.
Yeah, yeah, and I think it'snice just to take that minute
just to go.
You know, I was talking to mymom and my sister about it the

(54:14):
other day and it's like, oh god,like that's, that's my work,
how have we?
Yeah, isn't it funny how youhave those little moments.
Yeah, I'm exactly what you mean.
To make that a make that athing?
Yes, yeah, and we're doing whatwe love, right?
Yeah, that is pretty cool.
So I guess that that the smallthings, but I guess if I was

(54:35):
going to do big dream stuff,that's all.
I have things that I think areimmediately achievable.
I have no doubt that that'llall happen.
There's probably two things.
One would be a collaborationwith a brand and creating a
range of furniture, homewares,that sort of thing.
I'd really like to do that, um.
And the second would be to ownmy own space and be able to

(54:57):
properly design and do all ofthat, which I think is probably
most designers' goal.
But I've only really been ableto do it a couple of times and
when I was quite young anddidn't have any money and didn't
really know what I was doing.
Do you know?
I built a house.
I would have been early 20s.
Wow, I built like amons home orsomething.
It was like, you know, specbuild because, do you remember,

(55:19):
they brought out the um firsthomeowners, yeah, when they
first did that.
So you could literally have nodeposit, yeah, and, and her
house.
But you had to live in pretty,you had to live in it for a year
, where people live yeah, butyou also had to live in like far
away places.
So, yeah, and I grew up up inthe, I would say, country,
macedon Ranges.
So I was like I can do this,fine.

(55:41):
So I built a house and becauseI'm who I am, I drove them crazy
because it's like standard specbuild.
And then I'm like, no, I want todo polished concrete, but we're
going to come and polish it.
So when the slab was laid, wewent and marked out all the
spaces and polished all theconcrete ourselves, like, went
out there and polished it alland um, but then they, they

(56:02):
painted, and they you know, theysprayed the walls, this brand
new house, and didn't cover upany of our polished concrete.
So I spent a lot of time outscraping paint and trying to get
paint off my polished concreteforms.
What idiots.
Oh my God, surely they wouldhave noticed.
Oh, that's so upsetting.
I was so mad because they knewand they just didn't care

(56:23):
Because it's just, it was I was.
I was very annoying because Ikept trying to do things that
were obviously outside of.
I'm very kind of a creativethinker of, like, how do I make
this happen even though I can'tafford it or whatever it is.
So I drove them crazy because Iwas just not just being like
the client that just went, oh,this is nice and this is pretty
and this is what I paid for.
I was always like, well, if wedid it like this, and then

(56:43):
they'd be like, well, that's notwhat we do.
I'm like, yeah, but you coulddo it.
So that, yeah, I wouldn't everdo, probably, a spec build again
unless I had a really greatcollaboration happening.
Maybe that's what I need do, doa great collaboration with a
spec builder and have my ownrange of homes and I'll just
build one of those.
Just have a range of homes.
I love that, though I mean youdoing a range of homes is

(57:06):
actually I can see that youdoing a furniture line, that's a
no-brainer, and having your ownspace to design and to live in,
that's got to happen.
I love that Achievable.
Yeah, we'd put them into theuniverse.
And yeah, I'm not asking to goto the moon or anything.
I don't want to go there.
I don't think they've got anynice interiors or any good

(57:26):
furniture there I think.
So it would be kind ofinteresting to design a space
station.
That would be a big challenge.
I'm reading a book calledatmosphere about that at the
moment.
So good, she's an astronaut.
Yeah, all right, so I think wemight wrap that up.
That was such a fun chat.
I can't believe we only justthought of doing that.
I know, well, you thought of it, I didn't think of it.

(57:48):
Well, I'll have my turn next.
Yes, um, but yeah, thank youfor listening.
And yeah, thanks everyone.
Thanks Listening to me again.
That was fun, brie, thank you.
See you later.
Bye.
We've got the utmost respectfor the Wurundjeri people of the
Kulin Nation.
They're the OG custodians ofthis unceded land and its waters

(58:10):
, where we set up shop, createand call home and come to you.
From this podcast today, a bigshout out to all of the amazing
elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the
present and the emerging leaderswho will carry the torch into
the future.
We're just lucky to be on thisjourney together.